MBB Game Thread: Duke vs China 8/18/2011

[roywhite]

Summer treat.

Let's go, Duke!

[KenTankerous]

I'm surprised at how excited I am to watch this game. Y'all may know that I am a late comer to this Duke BB party, but coming from whence I did, it's really cathartic to feel clean when cheering for these kids.

LET'S GO DEVILS!!!!!

[Zephyrius]

As tired as I am... definitely don't regret waking myself up at this ungodly hour. Cheers from the West Coast! :D

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Why will I not be surprised if the video quality on this feed is better than some of the ACC feeds from last year?

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

And yes, the feed appears to be way better. Hrmmm...

GO DEVILS!

Any sense of whether the Chinese people have any idea of Duke basketball? Or are we there to teach them?

[KenTankerous]

Anyone have a link to the rules they are applying? I am not seeing the fouls being called.

[slower]

TERRIBLE camera work. Gottlieb, as always, is a moron (yes, we DO miss Scheyer from last year's team, don't we, Dougie?). The officiating? Hoo boy. You can already see in their expressions that our guys think these calls are BS. And Mason - ah, well, never mind.

[licc85]

Anyone have a link to the rules they are applying? I am not seeing the fouls being called.

Yeah, what was that last foul on Austin? The guy just made an awkward move and lost control and somehow Austin got hit with a foul . .

Yeah, I hate Gottlieb too . . .

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Dawkins looks ready to break out this year.... I can't wait.

[Zephyrius]

anyone know how much weight hairston put on? he looks a lot heftier

[Dev11]

I get up, pour myself a bowl of Cheerios, turn up the volume on ESPN's college basketball theme to make sure I'm not dreaming, and right when I thought everything was perfect, I was rudely brought back to Earth by a snarky Gottlieb comment about Duke gettin all the calls.

Whatever this is still sweet

[licc85]

This is getting ridiculous . . . I know it's an exhibition, but who the heck is paying these refs?? I don't even have to guess when I hear a whistle, it's probably against us . . .

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I love Coach K, fired up, in August, in a meaningless matchup.

[roywhite]

The scoreboard operators seem as competent as the referees.

[wk2109]

The ball seems extra bouncy and the floor seems extra slilppery.

I'm very thankful for Austin and I'd like to see Andre assert himself him off the dribble.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Ankle Watch: 2011

[licc85]

HOLY . . . CRAP . . . I almost thought it happened again . . . thank God Austin's OK.

[Dukeface88]

Best thing about this game so far is Ryan's Zoubeard.

[DukieInBrasil]

'cepting for our bigs. I have to say that i am completely unimpressed by Mason, and Miles is showing a good motor but not much production. Ryan though drilled a 3 and another bucket, kinda what he's supposed to do. Our guards have been pretty erratic. As the announcers have been pointing out, our O is looking outta sync and is in need of someone to be more assertive as the distributor. That will come with time. Hopefully...

[rthomas]

The ball is bouncy, the floor is slippery. the scoreboard operator is incompetent, so are the refs, Gottlieb is a crappy announcer. Can't you all just be happy you get to watch some Duke ball. What's with the complaining? Its August!

[wk2109]

Oh I'm not complaining...just observing.

I love how Ryan is playing so efficiently.

[DevilWearsPrada]

Can someone post a link for the Game this morning. I would love to watch it online. Thanks!!

[KenTankerous]

EXACTLY!!!

When was the last time we watched Duke basketball live from China in August? You want pretty, rerun March/April 2010.

You want real, shut up and watch.

[KenTankerous]

http://espn.go.com/espn3/player?id=228104&league=NCAAM&size=condensed

[Zephyrius]

Can someone post a link for the Game this morning. I would love to watch it online. Thanks!!

its on espn3 or espnu, whichever you have access to

[lotusland]

Ryan and Dre look most improved to me. AR can get to the rack so I think he'll be fine once he gets a little more comfy. I could do w/o the long 3s early in the shot clock though. Seth/Tyler looks like a serviceable point combination. Thought I'd see more silent G but it's early. Duke hoops in August - what could be better?

Not much new for the Plums though. Some nice passing and rebounding but poor FT shooting. Josh looks bigger and more confident on D.

[licc85]

I thought we played as well as we could in the first half . . . the Chinese were extremely stingy and physical and defense, and the refs really didn't help us too much. Dre and Ryan are playing great and Austin is playing well, although a little out of control. I think I underestimated these Chinese guys, they know how to play, and they definitely aren't soft. We're gonna have to grind it out to come out with a win here.

I REALLY hope this slippery floor situation doesn't turn into an injury for anyone.

[DukieInBrasil]

going into the half and i have to say that Ryan is the guy impressing me the most. I really liked Murphy's full out dive for a loose ball he created. China's height is giving us trouble. Looks like these games are gonna be really helpful by a) getting the players' heads on strait b) giving the coaching staff to tinker with roles and combinations and c) getting the players extra time to figure out how to play together.
From what i have seen so far, one of the big challenges for this team is gonna be integrating the parts without a top-flight PG. We've got several solid combo guards and several potentially quality big guys, but not much of an integrative factor. Both Austin and Seth can become that, but they'll have to figure out how to do it.
Anyway, there are a couple of months to work on things before real games start. I'm sure K and staff will make adjustments and get the chemistry on the team working right.

[DevilWearsPrada]

its on espn3 or espnu, whichever you have access to

I dont have access to ESPN3 or U. Isnt there a Justintv link? Or another streaming link?

[duke79]

Always nice to be watching Duke BB in August. Play seems a little sloppy to me, but I attribute that to: 1) first games of the year; 2) long trip from Durham to China; 3) somewhat different rules and ball; 4) K is trying to figure out lineups.
Nice to see the Duke logo at center court and inside side line, but the rest of the court looks rather "high schoolish" to me. At the very least, I think they could have used different colors for lines. THe white lines on a blond court really do not show up well on TV, at least.

[Mike Corey]

AR can get to the rack so I think he'll be fine once he gets a little more comfy.

He's having trouble with China's size. But he's in good company: so is the global economy.

[Faison1]

Score? Stats?

[slower]

According to the ESPN graphic, from last year, we lost:
Kyle
Nolan
Kyrie

DAVID MAYER???????? Who are the amateurs/incompetents responsible for this broadcast?

[elvis14]

Score? Stats?

I don't have stats but it's 36-30 Duke at the half. RyanK has 9 points for Duke.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

I'm seeing a team struggling to find rythem and a leader. No surprise this early in the season and after that trip.

Once again, there's no post scoring in the half court. Its all jump shots and follow ups. The team looks very similar to last year, but without Singler and Smith.

[Kim*]

According to the ESPN graphic, from last year, we lost:
Kyle
Nolan
Kyrie

DAVID MAYER???????? Who are the amateurs/incompetents responsible for this broadcast?
I just came here to ask about this!

[elvis14]

Second half starts and Ryan scores again and the refs missed a bad over the back call.

The announcers politely hate Duke.

[wk2109]

According to the ESPN graphic, from last year, we lost:
Kyle
Nolan
Kyrie

DAVID MAYER???????? Who are the amateurs/incompetents responsible for this broadcast?

Technically they're not wrong -- David Mayer was a walk-on last year who's not on the roster this year. Even goduke.com lists him as a loss from last year.

[SMO]

I'm seeing a team struggling to find rythem and a leader. No surprise this early in the season and after that trip.

Once again, there's no post scoring in the half court. Its all jump shots and follow ups. The team looks very similar to last year, but without Singler and Smith.

I say it's over right now. Wheat's mid-summer fantasies are fulfilled;)

[MCFinARL]

According to the ESPN graphic, from last year, we lost:
Kyle
Nolan
Kyrie

DAVID MAYER???????? Who are the amateurs/incompetents responsible for this broadcast?

Well, and don't forget Casey Peters.

[slower]

Technically they're not wrong -- David Mayer was a walk-on last year who's not on the roster this year. Even goduke.com lists him as a loss from last year.

I stand corrected. :o

[licc85]

I am super impressed with China's 2 big men, #15 Li and #14 Wang, who Gottlieb keeps calling by his given name . . . his surname is Wang, Gottlieb, you're in China, and you still don't know these things . . . come on, man.

I think Miles and Mason are doing as well as they possibly can, but these guys are good. Miles is doing a very good job rebounding, and he had a nice little up and under move to lay it in after an offensive rebound. I'm not surprised that they are having some troubles against China's bigs, these guys could easily start on most Div I teams. Kelly, however, is a BEAST.

[elvis14]

Ryan Kelly just hit a sweet fade away jumper in the lane. That's something I saw him to in the NC Pro Am games and with his size it's really hard to stop. If he can hit that shot with consistency he's going to score a lot of points this year!

[KenTankerous]

Good defense with solid fundamentals will always overcome bad officiating

[Wheat/"/"/"]

I say it's over right now. Wheat's mid-summer fantasies are fulfilled;)

Actually, Miles just had a very nice post score early in second half. They have the skills to make those plays, they just don't seem to look for them, which surprises me.

[lotusland]

Actually, Miles just had a very nice post score early in second half. They have the skills to make those plays, they just don't seem to look for them, which surprises me.

Yeah Miles is really playing well in second half on both sides of the ball. Mason's last free throw looked good too. Kelly is MONEY!

[Faison1]

I hate to keep asking, but would someone mind posting a score every once in a while? I am at work, and can't seem to get anything on ESPN. Thanks in advance!

[matts83]

I'm at work and we don't have ESPNU or access to ESPN3, could someone tell me what the score is now?

[elvis14]

I am super impressed with China's 2 big men, #15 Li and #14 Wang, who Gottlieb keeps calling by his given name . . . his surname is Wang, Gottlieb, you're in China, and you still don't know these things . . . come on, man.

I think Miles and Mason are doing as well as they possibly can, but these guys are good. Miles is doing a very good job rebounding, and he had a nice little up and under move to lay it in after an offensive rebound. I'm not surprised that they are having some troubles against China's bigs, these guys could easily start on most Div I teams. Kelly, however, is a BEAST.

I agree about the Chinese bigs. They are good players, play physical, use their size well, etc. I think Miles is having a pretty good game. I'd love to say the same about Mason but he just isn't playing all that well from what I'm seeing. Kelly continues to be a beast.

Note, before anyone complains, I know saying that about Mason is a bit harsh considering it's August but I'm just calling it as I see it. Kelly has scored 4 more points as I've typed this response!

[NSDukeFan]

I dont have access to ESPN3 or U. Isnt there a Justintv link? Or another streaming link?
I used adthe from google and had to facebook like freedocast? I am currently on http://88.80.16.174/index.php?option=com_lsh&view=lsh&event_id=59095&tid=200669&channel=0&tmpl=component&layout=popup if that helps.

[Zephyrius]

62-50 with about 7 minutes left

[wk2109]

62-48 Duke with 7:36 left in 4th

Ryan looks like Dirk. He even kind of dribbles like him.

[Zephyrius]

67-54 with just under 5 minutes to go... RK has 20 i believe. nice pass by mason for a layup by dawkins

[elvis14]

Mason just grabbed a nice offensive board and made an incredible pass to 'Dre for a layup!

[licc85]

Our bigs are taking over this game in the 4th quarter, all 3 are playing with much improved toughness and confidence and are absolutely dominating the glass. This is beautiful to watch. Although Kelly has clearly been the star, I gotta hand it to Miles, he's been diving all over the place hustling and picking up bruises and floor burns just getting it done. Way to go, big guy.

[matts83]

I used adthe from google and had to facebook like freedocast? I am currently on http://88.80.16.174/index.php?option=com_lsh&view=lsh&event_id=59095&tid=200669&channel=0&tmpl=component&layout=popup if that helps.

Good link...thanks!

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Kelly has looked confident and quicker. He's always had the nice jumper.
"Dirk" like might be a little stretch, but he has put the ball on the floor under control and looked good.
score Duke 78 china 66 a minute to go

[Zephyrius]

78-66 final score

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Final: 78-66 Duke. The good news is nobody got hurt....the floor was slick and dangerous.

[elvis14]

78-66 final score

Ryan and Miles really played well. I thought Curry played pretty good in the second half as well. I was really looking forward to watching Austin play but he didn't have a great game. Austin really had issues with the slick floor. Hope I get to see a box score.

[licc85]

Ryan and Miles really played well. I thought Curry played pretty good in the second half as well. I was really looking forward to watching Austin play but he didn't have a great game. Austin really had issues with the slick floor. Hope I get to see a box score.

It was a forgettable game for Austin, but it wasn't just the floor, he made some poor decisions both in the halfcourt and in transition which lead to turnovers, and he began to look frustrated, and it showed in the way he played. I think he needs to learn how to move on and go into "next play mode." It's pretty understandable for a freshman, and Coach K definitely gave him an earful, so I'll lay off him.

[lotusland]

2nd half was much better to watch with fewer fouls called and much better flow. Miles really played well and showed a lot of fire and even a couple of strong post moves. Mason had some good plays but never really got into a groove. I'm really encouraged about how well the bigs played over-all. AR is going to be both fun and frustrating to watch. Seth and Dre both looked good to me. Hard to know how the competition compares to ACC but I thought Duke looked pretty good for August after losing our big 3 from last year. Wish I could have seen more of sG and Murphy but the experienced guys looked pretty good.

[gwlaw99]

It's going to be a learning experience for a while with this team so I am really glad we have these extra games. This trip is really going to help start working the kinks out -- we are going to have to improve a lot to beat Carolina. Rivers will settle down once he gets some experience. I remember that Coach K said Kyrie improved a lot from the start of practice to the beginning of the season last year. It's great to Ryan emerging and carrying over his pro-am success this year. Miles played really well, but the interior man to man defense still isn't quite there. How do you think the Chinese bigs compare to Zeller and Henson?

[HCheek37]

Several tidbits I noticed while watching at work and freezing my computer a few times....

1) Good to see Coach K in mid-season form going after the refs, benching Austin for poor hustle, and pumping up the Duke crowd at a pivotal point in the 2nd half

2) Coach immediately went to Thornton to replace Austin early in the 2nd half and played a few minutes with Ty at the point, seth and dre on the wings and kelly/miles down low.

3) Ryan and Miles, as noted by others, were the most impressive to me. Sure Miles still had a few errors here and there, but he had a few nice post moves and some good effort to go to the hole STRONG. Ryan is rounding into a fine player who will give a consistent effort and occasionally have a big scoring night. He's the guy out there that other teams might slack off of to help on Austin's drives (because Seth/Dre will keep defenders out past the 3 pt line) and Ryan has a great opportunity to take advantage of that this year.

Not bad for a 2nd game in 24 hours and only a few days after a long travel situation. I'd love to have a few games every summer to watch, makes me want October 14th to come even quicker.

[Bob Green]

I was able to watch the last 15 minutes of the game and came away with several impressions:

1. Ryan Kelly looks very good. He might be the most improved returning player.
2. Miles Plumlee made a couple nice offensive moves in the low post and knocked down a left-handed jump hook.
3. Seth Curry and Andre Dawkins are going to be very solid this coming season.
4. Austin Rivers needs some development in the decision making area. This isn't a suprise as it is August and he is a freshman.

[roywhite]

I was able to watch the last 15 minutes of the game and came away with several impressions:

1. Ryan Kelly looks very good. He might be the most improved returning player.
2. Miles Plumlee made a couple nice offensive moves in the low post and knocked down a left-handed jump hook.
3. Seth Curry and Andre Dawkins are going to be very solid this coming season.
4. Austin Rivers needs some development in the decision making area. This isn't a suprise as it is August and he is a freshman.

All solid observations, Bob, and consistent with other parts of the game that I saw.
Ryan's development is exciting.

One fairly basic adjustment for Austin is to realize he is no longer by far the most talented player on the floor as he was in high school and doesn't need to over-reach.
Playing within himself and the team concept is important.
His "summer school classes" in August with these lessons by Professor Krzyzewski will pay off.

[oldnavy]

I was able to watch the last 15 minutes of the game and came away with several impressions:

1. Ryan Kelly looks very good. He might be the most improved returning player.
2. Miles Plumlee made a couple nice offensive moves in the low post and knocked down a left-handed jump hook.
3. Seth Curry and Andre Dawkins are going to be very solid this coming season.
4. Austin Rivers needs some development in the decision making area. This isn't a suprise as it is August and he is a freshman.

Thanks Bob. I recorded this and will watch tonight. I am not surprised at all that Austin is not dominating. He is still essentially a high school ball player and he is playing against a national team made up of some of the best players in China, so I hope folks give him some time. He has the talent, so we all need to be patient and let the coaching take hold. I am looking forward to watching Kelly play. I thought that last year he flew well under most folks radar. If you go back to the games last year and just watch him, it is surprising how many times he impacts a play. Either deflecting a pass or making a steal, he always seems to be where he needs to be. If he can become a consistent scorer, I think he can have a break out year. I really like his game A LOT! I hope Mason has an epiphany soon.

LOVE IT, we actually have games to discuss now!!

[Wheat/"/"/"]

That was my first look at Rivers in a game. He was the quickest player on the floor and can handle the ball.

He's your typical highly talented freshman so far, learning what he can get away with the hard way. He was driving into trouble today and struggling to finish over the bigs. The slick floor didn't help his quick change of direction ability, which gets him free. He'll need to involve his teammates more and have better shot selection too. I think he's going to have to play the point, and Curry off the ball after watching this game for Duke to reach their potential.

All in all a really good looking player that just has to harness his speed and explosiveness and pick his spots better, which he will with experience.

Couple of other quick thoughts that struck me....Murphy is no Singler. The one thing about Kyle was his energy, all the time. Murphy was working, but looked slow compared to Singler. He's unlikely to be an impact guy this year, i'd say.

I really liked the look Gbinige had. He looked like the most athletic guy on the floor when he was out there. He didn't play much, and really didn't get involved much when he was in, but we'll have to watch him.

Curry is a killer, a very good 2g. He needs to be roaming around looking for a seem or a good look for the jumper. I see coach K trying to make a point and leader out of him, but my sense is its not gonna work. He a scoring guard to the bone and plays better off the ball.

[Class of '94]

It's going to be a learning experience for a while with this team so I am really glad we have these extra games. This trip is really going to help start working the kinks out -- we are going to have to improve a lot to beat Carolina. Rivers will settle down once he gets some experience. I remember that Coach K said Kyrie improved a lot from the start of practice to the beginning of the season last year. It's great to Ryan emerging and carrying over his pro-am success this year. Miles played really well, but the interior man to man defense still isn't quite there. How do you think the Chinese bigs compare to Zeller and Henson?

I think a lot of teams will have to improve significantly over the course of this season to beat Caroline; but saying that, Carolina IMO isn not going to be this great team (if it all) at the beginning of the season. They're gong to need time to come together as a team just like our guys do. That's why I'm so glad we have this trip to get a headstart on becoming a team and bonding. As far as the game, like others have said, it is only August and I was impressed that despite their mistakes, they still put up points in the 70 range; and Miles and Ryan looked good. I just wonder if Mason's strength will be playing in transition and not necessarily as a back to the basket player in the half court. But again, Mason has the rest of the summer and preseason practice to continue to work on those skills for the upcoming season. I really like the potential of this team and where it can be in March and April of this upcoming season.

[hillsborodevil]

Miles hustled
I fully expected Rivers to make freshman mistakes - more to come
Ryan is the MAN
Hoped to see more of sG


Our killer will the PG position - Seth is an excellent spot up shooter but not a PG - I politely disagree with K and staff - hope QC recovers well and gets into the rotation by Oct/Nov - he's the only shot for Duke becoming a great offensive team. If not, we will see long offensive droughts ahead.

[dcar1985]

I know winning is always important and who am I to question K but I would really have liked to see the frosh get more time especially during these exhibition games...Marshall got a DNP, Mike might have played 2 mins at the most, Alex maybe a couple more. I think its important that the freshmen get in there and are able to build some confidence. IMO frosh on some other teams ex. UK, UConn that play early build that confidence and get better quicker because they're thrown into the fire, more so than just being better players (I'd put our frosh class up against anybodys)...of course there would be ups and downs but it would benefit them in the long run....luckily we are deep enough that we dont have to throw our young guys in deep water before they can swim but in games like this I think they should be getting minutes regardless of performance

[Phoenix22]

This years team will not be a pg dominated team like last years with Irving/Smith dominating the ball. We will need to be a big time ball movement team, spreading the floor and letting everyone touch the ball and hitting the open man. The most important issue will be getting into and running the offense. That is why Curry, as a 4th year jr., will be the "point guard" as in floor leader to get the offense going. It really doesn't matter who brings the ball up. In that sense Curry and Rivers will be interchangeable. In addition, both are pretty adept and driving and dishing. Plus, we always have Throton who can come and and play tough D and play the more traditional pg role.

We have some of the best guards in the country and they can all bomb away. Here is to an exciting 11-12 season and getting it started in August!

[El_Diablo]

I know winning is always important and who am I to question K but I would really have liked to see the frosh get more time especially during these exhibition games...Marshall got a DNP, Mike might have played 2 mins at the most, Alex maybe a couple more. I think its important that the freshmen get in there and are able to build some confidence. IMO frosh on some other teams ex. UK, UConn that play early build that confidence and get better quicker because they're thrown into the fire, more so than just being better players (I'd put our frosh class up against anybodys)...of course there would be ups and downs but it would benefit them in the long run....luckily we are deep enough that we dont have to throw our young guys in deep water before they can swim but in games like this I think they should be getting minutes regardless of performance

The freshmen played more the day before, and it's also just as important (if not more important) to get our main rotation used to playing together. They looked pretty ragged at times, especially in the first half, so I understand the desire to want to keep the core players in to help them gel a little more.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

....How do you think the Chinese bigs compare to Zeller and Henson?


Both Zeller and Henson are much better than the Chinese players we saw today.

Zeller is experienced and has the complete game for a 7 footer that can hurt a team from many areas.

Henson is a mid-range jump shot away from being a true athletic beast on the floor. He plays above the rim and is much quicker than any of the Chinese players.

[roywhite]

I know winning is always important and who am I to question K but I would really have liked to see the frosh get more time especially during these exhibition games...Marshall got a DNP, Mike might have played 2 mins at the most, Alex maybe a couple more. I think its important that the freshmen get in there and are able to build some confidence. IMO frosh on some other teams ex. UK, UConn that play early build that confidence and get better quicker because they're thrown into the fire, more so than just being better players (I'd put our frosh class up against anybodys)...of course there would be ups and downs but it would benefit them in the long run....luckily we are deep enough that we dont have to throw our young guys in deep water before they can swim but in games like this I think they should be getting minutes regardless of performance

I know what you're saying, but this is a familiar objection to Coach K's style, and simply not the way he operates.

He likes to define roles for each of the players and starts systematically from the beginning. He views court time at this point as more valuable for determining roles for the first 5 or 6 guys than for the 8th, 9th, and 10th, for example.

At any rate, it's gratifying to see the master begin work on his new puzzle.

[dcar1985]

I know what you're saying, but this is a familiar objection to Coach K's style, and simply not the way he operates.

He likes to define roles for each of the players and starts systematically from the beginning. He views court time at this point as more valuable for determining roles for the first 5 or 6 guys than for the 8th, 9th, and 10th, for example.

At any rate, it's gratifying to see the master begin work on his new puzzle.

Yea I understand K's style of coaching and I actually agree with it, just saying that in this situation where we're playing ball in August it might be well served to get the young guys more involved.

[dukeballboy88]

That maybe the worst officiated game Iven ever seen in my life. The only other game that was officiated worse than that was in 09 Eastern Regionals in Greensboro whe UNC was able to hold LSU to 3-6 from the line and keep out of the bonus the entire game.

Besides the refs, I was impressed with Miles. He was playing with March intensity and finished at the rim a little better with a nice up and under move.

Ryan Kelly might be a sleeper for first team all acc! He does everything right and might have the best basketball IQ of anyone in the country.

[lotusland]

I know winning is always important and who am I to question K but I would really have liked to see the frosh get more time especially during these exhibition games...Marshall got a DNP, Mike might have played 2 mins at the most, Alex maybe a couple more. I think its important that the freshmen get in there and are able to build some confidence. IMO frosh on some other teams ex. UK, UConn that play early build that confidence and get better quicker because they're thrown into the fire, more so than just being better players (I'd put our frosh class up against anybodys)...of course there would be ups and downs but it would benefit them in the long run....luckily we are deep enough that we dont have to throw our young guys in deep water before they can swim but in games like this I think they should be getting minutes regardless of performance

The problem is are regular rotation players haven't played together enough to jell yet. You can only work so many people into the rotation. QC, Murphy and MP3 are going to have a hard time getting playing time and may benefit from a red-shirt year. We need another wing player and at this point I'd say sG over Murphy. We are 4 deep in the post without MP3 and Alex and 2-3 deep at point without QC. I'd like to see everyone play big minutes and develop but the reality is that there are a limited amt of minutes to go around and our regular rotation guys need time on the court together to jell too. We are already working in a frosh in AR and a new PG with Seth and this will be Dre first opportunity at being a regular impact player so some guys are likely going to spend much of the year watching from the sidelines.

[gwlaw99]

Any box score yet?

[oldnavy]

Sounds like the officials and the calls may have been a factor in the GT brawl. This may explain why Coach K took such an active role with the refs in the Duke game.. maybe he saw the potential for things to get out of hand and he wanted to prevent it if he could.

[PADukeMom]

It is great to see this thread again. I was streaming the game & yelling at my computer...my boss thought I was crazy.
It is so good to have my boys back although I will admit to missing Nolan & Kyle.

As far as announcing, which is the lesser of the 2 evils, Doug Gottlieb or Billy Packer? Yes I know Packer is retired but he still annoyed me like a gnat buzzing around my head.

[lotusland]

Sounds like the officials and the calls may have been a factor in the GT brawl. This may explain why Coach K took such an active role with the refs in the Duke game.. maybe he saw the potential for things to get out of hand and he wanted to prevent it if he could.

I thought for the most part our guys did a good job of not whining about questionable calls and moving on to the "next play". They seemed to know that it's to be expected and not worth throwing a tantrum over. Mostly they just smiled and maybe shook their head at some of the calls.

[lotusland]

It is great to see this thread again. I was streaming the game & yelling at my computer...my boss thought I was crazy.
It is so good to have my boys back although I will admit to missing Nolan & Kyle.

As far as announcing, which is the lesser of the 2 evils, Doug Gottlieb or Billy Packer? Yes I know Packer is retired but he still annoyed me like a gnat buzzing around my head.

Dougie definitely. I thought he was OK and nowhere near as annoying as Packer.

[dcar1985]

The problem is are regular rotation players haven't played together enough to jell yet. You can only work so many people into the rotation. QC, Murphy and MP3 are going to have a hard time getting playing time and may benefit from a red-shirt year. We need another wing player and at this point I'd say sG over Murphy. We are 4 deep in the post without MP3 and Alex and 2-3 deep at point without QC. I'd like to see everyone play big minutes and develop but the reality is that there are a limited amt of minutes to go around and our regular rotation guys need time on the court together to jell too. We are already working in a frosh in AR and a new PG with Seth and this will be Dre first opportunity at being a regular impact player so some guys are likely going to spend much of the year watching from the sidelines.

I dont know about redshirting anyone but agree that a few of the frosh aren't going to see much time....Its not that I would even like to see everyone get big minutes during the season, its not realistic in my mind. The point im making is that ITS AUGUST, we dont have this opportunity every year so it would be nice to see them getting time now. Yea of course the starters need time to gel but they'll get that once again its August, the upperclassmen will be ok....It would just be good in my opinion to get the freshmen sum extra time with this extra time.

[elvis14]

I dont know about redshirting anyone but agree that a few of the frosh aren't going to see much time....Its not that I would even like to see everyone get big minutes during the season, its not realistic in my mind. The point im making is that ITS AUGUST, we dont have this opportunity every year so it would be nice to see them getting time now. Yea of course the starters need time to gel but they'll get that once again its August, the upperclassmen will be ok....It would just be good in my opinion to get the freshmen sum extra time with this extra time.

A few times during the game I reminded myself to relax and enjoy the game more and not to worry about any negatives. Sure I would have liked to see Murphey and sG play more (and Austin play well) but at the same time....I just got to watch live Duke hoops in August...wooo hoooo! What a great morning!

[nmduke2001]

I think that we have to remember that this was an international game with international rules. Hand checking is legal and the international style is typically much more physical. It does not surprise me that our boys looked a little disjointed on offense. Guys grabbing you 30 feet from the basket makes it much more difficult to operate. I think we'll be just fine.


Both Zeller and Henson are much better than the Chinese players we saw today.
If I remember correctly, one of the Chinese 7 footers is a possible lottery pick. I think he is 18 or 19 and is slated to make the senior national team for the world championships and olympics. Perhaps he is on the level of Zeller and Henson.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Sounds like the officials and the calls may have been a factor in the GT brawl. This may explain why Coach K took such an active role with the refs in the Duke game.. maybe he saw the potential for things to get out of hand and he wanted to prevent it if he could.

I think coach K was getting on the officials to motivate his team. They were a little sloppy at the time, although there were some pretty bad calls being made so it's possible he was just pissed.

The players weren't "chippy" in this one with their fouls. The game never looked like it would get nasty or out of hand, as appears happened in the G-town game.

[dcar1985]

A few times during the game I reminded myself to relax and enjoy the game more and not to worry about any negatives. Sure I would have liked to see Murphey and sG play more (and Austin play well) but at the same time....I just got to watch live Duke hoops in August...wooo hoooo! What a great morning!

No negatives over here, I was giddy this morning lol...plus like you said hoops in August, dont get much better....I would've just loved to see more of the freshmen even if they played like crap

[gumbomoop]

Dougie definitely. I thought he was OK and nowhere near as annoying as Packer.

With some trepidation, I agree that Gottlieb, today at least, wasn't so annoying. I didn't record the game, nor did I take "Gottlieb notes," though I hope to remember to do some of that Monday, if I get to see the game.

As for today's commentary, IIRC, Gottlieb did include a dig or 2. But not all of his critical comments differed that much from our own [EK posters'] constructive criticisms. He praised Mason's athleticism, but noted several times that Mason still has a ways to go to be effective. Gottlieb was pretty positive, if surprised [again, pleasantly so, for EK posters], at Miles' strong effort, including nice O-moves. Gottlieb did not spare Austin a tart comment or 2, noting, accurately, that Austin was getting ahead of himself with some ill-advised attempts at spectacularity. K seems to have agreed with Gottlieb [and EK posters, proving that great minds.....]. Gottlieb had nothing but praise for Kelly's outstanding game. Mostly praised 3-bombers, Curry and Dawkins. Gottlieb doesn't like AR's jumper-form.

More broadly, Gottlieb's general, Duke-team-this-season, comments were mixed. He knows we have talent, but that there are questions. IIRC [but maybe I don't, and so would yield to others with better memories], the play-by-play guy pressed Gottlieb more than once re Duke's lack of a true PG. I think maybe Gottlieb's response was along the lines of, "It doesn't matter who brings it up, as the season develops AR will be an O-generator." Sound familiar?

I do not doubt that, deep in his [surely awful] heart of hearts, Gottlieb wishes us ill. Nor do I doubt that such malevolence will out itself on occasion in December [also Jan, Feb, Mar, and esp April]. But today in Shanghai, not so much. IIR[a mere 2-3 hours ago!!]C.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

If I remember correctly, one of the Chinese 7 footers is a possible lottery pick. I think he is 18 or 19 and is slated to make the senior national team for the world championships and olympics. Perhaps he is on the level of Zeller and Henson.


The big 7 footer is a nice player, lots of potential, but he's not there yet with 1/2 the moves Zeller has to score inside, or shoot it, or move his feet on D.

He can't compare with Henson at all with their opposite skill sets.

Can't recall his name and too lazy to look it up, but he was a big strong kid with good hands and a nice touch.

[oldnavy]

I think coach K was getting on the officials to motivate his team. They were a little sloppy at the time, although there were some pretty bad calls being made so it's possible he was just pissed.

The players weren't "chippy" in this one with their fouls. The game never looked like it would get nasty or out of hand, as appears happened in the G-town game.

Ok, thanks for letting me know. Like I said, I have it taped and will watch tonight. I know that "usually" when K gets on a ref it is because he is upset with the calls or lack of calls so I was making the assumption based on the call disparity I read about...

K will get on the refs to "motivate" his players at times, but most of the time he just calls a TO and screams directly at them! :) I think I have seen this happen about oh, 300 times or more.

Also, I have a hard time remembering the last time a Duke team got into a brawl on the court. There have been a few infamous dust ups between a player or two or a coach and player or even a coach and coach, but as far as a bench clearing brawl, the last one I know of was the famous UNC-Heyman-McQuire battle. Have there been others that anyone can recall?

[Kedsy]

Well, that was fun. Seems to me the five starters were by far the five guys playing the best ball right now and deserved to start and play the most minutes. All five starters scored in double-figures, something I think will happen more this season than it has in the recent past. The freshman, by and large, all looked like freshman.

Mason didn't seem to give a consistent effort, although that may have been because they called a foul on him every time he breathed. I'm starting to wonder whether he'll be able to leave after this season -- we may get lucky and get him back for his senior year (although, thinking about it, it's waaaaaaay to early to start that speculation, so I apologize for bringing it up).

We saw a few post moves from all three big men, but not many. I doubt we'll see too many more during the season, leading me to believe that lack of post offense will be the #2 complaint on the board for the 6th straight year. (The #1 complaint, of course, will be that K doesn't play the freshmen enough.)

Yesterday we were talking about our low percentage from three, but I didn't realize they were playing with a line so close to the NBA line. It helps explain Austin's 1 for 5 yesterday and Seth's 3 for 12. Although having said that, my guess without seeing a box score is our percentage was higher today.

Andre moved more and was more assertive than he has been in the past, but still not enough if he wants to be the all-league player that I think he can become.


Ryan is rounding into a fine player who will give a consistent effort and occasionally have a big scoring night. He's the guy out there that other teams might slack off of to help on Austin's drives (because Seth/Dre will keep defenders out past the 3 pt line) and Ryan has a great opportunity to take advantage of that this year.

I expect Ryan to consistently score 10 to 15 points a game for us. He will be one of the team's stars.


That was my first look at Rivers in a game. He was the quickest player on the floor and can handle the ball.

He's your typical highly talented freshman so far, learning what he can get away with the hard way.

...

I think he's going to have to play the point, and Curry off the ball after watching this game for Duke to reach their potential.


I am currently thinking we might see a Harrison Barnes-like progression for Austin -- a bit rocky in the beginning of the season but a superstar by the end.

Watching the game I had the same thought, that Austin may have to end up playing the point in another one of those late season makeovers we've seen so often in recent seasons. Not necessarily because Seth can't do the job, but just because it could get awkward with two guys who both seem to want to play the same position. Letting Austin play to his instincts while Seth embraces a scorer's role might make the offense run more smoothly. On defense, Seth would have to continue guarding the PG position, though.

Having said all that, Gottlieb kept saying that Seth had been the most impressive Duke player in the practices, so it might just have been the physical perimeter defense (more or less illegal in the US) that made Seth (and Austin) appear a bit tentative.


I know winning is always important and who am I to question K but I would really have liked to see the frosh get more time

I predict we will hear similar sentiments for most of the season. I don't think we're going to see all that much of Alex, Mike, Quinn, or Marshall in games, at least not once the calendar turns to 2012. I know everybody loves Mike's athleticism and the fact that Quinn is a "true" PG, but if I had to guess it will be Alex who will see the most playing time of the four. Even then, I'm thinking he'll be the 8th man in the rotation.


Dougie definitely. I thought he was OK and nowhere near as annoying as Packer.

I agree. I actually thought Gottlieb was pretty good today. He didn't show his anti-Duke bias nearly as much as, say, Len Elmore.


Plus, we always have Throton who can come and and play tough D and play the more traditional pg role.

That's a new one.

[Olympic Fan]

Just one more note about the mysterious David Mayer.

I don't know what goduke says about him, but I have Duke's final stats from last season and Mayer did not play one minute of one game. Just to be clear. He did NOT play for Duke in 2010-11, so it's hard to count him as a loss.

Now, they could have counted Casey Peters, who played 17 minutes last season, but not Mayer.

[dchen09]

http://slide.sports.sina.com.cn/k/slide_2_786_15728.html

Some pics from the game. Not very flattering ones though.

[Reilly]

I believe David Mayer is PPS Professor Fritz Mayer's son. Fritz played some sort of ball in England, I believe.

Edit to add Dec 2010 Chronicle item:

Freshman guard David Mayer must have done something to impress head coach Mike Krzyzewski during his practices with the team because the 6-foot-4 guard from Durham was just added earlier this afternoon to the men’s basketball roster.
The news came through a Twitter post from Duke Blue Planet that read:
Congrats to David Mayer who was officially added to the squad after working hard as a practice player. Dave is a 6’4″ G from Durham.
The 195-pound Riverside High School graduate averaged on a per-game basis 2.3 points, .3 blocks, 1 rebound and .3 steals in the three games he played his senior year, according to his profile page on MaxPreps.com.
This addition is reminiscent of last year when 6-foot-9 forward Todd Zafirovski was added to the squad following Olek Czyz’s decision to transfer to Nevada.

http://sports.chronicleblogs.com/2010/12/13/mayer-added-to-duke-basketball-roster/

[Olympic Fan]

The box score has been posted on goduke ...

https://www.nmnathletics.com//pdf8/780622.pdf?&ATCLID=205244505&SPSID=22724&SPID=1845&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=4200

Some ugly numbers for the freshmen (especially Austin's 7 TOs ... ouch), but solid numbers for the veterans ... surprised to see that MP3 didn't see action.

It's frustrating that the two boxes from China so far don't show minutes played.

[Reilly]

... ugly numbers for the freshmen (especially Austin's 7 TOs ... ouch....

Hyped frosh trying to do too much in his first game? Jason Williams, Nov 11, 1999 (6 TOs):

http://goduke.statsgeek.com/basketball-m/games/boxscore.php?gameid=19991111

Similar lines across:
AR: 5/16, 7 TOs, 12 pts
JW: 3/15, 6 TOs, 13 pts

[sdotbarbee]

First off that was a tough game to watch with all the silly fouls that were called so I can only imagine how tough it would have been to play in. Apparently a player can't reach in and strip the ball in international play because we were called for that countless number of times. China took 32 free throws compared to our 10, not to mention we only hit 3 of those 10. All five of our starters were in double figures and we did shoot right at 50% from the field so it wasn't all bad.

[uh_no]

First off that was a tough game to watch with all the silly fouls that were called so I can only imagine how tough it would have been to play in. Apparently a player can't reach in and strip the ball in international play because we were called for that countless number of times. China took 32 free throws compared to our 10, not to mention we only hit 3 of those 10. All five of our starters were in double figures and we did shoot right at 50% from the field so it wasn't all bad.

still not as atrocious as the georgetown game....something like 58-15 on the FT margin.....

I think part of it is the different style....part of it....

[DukeGirl4ever]

Thanks Bob. I recorded this and will watch tonight. I am not surprised at all that Austin is not dominating. He is still essentially a high school ball player and he is playing against a national team made up of some of the best players in China, so I hope folks give him some time.

I apologize if someone posted this already since I only got to page 3....

If you watched the highlights on ESPN today, though, you would have thought he dominated. It was an Austin Rivers highlight reel, and I thought it was quite sickening. I did not think Austin played well...he forced things and he missed a number of wide open players to create a shot for himself. However, I think ESPN showed every basket he scored and didn't even mention Ryan Kelly, who I thought was the Man of the Match.

Having said that, I get it. I get that he's a coach's kid. I get that he was one of the best high school players in the nation. I just don't want to see everyone anoint him the next savior, because he's got a lot to learn. The good thing is, he came to the best place on Earth to learn the game.

[MChambers]

China took 32 free throws compared to our 10, not to mention we only hit 3 of those 10.

Will Miles be our leading free throw shooter (2 of 4 today -- or yesterday or tomorrow, whatever day it is in China).

[sporthenry]

Duke needs to have these trips every year. Although this trip could be worse for my withdrawal as I'm just getting a taste. Anyways, I will overanalyze everything b/c this is all we have.

I think the whole back court had some questionable decisions, not just Austin. However, experience definitely showed towards the end when Austin tried to do too much and Curry pulled it out. Something else to note is that Curry and Dawkins played the shooter role last year and today they fired at will. They will undoubtedly be forced to handle the ball more and I would like a bit more discretion at shooting the 3 since between the 3 of them, we can get a 3 at pretty much any time.

I think Murphy and G will play the roles like Dawkins or Thornton the past few years where their minutes will be very sporadic. I think we will see them in certain situations or games that require it and they will be given the opportunity to provide the spark but won't get the consistent minutes some think. I think their most important situations will be when our guards get in foul trouble or guarding someone like HB. I was very impressed with the guard's ability to cover the China team since I think they had a distinct height advantage at every position. And HB hasn't exactly proven a penchant to post up so it will be interesting to see if Dre can cover him. That said, I think G will be very important in that role and was disappointed to see that K thinks he hasn't progressed enough to this point.

Thornton and Hairston both looked solid in their time. He will be the solid defenser and good faciliator in the offense really reminds me of a Dockery type ready to contribute some this year. Hairston will definitely see some time with foul trouble looming but I think Hairston will have a good year with the Lance Thomas role. Solid defender who will get after it on both sides, will rebound and recognize his role.

It is really nice to see Kelly continue to improve. Now that he is comfortable with his mid range/dribble I think he will be a force. He can still shoot the 3 but won't be resigned to either the block or the 3 point line. I think the battle between Henson and Kelly should be a good one. Kelly is a great post defender but will need to work on his lateral quickness (as Gottlieb did point out) and also hope Henson still can't shoot.

As far as the comparison between these big men and UNCs big men. I would say that the gap isn't that far. Zeller is more refined but seems more afraid of contact than the Chinese C was. Henson is athletic but his offensive game up to this point is limited. And that doesn't take into account the European offense that China employed with getting their bigs fronted that I don't think we'll see UNC use where their big men prefer to get the defender on his back. The biggest difference will be the defense where Miles basic drop step won't work on Zeller and Henson obviously provides that athletic defender you need to account for although I will say some of Kelly's moves wouldn't have been affected by Henson. With that said, Mason and Mile need that hook shot. I suspect they got an inspirational speech from K though b/c they looked like different players in the 2nd half. I think we will see a concerted effot to get them the ball on the block just to keep them involved and keep the defense honest.

The offense will be interesting to see how it develops. I think we'll see a combination of a selective fast break team who then slows it down if they don't get out on the break. With all our bigs ability to run the floor, having Dre and Curry on the wings and all 3 guards ability to pull up in transition with Dre and Curry's improved dribbling will give us a formative fast break. But after that, I think Duke's offense will be running a full offense that will take up most of the 35. Granted these scrimmages aren't great b/c of the 24 clock but I feel that Duke will need to use the full extent of their presumed motion offense in order to avoid huge droughts and slow the game down a bit. 35 seconds with the weapons, they should get a decent shot and worst case scenario is Rivers driving (which appears at will) or Curry/Dre taking a contested shot which both have shown to hit w/ good frequency considering its contested.

On defense, I think we'll see a decent amount of gambling from the likes or AR and Seth which will lead to fast break chances but also the need for a lot of help defense. Dre will be important b/c he will probably have a size mismatch and will need to cover someone like HB. But the biggest thing will be providing help defense at the rim with some success and no fouling, something Duke has struggled with recently.

[wk2109]

Just one more note about the mysterious David Mayer.

I don't know what goduke says about him, but I have Duke's final stats from last season and Mayer did not play one minute of one game. Just to be clear. He did NOT play for Duke in 2010-11, so it's hard to count him as a loss.

Now, they could have counted Casey Peters, who played 17 minutes last season, but not Mayer.

It depends on what you mean by a "loss." If the requirement is that a player has to get at least a minute of playing time to be considered a loss, then you're right. But I think ESPN (and goduke.com) was just looking at players who were on the roster last year and who aren't on the roster this year. As a fan, I have no idea what role David Mayer played on the team behind closed doors, but isn't the role of a walk-on to challenge the scholarship players during practice? If he did that, then he played a role on the team.

BTW here's the goduke.com reference to David Mayer being a loss: http://www.goduke.com/fls/4200/web-docs/2011-12_MBB_Quick_Facts.pdf

[Kedsy]

It's frustrating that the two boxes from China so far don't show minutes played.

The photographed box score from yesterday did have minutes played. Marshall played 5; Mike, Alex, Tyler, Josh, and Mason all played betwen 12 and 16; Andre, Miles, Ryan, Austin, and Seth all played between 23 and 28. Haven't seen that for today's game.


Dre will be important b/c he will probably have a size mismatch and will need to cover someone like HB. But the biggest thing will be providing help defense at the rim with some success and no fouling, something Duke has struggled with recently.

I think Andre is an average-sized college SF. Yes, he's smaller than HB, but I don't think too many college teams play skilled SFs as tall as HB.

[uh_no]

Duke needs to have these trips every year.

While nice, its against NCAA regulations to go more than once every 3(?) years, and likely ridiculously expensive.

[Kedsy]

The box score has been posted on goduke ...

https://www.nmnathletics.com//pdf8/780622.pdf?&ATCLID=205244505&SPSID=22724&SPID=1845&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=4200

Some ugly numbers for the freshmen (especially Austin's 7 TOs ... ouch), but solid numbers for the veterans ... surprised to see that MP3 didn't see action.

Austin turned the ball over a lot, but the team TO number (14) was a vast improvement over yesterday (24). China's A/TO ratio was 3 to 20. Talk about "ouch."

[sporthenry]

While nice, its against NCAA regulations to go more than once every 3(?) years, and likely ridiculously expensive.

They are only allowed once every 4 years. I said it partly in jest but if college sports really is a business, you put on a Duke or UNC game vs a good foreign team at 8 PM on a Tuesday night during the dog days of August and you want to talk about a rating coup. ESPN is already doings its WSOP, E60, 30 for 30's at nights so I'm sure they'd want sports.

Finances are another issue and I have no idea although I'm sure the fans on the trip are picking up a nice chunk. Also not sure what they get from ticket or TV revenues. It would undoubtedly be a huge advantage to bigger programs as it already is since most smaller programs can't even afford one trip every 4 years but from a Duke fan, it is really enjoyable to see them on the court especially the freshmen since it usually takes forever to see them in game situations.

[loldevilz]

The photographed box score from yesterday did have minutes played. Marshall played 5; Mike, Alex, Tyler, Josh, and Mason all played betwen 12 and 16; Andre, Miles, Ryan, Austin, and Seth all played between 23 and 28. Haven't seen that for today's game.



I think Andre is an average-sized college SF. Yes, he's smaller than HB, but I don't think too many college teams play skilled SFs as tall as HB.

Andre is not a small forward. He is a pure shooting guard. As a small forward he is definitely undersized and does not move or defend very well.

I definitely hope we see more of Gbinije, because he can really defend and has a much higher basketball iq than Dawkins.

[NashvilleDevil]

I definitely hope we see more of Gbinije, because he can really defend and has a much higher basketball iq than Dawkins.

And you're basing Gbinije's higher bball IQ on what exactly? The few minutes that he played today?

[loldevilz]

And you're basing Gbinije's higher bball IQ on what exactly? The few minutes that he played today?

Well to start off with Coach K said that Gbinije has the highest basketball iq of anybody he's recruited.

[MChambers]

Well to start off with Coach K said that Gbinije has the highest basketball iq of anybody he's recruited.

When did he say this? I must have missed it.

[sporthenry]

I think Andre is an average-sized college SF. Yes, he's smaller than HB, but I don't think too many college teams play skilled SFs as tall as HB.

Well college basketball you can get away with a lot. Duke tradtionally goes with a guard at the 3 like Demarcus or even I think JJ played some 3. That said, many consider AR to be a combo guard yet him and Dre looked to be identical in size. Most of the best SF in the game today are 6'6 to 6'8. HB, Gilchrist, Kris Joseph to name a few. Looking at the Maui Invite, Gtown will have a 6'7 Hollis Thompson, KU will have a 6'6 Releford, Memphis has Witherspoon at 6'9 or Barton at 6'6, UT has a 6'6 Tatum. So best case scenario is that the other team has a 6'4 or 6'5 SF which isn't unheard of but more times than not against top teams, they will likely have a taller SF.

That said, Dre is athletic and he can get up with people at the rim, his lateral quickness just seems to be lacking. But if he just gets a little quicker, perhaps he put on too much muscle like Ryan Kelly or Miles did and just becomes a better handler and the Ray Allen comparisons aren't too far off. I personally see a very long NBA career ahead for him at SG, just needs to learn to defend but going against HB will just help.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

As far as the comparison between these big men and UNCs big men. I would say that the gap isn't that far. Zeller is more refined but seems more afraid of contact than the Chinese C was. Henson is athletic but his offensive game up to this point is limited. And that doesn't take into account the European offense that China employed with getting their bigs fronted that I don't think we'll see UNC use where their big men prefer to get the defender on his back. The biggest difference will be the defense where Miles basic drop step won't work on Zeller and Henson obviously provides that athletic defender you need to account for although I will say some of Kelly's moves wouldn't have been affected by Henson. With that said, Mason and Mile need that hook shot. I suspect they got an inspirational speech from K though b/c they looked like different players in the 2nd half. I think we will see a concerted effot to get them the ball on the block just to keep them involved and keep the defense honest.



With all due respect, I think you under-estimate Henson's offense. He averaged almost 12 points a game last season and shot 50% behind HB's 15+ and Zeller's 15+ a game. And that's after his horrid 48% free throw shooting that leaves points on the table each game. He can score a variety of ways, and does. His little up and under move from the left side is hard to guard, for example. His FT and shooting form got much better as the season went along and he started confidently taking that 10-12 footer face up jumper. When that clicks, and I think it eventually will because the form is good, you'll see a top five draft pick player.

I don't see Zeller shying away from contact as much as I see a player that lacks a "nose" for the ball. I've always argued his rebounding instincts are just not that great and players are beating him to the spots on the floor. It's causing him to him reach and try not to foul, which i'll admit can make him appear soft, I guess.


Mason is an enigma. He has every physical talent you could ask for and just can't quite seem to get it. He's a Jr. now and at some point we have to wonder if he ever will. I ask myself why he does not use his quickness and strength to get down low and seal off his space, (like you know who, a guy his same size and not as athletic did in recent years:).
To be sure he could be taught a baby jump hook from 3 feet? And that's a spot on the floor and a shot he could get every time if he wanted with his size, strength and quickness. All he needs is the entry pass, and to not foul out first, but that's another issue.

Kelly is growing into a good player as a big wing. He is showing a good feel for the game and is letting it come to him. He's a spot up shooter more than off the dribble, but his dribble is starting to open up space for him after a kick out pass from the driver. And he's knocking them down from mid-range. He finishes pretty well around the basket. As he gets more confidence, he'll get more active around the hoop too. He has improved and will play a big role for Duke this season.

[CDu]

Great game from Kelly and Miles. Kelly was easily the player of the game. He showed a variety of moves and great shooting touch. He has an international style of game, so it shouldn't be shocking. But still very nice to see. Miles was very active on the boards and had a few nice moves around the basket.

Another tough shooting night for Curry and Rivers. I think the extended international 3pt line is a big part of it. These guys were often taking shots a couple of feet beyond that line, which is already further than the college line. I'm not terribly worried about their shooting abilities - just the shot discretion.

Another thing that's important to note is that the 24-second shot clock makes a big difference. There were a TON of possession in which we didn't get the offense started quickly and wound up with a player dribbling 25 feet from the basket with 5-6 seconds left on the shot clock. That resulted in a lot of forced threes. In the college game, we'd have another 11 seconds to set things up. Credit goes to Gottlieb for pointing this out.

These two games haven't shown much to suggest improvement in Mason's offensive game. He looks like the same great leaper with limited moves as he has been the past two years. Miles and Kelly look to be a good bit ahead of Mason right now. They looked very solid.

I thought this game was probably a better reflection of what Coach K will do this year with regard to playing time. Rivers/Curry/Dawkins/Kelly/Miles/Mason/Thornton will get regular playing time. It'll be the usual 8/9-man rotation.

[sporthenry]

With all due respect, I think you under-estimate Henson's offense. He averaged almost 12 points a game last season and shot 50% behind HB's 15+ and Zeller's 15+ a game. And that's after his horrid 48% free throw shooting that leaves points on the table each game. He can score a variety of ways, and does. His little up and under move from the left side is hard to guard, for example. His FT and shooting form got much better as the season went along and he started confidently taking that 10-12 footer face up jumper. When that clicks, and I think it eventually will because the form is good, you'll see a top five draft pick player.

I don't see Zeller shying away from contact as much as I see a player that lacks a "nose" for the ball. I've always argued his rebounding instincts are just not that great and players are beating him to the spots on the floor. It's causing him to him reach and try not to foul, which i'll admit can make him appear soft, I guess.


Mason is an enigma. He has every physical talent you could ask for and just can't quite seem to get it. He's a Jr. now and at some point we have to wonder if he ever will. I ask myself why he does not use his quickness and strength to get down low and seal off his space, (like you know who, a guy his same size and not as athletic did in recent years:).
To be sure he could be taught a baby jump hook from 3 feet? And that's a spot on the floor and a shot he could get every time if he wanted with his size, strength and quickness. All he needs is the entry pass, and to not foul out first, but that's another issue.

I'm not really saying Henson is terrible on offense but just that I don't really see his offense getting that much better without that jump shot. And any guy who airballs consecutive free throws I have a few doubts about. We will see but Duke is unchanged from last year up front and Henson rebounded well but in games went 4-15 for 10 points, 4-10 for 10 points, and 7-15 for 14 points. And he only left 5 points on the FT line in those 3 games. And people have said with Kelly losing weight he is a bit more agile although he didn't get burned once today. Henson did have that nice up and under but I would suspect he will be forced to make that shot to be any type of effective b/c Kelly is stronger and probably won't respect him enough to get to the rim.

Meanwhile, Zeller is the guy who killed Duke. But my point is Zeller is no Sullinger. Zeller has great post moves but won't throw his weight around from what I've seen so I'm not really worried he will kill Duke more than he did last year and towards the end they figured him out a bit.

The biggest thing will just be HB developing more and Marshall learning to put the ball in the hoop. Well that and the fact Duke lost their offense.

Today really did nothing to show if Mason developed any moves. He didn't find himself on the block too much and Chinese size seemed to bother him a bit. He looked lost to start with the alley oop and such but seemed to settle in towards the end but still didn't show any developments on offense.

[gam7]

Great game from Kelly and Miles. Kelly was easily the player of the game. He showed a variety of moves and great shooting touch. He has an international style of game, so it shouldn't be shocking. But still very nice to see. Miles was very active on the boards and had a few nice moves around the basket.

Another tough shooting night for Curry and Rivers. I think the extended international 3pt line is a big part of it. These guys were often taking shots a couple of feet beyond that line, which is already further than the college line. I'm not terribly worried about their shooting abilities - just the shot discretion.

Another thing that's important to note is that the 24-second shot clock makes a big difference. There were a TON of possession in which we didn't get the offense started quickly and wound up with a player dribbling 25 feet from the basket with 5-6 seconds left on the shot clock. That resulted in a lot of forced threes. In the college game, we'd have another 11 seconds to set things up. Credit goes to Gottlieb for pointing this out.

These two games haven't shown much to suggest improvement in Mason's offensive game. He looks like the same great leaper with limited moves as he has been the past two years. Miles and Kelly look to be a good bit ahead of Mason right now. They looked very solid.

I thought this game was probably a better reflection of what Coach K will do this year with regard to playing time. Rivers/Curry/Dawkins/Kelly/Miles/Mason/Thornton will get regular playing time. It'll be the usual 8/9-man rotation.

I think ESPN's highlights of today's game give a taste of what we should expect to see on highlight shows this season. Even in a very inefficient game for Austin, literally every single highlight was of Rivers: Rivers layups, Rivers 3 pointers, Rivers rolling an ankle, etc. There was not a single word about any other player despite the nice performances by Kelly and Miles. In sports media eyes, this is unquestionably the Austin Rivers era (or year, as the case may be).

[Kedsy]

Andre is not a small forward. He is a pure shooting guard. As a small forward he is definitely undersized and does not move or defend very well.

Since shooting guards are generally quicker than small forwards, I don't understand why you think he can't "move" well enough to guard small forwards but that he can defend shooting guards?

Putting that aside, Andre played a decent amount at the 3 last year and I thought he defended pretty well, including against HB. From what I've read and heard, his defense looked improved in the August practices. He will play a lot this year, and almost exclusively at the 3, which makes him a small forward, not a "pure shooting guard."


I definitely hope we see more of Gbinije, because he can really defend and has a much higher basketball iq than Dawkins.

I saw your post about K saying Mike has a high basketball IQ, but since we've seen about two minutes of Mike on the court, the above statement might be a bit premature. My guess is at this moment Andre is a significantly better defender at the college level. In a year or two, Mike may surpass Andre's current defensive skill, but probably not yet. We certainly have no way to tell so far.


That said, many consider AR to be a combo guard yet him and Dre looked to be identical in size.

They may be identical in height, but Andre is much bigger. He has to outweigh Austin by 30 or 40 pounds.

A 6'5" player with some muscle on him (like Andre, but not Austin) should not appear outsized against a 6'6" or even 6'7" wing player, unless that player is a physical freak. When you get to 6'8" or 6'9" wings, Andre will be outsized, but I'll stick with my statement that very few college teams can boast such a player.


Duke is unchanged from last year up front...

Actually, I think we're much better up front than we were last year (assuming you don't include the small forward in that comparison).

[roywhite]

2011-12 roster from GoDuke.com (http://www.goduke.com/SportSelect.dbml?DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=4200&SPID=1845&SPSID=22727)

For what it's worth, the roster from goduke.com lists both Dawkins and Rivers at 6'4" and 200#

The roywhite eye test (totally unscientific and with no reliance on artificial measures like cinder blocks) would say Rivers is a shade taller and Dawkins may have 10 to 15 pounds on AR.

[sagegrouse]

Actually, I think we're much better up front than we were last year (assuming you don't include the small forward in that comparison).

I thought the China big men were incredibly good. Our big guys held their own -- barely. The China guards were totally overmatched against Duke.

Now here's my proposal. Take one or two of the smartest guys to play basketball at Duke -- like Trajan and Quin Snyder -- and send them to the Duke campus in China to either teach or be administrators. That's their cover, but their real job is to get a pipeline of talented seven-footers to come to Duke.

sagegrouse

[licc85]

As far as the comparison between these big men and UNCs big men. I would say that the gap isn't that far. Zeller is more refined but seems more afraid of contact than the Chinese C was. Henson is athletic but his offensive game up to this point is limited. And that doesn't take into account the European offense that China employed with getting their bigs fronted that I don't think we'll see UNC use where their big men prefer to get the defender on his back. The biggest difference will be the defense where Miles basic drop step won't work on Zeller and Henson obviously provides that athletic defender you need to account for although I will say some of Kelly's moves wouldn't have been affected by Henson. With that said, Mason and Mile need that hook shot. I suspect they got an inspirational speech from K though b/c they looked like different players in the 2nd half. I think we will see a concerted effot to get them the ball on the block just to keep them involved and keep the defense honest.


More on the talented 7-footer on the Chinese squad. His name is Wang Zhelin (#14), he is 17 years old (holy crap), and already has the post moves of an upperclassman in college. I think this guy definitely has a future in the NBA. He's incredibly young, and already has an enormously high skill level, and has extremely good body control for a 7-footer. I don't think he's anywhere near as talented or has the star potential of Yao Ming, but I think he's definitely a true center, and is loads more talented than his current NBA counterpart, Yi Jianlian.

Also, I don't know about everyone else, but I thought Ryan Kelly was just doing the same thing he did all last year. His role has just increased. I don't see this as a VAST improvement, he's always been an extremely smart player with unbelievable skill on offense. I guess losing 10 pounds did make him a bit quicker, but he's always been this good. I was both shocked and a bit confused when the Duke Basketball Blog called "Big Duke Balls" rated him as just the 47th best player in the ACC, when I've been thinking since last season ended he was a top 3 player on this team.

[Kedsy]

2011-12 roster from GoDuke.com (http://www.goduke.com/SportSelect.dbml?DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=4200&SPID=1845&SPSID=22727)

For what it's worth, the roster from goduke.com lists both Dawkins and Rivers at 6'4" and 200#

The roywhite eye test (totally unscientific and with no reliance on artificial measures like cinder blocks) would say Rivers is a shade taller and Dawkins may have 10 to 15 pounds on AR.

Wow, that's a surprise to me. To me, Andre looks pretty big across the chest and shoulders, and Austin appears to be a stick. Also, I thought I read they were both 6'5", although maybe that's with shoes. Obviously I won't argue with the official roster, but it surprises me.

[CDu]

Also, I don't know about everyone else, but I thought Ryan Kelly was just doing the same thing he did all last year. His role has just increased. I don't see this as a VAST improvement, he's always been an extremely smart player with unbelievable skill on offense. I guess losing 10 pounds did make him a bit quicker, but he's always been this good. I was both shocked and a bit confused when the Duke Basketball Blog called "Big Duke Balls" rated him as just the 47th best player in the ACC, when I've been thinking since last season ended he was a top 3 player on this team.

The big difference was that he made a couple of nice moves off the dribble for scores. Aside from that, he was shooting a lot of perimeter jumpers, which is indeed a lot like last year. But he showed a bit more versatility (or perhaps more accurately a bit more ability to show of his diverse offensive skillset) today.

I think Kelly has probably had these tools for a few years. He just didn't have the comfort/confidence/athleticism to use them. I guess it remains to be seen if this carries over to US play, but it seems like he might have made the adjustments (either physical or psychological or both).

[Kedsy]

His name is Wang Zhelin (#14), he is 17 years old (holy crap), and already has the post moves of an upperclassman in college.

He's only 17? I thought I heard the announcers today say he was 19.

[devildeac]

Not sure if today's box score has been linked yet:

https://www.nmnathletics.com//pdf8/780622.pdf?&ATCLID=205244505&SPSID=22724&SPID=1845&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=4200

[licc85]

I thought the China big men were incredibly good. Our big guys held their own -- barely. The China guards were totally overmatched against Duke.

Now here's my proposal. Take one or two of the smartest guys to play basketball at Duke -- like Trajan and Quin Snyder -- and send them to the Duke campus in China to either teach or be administrators. That's their cover, but their real job is to get a pipeline of talented seven-footers to come to Duke.

sagegrouse

As much as I would love for this to come to fruition . . . the Chinese government would never allow it. They wouldn't risk having their most prized athletes defecting to the states. It's a testament to the outdated and ineffective development system in china. Athletes are trained from when they are 3 or 4, and if you go to college to become a student, you cannot be an athlete. It's an archaic system which hinders the country's great potential for sports, and I think allowing kids to go become student athletes in the U.S. would be fantastic for both parties, but it won't happen as things currently are.

[sporthenry]

They may be identical in height, but Andre is much bigger. He has to outweigh Austin by 30 or 40 pounds.

A 6'5" player with some muscle on him (like Andre, but not Austin) should not appear outsized against a 6'6" or even 6'7" wing player, unless that player is a physical freak. When you get to 6'8" or 6'9" wings, Andre will be outsized, but I'll stick with my statement that very few college teams can boast such a player.


Actually, I think we're much better up front than we were last year (assuming you don't include the small forward in that comparison).

I would highly doubt he has 30-40 pounds on him. That is a ton for a 6'4-6'5 guy. And a lot of that will probably be b/c AR is a freshman. A 6'6-6'7 SF will probably be built very similar to Dre so he won't have any weight advantage. Luckily, most teams never post up SF probably b/c they don't have the post moves and 6'4 SF can get by but its not ideal. And there have been questions about Dre's lateral quickness which is probably the one thing along with his ball handling that holds him back from being a Ray Allen. So he is a bit of a college tweener b/c he doesn't appear quick enough to cover the college 2 or big enough to cover the 3. Perhaps I'm wrong and I would like to be and I think Dre might have lost some muscle along with Ryan to make them move around better on the defensive end.

As far as bigs, I wasn't really getting into development, I would hope we get better but my main point is that last year, Duke contained Zeller and Henson esp. after the first meeting so I wouldn't suspect them to kill us since our front line remains unchanged. I meant it more from a defensive stand point and I would agree ultimately both team's front courts will probably get better so I'm just holding development equal for the moment and saying that Duke returns everyone, UNC returns Henson/Zeller and trade McAdoo for Knox. While McAdoo will be good, remains to be seen how he will be used and I won't speculate too much what he will bring.

[licc85]

He's only 17? I thought I heard the announcers today say he was 19.

Here's his FIBA profile: http://www.fiba.com/pages/eng/fe/11/fu19m/player/p/eid/5194/lid//pid/83948/rid//sid/5194/tid/262/profile.html
here's his DraftExpress profile: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Wang-Zhelin-6352/

By both accounts, he's 17, but then again, who can be really sure of how old any chinese athlete REALLY is? He certainly looks very young to me, and he's going to gain a great deal more weight by the time he hits the NBA, can't wait to see how he does, I'm already a fan. If he had our guards feeding him the ball in the right spots, this guy could really dominate. His defense does need some work however.

I was looking at his stats on the box score . . . how did he end up with only 6 points if he went 4-12 from the field and 6-10 from the foul line?? So much incompetence . . .

[sporthenry]

The big difference was that he made a couple of nice moves off the dribble for scores. Aside from that, he was shooting a lot of perimeter jumpers, which is indeed a lot like last year. But he showed a bit more versatility (or perhaps more accurately a bit more ability to show of his diverse offensive skillset) today.

I think Kelly has probably had these tools for a few years. He just didn't have the comfort/confidence/athleticism to use them. I guess it remains to be seen if this carries over to US play, but it seems like he might have made the adjustments (either physical or psychological or both).

The development of a mid range game or as you say, the confidence to use them is definitely something different from last year. He never looked comfortable dribbling. He seemed to either shoot the 3 or play under the basket. But those fade aways that he hit without thinking twice and the mid range game even with the low arc shot are a welcome development just b/c he can't have games like the UNC one where he goes 0 for from 3 and not be involved. Now he can find offense even on bad nights. He really did look like a European forward. He will be another mismatch to exploit as a 4 who can dribble.

[dcar1985]

Wow, that's a surprise to me. To me, Andre looks pretty big across the chest and shoulders, and Austin appears to be a stick. Also, I thought I read they were both 6'5", although maybe that's with shoes. Obviously I won't argue with the official roster, but it surprises me.


Even though its considered to be the "official" roster those look to be pretty generalized height and weights (no 3/4 or 1/2, all the weights being rounded to the nearest 5)...I'd like to see some official official numbers just out of curiosity, also maybe it was just me but there were a couple moments in todays game were it appeared Dre was slightly taller than Austin. Im in agreement that Dre does look pretty big across the chest but maybe he has lost weight as he does appear much leaner and more defined.

[CDu]

Wow, that's a surprise to me. To me, Andre looks pretty big across the chest and shoulders, and Austin appears to be a stick. Also, I thought I read they were both 6'5", although maybe that's with shoes. Obviously I won't argue with the official roster, but it surprises me.

Yeah, I'd have guessed both to be in the 6'4" range, and Dawkins to be maybe 10-15 lbs heavier (definitely not 30-40 lbs - that'd be the difference between a WR and a linebacker). Dawkins looks a bit more muscular, but weights are always weird.

[dchen09]

Dawkins and Rivers are actually listed at the same height a weight. Don't know if that really means anything but Dawkins does look much better than Rivers.

[dukelifer]

Here are one man's thoughts and observations of the game and Duke players - http://bluedevilnation.net/2011/08/duke-vs-china-olympic-game-2-thoughts-and-observations/

Good analysis. In general, this team is going to have its challenges during the year. Rivers is a talented kid- but he is not patient and does not change speeds well. That what was so great about Kyrie for the short time we saw him play in a Duke uniform. The kid understood when to go fast and when to go slow. Rivers has a lot to learn about the game of bball at a high level. He will get there- but it may take a while. His natural instincts are to attack always. Be prepared for many mistakes along the way as he learns. This team will need a steadying influence. Kelly looks to be that guy. I really like his in-between game. Much better than seeing him parked in the corner shooting threes. He will have his challenges against more athletic bigs but I expect he is going to have a very solid season. Miles looks stronger and could be a beast this year rebounding the ball. Mason's game was hard to judge but seemed to have the same problems he has always had when he has to create with his back to the basket. Dawkins and Curry will be fine and should be able to give a lift on O. Both are good- but the question is will they be great in critical moments. I thought the other frosh would bring a bit more to the table- but they are not there yet. May need to wait until February. All in all, this team should be solid and reasonably deep- but without a steadying point guard- I am not so sure they can be elite. It could be one of those seasons with a few items tossed at the TV.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

I'm not sure what to think about this Duke team just yet. As a couple of people have mentioned, the short shot clock kept them from getting any offensive flow going today.

Personally, I don't think a team can win a title without some strong low post play. At least strong enough to open it up for shooters.

Someone will have to step up around the basket like Zoubek did in Duke's last championship season.

It will be interesting to see how they they gel to their roles and teammates when the ball movement gets going. If they become a unselfish/close team and really move without the ball and pop-n-pick for each other, give up that pass quick and confidently, they can be really good.

Duke will score the ball most nights. Its a team that thinks scoring. If Curry and Rivers can find a way to "click' together without either needing to be "the man", they will score a lot.

But lets be real here...replacing the experience and leadership, and the quality of play produced on the floor, of Singler and Smith is a huge task this year.

[Kedsy]

(definitely not 30-40 lbs - that'd be the difference between a WR and a linebacker)

Well, I was thinking Austin weighed about 180 and Andre weighed about 210 or a little more. Which is the difference between a wide receiver and someone too skinny to play football.

Obviously, I was wrong. They're both too skinny to play football.

[Acymetric]

Well, I was thinking Austin weighed about 180 and Andre weighed about 210 or a little more. Which is the difference between a wide receiver and someone too skinny to play football.

Obviously, I was wrong. They're both too skinny to play football.

What? There are definitely players in college who play DB/WR who are under 200. I might even go so far as to say there are a lot who fall into that category.

[NM Duke Fan]

And not just in college. In decades of watching the NFL, I have seen many a CB or WR at around 5'11" and 185 to 190 lbs. These days they seem to carry maybe 5 lbs more than that fairly often, but many of the good ones over the years have been around that size.

[jipops]

I have only been able to watch the 1st half so far and though many have labeled the play rather sloppy, I'm actually very impressed. First and foremost is the great defense out there. I love the ball denial how and our guys shut down passing lanes to the post. Once fatigue set in the intensity did fade a bit, but let's face it - it's August - guys are getting back in shape for games like these. This amount of energy was not expended in the Pro-Am.

Some have remarked on a lack of post play, but did anyone notice we were facing a zone against a rather long front court? Combine that with the fact that our main facilitators have never before been in leading roles at this level plus the fact that it is August, I don't think there is any reason at all to be concerned about low post play. Our big guys will be there. I'm not expecting any Elton or Shelden level of play, but they will be there and be a strength. No reason at all to worry there. Besides, Kelly has already shown he can cause some matchup problems.

Also, I'm not concerned about the ft percentages either. Remember, the ball is completely different. That has to be tougher shooting something with a different feel from a stand-still than from the bounce.

I still expect somewhat of an up-and-down year. I do wonder how well we'll be able to value the ball and facilitate half-court offense. But it is great to already see such nice defensive production.

[ncexnyc]

I watched the game prior to coming to work today and here is my take on the game and the players.

The game was very physical. The officiating left a lot to be desired and you know something is wrong when the announcers start joking about how the calls aren’t going our way.

Our outside shooting and some timely defense helped us prevail in a game that was a lot closer than the final score indicates.

Austin “OMG” Rivers: From what I’ve seen during Austin’s televised high school games, All-Star games as well as today I know I’ll be yelling OMG quite often at the tv screen. The kid is extremely talented and will do some wonderful things while at Duke. The only question is will Coach K be able to harness this talent as Austin is prone to making some really boneheaded plays. As he gains more experience the good will certainly outnumber the bad.

Andre “Not quite so baby faced” Dawkins: Dre looks ready to become a major factor at the college level. He looked a lot more comfortable putting the ball on the floor and he carries himself with confidence and swagger. Can he continue this and not start to mope when things don’t go his way? We’ll see, but I believe he will have a very big year.

Ryan “The third times the charm” Kelly: It looks as if we’ve finally got the player we thought we were going to get when we landed Shav and McRoberts. Ryan looks good from all over the court, inside, mid-range, and outside. He appears to be very confident and will provide us with some solid production from the inside. Can he keep from being exploited on the defensive end? Only time will tell as Ryan is a heady player and should be able to compensate for his lack of lateral quickness with solid positioning.

Seth “Don’t call me Jon” Curry: Seth’s ability to score is a no brainer. The question is how will he handle PG duties. Against physical PG’s and the rough stuff we saw today not so well I’m afraid. He doesn’t have Jon’s size to play over or through these type of PG’s. If he keeps his composure and doesn’t try to speed things up I believe he’ll be alright.

Miles “The Rock” Plumlee: He’ll have a solid senior year. He’ll be an excellent presence in the low post, giving us solid D and rebounding. If we can get 8-10 points per game from him we’ll do quite well.

Mason “The Enigma” Plumlee: The most physically gifted player on this team, but one who is frustrating to watch. Hopefully he’ll show more than he did today, otherwise don’t be surprised to see Hairston take a chunk of his playing time.

Josh “The Terminator” Hairston: The kid looks ready to become our glue guy and do whatever dirty work is necessary. I look for him to see a lot more minutes than last season.
Tyler “The Pest” Thorton: The kid is like a can of Red Bull. He brings instant energy to the team and his in your face attitude on defense will fluster quite a few opponents in the upcoming season.

We didn’t get to see much of Alex or Silent G today. Hopefully we’ll see some more of them on Monday. Marshall didn’t play and I hope to get a look at him on Monday as well.

This team is young and inexperienced in their roles. There will be some rough sledding early on until everyone gets accustomed to one another and their own individual roles, but once they gel they’ll be very good.

[ChillinDuke]

Just watched the game. An odd feel to say the least.

Reading what others have posted, I didn't see much praise of Seth. OK maybe praise is a bit much, but I thought Seth looked improved with the ball in his hands. To be sure, he is not Scheyer's height, nor does he have ankle-breaking ball handling skills. But he got into the lane with some consistency. And, more importantly, controlled the ball when he had it. Only one turnover.

Seemed poised throughout. The 3's weren't particularly falling, but I still thought Seth looked capable of initiating the offense and creating some space. At least, I'm more comfortable with the idea than I was before tonight.

I'm already so excited for this season!

-Chillin

[ThePublisher]

Anyone else notice how bad they messed up the scoring? The chinese team actually did have the lead at one point. Their actual final score was 3 points higher.

[oldnavy]

OK, after watching the game I come away with almost nothing...

Between the whistle being blown every 10 seconds, the slippery floor, the different ball, and the unbelievable size of the Chinese players, and the short shot clock it was very difficult to get a read on anything.

I love the way Austin gets in the lane, but he has to finish. I think he will get much better at that, but he has the aggressiveness that you usually cannot teach so that is a very good thing. He has the attitude and no fear confidence, he just needs a little polish and time.

Miles was better than I expected. He did a very good job rebounding against some very tall dudes. He also did well offensivly once he got the ball on the post. He had a couple of good moves which is encouraging.

Mason, eh.. he just needs to get more aggressive IMO. He hesitated a couple of times when he should have attached. Hope he works this out.

Dawkins still can shoot, and now it seems he is a little more inclinded to drive the ball, which is a very good sign.

Curry is perhaps the best perimeter player we have. He is just really good, and needs to look for his shot a lot this year.

Now what about Ryan Kelly. Wow! I have liked his game all along, but he seems to have gotten an infusion of confidence or something. Hopefully he will continue to build on this. He has a great game and just seems to be where he needs to be most all the time. I think he is going to surprise a lot of people this year.

Over all the game was very sloppy and disjointed. Really never saw a flow, and the 24 second shot clock seemed to bother us a little combined with the Chinese pressure. The Chinese team is a pretty good ball club. They play smart and hard, so this is a great test for our guys.

But remember this is a glorified summer practice session, so don't read too much into it. Lots of time between now and the season to work on the weakness's

[moonpie23]

this is GREAT experience for this team......

[gwlaw99]

As much as I would love for this to come to fruition . . . the Chinese government would never allow it. They wouldn't risk having their most prized athletes defecting to the states. It's a testament to the outdated and ineffective development system in china. Athletes are trained from when they are 3 or 4, and if you go to college to become a student, you cannot be an athlete. It's an archaic system which hinders the country's great potential for sports, and I think allowing kids to go become student athletes in the U.S. would be fantastic for both parties, but it won't happen as things currently are.

Zhang Zhaoxu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhang_Zhaoxu)played for Cal.