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ACCBBallFan
07-11-2007, 09:37 AM
Name Duke’s most dangerous lineup this year, not necessarily its starting lineup.

I think most people would think of Kyle Singler and Gerald Henderson as being 2 of Duke’s most dangerous players.

Assuming he can play half decent defense, Taylor King apparently has no conscience when it comes to scoring, but that’s a big IF.

You need a PG and if he lives up to his hype, Nolan Smith is probably most dangerous, then Scheyer or Paulus, again a big IF.

So that 's all three frosh already which is problematic.

Depending on how you want to shape your team, good arguments can probably be made for almost anyone except possibly McClure, who is a good player, just more of a steadying influence than “dangerous”.

Some would say it has to be Nelson or Paulus as it is unlikely either one of them does not start; they have the most Duke experience, etc.

Some would say Scheyer for his 21 points in 75 seconds or whatever it was.

Some would say Zoubek if he learns to leverage his extreme height advantage.

Some would say Lance based on speed, defense, etc.

Some would say Pocius, as I would, based more on gut feel and his success on Euro teams than anything else

So my 5 most dangerous Duke players in a single lineup, which surely will not be the starting lineup, in fact perhaps none will start in deference to Paulus-Scheyer-Nelson-McClure-Lance/Zoubek, would be

Smith--Pocius- Henderson-Singler-King.

Which is your 5 most dangerous Duke lineup this year?

JasonEvans
07-11-2007, 09:54 AM
Paulus, Scheyer, Nelson, Henderson, Singler.

Yes, I know such a lineup would have a tough time rebounding with 4 guards but all those guards do a nice job of rebounding for their position -- especially Nelson and Henderson. That lineup passes very well, shoots excellently, and would kill with its ability to slash to the basket.

But, because of matchups, I don't think we see this lineup all that much.

-Jason "is 'dangerous' just an offensive term, cause we could put out a very dangerous defensive team too" Evans

Jfrosh
07-11-2007, 09:56 AM
It all depends on how you define dangerous. I think great defensive players like Billy King and Tommy Amaker are on the top of my dangerous list but they certainly didn't shoot the lights out (although Billy might have hit a light or two on his free throw attempts).
Assuming you mean offensive explosiveness I think a small lineup of:
Paulus, Scheyer, Henderson, Nelson, Singler has the potential to run and shoot anyone else off the floor.

ACCBBallFan
07-11-2007, 11:10 AM
Paulus, Scheyer, Nelson, Henderson, Singler.

Yes, I know such a lineup would have a tough time rebounding with 4 guards but all those guards do a nice job of rebounding for their position -- especially Nelson and Henderson. That lineup passes very well, shoots excellently, and would kill with its ability to slash to the basket.

But, because of matchups, I don't think we see this lineup all that much.

-Jason "is 'dangerous' just an offensive term, cause we could put out a very dangerous defensive team too" EvansHow uneven do you think that lineup would be in a Blue -White matchup?

Paulus-Scheyer-Nelson-Henderson-Singler

vs.

Smith-Pocius-McClure-Lance-(Zoubek/King).

Could boil down to whether Zoubek could get Singler in foul trouble versus who could Zoubek guard if they have to play man to man.

Without Zoubek, King and Pocius could probably adequately guard Paulus and Scheyer, with Lance guarding Singler, Smith/McClure guarding Henderson/Nelson, but could they exploit the small lineup on Offense?

Depends on the matchups as Nolan-Marty could dribble penetrate if guarded by Greg-Jon. If Nelson is assigned, which one of McClure-King can Greg/Jon guard?

It boils down to how much Offense McClure/Lance could produce, and whether King is hot.

------------------
Yes, other than being racially imbalanced a lineup of Smith-Henderson-Nelson-(Singler/McClure)-Lance would be a very dangerous full court pressing team, that Pocius-Scheyer-Paulus could somewhat play that style more than King/Zoubek.

throatybeard
07-11-2007, 12:55 PM
Name Duke’s most dangerous lineup this year, not necessarily its starting lineup.

The women's golf roster.

whereinthehellami
07-11-2007, 12:56 PM
Smith PG - Long, quick, penetrator.
Paulus SG - Our best outside shooter? Can also pass and create.
Nelson OG - Athletic, can do it all, including score at any time.
Henderson SF- A matchhup problem on the offensive side, explosive.
Singler PF - Can do it all, has a great attitude.

This could be an intriguing lineup from an offensive standpoint. smith could be a suprise player for Duke next year as most people don't see him breaking thru the talented guards in front of him but he brings a different set of skills and abilities to the table.

Classof06
07-11-2007, 01:25 PM
Smith PG - Long, quick, penetrator.
Paulus SG - Our best outside shooter? Can also pass and create.
Nelson OG - Athletic, can do it all, including score at any time.
Henderson SF- A matchhup problem on the offensive side, explosive.
Singler PF - Can do it all, has a great attitude.

This could be an intriguing lineup from an offensive standpoint. smith could be a suprise player for Duke next year as most people don't see him breaking thru the talented guards in front of him but he brings a different set of skills and abilities to the table.

To me, our most dangerous lineup is:

Nolan Smith
Demarcus Nelson
Gerald Henderson
Lance Thomas
Kyle Singler

As a whole, this is a solid defensive unit, where all the perimeter players can switch screens without creating a mismatch, the same between Thomas and Singler. You have strong penetration abilities from the 1-3, something you just don't get as much of with Paulus and Scheyer in there. Also of note, Smith, Henderson, and Singler can create their own shots consistently. I think this team can play in the half-court with those three that can create their own shot, but if need be, this 5 can run you right out of the gym. Not to mention, you have two 6-8/6-9 players that can play the post but also step out to the mid-range on both ends of the floor.

The versatility is the key, though. We've all seen Demarcus guard anyone from the 1 to the 4 or 5, Henderson is capable of guarding any guard/wing player up to 6-6/6-7 or so, Thomas can guard anywhere from the 3 to the 5, and we've seen Singler guard both Kevin Love and Kosta Koufos effectively at 6-9. It's hard for any team to create a mismatch on these 5 while our quickness and athleticism on offense can force the action and impose tempo on the opposition.

The best part: Having Paulus, Scheyer, McClure and Zoubek come off the bench means I'd put that bench against anyone in the nation. There really wouldn't be much of a drop-off at all. Depth, baby!

mgtr
07-11-2007, 01:30 PM
For what its worth (about $.02) my dangerous five would be King, Paulus, Henderson, Nelson, and Singler. In the early season absence of a really ready BZ, I would also like to put LT in there, but other teams would probably object to our having six players on the court.
Anyway, I think these five would be dangerous shooters, with two great athletes (Nelson and Henderson). From early reports, King and Singler are not great athletes, but find ways to score. And GP runs the team and takes freebie outside shots.
I am aware of the good players I have left out, and would love to see Blue/White with these five against Scheyer, LT, McClure (a favorite of mine), Pocius, and Smith. Except from Scheyer, not certain where all the points would come from. And BZ has to get worked into the rotation as early as possible to help him make up ground.
Fun to speculate.

mph
07-11-2007, 01:30 PM
Dangerous for who?

Dangerous for our opponnents:

Paulus
Sheyer
Nelson
Henderson
Singler

(Although I agree with Jason, we're not likely to see much of this lineup.)

Dangerous to ourselves:

Nelson
Pocius
McClure
Thomas
Zoubek

(99 assists against 221 turnovers. That's what I call dangerous!)

Cali-Duke
07-11-2007, 02:46 PM
After watching them play this summer, I would have to put lance in my five. Also, he runs really well with the full court offense we are moving back to this coming season.

Paulus has also played much better in full court offense as opposed to half court. Last year, we did the best when Coach K let the players run the court. We then lost our leads when we slowed things down.

Henderson has gotten really really good since last season. He played well in their unofficial scrimmages this summer, plus I heard good things about his play at the camp he attended this summer.

Singler and Nelson are both solid defenders who are really versatile. Scheyer is really close at the top. Nolan Smith has been amazing in scrimmages. He is incredibly quick and just so much fun to watch. I'm hoping he will bulk up though, because if he plays the 2 position, he might get pushed around.


My five:
Paulus
Nelson
Henderson
Singler
Thomas

Clipsfan
07-11-2007, 05:19 PM
After watching them play this summer, I would have to put lance in my five. Also, he runs really well with the full court offense we are moving back to this coming season.

Paulus has also played much better in full court offense as opposed to half court. Last year, we did the best when Coach K let the players run the court. We then lost our leads when we slowed things down.

Henderson has gotten really really good since last season. He played well in their unofficial scrimmages this summer, plus I heard good things about his play at the camp he attended this summer.

Singler and Nelson are both solid defenders who are really versatile. Scheyer is really close at the top. Nolan Smith has been amazing in scrimmages. He is incredibly quick and just so much fun to watch. I'm hoping he will bulk up though, because if he plays the 2 position, he might get pushed around.


My five:
Paulus
Nelson
Henderson
Singler
Thomas

I bet that we see that lineup on the floor at times this season, and potentially even starting if Jon isn't in the starting lineup. I do think that Jon will be in the starting lineup for most games, though, based on what we saw last year.

OZZIE4DUKE
07-11-2007, 06:24 PM
Name Duke’s most dangerous lineup this year

I think most people would think of Gerald Henderson as being Duke’s most dangerous player.


You think everyone is going to stick their nose in his way around the basket? :D

JasonEvans
07-11-2007, 07:05 PM
The women's golf roster.

Great post!!

As an aside, our most dangerous lineup would have been the man's Lax team after the NCAA granted everyone on the team an extra year of elligibility, but many of the senior studs on the team have opted to play Lax elsewhere instead of coming back to Duke. I am not sure I understand that, but that is what several of them are doing.

I still think they deserved that extra year of elligbility, but I am waay bummed that they will be using it for rival programs.

-Jason "sigh..." Evans

johnb
07-11-2007, 07:33 PM
I don't really see any of the Duke players being especially dangerous, which may make it tough for them to make it in the NBA:

http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache:WBT9d7sc5psJ:www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15419993/+guns+nba+players&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=9&gl=us&lr=lang_en

VaDukie
07-11-2007, 09:09 PM
Great post!!

As an aside, our most dangerous lineup would have been the man's Lax team after the NCAA granted everyone on the team an extra year of elligibility, but many of the senior studs on the team have opted to play Lax elsewhere instead of coming back to Duke. I am not sure I understand that, but that is what several of them are doing.

I still think they deserved that extra year of elligbility, but I am waay bummed that they will be using it for rival programs.

-Jason "sigh..." Evans

We have seniors that are transferring? Where'd you hear/read this?

Bob Green
07-12-2007, 04:49 AM
One factor in the equation will be the strengths and weaknesses of any given opponent. In fact, the real strength of this year's team could be the different combinations of lineups we can field. However, my straight forward answer to the question is:

Smith, Nelson, Henderson, Singler & Thomas

Bob Green
Yokosuka, Japan

dw0827
07-12-2007, 07:31 AM
Singler, Thomas, Henderson, Scheyer, Paulus

whereinthehellami
07-12-2007, 07:35 AM
I've been seeing alot of people putting Thomas in as a starter, I just don't see it. Hopefully he has made huge in-roads this summer but IMO he had some significant holes that needed to be filled before seeing a starter spot. I like his height, length, and energy but think that the speed of the ACC (decision making, reaction times) will put him another year away from being a starter. I like McClure to start in that spot but if we are talking about dangerous lineups then I think you go with Henderson and small ball first.

pamtar
07-13-2007, 10:20 AM
Smith PG - Long, quick, penetrator.
Paulus SG - Our best outside shooter? Can also pass and create.
Nelson OG - Athletic, can do it all, including score at any time.
Henderson SF- A matchhup problem on the offensive side, explosive.
Singler PF - Can do it all, has a great attitude.

This could be an intriguing lineup from an offensive standpoint. smith could be a suprise player for Duke next year as most people don't see him breaking thru the talented guards in front of him but he brings a different set of skills and abilities to the table.


If Smith has the handle, I think that is the best idea I've heard yet. We all know Greg does not handle pressure or traps well at all. If Smith is better at bringing it up court Paulus would do well dishing off the first pass, or draining a jumper. Plus, Smith can probably penetrate better. Darn good thought friend.

Cali-Duke
07-13-2007, 03:39 PM
Even though Smith is a better penetrator, Paulus has one of the best if not the best vision on the team. Plus, with the full court offense, Paulus will have to rely less on penetrating and more on vision and passing. Paulus does have a shot, but so does Smith. Paulus is also a great leader. In all of their summer scrimmages, he is constantly talking to people on the floor. Smith doesn't do that, which is completely understandable when he is new to the system. So I feel Paulus being point guard is best at least for this season.

By the way, Thomas seems to have gotten better. He is more confident in the scrimmages and his skills are more refined. Granted, I understand that these are just scrimmages and in no way indicative of how the players are going to play, this growth with him being a good fit in a full court offense is promising.

CLASS OF 09! :)

buddy
07-13-2007, 10:53 PM
Based on this week's news (Zoubek, Nelson, Singler), our most dangerous line-up will be the five healthiest players, whoever they are. At the rate we are going, we may be unable to field a team.

ACCBBallFan
07-14-2007, 09:09 AM
Based on this week's news (Zoubek, Nelson, Singler), our most dangerous line-up will be the five healthiest players, whoever they are. At the rate we are going, we may be unable to field a team.
Yep, with those 3 hurt, Scheyer away at PanAm trials though it does not appear he will make the team, Pocius still recovering from ankle surgery, and I think I recall coach K saying htat McClure is not taking summer classes the second session, by default it is:

Nolan Smith
Greg Paulus (hopefully recovered from surgery)
Gerald Henderson (Exercise induced asthma)
Taylor King
Lance Thomas

Not a bad 5, but how can they improve with no one to practice against.

lavell12
07-18-2007, 08:03 PM
G Paulus
G Scheyer
G Nelson
F Singler
C Zoebeck

6th Man: Henderson

Rest of the Bench
Thomas
Smith
McClure
King
Pocius

This isn't necessarly the lineup I would use but this is what I think K would use. I would start Henderson but last season we saw how much K loves Scheyer.

mgtr
07-18-2007, 08:17 PM
Is this your November lineup or your January lineup?

VaDukie
07-18-2007, 08:20 PM
Paulus
Scheyer
Henderson
Nelson
Singler

Before the we have no size crowd comes out, here me out.

1. Singler guarded Kevin Love in high school. He can handle anyone in the conference down low except T.
2. Nelson is strong enough to guard guys bigger than him.
3. It's our most talented lineup. As K always says, we don't play positions - we play players. Those are our 5 best players.

Off the bench, I think Smith, Thomas, and Zoubek get the most minutes. I hope McClure, King, and Pocius all get their minutes too and we go deep - but we'll see.

dukestheheat
07-18-2007, 08:35 PM
February line-up:

Nolan Smith at PG.
Paulus or Scheyer splitting time at shooting guard.
Thomas
Singler
Henderson

my $.02, dth.

mgtr
07-18-2007, 09:51 PM
Well, this is fun. I think we ought to pick a particular game, in say, January, and "bet" on the actual starting lineup for that actual game. I can understand why some would want Smith and Singler to start. I cannot understand how they could bypass Nelson, or the basis for choosing Thomas (other than hope, which I admit I share). However, as they say, thats what makes horseracing. So, lets have a horserace!

ACCBBallFan
07-19-2007, 12:29 AM
Well, this is fun. I think we ought to pick a particular game, in say, January, and "bet" on the actual starting lineup for that actual game. I can understand why some would want Smith and Singler to start. I cannot understand how they could bypass Nelson, or the basis for choosing Thomas (other than hope, which I admit I share). However, as they say, thats what makes horseracing. So, lets have a horserace!Depends on which January opponent. I believe UNC first game is always first week of February and second one is always first week of March.

So I sugggest the January lineup be who would Duke play against the other teams most likely competing best for top of ACC. IMO, that is NCS, Clemson and GA Tech. Luckily for Duke, NC State and GA Tech have no proven PG, and Clemson's Hammonds like Duke's Paulus may be a better SG.

Though I know each fan has their favorites, I question any starting lineup that does not include Paulus-Nelson-Singler. I think fourth, regardless of opponent is Gerald Henderson, though I know many say Scheyer and some say Nolan Smith.

The only variablility I see is who starts at center among Zoubek/Lance/King, in the latter's case defensive center offensive 3 point specialist a la Pittsnoggle. Some will say Singler in post and Scheyer is fifth starter.

Paulus/ (Scheyer/Smith will vary based on opponent)
Nelson/ (Scheyer/Smith will vary based on opponent)
Henderson/ (Pocius)
Singler/ (McClure)
Zoubek/ (Thomas/King - center by committee that will vary based on opponent)

Even here the choice does not matter a lot as all will be foul prone and therefore all 3 will play, but only true center is Zoubek. If they all foul out, small ball with Paulus-Scheyer-Nelson-Henderson-Singler/McClure.

Against GA Tech's Dickey-Jeremis Smith-Lawal may want to start Zoubek-Singler-Henderson-Nelson-Paulus.

Against Clemson's Mays and Booker, Lance-Singler-Henderson-Nelson-Paulus.

Against NC State's McCauley-Costner-Hickson, King-Singler-Henderson-Nelson-Paulus, though an argument can be made for all 3 bigs.

I don't know enough about any of these 3's PG prospects to have an opinion on Smith versus Scheyer as first sub for Paulus/Nelson. So at this point

I would suggest subbing Scheyer in for Paulus since Jon will have an experience advantage Nolan and also over NCS or GA Tech but not Hammonds.

Presumably Nolan is the better defender but that remains to be seen as Scheyer's defense is often under rated IMO. But I would go with Smith in for Nelson if that premise holds true.

Unless there is severe foul trouble in post, sub Marty in for Henderson periodically and McClure in for Singler.

Though I think a wholesale change of Smith-Scheyer-Pocius-McClure-(Thomas/King/Zoubek, say Zoubek) would be an interesting way for coach K to solve the PT ussue as he did with Team USA, I doubt that will happen much.

In general I think Smith may get more chance against fast PGs like Lawson, Ish Smith, Singletary, Tyrese Rice, Vasquez/Hayes, and Toney Douglas.

Coach K might leverage Jon Scheyer's expereince more against teams with PG issues like GA Tech, NC State, Miami, VATech, with Clemson's Hammonds could go either way.

Gotta give Zoubek first crack at Tyler, Dickey, UVA's Mikaslauskas, maybe McCauley, and if FSU starts their 7 foot freshman, though employing Kingsnoggle to pull them out of post is not a bad strategy as an occasional gimmick.

Lance vs Clemson's Booker/Mays, MD's Osby/Gist, Miami's Collins/Graham, UVA's Sorroye

King vs BC's Oates/Blair, FSU's Echefu.

Not sure who WF will replace Visser with or VA Tech would replace Coleman Collins with. So try all three of Lance/King/Zoubek.

Classof06
07-19-2007, 02:15 PM
Even though Smith is a better penetrator, Paulus has one of the best if not the best vision on the team. Plus, with the full court offense, Paulus will have to rely less on penetrating and more on vision and passing.


I don't understand why people keep saying Paulus is such a great passer and that he has great vision. I just don't get it. Just because he's the primary ballhandler doesn't mean he has the best vision on the team; I think one could make a very good case that, last year, McRoberts was as good a passer as Paulus. Josh's Assist-to-Turnover (A/TO) ratio was 1.43 last year; Paulus' was 1.23. Now one might say Paulus had the ball in his hands much more often. If that's the case, then it just strengthens the argument in that Paulus had 124 assists on the year and McRoberts had 114; as a PF/C. I realize McRoberts is a good passer for a big, but come on.

Good vision and great passing don't produce a career A/TO ratio of 1.4

dukestheheat
07-19-2007, 03:27 PM
Classof06-

I understand your issue on Paulus' passing; it seems to me that you're looking at the issue from merely a 'numbers' standpoint and not that that is a bad thing at all, but I do see Paulus as a 'great passer' and here's why:

He does thread the needle quite well in some instances. I do think that he brings the same acuity needed in football to hit a receiver in traffic to his game on the basketball court. Indeed, he does turn the ball over a lot. But the passes HE DOES hit are, in some cases, spectacular in my opinion and that's why I do label him a 'great passer'.

just a diff perspective, is all.

dth.

mapei
07-19-2007, 03:56 PM
The best passer I have seen in college ball in the last decade is Diana Taurasi.

mgtr
07-19-2007, 04:25 PM
Good one! She does a great job, and deserves more plaudits than she gets.

lavell12
07-20-2007, 06:21 PM
The best passer I have seen in college ball in the last decade is Diana Taurasi.

McRoberts was the best passer on the team last year.