View Full Version : My favorite youtube clip ever/Dahntay's Pushups
VaDukie
07-11-2007, 03:15 PM
I was messing around youtube earlier and remembered this dunk by Dahntay. I don't want to cheapen it by trying to describe its brilliance so I'll just have you watch it. It shows it in two angles so watch all the way through
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72jcpQIxQtE
Indoor66
07-11-2007, 05:28 PM
IMO the dunk is the least skilled play in the game. I personally wish that the emphasis on the dunk was diminished. I would support a rule change that eliminated the dunk. IMO this would lead to the enhancement of the skills of all players.
The dunk, again IMO, is a major factor in the failure of the development of fundamentals development by many players. The bulk of the ink goes to the spectacular dunk and the skill play overlooked. Thus the kids try to develop the most spectacular, in your face, bad jam. This is obvious in the NBA and also becoming more so at the college level. The linked film with DickieV's slobbering over the dunks illustrates my point.
Recently, there was an article of an "experiement" that raised the basket to 11 feet. Maybe that would put more emphasis on fundamentals... and reduce the number of dunks since only the very tall or very gifted will be able to dunk. Similar to moving the 3-point line back to reduce 3-point attempts.
VaDukie
07-11-2007, 05:58 PM
IMO the dunk is the least skilled play in the game. I personally wish that the emphasis on the dunk was diminished. I would support a rule change that eliminated the dunk. IMO this would lead to the enhancement of the skills of all players.
The dunk, again IMO, is a major factor in the failure of the development of fundamentals development by many players. The bulk of the ink goes to the spectacular dunk and the skill play overlooked. Thus the kids try to develop the most spectacular, in your face, bad jam. This is obvious in the NBA and also becoming more so at the college level. The linked film with DickieV's slobbering over the dunks illustrates my point.
The dunk has certainly contributed to basketball fundamentals being lessened, but how many people do you know that could have pulled off that dunk by Dahntay? He's not just going up to the basket, jumping up, and putting it in with two hands. He's beating his man off the dribble, going up, adjusting his body midflight to deal with the defender, and maintaing the coordination to but the ball in the basket. To call it the least skilled play is a little far fetched.
Indoor66
07-11-2007, 07:43 PM
The dunk has certainly contributed to basketball fundamentals being lessened, but how many people do you know that could have pulled off that dunk by Dahntay? He's not just going up to the basket, jumping up, and putting it in with two hands. He's beating his man off the dribble, going up, adjusting his body midflight to deal with the defender, and maintaing the coordination to but the ball in the basket. To call it the least skilled play is a little far fetched.
I do not question the incredible athletic ability of Dante and many of the "Dunkers." On the other hand, it is only 2 points.
I do not question the incredible athletic ability of Dante and many of the "Dunkers." On the other hand, it is only 2 points.
I read somewhere that the dunk should be changed to 1 point... since it's not really "shooting" the basketball. Maybe that will discourage the "highlight-reel" dunk.
Indoor66
07-11-2007, 08:55 PM
Sounds like a plan to me. Great idea.
kydevil
07-11-2007, 09:31 PM
What you also must remember about the dunk is that it is used for momentum. Yes I know it's only two points but it can swing momentum to your team.
camcraz25
07-11-2007, 10:02 PM
Does anyone have a clip of Dahntay's dunk at the Maui invitational that Coach K reenacted on the sidelines about 3 times?? I can't find it anywhere on the internet!
VaDukie
07-11-2007, 10:03 PM
I read somewhere that the dunk should be changed to 1 point... since it's not really "shooting" the basketball. Maybe that will discourage the "highlight-reel" dunk.
Why would you penalize a player for his ability to finish at the basket? There are instances were a layup would leave you vulnerable to a block, and dunking is the best play. You may not like the showboating, but it is a valuable talent. And most highlight reel dunks are on fast breaks - the result of good defense.
I never expected the thread to go this route.
Richard Berg
07-11-2007, 10:39 PM
IMO the dunk is the least skilled play in the game.
Nonsense. Can you dunk?
Nonsense. Can you dunk?
Well... I can't, but I'm 5-5, not 6-6 or taller. Apparently, anyone over 6-6 can dunk without any other "skill" involved than a simple jump, and the taller they are, the less "skill" involved with the dunk (my 2 cents). In fact, I probably couldn't even dunk on an 8-foot basket... so I guess that tells you how little I might know about "dunking skill"...
Indoor66
07-12-2007, 03:45 AM
Nonsense. Can you dunk?
IMO an irrelevant question. In fact I am 5'9" and cannot dunk - never could.
happydays1949
07-12-2007, 08:39 AM
It gets me excited!!!
Chard
07-12-2007, 09:08 AM
I have that game on tape and won't record over it because of that dunk. Whoa, Nelly!
tombrady
07-12-2007, 09:22 AM
IMO the dunk is the least skilled play in the game. I personally wish that the emphasis on the dunk was diminished. I would support a rule change that eliminated the dunk. IMO this would lead to the enhancement of the skills of all players.
The dunk, again IMO, is a major factor in the failure of the development of fundamentals development by many players. The bulk of the ink goes to the spectacular dunk and the skill play overlooked. Thus the kids try to develop the most spectacular, in your face, bad jam. This is obvious in the NBA and also becoming more so at the college level. The linked film with DickieV's slobbering over the dunks illustrates my point.
Dude. It's basketball. Its a game. It was invented for entertainment, and remains as such. Its not a fricken' academic discipline.
I get much more joy out of seeing someone throw a vicious jam down on some pour soul's head than I do of a 10 foot jumper. Sure, I respect the skill it takes to consistently knock that down, but Cameron gets more rockin' for the dunks. And that is ultimately fun.
OZZIE4DUKE
07-12-2007, 10:29 AM
Well... I can't, but I'm 5-5, not 6-6 or taller.
Watching Spud Webb (5'7") and Mugsy Boges (5'3" - yes, 5'3" - that is not a typo!) dunk was amazing. And didn't one of them win the NBA's dunking contest one year?
Of course, I'm 5'9" and can't come close to dunking. Never could. I think my vertical jump now is about 8 inches. It used to be ~12", but the last 30 pounds have sort of reduced my leaping ability :)
And it is very difficult. I almost never do it in a game, and basically only when I am wide open. The difference between what I can do and someone who dunks in traffic is mind boggling. Someone who says that dunking requires no skill has obviously never done it.
Jaymf7
07-12-2007, 12:03 PM
Unless you consider raw athletic talent "skill", I have to disagree that dunking takes significant skill. I tend to think of skill as an ability that takes great practice to develop. I admit that you can improve athletic ability by training, but that just is not skill to me.
I would bet that the clear majority of exceptional athletes 6' and taller can dunk. They could do it without any practice. While dunking in traffic might take some work, I would bet that an exceptional athlete who had never played basketball would be able to dunk in traffic with far less practice than it would take to master a 3 point jumper.
In fact, while at Duke a bunch of my friends and I found a lowered hoop off of central that was about 9'2". Many of my friends were Duke swimmers or wrestlers who were not great ball players, but they excelled in Dunkball. Of course, we are talking a matter of scale here, but on the highest level I think great athletes can master dunking without a great deal of skill.
aheel4ever
07-12-2007, 12:20 PM
Watching Spud Webb (5'7") and Mugsy Boges (5'3" - yes, 5'3" - that is not a typo!) dunk was amazing. And didn't one of them win the NBA's dunking contest one year?
Of course, I'm 5'9" and can't come close to dunking. Never could. I think my vertical jump now is about 8 inches. It used to be ~12", but the last 30 pounds have sort of reduced my leaping ability :)
Spud did win the NBA dunk contest, but I don't remember ever seeing Muggsy dunk.
Classof06
07-12-2007, 03:59 PM
And it is very difficult. I almost never do it in a game, and basically only when I am wide open. The difference between what I can do and someone who dunks in traffic is mind boggling. Someone who says that dunking requires no skill has obviously never done it.
This is spot on. I'm with you, I can dunk but I've NEVER done it in a game (HS, pickup, etc.). Dunking just messing around and dunking in traffic in a game are literally night and day.
Richard Berg
07-12-2007, 06:24 PM
I tend to think of skill as an ability that takes great practice to develop.
In that case, wide open layups are definitely not a skill. Since they require even less practice than a showboat dunk, let's make them only worth 0.5 points.
EarlJam
07-13-2007, 02:42 PM
I'm 6'3" and can't dunk. When I was 20 or so, I think I was able to dunk a few times, during warm-ups and after eating a bunch of Snickers bars and having a Jolt cola. I gots da Bill Lambier and Kurt Rambis ups!
-EarlJam
Jaymf7
07-13-2007, 03:42 PM
In that case, wide open layups are definitely not a skill. Since they require even less practice than a showboat dunk, let's make them only worth 0.5 points.
I'm pretty sure you were responding to my post.
I actually think a layup takes MORE skill/practice than a dunk. I'm not sure if you used the term "showboat" to describe all dunks or refer to a more difficult type of dunk (which would be a bit of a straw man argument). If you meant a more acrobatic style (dunk contest) dunk, then I'll concede that takes skill to develop, but that was not what was being discussed earlier in the thread.
If given an open route to the basket and forced to choose between a layup and a dunk (assuming I had the raw athletic ability to consistently finish dunks), I'd go with the dunk. If I were coaching a world-class athlete who had never played basketball and had only a day to practice before a game, I'd recommend the same.
Saying layups take no skill makes me think you have never coached or watched young kids play basketball.
FWIW, I do not agree that dunks should be worth less than other 2 point shots -- I just disagree that dunking in general is a skill.
Richard Berg
07-13-2007, 04:53 PM
I mostly agree with your definition of skill. There's a continuum here. When I was in 1st grade, dunks and layups were equally impossible. For highly athletic college kids, both are a cinch. In the NBA, Dahntay dunking over Yao and Tony Parker driving layups around Ilgauskas are both extremely impressive.
I'll stick to my argument that dunks generally require at least as much skill as layups, especially in the context of a competitive game. But I'll admit it's a silly off-season debate to be having. It's clear that neither of those skills requires as much practice as things like ballhandling, outside shooting, passing out of a double-team, defending the pick-n-roll, etc.
The difference is, nobody ever argues that we should make up new rules to actively penalize "unskilled" (whatever that means) plays in other areas of the game. Dunks are singled out, and I find that utterly ridiculous. I blame (a) jealousy (b) John Wooden.
SilkyJ
07-13-2007, 05:23 PM
I'm pretty sure you were responding to my post.
I actually think a layup takes MORE skill/practice than a dunk.
If given an open route to the basket and forced to choose between a layup and a dunk (assuming I had the raw athletic ability to consistently finish dunks), I'd go with the dunk.
But since you can't Dunk you really can't comment can you?
Jaymf7
07-13-2007, 09:41 PM
Sure I can comment. We all have comments on this board, and few of us are as talented or can do the things that our players, coaches, or ADs can do (well, maybe strike the last part).
I never dunked a basketball on a 10' rim in a game, true. But if you read my posts, I have played games on lower rims in which dunking was really the whole point. I know, this is not impressive, but I think I have enough experience to speak an opinion.
Moreover, I have torn up many basketball players who could dunk, so what does that say about "skill"? My inability to "consistently finish dunks in games" does not speak to my level of practice or skill (I have played a lot more ball than many who can dunk). Indeed, if I were a bit taller or had a bit better vertical (neither of which has to do with skill, as I've defnied it), I would dunk easily. That is kind of my point.
Again, this is a silly debate, but I am amused by people who think dunking in general is a skill.
SilkyJ
07-13-2007, 10:18 PM
Sure I can comment. We all have comments on this board, and few of us are as talented or can do the things that our players, coaches, or ADs can do (well, maybe strike the last part).
I never dunked a basketball on a 10' rim in a game, true. But if you read my posts, I have played games on lower rims in which dunking was really the whole point. I know, this is not impressive, but I think I have enough experience to speak an opinion.
Basketball isn't played on lower rims. Its played on 10 foot rims. So you can't compare the two. The fact that you can jump 10 inches and dunk on a lower rim doesnt mean you can use that experience to comment on dunking on a real basket. I stick by my original statement.
If I were a bit taller or had a bit better vertical (neither of which has to do with skill, as I've defnied it), I would dunk easily.
To summarize, if I had two wheels, I'd be a bicycle.
Jaymf7
07-13-2007, 11:52 PM
Where did you play your college ball? You seem to post on this forum, but under your argument, if you did not play D1 ball, you cannot comment on it.
I'm not talking about bicycles. I have played a great deal of ball -- as have some immensely skilled players who were not known for dunking. I can have an opinion.
Rather than relying on cheesy ad hominem attacks, why don't you attempt to challenge my premises? Do you disagree that a phenomenal athlete who had never touched a basketball could be able to dunk on his first or second try? Could that individual dunk consistently after a day (or week) of practice? Wouldn't that person need much more practice to consistently hit a free throw, or 3, or press, or drive? I'm not sure how you can argue with this.
On the other side, how many adult (meaning physically mature) players have been unable to dunk, then developed that skill through practice? Of course, that is possible through physical training, but I have posited that training is distinct from practicing and improving a skill (in essence, the former improves musclew performance, while the latter improves mental performance and so-called "muscle memory").
If you disagree with my concept of a skill as something that must be practiced, fine. Make an argument. You might like it.
In that case, wide open layups are definitely not a skill. Since they require even less practice than a showboat dunk, let's make them only worth 0.5 points.
I wanted to make a comment about my experience and "basketball skills"... which is south of nothing. From what I've been able (or not able) to do, I think layups are definitely a skill. I have not yet figured out how players put "spin" on the ball and that so-called "english" on the ball, so that they can lay it up and have it bounce off the backboard and into the basket... especially when running toward the basket usually in full speed (front, side, it doesn't matter for me). I would need a lot of teaching and practice to do that... and maybe never succeed. On the other hand, I can shoot the basketball... like mid-range, free throws, etc. So, if I can shoot the ball (which, I assume, requires "skill"), but cannot do a layup (which doesn't require "skill")... what does that mean? (well, of course, it means I'm not a basketball player, but what about everyone else?)
On the other hand, if I was tall enough, I'm sure after a few tries, I could "dunk" the ball without much skill involved. But, as others have posted, a simple "dunk" and a dunk in game situations with defenders all around and going full speed is probably a whole world of difference... of course, I'll never know...:)
glutton
07-17-2007, 03:10 PM
saying dunking doesn't require skill is like saying being a running back doesn't require skill... because how hard is it to hold on to a football and run toward the end zone? but oh wait, you're surrounded by people trying to decapitate you. if dunking were that easy, you could throw any 7-footer into an NBA game and he'd dominate... and yet that doesn't appear to be the case.
but since shooting is clearly easier the closer you are to the basket, we could "level the playing field" by drawing concentric rings around it with different point values. JJ could just camp out by the halfcourt ring.
SilkyJ
07-17-2007, 03:27 PM
Where did you play your college ball? You seem to post on this forum, but under your argument, if you did not play D1 ball, you cannot comment on it.
I am saying that if you can't dunk, you can't comment on how difficult it is. And I'm not saying you literally can't or shouldn't be allowed too - by all means please present your opinion - I'm using it as the common figure of speech, which means "you don't know what you're talking about." i.e. someone who's never flown a helicopter saying its easy to fly a helicopter.
I can have an opinion.
Again, I'm not trying to silence you, I'm just saying that, in my opinion, if you can't dunk on a 10-foot rim, then you are unable to comment intelligently on its difficulty. (To give you context: I say this having once not been able to dunk and also now being able to dunk)
Rather than relying on cheesy ad hominem attacks, why don't you attempt to challenge my premises?
1st - I am not sure where I stand on this debate of whether dunking takes skill, so thats why I haven't chimed in. I don't have to argue the point that YOU WANT me to argue.
2nd - I like my cheesy comments.
If you disagree with my concept of a skill as something that must be practiced, fine. Make an argument. You might like it.
As I said, I'm not sure where I stand in terms of your argument of dunking skill versus other bball skills.
I did make an argument, its that if you can't dunk on a 10-foot rim, then you really don't know how hard it is. Again, I don't have to argue the point that YOU WANT me to argue.
Finally, no one seems to be agreeing with me, so I wouldn't worry too much. Its just my opinion.
EarlJam
07-17-2007, 03:35 PM
Basketball isn't played on lower rims. Its played on 10 foot rims. So you can't compare the two. The fact that you can jump 10 inches and dunk on a lower rim doesnt mean you can use that experience to comment on dunking on a real basket. I stick by my original statement.
I remember when growing up there was this guy that was bigger (and older) than all of us and he thought he was a bad-arse because he could dunk many things through a 10-foot hoop. Many things, that is, except for a basketball. We were on the court outside one day at my friend's house and he was picking up pieces of bark off the ground and dunking them. Then he'd dunk a rock. I remember asking him, to the delight and laughter of those around me, "Cool! Can you dunk a coaster?"
Deep within the heart and souls of all of us who have played a lot of ball, we all want to dunk. We really do.
-EarlJam
SilkyJ
07-17-2007, 07:45 PM
Deep within the heart and souls of all of us who have played a lot of ball, we all want to dunk. We really do.
-EarlJam
True that. I wanted to FOREVER, and to be honest I used to dunk tennis balls alllll the time.
EarlJam
07-18-2007, 09:44 AM
True that. I wanted to FOREVER, and to be honest I used to dunk tennis balls alllll the time.
When I was younger, I could dunk the HELL out of a tennis ball! Seriously.
It's just harder to get your hands around big balls.
-EarlJam
SilkyJ
07-18-2007, 10:15 AM
It's just harder to get your hands around big balls.
-EarlJam
"Thats what she said"
-Michael Scott
Ozzie,
I'm fairly certain that Mugsy Bogues could not dunk. He was a helluva player, but his vertical was pretty limited. Unlike Spud Webb, Mugsy was stocky and his thighs were practically the size of his waist.
I'm not sure what this website is, but I guess I should stand corrected. I couldn't find any actual footage, though.
http://factcheck.gullible.info/discussion/27/mugsy-bogues/
SilkyJ
07-18-2007, 12:30 PM
I'm not sure what this website is, but I guess I should stand corrected. I couldn't find any actual footage, though.
http://factcheck.gullible.info/discussion/27/mugsy-bogues/
Just as an observation, the website is called "Gullible Info" so I'm not sure whether that is serious or not...
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