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kmspeaks
08-10-2011, 04:25 PM
JJ Redick tweeted a link to this article today. I think the world needs to know that Rashad McCants doesn't have a job in the NBA because the GM's are "blackballing" him :D

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/story/15421905/class-of-2002-serves-as-a-cautionary-tale-for-todays-allamericans

Dr. Rosenrosen
08-10-2011, 04:41 PM
Best comment on the article:

"I think Sean May actually spent last year eating turkey (and twinkies and ho-hos and nutella by the spoonfull) not playing in turkey."

devildeac
08-10-2011, 05:27 PM
JJ Redick tweeted a link to this article today. I think the world needs to know that Rashad McCants doesn't have a job in the NBA because the GM's are "blackballing" him :D

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/story/15421905/class-of-2002-serves-as-a-cautionary-tale-for-todays-allamericans

But, then again, this might have something to do with it also:


1973

As I have said before about unc, along with a few other posters here, "ya just can't make up this stuff.":eek:

MarkD83
08-10-2011, 07:58 PM
The section of the article that should be required reading for every recruit starts with the Michael Thompson quote

"Get your degree," Thompson said. ............

and ends with a quote about JJ.

"J.J. knew exactly what he wanted," Burns said. "He was humble and worked. We were all talking about the NBA and how quickly we were going to get there and he was talking about playing at Duke for four years and getting an education. That's what he told me and look at him now."

It is very interesting that Michael and JJ both went to Duke to start their college career.
They are both very wise.

lotusland
08-10-2011, 10:34 PM
The section of the article that should be required reading for every recruit starts with the Michael Thompson quote

"Get your degree," Thompson said. ............

and ends with a quote about JJ.

"J.J. knew exactly what he wanted," Burns said. "He was humble and worked. We were all talking about the NBA and how quickly we were going to get there and he was talking about playing at Duke for four years and getting an education. That's what he told me and look at him now."

It is very interesting that Michael and JJ both went to Duke to start their college career.
They are both very wise.

Anyone what what Dockery is doing these days? I assume he graduated?

Newton_14
08-10-2011, 10:48 PM
The section of the article that should be required reading for every recruit starts with the Michael Thompson quote

"Get your degree," Thompson said. ............

and ends with a quote about JJ.

"J.J. knew exactly what he wanted," Burns said. "He was humble and worked. We were all talking about the NBA and how quickly we were going to get there and he was talking about playing at Duke for four years and getting an education. That's what he told me and look at him now."

It is very interesting that Michael and JJ both went to Duke to start their college career.
They are both very wise.

I remember reading an article a few years ago where Coach K was discussing JJ. Prior to the start of his freshman season, K met with JJ one on one in his office (as he does with all the freshman), and he asked JJ what his goals were. JJ responded that he wanted to win a National Championship, and when he finished his career, he wanted his jersey hanging in the rafters in Cameron.

Bluedog
08-10-2011, 11:23 PM
Anyone what what Dockery is doing these days? I assume he graduated?

Check out the related article:

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/story/15421639/mcdonalds-all-americans-where-are-they-now

It says where everybody is now. Yes, Dockery graduated from Duke. He was working for a company that produces parties in Chicago, but apparently recently accepted a position at Duke that "deal[s] with both community relations and basketball" so will be returning soon. Also, he has a 2 year old son.

RockyMtDevil
08-11-2011, 09:50 AM
Was this Shavlik's year as well, I noticed he had a quote in the article. As much as our dark colored glasses like to cherry pick JJ, we have our share of misses as well. Not so much due to attitude or being a paria like Rashad/Rasheed, but let's be honest and admit that Shavlik Randolph may be one of the greatest disapointments of all time. He was overhyped and was absolutely terrible during his time at Duke. I am sure this will be deleted by the mods, but please tell the whole story and not just the one we want to hear. Anyone else see a list of all time top recruits never living up to their expectations that does not have Shav on it? He was just not very good, and please don't blame it on injuries...

sagegrouse
08-11-2011, 09:58 AM
Was this Shavlik's year as well, I noticed he had a quote in the article. As much as our dark colored glasses like to cherry pick JJ, we have our share of misses as well. Not so much due to attitude or being a paria like Rashad/Rasheed, but let's be honest and admit that Shavlik Randolph may be one of the greatest disapointments of all time. He was overhyped and was absolutely terrible during his time at Duke. I am sure this will be deleted by the mods, but please tell the whole story and not just the one we want to hear. Anyone else see a list of all time top recruits never living up to their expectations that does not have Shav on it? He was just not very good, and please don't blame it on injuries...

Michael Thompson also appears to have been on that team. And MT was never a factor at Duke and only a role player at Northwestern. Apparently he got a great education and has a good job in finance in Chicago.

I think you are being too harsh on Shav. He played his freshman year with an injury. He showed promise his next two seasons, but jumped early to the NBA. Made the Sixers roster but suffered a devastating injury. There were significant family financial issues during his time at Duke, perhaps leading to his early departure.

sagegrouse

devildeac
08-11-2011, 10:37 AM
I remember reading an article a few years ago where Coach K was discussing JJ. Prior to the start of his freshman season, K met with JJ one on one in his office (as he does with all the freshman), and he asked JJ what his goals were. JJ responded that he wanted to win a National Championship, and when he finished his career, he wanted his jersey hanging in the rafters in Cameron.

IIRC, K also had a "chat" with JJ after his 1st year and told him to get himself "in shape" and JJ spent that spring/summer with an intense conditioning program and lost 10-15 pounds and spent the next 3 years running almost endlessly around/through screens and battling jersey-stretching and arm grabbing/scratching defenders so he could get the open shots and FT for the remainder of his 2769 career points at Duke

Jaymf7
08-11-2011, 10:50 AM
Was this Shavlik's year as well, I noticed he had a quote in the article. As much as our dark colored glasses like to cherry pick JJ, we have our share of misses as well. Not so much due to attitude or being a paria like Rashad/Rasheed, but let's be honest and admit that Shavlik Randolph may be one of the greatest disapointments of all time. He was overhyped and was absolutely terrible during his time at Duke. I am sure this will be deleted by the mods, but please tell the whole story and not just the one we want to hear. Anyone else see a list of all time top recruits never living up to their expectations that does not have Shav on it? He was just not very good, and please don't blame it on injuries...

Shav earned a million dollar contract in the NBA. He may not have stuck (I have Miami tix and saw him play a decent amount on a very depleted roster a couple years back -- he contributed and was not clearly outclassed), but there is no question that he would have been considerably better at Duke but for a series of significant injuries. Did he really play at Duke with part of a tennis ball in his shoe (sounds like an indictment of our stellar training staff)? I was very disappointed (and admittedly puzzled) to see him leave early, but he did make the league until a terrible ankle break. Hard to knock the guy unless you ignore injuries, which undeniably are part of the equation.

Faison1
08-11-2011, 11:02 AM
Was this Shavlik's year as well, I noticed he had a quote in the article. As much as our dark colored glasses like to cherry pick JJ, we have our share of misses as well. Not so much due to attitude or being a paria like Rashad/Rasheed, but let's be honest and admit that Shavlik Randolph may be one of the greatest disapointments of all time. He was overhyped and was absolutely terrible during his time at Duke. I am sure this will be deleted by the mods, but please tell the whole story and not just the one we want to hear. Anyone else see a list of all time top recruits never living up to their expectations that does not have Shav on it? He was just not very good, and please don't blame it on injuries...

He wasn't "terrible"!!! He wasn't great, but he wasn't terrible. He had some great games, most notably the Final Four Semifinal against UConn. Didn't he score 16 pts in that one?

The only player that approaches terrible, IMHO, is Greg Newton......and he had some bad circumstances to deal with.

JasonEvans
08-11-2011, 11:34 AM
Was this Shavlik's year as well, I noticed he had a quote in the article. As much as our dark colored glasses like to cherry pick JJ, we have our share of misses as well. Not so much due to attitude or being a paria like Rashad/Rasheed, but let's be honest and admit that Shavlik Randolph may be one of the greatest disapointments of all time. He was overhyped and was absolutely terrible during his time at Duke. I am sure this will be deleted by the mods, but please tell the whole story and not just the one we want to hear. Anyone else see a list of all time top recruits never living up to their expectations that does not have Shav on it? He was just not very good, and please don't blame it on injuries...

I looked a bit and I cannot find a single list of recruiting busts that includes Shav. Can you point me to some?

I have a hard time seeing how Shav could be one of the all-time bust recruits when he was just the #14 ranked player in the class coming out of high school (according to RSCI (http://home.roadrunner.com/~rsci/RSCI_100_PostSeason_2002.htm)). I mean, several of the guys ranked ahead of him on the consensus list did not even make the NBA.

Shav may have not lived up to the very high expectations for him (especially when he was widely considered one of the top 2-3 players in the class as a junior), but he was a solid player who was a significant contributor at times on one of the better teams in all of college basketball during his career... despite some nasty injuries that severely hampered his play.

-Jason "thanks for being so negative though... that was a real pleasure" Evans

OZZIE4DUKE
08-11-2011, 11:55 AM
but there is no question that he would have been considerably better at Duke but for a series of significant injuries. Did he really play at Duke with part of a tennis ball in his shoe (sounds like an indictment of our stellar training staff)? Yeah, he did, but he did that on his own and didn't tell anyone about his pain nor his "solution". He hid it from the staff. Once it became known, I believe they medically corrected the condition with surgery (it's been a while and I don't remember the details) and he didn't need the tennis ball anymore. You can't blame the training staff for the tennis ball.

devildeac
08-11-2011, 12:07 PM
Yeah, he did, but he did that on his own and didn't tell anyone about his pain nor his "solution". He hid it from the staff. Once it became known, I believe they medically corrected the condition with surgery (it's been a while and I don't remember the details) and he didn't need the tennis ball anymore. You can't blame the training staff for the tennis ball.

He had a (partially?) torn labrum, IIRC, in one of his hips (IDK whether it was right or left) and Ozzie's story is pretty much correct. He also had a significant ankle sprain one year and missed 2-3 weeks. Mono also affected him and I'll guess he missed about a month for that, too. I'll give him a pass for more than his share of afflictions but still wish he would have returned for his senior year. I think he would have been very, very good and helped us tremendously had he stayed. And yes, he did have a fine game vs uCON in the 2004 NC semi-final and, for the life of me, agreeing with what has been posted here many times before, I still can't figure out how he fouled out in less than 20 minutes:mad:.

DukeBlueNikeShox
08-11-2011, 12:13 PM
Going into their senior year, Shav was the #1 player in that class. Another twist to his recruitment was that he signed with Duke, despite both of his parents being alumni of that "school" down the road. Shav was a great player. However, I think K should take the fault for his lack of development because Shav was a faceup player in HS and AAU. He came to Duke expecting to be a 3. K decided to make him a back-to-the-basket player - a position he's played and struggled getting comfortable with. had he remained a 3, he would have been awesome. Shav was one of the most polite and humble players I've met. He's one of my favs, and I wished he would have had a more successful career!

Wheat/"/"/"
08-11-2011, 12:29 PM
I'd be OK with a defining JJ as...Oh, say.... a warrior, leader, intense, hardworking, gritty, tough, successful and a winner.

Humble is reaching quite a bit, don't ya think? Although i seem to recall something about him handling his Rap career with some humility:)

rsvman
08-11-2011, 12:34 PM
I'd be OK with a defining JJ as...Oh, say.... a warrior, leader, intense, hardworking, gritty, tough, successful and a winner.

Humble is reaching quite a bit, don't ya think? Although i seem to recall something about him handling his Rap career with some humility:)

Yeah. "Humble" is a huge stretch for JJ.

However, in the article, the quote came from one of the other McDonald's All-Americans, and referred to how he perceived JJ when they met in conjunction with the game in NYC. It's not like we (the DBR denizens) have been saying JJ is humble.

UrinalCake
08-11-2011, 12:35 PM
I enjoyed this article, you seldomly read stories about guys who did NOT become superstars. Kudos to JJ for his hard work despite not being as athletic as most of the other guys. Wheat, I agree that JJ was pretty arrogant on the court especially during his first two years at Duke (he chilled out considerably after that). The player quoted in the article is referring to his attitude towards making the NBA while he was in high school. He was realistic about it and didn't just assume that making NBA was automatic, unlike some of the other guys.

wk2109
08-11-2011, 12:38 PM
I actually attended the 2002 game and I'm very surprised that so few of the players are still in the league only 9 years removed from high school. Contrast that class with the next two: 13 players from the 2003 game and 16 players from the 2004 game are currently on NBA rosters.

However, by my count, only 6 guys from the 2000 game and 7 from the 2001 game are still in the NBA, so maybe 2002 isn't such an anomaly.

JasonEvans
08-11-2011, 12:46 PM
I think K should take the fault for his lack of development because Shav was a faceup player in HS and AAU. He came to Duke expecting to be a 3. K decided to make him a back-to-the-basket player - a position he's played and struggled getting comfortable with. had he remained a 3, he would have been awesome.

Preach on brother! We all know that Duke never uses its big men facing the basket.

Mark Alarie, Danny Ferry, Christian Laettner, and Kyle Singler are all on the phone. They would like to speak with you a bit about playing big man at Duke and being chained in the post.

[More Sarcasm]I mean, aside from NBA 1st round draft pick Dahntay Jones and NBA lottery pick Luol Deng, we had no one capable of playing the 3 while Shav was at Duke![/More Sarcasm]

-Jason "sorry... I just could not let this post lay there with no response" Evans

lotusland
08-11-2011, 01:14 PM
Going into their senior year, Shav was the #1 player in that class. Another twist to his recruitment was that he signed with Duke, despite both of his parents being alumni of that "school" down the road. Shav was a great player. However, I think K should take the fault for his lack of development because Shav was a faceup player in HS and AAU. He came to Duke expecting to be a 3. K decided to make him a back-to-the-basket player - a position he's played and struggled getting comfortable with. had he remained a 3, he would have been awesome. Shav was one of the most polite and humble players I've met. He's one of my favs, and I wished he would have had a more successful career!

I don't know if Shav was actually over rated as much as a kid who had some tough breaks and maybe made a cople of less than stellar decisions (tennis ball, leaving after Jr. yr) I put him at the top of my list of Dukies who I wish had a do-over. He should have red-shirted his Freshman year to get completely over the injury. He did have a face up game but I think he was 6'10 and probably not a great defender of ACC wings. At Duke 4 was probably his natural position and as others have said he had ample opportunity to work offensivley in our system. I thought he may have lost some confidence early on that he never regained. Unlike McBob and Burgess he actually looked comfortable shooting from the perimeter but his percentage probably wasn't much better. He was a better athlete than Ferry or Laettner IMO but he needed to drain more shots to bring the defender out for him to put it on the floor. I still think he could have been a stud at Duke under different circumstances.

superdave
08-11-2011, 01:34 PM
Shav got a lot of playing time which bascially equates to ample opportunity. He had some bad luck: two sprained ankles at the end of freshman year, hip surgery between sophomore and junior years killed his summer, and then mono.

People always talk about the speed of the game. For Shav, the college game never slowed down enough for him to be a face-up player or to attack off the dribble. If he'd been able to knock down his jumper a little better then the face-up game could have had more room to evolve. But between unfortunate injuries and foul trouble (which has a lot to do with quickness I'd argue), Shav's career never hit the heights it could have.

Also, his scoring average declined each year from 7.4 to 7.0 to 4.4; never a good sign.

superdave
08-11-2011, 01:40 PM
I looked a bit and I cannot find a single list of recruiting busts that includes Shav. Can you point me to some?

I have a hard time seeing how Shav could be one of the all-time bust recruits when he was just the #14 ranked player in the class coming out of high school (according to RSCI (http://home.roadrunner.com/~rsci/RSCI_100_PostSeason_2002.htm)). I mean, several of the guys ranked ahead of him on the consensus list did not even make the NBA.

Shav may have not lived up to the very high expectations for him (especially when he was widely considered one of the top 2-3 players in the class as a junior), but he was a solid player who was a significant contributor at times on one of the better teams in all of college basketball during his career... despite some nasty injuries that severely hampered his play.

-Jason "thanks for being so negative though... that was a real pleasure" Evans

Seth Davis in a recap article (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/magazine/specials/2000s/12/08/cbb.highlights.lowlights/index.html) on the decade says the following:

BIGGEST RECRUITING BUST: Shavlik Randolph, Duke
As a senior at Broughton High in Raleigh, N.C., the 6-10 forward scored 70 points in a game to break a school record held by Pete Maravich. He was a two-time Parade and McDonald's All-American who was the 12th ranked prospect in the Class of 2002 by Scout.com. However, in three injury- and illness-plagued seasons in Durham, Randolph averaged just 6.3 points and 4.3 rebounds while starting less than half of Duke's games. After his junior season, he declared himself eligible for the NBA draft. He went undrafted and is currently playing 11.5 minutes per game for the Miami Heat, his third NBA team in five seasons.

superdave
08-11-2011, 01:50 PM
I'd be OK with a defining JJ as...Oh, say.... a warrior, leader, intense, hardworking, gritty, tough, successful and a winner.

Humble is reaching quite a bit, don't ya think? Although i seem to recall something about him handling his Rap career with some humility:)

I think you can probably classify Redick as humble off the court in that he understood who he was, accepted his shortcomings and then worked his rear off to maximize his strengths in order to become what he did while at Duke. His arrogance had as much to do with feeding off the negative energy of an away crowd as it did any alleged feelings of superiority. Calling him arrogant is the easy way out considering how much venom was shot in his direction. Hansborough never got that level of hatred and he got twice the calls JJ ever did. It's just really easy for people to hate a white guy from Duke and too easy for the media to sell that story.

Great article on him from Pat Forde (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=forde_pat&id=2339265) during JJ's senior year.

MChambers
08-11-2011, 02:46 PM
Going into their senior year, Shav was the #1 player in that class. Another twist to his recruitment was that he signed with Duke, despite both of his parents being alumni of that "school" down the road. Shav was a great player. However, I think K should take the fault for his lack of development because Shav was a faceup player in HS and AAU. He came to Duke expecting to be a 3. K decided to make him a back-to-the-basket player - a position he's played and struggled getting comfortable with. had he remained a 3, he would have been awesome. Shav was one of the most polite and humble players I've met. He's one of my favs, and I wished he would have had a more successful career!

I liked Shav and thought he was polite, humble, and well-spoken. But he would have been no more successful playing the 3 than Ryan Kelly.

RockyMtDevil
08-11-2011, 03:58 PM
He wasn't "terrible"!!! He wasn't great, but he wasn't terrible. He had some great games, most notably the Final Four Semifinal against UConn. Didn't he score 16 pts in that one?

The only player that approaches terrible, IMHO, is Greg Newton......and he had some bad circumstances to deal with.

Um, if Newton was so terrible, why did he score 812 total points to Shav's amazing 580? Good grief, Erik Meek scored more career points that Shavlik. Marty Clark scored more, heck so did Sean Dockery.

If you would have lined those names up when he arrived as a freshman and said, "Who will take the under on Shav scoring less than Meek, Newton, Koubek, Billy King, Dockery and Marty Clark?" Everyone would have lost that bet...

lotusland
08-11-2011, 04:35 PM
Um, if Newton was so terrible, why did he score 812 total points to Shav's amazing 580? Good grief, Erik Meek scored more career points that Shavlik. Marty Clark scored more, heck so did Sean Dockery.

If you would have lined those names up when he arrived as a freshman and said, "Who will take the under on Shav scoring less than Meek, Newton, Koubek, Billy King, Dockery and Marty Clark?" Everyone would have lost that bet...

I know Newton was somewhat of an odd ball and Duke wasn't very good when he was our starting center but I do remember him giving a couple of surprisingly good efforts against Tim Duncan. Not that he out-played him or even that Duke won the games but just that he stepped up and made him work for everything. I also remember him being benched and Duke going small at the end of his career. I never had the feeling that he was a highly rated enough to have been considered a bust though but I didn't keep up with recruiting at all back then.

Dukeford
08-13-2011, 11:20 PM
Newton was a letdown because he could not get his head straight, but he certainly wasn't terrible.
He was athletic, good offensive rebounder, and he could shoot a fully extended turnaround jumper in the post. He had a high release and never got blocked. None of the current post guys can shoot in the paint without getting it stuffed in their face.
My thought is that Newton could have started at the post on any post-2006 Duke team.

OldPhiKap
08-13-2011, 11:58 PM
[URL="http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/magazine/specials/2000s/12/08/cbb.highlights.lowlights/index.html"]

BIGGEST RECRUITING BUST: Shavlik Randolph, Duke

However, in three injury- and illness-plagued seasons in Durham . . . .

Not sure why this is simply skipped over so quickly by so many. Easy for me to sit on my couch and wonder why the kid didn't produce as high as expected.

The kid did the best he could, as far as I can tell, for our university. Enough for me.

Faison1
08-14-2011, 08:18 AM
Um, if Newton was so terrible, why did he score 812 total points to Shav's amazing 580? Good grief, Erik Meek scored more career points that Shavlik. Marty Clark scored more, heck so did Sean Dockery.

If you would have lined those names up when he arrived as a freshman and said, "Who will take the under on Shav scoring less than Meek, Newton, Koubek, Billy King, Dockery and Marty Clark?" Everyone would have lost that bet...

You guys are right. I was a little harsh about Newton. I think he probably had some skills, but he generally represented a team I wasn't particularly fond of. As said in my previous post, he had some circumstances which didn't help.....like the uniforms being ugly.

OldPhiKap
08-14-2011, 01:30 PM
You guys are right. I was a little harsh about Newton. I think he probably had some skills, but he generally represented a team I wasn't particularly fond of. As said in my previous post, he had some circumstances which didn't help.....like the uniforms being ugly.

Greg came in with a battling hockey mentality -- I remember some quotes from him in HS along these lines -- and never seemed to really buy into what K wanted him to do. And his hands were, um, a bit stone-like.

Kind of reminds me of another Canadian, Dan Meagher. Except Dan spat in Tom Sheehey's face, and that was applauded by everyone in the conference.