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View Full Version : Doug Gottlieb Re-Education Camp?



sagegrouse
08-22-2011, 09:48 AM
Anyone else here think that announcer Doug Gottlieb -- he of the "alarmingly unathletic" quote -- has been sent to a Communist-style reeducation camp to get such heresies out of his head? He must broadcast three consecutive Duke games, two from a Communist country, and say nothing but nice things about Duke, the players and Coach K.

I think he is making excellent progress, but the proof will be in the regular season.

sagegrouse

gumbomoop
08-22-2011, 09:56 AM
His commentary today has been excellent, superb even. Specific, detailed, in more than a few instances Knight-like in its inside-the-real-game insights.

Maybe when he's actually dealing with the intricacies of the game his knowledge comes out, compared to his attempts at cleverness in studio.

VaDukie
08-22-2011, 10:02 AM
"Alarmingly unathletic" aside, I've always felt that Gottlieb has gotten a bad rap from Duke fans. I think more often than not he evaluates us fairly.

OldPhiKap
08-22-2011, 10:54 AM
Anyone else here think that announcer Doug Gottlieb -- he of the "alarmingly unathletic" quote -- has been sent to a Communist-style reeducation camp to get such heresies out of his head? He must broadcast three consecutive Duke games, two from a Communist country, and say nothing but nice things about Duke, the players and Coach K.

I think he is making excellent progress, but the proof will be in the regular season.

sagegrouse

Is he travelling with the team? It may be that we're his only ticket home. . . .

Pghdukie
08-22-2011, 11:20 AM
Anyone else here think that announcer Doug Gottlieb -- he of the "alarmingly unathletic" quote -- has been sent to a Communist-style reeducation camp to get such heresies out of his head? He must broadcast three consecutive Duke games, two from a Communist country, and say nothing but nice things about Duke, the players and Coach K.

I think he is making excellent progress, but the proof will be in the regular season.

sagegrouse

I have never heard a color commentator refer to anyone as an "Inbound Pass Defensive Specialist" until this am when Gottlieb referenced Mason.

hurleyfor3
08-22-2011, 11:38 AM
I have never heard a color commentator refer to anyone as an "Inbound Pass Defensive Specialist" until this am when Gottlieb referenced Mason.

Rick Pitino could have used one of those in 1992.

sagegrouse
08-22-2011, 11:44 AM
I have never heard a color commentator refer to anyone as an "Inbound Pass Defensive Specialist" until this am when Gottlieb referenced Mason.

As you recognize, that was a joke at Mason's expense. MP2, who had made minimal contributions at the time, had intercepted two sidecourt inbounds passes and dribbled in for dunks. Mason ended up with an excellent game and was much more aggressive later on.


sagegrouse

mph
08-22-2011, 12:22 PM
I agree with gumbo. Gottlieb's commentary has been excellent. I have to confess that I chuckled when Marshall picked up a foul after checking in late in the game and Gottlieb quipped that he was trying to match his brothers in fouls per minute played.

Bluedog
08-22-2011, 01:08 PM
Is he travelling with the team? It may be that we're his only ticket home. . . .

No. The commentators aren't even in China - they're in the U.S. simply watching it on video like us. That's why they never show them on camera.

Personally, I think Gottlieb has always been a great in game commentator as he researches the teams really well, even when it's a team that gets no press and I couldn't name a single player on the team. It's his in studio commentary that sometimes rubs me the wrong way, but overall, I think he just tells it like he sees it and doesn't have a clear bias or anything. I appreciate the honesty and he does have some good insights.

ACCBBallFan
08-22-2011, 01:16 PM
Gottlieb even said that Duke got off to a quick start by out athleting China today.

He lost his main line about Duke getting all the calls and his reporting has been very fair.

Mack Brown and he are a little boring but not as annoying as Len Elmore.

They make it sound like they watched the first game that was not televised. Not sure if they are traveling with team or not, as prior post idicates.

They may need some filler material in the Dubai game where subs should log more PT.

VaDukie
08-22-2011, 01:17 PM
No. The commentators aren't even in China - they're in the U.S. simply watching it on video like us. That's why they never show them on camera.

Wow, I hadn't even noticed that. Good observation.

AZLA
08-22-2011, 01:19 PM
He's turned a corner for the better.

I do feel he's made an effort to research more and back his statements with more plausible thoughts.

His un-athletic comment was a knee-jerk reaction and a poor choice of words (foot in mouth)...

I think Coach K's reaction put it in perspective for him and everyone how ridiculous his comment was. Wh

A few weeks after the Georgetown he started to realize how Duke's slow down style, size (especially Zoub's stats cleaning up both ends of the glass) and hard nosed defense game made it a top contender for the championship, at a time when others scoffed.

He started presenting some good rational and eventually was vindicated. He was definitely swimming against the current at that time and he was doing so by not giving into the stereotypes and looking at the data.

Every now and then he digresses, but I do believe he's hitting a stride.

loldevilz
08-22-2011, 01:22 PM
"Alarmingly unathletic" aside, I've always felt that Gottlieb has gotten a bad rap from Duke fans. I think more often than not he evaluates us fairly.

This is the truth. In 2010 he was the only one to mention how good Zoubek had become. I remember in his podcast mentioning that how big and bruising our bigs were and that this was a different Duke team. I really think he changed his opinion after watching us throughout the year. He also had us going to the championship game that year in his bracket. I'm pretty sure he was the only ESPN guy to do that.

wilko
08-22-2011, 01:24 PM
So to Sum up..

Doug Gottlieb can be more than serviceable when:



There are no other games are on in the time slot.
He doesn't speak the language of Dukes opposition.
He has no on-site distractions.
Is forced to watch the game and talk about that game..


Noted - We can easily see if this holds form on his next Duke game in the States as a control test.
I'm tempted to think that with no other recourse, he was forced to talk about the game.

Tappan Zee Devil
08-22-2011, 03:25 PM
So to Sum up..

Doug Gottlieb can be more than serviceable when:



There are no other games are on in the time slot.
He doesn't speak the language of Dukes opposition.
He has no on-site distractions.
Is forced to watch the game and talk about that game..


Noted - We can easily see if this holds form on his next Duke game in the States as a control test.
I'm tempted to think that with no other recourse, he was forced to talk about the game.

This may actually apply more to Dickie V.
But then one never knows. He (Vitale) can off on a tangent ( or to completely irrelevant topics) with no external stimulii

Azdukefan
08-22-2011, 03:30 PM
This is the truth. In 2010 he was the only one to mention how good Zoubek had become. I remember in his podcast mentioning that how big and bruising our bigs were and that this was a different Duke team. I really think he changed his opinion after watching us throughout the year. He also had us going to the championship game that year in his bracket. I'm pretty sure he was the only ESPN guy to do that.

Well he is back at his old ways. He just tweeted that we probably don't have an NBA guy on our roster. My count has a quite a few.

Acymetric
08-22-2011, 03:47 PM
Well he is back at his old ways. He just tweeted that we probably don't have an NBA guy on our roster. My count has a quite a few.

I would be shocked if none of these guys make it in the NBA, and I expect all of them to spend at least some amount of time on a roster. I'm calling it too soon to tell for the freshmen, but I wouldn't rule any of them out either.

Miles
Seth
Mason
Kelly
Andre

NovaScotian
08-22-2011, 03:58 PM
Well he is back at his old ways. He just tweeted that we probably don't have an NBA guy on our roster. My count has a quite a few.

i think quite a few may be an exaggeration, but ignoring austin (projected lottery pick for 2012) is probably a huge mistake.

OldPhiKap
08-22-2011, 03:58 PM
Well he is back at his old ways. He just tweeted that we probably don't have an NBA guy on our roster. My count has a quite a few.

He's counting on a multi-year lock-out.

wk2109
08-22-2011, 04:06 PM
I wonder if he would have said Harrison Barnes isn't an NBA player during the early part of last season.

Bluedog
08-22-2011, 04:08 PM
I wonder if he would have said Harrison Barnes isn't an NBA player during the early part of last season.

To be fair to Gottlieb, he did say this:


Did u watch the two games?I was asked about Duke, I am not sold on Rivers right now, plenty of time to change that

http://www.tweetdeck.com/twitter/GottliebShow/~cR8lG

Frankly, though, I think jumping to any conclusions after two exhibition games is misguided. If the first game was televised in which Rivers shot over 50% and had 18 points, Gottlieb might have a different opinion. Posters on here have jumped to conclusions after the Blue-White scrimmage in the past (Shav, Zoubek), saying those players will be dominant and starters and then it doesn't turn out to be the case. I expect Rivers to be really good some games, but inconsistent, as most freshman are. Obviously, the potential is there though, he just needs to cut down on mistakes.

licc85
08-22-2011, 06:10 PM
Apparently, Coach K has given Andre the "Red-Hot Green Light" this year. I had a good laugh as Doug frantically tried (in vain) to save that one.

I don't know what his problem with Austin is, but he's giving him a way harder time than he deserves. I wish people would just drop the "I want to destroy Lebron" comment. I'm sure we're all tired of hearing about it.

Also, he still hasn't learned to call the Chinese players by their surnames after following 3 games (and calling 2 of them). Pathetic.

weezie
08-22-2011, 07:24 PM
Is he travelling with the team? It may be that we're his only ticket home. . . .

:D Or the slow boat from China.

Ugh,what could be worse than a plane ride w/dougie g.
Better he sits in a dark studio watching feed and pontificating.

jafarr1
08-22-2011, 08:51 PM
Sure, Gottlieb gave himself an out, but why even make those statements in the first place? I wouldn't try to make any concrete judgments based upon a tour like this, good or bad.

_Gary
08-22-2011, 09:42 PM
Sure, Gottlieb gave himself an out, but why even make those statements in the first place? I wouldn't try to make any concrete judgments based upon a tour like this, good or bad.

Exactly. I don't get all the gushing about Gottlieb on here today. I thought his smarmy dislike for Duke still shined through a few different times (like the comment at the end about Marshall). I'm not inclined to stand up and cheer just because he wasn't as nauseatingly anti-Duke as he usually is.

Kedsy
08-22-2011, 10:45 PM
Exactly. I don't get all the gushing about Gottlieb on here today. I thought his smarmy dislike for Duke still shined through a few different times (like the comment at the end about Marshall). I'm not inclined to stand up and cheer just because he wasn't as nauseatingly anti-Duke as he usually is.

I'm not gushing, but I thought he was pretty good Thursday and again today. A lot of decent insights, nothing he said offended me, and I thought the Marshall line was funny. He was certainly less anti-Duke than Elmore or Packer.

PSurprise
08-22-2011, 10:58 PM
Like many here, I was pleasantly surprised at Gottlieb today. From my perspective, almost everything he said today was pretty fair. He actually gave a little insight into the game being played and kept his usual anti-Dukeness to a slightly less level than we're accustomed to.

One thing I will give him credit for is that he only had one team he's familiar with to comment on. Overall, I thought his comments were pretty even.

licc85
08-23-2011, 02:33 AM
I see a lot of people on this board comment that Len Elmore is extremely anti-Duke in his commentary. I know he's a MD alum, and there's no possible way he could LIKE Duke, but I've never had a serious problem with his commentary. Maybe it's because he's often paired with Mike Patrick, who just seems to like everyone, and it drowns out the anti-Duke coming from Elmore. Can anyone provide some examples of his anti-Duke bias?

HK Dukie
08-23-2011, 08:25 AM
. Can anyone provide some examples of his anti-Duke bias?

Len is one of the primary "Duke gets all the calls" guys. It's like a ticking time bomb every telecast with him. You know it's coming. Just a question of when.

killerleft
08-23-2011, 08:44 AM
Well he is back at his old ways. He just tweeted that we probably don't have an NBA guy on our roster. My count has a quite a few.

:) I was wondering when this lovefest for Dougie was going to end.

CDu
08-23-2011, 09:14 AM
I thought Gottlieb was great. People are too sensitive about stuff like this. The guy gives his honest and usually-educated opinion as an analyst. When he thought Duke looked bad (e.g., against Arizona State when we looked unathletic) he said so. When he thought we looked good (e.g., his praise of Zoubek and picking us to go to the championship game later that same year) he said so. He's just very opinionated (which is part of his job) and very brash.

As a play-by-play guy, I think he's fantastic. He actually pays attention to the game. He actually discusses the merit (or lack thereof) of calls made throughout the game, and he's almost always right. He actually provides wit and humor. And he actually provides insight into the game being played. I think he's the best color commentator I've seen in a while. Better than Knight, who has forgotten more than I'll ever know about the game, but is getting less sharp at analyzing the actual game being played. Better than Bilas (who is getting too preachy for me). And obviously better than the other guys who are really bad (Elmore, Vitale, etc).

UrinalCake
08-23-2011, 01:22 PM
What's up with Gottlieb criticizing Gbinije for fouling a guy shooting a three-pointer when the replay shows it was a horrible call? Gottlieb first said it was a "low IQ play," then after watching the replay he backtracked and said "he didn't leave the ground and just had his hands up, but you shouldn't even stand close enough that the shooter can kick his legs out into you." Seriously?

If you really want to get your blood boiling, go to the NCAA vault and listen to Billy Packer's commentary of our 2001 final four game against Maryland.

CDu
08-23-2011, 01:31 PM
What's up with Gottlieb criticizing Gbinije for fouling a guy shooting a three-pointer when the replay shows it was a horrible call? Gottlieb first said it was a "low IQ play," then after watching the replay he backtracked and said "he didn't leave the ground and just had his hands up, but you shouldn't even stand close enough that the shooter can kick his legs out into you." Seriously?

If you really want to get your blood boiling, go to the NCAA vault and listen to Billy Packer's commentary of our 2001 final four game against Maryland.

Not Gottlieb's best moment of commentary on the game (probably his worst). He was otherwise really good about noting when the replay clearly showed it was a bad call. That one he fell into the commentator trap of committing to one story line on a play and not bending enough when the replay clearly shows you're wrong. It's one of my pet peeves, and he usually didn't make that mistake.

In fairness, he was hinting that it was an unusual mistake for Gbinije (he had referred to Gbinije as a high-IQ player when he said that was a low-IQ play). He just didn't adjust enough to say that it wasn't really a low-IQ play once he saw the replay.

UrinalCake
08-23-2011, 01:31 PM
I also enjoyed the comment that the Duke team is "circumventing the globe." Did we take a spaceship to get to China?

CDu
08-23-2011, 01:47 PM
I also enjoyed the comment that the Duke team is "circumventing the globe." Did we take a spaceship to get to China?

I remember that one, and almost made a comment about it to my wife. She would have surely responded "dork." I think that was the play-by-play announcer though, not Gottlieb.

hurleyfor3
08-23-2011, 02:14 PM
I also enjoyed the comment that the Duke team is "circumventing the globe." Did we take a spaceship to get to China?

Nah, we took the tunnel.

Indoor66
08-23-2011, 02:41 PM
Nah, we took the tunnel.

The one we were all digging as children?

Dukeface88
08-23-2011, 03:32 PM
The one we were all digging as children?

No, the quantum tunnel teleporter. The one the physics department keeps next to the invisibility cloak.

lotusland
08-23-2011, 04:30 PM
Not Gottlieb's best moment of commentary on the game (probably his worst). He was otherwise really good about noting when the replay clearly showed it was a bad call. That one he fell into the commentator trap of committing to one story line on a play and not bending enough when the replay clearly shows you're wrong. It's one of my pet peeves, and he usually didn't make that mistake.

In fairness, he was hinting that it was an unusual mistake for Gbinije (he had referred to Gbinije as a high-IQ player when he said that was a low-IQ play). He just didn't adjust enough to say that it wasn't really a low-IQ play once he saw the replay.


He acknowledged that the shooter kicked out his legs and performed a "Reggie Miller" to draw the foul call and said that sG shouldn't have gotten close enough to allow him to draw the foul through a somewhat deceptive tactic similar to a flop or a Punter falling down to draw a roughing to kicker penalty. There was nothing biased or even inaccurate about what he said IMO.

CDu
08-23-2011, 04:35 PM
He acknowledged that the shooter kicked out his legs and performed a "Reggie Miller" to draw the foul call and said that sG shouldn't have gotten close enough to allow him to draw the foul through a somewhat deceptive tactic similar to a flop or a Punter falling down to draw a roughing to kicker penalty. There was nothing biased or even inaccurate about what he said IMO.

I completely agree that there wasn't any bias intended from Gottlieb (I've been one of the ones defending him). Although one could debate whether or not Gbinije was so close to the player as to even had it be a reasonable "Reggie Miller" call. You still have to close out on defense - sometimes the officials miss the call.

licc85
08-23-2011, 04:42 PM
I thought Gottlieb was great. People are too sensitive about stuff like this. The guy gives his honest and usually-educated opinion as an analyst. When he thought Duke looked bad (e.g., against Arizona State when we looked unathletic) he said so. When he thought we looked good (e.g., his praise of Zoubek and picking us to go to the championship game later that same year) he said so. He's just very opinionated (which is part of his job) and very brash.

As a play-by-play guy, I think he's fantastic. He actually pays attention to the game. He actually discusses the merit (or lack thereof) of calls made throughout the game, and he's almost always right. He actually provides wit and humor. And he actually provides insight into the game being played. I think he's the best color commentator I've seen in a while. Better than Knight, who has forgotten more than I'll ever know about the game, but is getting less sharp at analyzing the actual game being played. Better than Bilas (who is getting too preachy for me). And obviously better than the other guys who are really bad (Elmore, Vitale, etc).

I actually agree that he did a decent job with these 2 games, but I think he's just wronged us too much in the past for us to forgive him. I also just don't like him period . . I mean what kind of guy constantly brings up the fact that he once played Div I basketball just to give himself some credit? (And yes, he DID mention his playing days when he said that he played against Darko Milicic out of nowhere when he was talking about Wang Zhelin; I knew he would throw it in there somewhere) And then he threw up his picture next to his top 5 NCAA team rankings . . . was that really necessary? I guess he's a bit insecure about it or something, but just do your job . . as an analyst, if you sound like you know what you're talking about, people will respect you. No need for the excessive self-aggrandizement.

Acymetric
08-23-2011, 08:56 PM
He acknowledged that the shooter kicked out his legs and performed a "Reggie Miller" to draw the foul call and said that sG shouldn't have gotten close enough to allow him to draw the foul through a somewhat deceptive tactic similar to a flop or a Punter falling down to draw a roughing to kicker penalty. There was nothing biased or even inaccurate about what he said IMO.

I don't see how he could have even pretended to contest the shot from any further, hard to criticize the defensive player on that play.

94duke
08-24-2011, 09:54 AM
No, the quantum tunnel teleporter. The one the physics department keeps next to the invisibility cloak.

Yep. It's down the hall form the weather machine they use for parents' weekend.

UrinalCake
08-24-2011, 10:20 AM
I don't see how he could have even pretended to contest the shot from any further, hard to criticize the defensive player on that play.

I agree; announcers criticize Duke shooters all the time for kicking out their legs and trying to draw a foul. Scheyer got called out on it all the time. Now when we're defending we're supposed to stand so far away that the shooter has space to do that? I personally don't think it should be called a foul when the shooter initiates contact like that, and I can't blame a defender for trying to get a hand in his man's face.

Anyways, with that said I'm not really all that sour on Gottlieb. He's critical at times but also can be complimentary of Duke. His "alarmingly unathletic" comment didn't really bother me all that much because to be honest there was some truth to it.

oldnavy
08-24-2011, 04:48 PM
I think it would be hard to call the games in China. I think announcers try to avoid bad mouthing the officials, but in these games you would really have to bit your tongue. The officiating was laughable, literally I was laughing out loud at the calls. Now had this been an ACC game I would not have laughed, but what could one do??

I liked the way that the Duke kids just rolled with the bad calls (for the most part, Dawkins needs a little work in this area IMO). Glad Gottlieb and the world got to see a game where a team really did get "all the calls", not that I think it will do much to change the anti-Duke crowd's opinion.