PDA

View Full Version : NCAA enforcement of vacated wins penalties



SCMatt33
06-17-2011, 01:45 AM
Word came down today that UK has capitulated to the NCAA's strong request (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/32032/kentucky-bows-to-ncaa-on-caliparis-record) that correct it's statistics to accurately reflect John Calipari's vacated wins after celebrating his "500th" win this past February. UK fans have been whining for a while now that the NCAA has been picking on them for no good reason, and normally I would completely ignore it, but something caught my eye recently that made me question what the NCAA is doing.

I seriously doubt that the NCAA is picking on UK, but I do think that they are enforcing their vacated wins pretty randomly. Last week, before I even heard anything about this Kentucky story, I attended my sister's high school graduation. My old high school is located in the suburbs of Philly and to accommodate graduation at an indoor venue, it was held at the Villanova Pavilion. Having to get there early for seats and being a basketball fan, I naturally spent some time looking at the banners that Villanova had hanging and noticed their Final Four banner, which I photographed (http://i.imgur.com/2WlQf.jpg). Villanova has made four Final Four's in school history, and they are all represented. The problem is that one of them, 1971, was vacated because star player and Final Four MOP Howard Porter (the MOP was indeed from the runner-up that year) had signed an ABA contract in the middle of the season.

I was prompted to research the matter further and found that while some teams, like Memphis for '08 and Michigan for '92 and '93, have been forced to remove Final Four banners, others, like UMass in '96, continue to hang them. Even within the same program there is no agreement, as Memphis apparently still hangs a 1985 banner. This Andy Katz article from 2009 sums it up pretty well (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/blog/_/name/katz_andy/id/4419127)

This does not stop at banners, however. When I did a Google search about Villanova's 1971 season, I also found some information about Western Kentucky's 1971 season. Like Villanova, the Hilltoppers made the Final Four, only to have it vacated when it was revealed that it's star player and 1st team All-American, Jim McDaniels, had signed an ABA contract. Just two weeks before UK had its celebration for John Calipari, WKU had a 40th anniversary celebration honoring the 1971 team. This official news release about the event (http://www.wkusports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=5400&ATCLID=205092464) makes sure to point out the team accomplishments as well as the individual accomplishment of McDaniels, but makes no effort to point out that it was vacated. As far as I know, the NCAA hasn't forced a public apology from WKU, but UK was threatened with a trip to see the committee on infractions.

The inconsistencies don't end there. While researching WKU, I inevitably ended up at their Wikipedia page and noticed that McDaniel's was among the retired jerseys. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Kentucky_Hilltoppers_basketball#Retired_Je rseys) I didn't think much of it at the time since McDaniel's hadn't signed the contract until his final year, and theoretically, they could retire his jersey for his efforts before he became ineligible. Earlier today, however, I ran across this Yahoo! article describing the plight of Arizona (http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/blog/the_dagger/post/Why-Arizona-has-been-unable-to-retire-Jason-Terr?urn=ncaab-wp3396) in their quest to retire Jason Terry's jersey. He was found to have taken over $10,000 from agents and got U of A's 1999 tournament appearance vacated for it. Apparently, the NCAA (and the Pac-12) must approve of the jersey retirement, which is unlikely. So Jim McDaniels has his jersey in the rafters after signing a pro contract, and Jason Terry can't get his retired after taking money from agents? How does that make sense?

I understand that NCAA enforcement is charged with an impossible task as catching and prosecuting every violation is impossible. I also think that vacating wins is a good penalty when they do catch people, as the penalty is permanent, has little effect on future players who are innocent, and when those vacations are enforced, it prevents offenders from capitalizing on falsely earned achievements in the future. The problem is that the NCAA doesn't seem to always do this. The hard part is over. They caught the violations and doled out punishments. The facts have been stated. How can they send out one letter to UK, but then not send out another one to WKU? How can they let Villanova and UMass keep Final Four banners with no repercussions, but not Michigan, Ohio State, or Memphis? Even within the same case there is no agreement, as UMass still has a Final Four banner, but John Calipari gets threatened when he includes those four wins on his resume.

CameronBornAndBred
06-17-2011, 08:10 AM
Well hell, I gotta spread some love around before I pitchfork you again..but great post. I would have assumed that vacated means no banner, just like you pointed out for Michigan.

uh_no
06-17-2011, 08:42 AM
I think the thing with UK and cal was that it was getting a little ridiculous with 'celebrating' his 500th win, saying he had been to 3 final fours...etc....when he hadn't...while I completely agree that the other banners should be removed, I can't fault the NCAA and am glad that they forced UK (and hopefully the media will catch the hint) that hasn't made all these accomplishments. he has exactly 1 final 4.

SCMatt33
06-17-2011, 11:20 AM
This article (http://rushthecourt.net/2011/06/17/ncaa-gets-change-out-of-kentucky-but-will-it-go-after-the-rest/) was posted by Rush The Court at 4:01 AM. Looks like I beat them to the punch by a little over two hours, though it looks like they spent time finding examples that are much closer to the same situation as Calipari.

rasputin
06-17-2011, 12:08 PM
Word came down today that UK has capitulated to the NCAA's strong request (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/32032/kentucky-bows-to-ncaa-on-caliparis-record) that correct it's statistics to accurately reflect John Calipari's vacated wins after celebrating his "500th" win this past February. UK fans have been whining for a while now that the NCAA has been picking on them for no good reason, and normally I would completely ignore it, but something caught my eye recently that made me question what the NCAA is doing.

I seriously doubt that the NCAA is picking on UK, but I do think that they are enforcing their vacated wins pretty randomly. Last week, before I even heard anything about this Kentucky story, I attended my sister's high school graduation. My old high school is located in the suburbs of Philly and to accommodate graduation at an indoor venue, it was held at the Villanova Pavilion. Having to get there early for seats and being a basketball fan, I naturally spent some time looking at the banners that Villanova had hanging and noticed their Final Four banner, which I photographed (http://i.imgur.com/2WlQf.jpg). Villanova has made four Final Four's in school history, and they are all represented. The problem is that one of them, 1971, was vacated because star player and Final Four MOP Howard Porter (the MOP was indeed from the runner-up that year) had signed an ABA contract in the middle of the season.

I was prompted to research the matter further and found that while some teams, like Memphis for '08 and Michigan for '92 and '93, have been forced to remove Final Four banners, others, like UMass in '96, continue to hang them. Even within the same program there is no agreement, as Memphis apparently still hangs a 1985 banner. This Andy Katz article from 2009 sums it up pretty well (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/blog/_/name/katz_andy/id/4419127)

This does not stop at banners, however. When I did a Google search about Villanova's 1971 season, I also found some information about Western Kentucky's 1971 season. Like Villanova, the Hilltoppers made the Final Four, only to have it vacated when it was revealed that it's star player and 1st team All-American, Jim McDaniels, had signed an ABA contract. Just two weeks before UK had its celebration for John Calipari, WKU had a 40th anniversary celebration honoring the 1971 team. This official news release about the event (http://www.wkusports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=5400&ATCLID=205092464) makes sure to point out the team accomplishments as well as the individual accomplishment of McDaniels, but makes no effort to point out that it was vacated. As far as I know, the NCAA hasn't forced a public apology from WKU, but UK was threatened with a trip to see the committee on infractions.

The inconsistencies don't end there. While researching WKU, I inevitably ended up at their Wikipedia page and noticed that McDaniel's was among the retired jerseys. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Kentucky_Hilltoppers_basketball#Retired_Je rseys) I didn't think much of it at the time since McDaniel's hadn't signed the contract until his final year, and theoretically, they could retire his jersey for his efforts before he became ineligible. Earlier today, however, I ran across this Yahoo! article describing the plight of Arizona (http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/blog/the_dagger/post/Why-Arizona-has-been-unable-to-retire-Jason-Terr?urn=ncaab-wp3396) in their quest to retire Jason Terry's jersey. He was found to have taken over $10,000 from agents and got U of A's 1999 tournament appearance vacated for it. Apparently, the NCAA (and the Pac-12) must approve of the jersey retirement, which is unlikely. So Jim McDaniels has his jersey in the rafters after signing a pro contract, and Jason Terry can't get his retired after taking money from agents? How does that make sense?

I understand that NCAA enforcement is charged with an impossible task as catching and prosecuting every violation is impossible. I also think that vacating wins is a good penalty when they do catch people, as the penalty is permanent, has little effect on future players who are innocent, and when those vacations are enforced, it prevents offenders from capitalizing on falsely earned achievements in the future. The problem is that the NCAA doesn't seem to always do this. The hard part is over. They caught the violations and doled out punishments. The facts have been stated. How can they send out one letter to UK, but then not send out another one to WKU? How can they let Villanova and UMass keep Final Four banners with no repercussions, but not Michigan, Ohio State, or Memphis? Even within the same case there is no agreement, as UMass still has a Final Four banner, but John Calipari gets threatened when he includes those four wins on his resume.

My family was living in Bowling Green, Kentucky during the season referred to, and there was a lot of Hilltopermania that year. IIRC, Western Kentucky defeated Kentucky in the regional final for the right to go to that (vacated) Final Four. Kentucky wouldn't schedule Western.

Lord Ash
06-17-2011, 12:41 PM
Great post.

I do agree that they should not try to use games that are officially vacated... if the league says they don't count, then they don't. However, the NCAA really seems to have an axe to grind with Cal. If I were a Kentucky fan, I'd write letters to the NCAA about all of those examples, especially the Fischer one... how on earth do they let THAT go, but jump on Calipari?

DevilWearsPrada
06-17-2011, 12:48 PM
Well hell, I gotta spread some love around before I pitchfork you again..but great post. I would have assumed that vacated means no banner, just like you pointed out for Michigan.

Totally agree! I couldnt give Props either! I guess we have to spread the Love around. What an awesome post!

Even though, the NCAA takes away the wins or title or banner; the team and fans still celebrated, and that will be remembered forever.