SI puts down Austin

[CrazyNotCrazie]

In the latest Sports Illustrated (with Dirk on the cover), in the "Who's Hot, Who's Not" section, Austin Rivers is listed as "Not":

"And Duke basketball recruit Austin Rivers showed zero respect, adopting the nickname Subzero, because, he tweeted, "my moves freeze people."

Really, SI? That's the best you've got? Personally, I think it's a pretty cool nickname.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Eh...gotta earn the moniker. We'll see, maybe it will stick. Personally, if I was wearing a jersey, I wouldn't want "sub" anywhere in my name. http://crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/3.gif (http://crazietalk.net/ourhouse/posting.php?mode=post&f=3#)

[Starter]

On the lookout for the next LeBron to build up and tear down, sports media is very, very sensitive to perceived arrogance in any form. I thought the Sub Zero stuff was fine, just a kid having fun. But Austin needs to be aware he's got a target on his chest.

[SCMatt33]

I don't think that they are so much against the nickname as they are the fact that he has tried to spread it around himself. There is a pretty general consensus out there that someone else has to coin the name. Even though I'm pretty sure Austin has said that he didn't come up with the name, he has been trying to spread it himself.

[Newton_14]

On the lookout for the next LeBron to build up and tear down, sports media is very, very sensitive to perceived arrogance in any form. I thought the Sub Zero stuff was fine, just a kid having fun. But Austin needs to be aware he's got a target on his chest.
Bingo. A bit surprised the media jumped on this, but you are correct on motive. Austin will learn from it.


I don't think that they are so much against the nickname as they are the fact that he has tried to spread it around himself. There is a pretty general consensus out there that someone else has to coin the name. Even though I'm pretty sure Austin has said that he didn't come up with the name, he has been trying to spread it himself.
The thing is, I don't think Austin's intent was to spread the nickname with the hope of it catching on. I think he was just playing around, tweeted it to have some fun and that was it. I could be wrong, but after listening to his comments on it later, I really don't feel he actually wanted people to call him the nickname. My two cents..

[UrinalCake]

The fact that he even got mentioned in that spot should be an indication of how much hype he brings. Though perhaps SI just thought they were being clever with their whole "not hot/subzero" wordplay, and weren't really criticizing him.

[OldPhiKap]

After making fun of "The Black Falcon" and his self-hype, it's kind of hard for me to really defend Austin on this. He better back it up.


It ain't bragging if you back it up. But Austin's been talking more than I can remember any Duke player in a long time. I hope he realizes what he is doing, because this stuff sticks.

But I'm old school -- do it on the court before talking about how you're going to do it.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

After making fun of "The Black Falcon" and his self-hype, it's kind of hard for me to really defend Austin on this. He better back it up.


It ain't bragging if you back it up. But Austin's been talking more than I can remember any Duke player in a long time. I hope he realizes what he is doing, because this stuff sticks.

But I'm old school -- do it on the court before talking about how you're going to do it.
You make a good point. I tend to take the same sort of view.... less talk, make the statement on the court.

When I first saw this thread, I wondered if SI was breaking the story about a different Austin and the multiple license plates

[mo.st.dukie]

The fact that he even got mentioned in that spot should be an indication of how much hype he brings.

Seems like he is going to be a lightning rod for media attention. He said he wants to dunk on LeBron and that made it into Sportscenter/Around the Horn/PTI, etc. now this. He may end up being one of the most hyped, talked about, scrutinized freshman Duke has ever had. And he's said in interview that he often has that target on his back because of his last name and his lofty high school ranking. He had high school games televised on ESPN because of him when he was just a sophomore. So he's been considered for 3+ years to be one of the best in his class. People don't like his background, don't like the college he chose, and everything he says and does will be scruitinized even if he is just joking around (which I think he was with regards to the "subzero" comment).

[magjayran]

I follow him on Twitter and I thought it was immediately apparent that he was just having a laugh when he brought the nickname up. He only mentioned it the one time which to me does not indicate that he was spreading it around himself. As soon as the backlash started he made it clear that someone else came up with it and then spent far too much time repeating the fact that it was supposed to be all in good fun. There is no reason at all for SI to pick this up in any capacity.

I make up funny nicknames for myself all the time. Only difference is no one cares.

[Faison1]

One part of me is worried whether the hype surrounding Austin will play out like the Barnes Saga.

Another part of me wonders what Austin will act like if he tastes some serious success at Duke.

But overall, I pray this kid can back up everything with his play....especially in the Dean Dome. Wouldn't that be sweet?

[darjum]

Interestingly Austin has also slipped from projected #1 overall pick a month ago to projected #11 pick in 2012 by nbadraft.net:

http://www.nbadraft.net/2012mock_draft

Regardless, I just can't wait to see number 0 piling up 3's for Duke. Let your play do the talking Austin, all the doubters will see!

[oldnavy]

Well for starters, Austin Rivers has done exactly NOTHING on the college level to earn any nickname.... yet. I don't like contrived nicknames and I don't like guys that refer to themselves in the third person either by name or nickname.

I have not followed this closely so I do not know what Austin has said or not said regarding the Sub Zero nickname therefore I am not making a judgment.

I will say this, what I have seen so far which amounts to about 15 minutes combined of All Star games and some of his HS games on ESPN, Austin has a ways to go before he makes a big enough splash to be known by a nickname. Granted All Star games are about a half of a step above those Street Ball shows/games that make me want to wash my eyeballs out after seeing them, but I just have not been wowed yet... I am not saying he isn’t talented, I am just saying with the limited amount of play I have seen both All Star and High School tournament play - he has not impressed me as much as others have.

He may very well be as good or even better as he and others claim he is, but I need to see it against college competition first. Besides, I think if he has to have a nickname and he wants it to refer to cold and freezing, it should be “Black Ice”.... every time I hear sub zero I think of that batman character that Arnold played. Not sure why because I think he was Mr Freeze, but that is what pops into my head.

[roywhite]

Yeah, hate to see Austin get zinged like this; even if SI is being a little rough with their comments, it's something that Austin has brought on himself.

As I see it, Austin Rivers is just a few days away from what should be the best thing that ever happened to him.....close, daily, enlightening contact with Michael William Krzyzewski.

[Mike Corey]

Humble and Hungry is much better than Sub Zero.

[cptnflash]

Humble and Hungry is much better than Sub Zero.

Amen.

[miramar]

As long as he doesn't get a Skype account I'm good with it.

[oldnavy]

As long as he doesn't get a Skype account I'm good with it.

True. The problem with HB was that almost EVERYONE including himself built that kid up to be something that he or no other freshman could be or ever has been. As a result he looked like a major dissappointment early on when in fact he was a very good YOUNG player who had ups and downs. I still think he was GIVEN the ACC ROY award to some how justify the press's hype of him. IMO Kendall Marshall was clearly the ACC ROY. HB would be a distant second if I had a vote.

I hope that the Duke fans dont do the same with Austin. I think he will be a very good player, but he is young and will have to adjust to playing at the college level.

[moonpie23]

i think it's interesting the difference of hype with how Kyrie came into Duke, vs how HWNSNBM came into unc, and then the subsequent contrast of a year later.

"hype" is a wild ride....I hope austin is mature enough to recognize it and not fall victim to it.

[COYS]

I follow him on Twitter and I thought it was immediately apparent that he was just having a laugh when he brought the nickname up. He only mentioned it the one time which to me does not indicate that he was spreading it around himself. As soon as the backlash started he made it clear that someone else came up with it and then spent far too much time repeating the fact that it was supposed to be all in good fun. There is no reason at all for SI to pick this up in any capacity.

I make up funny nicknames for myself all the time. Only difference is no one cares.

+1 for this. Ok, Austin should own it I guess since he was joking around about it and made it public on Twitter, but he mentioned it all of once. I generally have more respect for SI's journalistic integrity than most sports news groups, but I feel this was a really silly thing to bother to print.

That being said, if Austin didn't already know how much scrutiny he's going to receive given all of the factors that so many of you have mentioned, he knows now. Between his dad, the school he chose, his decommitment from Florida, his cocky although good-natured comments about destroying Lebron on the court, and his reputation as someone who may or may not whine to the refs a little more than usual, there is already enough fuel to light the hatred fires of opposing fan bases. If he decides to let his play do all the talking, that's cool. But if he makes comments that rub the hubris police the wrong way, I really don't care that much, either, as long as he focuses on his play on the court and doesn't say anything that is actually all that bad. People are gonna hate him anyway. In my mind, one tweet about a nickname is not that big of a deal. I didn't even mind Barnes' Black Falcon stuff last year mostly because I thought it was hilarious and was glad to have the material for the Crazies to throw back at him. It really isn't that big of a deal, in my mind.

[weezie]

SI?
That picture magazine? Sort of the OK Magazine of kinda sporty stuff?
Who cares what they say about anything...although, they have some experience with "not being hot," granted.

[_Gary]

Interestingly Austin has also slipped from projected #1 overall pick a month ago to projected #11 pick in 2012 by nbadraft.net:

http://www.nbadraft.net/2012mock_draft



That's a pretty large dip for Austin in only a month! What the heck is up with that? I also take note that 5 Heels are in the Top 24. Guess we should just hand them the trophy now, huh [insert sarcastic eye roll here].

As for Rivers, I do have to admit I'd prefer him making at least a little splash on the collegiate floor prior to the amount of hubris he's demonstrated this far.

[sagegrouse]

That's a pretty large dip for Austin in only a month! What the heck is up with that? I also take note that 5 Heels are in the Top 24. Guess we should just hand them the trophy now, huh [insert sarcastic eye roll here].

As for Rivers, I do have to admit I'd prefer him making at least a little splash on the collegiate floor prior to the amount of hubris he's demonstrated this far.

I fully agree with your last para. Lets see.... We have had a healthy debate on this Board on how good Austin will be at Duke as a freshman. Some think he will be Duke's high scorer and best player. Others (including this poster) are looking for lots of minutes, a penetrator and playmaker, good defense, and double-digit scoring. Fact is, we have no idea what Austin's freshman year will be like.

Why should there be any consensus on the NBA prospects of a guard who has never played a minute in college... against much stronger players and more complicated offenses? I wouldn't be surprised at consensus on a physically dominant big man, who can be projected to develop coordination, skills, and even more strength with age. But a guard? Kyrie wasn't projected as a top pick until he dominated high-ranked college opponents in early season games.

sagegrouse
'It is unfair to Austin to project that he will be as good as Kyrie. But if you think he will be more durable, then it's from your lips to God's ear'

[darjum]

Kyrie wasn't projected as a top pick until he dominated high-ranked college opponents in early season games.

Amazingly, even when Kyrie was in high school, nbadraftnet projected him as the second overall pick. They had him going #2 after Austin Rivers in the 2012 draft. They had Barnes going #1 in 2011 though; obviously the draft is far from an exact science!

[CameronBornAndBred]

SI?
That picture magazine? Sort of the OK Magazine of kinda sporty stuff?
Who cares what they say about anything...although, they have some experience with "not being hot," granted.
Jim Tressel cared. ;)

[mapleleafdevil]

I think Austin deserves a little forgiveness. Growing up around the Celtics the last few years (let's not forget his dad has been coaching them since he was 10 or 11) is bound to rub off on a kid. Is there any team that talks as much trash as them? Coach K will take care of things.

[PADukeMom]

I am on the fence about this. While I agree he is a kid doing what kids do best he also has to realize by coming to DUKE he already has a target on his back so to speak. Having Doc as his Dad & growing up with the NBA as his playground he has to be keenly aware of what he is saying. Be honest here, if Austin was going to Carolina we would have been all over him for this self-concieved nickname.
Earn the title on the court & not via Twitter.

[magjayran]

I am on the fence about this. While I agree he is a kid doing what kids do best he also has to realize by coming to DUKE he already has a target on his back so to speak. Having Doc as his Dad & growing up with the NBA as his playground he has to be keenly aware of what he is saying. Be honest here, if Austin was going to Carolina we would have been all over him for this self-concieved nickname.
Earn the title on the court & not via Twitter.

Again, Austin did not give himself the nickname.

[wk2109]

Again, Austin did not give himself the nickname.

I'm a little confused about the 'unspoken rule' about nicknames. Is it that you can't give yourself a nickname, or is it that you can't be the one primarily spreading your own nickname even if someone else gives it to you? If it's the former, then Austin's probably off the hook because his friend allegedly came up with the name, but if it's the latter, which the haters seem to think it is, then he's probably guilty.

[MCFinARL]

I'm a little confused about the 'unspoken rule' about nicknames. Is it that you can't give yourself a nickname, or is it that you can't be the one primarily spreading your own nickname even if someone else gives it to you? If it's the former, then Austin's probably off the hook because his friend allegedly came up with the name, but if it's the latter, which the haters seem to think it is, then he's probably guilty.

Well, okay, but guilty of what? Of sending out a single twitter message about a nickname a friend gave him that he thought was funny? Part of what's going on here is that kids know a lot more about how to use media than they do about the way their media messages will be received. (I actually find it refreshing that this incident suggests Austin is a little more innocent, less prepackaged and media-ready, than I might have imagined.)

Haters are gonna hate. And I agree that, in general, Austin has shown some signs of extreme self confidence that will require stellar on-court performance to back them up. But, really, it's just a tweet! Don't we all (most especially including SI) have better things to do than rake a kid over the coals for a single tweet about a nickname?

[uh_no]

I don't care what he does with his nickname...I wouldn't care if a UNC person did it, but I agree with people that if a UNC guy did this, most people here would be on him like butter on a muffin (which I think is silly...kids will be kids....)....not that its WRONG to make fun of UNC players for any reason, but I personally don't care

[wk2109]

Well, okay, but guilty of what? Of sending out a single twitter message about a nickname a friend gave him that he thought was funny? Part of what's going on here is that kids know a lot more about how to use media than they do about the way their media messages will be received. (I actually find it refreshing that this incident suggests Austin is a little more innocent, less prepackaged and media-ready, than I might have imagined.)

Haters are gonna hate. And I agree that, in general, Austin has shown some signs of extreme self confidence that will require stellar on-court performance to back them up. But, really, it's just a tweet! Don't we all (most especially including SI) have better things to do than rake a kid over the coals for a single tweet about a nickname?

Well he'd be guilty of breaking the unspoken nickname rule, which, at the very least, would constitute a pretty lame act. Not as lame as making a t-shirt and necklace like that glorified average jumpshooter at Carolina did, but still a little lame nonetheless. And when a Duke player does anything that comes close to being lame, you know he will be ridiculed.

I'm expecting big things from Austin. I like his swagger and excitement to be playing at Duke. I hope he can at least play like the junior-year version of Nolan Smith next year and maybe even the senior-year version by the end of the year. And, of course, if he goes even beyond that, I'll be really really happy.

But I agree with PADukeMom that he probably was aware of what he was saying and that he's gotta earn the nickname on the court and not on Twitter.

[Newton_14]

Well he'd be guilty of breaking the unspoken nickname rule, which, at the very least, would constitute a pretty lame act. Not as lame as making a t-shirt and necklace like that glorified average jumpshooter at Carolina did, but still a little lame nonetheless. And when a Duke player does anything that comes close to being lame, you know he will be ridiculed.

I'm expecting big things from Austin. I like his swagger and excitement to be playing at Duke. I hope he can at least play like the junior-year version of Nolan Smith next year and maybe even the senior-year version by the end of the year. And, of course, if he goes even beyond that, I'll be really really happy.

But I agree with PADukeMom that he probably was aware of what he was saying and that he's gotta earn the nickname on the court and not on Twitter.

So, Jr Nolan right out of the gate, and Sr Nolan by March? Wouldn't put much pressure on a freshman would you?:D If all you are referring to is points, I would give him a 15% chance. The total package that was Jr and Sr Nolan in one year? No chance.

That is not knocking Austin in anyway either, that is just being realistic. Austin has a ton to learn at the College level starting with Page 1 of the Duke Defense Bible. I expect he will be a good player early on the offensive end, but there will be bumps along the way.

I am content with Austin being a really good freshman, who is good enough to start from Day 1. That is likely his base, and from there he will build on it. I expect he will contend for ACC Rookie of the Year but no way will I declare him a 1st Team All ACC or ACC POY candidate before a game has been played.

[wk2109]

I expect he will contend for ACC Rookie of the Year but no way will I declare him a 1st Team All ACC or ACC POY candidate before a game has been played.

Pretty much what I'm thinking too, but one can dream!

[Newton_14]

Pretty much what I'm thinking too, but one can dream!

I will dream with you! If Austin wants to go crazy and dominate College Basketball as a Freshman I am good with that!:D

Seriously, he is really good and I think he will perform well, just not Jr/Sr Nolan Smith well.

I hope to see Austin live and in person soon in the Pro-Am. Looking forward to seeing how he performs out there.

[johnb]

So, Jr Nolan right out of the gate, and Sr Nolan by March? Wouldn't put much pressure on a freshman would you?:D If all you are referring to is points, I would give him a 15% chance. The total package that was Jr and Sr Nolan in one year? No chance.


One of the concerns that many of us have is that Austin appears brashly confident that he'll walk in and dominate from day one, that he's already BETTER than the senior Nolan. It's certainly possible that Kyrie also believed in advance that he'd be the best player on the team, but he never acted that way even when he was showing it. Similarly, someone like Luol Deng was apparently viewed as the best player on the team in his first day of practice, but he appeared solid and straight forward.

When we think cocky, we like to think of Laettner, and if he turns out to be Laettner, we'll be thrilled. If he turns out to be more of a Will Avery--who believed himself better than the coaches were telling him--it'll be a disappointment. But regardless, I for one think he's not helping the program or his career by acting like he's already an NBA all star. In other words, acting like a turkey is not what makes LeBron fly.

[oldnavy]

To be honest, I am surprised we do not see much more of the "cocky" behavior from the top guys in each class than we do. These kids are being told how great they are from the time they begin organized basketball.

You want your players to walk that fine line between confidence and arrogance. It cannot be easy when you have so many people telling you how great you are. Believe it or not I have not experienced that problem. :)


I suspect that AR will settle down some as he gets into the system just as HB did at UNC.

[Duvall]

One of the concerns that many of us have is that Austin appears brashly confident that he'll walk in and dominate from day one, that he's already BETTER than the senior Nolan.

[citation needed]

[MCFinARL]

But I agree with PADukeMom that he probably was aware of what he was saying and that he's gotta earn the nickname on the court and not on Twitter.

Interesting--I read PADukeMom's comment differently--to mean that Austin needs to be aware of what he is saying, not that he already was aware of what he was saying. Either way, I agree with both of you that, as a high profile Duke recruit, Austin will be scrutinized very closely and thus needs to think before he speaks (or tweets). I'm just not sure he had realized this at the time he made the nickname tweet--but clearly he does now. So I'm willing to give him a pass, even re the unwritten nickname rule, for what he has already said. Future tweets or remarks, though, are fair game.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

From all I read, this kid is well on his way to filling the shoes of Laettner and JJ.....as a player opposing fans will love to embrace as the face of Duke hoops....he better play like those two, or Duke fans might quickly tire of his apparent cocky attitude as well.

Team chemistry will be something interesting to watch at Duke this season.

[Lord Ash]

I, for one, have no concerns about team chemistry; generally Coach K is pretty good at creating the right atmosphere, we have a few good strong personalities on the team, and I think that especially with the trip to China and Dubai coming early the guys will have a fantastic opportunity to bond. I also have no concerns about Austin, the son of a coach, who has been around the game at the VERY highest level for so many years and who clearly understands so many aspects of the game at a level of maturity far beyond his years.

I'm also totally unphased by Austin having a single twitter about a possible video game nickname that people in desperate need of perspective (hi, he is a high school kid on twitter?) and possible a life got so upset about, and also by SI's semi-shot at him, which was pretty harmless and largely due to them needing another zero to go along with the only other guy who wears zero out there, GArenas.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

The "son of a coach" argument on chemistry actually doesn't resonate well with us Carolina fans after the Larry Drew years, :)

And I don't expect any chemistry issues/problems at Duke this season, just thought it might be something interesting to watch.

I haven't seen much of Rivers at all, just a couple of those all star games. What I saw from that small sample was an aggressive, attacking player with quickness and fearlessness. He's obviously a very talented player.

I also saw him get his lunch packed taking it in when he didn't have an opening being so aggressive, but it was an all star game so he gets a pass for effort, and those games really show us nothing.

He will likely struggle to finish against the next level of defenders early, almost all do. He ain't in HS anymore...

We will see how he reacts and finishes against defenders as quick and stronger, (Strickland?)...Long 6'8 help defenders, (Barnes?), springy 6'11 shot blockers, (Henson?). and a seven foot anchor in the post (Zeller?)

Just feelin' a little froggy today ;)

[Duvall]

next level of defenders early, almost all do. He ain't in HS anymore...

We will see how he reacts and finishes against defenders as quick and stronger, (Strickland?)...Long 6'8 help defenders, (Barnes?), springy 6'11 shot blockers, (Henson?). and a seven foot anchor in the post (Zeller?)


Based on the defensive efforts of those same UNC defenders against Nolan Smith and Seth Curry last season, my guess is that it won't present much of an issue for Rivers.

[ChicagoHeel]

Based on the defensive efforts of those same UNC defenders against Nolan Smith and Seth Curry last season, my guess is that it won't present much of an issue for Rivers.

While those two certainly had a couple of very good games against us, overall we held Duke well below its normal FG% and 3P% even if you include the blowout in the ACC tournament. As much as UNC's defense gets derided here, our problem last year was not defense. We were a very solid defensive team (virtually the same as Duke's based on Kenpom) and there is every reason to expect that it will improve next year. I think it is safe to say that one of the toughest defenses Rivers will face next year will be UNC's. And some of his antics that are being discussed in this thread are likely going to add to the pressure. Maybe he will be able to play through it, after all he is extremely talented, but given the expectations that come with his ranking and playing at Duke, if I were the coaching staff I would advise him to tone it down. You don't want to be someone opposing fan bases love to hate before you've even played a conference game.

[OldPhiKap]

The "son of a coach" argument on chemistry actually doesn't resonate well with us Carolina fans after the Larry Drew years, :)

Danny Ferry
Bobby Hurley
Chris Collins
Mike Dunleavy

It's worked pretty well for us. I think Carolina got a bad egg from an otherwise good source.


Edit to add: ChicagoHeel's post is spot-on, btw.

[Duvall]

While those two certainly had a couple of very good games against us, overall we held Duke well below its normal FG% and 3P% even if you include the blowout in the ACC tournament. As much as UNC's defense gets derided here, our problem last year was not defense. We were a very solid defensive team (virtually the same as Duke's based on Kenpom) and there is every reason to expect that it will improve next year.

I don't doubt that this will be true for UNC's overall defense. But their ability to guard opposing backcourts was inconsistent at best, and it will not surprise if Rivers is able to exploit that weakness next season.


And some of his antics that are being discussed in this thread are likely going to add to the pressure. Maybe he will be able to play through it, after all he is extremely talented, but given the expectations that come with his ranking and playing at Duke, if I were the coaching staff I would advise him to tone it down. You don't want to be someone opposing fan bases love to hate before you've even played a conference game.

I doubt it matters - opposing fan bases were going to hate him no matter what. If Rivers wanted to be ignored he could have gone to Florida; if he wanted the media to protect him he could have gone to UNC. Instead he chose Duke.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Based on the defensive efforts of those same UNC defenders against Nolan Smith and Seth Curry last season, my guess is that it won't present much of an issue for Rivers.

Well....Rivers is not a Senior All-American or a transfer Soph that had spent a year with the program either...just sayin'

[Wheat/"/"/"]

.........I thiink Carolina got a bad egg from an otherwise good source.


Agreed...both programs have historically done very well with coaches sons as players and teammates.

[Duvall]

Well....Rivers is not a Senior All-American or a transfer Soph that had spent a year with the program either...just sayin'

No, but he is the #2 ranked incoming freshman in the country. Recent players in that spot include Kyrie Irving, John Wall, Michael Beasley and Kevin Durant.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

No, but he is the #2 ranked incoming freshman in the country. Recent players in that spot include Kyrie Irving, John Wall, Michael Beasley and Kevin Durant.

....and Harrison Barnes:)

[Duvall]

....and Harrison Barnes:)

It's entirely possible that Rivers could emulate Barnes and have a fairly disappointing freshman season. But the odds are still on his side.

[MCFinARL]

It's entirely possible that Rivers could emulate Barnes and have a fairly disappointing freshman season. But the odds are still on his side.

Well, in fairness to Harrison Barnes, he had a fine second half of the season. The disappointment of the first half might have been from a combination of factors--1) sometimes the college game really does take an adjustment, even for stars; 2) the expectations for Barnes were ridiculously high; 3) like the whole team, he looked a lot better after Kendall Marshall took over at point guard.

[sagegrouse]

Well, in fairness to Harrison Barnes, he had a fine second half of the season. The disappointment of the first half might have been from a combination of factors--1) sometimes the college game really does take an adjustment, even for stars; 2) the expectations for Barnes were ridiculously high; 3) like the whole team, he looked a lot better after Kendall Marshall took over at point guard.

Forward can be a hard position to show one's stuff. You don't always -- or even very often -- get the ball on an offensive set, and you don't get the easy goals around the basket. HB did better with Kendall Marshall handling the ball, but he was also much less passive towards the end of the season.

sagegrouse

[Wheat/"/"/"]

It's entirely possible that Rivers could emulate Barnes and have a fairly disappointing freshman season. But the odds are still on his side.


I don't think HB's season was disappointing at all. He's been a model student, actually seems pretty humble and confident(for a star player) to me. I haven't seen any trash talk from him equal to what I hear is coming from Rivers. HB's well spoken and has represented UNC in a manner that has gathered him quite a bit of respect.
He also led the team to the elite 8 and was ACC rookie of the year.

As a player, he did have to take some time to adjust to the increase in the quality of play from HS, which is what I am expecting to see from Rivers as well.

He will probably play through the learning curve and become a star, and this conversation will be moot.

So I know "SubZero" can play, lots of smart basketball people say so and made him the#1 recruit for a reason. But I agree with others in the thread that think his play should do some talking first, or he runs the risk of becoming "DudZero" to many at the first sign of struggle.

[Duvall]

I don't think HB's season was disappointing at all. He's been a model student, actually seems pretty humble and confident(for a star player) to me.

Harrison Barnes is humble, studious and hard-working, and no player in America works harder to help his school's sports information office let every reporter in the country know it.


So I know "SubZero" can play, lots of smart basketball people say so and made him the#1 recruit for a reason. But I agree with others in the thread that think his play should do some talking first, or he runs the risk of becoming "DudZero" to many at the first sign of struggle.

I don't doubt it - that's just part of being a Duke basketball player. If Rivers wanted the media to bend over backwards to justify and explain away a limp start to his career, he should have gone to UNC.

[77devil]

I don't think HB's season was disappointing at all. He's been a model student, actually seems pretty humble and confident(for a star player) to me. I haven't seen any trash talk from him equal to what I hear is coming from Rivers. HB's well spoken and has represented UNC in a manner that has gathered him quite a bit of respect.
He also led the team to the elite 8 and was ACC rookie of the year.

As a player, he did have to take some time to adjust to the increase in the quality of play from HS, which is what I am expecting to see from Rivers as well.

He will probably play through the learning curve and become a star, and this conversation will be moot.

So I know "SubZero" can play, lots of smart basketball people say so and made him the#1 recruit for a reason. But I agree with others in the thread that think his play should do some talking first, or he runs the risk of becoming "DudZero" to many at the first sign of struggle.

Guess it must be off season for fishing in Boca Grande. What's your take on UNC football?

[MCFinARL]

Harrison Barnes is humble, studious and hard-working, and no player in America works harder to help his school's sports information office let every reporter in the country know it.

Oh, snap!

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Guess it must be off season for fishing in Boca Grande. What's your take on UNC football?

Tarpon season is winding down...thankfully its been super busy year.

Football sucks. I don't pay much attention to football anywhere.

But from an institutional standpoint, I say fire everyone that even smelled of wrongdoing, and do the real work of making sure the the football culture improves.

Back on topic...To me, HB seems to be a steady, calculating, mature, person and player trying to prepare himself for a career in the NBA. But i've never met him...

It seems Rivers is becoming defined as a cocky, trash talking kid before he's ever played a college game. That may not be true, he could just be confident and outgoing and people/media are looking for angles to write and discuss. The spotlight for stars is glaring and not always fair.

_I've never meet him either so what do I know? That's easy...nothing.

[_Gary]

I know we are in for a long year when Wheat is posting this much in the off season. Over the course of the last 15 or so years that I've been posting and reading DBR, I've noticed one very consistent truth. When Wheat is quiet and not posting, it's because he believes/knows UNC is going to have a down year. Nothing wrong with that and I'm not gigging him on account of that. B-U-T... When Wheat posts a lot, especially in the off-season, it's because he's very confident UNC is going to have a huge year - and the kicker is he's usually right.

Admittedly, one doesn't have to be a rocket scientist to know UNC is beyond loaded this year and should be the prohibitive favorites to win it all. Seriously. That's not an anti-woof or anything. I'm just stating the obvious. But I know it's gonna be a long summer and fall when our UNC friends come on as strong as Wheat has recently. Get ready fellow Duke fans. We're going to be hearing a lot of crowing this upcoming year. Let's just hope they have to eat some crow before it's all said and done too. :p

Gary

[Wheat/"/"/"]

. ... Over the course of the last 15 or so years that I've been posting and reading DBR, I've noticed one very consistent truth. When Wheat is quiet and not posting, it's because he believes/knows UNC is going to have a down year. Gary

Not true, and that accusation has been disproved before. Since the mid 90's, I've been around in good times and bad for UNC, and absent in good times and bad for UNC.

I've only made a few posts the past few days. None the past couple of months, that I recall.

I post when I have time, and I am interested in something. But I understand it sounds good on a Duke board to rag on the UNC guy, so it's all good.

Trying to stay on topic, personalities are good for the college game, and Rivers seems to have one, along with considerable skills. I'll just sit back and see how it goes because that's what fans do.

[_Gary]

Not true, and that accusation has been disproved before.

We'll agree to disagree, Wheat. But no worries because truth be known, I'm not against you nor do I dislike you in spite of what you may think. But I do think you are a normal human being and a normal sports fan who does have some ebb and flow to your posting, which is precipitated by the ups and downs of your team. Everyone is that way so I'm not accusing you of being a fair weather fan. I just know you mirror a UNC fan in my family who I've had to "live" with for 30 years now (married into the family, not blood). When UNC looks to be really strong and up its amazing how much more this guy is willing to bring up the topic of college bball in general when we are together. But let the team be down and he's silent. And again, that's not an abnormal thing. It's just normal fan behavior when you are dealing with rivals. But I do find you to be very much like him. Just saying... ;)

As for Rivers - in an attempt to be OT and not derail the thread - I do cringe just a tad with Austin's woofing. Don't get me wrong, I love guys with confidence that borders on cockiness (ala Christian). But I'm just not positive that Austin, at 6'4", is going to be able to dominate like he did on the high school level. It's just so much tougher when you don't have major height as a shooting guard. It's not that he's a shrimp at his position. Not at all. But I just don't see the blazing speed or freakish hops from him that would make me feel he could really dominate. He may and I hope he does, but I'm not ready to anoint him as a huge star just yet. He's got some great hesitation and crossover moves. No doubt about that. And it certainly can free him up from a defender. But once he gets by one man on the wing he'll have to contend with much stronger and taller defenders and I've not seen enough of him to make me think he will be a really strong finisher at the rim. A big key will be Austin being able to consistently hit the outside shot and drop off passes for easy buckets. If he can demonstrate those two things on the college level, then his ability to shake defenders will be truly effective and powerful.

Go Duke!

[mikegismynewhero]

i remember watching "subzero" during one of his nationally televised high school games...this was before he had declared to duke but after he decommitted from florida...neither myself nor my brother were fans of how he played...it was like when kobe scored 81 points in one game...where is the team effort? he just didnt seem to have a duke player mentality on the court..it seems its more about him than the team..i hope i turn out to be wrong but im not holding my breath...

[Duvall]

i remember watching "subzero" during one of his nationally televised high school games...this was before he had declared to duke but after he decommitted from florida...neither myself nor my brother were fans of how he played...it was like when kobe scored 81 points in one game...where is the team effort? he just didnt seem to have a duke player mentality on the court..it seems its more about him than the team..i hope i turn out to be wrong but im not holding my breath...

That probably explains the back-to-back state championships he didn't win.

Wait, no - check that.

[mikegismynewhero]

i didnt say he wasnt extremely talented in fact i compared him to 81 point kobe...im saying his attitude doesnt check right with me just yet...had the same feeling about mcroberts and king..and we know how they ended up....i had a feeling about nolan when i saw him play for the first time...it just happens to be the opposite of the feeling i have about austin..that said i do hope he comes in proves me wrong, plays solid defense, has good team chemistry, and maybe win a few games along the way

[COYS]

Tarpon season is winding down...thankfully its been super busy year.

Football sucks. I don't pay much attention to football anywhere.

But from an institutional standpoint, I say fire everyone that even smelled of wrongdoing, and do the real work of making sure the the football culture improves.

Back on topic...To me, HB seems to be a steady, calculating, mature, person and player trying to prepare himself for a career in the NBA. But i've never met him...

It seems Rivers is becoming defined as a cocky, trash talking kid before he's ever played a college game. That may not be true, he could just be confident and outgoing and people/media are looking for angles to write and discuss. The spotlight for stars is glaring and not always fair.

_I've never meet him either so what do I know? That's easy...nothing.

To be fair, Barnes had a few misteps that may have indicated that he was at least as cocky as many are portraying Austin. He made his own black falcon shirt and necklace before he ever stepped on the court, not to mention Skype-gate. Personally, this stuff doesn't bother me. These guys are kids and are learning, often the hard way, just how harsh the media spotlight can be. And who cares if they are cocky? I don't think any Duke fans would change anything about Laettner and he was probably twice as cocky as Austin and Barnes combined.

[JohnGalt]

Back on topic...To me, HB seems to be a steady, calculating, mature, person and player trying to prepare himself for a career in the NBA. But i've never met him...

Was this meant to be tongue in cheek?
:D

[Mike Corey]

If only Harrison Barnes were humble, he'd be perfect. Just ask Harrison.

He is supremely confident that it won't be long before he's supplanted Air Jordan as the best-selling and best-loved brand in the world.

Basketball is merely a conduit. And as with any growing business, he needs a good PR team to tell the right story.

Austin Rivers is so freakin' obsessed and in love with basketball--and his ability to be better than anyone else at it--that he is consumed with the game. He is absolutely cocky. His is a personality that Duke and Coach K has honed extremely well before; there is no reason to think K can't mold a team with a brash, budding superstar again.

Mike Dunleavy used to tell people his favorite pick-up line was, "Hi. I'm Mike Dunleavy."

Christian Laettner was the GOAT. He knew it, and knew no one else could do anything about it.

J.J. Redick wasn't shy about his abilities either. It happens.

These are teenagers who have the world at their fingertips, and they can do things with it that have them thinking big. It's hard not to admire that, in a way.

Austin Rivers is by all accounts a great teammate and a great young man. He comes with a fair amount of swagger. He can back it up, too.

[uh_no]

If only Harrison Barnes were humble, he'd be perfect. Just ask Harrison.

He is supremely confident that it won't be long before he's supplanted Air Jordan as the best-selling and best-loved brand in the world.


The Jordan/Barnes thing makes me not like Barnes. Tar Heel or not, MJ was one of the greatest players ever in the game of basketball. HB is pretty good, but MJ, he is not. If 20 years down the road he has 6 rings, then I'll come back here and eat my words.

Not being around during the MJ days (or not really able to remember the early times of his career) I think MJ wanted to be great because he wanted to be the best basketball player in history, and then he used that to become famous. Harrison Barnes wants to be famous, so he works to become a good player to meet that end. THere is a subtle difference. For MJ, the goal was being a great basketball player, for HB, its being popular. I hope he grows out of it....and someday he'll catch on that he will likely never be as good or as popular as jordan

[oldnavy]

HB is just as cocky if not more so than Austin Rivers, but their personalities are different and so they come across as different.

HB is so image conscience and calculating that it almost painful to watch him because you feel like he is about to implode at times. Austin is more open and off the cuff.

The differences are even apparent in their style of play. From what I have seen, Austin is a little more wide open and aggressive. HB is conservative and non-spontaneous for the most part.

I expect that both players as they mature will move to the center in how they present themselves and how their game evolves.

[uh_no]

Austin is more open and off the cuff.


He keeps his opinions close to his vest but wears his emotions on his sleeve. HB on the other hand always gets caught with his pants down.

[MCFinARL]

He keeps his opinions close to his vest but wears his emotions on his sleeve. HB on the other hand always gets caught with his pants down.

Looks like this thread is tailor-made for a pun fest.

[MCFinARL]

The Jordan/Barnes thing makes me not like Barnes. Tar Heel or not, MJ was one of the greatest players ever in the game of basketball. HB is pretty good, but MJ, he is not. If 20 years down the road he has 6 rings, then I'll come back here and eat my words.

Not being around during the MJ days (or not really able to remember the early times of his career) I think MJ wanted to be great because he wanted to be the best basketball player in history, and then he used that to become famous. Harrison Barnes wants to be famous, so he works to become a good player to meet that end. THere is a subtle difference. For MJ, the goal was being a great basketball player, for HB, its being popular. I hope he grows out of it....and someday he'll catch on that he will likely never be as good or as popular as jordan

This is an interesting observation, and it may say something about the changes in our culture between MJ's generation and now. In a celebrity-obsessed society where people like the Kardashians can make "careers" out of being famous and dating other celebrities, it may be a lot easier for even very talented kids to focus on the rewards of fame more than the rewards of accomplishment. Not that we weren't already headed this way when MJ was coming up, but it's gotten a lot worse since then.

[ChicagoHeel]

HB is just as cocky if not more so than Austin Rivers, but their personalities are different and so they come across as different.

HB is so image conscience and calculating that it almost painful to watch him because you feel like he is about to implode at times. Austin is more open and off the cuff.

The differences are even apparent in their style of play. From what I have seen, Austin is a little more wide open and aggressive. HB is conservative and non-spontaneous for the most part.

I expect that both players as they mature will move to the center in how they present themselves and how their game evolves.

Not to highjack this thread, but I wonder if one of you could put together a list or summary of actions that have led you to believe that HB is arrogant. The Skype acceptance is certainly one good piece of evidence in your favor, but aside from that he has never struck me as exceedingly arrogant. Please don't raise that "story" about him googling himself in class as that story was nothing more than someone's tweet.

Yes, he is confident, as all the top talents are, but is he exceedingly so? Does his behavior display an exaggerated sense of his own abilities? He had a very business-like approach on and off the court; I have no recollection of him talking trash or being demonstrative in a manner deragotory towards his opponents. Nor can I recall any of that type of behavior off the court. He was very team-oriented in his interviews, had a reputation as a hard-working teammate and was a constructive presence in the locker room. He is quick to admit (http://northcarolina.scout.com/2/1081370.html) there are aspects of his game he needs to work on this summer (e.g. ball handling), which seems to indicate that he is grounded and aware of his limitations. Yes, he appears meticulous in terms of planning for his post-UNC career and building a brand, but isn't planning for the future something to be valued in a college student? I'm sure it's partially a product of my own bias, but I just don't see him as arrogant.

FYI, I'm not trying to convince anyone on this board to like HB; I just don't think the cocky label fits him.

[JRH1010]

We will see how Austin plays out next year, but my take is he will be more like HB and less like Kyrie. Kyrie had the good fortune of Nolan and Kyle as teammates. Austin will not have that advantage. Doesnt make him less of a baller, he is just in a less fortunate situation.

[oldnavy]

Not to highjack this thread, but I wonder if one of you could put together a list or summary of actions that have led you to believe that HB is arrogant. The Skype acceptance is certainly one good piece of evidence in your favor, but aside from that he has never struck me as exceedingly arrogant. Please don't raise that "story" about him googling himself in class as that story was nothing more than someone's tweet.

Yes, he is confident, as all the top talents are, but is he exceedingly so? Does his behavior display an exaggerated sense of his own abilities? He had a very business-like approach on and off the court; I have no recollection of him talking trash or being demonstrative in a manner deragotory towards his opponents. Nor can I recall any of that type of behavior off the court. He was very team-oriented in his interviews, had a reputation as a hard-working teammate and was a constructive presence in the locker room. He is quick to admit (http://northcarolina.scout.com/2/1081370.html) there are aspects of his game he needs to work on this summer (e.g. ball handling), which seems to indicate that he is grounded and aware of his limitations. Yes, he appears meticulous in terms of planning for his post-UNC career and building a brand, but isn't planning for the future something to be valued in a college student? I'm sure it's partially a product of my own bias, but I just don't see him as arrogant.

FYI, I'm not trying to convince anyone on this board to like HB; I just don't think the cocky label fits him.

I see a cocky/arrogant side to HB. I do not find it overly offensive however. And I am not really interested in making a list, so I will leave that for someone else. Besides, I do not know HB at all so I cannot really form an educated opinion of him. I suspect he is a pretty good kid.

For me it is not that he is overtly cocky or arrogant, it is how..... “contrived” he comes across. He seems so worried about image that he appears phony or unnatural to me. Compare HB to John Henson. Henson laughs at himself, and seems to truly enjoy playing the game. Henson just seems to be enjoying the ride and taking nothing for granted. Barnes IMO seems to be going through a process to get to the next level. Nothing wrong with that, it is just that his approach is not very endearing.

[kong123]

Compare HB to John Henson. Henson laughs at himself, and seems to truly enjoy playing the game. Henson just seems to be enjoying the ride and taking nothing for granted.

Its funny, I remember reading a few guys on the board saying that JH was too cocky and full of himself. I guess it depends how jaded you are!

[sagegrouse]

Not to highjack this thread, but I wonder if one of you could put together a list or summary of actions that have led you to believe that HB is arrogant. The Skype acceptance is certainly one good piece of evidence in your favor, but aside from that he has never struck me as exceedingly arrogant. Please don't raise that "story" about him googling himself in class as that story was nothing more than someone's tweet.

Yes, he is confident, as all the top talents are, but is he exceedingly so? Does his behavior display an exaggerated sense of his own abilities? He had a very business-like approach on and off the court; I have no recollection of him talking trash or being demonstrative in a manner deragotory towards his opponents. Nor can I recall any of that type of behavior off the court. He was very team-oriented in his interviews, had a reputation as a hard-working teammate and was a constructive presence in the locker room. He is quick to admit (http://northcarolina.scout.com/2/1081370.html) there are aspects of his game he needs to work on this summer (e.g. ball handling), which seems to indicate that he is grounded and aware of his limitations. Yes, he appears meticulous in terms of planning for his post-UNC career and building a brand, but isn't planning for the future something to be valued in a college student? I'm sure it's partially a product of my own bias, but I just don't see him as arrogant.

FYI, I'm not trying to convince anyone on this board to like HB; I just don't think the cocky label fits him.

Chicago Heel: He's probably a good kid, but he comes across as being full of himself.

Exhibit A was Skype. Here is Exhibit B: Barnes's quotes in the UNC presser (http://tarheelblue.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/041811aaa.html)announcing that Barnes was skipping the draft.


"As an 18-year old, I'm in the early stages of my life journey," Barnes says. "I'm honored and blessed for the chance to play in the NBA. (A) And because of my family, teachers, passion, and work, I have the ultimate dream of one day playing and experiencing a fulfilling career in the NBA.

"Opportunities, both beneficial and life changing,(B) can seem to make the next phase of my journey an easy decision. But I am a student-athlete at the University of North Carolina. I'm here to experience college life, grow as a person, receive a quality education, and be part of the greatest basketball family in college sports.

"The experiences I've enjoyed on and off the court will be invaluable. These experiences will help fuel my journey in the NBA and beyond. (C)

"I look forward to meeting the challenging journey in the NBA, (D) but my decision on November 13, 2009, still holds true. I'm focused on being a student-athlete. And my decision is to continue this part of my journey at the University of North Carolina."

A. Uh, HB, you're returning. Why do you begin by talking about the NBA.

B. "Opportunities, both beneficial and life-changing,...." What's this mean?

C. Back to the NBA? HB, you're staying in college.

D. More NBA? What's with that?

Statement should have read: "I am returning to the U. of North Carolina to continue my education and win a NCAA championship. I have the greatest teammates and coaches in the world. The NBA is for the future." E-n-d o-f s-t-o-r-y. That's probably what the UNC SID would suggest.

The lengthy quotes read like he wrote it himself and resisted all efforts to edit it into something less grandiose and less focused on him.

sagegrouse

[oldnavy]

Its funny, I remember reading a few guys on the board saying that JH was too cocky and full of himself. I guess it depends how jaded you are!

Yes, I guess it does. I am about as jaded as they come and yet I find myself liking John Henson. He did do a little smack talking, but so what. When one of your favorite players of all time is JJ, you have to put up with some smack talking from opponents, otherwise you look silly trying to make an argument for or against others.

[sagegrouse]

Yes, I guess it does. I am about as jaded as they come and yet I find myself liking John Henson. He did do a little smack talking, but so what. When one of your favorite players of all time is JJ, you have to put up with some smack talking from opponents, otherwise you look silly trying to make an argument for or against others.

Besides, JH's sister decided to play basketball at Duke and will enroll this year, so doesn't that make him family?

sagegrouse

[Indoor66]

Besides, JH's sister decided to play basketball at Duke and will enroll this year, so doesn't that make him family?

sagegrouse

Or the crazy brother down the road! :cool:

[-jk]

For me, the defining moment for Barnes will forever be the "I'm that dude" t-shirt he sported.

But they're kids: I generally cut them a bit of slack so long as they stay (mostly) on the up-and-up.

-jk

[uh_no]

I see a cocky/arrogant side to HB. I do not find it overly offensive however. And I am not really interested in making a list, so I will leave that for someone else. Besides, I do not know HB at all so I cannot really form an educated opinion of him. I suspect he is a pretty good kid.

For me it is not that he is overtly cocky or arrogant, it is how..... “contrived” he comes across. He seems so worried about image that he appears phony or unnatural to me. Compare HB to John Henson. Henson laughs at himself, and seems to truly enjoy playing the game. Henson just seems to be enjoying the ride and taking nothing for granted. Barnes IMO seems to be going through a process to get to the next level. Nothing wrong with that, it is just that his approach is not very endearing.

The whole Decision debacle is one thing. Afterwards, it became pretty darn clear that he was set on going to carolina the whole time. He thinks he's the next michael jordan, per his sister, he listed himself as 2" shorter than he really was in high school so he could be jordan's height, His middle name is Jordan (yes he had no say in that....) but pretty much there was no way in hell he was ever going anywhere other than north carolina. So in the end, the "decision" was just a huge show to promote harrison barnes. It would have been that without the twitter crap, but that part simply proved that it was a "look at me I'm so important that just a regular press conference is below me"....

If that doesn't say 'self important' to you....then I don't know what would

[Newton_14]

Not to highjack this thread, but I wonder if one of you could put together a list or summary of actions that have led you to believe that HB is arrogant.

Here is a list of items that I recall. Judge for yourself.

1. Skype Announcement- Holds grand press conference with the Logo's of the 5 College's on the table. Tells all 5 coaches to be at their computer at 4pm to see if they receive a skype call from him. He does not call the other coaches to let them know he has chosen another school.

2. Black Falcon- Shows up on campus wearing a large gold necklace that reads Black Falcon, along with a shirt that reads Black Falcon promoting the nickname that ESPN chose for him except that he dictated to ESPN the terms of what the nickname could entail

3. I'm That Dude- Shows up for the first Summer League game in a shirt that reads "I'm That Dude"

4. Self Googling- Per classmates in an article in the school paper, regularly sits in class googling himself over an over. Link: http://www.dailytarheel.com/index.ph...bruary_18_2011

5. Calling Jeff Goodman: Calls Jeff Goodman after the 13th game of the season, and after he has gotten off to a very slow start for someone who was selected as pre-season 1st Team AA, and asks the following questions:
1. Did I think he still had a shot of being an All-American?
2. Did he still have a chance of being the national Player of the Year?
3. Did I think the North Carolina Tar Heels could cut down the nets?
Link: http://msn.foxsports.com/collegebasketball/story/harrison-barnes-has-unfinished-business-at-north-carolina-041811

6. Returning Statement: Writes long drawn out, way over the top press release to simply inform folks that he was still a college player. (Unless your situation is changing and you are leaving, what is there, really, to announce?)
Link: http://confidentwriting.com/2008/12/...se-long-words/

[sagegrouse]

Here is a list of items that I recall. Judge for yourself.

1. Skype Announcement- Holds grand press conference with the Logo's of the 5 College's on the table. Tells all 5 coaches to be at their computer at 4pm to see if they receive a skype call from him. He does not call the other coaches to let them know he has chosen another school.

2. Black Falcon- Shows up on campus wearing a large gold necklace that reads Black Falcon, along with a shirt that reads Black Falcon promoting the nickname that ESPN chose for him except that he dictated to ESPN the terms of what the nickname could entail

3. I'm That Dude- Shows up for the first Summer League game in a shirt that reads "I'm That Dude"

4. Self Googling- Per classmates in an article in the school paper, regularly sits in class googling himself over an over. Link: http://www.dailytarheel.com/index.ph...bruary_18_2011

5. Calling Jeff Goodman: Calls Jeff Goodman after the 13th game of the season, and after he has gotten off to a very slow start for someone who was selected as pre-season 1st Team AA, and asks the following questions:
1. Did I think he still had a shot of being an All-American?
2. Did he still have a chance of being the national Player of the Year?
3. Did I think the North Carolina Tar Heels could cut down the nets?
Link: http://msn.foxsports.com/collegebasketball/story/harrison-barnes-has-unfinished-business-at-north-carolina-041811

6. Returning Statement: Writes long drawn out, way over the top press release to simply inform folks that he was still a college player. (Unless your situation is changing and you are leaving, what is there, really, to announce?)
Link: http://confidentwriting.com/2008/12/...se-long-words/

I remember my time in college, and some of the most impressive people acted like they were 30, not 20 (or 18). Looking back on it, it was really an awful act. It is better to act your age until you have really accomplished something (and maybe even then, still act your age). While I have given Tar Heel HB a tough time (no worse than Tar Heel Psycho T, of course), I think he is probably a good kid that would be more appealing with some humility in his public persona.

As a contrast (and not to say that this is a Blue Devil-Tar Heel matter), read this section of the article from Kyrie's intro press conference in Cleveland:


Dressed sharply in a tailored gray suit accented with a pale blue tie, the fresh-faced Irving handled queries about expectations, the league's labor issues and other topics with the ease of a seasoned veteran. As he does on the court with the ball in his hands, the 19-year-old ran the show.

"He takes his time and makes it look easy," said Cavaliers general manager Chris Grant, who shared the stage with Irving, Thompson and Scott. "I was saying to myself, he's a lot better than I am."


But while Kyrie acted with poise and maturity, he was still a kid. But, of course, what's with that "pale blue tie?" Do we have some re-education to do?

sagegrouse

[uh_no]

I think he is probably a good kid that would be more appealing with some humility in his public persona.


Just because someone is a 'good person' doesn't mean they can't be a tool, or the kind of person with whom you wouldn't want to have a beer.

I think this is spot on. He hasn't taken bribes or gotten into any real trouble, but he has a rather inflated opinion of himself (deserved or not) and doesn't show an ounce of humility. That's not the kind of person I have much respect for.

[BD80]

Danny Ferry
Bobby Hurley
Chris Collins
Mike Dunleavy

It's worked pretty well for us. I think Carolina got a bad egg from an otherwise good source. ...

Jeff Capel

But Jason didn't work out for unc. Don't think the source matters. unc sucks eggs


Looks like this thread is tailor-made for a pun fest.

That should sew things up. Or is this knot the place?

[uh_no]

Jeff Capel


That should sew things up. Or is this knot the place?

I have stitches in my side from laughing at this!

[oldnavy]

Jeff Capel

But Jason didn't work out for unc. Don't think the source matters. unc sucks eggs



That should sew things up. Or is this knot the place?

That is a good one!!

Look, I don't care for HB and I am not sure I would if he were a Dukie either. Again, he is hard for me to watch and enjoy because he is wound so tight and so worried about making a mistake, and saying the right thing and doing the right thing. Now, all those are good things, but when it seems to take as much effort as it does for HB to do them, well it seems phony to me. It is almost like he wants EVERYONE to like him and isn't being himself. To contrast, I was very torn with Tyler Hansbrough, I had a hard time not liking him and I tried really hard. I hated the way the game was called around him, but that kid was all in on every play, he was as goofy as they come (very different personality), and yet amazing to watch. So this isn't a UNC - Duke thing for me.

Truth be told, I doubt HB will be on the list of top 5 favorite players for many UNC fans after he goes pro next year either.

[kong123]

Look, I don't care for HB and I am not sure I would if he were a Dukie either. Again, he is hard for me to watch and enjoy because he is wound so tight and so worried about making a mistake, and saying the right thing and doing the right thing. Now, all those are good things, but when it seems to take as much effort as it does for HB to do them, well it seems phony to me. It is almost like he wants EVERYONE to like him and isn't being himself.

This has been my criticism of HB as well. He isn't smooth or natural, on or off the court. His jump shot is pure, but his mechanical actions on and off the court have always bothered me. He always seems pleased with himself when he dishes out one of those politically correct BS answers to the press. I don't know whether or not he will get better at hiding all the effort he puts into his persona, but until he does he will always seem like a robot to me.

Oh, and if he wins a national championship this year and gets player of the year, he will be remembered as one of the best at UNC simply because he came back to school for one more year. How he does in the NBA will also determine how a fan will feel about him.

[MCFinARL]

I have stitches in my side from laughing at this!

It's a nice little break from needling HB.

[oldnavy]

This has been my criticism of HB as well. He isn't smooth or natural, on or off the court. His jump shot is pure, but his mechanical actions on and off the court have always bothered me. He always seems pleased with himself when he dishes out one of those politically correct BS answers to the press. I don't know whether or not he will get better at hiding all the effort he puts into his persona, but until he does he will always seem like a robot to me.

Oh, and if he wins a national championship this year and gets player of the year, he will be remembered as one of the best at UNC simply because he came back to school for one more year. How he does in the NBA will also determine how a fan will feel about him.

Why does this matter? How a Duke player does in the NBA has little to no bearing on how I feel about them. Jason Williams is one of, if not my favorite Duke player of all time and he basically did not have an NBA career.

Not sure I follow the NBA connection...

[COYS]

Why does this matter? How a Duke player does in the NBA has little to no bearing on how I feel about them. Jason Williams is one of, if not my favorite Duke player of all time and he basically did not have an NBA career.

Not sure I follow the NBA connection...

I would imagine the same would be true of UNC fans and Hansbrough. Granted, he had a solid year this year and will probably have a lengthy NBA career, but it is unlikely to be spectacular. Does that make him any less revered in UNC fan circles? I doubt it.

[Jderf]

i remember watching "subzero" during one of his nationally televised high school games...this was before he had declared to duke but after he decommitted from florida...neither myself nor my brother were fans of how he played...it was like when kobe scored 81 points in one game...where is the team effort? he just didnt seem to have a duke player mentality on the court..it seems its more about him than the team..i hope i turn out to be wrong but im not holding my breath...

Don't you suspect that Austin's lack of "team effort" might have been exactly how his high school coach told him to play? I remember reading somewhere that Austin's team was nowhere near the same skill level as him (which makes sense), and that he was relied upon for a lot of offense. I highly doubt that Austin would hog the ball all season long unless his coach had instructed him to do so.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

But Jason didn't work out for unc. Don't think the source matters. unc sucks eggs


Jason Capel started all four years at UNC and went to one final four. He was a quality kid that never got into trouble, played hard and represented the school well, through some generally tough seasons and coaching adjustments.

He's currently the youngest coach in Div 1 at App State.

Most UNC fans are just fine counting him as a successful addition to the program.

[yancem]

As for Rivers - in an attempt to be OT and not derail the thread - I do cringe just a tad with Austin's woofing. Don't get me wrong, I love guys with confidence that borders on cockiness (ala Christian). But I'm just not positive that Austin, at 6'4", is going to be able to dominate like he did on the high school level. It's just so much tougher when you don't have major height as a shooting guard. It's not that he's a shrimp at his position. Not at all. But I just don't see the blazing speed or freakish hops from him that would make me feel he could really dominate. He may and I hope he does, but I'm not ready to anoint him as a huge star just yet. He's got some great hesitation and crossover moves. No doubt about that. And it certainly can free him up from a defender. But once he gets by one man on the wing he'll have to contend with much stronger and taller defenders and I've not seen enough of him to make me think he will be a really strong finisher at the rim. A big key will be Austin being able to consistently hit the outside shot and drop off passes for easy buckets. If he can demonstrate those two things on the college level, then his ability to shake defenders will be truly effective and powerful.

Go Duke!

Seriously? 6'4" is very good size for a 2 guard at the college level. There aren't that many taller 2 guards in the ncaa's. Heck Dawkins is only 6'4" and he is likely going to start at the 3 this year so I don't see how size will be a factor in Rivers' success next season. As for the "blazing speed and freakish hops" part, have you seen him play? He's not Lawson fast but then again he isn't a pg. He's got plenty of speed for a 2 guard and some pretty impressive ups to go with his wheels. Not to mention a ridiculous first step, crossover and step back move.

I'm not saying he will be an instant star like Irving was, but he certainly has the physical tools do to so. We just have to see how he reacts mentally to the speed and strength of the college game. But speed and jumping ability are not even near my lists of concerns for Rivers.

[COYS]

But speed and jumping ability are not even near my lists of concerns for Rivers.

I'd even go one step farther and say that, from admittedly limited viewing consisting entirely of the All-Star games, Austin just might be the quickest guard in the incoming frosh class . . . at least if you limit it to his first few moves and his ballhandling. Myck Kabongo and Teague are super fast in the open court, but I'm not sure either of them have the quick first step or the ability to step back or weave through traffic that Austin has. Completely agree with Yancem that we won't be complaining about Austin's quickness with the ball next year.

[kong123]

Why does this matter? How a Duke player does in the NBA has little to no bearing on how I feel about them. Jason Williams is one of, if not my favorite Duke player of all time and he basically did not have an NBA career.

Not sure I follow the NBA connection...

I said that becoming successful in the NBA could affect how much fans like him. If he becomes incredibly successful and has a huge impact for many years, the UNC faithful will love him even more than they would if he simply played a few years and then left. I think this would be true of many collegiate fans. There are tons of fair-weather fans, you may not be one of them, but they exist.

[devildeac]

Jeff Capel

But Jason didn't work out for unc. Don't think the source matters. unc sucks eggs



That should sew things up. Or is this knot the place?


I have stitches in my side from laughing at this!

There you folks go again, stringing us along with statements tailor-made for the discussion.

[devildeac]

Jason Capel started all four years at UNC and went to one final four. He was a quality kid that never got into trouble, played hard and represented the school well, through some generally tough seasons and coaching adjustments.

He's currently the youngest coach in Div 1 at App State.

Most UNC fans are just fine counting him as a successful addition to the program.

And, just as the Crazies chanted one time when Jason came to play at CIS after Jeff
had graduated:

"Jeff was better"- clap,clap, clap/clap/clap.
:p

(I swear I have used that line before;). And recently, too.)

[darjum]

I said that becoming successful in the NBA could affect how much fans like him. If he becomes incredibly successful and has a huge impact for many years, the UNC faithful will love him even more than they would if he simply played a few years and then left. I think this would be true of many collegiate fans. There are tons of fair-weather fans, you may not be one of them, but they exist.

Very interesting. In 2005 you win a national championship and of that team five players went to the NBA: Sean May, Rashad McCants, Jawad Williams, Raymond Felton and Marvin Williams. Felton being clearly the best NBA player of the group. Therefore for "UNC faithful" like yourself, is Fleton the most beloved off of that team, just interested?

[Wheat/"/"/"]

And, just as the Crazies chanted one time when Jason came to play at CIS after Jeff
had graduated:

"Jeff was better"- clap,clap, clap/clap/clap.
:p

(I swear I have used that line before;). And recently, too.)

I remember hearing that one...it was pretty funny.

There's no problem with Austin talking a little trash, it's just usually better to show something first. He may think he already has with his stellar HS career.

If he can back it up, good for him.

There's a lot of animosity from Duke fans over HB and the precieved slight with the skype thing. I don't see the same concern from Kansas fans and they were in the runnning at the end too, right?

Deep breaths...let it go...heck you beat him two out of three last season:)

[darjum]

There's a lot of animosity from Duke fans over HB and the precieved slight with the skype thing. I don't see the same concern from Kansas fans and they were in the runnning at the end too, right?

I have a feeling the 2010 National Championship and UNC's 2010 campaign put rest to much of the "animosity" Duke fans felt towards the Black Falcons "Decision".

[uh_no]

I have a feeling the 2010 National Championship and UNC's 2010 campaign put rest to much of the "animosity" Duke fans felt towards the Black Falcons "Decision".

winning takes care of everything

[moonpie23]

winning takes care of everything

and misery for your hated rival adds luster to life !!! :)

[oldnavy]

I said that becoming successful in the NBA could affect how much fans like him. If he becomes incredibly successful and has a huge impact for many years, the UNC faithful will love him even more than they would if he simply played a few years and then left. I think this would be true of many collegiate fans. There are tons of fair-weather fans, you may not be one of them, but they exist.

I am not an NBA fan. As hard as I pull for the Devils, once they go to the NBA I do not follow them any longer. I probably could tell you where most of the Dukies are in the NBA just from reading this board and ESPN exposure.

My judgment of a Duke player is made while he is at Duke. If he does great in the NBA then wonderful. If he bombs out, then I am sorry, but it does not take anything away from how I feel about him.

As far as the NBA, I do get your point. I think the UNC fan base has more of an interest in a player's NBA legacy than most Duke fans have for former Dukies. I am sure this is a result of MJ doing so well in the league. UNC has benefitted tremendously from MJ and rightfully so. However, MJ is getting old like me and it won't be that much longer until his impact goes the way of Bill Russell's or Wilt's (it all ready has to some degree). Kids are going to ask who was MJ rather than be named after him like HB was. It is going to become more difficult to leverage MJ's brand for UNC. He will still have the NIKE thing, but that is no where near the same as remembering him as a player.

[Lord Ash]

I have a feeling the 2010 National Championship and UNC's 2010 campaign put rest to much of the "animosity" Duke fans felt towards the Black Falcons "Decision".

Ehhhh... there is still a LOT of hate aimed at Harry from Duke fans. Not sure there is anything that could happen that would really get rid of it.

[kong123]

However, MJ is getting old like me and it won't be that much longer until his impact goes the way of Bill Russell's or Wilt's (it all ready has to some degree). Kids are going to ask who was MJ rather than be named after him like HB was. It is going to become more difficult to leverage MJ's brand for UNC. He will still have the NIKE thing, but that is no where near the same as remembering him as a player.


I believe he will be a force for at least another decade. His clothing brand is still popular, he was featured in a video game within the last few years, and he is a current NBA owner. He still has a major presence in basketball and he always will. Now the effect it has on basketball recruiting will be debatable.

[oldnavy]

I believe he will be a force for at least another decade. His clothing brand is still popular, he was featured in a video game within the last few years, and he is a current NBA owner. He still has a major presence in basketball and he always will. Now the effect it has on basketball recruiting will be debatable.

No doubt he will be a force in pro basketball for a while, but I think the benefit to UNC is on the down slope. Maybe it is just wishful thinking.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Programs and coaches seem to be the biggest factor on most top recruits. Great former players bring attention, and when it comes down to signing day, kids might say whatever about childhood memories, but I think they look at who they will be playing with, their role, who can prepare them to make it as a pro, who can give them a chance to win a title and offer the most exposure.

That said, UNC probably does have some advantage with MJ, but i'd agree it's more about the potential future business connection than his star quality.

The really top flight guys know they need business connections after school, Duke benefits from this too, and i'm sure sells it to them, with a succesful alumni base in the real world to draw support from.

[Mike Corey]

There's a lot of animosity from Duke fans over HB and the precieved slight with the skype thing. I don't see the same concern from Kansas fans and they were in the runnning at the end too, right?

Deep breaths...let it go...heck you beat him two out of three last season:)

With all due respect, calling this a perceived slight and comparing it with Kansas' emotional reaction to Harry's theatrics is foolish.

The slight was more than perceived--it was legitimate. You don't say the things that were said to Coach K the night before the announcement without incurring the title of "slight" and you don't incur the wrath of the Kansas fan base when no one was under any impression whatsoever that said school was in contention.

Harrison Barnes went out of his way to make the Duke staff believe the announcement would be in Duke's favor; he then went out of his way to embarrass himself on national television.

I wonder where he got the idea from?

[Wheat/"/"/"]

With all due respect, calling this a perceived slight and comparing it with Kansas' emotional reaction to Harry's theatrics is foolish.

The slight was more than perceived--it was legitimate. You don't say the things that were said to Coach K the night before the announcement without incurring the title of "slight" and you don't incur the wrath of the Kansas fan base when no one was under any impression whatsoever that said school was in contention.

Harrison Barnes went out of his way to make the Duke staff believe the announcement would be in Duke's favor; he then went out of his way to embarrass himself on national television.

I wonder where he got the idea from?

I have no inside info on what was said to whom...it looked like the typical big recruiting battle from my seat...but if HB intentionally played Duke and coach K that would affect my opinion of his character.

[Duvall]

There's a lot of animosity from Duke fans over HB and the precieved slight with the skype thing. I don't see the same concern from Kansas fans and they were in the runnning at the end too, right?

Since the Day of Skype Kansas has: fired its head football coach, seen its athletic department investigated by the IRS and FBI, seen several athletic department employees plead guilty and go to prison, seen its athletic director resign in disgrace, and seen heavily favored top-seeded basketball teams lose to Northern Iowa and Virginia Commonwealth in back to back seasons.

Barnes is not one of their major concerns.

[sagegrouse]

Since the Day of Skype Kansas has: fired its head football coach, seen its athletic department investigated by the IRS and FBI, seen several athletic department employees plead guilty and go to prison, seen its athletic director resign in disgrace, and seen heavily favored top-seeded basketball teams lose to Northern Iowa and Virginia Commonwealth in back to back seasons.

Barnes is not one of their major concerns.

IIRC (and there is always a first time) on the day of Barnes's announcement, Bill Self was asked if he were going to tune in. "I would," he said, "if I thought it was going to be good news." In other words, Kansas was not expecting Barnes to come there.

sagegrouse

[BD80]

Jason Capel started all four years at UNC and went to one final four. He was a quality kid that never got into trouble, played hard and represented the school well, through some generally tough seasons and coaching adjustments.

He's currently the youngest coach in Div 1 at App State.

Most UNC fans are just fine counting him as a successful addition to the program.

I seem to recall there being a great deal of heelish sentiment that wasn't so favorable. In fact, it was so bad that Jason had ill feelings toward the fanbase, if not the entire program.

[_Gary]

Seriously? 6'4" is very good size for a 2 guard at the college level. There aren't that many taller 2 guards in the ncaa's. Heck Dawkins is only 6'4" and he is likely going to start at the 3 this year so I don't see how size will be a factor in Rivers' success next season. As for the "blazing speed and freakish hops" part, have you seen him play? He's not Lawson fast but then again he isn't a pg. He's got plenty of speed for a 2 guard and some pretty impressive ups to go with his wheels. Not to mention a ridiculous first step, crossover and step back move.

I'm not saying he will be an instant star like Irving was, but he certainly has the physical tools do to so. We just have to see how he reacts mentally to the speed and strength of the college game. But speed and jumping ability are not even near my lists of concerns for Rivers.

6'4" is good, maybe even very good, height for a college 2. But if you'll read my post I said it's not "M-A-J-O-R" height. Big difference, my friend. And as for Austin's speed and hops, I think he's solid in those areas, but not otherworldly (aka "freakish"). What I saw from Austin in the few games I watched was the ability to shake the defender in front of him and either create jump-shooting distance or space to go to the rack. All I'm saying is that I'm not sure he'll be able to dominate with those particular strengths as much on the college level as he did in high school. Frankly, I think his game will translate better in the pros, where one-on-one play offensively is more pronounced.

Look, I'm hoping that Austin comes in and impacts the team like Kyrie did. But I'm not expecting quite that much. None of that means I think he's going to fall flat or only be so-so. Not at all. AR will be a terrific player for us regardless and I'm glad he'll be wearing Duke blue!!!

[Wheat/"/"/"]

I seem to recall there being a great deal of heelish sentiment that wasn't so favorable. In fact, it was so bad that Jason had ill feelings toward the fanbase, if not the entire program.

There were some frustrated fans that expected him to be a star player and carry those teams and I wouldn't doubt Jason had "ill feelings" for some.

I would doubt any got directed at the program.

[OldPhiKap]

There were some frustrated fans that expected him to be a star player and carry those teams and I wouldn't doubt Jason had "ill feelings" for some.

I would doubt any got directed at the program.

I seem to remember Jeff Capel posting on IC, in response to the vicious things being said about Jason. But I think those kind of things probably made him closer to his teammates and coach, because all of the players were getting it from "the outside" (even if that "outside" was the UNC "fanbase").

IIRC, that team had some very good role players (Jason, Kris Lang, some others I am forgetting) but lacked the big star that would allow them to play in their roles more comfortably.

[PADukeMom]

Look, I'm hoping that Austin comes in and impacts the team like Kyrie did. But I'm not expecting quite that much. None of that means I think he's going to fall flat or only be so-so. Not at all. AR will be a terrific player for us regardless and I'm glad he'll be wearing Duke blue!!!

Agree 100%. I'll call Austin Epic Win complete with a Russian accent it he perfers.:cool:

[jnastasi]

Austin got some poor marks from the Kevin Durant camp from this ESPN writer...

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/32452/letters-from-camp-emptying-the-notebook

[Duvall]

Austin got some poor marks from the Kevin Durant camp from this ESPN writer...

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/32452/letters-from-camp-emptying-the-notebook

A dissenting view (http://twitter.com/#!/KDTrey5/status/85515382420549632).

[uh_no]

Austin got some poor marks from the Kevin Durant camp from this ESPN writer...

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/32452/letters-from-camp-emptying-the-notebook

Eammon is a bit of a big east homer.....

[sagegrouse]

Austin got some poor marks from the Kevin Durant camp from this ESPN writer...

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/32452/letters-from-camp-emptying-the-notebook

To save readers a few minutes of scrolling time, here is the paragraph on Austin Rivers, fully consistent with "brief excerpts for the purposes of a review:"


•Duke guard Austin Rivers, meanwhile, did not do as much to impress. The son of Celtics coach Doc Rivers is obviously talented, and he might already be the quickest player in the country with the ball in his hands. But he didn't have much success breaking down defenders and creating his own shot, his main calling-card as a player to date. Of course, Rivers didn't have much opportunity; the only time he faced actual defenders Sunday was during those structured five-on-five scrimmages. Still, it will be interesting to see if Rivers suffers some early struggles adjusting to the strength and speed of the college game.

I would call ESPN's assessment a resounding "incomplete."

sagegrouse

[COYS]

Austin got some poor marks from the Kevin Durant camp from this ESPN writer...

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/32452/letters-from-camp-emptying-the-notebook

Sounds more like he got an "incomplete." He apparently only had the ball a few times in the 5 on 5 scrimmage and never broke anyone down off the dribble, although he was impressive in all the drills. The author said he was "quickest player with the ball in his hands," even if he didn't get to the rim much during the scrimmage. Not something to be too alarmed with, in my opinion.

[COYS]

To save readers a few minutes of scrolling time, here is the paragraph on Austin Rivers, fully consistent with "brief excerpts for the purposes of a review:"



I would call ESPN's assessment a resounding "incomplete."

sagegrouse

Sagegrouse, I apologize that I said exactly the same thing you said. Somehow I failed to read the next page of the thread and missed your post. But hey, great minds think alike!

[sagegrouse]

Sagegrouse, I apologize that I said exactly the same thing you said. Somehow I failed to read the next page of the thread and missed your post. But hey, great minds think alike!

I was utterly flattered that you came up with the same word I did. Thank you. -- sagegrouse

[ChicagoHeel]

Here is another report, that is also less than glowing, especially if you compare it to the much more positive comments given to other college players that attended. As much as I would like to believe that is a sign of struggles to come, I don't put too much weight on this.

"Austin Rivers, 6-4 freshman shooting guard, Duke, KD: Doc’s heralded son wasn’t at his phenomenal best Sunday–one of the smaller players there, his usually-potent J wasn’t falling and while he’s an explosive open-court athlete and isolation player, the half-court drill work and scrimmaging, combined with his comparable lack of strength allowed bigger, older and more physical opponents to lean on him a little–but don’t jump off the bandwagon just yet, as his feeling-out process saw him make high I.Q. decisions, exhibit unselfishness and play like the coach’s son he is, qualities that will help him be successful in college, although the high-scoring outputs and highlight-reel moves will undoubtedly be there, too".


http://www.slamonline.com/online/college-hs/college/2011/06/nike-skills-academies-recap/2/

[uh_no]

Here is another report, that is also less than glowing, especially if you compare it to the much more positive comments given to other college players that attended. As much as I would like to believe that is a sign of struggles to come, I don't put too much weight on this.

"Austin Rivers, 6-4 freshman shooting guard, Duke, KD: Doc’s heralded son wasn’t at his phenomenal best Sunday–one of the smaller players there, his usually-potent J wasn’t falling and while he’s an explosive open-court athlete and isolation player, the half-court drill work and scrimmaging, combined with his comparable lack of strength allowed bigger, older and more physical opponents to lean on him a little–but don’t jump off the bandwagon just yet, as his feeling-out process saw him make high I.Q. decisions, exhibit unselfishness and play like the coach’s son he is, qualities that will help him be successful in college, although the high-scoring outputs and highlight-reel moves will undoubtedly be there, too".


http://www.slamonline.com/online/college-hs/college/2011/06/nike-skills-academies-recap/2/

wow. twice is a trend now....Obviously you really have to withhold judgement until the kid actually plays ball for us, its hard to ignore a review like this for who was expected to be the top freshman in the country. It's certainly true that he could be off, or that lofty expectations have yielded a less than favorable review (we've seen what lofty expectations can do...)

As good as he may be, we still have to remember that he is a freshman. As much as people fawn over 1 and dones, they have yet to prove themselves capable of leading a team to a championship (less carmelo). Lets wait and see. If he proves to be too 'weak' then you can bet that K will devise some scheme to cover that weakness. We have a host of players, and that more than anything gives us flexibility to mold a team which can adapt to whatever AR may or may not be and thus allow him to shine.

[sagegrouse]

Here is another report, that is also less than glowing, especially if you compare it to the much more positive comments given to other college players that attended. As much as I would like to believe that is a sign of struggles to come, I don't put too much weight on this.

"Austin Rivers, 6-4 freshman shooting guard, Duke, KD: Doc’s heralded son wasn’t at his phenomenal best Sunday–one of the smaller players there, his usually-potent J wasn’t falling and while he’s an explosive open-court athlete and isolation player, the half-court drill work and scrimmaging, combined with his comparable lack of strength allowed bigger, older and more physical opponents to lean on him a little–but don’t jump off the bandwagon just yet, as his feeling-out process saw him make high I.Q. decisions, exhibit unselfishness and play like the coach’s son he is, qualities that will help him be successful in college, although the high-scoring outputs and highlight-reel moves will undoubtedly be there, too".


http://www.slamonline.com/online/college-hs/college/2011/06/nike-skills-academies-recap/2/

I'm a "glass is half full" guy and there are a lot of positives there. I'm OK with it. The negatives were that his shot was off (stuff happens) and that the other players were physically stronger. Were they guards? But I really like the riff, "make high I.Q. decisions, exhibit unselfishness and play like the coach’s son he is." Sounds like a Duke guy, after all -- especially because some of us were worried about his maturity and team orientation.

sagegrouse

[uh_no]

I'm a "glass is half full" guy and there are a lot of positives there. I'm OK with it. The negatives were that his shot was off (stuff happens) and that the other players were physically stronger. Were they guards? But I really like the riff, "make high I.Q. decisions, exhibit unselfishness and play like the coach’s son he is." Sounds like a Duke guy, after all -- especially because some of us were worried about his maturity and team orientation.

sagegrouse

And even if he isn't the greatest thing since sliced bread....neither were lance thomas, Z, or Scheyer....I'll take unsliced bread any day