Detroit Tiger, WHAT??!!!

[weezie]

Can I get a little love for my Tiger!!
I mean there's something going on up in The D.
16 pages for the Brave but I'm happy with a few crumbs off the baseball banquet table.

"We're all behind our baseball team....Go Get'em Tigers!!"

[cspan37421]

Love my Tigers. Well, I have to hold my nose at Cabrera, who has some real issues, but perhaps not giving up on him is the right thing. Of course they need him badly, too, so let's not brand them humanitarians.

Without Verlander they're a .500 team. Not even, actually.

I hate to say it but I think even if they make the playoffs - and it looks like they will - they're going nowhere after that. They'll be the worst of the playoff teams in the AL by a MILE. Just look at their RS-RA differential: +11 over 139 games. Boston is +157 and they're a wildcard team now. Even the Rays are +61.

[weezie]

I hate to say it but I think even if they make the playoffs - and it looks like they will - they're going nowhere after that.

Yeah, spoken like a tried and true Tiger fan. I've wanted to throttle just about each and every one of them at some point during this season...and most seasons, come to think of it.

[Olympic Fan]

Well, I suspect the Tigers will make the playoffs -- the key is to clinch early enough that they don't have to use Verlander on the last weekend to make the playoffs.

In the playoffs, Detroit will meet either Boston or New York. It's impossible to tell which of those two will be the wild card and which will be the East winner (they are seperated by half a game), but since they can't meet in the first round one will play Detroit and one will play Texas. The interesting thing is the race between Detroit and Texas for the best overall record (other than New York/Boston). Right now, Texas leads by a game in the loss column. That's important because the one with the best record gets the wild card team with homefield advantage. The one that finishes with the third-best division winning record gets the East winner and will have the homefield disadvantage.

Detroit starts the playoff with one great addvantage -- the Tigers have the best starting pitcher in baseball (this year at least). That's a pretty big edge in game one of any series ...

That said, I still think the Tigers are underdogs in a playoff with either the Yanks or the Red Sox, but in a short series, anything is possible ... especially with Verlander lined up to start twice.

[Olympic Fan]

Sorry to follow my own post, but after leaving this thread, I stumbled across this article on ESPN:

http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/15808/a-three-team-trade-that-paid-three-ways

Points out that the off-season deal that Detroit-New York-Arizona worked after the 2009 season has paid big dividends for all three teams -- all three of which are headed for the playoffs.

The Tigers gave up Granderson, who is having an MVP year with the Yankees, and Edwin Jackson (a bust), but got a fine young CFer in Austin Jackson (who is one of the big reasons Paul Hewitt is no longer the Georgia Tech basketball coach) and several good young arms -- Phil Coke, Max Scherzer (their No. 2 starter) and Daniel Schlereth.

The Diamondbacks gave up Scherzer and Schlereth, but got Ian Kennedy, having a Cy Young type season (he leads the NL in wins), and Jackson, who they flipped for Daniel Hudson (14-5).

The Yankees gave up Jackson, Coke and Kennedy and while I'm sure they'd like to have Kennedy back, they got more than they bargined for with Granderson.

All-in-all, I pretty good three-team trade.

[blazindw]

I wouldn't start counting my Tigers out of a playoff series with NY or Boston just yet. First, let's make the playoffs. We're not in until we're in (see: 2009). Once we're in, I recall 2006 when the entire world outside of Detroit wrote off the Tigers against the Yankees. We crushed them in 4 games on our way to the pennant and the World Series.

With Verlander on our side, we ALWAYS have a chance. They'll set it up where he can pitch 2 games in the ALDS and 3 games in each series after that. The man is not only the best pitcher in baseball, he's also a workhorse who wants the ball. Gotta love JV35!

[blazindw]

The Tigs brought that wood tonight!! Complete bombardment of the ChiSox, completing the sweep. Looking good, Billy Ray!!

[weezie]

The Tigs brought that wood tonight!! Complete bombardment of the ChiSox, completing the sweep. Looking good, Billy Ray!!

Holy smokes, you've got that right!
The announcers revealed that the chisox were seriously considering putting Dunn in as a relief pitcher?!
Man the lifeboats...

[tommy]

I hate to say it but I think even if they make the playoffs - and it looks like they will - they're going nowhere after that.

Hopefully Boston and New York are thinking the same way. We'll have em just where we want 'em.

While Verlander obviously has been lights out all year, it's not just him. Have you seen what this guy Fister has done since coming over from Seattle and actually getting some run support? He's been great. A couple of the other starters have been good too, and with Valverde in the pen, the pitching is really good. Who's pitching staff would you take right now, top to bottom -- Detroit's or New York's?

And with Martinez having an excellent year at the plate and Cabrera his usual stellar year, along with a lot of other guys around them playing solid baseball, this is not a team to be ignored. They are driving towards the playoffs with a lot of momentum, a very hot #1 starter and a lights out closer.

[theAlaskanBear]

I wouldn't start counting my Tigers out of a playoff series with NY or Boston just yet. First, let's make the playoffs. We're not in until we're in (see: 2009). Once we're in, I recall 2006 when the entire world outside of Detroit wrote off the Tigers against the Yankees. We crushed them in 4 games on our way to the pennant and the World Series.

With Verlander on our side, we ALWAYS have a chance. They'll set it up where he can pitch 2 games in the ALDS and 3 games in each series after that. The man is not only the best pitcher in baseball, he's also a workhorse who wants the ball. Gotta love JV35!

Ahh yes, 2006, when you rode a ball-tarring Kenny Rogers and error-prone Verlander to your doom against my Cardinals. Hope you ahve been working on your fielding.

[weezie]

Ahh yes, 2006, when you rode a ball-tarring Kenny Rogers and error-prone Verlander to your doom against my Cardinals. Hope you ahve been working on your fielding.

Blazin'? He's all yours........

[blazindw]

Blazin'? He's all yours........

Why thank you weezie...I'll take this one...


Ahh yes, 2006, when you rode a ball-tarring Kenny Rogers and error-prone Verlander to your doom against my Cardinals. Hope you ahve been working on your fielding.

Was there any conviction of cheating? Nope. When Kenny Rogers wiped the substance off his hand, what did he do? Pitch 7 more scoreless innings. Even LaRussa said it was no problem, so dunno what you're trying to say with that one.

Sure, our pitchers had some problems throwing it to first base. While you're dissing Verlander, keep in mind he was a rookie that season that won 17 games and helped carry us to the pennant and the World Series. And, he's been bo-beasting the major leagues ever since, including this year where he's a shoo-in for Cy Young and getting some mention for MVP. I'll take Verlander over any player in baseball (yes, player). And, I have a feeling that one of these years, Verlander will get the WS ring he seeks.

Now, please enjoy the final 21 games of the Cardinals' season. The good thing about being eliminated early is that they can make their tee times and reserve their fishing charters before most of the major leagues. :)

[theAlaskanBear]

Why thank you weezie...I'll take this one...



Was there any conviction of cheating? Nope. When Kenny Rogers wiped the substance off his hand, what did he do? Pitch 7 more scoreless innings. Even LaRussa said it was no problem, so dunno what you're trying to say with that one.

Sure, our pitchers had some problems throwing it to first base. While you're dissing Verlander, keep in mind he was a rookie that season that won 17 games and helped carry us to the pennant and the World Series. And, he's been bo-beasting the major leagues ever since, including this year where he's a shoo-in for Cy Young and getting some mention for MVP. I'll take Verlander over any player in baseball (yes, player). And, I have a feeling that one of these years, Verlander will get the WS ring he seeks.

Now, please enjoy the final 21 games of the Cardinals' season. The good thing about being eliminated early is that they can make their tee times and reserve their fishing charters before most of the major leagues. :)

No conviction, but the ESPN montage of each postseason Rogers game with the gunk on his hat and in his hand was pretty convincing. LaRussa didnt make a big deal about it because A) they caught it before it really impacted the game, and B) Jim Leyland is his BFF (no, really, I mean it).

I have nothing against the Tigers, I actually like them and pull for them in the AL central...just having a little bit of fun at your expense. I will never forget that World Series. Sophomore year in college, watching in the dorm with my friends and popping the champagne afterwards...

Yeah the Cardinals are dead in the water this year, thanks to a scorching hot Brew Crew. Still we were missing our CY Young contender ace Wainwright (who has better career numbers than Verlander) who has been injured all year -- you throw his 20 wins vs a replacement pitcher, and instead of 10 games out we are right in the mix.

[tommy]

Yeah the Cardinals are dead in the water this year, thanks to a scorching hot Brew Crew. Still we were missing our CY Young contender ace Wainwright (who has better career numbers than Verlander) . . .

You so sure about that? In one more year of MLB action (this year), Verlander has 38 more wins than does Wainwright. He has more career complete games, more shutouts, more innings pitched per year, a better career WHIP, less hits per 9 innings, more strikeouts per 9, more strikeouts, and a better K/BB ratio. They're very close in win % and HR's per 9 and Wainwright has better numbers in a few categories too. One could certainly make the case that Verlander's numbers are better than Wainwright's, but at worst, they appear to be pretty even by the numbers.

[weezie]

In one more year of MLB action (this year), Verlander has 38 more wins than does Wainwright. He has more career complete games, more shutouts, more innings pitched per year, a better career WHIP, less hits per 9 innings, more strikeouts per 9, more strikeouts, and a better K/BB ratio.

Don't forget that whole" having to pitch to some pretty fierce DHs and not getting the free pass when the opposing NL pitcher ambles to the plate" thing.

Waiting for it......:cool:

[Doug.I.Am]

Don't forget that whole" having to pitch to some pretty fierce DHs and not getting the free pass when the opposing NL pitcher ambles to the plate" thing.

Waiting for it......:cool:

Weez - you're smarter than the average bear and wise beyond your years. The NL is a pitchers paradise. Point for Weezie.

[theAlaskanBear]

You so sure about that? In one more year of MLB action (this year), Verlander has 38 more wins than does Wainwright. He has more career complete games, more shutouts, more innings pitched per year, a better career WHIP, less hits per 9 innings, more strikeouts per 9, more strikeouts, and a better K/BB ratio. They're very close in win % and HR's per 9 and Wainwright has better numbers in a few categories too. One could certainly make the case that Verlander's numbers are better than Wainwright's, but at worst, they appear to be pretty even by the numbers.

Verlander is definitely a work horse, and his strikeout numbers are unreal, but Wainwright has been a better pitcher. Your use of aggregate wins shows no understanding of the situation, because Adams first year in the majors he was a reliever our playoffs/world series winning CLOSER. So when you throw out 38 more wins in two more seasons of starting thats negligible, and wins are a terrible stat anyway because they are a function of the teams offense.

This is Verlanders best year, and he is about even with Wainwright last year. Wainwright beats him on ERA+ 4 of 5 years. So while Verlander is right now as good as Wainwright, over the course of his career Wainwright has been the better pitcher. Not detracting from Verlander at all -- just pointing out that my Cardinals are not contending for a reason -- just imagine the Tigers without Verlander.

If you really want to compare AL vs NL pitching, bring me your division opponents runs scored. You guys arent playing the Yankees and RedSox everyday, not every team is in the AL East.

[Doug.I.Am]

If you really want to compare AL vs NL pitching, bring me your division opponents runs scored. You guys arent playing the Yankees and RedSox everyday, not every team is in the AL East.

Over the last 3 seasons against AL teams, Wainright's ERA is right around 4.50 and didn't face the Yankees or Red Sox. It's only 7 starts so not a big sample but I don't see a sub 3 ERA if he pitched full time in the AL. I agree, Wainright is one helluva pitcher and I'd take either one! :)

[cspan37421]

Don't mistake my wishes - I hope to be proven wrong on my prediction. Would love to see Leyland win one with Detroit for a change!

Porcello has had a couple good outings of late, and this Fister guy is really coming on strong down the stretch. So yeah, they have a chance, but you look at the body of work and it looks to me like every other AL playoff team is better. (NL too, but barely).

Granted, they are coming on strong of late. But then again, there's Brad Penny, who, well, not so much.

[weezie]

Holy smokes! The Tigs just keep on coming. Down three in the ninth, tie it up and win in the 10th?!

It's hard to stay calm and reasoned during a run like this!

[blazindw]

I'ma go ahead and take credit for this victory. I popped on ESPN Gamecast at the end of the 8th inning, while I was on a conference call for Duke DC. Had to mute the call a few times to shout at my screen as it told me that Rayburn homered and then AVILA! Both pinch-hit homers too! As soon as that happened, I knew we were going to win, and sure enough, kept the Gamecast on to see us get out of the jam in the 9th, take the lead in the 10th and then Valverde time.

You're right weezie, it's hard to maintain a straight face through all of this. Magic number, by my recollection, is down to 3 and could soon be two since the Indians are getting bootstomped right now. We could have this thing wrapped up by the weekend! *knock on wood*

And, the most important part of this: we just passed Boston by a half game for the 2nd best record in the AL. Still 5 games behind the Yankees for the best record, but we keep this up, we will have homefield advantage!

[Jim3k]

OK, Weezie. Calm down. Twelve in a row is great, particularly in coming from behind in 10 innings yesterday. Kudos to them.

But they have a ways to go to match the A's 2002 20-game win streak. And while those A's were much better than this year's edition, today's short-handed crew, playing well below .500 and all, is nevertheless doing a fair job of spoiling others' fun.

Anyway, I have tix for Sunday to watch Verlander do his thing to the A's. His opposite number, Guillermo Moscoso (8-8) has been a pleasant arrival as the original staff bunched up on the DL, but he's not a likely choice against Verlander. Plus, the A's are currently offering playing time to some late-season callups. (Furthermore, Ryan Sweeney, the backup CF, pulled a muscle today in his quad, and may be out, too. Maybe Crisp will be back, but I doubt it.) Still, it would not surprise me to see them snap the Tigs' win streak -- perhaps taking two of four. Even if they do, it won't slow the Tigs down much, if at all. I see Detroit as the best in the AL, even if some Eastern Conference teams have slightly better records.

I can't root for them while they're here, but I've got no problem with them overall. They are due. If you want, I'll file a first hand report.

[weezie]

OK, Weezie. Calm down. Twelve in a row is great, particularly in coming from behind in 10 innings yesterday.


Ok Jim, I'll try. Keep me tamped down, good. Plenty of baseball left to play.

Lucky you with tix to "The Justin Verlander Show".

What's the favorite snack at your stadium? What kind of beer do they serve?
I wish I was going with you! :cool:

[cspan37421]

Looks more promising for me to be proven wrong - yesss! Hope they can play like this in the post season (I think their magic # is something like 1).

[weezie]

All righty then!!

American League Central Division winners be us! :cool:

[blazindw]

All righty then!!

American League Central Division winners be us! :cool:

First team in the AL in the playoffs...love it!! And, with the Yankees loss, only 4 back of the best record in the AL and homefield advantage in the playoffs!

[Jim3k]

Ok Jim, I'll try. Keep me tamped down, good. Plenty of baseball left to play.

Lucky you with tix to "The Justin Verlander Show".

What's the favorite snack at your stadium? What kind of beer do they serve?
I wish I was going with you! :cool:

OK, Weezie, here's my report on the game. As you know, Verlander was the winner, with an 8 inning shutout, allowing only 3 hits. When he went out at the end of the 8th, the Tigs had a 2-0 lead, but the A's were matching up well. Two pitchers, Moscoso and Fuentes, had allowed only one hit--but it was a biggie--Austin Jackson's solo HR in the 6th. Moscoso had thrown 110 pitches over 6 innings, so he was done. Verlander threw 116 in his 8 innings. Verlander was clearly the more efficient pitcher, in terms of outs per pitch. Even so, I kept thinking that the A's were about to break through. Didn't happen. The Tigers' last two runs came against the A's bullpen.

One thing bugs me about the game. I thought the A's lineup left some good hitting (to the extent the A's have any) on the bench. Their DH today was Chris Carter, a ne'er-do-well AAA player. He's been up to the big leagues at least three times, maybe four, and has demonstrated that he can't hit major league pitching even as he tears up the Coast League. He was three automatic strikeouts for Verlander, today, taking his bat off his shoulder maybe once in 3 ABs. Starting SS Cliff Pennington didn't make it to the field either, nor did Hideki Matsui.

As for my report on Verlander, I must say that I'm not sure why he is so dominating. He did throw one 98 mph fastball, but mostly was in the 92 range. He mixes his pitches and speeds well. His strikes v. balls ratio, 66-50, turned out to be more impressive than I had thought, for in the early innings, he had thrown more balls than strikes. He got stronger as the game went on. He did walk three. I do think patience would be a weapon against him. In contrast, Moscoso, far from a star, threw 70 strikes v. 40 balls and walked two. He had a no-hitter going until Jackson's homerun, the only hit he allowed. I can't help but wonder whether the game would have had a different outcome had Carter not been such a cipher.

But the final proof is the pudding. Verlander won, going away. He shut the A's out with 3 hits over 8, getting 6 SOs in the process (3 on Carter). He looked good doing it.

However, looking at the four game series, I can say my guess was borne out--the A's won two, while the Tigs won 2. Detroit's first win gave them the division championship and they should be congratulated. Now they have to keep it up.

[weezie]

As for my report on Verlander, I must say that I'm not sure why he is so dominating. He did throw one 98 mph fastball, but mostly was in the 92 range. He mixes his pitches and speeds well. His strikes v. balls ratio, 66-50, turned out to be more impressive than I had thought.....He got stronger as the game went on....
..Verlander won, going away. He shut the A's out with 3 hits over 8, getting 6 SOs in the process...He looked good doing it.


OK, thanks! From the tv angle, the ump was all over the place with the strike zone, as you probably noticed by the jawboning coming from JV and Leyland on the field.
JV's sinker hook is a nasty, sweet piece of work. Who was the A player who had his batting helmet come off as he drove himself into a corkscrew? That was funny.
Lately, JV has had some moments of distraction, true. Chalk it up to a long season and the pressure of being the best and the loud MVP/Cy Young chatter that accompanies him across the league. I predict he'll be very well focused once the playoffs begin.

But, you forgot to tell me what kind of snacks are popular in Oakland and what kind of beer they serve..come now dear Jim3K!

[Jim3k]

OK, thanks! From the tv angle, the ump was all over the place with the strike zone, as you probably noticed by the jawboning coming from JV and Leyland on the field.
JV's sinker hook is a nasty, sweet piece of work.

Looks more like a change-up to me. It's about 76 mph. Used properly and in a good location. I think his fastball has a lot movement, so it's difficult to pick up.



Who was the A player who had his batting helmet come off as he drove himself into a corkscrew? That was funny.

I don't remember seeing that. Neither does Carol. It's common enough that all teams have it happen. Hard swing and miss or just being badly fooled. I've learned that major league hitters who are badly fooled on one pitch usually do fine in the long run. Laugh at him for the moment; fear him the next. That's baseball.



But, you forgot to tell me what kind of snacks are popular in Oakland and what kind of beer they serve..come now dear Jim3K!

Ha. We probably can't answer for popularity as we bring our own sandwiches. They do offer BBQ if you get there early enough. I see a lot of people having nachos w/ jalapenos. I like the Polish dogs, myself. Dibs ice cream is fairly popular. Better food is available on the top level in the Westside Club restaurant.

Beer is $9 a cup, so we eschew it. The A's allow fans to bring in small coolers, so we generally bring ice and a quart of Trader Joe sparkling mineral water w/ lime. Keeps us fresh in the sun. I hesitate to drink beer at the Coliseum, not only due to the price and the hassle (see next graf), but due to the 25 mile drive home afterwards on I-880 and CA 24, both majorly busy and cop-heavy freeways.

The Coliseum offers several brands--Budweiser being the big one, but also three or four micro-brewery options. Unlike other stadiums, they do not hawk beer in the stands, so getting it is a hassle exacerbated by long lines. You must go up to the main, interior walkway to the vendors' stations. I think that is required by the liquor control people, probably to enforce the age 21 rule. (The last time I tried to bring a tray of beer cups to my seat was last year in the new Nationals Stadium in DC. I managed to spill enough walking down the steps to soak the cheap paper tray so badly it collapsed. Beer all over the stairway. Klutzy looking old fart with a sheepish mad on trying to act like nothing had happened...:o Good thing I was from out of town and no one but my son knew me. What a waste!)

[weezie]

...The last time I tried to bring a tray of beer cups to my seat was last year in the new Nationals Stadium in DC. I managed to spill enough walking down the steps to soak the cheap paper tray so badly it collapsed. Beer all over the stairway....

Oh dear, that is sad! :(

[cspan37421]

Too late to call someone up?

[weezie]

Ugh....
Leyland just seems to get these massive man crushes on certain players.
It looks like Brad doesn't even want to be out there anyway!

[cspan37421]

Sure looks like that if Boston somehow manages to make the playoffs (and at this point, I don't think they will), they look like the team that is going nowhere, because their pitching has totally stunk up the joint lately, and the Yankees are hardly interested in helping them out by beating the Rays.

Detroit is looking good and Fister is a big part of that. Amazing how bad his record was in Seattle relative to his quite respectable ERA. He must have had no run support there.