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Reilly
06-11-2011, 08:25 AM
Gread read as always. It brings to my mind a question I've long had: *Why* do certain sports take hold in certain regions? Why does basketball become so much more popular in NC than in some other state? Why is football more popular in the South than in New England? What is it about the culture in Indiana and NC that makes hoops so popular that is not found in, say, Tennessee and Oklahoma? At some point, success feeds on itself, so kids coming of age in NC today are brought up in the culture. But my question is how or why did a certain sport take hold in a certain place in the first place -- what is it about the sport, and the people, that caused it to stick? Some pastimes have a natural element: coastal folks fish, mountain folks hike ... but for an indoor sport like b'ball, what's the cultural, sociological connection?

miramar
06-11-2011, 09:29 AM
Since basketball was originally a regional phenomenon, I can't think of any reason why it was so popular early on in NC and Indiana, but not next door in SC and Illinois. I'm just glad they made a movie called Hoosiers and not Tar Heels.

I really enjoyed the article and my only quibble is the comment about "David Thompson, the greatest player in college basketball history." I'd really have to go with Lew Alcindor, but that's a personal choice. Yet it might be good to recall that even John Wooden, three thousand miles away, recruited in the state during UCLA's glory years, signing Henry Bibby out of Franklinton.

mcches
06-11-2011, 10:35 AM
It is an interesting question but like anything, it has to start somewhere. If it takes root and is promoted by strong leaders, it can certainly prosper. Clearly, there has been a very strong link between NC and Indiana. Also, if the state has a really good team that people hear about or follow (UNC, Duke, State, NCCU), it can become a hot sport and prosper.

I always heard that Vic Bubas helped revolutionize the sport by recruiting nationally.

hq2
06-11-2011, 10:35 AM
Yeah, I've always puzzled over b-ball's local popularity a little too. You have 3 states - North Carolina, Indiana, and Kentucky, where basketball rules, but not in the adjacent ones. I think there are different reasons for each. In Indiana, it's the state high school tournament that made it big. In Kentucky, it was Adolph Rupp. In North Carolina, it was the Big Four and C.D. Chesley, plus the fact that ACC football in N.C. (usually) sucks. But, in the surrounding states (Tennessee, Illinois, South Carolina) there hasn't been a single factor to push B-ball to the top, and it hasn't happened.

Freethrw33
06-11-2011, 02:06 PM
Regarding the article, it's a nice read, but listing many great players / coaches in a sport from a state does not make that sport by default the most popular in the state.

If a poll were taken of North Carolina residents regarding which sport they favored between basketball and car racing, my guess would be that car racing would win (purely speculating here...)

The results may depend on if a "casual" fan is equivalent to a "fanatic" fan, since I'm thinking college basketball has more casual fans (though also its fair share of fanatics), while NASCAR fans seem more likely to be "all or nothing".

Note that I am not a NASCAR fan and college bball is my favorite sport. Also, I haven't lived in NC for a few years now...

Highlander
06-11-2011, 03:30 PM
I would suggest you read "Tobacco Road" by Mr. Featherston for the whole story. Everett Case at NCState helped establish basketball in the region as a religion, primarily because State felt like they couldn't compete with Duke and UNC in (wait for it) football. The Dixie Classic was another key component. I think more than anything, NC schools started recruiting and paying attention before everyone else, and that head start with great coaching was all it took.

Olympic Fan
06-11-2011, 04:25 PM
Regarding the article, it's a nice read, but listing many great players / coaches in a sport from a state does not make that sport by default the most popular in the state.

If a poll were taken of North Carolina residents regarding which sport they favored between basketball and car racing, my guess would be that car racing would win (purely speculating here...)

The results may depend on if a "casual" fan is equivalent to a "fanatic" fan, since I'm thinking college basketball has more casual fans (though also its fair share of fanatics), while NASCAR fans seem more likely to be "all or nothing".

Note that I am not a NASCAR fan and college bball is my favorite sport. Also, I haven't lived in NC for a few years now...

As a North Carolinian, I totally disagree -- and it's not cose.

FWIW, Barry Jacobs notes that total attendence for Big Four basketball outdraws events at the Charlotte Motor Speedway by a wide margin. While there are other tracks, there are plenty of other basketball venues outside the Big Four.

I don't have the ratings, but major ACC events -- the ACC Tournament, the annual Duke-Carolina game -- are much bigger TV draws in-state than the World 600 (the largest single event).

And, finally, to guage relative interests, measure the among of space the state's newspapers devote to the two sports -- college basketball trumps auto racing by a wide, WIDE margin.

ricks68
06-11-2011, 04:35 PM
I think that you also have to consider climate and geographic location a big factor in why some states prefer some sports over others. While there are certainly many exceptions to this, Florida, Miami and Stanford (for example) usually have good tennis, swimming and baseball due to their warmer winters and proximity to water. Growing up in Miami, being in a gym doing anything (even during the winter months), was not where you wanted to be. Certainly nowadays, with AC everywhere, it is no longer a problem, but since the historical perspective is being considered, it probably affected the situation going forward.

I think that bball in NC is just perfect because the gyms do not get too overheated in the winter (Cameron is a great example) and it is not so cold with a lot of snow to prevent people from making it to games.

Now, I guess if history were to begin today with indoor sports, a lot of places might have had bball much higher up on their lists. Also, after global warming continues to take hold, we may have a lot more areas that begin to participate more in water sports.;)

ricks

sagegrouse
06-11-2011, 07:28 PM
Two words: "Everett Case." He created a big time basketball program in a region where there were none.

Uh, no, I guess it is four words -- the two above plus "Big Four." Four major colleges within 108 miles (used to be 30 until Wake moved to W-S in the mid-fifties). The big cities in the Northeast (Philly, New York, Boston) had something comparable, but nowhere else except in NC. In the case of the Big Four, though, they were always in the same conference.

Well, maybe it's really six words -- add in, "Dixie Classic," when the Big Four would regularly drum four leading teams from other parts of the country in the quarters and then play each other afterwards.

Or, maybe we should recognize two more -- "ACC Tournament," always played in North Carolina in the first decades of the ACC.

sagegrouse

Reilly
06-11-2011, 11:36 PM
I think that you also have to consider climate and geographic location a big factor in why some states prefer some sports over others. ....

I agree. Hockey seems a no-brainer in that department. Coastal/water sports as well.

What gets me is something that has no seeming climate connection (like b'ball) and why it esp. takes hold some place and not another -- what is it, if anything, about the make-up of the people in that neck of the woods that draws them to that sport.

Why is college football a way of life in SC and not NH?

I guess the non-popularity of soccer (as a spectator sport) is the same sort of question: folks the world over are crazy for it, but not those of us in the US. We are people too, just like the rest of the world, yet don't go for it.

BasketballFollower
06-12-2011, 07:24 PM
The national championship that Al Featherston lists for Winston-Salem State in 1967 was not the NAIA title. It was the NCAA College Division championship. That's now Division II.

ArkieDukie
06-12-2011, 07:54 PM
I think that you also have to consider climate and geographic location a big factor in why some states prefer some sports over others. While there are certainly many exceptions to this, Florida, Miami and Stanford (for example) usually have good tennis, swimming and baseball due to their warmer winters and proximity to water. Growing up in Miami, being in a gym doing anything (even during the winter months), was not where you wanted to be. Certainly nowadays, with AC everywhere, it is no longer a problem, but since the historical perspective is being considered, it probably affected the situation going forward.

I think that bball in NC is just perfect because the gyms do not get too overheated in the winter (Cameron is a great example) and it is not so cold with a lot of snow to prevent people from making it to games.

Now, I guess if history were to begin today with indoor sports, a lot of places might have had bball much higher up on their lists. Also, after global warming continues to take hold, we may have a lot more areas that begin to participate more in water sports.;)

ricks

Ricks makes a good point here. I would add another factor: community size/isolation/socioeconomic makeup. There are communities in rural Arkansas that live and die by their school's basketball teams. These communities often do not have the number of students needed to support a football program, but basketball is easy (and probably cheaper). A couple of my nieces and a nephew attend such a school, and all of the kids are taught basic basketball skills at a VERY early age. I should mention that each grade at their school has about 20 kids TOTAL. Imagine trying to field a football or baseball team in a community that size - especially when most of the families live at or below poverty level.

I use my home state as an example because that's what I know, but I would imagine that this same scenario plays out in other areas of the country.

bballanj
06-13-2011, 04:33 PM
As someone who has lived in Illinois their entire life I can tell you that it is very much a basketball state. It is not romanticized like Indiana, but Illinois is fanatical about their basketball much like Indiana is. The term "March Madness" was actually coined in reference to the IHSA state tournament in 1939.


Since basketball was originally a regional phenomenon, I can't think of any reason why it was so popular early on in NC and Indiana, but not next door in SC and Illinois. I'm just glad they made a movie called Hoosiers and not Tar Heels.

I really enjoyed the article and my only quibble is the comment about "David Thompson, the greatest player in college basketball history." I'd really have to go with Lew Alcindor, but that's a personal choice. Yet it might be good to recall that even John Wooden, three thousand miles away, recruited in the state during UCLA's glory years, signing Henry Bibby out of Franklinton.

Dukeface88
06-13-2011, 08:14 PM
Two words: "Everett Case." He created a big time basketball program in a region where there were none.

Uh, no, I guess it is four words -- the two above plus "Big Four." Four major colleges within 108 miles (used to be 30 until Wake moved to W-S in the mid-fifties). The big cities in the Northeast (Philly, New York, Boston) had something comparable, but nowhere else except in NC. In the case of the Big Four, though, they were always in the same conference.

Well, maybe it's really six words -- add in, "Dixie Classic," when the Big Four would regularly drum four leading teams from other parts of the country in the quarters and then play each other afterwards.

Or, maybe we should recognize two more -- "ACC Tournament," always played in North Carolina in the first decades of the ACC.

sagegrouse

Nobody expects the basketball inquistion!

NovaScotian
06-15-2011, 05:38 PM
Gread read as always. It brings to my mind a question I've long had: *Why* do certain sports take hold in certain regions? Why does basketball become so much more popular in NC than in some other state? Why is football more popular in the South than in New England? What is it about the culture in Indiana and NC that makes hoops so popular that is not found in, say, Tennessee and Oklahoma? At some point, success feeds on itself, so kids coming of age in NC today are brought up in the culture. But my question is how or why did a certain sport take hold in a certain place in the first place -- what is it about the sport, and the people, that caused it to stick? Some pastimes have a natural element: coastal folks fish, mountain folks hike ... but for an indoor sport like b'ball, what's the cultural, sociological connection?

I heard coach mike once say that he thought te reason basketball, specifically college basketball was so popular in NC was that for a long time there were no professional teams in area. Correct me if I'm wrong but before the hornets or the panthers there was nothing else, right?

Indoor66
06-15-2011, 06:55 PM
I heard coach mike once say that he thought te reason basketball, specifically college basketball was so popular in NC was that for a long time there were no professional teams in area. Correct me if I'm wrong but before the hornets or the panthers there was nothing else, right?

The first pro team was the Carolina Cougars in the ABA - in 1969. They played in Raleigh, Greensboro, Winston-Salem and Charlotte.

sagegrouse
06-15-2011, 06:56 PM
I heard coach mike once say that he thought te reason basketball, specifically college basketball was so popular in NC was that for a long time there were no professional teams in area. Correct me if I'm wrong but before the hornets or the panthers there was nothing else, right?

Unless you want to count the Carolina Cougars (http://www.remembertheaba.com/carolina-cougars.html)of the ABA, 1969-1974, featuring Bob Verga (Duke), plus Doug Moe, Bill Bunting and later, Billy Cunningham (UNC).

sagegrouse

McDougald
06-21-2011, 03:18 PM
According to WRAL, Gov. Bev Perdue will be in be in Charlotte today to sign a proclamation declaring stock car racing the official sport of North Carolina. From my recollections, North Carolinians are much more knowledgeable about ACC Basketball than NASCAR. After all NASCAR closed North Wilkesboro and The Rock, whilst ACC basketball continues to grow in national prominence.

SmartDevil
06-21-2011, 04:29 PM
According to WRAL, Gov. Bev Perdue will be in be in Charlotte today to sign a proclamation declaring stock car racing the official sport of North Carolina. From my recollections, North Carolinians are much more knowledgeable about ACC Basketball than NASCAR. After all NASCAR closed North Wilkesboro and The Rock, whilst ACC basketball continues to grow in national prominence.

If they HAD to honor NASCAR, why couldn't they have named it the "official PROFESSIONAL sport" of North Carolina.

Devil in the Blue Dress
06-21-2011, 04:40 PM
According to WRAL, Gov. Bev Perdue will be in be in Charlotte today to sign a proclamation declaring stock car racing the official sport of North Carolina. From my recollections, North Carolinians are much more knowledgeable about ACC Basketball than NASCAR. After all NASCAR closed North Wilkesboro and The Rock, whilst ACC basketball continues to grow in national prominence.
Isn't this is the same crowd who voted in a new budget with five additional school days hidden in the bill?

Highlander
06-22-2011, 09:13 AM
Unless you want to count the Carolina Cougars (http://www.remembertheaba.com/carolina-cougars.html)of the ABA, 1969-1974, featuring Bob Verga (Duke), plus Doug Moe, Bill Bunting and later, Billy Cunningham (UNC).

sagegrouse

Don't forget Mike Lewis (Duke) as well. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Lewis_(basketball)

Highlander
06-22-2011, 09:26 AM
http://www.racintoday.com/archives/28061

It's official - Nascar is now the state sport of North Carolina. Main reason given for not choosing basketball? It was founded in Massachusetts, while stock care racing originated in North Carolina.

Funny, that never seemed to stop them from declaring NC "First in Flight" for years, despite the fact that the Wright brothers were from (and lived in) Ohio at the time.

Sigh.

rasputin
06-22-2011, 12:31 PM
http://www.racintoday.com/archives/28061

It's official - Nascar is now the state sport of North Carolina. Main reason given for not choosing basketball? It was founded in Massachusetts, while stock care racing originated in North Carolina.

Funny, that never seemed to stop them from declaring NC "First in Flight" for years, despite the fact that the Wright brothers were from (and lived in) Ohio at the time.

Sigh.

Wasn't "First in Flight" a back-pedal from the original plan, "First in Freedom"?

Johnboy
06-22-2011, 04:03 PM
Wasn't "First in Flight" a back-pedal from the original plan, "First in Freedom"?

Yes (http://www.sandersweb.net/nc/FirstInFreedom.htm). <-This is a pro-"first in freedom" link - it's the first one that came up. I don't wish to embroil myself one way or the other in the actual controversy, though it's always fun to educate people on the Mecklenburg Declaration (http://www.bartleby.com/43/15.html) and North Carolina's place in US Revolutionary War History. Everyone knows about the North Carolina Regulation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_the_Regulation)(and its adherents, the Regulators), right? There were a lot of ticked off people here in the mid-eighteenth century.

Olympic Fan
06-22-2011, 04:35 PM
Yes (http://www.sandersweb.net/nc/FirstInFreedom.htm). <-This is a pro-"first in freedom" link - it's the first one that came up. I don't wish to embroil myself one way or the other in the actual controversy, though it's always fun to educate people on the Mecklenburg Declaration (http://www.bartleby.com/43/15.html) and North Carolina's place in US Revolutionary War History. Everyone knows about the North Carolina Regulation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_the_Regulation)(and its adherents, the Regulators), right? There were a lot of ticked off people here in the mid-eighteenth century.

Not to turn this into a PPB debate, but the Mecklenberg Declaration of Independence is almost certainly bogus. There is absolutely NO contemporary evidence for it -- no newspaper, no letters, no diary entries, no nothing. The earliest reference to it was the memories of some very old men around 1819 -- more than 40 yearsafter the fact. Their "document" sounds suspiciously like Jefferson's famous work.

I don't know of a single reputable historian who gives it any credence (and even the link you include questions its authenticity).

There's also a problem with the Regulators, who did rebel against British corruption in the decade before the revolution. But their revolt was squashed in 1771 and the Regulators either fled over the mountains (to what is now Tennessee) or stayed and for the most part fought on the loyalist side in the Revolutionary War.

North Carolina DOES deserve credit for the Halifax Resolves, when on April 12, 1776 the Provencial Legislature became the first of the colonies to formally instruct its delegates to the Continental Congress to pursue independence from Great Britain.

I guess in hindsight, calling North Carolina "First in Freedom" makes about as much sense as designating auto racing as the official state sport ... i.e., none at all.