Dawkins minutes at the 3?

[coot]

Coach K will certainly have Andre on the floor for respectable minutes this season. However it seems to me that Austin and Seth will log more time than Andre at the crowded 2 position. We know Andre will play the 2 since he is a great shooter. So, how does Andre get some of his time at the 3? Michael, Alex, Ryan.....it's gonna be crowded at the 3 (and at the 2). Hope Andre can play really good defense and rebound well. If not, he might be just an often the bench shooter in many games. Thoughts?

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Coach K will certainly have Andre on the floor for respectable minutes this season. However it seems to me that Austin and Seth will log more time than Andre at the crowded 2 position. We know Andre will play the 2 since he is a great shooter. So, how does Andre get some of his time at the 3? Michael, Alex, Ryan.....it's gonna be crowded at the 3 (and at the 2). Hope Andre can play really good defense and rebound well. If not, he might be just an often the bench shooter in many games. Thoughts?
Dre spelled Kyle at the 3 last year at times. He'll play plenty of minutes there this year too. Remember, we don't have positions, we have players, and Dre is a player. :D

[Verga3]

Dre spelled Kyle at the 3 last year at times. He'll play plenty of minutes there this year too. Remember, we don't have positions, we have players, and Dre is a player. :D

Very well-stated and agree, Ozzie. Dre is a player and would be very surprised if he is not an impact guy at the 2or the 3.

[coot]

Dre spelled Kyle at the 3 last year at times. He'll play plenty of minutes there this year too. Remember, we don't have positions, we have players, and Dre is a player. :D


Ok, Dre is a player and I agree he will be an impact. I hope he is a major impact. To me, he could be an important piece. His defense and dribble drive will be vitale.... For him, this team, and his future. Shooters are a dime a dozen. You gotta be special to help become a final four team.

Is his defense and dribble drive enough to put him at 25 minutes a game??? He is one of the players we are looking for to step up (like Notan his junior year).

[hq2]

Well, we need him to step up some, although I'm sure Austin and Seth can handle the backcourt scoring pretty well.
I'd say he'll probably be used more in some kind of quasi-three guard offense. Him and Austin both being around 6-5
gives us decent size in that kind of setup, so I'd look to see him play in that role.

[Bob Green]

His defense and dribble drive will be vitale....

Tell me it isn't true...one Dickie is enough! :D

Okay, seriously, to offer up an opinion on your question, Andre Dawkins is a junior who has gained boat loads of experience over the previous two seasons. Specifically, he has gained boat loads of defensive experience! I expect he will start at small forward/wing guard plus play minutes at off guard in relief of Curry and Rivers.

Yes, Michael Gbinije and Alex Murphy will compete for immediate playing time, but Andre Dawkins will be the starter. IMO, of course...

[nmduke2001]

Not only do I expect Dre to start, I expect him to make the All-ACC team. Call me crazy, but I think it is his time to shine.

[uh_no]

Not only do I expect Dre to start, I expect him to make the All-ACC team. Call me crazy, but I think it is his time to shine.

Certainly has the skills to do it. He needs to have it consistently game in and game out, though.

We can't have one day be a dre day, and the next be a NAY day.

[CDu]

Coach K will certainly have Andre on the floor for respectable minutes this season. However it seems to me that Austin and Seth will log more time than Andre at the crowded 2 position. We know Andre will play the 2 since he is a great shooter. So, how does Andre get some of his time at the 3? Michael, Alex, Ryan.....it's gonna be crowded at the 3 (and at the 2). Hope Andre can play really good defense and rebound well. If not, he might be just an often the bench shooter in many games. Thoughts?

I would actually expect that a good portion (if not most) of Dawkins' minutes will come at the 3. He got a good deal of his playing time there last year, and I'd expect Rivers, Curry, and Thornton/Cook to take the vast majority of the minutes at PG and the smaller wing (or SG, or 2).

Also, I see no chance that Ryan Kelly plays the 3 this year. So the crowd at the 3 is Dawkins, Gbinije, and Murphy.

Given the number of talented players on the roster, it's going to be crowded at every spot.

[burns15]

Certainly has the skills to do it. He needs to have it consistently game in and game out, though.

We can't have one day be a dre day, and the next be a NAY day.

I'm not quite sure how this will affect Dawkins, but per the coaching staff, Tyler Thornton is THE point guard on this team. From that you would have to assume that the starting backcourt will consist of Tyler and then some combo of Rivers, Dawkins, & Curry. I could see a situation where Rivers does not start at the beginning of the year b/c according to the coaching staff, his defense is well behnid where it needs to be, yet they do acknowledge that he is phenomenal offensively.

Take it FWIW, but these are straight from the coaching staff through a former Duke player

[uh_no]

I'm not quite sure how this will affect Dawkins, but per the coaching staff, Tyler Thornton is THE point guard on this team. From that you would have to assume that the starting backcourt will consist of Tyler and then some combo of Rivers, Dawkins, & Curry. I could see a situation where Rivers does not start at the beginning of the year b/c according to the coaching staff, his defense is well behnid where it needs to be, yet they do acknowledge that he is phenomenal offensively.

Take it FWIW, but these are straight from the coaching staff through a former Duke player

I might have missed it, but can you link to where the coaching staff said that Tyler Thornton would be our starting point guard? or starting at all for that matter? I, personally, would be shocked if austin didn't start from day 1.

Also a word of note: something can't be "straight fromt he coaching staff" if it came through an anonymous 3rd party ("former player" or not.) Furthermore, I was told by Todd last february that Kyrie would not be returning and that Dre was transferring: so sometimes even they about things about which they haven't a clue.

[COYS]

I'm not quite sure how this will affect Dawkins, but per the coaching staff, Tyler Thornton is THE point guard on this team. From that you would have to assume that the starting backcourt will consist of Tyler and then some combo of Rivers, Dawkins, & Curry. I could see a situation where Rivers does not start at the beginning of the year b/c according to the coaching staff, his defense is well behnid where it needs to be, yet they do acknowledge that he is phenomenal offensively.

Take it FWIW, but these are straight from the coaching staff through a former Duke player

I believe you are referring to some quotes from Nolan from a few months ago, no? There have been many more quotes from the staff since then that would indicate that Seth Curry will have every opportunity to earn the starting nod and will be a co-primary ball-handler along with Rivers. Now, is it possible that Tyler comes out in practice a completely new man who not only plays lock down defense, but also is able to lead the offense in ways that no one expected? It certainly possible, but personally I hope that Tyler continues to improve, provides excellent play off the bench, but doesn't start because Curry has taken the next step and is able to provide excellent defense and offense from the lead-guard spot along with Rivers. Consider that Seth Curry posted a 13.5% assist rate (http://www.kenpom.com/team.php?team=Duke) last year compared to Tyler's marginally better 14.1%. However, Curry's turnover rate was an impressive 13.3% (good for 187th in the nation for a guard playing his first season in the ACC who spent a significant amount of time leading the offense when Nolan was out or off the ball) compared to Thornton's 33.8%. Not only did Seth distribute the ball about as well as Thornton did last season, he valued the ball significantly more in addition to scoring at a high level (43% on 3's and an overall offensive rating of 121.7 compared to 104.1 for Tyler). Curry also led the team in steal rate, which isn't everything when it comes to defense, but is still a reminder that Curry is no slouch on that end, either. I expect Tyler to improve on his turnover rate now that he's got a year under his belt. However, Seth's numbers were significantly better than Tyler's across the board last season except for assist rate, where they were pretty much equal. If Tyler were able to match Seth's numbers from last season, it would represent an astronomical improvement and I think all Duke fans would be ecstatic. However, even if he is able to accomplish this feat, I still don't think it would be enough to supplant Seth because I also expect Seth to improve across the board, as well. Seth proved in limited minutes that he could manage the offense last season. I expect to see Seth improve on that in a fashion more similar to Scheyer than to Irving in the coming season, and I think that the team will be in excellent shape with Seth leading the offense alongside Austin with Quinn and Tyler providing valuable minutes, as well.

[gumbomoop]

Given the number of talented players on the roster, it's going to be crowded at every spot.

Excellent point. Also, lots of talent at every spot. Also, lack of experienced depth at some spots. It would be one thing if, going in, we knew Duke would have to depend on all 5 frosh to be major contributors. But in fact we probably need only Austin and either Gbinije or Murphy to step up this season. If we get pretty good help from 3 of the 5, we're gold....


We can't have one day be a dre day, and the next be a NAY day.

.... assuming, of course, it's Yay Dre, not Nay Dre.

[Huh?]

Quote from Curry: "I want to be faster," Curry said. "I'll be at point guard, so I'll need to pick up things full court and will be seeing more minutes."
Curry Link (http://www.heraldsun.com/view/full_story/14849870/article-Curry--Dawkins-looking-to-expand-their-roles-with-Duke-this-season?instance=most_popular)

I always assumed he would start PG, Rivers at the 2 and Dawkins at the 3. Three great shooters that will open everything up.

[burns15]

I might have missed it, but can you link to where the coaching staff said that Tyler Thornton would be our starting point guard? or starting at all for that matter? I, personally, would be shocked if austin didn't start from day 1.

Also a word of note: something can't be "straight fromt he coaching staff" if it came through an anonymous 3rd party ("former player" or not.) Furthermore, I was told by Todd last february that Kyrie would not be returning and that Dre was transferring: so sometimes even they about things about which they haven't a clue.

No I cannot link a story when I was told it directly by Mark Alarie, who was at Duke recently and talked with the coaches about the team. Yes it is straight from the coaching staff since one of the members of the coaching staff told him to his face and he told me. The part about Austin not starting was speculation on my part, but the part about Thornton and the part about Rivers' defense is straight from the coaching staff. Furthermore, I never said starting PG, the words I got were "THE point guard." I'm assuming that means he will start... but you never know because K plays the best 5 basketball players regardless of position. I'm just sharing what I am told... that is all

[burns15]

Excellent point. Also, lots of talent at every spot. Also, lack of experienced depth at some spots. It would be one thing if, going in, we knew Duke would have to depend on all 5 frosh to be major contributors. But in fact we probably need only Austin and either Gbinije or Murphy to step up this season. If we get pretty good help from 3 of the 5, we're gold....



.... assuming, of course, it's Yay Dre, not Nay Dre.

I would think Quinn Cook playing well would be a necessity if you want any offense from the 1 position off the bench, unless like I mentioned above Thornton does actually start...in which case Curry could possibly be the solution there if he does not start. Remember, better players than Curry have been used in a 6th man role (think Nate James in 2001, or even outside Duke think Morris Peterson for Michigan State). I think, if used that way, Curry actually profiles perfectly as a 6th man, instant offense and a spark off the bench

[jimrowe0]

I would think Quinn Cook playing well would be a necessity if you want any offense from the 1 position off the bench, unless like I mentioned above Thornton does actually start...in which case Curry could possibly be the solution there if he does not start. Remember, better players than Curry have been used in a 6th man role (think Nate James in 2001, or even outside Duke think Morris Peterson for Michigan State). I think, if used that way, Curry actually profiles perfectly as a 6th man, instant offense and a spark off the bench

Curry will start from Day 1 at the PG position.

[coot]

.....one day be a dre day, and the next be a NAY day.

This quote is why I posted this thread A "nay day" Dre will result in less time for Dre on the floor. Being that I'm fond of him as a player, I'm hoping he will be strong defensively and demand his court time. A much improved dribble drive would also be good for him, the team, and our final four chances. Dre is a great shooter. If he can be stronger in these other areas mentioned, a younger player can keep the bench warm for him rather than vise versa.

Dre's experience will help a lot, if he can be one of the key players. The potential is there and he's a junior; it's time to show me the money.

[burns15]

Curry will start from Day 1 at the PG position.

From what I am to understand, this is nothing more than your opinion right?

[CDu]

From what I am to understand, this is nothing more than your opinion right?

Well, there are a few facts that provide support for the idea of Curry starting at PG from day 1:
- he played significantly more minutes than Thornton last year
- he is has much more experience (both overall and within the Duke system)
- he put up better numbers in the minutes he played (better A/TO, fewer f/m, better offense, etc)
- he has spent the offseason working on PG skills with the idea of playing that position

And some part/fact part opinion stuff as well:
- he's a better player
- Rivers is a good enough ballhandler that we don't need a "pure PG" to start alongside him
- Thornton wasn't all that impressive last year

[jimrowe0]

Well, there are a few facts that provide support for the idea of Curry starting at PG from day 1:
- he played significantly more minutes than Thornton last year
- he is has much more experience (both overall and within the Duke system)
- he put up better numbers in the minutes he played (better A/TO, fewer f/m, better offense, etc)
- he has spent the offseason working on PG skills with the idea of playing that position

And some part/fact part opinion stuff as well:
- he's a better player
- Rivers is a good enough ballhandler that we don't need a "pure PG" to start alongside him
- Thornton wasn't all that impressive last year

Like CDu said, I believe Curry will start based on the reasons above. Keeping in mind that Rivers will see a significant amount of the ball-handling duties.

[uh_no]

From what I am to understand, this is nothing more than your opinion right?

Judging by the poll last week, it seems to be that this is a very widely held opinion among DBR folks.

[loldevilz]

From what I am to understand, this is nothing more than your opinion right?

According to GoDuke.com he plays point guard in practice.

[johnb]

Seems unlikely the coaches are sure who will start the first game, much less who will start in January. That seems likely to generally be true, and is even more likely when we have a team without any proven stars but filled with guys who are potentially nba players.

[ChillinDuke]

Well, there are a few facts that provide support for the idea of Curry starting at PG from day 1:
- he played significantly more minutes than Thornton last year
- he is has much more experience (both overall and within the Duke system)
- he put up better numbers in the minutes he played (better A/TO, fewer f/m, better offense, etc)
- he has spent the offseason working on PG skills with the idea of playing that position

And some part/fact part opinion stuff as well:
- he's a better player
- Rivers is a good enough ballhandler that we don't need a "pure PG" to start alongside him
- Thornton wasn't all that impressive last year

But I agree completely with CDu. The possibility of Thornton overtaking Curry this season is just not likely. According to ESPN Curry played 924 minutes last year to Thornton's 337. Almost 3x more minutes.

How many times has a player with less overall playing time (no injuries involved) overtaken his counterpart who played more in a previous season? I'm sure it has happened, but it's not likely, and less so in this specific scenario. Especially given the substantial disparity.

Love me some Ty Thornton, but not gonna happen.

[CDu]

But I agree completely with CDu. The possibility of Thornton overtaking Curry this season is just not likely. According to ESPN Curry played 924 minutes last year to Thornton's 337. Almost 3x more minutes.

How many times has a player with less overall playing time (no injuries involved) overtaken his counterpart who played more in a previous season? I'm sure it has happened, but it's not likely, and less so in this specific scenario. Especially given the substantial disparity.

Love me some Ty Thornton, but not gonna happen.

Yeah, I've frequently stated that people on this board overuse/misuse the "Duke doesn't have positions" argument (usually in regard to the idea of Kelly or Hairston playing SF). But in this case, I think the phrase applies. Thornton is arguably more of a "true PG" than Curry, but Curry appears to be a far superior player. I'll be very very surprised to see Thornton start for us over Curry. And with Rivers able to create offense and handle the ball as well, I think there's even less need for a "true PG."

As an aside, I think some have overstated the performance of Thornton as a PG and as a defensive stopper last year. He rarely guarded the opponent's best guard and he rarely ran the offense. Both of those roles fell to Smith (or to Irving on offense when Irving was healthy). And Thornton was a foul machine when he was in there (1 foul every 6 minutes).

[uh_no]

And Thornton was a foul machine when he was in there (1 foul every 6 minutes).

I think he needs to get some of that Zoubek Zen

[Newton_14]

I will be shocked if Andre does not play 28+ minutes this year with the bulk of the minutes coming at the 3 and the rest of the minutes at the 2. It is his time and I feel he is ready. Duke will need him to be ready. I do feel that Seth will play more PG than anything else. I think Tyler will be in the rotation due to his defense and leadership, and he will build on the mpg he saw last year, but will not play as many minutes as Seth, Andre, and Austin. Tyler will sub in for Seth or Austin, and even at times Andre(with Austin or someone else moving over to Small Forward when that happens). Those 4 will form the core of the backcourt, with Seth, Austin, and Tyler being the primary ballhandlers with any of those 3 playing PG at any given time.

Thats my take, as of right now anyway.

[delfrio]

I think Tyler will be in the rotation due to his defense and leadership, and he will build on the mpg he saw last year, but will not play as many minutes as Seth, Andre, and Austin. Tyler will sub in for Seth or Austin, and even at times Andre(with Austin or someone else moving over to Small Forward when that happens). Those 4 will form the core of the backcourt, with Seth, Austin, and Tyler being the primary ballhandlers with any of those 3 playing PG at any given time.


No room for Quinn? Seems he could challenge Tyler for minutes.

[Newton_14]

No room for Quinn? Seems he could challenge Tyler for minutes.

Quinn is a wild-card for me. To be honest, I have not seen Quinn enough yet to assess him. Given his talent level, he certainly can challenge for minutes. However, given that he is a freshman who will have to learn the Duke defense, he has more work to do than the other guys to establish himself. If he were in the Top 5 or Top 10 of his recruiting class, I would likely give him more benefit of the doubt, having not seen him much, but history suggests it takes longer for recruits outside the Top 5/10 to settle in. I am not dismissing him at all, I just think he may need some time.

I do think long-term Quinn will become a really good player, though.

[devildeac]

Quinn is a wild-card for me. To be honest, I have not seen Quinn enough yet to assess him. Given his talent level, he certainly can challenge for minutes. However, given that he is a freshman who will have to learn the Duke defense, he has more work to do than the other guys to establish himself. If he were in the Top 5 or Top 10 of his recruiting class, I would likely give him more benefit of the doubt, having not seen him much, but history suggests it takes longer for recruits outside the Top 5/10 to settle in. I am not dismissing him at all, I just think he may need some time.

I do think long-term Quinn will become a really good player, though.

It will be very interesting to read any reports we might get from the China trip about where/when/how much/how well he plays. I don't recall any observations/summaries of his performances so far this summer, especially from any of the folks who have attended the Pro-Am.

[Newton_14]

It will be very interesting to read any reports we might get from the China trip about where/when/how much/how well he plays. I don't recall any observations/summaries of his performances so far this summer, especially from any of the folks who have attended the Pro-Am.

I agree with you regarding the China trip. I can't wait for that and hope that we luck out and all 4 are televised. Lots of "shaking out" to come with this team for sure. Regarding Quinn, I did not see him last week when I went to the Pro-Am, but I read somewhere that Quinn was currently resting his knee and not participating in the Pro-Am at the moment. Airowe or Mike Corey may can share more on that, or Watzone. I am heading back out there this week.

[gumbomoop]

I will be shocked if Andre does not play 28+ minutes this year with the bulk of the minutes coming at the 3 and the rest of the minutes at the 2.

Newton_14, you shock too easily. I'll pick a fight with you here, in the spirit of friendly disagreement. Ok?

I definitely think Andre plays a lot on the wing [for I don't much distinguish between the 2 and 3]. But as I ponder your implied 28-30 mpg, I start thinking. [This sometimes leads to problems.] That you would be "shocked" if this prediction does not come true, shocks me. [Appears I shock too easily, too.]

Seems to me that Andre would get 28-30 mpg only if K gradually winnows the guys who play to maybe 7, 8 at most. Now I can easily see 3 guys gradually slipping toward DNP-land as the season progresses. I assume the most logical candidates would be Josh, Marshall, and one of Quinn, Tyler, Alex, and Michael.

As do most, but not all, posters, I assume Seth will settle into the main PG. If by chance either Quinn or Tyler picks up substantial minutes at PG, then that means Seth joins Austin and Andre on the wing, at least for some minutes. Similarly, if either [not even to mention both] Alex or Michael picks up substantial minutes on the wing, then the wing becomes very, very crowded.

So, trying to fight fair, if I disagree with you about who plays how much by, say, January [after some winnowing has occurred], I'd say I'd be shocked if Andre plays as much as 28 mpg. Maybe 25-26. So if you'd given Andre a somewhat broader window-of-PT, like 25-30, then ... ah hell, I'd still have quibbled, nibbling at that upper end. [I need a break from the Congressional circus.]

Not so incidentally, do I infer from your prediction that you're thinking Andre and maybe Austin will lead the team in late-season mpg at around 30 each?

[Kedsy]

Coach K will certainly have Andre on the floor for respectable minutes this season. However it seems to me that Austin and Seth will log more time than Andre at the crowded 2 position. We know Andre will play the 2 since he is a great shooter. So, how does Andre get some of his time at the 3? Michael, Alex, Ryan.....it's gonna be crowded at the 3 (and at the 2). Hope Andre can play really good defense and rebound well. If not, he might be just an often the bench shooter in many games. Thoughts?

First of all, let me say I agree with those who believe Seth will start at PG over Tyler and Andre will start at SF over a couple of unproven freshmen. (I'd be very surprised if Ryan plays the "3" at all next season, contrary to coot's suggestion, above, so I don't think Ryan should count as competition for Andre.) I expect Austin to play SG most of the time, also contrary to coot's statement that Andre will "play the 2."


But I agree completely with CDu. The possibility of Thornton overtaking Curry this season is just not likely. According to ESPN Curry played 924 minutes last year to Thornton's 337. Almost 3x more minutes.

How many times has a player with less overall playing time (no injuries involved) overtaken his counterpart who played more in a previous season? I'm sure it has happened, but it's not likely, and less so in this specific scenario. Especially given the substantial disparity.

Love me some Ty Thornton, but not gonna happen.

Having said I agree, I would like to respond to ChillinDuke's question: in order to observe this phenomenon you'd have to go all the way back to... last season.

In 2009-10, Miles logged 654 minutes to Mason's 480* and Ryan's 227. In 2010-11, Mason played 949 minutes, Ryan played 743, and Miles played 628. Going back just two more seasons, in 2007-08, Greg Paulus got 943 minutes while Nolan got 500. In 2008-09, Nolan logged 734 minutes to Greg's 578. I didn't go back further than that for specifics, but I'm pretty sure it has happened many, many times. So I disagree that for this to happen would be so unlikely, in general.

Now, having said that, I still agree with ChillinDuke that it is unlikely to happen in this specific scenario, primarily for the reason's CDu pointed out, essentially that Seth is a better player than Tyler and thus will probably start and play more minutes than Tyler.


* - I know Mason did have an injury in 2009-10, but even without it I doubt he would have overtaken his brother's minutes that year. Obviously we don't know for sure. Even if you want to discount that, Ryan did it, too.

[devildeac]

I agree with you regarding the China trip. I can't wait for that and hope that we luck out and all 4 are televised. Lots of "shaking out" to come with this team for sure. Regarding Quinn, I did not see him last week when I went to the Pro-Am, but I read somewhere that Quinn was currently resting his knee and not participating in the Pro-Am at the moment. Airowe or Mike Corey may can share more on that, or Watzone. I am heading back out there this week.

I had also heard/read about rest/knee/Pro-Am in the same sentence WRT Quinn. Hope he is healing. Quickly. And completely.

[Newton_14]

Newton_14, you shock too easily. I'll pick a fight with you here, in the spirit of friendly disagreement. Ok?

I definitely think Andre plays a lot on the wing [for I don't much distinguish between the 2 and 3]. But as I ponder your implied 28-30 mpg, I start thinking. [This sometimes leads to problems.] That you would be "shocked" if this prediction does not come true, shocks me. [Appears I shock too easily, too.]

Seems to me that Andre would get 28-30 mpg only if K gradually winnows the guys who play to maybe 7, 8 at most. Now I can easily see 3 guys gradually slipping toward DNP-land as the season progresses. I assume the most logical candidates would be Josh, Marshall, and one of Quinn, Tyler, Alex, and Michael.

As do most, but not all, posters, I assume Seth will settle into the main PG. If by chance either Quinn or Tyler picks up substantial minutes at PG, then that means Seth joins Austin and Andre on the wing, at least for some minutes. Similarly, if either [not even to mention both] Alex or Michael picks up substantial minutes on the wing, then the wing becomes very, very crowded.

So, trying to fight fair, if I disagree with you about who plays how much by, say, January [after some winnowing has occurred], I'd say I'd be shocked if Andre plays as much as 28 mpg. Maybe 25-26. So if you'd given Andre a somewhat broader window-of-PT, like 25-30, then ... ah hell, I'd still have quibbled, nibbling at that upper end. [I need a break from the Congressional circus.]

Not so incidentally, do I infer from your prediction that you're thinking Andre and maybe Austin will lead the team in late-season mpg at around 30 each?

Nothing wrong with a little friendly fighting in the spirit of good debate and discussion. I admit there is good debate on both sides of the coin (does Andre play 28+ or >25ish), especially given the many unknowns with this team. I fully agree that the wing is crowded as well.

The basis of my argument is where I feel Andre is as a player. A rising Jr, 2 years under his belt, one a National Championship team, where he played a small but key role in (recall his play in the ACC Title game against GaTech, and his 2 huge shots in the Regional Title game). Last year he came out of the gate strong, got knocked back, then came on strong down the stretch on both offense and defense. He has a lot of positive moments to draw on and he has been tested in big games. I feel like he is ready to take the next step. He averaged 21mpg last year in an up and down year as a Sophomore with Kyle Singler getting a lot of minutes at the 3. Seems reasonable to me that as a Jr, with Kyle in the NBA, Andre can increase the mpg by 7 or more.

In my view, Andre will be one of the top 4 players on this team, and as season's progress, K, like you alluded to, tends to winnow the PT down for the tweeners and up for the top guys. Last year Andre was down around 7 or 8 in the rotation list, and this year I feel he will be in the top 4 of the rotation list, which likely will put him around the 28ish mpg.

Flipping to your side of the argument, the case could be made the either or both of Murphy and Silent G (I seriously have to learn how to spell that kids name from memory, sigh) pushing hard for minutes at the 3 as well. Could be a dogfight if those guys are ready. The thing is, I don't know how ready they are, but I am confident Andre is ready.

To your last question, I think Austin, Seth, and Andre will be leading the team in mpg, and Mason will be garnering the most mpg of the bigs. Heading into the season, those are my likely candidates for leaders in mpg. I expect Ryan and Miles will be stalwarts in the rotation as well...

I can't wait for China, to see the many combinations K runs out there, and how the guys respond. Leaders will emerge, which will be fun to watch.

[gep]

... The basis of my argument is where I feel Andre is as a player. A rising Jr, 2 years under his belt, one a National Championship team, where he played a small but key role in (recall his play in the ACC Title game against GaTech, and his 2 huge shots in the Regional Title game). Last year he came out of the gate strong, got knocked back, then came on strong down the stretch on both offense and defense. He has a lot of positive moments to draw on and he has been tested in big games. I feel like he is ready to take the next step. He averaged 21mpg last year in an up and down year as a Sophomore with Kyle Singler getting a lot of minutes at the 3. Seems reasonable to me that as a Jr, with Kyle in the NBA, Andre can increase the mpg by 7 or more.

...

Flipping to your side of the argument, the case could be made the either or both of Murphy and Silent G (I seriously have to learn how to spell that kids name from memory, sigh) pushing hard for minutes at the 3 as well. Could be a dogfight if those guys are ready. The thing is, I don't know how ready they are, but I am confident Andre is ready ...


first bolded... I agree Andre came on strong at the end. In the 2nd unc game, it's been posted elsewhere that he did a good job H.Barnes when he defended. Also mentioned elsewhere that Andre may do much better guarding 3's / 4's rather than quick guards. So if he's at the "3", maybe that's his "real" position this year.

seconded bolded... I also am very confident that Andre is ready. Last year, others have complained that Andre seemed to just stand around on offense waiting for a pass for a jumper. I still think that Andre did that under strict instructions by the coaching staff. Otherwise, I don't think he plays. JJ did all that running around since he was the primary scorer (along with Shel). But if Andre just kept running around, maybe he becomes a distraction to the offense, with Nolan and Kyle as the primaries. Maybe if Andre stands in the "right" spot, Nolan and/or Kyle have their lanes, etc to score.

just my thoughts from a fan (no expert at all)...:cool:

[gumbomoop]

... good debate on both sides of the coin (does Andre play 28+ or >25ish), especially given the many unknowns with this team. I fully agree that the wing is crowded as well.

The basis of my argument is where I feel Andre is as a player.....In my view, Andre will be one of the top 4 players on this team.... I think Austin, Seth, and Andre will be leading the team in mpg, and Mason will be garnering the most mpg of the bigs.

In picking the fight with you, I was being picky. I mostly agree with you and gep ^ [except for gep's ref to Andre guarding 4's, as I tend to lump 2s and 3s together as wings, and 4s and 5s together as bigs - Andre's definitely a wing].

The essence of the issue - neither surprise nor disagreement here - is how crowded and exactly why the wing may become. Your, gep's, and other posters' understandable view focuses on Andre's experience and development. My picky-picky focuses on whether any 2 of these 4 - Gbinije, Murphy, Thornton, Cook - merit substantial PT. I think it's logical to argue that if in fact any 2 of those come strong, then wow, the wing does get real crowded. But taking your view, it's equally logical to say that if either none or only one of those 4 emerges, then Andre's minutes will nudge higher. I suppose one could further speculate that if Murphy is one of the hypothetical-2, well, he could log some time as a 4/semi-big [btw, is that what "stretch 4" means?], and so would not constitute part of the crowded wing. But we're all pretty sure that the main bigs-rotation will be Mason, Miles, and Ryan.

And yes, I do agree that Andre will be among the top 3 in mpg. Mason could conceivably sneak into that top 3, were he to avoid fouling and develop a go-to move; hope so. [Definitely hope so; my Mason-motto is: "Mason, get a move on!"] Even if the wing gets very crowded, hard for me to predict [so I won't] that any of Thornton, Cook, Murphy, or Gbinije would log more minutes than Andre.

[CDu]

first bolded... I agree Andre came on strong at the end. In the 2nd unc game, it's been posted elsewhere that he did a good job H.Barnes when he defended. Also mentioned elsewhere that Andre may do much better guarding 3's / 4's rather than quick guards. So if he's at the "3", maybe that's his "real" position this year.

seconded bolded... I also am very confident that Andre is ready. Last year, others have complained that Andre seemed to just stand around on offense waiting for a pass for a jumper. I still think that Andre did that under strict instructions by the coaching staff. Otherwise, I don't think he plays. JJ did all that running around since he was the primary scorer (along with Shel). But if Andre just kept running around, maybe he becomes a distraction to the offense, with Nolan and Kyle as the primaries. Maybe if Andre stands in the "right" spot, Nolan and/or Kyle have their lanes, etc to score.

just my thoughts from a fan (no expert at all)...:cool:

The 2/3 (or SG/SF, or wing) spot in college is largely interchangeable. I think Dawkins is best suited to defend either of those two spots. I definitely don't think he's suited to defend the 4 spot, nor would I lump the 3 and 4 together at the college level. I do think/hope Dawkins is ready, and I think he'll be playing the position (2/3) he's best suited for.

[superdave]

I had also heard/read about rest/knee/Pro-Am in the same sentence WRT Quinn. Hope he is healing. Quickly. And completely.

Does anyone have insight on Quinn's knee? The injury was about 11 months ago (http://www.aolnews.com/2010/09/03/quinn-cook-didnt-tear-acl-likely-to-return-in-five-weeks/) and he played a substantial amount during that time, and at a high level.

A few questions on this - Has Quinn been resting the knee this summer? To what extent? Will he see limited action in China because he is resting it? Are there lingering issues here or is this just the staff being cautious?

Anyone? Bueller?

[MCFinARL]

Does anyone have insight on Quinn's knee? The injury was about 11 months ago (http://www.aolnews.com/2010/09/03/quinn-cook-didnt-tear-acl-likely-to-return-in-five-weeks/) and he played a substantial amount during that time, and at a high level.

A few questions on this - Has Quinn been resting the knee this summer? To what extent? Will he see limited action in China because he is resting it? Are there lingering issues here or is this just the staff being cautious?

Anyone? Bueller?

I'm sure there are people on this board with much better info than I have, but I remember Quinn saying in an interview piece a couple of months ago that he had access to much better care and training re the knee at Duke than he had had at Oak Hill. So maybe some of what is going on now is just making sure that it is fully healed and repairing any damage from playing too much too soon.

[jimsumner]

My best guess right now is that Curry, Rivers and Dawkins will start at the 3 perimeter positions for Duke. But I suspect there will be some shakeups along the way. This is a team with a lot of talent but a lot of ill-defined roles, which is a template for some lineup experimentation.

It should be noted that there are lots of examples over the years of Player A being behind Player B at some point in their Duke careers and then being ahead of Player B at a latter point in their Duke careers. Examples would include Dan Meagher/Doug McNeely; John Smith/Marty Nessley; John Smith/Robert Brickey; Brian Davis/Greg Koubek; Thomas Hill/Billy McCaffrey; Wojo/Capel; Chris Carrawell/Ricky Price; Carrawell/Mike Chappell; Carrawell/Greg Newton; and more recent examples already cited, e.g. Paulus and Smith.

K tends to have a meritocracy. Players are not grandfathered into PT.

That said, I suspect Curry will play ahead of Thornton this year because he's better this year. Not because he was better last year.

[superdave]

WRALSportsFan WRALSportsFan
by DukeHoopBlog
RT @JasonJennings5: Per Coach K, Quinn Cook's nagging injury will "shut him down" until mid-Sept. #Duke
4 minutes ago


Looks like no Quinn in China. I think this will set him back fairly significantly going into the season. But as a freshman he needs to look at the long run and be careful.

[COYS]

WRALSportsFan WRALSportsFan
by DukeHoopBlog
RT @JasonJennings5: Per Coach K, Quinn Cook's nagging injury will "shut him down" until mid-Sept. #Duke
4 minutes ago


Looks like no Quinn in China. I think this will set him back fairly significantly going into the season. But as a freshman he needs to look at the long run and be careful.

I am sorry to hear that but I hope he has a speedy recovery. Pre season injuries for freshmen are tough to overcome, but hopefully he'll come back stronger than ever.

[ArnieMc]

WRALSportsFan WRALSportsFan
by DukeHoopBlog
RT @JasonJennings5: Per Coach K, Quinn Cook's nagging injury will "shut him down" until mid-Sept. #Duke
4 minutes ago


Looks like no Quinn in China. I think this will set him back fairly significantly going into the season. But as a freshman he needs to look at the long run and be careful.Am I the only one who saw the headline "Cook Out For China Trip" and thought we were going to have a special Brunchgate?