FB: Richmond 23, Duke 21

[watzone]

The Blue Devils seem confident and I hope that translates well this Saturday in the home opener against Richmond in Wally Wade Stadium, 7:00 kickoff. Here is an interview with Duke QB Brandon Connette who has worked on his passing skills in the off season. http://bluedevilnation.net/2011/08/brandon-connette-will-have-an-expanded-role-in-2011/

[loran16]

The Blue Devils seem confident and I hope that translates well this Saturday in the home opener against Richmond in Wally Wade Stadium, 7:00 kickoff. Here is an interview with Duke QB Brandon Connette who has worked on his passing skills in the off season. http://bluedevilnation.net/2011/08/brandon-connette-will-have-an-expanded-role-in-2011/

The season has truly begun now that the first thread has been posted. Lets go DUKE! (No I've got nothing more right now - I need to see the team). Will the game be on ESPN3?

[Duke of Nashville]

YES! It's almost game day! I cannot wait to watch the game! So exciting! Squash the spiders! Go Duke!

Predictions:

Great game for Sean 22-25 250+ Pass Yards 3 TD 1 Rushing


Two forced turnovers


10 Points off turnovers


150 rushing yards


Final Score 41-20 Duke

[Bob Green]

Will the game be on ESPN3?

Yes, the Richmond game is being carried by ESPN3.

[CameronBlue]

Duke has not started that last 2 seasons well. The new found depth on the O-line helps sustain the Duke offense late in the game and grind out a 38-33 victory over the 'Nids. Renfree passes for 373 yards, 3 TDs.

[Devilsfan]

D-1 teams are not suppose to lose to lower division teams. Now that coach has had a few years to start the FB programs development this game should merely be a confidence builder to get ready to play the rest of the schedule.

[Bob Green]

Richmond Game notes:

https://www.nmnathletics.com//pdf8/782044.pdf?ATCLID=205253471&SPSID=22666&SPID=1843&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=4200

The depth chart is on page 11.

[devildeac]

From today's Raleigh N&O:

http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/08/30/1446485/tudor-start-is-key-for-duke.html


Killer Vs

Heh-heh.

I swear I heard that last year.

[devildeac]

And from that old geezer and long time Duke hater:

http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/08/30/1446485or-start-is-key-for-duke.html/tud

Can't argue with much there. Pretty honest stuff.

[Bob Green]

Killer Vs

Heh-heh.

I swear I heard that last year.

Wow. That article contains some strong praise for Varner and Vernon from the Navy Defensive Coordinator:


"You better be ready to find them, because they can hurt you," Navy defensive coordinator Buddy Green said. Duke "does a good job of spreading the ball around. Either going vertical or catching the ball quick, they put a lot of pressure on your corners."

Green credits Duke's staff for the tandem's route-running ability. Green said Duke's pair rarely foreshadow their intentions coming out of breaks and maintain balance in their body position.

"They are precise," Green said. "They've got speed, and they're physical. They're tough guys. They make plays. They're the kind of guys you want on your team. The kind of guys you don't want to try and defend."

Football season has arrived and I am excited to follow the team for another year. It is great to read how hard both Varner and Vernon are willing to work every play to be their best. Add in sophomore Brandon Braxton at the 3rd wide receiver position and senior Cooper Helfet at tight end, and quarterback Sean Renfree has a plethora of options when he drops back to pass behind an improved offensive line.

p.s. I had a problem with the links you provided but this one works:

http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/08/30/1446476/defenses-can-expect-attack-of.html

[devildeac]

And from that old geezer and long time Duke hater:

http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/08/30/1446485or-start-is-key-for-duke.html/tud

Can't argue with much there. Pretty honest stuff.

I think this is the correct link for this article:

http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/08/30/1446485/tudor-start-is-key-for-duke.html

Don't know how/why 'twas not correct the 1st time.

[devildeac]

From today's Raleigh N&O:

http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/08/30/1446485/tudor-start-is-key-for-duke.html


Killer Vs

Heh-heh.

I swear I heard that last year.

This should be the proper one for the Killer Vs article:

http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/08/30/1446476/defenses-can-expect-attack-of.html

Apologies for both errors. Thanks to Bob for bringing to my attention and correcting:o.

[watzone]

One thing the Duke defense did not create last season were turnovers. Ross Cockrell speaks to that and the Richmond game - http://bluedevilnation.net/2011/08/bdn-chats-with-ross-cockrell-pre-richmond-game/

[PumpkinFunk]

Not necessarily football-related, but game-related:

Word from my friends (and emails from Jeff, the director) have informed me that DUMB has once again gotten a very strong class of freshmen and had a highly successful band camp. Unlike the past few years, there are quite a few brass players (trombones, trumpets, sousaphones, etc.) which should help with the low volume problem we've had in the past from the predominance of woodwinds, specifically clarinets (of which I was one, but still...). Expect them to be louder and sounding great, per usual, and have a great halftime show all season long.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Not necessarily football-related, but game-related:

Word from my friends (and emails from Jeff, the director) have informed me that DUMB has once again gotten a very strong class of freshmen and had a highly successful band camp. Unlike the past few years, there are quite a few brass players (trombones, trumpets, sousaphones, etc.) which should help with the low volume problem we've had in the past from the predominance of woodwinds, specifically clarinets (of which I was one, but still...). Expect them to be louder and sounding great, per usual, and have a great halftime show all season long.
PUMP UP THE BRASS! Can't wait to see y'all march past us at the Devil Walk on Saturday afternoon and then start playing in front of Cameron and Card! Tick tock, go clock!
http://www.crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/happy/cheerleaderkid.gif http://www.crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/happy/cheerleadersmileygirl.gif http://www.crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/happy/cheerleadersmileyguy.gif http://www.crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/happy/cheerleaderkid.gif

[AtlBluRew]

GO DUKE! On Saturday morning, the Duke banner goes up on the front of the house. I'm looking forward to a good season and seeing our team's hard work pay off. I think I'll be making the trip to FIU as well. GO DUKE!

[OZZIE4DUKE]

GO DUKE! On Saturday morning, the Duke banner goes up on the front of the house. I'm looking forward to a good season and seeing our team's hard work pay off. I think I'll be making the trip to FIU as well. GO DUKE!
And why aren't the banners up ALL the time? :eek:

[WakeDevil]

Perhaps one day we can get rid of the fake stat, all too prevalent in both football and basketball, known as points off turnovers.

[OldPhiKap]

Perhaps one day we can get rid of the fake stat, all too prevalent in both football and basketball, known as points off turnovers.

I'm curious what you mean by that, because I find it to be a very telling thing. And in football, especially, it can be a real back-breaker.

[Greg_Newton]

Not necessarily football-related, but game-related:

Word from my friends (and emails from Jeff, the director) have informed me that DUMB has once again gotten a very strong class of freshmen and had a highly successful band camp. Unlike the past few years, there are quite a few brass players (trombones, trumpets, sousaphones, etc.) which should help with the low volume problem we've had in the past from the predominance of woodwinds, specifically clarinets (of which I was one, but still...). Expect them to be louder and sounding great, per usual, and have a great halftime show all season long.

Nice. I really hope we can win some early games, because I think we could actually have a halfway-decent environment this year if we do. Seems like people are generally coming around to accepting Duke football as competitive and intriguing rather than a novelty punchline.

Folks at the ticket office said sales were up this year, but of course they would. On the way out, however, I did hear someone saying "they're saying it's going to be a sellout". I assume that must have been in reference to the Stanford game (or maybe CTC?) - no chance in Chapel Hill that that many people show for Richmond, is there?

[jimsumner]

Nice. I really hope we can win some early games, because I think we could actually have a halfway-decent environment this year if we do. Seems like people are generally coming around to accepting Duke football as competitive and intriguing rather than a novelty punchline.

Folks at the ticket office said sales were up this year, but of course they would. On the way out, however, I did hear someone saying "they're saying it's going to be a sellout". I assume that must have been in reference to the Stanford game (or maybe CTC?) - no chance in Chapel Hill that that many people show for Richmond, is there?

I believe Duke employees are getting a big break on tickets for the Richmond game.

[Bob Green]

Perhaps one day we can get rid of the fake stat, all too prevalent in both football and basketball, known as points off turnovers.


I'm curious what you mean by that, because I find it to be a very telling thing. And in football, especially, it can be a real back-breaker.

I second OldPhiKap's question. Turnovers mean extra possessions for the opponent and extra opportunities for the opponent to score. In football, it also means your defense has to spend extra time on the field, which can be "a real back-breaker" (borrowing from OldPhiKap) in the 4th quarter.

[6th Man]

I believe Duke employees are getting a big break on tickets for the Richmond game.

I've been to all of Duke's season openers since Coach Cut has been in charge and that game has alway been employee appreciation night. Usually a pretty packed house. I'll be interested to see what kind of crowd shows for the Stanford game. I'm sure Andrew Luck will intrigue a lot of people.

[DukeUsul]

From today's Raleigh N&O:

http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/08/30/1446485/tudor-start-is-key-for-duke.html


Killer Vs

Heh-heh.

I swear I heard that last year.

Ahem. Can anyone find an earlier reference than this one?

http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?17600-The-Killer-Vs

I'll have both my kids decked out in Duke gear this weekend as we look to beat my wife's alma mater (finally!). I'm sick of all her trash talk!

[devildeac]

Ahem. Can anyone find an earlier reference than this one?

http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?17600-The-Killer-Vs

I'll have both my kids decked out in Duke gear this weekend as we look to beat my wife's alma mater (finally!). I'm sick of all her trash talk!

I thought I had read that here before unless that was just crazietalk.

You ought to send that to the N&O and ask for royalties. Or credit at least. Maybe a year or two free subscription. Sporks on the way for you, sir. Good recall/research.

[AtlBluRew]

And why aren't the banners up ALL the time? :eek:

People stop noticing things that are there all the time. I put it up for football and basketball season, and the lacrosse play-offs, and replace it with the flag of my country, the Conch Republic, at other times. It's a well-thought-out strategy to make people notice the Duke banner!

[chrishoke]

I am so ready for the season to start. Enough talk of improvement. We need toi go out and kick Richmond's butt. Our speed on defense should really help in this game. GO DEVILS!

[CDu]

I second OldPhiKap's question. Turnovers mean extra possessions for the opponent and extra opportunities for the opponent to score. In football, it also means your defense has to spend extra time on the field, which can be "a real back-breaker" (borrowing from OldPhiKap) in the 4th quarter.

It depends on the turnover (especially in basketball). In basketball, many many turnovers are no different than missed shots in terms of impact on the opposition's scoring opportunity. Some/many are even dead ball turnovers. Yet the following possessions for those cases, still count in the "points off turnovers department.

In football, turnovers are definitely more critical. But they still aren't all created equal. For example, a 40-yard downfield heave on third-and-long that results in an INT is not terribly different from a punt. Yet the ensuing possession would count as part of the points off turnovers stat. Conversely, you could have a turnover be result in no points off turnovers but still be backbreaking (e.g., throw an INT in the end zone or fumble in the red zone).

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Enough talk! It's time for this team to play solid football, kick butt, take names, and come away with a convincing total victory over Richmond!
Duke 42 Richmond 16

[duke79]

Does anyone consider the Richmond game a "must win" for Duke?

[CDu]

Does anyone consider the Richmond game a "must win" for Duke?

In terms of bowl implications, it's certainly a "need to win" game for us. I think we need to win 3 of 4 non-conference games to make a bowl, and I think we'll lose to Stanford. The path gets very tough if we start the year 0-2.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Does anyone consider the Richmond game a "must win" for Duke?
Life or death? No
Cutcliffe's job on the line? No
The program will fall apart if we lose? No
Fair weather fans will stop supporting a team they don't really support anyway if we lose? Probably
Will we win at least 6 games and qualify for a bowl game? YES, it is a MUST WIN game for Duke

[duke79]

Yea, I didn't mean "must win" as in "life or death" for Duke football (or Coach Cut), but I'm just afraid that if they lose this game, it is going to start the season on a very negative psychological vibe for the team. Duke football, at this point, SHOULD be able to beat Richmond. And Stanford is NOT going to be a easy game for Duke.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

Yea, I didn't mean "must win" as in "life or death" for Duke football (or Coach Cut), but I'm just afraid that if they lose this game, it is going to start the season on a very negative psychological vibe for the team. Duke football, at this point, SHOULD be able to beat Richmond. And Stanford is NOT going to be a easy game for Duke.
A loss for this team doesn't usually bring the same downward fall we witnessed in the old days. .... Coach Cutcliffe and the staff know how to keep the team moving forward.

Does this mean I think winning Saturday is no big deal? Absolutely not! Every game this team can win is important to moving the team and the program to the level we all want to see.

[killerleft]

Does anyone consider the Richmond game a "must win" for Duke?

A win against Stanford would be just about the opposite of what a loss to Richmond would be. To me, anyway. We NEED this game against the 'Nids.

[peloton]

Chrishoke, I'm with you. I am so psyched for this football season I can't stand it; I've been like a kid the last few days before Christmas recently. If fans are this excited, just imagine how pumped the team is. Hopefully they can channel that adrenaline and excitement, playing solid, turnover free football Sat night. I hope it's a large crowd - Coach Cut and the team certainly deserve that. Provided we win (and I believe we will), we should see another good crowd for the Stanford game.

But enough talk...let's play some football. Let's go Blue Devils...let's get it done Saturday night! We are Duke!

[Bob Green]

Enough talk! It's time for this team to play solid football, kick butt, take names, and come away with a convincing total victory over Richmond!
Duke 42 Richmond 16

I agree with all Ozzie says and I enjoy playing the prediction game: Duke 41 - Richmond 7.

[OldPhiKap]

A win would be a very important foundation going forward. I won't say it is a "must" win -- but we need to win it.

[Greg_Newton]

A loss for this team doesn't usually bring the same downward fall we witnessed in the old days. .... Coach Cutcliffe and the staff know how to keep the team moving forward.

Does this mean I think winning Saturday is no big deal? Absolutely not! Every game this team can win is important to moving the team and the program to the level we all want to see.

I'm not sure you can say the same about the fan base, though.

I think it's a very important game for the team to win for its own sake, but even more important for program perception in general.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

I'm not sure you can say the same about the fan base, though.

I think it's a very important game for the team to win for its own sake, but even more important for program perception in general.
I agree with you.

I understood the original comment to relate to the importance of winning the game as that relates to the team's outlook and future performance.

Winning the season opener is going to be a big deal to all of us (fans, students and team) until the program is strong enough to be thought of as a winning program. Fans have to learn to think like winners just as much as the team does.

[RelativeWays]

Dear God, can we please destroy Richmond? I really don't want a repeat of 2009 labor day weekend. There are a lot of players on this team from that squad, they should be bitter angry maladjusted people eagerly willing to inflict pain and punishment on anyone brandishing an arachnid on their person.

I want us to run up the score. I want us to light them up. I think beating Richmond soundly would exorcise a few demons that still linger over the program. in short.............





KILL THEM:mad:

[Reilly]

I want 14 points to make up for 2006 (13-0).
I want 9 points to make up for 2009 (24-16).
... so, that's the first 23 points I want, before getting to this year's game ...

Then, I want to win this year's game by at least 21 points ...

So, 44-0 would do. 47-3. 50-6. 51-7. Something like that would be nice.

[Bob Green]

So, 44-0 would do. 47-3. 50-6. 51-7. Something like that would be nice.

I like your thought process. :cool: We need to make a statement on Saturday to set the tone for the season.

[duke79]

Yea, a big win would be very helpful to boost morale and put us in the right psychological frame of mind to face Stanford. I just hope the team is not "tight" for the first game of the season.

[Bob Green]

Game day has arrived with Duke now being a 9.5 point favorite over Richmond. I still say we will cover the spread. In other ACC games today: Virginia Tech favored by 25.5 over Appalachian State, Carolina favored by 18 over James Madison, Virginia favored by 8.5 over William & Mary, NC State favored by 28.5 over Liberty, Clemson favored by 15.5 over Troy, Florida State favored by 29 over Louisiana Monroe, and Boston College favored by 3.5 over Northwestern.

Picking against the spread is a pain, but I'll say Virginia and Boston College are the ACC teams most likely not to cover. Without Montel Harris in the line-up, I think BC will lose to Northwestern.

[OldPhiKap]

game day has arrived with duke now being a 9.5 point favorite over richmond. I still say we will cover the spread. In other acc games today: Virginia tech favored by 25.5 over appalachian state, carolina favored by 18 over james madison, virginia favored by 8.5 over william & mary, nc state favored by 28.5 over liberty, clemson favored by 15.5 over troy, florida state favored by 29 over louisiana monroe, and boston college favored by 3.5 over northwestern.

Picking against the spread is a pain, but i'll say virginia and boston college are the acc teams most likely not to cover. Without montel harris in the line-up, i think bc will lose to northwestern.

Game day!! Go DEVILS!!!

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

Game day has arrived with Duke now being a 9.5 point favorite over Richmond. I still say we will cover the spread. In other ACC games today: Virginia Tech favored by 25.5 over Appalachian State, Carolina favored by 18 over James Madison, Virginia favored by 8.5 over William & Mary, NC State favored by 28.5 over Liberty, Clemson favored by 15.5 over Troy, Florida State favored by 29 over Louisiana Monroe, and Boston College favored by 3.5 over Northwestern.

Picking against the spread is a pain, but I'll say Virginia and Boston College are the ACC teams most likely not to cover. Without Montel Harris in the line-up, I think BC will lose to Northwestern.
Baylor played a game last night to inspire the rest of us!

[peloton]

I've just found out from speaking with a Duke employee that there's a spider infestation on campus this weekend. While this should be of concern to anyone visiting the Duke campus today (they've identified the type of spider as one with quite a painful bite), the university also wants the public to understand that they're taking steps to eradicate these pesky (and rather large) spiders. While they've used a pesticide in the past commonly called Killer V to get rid of them, it proved to be only but so effective unfortunately. However, I've been told that they're using a higher concentration of Killer V this weekend and are confident that the current spider infestation will be eradicated.

Go Blue Devils!!

[Devilsfan]

Eradicate the Arachnes!
What were they thinking when they chose a mascot?

[chrishoke]

Game day. Go Devils! Let's make this the start of something big.

[-bdbd]

For those of you more used to this than I am, where is the best place to watch this game from (remotely)? I assume one of the on-line venues?

Can't wait!! Go Devils!

[Bob Green]

For those of you more used to this than I am, where is the best place to watch this game from (remotely)? I assume one of the on-line venues?

Can't wait!! Go Devils!

The game is being carried by ESPN3.

[diveonthefloor]

Anyone have a working internet audio stream link?

[OldPhiKap]

Anyone have a working internet audio stream link?

I have had luck with a station in Albemarle -- WZKY -- through the web in years past. Might want to give it a try if you cannot stream ESPN3.com

[hudlow]

Go Duke!

[riverside6]

Live stats and play analysis for the game here:

http://www.scacchoops.com/FB_ViewHDGame.asp?hGame=1022

[Dev11]

Not black unis!

[DevilHorse]

I found a radio link from a Richmond area station.

http://www.espn950am.com/

I can't find any radio station from a Duke source. Pity.

Larry
DevilHorse

[brlftz]

what an absolutely stomach churning display so far...it's the first quarter of the first game, i know, but it's like a replay of the first quarter of the first game of every freakin season.

[ChillinDuke]

Nice, quick score. Will this jumpstart us?

[cspan37421]

Not black unis!

Truly ugly. And I like our BB unis that are black and blue. These - not so much.

Unimpressive performance thus far. We seem to be just shy of the better Div 1 FCS teams.

TERRIBLE clock management at end of half! Why, why, a pass down the middle not in the end zone?

[DueBlevil]

TERRIBLE clock management at end of half! Why, why, a pass down the middle not in the end zone?

I agree. Down by 3 with 10 seconds left from around the 20, go for the endzone or just kick the field goal. That was really bad

[throatybeard]

It's a good thing we don't do English Premiere League-style relegation in college football, because by now, Richmond would be in the ACC and we'd be in whatever league they're in.

[cspan37421]

It's a good thing we don't do English Premiere League-style relegation in college football, because by now, Richmond would be in the ACC and we'd be in whatever league they're in.

But at least then we'd be playing more against our peer group, talent-wise. Frankly I've always liked the notion of multiple divisions with fluid members based on relegation and promotion. It would solve a lot of the issues we see with small market pro teams in baseball, etc.

Just saw some pretty awful tackling as Richmond converted a 3rd and long. And moments later, TD. Cutcliffe may be a good offensive coach but he's not yet shown a talent for picking a solid defensive staff. I wonder how Ted Roof is liking that ring.

[stals]

This team looks like every other team we've fielded over the past 5 years. Just more expensive.
Has Cut really done much? When other d1 teams (see Navy v Delaware, etc) use their first game to fine tune, Duke seems to need these games just to be competitieve. Quite disappointing. Maybe we'll get better next week v Stanford? Vs Andrew Luck........

[cspan37421]

This team looks like every other team we've fielded over the past 5 years. Just more expensive.


I would suggest he's brought us from a 0-1 win team to one that is a 3-5 win team.

It's pretty hard to field a clean, winning program - just look around!

[stals]

Is a 3-5 win team worth the resources Duke's putting into the team?
there are a lot of other efforts at Duke that need resources,

[cspan37421]

Looking at the progress of the game so far, it seems that Renfree is constantly looking to the sideline for a play. He's also not being given much of a leash to throw the ball downfield. All his passes have been rather short or for screens.

(just as I type this he throws long to Vernon - incomplete).

The offensive line has been very good. Once again, the weak spot seems to be the secondary. We have to figure that out.

[stals]

Looking at the progress of the game so far, it seems that Renfree is constantly looking to the sideline for a play. He's also not being given much of a leash to throw the ball downfield. All his passes have been rather short or for screens.

(just as I type this he throws long to Vernon - incomplete).

The offensive line has been very good. Once again, the weak spot seems to be the secondary. We have to figure that out.

You got that right, we have a lot to figure out, including our coach's overly optimistic views on his team's capability.

[DueBlevil]

Please don't give up on this team yet guys!
As a reminder, even if we don't win this game, the last season we started with a loss to Richmond we ended up winning 5 games

[throatybeard]

I don't know, but I'm willing to wager that no IA team has ever previously lost to the same IAA team three times. In five years, no less. At home, no less.

[uh_no]

Please don't give up on this team yet guys!
As a reminder, even if we don't win this game, the last season we started with a loss to Richmond we ended up winning 5 games

The ACC was also very weak that year and our schedule light.

[Chicago 1995]

Is it really that hard to find a *bad* 1-AA team to play?

We shouldn't be losing this game anyway -- a missed 28 yarder? -- but truthfully we shouldn't be PLAYING this game. It can't be that tough to schedule a bad team.

We'd still have to play well to win, but we'd at least have a margin for error.

I think we all kind of expected not to need it at this point against an opponent like this.

[Dev11]

Disappointing start to the season, but no reason we can't bounce back in the coming weeks. GO DUKE!

[arnie]

Same ole Duke football - wait till next year!

[WakeDevil]

Don't let your small children watch next week.

Yes, I'd like to know what Renfree was thinking at the end of the first half. Brilliant.

[TonyWR]

typical...

I second that. Deja Vu all over again.

[grossbus]

i continue to be unimpressed by the play calling.

e.g. the first play in the final series. completed with no chance to get OB or a first down. we were done with that play.

[DueBlevil]

The ACC was also very weak that year and our schedule light.

Well I agree that we are unlikely to win 5 games again this season, but all I'm saying is that we've got some weak teams on our schedule this year too and we will find a couple wins along the way.

But admittedly this was a rather pathetic effort given the buildup.

[gotoguy]

Anybody know how the GG by Snyderwine was missed? Wide L or R? Short? Blocked? Fumbled snap? Inquiring minds...

[DukeUsul]

Anybody know how the GG by Snyderwine was missed? Wide L or R? Short? Blocked? Fumbled snap? Inquiring minds...

He pushed it wide right.

[arnie]

Anybody know how the GG by Snyderwine was missed? Wide L or R? Short? Blocked? Fumbled snap? Inquiring minds...

Bob Harris said it was wide as he was in to big of a hurry.

[ChillinDuke]

Please don't give up on this team yet guys!
As a reminder, even if we don't win this game, the last season we started with a loss to Richmond we ended up winning 5 games

There is just not one positive way to spin this. Not one.

Duke just cannot lose to Richmond at home. Not at this point. It's that simple.

Optimism is fine, but not at the cost of realism.

SMH

[gotoguy]

correction: FG

[cspan37421]

Once again we totally blew clock management at the end of a half. That screen pass which resulted in the receiver being tackled in bounds - and we had no timeouts, with under 45 seconds to play. Just inexcusable. You have to know where you can throw in such situations. If you're going to throw a screen, that receiver has to be no more than 2 steps from the sideline.

I felt bad for Snyderwine - the hold on that chip shot he missed was angled right - maybe that's the way he likes it, but it looked strange and would explain why he missed it. The hold on the 60 yard attempt looked more vertical to me. Perhaps it depends on the distance, but I don't know.

I'm OK with the attempt though. He had the distance; I didn't see Renfree throw truly deep once in the game (granted, I missed the 1st quarter). He threw for 0 TDs, right? I really don't like this "let's bring in a QB to run the ball" type game. It worked here; it's not going to work down the road. QBs need to pass, and when we see those bigger defensive lines, we are especially going to need a passing QB.

Hate that we lost our top 2 running backs. Still, it's not like Hollingsworth hasn't seen the ball before.

We let this one get away, and it really was a decent shot at a win. Richmond has been through turmoil, they were on the road, they were manhandled on the line, but our secondary and our clock management kept them in the game.

[loldevilz]

There were so many chances to win this game.

1st half 10 seconds left in field goal range and you don't even get a kick attempt out of it.

We were 3rd down and 2 at their 30 yard line and Cut calls a timeout and we get a false start.

Obviously the 28 yard miss was inexcusable.

And two turnovers in your own red zone. It was a horribly played game.

Duke did not deserve to win it even though I thought we had a bit more talent on the field.

I hate to say it, but I am really starting to second guess whether Cut is the right man for the job.

[Mabdul Doobakus]

It seems like it doesn't matter who the coach is...Duke football always manages to find ways to lose games it should've won. Tonight being just another example. I didn't actually see any of the game, so it's hard for me to analyze.

But...lose the turnover battle? Check.
Fumble inside your own 10? Check.
Bad clock management? Check.
Missed late chippy FG? Check.

I'm pretty sure Richmond didn't do any of these things. It's hard for me to blame Coach Cut when it's been the same with the previous 2 coaches that I've been around for. I still think this team has enough talent to pull of one quality win this year. Of course, I think that every year.

[stals]

Time to bring back Red Wilson?
This guy is overratefd.

[cspan37421]

What an offensive game!

Quote of the evening!!

[Chicago 1995]

Well I agree that we are unlikely to win 5 games again this season, but all I'm saying is that we've got some weak teams on our schedule this year too and we will find a couple wins along the way.

But admittedly this was a rather pathetic effort given the buildup.

We'll find a couple wins? That's not progress. It's regression.

If we're going to have something that approaches a competitive football program like Wake or Vandy or whoever else we view as a realistic asiprational peer, we aren't looking for a couple wins. We aren't losing to Richmond for god's sake.

It's not a good time for our FB program to remind everyone just how much dead weight it is.

Awful. I love Cut, but this is the kind of loss that ratchets up the heat on your seat.

[duke79]

We lost?? to Richmond??............UGH

[throatybeard]

Ah, good, the board software is suggesting I read the 2009 thread "FB: Richmond 24, Duke 16."

[loran16]

Is it really that hard to find a *bad* 1-AA team to play?


This is the wrong question. If you cant' beat Richmond, you can't be bowl eligible. It's that simple.

Now here's the question: Do we need a change of defensive staff and how we recruit defensively? Duke was last in D in the Conference last year, but was 9th the two years before that. There's no question that Cutt has improved the offense immensely over the Roof years, but the defense has been atrocious.

Meanwhile here's the real question: What defensive recruits has Cut brought in? The best Cut's done is bring in a number of 3 star cornerbacks, but they've basically done very poorly while at Duke, and the Defensive line has been atrocious.

Don't get me wrong, this isn't me pining for Ted Roof. I remember Duke going 2-33 my first three years. But there's something clearly lacking in terms of creating a productive defense.

Today's game was hurt by two terrible turnovers by the offense. But the defense still shouldn't have allowed Richmond to drive and score twice on drives not started on turnovers. And yet IT DID.

We'll win this year - our offense will click for at least one game. But this is getting real irritating to see. We need a DEFENSE to be a bowl oriented team. And Duke just hasn't shown the personnel or the teaching personnel to pull that off.

[arnie]

I would suggest he's brought us from a 0-1 win team to one that is a 3-5 win team.

It's pretty hard to field a clean, winning program - just look around!

May not win 3-5 this year; except for 4-lane don't see other probable wins. We just aren't bringing in high caliber athletes anymore. Every year is the same and I don't see us competing in a BCS conference unless that changes.

[Chicago 1995]

It seems like it doesn't matter who the coach is...Duke football always manages to find ways to lose games it should've won. Tonight being just another example. I didn't actually see any of the game, so it's hard for me to analyze.

But...lose the turnover battle? Check.
Fumble inside your own 10? Check.
Bad clock management? Check.
Missed late chippy FG? Check.

I'm pretty sure Richmond didn't do any of these things. It's hard for me to blame Coach Cut when it's been the same with the previous 2 coaches that I've been around for. I still think this team has enough talent to pull of one quality win this year. Of course, I think that every year.

Sounds like a poorly coached football team. If we're ever going to approach mediocrity, we have to eliminate this stuff. And you're right that it doesn't seem like we ever can.

[SilkyJ]

So, 44-0 would do. 47-3. 50-6. 51-7. Something like that would be nice.

Sigh...that would have been nice (not singling you out, I had high hopes myself)



I hate to say it, but I am really starting to second guess whether Cut is the right man for the job.

I'm as disappointed and annoyed as everyone else, but Cut won more games in the last 3 seasons than we won in the previous 8 or 10 or something. Unless the Ol' Ball Coach is walking through those doors (and he ain't) I'm not sure who else would do much better...

[DueBlevil]

We'll find a couple wins? That's not progress. It's regression.

If we're going to have something that approaches a competitive football program like Wake or Vandy or whoever else we view as a realistic asiprational peer, we aren't looking for a couple wins. We aren't losing to Richmond for god's sake.

It's not a good time for our FB program to remind everyone just how much dead weight it is.

Awful. I love Cut, but this is the kind of loss that ratchets up the heat on your seat.

yeah I have to agree. I think Cut is a great person who is very good at certain things football-wise, but it makes me question his judgment when he talks about how great this team is compared to previous Duke teams, how they really don't even compare, and yet when I see the actual game, I see the same old Duke football that I've been watching for almost 10 years now. Poor technique, poor decision making, and to top it off, just bad luck.

In Cut's defense though, I have heard him say multiple times that we're not quite "there" yet. I think "there" is competing for ACC championships. Clearly he's correct. But I'm afraid we might still be even behind where he thinks we are...

[brlftz]

coaching loss. the kind of stupid play we saw today is exactly what you'd expect to eliminate with a high dollar coaching staff. our guys just didn't look prepared, despite being clearly physically superior. we were dominating the line and still couldn't win? and then there's the repeated blitzing. i kept yelling at the screen "no blitz", and everytime we'd go chugging in there, only to see a short dumpoff become a 40 yard gain. amazing, and i haven't even mentioned the clock yet...

[cspan37421]

"Coach, how do you feel about the execution of your offense?"

(everyone knows the punchline, right?)

[stals]

Duke football could have broken new ground this year with the Pascal facility upbeat claims regarding the team from the staff. Unfortunatley, it's more of the same. What's next Dr. White?

[loran16]

I'm as disappointed and annoyed as everyone else, but Cut won more games in the last 3 seasons than we won in the previous 8 or 10 or something. Unless the Ol' Ball Coach is walking through those doors (and he ain't) I'm not sure who else would do much better...

Lets get one thing right here: Cut isn't blameless. For an offensive guru, his time management was horrendous, helped along by two bad early time out calls - one in each half, that led to duke having 40 seconds less time on their final drives of each half, and the awful play at the end of the first half. And then there's the defense.

At the same time, he's nowhere near in danger of being fired. Nor should he be, and nor should there be any talk. But there are very legitimate concerns over his coaching and recruiting particularly of the defense.

[cspan37421]

What's especially startling to me is that Renfree had to constantly look to the sideline for plays. LOOONG looks. He's not a new starter this year, as I recall. Is he given no discretion at all to look over a defense, gauge the situation, and call something?

Who called the two clock-killing passes at the end of each half? Coach Cut? Coach Roper?

I thought both our lines looked very good. I don't think Richmond ran on us much at all, and we ran on them very well. Perhaps if we hadn't lost Scott and the other fellow, we'd have not needed a FG attempt with a couple minutes to go. But for all of the heralding of the Cutcliffe era at Duke, his 2nd year starting QB throws for 0 TDs against Div 1 FCS team. This with some excellent WRs, thought to be the best tandem in the ACC? Didn't they put up good numbers last year?

The longest attempt I saw Renfree make was maybe 20 yards through the air (plus drop back so maybe 27). That's not exactly a bomb - and it was the only non-short attempt I saw.

[buddy]

This loss is entirely on the offense, and particularly the offensive play callling. Sure, the defense allowed Richmond two long drives, but that's to be expected in a game. When the offense turns the ball over on its own 7, it's hard to blame the defense when the other team scores.

The first quarter was a total waste. Run on first down, run on second down, and then try to pass. We completely wasted that quarter on offense. We threw long exactly once in the game. With our receivers and our (supposedly) hot shot quarterback, we should long more than that. I actually liked passing with ten seconds left in the first half; however, the pass needs to be to the end zone or incomplete, and a redshirt junior quarterback has to have enough presence of mind to know that. After the illegal procedure with third and seven, we throw a swing pass. the object of the game is to get across the goal line, not the sideline.

I am having my doubts about Cut as well. But mostly, I think we need a new offensive coordinator. If Cut can't see that, then he is the wrong guy. Too bad, but at a time when Duke is showcasing the new practice center has pushing big plans to expand the stadium, I need a reason to go to the games. And after tonight, I no longer have a reason to go to the games.

[NYC Duke Fan]

Stanford does it, Vanderbilt does it, Northwestern does it...no it is not the Cole Porter song, I just cannot understand why Duke just cannot get its football program on the right track. There has to be a reason why other schools with academics as high as Duke's can field compettive football teams and Duke just can't.

In virtually every other sport with the possible exception of baseball, Duke's athletic teams are extremely compettitive, it just cannot do the same in football.

Would someone with much more knowledge than me try and explain this. Is Cutcliffe the wrong guy? Do good football players just don't want to come to Duke; why do they want to go to Evanston, Nashville or Palo Alto?

Thank you

[Bob Green]

What's especially startling to me is that Renfree had to constantly look to the sideline for plays. LOOONG looks. He's not a new starter this year, as I recall. Is he given no discretion at all to look over a defense, gauge the situation, and call something?

That's the system we run. Even Thad Lewis as a senior did the same thing. The plays are sent in via hand signals in two steps. First, the team lines up and sees how the defense aligns, then the QB, WRs and RBs look to the sideline for the play to be signaled to them. The center looks to the sideline for the blocking scheme and communicates it to the offensive line.

[throatybeard]

We just aren't bringing in high caliber athletes anymore. Every year is the same and I don't see us competing in a BCS conference unless that changes.

We could compete in the...

...consults wiki...

Colonial Athletic Association. I mean, check it, yo. In a mere five seasons, we've moved from a shutout 13-pt loss, to an 8-pt loss, to a 2-pt loss. And people say we aren't making progress.

PS, I just learned Richmond is in different conferences for FB and for everything else (A10).

[CDu]

That was either inexcusable playcalling or inexcusable execution on the last drives of each half. I'm assuming that it was on the QB in this game. You just can't have the ball in "comfortable" FG range with 10 seconds left and not even come away with an attempt. You can't throw the ball to the middle of the field short of the 1st down line there, and the throw was 3-4 yards short. And while it was unlikely that we'd get in FG range at the end of the game, we made it a virtual certainty that we'd fall short by throwing a short pass in between the numbers. The throw to Vernon on the next-to-last play was the type of play we needed on 1st down (over 10 yards and out of bounds).

I was considering the outside chance that we could sneak into bowl eligibility this year. But losing to Richmond makes that outside chance even more remote. Just a sloppy, sloppy game by our guys tonight. We threw away 6 points with the missed FG and the failure to attempt a FG at the half, and then we gave Richmond an easy score when we turned it over inside our own 10. When you're a poor football team, you can't spot a team (even an FCS team) 13 points.

There are still some winnable games left. But tonight sucked a lot of the optimism out of the season for me.

[mitch84]

I don't get it. Stanford has a great team, they are the Duke of the west. Why not us? Next week will be painful to be sure.
We have such a culture of losing, as my old roommate says, but I can't believe that this has to persist. We are a smart school. Maybe not as athletic on the football field, but certainly smart, and shouldn't make dumb mistakes and dumb play calling. The end of the first half made me feel just completely helpless, like Pavlov's dog.

I will continue to support the team, and keep my season tickets and be an Iron Duke because this is my school, and at least they do it the right way. I have friends who don't have a division I football team to root for.

But please, Cut, can I have one major bowl before I die? PLEASE!!!!!!

Let's Go Duke!!!!! Damnit!!!!!!!!

[CDu]

That's the system we run. Even Thad Lewis as a senior did the same thing. The plays are sent in via hand signals in two steps. First, the team lines up and sees how the defense aligns, then the QB, WRs and RBs look to the sideline for the play to be signaled to them. The center looks to the sideline for the blocking scheme and communicates it to the offensive line.

Yeah, that's not an uncommon thing in college football, and as you said we've done it for pretty much the entirety of the Cutcliffe era (regardless of QB).

[dukelifer]

Stanford does it, Vanderbilt does it, Northwestern does it...no it is not the Cole Porter song, I just cannot understand why Duke just cannot get its football program on the right track. There has to be a reason why other schools with academics as high as Duke's can field compettive football teams and Duke just can't.

In virtually every other sport with the possible exception of baseball, Duke's athletic teams are extremely compettitive, it just cannot do the same in football.

Would someone with much more knowledge than me try and explain this. Is Cutcliffe the wrong guy? Do good football players just don't want to come to Duke; why do they want to go to Evanston, Nashville or Palo Alto?

Thank you

First- I am not so sure how you throw in Vandy here. Except for a few seasons, they have been lucky to win 3 games a season over the last 20 years. Northwestern is not exactly in the same academic class as Duke and Stanford. Stanford is the exception here. Having the best QB in the nation from time to time is going to help you. And if a player had to choose between Palo Alto and Durham- I am pretty sure Palo Alto is going to win most every time.

[J.Blink]

Like many others here I sat through a lot of games in the Goldsmith-Franks-Roof era(s). I'm used to feeling beaten up after a game and thinking "next year."

Today I felt MAD walking out of the stadium. I really felt this was a game that was very winnable, that we SHOULD have won, that we needed to win, and that the failure really falls on the coaches. The stands were -- rightfully -- disgruntled as hell at the end of the game. I don't think we should be losing games like this in Cut's 4th year. We're paying orders of magnitude more for the football coaching staff than we did before Cut and the results just aren't showing up so far (eg, Roof had some really quite good recruiting classes). There's no question in my mind that Roof wasn't ready (or possibly meant to be) a head coach and that Duke as a team is improved over Roof's last seasons (penalties are at least improved!). After a game like tonight though, it makes me want to reevaluate that statement. I absolutely support more time for Cut and I understand it takes time to turn things around, but again, I feel like if you didn't know what you were watching, you could easily think tonight's team was a Roof team or a Franks team.

Snyderwine missed an easy kick and Renfree did not look...well, like much. But I don't think you can blame this game on either of them. This is just really distressing.

I blame the black uniforms!

[cspan37421]

That's the system we run. Even Thad Lewis as a senior did the same thing. The plays are sent in via hand signals in two steps. First, the team lines up and sees how the defense aligns, then the QB, WRs and RBs look to the sideline for the play to be signaled to them. The center looks to the sideline for the blocking scheme and communicates it to the offensive line.

OK, thanks, I trust your knowledge on that. Still, I don't recall Lewis & Co having to spend THAT much time waiting for instructions.

[J.Blink]

First- I am not so sure how you throw in Vandy here. Except for a few seasons, they have been lucky to win 3 games a season over the last 20 years. Northwestern is not exactly in the same academic class as Duke and Stanford. Stanford is the exception here. Having the best QB in the nation from time to time is going to help you. And if a player had to choose between Palo Alto and Durham- I am pretty sure Palo Alto is going to win most every time.

Uhm, really? In this year's US News rankings Northwestern is #12, Duke is in a 3-way tie for #9, and Stanford is #5.

[CDu]

Uhm, really? In this year's US News rankings Northwestern is #12, Duke is in a 3-way tie for #9, and Stanford is #5.

Yeah, relative to the rest of major college football, Northwestern should absolutely be considered in the same category as Duke. Moreso even than Vanderbilt, I'd say. But I'd include all of them together. Smaller, private schools with strong academic standards.

[throatybeard]

Uhm, really? In this year's US News rankings Northwestern is #12, Duke is in a 3-way tie for #9, and Stanford is #5.

Indeed. The views of people on this board towards just about all other universities are usually inaccurate and frequently gratuitously insulting. It has really made me regret my Duke affiliation at times. I'll write more about this later.

[dukelifer]

Like many others here I sat through a lot of games in the Goldsmith-Franks-Roof era(s). I'm used to feeling beaten up after a game and thinking "next year."

Today I felt MAD walking out of the stadium. I really felt this was a game that was very winnable, that we SHOULD have won, that we needed to win, and that the failure really falls on the coaches. The stands were -- rightfully -- disgruntled as hell at the end of the game. I don't think we should be losing games like this in Cut's 4th year. We're paying orders of magnitude more for the football coaching staff than we did before Cut and the results just aren't showing up so far (eg, Roof had some really quite good recruiting classes). There's no question in my mind that Roof wasn't ready (or possibly meant to be) a head coach and that Duke as a team is improved over Roof's last seasons (penalties are at least improved!). After a game like tonight though, it makes me want to reevaluate that statement. I absolutely support more time for Cut and I understand it takes time to turn things around, but again, I feel like if you didn't know what you were watching, you could easily think tonight's team was a Roof team or a Franks team.

Snyderwine missed an easy kick and Renfree did not look...well, like much. But I don't think you can blame this game on either of them. This is just really distressing.

I blame the black uniforms!

Duke has to win the first home game. They give away tickets- they get the employees out in pretty large numbers to watch and this is the only change to make a good first impression. Today's was the last game the casual fan will come to this year. I will continue to watch and I am sure Duke will get a win or two because things will click on a given Saturday. But, the casual Duke fan will not come back. Duke needs to get more fans in the stands - so players will want to come and play there. That did not happen today and so we wait another year to try to get more people to come out and watch. Until Duke can convince fans to come out- they should not even think about fixing Wallace Wade. Wallace Wade is not the problem- it is losing games that should be won.

[Acymetric]

I actually thought the defense looked good except for a few huge blown plays. We weren't exactly making Richmond march all the way down the field on every drive.

On the other hand, coaching was horrible. At one point in the first quarter we had 19 rushes for 1.9 ypc to go with ~5 pass attempts. By my recollection we took no more than 3 shots downfield the whole game. Until some time in the 3rd quarter we had targeted our best receiver (at worst 2nd best, but I think that's hard to argue) once. That's when we lost this game. We should have been taking shots left and right. Goal should have been to score 2-3 times per quarter. Instead it looked like we were playing possession football afraid we might screw up and lose. Guess what...we did. Add in the awful time management

And its not like this is the first time I or others on this board have criticized Roper's strategies. I think Cut can be the answer, but its going to be hard for me to keep coming back without some kind of shakeup in the offensive staff. Just embarrassing. Not even remotely excited about the rest of this season now. Before today I would have said no less than 4 wins this year, take that to the bank. Now the only game I feel comfortable calling a win is Tulane, and I wouldn't put money on it. 1-11 isn't out of the question, I'll be surprised at anything better.

I had been starting to make plans to attend a few away games, like UVA and unc...now I think it'll take all my energy just to drag myself to the home games. I think I'm gonna need some stroooong medicine after next Saturday's game.

The fact that next week is against Stanford will help bring out some numbers again as people want to see the top team/top QB and students may have a "lets pull against the other smart guys" attitude, if we were playing any other opponent I'd probably guess something like 15-18k for the next game.

[devildeac]

Ah, good, the board software is suggesting I read the 2009 thread "FB: Richmond 24, Duke 16."

We are getting closer with each game we lose to Richmond. Tonight it was "only" a 2 point loss:rolleyes::mad:.

[dukelifer]

Indeed. The views of people on this board towards just about all other universities are usually inaccurate and frequently gratuitously insulting. It has really made me regret my Duke affiliation at times. I'll write more about this later.

I honestly did not think they were that highly ranked- I thought the low teens. I stand corrected.

[OldPhiKap]

I figured there was a good chance of being 1-1 through two games. So I guess we have to beat Stanford.

Next play.

[throatybeard]

I honestly did not think they were that highly ranked- I thought the low teens. I stand corrected.

As if that would make a meaningful difference. In a news magazine that moves the top schools around all the time just to sell more magazines.

[Newton_14]

This is the wrong question. If you cant' beat Richmond, you can't be bowl eligible. It's that simple.

Now here's the question: Do we need a change of defensive staff and how we recruit defensively? Duke was last in D in the Conference last year, but was 9th the two years before that. There's no question that Cutt has improved the offense immensely over the Roof years, but the defense has been atrocious.

Meanwhile here's the real question: What defensive recruits has Cut brought in? The best Cut's done is bring in a number of 3 star cornerbacks, but they've basically done very poorly while at Duke, and the Defensive line has been atrocious.

Don't get me wrong, this isn't me pining for Ted Roof. I remember Duke going 2-33 my first three years. But there's something clearly lacking in terms of creating a productive defense.

Today's game was hurt by two terrible turnovers by the offense. But the defense still shouldn't have allowed Richmond to drive and score twice on drives not started on turnovers. And yet IT DID.

We'll win this year - our offense will click for at least one game. But this is getting real irritating to see. We need a DEFENSE to be a bowl oriented team. And Duke just hasn't shown the personnel or the teaching personnel to pull that off.

All I will say is, if you think the defense lost this game, you obviously were not in the stadium tonight. The defense was very respectable, if not downright good tonight, especially in the first half. The offense was putrid in the first half, could not move the ball, then handed Richmond a TD by fumbling on the 5 yard line. The defense stayed on the field far too long in the first half, yet only gave up the 10 points, all 10 coming on a short field off Duke Offense fumbles.

In the 2nd half they switched the coverage to man for awhile and could not get stops. They then went back to the same scheme from the first half and got stops again. The D only gave up 95 yards rushing on 31 carries. The one long pass play was a short pass on blown coverage and the guy ran for 40something yards. The defense absolutely did not lose this game.

2 Fumbles, the bad clock management at the end of the first half, and the missed 28 yard FG were the plays that lost the game. A terrible loss for sure, but the offense being totally out of synch the first 4 drives killed us. On those first 4 drives the O-Line was getting dominated at the line of scrimmage. Once they settled down, we moved the ball. The cold reality is that the margin of error is small, and we cannot afford to make big mistakes like that and win.

By the way, on the 28 yd FG miss, they rushed, the snap was bad, and it was not a push as much as it was a semi-shank. It was also the first FG attempt of the game and we have a new holder this year. I honestly believe if we would have at least attempted that FG at the end of the first half, we get the "first FG attempt of the year" jitters out of the way, and Will likely nails the 28 yarder to win the game. But we will never know.

On the 59/60 yarder, the distance was there, but he pulled it left. Nothing Will could do there but give it a shot, which he did. I just hate we put him in that situation.

I am a huge optimist and I will be there next week, but there is no sugar coating this loss. We are simply going to have to steal one against one of the big boys to make up for this one.

Next Play.

[Duvall]

I honestly did not think they were that highly ranked- I thought the low teens. I stand corrected.

That's not the problem. The problem is assuming that there is some fundamental difference between #9 and #19.

In any case, Duke's biggest disadvantage - aside from the last two decades of abysmal football - isn't academic, it's demographic. North Carolina just doesn't put out enough football talent to support four BCS and five FBS programs. That's a problem that Stanford and Northwestern very much don't have.

[Greg_Newton]

...tonight sucked a lot of the optimism out of the season for me.

This is the most disheartening part about tonight... the program NEEDED to win this game. The stadium was pretty full, the students packed out their section, it felt like we were getting closer to that "tipping point" where Duke football becomes something interesting and exciting rather than depressing and laughable to the non-diehards. If we win, we get the excitement of Stanford, etc., and maybe we finally reach that critical mass on the bandwagon. The fact that we blew such a crucial moment could have set the program back several years in a lot of ways, which sucks.

Especially because we should have won. Richmond is not a great team, lost a lot of seniors, their coach just got fired... our defense looked very good, as did the running game. We just gave the game away. I mean:

-2 TOs inside our 10 yard-line.

-Gave up several big gains on 3rd an 10+ at crucial junctures.

-Inexplicably blown opportunity for chip-shot FG at the end of the first half.

-Started several early drives inside the 5.

-Wasted time-out, false start, and TO on downs on the "3rd and 2" sequence.

-Top 3 RBs and top 2 OLs injured for deciding, failed goal-line series that led to...

-The missed chip-shot FG.

We never should have been in that position in the first place - our passing game should have torn Richmond apart - but fix just one or two of those inexcusable mistakes, and we probably still win. So disappointing.

[grossbus]

I shudder to think how many points Stanford could score.

[uh_no]

I shudder to think how many points Stanford could score.

lol...watch us come out and win next week.

[Devilsfan]

I'm a huge Cut fan. Integrity, Hardwork, Trust, and Loyalty all great traits I admire. This time though his loyalty got him an L. His coaches didn't let our guys win the game IMO. Very suspect offensive calls all night. Untimely timeouts, going for it on 4th and 1+ on our own 30, 4th and ten and we throw under the coverage, 12 seconds left in the first half and they showed no confidence in our kicker and run out the clock with a pass short of the first down marker. I was wondering if I was watching a preseason NFL game where the coaches were just seeing what players could do without any consequences. This was Richmond not LSU or Alabama. Richmond! Tonight our guys were clearly better than the opposition but they were handicapped by our offensive coordinator's calls, IMO.

[dukebsbll14]

Duke has to win the first home game. They give away tickets- they get the employees out in pretty large numbers to watch and this is the only change to make a good first impression. Today's was the last game the casual fan will come to this year. I will continue to watch and I am sure Duke will get a win or two because things will click on a given Saturday. But, the casual Duke fan will not come back. Duke needs to get more fans in the stands - so players will want to come and play there. That did not happen today and so we wait another year to try to get more people to come out and watch. Until Duke can convince fans to come out- they should not even think about fixing Wallace Wade. Wallace Wade is not the problem- it is losing games that should be won.

Completely agree. Stanford will probably be the last game where we fill the stands, at least student section wise. Good news is the season isn't over. Chances are we'll lose to Stanford, but if we can roll off a couple of wins after that maybe we'll be wrong. Honestly though, we're not going to get more fans in the stands until we become competitive in the conference. There just aren't enough serious Duke football fans at Duke (unless we start accepting more football fans).

I think everyone wants to be as optimistic as possible about Duke football. I believe all of the players are Cut's now? We keep hearing how much we've improved since the Roof years (which we have though tonight didn't look like it) so its very frustrating to still see losses like this. Rome wasn't built in a day, but at some point we gotta start putting some wins on the board and consistently. Student support isn't going to change much until that happens. I believe in Cut, but when do we say there needs to be a change? By no means do I think Cutcliffe should be out, we'll see how this season plays out but if it doesn't improve or we can't get it going 3-4 years from now, it just ain't gonna happen.

Again, the good news is the season isn't over, there's time to get better. Maybe the team we saw tonight was it at its worst, I dunno. Anyways, 41 days until C2C...

And to top it all off I lost my Oakleys at the game! Not a good day for me....

[dukelifer]

As if that would make a meaningful difference. In a news magazine that moves the top schools around all the time just to sell more magazines.

Well there are lots of rankings- not just the one in the News magazine. I thought like many on this board that Academics has been a factor in Duke's problems in fielding a good team. This discussion makes me realize that this may not be the issue at all.

[Jim3k]

All I will say is, if you think the defense lost this game, you obviously were not in the stadium tonight. The defense was very respectable, if not downright good tonight, especially in the first half. The offense was putrid in the first half, could not move the ball, then handed Richmond a TD by fumbling on the 5 yard line. The defense stayed on the field far too long in the first half, yet only gave up the 10 points, all 10 coming on a short field off Duke Offense fumbles.

In the 2nd half they switched the coverage to man for awhile and could not get stops. They then went back to the same scheme from the first half and got stops again. The D only gave up 95 yards rushing on 31 carries. The one long pass play was a short pass on blown coverage and the guy ran for 40something yards. The defense absolutely did not lose this game.

2 Fumbles, the bad clock management at the end of the first half, and the missed 28 yard FG were the plays that lost the game. A terrible loss for sure, but the offense being totally out of synch the first 4 drives killed us. On those first 4 drives the O-Line was getting dominated at the line of scrimmage. Once they settled down, we moved the ball. The cold reality is that the margin of error is small, and we cannot afford to make big mistakes like that and win.

By the way, on the 28 yd FG miss, they rushed, the snap was bad, and it was not a push as much as it was a semi-shank. It was also the first FG attempt of the game and we have a new holder this year. I honestly believe if we would have at least attempted that FG at the end of the first half, we get the "first FG attempt of the year" jitters out of the way, and Will likely nails the 28 yarder to win the game. But we will never know.

On the 59/60 yarder, the distance was there, but he pulled it left. Nothing Will could do there but give it a shot, which he did. I just hate we put him in that situation.

I am a huge optimist and I will be there next week, but there is no sugar coating this loss. We are simply going to have to steal one against one of the big boys to make up for this one.

Next Play.


Big time "yep!" The turnovers giving short field position is what this loss can be attributed to. The FGs and the play calling and clock management were not good; but the turnovers were what cost us: two cheap TDs.

[johnb]

I don't question the delay waiting for the call from the sideline. lots of teams do it, but I first saw it a few years ago when Oklahoma did it, and they looked invincible.

I'm sure renfree is bummed about the game, and he never gave up, and all a fan can expect is effort, but he did not look like a division I qb tonight. if that's his best, we're going to have some serious pain against teams with future NFL players dotting their defenses. it wasn't just the bonehead time management, but his ability to throw downfield seemed almost nonexistent.

having said that, I think we made a mistake scheduling a solid team that our team might (somehow) underestimate. and while the game was episodically painful to watch, I'm still hopeful for a few wins--though not next week, when we'll presumably get creamed but perhaps less banged up and demoralized than after the Alabama game

oh, and I think Harvard/Yale/Princeton would say the gap between 9 and 25 in USNews is trivial compared to the gap between 9 and 4....

[loran16]

I actually thought the defense looked good except for a few huge blown plays. We weren't exactly making Richmond march all the way down the field on every drive.

On the other hand, coaching was horrible. At one point in the first quarter we had 19 rushes for 1.9 ypc to go with ~5 pass attempts. By my recollection we took no more than 3 shots downfield the whole game. Until some time in the 3rd quarter we had targeted our best receiver (at worst 2nd best, but I think that's hard to argue) once. That's when we lost this game. We should have been taking shots left and right. Goal should have been to score 2-3 times per quarter. Instead it looked like we were playing possession football afraid we might screw up and lose. Guess what...we did. Add in the awful time management

And its not like this is the first time I or others on this board have criticized Roper's strategies. I think Cut can be the answer, but its going to be hard for me to keep coming back without some kind of shakeup in the offensive staff. Just embarrassing. Not even remotely excited about the rest of this season now. Before today I would have said no less than 4 wins this year, take that to the bank. Now the only game I feel comfortable calling a win is Tulane, and I wouldn't put money on it. 1-11 isn't out of the question, I'll be surprised at anything better.

I had been starting to make plans to attend a few away games, like UVA and unc...now I think it'll take all my energy just to drag myself to the home games. I think I'm gonna need some stroooong medicine after next Saturday's game.

The fact that next week is against Stanford will help bring out some numbers again as people want to see the top team/top QB and students may have a "lets pull against the other smart guys" attitude, if we were playing any other opponent I'd probably guess something like 15-18k for the next game.

While I don't disagree on the offensive coaching, I have to disagree on the defense. Duke allowed nearly 300 yards to Richmond. Now listen, Richmond is a good 1-AA team. But even the best 1-AA teams should struggle to mount any offense against a 1-A defense. Take W&M v UVA or JMU against UNC today, both of whom are generally pretty good 1-AA teams, but couldn't score on their opponents, and Virginia is not a great defense (UNC fine).

It's a consistent thing - the opposing QBs don't face any pressure, and when we blitz someone is wide open and the blitzers don't get there fast enough to make up for it.

The offensive coaching was super poor this game indeed. But the defense just isn't BCS material. It's not.

[CDu]

and they showed no confidence in our kicker and run out the clock with a pass short of the first down marker.

To be fair, I don't think the play at the end of the first half had anything to do with a lack of confidence in the kicker. There was plenty of time to run a play and still try the FG if necessary. You just have to make sure that the result of said play is either a TD, 1st Down, out of bounds, or incomplete pass. I think it was just a poor choice of targets by Renfree on that particular play.

But the offensive playcalling in general left a lot to be desired. And the turnovers hurt a lot. As did having to waste two timeouts to avoid delay of game penalties. And of course the shanked chip-shot FG hurt.

Uggh, it's frustrating to get killed by big plays all night long.

[Bob Green]

But even the best 1-AA teams should struggle to mount any offense against a 1-A defense. Take W&M v UVA or JMU against UNC today, both of whom are generally pretty good 1-AA teams, but couldn't score on their opponents, and Virginia is not a great defense (UNC fine).

This is a solid point. Richmond is not ranked in the FCS Top 25, but W&M is #3 and Virginia beat them 40-3. Appalachian State is #4 but they lost to Virginia Tech 66-13. Liberty is #19, but they lost to NC State 43-21.

http://fcsnow.com/poll.aspx

Our offense should have scored 40+ points against the Spiders.

[dukeballer2294]

look at the bright side fellas, we have the same record as Notre Dame, Georgia, and last years runner up Oregon. nothing to do about it now, except improve and go for the upset next weekend.

[uh_no]

Our offense should have scored 40+ points against the Spiders.

Definitely the key. We've heard ad nauseum about the turnovers....but we should hav eput 400 passing yards on these guys.....I wonder if its renfree sluggishness....he had a slow start next year.....I hope he can bounce back for a uge one next week

[Bob Green]

.....I wonder if its renfree sluggishness....he had a slow start next year.....

Slow start next year??? I've had about 14 beers today, but I think you've had more. :D

[Newton_14]

Definitely the key. We've heard ad nauseum about the turnovers....but we should hav eput 400 passing yards on these guys.....I wonder if its renfree sluggishness....he had a slow start next year.....I hope he can bounce back for a uge one next week

I agree we should have scored far more points. Part of it goes back to the first half. They did fine once they got it going, but only scoring 7 in the first half was a killer. If we score 21+ points in the first half, like we should have, then the handful of bad plays we all have mentioned become teaching points in a big win, instead of the difference between a win and loss.

[Acymetric]

Slow start next year??? I've had about 14 beers today, but I think you've had more. :D

Hey, at this point I think it could be an accurate prediction.

[msdukie]

Too bad, but at a time when Duke is showcasing the new practice center has pushing big plans to expand the stadium, I need a reason to go to the games. And after tonight, I no longer have a reason to go to the games.

Here is your reason: The team on the field is Duke and represents Duke. That is the only reason you need.

[uh_no]

Here is your reason: The team on the field is Duke and represents Duke. That is the only reason you need.

I was competing in the world finals of the international collegiate programming competition representing duke last spring.....were you there?

why is the football team more important than any other group representing duke

[duke09hms]

Same old Duke football. The team has no right to expect students to give up a Saturday afternoon or night to come watch this display of ineptness. The same bonehead coaching decisions, turnovers in our own red zone, and a defense that loves giving up big plays. It will be absurd if there's another thread on this board this year complaining about students not coming to the games. I watched on espn3 in Boston with another Dukie tonight, and we were dreading every 3rd and long our defense forced, knowing Richmond would somehow convert. Dreading every long rush and run after catch, feeling another fumble was around the corner. I can't help but think all the resources Duke devotes to football would be much better used in going to financial aid.

Okay, enough venting. But honestly, think cost-benefit analysis here. Each million we put towards football could provide 25 undergrads with full-tuition scholarships, and I know we put at least a couple million a year for football. Gotta think, is it worth it?

A BCS team should not be losing to a FCS team, especially one that just lost their coach a week ago. And what is up with scheduling opponents we have no business playing. Alabama last year, Stanford this year and next. We should be playing a directional Michigan team, Rice, or some other crap team, and why can't we play NCCU instead of a top FCS team? Do not understand this at all, just like I don't understand our bizarre hamstrung offensive play-calling.

Is it Renfree making those horrible decisions (last completion of the 1st half, last few pass plays of the game) or is it the coaches forcing him to run these plays? If even casual football fans can see these idiotic decisions for what they are, shouldn't people getting paid millions of dollars to be experts see as well? Maybe it was the hit to the head Renfree took in the first half. I honestly would not be surprised if he had at least a minor concussion, given the decisions he made tonight. Also, is anyone else thinking the Connette/Boone running QB package in the red zone is way too predictable? I think we need to live and die with Renfree as the full-time 1st string QB.

Bright sides of this game?
- Run game looked good, but then again it was the Richmond defense. (I think we overemphasized the run tonight, our strength is the receivers, yet we only targeted them once in a while, and very rarely tried to go deep.)
- O-line looked good after they got settled, but then again it was the Richmond defense.
- Except for the big plays, the defense looked good. I'll give credit to the Richmond's ex-USC QB Corp, made some tough throws.
- Punting game was awesome. Alex King pinned them deep a couple times behind the 5 yd line.

Jim Harbaugh brought Stanford from 1-11 to 12-1 and Orange Bowl champs in 4 years. Perhaps an even greater, arguably the greatest challenge in college FB could bring him to Duke sometime?

[duke09hms]

I was competing in the world finals of the international collegiate programming competition representing duke last spring.....were you there?

why is the football team more important than any other group representing duke

Exactly. I support everything about Duke but follow football more closely because I like sports and used to play football. That's about it. Not everyone at Duke has those interests.

The expectation that more students should come watch a poor product for hours every weekend is a poor one. If you build it, they will come. And IT is definitely not there.

"uh no", congrats on making the world finals in programming my man! (not gender-specific)

[uh_no]

Exactly. I support everything about Duke but follow football more closely because I like sports and used to play football. That's about it. Not everyone at Duke has those interests.

The expectation that more students should come watch a poor product for hours every weekend is a poor one. If you build it, they will come. And IT is definitely not there.

"uh no", congrats on making the world finals in programming my man! (not gender-specific)

I'm with you. I go to sporting events because its a lot of fun. I when I was blessed to be a student with access to basketball games, I went to every one because I had a lot of fun, and I love college basketball. I went to duke football games because I enjoy football and I knew a couple guys on the football team. I went to the track and field ACC finals when they were at duke and I knew people in the finals. I would go to drama performances when I had friends in them. I would go to people's senior concerts or dance performances when I knew them. I fully respect what it means to be a duke student and have priorities other than football. So many people spend all their waking hours during the week doing research or in the lab, or doing some other endeavor that I fully respect if they want to just get drunk on saturday and sleep. The football team doesn't show up when THEY present their research.....

What I do think is a problem is people who say "oh duke football/football culture SUCKS" and then don't show up on saturday or do anything to support the team (and there are a ton of them)....complaining about something and then not doing anyting to make it better is one of the things that most disgusts me about our society

I do my best to support people I know in any endeavor which is important to them. I was lucky enough to know some athletes and did everything possible to let them know I supported their success, especially when it only took a couple hours of my time that I would have spend not doing much anyway.

[77devil]

As if that would make a meaningful difference. In a news magazine that moves the top schools around all the time just to sell more magazines.

Not only that but other magazines have jumped in to gin up their sales. Forbes has Northwestern well above Duke.

http://www.forbes.com/top-colleges/#p_2_s_arank_

Regardless, both are excellent schools with similar profiles as is Stanford. Two have been able to put competitive football teams on the field, one has not. The question is why? I have no insight into the schools' relative admissions practices for football, but I would be surprised if there is a material difference. It seems that the Duke program is getting plenty of support in upgrading facilities and otherwise. If Coach Cut can't get it done by next season(5th year), I doubt he ever will.

[Sixthman]

To build a program, you have to establish some expectations. Mission accomplished. I was in the stands for every play last night. The Duke faithful at the game "expected" to win -- in large part because of the sales job Coach Cut has done. These faithful left disgusted, and many were loudly expressing their feelings as they left their seats. No doubt disappointment fueled their feelings, but make no mistake -- it was something more than disappointment they were expressing. Long time fans I spoke with last night described the loss as the end of the season. On the way out of Wallace Wade, I heard several people I did not know say to their friends they were not coming back this season. I shared these feelings, but wanted to sleep on it before posting. We lost to a team we should have beaten, not just a team we could have beaten. Our players made tough plays, and fewer bad plays than in many prior seasons. On the whole, the defense looked better than I have seen it play since the 2004 win over Clemson. In the second half, the running game look great! Still, we lost. We lost to a team with an interim head coach, their leader having been dismissed a couple of weeks prior to the game. Under these circumstances, we lost, Richmond having the better game plan, significantly better play calling, and fewer mental mistakes on the field. On the field -- where it really counts -- we have not improved over where we were the last time we lost to Richmond at Wallace Wade in 2009. Unsatisfactory. Where do we go from here? Expectations go down. The expectation is that we will be badly embarrassed by Stanford next week, that we have no chance of a 500 season, that we have no chance of a bowl game, that we will finish in the bottom of our division of the ACC, that having beaten Virginia three years in a row we will lose to Virginia in 2011, that we will win at most one game in the ACC, and that we have no chance to beat Carolina. Next play.

[DST Fan]

That's not the problem. The problem is assuming that there is some fundamental difference between #9 and #19.

In any case, Duke's biggest disadvantage - aside from the last two decades of abysmal football - isn't academic, it's demographic. North Carolina just doesn't put out enough football talent to support four BCS and five FBS programs. That's a problem that Stanford and Northwestern very much don't have.


Does the number of undergraduate students have an impact? Notwithstanding the similarities among the three schools, Stanford has about 9,300 undergraduates and Northwestern has about 8,500. Duke's undergraduate enrollment is 6,500. I suspect that the 500-700 additional slots each year may provide the admissions offices at the other two schools with some flexibility that Duke will never have.

[cspan37421]

it's coaching. These players are not pros, they come to us out of high school. They have to be taught the game. The younger you are, the more a good coach matters.

Look at Boise State. They built a national contender out of 3 star recruits, top-notch coaching, and a bit of thinking outside the box (some razzle-dazzle). I would suspect that by now they no longer need to rely solely on 3-star recruits - good coaching begets winning, and winning begets recruiting. They're not the only such example, either.

I am doubtful that there can be a football equivalent of the Dawkins/Alarie/Henderson/Bilas/Williams/Jackman freshman class. Even if Chris Petersen came to Duke today I'm not sure he could do that - I suspect he would need to show some winning, starting with teaching a bunch of decent players to play really well. Coaching them up. We were not outmatched physically by Richmond. We made mostly correctable mistakes in playcalling and execution - and mistakes reflect coaching, instruction, practice, etc.

It will be interesting to read what Coach Cutcliffe said post-game.

BTW, while I understand the history of Div 1 FBS against Div I FCS (formerly Div 1-AA, a term still used by some here), I do not agree with the entitlement mentality that we have a right to expect to beat any such team on that level. What magically separates the two divisions, that any team however badly coached from the former should expect to be able to drum any team, however well-coached, from the latter? It's all football, isn't it? Is there a weight limit or speed limit to Div I FCS that I don't know about? IMO, App State beating Michigan at Michigan was just the first indication that times have changed. Michigan was not a terrible team (they finished in the top 25 that year!) ... but App State was a top team in FCS. Whatever went on before, there is overlap now. I'd suggest getting used to it, and preparing for it. And as far as scheduling goes, if you want an early season win, you might be better off playing a bottom tier Div I FBS team rather than one of the better FCS teams.

[cspan37421]

Does the number of undergraduate students have an impact? Notwithstanding the similarities among the three schools, Stanford has about 9,300 undergraduates and Northwestern has about 8,500. Duke's undergraduate enrollment is 6,500. I suspect that the 500-700 additional slots each year may provide the admissions offices at the other two schools with some flexibility that Duke will never have.

Not in the case of Wake Forest, 4,400, and ACC champs not so long ago.

[Duvall]

Does the number of undergraduate students have an impact? Notwithstanding the similarities among the three schools, Stanford has about 9,300 undergraduates and Northwestern has about 8,500. Duke's undergraduate enrollment is 6,500.

It probably has an impact on fan support. Maybe on donor support as well.



I suspect that the 500-700 additional slots each year may provide the admissions offices at the other two schools with some flexibility that Duke will never have.

Why? I don't see why that would make any difference at all.

[ChillinDuke]

it's coaching. These players are not pros, they come to us out of high school. They have to be taught the game. The younger you are, the more a good coach matters.

Look at Boise State. They built a national contender out of 3 star recruits, top-notch coaching, and a bit of thinking outside the box (some razzle-dazzle). I would suspect that by now they no longer need to rely solely on 3-star recruits - good coaching begets winning, and winning begets recruiting. They're not the only such example, either.

I am doubtful that there can be a football equivalent of the Dawkins/Alarie/Henderson/Bilas/Williams/Jackman freshman class. Even if Chris Petersen came to Duke today I'm not sure he could do that - I suspect he would need to show some winning, starting with teaching a bunch of decent players to play really well. Coaching them up. We were not outmatched physically by Richmond. We made mostly correctable mistakes in playcalling and execution - and mistakes reflect coaching, instruction, practice, etc.

It will be interesting to read what Coach Cutcliffe said post-game.

Agreed. Coaching, coaching, and more coaching. Does anyone have a link to post-game comments from Cut? Very interested to hear what he said.


BTW, while I understand the history of Div 1 FBS against Div I FCS (formerly Div 1-AA, a term still used by some here), I do not agree with the entitlement mentality that we have a right to expect to beat any such team on that level. What magically separates the two divisions, that any team however badly coached from the former should expect to be able to drum any team, however well-coached, from the latter? It's all football, isn't it? Is there a weight limit or speed limit to Div I FCS that I don't know about? IMO, App State beating Michigan at Michigan was just the first indication that times have changed. Michigan was not a terrible team (they finished in the top 25 that year!) ... but App State was a top team in FCS. Whatever went on before, there is overlap now. I'd suggest getting used to it, and preparing for it. And as far as scheduling goes, if you want an early season win, you might be better off playing a bottom tier Div I FBS team rather than one of the better FCS teams.

We will just have to disagree on this. There is no sugar coating this loss. Can you find examples of FCS teams beating FBS teams? To be sure. But just look at the scores from yesterday! The vast majority of FCS teams got walloped by even mediocre FBS teams. Did any FCS team even win such a matchup yesterday (I only did a quick ACC search)?

The point I'm trying to make is simply this: I don't think the time is now to discuss FBS vs. FCS overlap. It's time to start prodding Duke football (in a constructive way). We need to win last night's game. Period. The fact that we didn't requires careful consideration.

[Wander]

Did any FCS team even win such a matchup yesterday (I only did a quick ACC search)?


Surprisingly, Oregon State lost too. Think that was the only other one though.

[Devilsfan]

I believe we (I) have bashed the staff enough. They get the message. They are professionals. I hope they have learned their leason and now maybe Coach Cut will get more involved with the offensive play calling. He's such a class act that he will probably take all the blame himself (publically). Talk about having a bad day at the office! I still wouldn't trade our HC for ANY other coach in football. If we win next week, all will be forgotten. Go Devils!

[langdonfan]

...and our running backs did too...oh yeah, and Richmond is probably going to be one of the best teams in the FCS again this season. I'm disappointed at how little all three of those things are being pointed out throughout this thread that is supposed to be about last night's game.

Somthing else I observed: Half the fans who left their seats at half time never came back and by the fourth quarter, I was watching the final minutes of a close season opener in a half full stadium.

I expected a win too, but let's be reasonable here...The problem seems to be that most Duke fans in that stadium (whether they admit it or not) hoped for, or even expected a 6 TD, 20 point blow out. That ain't happening with a football team like ours against a team like Richmond any time soon. If you want to be angry, be angry that Richmond is on the schedule. We're not good enough to schedule a high level FCS team yet. And frankly, neither are most other low to mid-level BCS team. They all risk what looks like a bad loss and for some reason Duke just keeps coming back for more. We lost to Richmond in 2009. A few weeks later we sat at 5-3, and had the ball rolled a little differently against Wake or UNC, we would have been in a bowl game.

So what if Jim Harbaugh took Stanford from 1-11 to 12-1 in 4 years? Duke and Stanford are two totally different situations as far as football is concerned. Stanford was much more established even at 1-11. Coach Cutcliffe is trying to build this football program the RIGHT WAY...and it IS happening. We have gone from a team that could barely win 1 or 2 games to averaging 4 wins per year under Coach Cut. Let's not forget what the man started out with. Although last night was dissappointing, this program is getting better and that shouldn't be overshadowed by one loss.

[arnie]

Best thing about opening night for Duke football - 1st Duke BBall game in about 2 months

[sagegrouse]

Does the number of undergraduate students have an impact? Notwithstanding the similarities among the three schools, Stanford has about 9,300 undergraduates and Northwestern has about 8,500. Duke's undergraduate enrollment is 6,500. I suspect that the 500-700 additional slots each year may provide the admissions offices at the other two schools with some flexibility that Duke will never have.

Stanford and Duke are roughly the same size. Stanford has 6,887 undergraduates (http://facts.stanford.edu/undergraduate.html). Duke has 6,244. Northwestern (http://www.ugadm.northwestern.edu/commondata/2008-09/b.htm) is, in fact, larger at 8,273.

sagegrouse

[uh_no]

.oh yeah, and Richmond is probably going to be one of the best teams in the FCS again this season.


So you're saying we should set the bar so low that we don't even have to worry about beating decent FCS teams?

we might as well cut football now....

[DU82]

...and our running backs did too...oh yeah, and Richmond is probably going to be one of the best teams in the FCS again this season. I'm disappointed at how little all three of those things are being pointed out throughout this thread that is supposed to be about last night's game.

Somthing else I observed: Half the fans who left their seats at half time never came back and by the fourth quarter, I was watching the final minutes of a close season opener in a half full stadium.

I expected a win too, but let's be reasonable here...The problem seems to be that most Duke fans in that stadium (whether they admit it or not) hoped for, or even expected a 6 TD, 20 point blow out. That ain't happening with a football team like ours against a team like Richmond any time soon. If you want to be angry, be angry that Richmond is on the schedule. We're not good enough to schedule a high level FCS team yet. And frankly, neither are most other low to mid-level BCS team. They all risk what looks like a bad loss and for some reason Duke just keeps coming back for more. We lost to Richmond in 2009. A few weeks later we sat at 5-3, and had the ball rolled a little differently against Wake or UNC, we would have been in a bowl game.

So what if Jim Harbaugh took Stanford from 1-11 to 12-1 in 4 years? Duke and Stanford are two totally different situations as far as football is concerned. Stanford was much more established even at 1-11. Coach Cutcliffe is trying to build this football program the RIGHT WAY...and it IS happening. We have gone from a team that could barely win 1 or 2 games to averaging 4 wins per year under Coach Cut. Let's not forget what the man started out with. Although last night was dissappointing, this program is getting better and that shouldn't be overshadowed by one loss.

Employee night. MAny who left at half-time were there with family, meaning younger kids with earlier bedtimes. Happens every year. Still, I saw a fair number of people without kids leaving at halftime as well.

Matt Daniels played well. The running backs, once we went past the Mike McGee playbook in the first quarter, found a lot of holes. Unfortunately, our top three running backs are hurt, Snead out indefinitely with a foot injury, and Scott with an MCL sprain. (Not sure of Thompson's injury status.) (Mike McGee playbook: up the middle, up the middle, up the middle, punt.)

The guy behind me who hasn't missed a home game since about 1968 said this was his worst loss. I'm sure he could come up with others that ultimately were worse, but that summed up the tone after the game. Hard to spin anything positive out of this one. It's not like Richmond snuck up on us, we knew what they were capable of doing on the field.

NC Central's on the schedule for 2012 and 2015, and Elon for 2014.

[langdonfan]

So you're saying we should set the bar so low that we don't even have to worry about beating decent FCS teams?

Of course I'm not saying that. Duke just should not be scheduling Richmond or App State or anyone like that at this point, especially for a home opener. That is not just a decent FCS team, it's a really good FCS program. It's just setting everyone up for a dissappointing loss. I would say the same for any other BCS team in the State of NC. It's not worth it.

[A-Tex Devil]

That's not the problem. The problem is assuming that there is some fundamental difference between #9 and #19.

In any case, Duke's biggest disadvantage - aside from the last two decades of abysmal football - isn't academic, it's demographic. North Carolina just doesn't put out enough football talent to support four BCS and five FBS programs. That's a problem that Stanford and Northwestern very much don't have.

I don't buy this. We are close enough to DC, Atlanta, Virginia etc. That talent base isn't the issue. Stanford, Northwestern, Vandy, and Rice all recruit nationally and we should too. The Rice team I watched last night would beat Duke by 20.

Cutcliffe is a great offensive mind, and I don't necessarily want to throw our defensive coaches under the bus. But we need a recruiting mastermind at this point. We need to find some 28 year old position coach that is willing to give it a go for a few years as an assistant here and literally live out of his suitcase and in the filmroom in the offseason watching high school kids. I don't get the feeling we put the effort into finding the diamonds in the rough that say Francioni and Patterson did at TCU in the early 2000s to build that program up.

I also am afraid that we aren't given the budget to recruit that way. If that is the case, it's a problem, and if we aren't willing to put everything we can into recruiting, including money that is at least proportionately equivalent to what a NW or Stanford get, we need to reevaluate whether we belong in The FBS.

[formerdukeathlete]

Does the number of undergraduate students have an impact? Notwithstanding the similarities among the three schools, Stanford has about 9,300 undergraduates and Northwestern has about 8,500. Duke's undergraduate enrollment is 6,500. I suspect that the 500-700 additional slots each year may provide the admissions offices at the other two schools with some flexibility that Duke will never have.

You are close with Northwestern. They have 8400 undergrads, but way off about Stanford; they have 6700 undergrads, which is virtually the same as Duke. Stanford and Northwestern impose higher academic requirements than Duke in Football recruiting. Cutcliffe has players with 800s math verbal who would not have been admitted to Stanford or Northwestern, and who would not have been admitted to Duke when Spurrier and Goldsmith actually won some games and went to bowls. Stanford's cutoff is basically 1000 math verbal and the team averages about 1200 math verbal, and that is with top 20 recruiting classes. Aptitude for recruiting is an issue. Academic leeway is not the problem.

[killerleft]

...and our running backs did too...oh yeah, and Richmond is probably going to be one of the best teams in the FCS again this season. I'm disappointed at how little all three of those things are being pointed out throughout this thread that is supposed to be about last night's game.

Somthing else I observed: Half the fans who left their seats at half time never came back and by the fourth quarter, I was watching the final minutes of a close season opener in a half full stadium.

I expected a win too, but let's be reasonable here...The problem seems to be that most Duke fans in that stadium (whether they admit it or not) hoped for, or even expected a 6 TD, 20 point blow out. That ain't happening with a football team like ours against a team like Richmond any time soon. If you want to be angry, be angry that Richmond is on the schedule. We're not good enough to schedule a high level FCS team yet. And frankly, neither are most other low to mid-level BCS team. They all risk what looks like a bad loss and for some reason Duke just keeps coming back for more. We lost to Richmond in 2009. A few weeks later we sat at 5-3, and had the ball rolled a little differently against Wake or UNC, we would have been in a bowl game.

So what if Jim Harbaugh took Stanford from 1-11 to 12-1 in 4 years? Duke and Stanford are two totally different situations as far as football is concerned. Stanford was much more established even at 1-11. Coach Cutcliffe is trying to build this football program the RIGHT WAY...and it IS happening. We have gone from a team that could barely win 1 or 2 games to averaging 4 wins per year under Coach Cut. Let's not forget what the man started out with. Although last night was dissappointing, this program is getting better and that shouldn't be overshadowed by one loss.

The reason the stadium ended up half full at the end of the game is EMPLOYEE NIGHT. These folks come to a game because of the bargain they get. They aren't really football fans. The score probably made very little difference to those guys. Getting the kiddies home and to bed was a bigger factor than the game itself, which was hard-fought and close enough to hold a fan's interest, coaching warts and all.

Edit: belatedly saw that someone posted an answer to this post with much the same answer before me. Sorry.

[J.Blink]

The reason the stadium ended up half full at the end of the game is EMPLOYEE NIGHT. These folks come to a game because of the bargain they get. They aren't really football fans. The score probably made very little difference to those guys. Getting the kiddies home and to bed was a bigger factor than the game itself, which was hard-fought and close enough to hold a fan's interest, coaching warts and all.

You must have been in a different stadium or been hearing different comments than I was hearing by the end of the game last night...

[killerleft]

You must have been in a different stadium or been hearing different comments than I was hearing by the end of the game last night...

Nope. Employee night is always like that. I heard the comments. I made several regarding the coaching decisions that were glaring errors and very likely cost us the ballgame. If you heard the complaints at the end of the game, I guess those comments didn't come from people who were already gone:)

[uh_no]

Of course I'm not saying that. Duke just should not be scheduling Richmond or App State or anyone like that at this point, especially for a home opener. That is not just a decent FCS team, it's a really good FCS program. It's just setting everyone up for a dissappointing loss. I would say the same for any other BCS team in the State of NC. It's not worth it.

So instead of fixing the problem and actually being good enough to beat teams that we should destroy, we just don't schedule good teams? If we can't beat richmond, then we're noot going to be beating ACC teams on a regular basis, we're not going to make a bowl.....not playing richmond isn't going to fix the fact that we're bad...

Maybe we should have Seth Greenberg come in to do our football scheduling.

[grossbus]

"Cutcliffe is a great offensive mind"

i know this is the rep, but, frankly, i have not seen much evidence of that in the last couple of years. our playbook, such as it is, seems to contract as the game goes on. the closer the game, the greater the contraction. with espn's family of networks, i have been able to see more games in the last couple of years than in the previous decade. our play calling in the 4th qtr is just mystifying to me.

[77devil]

Cutcliffe has players with 800s math verbal who would not have been admitted to Stanford or Northwestern

If true, it's an embarrassment that should not have been permitted in my opinion.


, and who would not have been admitted to Duke when Spurrier and Goldsmith actually won some games and went to bowls.

During that era Duke had several recruiting classes with 1,200 - 1,300 SAT average.

[DevilWearsPrada]

The Coach Cut Football Show is on WTVD 11 at 12 noon. His words for the Richmond game were "Disappoiinting" and "Frustrating."

[6th Man]

I wonder what this thread would have been like if Snyderwine made the 28 yarder with 1:43 left and the defense held to win the game? I don't believe Richmond is the superior team. Duke had multiple chances to make winning plays, despite not playing well and just couldn't get it done tonight. I think the time management falls on Renfree. He should be smart enough to not throw dump passes in the middle of the field in the situations he did. I guarantee you that Renfree didn't get instruction from the coaching staff to make those throws. Just really bad decisions from a QB that should know better. Cutcliffe won't throw him under the bus for that and will take the blame. Two turnovers were costly at the wrong places on the field that lead to 10 points. Injuries to running backs that were playing well. Just about everything that went wrong did.

Don't get me wrong. I was and am still mad about the outcome. I'm tired of driving 2 hours to Duke and 2 hours home to watch Duke lose. However, I'm not ready to give up on football or Cutcliffe. I think we need to see how this season plays out.

[killerleft]

I wonder what this thread would have been like if Snyderwine made the 28 yarder with 1:43 left and the defense held to win the game? I don't believe Richmond is the superior team. Duke had multiple chances to make winning plays, despite not playing well and just couldn't get it done tonight. I think the time management falls on Renfree. He should be smart enough to not throw dump passes in the middle of the field in the situations he did. I guarantee you that Renfree didn't get instruction from the coaching staff to make those throws. Just really bad decisions from a QB that should know better. Cutcliffe won't throw him under the bus for that and will take the blame. Two turnovers were costly at the wrong places on the field that lead to 10 points. Injuries to running backs that were playing well. Just about everything that went wrong did.

Don't get me wrong. I was and am still mad about the outcome. I'm tired of driving 2 hours to Duke and 2 hours home to watch Duke lose. However, I'm not ready to give up on football or Cutcliffe. I think we need to see how this season plays out.

Duke lost one minute and twenty seconds because the coaches couldn't get the play to Renfree in time TWICE. Coach Cut has already accepted blame for the end of half fiasco. It WAS Cut's fault. I think Renfree should be commended for not throwing the COACHES under a big ol' bus.

Then again, I can't see much of what Cut had to say because GoDuke has his quotes behind some "premium" wall. Now, THAT'S not his fault.

[Devilsfan]

I for one am not giving up on Duke football. I was very disapointed to hear that the blame was put squarely on the players not playing consistently for sixty minutes. I think our coaching staff didn't coach at a high level for sixty minutes. Three points at the end of the first half and we win the game. Now without our top three running backs healthy it should be an electrifying air show vs. Mr Luck and company. I get the feeling that our coaches don't think we can hang with Stanford. I think we can. On D Daniels play was great and our worst DB in 2010 looked great for the most part last night. I think our personel is overall the best I've seen in years. Go Devils!

[DST Fan]

Stanford and Duke are roughly the same size. Stanford has 6,887 undergraduates (http://facts.stanford.edu/undergraduate.html). Duke has 6,244. Northwestern (http://www.ugadm.northwestern.edu/commondata/2008-09/b.htm) is, in fact, larger at 8,273.

sagegrouse

Thanks. My mistake on Stanford. I misread Stanford's admissions statistics and used the admit number (2,340) as an estimate of the actual size of each of the four classes. I also saw 6,504 on the Duke website as the number of undergraduates.

[jimsumner]

I've deliberately waited awhile to process my thoughts about last night's game. I also haven't read any of the thread because I want to be able to articulate my thoughts as best I can without outside influence.

This might take awhile, so get comfortable.

I've been watching Duke football seize defeat out of victory since Johnson was president; Lyndon, not Andrew. So, I should be used to it by now. But I found last night's loss unusually dispiriting and frustrating, for several reasons.

The first is the manner of Duke's loss. It's one thing to lose to a team that overmatches you with some combination of speed, strength, skill, or depth.

That wasn't the case with Richmond. They're an above average FCS team. They're not the '72 Dolphins (the '72 Dolphins show up next week). Duke should have won that game by 2-3 touchdowns. But Duke gave away the game to an inferior team through a series of mental mistakes that boggles the mind.

Regular readers know that I've been a strong, vocal supporter of David Cutcliffe. And I'm a long way from getting off the train. But Duke's coaching last night simply was not up to par.

Let me elaborate.

1.Going for it on 4th down from your own territory at home in a scoreless first period is a most curious decision. If it works, you get a first down at your 40. If it doesn't you're giving away field position. The Duke D got a three-and-out but the field position Richmond's defense earned enabled them to punt Duke down inside the five and score after a turnover. If you've got a great ground game, go for it. But Duke doesn't. A normal punt and a normal return and Richmond is starting at their 25-30 in a scoreless game. What's wrong with that?

2.Duke's clock management at the end of the 1st half was abysmal. 10 seconds left, no timeouts, chip-shot field goal. You call a play that has one of two results, a touchdown or a quick pass out of the end zone, followed by a field goal. Instead Duke runs a slant-in that has no chance to score and no chance to stop the clock with a first down without a missed tackle. A horrible call. FWIW, Vernon said after the game that Duke thought it had enough time to get to the line and spike the ball. Nowhere close. Not bad execution but a bad idea.

Cut said after the game that he got greedy. I would argue he wasn't greedy enough. Go for six or kick it. Not an ineffectual, in-between.

2A. Note that Duke had burned a timeout earlier in the half to avoid a delay of game penalty. First game, I know. But a veteran QB running the same offense? Shouldn't happen. Think that timeout might have come in handy?

3.Twice Duke took the lead in the second half. Twice subsequently Duke had Richmond in a hole 3rd-and-10 on the first possession, 2nd-and-13 on the second. Get a stop, get the ball back to a hot offense with the lead and there's a good chance it's over. Twice Duke blitzes, twice they get burned for long gains and Richmond goes in and scores.

Kelby Brown said after the game that on both plays their was confusion between the LBs and the DBs as to who was supposed to do what. Again, first game but those were huge breakdowns at crucial times. Mental breakdowns.

4.Trailing by 2, Duke moves deep into Richmond territory. Snead didn't suit up, Scott is hurt, Thompson is hurt. Cut is always comparing red-zone offense to backyard football, where you let your playmakers make plays. Jay Hollingsworth brings some real positives to the team but he's the 4th-team tailback for a reason. You've got Renfree, Vernon, Varner and Helfet to try to get six but Hollingsworth gets the ball on 1st and 2nd downs.

5.D gets stop and Duke gets the ball back needing about 30-35 yards to have a realistic chance for a FG. Time for 3 passes. Hit 2 in the 15-18 yard range and you've got a real shot. First downs stop the clock, sideline patterns stop the clock, incompletions stop the clock. Every play has to stop the clock. Has to. An incompletion is better than a completion that keeps the clock running. This isn't advanced football, it's basic.

So what does Duke do? Completes a 4-yard pass to a RB that uses up most of the clock, without appreciably improving their field position. Inexplicable and inexcusable.

With one last chance to get into field-goal range, Duke completes a pass that doesn't gain enough yardage to put Snyderwine in realistic range.

Note that Duke also burned a timeout in the second half. Kinda, coulda used it late.

The second part of the equation was the blown opportunity. This was supposed to be a statement game, a forget-the-jokes, things-are-different-game. And in many respects, Duke demonstrated its real progress. Duke ran better than Richmond, passed better than Richmond and had flashes of defensive dominance; kudos to Ross Cockrell, Matt Daniels and Kelby Brown.

But the result was another visiting team celebrating at Wade.

It seems to me that Duke was playing not to lose more than playing to win. That's a subtle and subjective distinction but how else do we explain the refusual of Duke to throw the ball in the end zone at the end of the half and the end of the game? The mindset seemed to not be "let's get a touchdown" as much as "be careful, don't make a mistake." Playing not to lose. Passive to a fault.

Can Duke turn it around? Sure. Two years ago, Duke opened with a home loss to Richmond and later won at NC State. There are winnable games left. But any reasonable road map to six wins and bowl eligibility starts with a win over Richmond and that's a big opportunity wasted. It's not Labor Day yet and Duke's already in a hole.

I'm sure I'm letting my frustrations run rampant here; you shoulda seen me about 2 A.M. I'm reminded of the line about the operation being a success but the patient dying. Cutcliffe has upgraded Duke football in so many obvious ways. But turning a losing culture into a winning culture may be the hardest step of all. Duke just has to stop losing games like this or they'll be stuck in 4-8 land forever.

End of screed and back to your regular programming.

[6th Man]

Duke lost one minute and twenty seconds because the coaches couldn't get the play to Renfree in time TWICE. Coach Cut has already accepted blame for the end of half fiasco. It WAS Cut's fault. I think Renfree should be commended for not throwing the COACHES under a big ol' bus.

I respect your opinion as we are all frustrated as heck, but right before the half there is NO reason a QB with Renfree's experience should have thrown a short dump pass in the middle of the field. He has to know that you either throw it in the endzone or throw it away. I fail to see how that one play is Cutcliffe's fault. The clock was not moving on that particular play. Renfree was not waiting for a play call for this play and even if he was that doesn't matter. He just needed to find an open receiver in the endzone or throw it away. Kick a field goal...go in to the half tied. Before the play even started I'm thinking to myself just don't throw it in the middle of the field.

Now killerleft, if for any reason that was the play call and they thought there was enough time to do that and spike the ball...then I am right there with you. I just HOPE that the staff would not have told him to throw a slant in the middle. I really HOPE that wasn't the case.

[watzone]

I've deliberately waited awhile to process my thoughts about last night's game. I also haven't read any of the thread because I want to be able to articulate my thoughts as best I can without outside influence.

This might take awhile, so get comfortable.

I've been watching Duke football seize defeat out of victory since Johnson was president; Lyndon, not Andrew. So, I should be used to it by now. But I found last night's loss unusually dispiriting and frustrating, for several reasons.

The first is the manner of Duke's loss. It's one thing to lose to a team that overmatches you with some combination of speed, strength, skill, or depth.

That wasn't the case with Richmond. They're an above average FCS team. They're not the '72 Dolphins (the '72 Dolphins show up next week). Duke should have won that game by 2-3 touchdowns. But Duke gave away the game to an inferior team through a series of mental mistakes that boggles the mind.

Regular readers know that I've been a strong, vocal supporter of David Cutcliffe. And I'm a long way from getting off the train. But Duke's coaching last night simply was not up to par.

Let me elaborate.

1.Going for it on 4th down from your own territory at home in a scoreless first period is a most curious decision. If it works, you get a first down at your 40. If it doesn't you're giving away field position. The Duke D got a three-and-out but the field position Richmond's defense earned enabled them to punt Duke down inside the five and score after a turnover. If you've got a great ground game, go for it. But Duke doesn't. A normal punt and a normal return and Richmond is starting at their 25-30 in a scoreless game. What's wrong with that?

2.Duke's clock management at the end of the 1st half was abysmal. 10 seconds left, no timeouts, chip-shot field goal. You call a play that has one of two results, a touchdown or a quick pass out of the end zone, followed by a field goal. Instead Duke runs a slant-in that has no chance to score and no chance to stop the clock with a first down without a missed tackle. A horrible call. FWIW, Vernon said after the game that Duke thought it had enough time to get to the line and spike the ball. Nowhere close. Not bad execution but a bad idea.

Cut said after the game that he got greedy. I would argue he wasn't greedy enough. Go for six or kick it. Not an ineffectual, in-between.

2A. Note that Duke had burned a timeout earlier in the half to avoid a delay of game penalty. First game, I know. But a veteran QB running the same offense? Shouldn't happen. Think that timeout might have come in handy?

3.Twice Duke took the lead in the second half. Twice subsequently Duke had Richmond in a hole 3rd-and-10 on the first possession, 2nd-and-13 on the second. Get a stop, get the ball back to a hot offense with the lead and there's a good chance it's over. Twice Duke blitzes, twice they get burned for long gains and Richmond goes in and scores.

Kelby Brown said after the game that on both plays their was confusion between the LBs and the DBs as to who was supposed to do what. Again, first game but those were huge breakdowns at crucial times. Mental breakdowns.

4.Trailing by 2, Duke moves deep into Richmond territory. Snead didn't suit up, Scott is hurt, Thompson is hurt. Cut is always comparing red-zone offense to backyard football, where you let your playmakers make plays. Jay Hollingsworth brings some real positives to the team but he's the 4th-team tailback for a reason. You've got Renfree, Vernon, Varner and Helfet to try to get six but Hollingsworth gets the ball on 1st and 2nd downs.

5.D gets stop and Duke gets the ball back needing about 30-35 yards to have a realistic chance for a FG. Time for 3 passes. Hit 2 in the 15-18 yard range and you've got a real shot. First downs stop the clock, sideline patterns stop the clock, incompletions stop the clock. Every play has to stop the clock. Has to. An incompletion is better than a completion that keeps the clock running. This isn't advanced football, it's basic.

So what does Duke do? Completes a 4-yard pass to a RB that uses up most of the clock, without appreciably improving their field position. Inexplicable and inexcusable.

With one last chance to get into field-goal range, Duke completes a pass that doesn't gain enough yardage to put Snyderwine in realistic range.

Note that Duke also burned a timeout in the second half. Kinda, coulda used it late.

The second part of the equation was the blown opportunity. This was supposed to be a statement game, a forget-the-jokes, things-are-different-game. And in many respects, Duke demonstrated its real progress. Duke ran better than Richmond, passed better than Richmond and had flashes of defensive dominance; kudos to Ross Cockrell, Matt Daniels and Kelby Brown.

But the result was another visiting team celebrating at Wade.

It seems to me that Duke was playing not to lose more than playing to win. That's a subtle and subjective distinction but how else do we explain the refusual of Duke to throw the ball in the end zone at the end of the half and the end of the game? The mindset seemed to not be "let's get a touchdown" as much as "be careful, don't make a mistake." Playing not to lose. Passive to a fault.

Can Duke turn it around? Sure. Two years ago, Duke opened with a home loss to Richmond and later won at NC State. There are winnable games left. But any reasonable road map to six wins and bowl eligibility starts with a win over Richmond and that's a big opportunity wasted. It's not Labor Day yet and Duke's already in a hole.

I'm sure I'm letting my frustrations run rampant here; you shoulda seen me about 2 A.M. I'm reminded of the line about the operation being a success but the patient dying. Cutcliffe has upgraded Duke football in so many obvious ways. But turning a losing culture into a winning culture may be the hardest step of all. Duke just has to stop losing games like this or they'll be stuck in 4-8 land forever.

End of screed and back to your regular programming.

You know I am a supporter and homer as well, but my take is very similar to yours http://bluedevilnation.net/2011/09/frustrating-loss-is-an-understatement/ I guess I am baffled as were all who follow the Duke beat as we do. It's as if we lost this game out of the gate. I even elaborate on the black uniforms in my spill and think that too was a mistake. I just think you're being objective as we have to be in order to keep credibility. You simply stated your frustration and like you I was up until closer to 3 A.M. There are simply no positives from this loss and it is not okay to be okay with it.

[Kewlswim]

Hi,

Duke has played Stanford before. Even back then, Stanford was the presumptive favorite. The team went to Palo Alto where the Stanford team expected to win handily yet Duke won. (Stanford returned the favor next year at Duke.) I don't have my source Ted Mann's book "Duke Football: A story of Glory" in front of me, but I am pretty certain the Stanford team Duke beat went on to play in this little bowl called the "Rose Bowl" and had a pretty decent QB at the helm, might have been some guy named Plunkett (not sure though). Seriously, awful loss last night, good thing one game is not the season.

GO DUKE!

[hudlow]

hi,

... Good thing one game is not the season.

Go duke!


Go Duke!

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

I've tried to think this over and not react immediately following the most disappointing loss in many, many years. Thank you Jim Summner and watzone for what you've said...... right on point. So much of what happened in that game seemed like an "out of body experience." It felt as if it started when the team came out of the tunnel in those black uniforms, something Coach Cut said early on wasn't going to happen. Uncharacteristic play and uncharacteristic coaching reigned.

I haven't felt this low since some of the closing games under Carl Franks, but I'm not giving up.

[jlear]

For me the Coach Cut experiment is failure and I, unlike others here can no longer support the coaching staff. The recruiting classes are scoring out about the same as the previous ten years. The on the field product is one without precision with too many mistakes and often appearing very poorly coached. For all those that say the program has been upgraded in so many ways, I say that with Cut having two inexcusable losses to Richmond, while making a lot of noise about how much improved the program is, for me, not an upgrade at all.

In sports as in business leadership must be held accountable for results, not just for the manner in which they obtain them. Most of us would be fired with this performance. Did Cut take a difficult job? certainly, but you cannot use that as an excuse for continued poor play. Playing solid football, win or lose, is the measure of quality coaching. Please don't take my comments as me saying that I have any coaching staff answers. I just want to state why I will not be investing my time as a spectator until we can play solid football. I occasional unexpected win is not enough for me.

I support the students on the team as I would any Duke student.

Go Duke!

[Bob Green]

I just want to state why I will not be investing my time as a spectator until we can play solid football.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but I disagree with you. The fans need to stay the course. I refuse to give up on my team. The loss was bitterly disappointing, and I was in a state of disbelief and frustration last night, but in the end, the sun rose this morning.

[Devilsfan]

If this was a class at Duke and Jim Sumner had to read the various reports on last nights game and write a summary on the posts on this site he would have gotten a solid A. What's more interesting is that he is quoted as saying he did not read a single post but he still nailed it. Good work Jim. My only regret is that what he wrote wasn't totally wrong. Maybe next week or the week after. Go Devils!

[Sixthman]

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but I disagree with you. The fans need to stay the course. I refuse to give up on my team. The loss was bitterly disappointing, and I was in a state of disbelief and frustration last night, but in the end, the sun rose this morning.

I think a lot of fans are wondering if staying the course is the same as giving up. While I'm guessing Albert Einstein wasn't a college football fan, his observation that doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is a form of insanity may apply to Duke football, at least from the fans' perspective. Our culture takes sporting events way too seriously -- and I may be worse than most. After telling my friends about the improvements in the program -- and watching them roll their eyes (or worse) -- and taking my children to the game -- and telling them this year was going to be more fun because we were going to win -- and following the team in the preseason closely and with great anticipation -- I kind of felt like a fool by the end of the game last night. Of course, it's not about me, and I should grow up and get over it. Actually, I've fully recovered. But at some point, it's hard to keep going back to the games without some tangible reason to expect of a different result. I think it's put up some exciting results on the scoreboard time.

[devildeac]

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but I disagree with you. The fans need to stay the course. I refuse to give up on my team. The loss was bitterly disappointing, and I was in a state of disbelief and frustration last night, but in the end, the sun rose this morning.

The sun rose? In Seattle? Today? You sure you didn't wake up in southern California this AM, Bob?

(jk)

[buddy]

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but I disagree with you. The fans need to stay the course. I refuse to give up on my team. The loss was bitterly disappointing, and I was in a state of disbelief and frustration last night, but in the end, the sun rose this morning.

Bob,

With all due respect, Duke football has experienced 17 straight losing seasons (soon to be 18), and 21 of the last 22 (soon to be 22 of the last 23). This means that Duke has ONE winning season during the lifetimes of current Duke students (and that was when the oldest was 3.) During that period the team is 34-150 (counting last night). Those of us who have season tickets have stayed the course (and stayed the course, and stayed the course). Last night I realized that staying the course meant just drinking the Kool-Aid one more time. This team is composed almost exclusively of Cutcliffe's players, and is likely to have a worse season than Cut had with Roof's players. This is accountability time. If this team is 2-10 or 3-9, which I frankly think is realistic or optimistic, then it will be time either for Cutcliffe to make significant changes in his offensive coaches, or for him to resign. Duke wants to spend significant dollars to upgrade the facilities, and has already done so with the Paschal center. But performances like last night will simply mean more empty seats in the expanded stadium. Our players were better than Richmond's on both sides of the ball, but our coaching staff was not up to the challenge of winning a game they should have won.

[formerdukeathlete]

If true, it's an embarrassment that should not have been permitted in my opinion.



During that era Duke had several recruiting classes with 1,200 - 1,300 SAT average.

It is true, and it is unnecessary. When Cutcliffe came in, had he embraced the already pretty generous admissions guidelines (lowered for Roof), rather than pushed to have them lowered even more, he might have recruited quite a bit more talent to Duke. This is because its the more accomplished students among top BCS prospects who will actually consider Duke. And, Cutcliffe failed to offer so many of these kids his first couple of years at Duke, it was incomprehensible. Rather than screening a bit for academics among highly regarded prospects nationally and going from there (what Spurrier and Goldsmith did), Cutcliffe focused on regional kids, and then among those who seemed interested, he tried to get them in with Admissions - very little academic screening initially in deciding whom to recruit. When they were not working out academically, he pushed for admissions to take them anyway. In fact, in the 2011 class Cut had extended offers to several kids who were not projected to be NCAA eligible at the time. Admissions finally said no, and Cutcliffe was not happy. It is in a bit more of the right direction now. But, at first, it was so off. And, the lack of talent shows up on the field, in a loss to Richmond.

[OldPhiKap]

For me the Coach Cut experiment is failure and I, unlike others here can no longer support the coaching staff. The recruiting classes are scoring out about the same as the previous ten years. The on the field product is one without precision with too many mistakes and often appearing very poorly coached. For all those that say the program has been upgraded in so many ways, I say that with Cut having two inexcusable losses to Richmond, while making a lot of noise about how much improved the program is, for me, not an upgrade at all.

In sports as in business leadership must be held accountable for results, not just for the manner in which they obtain them. Most of us would be fired with this performance. Did Cut take a difficult job? certainly, but you cannot use that as an excuse for continued poor play. Playing solid football, win or lose, is the measure of quality coaching. Please don't take my comments as me saying that I have any coaching staff answers. I just want to state why I will not be investing my time as a spectator until we can play solid football. I occasional unexpected win is not enough for me.

I support the students on the team as I would any Duke student.

Go Duke!

Sorry you will miss out when the ship comes in. We'll keep a seat open for you, though.

Obviously a disappointing loss. But those happen.

I remember when we hired a little-known guy with an unspellable last name to coach the basketball team -- and we got walloped by UVa in the tourney by an embarrasing margin, and had three losing seasons. Kind of turned out okay.

Football is harder to make quick improvements than basketball, and our football program has had very little support since the 1960's. Even when Spurrier was coach (and I was a student) there was not a huge groundswell of fan support.

I am very bummed about the game, and am not a blind follower of Cut or anyone else. But if he can't do it, at some point you have to ask whether it can be done at all. I believe that we can do it -- as the examples of Stanford, Wake (sometimes), Northwestern (recently) and Vandy (sometimes) show. But even those schools rarely rip off decade-long runs of excellence.

[Acymetric]

Sorry you will miss out when the ship comes in. We'll keep a seat open for you, though.

Obviously a disappointing loss. But those happen.

I remember when we hired a little-known guy with an unspellable last name to coach the basketball team -- and we got walloped by UVa in the tourney by an embarrasing margin, and had three losing seasons. Kind of turned out okay.

Football is harder to make quick improvements than basketball, and our football program has had very little support since the 1960's. Even when Spurrier was coach (and I was a student) there was not a huge groundswell of fan support.

I am very bummed about the game, and am not a blind follower of Cut or anyone else. But if he can't do it, at some point you have to ask whether it can be done at all. I believe that we can do it -- as the examples of Stanford, Wake (sometimes), Northwestern (recently) and Vandy (sometimes) show. But even those schools rarely rip off decade-long runs of excellence.

I wasn't around at the time, how much of those 3 losing seasons was bad coaching and how much of it was simply not yet having the talent?

[Reilly]

...

Going for it on 4th down from your own territory at home in a scoreless first period is a most curious decision. If it works, you get a first down at your 40. If it doesn't you're giving away field position. ....

End of screed and back to your regular programming.

These are the only parts of your post I disagree with. The offense stunk it up and sucked the energy out of the building at the beginning, as Cut noted in his post-game comments. Cut was trying to keep the ball and get in rhythm and get back on track. One way to do that is keep the ball rather than having yet another 3 and out or 6 and out to open the game. I fully support going for it there. It's 4th and 1, w/ a I-A team against a I-AA team, and we're trying to instill more toughness and more of a running game this year. The decision was fine; execution not, in my opinion.

I agree w/ all of your other other points. Given all that went wrong, hardly call your cataloging a "screed" -- seemed measured, to me.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

I've deliberately waited awhile to process my thoughts about last night's game. I also haven't read any of the thread because I want to be able to articulate my thoughts as best I can without outside influence.

This might take awhile, so get comfortable.

I've been watching Duke football seize defeat out of victory since Johnson was president; Lyndon, not Andrew. So, I should be used to it by now. But I found last night's loss unusually dispiriting and frustrating, for several reasons.


You know I am a supporter and homer as well, but my take is very similar to yours http://bluedevilnation.net/2011/09/frustrating-loss-is-an-understatement/ I guess I am baffled as were all who follow the Duke beat as we do. It's as if we lost this game out of the gate. I even elaborate on the black uniforms in my spill and think that too was a mistake. I just think you're being objective as we have to be in order to keep credibility. You simply stated your frustration and like you I was up until closer to 3 A.M. There are simply no positives from this loss and it is not okay to be okay with it.
Jim, I absolutely love your line about Lyndon, not Andrew! And yes, you nailed it. You too, Watzone.

Now its my turn. We should have won this game by 3 touchdowns. We lost a lot of fans last night, people who were in the stands but will not be coming back, and I'm not talking about the employees who couldn't give a whit about Duke or Duke football, but Duke alums who have been sitting there for years, some with their spouses who are the "bigger" fan, but turned to that spouse and said "this is my last game. I am not coming next week." That is an actual conversation I heard from a couple, good friends of mine, who were sitting right behind me.

The game should never have come down to the last gasp field goal attempts. We should have won 4X -23. The defense acquitted themselves very well, giving this team exactly what we hoped they would, showing the improvements they needed to. The play calling, however, is/was ABYSMAL. It was last year, too. Walking out on the concourse last night I was using a "colorful" adjective modifying abysmal, it started with an "f" and ended with an "ing". I assume the offensive coordinator is the one calling the plays, and if so, he needs to go. From our first 3-and-out series with 2 ineffective running plays to the end of the first half to the end of the game, with the talent we've got at QB, wide receiver(s) and TE, all potential All ACC and All American candidates, it is inexcusable to be as conservative as we are. Anyone remember the thread last year where I suggested that I could do a better job of calling the plays and wished I could, for at least a series, for the carolina game? Remember all the grief some of you gave me for suggesting that? Do you still feel that way? I think I'll show up at the Washy Duke on Tuesday night for Coach Cut's radio show. If I can arrange my schedule to be there, I will tell him, in a nice way, what I think of the play calling, and I will use the word abysmal in my description, although the colorful modifier won't be used.

[jimsumner]

These are the only parts of your post I disagree with. The offense stunk it up and sucked the energy out of the building at the beginning, as Cut noted in his post-game comments. Cut was trying to keep the ball and get in rhythm and get back on track. One way to do that iskeep the ball rather than having yet another 3 and out or 6 and out to open the game. I fully support going for it there. It's 4th and 1, w/ a I-A team against a I-AA team, and we're trying to instill more toughness and more of a running game this year. The decision was fine; execution not, in my opinion.

I agree w/ all of your other other points. Given all that went wrong, hardly call your cataloging a "screed" -- seemed measured, to me.

Cut had an interesting comment about the beginning of the game. You probably remember when Renfree got his feet tangled up on the second play from scrimmage, threw it away and got called for grounding. Drive stalls and Duke ended up punting.

Not the ideal way to start the game, to be sure. But Cut said that Duke was shocked at not scoring on the first possession. Said you could almost feel the shock on the sidelines. That seems strange and disturbing to me. Two minutes into the game, the visitors are pinned back deep and there's no score. So, why would that be a hinge point in the game?

Perhaps I'm reading too much into this but that suggests a team with a really fragile psyche. I suspect his decision to go for it on 4th down stems from that shock but it seems way too early and way too much of an over-reaction to what really wasn't that big a deal. Good starts are nice and all that but 5 minutes into the game is awfully early to take a gamble like that. It just seems to me that for much of the game, the Duke coaches just weren't very confident in their team.

[sagegrouse]

I'm sure I'm letting my frustrations run rampant here; you shoulda seen me about 2 A.M. I'm reminded of the line about the operation being a success but the patient dying. Cutcliffe has upgraded Duke football in so many obvious ways. But turning a losing culture into a winning culture may be the hardest step of all. Duke just has to stop losing games like this or they'll be stuck in 4-8 land forever.

End of screed and back to your regular programming.

Jim:

Bravo! A great analysis. I got to watch only the first half via the renowned mountain ISP, Zirkel Wireless. It was kinda like a Ken Burns documentary -- a collection of still shots. And maybe the answer is that Dukeis allergic to Spider bites. I have seen enough of those guys with their 8,000-seat stadium to last a lifetime.

It was clear from the gitgo that the team and coaching staff didn't have their mind in the game. Richmond has no kicker. Well, we got the squib quick and took possession on the 45 yard line or so (I refuse to look up the specifics on this awful game). After a change of possession, Duke takes over inside the five yard line. Uh, ... who is the VP in charge of field position.? Can't we win the field position battle when the other team doesn't even have a place kicker?

And then it happened again! Going for it on 4th and one on our 30 yard line, and then inheriting the ball again on our five yard line.

The two fumbles were totally stupid. Yep, Renfree got hit, and I am really happy he wasn't knocked out of the game (or the season), but he had no business running in an uncontrolled fashion on his five-yard line. Take a dive, Sean! Braxton got careless -- put the ball away, Braxton! As a result, Richmond's only first half point were the direct result of Duke's stupid, stupid turnovers.

I think the coaching staff was confident that we were four TDs better than Richmond and showed the Spiders no respect, whatsoever. Decision-making on the sidelines was horrendous.

I think the players were happy that games were starting but totally failed to show up mentally. And let me get this straight: Did we lose this game because our All-ACC kicker shanked a 28-yarder? Is that really true? A choke job for all concerned.

Well, winning is habit-forming. And so is losing. Virginia, Virginia Tech, Stanford, NC State and seemingly everyone else won their Div I-AA match-ups convincingly.

sagegrouse

[Reilly]

... But Cut said that Duke was shocked at not scoring on the first possession. Said you could almost feel the shock on the sidelines. That seems strange and disturbing to me. ...
Perhaps I'm reading too much into this but that suggests a team with a really fragile psyche. I suspect his decision to go for it on 4th down stems from that shock but it seems way too early and way too much of an over-reaction to what really wasn't that big a deal. ... awfully early to take a gamble like that. .....

* glad the team expected to score on the first possession
* agree that they should not be "shocked" they didn't
* agree his decision to go for it was influenced, partly, by the bad start ... time to grab the bull by the horns and make a course correction .. nothing wrong w/ that way of thinking, to my mind ...
* here's where we part ways: going for it on 4th and 1 is not a 'gamble' ... books have been written noting that football teams should go for it much more often on 4th down; it's conventional wisdom and fear of failure that makes the 4th and 1 punt an automatic; look and see what Belichek has done in that situation ... going for it on 4th and 1 when your OL is finally a supposed strength, JT is a big strong back, and you are playing a I-AA team over which you have the talent advantage ... not a gamble ... which makes the non-execution all the more frustrating ... the decision was fine, in my opinion

[bluepenguin]

How the more things change, the more they stay the same.

[Rogue]

Disappointed:(

Will continue to watch for improvement ( NO, WATCH TO WIN :mad: )

It's coaching. Out of all the private small schools mentioned,, NW, Vanderbilt, Stanford, only Rice seems to never win in football. I know there are four other BCS programs in this state, but that's an excuse in my opinion.
Too many schools like TCU, Baylor, ND, Stanford play big boy football and can win some games. No not winners every year, but more respectable and competitive than we've been in years.
Coaches recruit..Then he has to be able to do things a little different than SMASH MOUTH FOOTBALL..

I love coach Cut's excitment and ability to be excited about DUKE FOOTBALL,, but looking as bad as we did against Richmond, goes more on the coaching than anywhere. No , not taking away the winning attitude from Richmond,, but the mistakes that have been mentioned here in this thread are , for the most part, on the coaching staff,, and this isn't their first rodeo..

Get it together FAST and don't let the wheels fall off this season before it gets started.

[DueBlevil]

I think the possible upside to this is that if it was a wake-up call for us fans, imagine how much of a wake-up call it was to the coaches and players. I really hope this doesn't turn into Alabama part II where it takes half a season to get over an arguably devastating loss. If it does, I put the full blame on the coaching staff.

I think Cut is a great talker, and going by quotes in the newspapers, etc, in trying to build up support for the program and convincing us of its progress, I think he also convinced the players they were better than they are at this point. I have read many quotes from players about how vastly improved the team is from a couple years ago, and I think that's a viewpoint that has been encouraged by the coaching staff. But even if that is true, we're not playing games against the 2008 Duke Blue Devil football team. We still are at the bottom of the ACC. Maybe not as solidly *the* worst team like before Cut, but still at the bottom. It just seems like Richmond might have been overlooked. Hence the "shock" of not scoring on the first drive. I guess it just goes to show how difficult a process it is to building that "winning culture."

You want the players to be confident and the fans to care, but I really think Cut went too far in the press about how good this team is. In 2010 Coach K continually tempered expectations for the team, explicitly saying that it was not a great team. Obviously the two situations are not exactly comparable, since Duke basketball really doesn't need hype from the coach to get people excited, while you could argue that football does. But even if you think a team IS good, you don't have to be so over-the-top.

[Acymetric]

* glad the team expected to score on the first possession
* agree that they should not be "shocked" they didn't
* agree his decision to go for it was influenced, partly, by the bad start ... time to grab the bull by the horns and make a course correction .. nothing wrong w/ that way of thinking, to my mind ...
* here's where we part ways: going for it on 4th and 1 is not a 'gamble' ... books have been written noting that football teams should go for it much more often on 4th down; it's conventional wisdom and fear of failure that makes the 4th and 1 punt an automatic; look and see what Belichek has done in that situation ... going for it on 4th and 1 when your OL is finally a supposed strength, JT is a big strong back, and you are playing a I-AA team over which you have the talent advantage ... not a gamble ... which makes the non-execution all the more frustrating ... the decision was fine, in my opinion

Most of the thought behind going for it on 4th takes field position into account. We should not have gone for it.

[jimsumner]

* glad the team expected to score on the first possession
* agree that they should not be "shocked" they didn't
* agree his decision to go for it was influenced, partly, by the bad start ... time to grab the bull by the horns and make a course correction .. nothing wrong w/ that way of thinking, to my mind ...
* here's where we part ways: going for it on 4th and 1 is not a 'gamble' ... books have been written noting that football teams should go for it much more often on 4th down; it's conventional wisdom and fear of failure that makes the 4th and 1 punt an automatic; look and see what Belichek has done in that situation ... going for it on 4th and 1 when your OL is finally a supposed strength, JT is a big strong back, and you are playing a I-AA team over which you have the talent advantage ... not a gamble ... which makes the non-execution all the more frustrating ... the decision was fine, in my opinion

I've seen the stats on 4th down conversions. But field position has to be a big variable here. Going for it on the other team's 35 is a lot different than going for it on your 35. Field position changes the risk/reward ratio.

In all candor, the spot seemed a tad squirrely to me and Duke couldn't have missed by more than a silly centimeter. But we all know what they say about horseshoes and hand grenades.

[chrishoke]

This wasn't my biggest disappointment in 50 years staunchly supporting Duke football, but it was unquestionably the latest.

The play calling and the offensive execution in the first quarter made me think the coaches and the players were overconfident. I just don't see how that could be. Duke football - overconfident? Against a Richmond team that embarressed us twice in a row in the last five years? Now that's bad, inexcusable coaching and preparation.

[loldevilz]

I've seen the stats on 4th down conversions. But field position has to be a big variable here. Going for it on the other team's 35 is a lot different than going for it on your 35. Field position changes the risk/reward ratio.

In all candor, the spot seemed a tad squirrely to me and Duke couldn't have missed by more than a silly centimeter. But we all know what they say about horseshoes and hand grenades.

I totally agree. I was at the game and I was absolutely shocked that we were going for it because our defense was playing well and our offense was struggling. It just seemed like a really stupid move to me. The ball was at our own 30 yard line in the first quarter of a 0-0 game. What is there to gain? Kick the ball away and try to get the ball back in good field position. Honestly, that was really the major factor killing us in the first quarter. We had terrible field position after that.

But hey, I guess its nice to say that we lost by 6 last time and we lost by 2 this time. Its a slight improvement. Maybe in two years we can actually beat a good FCS team.

[mkline09]

The play calling, however, is/was ABYSMAL. It was last year, too. Walking out on the concourse last night I was using a "colorful" adjective modifying abysmal, it started with an "f" and ended with an "ing". I assume the offensive coordinator is the one calling the plays, and if so, he needs to go. From our first 3-and-out series with 2 ineffective running plays to the end of the first half to the end of the game, with the talent we've got at QB, wide receiver(s) and TE, all potential All ACC and All American candidates, it is inexcusable to be as conservative as we are. Anyone remember the thread last year where I suggested that I could do a better job of calling the plays and wished I could, for at least a series, for the carolina game? Remember all the grief some of you gave me for suggesting that? Do you still feel that way? I think I'll show up at the Washy Duke on Tuesday night for Coach Cut's radio show. If I can arrange my schedule to be there, I will tell him, in a nice way, what I think of the play calling, and I will use the word abysmal in my description, although the colorful modifier won't be used.


I agree with you there. I kind of think if they could go back the coaches would of had Desmond Scott take a knee at the 1 on his 29 yard touchdown run just so they could run the fake handoff draw play with Connette or Boone. Just no creativity at all on offense.

Defense though showed flashes of improvment. Helfet dropped too many balls though. Real good player it just was indicative of what kind of night it was.

[jlear]

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but I disagree with you. The fans need to stay the course. I refuse to give up on my team. The loss was bitterly disappointing, and I was in a state of disbelief and frustration last night, but in the end, the sun rose this morning.

Unfortunately I was not surprised by last night as Cut's teams have continued to play poor fundamental football. The poor play has continued to be blamed on lower talent than the competition, but in the case of Richmond we lost with better talent across the board. The best thing Cut has done is move the start times on non-TV games to 7pm so we can tailgate. When you make the big bucks you need to produce results, for me time is up. I didn't expect to be in bowl games every year, but I expect to beat the mighty Richmond Spiders.

Why do fans need to stay to course? I don't owe it to anyone to blindly waste time year after year. In my opinion, this team should have beaten Richmond by 3 touchdowns with the starters only playing the 1/2 half.

I love college football and luckily I have a number of other teams I can spend my time on some with much lower recruiting classes than Duke and yet they still win.

[Mike Corey]

I like and respect Coach Cutcliffe. He has proven himself, over the course of his entire career, to be a very good football coach. Duke has ponied up resources--at long last--to help him bring in a staff and a slough of resources that any aspiring program needs, even if those aspirations are mere bowl eligibility.

What maddens a football dunce like me is how such smart football minds can make such poor decisions.

I am crestfallen for the Duke players. I join you all in just wanting them to win.

[rthomas]

Will the last Duke football fan jumping off the ship after the first game, please turn out the lights.

[DueBlevil]

Redacted quote

[Redacted text]

But anyways I did read this on the ESPN site and it made me feel a little better:

GameDay crew final thoughts
LOU HOLTZ
"It's a typical opening week with upsets all over the place. Richmond beating Duke, Sacramento State beating Oregon State and South Florida winning at Notre Dame. Upsets occur in Week 1 because teams typically make more mistakes in their first game than in any other game of the season. You can't tell what kind of team you have in Week 1. In 1995 when I was coaching at Notre Dame, we lost our season opener to Northwestern. People thought we were going to have a bad year, but we went on to win nine of our last 10 regular-season games, and Northwestern won the Big Ten and went to the Rose Bowl. Teams make their biggest improvement from Week 1 to Week 2."

[cbfx3]

Richmond was a MUST win game. Any way you slice this year, Richmond should have been a win.

[watzone]

Here is our first ever BDN Duke-Richmond Highlights Video. A lot of people thought the shot to Renfree was helmet to helmet, what do you think? http://bluedevilnation.net/2011/09/bdn-richmond-vs-duke-highlights/

[Newton_14]

Here is our first ever BDN Duke-Richmond Highlights Video. A lot of people thought the shot to Renfree was helmet to helmet, what do you think? http://bluedevilnation.net/2011/09/bdn-richmond-vs-duke-highlights/

I sat in the end zone on that end, and thought it was helmet to helmet live, and was convinced it was Helmet to Helmet when they showed the replay on the big screen. However, my buddy sitting right beside me thought Renfree's Helmet hit the defender's chest.

If you put a gun to my head and forced me to get it right, I would stand by my opinion it was Helmet to Helmet. I also thought the play where Desmond got hurt was a tremendously dirty play. Desmond was down, then the guy tries to rip his head off rolling him over with both legs pinned underneath. Could not tell if he got the facemask or not, but I felt it should have been called unnecessary roughness, whether the face mask was grabbed or not.

Losing Desmond and then Thompson, killed us on that last drive. Then we go away from what worked earlier, and leave both Connette and Boone on the sidelines, and handoff twice to Hollingsworth at the 5 yard line and the game on the line. You either have to give Renfree two shots to get it done through the air, or bring in one of the running QB's who had both scored from similar distance earlier in the half. Giving it to the 4th String Tailback 2 times in a row with the game on the line, was mind-boggling to me.

[Duvall]

I sat in the end zone on that end, and thought it was helmet to helmet live, and was convinced it was Helmet to Helmet when they showed the replay on the big screen. However, my buddy sitting right beside me thought Renfree's Helmet hit the defender's chest.

If you put a gun to my head and forced me to get it right, I would stand by my opinion it was Helmet to Helmet. I also thought the play where Desmond got hurt was a tremendously dirty play. Desmond was down, then the guy tries to rip his head off rolling him over with both legs pinned underneath. Could not tell if he got the facemask or not, but I felt it should have been called unnecessary roughness, whether the face mask was grabbed or not.

It hasn't even been two years - you can't expect Richmond to have already forgotten everything Mike London taught them.

[devildeac]

I remain encouraged at least by the fact that there are >200 posts in this thread. I arrived late from a wedding outside of Winston-Salem and was able to witness some of the 3rd quarter and all of the excruciating 4th quarter and found very few positives to take away from this loss. If late comers to this tread don't want to read all the posts, Jim Sumner's brutally painful and honest keys are in his post 10-15 above this late entry. I will however be there with a large group (Bob Green included!) early Saturday afternoon anticipating one the major upsets of this century so far as we beat the Cardinal in WW.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Will the last Duke football fan jumping off the ship after the first game, please turn out the lights.
We were literally the first to arrive, setting up our grills at 7am. We were literally the last to go home, leaving Devil's Alley at 1am. We made sure the lights were still lit as we drove home; we will need them to guide us in next Saturday. Ugly loss, but there is still another game to play and another tailgate to enjoy. GO DUKE!

2046

[formerdukeathlete]

I sat in the end zone on that end, and thought it was helmet to helmet live, and was convinced it was Helmet to Helmet when they showed the replay on the big screen. However, my buddy sitting right beside me thought Renfree's Helmet hit the defender's chest.

If you put a gun to my head and forced me to get it right, I would stand by my opinion it was Helmet to Helmet. I also thought the play where Desmond got hurt was a tremendously dirty play. Desmond was down, then the guy tries to rip his head off rolling him over with both legs pinned underneath. Could not tell if he got the facemask or not, but I felt it should have been called unnecessary roughness, whether the face mask was grabbed or not.

Losing Desmond and then Thompson, killed us on that last drive. Then we go away from what worked earlier, and leave both Connette and Boone on the sidelines, and handoff twice to Hollingsworth at the 5 yard line and the game on the line. You either have to give Renfree two shots to get it done through the air, or bring in one of the running QB's who had both scored from similar distance earlier in the half. Giving it to the 4th String Tailback 2 times in a row with the game on the line, was mind-boggling to me.

No question the hit on Renfree was helmet to helmet. Our coaches apparently thought that we could block Hollingsworth's way into the endzone. How is it that Richmond was bigger and stronger on both sides of the ball? They play with 20 fewer scholarships. In addition, few of their recruits receive D1 let alone BCS scholarship offers. The talent gap between Duke and Richmond is significant. Richmond played dirty Football, but overall their interim coach out-prepared, out-coached ours, and in the recent past apparently also out-recruited Duke.

One thing I think helps when you are going onto the field against a team with a reputation of playing dirty football, being bigger and stronger on the line. Stanford neutralized Beamer (sometimes dirty) Ball in the Orange Bowl. I hope we survive this Saturday's game without further injuries. Stanford wont play dirty, but they will be very tough.

[dukediv2011]

I had the privilege to speak with a former Blue Devil (graduate from last year) after the game. He said the following about the last drive, "It's the same thing that has been happening for years. We let the little mistakes get us in a bind and then when it comes to crunch time, time to score, something bad always happens to us. Tonight that happened to be that Juwan Thompson gets crushed in his legs on one play, and then Kyle Hill (starting left tackle) gets crushed too. So then you are forced to put in a freshman (Tacoby Cofield) at a position to which he isn't accustomed and he gets eaten up by the linebacker and Jay Hollingsworth is stopped behind the line of scrimmage. It just sucks man. This team is the best that Duke has had in over 10 years and for us to lose a game like this can be a crusher."

I agree wholeheartedly with his assessment. Duke made some bonehead errors (fumbling and neglecting to kick the field goal at the end of the half) early in the game, but all in all we were right there at the end of the game and had the opportunity to win with 1:36 left. Unfortunately it didn't go our way, but that doesn't mean that this Duke team is incapable of winning six more games this year.

Our defense was DRASTICALLY improved from last year. I remember a couple of times that Ross Cockrell and Matt Daniels made plays in the defensive backfield that they wouldn't have made last year. Without the terrible play of the offense in the first half Duke probably would have only allowed 0-3 points in the first half. Our linebacking group, led by Kelby Brown, is MUCH improved over last year. Finally our D-Line is getting much better. We rotated in eight guys Saturday night that deserved to be on the field based on play, not merely because we had bodies.

The defense gave up three big time plays on 3rd down. But if I remember correctly, Duke fans all last year wanted the defense to be more aggressive. Well, folks, the fact is that if you want aggressive play by the defense then you want blitzes. On all three plays, Duke sent both linebackers on blitzes and every time they hurried the quarterback into a dump down play which resulted in big gains. But, the fact remains, Duke was much more aggressive on the defensive side of the ball and they didn't play cover defense all night because they are much improved.

The hiccups in the kicking game are inexcusable. Reports have said that the hold was terrible and it may have been, but Snyderwine is a GREAT kicker. He knew, going into the game, that he had to be prepared for the new holder to have some issues. He wasn't and took responsibility for it and I guarantee that he doesn't miss another field goal within 30 yards for the rest of the year. It will not happen.

For those who are upset at Cut, I totally understand. He is man enough to shoulder much of the blame for this loss and is willing to do so. But don't give up on these men or the coaching staff. Duke football teams from the years preceding Cut would have lost this game by 20+ points. Cut's teams are progressing each year and we all need to be patient. Rome wasn't built in a day, neither is a football program. I have 100% faith in Cut as a football coach and I truly think that by the time that his career at Duke is finished, that Duke's program will be a perennial bowl team.

So, be mad about this atrocity for a couple of days. But, when Saturday comes, be in Durham and support these young men and these coaches with everything that you've got. I know I'll be there!

GO DUKE! BEAT THE CARDINAL!

[Ima Facultiwyfe]

Yep. Even this old grandmother sitting in the stands could see and understand there was plenty of talent on the field, but not enough intelligence on the offensive coaching staff to win this game. It's a little late in their careers to be having to learn such basic knowledge of the game. Worrisome to say the least. To think Cutcliffe has such faith in these guys is unsettling.

Love, Ima

and PS, I'm tired of hearing about the Mannings. What have you done for me lately?

[CDu]

I agree wholeheartedly with his assessment. Duke made some bonehead errors (fumbling and neglecting to kick the field goal at the end of the half) early in the game, but all in all we were right there at the end of the game and had the opportunity to win with 1:36 left. Unfortunately it didn't go our way, but that doesn't mean that this Duke team is incapable of winning six more games this year.

I think six wins is now extremely unrealistic. We have 4 realistically winnable games (@BC, Tulane, @FIU, Wake Forest). We need to win all of those and then hope for a substantial upset against GT or @UVa.

Or, looking from the other perspective: we have 4 games that aree almost certainly losses (Stanford, FSU, Va Tech, @Miami). We'd have to go 6-1 in the remaining 7 games (with 4 of those 7 games on the road) to get to 6 wins.

If we'd won on Saturday, I'd have felt that our chances for 6 wins were reasonable. We'd have 1 win in hand and would need to pull only one big upset. Now, with a home loss to one of the 3 worst teams on our schedule, 6 wins seems pretty outlandish.

[blazindw]

I think six wins is now extremely unrealistic. We have 4 realistically winnable games (@BC, Tulane, @FIU, Wake Forest). We need to win all of those and then hope for a substantial upset against GT or @UVa.

Or, looking from the other perspective: we have 4 games that aree almost certainly losses (Stanford, FSU, Va Tech, @Miami). We'd have to go 6-1 in the remaining 7 games (with 4 of those 7 games on the road) to get to 6 wins.

If we'd won on Saturday, I'd have felt that our chances for 6 wins were reasonable. We'd have 1 win in hand and would need to pull only one big upset. Now, with a home loss to one of the 3 worst teams on our schedule, 6 wins seems pretty outlandish.

We've beaten UVa 3 years in a row...I place that as still a winnable game. For us to have a chance at getting the momentum to get 6 wins out of this season, we must emerge from September at least 2-2. BC on the road is beatable, Tulane for Homecoming is beatable. Stanford will be a stretch, but remember that it was only just 4 seasons ago that Stanford was 40-point underdogs to USC and one of the worst teams in the country before shocking them on the road 24-23. Anything can happen if our boys come out fired up and Stanford views this as a walkthrough.

[CDu]

We've beaten UVa 3 years in a row...I place that as still a winnable game. For us to have a chance at getting the momentum to get 6 wins out of this season, we must emerge from September at least 2-2. BC on the road is beatable, Tulane for Homecoming is beatable. Stanford will be a stretch, but remember that it was only just 4 seasons ago that Stanford was 40-point underdogs to USC and one of the worst teams in the country before shocking them on the road 24-23. Anything can happen if our boys come out fired up and Stanford views this as a walkthrough.

UVa has a second-year coach who is bringing in a lot of good recruits, and they have that game at home. It's a winnable game for us, but I wouldn't call it a likely win on the road.

Anything less than 2-2 and we have basically a 0% chance of getting to 6 wins. I'd say we need to be 3-2 after the first five to have any real shot at 6 wins. Basically, all of the "winnable" games are now must-win games.

Anything can happen, but it's going to take some shocking upsets for it to happen.

[ChillinDuke]

I think six wins is now extremely unrealistic. We have 4 realistically winnable games (@BC, Tulane, @FIU, Wake Forest). We need to win all of those and then hope for a substantial upset against GT or @UVa.

Yes.


Stanford will be a stretch ...

Not to beat a dead horse nor put words in your mouth, but when I hear the phrase "It's a stretch" I generally think of around 10% probability. Duke's chances of beating Stanford are far less than this.

I will cheer Duke on this weekend and every weekend, in every sport and endeavor. But I think it's more appropriate to root for a strong showing. Some grit, some nice offense, some nice stops, maybe break a return. These sort of things. Keep the game respectable. (A la - a showing that doesn't resemble Alabama). To be even thinking upset at this stage of the Duke Football rebuilding/Cutcliffe Era, it's just not reasonable yet IMHO. Especially considering we just lost to Richmond.

Just trying to keep things reasonable around here. I feel a lot of the reason the football bandwagon has such a hard time growing is that expectations are just too high and unrealistic. Small goals are what to root for. Accomplish this and then you go for more next time. To say "Rome wasn't built in a day" (which is said a lot on this thread and re: Duke Football) means we should not be expressing the kind of goal next week where Duke could beat Stanford. If it happens, FANTASTIC! But to think this is even possible is to think Joe Schmo could be voted President next November. Shouldn't he run for town supervisor first?

Root for/hope for/publicize an idea that Duke has even a remote chance at beating Stanford, and when it doesn't happen (or god forbid another Alabama-esque game happens) the bandwagon shrinks that much more.

$0.01 (50% off since it's Labor Day). Go Duke!

- Chillin

[Devilsfan]

I say "Shock the World!". Beat Stanford. I don't think Coach Cut nor his staff is going into this game assuming it's a "L". Let's all get behind our team and show them the support they deserve. I am proud that we are building a team the proper way. Thugless, players with the highest integrity, good students, etc. I support Coach Cut and his mission. It is going to take time and we're staying out of the headlines unlike our misguided friends in Chapel Hill embarrassing their school and their teammates. Go Devils!

[J.Blink]

"... This team is the best that Duke has had in over 10 years and for us to lose a game like this can be a crusher."

It's somewhat strange to me that I've heard so many people state this as fact (including Cut?) before a single game was even played. Not people saying that this team COULD be the best, but saying that it is in fact the best. Hope this isn't a case of oversold expectations. I had thought this might be somewhat of a middling year simply because we lost so much experience on the defensive end from last year.

No doubt in my mind from some of the flashes of talent on Saturday that this team has some speed and some guns. Beat Stanford! Nothing would make me happier than for this team to indeed be the best in a long time!

[Acymetric]

It's somewhat strange to me that I've heard so many people state this as fact (including Cut?) before a single game was even played. Not people saying that this team COULD be the best, but saying that it is in fact the best. Hope this isn't a case of oversold expectations. I had thought this might be somewhat of a middling year simply because we lost so much experience on the defensive end from last year.

No doubt in my mind from some of the flashes of talent on Saturday that this team has some speed and some guns. Beat Stanford! Nothing would make me happier than for this team to indeed be the best in a long time!

How many starters did we lose? It wasn't that many.

[DueBlevil]

It's somewhat strange to me that I've heard so many people state this as fact (including Cut?) before a single game was even played. Not people saying that this team COULD be the best, but saying that it is in fact the best. Hope this isn't a case of oversold expectations.

Yeah this is what I have been saying too--I understand where Cut is going in terms of confidence, but I hope he is able to instill confidence without instilling a sense of expectation or entitlement in terms of what this season will bring. I think this team was expecting to win this game, expecting to go to a bowl this year, rather than understanding upgraded talent is only as good as the effort, planning, and execution that go with it.

[OldPhiKap]

I had the privilege to speak with a former Blue Devil (graduate from last year) after the game. He said the following about the last drive, "It's the same thing that has been happening for years. We let the little mistakes get us in a bind and then when it comes to crunch time, time to score, something bad always happens to us. Tonight that happened to be that Juwan Thompson gets crushed in his legs on one play, and then Kyle Hill (starting left tackle) gets crushed too. So then you are forced to put in a freshman (Tacoby Cofield) at a position to which he isn't accustomed and he gets eaten up by the linebacker and Jay Hollingsworth is stopped behind the line of scrimmage. It just sucks man. This team is the best that Duke has had in over 10 years and for us to lose a game like this can be a crusher."

I agree wholeheartedly with his assessment. Duke made some bonehead errors (fumbling and neglecting to kick the field goal at the end of the half) early in the game, but all in all we were right there at the end of the game and had the opportunity to win with 1:36 left. Unfortunately it didn't go our way, but that doesn't mean that this Duke team is incapable of winning six more games this year.

Our defense was DRASTICALLY improved from last year. I remember a couple of times that Ross Cockrell and Matt Daniels made plays in the defensive backfield that they wouldn't have made last year. Without the terrible play of the offense in the first half Duke probably would have only allowed 0-3 points in the first half. Our linebacking group, led by Kelby Brown, is MUCH improved over last year. Finally our D-Line is getting much better. We rotated in eight guys Saturday night that deserved to be on the field based on play, not merely because we had bodies.

The defense gave up three big time plays on 3rd down. But if I remember correctly, Duke fans all last year wanted the defense to be more aggressive. Well, folks, the fact is that if you want aggressive play by the defense then you want blitzes. On all three plays, Duke sent both linebackers on blitzes and every time they hurried the quarterback into a dump down play which resulted in big gains. But, the fact remains, Duke was much more aggressive on the defensive side of the ball and they didn't play cover defense all night because they are much improved.

The hiccups in the kicking game are inexcusable. Reports have said that the hold was terrible and it may have been, but Snyderwine is a GREAT kicker. He knew, going into the game, that he had to be prepared for the new holder to have some issues. He wasn't and took responsibility for it and I guarantee that he doesn't miss another field goal within 30 yards for the rest of the year. It will not happen.

For those who are upset at Cut, I totally understand. He is man enough to shoulder much of the blame for this loss and is willing to do so. But don't give up on these men or the coaching staff. Duke football teams from the years preceding Cut would have lost this game by 20+ points. Cut's teams are progressing each year and we all need to be patient. Rome wasn't built in a day, neither is a football program. I have 100% faith in Cut as a football coach and I truly think that by the time that his career at Duke is finished, that Duke's program will be a perennial bowl team.

So, be mad about this atrocity for a couple of days. But, when Saturday comes, be in Durham and support these young men and these coaches with everything that you've got. I know I'll be there!

GO DUKE! BEAT THE CARDINAL!

If anyone missed this post, please read. Spot dead on.

The key question is how everyone -- team, staff, fans -- bounce back. We can't let this tank the year. There's plenty of schedule in front of us, and we've made it a bit tougher road. So, time to man up. (No offense, DiBD and others).

Hit the Cardinal hard, take it to them. Our House.

[rocketeli]

Reading many posts about potential/expectations/size etc.

Interesting data (all numbers approximate as off web)

Number of 4 year private colleges/universities in the US 1845
number of these that play in BCS 16 (less than 1%)

The number with undergrad enrollments less than 10,000 11

The list by enrollment with 10 year won-lost record in football
Tulsa 2987 67-60
Rice 3485 47-73
WFU 4412 62-60
Duke 6578 22-95
Vanderbilt 6831 33-84
Sanford 6878 54-64
TCU 6961 98-27
SMU 7000 38-82
Tulane 7803 43-85
Notre Dame 8363 68-54
Northwestern 8425 57-61

Overall Duke has the worst record but it is worth noting that prior to Coach Cut they were 10-71 and since 12-24--which although not great, buts them in the Rice, Vandy, SMU, Tulane area in terms of performance
only 4 schools had a overall winning record, and only 1 TCU has an exceptional record.
Anyone else have more thoughts on the above?

[OZZIE4DUKE]

When Mike McGee was coach, back in the "good ol' days" of mediocre of 5-6 records, there was a very popular cheer that eliminated from the student section (actually there were two cheers, but I mean the one that was not "Fire McGee!")
Throw the ball! Throw the ball! Throw the damn ball!

That is how we will beat Stanford on Saturday, plus special teams play, getting several turnovers and a couple of key stops. A total team effort, great execution and a little good luck!

[rthomas]

A total team effort, great execution and a little good luck!

Luck will be with the other team.

[sagegrouse]

Reading many posts about potential/expectations/size etc.

Interesting data (all numbers approximate as off web)

Number of 4 year private colleges/universities in the US 1845
number of these that play in BCS 16 (less than 1%)

The number with undergrad enrollments less than 10,000 11

The list by enrollment with 10 year won-lost record in football


Tulsa 2987 67-60
Rice 3485 47-73
WFU 4412 62-60
Duke 6578 22-95
Vanderbilt 6831 33-84
Sanford 6878 54-64
TCU 6961 98-27
SMU 7000 38-82
Tulane 7803 43-85
Notre Dame 8363 68-54
Northwestern 8425 57-61


Overall Duke has the worst record but it is worth noting that prior to Coach Cut they were 10-71 and since 12-24--which although not great, buts them in the Rice, Vandy, SMU, Tulane area in terms of performance
only 4 schools had a overall winning record, and only 1 TCU has an exceptional record.
Anyone else have more thoughts on the above?

Here's another view, which should produce a more readable table:



School Pop. Wins Losses Ave.
Tulsa 2,987 67 60 0.528
Rice 3,485 47 73 0.392
WFU 4,412 62 60 0.508
Duke 6,578 22 95 0.188
Vandy 6,831 33 84 0.282
Stanf. 6,878 54 64 0.458
TCU 6,961 98 27 0.784
SMU 7,000 38 82 0.317
Tulane 7,803 43 85 0.336
N. Dame 8,363 68 54 0.557
N'west. 8,425 57 61 0.483

Ave/Tot 6,338 589 745 0.442


Duke 6,578 22 95 0.188
Vandy 6,831 33 84 0.282
SMU 7,000 38 82 0.317
Tulane 7,803 43 85 0.336
Rice 3,485 47 73 0.392
Stanf. 6,878 54 64 0.458
N'west. 8,425 57 61 0.483
WFU 4,412 62 60 0.508
Tulsa 2,987 67 60 0.528
N. Dame 8,363 68 54 0.557
TCU 6,961 98 27 0.784


The first table is sorted by enrollment; the second by winning percentage. Duke is as much an outlier (negative) as TCU (positive).

The correlation coefficient (ooohh!!) for enrollment and winning percentage is -0.036 -- or essentially "not correlated."

Thanks, Rocketeli, for digging up the data -- it always seem to make the discussions better.

sagegrouse

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Luck will be with the other team.
Andrew Luck will be on Stanford's side, good luck will be on Duke's!

[dukediv2011]

Andrew Luck will be on Stanford's side, good luck will be on Duke's!

This!

[pbc2]

BDN's Monday Morning QB (http://bluedevilnation.net/2011/09/monday-morning-quarterback-a-blue-monday-for-duke-football-fans/) looks at the questions from Duke's disappointing loss to Richmond.

[shellz]

I thought we looked good, much better than previous years...probably not as well as when Thad was a Senior. We had a slow start from our QB and offense in general, no down field plays, bad kicking, and some how the middle of the field was wide open on all our blitzes on 3rd and longs. Not to mention the injuries to our RBs...expectations need to be lowered, this is Duke football...there's a reason we've only had a handful of winning seasons. Some of you are acting like we're FSU or Miami. Steve Spurrier isn't stepping through that door, nor is any coach bettr than Cutcliffe. you play the hands you're dealt and hopefully you get some wins and attract better talent and that's how you build a football program...it's not a 3 year thing.

[throatybeard]

Virginia, Virginia Tech, Stanford, NC State and seemingly everyone else won their Div I-AA match-ups convincingly.

Except Oregon State. Oregeon State fail.

I've got to think that we're the only IA school to lose to the same IAA squad thrice, consecutively, all at home. Like, has Wake Forest ever lost three straight to Appalachian? There's probably not a database for this sort of thing.

PS, Great post Rocketeli.

[Acymetric]

I thought we looked good, much better than previous years...probably not as well as when Thad was a Senior. We had a slow start from our QB and offense in general, no down field plays, bad kicking, and some how the middle of the field was wide open on all our blitzes on 3rd and longs. Not to mention the injuries to our RBs...expectations need to be lowered, this is Duke football...there's a reason we've only had a handful of winning seasons. Some of you are acting like we're FSU or Miami. Steve Spurrier isn't stepping through that door, nor is any coach bettr than Cutcliffe. you play the hands you're dealt and hopefully you get some wins and attract better talent and that's how you build a football program...it's not a 3 year thing.

I'm not convinced that is true, especially considering an HC is only as good as his coordinators. Maybe our next HC isn't quite the coach that Cut is (don't think this is necessarily true), but I bet the staff would be improved.

Don't get me wrong, we have a few really good assistants (Ron Middleton comes to mind) but I don't even think we have a top 10 staff within the conference right now from top to bottom.

[peloton]

Andrew Luck will be on Stanford's side, good luck will be on Duke's!

"Good...bad...we're the guys with Renfree" - (apologies to the 'Army of Darkness' scriptwriter).

Dukediv2011 and OldPhiKap, I could not agree with you two more. Not to embarrass you guys or anything, but you definitely epitomize the diehard spirit of being a true fan. While we're all certainly frustrated and bitterly disappointed by Saturday's loss (and this is in no way meant to demean the Spiders' admirable program), as alumni or fans of Duke we simply can't give up on the team after just one loss. I'll continue to support Duke football through the bad times as well as good times. Sat night was a microcosm of various things that have plagued Duke football for decades but we need to give Cutcliffe his due for improvements so far in the program. I believe he deserves the 3(?) years left on his contract...especially in light of the fact that Duke football has had little continuity in regard to the head coaching position due to the revolving door. This season isn't over (not by a longshot)!

[sagegrouse]

I'm not convinced that is true, especially considering an HC is only as good as his coordinators. Maybe our next HC isn't quite the coach that Cut is (don't think this is necessarily true), but I bet the staff would be improved.

Don't get me wrong, we have a few really good assistants (Ron Middleton comes to mind) but I don't even think we have a top 10 staff within the conference right now from top to bottom.



Let's get one thing straight. If we have reasonable talent -- which I think we do -- Duke has the ability to win a number of games on the schedule without Knute Rockne, Bear Bryant or Steve Spurrier walking through the locker room door. Duke has an experienced, professional, and very able college football coaching staff. We lost to a team on Saturday that was 2-3 TDs weaker. This was a TEAM effort: questionnable coaching decisions in a few instances, some bad luck, uninspired play and decision-making by the offense, mistakes on defense as well, and an unimaginable missed FG by our All-ACC kicker from inside 30 yards. Everybody has bad and good days -- it's awful when everyone has bad days at the same time.

And credit to Richmond, which had the confidence from past wins against Duke. (I still think we should get tested for "spider" allergies.)

One bad game is one bad game. We'll get better, and we'll find out if "better" is good enough.

sagegrouse

[Acymetric]

Let's get one thing straight. If we have reasonable talent -- which I think we do -- Duke has the ability to win a number of games on the schedule without Knute Rockne, Bear Bryant or Steve Spurrier walking through the locker room door. Duke has an experienced, professional, and very able college football coaching staff. We lost to a team on Saturday that was 2-3 TDs weaker. This was a TEAM effort: questionnable coaching decisions in a few instances, some bad luck, uninspired play and decision-making by the offense, mistakes on defense as well, and an unimaginable missed FG by our All-ACC kicker from inside 30 yards. Everybody has bad and good days -- it's awful when everyone has bad days at the same time.

And credit to Richmond, which had the confidence from past wins against Duke. (I still think we should get tested for "spider" allergies.)

One bad game is one bad game. We'll get better, and we'll find out if "better" is good enough.

sagegrouse

But we've had questionable offensive coaching and questionable defensive recruiting since [before] Cut got here. Neither is being addressed. That is where a lot of frustration comes from.

[DueBlevil]

But we've had questionable offensive coaching and questionable defensive recruiting since [before] Cut got here. Neither is being addressed. That is where a lot of frustration comes from.

Last game aside, has the offensive coaching been questionable since Cut got here? It seems to me that the offensive playcalling has generally been pretty solid in the past couple years, so I tend to see this past game as an aberration rather than the rule.

[uh_no]

Last game aside, has the offensive coaching been questionable since Cut got here? It seems to me that the offensive playcalling has generally been pretty solid in the past couple years, so I tend to see this past game as an aberration rather than the rule.

I have to disagree. I thought with the new staff we'd be done with passes in the flat and futile runs up the middle....but no

then bringing in connette every time we were in the red zone last year so he could run the ball

there were times in the past couple years when we've looked downfield in the passing game and been wildly successful.....I'm not a great football mind, but it seems to me like there's way too much of calling plays that get us nowhere and not nearly enough of calling plays that play to our strengths.....with the team we have.... we should be passing the ball so much more than we do.....and not little dump offs for .5 yds

[dukediv2011]

I have to disagree. I thought with the new staff we'd be done with passes in the flat and futile runs up the middle....but no

then bringing in connette every time we were in the red zone last year so he could run the ball

there were times in the past couple years when we've looked downfield in the passing game and been wildly successful.....I'm not a great football mind, but it seems to me like there's way too much of calling plays that get us nowhere and not nearly enough of calling plays that play to our strengths.....with the team we have.... we should be passing the ball so much more than we do.....and not little dump offs for .5 yds

I think you have good comments about throwing downfield, however, if you don't set up those long passes with short passes and runs then they aren't going to be there. Teams know that Duke is going to throw the ball. Our running game (actual rushes and short passes in the backfield) really has to set up opportunities for the big plays. Also, I heard a lot of people around me who were upset about the amount of short passes and runs, but IIRC people all over this board and others that I have looked at over the past few years, everyone wanted more quality runs to set up the passing game. Our running game looked superb (albeit against a Richmond defense).

I don't know if anyone else noticed it, but Richmond had a couple of uncommonly HUGE safeties. They reminded me of the safeties from Miami, VT, or Alabama. Brandon Braxton is our biggest receiver and he was much smaller than those safeties. It's really, really difficult to stretch the field with monsters like that who can cover a lot of ground, but I would have loved to see a couple of shots like you.

Last part of my rant, Richmond had something to prove. Much like UNC against JMU, Richmond had a huge chip on their shoulders after their coach quit last week after his 2nd DUI. Duke should've had a chip on their shoulder too, but they didn't use it to their advantage.

I would be ecstatic to see Duke beat Stanford this week. Although I don't expect a win, like I did against Richmond, I wouldn't be surprised for Duke (especially the offense) to use this tough loss to their advantage next week and pull the upset.

[loldevilz]

I have to disagree. I thought with the new staff we'd be done with passes in the flat and futile runs up the middle....but no

then bringing in connette every time we were in the red zone last year so he could run the ball

there were times in the past couple years when we've looked downfield in the passing game and been wildly successful.....I'm not a great football mind, but it seems to me like there's way too much of calling plays that get us nowhere and not nearly enough of calling plays that play to our strengths.....with the team we have.... we should be passing the ball so much more than we do.....and not little dump offs for .5 yds

I would say that its not so much the play calling, although clock management and mental errors were terrible. After we calmed down the offense marched down the field on almost every possession. The running game and the passing game both were effective.

The one problem I did have was taking the ball out of Renfree's hands in the red zone. I think it is really undermining the confidence of the quarterback. Coach K always says put the ball in the hands of your best playmakers and let them make plays. It seems like Cut isn't allowing Renfree to do that.

[bluepenguin]

...expectations need to be lowered, this is Duke football...there's a reason we've only had a handful of winning seasons. Some of you are acting like we're FSU or Miami. Steve Spurrier isn't stepping through that door, nor is any coach bettr than Cutcliffe. you play the hands you're dealt and hopefully you get some wins and attract better talent and that's how you build a football program...it's not a 3 year thing.
Why should expectations be lowered? What do you mean "this is Duke football?" Duke football has a storied past. Duke is the only school ever to go an entire regular season unbeaten AND unscored on.
I don't think expectations should be lowered. We should continue to have high expectations and expect the team to also have the same.
FYI, this is not a 3 year thing. This has been going on for decades. How many winning seasons have we had in the past 25 years? And I believe there are ways to get another Steve Spurrier to walk through the door, if the school really wanted to.

[duke09hms]

I think you have good comments about throwing downfield, however, if you don't set up those long passes with short passes and runs then they aren't going to be there. Teams know that Duke is going to throw the ball. Our running game (actual rushes and short passes in the backfield) really has to set up opportunities for the big plays. Also, I heard a lot of people around me who were upset about the amount of short passes and runs, but IIRC people all over this board and others that I have looked at over the past few years, everyone wanted more quality runs to set up the passing game. Our running game looked superb (albeit against a Richmond defense).

I don't know if anyone else noticed it, but Richmond had a couple of uncommonly HUGE safeties. They reminded me of the safeties from Miami, VT, or Alabama. Brandon Braxton is our biggest receiver and he was much smaller than those safeties. It's really, really difficult to stretch the field with monsters like that who can cover a lot of ground, but I would have loved to see a couple of shots like you.

Last part of my rant, Richmond had something to prove. Much like UNC against JMU, Richmond had a huge chip on their shoulders after their coach quit last week after his 2nd DUI. Duke should've had a chip on their shoulder too, but they didn't use it to their advantage.

I would be ecstatic to see Duke beat Stanford this week. Although I don't expect a win, like I did against Richmond, I wouldn't be surprised for Duke (especially the offense) to use this tough loss to their advantage next week and pull the upset.

Yeah I get that you need to run the ball and throw some short passes to set up the longer passing game. But Saturday night, we hardly ever threw any pass attempt longer than 15 yards. I almost got the feeling that our team and coaches thought they had the game won by just showing up and were just using this opportunity to fine-tune the running game. Especially in our offensively-wasted first half, we couldn't have gotten the ball to our playmakers (Varner and Vernon) more than a handful of times.

I'm also not a football genius, but I found our red-zone offense atrocious both Saturday night and last year. Putting in Connette to run the offense is telegraphing the next plays as run plays, leaving our best playmakers (Renfree, Varner, Vernon) either on the bench or as blockers. I especially hated it last year when Sean would take us on a long 70-yd drive to their 15-yd line only to be taken out for Connette to predictably run the ball 3 times against a stacked defense, gain 5 yards, then have Will save us with a FG. Why hamstring an explosive offense? Makes no sense. Connette has to display at least SOME passing acumen before this package can be effective.

Let's go Duke. I was hoping to come back for Stanford but a wedding is conflicting. Honestly, I would be ecstatic to lose by less than 3 TDs and no major injuries. I was watching the Richmond game with a few Dukies on espn3 in Boston, and we were thinking maybe it's a good thing we had so many injuries (hopefully nothing major) against Richmond so they would be held out of the Stanford game and not get crushed. Did so many of our guys really get roughed up by a FCS team? Like really? . . . sigh

[TruBlu]

Last game aside, has the offensive coaching been questionable since Cut got here? It seems to me that the offensive playcalling has generally been pretty solid in the past couple years, so I tend to see this past game as an aberration rather than the rule.

Actually, I seem to recall that the play calling has been questioned since Cut & Roper arrived. The main complaint in their tenure has been that the offense is too predictable: runs on 1st and 2nd downs (even when trailing in games) then having to pass on 3rd and long, using the short passing game.

There was speculation on the board that the reason for sticking with the short passing game was due to our offensive line not being able to protect the QB long enough for a deep pattern to develop. This year our offensive line is improved, so I think it is just the Cut/Roper's preferred style of play. It needs to change.

I agree with others in this thread that sometimes you have to throw the ball in order to establish the run. This is especially true if you do not have a good/proven running attack.

[DueBlevil]

And I believe there are ways to get another Steve Spurrier to walk through the door, if the school really wanted to.

What can we offer besides more money? And even then, how could we justify outspending the top programs to obtain the top coaches?

[TruBlu]

When Mike McGee was coach, back in the "good ol' days" of mediocre of 5-6 records, there was a very popular cheer that eliminated from the student section (actually there were two cheers, but I mean the one that was not "Fire McGee!")
Throw the ball! Throw the ball! Throw the damn ball!

That is how we will beat Stanford on Saturday, plus special teams play, getting several turnovers and a couple of key stops. A total team effort, great execution and a little good luck!



Thanks for the unpleasant memory OZ. I, too, was in the stands during Mike (one yard and a cloud of dust) McGee's tenure. I think he was the first Duke football coach to bring on Tourette's Syndrome for Duke football fans.

[dukediv2011]

Yeah I get that you need to run the ball and throw some short passes to set up the longer passing game. But Saturday night, we hardly ever threw any pass attempt longer than 15 yards. I almost got the feeling that our team and coaches thought they had the game won by just showing up and were just using this opportunity to fine-tune the running game. Especially in our offensively-wasted first half, we couldn't have gotten the ball to our playmakers (Varner and Vernon) more than a handful of times.

I'm also not a football genius, but I found our red-zone offense atrocious both Saturday night and last year. Putting in Connette to run the offense is telegraphing the next plays as run plays, leaving our best playmakers (Renfree, Varner, Vernon) either on the bench or as blockers. I especially hated it last year when Sean would take us on a long 70-yd drive to their 15-yd line only to be taken out for Connette to predictably run the ball 3 times against a stacked defense, gain 5 yards, then have Will save us with a FG. Why hamstring an explosive offense? Makes no sense. Connette has to display at least SOME passing acumen before this package can be effective.

Let's go Duke. I was hoping to come back for Stanford but a wedding is conflicting. Honestly, I would be ecstatic to lose by less than 3 TDs and no major injuries. I was watching the Richmond game with a few Dukies on espn3 in Boston, and we were thinking maybe it's a good thing we had so many injuries (hopefully nothing major) against Richmond so they would be held out of the Stanford game and not get crushed. Did so many of our guys really get roughed up by a FCS team? Like really? . . . sigh

Good post. Overall I think that Varner and Vernon touched the ball 15 times (combined in the game). I don't know about the first half.

As for the redzone offense-- I thought it was really good except for the penultimate drive (missed 28 yard field goal). We scored two touchdowns on the other two times in the redzone. That is really good. Connette and Boone are skilled athletes and good passers. I think that it was smart by the Offensive Coordinator to use those two for running plays in the redzone because he didn't want to give away the other stuff that we will be using later this season. They both worked...I don't think we can question that play calling.

Finally about injuries... Richmond played pretty dirty and they were extremely physical. If Duke wants to win against Stanford (and other teams like that) they have to be more physical than their opponent without playing dirty. I think we see an extremely energized team this weekend and they will handle the pressure of a big team coming to Durham much better than they handled Alabama last year.

[Duke_92]

If anyone missed this post, please read. Spot dead on.

The key question is how everyone -- team, staff, fans -- bounce back. We can't let this tank the year. There's plenty of schedule in front of us, and we've made it a bit tougher road. So, time to man up. (No offense, DiBD and others).

Hit the Cardinal hard, take it to them. Our House.

I'm with OldPhiKap. I felt as upset as anyone (short of the players and staff) about going down to Richmond. As usual I couldn't sing in church on Sunday because I was hoarse from cheering. But I'll be out there next Saturday tailgating hopefully by 10am and I'll be hoarse again next Sunday. Bring on the Cardinal (or the Steelers or the Patriots or anyone else).

[duke09hms]

Good post. Overall I think that Varner and Vernon touched the ball 15 times (combined in the game). I don't know about the first half.

As for the redzone offense-- I thought it was really good except for the penultimate drive (missed 28 yard field goal). We scored two touchdowns on the other two times in the redzone. That is really good. Connette and Boone are skilled athletes and good passers. I think that it was smart by the Offensive Coordinator to use those two for running plays in the redzone because he didn't want to give away the other stuff that we will be using later this season. They both worked...I don't think we can question that play calling.

Finally about injuries... Richmond played pretty dirty and they were extremely physical. If Duke wants to win against Stanford (and other teams like that) they have to be more physical than their opponent without playing dirty. I think we see an extremely energized team this weekend and they will handle the pressure of a big team coming to Durham much better than they handled Alabama last year.

Yes, we scored 2 TDs in the red-zone, which would be awesome if it weren't out of 4 trips to the RZ. Last year, a huge problem the offense had was scoring red zone TDs. We had a 51% RZ touchdown rate last year, "good" for 11th in the ACC (http://dukechronicle.com/article/missed-opportunities-cost-duke). So Saturday night's 50% is hardly "really good", more like even worse than last year. Many many people, including this board, hated the Connette running QB RZ package - since Connette can't pass, it tips our hand to the D that we're going to run the ball. Defense stacks the box with 8+, likely stuffs the 3 rushes, we settle for the FG. Best example that comes to mind is the Maryland game last year, I think we came out hot, got a turnover or two, and lead 9-0 after 3 trips deep into the RZ with Connette at the controls. Go on to lose 21-16. Given our porous defense, we cannot be settling for FGs.

We have a potent offense, well at least we did last year. Why stop what has been working well moving us down the field, keep the ball out of our best playmakers at WR/QB and hand it to a one-dimensional QB who has shown limited passing skills? Not drinking the haterade on Connette here, I love the way he runs, but it is not good for the team to be so predictable in the RZ. It can hardly be good for Sean's confidence either to have the offense taken out of his hands almost every trip to the RZ.

[dukediv2011]

Yes, we scored 2 TDs in the red-zone, which would be awesome if it weren't out of 4 trips to the RZ. Last year, a huge problem the offense had was scoring red zone TDs. We had a 51% RZ touchdown rate last year, "good" for 11th in the ACC (http://dukechronicle.com/article/missed-opportunities-cost-duke). So Saturday night's 50% is hardly "really good", more like even worse than last year. Many many people, including this board, hated the Connette running QB RZ package - since Connette can't pass, it tips our hand to the D that we're going to run the ball. Defense stacks the box with 8+, likely stuffs the 3 rushes, we settle for the FG. Best example that comes to mind is the Maryland game last year, I think we came out hot, got a turnover or two, and lead 9-0 after 3 trips deep into the RZ with Connette at the controls. Go on to lose 21-16. Given our porous defense, we cannot be settling for FGs.

We have a potent offense, well at least we did last year. Why stop what has been working well moving us down the field, keep the ball out of our best playmakers at WR/QB and hand it to a one-dimensional QB who has shown limited passing skills? Not drinking the haterade on Connette here, I love the way he runs, but it is not good for the team to be so predictable in the RZ. It can hardly be good for Sean's confidence either to have the offense taken out of his hands almost every trip to the RZ.

I can't argue with this post. I want use to be aggressive too. However, I will point out that we scored 2 touchdowns when Connette and Boone were in the redzone and zero with Renfree in the redzone. Running in the redzone works much better than passing because of the tight space. I don't think we can question the play calling on scored touchdowns. We can question the play calling when we don't score using this package, but it has 100% success so far this year.

[devildeac]

When Mike McGee was coach, back in the "good ol' days" of mediocre of 5-6 records, there was a very popular cheer that eliminated from the student section (actually there were two cheers, but I mean the one that was not "Fire McGee!")
Throw the ball! Throw the ball! Throw the damn ball!

That is how we will beat Stanford on Saturday, plus special teams play, getting several turnovers and a couple of key stops. A total team effort, great execution and a little good luck!


Luck will be with the other team.


Andrew Luck will be on Stanford's side, good luck will be on Duke's!

Oooh, now if this were at CIS, the Crazies could point at the Stanford bench and cheer: Bad Luck. And then at the Duke bench and chant: Good Luck.:D

[devildeac]

Good post. Overall I think that Varner and Vernon touched the ball 15 times (combined in the game). I don't know about the first half.

As for the redzone offense-- I thought it was really good except for the penultimate drive (missed 28 yard field goal). We scored two touchdowns on the other two times in the redzone. That is really good. Connette and Boone are skilled athletes and good passers. I think that it was smart by the Offensive Coordinator to use those two for running plays in the redzone because he didn't want to give away the other stuff that we will be using later this season. They both worked...I don't think we can question that play calling.

Finally about injuries... Richmond played pretty dirty and they were extremely physical. If Duke wants to win against Stanford (and other teams like that) they have to be more physical than their opponent without playing dirty. I think we see an extremely energized team this weekend and they will handle the pressure of a big team coming to Durham much better than they handled Alabama last year.

Interesting that both you and FDA mentioned Richmond playing dirty. I arrived late and don't have an good grasp of how you would define their dirty plan. Serious question and not trying to be a wise acre.