Thor's hammer coming down on USC... Ohio State next?

[moonpie23]

reading this made me think that maybe it won't be all fuzzy fuzzy cute cute for UNC after all......


http://sports.espn.go.com/los-angeles/ncf/news/story?id=6592663

[BD80]

reading this made me think that maybe it won't be all fuzzy fuzzy cute cute for UNC after all......


http://sports.espn.go.com/los-angeles/ncf/news/story?id=6592663

If they lose 10 schollies each year for 3 years, does that mean that 10 guys will get 2 cars?

[SoCalDukeFan]

Do not expect anything but stupidity and inconsistency from the NCAA.

Cam Newton's Dad shops him around and the NCAA basically does nothing.

The NCAA does step in to keep an American Idol contestant from being recruited by NC State.

UConn breaks the rules and the NCAA takes away scholarships that would probably have either not used or given to walk ons.

Outsiders give benefits to Reggie Bush and his family. None of the outsiders are connected to USC and USC gets nothing from the deal. USC gets completely hammered by the NCAA.

The NCAA comes up with a rule that says players suspensions can start after bowl games. So if two players are guilty of the same infraction and one is a senior and other a soph then I guess the senior either misses the bowl game or gets the penalty. The soph gets to play in the bowl game.

Questions:
1. Is UNC cooperating with the NCAA and bowing down at every opportunity?
If so, good chance that they get a light penalty.
2. Is there any way that the NCAA can construe that UNC is lying to them?
If so, heavy penalty.
3. How important to ESPN is UNC football? The greater the importance the lighter the penalty.

SoCal

[JasonEvans]

I think I am about to turn this into a general "NCAA sanctions for football programs" thread, but I was about to post this elsewhere and figured it might fit better in this thread...

The guys on Sportsradio today in Atlanta were talking seriously about the Death Penalty for Ohio State. In case you have not heard, the latest is that a former wide receiver Ray Small did an interview (http://www.thelantern.com/mobile/campus/ray-small-tells-all-ex-buckeye-says-he-sold-memorabilia-some-players-don-t-think-about-rules-1.2256503?pagereq=1) where he admitted to selling tons of Ohio State memorabilia and said players basically did not care about NCAA rules. He says they got extra benefits all over the place, including deals on cars--


"We had four Big Ten rings," he said. "There was enough to go around."

"It was definitely the deals on the cars. I don't see why it's a big deal," said Small, who identified Jack Maxton Chevrolet as the players' main resource.

The Columbus Dispatch reported on May 7 that OSU was investigating more than 50 transactions between OSU athletes and their families and Jack Maxton Chevrolet or Auto Direct.

I can't imagine how Jim Tressel still has a job after what has come out about him and the Pryor/memorabilia mess. The full story now appears to be that Tressel was emailed by a former Ohio State player in April of 2010 and told about the investigation into the players selling memorabilia. Tressel forwarded those emails to Terrell Pryor's mentor but never told anyone at Ohio State about it and even signed documents in September saying he did not know of anything that would be a potential violation. When he was initially confronted about it, Tressel denied knowing many details about the investigation and said he had only heard "general rumors." He did not mention the emails he had gotten and forwarded to Pryor's camp. Ohio State and the NCAA only found out about the emails when they were doing a public records search of Tressel's communications -- it was only when he was confronted with the actual emails that he admitted to knowing specific details about the memorabilia sales and the invstigation into them.

Are you kidding me?!!? How can this guy still have his job?!?! Is there any possible defense for all this?!?!

It is worth noting at this point that the admission by Ray Small involves a period of time when Ohio State was already on probation, which is why the Sportstalk guys said the Death Penalty was an appropriate penalty. The Columbus Dispatch is all over the allegations (http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2011/05/07/osu-to-investigate-players-car-deals.html?sid=101)of football players getting cars a bit too cheaply --


Public records show that in 2009, a 2-year-old Chrysler 300 with less than 20,000 miles was titled to then-sophomore linebacker Thaddeus Gibson. Documents show the purchase price as $0.

Popular football blog, With Leather, wrote this a couple weeks ago-- Ohio State Football Takes A Big Leap Toward Death Row (http://withleather.uproxx.com/2011/05/ohio-state-football-takes-a-big-leap-toward-death-row)


Buckeyes are giving us an argument to bring the NCAA’s death penalty–a one-year ban from competition–back to Division I football for the first time since Texas’s Southern Methodist got the chair in 1987.

If both this and the “Tat Five” investigations are determined by the NCAA to be major violations, Ohio State would be slapped with the “repeat violator” label, placing the football program within the proper criteria for such a ban.

--Jason "I don't think OSU is getting the Death Penalty... but this is a really serious situation" Evans

[Duvall]

I can't imagine how Jim Tressel still has a job after what has come out about him and the Pryor/memorabilia mess. The full story now appears to be that Tressel was emailed by a former Ohio State player in April of 2010 and told about the investigation into the players selling memorabilia. Tressel forwarded those emails to Terrell Pryor's mentor but never told anyone at Ohio State about it and even signed documents in September saying he did not know of anything that would be a potential violation. When he was initially confronted about it, Tressel denied knowing many details about the investigation and said he had only heard "general rumors." He did not mention the emails he had gotten and forwarded to Pryor's camp. Ohio State and the NCAA only found out about the emails when they were doing a public records search of Tressel's communications -- it was only when he was confronted with the actual emails that he admitted to knowing specific details about the memorabilia sales and the invstigation into them.

Are you kidding me?!!? How can this guy still have his job?!?! Is there any possible defense for all this?!?!

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ABPub/2007/12/24/2004091007.jpg

[kexman]

I believe Tressel's defense (at least to Ohio State) is his record against Michigan for the last decade. It is ok to cheat as long as you win!

[OZZIE4DUKE]

I'll go out on a very short limb and predict that Jim Tressel will not survive the summer as OSU's coach. He may not make it to Memorial Day, much less Independence Day.

[MulletMan]

I think I am about to turn this into a general "NCAA sanctions for football programs" thread, but I was about to post this elsewhere and figured it might fit better in this thread...

The guys on Sportsradio today in Atlanta were talking seriously about the Death Penalty for Ohio State. In case you have not heard, the latest is that a former wide receiver Ray Small did an interview (http://www.thelantern.com/mobile/campus/ray-small-tells-all-ex-buckeye-says-he-sold-memorabilia-some-players-don-t-think-about-rules-1.2256503?pagereq=1) where he admitted to selling tons of Ohio State memorabilia and said players basically did not care about NCAA rules. He says they got extra benefits all over the place, including deals on cars--



I can't imagine how Jim Tressel still has a job after what has come out about him and the Pryor/memorabilia mess. The full story now appears to be that Tressel was emailed by a former Ohio State player in April of 2010 and told about the investigation into the players selling memorabilia. Tressel forwarded those emails to Terrell Pryor's mentor but never told anyone at Ohio State about it and even signed documents in September saying he did not know of anything that would be a potential violation. When he was initially confronted about it, Tressel denied knowing many details about the investigation and said he had only heard "general rumors." He did not mention the emails he had gotten and forwarded to Pryor's camp. Ohio State and the NCAA only found out about the emails when they were doing a public records search of Tressel's communications -- it was only when he was confronted with the actual emails that he admitted to knowing specific details about the memorabilia sales and the invstigation into them.

Are you kidding me?!!? How can this guy still have his job?!?! Is there any possible defense for all this?!?!

It is worth noting at this point that the admission by Ray Small involves a period of time when Ohio State was already on probation, which is why the Sportstalk guys said the Death Penalty was an appropriate penalty. The Columbus Dispatch is all over the allegations (http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2011/05/07/osu-to-investigate-players-car-deals.html?sid=101)of football players getting cars a bit too cheaply --



Popular football blog, With Leather, wrote this a couple weeks ago-- Ohio State Football Takes A Big Leap Toward Death Row (http://withleather.uproxx.com/2011/05/ohio-state-football-takes-a-big-leap-toward-death-row)



--Jason "I don't think OSU is getting the Death Penalty... but this is a really serious situation" Evans

OK... so I'm gonna reply to Evans, here, and his incredulity at the Vest still having a job. I'm going to do it under full disclosure... I grew up in Ohio, am a huge OSU fan, am totally embarrassed by what has and is coming out about the players (though... c'mon... is anyone surprised that Pryor is a dirt bag?) and feel that the best course may be to fire the Vest.

However, I think you really misrepresent things here a bit Jason. Its not like Tressel or even OSU was out there hooking players up with tats or cars or telling them to go sell their rings. See... you're leaving out some pretty important quotes from the Small story (sorry I don't know how to do the HTML stuff to get this in the post as a quote from the article).

"Malcolm Jenkins, who played cornerback for OSU from 2005-2008, said the tattoo violation was overblown.

"The tattoo thing is whatever. It's not that big of a deal, but it's one of the dumb rules that the NCAA has," Jenkins told The Lantern on Wednesday. "I don't see what advantage getting free tattoos has to a university to be a violation, but it's whatever. It's in the rules, so it's whatever."

Small said he isn't surprised players couldn't resist the temptation of discounted tattoos.

"If you go in and try to get a tattoo, and somebody is like ‘Do you want 50 percent off this tattoo?' You're going to say, ‘Heck yeah,'" Small said.

*********
Small spent much of his four years at OSU in Tressel's doghouse.

"When I was in college, in my opinion, I was the bad guy," Small said. "I mean I knew that I was being the bad guy. I had took on that role."

Small said the allure of deals and discounts overshadows the rules education that the athletic department's compliance office provides.

"They explain the rules to you, but as a kid you're not really listening to all of them rules," Small said. "You go out and you just, people show you so much love, you don't even think about the rules. You're just like ‘Ah man, it's cool.' You take it, and next thing you know the NCAA is down your back."

Jenkins said the athletic department makes a concerted effort to prevent such scenarios, but not all players follow instruction.

"What the players go out and do on their own time and make their own decisions is on them," Jenkins said. "I know (the compliance department) puts things in place to give us knowledge of the rules, give us education on how to deal with those situations, but what the players do with that is another story."

So really... what the hell is OSU supposed to do? I mean, clearly they need to be recruiting kids with better character, but people are going to do what they want to do. Kids are going to do what they want to do. Why aren't people up in arms about Gene Chizik still having a job? Anybody with half a brain knows Auburn paid Cam Newton. What about Butch Davis?

To be clear... the stuff with the tats and Vest covering it up and emailing Pryor's "advisor" or whatever that guy is is terrible and wrong and he should pay the penalty, but to sit there and say that these coaches need to control what 100 kids do every day at every hour is unrealistic.

[tux]

OK... so I'm gonna reply to Evans, here, and his incredulity at the Vest still having a job. I'm going to do it under full disclosure... I grew up in Ohio, am a huge OSU fan, am totally embarrassed by what has and is coming out about the players (though... c'mon... is anyone surprised that Pryor is a dirt bag?) and feel that the best course may be to fire the Vest.

However, I think you really misrepresent things here a bit Jason. Its not like Tressel or even OSU was out there hooking players up with tats or cars or telling them to go sell their rings. See... you're leaving out some pretty important quotes from the Small story (sorry I don't know how to do the HTML stuff to get this in the post as a quote from the article).

"Malcolm Jenkins, who played cornerback for OSU from 2005-2008, said the tattoo violation was overblown.

"The tattoo thing is whatever. It's not that big of a deal, but it's one of the dumb rules that the NCAA has," Jenkins told The Lantern on Wednesday. "I don't see what advantage getting free tattoos has to a university to be a violation, but it's whatever. It's in the rules, so it's whatever."

Small said he isn't surprised players couldn't resist the temptation of discounted tattoos.

"If you go in and try to get a tattoo, and somebody is like ‘Do you want 50 percent off this tattoo?' You're going to say, ‘Heck yeah,'" Small said.

*********
Small spent much of his four years at OSU in Tressel's doghouse.

"When I was in college, in my opinion, I was the bad guy," Small said. "I mean I knew that I was being the bad guy. I had took on that role."

Small said the allure of deals and discounts overshadows the rules education that the athletic department's compliance office provides.

"They explain the rules to you, but as a kid you're not really listening to all of them rules," Small said. "You go out and you just, people show you so much love, you don't even think about the rules. You're just like ‘Ah man, it's cool.' You take it, and next thing you know the NCAA is down your back."

Jenkins said the athletic department makes a concerted effort to prevent such scenarios, but not all players follow instruction.

"What the players go out and do on their own time and make their own decisions is on them," Jenkins said. "I know (the compliance department) puts things in place to give us knowledge of the rules, give us education on how to deal with those situations, but what the players do with that is another story."

So really... what the hell is OSU supposed to do? I mean, clearly they need to be recruiting kids with better character, but people are going to do what they want to do. Kids are going to do what they want to do. Why aren't people up in arms about Gene Chizik still having a job? Anybody with half a brain knows Auburn paid Cam Newton. What about Butch Davis?

To be clear... the stuff with the tats and Vest covering it up and emailing Pryor's "advisor" or whatever that guy is is terrible and wrong and he should pay the penalty, but to sit there and say that these coaches need to control what 100 kids do every day at every hour is unrealistic.


Car dealerships are not giving away cars for free; there has to be boosters making those payments. Powerful boosters at any university are not strangers to one another. I.e., this crap doesn't just happen in a vacuum --- there's either a culture of cheating or there's not. It's not just on the coaches. It's probably more the responsibility of the athletic department as a whole and the alumni organizations. But, as it turns out, firing the coach is a good way of assigning responsibility and moving on. Tressel probably knew quite a lot but was happy to land top five recruiting classes and not ask too many questions...

[BlueDevil2K]

As another Ohio State fan (born at OSU hospital for crying out loud), I've got plenty of issues with what's gone on as well. Just for the sake of accuracy, though, the Thaddeus Gibson car thing was a case of poor journalism:

http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/24156338/29227421

[Mike Corey]

Unless something new comes out, Tressel's not going anywhere and OSU is not getting the death penalty.

The car situation appears to be overblown: guys were getting used Dodge Chargers at prices that do not appear to have been distinguishable from what the average joe would have been required to pay. Does it sound bad? If it's reported as "OSU players got cars for free!" Absolutely. Did that happen? Nope.

The tattoo situation itself was clearly a violation of NCAA rules. OSU should be punished accordingly.

But none of the players were getting houses (USC) or hundreds of thousands of dollars (Auburn) or undue assistance in coursework or using steroids, etc. Indeed, OSU's team GPA is tops in the Big Ten, the team's GPA has soared under Tressel's tenure, and despite the conspicuous troublemakers (Ray Small, Maurice Clarett), the program has improved drastically in every conceivable way under Tressel, despite what Pat Forde wants to be the case.

Don't take my word for it. Here's what former Duke and Ohio State football player Harrison Twill had to say:


To say that I was sad and beyond disappointed to see a former Buckeye teammate and Ohio native provide false information to a media outlet this week about how he spent his once lifetime opportunity as a member of the Ohio State football team along with the rest of his teammates is an understatement. With all of the current controversy surrounding Ohio State‟s football program, I knew that there would be several players mentioned in numerous articles, but I never thought that someone would make such a regrettable and defaming comment as did Ray Small. I personally witnessed countless moments when Jim Tressel supported Ray Small in times of adversity when others were prepared to throw him under the bus. I cannot comprehend the lack of appreciation for the man who is Jim Tressel – who would do anything to ensure his athletes get an education and have an impact on his student athletes‟ lives.

My experience of being a student athlete for Jim Tressel was a very unique road that not many have traveled. My parents made every possible sacrifice to provide my brothers and myself with the best education possible with no ceiling above our heads. This mindset is significant and is part of our tradition of having the privilege of living in America. There are so many who do not have the ability to live in a free country and chase their dreams with no regrets.

After graduating from high school, I earned the once in a lifetime opportunity to attend Duke University. At Duke, I lettered in football and track & field, and was named to the Atlantic Coast Conference Academic Honor Roll for maintaining a 3.24 grade point average. After my Redshirt Sophomore seasons in football and track & field, it was brought to my attention by a mentor of mine that I was in a position to graduate with my undergraduate degree in three years. More importantly, there was an NCAA rule that allowed student athletes who graduated early with their undergraduate degree to attend a different division one University retaining all of their remaining athletic eligibility, as long as the student athlete pursued a graduate school degree that was not offered at the previous university.

After receiving my release from Duke University to contact other schools, I met with football coaches from Stanford, Northwestern, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Ohio State. After meeting Jim Tressel on my official visit to Ohio State, he was by far the most honest, ethical, and open minded coach I encountered on my journey and my decision was made. Almost every division one football coach that I spoke to during this time period had never heard of this NCAA rule and would not give me a chance. Jim Tressel saw something in me and gave me the opportunity to accomplish my childhood dream of playing football for The Ohio State University.

After graduating from Duke University in the Summer of 2005, I moved to Columbus, Ohio to start summer workouts and my matriculation of coursework in the Masters of Labor and Human Resource Management program at the Fisher College of Business. All of my teammates at Ohio State; black, white, latino, and arabic reminded me of an army that would go to war and compete against each other every single day for the best coach in college football. I will never forget the work ethic and the commitment that AJ Hawk dedicated to Jim Tressel at our 5:30 a.m. workouts. I will always remember Anthony Gonzalez being interviewed as a potential Rhodes Scholar. I will always cherish the experience of competing in collegiate athletics as a graduate school student with Stan White II and Brandon Mitchell. Most importantly, I am a better person because I had the opportunity to learn about life from Jim Tressel.

It is insulting and ignorant to suggest that men like AJ Hawk (NFL), Bobby Carpenter (NFL), Justin Zwick (Medical Sales), Anthony Gonzalez (NFL), Stan White II (Investment Banker), Rob Sims (NFL), Jay Richardson (NFL), Malcolm Jenkins (NFL), and many others “sold memorabilia for cash” and received improper benefits while being a member of the Ohio State football team. To say that “everyone was doing it” just because Ray Small says so, is ludicrous. All of the former Buckeye players are extremely proud to say that they played for Jim Tressel because of the obvious influence he had on our lives both on and off the field.

The opportunity to accomplish my childhood dream of running out of the tunnel in Ohio Stadium, to receive a Masters Degree from The Ohio State University and to maintain lifelong friendships that I made in my two years on the team will be cherished forever. The many Ohio State alumni that I have been privileged to meet over the years are a constant reminder of how special my two big ten championship rings and my two pairs of gold pants are.

Jim Tressel gave Ray Small the opportunity to receive a free education and then use that education to improve his life and to help others who need assistance. After being mentored by the legendary Ted Ginn Senior of the Ginn Academy Charter School and the Glenville Football program; a man who has made a difference in so many peoples‟ lives, it is apparent that Ray does not understand and never did grasp his place in the World.

Part of being an adult in this World is making decisions every day and then dealing with the consequences of those decisions. If someone offers you money for a Big Ten championship ring or a car deal that violates the NCAA rules, you have the option of saying yes or no. In the grand scheme of life, there is no one forcing you to break the rules and the most successful people will embrace adversity and grow from experience.

Obviously, I am proud of my Ohio State championships, my Masters degree, and all of my Student Athlete teammates that I had the privilege to practice and play with. Most importantly, I am proud of the relationship that I still maintain with Jim Tressel and that we never lost to Michigan. Nevertheless, I pray that Ray Small may be able to one day restore the bond he has shattered with the Ohio State family and most importantly, I wish him good luck with his journey in life and certainly hope that he can one day be as proud of his family and accomplishments as the student athletes that I am.
GO BUCKS!
Harrison Till
Merrill Lynch (San Diego, California)
The Ohio State University'07
Duke University'05

[Mike Corey]

I'll go out on a very short limb and predict that Jim Tressel will not survive the summer as OSU's coach. He may not make it to Memorial Day, much less Independence Day.

I'll take that bet for a dinner at Angus Barn!

(We're gonna get that in one way or the other.)

[Duvall]

So really... what the hell is OSU supposed to do? I mean, clearly they need to be recruiting kids with better character, but people are going to do what they want to do. Kids are going to do what they want to do. Why aren't people up in arms about Gene Chizik still having a job? Anybody with half a brain knows Auburn paid Cam Newton. What about Butch Davis?

There were no paper trails showing knowledge and actions by the head coaches at Auburn and UNC. Here, there is.


To be clear... the stuff with the tats and Vest covering it up and emailing Pryor's "advisor" or whatever that guy is is terrible and wrong and he should pay the penalty, but to sit there and say that these coaches need to control what 100 kids do every day at every hour is unrealistic.

Coaches should be held accountable for their own action. Tressel learned of a potential NCAA violation and chose not to report it. I don't see how a responsible institution can continue to employ him as a college football coach.

[SoCalDukeFan]

Unless something new comes out, Tressel's not going anywhere and OSU is not getting the death penalty.

The car situation appears to be overblown: guys were getting used Dodge Chargers at prices that do not appear to have been distinguishable from what the average joe would have been required to pay. Does it sound bad? If it's reported as "OSU players got cars for free!" Absolutely. Did that happen? Nope.

The tattoo situation itself was clearly a violation of NCAA rules. OSU should be punished accordingly.

But none of the players were getting houses (USC) or hundreds of thousands of dollars (Auburn) or undue assistance in coursework or using steroids, etc. Indeed, OSU's team GPA is tops in the Big Ten, the team's GPA has soared under Tressel's tenure, and despite the conspicuous troublemakers (Ray Small, Maurice Clarett), the program has improved drastically in every conceivable way under Tressel, despite what Pat Forde wants to be the case.

Don't take my word for it. Here's what former Duke and Ohio State football player Harrison Twill had to say:

First of all it makes more sense to bet on a coin toss at a football game than what the NCAA is going to do.

But, Tressel lied to the NCAA. What I think is considered the worst offense at USC is that an assistant coach lied to the NCAA. This is the head coach. They may not get the death penalty and The Ohio State University may chose to keep Tressel, who overall has done a great job. But the Buckeyes should get what USC got and more.

SoCal

[JasonEvans]

I must admit, hearing that the car thing may not be a case of free cars or even steeply discounted ones does seem to make some of the nastiness a bit less nasty.

Still, if they were all getting even mild discounts, it is a clear violation. Just like it is a violation to get tattoos for half-price. The NCAA rules on this kind of stuff are very clear. Most schools are able to operate within these rules (or at least avoid getting caught) so I hardly see how Ohio State could avoid sanctions if any of this stuff happened.

A couple interesting updates --

First of all, Ray Small is now trying to walk back some of his comments (http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/24156338/29613159), like the "everybody was doing it" statement. Small, who is under attack from pretty much the entire Buckeye nation, says he was misquoted. One problem, The Lantern newspaper that did the interview has all of his comments on tape and has provided audio excerpts (http://www.thelantern.com/campus/audio-from-ray-small-s-interview-with-the-lantern-1.2256833) of every quote in the article. Oooops, no getting out of this one, Ray.

Meanwhile, on the Cargate front, the car salesman (Aaron Kniffin) who was constantly selling to the OSU team, says the players came to him because the OSU compliance office directed them to his dealership and that all sales were reviewed by the compliance office. But, the OSU director of compliance, Doug ARchie, says that is absurd and that he maybe spoke to Kniffin one time in his life. Ummm, that might not be totally accurate (http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/24156338/29617266) --


“Doug Archie has called me well over 50 times,” Kniffin said. “This year alone, I’ve talked to him 25-30 times. You can print out your Verizon (phone) bills; his numbers are right there calling me.”

The article goes on to say the following --


The fact that Archie appears to be misrepresenting his relationship with Kniffin is absolutely troubling, though. It's the behavior of someone with something to hide, and the NCAA usually doesn't care much for people who hide information from it. If what Kniffin is describing is true -- that Archie's compliance department checked out Kniffin's dealerships and made sure everything was on the up and up, why on earth wouldn't Archie make that known?

Still, it must be reiterated that Archie had better hope like crazy that the investigation definitively uncovers no wrongdoing, because the alternative is an absolute nightmare for Ohio State. If Kniffin's allegations that Ohio State funneled athletes to these dealerships are correct -- and generally, the first person to offer to produce a paper trail is telling the truth -- and if there are untoward deals being made, then this is a situation where a NCAA member's compliance department is directing its athletes to break NCAA compliance rules, and that would be an outright sham. Still a lot of ifs in that situation... for now.

Tressell ain't losing his job anytime soon, I think. The school's president and AD have tied themselves to him pretty closely. Unless something major comes out that we don't already know, Tressell is keeping his job at least through the summer. Ohio State is to appear before the NCAA Committee on Infractions in August. Tressell should be safe through then.

-Jason "my bottom line-- I am thrilled to not be an OSU fan in all this. If this happened to Duke, I would be heartbroken" Evans

[roywhite]

Tressell ain't losing his job anytime soon, I think. The school's president and AD have tied themselves to him pretty closely. Unless something major comes out that we don't already know, Tressell is keeping his job at least through the summer. Ohio State is to appear before the NCAA Committee on Infractions in August. Tressell should be safe through then.

-Jason "my bottom line-- I am thrilled to not be an OSU fan in all this. If this happened to Duke, I would be heartbroken" Evans

Sounds like Tressell has a problem that is fatal to his job. When his tenure can't be projected beyond a few weeks and he's already suspended for several games, any additional drip-drip means the end is near.

[Mike Corey]

Jason,

I assure you that as a Buckeye alum and current student, there are many--myself included--who are crestfallen over all this.

Prior to these shenanigans, I had found myself in the unenviable position of being enamored with two of the more unpopular franchises in sport: Duke basketball and Ohio State football. In defending OSU football from Duke fans, and in defending Duke basketball from OSU fans, I took pleasure in drawing the many parallels that exist in how Coach Tressel and how Coach K have operated over the years. (To be sure, there are plenty of distinctions, as well.) Many of the reasons Tressel was maligned prior to this season were identical to the reasons K was maligned.

It is hard, now, to defend Tressel in that same way. Indeed, it would be unfair to Coach K to do so, and dishonest to myself.

What I do know is that, winning aside, Coach Tressel has placed Ohio State football on a path that it was not on prior to his hiring: one of academic achievement, with a considerable decrease in off-field problems and a considerable rise in service-related activities in Central Ohio. There have been plenty of pitfalls, but if Tressel is forced out, the NCAA will be losing one of the good guys in the profession.

The grave error here--Tressel's dishonesty with Ohio State and the NCAA--requires punishment. So, too, does, OSU. Certainly, lying does not set the right example for his players. But this sliver of Tressel's time in Columbus is not indicative of the coach or leader he's been.

I could really care less about wins and losses. I'm much prouder of a program that does things right rather than wrong. If I didn't feel Tressel was the person to run the program the right way, I'd want him out in a second. And though my feelings for him have certainly waned, it remains my hope that he receive a second chance and not be run out of town by the proverbial mob. I don't see that as anything other than a superficial solution.

[Olympic Fan]

There were no paper trails showing knowledge and actions by the head coaches at Auburn and UNC. Here, there is.


Ah, but it doesn't have to be the head coach.

Southern Cal got hammered because one assistant coach supposedly knew that Bush was getting illegal benefits and did nothing about it. He denied the charge, but there was a five-minute tape of a phone conversation between him and an agent that the NCAA construed as proof that he knew.

In North Carolina's case, we have a far stronger paper trail that assistant head coach and recruiting coordinator John Blake was getting paid by an agent ... and will probably be designated an agent himself when the NCAA finally files its reports.

Let me also add that the NCAA hasn't brushed off the Cam Newton case ... they merely ruled that they did not have the immediate evidence to declare him ineligible. They emphasized at the time that the investigation is on-going.

Understand, the NCAA acts slowly. It took more than two years to nail USC after its transgressions. The UNC case is not likely to come to head until this summer or next fall ... maybe longer. Auburn still faces its day of reckogning.

As for Tressell and his guilt. I find it interesting that after he left, Youngstown State was placed on probation and one of the prime charges were sweetheart deals with local car dealership. And one of the claims that Maurice Claret made when he blew up was that Ohio State arranged for him to get free use of a car. Of course, no one believed him at the time, but now, you've got to wonder.

[moonpie23]

to me, it's a real shame that the process takes so long. Of course the schools will still be there and their punishment will simply be a chronological delay, but to incoming athletes, the window of opportunity for a group having success is derailed a year, two years, three years down the line by "ancient history"......


it's too bad Thor's hammer is so slow...not so much in the "Norse God sense of Good vs. Evil", but more so in the "NCAA takes it's sweet time" kind of way...

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Unless something new comes out, Tressel's not going anywhere and OSU is not getting the death penalty.

The car situation appears to be overblown: guys were getting used Dodge Chargers at prices that do not appear to have been distinguishable from what the average joe would have been required to pay. Does it sound bad? If it's reported as "OSU players got cars for free!" Absolutely. Did that happen? Nope.

The tattoo situation itself was clearly a violation of NCAA rules. OSU should be punished accordingly.

But none of the players were getting houses (USC) or hundreds of thousands of dollars (Auburn) or undue assistance in coursework or using steroids, etc. Indeed, OSU's team GPA is tops in the Big Ten, the team's GPA has soared under Tressel's tenure, and despite the conspicuous troublemakers (Ray Small, Maurice Clarett), the program has improved drastically in every conceivable way under Tressel, despite what Pat Forde wants to be the case.

Don't take my word for it. Here's what former Duke and Ohio State football player Harrison Twill had to say:
I don't remember Harrison Twill from his playing days at Duke. But congratulations to him for what must be the first player to transfer from Duke to OSU (in the modern era anyway) in football! What position did he play?

I'm glad that Tressel has done such an outstanding job of upgrading the academic side of OSU football. I had no idea. I wish other coaches would do the same; then it wouldn't be so difficult for Duke to compete with the other major programs in the ACC and across the country.

[Mike Corey]

Harrison Till (not Twill...my mistake) was a longsnapper for OSU and Duke, and in Durham he was one of the more popular students on campus (http://dukechronicle.com/article/seal-trained-two-sport-big-man-campus), as reported in this piece for The Chronicle in '04. He was well-acclimated with athletics at Duke, being a star thrower on the track team, rooming with Shav Randolph, and finding time for varsity football, too.

[roywhite]

Sounds like Tressell has a problem that is fatal to his job. When his tenure can't be projected beyond a few weeks and he's already suspended for several games, any additional drip-drip means the end is near.

ESPN is reporting he has resigned.

[Newton_14]

ESPN is reporting he has resigned.

Here is the link:
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=6606999

Interesting development. Ohio St has a tall task to find a replacement this late in the game.

[SuperTurkey]

Here is the link:
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=6606999

Interesting development. Ohio St has a tall task to find a replacement this late in the game.

RichRod's looking for work. :D

[JasonEvans]

Asst Coach Fickell will coach next season while they search for a long-term replacement.

Whoever said he would not make it thru Memorial Day... mad props!!

-Jason

[JasonEvans]

Interesting article (written before Tres resigned) on why Ohio State won't get hit as hard as USC.


But there's an important point lost in the rush to bury the Buckeyes that bears repeating. Despite all appearances of decorum run amok, all the NCAA asks of its member institutions in these situations is to stay out in front of the matter. Don't obfuscate: Investigate. Admit you screwed up. Hit yourself over the head with the hammer first. Even those that overtly lie and cheat will still get leniency if they come across as forthright in their internal probe.

Ohio State's doing that.

USC didn't.

-Jason "of course, Jim Calhoun didn't accept any blame for the mess at UCon and he avoided any serious sanctions" Evans

[Mike Corey]

I clearly have no OSU inside information. :)

Darn it! I owe Ozzie a dinner at Angus Barn! Inconceivable!

[roywhite]

I clearly have no OSU inside information. :)

Darn it! I owe Ozzie a dinner at Angus Barn! Inconceivable!

What does the reaction to Tressel's exit seem to be in the local Columbus media and Buckeye nation?

I'm wondering if they aren't just looking to get the next full-time football coach (Urban Meyer?) and get on with winning, or if there is some sense that the program has gone seriously astray and needs deep cleaning?

[Mike Corey]

I'll have a better sense tomorrow of how people are reacting since it's a holiday. My guess: diehard fans are infuriated; most in Columbus are probably a mix of disappointed and relieved.

People have already started calling for AD Smith to resign.

Fickell is as good as anyone to hold the program together for a year. Target #1 will surely be Urban Meyer.

This move will go a long way in shielding OSU from NCAA penalties.

SI has a story being published online later today that purportedly put the OSU Admin past the tipping point.

[muzikfrk75]

I'll have a better sense tomorrow of how people are reacting since it's a holiday. My guess: diehard fans are infuriated; most in Columbus are probably a mix of disappointed and relieved.

People have already started calling for AD Smith to resign.

Fickell is as good as anyone to hold the program together for a year. Target #1 will surely be Urban Meyer.

This move will go a long way in shielding OSU from NCAA penalties.

SI has a story being published online later today that purportedly put the OSU Admin past the tipping point.

This is what I'm waiting for.

[BD80]

RichRod's looking for work. :D

OSU is undefeated in games he coached!

[muzikfrk75]

Sports Illustrated
@SI_24Seven Sports Illustrated
Later today on SI.com, SI will release a special investigative report on Jim Tressel and Ohio State's football’s program.


http://twitter.com/#!/SI_24Seven/status/75246718064660480


...Ruh roh.

[Sandman]

A question for the group: How does THE OSU football scandal and it's repercussions differ from the UNCCH football scandal? From what I've read, the OSU situation does not appear to be nearly as severe as the UNCCH debacle, yet OSU seems to be responding much faster and more decisively. Should the Butch(er) be worried? This does not seem to reflect well on how the UNCCH administration has addressed their rules violations.

[jkidd31]

We're in the process of moving to Columbus and are here this w/e. It's been going around for quite a few weeks that Urban Meyer was looking at homes in Upper Arlington, but does not want to start coaching again until 2012. This happening and having Fickell be the interim coach for this season so "search" can begin after the 2011 season ends will undoubtedly fuel that speculation even more.

What's sad is if Tressel would have come clean, the Tat Five would have got a few game suspension to start the 2010 season and this would be over. Sometimes it's better to say oops then trying to cover your mess up.

[sagegrouse]

A question for the group: How does THE OSU football scandal and it's repercussions differ from the UNCCH football scandal? From what I've read, the OSU situation does not appear to be nearly as severe as the UNCCH debacle, yet OSU seems to be responding much faster and more decisively. Should the Butch(er) be worried? This does not seem to reflect well on how the UNCCH administration has addressed their rules violations.

Also covered in another thread:

(a) Lack of Institutional Control. Tressel rec'd an e-mail on a potential violation and passed it on to a mentor or older friend of the player named instead of to OSU compliance officers or attorneys. Given Tressel's position as the long-time and highly paid football coach, I would hazard a guess that this fully met the definition of lack of institutional control.

(b) The Coverup. He lied about the e-mail in December, and as all recognize, the coverup is judged worse than the crime.

At UNC I don't believe we have heard of a smoking gun found in the hands of Butch Davis. I expect UNC to get punished severely, but I don't think Butch is in the same position as Tressel, although I expect there were as many or more violations at UNC as at Ohio State.

sagegrouse

[mph]

People have already started calling for AD Smith to resign.

I'm interested to see how this plays out for President Gee. While I doubt he's going anywhere, his handling of this situation has been very poor. His quip during the initial press conference - "I just hope [Tressel] doesn't dismiss me" - was bizarrely tone deaf and set precisely the wrong tone. Taken with his earlier "little sisters of the poor" gaffe, it's easy to paint him as a president who values football success more than the integrity of his school. It's a shame given his history at Vanderbilt and other universities, but his public image is a liability to OSU.

[tommy]

We're in the process of moving to Columbus and are here this w/e. It's been going around for quite a few weeks that Urban Meyer was looking at homes in Upper Arlington, but does not want to start coaching again until 2012. This happening and having Fickell be the interim coach for this season so "search" can begin after the 2011 season ends will undoubtedly fuel that speculation even more.

What's sad is if Tressel would have come clean, the Tat Five would have got a few game suspension to start the 2010 season and this would be over. Sometimes it's better to say oops then trying to cover your mess up.

Sometimes?

Of course there will be a lot of talk about Urban Meyer. But for a program now dealing with the public perception that it is "renegade," I'm not sure they're going to want to hire a coach whose players were arrested over 30 times in his six years in Gainesville. That might be hard for even Gordon Gee to laugh off.

I could easily see OSU going after another big name coach who is a proven winner, who has Ohio roots, and maintains a clean reputation, and who would be killer on the recruiting trail. Obviously, I'm speaking of Jon Gruden.

[sagegrouse]

On the front page of www.si.com.

Sagegrouse

[moonpie23]

man, the hammer is down and the splatter is just beginning to be shown...


any SI guys hanging around the well?

[Newton_14]

On the front page of www.si.com.

Sagegrouse

That article is very revealing and damning. If the allegations are true, Tressel was involved in wrongdoing from his time as an assistant coach at OSU in the early 80's, and the entire time he was head coach at Youngstown and OSU. This is far worse than most imagined and involves many players both past and present. I think OSU just one-upped USC...

[Mike Corey]

We're in the process of moving to Columbus

I am a Columbus native and live here now. If you ever have any questions about anything, I'm at your service.

~

Back on topic: I would not have published that article in the Duke Chronicle. The allegations were considerably flimsier than anticipated, with the most damning allegations being sourced by convicted criminals or anonymous sources or guys (Rob Rose, Ray Small) who had axes to grind with Tressel. Need to have two solid sources to run with it, and SI did not demonstrate that.

That's a very good reporter who just published a very shaky piece rooted in innuendo rather than fact. Disappointing.

That said: Paired with that which is already known--Tressel lying, and individual players' acts of indiscretion in obtaining tattoos for memorabilia--I suspect the guy who pulls the strings at OSU (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Les_Wexner) said enough was enough.

I was proud to be a Duke alum when the media had a heyday bashing the University during the lacrosse imbroglio, and I am prouder now that Duke has come out stronger and better on the other side; I am proud to be an OSU alum and student now, and will be prouder still if OSU learns from its many missteps and treats this crisis as an opportunity rather than a curse.

[Wander]

I was proud to be a Duke alum when the media had a heyday bashing the University during the lacrosse imbroglio, and I am prouder now that Duke has come out stronger and better on the other side; I am proud to be an OSU alum and student now, and will be prouder still if OSU learns from its many missteps and treats this crisis as an opportunity rather than a curse.

I rarely pull the "Duke alum" card, but I'd appreciate it if you didn't compare my school to the jokers and criminals involved in this situation.

Even if every allegation from an anonymous/criminal/"axe to grind" source is false - a scenario I find incredibly unlikely - there's enough here to prove your Duke/OSU comparison lazy at best. This isn't a "rush to judgment" a la Duke Lax - the evidence against Tressel has been building for months, not slowly exposed.

On the actual topic, I've never been able to find any moral outrage for players who take cash because their families are struggling with poverty. Players and coaches who break rules just to seduce recruits, get tattoos, or drive lots of cars? That's another story.

[Mike Corey]

Goodness, Wander, I'm not comparing the specifics of the situation, only the fact that the schools went through periods of frenzied media criticism with one--Duke--coming out better on the other side.

It is my hope and expectation that OSU will do the same.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

I'll go out on a very short limb and predict that Jim Tressel will not survive the summer as OSU's coach. He may not make it to Memorial Day, much less Independence Day.


I'll take that bet for a dinner at Angus Barn!

(We're gonna get that in one way or the other.)


I clearly have no OSU inside information. :)

Darn it! I owe Ozzie a dinner at Angus Barn! Inconceivable!
Well, well, well! Here I am back from Siberia, travel arrangements courtesy of one of our fine mods, and I'm hungry as all get out!

Seriously, Mike, I'm amazed that my call about Memorial Day turned out so accurate. I would much have preferred my call about the early date for Kyrie's return had been the one that was correct, believe me!

So when would you like to do this? I'm sure several other locals would like to join us (at their own expense) and make it a real early summer get together. This week is probably not good, especially since a certain recently graduated Duke cheerleader is getting married on Saturday and her DDad (who I know would like to join us) is sort of busy with father of the bride stuff (although maybe he'd love to get out of the house on Thursday night...) :cool:

[Mike Corey]

So when would you like to do this? I'm sure several other locals would like to join us (at their own expense) and make it a real early summer get together. This week is probably not good, especially since a certain recently graduated Duke cheerleader is getting married on Saturday and her DDad (who I know would like to join us) is sort of busy with father of the bride stuff (although maybe he'd love to get out of the house on Thursday night...) :cool:

I am unfortunately tethered to Columbus through June. Perhaps a Saturday in July? If not then, perhaps a home football weekend this season? And the more the merrier! (Congratulations to whomever you're referring to with the soon-to-be-wed daughter!). We can finalize arrangements via PM so I don't get dinged by the mods. :)

[roywhite]

I am unfortunately tethered to Columbus through June. Perhaps a Saturday in July? If not then, perhaps a home football weekend this season? And the more the merrier! (Congratulations to whomever you're referring to with the soon-to-be-wed daughter!). We can finalize arrangements via PM so I don't get dinged by the mods. :)

Mike Corey, you're a fine and honorable gentleman.

Unfortunately, it is becoming apparent that Jim Tressel was not the man of integrity that he appeared to be. More details from a long SI piece just posted: Investigation reveals 8-year pattern of violations under Tressel. (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/magazine/05/30/jim.tressel/index.html?eref=sihp&sct=hp_t11_a2)


For more than a decade, Ohioans have viewed Tressel as a pillar of rectitude, and have disregarded or made excuses for the allegations and scandal that have quietly followed him throughout his career. His integrity was one of the great myths of college football. Like a disgraced politician who preaches probity but is caught in lies, the Senator was not the person he purported to be.

[JasonEvans]

I would not have published that article in the Duke Chronicle. The allegations were considerably flimsier than anticipated, with the most damning allegations being sourced by convicted criminals or anonymous sources or guys (Rob Rose, Ray Small) who had axes to grind with Tressel. Need to have two solid sources to run with it, and SI did not demonstrate that.

That's a very good reporter who just published a very shaky piece rooted in innuendo rather than fact. Disappointing.

Mike,

I think you are letting your Ohio State allegiances color your opinion of the piece. And, regarding your assertion that the story seemed single sourced, you should know that just because a story only cites one on-the-record source, that does not mean the reporter did not obtain additional, off-the-record confirmations.

I have worked closely with some investigative journalists in my time and it would not be unlikely for us to get multiple sources telling us a story, but none of them wanting to go on-the-record with a quote. In cases like that, we would have no problem telling the public the result of our investigation.

Also, I do not see the single-sourcing that troubles you so much in that article. In fact, especially in the section toward the end of the article dealing with the tattoo parlor allegations, there appear to be multiple sources cited by SI confirming the story. SI seems to have gone out of its way to get at least 2 or 3 sources cited numerous places in the article. What's more, when a pro-Ohio State source refutes an allegation, SI often goes to other sources to disprove the refutation. I see this as a very thorough article.

Regarding the allegations in the SI article, they are extremely troubling. One read of it and you can see why Ohio State had to get rid of him right away (I doubt he resigned -- they likely gave him a choice between resignation with a decent buyout or being fired). Anyway, the article just goes on and on with allegations. If even a few of them are true, Jim Tressell is just not an honorable man.

The one that bothers me the most is the rigging of raffles at Ohio State football camps so Tressell could make sure that elite recruits won the prizes in the raffles. This line from the article is just so damning.


Says the former colleague, who asked not to be identified because he still has ties to the Ohio State community, "In the morning he would read the Bible with another coach. Then, in the afternoon, he would go out and cheat kids who had probably saved up money from mowing lawns to buy those raffle tickets. That's Jim Tressel."

Whew... that's nasty!

-Jason "my bet is that the NCAA makes it impossible to Tressell to work again in college football" Evans

[roywhite]

Pete Hamel in the NYT summarizes some of the issues regarding NCAA action in the Ohio State situation with his column Buckeyes trials with Tressel are test for NCAA (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/31/sports/ncaafootball/buckeyes-trials-with-tressel-are-test-for-ncaa.html)


The university, especially Gee and Smith, will also have to explain why it initially decided to suspend Tressel for just two games when his lying and cover-up appeared worthy of his being fired from the start. In an era when lying to the N.C.A.A., as in the cases of Oklahoma State receiver Dez Bryant and the Tennessee men’s basketball coach Bruce Pearl, has become a mortal sin, Buckeyes administrators will have to justify why they thought Tressel should have missed only games against Akron and Toledo.


But a huge factor in who Ohio State will be able to lure will be just how hampered the program is by the N.C.A.A. Ohio State is staring at significant N.C.A.A. sanctions, the severity of which will define its program and N.C.A.A. enforcement in the months to come.



**Edit to add: I'm sure the NCAA actions regarding Ohio State will be followed with great interest in Chapel Hill, also. Though it's not clear about which situation will be decided first.

[tommy]

On the actual topic, I've never been able to find any moral outrage for players who take cash because their families are struggling with poverty. Players and coaches who break rules just to seduce recruits, get tattoos, or drive lots of cars? That's another story.

This angle has been troubling me as well. Whenever the issue of outright paying players comes up, whether it be stipends or whatever, it's framed in terms of these guys needing money to take a girl out for pizza, to put gas in their beat-up old cars, to go to the movies, etc. But this story exposes that what these guys really want -- the currency they value. They're not selling memorabilia in return for a few bucks to take a girl out for pizza and a movie. No, they're buying tattoos with the "profits" from their jerseys, rings, cleats, and other OSU stuff.

It's hard to really keep making the argument that so many of these college players are just in such dire need, in such abject poverty that they NEED to be given stipends, when what they -- or at least some of them -- do with it is buy things like tattoos over a period of many months.

[duke09hms]

I was proud to be a Duke alum when the media had a heyday bashing the University during the lacrosse imbroglio, and I am prouder now that Duke has come out stronger and better on the other side; I am proud to be an OSU alum and student now, and will be prouder still if OSU learns from its many missteps and treats this crisis as an opportunity rather than a curse.

Think someone else mentioned this, but I'll just reiterate. There's really no comparison between Duke and Ohio State in what happened for the simple reason that Duke was entirely innocent and put through undeserved scrutiny and speculation with NO evidence. Whereas with OSU, there's more than enough evidence and guilt. Duke was the victim, OSU is not.

From those experiences, Duke can learn how to deal with controversy better. Ohio State can learn not to break rules flagrantly and try to cover them up.

[sagegrouse]

Orig. posted by Roy White:


Pete Hamel in the NYT summarizes some of the issues regarding NCAA action in the Ohio State situation with his column Buckeyes trials with Tressel are test for NCAA




The university, especially Gee and Smith, will also have to explain why it initially decided to suspend Tressel for just two games when his lying and cover-up appeared worthy of his being fired from the start. In an era when lying to the N.C.A.A., as in the cases of Oklahoma State receiver Dez Bryant and the Tennessee men’s basketball coach Bruce Pearl, has become a mortal sin, Buckeyes administrators will have to justify why they thought Tressel should have missed only games against Akron and Toledo.


If I were Gee or Smith and answering why Ohio State "initially decided to suspend Tressel for just two games," I would say.... "Jim Tressel was the most popular man in the State of Ohio last winter. We knew he couldn't survive this egregious action, but we had to let some weeks or months pass before the inevitable occurred and the Ohio State fans and Ohio citizens would be more understanding and accepting of this outcome. While it seems like an odd explanation, these are the realities. Now [says President Gee] I do wish I hadn't joked that Coach Tressel might fire me instead of the opposite."

sagegrouse

[JasonEvans]

An interesting thought--


If Jim Tressell was willing to rig silly raffles to lure high-profile recruits to Ohio State at the expense of lesser talented kids...

If Tressell was willing to direct players to boosters and trustees at Youngstown State and Ohio State who would "take care" of the players while they were in school...

If the attitude of "extra benefits" and "looking the other way" was so pervasive at Ohio State that the compliance office was directing dozens of players to go to a specific car dealership that was "friendly" to tOSU athletes...


Are we really supposed to believe that this is a school that did not break the rules in terms of funneling cash and other benefits to recruits? Why on Earth only flaunt the rules with kids who were already on campus and performing well for the you? Wouldn't you also cut corners and try to get an illegal advantage in recruiting, perhaps the most important time that illegal benefits can benefit a program?

I would ask about the attitude of these same boosters and supporters regarding other sports, but there has so far been no indication that this extends outside the footbal program. Still, one has to wonder a little bit -- if they were willing to provide cash and benefits to football players, is it unreasonable to think the same thing might have been happening in a certain other high-profile sport at which Ohio State excels?

--Jason "maybe it is bad form for me to even bring that last stuff up..." Evans

[Duvall]

Still, one has to wonder a little bit -- if they were willing to provide cash and benefits to football players, is it unreasonable to think the same thing might have been happening in a certain other high-profile sport at which Ohio State excels?

Absent any kind of evidence, or even rumor? Yes, it is unreasonable.

[Indoor66]

I would ask about the attitude of these same boosters and supporters regarding other sports, but there has so far been no indication that this extends outside the footbal program. Still, one has to wonder a little bit -- if they were willing to provide cash and benefits to football players, is it unreasonable to think the same thing might have been happening in a certain other high-profile sport at which Ohio State excels?

--Jason "maybe it is bad form for me to even bring that last stuff up..." Evans

I think this might well be construed as rumor mongering under the guidelines.

[SoCalDukeFan]

Pete Hamel in the NYT summarizes some of the issues regarding NCAA action in the Ohio State situation with his column Buckeyes trials with Tressel are test for NCAA (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/31/sports/ncaafootball/buckeyes-trials-with-tressel-are-test-for-ncaa.html)





**Edit to add: I'm sure the NCAA actions regarding Ohio State will be followed with great interest in Chapel Hill, also. Though it's not clear about which situation will be decided first.

will be followed closely in Los Angeles.

SoCal

[allenmurray]

if they were willing to provide cash and benefits to football players, is it unreasonable to think the same thing might have been happening in a certain other high-profile sport at which Ohio State excels?


I don't think it is unreasonable at all - both sports shared the same athletic director, who clearly did not see compliance as a high priority.

[Olympic Fan]

I don't think it is unreasonable at all - both sports shared the same athletic director, who clearly did not see compliance as a high priority.

Keep in mind, Gene Smith (then at Iowa State) was Nan Keohane's choice for AD to succeed Tom Butters. At least he was the guy picked by her search committee.

Luckily, Mike Krzyzewski vetoed the pick and forced them to hire Joe Alleva. Now, I don't think Alleva was a great choice, but he was infinintly better than the alternative: Gene Smith.

[Mike Corey]

Think someone else mentioned this, but I'll just reiterate. There's really no comparison between Duke and Ohio State in what happened for the simple reason that Duke was entirely innocent and put through undeserved scrutiny and speculation with NO evidence. Whereas with OSU, there's more than enough evidence and guilt. Duke was the victim, OSU is not.

From those experiences, Duke can learn how to deal with controversy better. Ohio State can learn not to break rules flagrantly and try to cover them up.

I want to apologize for making a poorly articulated comparison that inferred the point you're rightly criticizing me for above.

The point I was attempting to make--in vain--was only regarding negative media coverage and how a school recovered from it.

I am troubled that my words were so poorly chosen so as to insinuate that the content of the Duke and Ohio State situations were even remotely similar. If I've offended anyone, I apologize profusely.

~

Jason, your assessment of my bias is almost assuredly correct. I was, admittedly, fired up last night, and I suspect that a second or third read through of the story would indicate that it wasn't as flimsy as I first concluded. I should have followed the customary DBR rule of not posting while angry.

I stand by the contention that Tressel is not the Janus he's being made out to be (with much glee...sorry for the rhyme), but stepping back from it today, I can certainly understand how and why such extrapolations are being drawn from that which is known. It is my hope that his reputation will not be wholly tarnished by the past six months: he's done much good in Columbus and elsewhere, and many of the assumptions being drawn about players being paid and so forth remain baseless, no matter how enticing such assumptions might be.

[JasonEvans]

Absent any kind of evidence, or even rumor? Yes, it is unreasonable.


I think this might well be construed as rumor mongering under the guidelines.

I really thought about it before posting what I posted. I was not intending to start a rumor nor do I think my post constitutes a rumor. Still, I feel kinda dirty for even going there. I am sure investigative journalists and the NCAA will be looking so thoroughly at Ohio State that, if anything is amiss elsewhere in the athletic department, they will find it.

I feel that what I posted is sorta like this--


A farmer is known for his prize winning pigs and cows. He has some of the finest pigs and cows at any animal show. But, at one show, it is discovered that his pig handler has been giving steroids to the pigs in order to make them bigger and show better. Some of the farmhands who help with the pigs were the guys who went to the drug store to buy the steroids and hormones. All indications are that the farmer knew about it and looked the other way.

There is a totally different cow handler. He works at the same farm as the pig handler, but they don't interact very much. Those farmhands, who bought the drugs, also work with the cows. At some point, someone is bound to ask, "if he is cheating with his pigs, who is to say he isn't also cheating with those prize-winning cows too!?!?"

--Jason "I agree, there is nothing to indicate anything is going on with hoops or other Ohio State sports... and Thad Matta certainly does not have a shady rep" Evans

[moonpie23]

mike, who has left a greater stain? woody? or Tressel?

[CameronBornAndBred]

I think this might well be construed as rumor mongering under the guidelines.
I bet GP3 agrees!

[Verga3]

Keep in mind, Gene Smith (then at Iowa State) was Nan Keohane's choice for AD to succeed Tom Butters. At least he was the guy picked by her search committee.

Luckily, Mike Krzyzewski vetoed the pick and forced them to hire Joe Alleva. Now, I don't think Alleva was a great choice, but he was infinintly better than the alternative: Gene Smith.

Whew...and Joe Alleva was a great choice.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Keep in mind, Gene Smith (then at Iowa State) was Nan Keohane's choice for AD to succeed Tom Butters. At least he was the guy picked by her search committee.

Luckily, Mike Krzyzewski vetoed the pick and forced them to hire Joe Alleva. Now, I don't think Alleva was a great choice, but he was infinintly better than the alternative: Gene Smith.
I still think I was the best man, and right choice for the AD job. If only Tallman Trask had granted me the chance to interview. I'd still have the job today.

[BD80]

... --Jason "I agree, there is nothing to indicate anything is going on with hoops or other Ohio State sports... and Thad Matta certainly does not have a shady rep" Evans

Actually, I think there is just cause for speculation. You have a "corporate culture" of cheating overlooked or sanctioned by the AD. Other athletes at the school would know of the special benefits the football players were receiving and would wonder why they weren't getting them too. There would be crossover in boosters between the programs. Success in recruiting is another factor.

Is it reason to say they cheated? No. Is it enough to merit discussion? I think so.

[Mike Corey]

mike, who has left a greater stain? woody? or Tressel?

I suspect that, 10, 20 years from now, Tressel's stain will be much more significant. Most people only seem to remember Woody's punch, but not his many other transgressions.

Most people seem to have already dismissed Tressel's successes for his lying.

Woody is an almost mythical creature here. Tressel never reached that status, though he was and remains beloved to many.

[gumbomoop]

--Jason "I agree, there is nothing to indicate anything is going on with hoops or other Ohio State sports... and Thad Matta certainly does not have a shady rep" Evans

Well, one poster, at least, disagrees:


Living in SE Michigan now, you hear alot of questionable things about the way Thad Motta and his coaching staff does things in terms of recruiting and during games, so it is hard for me to get behind and root for Ohio State in football or anything else....

A few weeks back, on another thread entirely, I was gushing over how great Aaron Craft is, and the above comment did catch my eye. I don't know whether it's reasonable or unreasonable to speculate about corruption in the AthDept at tOSU; and perhaps any criticism of tOSU from folks in Michigan is by definition untrustworthy. I guess all we can do is stay tuned.

I hold no brief either for or against Matta. I do prefer that any developments not affect Craft's time at tOSU, as he's a special player. Sullinger seems a happy-go-lucky kid, too.

[sagegrouse]

See the link (http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/colleges/ohio-states-jim-tressel-gets-axed-but-rotting-wood-remains-in-college-athletics/2011/05/31/AGYF2PFH_story.html) from today's WaPo.


Let’s start with this: Tressel resigned the way Richard Nixon resigned. Even with his hapless bosses, Ohio State President E. Gordon Gee and Athletic Director Gene Smith, trying to push back the growing wave of accusations, Tressel finally ran out of the nine lives given to a coach with a record of 106-22.


sagegrouse

[roywhite]

Well, one poster, at least, disagrees:



A few weeks back, on another thread entirely, I was gushing over how great Aaron Craft is, and the above comment did catch my eye. I don't know whether it's reasonable or unreasonable to speculate about corruption in the AthDept at tOSU; and perhaps any criticism of tOSU from folks in Michigan is by definition untrustworthy. I guess all we can do is stay tuned.

I hold no brief either for or against Matta. I do prefer that any developments not affect Craft's time at tOSU, as he's a special player. Sullinger seems a happy-go-lucky kid, too.

Yeah, I don't have much of an impression of whether Matta is running a clean program or not; haven't really seen much to indicate problems, but that's an interesting observation you quote.

What I am pretty sure about is that Matta is not getting much help and guidance from AD Smith and Preisdent Gee. They've already demonstrated at best a look-the-other-way posture toward the football program, and perhaps a lack of competence and integrity themselves. Wouldn't be surprised to see both lose their jobs also.

[JStuart]

Which brings up a question of, what accountability and/or responsibility does an AD, or a Chancellor, have in this type of situation? For what are they paid the big bucks?
It would -of course- be churlish of me to suggest that the AD's at tOSU and unc-ch might be honorable enough to accept responsibility and resign, but don't they have supervisory responsibility?
Inquiring minds want to know.


Yeah, I don't have much of an impression of whether Matta is running a clean program or not; haven't really seen much to indicate problems, but that's an interesting observation you quote.

What I am pretty sure about is that Matta is not getting much help and guidance from AD Smith and Preisdent Gee. They've already demonstrated at best a look-the-other-way posture toward the football program, and perhaps a lack of competence and integrity themselves. Wouldn't be surprised to see both lose their jobs also.

[JasonEvans]

See the link (http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/colleges/ohio-states-jim-tressel-gets-axed-but-rotting-wood-remains-in-college-athletics/2011/05/31/AGYF2PFH_story.html) from today's WaPo.

Good link/article my fine feathered friend.

For folks who have not read the article, I recommend reading page 2 of it for the following notion --


Some have speculated that if Ohio State and other big-time programs get nailed by the infractions committee in the coming years, the six BCS conferences and a few other power programs may break away and form their own super division that won’t have an encyclopedia-thick rule book.

Pay the players, don’t worry about whether anyone graduates and count the cash as it rolls in.

That’s what should happen. Ninety-nine percent of the fans who attend college football and basketball games couldn’t care less if their players are being paid, whether they’re going to class, whether they’re selling memorabilia, receiving free tattoos or being ‘sold’ cars for $100 down and pay the rest in touchdowns later.

They want their teams to win; they want to have their tailgates; and they want to be entertained. Period.

I know Feinstein is "out there" sometimes, but this is really radical. I think it is a poor idea, as even among BCS schools there are inequities in budgets and financial resources. The last thing we want is an all-out bidding war for high school players. Plus, under Feinstein's scenario, I have a hard time seeing these players as any kind of students. Many would not even be asked or expected to go to class.

I do think that there can be a way to get some "walking around money" in the pockets of scholarship athletes. For years I have been saying that scholarship athletes should be given an hourly wage for NCAA regulated practice time, the same as the students who restack books in the library or who check's ids at the entrance to the student center -- likely around $7/hour.

No, it would not be enough to buy an Escalade, but it would probably be a couple hundred dollars a week and might discourage a little bit of the cheating that goes on with small benefits to athletes.

--Jason "I dunno, I really just wanted to highlight Feinstein's rather radical notion of how all this plays out" Evans

[DukieInKansas]

Good link/article my fine feathered friend.

For folks who have not read the article, I recommend reading page 2 of it for the following notion --



I know Feinstein is "out there" sometimes, but this is really radical. I think it is a poor idea, as even among BCS schools there are inequities in budgets and financial resources. The last thing we want is an all-out bidding war for high school players. Plus, under Feinstein's scenario, I have a hard time seeing these players as any kind of students. Many would not even be asked or expected to go to class.

I do think that there can be a way to get some "walking around money" in the pockets of scholarship athletes. For years I have been saying that scholarship athletes should be given an hourly wage for NCAA regulated practice time, the same as the students who restack books in the library or who check's ids at the entrance to the student center -- likely around $7/hour.

No, it would not be enough to buy an Escalade, but it would probably be a couple hundred dollars a week and might discourage a little bit of the cheating that goes on with small benefits to athletes.

--Jason "I dunno, I really just wanted to highlight Feinstein's rather radical notion of how all this plays out" Evans

I'm proud to say that I'm in Feinstein's 1% - I do care if student athletes are working on the student part of that description. I agree that student athletes should receive some kind of a stipend. Between the time they spend studying and practicing and playing, they don't have time to get a part-time job. Not all, in fact probably not most, of them come from families that are able to give them much help in spending money.

[Mal]

this is really radical. I think it is a poor idea

Agreed. Feinstein's way off on this and misses one of the biggest points of college athletics. To suggest that fans of collegiate sports wouldn't reject the dissonance of institutions of higher learning just sponsoring straight up professional football teams, with non-student rosters, is ridiculous. We all know the idea of amateur purity in big time college sports is a myth by now, but there's still some connection between the teams and the schools, and the fact that (theoretically, at least, and in most cases, actually) the players go to class and graduate one way or another is important to fans. Alumni are the most important fans and supporters, followed by local residents, who (despite knowing a lot of student-athletes are a lot more athlete than student) like to find some way to see in the program they support some reflection of what they think of as admirable about the school, region or state. If it's all just mercenary professionalism, why should it be attached to a school at all?

A lot of people would be just fine with college football and/or basketball being replaced, or greatly diminished in importance, by a true minor league system being instituted. But I suspect they'd mostly recoil at the idea of the teams in such a league being formally tied to universities.

[Olympic Fan]

mike, who has left a greater stain? woody? or Tressel?

I have some inside info from a young lady I dated back in the eighties. She was a grd student at Ohio State during Woody's last years and through the first few years of the Earl Bruce regime.

While in Colimbus, she worked as a tutor for the OSU football program. In her first year on the job, she was working with a star player who kept missing scheduled sessions and dodging his work. With trepidation, she took the news to Woody and was suprised when he blew up -- at the player and suspended him. She said that in two years of working with Hayes, he was always a straight arrow on the academic side, insisting that his guys do the work or not play.

She said all of that changed when Bruce arrived. She saw players start to slide on their assigments and said the new staff leaned on the academic people to cut corners and to cover up the problems. She resigned as a tutor.

I mention this because the perception was that Hayes was a hard-headed, hot-headed neanderthal, while Bruce was portrayed (like Tressell) as a professorial type coach.

Well, perceptions were wrong. Hayes might not have been able to control his temper on the sideline, but I like everyting else I've heard about him. Tressell projected well ... but was a sleazebag behind the facade.

In the long run, Woody will endure as the much more admirable character.

[BD80]

I have some inside info from a young lady I dated back in the eighties. She was a grd student at Ohio State during Woody's last years and through the first few years of the Earl Bruce regime.

While in Columbus, she worked as a tutor for the OSU football program. In her first year on the job, she was working with a star player who kept missing scheduled sessions and dodging his work. With trepidation, she took the news to Woody and was surprised when he blew up -- at the player and suspended him. She said that in two years of working with Hayes, he was always a straight arrow on the academic side, insisting that his guys do the work or not play.

She said all of that changed when Bruce arrived. She saw players start to slide on their assignments and said the new staff leaned on the academic people to cut corners and to cover up the problems. She resigned as a tutor.

I mention this because the perception was that Hayes was a hard-headed, hot-headed neanderthal, while Bruce was portrayed (like Tressell) as a professorial type coach.

Well, perceptions were wrong. Hayes might not have been able to control his temper on the sideline, but I like every ting else I've heard about him. Tressell projected well ... but was a sleazebag behind the facade.

In the long run, Woody will endure as the much more admirable character.

My understanding is that Woody and Bo were so straight, at least in part, because they couldn't bear the perception that they had an unfair advantage over the other.

As to the farce of the student-athlete, many SEC alum don't give a flip whether the players attend or pass classes.

[Mike Corey]

Well, perceptions were wrong. Hayes might not have been able to control his temper on the sideline, but I like everyting else I've heard about him. Tressell projected well ... but was a sleazebag behind the facade.

Tressel is not a sleazebag in the slightest. He made a an extremely poor decision in a career teeming with good deeds and accomplishments.

The story from SI about rigging a raffle was planted by a former coach Tressel fired, and is completely and utterly ridiculous.

As to Woody (http://markrea.wordpress.com/2011/03/22/tressel-woody-now-have-something-else-in-common/):


It would probably surprise many in the Buckeye Nation to know that Woody Hayes and his program were hit with a one-year probation by the Big Ten back in 1956. The reason? Several members of the football team were being paid for jobs despite the fact they were not showing up to work while others were receiving money directly from the coach himself.

And further:


The investigation was triggered by a lengthy story in the Oct. 24, 1955, issue of Sports Illustrated on the coach and his program titled “The Ohio State Story: Win or Else.” About three-quarters of the way through the piece, reporter Robert Shaplen wrote, “A recruit (for Ohio State football) can count on some financial help from Hayes if he is ‘in need.’ Woody insists he never forks up for a luxury … but it’s certainly also true that he makes sure he won’t lose any valuable men by financial default.”

During the 10-week investigation by the Big Ten – the NCAA never got involved – Hayes admitted he gave players money from his personal funds, but the coach steadfastly refused to name any player to whom he gave the money. He insisted his reasoning was not because he feared any penalty or sanction, saying he would not name names because he feared the players involved would suffer public embarrassment.

[tommy]

I'm proud to say that I'm in Feinstein's 1% - I do care if student athletes are working on the student part of that description. I agree that student athletes should receive some kind of a stipend. Between the time they spend studying and practicing and playing, they don't have time to get a part-time job. Not all, in fact probably not most, of them come from families that are able to give them much help in spending money.

The case for stipends is really undermined when the Ohio St. players are trading their memorabilia not for walking-around money, but rather for ink and weed. Those are the coin of the realm these days, it appears. Hard to evoke a lot of sympathy for a kid because he doesn't have the money to pay for more tats.

[SoCalDukeFan]

Jack Nicklaus is quoted in several places with:
"Once one of these things happens, by the time they get through digging they're going to find whether somebody had a hangnail someplace or not, whether somebody replaced it improperly."

USC had problems in basketball and football, which is bad. But in each sport it was only one player. So with all of the digging by Yahoo Sports, the LA media, the NCAA, SI, etc all that they could find in football was one player. Nothing on Lendale White or Mike Williams or Troy Polamalu or Carson Palmer or Matt Leinart or any of the other star players in the Pete Carroll era and they get hammered.

Ohio State had problems apparently with multiple players over many years.

Ohio State deserves everything USC got and more.

I am not defending USC here. Just saying things were as bad or worse in Columbus.

SoCal

[SoCalDukeFan]

Good link/article my fine feathered friend.

For folks who have not read the article, I recommend reading page 2 of it for the following notion --



I know Feinstein is "out there" sometimes, but this is really radical. I think it is a poor idea, as even among BCS schools there are inequities in budgets and financial resources. The last thing we want is an all-out bidding war for high school players. Plus, under Feinstein's scenario, I have a hard time seeing these players as any kind of students. Many would not even be asked or expected to go to class.

I do think that there can be a way to get some "walking around money" in the pockets of scholarship athletes. For years I have been saying that scholarship athletes should be given an hourly wage for NCAA regulated practice time, the same as the students who restack books in the library or who check's ids at the entrance to the student center -- likely around $7/hour.

No, it would not be enough to buy an Escalade, but it would probably be a couple hundred dollars a week and might discourage a little bit of the cheating that goes on with small benefits to athletes.

--Jason "I dunno, I really just wanted to highlight Feinstein's rather radical notion of how all this plays out" Evans

Count me in as one who does not like the idea.

And if it happens then I would hope that Duke would either go the U of Chicago route and drop sports or be part of some alternative that valued academics as well as athletics.

SoCal

[sagegrouse]

From Mike Corey: "As to Woody:"



It would probably surprise many in the Buckeye Nation to know that Woody Hayes and his program were hit with a one-year probation by the Big Ten back in 1956. The reason? Several members of the football team were being paid for jobs despite the fact they were not showing up to work while others were receiving money directly from the coach himself.

The 1940s and 1950s were the wild, wild west times of college sports. The abuses in athlete on-campus jobs led the NCAA to outlaw totally athletes receiving side income from the college. I seriously doubt that Ohio State was more than just another beast in a herd of wild buffalo.

sagegrouse
'And, yes, there were elevator operators in buildings without elevators'

[roywhite]

Steve Spurrier has an idea as to how to pay players a certain amount (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=6616618)


"A bunch of us coaches felt so strongly about it that we would be willing to pay it -- 70 guys, 300 bucks a game," Spurrier said. "That's only $21,000 a game. I doubt it will get passed, but as coaches in the SEC, we make all the money -- as do universities, television -- and we need to get more to our players.

"We would like to make that happen. Probably won't, but we'd love to do it."

The total cost would be less than $300,000 for a coach whose team plays 14 games. But Spurrier acknowledged that not every coach in the country would be able to do the same, and there certainly would be potential Title IX implications and other hurdles.

[cspan37421]

The problem with making it within the rules to pay players $X per game, is that the same boosters paying $Y under the table today will keep doing it, so players will officially get $X but unofficially get $X + $Y.

And who is to decide whether everyone or just starters or just "skill position" players get $X?

The balance of power will not change [1]; the cheating schools will still cheat. It will still be a bidding war for top talent.

[1] actually, financially strapped schools may fall further behind if they can't pony up $X.

[moonpie23]

mike, who has left a greater stain? woody? or Tressel?

actually, it was kind of rhetorical....i think to the average fan/public they will both be remembered for their falls more than the good things they might have done.

woody's legacy as a slugger, tressel's as the sweater-vest liar........you can list all the good stuff you want to about either of them, but they both messed it up.....

[OZZIE4DUKE]

As I heard an ex Michigan athlete say on ESPN radio today about Tressell

Hasta la vesta, baby!

[BlueDevil2K]

I have some inside info from a young lady I dated back in the eighties. She was a grd student at Ohio State during Woody's last years and through the first few years of the Earl Bruce regime.

While in Colimbus, she worked as a tutor for the OSU football program. In her first year on the job, she was working with a star player who kept missing scheduled sessions and dodging his work. With trepidation, she took the news to Woody and was suprised when he blew up -- at the player and suspended him. She said that in two years of working with Hayes, he was always a straight arrow on the academic side, insisting that his guys do the work or not play.

She said all of that changed when Bruce arrived. She saw players start to slide on their assigments and said the new staff leaned on the academic people to cut corners and to cover up the problems. She resigned as a tutor.

I mention this because the perception was that Hayes was a hard-headed, hot-headed neanderthal, while Bruce was portrayed (like Tressell) as a professorial type coach.

Well, perceptions were wrong. Hayes might not have been able to control his temper on the sideline, but I like everyting else I've heard about him. Tressell projected well ... but was a sleazebag behind the facade.

In the long run, Woody will endure as the much more admirable character.

Anybody who grew up in Columbus heard stories from the Woody era, and the behind-the-scenes stories that I've heard were all good. Just a couple...

1) When my Dad was a resident at OSU Hospital, he would often be around at odd hours (i.e. the middle of the night). He said that it was fairly common to come across Woody roaming the hospital at those same odd hours, popping into rooms to cheer up patients. He intentionally did this late at night so as to avoid the attention that he would have received during visiting hours.

2) From of all people, Duke's own Dr. Bonk. When he was a student at OSU, he was a tutor for some of the football players. One day on the way from Gross Chem to the Bryan Center we talked about "the good old days" when he worked with Woody. He had nothing but good things to say about the experience, much as Olympic Fan described.

3) Woody took academics seriously, and was quite a student of military history (for obvious reasons). His lecture notes from when he taught (at OSU, I believe) were the same notes that became the foundation for my fantastic high school world history class, two teachers removed.

I was in 3rd grade when Woody died, and Columbus was very much in mourning. People mentioned the sad way that his career ended, but they focused much more on all of the positives from his time at OSU and in Columbus. We'll see with time what Jim Tressel's legacy will be - the tone that I've heard from all of my friends and family is one of sadness, not of anger. If anybody, people are angry at the players who broke the rules more than they're angry at Tressel for not doing the right thing and reporting what he knew.

Links:

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/sports/stories/2011/06/01/osu-players-deserve-more-blame-for-this-mess.html?sid=101

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/sports/stories/2011/05/31/a-tarnished-legacy.html?sid=101

[JasonEvans]

It is about time someone treated this mess with a sense of humor (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=gallo/110602_coaching_compliance&sportCat=ncf).


Now walk back into practice, gather your team around and ask: "Gentlemen, who has a Nissan 350Z parked out there?" Anywhere from zero hands to the hands of every player on your team will be raised. If every player puts a hand up, you probably have a very good team. Congratulations! But there might also be something amiss. Better pass this information along to your compliance office.

Now, if no one raises a hand, you must take your sleuthing to the next level. After practice is over, look out at the parking lot and -- this part can be pretty complicated -- see who gets into the car. There's your driver! Neat, huh? And mystery solved!

-Jason

[devildeac]

It is about time someone treated this mess with a sense of humor (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=gallo/110602_coaching_compliance&sportCat=ncf).



-Jason

Might also want to ask which players are currently driving their 350/370Z without a valid driver's license:rolleyes:.

http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/06/02/1242128/pryor-seen-driving.html

[Mike Corey]

Might also want to ask which players are currently driving their 350/370Z without a valid driver's license:rolleyes:.

http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/06/02/1242128/pryor-seen-driving.html

Mr. Pryor has been reinstated, having shown proof of insurance.

The Nissan was purchased by his mother for $11,000, having traded in a Dodge Charger for approximately $8,000.

It all would appear to be legit, rather than nefarious.

[devildeac]

Mr. Pryor has been reinstated, having shown proof of insurance.

The Nissan was purchased by his mother for $11,000, having traded in a Dodge Charger for approximately $8,000.

It all would appear to be legit, rather than nefarious.

I saw the follow-up article in the News & Observer this am but did not have time to link it before heading out for my morning commute. Thanks for the update, Mike.

Who remembers Duke recruiting this fellow? IIRC, we were in his list of final candidates. (final 2 or 3 perhaps?)

[BD80]

Mr. Pryor has been reinstated, having shown proof of insurance.

The Nissan was purchased by his mother for $11,000, having traded in a Dodge Charger for approximately $8,000.

It all would appear to be legit, rather than nefarious.

I guess that depends on how one defines nefarious and legit:

"Pryor was photographed driving a used Nissan 350Z valued between $16,000 and $27,000 to and from the team meeting on Monday night. ...

His driving suspension took effect on May 20 and runs through Aug. 18. To regain his driving privileges after that, he will need to pay a $150 reinstatement fee, get insurance and carry a special card for high-risk drivers signifying that the driver is covered by insurance. ...

According to Ohio Bureau of Motor Vehicles records, Pryor was ticketed in November 2008 for driving 99 in a 65-mph zone and in March 2010 for driving 94 mph in a 65-mph zone."

http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/06/02/1242128/pryor-seen-driving.html#ixzz1ODPjsGym

Sounds like the $11,000 is a great deal, wonder if the $8,000 for the trade-in was excessive.

[MulletMan]

I mean, it really doesn't matter what comes out at this point, right? You can find any statistic or number on the internet to quote that will support the point that OSU players, coaches and staff were all complicit in a decade long run of cars for players and merchandise for tattoos, right? I mean, Tres was there for 10 years and there were about 80-100 players on the roster each season, so that's probably about 500 or so young men who came through the OSU football program over that time. Clearly they were all complicit in this stuff.

I mean, its out there now, and even though players who were named in the SI article are being cleared of doing anything wrong, they won't be cleared in the court of public opinion. Heck... Storm Klein was named as receiving free tats in the SI article. Problem is... he doesn't have any tattoos. Don't hear any of the incensed national media pointing that little inaccuracy out. But SI is standing by their story of a horrible scandalous problem that reaches to the highest levels of OSU. No way it could be a couple of bad apples.

No way it could be a chance to sell magazines. No way.

[Dukeface88]

[1] actually, financially strapped schools may fall further behind if they can't pony up $X.

And let's not forget the non-revenue sports either. If athletic departments need to pay football and basketball players to compete, the first place they'll look for funds is on their other teams - a good number of which already aren't fully funded. So while I can sympathize with the desire to compensate athletes for their work, I worry that the cost will be that each school cuts a dozen scholarships that would otherwise have gone to kids who are no less deserving than their more visible counterparts.

[jdk]

Who remembers Duke recruiting this fellow? IIRC, we were in his list of final candidates. (final 2 or 3 perhaps?)

IIRC, we were never really in the running for him. His visit was more about paying Coach Cut a visit at his new school (Duke) since they had developed a good relationship from the Tennessee recruitment. When Cutcliffe left Knoxville, Tennesee went from the leader to being dropped from Pryor's list completely.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/s_542990.html

[Mike Corey]

I guess that depends on how one defines nefarious and legit:

"Pryor was photographed driving a used Nissan 350Z valued between $16,000 and $27,000 to and from the team meeting on Monday night. ...

His driving suspension took effect on May 20 and runs through Aug. 18. To regain his driving privileges after that, he will need to pay a $150 reinstatement fee, get insurance and carry a special card for high-risk drivers signifying that the driver is covered by insurance. ...

According to Ohio Bureau of Motor Vehicles records, Pryor was ticketed in November 2008 for driving 99 in a 65-mph zone and in March 2010 for driving 94 mph in a 65-mph zone."

http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/06/02/1242128/pryor-seen-driving.html#ixzz1ODPjsGym

Sounds like the $11,000 is a great deal, wonder if the $8,000 for the trade-in was excessive.

The car was valued, therefore, at $19,000, well within the range provided by the N&O as being acceptable.

Pryor's traffic violation has nothing to do with the claims of wrongdoing, unless of course he did not get a ticket for excessive speeding. That accusation has not been made.

[-jk]

The hammer falls: USC's 2004 BCS title officially vacated (http://m.apnews.com/ap/db_8566/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=PUNPpf9O).

-jk

[throatybeard]

And if it happens then I would hope that Duke would either go the U of Chicago route and drop sports or be part of some alternative that valued academics as well as athletics.

Honestly, I'm just about ready for the Chicago route too. Obviously, it won't and can't happen as long as our legendary BB coach is around. But circa 2025, I wouldn't lose any sleep if we went hardcore D3.

[throatybeard]

The hammer falls: USC's 2004 BCS title officially vacated (http://m.apnews.com/ap/db_8566/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=PUNPpf9O).

-jk

I admit to a bit of petty BWAHAHAHAHAHAdenfreude on my part about this news.

[SoCalDukeFan]

The hammer falls: USC's 2004 BCS title officially vacated (http://m.apnews.com/ap/db_8566/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=PUNPpf9O).

-jk

I have no problem with USC's 2004 title being vacated. Reggie Bush by all accounts had received improper benefits and should not have been playing in the title game.

However Ohio State had multiple players who received improper benefits and they still were allowed to play in a BCS bowl game.

Cam Newton's father at least tried to get improper benefits yet Cam was allowed to play and Auburn is national champ.

Of course if I were cynical I could say that letting Ohio State and Auburn play at full strength probably made for better ratings and more money for everyone involved, but I am sure that had nothing to do with it.

SoCal

[ArnieMc]

I have no problem with USC's 2004 title being vacated. Reggie Bush by all accounts had received improper benefits and should not have been playing in the title game.

However Ohio State had multiple players who received improper benefits and they still were allowed to play in a BCS bowl game.

Cam Newton's father at least tried to get improper benefits yet Cam was allowed to play and Auburn is national champ.

Of course if I were cynical I could say that letting Ohio State and Auburn play at full strength probably made for better ratings and more money for everyone involved, but I am sure that had nothing to do with it.

SoCalAs Chuck Shepherd says: "You're still not cynical enough."

I talked to an Auburn grad before the "Championship" game, and he said he didn't care. He just wanted Auburn to win and then have a week to celebrate. After that, they could take away the title.

[BD80]

CBS is reporting that Pryor's career is over at OSU

[tommy]

CBS is reporting that Pryor's career is over at OSU

This is news?

[BD80]

This is news?

It was to the head coach

http://www.cbssports.com/#!/collegefootball/story/15209280/pryor-leaving-ohio-state-likely-to-go-into-supplemental-draft

Of course, now Pryor can refuse to cooperate with the NCAA investigation with no consequence to OSU

[Mike Corey]

As Chuck Shepherd says: "You're still not cynical enough."

I talked to an Auburn grad before the "Championship" game, and he said he didn't care. He just wanted Auburn to win and then have a week to celebrate. After that, they could take away the title.

Auburn's next in the NCAA's sights.

[AtlBluRew]

Auburn's next in the NCAA's sights.

I really hope so.

[Acymetric]

It was to the head coach

http://www.cbssports.com/#!/collegefootball/story/15209280/pryor-leaving-ohio-state-likely-to-go-into-supplemental-draft

Of course, now Pryor can refuse to cooperate with the NCAA investigation with no consequence to OSU

John Blake anyone?

[Mike Corey]

Dear lord, it just keeps getting worse.

Wait until the full story on Pryor's misdeeds comes out.

Shock and awe.

[SoCalDukeFan]

if the brain dead NCAA will reconsider their ridiculous policy of not suspending players for bowl games.

I also wonder who looks worse - Pryor, Ohio State, or the NCAA.

SoCal

[tommy]

It was to the head coach

http://www.cbssports.com/#!/collegefootball/story/15209280/pryor-leaving-ohio-state-likely-to-go-into-supplemental-draft

And you believe that . . . why??

[roywhite]

More problems involving Terrelle Pryor are coming to light.

Pryor leaves a paper trail for NCAA (http://www.sportsbybrooks.com/exclusive-ncaa-discovers-checks-to-pryor-29745)


In addition to Pryor’s past NCAA transgressions, today I confirmed that Ohio State was recently cited by NCAA enforcment officials for dozens of payments Pryor received in past years from a Columbus sports memorabilia dealer that are considered outside of NCAA rules.....

The NCAA violations were discovered when the name of the local memorabilia dealer, Dennis Talbott, was seen on checks Pryor was depositing in his personal bank account.

During Pryor’s time at Ohio State, Talbott paid him tens of thousands of dollars to sign Ohio State Buckeye memorabilia.

[CameronBornAndBred]

More problems involving Terrelle Pryor are coming to light.

Pryor leaves a paper trail for NCAA (http://www.sportsbybrooks.com/exclusive-ncaa-discovers-checks-to-pryor-29745)
During Pryor’s time at Ohio State, Talbott paid him tens of thousands of dollars to sign Ohio State Buckeye memorabilia.

So...are those items now worth more or less?

[JohnGalt]

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=6640219

...some interesting and - I can't believe I'm saying this - mature remarks from Mr. Clarett.

[MulletMan]

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=6640219

...some interesting and - I can't believe I'm saying this - mature remarks from Mr. Clarett.

Yep.... it amazing what happens when petulant teenagers have to experience real struggle. Mo has obviously owned up to his mistakes. However, I sincerely doubt that this part of the story will be picked up widely.

[Mike Corey]

The NCAA says it won't charge OSU with failing to properly monitor (http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2011/07/23/osu-dodges-a-bullet.html?sid=101) its football program.


The NCAA has not uncovered any new, unreported violations during its investigation of a player memorabilia-sales scandal and will not hammer Ohio State with its worst-possible findings of "loss of institutional control" or "failure to monitor," according to an NCAA document the university received Thursday and released yesterday.

"Considering the institution's rules education and monitoring efforts, the enforcement staff did not believe a failure-to-monitor charge was appropriate in this case," the NCAA informed Ohio State.

Furthermore, the NCAA fact-checked Sports Illustrated's story, and concluded that it was largely fictional.


The NCAA also reported that it investigated a Sports Illustrated report that identified nine additional players as selling OSU memorabilia to Columbus tattoo-parlor owner Edward Rife. The NCAA confirmed only one additional player as dealing with Rife, who soon will be sentenced on federal marijuana-trafficking charges.

[phaedrus]

Yep.... it amazing what happens when petulant teenagers have to experience real struggle.

If you are implying that Maurice Clarett hadn't experienced real struggle before he left Ohio State, I think you should think again. I can only speak for myself, but I hope to never face the struggles he has.

On Maurice Clarett:

"Something that takes this into consideration: He grew up with two brothers and 11 cousins in his grandmother's house in Youngstown, Ohio. His grandmother's house. Not Mom's, not Dad's. Thirteen kids under one roof, survival of the illest, with an older woman trying to hold it all together. According to ESPN reports, he ate "pork and beans for dinner, a couple of folded slices of bologna (no bread) for lunch." By the time he enrolled at Ohio State, he had attended the funerals of 10 of his friends, witnessed two people shot and killed in front of his grandmother's home, and served three stints in a local juvenile detention center."

(Bold added.)

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=jackson/060811