2011 S.J.G Greater NC Pro-Am @ NC Central- Discussion Thread

[Newton_14]

It is that time again. Here is the link to the Pro-Am website:http://www.ncproam.com/

Use this thread for updates on the event itself as well as to discuss games and players once play begins.

Note that teams have not been selected yet. Rosters should be available June 29. Also, please note you will have to catch our guys early as they will withdraw to leave for China in early August. The Pro-Am will end before the guys return from China.

* One big change this year is due to "Big Brother" messing things up. The NCAA has ruled that High School players will not be allowed to participate which stinks. Only current College, NBA, and former College and NBA players can participate. Last year we were treated to the likes of Quincy Miller, MP3, and Duece Bello, but no more.

** Another new item, is this year there will be a women's league as well. Pretty cool. Have not heard yet, but I assume several of our Lady Blue Devils will be competing.

Key Dates:
June 25-26- Tryouts and rosters completed for the men and women at Cary Academy
June 30- Regular Season Play begins.
TBD- No date has been set yet for the start of the single elimination tourney

I will update the thread as soon as rosters are available. If you live local and have not previously attended, I would encourage you to go. It is a fun atmosphere and competition is normally good keeping in mind it is a summer league. I will say I find the games much more enjoyable than the High School All Star games.

Last year I watched Kyrie put on an absolute show in a game that went to the wire and the building was so full the fire marshalls had to close the gates and not allow anyone else in.


If they stay true to form, there will be 4 games on Monday thru Thursday nights at 6pm, 7pm, 8pm, and 9pm. Entrance is free. Parking can be tricky so get there early.

[roywhite]

Thanks, for the update, Newton_14.

You mention the schedule conflicts in part with the Duke trip to Dubai and China. The trip starts August 14, and we know that Duke can hold 10 practice sessions prior to departure. With a day off or two, that takes care of August, I would think.

I'm even wondering if current roster (2011-12 season) Blue Devils will participate at all in the summer league with the trip coming up? Hopefully, they are allowed/encouraged to play in the pro-am in July.

[Newton_14]

Thanks, for the update, Newton_14.

You mention the schedule conflicts in part with the Duke trip to Dubai and China. The trip starts August 14, and we know that Duke can hold 10 practice sessions prior to departure. With a day off or two, that takes care of August, I would think.

I'm even wondering if current roster (2011-12 season) Blue Devils will participate at all in the summer league with the trip coming up? Hopefully, they are allowed/encouraged to play in the pro-am in July.

Thanks Roy. Our guys are definitely playing in the Summer League during July. Watzone confirmed that a week or so ago in another thread.

[verga]

they may see limited duty at NC Central, i believe i saw Nolan and Kyle just once last July. Hopefully the young guys (freshmen) can play a couple of games, if you go you have to try the cake man, he makes some of the best cakes i've eaten and he's inside the door to the left, reasonable too.

[Greg_Newton]

Hopefully those in the know will be able to pop in from time to time to let us know who's planning on playing on given nights. I'm really excited to be in town for the games this summer, but it's kind of a bummer when you go and our guys are no-shows.

[sdotbarbee]

AustinRivers25 Austin Rivers
Yall seen the Kd and James harden videos on hoopmixtape, killing the summer league! Make me excited for that NC pro-am.... great players.
1 hour ago Favorite Retweet Reply

[Newton_14]

Hopefully those in the know will be able to pop in from time to time to let us know who's planning on playing on given nights. I'm really excited to be in town for the games this summer, but it's kind of a bummer when you go and our guys are no-shows.

Last year it was much better in terms of seeing the Duke guys you expected to see. Everyone but Kyle played in most of the regular season games. I went several times and saw Nolan, Kyrie, Mason, Marshall, Andre, Ryan, Seth, and Miles multiple times. I somehow missed Tyler. Kyle chose not to play. I am pretty sure he did not play a single game out there last year, but did the first 2 years.

Once the schedule and rosters come out I will post them. The best plan is to pick a night when there are Duke guys on teams playing in 2 to 4 of the games on a single night. That way if 1 or 2 Duke guys miss for whatever reason, you still have several others who will likely show.

Based on all of the reports thus far, we can expect to see our guys playing in the early to mid-July games. As August nears, they will at some point start practicing for the China trip and I expect they all will pull out of the Summer League at that point.

[sdotbarbee]

Does anyone know why Duke guys alway play in the pro-am but unc guys usually don't? I know that Barnes played a little last year and so did Bullock but everybody but Kyle played in it for us last year, plus I just saw a tweet from Kendall Marshall wanting to know when it started so he could go watch. Does roy not like his guys playing in it?

[airowe]

The UNC guys took a trip to the Bahamas last year, which interrupted their abilities to play. Not sure what the reason is this year, but they have played in the past.

[jimrowe0]

Rosters are up! It will be interesting to see who actually plays.

http://www.ncproam.com/rosters.html

[jimrowe0]

Nolan tweeted that he will be at the ncproam games tonight

[Newton_14]

Nolan tweeted that he will be at the ncproam games tonight

Kyrie is playing in the 8pm game tonight and is supposed to play again next week.

[Newton_14]

Team McGladrey Hendrick Of Durham 751 South Sheraton Imperial
CJ Leslie Ryan Kelly Julius Hodge Kyrie Irving
Mason Plumlee Seth Curry David West Dexter Strickland
Lorenzo Brown Austin Rivers Jordan Vandenburg Leslie Mc Donald
Alex Johnson Mark Pounds Miles Plumlee Andre Dawkins
Nathan Len Nic Chasten Marshall Plumlee Josh Hairston
Devin Thompson Justin Leemon Quinn Cook Marcus Fisher
Tyler Thornton Stan Okoye Johnny Thomas Branden Smith
Alex Murphy Mike Deloach Tyler Harris Nate Campbell
Trey Sumler Jarette Brown Paul Mayer Wakefield Ellison
Christian Council Joshua Bethel Mike Grinkle
John Hart
Jenieri Cirus

[dcar1985]

Team McGladrey Hendrick Of Durham 751 South Sheraton Imperial
CJ Leslie Ryan Kelly Julius Hodge Kyrie Irving
Mason Plumlee Seth Curry David West Dexter Strickland
Lorenzo Brown Austin Rivers Jordan Vandenburg Leslie Mc Donald
Alex Johnson Mark Pounds Miles Plumlee Andre Dawkins
Nathan Len Nic Chasten Marshall Plumlee Josh Hairston
Devin Thompson Justin Leemon Quinn Cook Marcus Fisher
Tyler Thornton Stan Okoye Johnny Thomas Branden Smith
Alex Murphy Mike Deloach Tyler Harris Nate Campbell
Trey Sumler Jarette Brown Paul Mayer Wakefield Ellison
Christian Council Joshua Bethel Mike Grinkle
John Hart
Jenieri Cirus


It seems like im the only one who is taking the overlooking of Mike G personal, but you left his team off your listing he's playing for CEO Munny...I also thought it was weird that he was the lone Duke player on a team....I really hope this kid comes in and plays with a chip on his shoulder, I think he has a lot of potential and will be a big part of what Duke does in the next few years

[Newton_14]

It seems like im the only one who is taking the overlooking of Mike G personal, but you left his team off your listing he's playing for CEO Munny...I also thought it was weird that he was the lone Duke player on a team....I really hope this kid comes in and plays with a chip on his shoulder, I think he has a lot of potential and will be a big part of what Duke does in the next few years

Dang it! Thanks for pointing that out. Definitely not on purpose! I saw his name and somehow missed it when I cut and pasted the info.

I will make the correction and repost in a minute. Thanks again for letting me know.

[Newton_14]

Team McGladrey Hendrick Of Durham 751 South Sheraton Imperial CEO Munny
CJ Leslie Ryan Kelly Julius Hodge Kyrie Irving Masevai Davis
Mason Plumlee Seth Curry David West Dexter Strickland JT Terrell
Lorenzo Brown Austin Rivers Jordan Vandenburg Leslie Mc Donald Roger Nurse
Alex Johnson Mark Pounds Miles Plumlee Andre Dawkins Jayson Brown
Nathan Len Nic Chasten Marshall Plumlee Josh Hairston Matthew Koscielny
Devin Thompson Justin Leemon Quinn Cook Marcus Fisher Jeffrey Smith
Tyler Thornton Stan Okoye Johnny Thomas Branden Smith Justin Council
Alex Murphy Mike Deloach Tyler Harris Nate Campbell Lamont McQueen
Trey Sumler Jarette Brown Paul Mayer Wakefield Ellison Mike Gbinije
Christian Council Joshua Bethel Mike Grinkle Will Burton
John Hart Anthony Boggan
Jenieri Cirus

[ACCBBallFan]

Team McGladrey Hendrick Of Durham 751 South Sheraton Imperial CEO Munny
CJ Leslie Ryan Kelly Julius Hodge Kyrie Irving Masevai Davis
Mason Plumlee Seth Curry David West Dexter Strickland JT Terrell
Lorenzo Brown Austin Rivers Jordan Vandenburg Leslie Mc Donald Roger Nurse
Alex Johnson Mark Pounds Miles Plumlee Andre Dawkins Jayson Brown
Nathan Len Nic Chasten Marshall Plumlee Josh Hairston Matthew Koscielny
Devin Thompson Justin Leemon Quinn Cook Marcus Fisher Jeffrey Smith
Tyler Thornton Stan Okoye Johnny Thomas Branden Smith Justin Council
Alex Murphy Mike Deloach Tyler Harris Nate Campbell Lamont McQueen
Trey Sumler Jarette Brown Paul Mayer Wakefield Ellison Mike Gbinije
Christian Council Joshua Bethel Mike Grinkle Will Burton
John Hart Anthony Boggan
Jenieri Cirus

Nolan played for Next Level Custom and the walk on David Mayer is on Team Jamieson roster. So some representation on every team except Triangle G and 20.20.

[Kedsy]

Who went last night? How'd Mike G do in his game?

[magjayran]

^^^What he said. I'm dying to hear a report on the actual games. I'm hoping to get to some games next week if possible.

[airowe]

Mike didn't play last night I don't believe. Nolan, Mason, and Miles all did though.

[dcar1985]

Im pretty sure I seen somewhere that Mike G was headed home this week, same w/ Dre....hopefully people get to see them in action next week

[kong123]

Think this team will be any good?

Triangle Gastroenterology

Jerry Stackhouse (Coach)
John Wall
John Henson
Harrison Barnes
P.J. Hairston
Mike Bell
Luk Davis
Ervon Prichett
Trent Bivens
Jonathan Parker

[Faison1]

Think this team will be any good?

Triangle Gastroenterology

Jerry Stackhouse (Coach)
John Wall
John Henson
Harrison Barnes
P.J. Hairston
Mike Bell
Luk Davis
Ervon Prichett
Trent Bivens
Jonathan Parker

Yeah, if you like watching a pack of pansies....





Just kidding, Kong!!! Hope summer is treating you well.

[Arrghbc1201]

I didnt see a thread about the 2011 NC Pro-Am League. I watched a few games last year and thats when I first realized Kyrie was the real deal. I plan on heading up there Thursday night to catch a few games. Ill post a link to the roster page. Does anyone know if all these players are expected to show up? Of course I want to see the heavy hitters ie., Kyrie, Nolan, AR (subzero), MP 1-3, John Wall, and the other unmentionables. Did anyone attend last week?

http://www.ncproam.com/rosters.html

[Greg_Newton]

There's already a thread on this, it just slipped to the second page: http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?25668-2011-S.J.G-Greater-NC-Pro-Am-NC-Central-Discussion-Thread

Tomorrow night should be a great night on paper, especially the 8PM game. It would be nice to know who's going to be there, though.

[Newton_14]

Below are the teams and players for tomorrow night. Disclaimer: Please note this does not mean each of the Duke guys will play in the games. They are on the roster and it is a good chance most of them will play, but no guarantee's.


Thursday, July 7 Duke Players & Notables
8 pm Team Hendrick vs Sheraton Imp Ryan/Seth/Austin vs Kyrie/Andre/Josh
9 pm 751 South vs. 20/20 Miles/Marshall/Quin vs James McAdoo/Justin Watts/David Noel

[watzone]

Below are the teams and players for tomorrow night. Disclaimer: Please note this does not mean each of the Duke guys will play in the games. They are on the roster and it is a good chance most of them will play, but no guarantee's.


Thursday, July 7 Duke Players & Notables
8 pm Team Hendrick vs Sheraton Imp Ryan/Seth/Austin vs Kyrie/Andre/Josh
9 pm 751 South vs. 20/20 Miles/Marshall/Quin vs James McAdoo/Justin Watts/David Noel


In the past the first day after the 4th is hit or miss. Sometimes guys don't show until the following week. You can never tell. I'll be at the Nike Peach jam next week so I will miss the action. Catch the guys soon though for China Dubai practices are on the way and I am not sure how much they will allow them to play once that happens.

[Newton_14]

In the past the first day after the 4th is hit or miss. Sometimes guys don't show until the following week. You can never tell. I'll be at the Nike Peach jam next week so I will miss the action. Catch the guys soon though for China Dubai practices are on the way and I am not sure how much they will allow them to play once that happens.

Thanks. I went last year during the 3rd and 4th weeks in July, and had good success. The Duke attendance was 100% on the nights I went other than Kyle. K said they start practice next week but the 10 practices will be stretched over the course of time between the start, and Aug 14th or so when they leave for China.

Do you think he will allow the guys to play on days when they have practiced? Any idea what time of the day K will hold the practices?

[ThePublisher]

Anyone on Twitter hear any updates from the Players about tomorrow night? I'm planning on driving to the Pro-Am and would appreciate any info about who will be there. I hate to drive 2.5 hours and only see unc guys.

[ThePublisher]

Since nobody has replied I ventured onto twitter. Looks like Rivers, Curry, Kelly are all playing tonight according to Rivers' Tweet. Cook says he is running PG tonight as well, so that's at least four Duke guys that should be there.

[jimrowe0]

Anyone on Twitter hear any updates from the Players about tomorrow night? I'm planning on driving to the Pro-Am and would appreciate any info about who will be there. I hate to drive 2.5 hours and only see unc guys.

Looks like a good night to go. Austin, Seth, Ryan, Kyrie, Tyler have said on twitter that they will all be there tonight! Austin, Seth, and Ryan are playing tonight, but I'm not sure about Kyrie or Tyler.

[ThePublisher]

According to the rosters and schedule Kyrie should be playing against team Rivers/Curry/Kelly.
Rivers V Irving will be something to witness. It'll be interesting to see who gets the best of that match-up with Rivers having the size advantage and Irving having the speed advantage. I hope Rivers looks at it as a chance to prove himself and steps up. He always plays with a chip on his shoulder and since he is looked at as Irving's replacement of sorts (top level 1-done player) this should be very interesting.

[Greg_Newton]

According to the rosters and schedule Kyrie should be playing against team Rivers/Curry/Kelly.
Rivers V Irving will be something to witness. It'll be interesting to see who gets the best of that match-up with Rivers having the size advantage and Irving having the speed advantage. I hope Rivers looks at it as a chance to prove himself and steps up. He always plays with a chip on his shoulder and since he is looked at as Irving's replacement of sorts (top level 1-done player) this should be very interesting.

From Kyrie's tweets, it looks like he'll be watching and not playing tonight.

[altmike]

I was looking forward to see Nolan matching up with Wall tonight but it looks like Wall will be staying in Philly with the Reebok camp.

[airowe]

Since nobody has replied I ventured onto twitter. Looks like Rivers, Curry, Kelly are all playing tonight according to Rivers' Tweet. Cook says he is running PG tonight as well, so that's at least four Duke guys that should be there.

Julius Hodge said the other day on the David Glenn Show that "Quinn Cook needs to know that I'll be playing point." :D

[Lord Ash]

Julius Hodge said the other day on the David Glenn Show that "Quinn Cook needs to know that I'll be playing point. Otherwise I'll punch him in the nuts." :D

You didn't include the whole quote. I fixed it for you.

[Acymetric]

You didn't include the whole quote. I fixed it for you.

You do remember that he was the one that got punched in the nuts, right? Chris Paul was the one nut-puncher in that whole deal.

[DukeBlueNikeShox]

Confused: If the NCAA says that high school boys can't play in the league, why are high school girls able to play? There are high school girls who just finished their freshman year that on playing on teams with players from Duke, NC State, Wake, dUNCe, Central, Shaw, etc... :confused::confused::confused:

[Newton_14]

Confused: If the NCAA says that high school boys can't play in the league, why are high school girls able to play? There are high school girls who just finished their freshman year that on playing on teams with players from Duke, NC State, Wake, dUNCe, Central, Shaw, etc... :confused::confused::confused:

That is a double standard for sure. The reason the NCAA ruled HS Boys inelgible is due to Central now being a Division I Program. Therefore, in the NCAA's eye's, it is an unfair recruiting advantage for Central if HS Boys play in the league. Whatever!

As for the girls, I assume? Central's Ladies Team is Division I as well, but somehow the rule is different. It makes no sense, but what about the NCAA does make sense?

[Greg_Newton]

Wow. A word to the wise: if you plan on going, get there at the beginning of the night.

No one got in after 7:15PM tonight, maybe earlier. Apparently they were filled to over capacity, and the fire marshall wouldn't let them let new people in even when people left. I waited in line with hundreds of people outside for 45 minutes or so until I finally gave up around 8:30.

Which really sucks, because I would have gotten to see Austin Rivers, Nolan Smith, Seth Curry, Andre Dawkins, Michael Gbinije, Alex Murphy, Marshall Plumlee, Josh Hairston, Quinn Cook, Rasheed Wallace, Leslie McDonald, and Dexter Strickland in the 8PM-9PM games. Sounds like it was incredible competition/atmosphere, too.

As Seth Curry just tweeted,
If u wasn't at the NC Pro-am tonight u need to rethink ur life plan.. Crazy game and atmosphere in tobacco road!!

:mad:

[dcar1985]

I've heard good things about tonight....Austin dunked on Rasheed Wallace multiple times, Head Mike G looked good also....I really need to get out there next year, NC Pro Am seems like the place to be

[Newton_14]

Wow. A word to the wise: if you plan on going, get there at the beginning of the night.

No one got in after 7:15PM tonight, maybe earlier. Apparently they were filled to over capacity, and the fire marshall wouldn't let them let new people in even when people left. I waited in line with hundreds of people outside for 45 minutes or so until I finally gave up around 8:30.

Which really sucks, because I would have gotten to see Austin Rivers, Nolan Smith, Seth Curry, Andre Dawkins, Michael Gbinije, Alex Murphy, Marshall Plumlee, Josh Hairston, Quinn Cook, Rasheed Wallace, Leslie McDonald, and Dexter Strickland in the 8PM-9PM games. Sounds like it was incredible competition/atmosphere, too.

As Seth Curry just tweeted,

:mad:

That happened one time last year as well. I sat in a foldup chair on the floor along the baseline and people were sitting in the aisles. A couple thousand never got in that night. Most nights it is not like that but always a possibility.

I have been following the tweets tonight and sounds like it was an awesome game. One team featured 4 or 5 Duke guys led by Nolan, Seth, Austin, and Ryan, and the other team had Josh, Andre, Silent G, Leslie McDonald, Strickland and Rasheed. The latter team one.

According to tweets, the scoring was:
Nolan- 29
McDonald- 28
Strickland- 24
Seth- 17
Andre- 16
Austin- 19
Austin apparently brought the house down with a baseline 180 reverse jam burger.

[Greg_Newton]

That happened one time last year as well. I sat in a foldup chair on the floor along the baseline and people were sitting in the aisles. A couple thousand never got in that night. Most nights it is not like that but always a possibility.

I have been following the tweets tonight and sounds like it was an awesome game.

Yeah, I kind of have a feeling it's going to be a whole new animal this summer, though, especially if the Duke/UNC guys continue to play. With the lockout, the organizers are insisting that more NBA players are going to start popping in more often, and I wouldn't be surprised given that tons of NBA players are already playing in summer leagues. I mean, with names like Austin Rivers, Harrison Barnes, Kyrie Irving, John Wall, Jerry Stackhouse, Rasheed Wallace, etc, in the building, word of mouth spreads pretty quickly.

It really sounded like a special kind of environment if you were in the building tonight. It was pretty cool even just watching the big name players flow in as I was in line... wish I'd made it in.

[Kedsy]

wish I'd made it in.

Did anyone make it in? I'd love to hear a first hand account of our guys' performance.

[ThePublisher]

Awesome night! So glad I went. Here is the rundown as much as my memory will let me give after 4 hours of basketball and a 1.5 hour drive home close to midnight.

Before I get to the guys, there was one Duke player in the Women's game who was stellar. I have no idea what her name is but she was the tallest on the court and dominating the boards, she would also bring the ball up the court. Watch out for whoever that was. If anyone knows her name, please share.

Irving and Thornton made an appearance but did not play. Irving was very busy signing things and taking pictures. Wish he had played as he would have been pitted against Curry/Rivers/Nolan. Shame....

Game 1: This was mostly UNC guys. After was I saw tonight UNC is no doubt preseason number 1 and is going to be TOUGH for anyone to beat. They are loaded with super talented guys and have tons of solid depth. It hurts to say it, but watch out.
John Henson has gained considerable bulk. He is still a stick, but relative to last year this is not good for anyone else.
Barnes looks to have also gotten bigger and was quite good. He's going to be an issue all around.
TJ, I mean PJ Hairston looked bigger than he was at this event last year and hit a few deep 3's. Doesn't seem to be comfortable doing much else though.
Jerry Stackhouse played, which was pretty entertaining. He has to be 40 now right? One no name guy on the other team completely blew by him and dunked. The Duke fans applauded.

Game 2: This was the game of the night. Simply amazing. Especially the first 10 minutes when both sides were going all out. Both teams came out of the gate and just killed it.
This game put Rivers, Curry, Nolan Smith and Kelly against Hairston, Dawkins, Gbinije, Leslie McDonald, Dexter Strickland and Rasheed Wallace. Epic....

Rivers: He looked like he was just messing around. It made me think of a super smart kid in a class where the practice 'no child left behind'. He was just messing around, like he didn't have to take the class to ace the exam. His shot is so quick its not funny. He just flicks it up and 'swoosh', just about every time. He has handles that just break down the defender and make them look silly. I really hope his confidence spreads throughout the team as it surged through the gym tonight. After hitting a few 3s he ran back and gave the crowd a bit of a show, almost reminicent of JJ. He is also deceptively quick and can explode to the rim. The highlight of the night was when he blew past Rasheed Wallace and did a 180 one handed jam. The crowd went crazy. That itself was worth my 3 hours of driving. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doKdfkMtMHo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doKdfkMtMHo) Yeah.... that just happened. Rasheed was standing there in the first dunk of this video. The downside I saw from Rivers was that he seemed lackadaisical bringing the ball up sometimes and didn't show much effort on D. I hope this is just b/c it was a summer league game.

Curry: He normally brought the ball up while he was playing. He seemed very comfortable doing so and normally passed off to Rivers, something we may see a lot of in the coming months. Curry's shot looks even better than last year. He was jacking up 3's every time he had a look and didn't miss much. We are going to be an insanely good 3 point shooting team with these guys. Can't guard them all... I didn't see Curry attack much which I would like to see more of. His handle did look improved over last year and his shot seems a little more tidy, if that makes sense. He has an incredible ability to roll off a screen and stop and pop. I imagine we see even more of that this year with the Motion Off we're supposedly installing. I predict Curry to have some games where he is just unstoppable when in a shooting grove. It's just so smooth.

Nolan: Wow. The Blazers have themselves a guy who just keeps improving. He had a few cross overs that almost made me break my ankles while sitting in the stand. He was a rolling highlight. It got to the point where my girlfriend mentioned that no one was clapping after he made a nice dunk, my response... "he just makes it look that easy." He was in total attack mode and had a few moves on Dawkins and Stickland that I'm sure they'll have nightmares about. Is there anyway he can get a 5th year with the NBA lockout? Someone PLEASE look into this.

Kelly: After last year's pro-am I was very impressed with Kelly and looking forward to him making big improvements. This year... ummmm. It almost looks like he has lost weight. His shot was flat and he had zero luck guarding Rasheed Wallace, which is obviously quite a mismatch. I'm hoping this was an aberration as I was really thinking he would make another huge leap forward. He did pull a nice move on a smaller defender at one point showing that perhaps his handle is a little improved, for what that's worth...

As for the other team....
Josh Hairston: I don't see him playing much this year. Just being Honest. He grabbed a couple of nice boards, but overall just looked out of place. It's like he doesn't have control of his body or something. I guess we're looking at another year of helping out on the practice team and sparing play. Here's to hoping he doesn't transfer, for some reason that always pops in my head when thinking about him.

Dawkins: He has definitely improved. I think he has the confidence back that he lost his fresh year after his sisters accident. His shot is quicker than before and his release has moved forward a little. He was nailing shots, back and forth against Curry. Curry from 3, Dawkins from 3, Curry.... you get it. Dawkins looks like he will by far be our strongest guard. Dude is big. Very noticeably much bigger than last year. Whatever his workout regime was over the summer is what I need, that and not eating a big mac on the way back from sitting and watching basketball, haha. Dawkins has let his hair grow so he has a new look all around.

Gbinije: He came out and I was like 'thats Silent G!'. Then he made some very nice 3s and the announcer called him Mike another name. After the second half he got it right and I felt much better. I know my Duke guys and the announcer made me look bad. Anyway... This guy is going to impress and will be seeing minutes. He is smooth and in the right place at the right time. His shot is very slick. He needs to add bulk but he is going to be a special player at Duke. He just has 'it'.

Leslie McDonald and Dexter Strickland both looked good. They look like they have taken a step forward and will be solid in the unc rotation next year. Not good.... not good at all. Strickland is killer in transaction and McDonald looked comfortable bringing the ball up.

Rasheed Wallace: It looks like he is nearing the end of his career. He rebounded well, but Kelly was the only other big out there. I could rebound well against middle schoolers, but with one guy who was slightly shorter than me and half my weight. He missed just about every shot he took and was completely embarrassed by Rivers. That was so good, you should go back and watch the video again. I found it ridiculous that he was hassling the refs in a summer league game playing against a bunch of kids. In one instance Rasheed got the ref to change his call, I guess he was afraid Rasheed would go off and garner a technical. Oh well...

Game 3: I didn't stay for this whole game as only Marshall Plumlee showed up (Cook and MP1 were supposed to play). Marshall can jump like crazy. During the warm up he was constantly putting his head up to the rim while dunking. He obviously has to bulk up and learn to shoot, but he has crazy jumps. He played good D and rebounded well, likely his role at Duke. I don't see him playing much this year but he could ad some valuable minutes especially if Miles hasn't learned to lay off the fouls.


Well if anyone actually reads all of that I hope you enjoyed the info. I had a great time and am happy to share what I observed. I will be returning next Wednesday as this is the only was I can hold myself over until the season starts. As great as the ACC Championship game was, I can only watch it so many times.

[Greg_Newton]

Annnd the first A.R. footage of the night is in...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doKdfkMtMHo&feature=player_detailpage#t=0s

Yowza! :eek: http://img214.imagevenue.com/aAfkjfp01fo1i-20668/loc1012/103096423_Picture9_122_1012lo.png

[akhan786]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1efPt-anOFI

Yeah...I don't think he dunked on Sheed but they were still pretty impressive.

OH and I loved the part when Dawkins hit a three then AR hit one back in his face :cool:

[slower]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1efPt-anOFI

Yeah...I don't think he dunked on Sheed but they were still pretty impressive.


On the first dunk, he effortlessly went around the large Sheed-shaped immobile object and dunked. On the second dunk, the large Sheed-shaped immobile object moved out of the way to avoid being posterized or, yeah, he ABSOLUTELY would have dunked on Sheed.

[akhan786]

I guess it's just that I have a different view as to what qualifies as "dunking on". In my opinion it's if the defender contests but I can also see it your way as well.

[Gargoyle]

ThePublisher asked:

"Before I get to the guys, there was one Duke player in the Women's game who was stellar. I have no idea what her name is but she was the tallest on the court and dominating the boards, she would also bring the ball up the court. Watch out for whoever that was. If anyone knows her name, please share."

I was not there, but this sounds like Amber Henson, John Henson's sister.

[stillcrazie]

ThePublisher asked:

"Before I get to the guys, there was one Duke player in the Women's game who was stellar. I have no idea what her name is but she was the tallest on the court and dominating the boards, she would also bring the ball up the court. Watch out for whoever that was. If anyone knows her name, please share."

I was not there, but this sounds like Amber Henson, John Henson's sister.

I was not there either, but it could also be Elizabeth Williams.

[Gargoyle]

I was not there either, but it could also be Elizabeth Williams.

I do not believe Elizabeth Williams is in Durham. I think she is with the US U19 national team.

[ThePublisher]

Yeah...I don't think he dunked on Sheed but they were still pretty impressive.

OH and I loved the part when Dawkins hit a three then AR hit one back in his face :cool:

On the first dunk he blew by Rasheed and slammed it, on the second one Wallace stepped aside. Both were excellent. I think that was Gbinije in the mix tape trading 3's with Rivers and not Dawkins.

[ThePublisher]

I was not there, but this sounds like Amber Henson, John Henson's sister.

This was a white girl, so I'm assuming that rules out Amber. She had her long brown hair pulled back.

After looking at pictures on Duke's website I think this was Haley Peters. It looked a little more like Allison Vernerey, but according to the rosters she wasn't there.

[stillcrazie]

This was a white girl, so I'm assuming that rules out Amber. She had her long brown hair pulled back.

After looking at pictures on Duke's website I think this was Haley Peters. It looked a little more like Allison Vernerey, but according to the rosters she wasn't there.

Great news if that was Haley Peters.

[Kedsy]

Awesome night! So glad I went. Here is the rundown as much as my memory will let me give after 4 hours of basketball and a 1.5 hour drive home close to midnight.

Thanks for the rundown.

[phaedrus]

I also made it out, but didn't make it in, along with at least a couple hundred others. While in line, I heard complaints about the small venue, that they should play in Cameron or the Dean Dome. But as a Durham resident, I was excited to see a lot of Durham residents who probably rarely set foot in either of those two buildings get a chance to watch some of our best players suit up.

[akhan786]

On the first dunk he blew by Rasheed and slammed it, on the second one Wallace stepped aside. Both were excellent. I think that was Gbinije in the mix tape trading 3's with Rivers and not Dawkins.

Yeah you're right I didn't look at the faces when Rivers brought the ball up court. Haha hopefully some highlights of Gbinije will be out soon!!!!!!!!

[Chris Randolph]

Impressive scoring, shot making, athleticism by all these guys really.... But....

The "defense" in these games is a joke, I don't put much stock into them except for the 3 abilities I stated above (2 of which are made much tougher with a good defender on you)

Still it's a fun highlight video to watch!

[Starter]

I know, I know, you can't make much out of a Youtube video.

But man, Rivers looks nasty. Here's hoping he has a bit of a chip on his shoulder with everyone saying he's overrated all summer.

[ThePublisher]

I know, I know, you can't make much out of a Youtube video.

But man, Rivers looks nasty. Here's hoping he has a bit of a chip on his shoulder with everyone saying he's overrated all summer.

I was skeptical about him coming in and being a huge impact player. Skeptical about the offense being centered around him. No more. He is a true top talent. He makes everything look so effortless and he can just do whatever he wants on the court. We're also talking about someone with a very very very high basketball IQ. He'll be great.

[akhan786]

For anyone who was there, do you know what AR's FG% last night was or at least an estimate?

Thanks :D

[CDu]

On the first dunk he blew by Rasheed and slammed it, on the second one Wallace stepped aside. Both were excellent. I think that was Gbinije in the mix tape trading 3's with Rivers and not Dawkins.

Yeah, that looked like Gbinije in the video and not Dawkins.

Wallace's involvement in either Rivers dunk was minimal. Defense does not appear to be at all common in these games, and Wallace's effort on those plays was consistent with this theme (a half-hearted swipe from behind after failing to rotate over on the baseline drive; a bailout after failing to rotate over on the drive from the wing). I'm not singling out Wallace for lazy defense - that's just the level of effort on display. No reason to hurt yourself in a glorified pickup league with the NBA labor dispute ongoing.

[CDu]

For anyone who was there, do you know what AR's FG% last night was or at least an estimate?

Thanks :D

Considering the lack of defense being played, I'm guessing it was quite high. Unless he missed a bunch of his uncontested/lightly-contested jumpshots.

People need to remember that the lack of defense on display makes the offense look better (especially for those guys who are skilled offensive players). I'm not saying we shouldn't be pleased with Rivers' performance - just that you have to temper what you see in these things, because the defensive intensity (and defensive teamwork) are MUCH better when the NCAA season starts.

[MChambers]

Yeah, that looked like Gbinije in the video and not Dawkins.

Wallace's involvement in either Rivers dunk was minimal. Defense does not appear to be at all common in these games, and Wallace's effort on those plays was consistent with this theme (a half-hearted swipe from behind after failing to rotate over on the baseline drive; a bailout after failing to rotate over on the drive from the wing). I'm not singling out Wallace for lazy defense - that's just the level of effort on display. No reason to hurt yourself in a glorified pickup league with the NBA labor dispute ongoing.

I'm pretty certain that this was Wallace's level of effort during his last several years in the NBA, so would not attribute this to the summer league.

[Indoor66]

Yeah, that looked like Gbinije in the video and not Dawkins.

Wallace's involvement in either Rivers dunk was minimal. Defense does not appear to be at all common in these games, and Wallace's effort on those plays was consistent with this theme (a half-hearted swipe from behind after failing to rotate over on the baseline drive; a bailout after failing to rotate over on the drive from the wing). I'm not singling out Wallace for lazy defense - that's just the level of effort on display. No reason to hurt yourself in a glorified pickup league with the NBA labor dispute ongoing.

His defense was consistent with his career!

[Billy Dat]

His defense was consistent with his career!

I hate being forced to defend a Heel, but at least MChambers qualified his statement by saying Wallace didn't try the last few years of his career. The guy wound up top 100 all time in points and rebounds, played in 4 All Star games and won a ring. He also set a record in 2000-1 with 41 technicals and 7 ejections - should that not be sufficient proof that he cared about winning above all else? :p

[Indoor66]

I hate being forced to defend a Heel, but at least MChambers qualified his statement by saying Wallace didn't try the last few years of his career. The guy wound up top 100 all time in points and rebounds, played in 4 All Star games and won a ring. He also set a record in 2000-1 with 41 technicals and 7 ejections - should that not be sufficient proof that he cared about winning above all else? :p

I was referring to his defensive intensity.

[ThePublisher]

Defense is definitely lacking in the summer league. But there were some people playing all out. Nolan Smith doesn't know how to play any other way. And you better believe when he was going one on one with Dawkins, Andre was playing defense, or at least trying to.

Overall there is a lack of defense, but I think that effects open drives more than shooting. People seemed to be in their face to contest shots, but I don't think they were hustling as much to keep someone from driving around them.

[CDu]

I'm pretty certain that this was Wallace's level of effort during his last several years in the NBA, so would not attribute this to the summer league.

And I am pretty sure you are wrong about this. Wallace played hard on both ends in the NBA. His game deteriorated, but he played D. I hate defending a Heel, but this slight seems out of line.

I definitely think these guys are taking the league lightly defensively.

[Starter]

And I am pretty sure you are wrong about this. Wallace played hard on both ends in the NBA. His game deteriorated, but he played D. I hate defending a Heel, but this slight seems out of line.


Absolutely true. Rasheed was one of the rare guys to give Duncan in his prime a tough time.




People need to remember that the lack of defense on display makes the offense look better (especially for those guys who are skilled offensive players). I'm not saying we shouldn't be pleased with Rivers' performance - just that you have to temper what you see in these things, because the defensive intensity (and defensive teamwork) are MUCH better when the NCAA season starts.

I get your point, but I think I'm going to stay pretty enthusiastic about what I see here. Obviously, Austin Rivers won't have as easy a path to the rim in ACC play. What I'm pumped about is having someone who can do the things that he clearly can do, looking like a young Vince Carter out there. Who has Duke had in the past 20 years or so that can fly like Rivers? Grant Hill, Maggette, Gerald Henderson, Dahntay Jones... Olek Czyz, I guess... that's about it, though correct me if I'm wrong. And he's got that buttery jump shot too? I can't wait to watch him in a Duke uniform. Definitely copping that jersey, too.

[Greg_Newton]

Some more comprehensive highlights of our guys: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_NN-3LNkMs

Big dunk by Gbinije at 1:30, and pullup 3 at 2:30.

And check out Sheed "topping" AR's dunk at the end... :D

[billyj]

We will miss Nolan Smith, a lot.

[jimsumner]

Who has Duke had in the past 20 years or so that can fly like Rivers? Grant Hill, Maggette, Gerald Henderson, Dahntay Jones... Olek Czyz, I guess... that's about it, though correct me if I'm wrong. And he's got that buttery jump shot too? I can't wait to watch him in a Duke uniform. Definitely copping that jersey, too.

Carmen Wallace could jump out of the gym.

Which goes to show that you need more than hops.

Add Robert Brickey and Thomas Hill to the list of high-flyers.

[MChambers]

And I am pretty sure you are wrong about this. Wallace played hard on both ends in the NBA. His game deteriorated, but he played D. I hate defending a Heel, but this slight seems out of line.

I definitely think these guys are taking the league lightly defensively.
CDu, you watch more NBA in a year than I will in the next decade, so I should defer to you, but I feel obliged to link a Bill Simmons column from 2010:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/100407&sportCat=nba

In any event, one should not have to defend trashing Rasheed Wallace on a Duke site!

[Starter]

Carmen Wallace could jump out of the gym.

Which goes to show that you need more than hops.

Add Robert Brickey and Thomas Hill to the list of high-flyers.

Thanks for the wizened perspective, Jim. I started at Duke in 1997, started following closely the year prior to that, so I missed seeing those guys in person.

I'm pretty confident Rivers brings more than just sheer athleticism to the table. But man, is he going to be fun to watch -- considering he clearly has mad crazy vertical.

[Greg_Newton]

Thanks for the wizened perspective, Jim. I started at Duke in 1997, started following closely the year prior to that, so I missed seeing those guys in person.

I'm pretty confident Rivers brings more than just sheer athleticism to the table. But man, is he going to be fun to watch -- considering he clearly has mad crazy vertical.

Yeah, perhaps the better question is who have we had with his combination of vertical, first step, handle, and shot...

[roywhite]

Yeah, perhaps the better question is who have we had with his combination of vertical, first step, handle, and shot...

Few players, if any.

Maybe going way back, Bob Verga, who had quickness, range, and ball handling ability. He could rise up quickly and get away a high-arcing shot that was very accurate.

In more modern times, Jason Williams, though perhaps not Austin's equal as a long-range shooter.

[Starter]

Few players, if any.

Maybe going way back, Bob Verga, who had quickness, range, and ball handling ability. He could rise up quickly and get away a high-arcing shot that was very accurate.

In more modern times, Jason Williams, though perhaps not Austin's equal as a long-range shooter.

You know, I thought about Jason, very good call to bring that up. I don't think he quite had Austin's ups, but he was explosive and could absolutely get above the rim. Jason's shot wasn't technically perfect, but he was definitely a threat, and when on a roll, look out.

[Faison1]

Few players, if any.

Maybe going way back, Bob Verga, who had quickness, range, and ball handling ability. He could rise up quickly and get away a high-arcing shot that was very accurate.

In more modern times, Jason Williams, though perhaps not Austin's equal as a long-range shooter.

Not sure about the vertical part, but I remember William Avery being pretty good.

As to Jim Sumner's post, when I think of vertical achievers, I don't think of Thomas Hill for some reason. Maybe I'm not remembering clearly.

[slower]

Carmen Wallace could jump out of the gym.

Which goes to show that you need more than hops.

Add Robert Brickey and Thomas Hill to the list of high-flyers.

From the videos I've seen, Rivers doesn't seem to have an overly spectacular vertical, certainly nowhere near Gerald or Brickey. Correct me if I'm wrong (are there any actual recorded measurements available?), of course. Don't get me wrong - the kid can get to the rim. But don't talk about him like he's Dominique Wilkins (NOT referring to YOUR comments, Jim).

[slower]

From the videos I've seen, Rivers doesn't seem to have an overly spectacular vertical, certainly nowhere near Gerald or Brickey. Correct me if I'm wrong (are there any actual recorded measurements available?), of course. Don't get me wrong - the kid can get to the rim. But don't talk about him like he's Dominique Wilkins (NOT referring to YOUR comments, Jim).

Well, okay, I watched the Pro-Am stuff again, in slo-mo. Better hops than I thought, although still nothing I'd classify as freakish. Looking forward to his first meeting with John Henson at the rim.

[Starter]

I don't recall anyone comparing Austin Rivers to Dominique -- though he does throw down a nice windmill. Since someone brought it up, I'd hope Austin would be somewhat more well-rounded than Nique was, but if he's as potent an offensive player, I don't think any of us would complain that vigorously.

Personally, I was thinking more in comparison to the athletes we've had in recent years. IIRC, G had around a 40-inch vertical, might have been a little higher. (At Maryland after Neal laid out Nolan Smith, it was probably about 50.) Perhaps I got a bit excited watching that video -- I'm wont to do that -- but I saw Austin's vertical having improved over what I had seen before, even when he was tearing it up in dunk contests wearing Doc's jersey. Presumably, Austin is still growing into the athlete he's going to be. I've never seen a measured vertical leap, but I'd suggest from watching the video, he might be around 37-38? Not too shabby. He's also 6-foot-4 with a 6-foot-8 wingspan. Looks like a beast to me.

Kind of fuzzy, it's a video capture, but I mean...

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6144/5923242098_3156d73009.jpg

[PhillyDuke]

I don't recall anyone comparing Austin Rivers to Dominique -- though he does throw down a nice windmill. Since someone brought it up, I'd hope Austin would be somewhat more well-rounded than Nique was, but if he's as potent an offensive player, I don't think any of us would complain that vigorously.

Personally, I was thinking more in comparison to the athletes we've had in recent years. IIRC, G had around a 40-inch vertical, might have been a little higher. (At Maryland after Neal laid out Nolan Smith, it was probably about 50.) Perhaps I got a bit excited watching that video -- I'm wont to do that -- but I saw Austin's vertical having improved over what I had seen before, even when he was tearing it up in dunk contests wearing Doc's jersey. Presumably, Austin is still growing into the athlete he's going to be. I've never seen a measured vertical leap, but I'd suggest from watching the video, he might be around 37-38? Not too shabby. He's also 6-foot-4 with a 6-foot-8 wingspan. Looks like a beast to me.

Kind of fuzzy, it's a video capture, but I mean...

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6144/5923242098_3156d73009.jpg


I like how he has his butt in Rasheed Wallace's mug while he's dunkin' it on 'em--take that...LOL!!!! Anytime somebody from dork carolina gets humiliated is good!!!

[meloveduke]

I like how he has his butt in Rasheed Wallace's mug while he's dunkin' it on 'em--take that...LOL!!!! Anytime somebody from dork carolina gets humiliated is good!!!

I think I saw a tweet that said at this exact second in time he was also passing gass....... Sorry no link as it has seemed to vanish......:D:D

[jipops]

From the extended video, it appears Josh has put on a significant amount of bulk. I have no idea how much his skills have improved but just from the looks of him it doesn't appear he will be overwhelmed physically.

[CDu]

From the videos I've seen, Rivers doesn't seem to have an overly spectacular vertical, certainly nowhere near Gerald or Brickey. Correct me if I'm wrong (are there any actual recorded measurements available?), of course. Don't get me wrong - the kid can get to the rim. But don't talk about him like he's Dominique Wilkins (NOT referring to YOUR comments, Jim).

I agree. That's not to say Rivers isn't a good leaper. But he's not in Henderson/Maggette territory. I'm not even sure I'd put him in Nelson territory. He does appear to have a better combination of quickness/leaping ability and actual basketball skills than the high school versions of Henderson/Maggette/Nelson. More like a slightly less quick, perhaps less explosive, but taller version of Jason Williams (I guess, in other words, a very different player altogether from Williams...).

I don't take away a whole lot from these videos because (as I've said before) I think the level of defense is so inferior to collegiate play that you just don't know how he'll translate. But he does seem really talented and pretty darn athletic too.

[dukeballboy88]

I get more excited about Rivers shredding cotton vs dunking anyday. I also love how confident he is. He makes me think every shot he takes is going in.

[duke1983]

Pics from Duke's 1st practice...looks like Seth bulked up quite a bit too...

http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?&ATCLID=205180269&DB_OEM_ID=4200

[phaedrus]

Pics from Duke's 1st practice...looks like Seth bulked up quite a bit too...

http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?&ATCLID=205180269&DB_OEM_ID=4200

Yeah it does. Weird to see them out there without #2 and #12.

[nmduke2001]

I agree. That's not to say Rivers isn't a good leaper. But he's not in Henderson/Maggette territory. I'm not even sure I'd put him in Nelson territory. He does appear to have a better combination of quickness/leaping ability and actual basketball skills than the high school versions of Henderson/Maggette/Nelson. More like a slightly less quick, perhaps less explosive, but taller version of Jason Williams (I guess, in other words, a very different player altogether from Williams...).

Maybe it's just his shooting stroke, but AR sort of reminds me of a young Reggie Miller, with a better cross-over. People forget that Reggie would attack the hoop quite a bit in his younger days.

[duke1983]

Yeah it does. Weird to see them out there without #2 and #12.

Yeah, you see Alex Murphy in the background in one of the pics and you almost do a double take because it looks like Singler.

[Billy Dat]

I feel like Austin Rivers is going to be the player who makes me finally embrace all of the Duke hatred flying at our program only to swallow it, digest it, and shoot it back out twice as strong.

-He is clearly an elite talent
-He is clearly cocky
-He is clearly a gunner
-He seems to want to be "The Man" for this team

As a result, everyone outside the Duke sphere is already lining up to shoot him down. After a few years of the Duke hatred tsunami abating - after all, no one really hated Scheyer, Singler, Smith, etc. - I think Rivers is set to take up the Laettner/Wojo/JJ/Paulus mantle of widely despised Duke players. I think I am ready for that, because I have a gut feeling that the kid can take it. Who knows if that is true - it will be really exciting if it is.

[MCFinARL]

Yeah it does. Weird to see them out there without #2 and #12.

Any chance the white-blue lineups here provide any clues to the coaching staff's starting point in thinking about probable starters? I saw Mason-Seth-Austin-Quinn-Ryan-Alex in white and Miles-Tyler-Andre-Mike-Josh-Marshall in blue. Or is it too early to be thinking that way at all?

[mcdukie]

I can tell you that MD fans hated Scheyer with a passion. Having said that, I agree that the hate for Rivers will be next level!!

[Greg_Newton]

I feel like Austin Rivers is going to be the player who makes me finally embrace all of the Duke hatred flying at our program only to swallow it, digest it, and shoot it back out twice as strong.

-He is clearly an elite talent
-He is clearly cocky
-He is clearly a gunner
-He seems to want to be "The Man" for this team

As a result, everyone outside the Duke sphere is already lining up to shoot him down. After a few years of the Duke hatred tsunami abating - after all, no one really hated Scheyer, Singler, Smith, etc. - I think Rivers is set to take up the Laettner/Wojo/JJ/Paulus mantle of widely despised Duke players. I think I am ready for that, because I have a gut feeling that the kid can take it. Who knows if that is true - it will be really exciting if it is.

I don't think "The Hate" will be quite the same as for those players, though; maybe Laettner, if any of them. People will hate Austin, but I think they'll also fear/respect him in a way they never really did those three unathletic, caucasian guards. He has the ability to just completely humiliate the opponent and make the kind of jaw dropping play that sends a crowd into an involuntary hush, kind of in the same way Jordan did (not comparing them in other way, BTW).

I think the fact that Rivers has such a nasty handle and finishing ability - along with, yes, his race - will give him some "street cred" that Wojo/JJ/Paulus never had. He's bad and he knows it. Honestly, I think you'll see a lot of neutral fans drawn to that aspect of him, and even the haters will have moments where they're humbled.

It will be interesting to watch, but I think he'll be a whole different animal. Unless he struggles significantly; then all bets are off.

[chrisheery]

is going to deserve the hate he gets, and he seems to want it. I love that about him. Its like JJ except he can dunk on people and he is a top 3 recruit in the country.

That said, I never understood the Scheyer hate. He was never ever cocky or even a trash talker. I understood why they hated JJ. I even understood hating Kyle a bit. We all know he talked trash quietly to the opposition. I never saw Jon even look like he was talking.

(That reminds me of Kyle's titty-twister against WVU. So funny)

(( Link: http://ufck.org/forums/showthread.php?t=230000&page=1 ))

[SMO]

Pics from Duke's 1st practice...looks like Seth bulked up quite a bit too...

http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?&ATCLID=205180269&DB_OEM_ID=4200

Tyler Thornton looks like he's been on the DeMarcus Nelson/Navy SEAL workout routine too! Dude looks jacked!

[pfrduke]

Yeah it does. Weird to see them out there without #2 and #12.

Well, #2 and #12 are out there. It's just Cook and Murphy (respectively) now.

[CDu]

Well, #2 and #12 are out there. It's just Cook and Murphy (respectively) now.

Yeah, if anything, it was weird to see #2 out there and realize it's not Nolan Smith. Similarly, it'll be weird to see #12 out there with a bad haircut and realize it's not Singler...

Can't wait for some "real" game action!

[slower]

Its like JJ except he can dunk on people and he is a top 3 recruit in the country.

Yeah, it's also like JJ, except JJ was national player of the year. So, there's that. Here's hoping that Rivers comes anywhere close to that level. I love the kid - hope he can back up the swag.

Rivers will probably be a better pro than JJ, but as a COLLEGE player, JJ was an absolute killer.

I'm geeked about a lineup that includes Austin, Mason, Tyler and Dre (not to slight anybody else, just that these guys in particular have shown some nice swagger). Hopefully, the days of the Georgetowns of the world trying to get in our heads and punk us are OVER.

[NSDukeFan]

Yeah, it's also like JJ, except JJ was national player of the year. So, there's that. Here's hoping that Rivers comes anywhere close to that level. I love the kid - hope he can back up the swag.

Rivers will probably be a better pro than JJ, but as a COLLEGE player, JJ was an absolute killer.

I'm geeked about a lineup that includes Austin, Mason, Tyler and Dre (not to slight anybody else, just that these guys in particular have shown some nice swagger). Hopefully, the days of the Georgetowns of the world trying to get in our heads and punk us are OVER.

I like the team's chances this year and expect a great year with lots of learning and improving. I do expect that there will likely be some losses at least as bad as the Georgetown loss this year and in the days to come. As good and experienced as the last couple of Duke teams were, I don't expect the perhaps equally talented, but less experienced team this year to not have any bad nights this year, unfortunately. I don't care how much swagger our guys have, it will be difficult to replicate the consistent effort of the past couple of teams, though I expect K will do his best to make it happen.

[ThePublisher]

Since practices have started for China, does anyone know if the guys will be at the Pro-Am anymore?

I can see both sides of the argument. It's risking injury to play, but also providing a unique experience against some decent competition. Obviously the defensive level is lowered, which lowers the chance of injury....

Anyone have any info?

[Billy Dat]

I don't think "The Hate" will be quite the same as for those players, though; maybe Laettner, if any of them. People will hate Austin, but I think they'll also fear/respect him in a way they never really did those three unathletic, caucasian guards. He has the ability to just completely humiliate the opponent and make the kind of jaw dropping play that sends a crowd into an involuntary hush, kind of in the same way Jordan did (not comparing them in other way, BTW).

I think the fact that Rivers has such a nasty handle and finishing ability - along with, yes, his race - will give him some "street cred" that Wojo/JJ/Paulus never had. He's bad and he knows it. Honestly, I think you'll see a lot of neutral fans drawn to that aspect of him, and even the haters will have moments where they're humbled.

It will be interesting to watch, but I think he'll be a whole different animal. Unless he struggles significantly; then all bets are off.

This is well said, and I think we're zeroing in on the potential of the Austin phenomenon. I think it's important to point out that my preference for all players is that they kind of go about their business destroying the opposition and do the old Barry Sanders casual flip of the ball to the ref. So, I am not projecting a hope that Rivers is the opposite of that, but it's clear that he seems to be cut of the Laettner/JJ cockiness cloth. Watching his body language in the Pro-Am videos supports that. Granted, that is more of an "And-1" style environment where being flashy for the crowd is almost a requirement, but you can sense that it comes naturally for him. I wonder how K will approach it? The team will need that kind of confidence. I think as long as that type of flossing doesn't show itself on the practice floor, K will try and tap into it. It's a fine line, too much of it is a distraction, but trying to reign it in too much limits his potential. When K talks about Rivers' "amazing competitive spirit", he seems to be talking about that bravado. It's been a while since we had this kind of freshman join a team where the leadership pecking order was so unformed.

[MCFinARL]

I like the team's chances this year and expect a great year with lots of learning and improving. I do expect that there will likely be some losses at least as bad as the Georgetown loss this year and in the days to come. As good and experienced as the last couple of Duke teams were, I don't expect the perhaps equally talented, but less experienced team this year to not have any bad nights this year, unfortunately. I don't care how much swagger our guys have, it will be difficult to replicate the consistent effort of the past couple of teams, though I expect K will do his best to make it happen.

I'm assuming you mean the St. John's loss this year--which was reminiscent of the Georgetown loss the previous year.

[Arrghbc1201]

Has anyone seen any Twitter updates from any of the players regarding this weeks games?

[airowe]

Since practices have started for China, does anyone know if the guys will be at the Pro-Am anymore?

I can see both sides of the argument. It's risking injury to play, but also providing a unique experience against some decent competition. Obviously the defensive level is lowered, which lowers the chance of injury....

Anyone have any info?

Coaching staff is out recruiting this week. Guys should be there Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday.

[NSDukeFan]

I'm assuming you mean the St. John's loss this year--which was reminiscent of the Georgetown loss the previous year.

You are correct. I meant the Georgetown game two years ago, the St. John's loss this year, the Arizona loss this past year, the Villanova loss in 2008-09, the Clemson loss that same year, all the losses that people say remind them of previous losses. Unfortunately, I expect more of them this year that will bring up memories of all of these losses again, even the personnel will be vastly different. Fortunately, I don't expect there will be that many losses and it should be very fun to watch the players on this team develop.

[chrisheery]

Yeah, it's also like JJ, except JJ was national player of the year. So, there's that. Here's hoping that Rivers comes anywhere close to that level. I love the kid - hope he can back up the swag.

Rivers will probably be a better pro than JJ, but as a COLLEGE player, JJ was an absolute killer.

I'm geeked about a lineup that includes Austin, Mason, Tyler and Dre (not to slight anybody else, just that these guys in particular have shown some nice swagger). Hopefully, the days of the Georgetowns of the world trying to get in our heads and punk us are OVER.

We will likely never find out if Austin can be the college player that JJ was. That said, I think he will be very close to as good or possibly better than JJ was as a freshman. I'd probably bet money on it.

[Spy]

Has anyone seen any Twitter updates from any of the players regarding this weeks games?

Austin tweeted that he'll be playing tomorrow (Wednesday)

[Newton_14]

Below is the schedule with players according to rosters. As noted before, no guarantee's all will show up or play. Also Silent G played for a different team last week than the one he is listed on so not clear on his situation yet. The 8pm and 9pm games on the next two nights represent good chances to see most of our guys if most of them participate. Get there early though. The press have been advertising the league this year much more so than in years past and folks are showing up in droves.





Wednesday, July 13
6 pm 20/20 vs. CEO Mun McAdoo/Watts/Noel vs Silent G
7 pm Triangle G vs. Team Jamison Wall/Henson/Black Pigeon vs Raymon Felton/Chris Wilcox
8 pm Team McGladrey vs. Team Hendrick Mason/Tyler/Alex vs Ryan/Seth/Austin
9 pm Sheraton Imperial vs. 751 South Kyrie/Andre/Josh vs Miles/Marshall/Quin

Thursday, July 14
7 pm 20/20 vs. Next Level Custom UNC guys
8 pm Triangle G vs. Team McGladrey Mason/Tyler/Alex
9 pm Team Hendrick vs. Sheraton Imp Ryan/Seth/Austin vs Kyrie/Andre/Josh

[ThePublisher]

As a heads up to those attending.

You can now park in the parking deck and lot beside it for free. So you don't have to park your car on random neighborhood streets. There were also some security guys around the deck.

[akhan786]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjEHRURQap4&feature=feedu


:D:D:D:D I can't wait for the season to start!!!!!!!!!!!

[Duke of Nashville]

Has anyone seen any Twitter updates from any of the players regarding this weeks games?

Cook, Marshall and Hairston played last night (along with John Wall). It's all over twitter that Cook and Hairston were two of the better players on the court and Marshall was a freak athlete.

I would love to see some footage....

[dcar1985]

Cook, Marshall and Hairston played last night (along with John Wall). It's all over twitter that Cook and Hairston were two of the better players on the court and Marshall was a freak athlete.

I would love to see some footage....


Unfortunately everyone is talking about UNC's PJ Hairston, not Josh...I dont believe he played last night

[Duke of Nashville]

Unfortunately everyone is talking about UNC's PJ Hairston, not Josh...I dont believe he played last night

TJ you mean? Dang....should have done a roster check. Thanks for the head's up.

[slower]

We will likely never find out if Austin can be the college player that JJ was. That said, I think he will be very close to as good or possibly better than JJ was as a freshman. I'd probably bet money on it.

I think you're right about Austin vs. JJ freshman production. My context/comparison was the amount of hate Austin will receive compared to the hate JJ got. By his senior year, JJ was as reviled as any Duke player has ever been (IMO, more than Laettner). Whether JJ's greatness elevated the level of hate is debatable - I believe it did. Anyway, the original comment was that Austin was just like JJ, except he can dunk over people. I was just commenting that he has not (yet) proved to be comparable to senior-year JJ in on-court performance (a factor which contributed to the level of JJ-hate).

I hope Austin is that good. Hey, I hope he's BETTER. He's got the swagger, and I would love to see him back it up by shoving it down the throats of the haters.

[moonpie23]

CAPEL IN DA HOUSEEEEEEEEE...


welcome back jeff...

[jhigg0]

Anybody have an idea what time I should get there to be sure I'll get in? Is 6 early enough?

[ThePublisher]

Anybody have an idea what time I should get there to be sure I'll get in? Is 6 early enough?

Since the first game doesn't really have that many big name players 6 is probably safe. I was there just at 6 (first game was a women's game though) and was able to get a great seat. I'll be there just before 6 tonight and expect to have no problems.

Keep in mind that this is a little gym; the higher you sit the hotter it gets once it fills up.

[ThePublisher]

First game about to start.Filling up in here.

[ThePublisher]

Tonight was much less impressive than last Thursday. The energy just wasn't there.
A couple of things stood out.
Lorenzo Brown can't guard Austin Rivers.
Gbinije is going to be a contributor as he was all over the court doing a bit of everything. I can't wait to see him as a soph and junior, wow.

[Greg_Newton]

Attendance was certainly underwhelming, but I got a little footage of Kelly/Rivers/Gibinije:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rln-ArJtSe4

I have a tiny memory card though, so I missed:

-A few Rivers drives/layups
-Pretty much everything Curry did
-Kelly's sick reverse dunk in traffic.
-Gbinije's NASTY and-1 alley-oop that knocked the defender (who basically tomahawked Gbinije's arms and bounced right off) on flat his back, then block of Brown's dunk on the other end, then coast-to-coast lay-in. Literally happened 5 seconds after I turned my camera off... ******* Silent G. :cool:

Rivers has an epic cross and 3 on Lo Brown (#12) about halfway through, though. UNC guys looking solid at the end, too. :p

[Greg_Newton]

-Lorenzo Brown had trouble with Rivers, but so did Rivers with Brown... he looks like he's grown/gotten more explosive (I confused him with CJ Leslie a couple times). Always liked his game, I'll predict he'll be ~2nd-3rd team All-ACC this year.

-Curry was automatic, but did not look very good when trying to create his own shot.

-Kelly was nonexistent on the defensive end and pretty lazy/passive at times, but looked pretty good otherwise. Pretty sure he was trying to show off for his future wife and father-in-law.:D

-Rivers didn't seem as into it as he did Thursday, but was still pretty much getting to the rim at will. When it was "his turn" to go 1-on-1, he usually got where he wanted.

-Gbinije is really solid, physically. He's powerful, athletic as he needs to be, and pretty efficient; he got a few nice rebounds and some nice players. His outside shot may be pretty overrated though; even during warmups, he missed a few in ways that shooters don't usually miss.

-Henson was unstoppable around the rim. Barnes didn't do much, and got 2 charges trying to drive on an NC Central player. Hairston is going to be very good in Carolina's system.

[Greg_Newton]

Rivers has an epic cross and 3 on Lo Brown (#12) about halfway through...

Okay, I couldn't help myself: :p
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFyjE5SzLDs

[DukeFanSince1990]

Okay, I couldn't help myself: :p
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFyjE5SzLDs

I just noticed a similarity between Rivers shot and Larry Bird's. Just look at how he holds and releases. He uses two hands like Bird did.

[Faison1]

Attendance was certainly underwhelming, but I got a little footage of Kelly/Rivers/Gibinije:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rln-ArJtSe4

I have a tiny memory card though, so I missed:

-A few Rivers drives/layups
-Pretty much everything Curry did
-Kelly's sick reverse dunk in traffic.
-Gbinije's NASTY and-1 alley-oop that knocked the defender (who basically tomahawked Gbinije's arms and bounced right off) on flat his back, then block of Brown's dunk on the other end, then coast-to-coast lay-in. Literally happened 5 seconds after I turned my camera off... ******* Silent G. :cool:

Rivers has an epic cross and 3 on Lo Brown (#12) about halfway through, though. UNC guys looking solid at the end, too. :p

Was that Felton at the end? He's looking....how should I say...plump. Are my eyes deceiving me?

[Starter]

Was that Felton at the end? He's looking....how should I say...plump. Are my eyes deceiving me?

They're not. Everything I've heard is that Felton has already put on all his lockout weight. (He wasn't really svelte to begin with, but I guess I can only assume he's comfortable in his ability to work himself back into playing shape by the time the NBA works out its labor dispute. Obviously, it seems like he has plenty of time.)

[kong123]

Was that Felton at the end? He's looking....how should I say...plump. Are my eyes deceiving me?

A few observations.

One, it appears that Felton is in charge of John Henson's weight gain regiment. Raymond is leading by example.

Two, I am glad the football department has helped the basketball department find one extra year of eligibility for Rasheed Wallace.

Three, I wish DS and LM would play with as much confidence as they play with in these pick up style games. McDonald looks like the best player on the court. There were times last year when he was unstoppable in games and then others where he didn't hit a thing. The heels definitely have firepower, just a matter of bringing that talent to the real games. If we shoot 40% from three this year, it will be tough to beat us.

Finally, JH is going to be a real beast this year. He has gotten much bigger. An interview with him last week said that he was weighing in at about 220 lbs. He is looking quicker as well. He flushed almost every thing around the basket. He is showing better moves too. I understand that there is little to no defense played in these games, but one can see improvement. He is a great example of what a couple extra years of college will do for someone who could have made an ill-advised jump to the NBA after his first season. Could he land himself as the top pick next June?

[jimrowe0]

A few observations.

One, it appears that Felton is in charge of John Henson's weight gain regiment. Raymond is leading by example.

Two, I am glad the football department has helped the basketball department find one extra year of eligibility for Rasheed Wallace.

Three, I wish DS and LM would play with as much confidence as they play with in these pick up style games. McDonald looks like the best player on the court. There were times last year when he was unstoppable in games and then others where he didn't hit a thing. The heels definitely have firepower, just a matter of bringing that talent to the real games. If we shoot 40% from three this year, it will be tough to beat us.

Finally, JH is going to be a real beast this year. He has gotten much bigger. An interview with him last week said that he was weighing in at about 220 lbs. He is looking quicker as well. He flushed almost every thing around the basket. He is showing better moves too. I understand that there is little to no defense played in these games, but one can see improvement. He is a great example of what a couple extra years of college will do for someone who could have made an ill-advised jump to the NBA after his first season. Could he land himself as the top pick next June?

He's draft status will certainly improve, but there is no way he goes #1 (really 1-3 honestly)

[CDu]

Three, I wish DS and LM would play with as much confidence as they play with in these pick up style games. McDonald looks like the best player on the court. There were times last year when he was unstoppable in games and then others where he didn't hit a thing. The heels definitely have firepower, just a matter of bringing that talent to the real games. If we shoot 40% from three this year, it will be tough to beat us.

I think the key is that the defenses are so inferior in quality to the college game that it makes life easy. This applies to both the UNC and Duke players (and NC State players). Aside from the occasional 1-on-1 matchup (and usually those aren't taken overly seriously), there just doesn't seem to be any defense played. In organized games, you see much more defensive intensity and better traps/double-teams/switches.


Finally, JH is going to be a real beast this year. He has gotten much bigger. An interview with him last week said that he was weighing in at about 220 lbs. He is looking quicker as well. He flushed almost every thing around the basket. He is showing better moves too. I understand that there is little to no defense played in these games, but one can see improvement. He is a great example of what a couple extra years of college will do for someone who could have made an ill-advised jump to the NBA after his first season. Could he land himself as the top pick next June?

I won't be shocked at all if Henson is a lottery pick. But I think #1 would be a stretch. There's so much talent potentially coming out this year that he'll have to jump over a lot of players (including, potentially, a teammate). But I wouldn't be at all shocked to see him go in the top five.

[superdave]

What position will Henson play in the pros? 3 or 4?

I think that's the main thing that will hold him back from being a higher pick and a better pro. How can he handle banging against someone he's giving up 35 lbs to? I think he should work on his jumper and become a 3...a longer Tayshaun Prince type.

[CDu]

What position will Henson play in the pros? 3 or 4?

I think that's the main thing that will hold him back from being a higher pick and a better pro. How can he handle banging against someone he's giving up 35 lbs to? I think he should work on his jumper and become a 3...a longer Tayshaun Prince type.

He'll be a 4. He has the height and arm length to be a 4. He'll have to gain weight, but I don't think he has any hope of being a 3 at the next level. In addition to the poor shooting, e doesn't have the quickness or the ballhandling for the position. Tayshaun Prince is a bad comparison. Prince had much better ballhandling, quickness, and shooting ability than Henson (Prince was a wing even in college). And even so, Prince was not known for being a very good offensive player in the pros.

[gumbomoop]

... #1 would be a stretch.

If #1 is to be a stretch, that would surely make Henson the favorite.

[slower]

He's draft status will certainly improve, but there is no way he goes #1 (really 1-3 honestly)

It WOULD be sweet to see Henson go higher than the Gray Pigeon. Any blow to Barnes' immense ego is a victory for mankind.

[SupaDave]

He'll be a 4. He has the height and arm length to be a 4. He'll have to gain weight, but I don't think he has any hope of being a 3 at the next level. In addition to the poor shooting, e doesn't have the quickness or the ballhandling for the position. Tayshaun Prince is a bad comparison. Prince had much better ballhandling, quickness, and shooting ability than Henson (Prince was a wing even in college). And even so, Prince was not known for being a very good offensive player in the pros.

Yes - think Tyrus Thomas or even Jo Noah and if he bulks up more (and he will) the kid will be a great pro.

I've actually always thought Henson reminded me of a skinny Otis Thorpe. If he can even come close to approaching that bulk then he will be a beast.

[Newton_14]

Yes - think Tyrus Thomas or even Jo Noah and if he bulks up more (and he will) the kid will be a great pro.

I've actually always thought Henson reminded me of a skinny Otis Thorpe. If he can even come close to approaching that bulk then he will be a beast.

I agree with the thoughts on Henson. I think he will be a fine NBA player at the 4. The thing is, he does not remind me of anyone. Very unique player. I have never seen a player anywhere with arms as long as Henson. He is so freakishly long it is just bizarre to me. That length gives him a huge advantage. I have often wondered how good he would be if he had say, just average wingspan for a 6'10 guy. I think it is possible he would not be nearly as effective. His legs also appear to be abnormally long which helps him as well. Last year in Cameron, he was at a dead standstill at the foul line, pumpfaked Kelly, ducked under, took one step and finger rolled it right at the rim. Likely could have dunked it had he tried. Awesome move, but without the freakish length and stride, no way he makes that play.

His shot improved toward the end of last year as well. Not a great shooter by any means, but improving.

[moonpie23]

tayshaun prince?

[Eternal Outlaw]

They're not. Everything I've heard is that Felton has already put on all his lockout weight. (He wasn't really svelte to begin with, but I guess I can only assume he's comfortable in his ability to work himself back into playing shape by the time the NBA works out its labor dispute. Obviously, it seems like he has plenty of time.)

From what I understand when Felton was traded to here in Portland is that he actually gained some weight after the New York to Denver trade and kind of fell into a rut then in bad eating habits. Hard to blame him, he signed into a situation he liked in NY and started out with a fine season before NY was more than happy to send him away to be a back-up.

[dukeballboy88]

I think Henson is UNC's best player. He could be the most dominate player in the nation. When asked last year if Id rather see Barnes or Henson go if I had to choose I said Henson and it aint even close.

[superdave]

Did I see on the twitter last night that Leslie McDonald may have tweaked his knee at the pro-am? Ruh-roh. Let the hand-wringing about the pro-am begin.

[roywhite]

I agree with the thoughts on Henson. I think he will be a fine NBA player at the 4. The thing is, he does not remind me of anyone. Very unique player. I have never seen a player anywhere with arms as long as Henson. He is so freakishly long it is just bizarre to me. That length gives him a huge advantage. I have often wondered how good he would be if he had say, just average wingspan for a 6'10 guy. I think it is possible he would not be nearly as effective. His legs also appear to be abnormally long which helps him as well. Last year in Cameron, he was at a dead standstill at the foul line, pumpfaked Kelly, ducked under, took one step and finger rolled it right at the rim. Likely could have dunked it had he tried. Awesome move, but without the freakish length and stride, no way he makes that play.

His shot improved toward the end of last year as well. Not a great shooter by any means, but improving.

Yeah, I was thinking back to Sam Perkins, but I'd say Henson is even more long-limbed than Plastic Man Sam.

If he's near the basket, he seems to get his hands on rebounds and alter shots at a very high rate. For opposing teams, they must try to move him out of the paint whenever possible.

Just offhand, I'd say Henson is pre-season POY in the conference. Way more valuable to the Heels than the Black Falcon IMO.

[Sandman]

I agree with the thoughts on Henson. I think he will be a fine NBA player at the 4. The thing is, he does not remind me of anyone. Very unique player. I have never seen a player anywhere with arms as long as Henson. He is so freakishly long it is just bizarre to me. That length gives him a huge advantage. I have often wondered how good he would be if he had say, just average wingspan for a 6'10 guy. I think it is possible he would not be nearly as effective. His legs also appear to be abnormally long which helps him as well. Last year in Cameron, he was at a dead standstill at the foul line, pumpfaked Kelly, ducked under, took one step and finger rolled it right at the rim. Likely could have dunked it had he tried. Awesome move, but without the freakish length and stride, no way he makes that play.

His shot improved toward the end of last year as well. Not a great shooter by any means, but improving.

Henson reminds me a lot of Alex English, who played for South Carolina back in the day. English had a very productive NBA career and was an awsome rebounder for a guy who was about 6'8"-6'10" and probably weighed about 100 lbs.! If Henson can do as well, he'll be really successful in the NBA.

[jimsumner]

Henson reminds me a lot of Alex English, who played for South Carolina back in the day. English had a very productive NBA career and was an awsome rebounder for a guy who was about 6'8"-6'10" and probably weighed about 100 lbs.! If Henson can do as well, he'll be really successful in the NBA.

You do realize Alex English was a great shooter and a prolific scorer. He averaged 21.5 points per game over a 15-year NBA career and once led the NBA in scoring at over 28 ppg.

[DukeHoopsGuru]

Henson reminds me a lot of Alex English, who played for South Carolina back in the day. English had a very productive NBA career and was an awsome rebounder for a guy who was about 6'8"-6'10" and probably weighed about 100 lbs.! If Henson can do as well, he'll be really successful in the NBA.

Poor man's Marcus Camby.

[Vincetaylor]

Yeah, I was thinking back to Sam Perkins, but I'd say Henson is even more long-limbed than Plastic Man Sam.

If he's near the basket, he seems to get his hands on rebounds and alter shots at a very high rate. For opposing teams, they must try to move him out of the paint whenever possible.

Just offhand, I'd say Henson is pre-season POY in the conference. Way more valuable to the Heels than the Black Falcon IMO.

UNC could potentially have 4 first team All-ACC guys next year. That doesn't make me happy.

[MChambers]

UNC could potentially have 4 first team All-ACC guys next year. That doesn't make me happy.

It will make beating them all the more rewarding.

[Faison1]

UNC could potentially have 4 first team All-ACC guys next year. That doesn't make me happy.

The same could have been said for Duke last year. Worrying about it during the summer does no good.

There is no doubt that UNC is going to be very good this year. So will Kentucky. From a Duke Perspective, the only thing worse would be for UConn to be in the mix again.

Luckily for us, I think we are going to be good this year. Especially if our frontcourt plays as confidently as they did against UNC in the ACC Tourney. In fact, outside of Barnes, I think we match up pretty well against those guys.

[CDu]

tayshaun prince?

I'm guessing that Henson measures out a bit taller with a bit longer arms. Conversely, Prince had much more quickness and perimeter skills.

But Henson is sort of the post-player version of Tayshaun Prince.

[superdave]

UNC could potentially have 4 first team All-ACC guys next year. That doesn't make me happy.

Yeah, but if they dont know how to close out games any better then they will be mental jello again. They will be good, even great at times, but none of them scare me. Control Marshall and pop Henson early and they will play timid.

[CDu]

Henson reminds me a lot of Alex English, who played for South Carolina back in the day. English had a very productive NBA career and was an awsome rebounder for a guy who was about 6'8"-6'10" and probably weighed about 100 lbs.! If Henson can do as well, he'll be really successful in the NBA.

I don't see the comparison (aside from skinniness). English was about 6'7", averaged 5.5 rebounds per game as an NBA small forward, and had a very good offensive game (he averaged over 25ppg for 8 straight years in the 1980s. Henson is a bit taller, a better rebounder and shot blocker, and a much less gifted offensive player.

[Ultrarunner]

I don't see the comparison (aside from skinniness). English was about 6'7", averaged 5.5 rebounds per game as an NBA small forward, and had a very good offensive game (he averaged over 25ppg for 8 straight years in the 1980s. Henson is a bit taller, a better rebounder and shot blocker, and a much less gifted offensive player.

English doesn't seem to be a good comparison. I think he's more like Dennis Rodman in terms of skill sets. He'll probably be a better shotblocker though maybe not as good at defensive positioning. Offensively, he'll collect junk baskets and take other PFs off the dribble. We'll see about intensity.

[OldSchool]

Yeah, I was thinking back to Sam Perkins, but I'd say Henson is even more long-limbed than Plastic Man Sam.

I was thinking of Sam Perkins as well until I remembered that Sam could hit a jump shot.

[jimsumner]

Camby is a pretty good comparision. Henson may never be a go-to scorer but he certainly can impact a game in positive ways for his team.

[Spy]

According to IC, McDonalds got a torn ACL.

[ncexnyc]

Luckily for us, I think we are going to be good this year. Especially if our frontcourt plays as confidently as they did against UNC in the ACC Tourney. In fact, outside of Barnes, I think we match up pretty well against those guys.

I think your analysis of the frontcourt match-up is spot on. While Zeller is a gifted offensive player, he tends to play soft and Miles can clearly outmuscle him. I believe Henson and Mason pretty much cancel each other out, as they both are long and athletic and give you pretty much the same thing on either end of the floor. If there is any advantage in that match-up, I'd say it goes to Mason as he's definitely the stronger of the two. As you say the difference maker is Barnes. Last year I think it's fair to say Kyle and Barnes played each other to a stalemate in 3 games. Barnes has the potential to be a big time scorer and we have to wonder if Dawkins or Silent G can play him even like Kyle did.

[moonpie23]

who ever steps into kyle's role needs to understand and embrace what position they are playing. WINNER!


i trust the message will not be lost on whomever that might be...

[wk2109]

According to IC, McDonalds got a torn ACL.

http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/story/2011-07-15/unc-guard-leslie-mcdonald-could-lose-season-to-acl-tear

[moonpie23]

bummer.......sorry for him....i want the tarholes to be full strength....hope he recovers...

[Newton_14]

http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/story/2011-07-15/unc-guard-leslie-mcdonald-could-lose-season-to-acl-tear

I hate that for him. He was really playing well. I wish him a speedy recovery. As for playing in the league, if the kids are not playing in the summer league they are playing pickup games where the exact same thing can happen. So I don't fear our guys playing out there. They have to play in the summer to get better plain and simple.

I do feel that guys are more careful in the summer league to avoid mid-air collisions which is good. If a guy goes strong to the hoop, unless the defender is straight in front of him, they basically let the offensive player get the dunk and move out of the way.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Camby is a pretty good comparision. Henson may never be a go-to scorer but he certainly can impact a game in positive ways for his team.

I expect to see a lot more mid range shots from him this season.
His form is good, just needs confidence and reps. I think he's gonna be a beast for teams to deal with and is underrated by many. A cross between Camby and Rodman seems about right.

Really bumming about LMac. Kid was coming into his game. Losing him is a big set back, but part of the game. :(

[elvis14]

Were there any more games played by any Duke players the last 2 days? I'd love to hear more about what people have seen from our guys. I don't really care about UNC@CH's Henson.

[jimsumner]

I expect to see a lot more mid range shots from him this season.
His form is good, just needs confidence and reps. I think he's gonna be a beast for teams to deal with and is underrated by many. A cross between Camby and Rodman seems about right.

Really bumming about LMac. Kid was coming into his game. Losing him is a big set back, but part of the game. :(

Henson showed signs of comfort with a 10-foot face-up jumper late last season and there were hints that foul-shooting wasn't as much an adventure as earlier in the season. He can still be moved off the blocks by a stronger player. But the stronger player has to be able to catch up with him first.

It's hard to project his NBA future. He doesn't have anything resembling an NBA perimeter game and he needs 20-30 pounds to effectively play in the post. But his length, quickness and jumping ability are off the charts.

[CMARTZ]

Were there any more games played by any Duke players the last 2 days? I'd love to hear more about what people have seen from our guys. I don't really care about UNC@CH's Henson.

Agreed. The last page of discussion hasn't been about the Pro Am.

[Greg_Newton]

I expect to see a lot more mid range shots from him this season.
His form is good, just needs confidence and reps. I think he's gonna be a beast for teams to deal with and is underrated by many.

I don't disagree with your last sentence, but ~0 of Henson's 20-some points came from non-dunks in the recent pro-am game I saw, and his shot was still pretty atrocious; he bricked a couple FTs, then flat-out airballed one.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

I am in Raleigh this week and there's an outside chance I could make a game. I saw there are games scheduled, any advice on which night might be best to see Duke or UNC players?

[fh84]

any inside info on whether our guys are going to show up today or sometime this week. There is no info on twitter at all.
I went last Thursday and none of our guys showed up, which makes it much less fun. I wonder if the K and Roy keep letting them play after what happened to McDonald on Thursday.

[devildeac]

Some guy's picture with prince harry:

http://desmond.yfrog.com/Himg740/scaled.php?tn=0&server=740&filename=5hur.jpg&xsize=640&ysize=640

Front page material?

Ranks right up there with the guy wearing the "I don't give a s**t about carolina" t-shirt taken with ol' roy that has been on the front page here on more than one occasion.:D

[devildeac]

Some guy's picture with prince harry:

http://desmond.yfrog.com/Himg740/scaled.php?tn=0&server=740&filename=5hur.jpg&xsize=640&ysize=640

Front page material?

Ranks right up there with the guy wearing the "I don't give a s**t about carolina" t-shirt taken with ol' roy that has been on the front page here on more than one occasion.:D

And another after just a wee bit of captioning/editing:

http://crazietalk.net/ourhouse/download/file.php?id=1185&t=1

[Greg_Newton]

Okay, I couldn't help myself: :p
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFyjE5SzLDs

But props on the DBR home page! My life is now complete! :cool:

[Newton_14]

any inside info on whether our guys are going to show up today or sometime this week. There is no info on twitter at all.
I went last Thursday and none of our guys showed up, which makes it much less fun. I wonder if the K and Roy keep letting them play after what happened to McDonald on Thursday.

Per Twitter lots of Duke guys at the ProAm tonight. Andre tearing it up right now in his game.


@BlueDevilNation Mark Watson
Dr. Dre killing it at the @ncproam. Mr. Dawkins is in the house and he's not playing. 4 3's for Dawk his team up 22-19 10:00 in first

[fh84]

Yeah, I was there. It was nice. Seth Curry and Andre Dawkins looked great, Andre had a monster dunk in the first half. Mike Gbinije played extremely well and looked like he will have an impact right away - he had some threes and some really nice moves. Apparently there will be some highlights of the Dukies on ABC11 tonight...

[Wheat/"/"/"]

What is the best time to arrive if I can get there Wednesday? I'll have to take a cab so won't have to worry about parking...__

[Greg_Newton]

What is the best time to arrive if I can get there Wednesday? I'll have to take a cab so won't have to worry about parking...__

In my experience, you want to get there at 7 at the latest if you want to make sure you get in, 6ish if you want to ensure center-court or lower-level seats.. It might end up being a slow night with some empty seats, but when it gets packed, it can fill up by then. For example, last Tuesday I got there at 6 and could pretty much sit where I wanted... but there were good seats open pretty much all night. Whereas the Thursday before, I got there at 7:30 and never got in (sounded like they cut it off at 7-7:15 from talking to folks).

That's the great mystery of the Pro-Am... you never know what you're getting yourself into!

[Duvall]

Apparently there will be some highlights of the Dukies on ABC11 tonight...

Highlights (http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/video?id=8260021).

[fh84]

If you go tomorrow, you will want to be there earlier. According to the ncproam twitter and some indications from his own twitter, Brandon Jennings will show up and play tomorrow - there might be a lot of people trying to go...

[roywhite]

Highlights (http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/video?id=8260021).

Nice. Thanks.

I liked the brief Alex Murphy highlight around 0:25. He looks fluid handling the ball; I see what Mike Corey was talking about as Alex having a high skill level.

[Bob Green]

Highlights (http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/video?id=8260021).

Thanks for the link. I like the comments from Austin Rivers at the end of the clip when he talks about his responsibility to get the ball into Seth and Andre's hands when they are "feeling it."

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Thx. 4 days sitting around Rex hospital is getting old.
My dad had a quad bypass today and is doing well, so I may get to slip away Wed evenlng for some games, whoever shows up.
I'll be the old silver haired point guard in a Carolina visor..and a "world's greatest tarpon fishing" tee.
Will try to go early, look me up and say hello if anyone goes.

[Greg_Newton]

Thx. 4 days sitting around Rex hospital is getting old.
My dad had a quad bypass today and is doing well, so I may get to slip away Wed evenlng for some games, whoever shows up.
I'll be the old silver haired point guard in a Carolina visor..and a "world's greatest tarpon fishing" tee.
Will try to go early, look me up and say hello if anyone goes.

Hope the best for your pops.

Yeah, I'd definitely get there by 6 tomorrow if you can. Word is out across the interwebs that Brandon Jennings will be in the house, and it sucks to be waiting outside on Lawson St. in the stinking heat knowing you missed the action by a few minutes...

[Duke of Nashville]

Nice. Thanks.

I liked the brief Alex Murphy highlight around 0:25. He looks fluid handling the ball; I see what Mike Corey was talking about as Alex having a high skill level.


Dunleaveyesk

[devildeac]

Thx. 4 days sitting around Rex hospital is getting old.
My dad had a quad bypass today and is doing well, so I may get to slip away Wed evenlng for some games, whoever shows up.
I'll be the old silver haired point guard in a Carolina visor..and a "world's greatest tarpon fishing" tee.
Will try to go early, look me up and say hello if anyone goes.

Check your PM. I work at Rex Hospital.

[fh84]

just a heads up, it looks like Brandon Jennings has just played the nc pro am people a little, since he has since tweeted that he will be playing at a different summer league tonight. but who knows, maybe he'll still show up

[devildeac]

Thx. 4 days sitting around Rex hospital is getting old.
My dad had a quad bypass today and is doing well, so I may get to slip away Wed evenlng for some games, whoever shows up.
I'll be the old silver haired point guard in a Carolina visor..and a "world's greatest tarpon fishing" tee.
Will try to go early, look me up and say hello if anyone goes.

Take Wheat up on his offer. Just met him and his family in the CTRU at Rex Hospital. He's a good guy, must have inherited it as his Mom and Pop were really nice, too. His Dad looks great 1 day after quadruple bypass surgery. Wheat's gonna steal, err, borrow his sister's car with a GPS so he can find the NC Pro-Am and hopefully post his observations. He is almost as big a Duke fan as he is a unc guy, born and raised in NC and a fan of the "other side" since he was 6.

[roywhite]

Take Wheat up on his offer. Just met him and his family in the CTRU at Rex Hospital. He's a good guy, must have inherited it as his Mom and Pop were really nice, too. His Dad looks great 1 day after quadruple bypass surgery. Wheat's gonna steal, err, borrow his sister's car with a GPS so he can find the NC Pro-Am and hopefully post his observations. He is almost as big a Duke fan as he is a unc guy, born and raised in NC and a fan of the "other side" since he was 6.

Nicely done there, devildeac. A little outreach to the opposing fanbase. :)

Havent met Wheat personally, but I know he goes way back on these boards. Best wishes to him and his dad. If Wheat makes it in to see the Pro/Am, look forward to his comments.

[Faison1]

Take Wheat up on his offer. Just met him and his family in the CTRU at Rex Hospital. He's a good guy, must have inherited it as his Mom and Pop were really nice, too. His Dad looks great 1 day after quadruple bypass surgery. Wheat's gonna steal, err, borrow his sister's car with a GPS so he can find the NC Pro-Am and hopefully post his observations. He is almost as big a Duke fan as he is a unc guy, born and raised in NC and a fan of the "other side" since he was 6.

Speedy recovery to your Dad, Wheat.

But there is no way, NO WAY, Wheat is a Duke fan.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Speedy recovery to your Dad, Wheat.

But there is no way, NO WAY, Wheat is a Duke fan.

Big Duke fan...when losing to UNC :)

Thanks for all the best wishes for my father.

No ACC players in the first mens game.
Durham kid Dominic Sutton transfer from Kansas St. back to NCCU a man among boys.

Duke girls player Corey Wells looked good.

Just announced Leslie McDonald in the house...maybe some ACC guys next game.

[devildeac]

Wheat and devildeac:

http://crazietalk.net/ourhouse/download/file.php?id=1187&t=1

One a legend in his own time, the other a legend in his own mind;). At least you were wearing the correct colored shirt:p.

Wheat-your dad looked great. Hope you had a rewarding time tonight at the Pro-Am. Looking forward to your report.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Wheat, I haven't been reading this thread until now. Best to your dad on his continued recovery. If I get up to Raleigh tomorrow (Thursday) I'll get up with Devildeac to try to get up with you, assuming you're still around Rex. Would be nice to finally meet you! :cool:

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Wheat, I haven't been reading this thread until now. Best to your dad on his continued recovery. If I get up to Raleigh tomorrow (Thursday) I'll get up with Devildeac to try to get up with you, assuming you're still around Rex. Would be nice to finally meet you! :cool:

I'll be around Rex most of the day Thursday, Devildeac can text me with a meet time if it can work for you guys. I can handle the doubleteam:)

The pro am was a big letdown. No ACC players tonight. Sheed played and was pretty funny, and out of shape. He tried to entertain by doing what Sheed does, getting on the refs.

The best player I saw all night was NCCU's Dominic Sutton. I don't know his story, but I was told he sat out last season after a transfer from Kansas st. He looked about 6'8" and has a NBA body and hops. Pretty good handle, and could finish and play D. Never saw him take an outside shot, which probably explains why he's at NCCU and not in the ACC.

Saw a bunch of really good athletes, but was not impressed by their ballhandling. Sloppy would be a compliment for most of them.

Did see Leslie McDonald hanging out and he looked in good spirits.

[ricks68]

Wheat,

Been following your comments for years now. You're the kind of UNC fan that will always be welcome on this board as far as I am concerned. Hope all goes well with your dad.:)

ricks

[Faison1]

Wheat and devildeac:

http://crazietalk.net/ourhouse/download/file.php?id=1187&t=1

One a legend in his own time, the other a legend in his own mind;). At least you were wearing the correct colored shirt:p.

Wheat-your dad looked great. Hope you had a rewarding time tonight at the Pro-Am. Looking forward to your report.

Great picture, and I'm glad to place a face with a post.

Thanks for helping us keep it all in perspective!

[jimrowe0]

It looks like Austin and Seth will be playing tonight

[Bob Green]

Per BDN Twitter, Andre Dawkins is having another hot shooting night:

http://twitter.com/#!/BlueDevilNation/statuses/94212732605317120


@dre_day20 Andre Dawkins is killing it tonight. I lost count of his points!

[Mike Corey]

Just had to get those braces off, I guess.

Thanks for the update, Bob!

[Greg_Newton]

Caught Dre's game and the second half of AR/Curry. Will post some video in a few.

-Dre played PG the entire game for his team - mostly due to a guard shortage, but even the other guards on his team deferred to him, which was cool to see (sharp contrast from last year). His handle still doesn't blow you away in the open court and it's not like he's got double/triple counter moves like AR, but he was getting to the rim pretty consistently in the halfcourt. Probably mostly due to the competition, but he got to the line much more than anyone else I saw tonight. Really solid build these days.

-Seth looked very good (maybe missed one shot), but it was hard to tell much given the competition. Was clearly a cut above everyone on the other team though, including DJO.

-Sounds like I missed most of the AR show, but it's almost like he's getting bored with the Pro-Am; he can turn on the showtime and get to the rim whenever he wants, but the non-ACC guys just aren't really competition for him. You can just see him thinking "I could be doing ballhandling drills in Cameron right now..."

Along those lines, I could definitely see signs of the manic intensity and basketball focus others have referred to recently; after few lazy full-court turnovers by his teammates cut the lead to ~10 with a minute left, he got visibly irritated, barked at his teammates, and D'ed the crap out of some poor guard so hard that he basically shot a 19-foot fadeaway running away from the basket (granted, as Austin was fouling him).

Don't want to invoke the L(aettener)-word, but I think we may look back at Austin as the guy we've had in a long time with both the ability to dominate every opponent he faces and a brain that's not wired to accept/consider anything else. If he continues his current trajectory, I don't think we'll have to worry about having a closer or a "throat stepper" this year. He's scary.

[magjayran]

Austin Rivers definitely put on a show tonight. He's gonna be a special player. That kid from Marquette couldn't guard him. Seth looked good but seemed to be taking it easy after his big outburst on Tuesday. He even had a little dunk.

The first game featured all three Plums plus Alex Murphy. Everyone had highlights but they didn't look good as a team. Mostly because there was really no point guard. That guy Dominic Sutton is a heck of a ball player and a crazy athlete. He put an insane dunk down over Mason on the break.

Alex Murphy's game looks more Dunleavy than Singler to me. He's got some nice finger rolls.

and then of course Andre was the player of the day. He was missing threes in the first half but still had some nice highlights triggered by good defense. In the second half he got hot and put on a shooting exhibition that had the crowd gasping. His handle seems to have improved but it still needs some improvement.

I'm not a big fan of Sheed Wallace but he is absolutely hilarious to watch in the Pro-Am and he was Andre's biggest fan tonight. He seems to care a lot about his team winning but not enough to play offense or defense. What a weirdo.

[Mike Corey]

I think we may look back at Austin as the guy we've had in a long time with both the ability to dominate every opponent he faces and a brain that's not wired to accept/consider anything else.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFRVQZ07evc

[Greg_Newton]

Here's a couple minutes of highlights of AR, Seth and Dre from tonight. I missed the Pliumvirate and AR's 17 first-half points, but, better than nothing...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjrAeaOxe_w

[gwlaw99]

Here's a couple minutes of highlights of AR, Seth and Dre from tonight. I missed the Pliumvirate and AR's 17 first-half points, but, better than nothing...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjrAeaOxe_w

Rivers handle looks amazing. And how about Andre using the crossover to create space for his shot and tAking it hard to the rim?

[Greg_Newton]

Rivers handle looks amazing. And how about Andre using the crossover to create space for his shot and tAking it hard to the rim?

Yeah, Dre wasn't playing with/against any ACC-level talent, but he certainly looked more confident and powerful taking it in the paint (didn't just seem limited to a pre-planned one-dribble move, like he's always been).

And speaking of those handles, while I'm screwing around in iMovie anyway, here's the Austin Rivers Ridiculous Move Of The Day: :D


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8p7x4OPlYA

(He didn't even score, but when you think about how much skill it takes to physically do that, not to mention effectively enough to shake one of the best players in the country... :eek: Pretty sure it would take me 5-10 minutes to complete that same set of jukes/dribbles!

[roywhite]

Thanks much for the video, Greg Newton.

Austin is going to be fun to watch. And hard to guard!
Just thinking...I suppose the Heels would want Strickland to try to check Austin; he might occasionally get matched up with Kendall Marshall, and that would be a tough matchup for Kendall.

No doubt the Heels will be formidable this coming season, but Duke has the weapons to beat them on a given night. I'm not sure any other college teams will have a group of outside shooters that would compare with Austin, Seth, and Andre.

[meloveduke]

Thanks much for the video, Greg Newton.

Austin is going to be fun to watch. And hard to guard!
Just thinking...I suppose the Heels would want Strickland to try to check Austin; he might occasionally get matched up with Kendall Marshall, and that would be a tough matchup for Kendall.

No doubt the Heels will be formidable this coming season, but Duke has the weapons to beat them on a given night. I'm not sure any other college teams will have a group of outside shooters that would compare with Austin, Seth, and Andre.

Yeah and with Kelly at the 4, it would be crazy for the other team to handle all the fire power, Plus open up the lane for the drives.

[jimrowe0]

It was nice to see Andre hitting his three pointers off the dribble.

[Kedsy]

Andre also looked a lot bigger than Austin (at least on the video). Makes me even more confident we'll see a lot more Seth/Austin/Andre than we will Quinn or Tyler/Seth/Austin.

(In other words, when Quinn and Tyler check in, most of the time they'll be subbing for Seth or Austin, rather than Andre. Presumably, Mike and Alex would sub in for Andre.)

[roywhite]

Here's some highlights from 7/21 action shown on WTVD

Duke player highlights (http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/video?id=8264610)

[DeBlueDevil]

Here's some highlights from 7/21 action shown on WTVD

Duke player highlights (http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/video?id=8264610)

I love Murphy's highlight at the beginning of the video. I don't know but if he can bring that type of versatility to the court this year...we're in good shape at the 3. With Andre and Silent G's offensive and defensive ability as well....we might be better off than I thought we were!

Great depth at the guard positions along with the 3, 4, and 5 positions being nothing less than solid. We're in great shape!

[DukieInBrasil]

Andre also looked a lot bigger than Austin (at least on the video). Makes me even more confident we'll see a lot more Seth/Austin/Andre than we will Quinn or Tyler/Seth/Austin.
(In other words, when Quinn and Tyler check in, most of the time they'll be subbing for Seth or Austin, rather than Andre. Presumably, Mike and Alex would sub in for Andre.)

Na-ailed it!

Tyler and Quinn are both going to provide valuable minutes this year at different times, and TT in particular, may even grab a few starts. But i have a hard time believing that the ball-handling + scoring potential of Seth+Austin as well as the defense stretching shooting of Dre will be overcome by those attributes+defense of TT and QC. Partly b/c both Seth and Dre have 2+ years in K's system (vs 1+ for TT+QC).
IOW, i totally agree with Kedsy, b/c Seth and Dre have both been on a NC team, have grown in to K's system, and (I have to believe) will fully blossom this year. That's nothing against either QC or TT, but they just need some more time b4 they get to where Seth and Dre are now in terms of maturity and mastery of K's system.
Though Austin is taller than Dre, I think Kedsy also nailed the substitution pattern we're likely to see, IOW, Dre will be playing more of a SF role, in which either (silent)G or Murphy can sub for. Although Murph has gotten lots of praise for his Singleresqueness or perhaps Dunleavyesqueness, i don't really see much need for him to play PF the way Singler did as a Fr, cuz honestly, we're stacked in the post now.

Has anyone seen any of the Plumlees launch a 3 this summer? I know at one point both Miles and Mason were praised for the range up to the 3pt line, but last year that was definitely de-emphasized. Aside from the 3 of them, is there anyone on the team who is not capable of shooting 3s? I know Josh didn't shoot one last year, but does he have that kind of range?

[dcar1985]

Andre also looked a lot bigger than Austin (at least on the video). Makes me even more confident we'll see a lot more Seth/Austin/Andre than we will Quinn or Tyler/Seth/Austin.

(In other words, when Quinn and Tyler check in, most of the time they'll be subbing for Seth or Austin, rather than Andre. Presumably, Mike and Alex would sub in for Andre.)

Andre is definitely bigger than Austin even as a freshman coming in early, he just has a bigger frame naturally, but it is encouraging that Dre looks alot stronger and more cut then he has the past 2 years

[magjayran]

Na-ailed it!
Has anyone seen any of the Plumlees launch a 3 this summer? I know at one point both Miles and Mason were praised for the range up to the 3pt line, but last year that was definitely de-emphasized. Aside from the 3 of them, is there anyone on the team who is not capable of shooting 3s? I know Josh didn't shoot one last year, but does he have that kind of range?

Both Miles and Mason hit a three last night. I still don't think that they should be looking for that shot too often.

[magjayran]

Here's some highlights from 7/21 action shown on WTVD

Duke player highlights (http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/video?id=8264610)

Murphy actually had a more impressive baseline drive and dunk in the first half and Miles had a crazy reverse in traffic as well. Cameraman must have gotten there late.

[hustleplays]

Andre also looked a lot bigger than Austin (at least on the video). Makes me even more confident we'll see a lot more Seth/Austin/Andre than we will Quinn or Tyler/Seth/Austin.

(In other words, when Quinn and Tyler check in, most of the time they'll be subbing for Seth or Austin, rather than Andre. Presumably, Mike and Alex would sub in for Andre.)

omg, it looks like Koaching Koncern [1.b] cannot be used this year [see DBR Pocket Reference] :D Just not allowed. What an exciting bench -- this will be a fun, explosive team, young, high energy and focused on dominating, given the fierce competitiveness of Austin Laettner.

oh oh, I guess it raises even more, though, Koaching Koncern [1.a]. ;) But I bet Koach K has a lot of fun figuring out how to move in and out and around all of these talented moving parts. Opposing coaches will have a lot of not-so-fun figuring out how to match up against them.

Maybe they put in the China trip so we junkies could hold on till the regular season.

Go Duke!

[Greg_Newton]

Here's some highlights from 7/21 action shown on WTVD

Duke player highlights (http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/video?id=8264610)

:eek:

Grant Hill-esque lob, indeed...

1941

[yancem]

:eek:

Grant Hill-esque lob, indeed...

1941

Grant Hill-esque but I'm pretty sure that Hill was close to a foot higher!

[dukeballboy88]

I dont know about yall but I feel like im more pumped about this season than last year.

[slower]

I dont know about yall but I feel like im more pumped about this season than last year.

That's probably because you know how last season turned out. :D

I don't think our expectations, in general, are as sky-high as they were last pre-season. Nevertheless, they are still high!

[Bluedevil114]

That's probably because you know how last season turned out. :D

I don't think our expectations, in general, are as sky-high as they were last pre-season. Nevertheless, they are still high!

I agree!! How could a real Duke fan not be more pumped up for last season? Just came off our 4th National Championship and returning two Player of the Year candidates which were also seniors. Then bringing in Kyrie Irving (potentially the #1 player in the 2010 class). My expectations are definitely much less than last year but still excited to see this team develop. Austin Rivers is special.

[dukeballboy88]

I was very excited about last year becauase my favorite Blue Devil of all time came back for his senior year Kyle Singler. Getting to see Kyle and Nolan for 4 years was awesome.

But this Rivers kid brings this excitement to the game like ive never seen. He has swag that makes everybody in the gym take notice when he walks in. I love his passion and love for the game. Plus, I think this freshman class is going to be special.

If we win it all this year it might surprise you but it wont surprise me.

[CDu]

I was very excited about last year becauase my favorite Blue Devil of all time came back for his senior year Kyle Singler. Getting to see Kyle and Nolan for 4 years was awesome.

But this Rivers kid brings this excitement to the game like ive never seen. He has swag that makes everybody in the gym take notice when he walks in. I love his passion and love for the game. Plus, I think this freshman class is going to be special.

If we win it all this year it might surprise you but it wont surprise me.

If we win the NCAA championship in any year it should always be a surprise. No one is ever favored to win the championship over the rest of the field.

Last year's team was in a better place at this point last year than this year's team is right now. The team was fresh off a championship, had very few question marks, and was returning 2 All-American candidates and arguably the #1 freshman in the country. This year's team has lots of talented players (most of whom were on last year's team too), but it has a lot more question marks.

I expected an ACC-championship and elite-8 (or better) run in the NCAA tournament with last year's team at this time. This year, I don't expect an ACC championship (though I wont be shocked if we won it) and a Sweet-16 appearance. We'll be very good, but last year's team had more going for it at this point.

That's not to say that this year's team can't have an amazing year and win it all. I just don't agree that this year's team has more excitement around it than last year's.

[magjayran]

:eek:

Grant Hill-esque lob, indeed...

1941

Yeah Murphy doesn't have near the hops that Grant had...but almost no one does.

[phaedrus]

Yeah Murphy doesn't have near the hops that Grant had...but almost no one does.

Was Rivers, not Murphy - but I think your statement applies to Rivers, too.

[devildeac]

Yeah Murphy doesn't have near the hops that Grant had...but almost no one does.

Yea, but if he has Junior's handle (or anywhere near it) then we are in for some special treats:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RM4yoO3RHKI

[gumbomoop]

If we win the NCAA championship in any year it should always be a surprise.

This year, I don't expect an ACC championship (though I wont be shocked if we won it) and a Sweet-16 appearance.

The drift in some of the latest posts in this thread have, logically enough, morphed from comments re how our guys look in the pro-am to how we feel about our hopes in 2011-'12.

Although I certainly agree with the larger point that CDu is making in tag-quote para #1, I have to admit that, in some off-kilter sense [normal for me], I'm always surprised when Duke does not win the NC. That is, as a loony optimist, I'm always - always - surprised when Duke loses any game. Of course I wouldn't predict an undefeated season, even last year, but for any particular game, I always think Duke's gonna win. And I'm almost always right. [Not bragging here; just stating a statistical fact, depending, I suppose, on the precise definition of "almost always."] Naturally by NCAAT time, things are tougher, but still, I'm genuinely surprised when we lose. I was very unpleasantly surprised by our play v. 'Zona, but then so were pretty much all of you. We all expected to win, and to win the next one, and ultimately to win the NC.

So, as for me, contra CDu - and clearly contra the "logic of the odds" - I'm always surprised when Duke [I]does not win the NC. Should this position offend the karma gods, screw 'em.

Now, I have either misread CDu's tag-quote 2d para or CDu needs to revise that syntax. CDu, do you mean, literally, that this year, you "do not expect" Duke to even make it to "a Sweet-16 appearance"? Huh?

I'd be really surprised if, for a team that will surely be a consensus top 4-6 preseason pick, you don't think they'll get past the first weekend. Huh? If by some off-kilter [fair's fair] chance you do in fact think this, you gotta rethink. Really.

More broadly on the thread-morph into our various expectations, pumped-up-ness, etc., I do find that the general-consensus [consensus, not unanimous] drift of the summer posts is that we think, collectively, Duke will be very good, fully able to challenge the Heels, Cats, and Buckeyes. I don't think that was quite the consensus-assumption back in May.

Now, whether next March we can beat, I don't know, Illinois, or California, or Notre Dame, in the Round of 32, well, my advice is, don't trust CDu's syntax.

[magjayran]

Was Rivers, not Murphy - but I think your statement applies to Rivers, too.

Of course. Rivers has actually ended up being taller and more athletic (hops wise) than I thought he would be watching those first highlight clips. He's just not Grant level.

[magjayran]

Yea, but if he has Junior's handle (or anywhere near it) then we are in for some special treats:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RM4yoO3RHKI

I'm pretty sure that we'll see a couple plays like that from Alex before he's left Duke.

[dukeballboy88]

I fully expect Duke to win the ACC regular season and tourney and the NC every year. As a matter of fact, I am in complete and utter disbelief when Duke loses a game period. I fully expect to win them all or at least I psych myself out to think this. Its a mindset that K has instilled in me over the last 30 years.

[Greg_Newton]

Grant Hill-esque but I'm pretty sure that Hill was close to a foot higher!

:p Well, of course. But how many one-handed lobs do you see that are successfully thrown down from outside the backboard?

I'm much, much more excited about Rivers than I was a few months ago. He's really growing up into a big time player.

[wilko]

I fully expect Duke to win the ACC regular season and tourney and the NC every year. As a matter of fact, I am in complete and utter disbelief when Duke loses a game period. I fully expect to win them all or at least I psych myself out to think this. Its a mindset that K has instilled in me over the last 30 years.

Ditto. I'll raise you and say I'm disappointed when we don't win by 30.

[meloveduke]

Ditto. I'll raise you and say I'm disappointed when we don't win by 30.

I am only upset when we lose winable games because we dont play the wway we should, ala AZ........

No way you can be mad if your not the better team and still lose the game, we all know that Duke is not always the best team every year. I do think we are the best or at least top 3 a lot.

[CDu]

The drift in some of the latest posts in this thread have, logically enough, morphed from comments re how our guys look in the pro-am to how we feel about our hopes in 2011-'12.

Although I certainly agree with the larger point that CDu is making in tag-quote para #1, I have to admit that, in some off-kilter sense [normal for me], I'm always surprised when Duke does not win the NC. That is, as a loony optimist, I'm always - always - surprised when Duke loses any game. Of course I wouldn't predict an undefeated season, even last year, but for any particular game, I always think Duke's gonna win. And I'm almost always right. [Not bragging here; just stating a statistical fact, depending, I suppose, on the precise definition of "almost always."] Naturally by NCAAT time, things are tougher, but still, I'm genuinely surprised when we lose. I was very unpleasantly surprised by our play v. 'Zona, but then so were pretty much all of you. We all expected to win, and to win the next one, and ultimately to win the NC.

So, as for me, contra CDu - and clearly contra the "logic of the odds" - I'm always surprised when Duke [I]does not win the NC. Should this position offend the karma gods, screw 'em.

Now, I have either misread CDu's tag-quote 2d para or CDu needs to revise that syntax. CDu, do you mean, literally, that this year, you "do not expect" Duke to even make it to "a Sweet-16 appearance"? Huh?

I'd be really surprised if, for a team that will surely be a consensus top 4-6 preseason pick, you don't think they'll get past the first weekend. Huh? If by some off-kilter [fair's fair] chance you do in fact think this, you gotta rethink. Really.

More broadly on the thread-morph into our various expectations, pumped-up-ness, etc., I do find that the general-consensus [consensus, not unanimous] drift of the summer posts is that we think, collectively, Duke will be very good, fully able to challenge the Heels, Cats, and Buckeyes. I don't think that was quite the consensus-assumption back in May.

Now, whether next March we can beat, I don't know, Illinois, or California, or Notre Dame, in the Round of 32, well, my advice is, don't trust CDu's syntax.

I'm very sorry for the error in typing. I meant "I don't expect us to win the ACC championship, but (or though) I expect us to be a Sweet-16 team." Anything beyond that is gravy for me this year. I do not think we'll lose in the first weekend. There's always a chance we could lose early (a lot of new roles) and there's always a chance we could be participating in the Final Four (lots of talent). But I don't have nearly the expectations that I had last year. And even last year I didn't expect a title.

Obviously, I hope we win it all every year. But I tend to be more of a realist than an optimist. We've won the NCAA tournament more often than anyone else over the last 20 years, but we still have lost it much more than we've won it during that span. So the logic in me dictates that I never expect to win the title and I'm pleasantly surprised when we do.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

I fully expect Duke to win the ACC regular season and tourney and the NC every year. As a matter of fact, I am in complete and utter disbelief when Duke loses a game period. I fully expect to win them all or at least I psych myself out to think this. Its a mindset that K has instilled in me over the last 30 years.
Welcome to my world! There's plenty of room on the plane/train/bus, the seats are always very comfortable, the fare is reasonable and the food and beverages can't be beat! :cool:

[Troublemaker]

Duke, as usual, is loaded this season. Whether that means Duke is a top-5 team, though, depends on how good Rivers is; the height of a team's ceiling is heavily influenced by how great its best player is. I could see Austin playing like an All-American this season, but a part of me wouldn't be surprised if he's an inefficient, high-volume shooter his freshman year. For example, Jason Williams eventually became a stud for Duke but he was quite inefficient his freshman year. We need Austin to be more like Kyrie (but healthy, knock on wood), a stud guard recruit who is immediately efficient and great.

But yeah, if Austin is indeed one of the best players in the country, Duke should absolutely expect to be as good as Ohio St and Kentucky. (UNC, unfortunately, is on another level altogether, imo). Duke projects to have at least a 3rd-team ACC caliber player at every starting position, good depth, and hopefully an All-American in Rivers. Yes, that means I'm very bullish on the upperclassmen bigs playing well this season. It's their time. I think Duke has top-5 talent.

Last summer I looked at UNC's roster and wrote that we were underrating their team because they had top-5 talent, and indeed that talent translated into a "surprising" season that included a regular season ACC crown. Well, I feel this Duke team will "surprise" as well, maybe not accomplishing that exact same feat, but we'll be a strong contender. Duke is loaded with talent as long as Austin is fast-tracking it to stardom. If that happens, I don't think Duke pales in comparison to any team except for one.

[gumbomoop]

Duke, as usual, is loaded this season. Whether that means Duke is a top-5 team, though, depends on how good Rivers is; the height of a team's ceiling is heavily influenced by how great its best player is.

If Austin is indeed one of the best players in the country, Duke should absolutely expect to be as good as Ohio St and Kentucky. (UNC, unfortunately, is on another level altogether, imo).

If that happens, I don't think Duke pales in comparison to any team except for one.



Strong post by Troublemaker, interesting analysis on AR's importance to how good Duke can be in 2011-'12.

Troublemaker's argument reminds me to bring up something I've been meaning to ask about for several months. I don't have access to ESPN Insider, so I never got to read Jay Bilas's blog about how there had been no great teams in 2009-'10 and 2010-'11, but that there would be great teams in 2011-'12. I assumed he probably thought/thinks that UNC, UK, maybe tOSU could be great. [Anyone confirm?]

Now, here Troublemaker makes a good case that Duke can challenge 2 of the maybe-great 3, but not the Heels.

I've said that my sense is that many posters have this summer moved into optimism-territory re the Devils, and that virtually everyone would agree with T that, yes, if AR is real deal, top 5 and deep NCAAT run, yes. Some [including me] would even say that Duke is loaded enough that AR is gonna have lots of helpful teammates in winning lots of games.

But the elephant in the room is Carolina. I've no quarrel with the view that UNC is clear preseason #1, a solid cut above the very talented UK - because Heels are more experienced and deep - and above tOSU's 3-talent [Sullinger, Craft, Buford] excellence, for the same reason.

Nor do I quarrel with the view that Duke is preseason below these 3, fighting for # 4-7 spots with 'Cuse, Memphis, probably Vandy, maybe way-way-guard-heavy Fla.

But allow me to use Troublemaker's own argument to raise a nagging doubt about the Heels. Maybe it's plausible to predict that, if Duke's ceiling depends on AR, well, goose-gander-like, then UNC's depends on HB. Now one can reasonably say, "Yeah, but HB is just better than AR, with a crucial year of learning experience," with which I would not disagree. But HB's greatness, IMO, depends heavily on whether he has substantially - not just marginally - improved his handle. I am aware that HB is himself aware of this weakness in his game, and attended CPaul camp to get better.

We'll see soon enough, and [I]probably to our dismay. But not yet so certainly that I am willing fully to accept Troublemaker's "another level altogether" thesis.

[lotusland]

I fully expect Duke to win the ACC regular season and tourney and the NC every year. As a matter of fact, I am in complete and utter disbelief when Duke loses a game period. I fully expect to win them all or at least I psych myself out to think this. Its a mindset that K has instilled in me over the last 30 years.

Duke is left standing in the center of my bracket every year and UNC never advances to the sweet 16. Why would I pick who I don't want to win and then hope that I'm wrong? I'd rather hope I'm right! Well, come to think of it, I've never won the pool even when Duke won the NT and the Heels were in the NIT. Oh well it's only $10 and I sleep well at night.

[Kedsy]

We'll see soon enough, and probably to our dismay. But not yet so certainly that I am willing fully to accept Troublemaker's "another level altogether" thesis.

I agree with Gumbo. UNC is good, no doubt. They return all five starters from a pretty good team and add a couple possible impact freshman. But the thing is, while they were pretty good last year, they weren't so great that I'd classify them now as "on another level." They won five games last season by 3 points or fewer, and other four games by 5 or 6. A few bounces go the other way, and they were middle-of-the-pack ACC team, probably a #4 or #5 seed, maybe getting to the Sweet 16 but maybe not. And nobody would be saying they're "on another level" now.

And, yeah, I know a win's a win. Wishes and horses and all that. But UNC spent most of last season looking good but not great, even with Marshall. I'm not convinced they're so much better now than everybody else.

[lotusland]

Strong post by Troublemaker, interesting analysis on AR's importance to how good Duke can be in 2011-'12.

Troublemaker's argument reminds me to bring up something I've been meaning to ask about for several months. I don't have access to ESPN Insider, so I never got to read Jay Bilas's blog about how there had been no great teams in 2009-'10 and 2010-'11, but that there would be great teams in 2011-'12. I assumed he probably thought/thinks that UNC, UK, maybe tOSU could be great. [Anyone confirm?]

Now, here Troublemaker makes a good case that Duke can challenge 2 of the maybe-great 3, but not the Heels.

I've said that my sense is that many posters have this summer moved into optimism-territory re the Devils, and that virtually everyone would agree with T that, yes, if AR is real deal, top 5 and deep NCAAT run, yes. Some [including me] would even say that Duke is loaded enough that AR is gonna have lots of helpful teammates in winning lots of games.

But the elephant in the room is Carolina. I've no quarrel with the view that UNC is clear preseason #1, a solid cut above the very talented UK - because Heels are more experienced and deep - and above tOSU's 3-talent [Sullinger, Craft, Buford] excellence, for the same reason.

Nor do I quarrel with the view that Duke is preseason below these 3, fighting for # 4-7 spots with 'Cuse, Memphis, probably Vandy, maybe way-way-guard-heavy Fla.

But allow me to use Troublemaker's own argument to raise a nagging doubt about the Heels. Maybe it's plausible to predict that, if Duke's ceiling depends on AR, well, goose-gander-like, then UNC's depends on HB. Now one can reasonably say, "Yeah, but HB is just better than AR, with a crucial year of learning experience," with which I would not disagree. But HB's greatness, IMO, depends heavily on whether he has substantially - not just marginally - improved his handle. I am aware that HB is himself aware of this weakness in his game, and attended CPaul camp to get better.

We'll see soon enough, and [I]probably to our dismay. But not yet so certainly that I am willing fully to accept Troublemaker's "another level altogether" thesis.

Duke is probably going to need MP1, MP2 and Ryan to have major improvement over last year to be anywhere near a Final Four caliber team. Positions 1-3 they will start out the season weaker on both sides of the ball than at the start of last season and probably weaker than last year even without Kyrie. Nolan, Kyle and Seth/Dre > AR, Seth and Dre/(Silent G, Quin, TT). I don't think Freshman AR can give us what Nolan did as a Senior. That's not a knock on AR but I just don't see ACC POY as a Frosh. We'll definitely be weaker at 3 without Kyle.

[sagegrouse]

Duke is probably going to need MP1, MP2 and Ryan to have major improvement over last year to be anywhere near a Final Four caliber team. Positions 1-3 they will start out the season weaker on both sides of the ball than at the start of last season and probably weaker than last year even without Kyrie. Nolan, Kyle and Seth/Dre > AR, Seth and Dre/(Silent G, Quin, TT). I don't think Freshman AR can give us what Nolan did as a Senior. That's not a knock on AR but I just don't see ACC POY as a Frosh. We'll definitely be weaker at 3 without Kyle.

Duke is full of talent that was not fully called on last year with Kyle, Nolan, and sometimes Kyrie on the floor. I fully expect several players to emerge, and I would not be surprised if Mason, Austin, Ryan and Seth were All-ACC. I think we will have some really close and tough battles with UNC, with the outcome determined by match-ups and intangibles. I expect a relatively untested Duke team to have ups and downs throughout the season, but a really good season overall.

UNC is awesome "on paper," which as far as I know is not a field of combat in NCAA basketball. What I would note, as would many UNC fans, is that UNC stunk in six of the last seven games of the season; only the game against Marquette in the Sweet Sixteen was a strong performance. UNC barely beat Miami and Clemson in the ACC's before collapsing against Duke. Then, it skated by an over-matched LIU in an unimpressive performance. Likewise, it barely edged UDub (in Charlotte, no less). Than, after Marquette, it lost to Kentucky with all the marbles on the table. I saw most of those games and thought that the Heels had no energy and competitive spirit. So, exactly why are they seen to a surefire champion in 2012?

sagegrouse

[jipops]

Strong post by Troublemaker, interesting analysis on AR's importance to how good Duke can be in 2011-'12.

Troublemaker's argument reminds me to bring up something I've been meaning to ask about for several months. I don't have access to ESPN Insider, so I never got to read Jay Bilas's blog about how there had been no great teams in 2009-'10 and 2010-'11, but that there would be great teams in 2011-'12. I assumed he probably thought/thinks that UNC, UK, maybe tOSU could be great. [Anyone confirm?]

Now, here Troublemaker makes a good case that Duke can challenge 2 of the maybe-great 3, but not the Heels.

I've said that my sense is that many posters have this summer moved into optimism-territory re the Devils, and that virtually everyone would agree with T that, yes, if AR is real deal, top 5 and deep NCAAT run, yes. Some [including me] would even say that Duke is loaded enough that AR is gonna have lots of helpful teammates in winning lots of games.

But the elephant in the room is Carolina. I've no quarrel with the view that UNC is clear preseason #1, a solid cut above the very talented UK - because Heels are more experienced and deep - and above tOSU's 3-talent [Sullinger, Craft, Buford] excellence, for the same reason.

Nor do I quarrel with the view that Duke is preseason below these 3, fighting for # 4-7 spots with 'Cuse, Memphis, probably Vandy, maybe way-way-guard-heavy Fla.

But allow me to use Troublemaker's own argument to raise a nagging doubt about the Heels. Maybe it's plausible to predict that, if Duke's ceiling depends on AR, well, goose-gander-like, then UNC's depends on HB. Now one can reasonably say, "Yeah, but HB is just better than AR, with a crucial year of learning experience," with which I would not disagree. But HB's greatness, IMO, depends heavily on whether he has substantially - not just marginally - improved his handle. I am aware that HB is himself aware of this weakness in his game, and attended CPaul camp to get better.

We'll see soon enough, and [I]probably to our dismay. But not yet so certainly that I am willing fully to accept Troublemaker's "another level altogether" thesis.

I have begrudgingly yet readily given similar sentiments regarding UNC as Troublemaker did in this thread. I see them as being a cut above everyone else in just about every aspect of the game. They were one of the best defensive teams in the country last season and we know their offense is going to produce. However, I'm also a little bit with gumbomoop here. I never quite understood HB's reluctance to drive to the basket and draw fouls. Obviously it's not all on HB, but nobody has more to work with than UNC.

We are of course loaded but with quite a few more unknowns. The lack of experience on the perimeter combined with guys that have never before had key roles gives K a lot more work to do than Roy will face.

[Troublemaker]

But allow me to use Troublemaker's own argument to raise a nagging doubt about the Heels. Maybe it's plausible to predict that, if Duke's ceiling depends on AR, well, goose-gander-like, then UNC's depends on HB.

That's the unfortunate thing about UNC this year, gumbo. You cited Barnes as their best player. I would've gone with Zeller myself. And someone else could reasonably say Henson due to his ability to dominate games with his rebounding and shotblocking.

UNC is going to have 3 All-American caliber players this season (and a very, very good point guard to utilize that talent, to boot). tOSU has one player of that caliber. Duke will hopefully have one. And UK may have zero? That's why, imo, the Heels are a cut above everyone else this season. They won the Powerball when all 3 of those players returned for another season.

UNC is, of course, still beatable and still susceptible to the foibles of luck that any contender has to deal with in trying to win a championship (injury, "one bad game", etc). But they have an embarassment of riches. This team isn't going to be lackadaisical, either, unlike their '09 team that sleptwalk through the regular season before turning it on for the tournament. THIS UNC team hasn't been to the Final Four yet. This team hasn't put together a dominant regular season yet. They're hungry, and they're going to give maximum effort every game this season. To me, UNC has 38-2 written all over them. Hopefully one of those "2" comes in the NCAA tournament. To Duke. That'd be sweet.

[ncexnyc]

I don't think Freshman AR can give us what Nolan did as a Senior. That's not a knock on AR but I just don't see ACC POY as a Frosh. We'll definitely be weaker at 3 without Kyle.
I'm not sure I buy into this line of reasoning. Would Nolan have been ACC POY if Kyrie didn't go down with the toe injury? I seriously doubt it. In fact I think Kyrie would have had a very good shot at being the ACC POY based on what we saw from him those first 8 games. He clearly was capable of putting up big scoring numbers and he made Mason a better player than Nolan did, because of his ability to penetrate and dish. I realize Nolan had some really nice assist stats last year, but Kyrie was definitely on a level all his own.

This year Seth knows what's expected of him, while last year there was the question mark of whether it was Seth or Dre as the first off the bench. Dre appears bigger and badder than last year and should have the 3 spot locked up. The frontline players all have an extra year under their belt and all 3 should be better than last year.

Therefore I don't believe AR has to shoulder as much of the burden as some people would make us believe. I believe he's shown he can fit into a team oriented offense and if need be he can be a go to kind of player.

[gumbomoop]

UNC is awesome "on paper," which as far as I know is not a field of combat in NCAA basketball. What I would note, as would many UNC fans, is that UNC stunk in six of the last seven games of the season; only the game against Marquette in the Sweet Sixteen was a strong performance. UNC barely beat Miami and Clemson in the ACC's before collapsing against Duke. Then, it skated by an over-matched LIU in an unimpressive performance. Likewise, it barely edged UDub (in Charlotte, no less). Than, after Marquette, it lost to Kentucky with all the marbles on the table. I saw most of those games and thought that the Heels had no energy and competitive spirit. So, exactly why are they seen to a surefire champion in 2012?

sagegrouse



.... the thing is, while they were pretty good last year, they weren't so great that I'd classify them now as "on another level." They won five games last season by 3 points or fewer, and other four games by 5 or 6.



I never quite understood HB's reluctance to drive to the basket and draw fouls.


Granted, I've cherry-picked some tag-quotes here that support my mild dissent from Troublemaker's earlier working thesis that UNC is on another level. [So sue me.]

Both Kedsy and sagegrouse raise the reasonable protest that UNC's putative greatness depends in part on a misremembering of the actual performance of last year's Heels. Implicit in their reminder, I think, is the idea that we should beware assuming the Heels will be great because ... they should be great. But as Kedsy says, you know, actually, "they weren't so great." And I'd be curious to know whether there's any strong dissent out there to sagegrouse's assertion that, too often, "the Heels had no energy and competitive spirit."

I have, like sagegrouse, wondered elsewhere on these boards about whether UNC's admittedly impressive pasting of Marquette was then, and continues to be, a kind of "misguided default" evaluation of last year's late-season Heels, and therefore this season's, too.

Obviously I'm with jipops in wondering about, and drawing a conclusion from the fact that, HB rarely used his power to get to the basket. He settled, repeatedly. Hence my willingness to apply Troublemaker's insistence that the best player determines a team's ceiling. [Honestly, I haven't thought carefully enough about this to know whether I buy it, but I'm willing to concede the theory's validity for the time being.] I am inclined to think, to fear, that HB probably will be noticeably better this year, but he won't be unless that handle is much better. For all his smooth shooting, better that than his potentially powerful attacks to the rim.

So, yes, if the Heels play with consistent energy and spirit, if they, like Duke [egads] play every play on D, if HB drives and dominates, if KM stays healthy [and plays 33-35 mpg] - i.e., if the Heels play the way they can but only inconsistently did last year, then they have a chance to be a cut above all other teams.

Which, as several wise posters have reminded us, repeatedly, guarantees nothing.

[Troublemaker]

Duke is probably going to need MP1, MP2 and Ryan to have major improvement over last year to be anywhere near a Final Four caliber team.

I expect our bigs to be very good and reliable this season. They may not score the way we would hope, but everything else will be there. As upperclassmen, they'll know the defense inside out and be able to vocalize and direct traffic from the backline, always a key to Duke's program. They'll hedge and recover properly. They won't foul as much. The shotblocking will be there. The rebounding. The alleyoops. The garbage buckets. The random game here and there where Kelly can't miss. The random game here and there where Miles has a midrange jumper going. The random game here and there where Mason has a jump hook.

Many folks view the bigs as being the key to the season but I don't see it that way. When I think "key to the season," I think of some aspect of the team that has a wide range of possibility. And I don't think there IS a wide range of possibility with our upperclassmen bigs. Basically, this season, we can count on them in every game to be good at everything except scoring. And if the bigs DO surprise us, they can only surprise us in a positive fashion -- i.e. they score. Because I do not believe they will struggle in the other phases of the game.

Therefore, the real question mark is will Duke have an efficient #1 scoring option / playmaker this season? Because the team will have almost everything else. Shooters, size, rebounding, shotblocking, experience, a very good bench; you can make the Final Four with those supporting pieces as long as they're supporting a great scorer. See UConn '11.

The "key to the season" then is, can a freshman be that #1 scorer, be that guy who bails Duke out at the end of shot clocks, be that guy who finishes close games for us, and be that guy to carry the load all season and not wear down (by far, the biggest question mark!)?. Can Austin Rivers do it? It's hard to say at this point. He's a freshman! There's no body of work, and we're asking a lot of him here.

So, I re-iterate what I said above. Austin Rivers is the key. If he's studly, Duke is absolutely a Final Four contender.

[gumbomoop]

That's the unfortunate thing about UNC this year.

UNC is going to have 3 All-American caliber players this season (and a very, very good point guard to utilize that talent, to boot). tOSU has one player of that caliber. Duke will hopefully have one. And UK may have zero? That's why, imo, the Heels are a cut above everyone else this season. They won the Powerball when all 3 of those players returned for another season.

UNC is, of course, still beatable and still susceptible to the foibles of luck that any contender has to deal with in trying to win a championship (injury, "one bad game", etc). But they have an embarassment of riches. This team isn't going to be lackadaisical, either, unlike their '09 team that sleptwalk through the regular season before turning it on for the tournament. THIS UNC team hasn't been to the Final Four yet. This team hasn't put together a dominant regular season yet. They're hungry, and they're going to give maximum effort every game this season. To me, UNC has 38-2 written all over them. Hopefully one of those "2" comes in the NCAA tournament. To Duke. That'd be sweet.

Sorry I missed your rejoinder, Troublemaker, as I was marshaling my tag-quote allies in trying to raise doubts about UNC's greatness.

I cannot deny your persuasive Powerball point. I do hold out hope - whistling past the graveyard, perhaps - that, for lack of a better term, the "vibes" of this group of Heels will not lead to consistent maximum effort. Certainly they should be hungry. And they'll likely have several leaders this year. Your 38-2 prediction would certainly require consistent excellence.

Also, unless I misunderstand the number of games any team can play, 38-2 means they'd play in both the ACCT final and NC game.

And it means those 2 losses to Duke would be sweet revenge for the Devils' 2 triple-overtime losses to them in the regular season.

Piece of cake.

[Troublemaker]

Hence my willingness to apply Troublemaker's insistence that the best player determines a team's ceiling.

Gumbo, just one quick note. In my original post, I only said the best player "heavily influences" a team's ceiling, not that he is the sole determinant of the ceiling. Obviously it's a team game and I would never disregard players 2 through 13.

To be as precise as possible, my point was this: this Duke team has a bunch of "good" players on the roster, guys who can play a specific role very well. But we need Rivers to be "great" so all those "good" pieces can fall into place around him and result in a top-5 contender. If Austin is merely "good" or has an inefficient freshman season, we're not going to contend at the highest level. (Which would be okay. I'd never begrudge a freshman for struggling).

[Kedsy]

That's the unfortunate thing about UNC this year, gumbo. You cited Barnes as their best player. I would've gone with Zeller myself. And someone else could reasonably say Henson due to his ability to dominate games with his rebounding and shotblocking.

UNC is going to have 3 All-American caliber players this season (and a very, very good point guard to utilize that talent, to boot). tOSU has one player of that caliber. Duke will hopefully have one. And UK may have zero? That's why, imo, the Heels are a cut above everyone else this season. They won the Powerball when all 3 of those players returned for another season.

UNC is, of course, still beatable and still susceptible to the foibles of luck that any contender has to deal with in trying to win a championship (injury, "one bad game", etc). But they have an embarassment of riches. This team isn't going to be lackadaisical, either, unlike their '09 team that sleptwalk through the regular season before turning it on for the tournament. THIS UNC team hasn't been to the Final Four yet. This team hasn't put together a dominant regular season yet. They're hungry, and they're going to give maximum effort every game this season. To me, UNC has 38-2 written all over them. Hopefully one of those "2" comes in the NCAA tournament. To Duke. That'd be sweet.

I think we'll just have to wait and see. Personally, I believe the 2011-12 UNC team will not be as good as the 2010-11 Duke team. I believe the 2011-12 Duke team will be better than the 2010-11 UNC team. See where I'm going with this?

[Troublemaker]

Sorry I missed your rejoinder, Troublemaker, as I was marshaling my tag-quote allies in trying to raise doubts about UNC's greatness.

I cannot deny your persuasive Powerball point. I do hold out hope - whistling past the graveyard, perhaps - that, for lack of a better term, the "vibes" of this group of Heels will not lead to consistent maximum effort. Certainly they should be hungry. And they'll likely have several leaders this year. Your 38-2 prediction would certainly require consistent excellence.

Also, unless I misunderstand the number of games any team can play, 38-2 means they'd play in both the ACCT final and NC game.

And it means those 2 losses to Duke would be sweet revenge for the Devils' 2 triple-overtime losses to them in the regular season.

Piece of cake.

Yes, indeed, you read my mind. Duke beats UNC for the NC. I was hoping the other win would be Senior Night though.

[BD80]

I expect our bigs to be very good and reliable this season. They may not score the way we would hope, ... The random game here and there where Mason has a jump hook.

... And I don't think there IS a wide range of possibility with our upperclassmen bigs. Basically, this season, we can count on them in every game to be good at everything except scoring. ...

... The "key to the season" then is, can a freshman be that #1 scorer, be that guy who bails Duke out at the end of shot clocks, be that guy who finishes close games for us, and be that guy to carry the load all season and not wear down (by far, the biggest question mark!)?. Can Austin Rivers do it? It's hard to say at this point. He's a freshman! There's no body of work, and we're asking a lot of him here.

So, I re-iterate what I said above. Austin Rivers is the key. If he's studly, Duke is absolutely a Final Four contender.

I think Mason could be the key. The staff expected a break-out season last year - so the talent is there. MPII could provide an inside-out game that will free our shooters in lieu of having a point guard that can break down defenses.

[gumbomoop]

In my original post, I only said the best player "heavily influences" a team's ceiling, not that he is the sole determinant of the ceiling. Obviously it's a team game and I would never disregard players 2 through 13.

To be as precise as possible, my point was this: this Duke team has a bunch of "good" players on the roster, guys who can play a specific role very well. But we need Rivers to be "great" so all those "good" pieces can fall into place around him and result in a top-5 contender. If Austin is merely "good" or has an inefficient freshman season, we're not going to contend at the highest level. (Which would be okay. I'd never begrudge a freshman for struggling).

Got it. Maybe I was stretching a bit in re-shaping your point [a little?] to make mine.

We may yet have 2 disagreements: (1) on whether Austin has to be great, which might devolve into a definitional debate about "great." (2) on the issue of whether we can assume UNC will be consistently hungry and focused. On this #2, do you agree with sagegrouse and Kedsy [and me] that last year's Heels weren't great at all? And if yes, I assume you'd say, "Yep, and they've learned their lesson." Yes?

[gumbomoop]

Yes, indeed, you read my mind. Duke beats UNC for the NC. I was hoping the other win would be Senior Night though.

Oh, wow, an agonizing choice. Forgetting for a moment the game in CH, and a prospective-heart-attack NC game [the very thought would produce mass hysteria], which would I choose: to beat the Heels on Senior Night or in the ACCT final? Can't have both, unless you, Troublemaker [and now we see how much trouble you are making!], will change the Heels' 2011-'12 record to 37-3. Please.

[Troublemaker]

I think we'll just have to wait and see. Personally, I believe the 2011-12 UNC team will not be as good as the 2010-11 Duke team.

Do you mean with or without Kyrie? Because I don't see how last year's Kyrie-less team can match this year's UNC team.


I believe the 2011-12 Duke team will be better than the 2010-11 UNC team.

I'm with you here. Duke will do better than 29-8, UNC's record last season.