Calipari wants to "legally" pay his kids

[nmduke2001]

Most would presume that he already does pay his kids but now Calipari wants do secede from the NCAA so he can legally do it.

http://www.businessinsider.com/this-big-college-basketball-coach-wants-to-secede-from-the-ncaa-so-he-can-pay-his-players-2011-6

[Dukeface88]

Most would presume that he already does pay his kids but now Calipari wants do secede from the NCAA so he can legally do it.

http://www.businessinsider.com/this-big-college-basketball-coach-wants-to-secede-from-the-ncaa-so-he-can-pay-his-players-2011-6

Translation: I want to change the rules before I get caught. Again.

[Turtleboy]

The minute that players become employees I will lose all interest in college sports.

[DukeWarhead]

Says in there he wants to pay them a "living wage." WTF is that? They already have housing covered and the last time I checked, a pack of ramen noodles still costs about 15 cents.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

So he wants to create the NBDL with a bunch more teams? What a tool.

[Duvall]

So he wants to create the NBDL with a bunch more teams? What a tool.

Except the players will be paid with the proceeds from a basketball tournament that no one will want to watch.

[KenTankerous]

It shows what he thinks of the education and experience his players get. I mean, if you could get a full ride degree, major life lessons from the greatest coaches on the planet, the best preparations for the next level, be that basketball or life, wouldn't that be "payment" enough?

Oh but then you'd be at Duke, not the Greater Lexington Point Guard Development League.

Calipayme will be the death of this program. This is the last straw for me. I just threw away my UK hoodie and popped my mini wildcat ball. The fries just aint worth that much grease anymore.

[wilko]

Oh but then you'd be at Duke, not the Greater Lexington Point Guard Development League.


K NOW has a recruiting pitch NO ONE can Equal (as if he were not SOLID before..)
"Play 12 games for me and I can make you the top draft pick.."

[NSDukeFan]

K NOW has a recruiting pitch NO ONE can Equal (as if he were not SOLID before..)
"Play 12 games for me and I can make you the top draft pick.."

Cal replies with: "You don't even have to play for me and I can make you a top 3 pick."

[TampaDuke]

Says in there he wants to pay them a "living wage." WTF is that?

At least $33,000 (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=6000134), apparently.

[TheItinerantSon]

i don't understand the antipathy towards changing the rules to give players a 20K salary. They generate a TON of revenue and its not exactly going to charity, is it?

[Bluedog]

i don't understand the antipathy towards changing the rules to give players a 20K salary. They generate a TON of revenue and its not exactly going to charity, is it?

I don't think there's a ton of antipathy towards discussions, but people don't want it become a highest bidding school game. While it's true that the men's basketball team generates a ton of revenue for the school, the athletic departments of the VAST majority of schools LOSE money (including Duke). In fact, the last report I saw said Duke basketball on its own lost money, with expenses exceeding certain BCS teams by 5x as much (although it was said it was an accounting issue, I'm not really sure).

If you pay basketball players, some argue that you have to pay other athletes which would put the athletic department even more in the hole than it already is. On top of that, it's not like basketball players aren't getting anything out of it. They get a FREE education with ALL EXPENSES paid. And they get admitted to a school like Duke which has very high standards academically for its students. (I'm not arguing they're not deserving of admission; simply stating that typical academic standards are relaxed.) Graduating from such a school will provide them opportunities they probably wouldn't have had had they not been a basketball player. The players on the men's basketball team have an INSANE number of food points which they can use to buy food from off campus eateries (as long as they get it delivered on campus). They really should have no expenses unless they want a car.

Compared to a Duke student paying full freight, the basketball players are getting $55k a year or so in tuition, room, board, merchandise. Duke also (understandably) spends a large sum on travel expenses and other perks (which is $15k per individual for the summer trip to Beijing/Dubai alone). On top of that, they get preferred class scheduling, free tutoring, access to athlete-only facilities and academic resources, etc. Athletes are not treated poorly by any stretch.

Having said that, I do believe there is an unreasonable cap of income earned from summer work, but I understand that the NCAA is trying to prevent a school from employing its athletes in a non-existent summer job and then paying them $20k for the work. But if an athlete gets a job at a Wall Street bank over the summer (I believe Melchionni did that prior to his senior year), they should be able to get the full internship money.

In any event, I think the people above just don't want to see NCAA basketball become a minor league. It's main purpose is NOT to prepare its athletes for the NBA. Nor is it to provide for the livelihood through sports. Rather, schools provide a free education and opportunity for a lifetime of success while providing a highly competitive athletic atmosphere and opportunities for growth.

[Duvall]

i don't understand the antipathy towards changing the rules to give players a 20K salary. They generate a TON of revenue and its not exactly going to charity, is it?

Er, almost all of it *is* going to charity. Well, it goes to fund the scholarships and programs of non-revenue athletes - whether you want to count that as charity is up to you.

[killerleft]

Let's look at who Cal impresses with all this talk about players' salaries for college players: COLLEGE RECRUITS.

You need look no further. Foremost, Cal will use anything to get an "edge" on other coaches. Look at the players he has already brought to Kentucky by blowing up kids' egos. This is just another piece of candy from the Candy Man.

[TheItinerantSon]

Er, almost all of it *is* going to charity. Well, it goes to fund the scholarships and programs of non-revenue athletes - whether you want to count that as charity is up to you.

Why do we have the non-revenue sports in the first place? Spectator sports add something to the campus culture...I'm not sure what the other sports do other than spend money?

[sagegrouse]

Why do we have the non-revenue sports in the first place? Spectator sports add something to the campus culture...I'm not sure what the other sports do other than spend money?

You mean aside from offering true student-athletes a chance compete and develop their athletic skills?

Students, who often attend events in non-revenue sports, would not be expected to pay to watch any sport. So, your question implies the statement (is this the contrapositive?), "the only purpose of collegiate athletics is to sell tickets to people not enrolled in the university." Which is likely to get a universal "hunh?"

Your question is a reasonable one to ask from time to time.

sagegrouse

[Indoor66]

Why do we have the non-revenue sports in the first place? Spectator sports add something to the campus culture...I'm not sure what the other sports do other than spend money?

A sound mind in a sound body... I seem to remember seeing that somewhere. Not everything has to be about dollars and cents.

[Channing]

Why do we have the non-revenue sports in the first place? Spectator sports add something to the campus culture...I'm not sure what the other sports do other than spend money?

Non-revenue sports help define college life. But, even sticking within revenue sports, not every basketball program generates tons of dollars from their basketball programs. Do you suggest having teams like Duke and UNC pay their players while schools like VCU and Butler, who have far smaller athletic budgets, don't pay theirs?

[hughgs]

Why do we have the non-revenue sports in the first place? Spectator sports add something to the campus culture...I'm not sure what the other sports do other than spend money?

Hmm, Abby Johnston trying for the 2012 Olympics? Becca Ward trying to place in 2011 Worlds? Men's lacrosse looking to get paid to play lacrosse? Baseball players looking to play MLB (majors or minors)?

[uh_no]

Hmm, Abby Johnston trying for the 2012 Olympics? Becca Ward trying to place in 2011 Worlds? Men's lacrosse looking to get paid to play lacrosse? Baseball players looking to play MLB (majors or minors)?

Becca ward was an olympian before she came to duke. She has a coach outside of the duke coach. I think she would have been just fine whether fencing was an NCAA sport or not. There are tons of sports which aren't NCAA sanctioned and athletes manage to excel at them.

That said, I think athletics serve a vitally important vein to the culture of a university. Simply the idea that one can and should succeed in things besides academics is a very important lesson (something that a lot of students at colleges like Duke often forget).

I'm just pointing out that the fact that athletes try to excel at what they do is not necessarily a strong justification for non revenue sports (if it was, then why don't we have every sport available? underwater basket weaving anyone?)

[dukebluelemur]

Why do we have the non-revenue sports in the first place? Spectator sports add something to the campus culture...I'm not sure what the other sports do other than spend money?


A better question would be why should academic institutions continue to have anything to do with sports that are becoming more and more completely separate from the institutions mission. Players aren't there for school and don't finish school, the fans often don't have anything to do with the school, and half the teams out there spend most of their time trying to get around the minimal requirements that link them to academia.

Maybe its time for the US to ditch major college sports and go to a European club type system. Let sports for profit be sports for profit and stop bothering everyone with this inconvenient fiction of "Student Athletes". Let the people who want to get an education but like a competitive outlet on the side where they can show pride in their school continue to do so.

(Yes, I know its more complicated than that, but its a better question than yours.)

[Richard Berg]

I'm about as anti-NCAA as they come, but I can't support Cal here. As others have noticed, his proposal would simply turn college bball into a bidding war while driving athletic departments further into the red. It would be slightly more fair to a few top players -- slightly! -- but I see absolutely no advantage for schools or their fans.

So long as they are considering radical reform, I'd rather see the NCAA let go of its stranglehood on athletes' private lives. The ACM (http://www.acm.org/) does not snoop on students' interactions with corporate recruiters. They don't ban anyone because they spent summers on Google's payroll or contributed to "unapproved" projects. Their charter does not rival the Federal tax code in complexity. They simply host the competition and administer its prize pool.

[hughgs]

Becca ward was an olympian before she came to duke. She has a coach outside of the duke coach. I think she would have been just fine whether fencing was an NCAA sport or not. There are tons of sports which aren't NCAA sanctioned and athletes manage to excel at them.

That said, I think athletics serve a vitally important vein to the culture of a university. Simply the idea that one can and should succeed in things besides academics is a very important lesson (something that a lot of students at colleges like Duke often forget).

I'm just pointing out that the fact that athletes try to excel at what they do is not necessarily a strong justification for non revenue sports (if it was, then why don't we have every sport available? underwater basket weaving anyone?)

What about the other examples? Baseball and lacrosse are both non-revenue sports and some of those athletes are striving for professional contracts.

As to Becca Ward do you really think that she could've excelled at both Duke and fencing without the fencing team? She's probably smart enough to get away with that in high school, but the academic work-load is so much greater at Duke.

[uh_no]

What about the other examples? Baseball and lacrosse are both non-revenue sports and some of those athletes are striving for professional contracts.

As to Becca Ward do you really think that she could've excelled at both Duke and fencing without the fencing team? She's probably smart enough to get away with that in high school, but the academic work-load is so much greater at Duke.

What about a guy playing hockey trying to make the NHL? what does Duke offer him?

Absolutely she could have. There are Duke students who do amazing things all the time without the support of the university while dealing with the 'academic work load' which is 'so much greater at Duke.' Becca was #1 in the world before she came to Duke, and there's no reason to think that Duke "made" her good. (sort of like how we scoff at calipari taking credit for all his 1 and done first round picks) She's exceptionally smart to boot, and thus I have no misgivings claiming that she would have been just as successful at fencing with or without the Duke program.

[PADukeMom]

So he wants to create the NBDL with a bunch more teams? What a tool.

So then he can win as many national championships as his cold, tiny heart wants. I tend to agree that kids should get some sort of living allowance but $33,000??? Nah.

[hughgs]

What about a guy playing hockey trying to make the NHL? what does Duke offer him?

Thanks for the strawman response. The original question was what do non-revenue sports offer Duke students. The original question wasn't about what opportunities does Duke offers all non-revenue sports students. Since Duke doesn't have an NCAA hockey program then the original question doesn't address those students. And neither does my response.


Absolutely she could have. There are Duke students who do amazing things all the time without the support of the university while dealing with the 'academic work load' which is 'so much greater at Duke.' Becca was #1 in the world before she came to Duke, and there's no reason to think that Duke "made" her good. (sort of like how we scoff at calipari taking credit for all his 1 and done first round picks) She's exceptionally smart to boot, and thus I have no misgivings claiming that she would have been just as successful at fencing with or without the Duke program.

First of all I didn't say that Duke "made" her good. What I said was that I don't believe that she would have remained as good as she was without the assistance of the athletic department. You may disagree with me and you are possibly correct. But, knowing a little bit of what is required from the fencers and the support they receive on both the academic and non-academic side I personally believe that Duke has played a huge role in allowing Becca to remain one of the top fencers in the world while getting her degree. Could she have done that if she was at a school that didn't offer fencing? Maybe, but I find that difficult to accept.