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doctorhook
05-08-2011, 10:43 AM
http://gary-parrish.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/6271764/29151178

Interesting, hope Nate gets "promoted" to head of scouting or some other title. Nate has been extremely important.

hudlow
05-08-2011, 10:52 AM
http://gary-parrish.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/6271764/29151178

Interesting, hope Nate gets "promoted" to head of scouting or some other title. Nate has been extremely important.


Sounds good for Nate, he should be excited.

But I'm glad to see Jeff back.

OZZIE4DUKE
05-08-2011, 10:55 AM
That's... interesting. On so many levels. I hope it's a positive for all involved. What does Nate do now, and how does it affect Chris Carawell and his duties? Perhaps with growing families(?) one or both wanted to change their time or travel responsibilities? And will we now have three associate head coaches with the addition of Jeff?

In any case, welcome home Jeff! We're glad to have you back on the right shade of BLUE! :cool:

CLW
05-08-2011, 10:59 AM
The way the article reads it sounds like James is getting demoted. :confused:

Bay Area Duke Fan
05-08-2011, 11:01 AM
Sounds good for Nate, he should be excited.

But I'm glad to see Jeff back.

Why does being "reassigned" sound good for Nate? Could be a demotion. Let's see what Coach K announces.

superdave
05-08-2011, 11:04 AM
This is curious. I have thought Nate was a big reason for Duke's recruiting success the last several years, so I dont see how a reassignment could be any sort of demotion unless I am missing something. I could see Nate being director of recruiting or something of that sort.

That's a big staff...

Lord Ash
05-08-2011, 11:06 AM
Wow. I think that is a HUGE get. Absolutely huge. Love Jeff coming back. I am sure they will take care of Nate... he is a very important part of the program.

superdave
05-08-2011, 11:17 AM
Wow. I think that is a HUGE get. Absolutely huge. Love Jeff coming back. I am sure they will take care of Nate... he is a very important part of the program.

Capel is a huge asset. He has had a lot of success as a head coach and we have not had that sort of assistant for a while now. Who was the last one?

Perhaps he can both coach our big men and declare himself Coach K's successor to appease the worriers on the EK board! Could be a big week for speculative posting around here.

Mike Corey
05-08-2011, 11:19 AM
Welcome back to Duke, Coach Capel!

What a wonderful asset you will be, as Coach James has been and will continue to be.

NashvilleDevil
05-08-2011, 11:33 AM
Welcome back to Duke, Coach Capel!

What a wonderful asset you will be, as Coach James has been and will continue to be.

Is this a demotion for Nate? What of C-Well now?

jtelander
05-08-2011, 12:06 PM
Krzyzewski Announces Staff Changes: Capel Named Assistant Coach; James Tabbed Special Assistant

linky (http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=205148532)

DevilWearsPrada
05-08-2011, 12:10 PM
Is this a demotion for Nate? What of C-Well now?

That was my thought also! Nate was been very crucial in the recruiting aspect, as well as coaching, along with CWell.

So very pleased to have Capel back at Duke! That's so awesome! As Jeff will be able to work with the new kids over the summer, and travel to Dubai and China, also.

All of the staff, with the exception of Coach K, all have very young children. Most of the children, are under 3 years old. And with the addition of Coach Capel, the collective responsibility of coaching and recruiting (especially recruiting), will free up some Travel time, and give More Family Time with each of our Coaching Staff! Family time is so important!

Welcome Back Home, Coach Jeff Capel!!

SupaDave
05-08-2011, 12:18 PM
I'm shocked that everyone has jumped on the "what will Nate do now" issue. There are PLENTY of positions that Nate could fill.

But what surprises me is that noone has started the heir apparent talk. He's certainly been mentioned numerous times in other threads (and his own).

davekay1971
05-08-2011, 12:21 PM
Really surprised, and pleased, to have Jeff joining the staff. It's a great addition, with Jeff, Chris Carrawell, and Nate on staff we should continue to see good success recruiting in the near future.

Not to mention, we could almost suit up our assistant coaching staff and compete for a Natty...paging Christian Laettner...

Mike Corey
05-08-2011, 12:38 PM
This is only a demotion in title, IMO.

Coach James knows how valuable he is to the program, and how valued he is by the program; he is a team player, however, and I'd bet that he knows and embraces the chance to get better and have a better program with Coach Capel around.

MaxAMillion
05-08-2011, 12:47 PM
Is Nate still on the bench? This doesn't sound like a promotion to me. I hope he is ok with it.

Crazieguy
05-08-2011, 12:52 PM
According to this article (http://sports.chronicleblogs.com/2011/05/08/krzyzewski-hires-capel-as-new-assistant-coach/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+chronicleblogs%2Fsports+%28Th e+Chronicle%27s+Sports+Blog%29&utm_content=Google+Reader), Nate will be a special assistant with responsibilities that do not include on the court coaching.

-bdbd
05-08-2011, 01:05 PM
Capel is a huge asset. He has had a lot of success as a head coach and we have not had that sort of assistant for a while now. Who was the last one?

Perhaps he can both coach our big men and declare himself Coach K's successor to appease the worriers on the EK board! Could be a big week for speculative posting around here.

Come'on Dave! Everybody knows that former guards can't coach bigs... :rolleyes:

It is very hard to argue against the addition of such a great coaching talent with top-level HC experience. But there are a lot of to-be-determined implications from of this:

-- What will change for Nate? Obviously he won't have an on-court role at this point, at least not during games apparently. Doesn't the NCAA limit the number of official assistant coaches (for on-court and for recruiting) to three? From the PR:
Although his new role will not include on-court coaching, he will continue to assist the staff in developing game strategies, breaking down game film and planning practices and contributing in staff meetings..... "Nate has done a very good job with us as an assistant coach and he will continue to be a huge asset to our program in his new role," said Krzyzewski. "He has a bright future ahead of him and this opportunity will help him continue to grow and develop."
I don't see any mention of recruiting duties. :confused:
-- What is the impact for the succession story? Does this enhance Capel in the pecking order? Seems that it couldn't hurt.
-- What is the trickle-down/domino impact on Carrawell. Does this push Nate into some of CC's "turf?" Does he move down the pecking order in some ways? (I understand that he has been terrific for the program and don't want to see him get discouraged or, at least in perception, demoted.)
-- How does this impact the roles of Wojo and Collins? You certainly would expect that Capel can lend some added ability into what has been traditionally their space (example: great cred that he brings to the table with coaching bigs, after the Blake Griffin experience). BTW, who is now the bench coach for games in the (unlikely) event that K has to miss any game action?
-- How do recruiting roles change? Nate has been universally applauded for having a terrific recruiting impact. Capel will certainly help in that space, and I see him having good contacts in the MD, VA, NC space as well as the far-Midwest (OK, TX, MO, CO areas). I can hear the conversation already, "Uh, well, yes Mrs. Parker, I think your son has great potential, and in fact he reminds me a lot of of Blake Griffin who I developed for all of his NBA success. Here's how we developed Blake..."
-- Does this infer that someone may have something else in the works (another coaching gig coming elsewhere)??

Interesting stuff. But you gotta love the addition of a major, successful D1 Head Coach onto the staff. To say nothing of bringing home another Duke great, and a member of the family. Welcome home Jeff!
:D

Matches
05-08-2011, 01:41 PM
I'd expect this to be temporary as I suspect Jeff will obtain another head coaching job within the next year.

superdave
05-08-2011, 02:04 PM
I'd expect this to be temporary as I suspect Jeff will obtain another head coaching job within the next year.

I suspect you are right. Capel will be a head coach again before long.

loran16
05-08-2011, 02:06 PM
Not to be a negative Nancy (I like Coach Capel), but unless Nate told the coaching staff he wanted to take a step back, I'm kind of sad about this.

I thought Nate was doing a good job recruiting (though at least one of his recruits backed out) and liked when I saw him talking to the guys on the bench and on the floor. And as much as we joke about "big man coach" being Wojo, there is some use of having a real big guy on the assistant coaching staff.

yancem
05-08-2011, 02:06 PM
I have to wonder if this either a short term position for Capel or if it is a sign that either Collins or Wojo may be looking to move up to a head coaching position.

Mike Corey
05-08-2011, 02:10 PM
Coach James can still recruit. He can only do so from campus, however.

Coach James is excited about Coach Capel being aboard. This is a coup.

throatybeard
05-08-2011, 02:15 PM
So we've now got more guys on our coaching staff than there are guys on the set of an NFL pregame show. :eek:

Back to you, Suzy Kolber.

Mike Corey
05-08-2011, 02:22 PM
We just have to keep Joe Namath away from the sidelines.

Monmouth77
05-08-2011, 02:56 PM
Capel joining the staff (even if only until the right head coaching job materializes) is so great on so many levels, but the first thing that sprang to mind was Tony Parker's recruitment.

It just can't hurt to have Blake Griffin's coach on our side for this one.

throatybeard
05-08-2011, 03:11 PM
We just have to keep Joe Namath away from the sidelines.

Don't worry, the team isn't strug-gel-ling. That's when those mishaps occur.

ChicagoCrazy84
05-08-2011, 03:14 PM
Yes, any coach that can snag a Blake Griffin is a great get!

I think this is a win win for us. We get a great young coach in Jeff Capel and Nate James will still very much be a part of the development of this team and program.

Capel's firing from Oklahoma does not bother me very much, I don't know if it does for anyone else, but he got a raw deal a little bit. Not much talent on last year's squad after the Tommy Mason-Griffin debacle. Willie Warren didn't turn out to be the player everyone thought he'd be and it left Capel with not much to work with.

Mike Corey
05-08-2011, 03:38 PM
What of C-Well now?

Announcement forthcoming.

He's not leaving Duke.

OldPhiKap
05-08-2011, 03:40 PM
I'd expect this to be temporary as I suspect Jeff will obtain another head coaching job within the next year.

Yup. And how do you pass up his experience on the bench?

Nate will be fine. It's like when Kyrie came back -- someone's gonna lose some floor time, but at the end of the day we're all a team. Nate is an important part of the team and i am sure he will be great in whatever role he fills.

OldPhiKap
05-08-2011, 03:41 PM
I have to wonder if this either a short term position for Capel or if it is a sign that either Collins or Wojo may be looking to move up to a head coaching position.

Well, the Md position is open. . . .

4decadedukie
05-08-2011, 03:41 PM
I am very pleased for Jeff and for Duke. Further, I would highlight a few important (and I would assume obvious) facts:
a) Coach K is a GREAT leader
b) He unfilingly takes care of his people
c) Nate (and Chris) have ALWAYS provided the program and Duke with examplory contibutions
d) Coach K's Olympic responsibilities will increase during the next years
e) Coach Collins and Coach Wojo may opt for a head coaching position soon

Can we have too many individuals of this type on the staff?

MartyClark
05-08-2011, 03:57 PM
Is Nate still on the bench? This doesn't sound like a promotion to me. I hope he is ok with it.

Seriously, how is this not a demotion?

OldPhiKap
05-08-2011, 04:00 PM
Seriously, how is this not a demotion?

To me, a "demotion" is when you're not doing your job and you get sent down.

In this case, a former head coach, who is also a member of "the family" and is probably only here for a year, is adding some perspective to a great bench. Nate is shuffling over to make some room. If he looks at it positively, it is a chance to learn from yet another head coach who knows something about stepping out from K's shadow.

So I think "demotion" is the wrong way to look at it. This is a temporary reassignment which, long term, benefits everyone.

Mike Corey
05-08-2011, 04:10 PM
So I think "demotion" is the wrong way to look at it. This is a temporary reassignment which, long term, benefits everyone.

I think this is correct.

CrazyNotCrazie
05-08-2011, 04:21 PM
Unless there is another pending change to the staff, I feel like we are starting to flaunt the rules here a bit. I could be wrong, but I believe teams are allowed to have 3 assistants, and it is generally accepted practice to have a 4th "Director of Operations." We will now have 6 "assistants" - Collins, Wojo, Capel, Nate, Carrawell and Spatola. It's getting a bit ridiculous.

Mike Corey
05-08-2011, 04:36 PM
Unless there is another pending change to the staff, I feel like we are starting to flaunt the rules here a bit. I could be wrong, but I believe teams are allowed to have 3 assistants, and it is generally accepted practice to have a 4th "Director of Operations." We will now have 6 "assistants" - Collins, Wojo, Capel, Nate, Carrawell and Spatola. It's getting a bit ridiculous.

On the 2011-12 staff, only Collins, Wojo and Capel will be assistants. James and Spatola have other duties.

OZZIE4DUKE
05-08-2011, 04:42 PM
I think Nate wanted to get off the road/travel less (or not at all) for family reasons and Coach K found a way to accommodate his wishes. So this should not be looked at as a demotion in any way.

Mike Corey
05-08-2011, 04:45 PM
Remember, Jason Williams once called Nate James the "best teammate I've ever played with."

I suspect this move will succeed because of that trait in James.

wilson
05-08-2011, 04:53 PM
Remember, Jason Williams once called Nate James the "best teammate I've ever played with."

I suspect this move will succeed because of that trait in James.You mean the same Nate James who, as a fifth-year senior, shifted to the bench for the season finale in Chapel Hill so that Coach K could totally reshuffle the team's lineups strategy and help carry them to a championship?
Yeah, +1 to the above.

devildeac
05-08-2011, 04:53 PM
Unless there is another pending change to the staff, I feel like we are starting to flaunt the rules here a bit. I could be wrong, but I believe teams are allowed to have 3 assistants, and it is generally accepted practice to have a 4th "Director of Operations." We will now have 6 "assistants" - Collins, Wojo, Capel, Nate, Carrawell and Spatola. It's getting a bit ridiculous.

Nate will just have to return to his duties of being one of the best 6th men in Duke MBB history:D. No offense to the Crazies, of course;).

FireOgilvie
05-08-2011, 05:04 PM
On the 2011-12 staff, only Collins, Wojo and Capel will be assistants. James and Spatola have other duties.

...and Carrawell?

NovaScotian
05-08-2011, 05:06 PM
Coach James can still recruit. He can only do so from campus, however.

just so it's clear for those of us who aren't familiar with recruiting rules; are only coaches and assistant coaches allowed to recruit off campus? and is ther a cap limiting the number of coaches to four?

Mike Corey
05-08-2011, 05:10 PM
just so it's clear for those of us who aren't familiar with recruiting rules; are only coaches and assistant coaches allowed to recruit off campus? and is ther a cap limiting the number of coaches to four?

Correctamundo on the coaches/assistants being permitted to recruit off-campus; the cap on coaches I know has limitations that prevent more than three assistants; beyond that, I don't know what the rules are or how strictly they're enforced.

DevilWearsPrada
05-08-2011, 07:31 PM
I think Nate wanted to get off the road/travel less (or not at all) for family reasons and Coach K found a way to accommodate his wishes. So this should not be looked at as a demotion in any way.

Ozzie, remember at our last Blue Devil club meeting, Coach Nate James, talked about having more "DADDY DUTY" at home, with his actress/wife away on a gig. Either his mother or mother-in-law, at the home helping him with the child.

I agree with you OZZIE. A good way to accomodate a young growing family, and still have your job, just maybe in a different capacity, with less travel and time committments.

darjum
05-08-2011, 08:20 PM
It's really hard to imagine that going from being a D1 head coach in a major program in a Big 6 conference to being an assistant coach is a step up, but after the last two years Capel had to endure I'm sure it feels like a promotion to him!

In Steve Wojciechowski, Chris Collins and Jeff Capel you have three men capable of being head coaches at major D1 programs. Shortly after the season begins in earnest for 2011-12, Coach K will become the all time wins leader in mens D1 history. How can any recruit not look at that and say "wow"!

Coach K certainly has built a legacy of loyalty.

moonpie23
05-08-2011, 08:26 PM
It's really hard to imagine that going from being a D1 head coach in a major program in a Big 6 conference to being an assistant coach is a step up,

not really......it's pretty easy actually,,,

darjum
05-08-2011, 08:33 PM
not really......it's pretty easy actually,,,

Not a step up for his bank balance though :eek:

OZZIE4DUKE
05-08-2011, 08:47 PM
Not a step up for his bank balance though :eek:
If his pay is less than his settlement pay from Oklahoma, he probably gets to keep the difference from them, assuming he's getting an ongoing settlement/severance package from them. And I guarantee you he is well compensated in his position at Duke.

ACniner
05-08-2011, 08:50 PM
Yes, any coach that can snag a Blake Griffin is a great get!

I think this is a win win for us. We get a great young coach in Jeff Capel and Nate James will still very much be a part of the development of this team and program.

Capel's firing from Oklahoma does not bother me very much, I don't know if it does for anyone else, but he got a raw deal a little bit. Not much talent on last year's squad after the Tommy Mason-Griffin debacle. Willie Warren didn't turn out to be the player everyone thought he'd be and it left Capel with not much to work with.

Well lets not forget that his firing was also a result of the Tiny Gallon scandal where a financial planner gave him 3 grand. Turns out the financial planner was linked to one of Capel's assistants.

jhole
05-08-2011, 08:55 PM
The next Duke team is loaded with young talent, and adding Jeff along w/ Chris and Wojo will be a great windfall as the coaching staff has a lot of work ahead to figure where the pieces fit, and fashion them into a Duke team. Plus w/ the China / Dubai trip there will be extra time to work w/ the team early on so I see this as a huge development to help Duke be competitive at a high level sooner than later next season. I'm really starting to get excited about our prospects for next season, including against our baby blue rivals, and w/ the pressure all on the Tarheels it should be a fun year to be a Duke fan. I agree w/ the others who believe Capel's return will be short lived.

Duvall
05-08-2011, 09:34 PM
If his pay is less than his settlement pay from Oklahoma, he probably gets to keep the difference from them, assuming he's getting an ongoing settlement/severance package from them. And I guarantee you he is well compensated in his position at Duke.

Unless he has a contract like Paul Hewitt's, in which case he would get both. But I refuse to believe that two such contracts exist.

Acymetric
05-08-2011, 09:46 PM
Unless he has a contract like Paul Hewitt's, in which case he would get both. But I refuse to believe that two such contracts exist.

I'm still trying to accept the fact that there was even one!

HaveFunExpectToWin
05-08-2011, 09:47 PM
Yup. And how do you pass up his experience on the bench?

Nate will be fine. It's like when Kyrie came back -- someone's gonna lose some floor time, but at the end of the day we're all a team. Nate is an important part of the team and i am sure he will be great in whatever role he fills.

I think a closer analogy is when Duhon moved to the starting lineup and Nate came off the bench in 2001. :)

airowe
05-08-2011, 10:58 PM
Don't expect this to be a quick stopover for Coach Capel. I could see one or two of the other assistants leave before him.

airowe
05-08-2011, 11:04 PM
Unless there is another pending change to the staff, I feel like we are starting to flaunt the rules here a bit. I could be wrong, but I believe teams are allowed to have 3 assistants, and it is generally accepted practice to have a 4th "Director of Operations." We will now have 6 "assistants" - Collins, Wojo, Capel, Nate, Carrawell and Spatola. It's getting a bit ridiculous.

Mike addressed most of this, but Spatola is the Director of Operations. Wojo, Collins, and Capel are assistants, and Nate James is "special assistant". Think of Coach Badass' position as like Gene Keady's spot at St. John's.

Bringing Capel on will be a boon to our already stellar recruiting staff, especially our big man recruiting. Not to mention, Coach Capel brings with him years of experience as a college head coach. He's the only assistant with this experience.

MCFinARL
05-09-2011, 08:17 AM
Unless there is another pending change to the staff, I feel like we are starting to flaunt the rules here a bit. I could be wrong, but I believe teams are allowed to have 3 assistants, and it is generally accepted practice to have a 4th "Director of Operations." We will now have 6 "assistants" - Collins, Wojo, Capel, Nate, Carrawell and Spatola. It's getting a bit ridiculous.

I think you mean "flout" the rules. Sorry, can't help myself.

OldPhiKap
05-09-2011, 09:12 AM
Don't expect this to be a quick stopover for Coach Capel. I could see one or two of the other assistants leave before him.

Interesting, could be. Can you elaborate on your statement?

Skitzle
05-09-2011, 09:31 AM
Interesting, could be. Can you elaborate on your statement?

Just the hunch that Wojo or Collins is have been testing the head coaching waters recently and may be good candidates if the right opportunity opens up.

jtelander
05-09-2011, 09:32 AM
...and Carrawell?

what is the story with C'well?

Skitzle
05-09-2011, 09:35 AM
what is the story with C'well?

C'well kills men by the hundreds. I've heard, he shoots fireballs from his eyes, and bolts of lightning from his arse.

Or was that a Davidson?

killerleft
05-09-2011, 10:35 AM
Getting Jeff Capel and keeping Nate James is some of the best news I could have expected to see on a Monday morning (amazingly, I didn't log in to DBR yesterday). Win-win-win-win-win situation!:cool:

Welcome home, Jeff!

devildeac
05-09-2011, 10:57 AM
Sounds like great news to me. And remember:

Jeff was better: clap, clap, clap/clap/clap:D.

airowe
05-09-2011, 11:34 AM
Interesting, could be. Can you elaborate on your statement?

From what I can gather Coaches Wojo and Collins are much more likely to entertain head coaching offers than Coach Capel is.

I disagree with the notion that this will be a quick stopover for him.

PSurprise
05-09-2011, 11:44 AM
This may be a sign that either/both Wojo and Collin's time in Durham may be a bit short. Maybe they will decide to take a head coaching gig if a suitable situation arises in the next year (or before then even) or two.

BD80
05-09-2011, 12:25 PM
Unless he has a contract like Paul Hewitt's, in which case he would get both. But I refuse to believe that two such contracts exist.

Perhaps the issue only arises if JC gets another head-coaching gig, he could otherwise get full settlement.


I think you mean "flout" the rules. Sorry, can't help myself.

Maybe we flaunt them before we flout them. Or flaunt our flouting.

Maybe I should be flayed with a flute.

MCFinARL
05-09-2011, 12:33 PM
Perhaps the issue only arises if JC gets another head-coaching gig, he could otherwise get full settlement.



Maybe we flaunt them before we flout them. Or flaunt our flouting.

Maybe I should be flayed with a flute.

But should a flautist flat-out flaunt his/her flare for flouting etiquette by flaying you with a flute?

CharlestonDevil
05-09-2011, 12:38 PM
That just a few years ago Jeff was considered the Shaka Smart/Brad Stevens of his day. JC was an EXCELLENT young coach doing big things at VCU. Don't let the unfortunate events at OU overshadow the real talent that he has. Believe me (or if not me Coach K), JC would not get a position as a Duke assistant just because he is an alumn and needs a job. K just added a very dangerous recruiting and coaching tool to the already loaded Duke arsenal.

And although it has already been touched on, I too think JC's biggest impact could be on the recruiting front. I mean, any time you've got Blake Griffin on your resume that has to grab the interest of some PF/C recruits. And much like Nate Dogg I see JC as a young(ish) charismatic guy that could really connect with the Tony Parker's of the world...

killerleft
05-09-2011, 12:45 PM
But should a flautist flat-out flaunt his/her flare for flouting etiquette by flaying you with a flute?

Only if he/she has a flair for it:o

PumpkinFunk
05-09-2011, 12:50 PM
I'm hearing that C-well, because he's a graduate assistant, isn't allowed on the court at all, per some changing NCAA rules or just per rules that haven't necessarily been strictly enforced. As such, with the program not having assistant coaching opportunities looking like they'll open up, Coach K is trying to get him an assistant job elsewhere where he can be on the court.

As for the coaching situation: There's 3 assistants and a director of basketball operations on staff who are allowed on the court as coaches. That would be Capel, Collins, Wojo, and Spatola. Beyond that, the only people allowed on the court are athletic training staff and team managers. So Nate James is being "demoted" to off-the-court responsibilities, for whatever that's worth. It's a changing of responsibility from assistant to "special assistant" to off-court activities.

barjwr
05-09-2011, 01:14 PM
From the info in one of the links about Capel returning (the link to the article in The Oklahoman), it appears that the potential infractions at OU have little to do with him or the university. Their spin is that he will likely be "hire-able" as a head coach once the investigation is complete, and the most recent news doesn't seem to implicate Jeff or OU.

That said, I'd love nothing more than to see my classmate on the bench for years to come :D

AZLA
05-09-2011, 01:19 PM
This is good succession planning, literally -- great bench strength :). It was too good of an opportunity to pass on Capel. That's a big bird back in the nest which will push out Wojo or Collins to get out and fly on their own. It's now time.

CameronBornAndBred
05-09-2011, 01:47 PM
Playing Devil's advocate here...I keep reading about what a great get Capel is because of his recruiting ability. I can agree with that, but at the same time have to wonder. If Capel is not here for the long haul (and I doubt he is, regardless whether he is at Duke for one year or two) then what is his answer to the recruit that asks "If I come to Duke, will you be there"?
Also, JC is presumably going to be heavily involved in guys further down Duke's pipeline; what happens when he gets a job as a head coach again, do you think he will not take advantage of any relationships he has developed. If he does, I don't think I could blame him, it's a tough game to play and one that can be "win-at-all-costs".
Sure, Collins and Wojo could take the same track if they get a head job as well, but the only other guy on our bench besides K that has a proven record as a head coach is Jeff Capel. I would assume a recruit will be aware of that, as well as that he will probably be a head coach again soon.

jtelander
05-09-2011, 02:37 PM
I'm hearing that C-well, because he's a graduate assistant, isn't allowed on the court at all, per some changing NCAA rules or just per rules that haven't necessarily been strictly enforced. As such, with the program not having assistant coaching opportunities looking like they'll open up, Coach K is trying to get him an assistant job elsewhere where he can be on the court.

I've read that he will be working with the women's team.

MCFinARL
05-09-2011, 02:43 PM
Only if he/she has a flair for it:o

Yikes, I'm so embarrassed to be on the receiving end of a well-deserved "gotcha"! got to stop "thinking" (if that's what you'd call it) faster than I can type (or spell). :o

tgotdamp
05-09-2011, 03:11 PM
IDK about this move. We already had a staff full of Guards and Small Forwards. It would have made more sense to grab Laettner as we have no one to school our bigs. Capel nabbing Griffin doesn't necessarily mean he is the biggest reason to Blake's development. Our BIGS have lacked the necessary skill set during the 2000s. Only Boozer and Williams were cream of the crop talents. I think if we get a BIG MAN on the coaching staff, it will be a HUGE ASSET. Its virtually impossible to stop a team with talent inside and shooters on the wing that possess dribble drive capabilites. The 3s don't fall all the time and we need a backup option.

airowe
05-09-2011, 03:15 PM
IDK about this move. We already had a staff full of Guards and Small Forwards. It would have made more sense to grab Laettner as we have no one to school our bigs. Capel nabbing Griffin doesn't necessarily mean he is the biggest reason to Blake's development. Our BIGS have lacked the necessary skill set during the 2000s. Only Boozer and Williams were cream of the crop talents. I think if we get a BIG MAN on the coaching staff, it will be a HUGE ASSET. Its virtually impossible to stop a team with talent inside and shooters on the wing that possess dribble drive capabilites. The 3s don't fall all the time and we need a backup option.

Jeff Capel has a much better resume for developing bigs than Christian Laettner. Neither of them has a better resume than Steve Wojciechowski.

Mike Corey
05-09-2011, 03:39 PM
You think 16-year old post prospects care more about Christian Laettner or Coach Capel?

One they know as the guy from the March Madness clips who makes the shot over Kentucky; the other they know as the guy who sprung Blake Griffin to supermegasuperstardomness.

I love Christian Laettner; but Coach Capel has been a coach--a damn good one--and has a gift for recruiting. And teenagers know that.

Remember that Oklahoma landed about 5 four or five-star players in his tenure in the Big 12, and made the final five for Humble Harry.

CharlestonDevil
05-09-2011, 03:44 PM
Playing Devil's advocate here...I keep reading about what a great get Capel is because of his recruiting ability. I can agree with that, but at the same time have to wonder. If Capel is not here for the long haul (and I doubt he is, regardless whether he is at Duke for one year or two) then what is his answer to the recruit that asks "If I come to Duke, will you be there"?
Also, JC is presumably going to be heavily involved in guys further down Duke's pipeline; what happens when he gets a job as a head coach again, do you think he will not take advantage of any relationships he has developed. If he does, I don't think I could blame him, it's a tough game to play and one that can be "win-at-all-costs".
Sure, Collins and Wojo could take the same track if they get a head job as well, but the only other guy on our bench besides K that has a proven record as a head coach is Jeff Capel. I would assume a recruit will be aware of that, as well as that he will probably be a head coach again soon.

You are assuming that because he has been a head coach before that being an assistant at Duke will not be satisfactory enough to keep him around. WRONG. Coach K is not just "doing Jeff a favor because he fell on some hard luck and needs a temp job until he can find something else". K added him to the staff because he A) will be a great addition and B) wants to be there.

On top of this solid reasoning I can PROVE he will remain at Duke for several years.... Airowe said it. Boosh.

CameronBornAndBred
05-09-2011, 03:52 PM
You are assuming that because he has been a head coach before that being an assistant at Duke will not be satisfactory enough to keep him around. WRONG. Coach K is not just "doing Jeff a favor because he fell on some hard luck and needs a temp job until he can find something else". K added him to the staff because he A) will be a great addition and B) wants to be there.

On top of this solid reasoning I can PROVE he will remain at Duke for several years.... Airowe said it. Boosh.
Boosh? Airowe said it? Great arguments. (No offense to Airowe, but his, like mine, is an opinion.)
Yes, I am assuming. If I were Jeff Capel I sure as hell wouldn't want to stay at Duke longer than it takes me to get back to the head coaching ranks. But I don't think you even read my post, I'm not questioning his intentions (nor am I being negative about them). Never did I say K was doing anyone a favor. My post was about his recruiting. I am wondering what will go through a recruit's mind.

airowe
05-09-2011, 04:05 PM
Boosh? Airowe said it? Great arguments. (No offense to Airowe, but his, like mine, is an opinion.)
Yes, I am assuming. If I were Jeff Capel I sure as hell wouldn't want to stay at Duke longer than it takes me to get back to the head coaching ranks. But I don't think you even read my post, I'm not questioning his intentions (nor am I being negative about them). Never did I say K was doing anyone a favor. My post was about his recruiting. I am wondering what will go through a recruit's mind.

None taken ;)

As far as I can tell, the plan is for Capel to be here for a while, thus I don't believe your concerns about Capel not unpacking his bags so to speak will bear any fruit.

When Coach Capel's interview with David Glenn from earlier today gets posted online, I'll link it here. It should quell your uneasiness.

CameronBornAndBred
05-09-2011, 04:16 PM
None taken ;)

As far as I can tell, the plan is for Capel to be here for a while, thus I don't believe your concerns about Capel not unpacking his bags so to speak will bear any fruit.

When Coach Capel's interview with David Glenn from earlier today gets posted online, I'll link it here. It should quell your uneasiness.

Cool..looking forward to the link. If he does plan on staying, I hope that does mean (as others have wondered) that Wojo and/or Collins are both planning on making a leap soon. Not that being offered is something one can plan on, but since they both have been looked at I feel safe in assuming that one or both could pack their bags next year.

tgotdamp
05-09-2011, 04:48 PM
Jeff Capel has a much better resume for developing bigs than Christian Laettner. Neither of them has a better resume than Steve Wojciechowski.

Of course he does, Laettner hasn't had a chance to develop any bigs. Wojo developed Williams and Boozer. That's 2. Do I need to list the other talented BIG MEN that came through Duke and did not reach anywhere near their potential under Wojo. Off the top I can think of McRoberts, Shav and the Plumlees. The list goes on and on. This is DUKE, a 1-in-8 success rate just doesn't cut it.

Kedsy
05-09-2011, 04:55 PM
IDK about this move. We already had a staff full of Guards and Small Forwards. It would have made more sense to grab Laettner as we have no one to school our bigs. Capel nabbing Griffin doesn't necessarily mean he is the biggest reason to Blake's development. Our BIGS have lacked the necessary skill set during the 2000s. Only Boozer and Williams were cream of the crop talents. I think if we get a BIG MAN on the coaching staff, it will be a HUGE ASSET. Its virtually impossible to stop a team with talent inside and shooters on the wing that possess dribble drive capabilites. The 3s don't fall all the time and we need a backup option.

**heavy sigh**

tgotdamp
05-09-2011, 05:16 PM
You think 16-year old post prospects care more about Christian Laettner or Coach Capel?

One they know as the guy from the March Madness clips who makes the shot over Kentucky; the other they know as the guy who sprung Blake Griffin to supermegasuperstardomness.

I love Christian Laettner; but Coach Capel has been a coach--a damn good one--and has a gift for recruiting. And teenagers know that.

Remember that Oklahoma landed about 5 four or five-star players in his tenure in the Big 12, and made the final five for Humble Harry.

ARE YOU SERIOUS? I think you may want to check on Laettner before saying he is only remembered for a game winning shot especially if you are a Duke fan. I bet they know he was the team leader on 2 NCAA championships and if they are a student of the game, they know he went to the FINAL 4 in every year he played. I'll leave it there for now and let you do further research.

Everybody knows DUKE is a guard oriented offense. That has been our strength through the years and we've acquired and groomed top talent without Jeff.

We are lacking in our BIG MAN department. I think this is a NO-BRAINER in that players and people learn best from those they can relate to. Therefore, a BIG is going to learn best from another BIG who was once in his shoes. Jeff is a good coach but he never played the PF or C position and when your coaching players, they take that into account.

You are talking about recruiting which has not been a HUGE problem for us in the past years. Our BIG MEN have. No doubt in my mind, McRoberts and Mason would have developed better post play under Laettner as they have similar styles. Also, just because Capel was the head coach doesn't mean he is the primary reason for Blake's development. Take a look at Dwight Howard, it was Ewing, a BIG MAN, and not Van Gundy who elevated his game from pure raw talent. All in all, we have what Jeff brings the table but we clearly have a HUGE void for where we could use Laettner.

airowe
05-09-2011, 05:33 PM
We are lacking in our BIG MAN department. I think this is a NO-BRAINER in that players and people learn best from those they can relate to. Therefore, a BIG is going to learn best from another BIG who was once in his shoes. Jeff is a good coach but he never played the PF or C position and when your coaching players, they take that into account.

Just out of curiosity, who is the best big man coach of the last 30 years in your opinion?

airowe
05-09-2011, 06:02 PM
I haven't seen this posted yet, an interview with Dan Wiederer.

Part One (http://blogs.fayobserver.com/accbasketball/May-2011/One-on-one-with-new-Duke-assistant-coach-Jeff-Cape)

Part Two (http://blogs.fayobserver.com/accbasketball/May-2011/One-on-one-with-new-Duke-assistant-coach-Jeff--%281%29)

Newton_14
05-09-2011, 07:53 PM
I haven't seen this posted yet, an interview with Dan Wiederer.

Part One (http://blogs.fayobserver.com/accbasketball/May-2011/One-on-one-with-new-Duke-assistant-coach-Jeff-Cape)

Part Two (http://blogs.fayobserver.com/accbasketball/May-2011/One-on-one-with-new-Duke-assistant-coach-Jeff--%281%29)

Capel gave a very candid interview with Adam & Joe on 99 The Fan this afternoon. I just checked to see if Joe had linked it yet, but no luck. I will link that one as soon as it's available.

He was adamant that he is "unpacking his bags", and is not coming on to have one foot out the door as that would be unfair to the players, Duke, the fans, and most importantly, "My Coach". He praised "His Coach" numerous times.


He came home to NC the day after he was fired, and road over to Duke that Wednesday to "be with family". He watched practice and hung out with his boys Wojo and Collins. K called him into his office and offered him a "Gene Keady" type position.

At the Final Four they began discussing a bigger role. He stated he definitely wants to be a HC again down the road, but it will have to be the "right fit". He won't just take anything. But for now, he wants to focus on helping Duke get better and is in no hurry to leave.

Good stuff. This will make Duke a stronger program imo.

Newton_14
05-09-2011, 10:20 PM
ARE YOU SERIOUS? I think you may want to check on Laettner before saying he is only remembered for a game winning shot especially if you are a Duke fan. I bet they know he was the team leader on 2 NCAA championships and if they are a student of the game, they know he went to the FINAL 4 in every year he played. I'll leave it there for now and let you do further research.

I am fairly certain Mike Corey is well aware of Christian Laettner's career and accomplishments, and really doubt he needs to perform "further research".

Wojo is the coach of the bigs, and will continue to do so. Adding Capel to the fold only serves to make an outstanding coaching staff that much better. Pete Newell is widely considered the best big man coach of all time. He somehow managed to earn that title despite never playing center or forward, yet he taught a few guys named, Walton, Olajuwon, and O'Neal, just to name a few.

verga
05-09-2011, 10:42 PM
include The Deano, his sidekick Mr. Guthridge (these two slightly built young men had Mitch Kupchak (GM of the Lakers), Brad Daugherty (#1 pick in the NBA draft), Rusty Clark, Bob McAdoo, James Worth, Sam Perkins, Joe Wolf, Rasheed Wallace, Eric Montross, J.R Reid there are others but i'm tired of praising carolina players just to show someone that you don't have to be BIG to coach BIGS.

NovaScotian
05-09-2011, 10:57 PM
include The Deano, his sidekick Mr. Guthridge (these two slightly built young men had Mitch Kupchak (GM of the Lakers), Brad Daugherty (#1 pick in the NBA draft), Rusty Clark, Bob McAdoo, James Worth, Sam Perkins, Joe Wolf, Rasheed Wallace, Eric Montross, J.R Reid there are others but i'm tired of praising carolina players just to show someone that you don't have to be BIG to coach BIGS.

but...but... but wojo isn't even six feet tall! have you seen him talking to those guys? how can they hear him from such heights?

ArkieDukie
05-09-2011, 11:35 PM
I'm hearing that C-well, because he's a graduate assistant, isn't allowed on the court at all, per some changing NCAA rules or just per rules that haven't necessarily been strictly enforced. As such, with the program not having assistant coaching opportunities looking like they'll open up, Coach K is trying to get him an assistant job elsewhere where he can be on the court.

As for the coaching situation: There's 3 assistants and a director of basketball operations on staff who are allowed on the court as coaches. That would be Capel, Collins, Wojo, and Spatola. Beyond that, the only people allowed on the court are athletic training staff and team managers. So Nate James is being "demoted" to off-the-court responsibilities, for whatever that's worth. It's a changing of responsibility from assistant to "special assistant" to off-court activities.

One of the local sportswriters suggested that the new Mizzou coach (Haith) should hire C-well as an assistant in order to gain a foothold in recruiting in St. Louis. Remember that C-well is a native St. Louisan. Wonder if that is an option. Anyone know if Haith's staff is full?

loldevilz
05-10-2011, 08:17 AM
but...but... but wojo isn't even six feet tall! have you seen him talking to those guys? how can they hear him from such heights?

I think a lot of people just flat out don't think he's a good coach (both Duke fans and non-Duke fans)

BD80
05-10-2011, 08:32 AM
I think a lot of people just flat out don't think he's a good coach (both Duke fans and non-Duke fans)

A lot of people are idiots.

moonpie23
05-10-2011, 08:36 AM
I think a lot of people just flat out don't think he's a good coach (both Duke fans and non-Duke fans)

by that, one might get the idea that coach K is such a poor judge of coaching, that he would still have wojo on the staff...

RockyMtDevil
05-10-2011, 08:48 AM
I am sure Jeff will unpack his bags and invest totally in the position, but you are stupid if you believe a head coach at his age and stage would want to submit himself to a third string position on the bench as an assistant for long.

DukeUsul
05-10-2011, 08:59 AM
I am sure Jeff will unpack his bags and invest totally in the position, but you are stupid if you believe a head coach at his age and stage would want to submit himself to a third string position on the bench as an assistant for long.

Unless he expects the two guys next to him to leave to take their own gigs soon and if he stays around for 5-10 years that he'd be a shoo-in for the best coaching job in the world. It may not go down that way, but if I'm JCIII that thought has to be going through my mind.

killerleft
05-10-2011, 09:01 AM
Of course he does, Laettner hasn't had a chance to develop any bigs. Wojo developed Williams and Boozer. That's 2. Do I need to list the other talented BIG MEN that came through Duke and did not reach anywhere near their potential under Wojo. Off the top I can think of McRoberts, Shav and the Plumlees. The list goes on and on. This is DUKE, a 1-in-8 success rate just doesn't cut it.

I wonder if 4 national championships cut it? Are you serious? Duke doesn't cut it? Who in the wide world of sports DOES cut it? Please, please name the big-man coach that produces winners with the aplomb of Coach K and his sorry band of big-man coaches? Ditto for ACC titles and NCAA regional titles.

I'll take what we've had, thank you very much. Could it be that having great assistants, no matter how tall they are, is more important than having "big-man" coaches?

Sorry, but your "doesn't cut it" phrase almost made me sploof coffee outta my nose.

OZZIE4DUKE
05-10-2011, 09:02 AM
I am sure Jeff will unpack his bags and invest totally in the position, but you are stupid if you believe a head coach at his age and stage would want to submit himself to a third string position on the bench as an assistant for long.
If you equate his longevity and investment with next year's team at Duke, and I mean that in the most POSITIVE way possible, with that of Kyrie Irving this past year, in that he may only stay one year but could stay longer, and will be 100% focused on what he's doing HERE for as long as he is here, and that Coach K will help him and advise him get to wherever he may go next, I'll buy into that. Sorry for the run on sentence. :cool:

airowe
05-10-2011, 09:17 AM
I am sure Jeff will unpack his bags and invest totally in the position, but you are stupid if you believe a head coach at his age and stage would want to submit himself to a third string position on the bench as an assistant for long.

Capel said in an interview yesterday with Adam Gold and Joe Ovies that he's different. That he's been a head coach before (for 9 years) so he's not looking to move on for just any head coaching position. He also said that he wouldn't be an assistant coach for anyone other than Coach K and that he could see himself at Duke for a long time. His family is here (from Fayetteville), his wife's family is here (from Raleigh) and he's "home".

So no, I don't think I'm stupid to believe Coach Capel will be at Duke for more than a couple of years.

Devilsfan
05-10-2011, 10:37 AM
Great news for the mens apparel industry in the triangle. Unless they get the $1000+ suits from NYC designers like K wears so nicely.

wilson
05-10-2011, 10:48 AM
Great news for the mens apparel industry in the triangle. Unless they get the $1000+ suits from NYC designers like K wears so nicely.Maybe he can give a few pointers to a couple of his new colleagues. The last couple of games I've been to, Chris Collins has looked like he borrowed his big brother's suit. Get the man a tailor.

flyingdutchdevil
05-10-2011, 11:05 AM
Maybe he can give a few pointers to a couple of his new colleagues. The last couple of games I've been to, Chris Collins has looked like he borrowed his big brother's suit. Get the man a tailor.

Agreed on Collins. Wojo is slightly better and can use a little tailoring at well. Nate James wears his suit very well. Fits him great.

Mike Corey
05-10-2011, 11:25 AM
ARE YOU SERIOUS? I think you may want to check on Laettner before saying he is only remembered for a game winning shot especially if you are a Duke fan. I bet they know he was the team leader on 2 NCAA championships and if they are a student of the game, they know he went to the FINAL 4 in every year he played. I'll leave it there for now and let you do further research.

Everybody knows DUKE is a guard oriented offense. That has been our strength through the years and we've acquired and groomed top talent without Jeff.

We are lacking in our BIG MAN department. I think this is a NO-BRAINER in that players and people learn best from those they can relate to. Therefore, a BIG is going to learn best from another BIG who was once in his shoes. Jeff is a good coach but he never played the PF or C position and when your coaching players, they take that into account.

You are talking about recruiting which has not been a HUGE problem for us in the past years. Our BIG MEN have. No doubt in my mind, McRoberts and Mason would have developed better post play under Laettner as they have similar styles. Also, just because Capel was the head coach doesn't mean he is the primary reason for Blake's development. Take a look at Dwight Howard, it was Ewing, a BIG MAN, and not Van Gundy who elevated his game from pure raw talent. All in all, we have what Jeff brings the table but we clearly have a HUGE void for where we could use Laettner.

1) Teenagers today were born after Laettner was amassing one of the greatest careers in NCAA history. Most don't know their history with regard to college basketball. Most have only been exposed to Laettner through that clip. These aren't controversial statements.

Coach Capel carries more cache now than Laettner does. That's not a controversial statement either.

2) Coach Capel recruited and developed a stud big man. In recruiting, appearances are important. Whether or not Capel was in fact the primary reason for Blake's success, Capel can go into living rooms and tell families, "I'm responsible for his development in college; I still speak with him regularly today," etc., etc. Griffin is THE guy right now that everyone wants to be.

Not Laettner.

3) As to Laettner's ability to coach up big men, I've no doubt that he has all sorts of knowledge and expertise to share. When Coach K sees fit for Laettner to join the staff, I'll be thrilled. But just because Laettner's tall and was a great college player doesn't mean he has an advantage over Capel in the big man recruiting department, or in big man development.

loldevilz
05-10-2011, 12:21 PM
I wonder if 4 national championships cut it? Are you serious? Duke doesn't cut it? Who in the wide world of sports DOES cut it? Please, please name the big-man coach that produces winners with the aplomb of Coach K and his sorry band of big-man coaches? Ditto for ACC titles and NCAA regional titles.

I'll take what we've had, thank you very much. Could it be that having great assistants, no matter how tall they are, is more important than having "big-man" coaches?

Sorry, but your "doesn't cut it" phrase almost made me sploof coffee outta my nose.

Seriously, way to change the subject. The question is whether or not Wojo is a good big man coach. No one is attacking Coach K or Collins or any of the others who obviously do a great job.

Personally, I am on the fence about it. Its really hard not to be disappointed at the development of Mason Plumlee and Ryan Kelly. They are two top 10 recruits that really were very mediocre college players last year. And they were completely embarrassed against tougher teams like VT and Arizona.

I don't know the names of any big man coaches, but you only need to look down the road at UNC to see a team that has developed their big men. Zeller and Henson turned into pretty nice players last year and are arguable less talented than Ryan Kelly and Mason Plumlee.

nocilla
05-10-2011, 12:52 PM
Seriously, way to change the subject. The question is whether or not Wojo is a good big man coach. No one is attacking Coach K or Collins or any of the others who obviously do a great job.

Personally, I am on the fence about it. Its really hard not to be disappointed at the development of Mason Plumlee and Ryan Kelly. They are two top 10 recruits that really were very mediocre college players last year. And they were completely embarrassed against tougher teams like VT and Arizona.

I don't know the names of any big man coaches, but you only need to look down the road at UNC to see a team that has developed their big men. Zeller and Henson turned into pretty nice players last year and are arguable less talented than Ryan Kelly and Mason Plumlee.

This has been over numerous times but, Mason's sophomore numbers are very similar to Zeller's sophomore numbers. (Zeller 9.3 ppg, 4.6 reb, .9 blk; Mason 7.2 ppg, 8.4 reb, 1.7 blk) Ryan Kelly won the McD's 3pt shootout and was not expected to be a dominant post presence.

killerleft
05-10-2011, 01:09 PM
Seriously, way to change the subject. The question is whether or not Wojo is a good big man coach. No one is attacking Coach K or Collins or any of the others who obviously do a great job.

Personally, I am on the fence about it. Its really hard not to be disappointed at the development of Mason Plumlee and Ryan Kelly. They are two top 10 recruits that really were very mediocre college players last year. And they were completely embarrassed against tougher teams like VT and Arizona.

I don't know the names of any big man coaches, but you only need to look down the road at UNC to see a team that has developed their big men. Zeller and Henson turned into pretty nice players last year and are arguable less talented than Ryan Kelly and Mason Plumlee.

Seriously, I am talking results and not opinions. When you can say that Henson (or Zeller, even) may not be as physically talented as Kelly and Plumlee, you have seriously jeopardized your inclusion in an intelligent discussion of big men. Henson is one of the more talented and freakishly athletic big men to ever play in the ACC. Think Ralph Sampson with enough sense to play inside and not be a point guard.

I may have changed the subject slightly. But I find it humorous that Duke, with all the titles I mentioned, would be on a list of teams with poor coaches no matter what position players we discuss.

Players do not develop along some linear schedule you or I may wish they did. Our Plumlees and Kelly may certainly be better than Zeller before all is said and done.

The Gordog
05-10-2011, 01:30 PM
Seriously, way to change the subject. The question is whether or not Wojo is a good big man coach. No one is attacking Coach K or Collins or any of the others who obviously do a great job.

Personally, I am on the fence about it. Its really hard not to be disappointed at the development of Mason Plumlee and Ryan Kelly. They are two top 10 recruits that really were very mediocre college players last year. And they were completely embarrassed against tougher teams like VT and Arizona.

I don't know the names of any big man coaches, but you only need to look down the road at UNC to see a team that has developed their big men. Zeller and Henson turned into pretty nice players last year and are arguable less talented than Ryan Kelly and Mason Plumlee.

That's funny. The last time they played, our front line flat out spanked the front line of our esteemed fellow scholars down the road!

4decadedukie
05-10-2011, 01:41 PM
Its really hard not to be disappointed at the development of Mason Plumlee and Ryan Kelly. They are two top 10 recruits that really were very mediocre college players last year. And they were completely embarrassed against tougher teams like VT and Arizona.

With respect, I invite your attention to the fact that many individuals felt just this way about Brian Zoubek, until -- of course -- Zoubs was absolutely instrumental in our recent National Championship. Further, Wojo was clearly his principal coach and mentor. I am always amazed at the "expertise" of some DBR members, in comparison to those who have only spent a lifetime playing for, leading, recruiting for, and coaching what certainly is Division I's premier Men's Basketball program throughout the last generation (really from the mid/late-1980s).

loldevilz
05-10-2011, 02:22 PM
That's funny. The last time they played, our front line flat out spanked the front line of our esteemed fellow scholars down the road!

spanked? dude you have got to be kidding me? here are the stat totals from the 3 games. I'm sure you will find some way to explain how Ryan and Mason thoroughly dominated Zeller and Henson.

1st Duke-UNC game

Zeller-24 points 13 rebounds
Henson- 14 points 12 rebounds

Mason-2 points 8 rebounds
Kelley-4 points 7 rebounds

2nd Duke-UNC game

Zeller 14 points 5 rebounds
Henson 10 points 12 rebounds

Mason 0 points 9 rebounds
Kelly 2 points 2 rebounds

3rd Duke-UNC game

Zeller 14 points 4 rebounds
Henson 10 points 18 rebounds

Mason 6 points 5 rebounds
Kelly 9 points 3 rebounds

DukeGirl4ever
05-10-2011, 02:46 PM
Players do not develop along some linear schedule you or I may wish they did. Our Plumlees and Kelly may certainly be better than Zeller before all is said and done.

This is very true. I have read on this board, people making comments about a player's (or a team's) "ceiling". Having witnessed this first hand, some kids actually reach their "ceiling" or their potential during their high school days, and then people get frustrated when they don't improve in college. Sure, there are minor adjustments and improvements one can make, but sometimes "the limit is the limit". The problem with potential is you never know when a kid is tapped out.

I personally think Ryan Kelly made great improvements from last year to this year. His body was remade, and I think next year we will see an even bigger improvement once he knows how to handle his body. But again, potential is hard to define, so it's all just a guessing game.

ikiru36
05-10-2011, 04:42 PM
It's hard for me to believe someone would lament our bringing in another Guard as an Assistant Coach (due to some misperception that a coach's height determines their ability to coach bigs...ahem-Pete Newell), when that guard happens to be able to say "I recruited and provided the college development of a certain Blake Griffin."
Hard to imagine any other big man (perhaps this side of Dwight Howard if you're a pure Center) that this current generation is gonna be idolizing more for the next few years.

Welcome home Jeff!!!!!!!!! Go Duke!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Go Blue Devils!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OldPhiKap
05-10-2011, 04:47 PM
Little known fact: although Pete Newell was only 6' 2", when measured by cinder blocks he was estimated to be about 6' 10".

airowe
05-10-2011, 05:06 PM
Great read here on the hire of Coach of Capel.

Adam Gold on Capel (http://www.wralsportsfan.com/voices/blogpost/9574052/)

Of particular note,
And, the notion that he’s got one eye on the next job doesn’t fly either. “I’m not coming here with one foot out the door. I’m unpacking my bags and I could be here for a very long time.”

wilko
05-10-2011, 05:27 PM
Open letter to Jeff Capel

Hey Jeff! welcome home!!! I for one am glad to see you as part Duke staff.
But I have to be completely honest about something.

I owe you an apology.
Let it suffice to say back in 95 I wasn't your biggest fan. I was a lot younger then, and I am equally fortunate that I didn't have access to an internet forum or twitter device to stick my foot in my mouth for all to see. I was far away from the epicenter. I doubt you were the slightest bit aware of me. But there were others closer and much more vocal. I'm sure you heard the noise, felt the heat and remember it all.

Age and hopefully wisdom has taught me that I was in the wrong for the way I felt back then. Sorry.

I'll choose to take your return as a sign of forgiveness for my (our) impetuous remarks and actions. I am equally glad you have grown and gotten past all that and can return home!

Welcome and much success

Duvall
05-10-2011, 06:03 PM
spanked? dude you have got to be kidding me? here are the stat totals from the 3 games. I'm sure you will find some way to explain how Ryan and Mason thoroughly dominated Zeller and Henson.

3rd Duke-UNC game

Zeller 14 points 4 rebounds
Henson 10 points 18 rebounds

Mason 6 points 5 rebounds
Kelly 9 points 3 rebounds

You've ignored:

1) that Miles started that game instead of Ryan, and scored 9 points on 4-4 shooting to go with 7 rebounds;

2) that Miles, Mason and Kelly got their 24 points on 11-16 shooting from the field; and that

3) that it took Henson and Zeller 26 shots to get their 24 points. Efficiency matters, as does defense.

Other than that, great post.

Duvall
05-10-2011, 06:06 PM
Personally, I am on the fence about it. Its really hard not to be disappointed at the development of Mason Plumlee and Ryan Kelly. They are two top 10 recruits that really were very mediocre college players last year.

You are personally wrong (http://home.roadrunner.com/~rsci/RSCI_100_Final_2009.htm).

loldevilz
05-10-2011, 06:10 PM
You are personally wrong (http://home.roadrunner.com/~rsci/RSCI_100_Final_2009.htm).

oh I mean top 20. you realize there is more than one ranking service right?

NSDukeFan
05-10-2011, 06:16 PM
Seriously, way to change the subject. The question is whether or not Wojo is a good big man coach. No one is attacking Coach K or Collins or any of the others who obviously do a great job.

Personally, I am on the fence about it. Its really hard not to be disappointed at the development of Mason Plumlee and Ryan Kelly. They are two top 10 recruits that really were very mediocre college players last year. And they were completely embarrassed against tougher teams like VT and Arizona.

I don't know the names of any big man coaches, but you only need to look down the road at UNC to see a team that has developed their big men. Zeller and Henson turned into pretty nice players last year and are arguable less talented than Ryan Kelly and Mason Plumlee.

Despite the difficulty, I have been able to not be disappointed at all in the development of a solid part of the big man rotation of a championship team as a freshman, who then started as a sophomore and ended up being one of the top rebounders in the conference for a 32 win team. I am also not at all disappointed in another sophomore who started 27 games for a 32 win team and had the kind of nice jump that I had hoped for, from a freshman year where he didn't get a chance to play a lot in a deep frontcourt rotation, and has me expecting further improvements this year. I expect another step up for these two very solid players next year for Duke.

Other players rated in the same range as Kelly and Mason in their class include:
Keith (Tiny) Gallon (in the D-league, I believe), Abdul Gaddy (started coming along as a sophomore after a disappointing? freshman season before getting hurt), Dante Taylor (has never made the starting line-up at Pitt), Mouphtaou Yarou (solid big man without huge numbers at Nova), Wally Judge (transferred from K-State), Alex Orhiaki (very solid big man on national champion UConn), Michael Snaer (solid rotation player for FSU hoping to make a jump in Junior year), Daniel Orton (didn't play much for UK, but got drafted in NBA due to potential), Dominic Cheek (I believe 7th man or so at Villanova), Milton Jennings (pretty solid starter for Clemson).
Please look at the above list and tell me exactly how and why Mason and Ryan should be considered disappointing compared to those ranked about the same as them coming out of high school. Also, please, please, please, please, tell me who all these great big men coaches are and what their playing credentials were that made them such great big men coaches.

FYI, Henson was a consensus top 5 recruit http://www.rscihoops.com/, while Kelly was 14th, Plumlee 18th and Zeller 18th the year ahead of the others.

rasputin
05-10-2011, 06:20 PM
Perhaps the issue only arises if JC gets another head-coaching gig, he could otherwise get full settlement.



Maybe we flaunt them before we flout them. Or flaunt our flouting.

Maybe I should be flayed with a flute.

Somehow I'm reminded of Bart mentioning some of the less-successful characters on Itch & Scratchy, which included Flatulent Fox.

NashvilleDevil
05-10-2011, 06:42 PM
Seriously, way to change the subject. The question is whether or not Wojo is a good big man coach. No one is attacking Coach K or Collins or any of the others who obviously do a great job.



Can someone please create a version of this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iVKPUNoeI4) for the oft repeated big man coach argument. It really is getting old having to argue about this about 4 times a year.

Oh and welcome back to Duke, Jeff. Your halfcourt heave against Carolina caused me to wake up the entire neighborhood.

loldevilz
05-10-2011, 06:50 PM
Can someone please create a version of this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iVKPUNoeI4) for the oft repeated big man coach argument. It really is getting old having to argue about this about 4 times a year.

Oh and welcome back to Duke, Jeff. Your halfcourt heave against Carolina caused me to wake up the entire neighborhood.

What is wrong with you people? I don't hate Duke. I currently attend Duke for Christ's sake. Apparently saying Wojo is a bad coach is grounds for impeachment around here. I can't imagine what you'd say if I said Paulus was a bad point guard.

CameronBornAndBred
05-10-2011, 06:54 PM
Oh and welcome back to Duke, Jeff. Your halfcourt heave against Carolina caused me to wake up the entire neighborhood.
I may be biased because I was lucky enough to have been there* , but that shot, that game, defines and personifies the rivalry for me. K wasn't on the bench either, I wonder if he woke up his neighborhood too...I hope so! Everytime someone mentions that shot and that game, I get butterflies.

*And it was the last carolina game I saw in Cameron until the total beatdown in 2010. ;)

To put this back on topic, I think Wojo is a great big man coach.
Well..sort of on topic...sigh.

NovaScotian
05-10-2011, 07:17 PM
What is wrong with you people? I don't hate Duke. I currently attend Duke for Christ's sake. Apparently saying Wojo is a bad coach is grounds for impeachment around here. I can't imagine what you'd say if I said Paulus was a bad point guard.

Hahahah, choose your words carefully, I was nearly banned for being harsh on mr greg as he was a source of much frustration for quite some time. I've since moved on.

Listen, I don't begrudge you for criticizing duke and I don't think it makes you any less of a duke fan, you just have to realize just as many of us when we are somewhat new to college that people don't root for college teams like they root for pro teams. That isnt to say college teams should be immune to criticism from their fan bases but rather that we generally are hesitant to blame our own.
everyone on this board, and to a larger extent the duke fan base in general, has chosen to be a duke fan, which is unlike fans of larger state schools or of pro teams where geography determines allegiance. When your local pro team does something you don't like, the criticism comes partly out of frustration with being 'stuck' with that team. With college teams, the closer you are to a school, the more there is an instinct to prtect your own. I realize this is different for student who like me didn't figure sports into where they decided to attend school, but there are plenty of kids at duke who openly root for other college teams (I myself was a st johns fan and dint mind showing it when they came to town) and the fact is you clearly have aligned yourself with duke and are now part of the cult.

If you want your criticisms to be taken seriously, point to some real examples other than Ryan Kelly, who is nobody's definition of a traditional big man and IMO has improved a lot while at duke (and I'm not ignoring all the agita he gave me at unc this year). The argument that duke is wher bi men come to die is not an old one, and it is something that has potentially scared away recruits (Greg Monroe, Patrick Patterson), and while there are examples of unfulfilled potential (mcroberts, shavlik) I think those two players have shown in their post duke careers that they werent going to live up to the hype anyway. what about singler? He ending his duke career on the perimeter but flourished playing forward his first two years. Thomas and zoubek were never superstars but were invaluable starters on a national championship team, something nobody would have projected when they started at duke.
The problem with saying duke doesn't coach big men well brings up other problems too, like who exactly does? Are there programs out there where Post players always flourish (Georgetown twenty years ago, but not any more) like point guards have with calipari and coach mike? I don't think so. I think the problem with this argument is mostly that big men are born, not created the way that guards are. See Timmy Duncan and David Robinson and mutombo and all the other great forwards who didn't pick up a basketball until a late age and still made quite the mark. It was their bodies that did that.

NSDukeFan
05-10-2011, 08:05 PM
What is wrong with you people? I don't hate Duke. I currently attend Duke for Christ's sake. Apparently saying Wojo is a bad coach is grounds for impeachment around here. I can't imagine what you'd say if I said Paulus was a bad point guard.

When you criticize a Duke coach with a cliched argument without any basis in evidence, on a Duke basketball fan site that prides itself on reasonable discussion, what type of reaction were you expecting?

theAlaskanBear
05-10-2011, 08:29 PM
Hahahah, choose your words carefully, I was nearly banned for being harsh on mr greg as he was a source of much frustration for quite some time. I've since moved on.

Listen, I don't begrudge you for criticizing duke and I don't think it makes you any less of a duke fan, you just have to realize just as many of us when we are somewhat new to college that people don't root for college teams like they root for pro teams. That isnt to say college teams should be immune to criticism from their fan bases but rather that we generally are hesitant to blame our own.
everyone on this board, and to a larger extent the duke fan base in general, has chosen to be a duke fan, which is unlike fans of larger state schools or of pro teams where geography determines allegiance. When your local pro team does something you don't like, the criticism comes partly out of frustration with being 'stuck' with that team. With college teams, the closer you are to a school, the more there is an instinct to prtect your own. I realize this is different for student who like me didn't figure sports into where they decided to attend school, but there are plenty of kids at duke who openly root for other college teams (I myself was a st johns fan and dint mind showing it when they came to town) and the fact is you clearly have aligned yourself with duke and are now part of the cult.

If you want your criticisms to be taken seriously, point to some real examples other than Ryan Kelly, who is nobody's definition of a traditional big man and IMO has improved a lot while at duke (and I'm not ignoring all the agita he gave me at unc this year). The argument that duke is wher bi men come to die is not an old one, and it is something that has potentially scared away recruits (Greg Monroe, Patrick Patterson), and while there are examples of unfulfilled potential (mcroberts, shavlik) I think those two players have shown in their post duke careers that they werent going to live up to the hype anyway. what about singler? He ending his duke career on the perimeter but flourished playing forward his first two years. Thomas and zoubek were never superstars but were invaluable starters on a national championship team, something nobody would have projected when they started at duke.
The problem with saying duke doesn't coach big men well brings up other problems too, like who exactly does? Are there programs out there where Post players always flourish (Georgetown twenty years ago, but not any more) like point guards have with calipari and coach mike? I don't think so. I think the problem with this argument is mostly that big men are born, not created the way that guards are. See Timmy Duncan and David Robinson and mutombo and all the other great forwards who didn't pick up a basketball until a late age and still made quite the mark. It was their bodies that did that.

THIS. Elton Brand and Carlos Boozer are two of the better PFs to come along in the last 10 years. They are conventional PFs...not the tallest, but big wide bodies and good hands. The "failures" that get cited are the "new age" big men who like to think they have outside game and want to play more as wings/small forwards. See Shav and McBob. That said, McBob is till in the league and has been productive with the Pacers. Shelden Williams still gets time as a role player.

What schools have more success with bigs than Duke? UNC had Sean May flame out, Marvin Williams and Brenden Wright are busts. Hansbrough is putting up decent numbers this year but none of the UNC bigs have had the success of Boozer or Brand. Georgetown has Hibbert and Monroe -- but jury is still out on Monroe...there aren't many schools that can say they put big men in the league on a regular basis. Even the next can't-miss center Greg Oden has been MIA and will be lucky to play in the NBA again.

Mcluhan
05-10-2011, 08:53 PM
Jury is not out on Monroe. Dude was solidly the third best rookie this year after Blake and Wall.

Adding a nine year veteran head coach and a literal lifetime spent in the game to our bench is a good thing.

airowe
05-10-2011, 10:35 PM
Hahahah, choose your words carefully, I was nearly banned for being harsh on mr greg as he was a source of much frustration for quite some time. I've since moved on.

Listen, I don't begrudge you for criticizing duke and I don't think it makes you any less of a duke fan, you just have to realize just as many of us when we are somewhat new to college that people don't root for college teams like they root for pro teams. That isnt to say college teams should be immune to criticism from their fan bases but rather that we generally are hesitant to blame our own.
everyone on this board, and to a larger extent the duke fan base in general, has chosen to be a duke fan, which is unlike fans of larger state schools or of pro teams where geography determines allegiance. When your local pro team does something you don't like, the criticism comes partly out of frustration with being 'stuck' with that team. With college teams, the closer you are to a school, the more there is an instinct to prtect your own. I realize this is different for student who like me didn't figure sports into where they decided to attend school, but there are plenty of kids at duke who openly root for other college teams (I myself was a st johns fan and dint mind showing it when they came to town) and the fact is you clearly have aligned yourself with duke and are now part of the cult.

If you want your criticisms to be taken seriously, point to some real examples other than Ryan Kelly, who is nobody's definition of a traditional big man and IMO has improved a lot while at duke (and I'm not ignoring all the agita he gave me at unc this year). The argument that duke is wher bi men come to die is not an old one, and it is something that has potentially scared away recruits (Greg Monroe, Patrick Patterson), and while there are examples of unfulfilled potential (mcroberts, shavlik) I think those two players have shown in their post duke careers that they werent going to live up to the hype anyway. what about singler? He ending his duke career on the perimeter but flourished playing forward his first two years. Thomas and zoubek were never superstars but were invaluable starters on a national championship team, something nobody would have projected when they started at duke.
The problem with saying duke doesn't coach big men well brings up other problems too, like who exactly does? Are there programs out there where Post players always flourish (Georgetown twenty years ago, but not any more) like point guards have with calipari and coach mike? I don't think so. I think the problem with this argument is mostly that big men are born, not created the way that guards are. See Timmy Duncan and David Robinson and mutombo and all the other great forwards who didn't pick up a basketball until a late age and still made quite the mark. It was their bodies that did that.


I want to say how graceful of an answer this post is, but I don't want it to be hidden as a comment and I hope that's ok with the maudes.

Wojo has a comparably great resume for developing productive bigs when you look at other assistants around the country, especially when you factor in style of play. Duke has been so loaded on the perimeter of late, it would have been silly for the staff to forcefeed bigs who simply weren't as talented.

That said, expect 2012, a class stacked full of talented bigs, to yield one or two solid players for Duke. And it won't be a coincidence that Coach Jeff Capel was added to the staff. Even if he played guard his entire career.

rotogod00
05-11-2011, 05:11 PM
Telep's take on how Capel may help Duke recruit, especially in the Southwest:

http://insider.espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/blog?name=telep_dave&id=6526806

Mentions that it may move us up Julius Randle's list as he and Capel developed a strong relationship while the latter was at Oklahoma.

CameronBornAndBred
05-11-2011, 05:16 PM
Telep's take on how Capel may help Duke recruit, especially in the Southwest:

http://insider.espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/blog?name=telep_dave&id=6526806

Mentions that it may move us up Julius Randle's list as he and Capel developed a strong relationship while the latter was at Oklahoma.

And that's what I was talking about in my original post in this thread. Like it or not, no matter stated intentions of staying..Capel IS going to get offers in the future. And he will be close to the guys we are recruiting, just like apparently he is with Randle. Sure, Wojo and Collins will be too, and they get offers also. Just thinking out loud here.

flyingdutchdevil
05-12-2011, 05:44 PM
What schools have more success with bigs than Duke? UNC had Sean May flame out, Marvin Williams and Brenden Wright are busts. Hansbrough is putting up decent numbers this year but none of the UNC bigs have had the success of Boozer or Brand. Georgetown has Hibbert and Monroe -- but jury is still out on Monroe...there aren't many schools that can say they put big men in the league on a regular basis. Even the next can't-miss center Greg Oden has been MIA and will be lucky to play in the NBA again.

Interesting post. I agree that developing big men is difficult in college and there isn't a strong correlation between schools and big men in college. Anyway, if I say anything more about Duke's development of big men, there will probably be a %$#! storm coming my way.

I think you're NBA-analysis is a little off. May was definitely a bust, but most of that should be attributed to injury. Wright would be a bust, considering the "potential" that scouts placed on him. But Marvin Williams is not a bust. He may be overvalued and scouts completely screwed the pooch on his potential, but if he is a bust, what does that make Shelden Williams? Few will say it around here because he of his contribution to Duke, but Williams is an NBA bust. His excellent college game did not translate well in the NBA. Hibbert is quality and Monroe was on the Second All-Rookie team. He was one of the only bright spots on a Pistons team that was terrible (much like Henderson on the Bobcats). He will have a bright future. And for Greg Oden, injuries completely derailed his career. I know you didn't call him a bust, but I'm sure there are some around here who do. If he is a bust, then all the injured ex-Duke players that didn't make it in the NBA due to career-injuries must be considered uber busts (Jay Will, Hurley, etc.). I guess the point that I'm trying to make, and this has little to do with your post, is that you can never really know the outcome of a player in the NBA. Scouts - who have 1000x the knowledge we have on potential draftees, screw up left, right, and centre. But, you are right - there is little correlation between a school and NBA big man success.

Sir Stealth
05-14-2011, 11:48 AM
But Marvin Williams is not a bust.

Marvin Williams most certainly is a bust.

CDu
05-14-2011, 12:42 PM
Marvin Williams most certainly is a bust.

I think that depends on your definition of bust. Williams has been a starter on a playoff-caliber team and has averaged over 10ppg since becoming a starter 5 years ago. He's got a good chance at scoring over 10,000 career points in the NBA. He isn't as good as some guys that were drafted behind him (including superstars Paul and Williams), but he's been a very solid NBA player.

If you set the bar at being a superstar, then yes he's a bust. If you set it at being an all-star caliber player, then so far he's been a bust. But there have been far better examples of busts than Williams.

yancem
05-14-2011, 02:33 PM
I think that depends on your definition of bust. Williams has been a starter on a playoff-caliber team and has averaged over 10ppg since becoming a starter 5 years ago. He's got a good chance at scoring over 10,000 career points in the NBA. He isn't as good as some guys that were drafted behind him (including superstars Paul and Williams), but he's been a very solid NBA player.

If you set the bar at being a superstar, then yes he's a bust. If you set it at being an all-star caliber player, then so far he's been a bust. But there have been far better examples of busts than Williams.

For the most part I agree with you. At this point he is certainly having a better career than our own Danny Ferry had. I think that the reason that some label Williams (and Ferry) a bust is based on draft position. Neither have come close to meeting expectations and I think that both the Hawks and Cavaliers would draft differently if give a chance. Another Duke comparison would be Dunleavy. His first 6 seasons looked much like Williams'. Dunleavy was also considered a bust until he got traded to Indiana (of course injuries have derailed him the past to years). All three players have or will have solid long professional careers so calling them a bust isn't terribly accurate but I think that we can all agree that when you favorite team has a top 2 or 3 pick, you're hoping for more than 10-12 ppg game roll player. So I think that is reasonable to call all 3 disappointments based on draft position.

Sir Stealth
05-14-2011, 06:59 PM
I think that depends on your definition of bust. Williams has been a starter on a playoff-caliber team and has averaged over 10ppg since becoming a starter 5 years ago. He's got a good chance at scoring over 10,000 career points in the NBA. He isn't as good as some guys that were drafted behind him (including superstars Paul and Williams), but he's been a very solid NBA player.

If you set the bar at being a superstar, then yes he's a bust. If you set it at being an all-star caliber player, then so far he's been a bust. But there have been far better examples of busts than Williams.

Full disclosure: I'm a Hawks fan. I watch Marvin play - he is just not a good player and has hardly improved at all over the course of his career. The bust status does come from being drafted so high, but I'm not even saying he has to be an All Star caliber player - just a decent one. I actually want Marvin to succeed very badly, but he is very below average in my opinion. He has mostly been a starter, but you may have noticed that in these playoffs he was completely in the background, did not start many games, was far from one of the top 5 players on his team, and was brutal when he was in the game.

tele
05-15-2011, 06:02 PM
. Also, please, please, please, please, tell me who all these great big men coaches are and what their playing credentials were that made them such great big men coaches.

.

Well, people seem to point to Pete Newell, who was 6' 2",as a great big man coach who wasn't a big himself. This is somewhat of a fallacy in itself though, since when Newell played for Loyola Marymount from 1936-39 players were much shorter and he did play in the post.

I think that is the key point, whether you have done something yourself and have gained some level of accomplishment sufficient so you can teach it to someone else at a practical level and not just in a hypothetical sense.

Playing with your back to the basket is a completely different game than playing on the perimeter. That doesn't mean you necessarily have to be a certain height to excel at either or to coach one height of player or another. But to deny that having played the post doesn't help you to teach someone else to play that postion is, in my opinion, just "short"sighted.
Here are a few other big men mentors, I expect you're already familiar with their credentials: http://dimemag.com/2010/08/pay-it-forward-legends-school-the-nbas-young-giants/

One other observation, I thought I noticed a marked improvement in the play of this past years Duke front line after the first Carolina game. In fact, I thought I noticed it even during the game to the point where the Duke bigs were more than holding their own by the end of the second half. I think it may have been due in part to playing against the Carolina bigs and adjusting to the tempo that Zeller played at (less harried and frenetic, more of a big pace than trying to out quick everything like a guard might), and the freedom that Henson moved and scored in the lane (less rigid and restricted to some set play or move like that jump hook). You can pick up a lot of things from other players at the same position I guess.

watzone
05-20-2011, 02:51 PM
Capel met with the mediat today and spoke of how his hiring came about - http://bluedevilnation.net/2011/05/new-duke-ac-jeff-capel-addresses-the-media/

NSDukeFan
05-21-2011, 01:05 PM
Well, people seem to point to Pete Newell, who was 6' 2",as a great big man coach who wasn't a big himself. This is somewhat of a fallacy in itself though, since when Newell played for Loyola Marymount from 1936-39 players were much shorter and he did play in the post.
This leads me to a whole bunch of questions about the requirements of a big man coach. Do the "big man coach has to be a big man" proponents believe that playing the post is key or being tall is key? In this theory, would outside shooting 7 feet tall Brad Lohaus be a better coach, or 6'4 great post player Adrian Dantley? Or a guard who could post up like Gary Payton?

I think that is the key point, whether you have done something yourself and have gained some level of accomplishment sufficient so you can teach it to someone else at a practical level and not just in a hypothetical sense.

Playing with your back to the basket is a completely different game than playing on the perimeter. That doesn't mean you necessarily have to be a certain height to excel at either or to coach one height of player or another. But to deny that having played the post doesn't help you to teach someone else to play that postion is, in my opinion, just "short"sighted.
Here are a few other big men mentors, I expect you're already familiar with their credentials: http://dimemag.com/2010/08/pay-it-forward-legends-school-the-nbas-young-giants/
The next question of course is what level of success is needed for a player to become a good coach? Could someone who played post very well in high school or college be a good big man coach or would the player have to have been successful in the pros? How much time in the post would this coach have to have spent? Could a big man who scored exclusively on the perimeter, but defended inside be a good big man coach? What about someone who scored in the post, but defended on the perimeter? At any point, does the ability to teach come into the expected success of a big man coach or is purely past playing ability? If someone has coached big men, could that replace some of the experience of playing, or am I silly for suggesting the possibility? Is there a special reason that it is just basketball big men that need to have a big man coach as opposed to other positions in basketball and other sports?

One other observation, I thought I noticed a marked improvement in the play of this past years Duke front line after the first Carolina game. In fact, I thought I noticed it even during the game to the point where the Duke bigs were more than holding their own by the end of the second half. I think it may have been due in part to playing against the Carolina bigs and adjusting to the tempo that Zeller played at (less harried and frenetic, more of a big pace than trying to out quick everything like a guard might), and the freedom that Henson moved and scored in the lane (less rigid and restricted to some set play or move like that jump hook). You can pick up a lot of things from other players at the same position I guess.

Thank you for your reply and you have brought up some interesting points. But...do you believe that Mason, Miles and Ryan became better big men this year more because they watched and played against Zeller and Henson for a few minutes than what they learned every day in practise with Wojo over 2 years of practice? To put it mildly, I disagree.

I read the article you posted with interest and enjoyed it. I certainly appreciate the examples of big men coaches whose, you were correct, credentials I was familiar with. So these former pros are helping out some of the current crop of NBA big men. As more of a Duke fan than an NBA fan, I wonder more about who the coaches are that helped these big men get to the NBA and would also be curious how much these big men coaches are impacting these players vs. their regular coaches.

My recollections from playing basketball and watching are that the big men all want to be guards. The flip side of that of course is that the guards (at least in my case and some of my teammates) wanted to be post players and although I never did grow above 6 feet tall, I had plenty of opportunity to work on post play and plenty of chances to guard bigger players who played in the post. Could that type of experience help at all for someone who wants to be a big man coach?

I very much appreciate that you brought arguments and a link to another article into the discussion. I just strongly disagree with the idea that a person has to have experience doing something at a particular level to be able to successfully teach it. I agree that it can be helpful, but I strongly disagree that it is a necessity. Fortunately, those that instructed the original astronauts felt the same way and in my profession as a pharmacist, I don't feel experience is the most important criteria in how well I do my job.

Back to the thread, I am excited that Capel has joined the coaching staff and have no idea if he would be a good big man coach or not, but he does have the experience of coaching one of the most recent top big men to enter the NBA. I hope this helps with big man recruiting, which may be more important than who the big man coach is. I am, however, very happy to have a big man coach, who seems to be recognized as a very good coach, with several years experience teaching and coaching big men. I am going to trust coach K in that he seems to be very pleased with the coaching staff he has assembled.

BD80
05-21-2011, 02:05 PM
I despise the "we need a taller coach for the big men" rhetoric, and I admit I ignore most of the drivel criticizing Wojo as a coach for post players.

Thus, forgive me for asking, but other than John Thompson II (who it could be argued was as much a big man recruiter as a big man coach) who are the tall coaches that produced great post players?

Who ARE the current coaches that are considered the best post-player coaches, and how tall are they?

OldPhiKap
05-21-2011, 02:36 PM
I despise the "we need a taller coach for the big men" rhetoric, and I admit I ignore most of the drivel criticizing Wojo as a coach for post players.

Thus, forgive me for asking, but other than John Thompson II (who it could be argued was as much a big man recruiter as a big man coach) who are the tall coaches that produced great post players?

Who ARE the current coaches that are considered the best post-player coaches, and how tall are they?

Good question.

Was Dave Odom a good big man coach, because of Tim Duncan?

Cliff Barnes, because of the Grant brothers?

It is hard to separate the talent from the coached skill.

NashvilleDevil
06-03-2011, 12:01 PM
Now that he is retired Duke must get Shaq on their bench as the big man coach. It is the only way that Duke's big men will realize their potential. It will also help Duke not flame out so early in the NCAA tourney only a year removed from winning it all. (j/k)

CameronBornAndBred
06-03-2011, 01:31 PM
Now that he is retired Duke must get Shaq on their bench as the big man coach. It is the only way that Duke's big men will realize their potential. It will also help Duke not flame out so early in the NCAA tourney only a year removed from winning it all. (j/k)
Just make sure that we never remind him of the "overrated" chant. :rolleyes:

mapei
06-03-2011, 05:12 PM
Interesting discussion. I think it's worth mentioning that the dominant style of basketball at both NBA and NCAA levels has changed over the last decade-plus. It's not so much about a featured "big man" playing back-to-the-basket on offense anymore. Jordan Williams was the only really impressive big man in the ACC last year.

The best players seem to be wings, and the game is now designed to feature them more than centers. I'm not sure if that makes the "big-man coach" more or less important in the overall scheme of things, but the players he is coaching are probably less important, as a group, than they once were.

I'm not sure that Duke has had a dominant, traditional center in decades. (G-man, maybe, but that was before I was paying attention.) Shelden came close (especially defensively), and Brand before him, but Elton only played for one full year. Neither is a 5 in the NBA, and Shelden is barely in the NBA at all, unfortunately. Boozer was better than average at the college level, but really blossomed only when he moved to the 4 in the NBA; Zoubek was awesome playing a tradtional big-man style, but only for half a year.

Most years we have serviceable players at the 4 & 5 spots, and more outstanding players at 1, 2 and 3. I think that's the way it is for most teams now.

As for the actual topic of the thread, I'm not sure whether Jeff is going to be as great for the program as many believe. I don't have much reason to doubt it, but he's just unproven to me as an assistant under K. I'm not sure how his assets will translate into being an assistant with this particular group. I think K was mainly being loyal in hiring him, and that in itself is admirable.

NSDukeFan
07-16-2011, 11:38 AM
http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/32849/coach-k-again-comes-through-for-jeff-capel

Nice article about coach K being there at difficult times for coach Capel.

devildeac
07-17-2011, 11:07 PM
Just make sure that we never remind him of the "overrated" chant. :rolleyes:

Or (IIRC):

1,2,3,4

Shaq can't play this game no more.

:D

Richard Berg
07-18-2011, 01:24 AM
Most years we have serviceable players at the 4 & 5 spots, and more outstanding players at 1, 2 and 3. I think that's the way it is for most teams now.

Not surprising. The NBA loves size, and isn't afraid to draft'm young.