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superdave
06-13-2011, 12:09 PM
Since the Finals are done we can now turn to, and baselessly speculate about, all the off-season moves teams will make to over-pay good players, trade unhappy guys, circumvent the salary cap and generally ruin their team's ability to compete for the next 3-4 years.

Here's the NBA trade machine (http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine) courtesy of Espn.com.

Here's a few trade ideas to get us started:

Russel Westbrook (plus $9 million in other salaries, draft picks) for Chris Paul. Does Westbrook get it? Will Chris Paul leave NO via free agency? This could work for both teams. I think OKC is unlikely to pull the trigger on this and will instead work on Westbrook to be a better distributor.

Dwight Howard, Gilbert Arenas for Paul Gasol, Andrew Bynum. Howard has said he wants to stay in Orlando. But is that true? Could Orlando get any better deal than this? Could L.A. do any better? This seems like a win-win. I could see the Lakers trying to package Artest instead of Bynum, but they'd have to sweeten the deal somehow.

Steve Nash, Jared Dudley for Josh Smith and Jeff Teague. The Suns need to rebuild and the Hawks need some leadership. Teague could be a starting pg in the league based on his post-season play - the Suns take a chance.

CDu
06-13-2011, 01:01 PM
Russel Westbrook (plus $9 million in other salaries, draft picks) for Chris Paul. Does Westbrook get it? Will Chris Paul leave NO via free agency? This could work for both teams. I think OKC is unlikely to pull the trigger on this and will instead work on Westbrook to be a better distributor.

I think the Thunder will try to make it work with Westbrook. He's still cheap and young, and I think he and Durant are buddies. They'll hope he can figure out the next steps, which are somewhat similar to those needed for Derrick Rose (though more pronounced). Also, I suspect that Paul will try to pull a Carmelo Anthony and force a trade to a team of his choice (perhaps even the same Knicks team).


Dwight Howard, Gilbert Arenas for Paul Gasol, Andrew Bynum. Howard has said he wants to stay in Orlando. But is that true? Could Orlando get any better deal than this? Could L.A. do any better? This seems like a win-win. I could see the Lakers trying to package Artest instead of Bynum, but they'd have to sweeten the deal somehow.

This is a fascinating idea, and is perhaps the first trade suggestion I've seen from anyone that doesn't completely favor LA. A trade of two very good frontcourt players for the most dominating frontcourt player in the NBA along with a really bad salary. It would make great sense for the Lakers in that they'd get one of the best 2-3 players in the league and they'd simultaneously address the fact that neither Bynum nor Gasol pairs well defensively alongside Howard (just like Bynum and Gasol don't pair well defensively). The Lakers would then rely a LOT on Lamar Odom at the 4, which can be questionable. And they'd need to add another big or two to split time with those two. It would give LA the firepower to make a run at a few more titles before Bryant is done as an elite player.

On Orlando's side, it gives them something in return for Howard and keeps them credible in the East. I don't think Gasol and Bynum work great together (both are too slow to play the 4 well), but they would be good enough to keep Orlando relevant. And the Magic would clear off one bad salary and make some room in their crowded backcourt.

I don't think it'll happen because I imagine the Lakers would balk at trading BOTH of their bigs and I imagine the Magic ignoring the reality that they'd probably lose Howard to free agency. But it's a very interesting trade idea.


Steve Nash, Jared Dudley for Josh Smith and Jeff Teague. The Suns need to rebuild and the Hawks need some leadership. Teague could be a starting pg in the league based on his post-season play - the Suns take a chance.

I'm not sure I like that deal from the Hawks' perspective, because I think Nash is a bad fit with Johnson and Crawford. Those two guys are pretty much only effective with the ball in their hands, and I don't see them moving without the ball to take advantage of Nash's gifts. Not to mention, a Nash/Crawford backcourt would be among the worst defensive pairings in the NBA. I actually think Nash would work better with Josh Smith, because Nash could create good slashing opportunities for Smith (in a poor man's Stoudemire sense), and Smith's athleticism would be great for Nash.

JasonEvans
06-13-2011, 02:20 PM
Nothing is happening this offseason. There is going to be a lockout starting in just a couple weeks. We will get some trades leading up to the draft, but no blockbusters because no one knows what the new rules will be and no one wants to take a chance without knowing what the new salary structure will be.

Heck, I have heard talk that Miami might be forced to trade Bosh if the new rules bring in a hard salary cap.

-Jason "the NBA is going to lose a ton of positive momentum if they impact next season with a labor stoppage" Evans

CDu
06-13-2011, 03:19 PM
Nothing is happening this offseason. There is going to be a lockout starting in just a couple weeks. We will get some trades leading up to the draft, but no blockbusters because no one knows what the new rules will be and no one wants to take a chance without knowing what the new salary structure will be.

Heck, I have heard talk that Miami might be forced to trade Bosh if the new rules bring in a hard salary cap.

-Jason "the NBA is going to lose a ton of positive momentum if they impact next season with a labor stoppage" Evans

Yeah, it will be very interesting to see the implications of the new CBA (whenever it happens). A hard salary cap would wreak havoc on almost all of the contenders, as pretty much all of them are over what any likely cap number would be. The Bulls and Mavs are both committed to around $60million (but eventually the Bulls are going to have to pay Rose big), Atlanta and Miami are at $65 million, and Boston ($72 million), the Lakers ($95 million!), and Magic ($75 million) are over $70 million. The Spurs are at $57 million without Parker, and the Grizzlies are at $36 million without Randolph, Battier, or Gasol. OKC ($49 million) and Indiana ($35 million) both currently have a bit of flexibility, though that's mainly because their starters are young and thus still fairly cheap (which will change).

Class of '94
06-13-2011, 06:20 PM
Nothing is happening this offseason. There is going to be a lockout starting in just a couple weeks. We will get some trades leading up to the draft, but no blockbusters because no one knows what the new rules will be and no one wants to take a chance without knowing what the new salary structure will be.

Heck, I have heard talk that Miami might be forced to trade Bosh if the new rules bring in a hard salary cap.

-Jason "the NBA is going to lose a ton of positive momentum if they impact next season with a labor stoppage" Evans

I haven't worked out the numbers; but if Miami would go hard after Grant this summer since he is a free agent; and somehow work a trade for Nash from Phoenix, I think the Heat would win it all next year. The Heat would have the point guard that they need; and the addition of Grant would give the Heat a versatile defender and scorer that could team up with Wade and Lebron on the perimeter to wreak havok. And even if Miami doesn't get Nash, having Grant could free up Lebron to be more of an attacker on offense and allow Grant to be the facilitator. Of course, Lebron would have to work on his ability to play without the ball in order to be sucessful.

tommy
06-13-2011, 06:25 PM
I haven't worked out the numbers; but if Miami would go hard after Grant this summer since he is a free agent; and somehow work a trade for Nash from Phoenix, I think the Heat would win it all next year. The Heat would have the point guard that they need; and the addition of Grant would give the Heat a versatile defender and scorer that could team up with Wade and Lebron on the perimeter to wreak havok. And even if Miami doesn't get Nash, having Grant could free up Lebron to be more of an attacker on offense and allow Grant to be the facilitator. Of course, Lebron would have to work on his ability to play without the ball in order to be sucessful.

While I'd love to see the Heat get Grant too, LeBron attacked on offense just fine this year, to the tune of almost 27 ppg. He just stopped doing it against Dallas, apparently for numerous reasons both physical and psychological.

Class of '94
06-13-2011, 07:17 PM
While I'd love to see the Heat get Grant too, LeBron attacked on offense just fine this year, to the tune of almost 27 ppg. He just stopped doing it against Dallas, apparently for numerous reasons both physical and psychological.

I've read some of the rumors about Lebron and his possible "outside" distractions; but I wonder if part of his lack of agressiveness has to do with him needing to dominate the ball; and when D-Wade had it going in the Finals, Lebron wasn't able to figure out how to play off D-Wade's agressive play and just appeared to be disengaged. I think having guys like Grant and Nash would provide more veteran leadership and could help those guys play better together.

BD80
06-13-2011, 07:21 PM
Nothing is happening this offseason. There is going to be a lockout starting in just a couple weeks. We will get some trades leading up to the draft, but no blockbusters because no one knows what the new rules will be and no one wants to take a chance without knowing what the new salary structure will be.

Heck, I have heard talk that Miami might be forced to trade Bosh if the new rules bring in a hard salary cap.

-Jason "the NBA is going to lose a ton of positive momentum if they impact next season with a labor stoppage" Evans

If there is a significant adjustment in the cap, i.e. a "hard cap," there is likely to be some sort of one-time relief afforded to teams. I believe the last time there was an adjustment, each team was allowed to dump one salary without penalty (cut a high priced player with no salary repercussions - but the team would still owe the contract amount to the player cut). There are more than a few GMs that could use that relief; in Detroit, we would be Villanawaivin'

CDu
06-13-2011, 07:59 PM
If there is a significant adjustment in the cap, i.e. a "hard cap," there is likely to be some sort of one-time relief afforded to teams. I believe the last time there was an adjustment, each team was allowed to dump one salary without penalty (cut a high priced player with no salary repercussions - but the team would still owe the contract amount to the player cut). There are more than a few GMs that could use that relief; in Detroit, we would be Villanawaivin'

Yeah, but unless teams are allowed to re-sign those players for the minimum (which would be shady), this would still result in chaos among the contenders. The Lakers would have to cut one of Bynum/Gasol/Odom/Artest and then STILL need to do a salary dump trade with at least one of the others, as their payroll is at $95 million (which is probably $30-40 million or more above a cap). The Bulls would likely cut Boozer, whose contract has very quickly turned into an albatross. I'm not sure who the Heat would cut (I guess Bosh, but then they'd have a huge hole in the frontcourt).

If the teams can then re-sign their cut players, it wouldn't cause chaos. Although the Lakers would still be in a bind, because they'd still need to actually shed one or two contracts even with a "get out of jail free" card for one player.

darjum
06-13-2011, 09:39 PM
http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/214105/Howard_Reiterates_Desire_To_Stay_In_Orlando_Says_H ell_Opt_Out_After_Next_Season

Way to send mixed messages Dwight. This man is the prize to be had. I don't believe it will happen before the lockout, but once the season gets underway the noise coming out of Orlando will be a welcome distraction for their Floridian neighbors. Unless a 'magic' trade happens and Otis Smith pulls off a miracle to upgrade Dwight's teammates, he's gone. So, trade him and stay semi-competitive or let him walk, bottom out & end up with high draft picks, they do have good luck in getting #1 picks in years with franchise guys...albeit they all end up leaving in the prime of their careers!

If there is a fire sale in Orlando I wonder if another contending team, oh say the runner up in this years finals, may make a run at JJ? I know it will be hard for the Heat to make moves in the future, but I could envision JJ being a great compliment to the Heat's wing players and against a team that plays zone he would be a wonderful pressure relief as a zone buster.

Would love to see a Duke player in the NBA Finals again, hopefully next year.

NSDukeFan
06-14-2011, 11:45 AM
I've read some of the rumors about Lebron and his possible "outside" distractions; but I wonder if part of his lack of agressiveness has to do with him needing to dominate the ball; and when D-Wade had it going in the Finals, Lebron wasn't able to figure out how to play off D-Wade's agressive play and just appeared to be disengaged. I think having guys like Grant and Nash would provide more veteran leadership and could help those guys play better together.

Grant and Nash are two of my favorite players in the league, but I don't know if they would be a good match in Cleveland. There seems to be some discussion that one of LeBron's issues is his ability to play with Wade, since they are both used to having the ball in their hands a lot. They played well together enough during the regular season and most of the playoffs, but seemed to struggle some in the finals (Dallas' tough D and certainly their zone were obvious other factors.) You are discussing how Grant could handle the ball more and allow LeBron to attack. I agree that LeBron needs to improve in that area, but that is so he can play more effectively with Wade. Nash and Grant are both very good with the ball in their hands, but so are LeBron and Wade, and, even for Miami they still only play the game with one basketball.

CameronBornAndBred
06-14-2011, 02:51 PM
I haven't worked out the numbers; but if Miami would go hard after Grant this summer since he is a free agent; and somehow work a trade for Nash from Phoenix, I think the Heat would win it all next year.
As long as the Heat have Sweet Baby James, I will enjoy watching them lose, so I don't want to see any Dukies on their roster.

Indoor66
06-14-2011, 05:00 PM
As long as the Heat have Sweet Baby James, I will enjoy watching them lose, so I don't want to see any Dukies on their roster.

I'll bet you've seen Fire and Rain as well....

nmduke2001
06-15-2011, 06:15 PM
would Pat Riley entertain a trade of LBJ straight up for Dwight Howard? It works for Miami because Wade and LBJ are basically the same guy and don't work well together in my opinion. Also, the Heat need interior help. It works for Orlando because they get equal value for Dwight.

superdave
06-16-2011, 09:50 AM
would Pat Riley entertain a trade of LBJ straight up for Dwight Howard? It works for Miami because Wade and LBJ are basically the same guy and don't work well together in my opinion. Also, the Heat need interior help. It works for Orlando because they get equal value for Dwight.

No, first of all two teams in the same division would not trade their big guns for each other. Second I am sure that whatever Pat Riley sold Lebron on last summer means that Riley is tied to LBJ for the duration. They came close to winning a title with a rotation that did not get healthy until the playoffs (Miller, Uhaul).

If Miami can ditch the old centers (Ilgauskus, Dampier, Howard) and sign 2 younger guys to play with Uhaul, Bosh and Anthony, then they will be fine. Jeff Foster and Kurt Thomas are unrestricted this summer. Either would be a big upgrade.

Miami's biggest problem is that the cap wont grow this year. They need huge cap increases to bring in newbies. But there is a reason Vegas has the Heat as favorites for the 2012 NBA title.

Acymetric
06-16-2011, 10:50 AM
No, first of all two teams in the same division would not trade their big guns for each other. Second I am sure that whatever Pat Riley sold Lebron on last summer means that Riley is tied to LBJ for the duration. They came close to winning a title with a rotation that did not get healthy until the playoffs (Miller, Uhaul).

If Miami can ditch the old centers (Ilgauskus, Dampier, Howard) and sign 2 younger guys to play with Uhaul, Bosh and Anthony, then they will be fine. Jeff Foster and Kurt Thomas are unrestricted this summer. Either would be a big upgrade.

Miami's biggest problem is that the cap wont grow this year. They need huge cap increases to bring in newbies. But there is a reason Vegas has the Heat as favorites for the 2012 NBA title.

You sort of brush aside the cap issue...they have no room to grow. Young players with potential aren't going to want to work for the minimum for half their careers to have a shot at a title. There are other teams with a chance to win it all that will pay better.

If they are able to pick up players for far less than market value I think there would have to be investigation into under the table payments from the team or the big three themselves (I assume that wouldn't be allowed under league rules).

That said, even though getting rid of Lebron might be logical in some ways, it just can't be done. Might be able to deal Bosh though (not for Howard, but for someone good).

nocilla
06-16-2011, 11:07 AM
If Miami can ditch the old centers (Ilgauskus, Dampier, Howard) and sign 2 younger guys to play with Uhaul, Bosh and Anthony, then they will be fine. Jeff Foster and Kurt Thomas are unrestricted this summer. Either would be a big upgrade.


Kurt Thomas is older than the 3 'old centers' he would be replacing. And Jeff Foster at 34 isn't much younger. I don't think that would be much of an upgrade.

superdave
06-16-2011, 11:43 AM
Kurt Thomas is older than the 3 'old centers' he would be replacing. And Jeff Foster at 34 isn't much younger. I don't think that would be much of an upgrade.

True. But Kurt Thomas has looked pretty good in limited minutes and Dampier and Ilgauskus look horrible. I cannot vouch for Foster. The Heat's option are most likely vets who want a shot at a ring, or to get lucky with a 2nd round draft pick (Dexter Pittman from last year?)

The only way they sign a younger big is if it's for a 1 year deal, then they can resign him without worrying about the cap because of the Bird rule.

darjum
06-18-2011, 10:54 PM
Good try Golden State:

http://bayarea.sbnation.com/golden-state-warriors/2011/6/18/2230864/monta-ellis-trade-rumor-dwight-howard-for-ellis-biedrins-and-ekpe-udoh

It will be interesting to see what it takes to get Orlando to take a second look?

BD80
06-19-2011, 08:35 AM
... The only way they sign a younger big is if it's for a 1 year deal, then they can resign him without worrying about the cap because of the Bird rule.

I thought a team only acquired Bird rule rights if they had the player on the roster for three years or traded to acquire the player from a team that had the player for three years.

darjum
06-19-2011, 09:27 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=6671886

It will be very interesting to see how Ricky Rubio translates as an NBA player. It seems I've heard so much about him over the years and of the few Euro league and Olympic games I've seen of him he does seem to have the handle and size to translate to the NBA. Obviously this statement from the above article doesn't blow you away:

In his last two seasons in Spain, Rubio averaged 5.9 points, 4.4 assists and 1.85 steals in 21.6 minutes.

But the Euro league is very competitive and the statistics these players put up aren't always a reflection of their ability. Obviously Ricky needs to learn to shoot, otherwise his tenure in the league will be short.

It should be fun to see him catch the outlet from Love and have Wes Johnson and D.Williams (maybe) filling the lanes. Good luck to him and I hope for Wolves fans Rubio's arrival was worth the wait.

superdave
06-19-2011, 10:25 PM
I thought a team only acquired Bird rule rights if they had the player on the roster for three years or traded to acquire the player from a team that had the player for three years.

You are probably right. I'm never good with these details.

Tyson Chandler is a free agent! I bet Cuban gives him Brendan Haywood $ though.

superdave
06-20-2011, 11:22 AM
Looks like the owners gave in (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=6673181)on a big issue for players. We'll see what they get in return. Two big issues remaining: split of revenue (similar to NFL's current arguments I suppose) and length of contracts which could be set at 4, 5 or 6 years.

superdave
06-20-2011, 11:33 AM
This trade has been rumored for about a week now.

Iggy makes $12.3 million and is maybe 2 years into a 6 year deal I think. He's 27. Kaman is 29 and makes $11.8 million so the salaries would match. I'm not quite sure how trading a quality big man away helps the Clips. Do they think DeAndre Jordan can play C? They shipped out Marcus Camby a few years ago too. Curious.

superdave
06-20-2011, 11:38 AM
Looks like the Suns will pay Vincsanity (http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/2011/06/18/20110618phoenix-suns-nba-draft.html) $4 million to go away rather than $18 million to stick around. I guess they got tired of watching him float 35 feet from the basket, refuse to drive the lane and make funny faces whenever someone touched him. I really hope he lands in the league in Taiwan or the NBDL.

The Suns are in re-build mode....what does that mean for Grant Hill and Steve Nash? Huge question marks there because Nash deserves to call his own shot.

darjum
06-20-2011, 08:20 PM
Looks like the Suns will pay Vincsanity (http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/2011/06/18/20110618phoenix-suns-nba-draft.html) $4 million to go away rather than $18 million to stick around. I guess they got tired of watching him float 35 feet from the basket, refuse to drive the lane and make funny faces whenever someone touched him. I really hope he lands in the league in Taiwan or the NBDL.

The Suns are in re-build mode....what does that mean for Grant Hill and Steve Nash? Huge question marks there because Nash deserves to call his own shot.

We all might get on LeBron from time to time because he hasn't matched his potential, but at least he's coming close. Carter is the biggest waste of physical talent ever, the guy can do anything on the court, but he's mentally weak.

Hope Hill and Nash get an opportunity on a contender, they both deserve one last crack.

darjum
06-20-2011, 08:23 PM
This trade has been rumored for about a week now.

Iggy makes $12.3 million and is maybe 2 years into a 6 year deal I think. He's 27. Kaman is 29 and makes $11.8 million so the salaries would match. I'm not quite sure how trading a quality big man away helps the Clips. Do they think DeAndre Jordan can play C? They shipped out Marcus Camby a few years ago too. Curious.

I actually though this trade would have happened mid last year, it just seemed to work for both teams at the time. I think Jordan can work next to Blake, but not many others. I also feel Iggy would be fantastic in the Clippers scheme, he would be the 3-4 option on offense, which he likes, and he would be a force defensively. Clips should be good next year, now only if they could get that draft pick back from the Cavs...

Newton_14
06-20-2011, 10:01 PM
We all might get on LeBron from time to time because he hasn't matched his potential, but at least he's coming close. Carter is the biggest waste of physical talent ever, the guy can do anything on the court, but he's mentally weak.

Hope Hill and Nash get an opportunity on a contender, they both deserve one last crack.

One small correction in an otherwise fine post: the guy "used" to be able to do anything on the court. He is an overweight has been at this point. I agree he was one of the biggest waste of talents ever. He just never seemed to have the will to win that true superstars have. He was selfish, and I never saw him as much of a team player driven to do anything it takes to win.

Edit: Watching Orlando subout Vince in favor of JJ during the games, and knowing the better player was checking in, was one of the many great pleasures of being a Duke fan in 2010.

superdave
06-21-2011, 01:07 PM
This article (http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=20154)goes through a lot of analysis on any Lakers-Wolves deal.

I think the T-Wolves would likely want to keep Kevin Love. He of the double-double, crowd-favorite Love family.

Gasol has an $18 million salary plus a 15% trade kicker meaning more like $20 million in salary to make the deal work. So with Love at about $3 million, how does this deal work? It would take 5 Wolves to get to $20 million.

If it could work, I'd offer Love, Flynn, the #20 pick for Gasol. That way David Kahn saved face on Flynn and pairs Rubio with Gasol. Then I'd trade down from the #2 pick with the Bullets - #2 and Darko for JaVale and the #6 where I'd draft a Euro big to back up the 4/5 positions.

CDu
06-21-2011, 01:52 PM
This article (http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=20154)goes through a lot of analysis on any Lakers-Wolves deal.

I think the T-Wolves would likely want to keep Kevin Love. He of the double-double, crowd-favorite Love family.

Gasol has an $18 million salary plus a 15% trade kicker meaning more like $20 million in salary to make the deal work. So with Love at about $3 million, how does this deal work? It would take 5 Wolves to get to $20 million.

If it could work, I'd offer Love, Flynn, the #20 pick for Gasol. That way David Kahn saved face on Flynn and pairs Rubio with Gasol. Then I'd trade down from the #2 pick with the Bullets - #2 and Darko for JaVale and the #6 where I'd draft a Euro big to back up the 4/5 positions.

I don't see a Gasol deal happening unless the Wolves give up Love. And I can't see that being a sensible move. Gasol and Love pair well together.

That said, there are some possibilities. First, I don't think Minnesota has to give up $20 million in a trade. They can take on salary because they're under the cap. Right now they're $3.8 million under. So they'd need to take back about $15 million. If they wait until after July 1, they would shave $12 million off their team payroll (Eddy Curry and others come off the books), but by then we don't know what the new CBA will be. And by then the draft has gone.

A deal of Beasley, Ridnour, Ellington, Milicic and the #2 pick for Gasol works mathematically. But realistically I'm not sure how thrilled LA would be with that offer. They'd have to really like Derrick Williams I think.

tommy
06-21-2011, 04:19 PM
I don't see a Gasol deal happening unless the Wolves give up Love. And I can't see that being a sensible move. Gasol and Love pair well together.

That said, there are some possibilities. First, I don't think Minnesota has to give up $20 million in a trade. They can take on salary because they're under the cap. Right now they're $3.8 million under. So they'd need to take back about $15 million. If they wait until after July 1, they would shave $12 million off their team payroll (Eddy Curry and others come off the books), but by then we don't know what the new CBA will be. And by then the draft has gone.

A deal of Beasley, Ridnour, Ellington, Milicic and the #2 pick for Gasol works mathematically. But realistically I'm not sure how thrilled LA would be with that offer. They'd have to really like Derrick Williams I think.

The key number for the Lakers is 33. That'll be Kobe Bryant's age at next year's season opener. The Lakers have to be in win-now mode while Kobe is still an elite player. So unless they think Derrick Williams can help Kobe and the others take them places that an experienced, in-his-prime Pau Gasol can't take them right now, then they wouldn't do a deal like this. To say nothing of the fact that they wouldn't want the rest of that dreck that would come along with the #2.

JasonEvans
06-21-2011, 04:48 PM
Hope Hill and Nash get an opportunity on a contender, they both deserve one last crack.

Grant is a free agent. I would bet that once the new labor deal is worked out, he will be sorely tempted to go to a legit championship contender, perhaps for the minimum (what does Grant care about a couple million in salary at this point in his career?)

Miami might be tempting, though I am not sure how he would fit with Bron-bron and Wade, who both play on the wing, or Bosh, who plays PF.

Chicago is another tough fit as he and Deng play the same position and Deng plays big minutes for the Bulls so getting Grant as a backup doesn't really make sense. Could Grant play 2-Guard for the Bulls?

I could see the Lakers as an option, Boston too.

But, and I am totally guessing here, there is someplace else Grant could go where there is a huge need for him and where he could be welcomed as a hero (in the one town where he is not a hero at this point in his career)... Orlando. The Magic need a SF (Hedo is just bad at this point) and I think Grant's game would fit quite nicely with Howard's.

Again, I am just blindly speculating, but I see Grant leaving Phoenix for a contender as he enters the final year or two of his career.

-Jason "I'd love to see Grant get a deep playoff run before his career is done" Evans

superdave
06-21-2011, 05:25 PM
A deal of Beasley, Ridnour, Ellington, Milicic and the #2 pick for Gasol works mathematically. But realistically I'm not sure how thrilled LA would be with that offer. They'd have to really like Derrick Williams I think.

The Lakers would have roughly the population of East Timor under contract if they did that.

How do trading draft picks work with making the $s fit under the cap? Do you basically trade the cap hold for that pick?

What about 2nd round draft picks that are not guaranteed so they have no cap hold? The Lakers have 4 second round picks this year. Could be an asset.

CDu
06-21-2011, 06:18 PM
The Lakers would have roughly the population of East Timor under contract if they did that.

How do trading draft picks work with making the $s fit under the cap? Do you basically trade the cap hold for that pick?

What about 2nd round draft picks that are not guaranteed so they have no cap hold? The Lakers have 4 second round picks this year. Could be an asset.

The Lakers would waive many of those guys, so the number of players doesn't matter. I don't know if draft picks have a dollar value in a trade. But I think it's largely irrelevant - especially the 2nd rounders. The Lakers would be the ones acquiring picks, not the other way around. But the T-Wolves aren't going to mortgage their future for Gasol (they'd still be a building team and could use draft picks). And the Lakers aren't going to trade Gasol for a bunch of second-tier players during what's left of Bryant's "prime."

Basically, unless Love and the #2 pick are both involved, I don't see the Lakers biting. And if Love and the #2 pick are involved, I don't see the T-Wolves biting. But stranger things have happened. In fact, stranger things have happened specifically involving Gasol trades.

CDu
06-21-2011, 06:59 PM
Grant is a free agent. I would bet that once the new labor deal is worked out, he will be sorely tempted to go to a legit championship contender, perhaps for the minimum (what does Grant care about a couple million in salary at this point in his career?)

Miami might be tempting, though I am not sure how he would fit with Bron-bron and Wade, who both play on the wing, or Bosh, who plays PF.

Chicago is another tough fit as he and Deng play the same position and Deng plays big minutes for the Bulls so getting Grant as a backup doesn't really make sense. Could Grant play 2-Guard for the Bulls?

I could see the Lakers as an option, Boston too.

But, and I am totally guessing here, there is someplace else Grant could go where there is a huge need for him and where he could be welcomed as a hero (in the one town where he is not a hero at this point in his career)... Orlando. The Magic need a SF (Hedo is just bad at this point) and I think Grant's game would fit quite nicely with Howard's.

Again, I am just blindly speculating, but I see Grant leaving Phoenix for a contender as he enters the final year or two of his career.

-Jason "I'd love to see Grant get a deep playoff run before his career is done" Evans

Yeah, the Magic are pretty much the only contenders that have a spot for Hill. But the Magic are way over the cap, so he'd have to take the minimum to play at either place. And then Orlando would have to make the decision to cut back on Turkoglu's minutes.

If Hill went to Boston, Chicago, Miami, or Oklahoma City, he'd be backing up a guy who plays major minutes. If he went to LA or Memphis, he'd be competing with another defensive-minded small forward for minutes.

Basically, Hill will have to take the minimum and be willing to take a greatly reduced role if he wants to go to a contender.

nmduke2001
06-22-2011, 10:51 AM
Basically, Hill will have to take the minimum and be willing to take a greatly reduced role if he wants to go to a contender.

Could Grant fit with the Oklahoma City Thunder at SG? Sefolosha is the starter at the position now. He doesn't bring much offensively. Grant played the 2 spot sometimes in Phoenix. Hell, he could play the point on offense and let Westbrook play off the ball. He was the primary ball handler for most of his time in Detroit.

CDu
06-22-2011, 11:00 AM
Could Grant fit with the Oklahoma City Thunder at SG? Sefolosha is the starter at the position now. He doesn't bring much offensively. Grant played the 2 spot sometimes in Phoenix. Hell, he could play the point on offense and let Westbrook play off the ball. He was the primary ball handler for most of his time in Detroit.

If Hill could play SG, he'd have a few more doors open. He could play in Chicago (they could use a starter), OKC (he'd have to compete with Harden for minutes there) or Memphis (battling with Mayo). He could even replace Stephenson in the rotation with Kidd, Terry, and Barea at guard.

That said, I do wonder if he has the wheels left to defend at the SG spot. But if he does, I'd love to see him in Chicago.

Class of '94
06-22-2011, 11:05 AM
Yeah, the Magic are pretty much the only contenders that have a spot for Hill. But the Magic are way over the cap, so he'd have to take the minimum to play at either place. And then Orlando would have to make the decision to cut back on Turkoglu's minutes.

If Hill went to Boston, Chicago, Miami, or Oklahoma City, he'd be backing up a guy who plays major minutes. If he went to LA or Memphis, he'd be competing with another defensive-minded small forward for minutes.

Basically, Hill will have to take the minimum and be willing to take a greatly reduced role if he wants to go to a contender.

I know I'm a big Grant Hill supporter; but seriously, is Paul Pierce at this point of his career that much better than Grant? When I look at the two side by side, clearly Grant looks in better shape than Pierce and has played in more games during the regular season than Pierce over the last few years. And is Luol automatically better than Grant? I know he's younger but I still think Grant's a better all around player than Luol and could compete with both Pierce and Luol for minutes. I think people focus on Grant being 38 and not watching him play. I've had the opportunity to watch his games as a Phoenix player, and Grant looks good. He still moves very well and is athletic. I think Grant would fit well in any situation because of his versatility and unselfishness. In Miami, playing him with Wade, Lebron and Bosh would give Miami a very flexible unit both defensively and offensively. Orlando would be a good fit as well but I don't know if the organization would try to recruit him because of the animosity over his injury plaguede years there and his departure to Phoenix as a free agent.

superdave
06-22-2011, 11:35 AM
Could Grant fit with the Oklahoma City Thunder at SG? Sefolosha is the starter at the position now. He doesn't bring much offensively. Grant played the 2 spot sometimes in Phoenix. Hell, he could play the point on offense and let Westbrook play off the ball. He was the primary ball handler for most of his time in Detroit.

OKC would be a great fit for Grant. They could use a few vets and can play Durant at the 4 when they want to go small and create mismatches. I think Grant would be an incredibly good influence on Westbrook as well.

Boston seems to value veterans who can seamlessly fit in. Grant would be perfect there for that reason....except they have Jeff Green.

Other places where Grant could get minimum or so deals and play 25 minutes - Miami, Chicago, Knicks.

CDu
06-22-2011, 11:43 AM
I know I'm a big Grant Hill supporter; but seriously, is Paul Pierce at this point of his career that much better than Grant? When I look at the two side by side, clearly Grant looks in better shape than Pierce and has played in more games during the regular season than Pierce over the last few years. And is Luol automatically better than Grant? I know he's younger but I still think Grant's a better all around player than Luol and could compete with both Pierce and Luol for minutes.



Grant is certainly in better shape and a better defender than Pierce. But Pierce is still a better offensive player. And regardless - it doesn't matter. The Celtics aren't going to bench Pierce for another veteran player - especially one who at this point isn't a star. That's a chemistry nightmare. Hill would have to be Pierce's backup, and unless he can play SG as well there just aren't many minutes to be had in Boston.

And Deng is one of the more underrated players in the league. He's a terrific defender, has made himself a good 3pt shooter, and is terrific off the ball. Hill would not supplant Deng at the SF spot in Chicago.


I think people focus on Grant being 38 and not watching him play. I've had the opportunity to watch his games as a Phoenix player, and Grant looks good. He still moves very well and is athletic. I think Grant would fit well in any situation because of his versatility and unselfishness. In Miami, playing him with Wade, Lebron and Bosh would give Miami a very flexible unit both defensively and offensively. Orlando would be a good fit as well but I don't know if the organization would try to recruit him because of the animosity over his injury plagued years there and his departure to Phoenix as a free agent.

I'm not focusing on Hill's age at all. He's in tremendous shape. I'm merely focusing on the situations. Boston isn't going to replace Pierce with another veteran - they're going to go with Pierce until it's time to rebuild completely. Chicago isn't going to replace Deng, who they like very much.

I don't think Hill fits with what Miami wants because I don't see Miami moving James or Wade to PG, and I see them wanting better shooters than Hill to play alongside those guys. That's why a healthy Mike Miller made sense. He was a phenomenal 3pt threat and he didn't mind playing off the bench. He just had bad fortune with the hand injuries.

budwom
06-22-2011, 11:58 AM
OKC would be a great fit for Grant. They could use a few vets and can play Durant at the 4 when they want to go small and create mismatches. I think Grant would be an incredibly good influence on Westbrook as well.

Boston seems to value veterans who can seamlessly fit in. Grant would be perfect there for that reason....except they have Jeff Green.

Other places where Grant could get minimum or so deals and play 25 minutes - Miami, Chicago, Knicks.

OKC may be a fit hoopwise, but I just can't imagine anyone going home and telling his wife that he just took a great new job in Oklahoma City. Nice team and all, but living in OKC is a bit short of a dream come true.

superdave
06-22-2011, 12:00 PM
OKC may be a fit hoopwise, but I just can't imagine anyone going home and telling his wife that he just took a great new job in Oklahoma City. Nice team and all, but living in OKC is a bit short of a dream come true.

He's what, 38? He's not going to uproot his family for the last two years of his career. In all likelihood, Grant stays with Phoenix out of loyalty. I think the core of that team really likes one another, which matters.

Class of '94
06-22-2011, 12:28 PM
Grant is certainly in better shape and a better defender than Pierce. But Pierce is still a better offensive player. And regardless - it doesn't matter. The Celtics aren't going to bench Pierce for another veteran player - especially one who at this point isn't a star. That's a chemistry nightmare. Hill would have to be Pierce's backup, and unless he can play SG as well there just aren't many minutes to be had in Boston.

And Deng is one of the more underrated players in the league. He's a terrific defender, has made himself a good 3pt shooter, and is terrific off the ball. Hill would not supplant Deng at the SF spot in Chicago.



I'm not focusing on Hill's age at all. He's in tremendous shape. I'm merely focusing on the situations. Boston isn't going to replace Pierce with another veteran - they're going to go with Pierce until it's time to rebuild completely. Chicago isn't going to replace Deng, who they like very much.

I don't think Hill fits with what Miami wants because I don't see Miami moving James or Wade to PG, and I see them wanting better shooters than Hill to play alongside those guys. That's why a healthy Mike Miller made sense. He was a phenomenal 3pt threat and he didn't mind playing off the bench. He just had bad fortune with the hand injuries.

You've brought up some good points about scenarios with Boston, Chicago and Miami. I guess my feeling is because of the skills that Grant brings to the table, it doesn't automatically mean that he has to play limited scrup minutes on those teams. Rather, he could push Pierce and Luol for minutes even if both are the starters. And then factor the relationship Grant has with Doc, I think Doc Rivers would find good minutes for Grant to get on the floor and play a significant role.

superdave
06-22-2011, 01:24 PM
Gasol-Bynum-Odom for Howard-Arenas

Who says no and why?

The Lakers would be getting some cap relief if you assume they could eventually buyout the Arenas deal (3 years, $63M left ...ugh) and they'd be getting back THE center in the league. They'd still need a point guard who can distribute and score to replace Fisher.

The Magic would be getting some nice pieces in return for Howard, some of which could be moved. If they made this deal, they should try to flip Gasol and Odom for draft picks and younger players. I'd keep Bynum at the 5, Hedo at the 4 and try to get some young bigs or draft picks with my new assets. For example, Odom to the Bullets for JaVale and the #6. Or Gasol to Minny for the #2, Beasley and other stuff. Or maybe Gasol to the Bulls for Boozer and Asik.

CDu
06-22-2011, 01:51 PM
Gasol-Bynum-Odom for Howard-Arenas

Who says no and why?

The Lakers would be getting some cap relief if you assume they could eventually buyout the Arenas deal (3 years, $63M left ...ugh) and they'd be getting back THE center in the league. They'd still need a point guard who can distribute and score to replace Fisher.

The Magic would be getting some nice pieces in return for Howard, some of which could be moved. If they made this deal, they should try to flip Gasol and Odom for draft picks and younger players. I'd keep Bynum at the 5, Hedo at the 4 and try to get some young bigs or draft picks with my new assets. For example, Odom to the Bullets for JaVale and the #6. Or Gasol to Minny for the #2, Beasley and other stuff. Or maybe Gasol to the Bulls for Boozer and Asik.

I think the Lakers/Magic are the only ones who potentially match up in a trade involving Gasol, and the same in a trade involving Howard. It'd be a gutsy move because the Lakers would then be devoid of frontcourt depth (one of their strengths previously). They'd have the top post player and a top-5 perimeter player, but I'm not sure that Howard/Bryant is enough to win a title given the rest of the Lakers' roster (and given that they'd still be over the cap and without good draft picks).

If I were the Lakers, I'd want to keep Odom just to provide a bit more punch up front. But then I don't know if the Magic would want to do the deal, because Odom is a nice versatile player. Of course, I don't really have any idea what those GMs will think of it, so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

superdave
06-22-2011, 02:34 PM
I think the Lakers/Magic are the only ones who potentially match up in a trade involving Gasol, and the same in a trade involving Howard. It'd be a gutsy move because the Lakers would then be devoid of frontcourt depth (one of their strengths previously). They'd have the top post player and a top-5 perimeter player, but I'm not sure that Howard/Bryant is enough to win a title given the rest of the Lakers' roster (and given that they'd still be over the cap and without good draft picks).

If I were the Lakers, I'd want to keep Odom just to provide a bit more punch up front. But then I don't know if the Magic would want to do the deal, because Odom is a nice versatile player. Of course, I don't really have any idea what those GMs will think of it, so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

Here's two pieces of evidence of how GMs think -

First, NJ picked up Deron Williams (top 15 player, top 3 point guard) even though they did not (and still dont) have him under contract after this coming season.

Second, the Knickerbockers picked up Carmelo for half their roster and most of their future flexibility.

So I think you can conclude that if a GM thinks it can get a a top, top, top player like Dwight Howard, they will over-pay.

darjum
06-23-2011, 12:36 AM
Gasol-Bynum-Odom for Howard-Arenas

Who says no and why?

The Lakers would be getting some cap relief if you assume they could eventually buyout the Arenas deal (3 years, $63M left ...ugh) and they'd be getting back THE center in the league. They'd still need a point guard who can distribute and score to replace Fisher.

The Magic would be getting some nice pieces in return for Howard, some of which could be moved. If they made this deal, they should try to flip Gasol and Odom for draft picks and younger players. I'd keep Bynum at the 5, Hedo at the 4 and try to get some young bigs or draft picks with my new assets. For example, Odom to the Bullets for JaVale and the #6. Or Gasol to Minny for the #2, Beasley and other stuff. Or maybe Gasol to the Bulls for Boozer and Asik.

Very interesting! Personally the sticking point is the 3 years left on Arenas contract. If it were just 1 then for sure, but 3 years will basically bring Kobe to the end of his career and not allow for financial flexibility in his remaining productive years. But Dwight and Kobe would be like Shaq/Kobe part II, oh the drama!

JasonEvans
06-23-2011, 09:01 AM
I think you can conclude that if a GM thinks it can get a a top, top, top player like Dwight Howard, they will over-pay.

That's because for a player like Howard, there is almost no such thing as over-paying. Truly elite players are so rare and so essential to success, it is almost impossible to over-pay for them.

For example, let me ask this -- if you were an NBA GM, would you rather build a team around Dwight Howard and nothing else (surround him with rookies and free-agents) or would you rather take the entire roster of the Atlanta Hawks (or most any other team without an elite player)? I'd rather have Dwight and the role players, in a heartbeat.

-Jason "I say all this despite the Hawks beating the Magic in the playoffs -- because I think, long term, Dwight and whoever you surround him with will be better" Evans

JBDuke
06-23-2011, 09:17 AM
... I'd keep Bynum at the 5, Hedo at the 4 and try to get some young bigs or draft picks with my new assets. For example, Odom to the Bullets for JaVale and the #6. Or Gasol to Minny for the #2, Beasley and other stuff. Or maybe Gasol to the Bulls for Boozer and Asik.

I know you're just having fun with the speculation, but what in the world makes you think the Wizards would trade McGee AND the #6 pick for Odom? They'd be trading away a dynamic young shot-blocking center for an old, often passive PF. I wouldn't do that trade straight up if I was Ernie Grunfeld, and I certainly wouldn't throw in the #6 pick.

CDu
06-23-2011, 09:19 AM
Here's two pieces of evidence of how GMs think -

First, NJ picked up Deron Williams (top 15 player, top 3 point guard) even though they did not (and still dont) have him under contract after this coming season.

Second, the Knickerbockers picked up Carmelo for half their roster and most of their future flexibility.

So I think you can conclude that if a GM thinks it can get a a top, top, top player like Dwight Howard, they will over-pay.

I wouldn't put the Nets' GM in the same category as the Lakers' GM. And the Knicks weren't trading three proven players (two of them All-Star caliber and the third a very good center) in the Anthony trade.

I agree that GMs will overpay to get superstars. But the Lakers' GM is a good one. I don't think he'd gut the team for Howard. I'd trade any two of those three (plus anything else not named Kobe) for Howard (plus change, if necessary). But I don't see the Lakers trading their entire frontcourt for Howard and Arenas.

CDu
06-23-2011, 09:24 AM
I know you're just having fun with the speculation, but what in the world makes you think the Wizards would trade McGee AND the #6 pick for Odom? They'd be trading away a dynamic young shot-blocking center for an old, often passive PF. I wouldn't do that trade straight up if I was Ernie Grunfeld, and I certainly wouldn't throw in the #6 pick.

Agreed. That's a great trade from the Magic perspective, but a terrible one from the Wizards perspective.

Also, Gasol to Minnesota for the #2, Beasley, and other stuff doesn't sound make sense for the Magic. They'd be giving up by far the best player, and they'd be getting back two guys (Beasley and presumably Williams) who play the same position as Odom and don't rebound all that much.

superdave
06-23-2011, 09:31 AM
I know you're just having fun with the speculation, but what in the world makes you think the Wizards would trade McGee AND the #6 pick for Odom? They'd be trading away a dynamic young shot-blocking center for an old, often passive PF. I wouldn't do that trade straight up if I was Ernie Grunfeld, and I certainly wouldn't throw in the #6 pick.

Honestly, I dont think JaVale McGee has any discernible basketball skills. He's a run-jump athlete who can dunk and block shots. That's a really really good thing, but he has no offensive moves, finds himself out of position on defense a lot and relies solely on athleticism. So in NBA terms he's got a lot of upside. He can get a move or two, but he's a 10-10 guy at best. Not that that is a bad thing in the league....

The main issue is the high knucklehead factor (http://www.aolnews.com/2010/12/26/wizards-suspend-andray-blatche-javale-mcgee-following-altercati/) in the Wiz locker room. One of these two guys probably needs to go. Also, Derrick Williams running the floor with John Wall would be in the words of Bill Walton "a magnificent thing of beauty to behold, like a gazelle bounding across the grasslands of sub-Saharan Africa." I'd personally rather trade Blatche than McGee, because I think McGee is a good kid.

superdave
06-23-2011, 09:37 AM
That's because for a player like Howard, there is almost no such thing as over-paying. Truly elite players are so rare and so essential to success, it is almost impossible to over-pay for them.

For example, let me ask this -- if you were an NBA GM, would you rather build a team around Dwight Howard and nothing else (surround him with rookies and free-agents) or would you rather take the entire roster of the Atlanta Hawks (or most any other team without an elite player)? I'd rather have Dwight and the role players, in a heartbeat.

-Jason "I say all this despite the Hawks beating the Magic in the playoffs -- because I think, long term, Dwight and whoever you surround him with will be better" Evans

Agreed. If the Knicks were willing to sell their souls for Carmelo, imagine the deals that would get offered for Howard!

I have read that Buss Jr. (Baby Buss?) looooves Andrew Bynum though and thinks he's the future. So we may not be dealing with a savvy owner. If you can get Howard, you GET Howard and figure out the rest later.

superdave
06-23-2011, 09:42 AM
Agreed. That's a great trade from the Magic perspective, but a terrible one from the Wizards perspective.

Also, Gasol to Minnesota for the #2, Beasley, and other stuff doesn't sound make sense for the Magic. They'd be giving up by far the best player, and they'd be getting back two guys (Beasley and presumably Williams) who play the same position as Odom and don't rebound all that much.

My main point about the Magic flipping Gasol and Odom is that the Magic would be in re-building mode there presumably. Can you win the East with the following lineup - Gasol, Bass, Hedo, Jameer, Redick, Jason Richardson and Bynum and Odom? I dont think so - too many slow bigs. They'd need to flip two of those 4/5s for a dominant 1, 2 or 3.

Further, that Magic team would have no #1 option. It's all complimentary players and no one who could carry the team for a whole game much less a playoff series. So I'd get younger, quicker and seek a dominant scorer.

superdave
06-23-2011, 12:50 PM
Tony Parker (the former Mr Longoria, not the Duke recruit) for Nicholas Batum and Andre Miller. Good move for Portland, curious for San Anton. The Spurs apparently want to include Richard Jefferson if they can but Portland balked.

Andre Igoudala for Lamar Odom. Wither Ron Artest...

OKC is offering the #24 and Eric Maynor (!) to move up in the draft to get Valanciunas. Two things stand out here - Could Maynor start so that Westbrook can move to the 2? Could Maynor alone be worth a lottery pick? I'd take him over Kemba or anyone not named Irving, Williams, Knight or Kanter. Kids going to be good.

JasonEvans
06-23-2011, 01:04 PM
Ready for it...

This totally makes sense for both teams and (I checked) it even works under the current salary cap rules.

Ready?

Dwight Howard for Lebron James

You read that right. And both teams would benefit from it.

Miami has already learned the hard way that Wade and James are not the seamless, logical fit that Miami thought they would be. They each do a lot of the same things and the sum of the whole was less than the sum of the parts. Adding Dwight would give Miami a piece they don't already have while removing a piece that is at least somewhat redundant in their system.

As for Orlando, Bron-bron would have better teammates in Orlando than he ever had in Cleveland and he would, once again, be given the freedom he did not have in Miami to dominate the ball and the team. He would return to being the MVP that he was in Cleveland, except with teammates like Jameer, JJ, Hedu, and others who are a far, far better supporting cast than the one he had in Cleveland.

So, wouldn't each team benefit from this trade? Wouldn't both the players involved benefit as well? The fan bases of each team would probably embrace it as well. This is a win-win, which is extremely rare when trading a stud player.

The only mild problem is that they are in the same conference and I suspect Lebron would be really, really, really motivated to beat Miami. Orlando might also run the risk that Lebron would bolt after his contract is up in 2 years, but they already risk losing Dwight in 1 year so they get one more season out of their superstar under this scenario. I also suspect that Lebron will enjoy being "the man" again for a team versus being "the co-man" like he was with DWade.

--Jason "someone tell me this does not make sense? I should be a GM, right?!" Evans

JasonEvans
06-23-2011, 01:14 PM
OKC is offering the #24 and Eric Maynor (!) to move up in the draft to get Valanciunas. Two things stand out here - Could Maynor start so that Westbrook can move to the 2? Could Maynor alone be worth a lottery pick? I'd take him over Kemba or anyone not named Irving, Williams, Knight or Kanter. Kids going to be good.

Hey, I like Maynor and think he has a good future, but we are talking about a kid who averaged all of 4.2 ppg this season in 15 mpg of playing time. Even if you extrapolate his statistics to make him a starter (and play 36 min per game), he is only 10.4 ppg, 7.1 apg, and 3.6 rpg. Those are not exactly studly statistics.

-Jason "again, Maynor is a very nice backup PG and he has potential, but he ain't that great" Evans

tommy
06-23-2011, 01:23 PM
Hey, I like Maynor and think he has a good future, but we are talking about a kid who averaged all of 4.2 ppg this season in 15 mpg of playing time. Even if you extrapolate his statistics to make him a starter (and play 36 min per game), he is only 10.4 ppg, 7.1 apg, and 3.6 rpg. Those are not exactly studly statistics.

-Jason "again, Maynor is a very nice backup PG and he has potential, but he ain't that great" Evans

I'd like to see the Thunder make that deal and then take Nolan Smith with their late first round pick. He could fill a role similar to what Maynor was doing and I'd love to see Nolan be part of a young, talented, up-and-coming team that is being run by a very savvy GM in Sam Presti.

PADukeMom
06-23-2011, 01:46 PM
As long as the Heat have Sweet Baby James, I will enjoy watching them lose, so I don't want to see any Dukies on their roster.

My thoughts exactly.

Class of '94
06-23-2011, 01:51 PM
Ready for it...

This totally makes sense for both teams and (I checked) it even works under the current salary cap rules.

Ready?

Dwight Howard for Lebron James

You read that right. And both teams would benefit from it.

Miami has already learned the hard way that Wade and James are not the seamless, logical fit that Miami thought they would be. They each do a lot of the same things and the sum of the whole was less than the sum of the parts. Adding Dwight would give Miami a piece they don't already have while removing a piece that is at least somewhat redundant in their system.

As for Orlando, Bron-bron would have better teammates in Orlando than he ever had in Cleveland and he would, once again, be given the freedom he did not have in Miami to dominate the ball and the team. He would return to being the MVP that he was in Cleveland, except with teammates like Jameer, JJ, Hedu, and others who are a far, far better supporting cast than the one he had in Cleveland.

So, wouldn't each team benefit from this trade? Wouldn't both the players involved benefit as well? The fan bases of each team would probably embrace it as well. This is a win-win, which is extremely rare when trading a stud player.

The only mild problem is that they are in the same conference and I suspect Lebron would be really, really, really motivated to beat Miami. Orlando might also run the risk that Lebron would bolt after his contract is up in 2 years, but they already risk losing Dwight in 1 year so they get one more season out of their superstar under this scenario. I also suspect that Lebron will enjoy being "the man" again for a team versus being "the co-man" like he was with DWade.

--Jason "someone tell me this does not make sense? I should be a GM, right?!" Evans

I think it would be a good trade for both teams; but I don't know how much Lebron would have in Orlando with Stan Van Gundy the coach there. Just ask Gilbert Arenas, Jason Richardson and JJ.

tux
06-23-2011, 02:08 PM
Ready for it...

This totally makes sense for both teams and (I checked) it even works under the current salary cap rules.

Ready?

Dwight Howard for Lebron James

You read that right. And both teams would benefit from it.

Miami has already learned the hard way that Wade and James are not the seamless, logical fit that Miami thought they would be. They each do a lot of the same things and the sum of the whole was less than the sum of the parts. Adding Dwight would give Miami a piece they don't already have while removing a piece that is at least somewhat redundant in their system.

As for Orlando, Bron-bron would have better teammates in Orlando than he ever had in Cleveland and he would, once again, be given the freedom he did not have in Miami to dominate the ball and the team. He would return to being the MVP that he was in Cleveland, except with teammates like Jameer, JJ, Hedu, and others who are a far, far better supporting cast than the one he had in Cleveland.

So, wouldn't each team benefit from this trade? Wouldn't both the players involved benefit as well? The fan bases of each team would probably embrace it as well. This is a win-win, which is extremely rare when trading a stud player.

The only mild problem is that they are in the same conference and I suspect Lebron would be really, really, really motivated to beat Miami. Orlando might also run the risk that Lebron would bolt after his contract is up in 2 years, but they already risk losing Dwight in 1 year so they get one more season out of their superstar under this scenario. I also suspect that Lebron will enjoy being "the man" again for a team versus being "the co-man" like he was with DWade.

--Jason "someone tell me this does not make sense? I should be a GM, right?!" Evans

The trade makes sense (more for Miami IMO), but I think it would be better for the Heat to try one more time with this group (I think Riley's ego is telling him that too) and then they could still use one of their big 3 next year to maybe snag a high pick in what should be a much better draft.

superdave
06-23-2011, 02:51 PM
Hey, I like Maynor and think he has a good future, but we are talking about a kid who averaged all of 4.2 ppg this season in 15 mpg of playing time. Even if you extrapolate his statistics to make him a starter (and play 36 min per game), he is only 10.4 ppg, 7.1 apg, and 3.6 rpg. Those are not exactly studly statistics.

-Jason "again, Maynor is a very nice backup PG and he has potential, but he ain't that great" Evans

Where would you rank Maynor if he were a college kid coming out tonight? Behind Irving, Kemba and Knight? So he'd maybe go 10-12, right? I would not put Nolan ahead of him.

I think Maynor can be a starter in this league like Darren Collison or the like. Potential in the mind of a GM is just as important as potential....scary but true.

NSDukeFan
06-23-2011, 03:43 PM
Tony Parker (the former Mr Longoria, not the Duke recruit) for Nicholas Batum and Andre Miller. Good move for Portland, curious for San Anton. The Spurs apparently want to include Richard Jefferson if they can but Portland balked.

Andre Igoudala for Lamar Odom. Wither Ron Artest...

OKC is offering the #24 and Eric Maynor (!) to move up in the draft to get Valanciunas. Two things stand out here - Could Maynor start so that Westbrook can move to the 2? Could Maynor alone be worth a lottery pick? I'd take him over Kemba or anyone not named Irving, Williams, Knight or Kanter. Kids going to be good.

I have seen Parker mentioned in a few trade rumors, including for draft picks 5 or 6 (Raptors and Wizards?) I don't get it. He is a 3-time all-star in his prime on a team with the rest of its nucleus past their prime. I don't know if there is anyone in the draft that is guaranteed to be better than Tony Parker, though I certainly hope that Kyrie ends up there. My impression is that this is a weak draft (except for Kyrie, Kyle and Nolan) and I can't understand why the Spurs would give up Parker for a pick this year. Next year, sure, but not this year. But, they deserve the benefit of the doubt much more than I do. Can anyone explain their rationale for discussing these trades to me?

superdave
06-23-2011, 04:04 PM
I have seen Parker mentioned in a few trade rumors, including for draft picks 5 or 6 (Raptors and Wizards?) I don't get it. He is a 3-time all-star in his prime on a team with the rest of its nucleus past their prime. I don't know if there is anyone in the draft that is guaranteed to be better than Tony Parker, though I certainly hope that Kyrie ends up there. My impression is that this is a weak draft (except for Kyrie, Kyle and Nolan) and I can't understand why the Spurs would give up Parker for a pick this year. Next year, sure, but not this year. But, they deserve the benefit of the doubt much more than I do. Can anyone explain their rationale for discussing these trades to me?

Agreed. If the Spurs want to blow it up and start over, the trade Parker for a top 5 pick. But dont do that until Duncan is put out to pasture.

Also, if they think they can retool and make one last run with Duncan, then Parker is their best trade chip and they apparently think he's expendable with George Hill on the team. If that's the case, then they have a need for a scorer who fits the system. So who would that be? Certainly not Batum. Seems to me they are a year away from this move.

brevity
06-23-2011, 05:35 PM
Well, the first shot is fired, and there's some local interest. Full story here (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2011/news/story?id=6697545).


The Bucks will get [Stephen] Jackson and Charlotte's Shaun Livingston, Sacramento's Beno Udrih and the 19th pick from the Bobcats in Thursday night's draft, while Charlotte obtains the No. 7 pick from Sacramento and forward Corey Maggette from Milwaukee.

The Kings will get guard John Salmons from Milwaukee and the 10th pick in the draft. Charlotte will hold onto the No. 9 pick.

Not the sexiest headline, but it could be significant if NBA Draft night ends up not being the freewheeling trade orgy that everyone seems to think it will be.

sporthenry
06-23-2011, 05:48 PM
Well, the first shot is fired, and there's some local interest. Full story here (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2011/news/story?id=6697545).



Not the sexiest headline, but it could be significant if NBA Draft night ends up not being the freewheeling trade orgy that everyone seems to think it will be.

It also probably opens the door for G to start. Not many SGs in this draft and at 7 and 9, it is probably too high for Burks. They could get Leonard or Thompson but both can play SF so I'd think G should get his shot to show his stuff.

darjum
06-24-2011, 01:02 AM
I have seen Parker mentioned in a few trade rumors, including for draft picks 5 or 6 (Raptors and Wizards?) I don't get it. He is a 3-time all-star in his prime on a team with the rest of its nucleus past their prime. I don't know if there is anyone in the draft that is guaranteed to be better than Tony Parker, though I certainly hope that Kyrie ends up there. My impression is that this is a weak draft (except for Kyrie, Kyle and Nolan) and I can't understand why the Spurs would give up Parker for a pick this year. Next year, sure, but not this year. But, they deserve the benefit of the doubt much more than I do. Can anyone explain their rationale for discussing these trades to me?

Cheat on Eva Longoria and you should be traded to Syberia...fool!

NSDukeFan
06-24-2011, 07:27 AM
Cheat on Eva Longoria and you should be traded to Syberia...fool!

You have to make good decisions as a point guard and this shows he sometimes doesn't. Makes more sense to me now.

superdave
06-24-2011, 09:51 AM
Dallas picked up Rudy Fernandez last night. They quietly got better at the guard position with this move. Rudy is 26 years old and averaged 9ppg the last couple of seasons in 23 minutes a night. If he gives them enough minutes to rest Kidd and Terry when Stevenson and Barea are having off nights then he will have earned his money.

Class of '94
06-24-2011, 10:19 AM
It looks like Phoenix is committed to keep Nash; and have plans to resign Grant. If that does occur, I think Phoenix should go after Portland's Brandon Roy. Phoenix's biggest need right now is a 2-guard since it is highly unlikely they keep Vinsanity. Roy would be a great fit in Phoenix's system; and since Portland played at least half the season without Roy, Portland could afford to trade Roy for size. Portland needs size with the question marks that Greg Oden has right now. Why not trade some combination of 7ft center Robin Lopez and some bench players (or possibly Vince Carter if possible) for Roy? It would give Portland a replacement for Oden and more size while it gives Phoenix a legit 2-guard to team up with Nash and Grant.

superdave
06-24-2011, 11:09 AM
It looks like Phoenix is committed to keep Nash; and have plans to resign Grant. If that does occur, I think Phoenix should go after Portland's Brandon Roy. Phoenix's biggest need right now is a 2-guard since it is highly unlikely they keep Vinsanity. Roy would be a great fit in Phoenix's system; and since Portland played at least half the season without Roy, Portland could afford to trade Roy for size. Portland needs size with the question marks that Greg Oden has right now. Why not trade some combination of 7ft center Robin Lopez and some bench players (or possibly Vince Carter if possible) for Roy? It would give Portland a replacement for Oden and more size while it gives Phoenix a legit 2-guard to team up with Nash and Grant.

A couple issues here -

Suns just bought out Vince this week. He's not likely to come back
Grant is an unrestricted free agent and may want a last shot at a ring (ie not in Phoenix).
Robin Lopez is a relatively inexpensive key piece to their future. Trading him would not be wise.
Brandon Roy's knee is made of spaghetti. He is NOT worth the risk and Portland is fine with holding on to him for whatever he has left in the tank, but I'm not sure any other team is.

Class of '94
06-24-2011, 11:23 AM
A couple issues here -

Suns just bought out Vince this week. He's not likely to come back
Grant is an unrestricted free agent and may want a last shot at a ring (ie not in Phoenix).
Robin Lopez is a relatively inexpensive key piece to their future. Trading him would not be wise.
Brandon Roy's knee is made of spaghetti. He is NOT worth the risk and Portland is fine with holding on to him for whatever he has left in the tank, but I'm not sure any other team is.


1) The Suns and Vince mutually agreed to extend the deadline to buy his contract out in order to give Phoenix more time to decide what they want to do with Vince and it kept them from having to cut a 4 million dollar check right now.

2)Unless a contending team wows him and gives him a great offer or the Suns trade Nash (or the Suns give him an unacceptable offer), all indications point to him resigning with Phoenix based on reports in the local media. Grant loves the training staff in Phoenix and is very close to Steve Nash.

3)The management and coaching staff have begun to sour on Lopez based on his lack of production last year and the injuries he's had the last couple of years. Reports out of Phoenix have Robin on the trading block.

4) Brandon's knee is shaky but Phoenix does have one of the best if not the best training staff in the league. They've done wonders for Nash and Grant; and if the staff is able to evaluate Brandon and feel that they could get Roy over the hump with his knee, I think Phoenix would take a chance on Roy because they want a scoring 2 guard to replace the production they lost when they traded Jason Richardson and (possibly releasing Carter unless they can package him in a trade).

superdave
06-24-2011, 11:28 AM
1) The Suns and Vince mutually agreed to extend the deadline to buy his contract out in order to give Phoenix more time to decide what they want to do with Vince and it kept them from having to cut a 4 million dollar check right now.

2)Unless a contending team wows him and gives him a great offer or the Suns trade Nash (or the Suns give him an unacceptable offer), all signes point to him resigning with Phoenix based on reports in the local media. Grant loves the training staff in Phoenix and is very close to Steve Nash.

3)The management and coaching staff have begun to sour on Lopez based on his lack of production last year and the injuries he's had the last couple of years. Reports out of Phoenix have Robin on the trading block.

4) Brandon's knee is shaky but Phoenix does have one of the best if not the best training staff in the league. They've done wonders for Nash and Grant; and if the staff is able to evaluate Brandon and feel that they could get Roy over the hump with his knee, I think Phoenix would take a chance on Roy because they want a scoring 2 guard to replace the production they lost when they traded Jason Richardson and (possibly releasing Carter unless they can package him in a trade).

All good counterpoints. But where does bringing in Roy get Phoenix? They missed the playoffs this past season and are all a year older and slower. If you assume Roy gives you 18-20 a night then that helps and may be worth the extra half-dozen wins needed to get back into the playoffs, but he's not going to be a workhorse for you.

So does Phoenix blow things up now and trade Nash while he has some trade value left? Or do they try to sneak in one more year by bringing in Roy plus another scorer?

I'd be inclined to let Nash decide if he wants to go play for a contender or finish up in Phoenix. He's earned that deference.

CDu
06-24-2011, 12:35 PM
Dallas picked up Rudy Fernandez last night. They quietly got better at the guard position with this move. Rudy is 26 years old and averaged 9ppg the last couple of seasons in 23 minutes a night. If he gives them enough minutes to rest Kidd and Terry when Stevenson and Barea are having off nights then he will have earned his money.

Yeah, or they can replace Stevenson with Fernandez in the rotation. Either way, it's good depth. And they add Butler to the mix at SF. If they can retain Chandler (that'll merely be an issue of the salary cap as I'd assume he wants to come back and Cuban is willing to pay). That's an excellent job of reloading.

Des Esseintes
06-24-2011, 01:42 PM
4) Brandon's knee is shaky but Phoenix does have one of the best if not the best training staff in the league. They've done wonders for Nash and Grant; and if the staff is able to evaluate Brandon and feel that they could get Roy over the hump with his knee, I think Phoenix would take a chance on Roy because they want a scoring 2 guard to replace the production they lost when they traded Jason Richardson and (possibly releasing Carter unless they can package him in a trade).

http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/blazers.jsp
That first line there explains why Brandon Roy will not be competing for the Phoenix Suns. With a good attitude--something Roy has not yet coming close to showing--and a great training staff, he might be a strong sixth man from here forward. A penurious team such as Phoenix is not going to pay that kind of money for a sixth man. Particularly a sixth man with no cartilage in his knee and a conviction that he remains an All-Star caliber guard deserving of starter minutes.

superdave
06-25-2011, 09:31 AM
With the addition of Felton and the subtraction of Miller, Portland is intriguing.

Aldridge, Camby, Wallace across the front line with Batum as backup. Or they could go smaller with Aldridge at C and Wallace at the 4 and run teams out of the gym with Felton.

In the backcourt they have Felton, Matthews and Nolan and Roy in supporting roles.

They seem just good enough to win 50 games but not good enough to make the conference Finals. Seems like they need to add another big man....will Oden sign and show up for 15 minutes a night for a whole season? Do they continue to use Roy as a 6th man and closer?

darjum
06-25-2011, 11:01 PM
With the addition of Felton and the subtraction of Miller, Portland is intriguing.

Aldridge, Camby, Wallace across the front line with Batum as backup. Or they could go smaller with Aldridge at C and Wallace at the 4 and run teams out of the gym with Felton.

In the backcourt they have Felton, Matthews and Nolan and Roy in supporting roles.

They seem just good enough to win 50 games but not good enough to make the conference Finals. Seems like they need to add another big man....will Oden sign and show up for 15 minutes a night for a whole season? Do they continue to use Roy as a 6th man and closer?

Yes, it's the dynasty that never happened. They had two players who potentially could have been top 15 for the majority of their careers in Oden and Roy, A perennial all-star in LMA (one of my personal favorites in the NBA) and some really nice role players.

Instead you are right, 50 wins for 3-4 years, maybe a second rnd appearance and that's it. Eventually they'll blow it up and start again. The only thing can prevent that is Oden and Roy having a 80-100% health recoveries, which I doubt. A real shame, had Roy and Oden been healthy their battles with OKC over the next 5-10 years would have been ESPN classic material.

nmduke2001
06-25-2011, 11:15 PM
would Pat Riley entertain a trade of LBJ straight up for Dwight Howard? It works for Miami because Wade and LBJ are basically the same guy and don't work well together in my opinion. Also, the Heat need interior help. It works for Orlando because they get equal value for Dwight.


Ready for it...

This totally makes sense for both teams and (I checked) it even works under the current salary cap rules.

Ready?

Dwight Howard for Lebron James

You read that right. And both teams would benefit from it.



--Jason "someone tell me this does not make sense? I should be a GM, right?!" Evans

Jason, I posted this idea on 6/16. It really is a perfect trade.

wk2109
06-26-2011, 12:42 AM
With the addition of Felton and the subtraction of Miller, Portland is intriguing.

Aldridge, Camby, Wallace across the front line with Batum as backup. Or they could go smaller with Aldridge at C and Wallace at the 4 and run teams out of the gym with Felton.

In the backcourt they have Felton, Matthews and Nolan and Roy in supporting roles.

They seem just good enough to win 50 games but not good enough to make the conference Finals. Seems like they need to add another big man....will Oden sign and show up for 15 minutes a night for a whole season? Do they continue to use Roy as a 6th man and closer?

Don't forget about Elliot. I realized today that he'll be reunited with Nolan.

superdave
06-27-2011, 02:53 PM
Granted we have no idea how the labor stuff will play out, but here's Espn the Mag's list (insider) (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/news/story?id=6691096):

1. Tyson Chandler
2. Nene
3. Marc Gasol
4. David West (knee surgery, right?)
5. Thaddeus Young (really?)
6. Jamal Crawford

He says two more parts of the list are coming. I hope so because I'm going to be annoyed if Thaddeus Young and Jamal Crawford are in the top 10 without further explanation....

I bet Chandler and Gasol stay put. I dont know if Miami, Boston or another contender can afford to pay Nene $10-12 M but he's likely to jump ship if they could.

JasonEvans
06-27-2011, 03:54 PM
Granted we have no idea how the labor stuff will play out, but here's Espn the Mag's list (insider) (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/news/story?id=6691096):

1. Tyson Chandler
2. Nene
3. Marc Gasol
4. David West (knee surgery, right?)
5. Thaddeus Young (really?)
6. Jamal Crawford

He says two more parts of the list are coming. I hope so because I'm going to be annoyed if Thaddeus Young and Jamal Crawford are in the top 10 without further explanation....

I bet Chandler and Gasol stay put. I dont know if Miami, Boston or another contender can afford to pay Nene $10-12 M but he's likely to jump ship if they could.

Well, TYoung is only 22 years old and has been a teen scorer in the NBA for 3 seasons in a row. He shoots at a very high percentage and rebounds pretty well too. He is not a stud, but he's a solid contributor and probably a starter on darn near any team in the league as he continues to mature.

For reference, though he is 4 years in the league, he is younger than Kyle and Nolan.

Jamaal Crawford was NBA 6th man of the year 12 months ago and showed in the playoffs that he can carry a team on his back when his shot is on. Make no mistake, he is a black hole on offense and a poor defender, but it is not like the dude is worthless. His asking price is likely to be too high for his value, but he would make a ton of very good teams a bit better with his off-the-bench scoring punch.

I think it may be a sign of this year's free agent class that these guys are the best of the best.

-Jason "I have not looked very closely at this year's FAs" Evans

superdave
06-27-2011, 05:19 PM
Well, TYoung is only 22 years old and has been a teen scorer in the NBA for 3 seasons in a row. He shoots at a very high percentage and rebounds pretty well too. He is not a stud, but he's a solid contributor and probably a starter on darn near any team in the league as he continues to mature.

For reference, though he is 4 years in the league, he is younger than Kyle and Nolan.

Jamaal Crawford was NBA 6th man of the year 12 months ago and showed in the playoffs that he can carry a team on his back when his shot is on. Make no mistake, he is a black hole on offense and a poor defender, but it is not like the dude is worthless. His asking price is likely to be too high for his value, but he would make a ton of very good teams a bit better with his off-the-bench scoring punch.

I think it may be a sign of this year's free agent class that these guys are the best of the best.

-Jason "I have not looked very closely at this year's FAs" Evans

Just goes to show how different this year's FA class is compared to Wade, LeBron, Bosh, Johnson, Boozer, Amare last year. Melo would have been the big one but pre-empted the summer with the sign-and-trade.

This is due to the differences in talent level between the 2003 and 2004 NBA drafts (http://www.nba.com/draft2004/board.html), as well as to the decisions a few years back by Wade and James to extend their contracts a shorter # of years.

superdave
06-29-2011, 02:00 PM
Bucher and Broussard have a cool back and forth about these three guys and what destinations make sense for them via trade next season. It's Insider but here's the linky (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/news/story?id=6715287).

For Howard, Bucher argues that NJ/Brooklyn would be ideal if the Nets can re-sign Deron Williams. Makes sense and NJ could trade Lopez and maybe Kim Kardashian to make it work. Broussard argues that the Knicks could send either Melo or Amare in exchange for Howard. I dont like that chemistry though...

For Paul, Bucher argues that NY or Portland is ideal. But Portland just got Felton and probably needs to sort out Roy first. And the Knicks would trade Amare for Paul, but I'm not sure the Hornets would. Broussard suggests OKC would send Westbrook for Paul and I think that makes sense on a lot of levels. OKC would be a monster with a proper setup man. Please, basketball gods!

For Deron, Bucher suggests NJ could add another all-star and build around Deron which is true. I think Prokorov will spend when the timing is right. He also throws out the Lakers,which makes sense too. They could trade Gasol and picks for Deron (but only if Deron refuses to re-sign in NJ). Broussard suggests the Clippers as the ideal spot. That would be a juggernaut if it worked.

superdave
06-29-2011, 04:56 PM
Via Espn Insider (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/news/story?id=6715519)...does not count any of their own free agents they will re-sign.

Kings $24.9
Pacers $20
Nets $16
Wiz $11.8
Clips $11.5
Raptors $7.5

BD80
06-29-2011, 05:32 PM
Via Espn Insider (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/news/story?id=6715519)...does not count any of their own free agents they will re-sign.

Kings $24.9
Pacers $20
Nets $16
Wiz $11.8
Clips $11.5
Raptors $7.5

The Nets are likely the only ones of the 6 that will spend the entire amount. The Maloofs would, but they are not all that content in Sac right now.

JasonEvans
06-30-2011, 12:57 AM
Until there is a new collective bargaining deal in place, we have no idea what the cap will look like, let alone how much space anyone will have.

-Jason "you won't see any free agent moves or trades until the CBA is done... probably not for months" Evans

superdave
06-30-2011, 09:22 AM
Portland tendered an offer to Greg Oden or something. That sounds, like, really awkward but they did it anyway cause they still like him.

So they gave him an $8.8 million offer sheet before today's deadline which allows Portland to match any offer to Oden on the free agency market since he's a restricted free agent. Here's the article. (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=6717753) The article does not say how long the offer is for.

This is similar to how Orlando gave Redick an offer sheet and wound up matching what the Bulls offered last summer.

Oden has averaged 9.4 and 7.3 in 22 minutes per game for all 82 games he's appeared in over the last 4 seasons (of which he's played parts of 2). He could be the missing piece to their puzzle if he can stay healthy. I feel bad for Portland with Roy and Oden's injuries.

CDu
06-30-2011, 11:37 AM
Portland tendered an offer to Greg Oden or something. That sounds, like, really awkward but they did it anyway cause they still like him.

So they gave him an $8.8 million offer sheet before today's deadline which allows Portland to match any offer to Oden on the free agency market since he's a restricted free agent. Here's the article. (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=6717753) The article does not say how long the offer is for.

This is similar to how Orlando gave Redick an offer sheet and wound up matching what the Bulls offered last summer.

Oden has averaged 9.4 and 7.3 in 22 minutes per game for all 82 games he's appeared in over the last 4 seasons (of which he's played parts of 2). He could be the missing piece to their puzzle if he can stay healthy. I feel bad for Portland with Roy and Oden's injuries.

Yeah, that's a move Portland unfortunately had to make. They aren't going to find a guy better than what Oden could do (if healthy enough to play) for less than $9 million anyway. They couldn't let him go for nothing and have him turn out decent when he plays arguably the one position/role where they have the biggest need.

It's kind of a no-win situation for Portland. It's very likely he won't be healthy enough to really contribute, but they can't afford to run the risk that he does become healthy enough somewhere else.

superdave
06-30-2011, 11:51 AM
Yeah, that's a move Portland unfortunately had to make. They aren't going to find a guy better than what Oden could do (if healthy enough to play) for less than $9 million anyway. They couldn't let him go for nothing and have him turn out decent when he plays arguably the one position/role where they have the biggest need.

It's kind of a no-win situation for Portland. It's very likely he won't be healthy enough to really contribute, but they can't afford to run the risk that he does become healthy enough somewhere else.

Yeah, unfortunate for Oden and Portland. I'd love to see him be able to have at least a good 5-6 year run in the league would good health and production. I'd hate to see him go the Yao Ming route. If he and Camby could split 40 minutes at the C spot, then Portland could be really good. Otherwise they will wind up going small with Aldridge at C which could work too.

superdave
06-30-2011, 02:48 PM
JJ Hickson (nearly 14 and 9 last year) traded to the Kings for Omri Caspi (around 9 and 4) and a protected 1st round pick.

The draft pick is lottery protected in 2012 (1-14). The pick is then protected in 2013 (1-13), 2014 (1-12) and 2015-2017 (1-10). If the pick is not acquired by 2017, then the Kings will send their 2017 second-round draft pick to the Cavaliers.

Uhm, arent the King likely to be drafting 1-14 in 2012 and 1-13 on 2013? They stink.

Starter
06-30-2011, 03:01 PM
I think it's more a cost thing than anything else. Hickson is going to be a free agent after 2013 and is likely to ask for a whole lot based on his good numbers for a bad team. If they're not sold on him, and are in full-fledged rebuilding mode, I guess they want to continue that effort before the lockout hits and they're frozen tonight. I'm not sure what year that'll happen, but at some point before 2017 you have to think the Cavs will probably end up with a lower lottery pick as part of the deal.

superdave
06-30-2011, 03:09 PM
I think it's more a cost thing than anything else. Hickson is going to be a free agent after 2013 and is likely to ask for a whole lot based on his good numbers for a bad team. If they're not sold on him, and are in full-fledged rebuilding mode, I guess they want to continue that effort before the lockout hits and they're frozen tonight. I'm not sure what year that'll happen, but at some point before 2017 you have to think the Cavs will probably end up with a lower lottery pick as part of the deal.

Next year's draft is going to be loaded, so maybe if the pick comes in at 15-17 (doubtful...cause the Kings stink) then it would be ok. They should have gotten it top 8 protected. But to get the 14th pick in 2016 does not help with rebuilding ....until 2016. Seems like bad negotiating by the Cavs.

Starter
06-30-2011, 03:27 PM
Next year's draft is going to be loaded, so maybe if the pick comes in at 15-17 (doubtful...cause the Kings stink) then it would be ok. They should have gotten it top 8 protected. But to get the 14th pick in 2016 does not help with rebuilding ....until 2016. Seems like bad negotiating by the Cavs.

I honestly just think it's that by the time the Cavs are potentially ready to compete for real, Hickson's going to be a free agent who'll want to get paid. If they weren't sold on Hickson, who Hollinger had ranked 112th last year, as a player to build around, then going after the future first rounder isn't a bad move. Personally? I've never liked Hickson nearly as much as everyone else seems to. (I do like Casspi, for what it's worth. Part of that is admittedly that he's a fellow Tribe member, and part is that he's a 6-9 swingman with 3-point range who's played well when he's started. But the potential future first-rounder and finances are why they made the deal.)

Starter
06-30-2011, 03:31 PM
By the way, the lockout is official as of midnight tonight. There's apparently a pretty huge chasm there.

Now granted, I would have gone too, if in Kyrie's position. But given that the lockout is now a reality, depending on how long it goes, I do wonder if Kyrie will wonder if being a college student and player would have held advantages over being a locked-out NBA first overall pick.

COYS
06-30-2011, 04:12 PM
By the way, the lockout is official as of midnight tonight. There's apparently a pretty huge chasm there.

Now granted, I would have gone too, if in Kyrie's position. But given that the lockout is now a reality, depending on how long it goes, I do wonder if Kyrie will wonder if being a college student and player would have held advantages over being a locked-out NBA first overall pick.

Well, since he won't be playing basketball in any official capacity with the Cavs, undergrads may see him back at Duke a bit for class if he's serious about getting his degree as he claims.

superdave
06-30-2011, 04:52 PM
Well, since he won't be playing basketball in any official capacity with the Cavs, undergrads may see him back at Duke a bit for class if he's serious about getting his degree as he claims.

According to KI on the twitter, he's taking summer classes at Duke. Kyrie's twitter.
(http://twitter.com/#!/Ky1Irving)
In a scenario like that does he pay for his summer classes himself? I'd assume so.

CameronBornAndBred
06-30-2011, 05:30 PM
According to KI on the twitter, he's taking summer classes at Duke. Kyrie's twitter.
(http://twitter.com/#!/Ky1Irving)
In a scenario like that does he pay for his summer classes himself? I'd assume so.
Somebody has to stay and mind the gym, everyone else will be practicing Chinese. Very cool of Kyrie though.

superdave
07-06-2011, 05:05 PM
Possession of weed. (https://twitter.com/#!/jerryzgoda/status/88697095703379968) Too bad he wasnt in Cali. His trade value just dropped another 10%.

diveonthefloor
07-09-2011, 05:51 PM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/ian_thomsen/07/08/shane.battier/

BD80
07-09-2011, 09:17 PM
Possession of weed. (https://twitter.com/#!/jerryzgoda/status/88697095703379968) Too bad he wasnt in Cali. His trade value just dropped another 10%.

How do you get into trouble in Minnetonka????

It is cool, and surprising, that he stayed in Minnesota after the season. It shows he was willing to work out with the team even when it is not required.

Sounds to me like he really does have an issue with the smoke, it is not like Minnetonka is the den of temptation that is South Beach. Of course, it could be from his year in Kansas - smoking to relieve the boredom.

superdave
07-10-2011, 08:19 PM
How do you get into trouble in Minnetonka????

It is cool, and surprising, that he stayed in Minnesota after the season. It shows he was willing to work out with the team even when it is not required.

Sounds to me like he really does have an issue with the smoke, it is not like Minnetonka is the den of temptation that is South Beach. Of course, it could be from his year in Kansas - smoking to relieve the boredom.

I think a lot of the NBA guys smoke because it has less hangover effect than alcohol. But most of them are smart enough to make someone else carry the bag....

I think Mr. Beasley might see some suspension time before too long.