WBB - Losing T S-O and other top-level talent

[stillcrazie]

So the rumors about Trish Stafford-Odom turned out to be true. While the article on the front page claims "we never liked her anyway," the fact is that she brought premier talent to Duke over the past couple of years. Also, we lost another recruiter to Louisville. I am very concerned about this loss of top-level talent and the future of the program. As far as I could tell, recruitment - along with defense - was our strength, not Coach P's in-game play calling.

Also, going over to your rival is obviously making a statement that things did not end well. I am wondering if anyone has any insight into why we are losing good people, and losing them in a very bad way.

[hudlow]

Looks like some non-compete clauses might be in order for new hires...

[Acymetric]

Looks like some non-compete clauses might be in order for new hires...

Pretty sure that is extremely rare in coaching. Maybe the solutuon would be to figure out what is making our assistants want to leave.

[miramar]

Pretty sure that is extremely rare in coaching. Maybe the solution would be to figure out what is making our assistants want to leave.

The whole thing is a bit strange, but I don't know if this is a trend or if the two of them had individual reasons for leaving. I'm not sure if the we never liked her comment is ironic or if there is something behind it, but for all I know they offered TSO a big raise or she couldn't pass up the offer to work with someone as charming as Sylvia.

[hudlow]

Pretty sure that is extremely rare in coaching. Maybe the solutuon would be to figure out what is making our assistants want to leave.


True, It wasn't clear, I was suggesting a non-compete clause would at least be appropriate within the conference. I don't think it's very ethical to go over to your biggest rival. Once again...follow the money.

Carolina's ethics as of late are certainly not exactly an example of what's to be desired in college sports. They'll do anything and hire anyone...

hud

[killerleft]

I have heard some hints from people that Coach McCallie is hard to work for. I certainly don't want to hear from anyone who still harbors a resentment because Duke "let go" Coach Goestenkors. She left of her own accord. And it wasn't her fault Duke didn't hire an ex-Dukie as coach, either.

But, yes, I would like to know why Odom was unliked by many here. Attitude problem? Poisonous personality causing discontent within the program? Too tall? After all, she's certainly turned into an ogre now.

[stillcrazie]

The whole thing is a bit strange, but I don't know if this is a trend or if the two of them had individual reasons for leaving. I'm not sure if the we never liked her comment is ironic or if there is something behind it, but for all I know they offered TSO a big raise or she couldn't pass up the offer to work with someone as charming as Sylvia.

I have no doubt it was ironic and probably based on the fact that she is going to UNC. I am also pretty sure that there would be much more outrage if it were Wojo or Collins defecting, and people would demand to know what was going on behind the scenes. T S-O was the best recruiter we had and gave me hope for the future of this team. I would not be surprised to see a power shift toward the hideous, light colored blue in the next 2-3 years.

[nocilla]

I have no doubt it was ironic and probably based on the fact that she is going to UNC. I am also pretty sure that there would be much more outrage if it were Wojo or Collins defecting, and people would demand to know what was going on behind the scenes. T S-O was the best recruiter we had and gave me hope for the future of this team. I would not be surprised to see a power shift toward the hideous, light colored blue in the next 2-3 years.

I doubt it would happen within 2-3 years. Duke just brought in 2 great recruiting classes and have a pretty good start to the 2012 class. Unless Elizabeth Williams turns out to be 1-and-done, Duke should be pretty comfortable for the next 3 years or so.

[crdaul]

What's up with this? Why would a great recruiter want to go from Duke to work with Sylvia Hatchell?

[devildeac]

The whole thing is a bit strange, but I don't know if this is a trend or if the two of them had individual reasons for leaving. I'm not sure if the we never liked her comment is ironic or if there is something behind it, but for all I know they offered TSO a big raise or she couldn't pass up the offer to work with someone as charming as Sylvia.

Don't overlook Sylvia's sartorial splendor either:rolleyes:.

[DukeBlueNikeShox]

I have heard some hints from people that Coach McCallie is hard to work for. I certainly don't want to hear from anyone who still harbors a resentment because Duke "let go" Coach Goestenkors. She left of her own accord. And it wasn't her fault Duke didn't hire an ex-Dukie as coach, either.

But, yes, I would like to know why Odom was unliked by many here. Attitude problem? Poisonous personality causing discontent within the program? Too tall? After all, she's certainly turned into an ogre now.

Judging by her personal twitter page, she seems to be very petulant, tacky, and lacks professionalism. For starters, whatever problems you have at the workplace or with your boss, you don't air it on a public forum for the world to see. It shows that you lack loyalty and respect for your university that you are representing. If I'm a coach or a parent, I would really look at this and say: "Is this who I want to hire? Is she going to treat me the same way if things go bad here?!" Coach P has done no better by engaging in the banter.

There's no doubt that Sylvia is hoping to get a 2-for-1 deal w/ TSO's niece, 6'7" Imani Stafford (who is also the sister of Javele McGhee and daughter of Pam McGhee)...

[SmartDevil]

If the Duke community is puzzled (and someone anxious) about what's going on with the WBB, how can it be expected that potential recruits in the future won't feel even more puzzled and uneasy?

I think whatever problems the program has--if any--need to be identified and addressed now not later.

One quick way to pretty much cut the legs off the speculation about TSO, why she left, what the impact will be, etc. ... might be to expeditiously hire someone as a senior assistant with a GREAT record for recruiting.

[stillcrazie]

If the Duke community is puzzled (and someone anxious) about what's going on with the WBB, how can it be expected that potential recruits in the future won't feel even more puzzled and uneasy?

I think whatever problems the program has--if any--need to be identified and addressed now not later.

One quick way to pretty much cut the legs off the speculation about TSO, why she left, what the impact will be, etc. ... might be to expeditiously hire someone as a senior assistant with a GREAT record for recruiting.

According to the Herald-Sun article linked in the article on the front page, she hired an assistant from Wake Forest who used to work with her, I think at MSU. Not impressed.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Honestly, I think the "we never her liked her much comment" is completely classless. She literally changed the face of our recruiting from the moment she got to Durham, and did a great job landing some incredible classes. Hopefully, building on what she started, we can continue the recruiting success. But if those with short memories will look back before her arrival, Coach P's detractors biggest complaint was recruiting ability.
As far as her going to the heels, that's completely classless too. But I loved having TSO in Durham.

[stillcrazie]

Honestly, I think the "we never her liked her much comment" is completely classless. She literally changed the face of our recruiting from the moment she got to Durham, and did a great job landing some incredible classes. Hopefully, building on what she started, we can continue the recruiting success. But if those with short memories will look back before her arrival, Coach P's detractors biggest complaint was recruiting ability.
As far as her going to the heels, that's completely classless too. But I loved having TSO in Durham.

CB&B,

Completely agree. I just don't think there are that many recruiters like her out there. She out recruited Pat Summitt for Eliz Williams and a point guard for 2013 - forget her name, but we just got a verbal from her. Let's see if she sticks to that verbal.

[SmartDevil]

According to the Herald-Sun article linked in the article on the front page, she hired an assistant from Wake Forest who used to work with her, I think at MSU. Not impressed.

Wel, I'm not sure that shows very good judgment by P and her supervisors in the administration.

If we're "concerned" that it wasn't the right thing for UNC to hire one of our staff, why did we turn around and do the same thing with conference rival Wake Forest. At the least this is a public relations blunder whether the new recruiter is extremely talented or not.

[stillcrazie]

Wel, I'm not sure that shows very good judgment by P and her supervisors in the administration.

If we're "concerned" that it wasn't the right thing for UNC to hire one of our staff, why did we turn around and do the same thing with conference rival Wake Forest. At the least this is a public relations blunder whether the new recruiter is extremely talented or not.

I'm less concerned with what UNC did. Who knows, maybe TSO approached them. I want to know why we didn't do everything we could to keep her.

[Duvall]

According to the Herald-Sun article linked in the article on the front page, she hired an assistant from Wake Forest who used to work with her, I think at MSU. Not impressed.

Candace Jackson was hired from Wake Forest to replace Samantha Williams, who left Duke in May to become an assistant at Louisville. I don't believe Duke has hired anyone yet to replace Stafford-Odom.

[Indoor66]

I'm less concerned with what UNC did. Who knows, maybe TSO approached them. I want to know why we didn't do everything we could to keep her.

What evidence do you have that we did not "do everything we could to keep her"?

[Duvall]

I doubt it would happen within 2-3 years. Duke just brought in 2 great recruiting classes and have a pretty good start to the 2012 class. Unless Elizabeth Williams turns out to be 1-and-done, Duke should be pretty comfortable for the next 3 years or so.

Early entry isn't a serious concern - it's not even possible for the WNBA - but transfers and decommitments are always a possibility.

[killerleft]

What evidence do you have that we did not "do everything we could to keep her"?

Yeah! And has it occurred to anyone that the school you recruit for may be just as important as who you are? Duke would seem to be a great place for any recruit with a mind toward post-college employment AND great basketball tradition, maybe the best of both worlds. Post-grad basketball probably doesn't resonate with female recruits like it does for the men.

[MCFinARL]

Judging by her personal twitter page, she seems to be very petulant, tacky, and lacks professionalism. For starters, whatever problems you have at the workplace or with your boss, you don't air it on a public forum for the world to see. It shows that you lack loyalty and respect for your university that you are representing. If I'm a coach or a parent, I would really look at this and say: "Is this who I want to hire? Is she going to treat me the same way if things go bad here?!" Coach P has done no better by engaging in the banter.

There's no doubt that Sylvia is hoping to get a 2-for-1 deal w/ TSO's niece, 6'7" Imani Stafford (who is also the sister of Javele McGhee and daughter of Pam McGhee)...

Where have you seen Coach P "engaging in the banter" with Stafford-Odom? The press accounts of Stafford-Odom leaving have had "no comment" from Duke, and Coach P's twitter has had no mention of S-O or any controversy in the last month, at least that I can find.

[BD80]

Where have you seen Coach P "engaging in the banter" with Stafford-Odom? The press accounts of Stafford-Odom leaving have had "no comment" from Duke, and Coach P's twitter has had no mention of S-O or any controversy in the last month, at least that I can find.

I wondered at that as well, I would think Coach P would be above the "banter." But to me, the "no comment" speaks volumes. I would have expected some sort of recognition for what she has done for the program and best wishes in the future.

[MCFinARL]

I wondered at that as well, I would think Coach P would be above the "banter." But to me, the "no comment" speaks volumes. I would have expected some sort of recognition for what she has done for the program and best wishes in the future.

I agree--but if things really did end badly (which it appears they may have), having no comment may be an appropriate response (even if not the "best" response), where exchanging snarky comments would not be.

I noticed a couple of tweets from Stafford-Odom within the last day or two in which she complained about not being allowed to greet her current recruiting class at Duke (I think the freshmen arrived yesterday). I don't have any insight into what usually happens in college basketball coaching, but it would seem to me that if you had already accepted a job at your school's arch rival, it wouldn't necessarily be customary for the school to make sure you were incorporated in plans for welcoming the new freshmen, even if you had been the point person on recruiting them. Am I wrong on this?

[killerleft]

McFinARL says:

"I noticed a couple of tweets from Stafford-Odom within the last day or two in which she complained about not being allowed to greet her current recruiting class at Duke (I think the freshmen arrived yesterday)."

Why would a UNC coach be given a chance to greet Duke's incoming freshmen? This is laughable, no matter who TSO was. She forfeited that stuff. And besides, it was never her class. Those talented young student-athletes chose to be Blue Devils, not TSOdomites!!!!!!!!!

[miramar]

I agree--but if things really did end badly (which it appears they may have), having no comment may be an appropriate response (even if not the "best" response), where exchanging snarky comments would not be.

I noticed a couple of tweets from Stafford-Odom within the last day or two in which she complained about not being allowed to greet her current recruiting class at Duke (I think the freshmen arrived yesterday). I don't have any insight into what usually happens in college basketball coaching, but it would seem to me that if you had already accepted a job at your school's arch rival, it wouldn't necessarily be customary for the school to make sure you were incorporated in plans for welcoming the new freshmen, even if you had been the point person on recruiting them. Am I wrong on this?

I don't have all the facts (in reality I have none), but it is a shame that several relationships appear to have ended badly in WBB, including Emily Waner and one recruit whose scholarship was withdrawn. Maybe it's all coincidence or misunderstanding, but it's truly unfortunate that it has occurred with a player, a recruit, and now a coach.

Her tweets complain twice that she wasn't "ALLOWED" to see them, which seems over the top on her part. I'm sure Coach P didn't get a restraining order and I don't think that campus police were on the lookout, not to mention that they are all a phone call away. The last thing you want is an opposing coach to visit a player and say, "Well, if you ever want to talk or if there is anything I can ever help you with..." No matter what, if you go to a rival, there will be consequences and that can't be a surprise to anyone.

[stillcrazie]

I don't have all the facts (in reality I have none), but it is a shame that several relationships appear to have ended badly in WBB, including Emily Waner and one recruit whose scholarship was withdrawn. Maybe it's all coincidence or misunderstanding, but it's truly unfortunate that it has occurred with a player, a recruit, and now a coach.

Her tweets complain twice that she wasn't "ALLOWED" to see them, which seems over the top on her part. I'm sure Coach P didn't get a restraining order and I don't think that campus police were on the lookout, not to mention that they are all a phone call away. The last thing you want is an opposing coach to visit a player and say, "Well, if you ever want to talk or if there is anything I can ever help you with..." No matter what, if you go to a rival, there will be consequences and that can't be a surprise to anyone.

Yes, and why is she surprised? I am disappointed to lose one of the best recruiters in the country, but you go to our rivals and then are surprised when you are told not to interact with the freshmen? Come on.

[hudlow]

Carolina will always have to wonder... ,knowing how they got TSO, that she's capable of such behavior, ... will she eventually "do it" to the Baby Blue someday...?

I'd watch her closely.

[laxbluedevil]

When Goestenkors was on top of the world at Duke, undefeated, just lost in OT in the national final, brought in 4 straight #1 classes, I became more of a WBB fan than even MBB. Duke MBB was having problems in the sweet 16s but had won 3 titles already. WBB had yet to win it all but just seemed so first class in every way. G would often double up other ACC teams in final score, rebounds, shooting percentage, assists, while forcing twice as many turnovers, fouls, etc. It was just a beautiful game on both ends of the court, fast breaks, inside, outside, offense, defense. Now it's hard to watch Duke WBB. What could McCallie have done with 4 straight #1 classes, guess we'll never know? I guess if we won national titles seemingly every year, we'd be UNC or Stanford. Did anybody else become more of a fan of Duke WBB than MBB at any time? Just when I get excited about WBB an amazing coach leaves for a worse program, why?

[uh_no]

Just when I get excited about WBB an amazing coach leaves for a worse program, why?

$$$$$$$

[chrishoke]

Texas is not a worse WBB Program.

[jv001]

When Goestenkors was on top of the world at Duke, undefeated, just lost in OT in the national final, brought in 4 straight #1 classes, I became more of a WBB fan than even MBB. Duke MBB was having problems in the sweet 16s but had won 3 titles already. WBB had yet to win it all but just seemed so first class in every way. G would often double up other ACC teams in final score, rebounds, shooting percentage, assists, while forcing twice as many turnovers, fouls, etc. It was just a beautiful game on both ends of the court, fast breaks, inside, outside, offense, defense. Now it's hard to watch Duke WBB. What could McCallie have done with 4 straight #1 classes, guess we'll never know? I guess if we won national titles seemingly every year, we'd be UNC or Stanford. Did anybody else become more of a fan of Duke WBB than MBB at any time? Just when I get excited about WBB an amazing coach leaves for a worse program, why?

I have to admit it's hard to watch Duke WBB in it's current state. Too many missed layups, bad ball handling and not much end to end play on offense. I have no problem with the defense and rebounding. We have that part of the game down, but offense is another story. GoDuke!

[JG Nothing]

$$$$$$$

No offense, but you really do not know what you are talking about.

[hudlow]

No offense, but you really do not know what you are talking about.

Please enlighten us.

[uh_no]

No offense, but you really do not know what you are talking about.




The night Conradt retired, Texas officials made it clear they would be willing to pay for a top-notch coach. Conradt earned $550,000 a year. While Goestenkors' salary at Duke is not a public record, it was believed the private school wasn't likely to match a high offer from the Longhorns.

Hope that cleared things up.....but I guess I don't know what I'm talking about.

[Kedsy]

I guess if we won national titles seemingly every year, we'd be UNC or Stanford.

As far as I'm aware, UNC has won a total of one (1) national title in women's basketball, in 1994. Stanford has won two (2), but none (0) since their last title in 1992. So what are you talking about?


Did anybody else become more of a fan of Duke WBB than MBB at any time? Just when I get excited about WBB an amazing coach leaves for a worse program, why?

Since when is it a competition for which Duke program we like best? Personally, I think the answer is if you're a fan, you're a fan, and you may not like everything that happens to the program but you have to deal with it and root for your team. If you stop rooting for a program because the team has "problems in the Sweet 16" or because your favorite coach leaves the team, then perhaps you ought to question whether you're truly a fan, or whether you're only a fan when things are going well?

Just my opinion, of course.

[Bob Green]

Did anybody else become more of a fan of Duke WBB than MBB at any time?

In a word, No!

[msdukie]

Did anybody else become more of a fan of Duke WBB than MBB at any time?

I am a fan of DUKE

[msdukie]

$$$$$$$

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