Rivers to Wear Number 0

[Bluedog]

according to TheDevilsDen...First to do so under Coach K. Cook is taking Nolan's #2, while Murphy is getting Kyle's former number, 12. Gbinije with the lucky 13 and MP3 going with 40.


Austin wanting 0 "it's a fresh start"

http://twitter.com/#!/TheDevilsDen

Sorry, couldn't find a previous thread this would fit in, so started a new one. I don't think I've seen these numbers mentioned on here at least. It was said a while back that Austin wanted 0.

So, if Kyle's number is taken already, does that mean he'd have to wait a minimum of four years to get it retired? That doesn't sound right. Maybe it just means Murph might have to change his number mid-career...Or is he allowed to finish it out if Kyle's number goes to the rafters?

[SCMatt33]

according to TheDevilsDen...First to do so under Coach K. Cook is taking Nolan's #2, while Murphy is getting Kyle's former number, 12. Gbinije with the lucky 13 and MP3 going with 40.



http://twitter.com/#!/TheDevilsDen

Sorry, couldn't find a previous thread this would fit in, so started a new one. I don't think I've seen these numbers mentioned on here at least. It was said a while back that Austin wanted 0.

So, if Kyle's number is taken already, does that mean he'd have to wait a minimum of four years to get it retired? That doesn't sound right. Maybe it just means Murph might have to change his number mid-career...Or is he allowed to finish it out if Kyle's number goes to the rafters?

If Murphy is taking 12, that's huge news. I don't think anyone has played for Coach K, not gotten his number retired immediately and had it retired later on. The only guys who had their numbers retired at a later date were Heyman and Mullins, who both played during a time when numbers weren't retired.

As for Rivers, it makes sense. If Coach K was going to alter his stance for Kyrie to take 1, I don't see why he would soften his position on 0 for Rivers.

[Jackson]

I think it is cool that Cook is wearing Nolan's #2, but...isn't #12 supposed to be gone? #0 for Austin is a good move for him. Who is the last Duke player to even wear # 40?

[MCFinARL]

according to TheDevilsDen...First to do so under Coach K. Cook is taking Nolan's #2, while Murphy is getting Kyle's former number, 12. Gbinije with the lucky 13 and MP3 going with 40.



http://twitter.com/#!/TheDevilsDen

Sorry, couldn't find a previous thread this would fit in, so started a new one. I don't think I've seen these numbers mentioned on here at least. It was said a while back that Austin wanted 0.

So, if Kyle's number is taken already, does that mean he'd have to wait a minimum of four years to get it retired? That doesn't sound right. Maybe it just means Murph might have to change his number mid-career...Or is he allowed to finish it out if Kyle's number goes to the rafters?

Interesting--it seems especially fitting that Cook will wear Smith's number as they are close friends, and I have read that Nolan has given Quinn a lot of mentoring/support since Quinn's dad died, as Quinn's dad and others (including Johnny Dawkins, of course) did for Nolan.

I don't know the answer to your question about jersey retirement, but I hope someone does--it's a very good question.

[Bluedog]

Who is the last Duke player to even wear # 40?

Griffin Tormey. Ross Perkins and Andy Borman before that.

[UrinalCake]

I hope I don't get blasted for saying this, but I don't think Kyle deserves to have his jersey retired. I'm as big a fan of his as any, and will always remember him as one of the toughest guys to play for Duke. He was an exceptional player for four years in an era when so many guys leave early, his name is on the list of many Duke records, and he'll always be a national champion. But there are only so many jerseys that can be retired, and if you were to ask if I consider him to be among the top, say, 15 guys to ever play for Duke, I would have to say no. I don't believe he was ever a National Player of the Year among any of the major awards, and you could argue that he was never even the best player on his team. Still love the guy.

[hurleyfor3]

This strikes me as a thread about nothing.


Griffin Tormey. Ross Perkins and Andy Borman before that.

Wow, my guess was Taymon Domzalski, who didn't even wear 40 the whole time.

[dukebsbll14]

Good news: my number 2 and number 12 jerseys I bought last year can still be worn. Yay for already having a Quinn and Alex jersey!
Bad news: Probably won't get see a jersey retirement happen in my years :(...eh I'll get over it.

The real question is, when will #0 jerseys be available in the Duke store?

[InSpades]

I don't believe he was ever a National Player of the Year among any of the major awards, and you could argue that he was never even the best player on his team.

You could also argue that he was the best player on every Duke team he ever played on (if you just look at careers). If you want to talk about who had the best season... then you could very easily argue that he had the best season 2 of his 4 years (Soph and Junior). I think the clearest was his sophomore year. I don't think Gerald did nearly as much as Kyle. Junior year it's pretty much a toss-up for me between Scheyer and Singler (with Nolan a close 3rd).

[OZZIE4DUKE]

What it means is that neither 2 nor 12 will be retired for Nolan nor Kyle. That debate is now over. A few years ago, when Mullin's jersey number was retired, I believe that it was being worn by either Abelnabi or Parks (CRS disease sucks), and they were allowed to continue to wear it for the rest of their career.

[NovaScotian]

yes yes yes! i love all of these choices! 40 is totally underused as ross and griffin never saw enough pt for my liking, and while it was cute for the wear twins to have symmetrical jersey numbers (34 and 43) i appreciate that the plumbers are going with three unrelated but strong jersey number choices, although this will be the second straight season without a 42. picking 12 shows onions especially since were talking about three of the greatest dukes of all time (kyle, jordan and coach steve). cook taking nolan's number is also a great testament to their relationship. the crown jewel here is obviously austin taking the big 0. personally i prefer 00, but i'll take this. baby doc is clearly trying to establish his own identity quickly. my only question: will the next top recruit duke lands ask for -1?

[hurleyfor3]

Cherokee wore #44 when it was retired for Mullins, and as I recall did continue to wear it. Abdelnaby had long since left and wore #30 anyway.

[Rich]

What it means is that neither 2 nor 12 will be retired for Nolan nor Kyle. That debate is now over. A few years ago, when Mullin's jersey number was retired, I believe that it was being worn by either Abelnabi or Parks (CRS disease sucks), and they were allowed to continue to wear it for the rest of their career.

That means that the 2010 Championship team will unlikely have a player with a retired jersey. So it would be the first Duke Men's NCAA bball championship team without at least one retired jersey. Interesting.

[sagegrouse]

Cherokee wore #44 when it was retired for Mullins, and as I recall did continue to wear it. Abdelnaby had long since left and wore #30 anyway.

Jeff's jersey was retired IIRC Cherokee's senior year. At his jersey ceremony, the personable Jeff said something like, "Cherokee still has a lot of playing to do in #44."

sagegrouse

[NovaScotian]

i forgot to give mad props to silent g for picking 13, another ballsy choice. although he we a fan favorite, lee melchionni never pulled 13 off to my satisfaction. it takes a true baller to 'make it work,' as tim gunn would say.

[OldPhiKap]

That means that the 2010 Championship team will unlikely have a player with a retired jersey. So it would be the first Duke Men's NCAA bball championship team without at least one retired jersey. Interesting.

Of course the team has a really nice banner hanging. Which in the end, was the beauty of the 2010 group.


I love Kyle, Nolan, Jon, Zoubs, Lance, and the rest -- they will always be special players for our program.


(Of course, if 'Dre, Miles or Mason get their jersey retired we would have someone from that team -- but I know what you mean).

[tommy]

picking 12 shows onions especially since were talking about three of the greatest dukes of all time (kyle, jordan and coach steve).

Jordan who?
And when talking about #12, you can't leave out David Henderson.

[OldPhiKap]

Jordan who?
And when talking about #12, you can't leave out David Henderson.

Not to hijack, but what's Hendu up to these days since leaving Delaware?

One of my all-time favorites.

[NovaScotian]

Jordan who?
And when talking about #12, you can't leave out David Henderson.

my b leaving out henderson. jordan is (of course) the younger davidson brother who switched to 41 his junior year to honor the memory of his older bro, noted summer league all star patrick.

[Lord Ash]

Ah, LOVE them! Love Quinn wearing Nolan's jersey... and Murph wearing Kyle's is fantastic. Honestly, I don't think that is necessarily the end of the idea of retiring Kyle's number at all. Oh, and #0? Nice:)

[loldevilz]

0 and 13! That is so awesome. I don't think I've been this amped about an incoming class in a long time.

[Devilsfan]

They should break the mold and make a jersey with all five starters numbers on it as it was truly a team effort that brough K his fourth banner.

[Bob Green]

And when talking about #12, you can't leave out David Henderson.

1976 Olympic Gold Medalist Tate Armstrong is another great #12.

[burnspbesq]

Probably won't get see a jersey retirement happen in my years :(...eh I'll get over it.

I wouldn't be quite so quick to draw that conclusion. Compare Chelsea Gray's freshman stats to Lindsey Harding's. And Chelsea has unlimited upside.

[Starter]

I think given the brotherly relationship Nolan and Cook seem to have had all this time, it's a wonderful touch that Cook is taking the baton. I believe Nolan recently said something on Twitter about bestowing the No. 2 on Cook.

I'm not saying I think they should or shouldn't -- I'm honestly indifferent, I think it can go either way -- but I wouldn't think such a symbolic and sensical move necessarily precludes Nolan's number from being retired, if that was the direction Krzyzewski wanted to go.

[RoyalBlue08]

I'm not sure how I feel about Kyle and/or Nolan having their numbers retired either (that is the more interesting part of this thread IMO), but I do think that it will be a long time before we have two kids that mean more over their careers to the Duke program. My first gut reaction to hearing their numbers being passed down is sadness....but then again no one has a better perspective on the program than K and so I support his decision assuming that is has been made.

[DevilWearsPrada]

1976 Olympic Gold Medalist Tate Armstrong is another great #12.


I was a youngster, and loved Tate Armstrong!!!

When will the number 0 jerseys be available in the Univ Store? They will be in big demand.

And if #2 and #12 are taken, does that mean that Nolan's or Kyle's jersey won't be retired to the rapters? Wouldn't that have been decided already? Kyle and Nolan, are two of the best Duke basketball players, who have each accomplished so much, along with their National Championship! Such a humble tandem, and always gracious to the fans with signing autographs and posing for pictures!

Looking forward to the new recruits!

[Olympic Fan]

I hope I don't get blasted for saying this, but I don't think Kyle deserves to have his jersey retired. I'm as big a fan of his as any, and will always remember him as one of the toughest guys to play for Duke. He was an exceptional player for four years in an era when so many guys leave early, his name is on the list of many Duke records, and he'll always be a national champion. But there are only so many jerseys that can be retired, and if you were to ask if I consider him to be among the top, say, 15 guys to ever play for Duke, I would have to say no. I don't believe he was ever a National Player of the Year among any of the major awards, and you could argue that he was never even the best player on his team. Still love the guy.

Not going to blast you, but I'm going to strongly disagree. The case for Kyle:

-- The No. 4 scorer in Duke history -- 8th in ACC history.
-- One of just 10 players in ACC history to finish with 2,000 points and 1,000 rebounds
-- Final Four MVP
-- ACC Tournament MVP (played on three ACC championship teams)
-- Started more victories than any player in college basketball history (and he wasn't just a supporting character -- he was a star all four years).

No, he was not a national player of the year ... but neither were Mullins, Gminski or Hurley. Grant and Shelden were merely defensive players of the year (but so were Wojo, King and Amaker, who were not retired). While Kyle was not honored for his defense, Coach K (who has the final say in these calls) called him the best defensive player in the country last year.

By the standards of the guys already hanging up there, Kyle is easily up there. He has a better case than Mullins, Gminski and Shelden ... probably better than Hurley.

I'd have a hard time not ranking him in the top 15 ... maybe top 10.

[NovaScotian]

And if #2 and #12 are taken, does that mean that Nolan's or Kyle's jersey won't be retired to the rapters?

toronto's only pick is at five, and i doubt that nolan or kyle would go that high, sorry.

[roywhite]

Not going to blast you, but I'm going to strongly disagree. The case for Kyle:

-- The No. 4 scorer in Duke history -- 8th in ACC history.
-- One of just 10 players in ACC history to finish with 2,000 points and 1,000 rebounds
-- Final Four MVP
-- ACC Tournament MVP (played on three ACC championship teams)
-- Started more victories than any player in college basketball history (and he wasn't just a supporting character -- he was a star all four years).

No, he was not a national player of the year ... but neither were Mullins, Gminski or Hurley. Grant and Shelden were merely defensive players of the year (but so were Wojo, King and Amaker, who were not retired). While Kyle was not honored for his defense, Coach K (who has the final say in these calls) called him the best defensive player in the country last year.

By the standards of the guys already hanging up there, Kyle is easily up there. He has a better case than Mullins, Gminski and Shelden ... probably better than Hurley.I'd have a hard time not ranking him in the top 15 ... maybe top 10.

In terms of consistency, grit, toughness....no doubt.

But in terms of greatness vs his peers nationally? Did Kyle ever achieve 1st or 2nd team All-America status? I'm pretty certain that Mullins, Gminski, Shelden, and Hurley did.

I would liken Kyle as a rafter candidate roughly equivalent to Mark Alarie or Shelden Williams. Which is to say, marginal.

I suppose it's good to have so many jersey numbers retired and to have discussions like this occasionally, but I'm not sure Kyle's number belongs in the rafters.

[rsvman]

I think the "eye test" would choose Kyle over Shelden Williams all day long. No disrespect to Shelden.

[UrinalCake]

He has a better case than Mullins, Gminski and Shelden ... probably better than Hurley.

First off, I don't think Shelden's jersey should have been retired. Again, great player, still the leading rebounder and blocker in Duke history, but one-dimensional and therefore not among the truly elite. I believe his postseason career consisted of a single Final Four appearance. Maybe I'm just stingy about retiring jerseys, but I see it as a rare event for the absolute best players of all time.

Secondly I have to strongly disagree that Kyle is more deserving than Hurley. Hurley is still the all-time NCAA career leader in assists and won two National Championships. He is synonymous with the concept of a Duke point guard.

As for Kyle, perhaps if his senior year had gone differently - let's say he at least replicated his numbers from the previous year and made it to the Final Four - then I might have a different opinion. As it stands, I guess we'll just have to disagree.

[Sir Stealth]

First off, I don't think Shelden's jersey should have been retired. Again, great player, still the leading rebounder and blocker in Duke history, but one-dimensional and therefore not among the truly elite. I believe his postseason career consisted of a single Final Four appearance. Maybe I'm just stingy about retiring jerseys, but I see it as a rare event for the absolute best players of all time.



I realize that these debates have been re-hashed over and over again, but what part of Shelden's game was one-dimensional? Was it the 1,928 points? The 1,262 rebounds (as you note, most in Duke history)? The 422 blocks (again, most in Duke history)? Not sure what dimension is lacking there, Shelden contributed plenty on offense.

[NSDukeFan]

First off, I don't think Shelden's jersey should have been retired. Again, great player, still the leading rebounder and blocker in Duke history, but one-dimensional and therefore not among the truly elite. I believe his postseason career consisted of a single Final Four appearance. Maybe I'm just stingy about retiring jerseys, but I see it as a rare event for the absolute best players of all time.
Would that one dimension be his rebounding (like you said, most ever at Duke), shot-blocking (like you said, most ever at Duke), his defensive ability (NDPOY), his efficient shooting (57.2% career FG%, at least 57.8% his last 3 years) or his scoring (increased every year up to 18.8 ppg as a senior)? The first team AA honor was also pretty good for a one-dimensional player.


Secondly I have to strongly disagree that Kyle is more deserving than Hurley. Hurley is still the all-time NCAA career leader in assists and won two National Championships. He is synonymous with the concept of a Duke point guard.

As for Kyle, perhaps if his senior year had gone differently - let's say he at least replicated his numbers from the previous year and made it to the Final Four - then I might have a different opinion. As it stands, I guess we'll just have to disagree.

I would have liked Kyle's senior year to have gone a bit differently (it would have been nice if he had avoided the shooting slump) and of course ended at a later date. I think you make some good points, but I think Kyle is synonymous with the concept of a Duke player and student athlete and I would love to see his jersey retired. That's more my opinion than any great disagreement with your points, though I think you may be underrating Shelden.

[DeBlueDevil]

I don't know about you guys but I love the Duke #13...it always reminds me of one of my fav blue devils of all time....Lee Melchionni!!! Played with such passion and effort. I'd take a guy like him on my roster every year!:cool:

I hope Mike Gbinije does work in that jersey!!

[PADukeMom]

I think given the brotherly relationship Nolan and Cook seem to have had all this time, it's a wonderful touch that Cook is taking the baton. I believe Nolan recently said something on Twitter about bestowing the No. 2 on Cook.

I'm not saying I think they should or shouldn't -- I'm honestly indifferent, I think it can go either way -- but I wouldn't think such a symbolic and sensical move necessarily precludes Nolan's number from being retired, if that was the direction Krzyzewski wanted to go.

This is going to kill me next season. Nolan will always be my #2. Now I really have to get my jersey ordered.

[AZLA]

I hope I don't get blasted for saying this, but I don't think Kyle deserves to have his jersey retired. I'm as big a fan of his as any, and will always remember him as one of the toughest guys to play for Duke. He was an exceptional player for four years in an era when so many guys leave early, his name is on the list of many Duke records, and he'll always be a national champion. But there are only so many jerseys that can be retired, and if you were to ask if I consider him to be among the top, say, 15 guys to ever play for Duke, I would have to say no. I don't believe he was ever a National Player of the Year among any of the major awards, and you could argue that he was never even the best player on his team. Still love the guy.

I don't think you should be blasted for this opinion. You make good points. And I'm one who has argued Singler and Smith should have their jerseys retired. After the way this season played out, I'm less inclined, but still believe they should have that honor. The outcome of this season and frankly the quality of play in the NCAA Tourney probably has a lot of people second guessing. But I still maintain that Singler and Smith, had they gone pro last year, probably would have garnered strong consideration. Once they decided on both returning as seniors together, it captured for me the meaning of team and what I believe Duke basketball aspires to. There's no stat for this. It's based on what Coach K and the organization decides. I personally believe it goes a long way. There's no way Singler and Smith are the strongest candidates, but I believe they just meet the qualifications. If in my mind they were strong candidates last season after winning the NC, then nothing has changed. I don't believe that anything happening this season should be based on what they didn't achieve, but what they did accomplish, which was a good winning season and an ACC Tourney Championship (and a NPOY candidate). No small feat. But, ultimately, it's how they positively lead and personified Duke basketball. My uninformed guess is that it's a toss up, but in the end, the coin will land in their favor with Coach K flipping it.

[Duke of Nashville]

Per twitter:

Austin Rivers has dubbed himself a new nickname for next year. Since he will be wearing Zero his nickname has become......Sub Zero. Ah....so many Mortal Kombat references...FINISH HIM!

[NovaScotian]

Per twitter:

Austin Rivers has dubbed himself a new nickname for next year. Since he will be wearing Zero his nickname has become......Sub Zero. Ah....so many Mortal Kombat references...FINISH HIM!

oh boy, i can't wait to watch him deliver a FATALITY to barnes' knees with his crossover.

[Duke of Nashville]

oh boy, i can't wait to watch him deliver a FATALITY to barnes' knees with his crossover.

Flawless Victory

[MCFinARL]

Per twitter:

Austin Rivers has dubbed himself a new nickname for next year. Since he will be wearing Zero his nickname has become......Sub Zero. Ah....so many Mortal Kombat references...FINISH HIM!

Hmmm, so does this mean he expects to be a sub? :D

[Huh?]

Per twitter:

Austin Rivers has dubbed himself a new nickname for next year. Since he will be wearing Zero his nickname has become......Sub Zero. Ah....so many Mortal Kombat references...FINISH HIM!

How is he going to tell people what his nickname will be?....I don't like it. Just get here and put in work, worry about the nickname later.

[anon]

Am I the only one who finds it a bummer that Coach K doesn't at least give our great-but-not-obviously-retirement-worthy players a moratorium on reuse of their jersey number, at least for a few years? I think we all, and perhaps even Coach himself, would be in a better position to judge whether Nolan and Kyle (and Jon, last year) are deserving of retirement with the benefit of a few years of thought.

If after 3 years, say, we decide that Kyle's jersey is worth retiring, at least we are sure we haven't had anyone else wearing it in the meantime. And if we decide the other way, just silently put #12 back into the pool of available numbers.

To me, the immediate reissuing of nos. 30, 2, and 12 make it seem like the choice not to retire those jerseys was an easy one, which I just can't believe is actually the case.

(And don't get me started on the issuing of nos. 1 and 0 ...)

[sagegrouse]

Am I the only one who finds it a bummer that Coach K doesn't at least give our great-but-not-obviously-retirement-worthy players a moratorium on reuse of their jersey number, at least for a few years? I think we all, and perhaps even Coach himself, would be in a better position to judge whether Nolan and Kyle (and Jon, last year) are deserving of retirement with the benefit of a few years of thought.

If after 3 years, say, we decide that Kyle's jersey is worth retiring, at least we are sure we haven't had anyone else wearing it in the meantime. And if we decide the other way, just silently put #12 back into the pool of available numbers.

To me, the immediate reissuing of nos. 30, 2, and 12 make it seem like the choice not to retire those jerseys was an easy one, which I just can't believe is actually the case.

(And don't get me started on the issuing of nos. 1 and 0 ...)

Nope -- I don't care. If it's not retired, then the jersey number is in play, as far as I am concerned. Besides, I suspect K lets the players choose their own numbers.

sagegrouse

[Olympic Fan]

How is he going to tell people what his nickname will be?....I don't like it. Just get here and put in work, worry about the nickname later.

Anybody ever read "The Great American Novel"?

Nickname Damur forever!

[anon]

Nope -- I don't care. If it's not retired, then the jersey number is in play, as far as I am concerned. Besides, I suspect K lets the players choose their own numbers.

sagegrouse

I agree, but surely Coach has the final say. Just off the top of my head, I don't think Austin would be allowed to wear number 32, for example. :) Anyway, I still think it would be nice, if #12 is indeed not to be retired for Kyle, for him to at least "own" it for a little while longer.

Anyway, at least we can all thank God we don't have the situation Carolina has created with its two tiers of retired numbers (which I believe partially overlap).

[sagegrouse]

I agree, but surely Coach has the final say. Just off the top of my head, I don't think Austin would be allowed to wear number 32, for example. :) Anyway, I still think it would be nice, if #12 is indeed not to be retired for Kyle, for him to at least "own" it for a little while longer.

Anyway, at least we can all thank God we don't have the situation Carolina has created with its two tiers of retired numbers (which I believe partially overlap).

I didn't complete my thought. If the players get to choose numbers, then it makes sense to have more numbers available rather than fewer. The retired numbers are "off limits," of course.

sagegrouse

[yancem]

I agree, but surely Coach has the final say. Just off the top of my head, I don't think Austin would be allowed to wear number 32, for example. :) Anyway, I still think it would be nice, if #12 is indeed not to be retired for Kyle, for him to at least "own" it for a little while longer.

Anyway, at least we can all thank God we don't have the situation Carolina has created with its two tiers of retired numbers (which I believe partially overlap).

You may not like unc's system but if Duke retires a few more numbers, they will have to institute something similar. There are only so many numbers to go around and some of the one remaining aren't very popular.

[johnb]

Retiring a jersey number doesn't mean the jersey makers are actually forbidden from using those numbers again. If we (somehow) recruit Kyrie Irvings every year, and half stick to graduation, and we retire 5 numbers per decade, we will run out of jerseys, and I'm sure we'd be ECSTATIC to start re-using jerseys somewhere about the time that Paulus has retired from coaching.

Having said that, I think that if there is serious debate about a retirement, then the person doesn't get it retired. People like Hill, Hurley, and JJ were obvious. I think Shelden was a close call, especially with their relative lack of NCAA success, but it's important to differentiate the team aspect of banners from the individual aspect of jersey retirements, and Shelden had awesome, national-caliber stats and honors. Both Nolan and Kyle seem like great guys and were obviously excellent players, but were either of them among the top dozen players of all time? I'd probably say no--as would NBA scouts (even allowing for the differences in the pro and college games, neither Kyle nor Nolan are locks to even be first round picks). Having said THAT, Coach has made a number of allusions to their being among the Duke greats, so if I were betting, I'd guess both will be retired at the end of the season.

[anon]

Retiring a jersey number doesn't mean the jersey makers are actually forbidden from using those numbers again. If we (somehow) recruit Kyrie Irvings every year, and half stick to graduation, and we retire 5 numbers per decade, we will run out of jerseys, and I'm sure we'd be ECSTATIC to start re-using jerseys somewhere about the time that Paulus has retired from coaching.

Having said that, I think that if there is serious debate about a retirement, then the person doesn't get it retired. People like Hill, Hurley, and JJ were obvious. I think Shelden was a close call, especially with their relative lack of NCAA success, but it's important to differentiate the team aspect of banners from the individual aspect of jersey retirements, and Shelden had awesome, national-caliber stats and honors. Both Nolan and Kyle seem like great guys and were obviously excellent players, but were either of them among the top dozen players of all time? I'd probably say no--as would NBA scouts (even allowing for the differences in the pro and college games, neither Kyle nor Nolan are locks to even be first round picks). Having said THAT, Coach has made a number of allusions to their being among the Duke greats, so if I were betting, I'd guess both will be retired at the end of the season.

While the numbers are being worn by active players? Awkward turtle.

[El_Diablo]

While the numbers are being worn by active players? Awkward turtle.

But not unprecedented turtle.

[msdukie]

Retiring a jersey number doesn't mean the jersey makers are actually forbidden from using those numbers again. If we (somehow) recruit Kyrie Irvings every year, and half stick to graduation, and we retire 5 numbers per decade, we will run out of jerseys, and I'm sure we'd be ECSTATIC to start re-using jerseys somewhere about the time that Paulus has retired from coaching.



No, retiring a jersey NUMBER means exactly that. It is forbidden from ever being used again. Jerseys will never be reused.

[wilko]

Lets get him a cape (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nvc2PPTlW7k)!

[darjum]

I understand the history and notion of players jerseys being retired. It is a very prestigious honor to be bestowed. There however is the opportunity that if River's wanted to wear #25, then it could be Duke's way of introducing a new generation of Duke fans to who Art Heyman was and the monumental career he had at Duke. Just a thought.

[El_Diablo]

I understand the history and notion of players jerseys being retired. It is a very prestigious honor to be bestowed. There however is the opportunity that if River's wanted to wear #25, then it could be Duke's way of introducing a new generation of Duke fans to who Art Heyman was and the monumental career he had at Duke. Just a thought.

I would wager that the NCAA will expand number usage to include digits 6 through 9 before Duke starts un-retiring jerseys. It would be a very easy rules change to make; referees would have to signal digits one at a time when calling fouls, but somehow it works in the NBA, so I think the NCAA refs could handle it. Including 6-9 would increase the number of available jerseys from 37 to 101.

And we'll all be long dead before Duke retires anything close to 101 jerseys.

[-jk]

I understand the history and notion of players jerseys being retired. It is a very prestigious honor to be bestowed. There however is the opportunity that if River's wanted to wear #25, then it could be Duke's way of introducing a new generation of Duke fans to who Art Heyman was and the monumental career he had at Duke. Just a thought.

I think that's the raison d'être for Duke's Hall of Fame.

-jk

[darjum]

I think that's the raison d'être for Duke's Hall of Fame.

-jk

Au contraire, shall we not introduce the exploits of a Duke légende via non traditionnelles methods...à la fin, je ne garde pas!

[devildeac]

I think that's the raison d'être for Duke's Hall of Fame.

-jk


I thought you might be referring to this raison d'être:

http://www.dogfish.com/brews-spirits/the-brews/year-round-brews/raison-detre.htm

http://www.dogfish.com/files/imagecache/bottleGridSize/raison-detre.png

http://crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/3.gif

[-jk]

I thought you might be referring to this raison d'être:

http://www.dogfish.com/brews-spirits/the-brews/year-round-brews/raison-detre.htm

http://www.dogfish.com/files/imagecache/bottleGridSize/raison-detre.png

http://crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/3.gif

A worthy thought (and now I'm thirsty!). But wrong thread. Heck, wrong board!

-jk

[oldnavy]

You may not like unc's system but if Duke retires a few more numbers, they will have to institute something similar. There are only so many numbers to go around and some of the one remaining aren't very popular.

I think the idea of "honored" jerseys is ok, but UNC has gone a little bit overboard with theirs (43??) I would like to see Duke come up with a way to honor the guys that fall just short of having their number retired by either displaying their name or jersey somewhere. Maybe in the concourse or on a banner in Cameron.

Just make sure that there is some vaild and fairly lofty criteria for such an honor. I would probably drop the MVP, MOP, olympic gold medal and second team All American criteria that UNC uses and go with National Player of the Year (including defensive POY), and 1st team All American as the primary criteria to have a number or player honored. This criteria would include Nolan and I am not sure who else that isn't already honored with their number retired.... may want to extend it to include ACC POY as well....

[94duke]

I think the idea of "honored" jerseys is ok, but UNC has gone a little bit overboard with theirs (43??) I would like to see Duke come up with a way to honor the guys that fall just short of having their number retired by either displaying their name or jersey somewhere. Maybe in the concourse or on a banner in Cameron.

Just make sure that there is some vaild and fairly lofty criteria for such an honor. I would probably drop the MVP, MOP, olympic gold medal and second team All American criteria that UNC uses and go with National Player of the Year (including defensive POY), and 1st team All American as the primary criteria to have a number or player honored. This criteria would include Nolan and I am not sure who else that isn't already honored with their number retired.... may want to extend it to include ACC POY as well....

This has been done since 2001. The Hall of Honor is in the main concourse.
http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=142295
http://dukeblueplanet.smugmug.com/keyword/hall%20of%20honor#300482862_CTuEf

[kong123]

Sub-zero or Black Falcon. Which is worse? The self appointed nickname or a nickname created by ESPN and then embraced?

[NovaScotian]

Sub-zero or Black Falcon. Which is worse? The self appointed nickname or a nickname created by ESPN and then embraced?

honestly, i think they're both pretty fantastic nicknames.

nova 'the negotiator' scotian

[Reddevil]

I like the number zero, and I like that he is having fun with with it, but - and I'm probably being @ retentive here, but if your number is zero, and your nickname is "sub zero", isn't that like having the number three and having "deuce" as a nickname? Negative numbers are not an option, but still zero is zero. I want to ignore this and just enjoy it, but it bugs me. I'll just refer to him as Austin Rivers.:rolleyes:

[Duvall]

Sub-zero or Black Falcon. Which is worse? The self appointed nickname or a nickname created by ESPN and then embraced?

The one that carries the additional hubris of an implicit comparision to one of the top players of all time.

[jipops]

Sub-zero or Black Falcon. Which is worse? The self appointed nickname or a nickname created by ESPN and then embraced?

Let's wait and see what Austin's medallion will look like.

[NovaScotian]

The one that carries the additional hubris of an implicit comparision to one of the top players of all time.

sorry, i'm not sure to what you're referring - are you saying austin is comparing himself to gilbert 'agent zero' arenas?

[RoyalBlue08]

sorry, i'm not sure to what you're referring - are you saying austin is comparing himself to gilbert 'agent zero' arenas?

I think he was referring to the Falcon comparing himself the the Mamba.

[anon]

Just make sure that there is some vaild and fairly lofty criteria for such an honor. I would probably drop the MVP, MOP, olympic gold medal and second team All American criteria that UNC uses and go with National Player of the Year (including defensive POY), and 1st team All American as the primary criteria to have a number or player honored. This criteria would include Nolan and I am not sure who else that isn't already honored with their number retired.... may want to extend it to include ACC POY as well....

Why must there be these criteria? The final decision is made by Krzyzewski, who has spent the better part of four years with these kids in highly emotional situations. I find it silly that he should have to base his choice on, essentially, the opinions of a bunch of sportswriters, some of whom have never met the kids.

[oldnavy]

This has been done since 2001. The Hall of Honor is in the main concourse.
http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=142295
http://dukeblueplanet.smugmug.com/keyword/hall%20of%20honor#300482862_CTuEf

Well there you go! That is my problem, I am always about a decade behind with these great ideas I have. You know what else I think might catch on is a social networking site on the computer where you can post things about yourself and reconnect with old friends!:D

[airowe]

Sub-zero or Black Falcon. Which is worse? The self appointed nickname or a nickname created by ESPN and then embraced?

Neither was self-appointed.

[kong123]

Neither was self-appointed.

Oh, his "friend" gave it to him? Ha, wonder if he came up with the name during a big brainstorming session with AR? This kid is way more arrogant than HB was and is. You can call it swagger, but we all know the kid is full of himself.

[jpfrizzle]

"Wearing number 0 next year! My nick name is going to be subzero! Cause of number and because my moves freeze people, got ice in my veins!!" ~Austin Rivers via Twitter

to clarify, Sub Zero means his moves will freeze opponents, and the fact he's going to wear the number 0. He likes the nickname and there's nothing we can do about it. haha :)

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/727648-duke-blue-devils-top-recruit-austin-rivers-call-me-subzero

"Don't mess with Sub Zero" ~Ro Shiell

[airowe]

Oh, his "friend" gave it to him? Ha, wonder if he came up with the name during a big brainstorming session with AR? This kid is way more arrogant than HB was and is. You can call it swagger, but we all know the kid is full of himself.

http://img2.moonbuggy.org/imgstore/are-you-mad-at-me-for-some-raisin.jpg

Yes, he said his friends gave it to him. Why is that so hard to believe? he may have said that was his nickname on twitter, but he certainly hasn't been wearing a shirt or necklace with that saying around it so let's chill on the rush to judgement, cool?

[roywhite]

"Wearing number 0 next year! My nick name is going to be subzero! Cause of number and because my moves freeze people, got ice in my veins!!" ~Austin Rivers via Twitter

to clarify, Sub Zero means his moves will freeze opponents, and the fact he's going to wear the number 0. He likes the nickname and there's nothing we can do about it. haha :)

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/727648-duke-blue-devils-top-recruit-austin-rivers-call-me-subzero

"Don't mess with Sub Zero" ~Ro Shiell

Yeah, it was just discussed on "Around the Horn"

If I recall, Jackie McMullen, Woody Paige, and Kevin Blackstone didn't like the nickname; Tim Cowlishaw was okay with it. Host Tony Reali didn't care for it, either.

My prediction: Duke players and coaches will toss it around during the Dubai/China trip and come up with something else.

[Duvall]

Oh, his "friend" gave it to him? Ha, wonder if he came up with the name during a big brainstorming session with AR? This kid is way more arrogant than HB was and is.

How soon we forget The Decision: First Class (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9n6-rnGK7w).

[kong123]

How soon we forget The Decision: First Class (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9n6-rnGK7w).

Hey, no one has forgotten that spectacle. But, you have to admit, if a hot shot UNC recruit would have tweeted his new nickname on tweeter, you would have had a field day. Fair is fair.

By the way, thanks for the link. I am enjoying it all over again!!!!

[NovaScotian]

Yeah, it was just discussed on "Around the Horn"

If I recall, Jackie McMullen, Woody Paige, and Kevin Blackstone didn't like the nickname; Tim Cowlishaw was okay with it. Host Tony Reali didn't care for it, either.

Well, if that bunch of clowns disapproves, it must be official.




My prediction: Duke players and coaches will toss it around during the Dubai/China trip and come up with something else.

Yes this will be a high priority along with settling on captains and fighting for a spot in the starting lineup.

[akhan786]

Hey, no one has forgotten that spectacle. But, you have to admit, if a hot shot UNC recruit would have tweeted his new nickname on tweeter, you would have had a field day. Fair is fair.

By the way, thanks for the link. I am enjoying it all over again!!!!

Um no. If a UNC recruit tweeted their nickname no one would've cared. The national media wouldn't have cared either.

I don't know if it's because he's going to Duke or if it's because his dad is Doc Rivers, Austin is getting way too scrutinized for stuff he's saying on a social network website.

He's a kid and just graduated high school. People are just jumping at the littlest of things to have unwarranted hate against this kid.

Rivers made a big choice in coming to Duke because he knew very well of all the eventual hate that was going to come his way.

If Rivers went to UNC and said the same tweet...no one would have cared.

[kong123]

Um no. If a UNC recruit tweeted their nickname no one would've cared. The national media wouldn't have cared either.

I don't know if it's because he's going to Duke or if it's because his dad is Doc Rivers, Austin is getting way too scrutinized for stuff he's saying on a social network website.

He's a kid and just graduated high school. People are just jumping at the littlest of things to have unwarranted hate against this kid.

Rivers made a big choice in coming to Duke because he knew very well of all the eventual hate that was going to come his way.

If Rivers went to UNC and said the same tweet...no one would have cared.

you are completely wrong. completely.

[BD80]

Sub-zero or Black Falcon. Which is worse? ...

Rhetorical question, right?

[akhan786]

you are completely wrong. completely.

Please explain. I love to be educated.

[akhan786]

If you think the only reason that AR tweeting his new nickname is news is ONLY because he is a Duke recruit is a bogus statement. If ANY other top recruit tweeted that his new nickname was "sub-zero" and the reason behind it, this information would be reported. Regardless of where the kid planned to attend college. It helps that he is Doc's son and it helps that he is going to a top school, but it isn't because he is SOLELY going to Duke.

I admit if he went to Carolina it would be mentioned, but not overblown like how it is with him now.

It would be "news" because it's a cool nickname but not be scrutinized and be discussed so much in venom.

He himself said it was just a funny nickname and didn't want to be called it:

@AustinRivers25 Austin Rivers
Lol please do not call me subzero lol it was just a fun nick name! Call me...hmmm austin! Thanks for the support tho, y'all true supporters.

It's been overblown you have to admit that.

[Acymetric]

you are completely wrong. completely.

I remember when you were a complete troll (who posed as a Duke fan) and then, after being exposed, you actually started posting interesting thoughts from time to time. I guess everything is cyclical.

I don't really have a problem with either nickname, although I do appreciate the danger of black falcon as it relates to Kobe. As far as I'm concerned, if he can play to back it up its fine.

[El_Diablo]

Harrison basically created his own nickname. When being given a tour of the ESPN studio and they were giving out nicknames, he requested an animal like "Black Cat" (Jordan, supposedly) and "Black Mamba" (Kobe). So it was not happenstance. Then the office assistant or janitor or whoever it was giving out the nickname came up with "Black Falcon." But it didn't catch on until he started promoting it on his own. And FWIW, they also made a nickname for Kyrie in the same manner: "Time" (because he can't be stopped). Kyrie, however, did not have a chain and a t-shirt made or broadcast it to the world until people started calling him that. He did wear a wristwatch though, so I guess kong might consider him arrogant. :rolleyes:

So it's really a stretch to say that "ESPN" created Harrison's nickname. A low-level office assistant or tour guide who was employed at ESPN (constrained by having to pick an animal and appending "Black" onto it) gave it to him in private after he gave him his guidelines, and Harrison publicized it on his own after the fact. It's actually very similar to what Austin did, only Austin apparently considered it idle chitchat concerning his number choice, whereas Harrison made a concerted effort to spend money promoting his lame nickname (see below).

http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lbxroet5lh1qcl760o1_500.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/U2dgc.png

[Reilly]

So in Harrison's world, he's "Black Falcon" (hence, the medallion and t-shirt) ... and in the real world, when they see him with the medallion and t-shirt, he goes by Dork?

Gets confusing ....

[oldnavy]

For the record, I think most all nicknames are silly. A good nickname should be spontaneous and not contrived. I think the nickname Black Falcon is very lame and Sub Zero is pretty weak too....

Rule of thumb, if you are involved in making up your own nickname, then you probably don't need a nickname....

[markbdevil]

I wonder how long it takes for a headline to appear 'Austin powers Duke over....'?
Yea baby!
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0118655/

[The Gordog]

I wonder how long it takes for a headline to appear 'Austin powers Duke over....'?
Yea baby!
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0118655/

5 months and 5 days.

[COYS]

In 2005 before Twitter and Facebook status updates took over the world, Austin would've been able to joke about a nickname like that amongst his friends and maybe even mention it to a few other people and no one would've ever known. Go back a year or two more and Barnes would've been able to wear his black falcon stuff without anyone outside of UNC really noticing or caring. It just so happens that we live in an age where all that stuff is immediately known around the world so we are able to try and read into things more than we probably should when it comes to understanding a kid's personality. That being said, since both Austin and Harrison made that stuff available for public consumption, any mocking by opposing fans is fair game.

[OldPhiKap]

So in Harrison's world, he's "Black Falcon" (hence, the medallion and t-shirt) ... and in the real world, when they see him with the medallion and t-shirt, he goes by Dork?

Gets confusing ....

I found him much more appealing in the Banana Suit, personally.

[HK Dukie]

So I assume this means no jersey retirement for Singler. Thoughts?

Personally, I wished he got it retired but I do understand why maybe not. He must have been real close though.

http://blogs.newsobserver.com/accnow/famous-faces-making-dukes-china-trip

[Highlander]

So I assume this means no jersey retirement for Singler. Thoughts?

Personally, I wished he got it retired but I do understand why maybe not. He must have been real close though.

http://blogs.newsobserver.com/accnow/famous-faces-making-dukes-china-trip

I think it's the right call. Singler had a great career, but jersey retirement is for NPOY (or NDPOY) level candidates, and Singler was always just under that cutoff. You could make the argument that he wasn't even the best player on his team for most of the time at Duke. It is close, but definitely debatable for his last 3 years.

Someone said it best when talking about Smith. If it's in any way debatable, then it should not be retired. Singler is definitely debatable, and reminds me a lot of Langdon.

[oldnavy]

I think it's the right call. Singler had a great career, but jersey retirement is for NPOY (or NDPOY) level candidates, and Singler was always just under that cutoff. You could make the argument that he wasn't even the best player on his team for most of the time at Duke. It is close, but definitely debatable for his last 3 years.

Someone said it best when talking about Smith. If it's in any way debatable, then it should not be retired. Singler is definitely debatable, and reminds me a lot of Langdon.

I love Kyle Singler, but I have to agree. He was really close but not exactly up to the level of jersey retirement. Kyle is one of my all time favorites as is Nolan, who I think has a better argument for jersey retirement but who still is just under the criteria.

[sagegrouse]

So I assume this means no jersey retirement for Singler. Thoughts?

Personally, I wished he got it retired but I do understand why maybe not. He must have been real close though.

http://blogs.newsobserver.com/accnow/famous-faces-making-dukes-china-trip

I wouldn't make your assumption. Murphy's choice of jersey probably has nothing to do with whether Kyle's jersey is "going to be" retired.

"Which jersey would you like, Alex?"

"What's available?"

"Everything but the jerseys used by other active players and those in the rafters."

"OK. I'll take number 12."

I mean, there is no such thing as semi-retired jerseys. If "#12 Kyle Singler" is retired, it will be retired for a long, long time. The fact that Murphy is wearing it this year or for several years is of no import.

sagegrouse

[ThePublisher]

Is it just me or is something wrong here? Alex wearing number 12 tells me that Singler's jersey can't be retired for at least 3/4 years. And what if Murphy has a phenomenal career at Duke and is deserving? Do you retire 12 with Singler/Murphy on it? No. This just seems wrong to me. Singler is definitely deserving of a jersey in the rafters and having a kid (who resembles him greatly btw) wearing his number isn't right.
The only other thing I can think of is that Murphy is planning to redshirt and Duke just had some extra number 12 jerseys left over, so they put Murphy on it in the meantime.... not likely.

[Bluedog]

Is it just me or is something wrong here? Alex wearing number 12 tells me that Singler's jersey can't be retired for at least 3/4 years. And what if Murphy has a phenomenal career at Duke and is deserving? Do you retire 12 with Singler/Murphy on it? No. This just seems wrong to me. Singler is definitely deserving of a jersey in the rafters and having a kid (who resembles him greatly btw) wearing his number isn't right.
The only other thing I can think of is that Murphy is planning to redshirt and Duke just had some extra number 12 jerseys left over, so they put Murphy on it in the meantime.... not likely.

This topic has been discussed in this thread since May:

http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?25528-Rivers-to-Wear-Number-0

If a number is retired, nobody can wear it. If it's not retired, anybody can wear it. I see absolutely nothing wrong with Murphy wearing 12 since the number 12 is not retired. Now if Kyle is deserving of a jersey retirement is a completely separate debate.

[msdukie]

I think it's the right call. Singler had a great career, but jersey retirement is for NPOY (or NDPOY) level candidates, and Singler was always just under that cutoff. You could make the argument that he wasn't even the best player on his team for most of the time at Duke. It is close, but definitely debatable for his last 3 years.

Someone said it best when talking about Smith. If it's in any way debatable, then it should not be retired. Singler is definitely debatable, and reminds me a lot of Langdon.

I love Shelden, but I'm pretty sure he would fall under the "debatable" category.

[CDu]

Is it just me or is something wrong here? Alex wearing number 12 tells me that Singler's jersey can't be retired for at least 3/4 years. And what if Murphy has a phenomenal career at Duke and is deserving? Do you retire 12 with Singler/Murphy on it? No. This just seems wrong to me. Singler is definitely deserving of a jersey in the rafters and having a kid (who resembles him greatly btw) wearing his number isn't right.
The only other thing I can think of is that Murphy is planning to redshirt and Duke just had some extra number 12 jerseys left over, so they put Murphy on it in the meantime.... not likely.

It's not yet retired, so it was available. Obviously if it gets retired, it will have Singler's (and not Murphy's) name on it. There's no reason they couldn't retire the jersey at the end of next year and ask Murphy to change his number. Jersey numbers aren't locked down for 3/4 years (people do occasionally change numbers).

Also, it doesn't sound like there's any intention of redshirting Murphy.

[msdukie]

I wouldn't make your assumption. Murphy's choice of jersey probably has nothing to do with whether Kyle's jersey is "going to be" retired.

"Which jersey would you like, Alex?"

"What's available?"

"Everything but the jerseys used by other active players and those in the rafters."

"OK. I'll take number 12."

I mean, there is no such thing as semi-retired jerseys. If "#12 Kyle Singler" is retired, it will be retired for a long, long time. The fact that Murphy is wearing it this year or for several years is of no import.

sagegrouse

If K is planning on or seriously considring retiring #12 or #2 this year, I doubt he would allow a player to pick the number. #4 and #23 were not issued for the 2006-2007 season, nor was #22 in the 2002-2003 season (or #10 for the women in the 2007-2008 season).

[CDu]

I love Shelden, but I'm pretty sure he would fall under the "debatable" category.

Yup. The "he wasn't ever the best player on his team" argument against jersey retirement is a pretty poor one. If that were a standard, the all-time NCAA assist leader wouldn't have his jersey retired (Laettner and Hill were better over Hurley's career). And one of Shelden Williams and Redick wouldn't be up there (likely Williams).

[Bob Green]

There is precedence for this situation with number 44. Cherokee Parks was wearing #44 when the number was retired in honor of Jeff Mullins.

[msdukie]

There is precedence for this situation with number 44. Cherokee Parks was wearing #44 when the number was retired in honor of Jeff Mullins.

Numbers were also being retroactively retired at that point because Eddie Cameron would not allow a number to be retired after Groat. Heyman's number was also retired retroactively and T. Hill had to change his number the following year. This is a different situation.

[gep]

I love Shelden, but I'm pretty sure he would fall under the "debatable" category.

Well... Shel was National Defensive Player of the Year in 2005 AND 2006, which, I think, may be enough to earn a retired jersey... regardless of "best player" on the team. And, to add to that, when he graduated, he held Duke's career blocks record, and single-season blocks record. I'm not sure he is really in the "debatable" category, given his accomplishments. But as Jay Bilas likes to say, reasonable minds can differ (or something like that). Maybe the one knock on Shel is that his teams never won a NC?

It's amazing that Shel and JJ graduated in 2006... seems like just last year. Time flies as you get older, I guess...

[VaDukie]

FWIW, I still take this as a sign that Singler's jersey is not getting retired. I think it should be but I doubt this would happen if K was planning on having it retired.

On another note - I'm hearing VERY good things about Murphy in practice (cue Allen Iverson joke). Should be a fun year. :)

[CDu]

Numbers were also being retroactively retired at that point because Eddie Cameron would not allow a number to be retired after Groat. Heyman's number was also retired retroactively and T. Hill had to change his number the following year. This is a different situation.

Different situation, but the point still stands. If the school decides to retire Singler's number next year (or later), Murphy would just have to change numbers. I doubt it would be a big deal.

That said, it doesn't make the strongest argument in favor of Singler's jersey being retired (at least not yet). If they felt strongly that they were going to retire his number this year, they probably would have encouraged Murphy to consider another number.

I feel like the #4 scorer in Duke history, with a Final Four MOP, national title, and multiple ACC honors, should find his way in eventually. We'll see though. Perhaps the bar is getting higher as the available numbers start getting fewer.

[ThePublisher]

Anyone know Murphy's high school or AAU number? If it's not 12, I'm shocked Duke has allowed this. It's almost disrespectful to one of the best to ever play Indoors.

[pfrduke]

Anyone know Murphy's high school or AAU number? If it's not 12, I'm shocked Duke has allowed this. It's almost disrespectful to one of the best to ever play Indoors.

The year after Scheyer left, Curry took his 30.
The year after Duhon left, Nelson took his 21.
Two years after Langdon left, Duhon took his 21.
The year after Nolan left, Cook has taken his 2.

If a number's not retired, it's fair game. There's nothing disrespectful about it.