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View Full Version : Why is nobody talking about Mason Plumlee?



Stratrat
04-25-2011, 11:21 PM
I haven't seen anyone talking about Mason and his obvious decision to stay at Duke. I wonder why he never announced his decision to the Blue Devil Nation. The N&O made a big deal about Leslie and I surely believe Mason's decision is news worthy.
Anybody?

airowe
04-25-2011, 11:33 PM
I haven't seen anyone talking about Mason and his obvious decision to stay at Duke. I wonder why he never announced his decision to the Blue Devil Nation. The N&O made a big deal about Leslie and I surely believe Mason's decision is news worthy.
Anybody?

I think the bolded answered your own question. Mason never stated he was considering going pro, Leslie did. Mason's decision was never in question.

burns15
04-25-2011, 11:43 PM
I haven't seen anyone talking about Mason and his obvious decision to stay at Duke. I wonder why he never announced his decision to the Blue Devil Nation. The N&O made a big deal about Leslie and I surely believe Mason's decision is news worthy.
Anybody?

you dont' have to announce your decision to stay in college. Tyler Thornton didn't have a press conference to announce that he was returning to Duke

Greg_Newton
04-26-2011, 12:24 AM
Because Mason Plummlee doesn't exist?

Skitzle
04-26-2011, 02:46 AM
Because Mason Plummlee doesn't exist?


The greatest trick the Mason Ever pulled.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Mlobb6hTYKI/S-UWPXAW2XI/AAAAAAAAAEE/d7sEmneFEAQ/s1600/Usual+suspects+hes+gone.jpg

mkline09
04-26-2011, 06:41 AM
The greatest trick the Mason Ever pulled.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Mlobb6hTYKI/S-UWPXAW2XI/AAAAAAAAAEE/d7sEmneFEAQ/s1600/Usual+suspects+hes+gone.jpg

I think Keyser Soze could play the 3 and maybe the 4 with the right matchups.

darjum
04-26-2011, 07:49 AM
MP2 may be quiet now...but next year he'll be loud as he posts 46 pts and 19 Reb against the Tar Heels...oh wait, that was Dwight Howard in G1 of the Hawks series, my mistake ;)

zoroaster
04-26-2011, 08:26 AM
I think Keyser Soze could play the 3 and maybe the 4 with the right matchups.

Especially now that he got that toe taken care of. (Those Duke medical center doctors are amazing!)

OldPhiKap
04-26-2011, 09:33 AM
"How do you block out the devil, agent Kujan?

"What if you miss?!?"

mkline09
04-26-2011, 09:44 AM
"How do you block out the devil, agent Kujan?

"What if you miss?!?"

You would need an Orca Fat low post player. Perhaps Redfoot would be up to the task too, but it is doubtful.

gumbomoop
04-26-2011, 09:58 AM
I haven't seen anyone talking about Mason and his obvious decision to stay at Duke. I wonder why he never announced his decision to the Blue Devil Nation.

I cannot express with sufficient gratitude my, well, gratitude to Mason.


I may be in a minority of one here, but if Mason has decided to stay, I'd just as soon he not have a press conference to announce it. No Skype/Tweet stuff, either. Preferably no announcement whatsoever, from him, his family, his brothers, Nolan, Kyrie, GoDuke, the Honorable Mods, nobody. I'd prefer that he simply let pass the deadline to declare for the draft.

It would show some extra good sense on Mason's part. In effect, he'd be saying, "Yeah, I know there's talk about me and the NBA, but I think I need to improve some first. And Miles and I are gonna beat the crap out of Marshall in practice. Some things are more important than money."

Fwiw, I'd bet the chance to beat up on Marshall was the key to Mason's non-decision. Hard to top brotherly love. Or, as Mason said, "You know, my little brother has been a royal pain. It's pay-back time." [Can't find link, but I'll keep looking.]

roywhite
04-26-2011, 10:12 AM
I cannot express with sufficient gratitude my, well, gratitude to Mason.

Fwiw, I'd bet the chance to beat up on Marshall was the key to Mason's non-decision. Hard to top brotherly love. Or, as Mason said, "You know, my little brother has been a royal pain. It's pay-back time." [Can't find link, but I'll keep looking.]

Yeah, didn't Marshall recently give Mason a public jab about his 40%-ish free throw shooting?

By the way, if that's incentive for Mason to shoot a hundred more free throws every day over the summer, fine with me.

Lord Ash
04-26-2011, 10:14 AM
Is there any chance a mod would be willing to change the title so Mason's name is spelled properly? It is strange to see the name of our starting center, back-up center, and third string center all spelled wrong on a Duke forum:)

gumbomoop
04-26-2011, 10:23 AM
Yeah, didn't Marshall recently give Mason a public jab about his 40%-ish free throw shooting?

Yeah, I forgot about that. You know, for those posters who suggest maybe Marshall should redshirt, well, maybe he'll have to medical redshirt. I hope K doesn't kick Mason off the team for taking Marshall out in the first practice. But he probably will just suspend him for a few games..... and report Cleveland St. to the NCAA.

OldPhiKap
04-26-2011, 10:36 AM
Is there any chance a mod would be willing to change the title so Mason's name is spelled properly? It is strange to see the name of our starting center, back-up center, and third string center all spelled wrong on a Duke forum:)

Since we have Miles, Mason and Marshall, shouldn't they be willing to change their name to Plummmlee?

Seems only fair.

Slackerb
04-26-2011, 10:44 AM
Part of it is that Mason is a smaller piece of a good team, while Leslie is the star of a worse team.

Also, Leslie has more potential and is a bit better than Mason at similar stages of their career.

OZZIE4DUKE
04-26-2011, 10:53 AM
Is there any chance a mod would be willing to change the title so Mason's name is spelled properly? It is strange to see the name of our starting center, back-up center, and third string center all spelled wrong on a Duke forum:)


Since we have Miles, Mason and Marshall, shouldn't they be willing to change their name to Plummmlee?

Seems only fair.
I would vote for Plummmleee! http://www.crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/devil9f.gifhttp://www.crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/devil9f.gifhttp://www.crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/devil9f.gif

Olympic Fan
04-26-2011, 11:18 AM
It is strange to see the name of our starting center, back-up center, and third string center all spelled wrong on a Duke forum:)

Starting center? Backup center?

Weren't both Mason AND Miles starting post players for the last half of last season?

I'll give you Marshall as a third-string guy ... but Miles and Mason are 40 percent of our starting lineup.

Duvall
04-26-2011, 11:21 AM
Starting center? Backup center?

Weren't both Mason AND Miles starting post players for the last half of last season?

I'll give you Marshall as a third-string guy ... but Miles and Mason are 40 percent of our starting lineup.

Besides, it's the offseason, and Miles is always Duke's starting center in the offseason.

Lord Ash
04-26-2011, 11:25 AM
Starting center? Backup center?

Weren't both Mason AND Miles starting post players for the last half of last season?

I'll give you Marshall as a third-string guy ... but Miles and Mason are 40 percent of our starting lineup.

True, but I found it more amusing to go three deep at a position and say you've spelled ALL their names wrong:) Your way is fine too!

Bluedevil114
04-26-2011, 11:28 AM
Part of it is that Mason is a smaller piece of a good team, while Leslie is the star of a worse team.

Also, Leslie has more potential and is a bit better than Mason at similar stages of their career.

Plus no one on this board or as a Duke fan really believed Mason should go Pro after this past season. He truly was not ready. He was inconsistent at best. He needs to learn to be more of a post player and also needs to work on free throw shooting. He has the athletic ability to do well at the next level but the low post moves need to improve over the next year. That will be the only way he gets any playing time at the next level.

The only thing that would have benefited Mason leaving this year is the weak class that is going into the draft. There is also no doubt that his brother, Marshall, coming this year definitely increased the chances of his returning.

If he can improve over the next year leaps and bounds then that will only help improve our recruiting of big men in the future.

gumbomoop
04-26-2011, 11:31 AM
Part of it is that Mason is a smaller piece of a good team, while Leslie is the star of a worse team.

Also, Leslie has more potential and is a bit better than Mason at similar stages of their career.

Not fighting words, but maybe debatable at the margins. Mason is, surely, a big piece of a very good team expecting to become an excellent one. And Leslie might well become a star, but NCSt has some good players, including Harrow, Brown, Wood, Howell, possibly Painter. I guess it's true Leslie, just possibly Harrow, are the potential stars over there.

Potential? Maybe NBA guys have soured on Mason, though I doubt it; and if not, one would think Mason's potential is more potent than Leslie's. They both gotta get better, more consistent, play smarter, and undoubtedly will next season. Appears they both know that.

Devilsfan
04-26-2011, 03:05 PM
Not ready for a fight but to paraphrase "the General" Mason is also a student.

Jderf
04-26-2011, 04:17 PM
Since we have Miles, Mason and Marshall, shouldn't they be willing to change their name to Plummmlee?

Seems only fair.

Actually, I believe the plural is Plumli.

OldPhiKap
04-26-2011, 04:22 PM
Actually, I believe the plural is Plumli.

2008-2009: Plumlee
2009-2001: Plummlee
2011-2012: Plummmlee
2012-2013: Plumlee (projected)



Although if several pods of Plumli got together, would that be a Plumlus?

Devilsfan
04-26-2011, 04:55 PM
There's one MP to rebound, one to score and one to set picks. What more could anyone ask for? I know but Dwight Howard doesn't have any elligibility left.

Stratrat
04-26-2011, 07:13 PM
I think the bolded answered your own question. Mason never stated he was considering going pro, Leslie did. Mason's decision was never in question.

I saw more than one article, on more than one site about Mason leaning towards going pro. He also never publicly said he was returning for sure either. With all the news about Barnes coming back, I sure would like for someone to write something about Mason.

Newton_14
04-26-2011, 08:12 PM
Part of it is that Mason is a smaller piece of a good team, while Leslie is the star of a worse team.

Also, Leslie has more potential and is a bit better than Mason at similar stages of their career.

Whoah there partner. The only thing Leslie was a "star" of as a freshman was poor attitude and poor work ethic. Leslie was not even close to being a star. And I fully admit to viewing Leslie as possibly the 2nd most talented freshman coming into the ACC last year. The guy has a lot of skills, but he disappointed in a huge way as a freshman. He may turn into a star as a college player but a lot has to change for that to happen.

Mason is a better player right now, and it's not really close. No way I would trade Mason straight up to NC State for Leslie. Mason will be a big part of what Duke does this year.

kong123
04-26-2011, 08:21 PM
Whoah there partner. The only thing Leslie was a "star" of as a freshman was poor attitude and poor work ethic. Leslie was not even close to being a star. And I fully admit to viewing Leslie as possibly the 2nd most talented freshman coming into the ACC last year. The guy has a lot of skills, but he disappointed in a huge way as a freshman. He may turn into a star as a college player but a lot has to change for that to happen.

Mason is a better player right now, and it's not really close. No way I would trade Mason straight up to NC State for Leslie. Mason will be a big part of what Duke does this year.

If you look at the stats, CJ produced more last year, but numbers hardly tell the whole story. The guy seems to have issues being a good teammate. IMHO, if he can improve in this area, his upside is higher than Mason's. Mason is a big and athletic kid, but until his offensive skill's improve, his upside will not be realized.

gumbomoop
04-26-2011, 08:35 PM
If you look at the stats, CJ produced more last year, but numbers hardly tell the whole story. The guy seems to have issues being a good teammate. IMHO, if he can improve in this area, his upside is higher than Mason's. Mason is a big and athletic kid, but until his offensive skill's improve, his upside will not be realized.

I'm not trying to be disputatious [so help me], but I'm not quite following your logic here. Maybe there are 2 related but quite distinct issues: (1) Which player has the higher "upside," if both achieve their near-very-highest potential [= upside]? (2) Which player, over time, is the more likely to actually achieve his upside?

The way I read your post, it seems that you think Leslie is the answer to question (2), but that you don't quite address question (1).

Newton_14
04-26-2011, 08:46 PM
If you look at the stats, CJ produced more last year, but numbers hardly tell the whole story. The guy seems to have issues being a good teammate. IMHO, if he can improve in this area, his upside is higher than Mason's. Mason is a big and athletic kid, but until his offensive skill's improve, his upside will not be realized.

Stats do not always tell the story. They certainly don't in the case of these two players. Again, I like Leslie's skillset, but his attitude has to improve. It is all up to him. He can be a really good college player if he wants to be. As for the NBA, he is slender with a suspect outside shot. There are a ton of guys in the NBDL today with similar size. Leslie will have to greatly improve his outside shot or gain a lot of strength to have success in the NBA.

Mason has an NBA type body already, and is a great rebounder. His shortcomings are mainly with ability to score the basketball. Which hurts him, obviously, but he can rebound and defend.

kong123
04-26-2011, 08:59 PM
I'm not trying to be disputatious [so help me], but I'm not quite following your logic here. Maybe there are 2 related but quite distinct issues: (1) Which player has the higher "upside," if both achieve their near-very-highest potential [= upside]? (2) Which player, over time, is the more likely to actually achieve his upside?

The way I read your post, it seems that you think Leslie is the answer to question (2), but that you don't quite address question (1).

I think CJ has the offensive skills to be more successful in the NBA. I believe the only thing CJ can improve on in college is his attitude. He would improve his game more by sitting on an NBA bench.

Mason has a big body that can insure a long career in the NBA. There are a lot of guys in the NBA that get PT because they can play defense. Maybe Mason will be one of those guys?

in the end, Mason may have a longer NBA career than CJ, but ultimately that may have less to do with their ability to play basketball and more with their ability to get along with other people.

Newton_14
04-26-2011, 09:13 PM
I think CJ has the offensive skills to be more successful in the NBA. I believe the only thing CJ can improve on in college is his attitude. He would improve his game more by sitting on an NBA bench.

Mason has a big body that can insure a long career in the NBA. There are a lot of guys in the NBA that get PT because they can play defense. Maybe Mason will be one of those guys?

in the end, Mason may have a longer NBA career than CJ, but ultimately that may have less to do with their ability to play basketball and more with their ability to get along with other people.

I agree Leslie has scoring ability in the college game. I disagree on what he could improve on in college though. I think he could improve a lot on defense, court awareness, passing, communication, and just playing harder.

At the NBA level, do you think he could an effective scorer? He has great quickness and length which are positives, but can he improve his outside shot, and add enough strength to be able to score effectively as a slasher?

I was actually shocked that Leslie did not runaway with ACC Rook of The Year after Kyrie's injury and HB's slow start. I felt he was going to be a stud. But, he just never really impressed on a consistent basis, which is why I question how good he ends up being in both college and the NBA.

kong123
04-26-2011, 09:20 PM
I agree Leslie has scoring ability in the college game. I disagree on what he could improve on in college though. I think he could improve a lot on defense, court awareness, passing, communication, and just playing harder.

At the NBA level, do you think he could an effective scorer? He has great quickness and length which are positives, but can he improve his outside shot, and add enough strength to be able to score effectively as a slasher?

I was actually shocked that Leslie did not runaway with ACC Rook of The Year after Kyrie's injury and HB's slow start. I felt he was going to be a stud. But, he just never really impressed on a consistent basis, which is why I question how good he ends up being in both college and the NBA.

There are a lot of players that seem not to meet expectations. I believe CJ needs to be in a more positive and a more structured situation than he currently is in Raleigh. While it can be normally expected that a kid can improve defense and certain offensive skills in college, a new coach and an unstable fanbase make this tougher for a kid with a selfish mindset.

Newton_14
04-26-2011, 09:38 PM
There are a lot of players that seem not to meet expectations. I believe CJ needs to be in a more positive and a more structured situation than he currently is in Raleigh. While it can be normally expected that a kid can improve defense and certain offensive skills in college, a new coach and an unstable fanbase make this tougher for a kid with a selfish mindset.

Ok. I see where you are coming from a little better now. I normally am the first to defend a college freshman who underperformed, and stress we need to give them time to develop, so maybe I am being unfair to Leslie.

Based on his history, State's new coach seems to have what it takes to coach a team up and have success, but I do see where you are coming from with Leslie appearing to be somewhat of a selfish player, and how that can be a detriment to his development. Add in the volatile fanbase, and a new staff that maybe some do not have faith in, and it could mean Leslie never puts it together there.

davekay1971
04-26-2011, 09:41 PM
There are a lot of players that seem not to meet expectations. I believe CJ needs to be in a more positive and a more structured situation than he currently is in Raleigh. While it can be normally expected that a kid can improve defense and certain offensive skills in college, a new coach and an unstable fanbase make this tougher for a kid with a selfish mindset.

I'll never understand the stereotype of the NC State fanbase as "unstable." It's an extremely loyal fanbase. Are they frustrated and impatient with the basketball program's inability to compete with UNC and Duke? Sure...just as the Duke or UNC fanbase would be if our program found itself 3rd wheel in the Triangle. I agree completely with Kong's assessment that the instability in the coaching situation at State makes it tougher for the young players at State (particularly a kid with maturity issues)...but the NC State fanbase is actually quite supportive of the players. For comparison, might I point out the IC board meltdowns about some of the players on the 2009-2010 UNC team...

Newton_14
04-26-2011, 09:48 PM
I'll never understand the stereotype of the NC State fanbase as "unstable." It's an extremely loyal fanbase. Are they frustrated and impatient with the basketball program's inability to compete with UNC and Duke? Sure...just as the Duke or UNC fanbase would be if our program found itself 3rd wheel in the Triangle. I agree completely with Kong's assessment that the instability in the coaching situation at State makes it tougher for the young players at State (particularly a kid with maturity issues)...but the NC State fanbase is actually quite supportive of the players. For comparison, might I point out the IC board meltdowns about some of the players on the 2009-2010 UNC team...

I think it is more about "perception" than anything else. There is a lunatic fringe element in any fanbase. Your point about IC is very valid. For whatever reason, State's lunatic fringe seems to get far more publicity than any other. Why national writers like Goodman and Parrish chose to make a big deal out of it, is beyond me, and only gave the reputation more legs.

I agree it is unfair, but have no idea how State overcomes it. I mentioned this in the Harrow thread, but it does not help that Harrow spoke out against a part of the fanbase last season in his Facebook postings either.

State is nowhere near the "worst job" in College Basketball, yet those writers wrote that, so some believe it. Just a bizarre situation.

kong123
04-26-2011, 09:48 PM
but the NC State fanbase is actually quite supportive of the players. For comparison, might I point out the IC board meltdowns about some of the players on the 2009-2010 UNC team...


look, every fan base can be a bit unstable. Whether the instability is quick meltdown or a longer one like UNC had in 2009-2010, no one is immune to it. having said that, when a fan base has unrealistic expectations, a program that continues to lose against their biggest rivals, and has major issues finding a coach that they want that actually wants them back- I say NCSU is a special case. Raleigh is a toxic place right now to play college basketball.

SupaDave
04-26-2011, 10:24 PM
look, every fan base can be a bit unstable. Whether the instability is quick meltdown or a longer one like UNC had in 2009-2010, no one is immune to it. having said that, when a fan base has unrealistic expectations, a program that continues to lose against their biggest rivals, and has major issues finding a coach that they want that actually wants them back- I say NCSU is a special case. Raleigh is a toxic place right now to play college basketball.

I don't believe Raleigh to be a toxic place. They just need to win. It hurts to see a program at the bottom of a weak ACC and I totally understand the angst of State fans.

darjum
04-27-2011, 01:05 AM
I haven't seen anyone talking about Mason and his obvious decision to stay at Duke. I wonder why he never announced his decision to the Blue Devil Nation. The N&O made a big deal about Leslie and I surely believe Mason's decision is news worthy.
Anybody?


Part of it is that Mason is a smaller piece of a good team, while Leslie is the star of a worse team.

Also, Leslie has more potential and is a bit better than Mason at similar stages of their career.

Slackerb I can see why you answered how you did to the original starting post. Basically you were saying that there is a larger talent disparity between Leslie & the majority of his teammates than Mason, who has equally as talented teammates.

MP2 and Leslie have different games, whilst MP2 next year will be the anchor on defense of a potential top 10 preseason team (I personally think ranked # 5), Leslie will have a lot to prove on what is shaping as a dysfunctional NC State squad. I agree that Leslie is a little more polished offensively during their respective Freshman years. I watched quite a few State games last year and whilst Leslie had many 'wow' moments offensively, his defense, particularly the ability to rotate effectively, was poor. So many times the ring was left unprotected by either Smith or Leslie's inability to get back and block a shot or take a charge.

I really hope MP2's offense picks up and this year we see a more rounded player; having said that I'll take ten plus rebounds and two and half blocks also:D

magjayran
04-27-2011, 01:39 AM
I think CJ has the offensive skills to be more successful in the NBA. I believe the only thing CJ can improve on in college is his attitude. He would improve his game more by sitting on an NBA bench.

Mason has a big body that can insure a long career in the NBA. There are a lot of guys in the NBA that get PT because they can play defense. Maybe Mason will be one of those guys?

in the end, Mason may have a longer NBA career than CJ, but ultimately that may have less to do with their ability to play basketball and more with their ability to get along with other people.

I mostly agree with you here. I would like to add that I think a player sticking around college an extra year or two to develop mentally and emotionally is highly underrated.

OZZIE4DUKE
04-27-2011, 09:54 AM
I really hope MP2's offense picks up and this year we see a more rounded player; having said that I'll take ten plus rebounds and two and half blocks also:D
If you can watch the game in which MP2 scored 25 points early in the season, you'll see him take, and make, a variety of mid range jump shots that found the bottom of the net late in the game. Real head shakers, as in "where the heck did that come from?" We never saw them again. He showed his complete offensive arsenal that game, from rim-rattling dunks to a deft outside shooting touch. Hopefully, after a summer of hard work, we will, with similar results!

darjum
04-27-2011, 10:11 AM
If you can watch the game in which MP2 scored 25 points early in the season, you'll see him take, and make, a variety of mid range jump shots that found the bottom of the net late in the game. Real head shakers, as in "where the heck did that come from?" We never saw them again. He showed his complete offensive arsenal that game, from rim-rattling dunks to a deft outside shooting touch. Hopefully, after a summer of hard work, we will, with similar results!

An answer I heard many times was that Mason was merely the benefactor of having Kyrie to set him up. I actually don't buy that completely myself. Yes, having a lottery talented point guard will elevate your ability to score as a big man, hopefully your pg will create a lot of easy looks for you. But once you get the ball down low or in the high post you need to have the confidence to go to work.

This I feel is where Mason falls off. Confidence. If it his free throw shooting (.441%) or as yet unseen understanding of when to pump fake and when to use your athletic gifts and just rise up, there are times when he just looks lost offensively. Personally I would love to see him do most of his work down low and develop a jump hook, which with his jumping ability could be a useful weapon. I believe a high-low post offense between he and Kelly could be a devastating weapon for Duke next season and that with both Juniors, Duke is in safe hands in the front court. To put it mildly I'm all in MP2 bandwagon and feel that he is the key to Duke next season. Regardless of his offense, defensively is where he will shine. Adding 10+ points to 10+ rebounds wouldn't hurt though :D

BD80
04-27-2011, 10:17 AM
Besides, it's the offseason, and Miles is always Duke's starting center in the offseason.

He's been tearing it up in pick-up games, he should easily average 25 pts, 15 rbs and 8 asts next year.

What do you mean I have to wait until June for the comparisons to Nick Horvath?

watzone
04-27-2011, 12:17 PM
One must understand that newspapers constantly go for hits, so Plumlee possibly going pro was good for that. Mason is loved by NBA scouts for his potential and the coaches said that if he kept working [during hoops banquet] that he could be great. Mason is a heckuva student as well, highest GPA on the team. Mason seems to be running his own race and a lot of people will expect him to blow up this season and that is a fair expectation. I was told early on that Mason would likely return from as good a source as there is and so I never made a big deal out of the possibility of him leaving or that he returned. Duke fans are more than a little happy this took place but there is no need for thinking he is under appreciated when that is simply not the case. Mason could have gone to the league off potential this season, but another year and maybe two at Duke will not hurt his chances and will allow him to improve. Besides, how many schools can claim three brothers on a roster? That may have played a role as well. Who knows, he may stick around for four years and play with Marshall whom many think will redshirt. But I will say this, I am really glad he is back and think he can make All ACC if he works this off season.

roywhite
04-27-2011, 12:26 PM
One must understand that newspapers constantly go for hits, so Plumlee possibly going pro was good for that. Mason is loved by NBA scouts for his potential and the coaches said that if he kept working [during hoops banquet] that he could be great. Mason is a heckuva student as well, highest GPA on the team. Mason seems to be running his own race and a lot of people will expect him to blow up this season and that is a fair expectation. I was told early on that Mason would likely return from as good a source as there is and so I never made a big deal out of the possibility of him leaving or that he returned. Duke fans are more than a little happy this took place but there is no need for thinking he is under appreciated when that is simply not the case. Mason could have gone to the league off potential this season, but another year and maybe two at Duke will not hurt his chances and will allow him to improve. Besides, how many schools can claim three brothers on a roster? That may have played a role as well. Who knows, he may stick around for four years and play with Marshall whom many think will redshirt. But I will say this, I am really glad he is back and think he can make All ACC if he works this off season.


Thanks, watzone; good comments.

I'm really looking forward to Mason's play next season. What a challenge he has (and our whole team) with the Zeller/Henson/McAdoo/Barnes frontcourt just down the road.

UrinalCake
04-27-2011, 12:33 PM
Mason is a heckuva student as well, highest GPA on the team.

Thanks for that tidbit of info, it's great to recognize his work in the classroom. While most fans don't see him as NBA-ready, that doesn't mean that he couldn't have gone and been a lottery pick. It was a little surprising and also refreshing that a formal announcement wasn't made that he's staying - perhaps a little Kevin Durant'ish as compared to Barnes's Lebron-style proclamation (ok, it wasn't quite that over the top but still, he certainly milked a lot more attention out of it than Mason did).

NSDukeFan
04-27-2011, 04:04 PM
An answer I heard many times was that Mason was merely the benefactor of having Kyrie to set him up. I actually don't buy that completely myself. Yes, having a lottery talented point guard will elevate your ability to score as a big man, hopefully your pg will create a lot of easy looks for you. But once you get the ball down low or in the high post you need to have the confidence to go to work.

This I feel is where Mason falls off. Confidence. If it his free throw shooting (.441%) or as yet unseen understanding of when to pump fake and when to use your athletic gifts and just rise up, there are times when he just looks lost offensively. Personally I would love to see him do most of his work down low and develop a jump hook, which with his jumping ability could be a useful weapon. I believe a high-low post offense between he and Kelly could be a devastating weapon for Duke next season and that with both Juniors, Duke is in safe hands in the front court. To put it mildly I'm all in MP2 bandwagon and feel that he is the key to Duke next season. Regardless of his offense, defensively is where he will shine. Adding 10+ points to 10+ rebounds wouldn't hurt though :D

I always love to see Ryan and Mason with high post touches and think they can both be very effective there, as I think both are very good passers, who also have the potential to score from there. Whether the coaching staff feels this will be part of the team's most efficient offensive sets will be interesting to see.
I am squarely in the "I think Mason is one of the big keys for Duke next year and I am expecting a break-out all-ACC type year" camp. Should I have put that in my sig, or should I leave that to Jason Evans and Superdave?

ACCBBallFan
04-27-2011, 08:27 PM
Thanks, watzone; good comments.

I'm really looking forward to Mason's play next season. What a challenge he has (and our whole team) with the Zeller/Henson/McAdoo/Barnes frontcourt just down the road.This isssue is not much different than last year when Duke won 2 of 3.

I would not count Barnes as a front court player. Indeed he will be a challenge and for the sake of comparison we can guess what Dukes' #1=#2 rated frosh Austin Rivers would do relative to Harrison, or perhaps DeAndre Daniels or Mike Gbinije or Alex Murphy. With the extra year of experience, Barnes would have the edge.

Back to front court though, yes McAdoo is probably a step up on Knox but essentially the same challenge Duke faced this past season when Duke won 2 of 3 times.

Zeller Henson and Knox totalled 223 minutes, 98 points and 74 rebounds.
Plumlees and Kelly totalled 214 minutes, 57 points and 65 boards.

So the UNC tallest 3 edge of 9 minutes, 41 points and 9 rebounds when averaged over 3 games is only 3 rebounds but 14 more front court points.

Knox whose totals are included averaged 13 minutes, 4 points and 3 boards and McAdoo would likely be a step on on those stats that would have to be offset by extra production from the Plumlees and Kelly (or perhaps Josh) for those 9 MPG where Kyle was the PF vs. UNC (240 possible for 3 games vs 214 for Duke's 3 guys =26 or an average of 9 MPG).

So yes, UNC has a statistical edge at PF/C, but not enough to have won more than 1 of the 3 games.

The big issue will be how to counterbalance Barnes, a lot more than Mason or Duke's other bigs matching up with Henson, Zeller and McAdoo in reserve.

The other issues are who will replace Nolan totally removing Kendall Marshall as a factor from the third game. Seth played very well versus UNC and presumably Austin Rivers will. So it is up to Andre Dawkins (in 3 games played 40 total minutes, scored 12 total points but only 1 rebound total in 3 games), Tyler Thornton (only played 7 total minutes 1 poiint 0 rebounds vs UNC in those 3 games), Quinn Cook and his fellow frosh to step up to fill the void left by Nolan.

Historically though a lot of top rated frosh on both teams have underperformed in their first season rivalry games, obviously some exceptions.

Kyle the senior did not play all that well (down 7 points from his season average 35, 17 and 7) vs UNC (averaged 40 minutes, 10 points and 7 boards vs UNC but hard to measure how much he held down Barnes (averaged 33 min, 14 points and 4 boards).

If and it is a big if, Duke could hold Barnes to 14 points and 4 boards, that is not a huge bogey for the 3 outstanding frosh be it Rivers, Gbinije, Murphy or possibly Daniels to total.

Irving of course never played vs. UNC or any ACC team. So replacing him is not an issue realtive to last year's 3 UNC games.

UNC main issue will continue to be outside shooting and Duke has a lot of talent but will miss Nolan and Kyle experience on both ends of the floor.

Mason averaged 25 MPG, 7 points and 9 boards, right on his season average of 25.6, 7.2 and 8.4.
Miles averaged 23 MPG, 7 points and 9 boards, well above his season average of 17, 4.8 and 4.9.
Ryan averaged 23 MPG, 5 points and 4 boards, slightly below his season averages of 20.1, 6.6 and 3.7
So as a trio the Duke bigs outperformed their season averages by 9 MPG (spread across 2 posiitons), scored 2 more points (again across 2 positions so e4ssentially a break even) and grabbed 5 more rebounds.

Of the 3, Ryan more than Mason (the subject of this thread) or Miles needs to help Duke offset UNC's front court advantages, but front court spread was not all that great other than in scoring which is the norm for Duke who relies much more on its guards for that.

Blocks BTW were even at a total of 10 for the 3 games by each team.

JMarley50
04-28-2011, 06:29 PM
Somebody should suggest a little drill for the brothers this off season... 1 ball, each man for himself, no shots outside of the lane, and no fouls. I'd say that would toughen them up a little more and help their inside scoring. If they got to where they could score consistently on each other with a lot of contact, the games should be easy.

Kedsy
04-28-2011, 06:32 PM
Somebody should suggest a little drill for the brothers this off season... 1 ball, each man for himself, no shots outside of the lane, and no fouls. I'd say that would toughen them up a little more and help their inside scoring. If they got to where they could score consistently on each other with a lot of contact, the games should be easy.

It would be all dunks. (As long as nobody was calling offensive fouls, either.)

JMarley50
04-28-2011, 06:36 PM
It would be all dunks. (As long as nobody was calling offensive fouls, either.)

It would be fun to watch either way! It would make a man of Marshall really quick. I wonder who would win the goal-tending battle in that one? :cool:

Greg_Newton
04-28-2011, 06:53 PM
Somebody should suggest a little drill for the brothers this off season... 1 ball, each man for himself, no shots outside of the lane, and no fouls. I'd say that would toughen them up a little more and help their inside scoring. If they got to where they could score consistently on each other with a lot of contact, the games should be easy.

Actually, I think 15 years of that drill is part of their problem. Rather than going up strong and taking contact, they tend to adjust their non-dunk shots so that, no matter what, they can get it off, even if it's a double-pump, over-the-head flip. You don't really get rewarded for going straight at the rim and taking contact in no-blood-no-foul games.

JMarley50
04-28-2011, 07:41 PM
Actually, I think 15 years of that drill is part of their problem. Rather than going up strong and taking contact, they tend to adjust their non-dunk shots so that, no matter what, they can get it off, even if it's a double-pump, over-the-head flip. You don't really get rewarded for going straight at the rim and taking contact in no-blood-no-foul games.

That's funny. I didn't think about it that way. But you may be right. In reality I just hope they spend the whole summer working on baby hooks with both hands. Miles was starting to become fairly successful with that towards the end of the year. Hopefully somebody will also mention to Mason that he doesn't have to spin into the lane every time. I got so frustrated watching him spin into the paint where there was help, when the baseline was wide open.

DukieInBrasil
04-28-2011, 07:53 PM
One must understand that newspapers constantly go for hits, so Plumlee possibly going pro was good for that. Mason is loved by NBA scouts for his potential and the coaches said that if he kept working [during hoops banquet] that he could be great. Mason is a heckuva student as well, highest GPA on the team. Mason seems to be running his own race and a lot of people will expect him to blow up this season and that is a fair expectation. I was told early on that Mason would likely return from as good a source as there is and so I never made a big deal out of the possibility of him leaving or that he returned. Duke fans are more than a little happy this took place but there is no need for thinking he is under appreciated when that is simply not the case. Mason could have gone to the league off potential this season, but another year and maybe two at Duke will not hurt his chances and will allow him to improve. Besides, how many schools can claim three brothers on a roster? That may have played a role as well. Who knows, he may stick around for four years and play with Marshall whom many think will redshirt. But I will say this, I am really glad he is back and think he can make All ACC if he works this off season.

I've thought about the question that others have raised about should Murphy red-shirt. Others thought it should be MP3. It seems to me that it could be detrimental to the 2012 team to red-shirt Marshall b/c, if MP2 jumps to the NBA after his Jr. year Duke would have no one with experience at the 5. Marshall will certainly improve even if he does red-shirt, but not as much as if he plays as much as RK did his Fr. year. Ryan could become a decent 5 but he's not been asked to play the 5 so far.

heyman25
04-28-2011, 08:05 PM
That's funny. I didn't think about it that way. But you may be right. In reality I just hope they spend the whole summer working on baby hooks with both hands. Miles was starting to become fairly successful with that towards the end of the year. Hopefully somebody will also mention to Mason that he doesn't have to spin into the lane every time. I got so frustrated watching him spin into the paint where there was help, when the baseline was wide open.

How about developing some basic post moves? That goes for all the Plumlees. Also getting better instincts for rebounding. Learning to be in the right place will improve their rebounding numbers.

Devilsfan
04-28-2011, 09:44 PM
Hey quit being so crtical. They have a coach to work on their deficiencies. I think one or two of them will have a breakout season. I wouldn't trade them for the two returners on the hill even if we could.

ricks68
04-28-2011, 09:54 PM
Hey quit being so crtical. They have a coach to work on their deficiencies. I think one or two of them will have a breakout season. I wouldn't trade them for the two returners on the hill even if we could.

Actually, I would like to emphasize that they have a great big man coach to work on their deficiencies!

ricks

UrinalCake
04-29-2011, 07:16 AM
Also getting better instincts for rebounding. Learning to be in the right place will improve their rebounding numbers.

What? Both Plumlees were great rebounders last year. For Mason, I think rebounding is the one area of his game that does NOT need improvement. And Miles was kind of overlooked but really came on strong towards the end of the season and was playing great D, including rebounding. Not sure where your assessment is coming from.

COYS
04-29-2011, 08:38 AM
What? Both Plumlees were great rebounders last year. For Mason, I think rebounding is the one area of his game that does NOT need improvement. And Miles was kind of overlooked but really came on strong towards the end of the season and was playing great D, including rebounding. Not sure where your assessment is coming from.

I agree, here. With an improved awareness of where to be and how to position himself, Mason will become one of the 5-10 best rebounders in the country. He was already close last season. I think that if his rebounding improves next year, it will mostly be due to a generally improved basketball IQ that allows him to be in position more and more frequently.

darjum
04-29-2011, 09:41 AM
What? Both Plumlees were great rebounders last year. For Mason, I think rebounding is the one area of his game that does NOT need improvement. And Miles was kind of overlooked but really came on strong towards the end of the season and was playing great D, including rebounding. Not sure where your assessment is coming from.

At this stage I feel Miles might be what Miles is, a serviceable big man who can play 15-20 minutes, who comes in with hustle, crashes the boards (maybe commits a few 'effort' fouls), gives unexpected offense from time to time and at other times looks a bit lost! Happy to eat my words if he breaks though, please feel free to prove me wrong eldest Plumlee :)

But MP2 is a whole different breed of Plumlee all together. He has the talent and should break through to be All-ACC this year. One thing I would like him to develop, which I felt Kyle Singler was the King of, is rebounding out of your area. I would watch a shot go up and regardless of if it was supposed to be his rebound or not, Kyle would find a way of getting it, or contesting it. MP2 is more athletically gifted for rebounding than Kyle and if can muster that same dog willed determinism that made Kyle special, I agree he could be one of the top rebounders in the country.

As for MP3, I hope he's got a good set of tweezers to pull the splinters from his butt with all the watching he'll be going next year from the bench :eek: But it will serve him well when he becomes..."The Last of the Plumlee's".

jimsumner
04-29-2011, 02:41 PM
At this stage I feel Miles might be what Miles is, a serviceable big man who can play 15-20 minutes, who comes in with hustle, crashes the boards (maybe commits a few 'effort' fouls), gives unexpected offense from time to time and at other times looks a bit lost! Happy to eat my words if he breaks though, please feel free to prove me wrong eldest Plumlee :)

But MP2 is a whole different breed of Plumlee all together. He has the talent and should break through to be All-ACC this year. One thing I would like him to develop, which I felt Kyle Singler was the King of, is rebounding out of your area. I would watch a shot go up and regardless of if it was supposed to be his rebound or not, Kyle would find a way of getting it, or contesting it. MP2 is more athletically gifted for rebounding than Kyle and if can muster that same dog willed determinism that made Kyle special, I agree he could be one of the top rebounders in the country.

As for MP3, I hope he's got a good set of tweezers to pull the splinters from his butt with all the watching he'll be going next year from the bench :eek: But it will serve him well when he becomes..."The Last of the Plumlee's".

Miles is an interesting case. He can absolutely dominate games in brief spans and my understanding is that he does dominate in practices. He can be overly critical of himself. He has the tools to break out and Duke has had players make a big jump as seniors--Alaa Abdelnaby, Tony Lang, Eric Meek, Chris Collins, Roshown McLeod, Chris Carrawell, Dahntay Jones, Jon Scheyer, et. al. Miles will get every opportunity to put a stranglehold on a starting job. If he can seize the day, Duke will be very, very good next season.

Mason does have a higher ceiling than his brothers. He sometimes over-relies on his length and athleticism and neglects some of the fundamentals, e.g. boxing out, moving his feet on D, spacing. But he made major strides last season and came back with the intention of continuing that progression. If he develops confidence and a reliable low-post move or two, than I can easily see first-team All-ACC on the horizon. He has a chance to be really, really good next season.

And don't forget Ryan Kelly, who can play either the 4 or the 5, either start or come off the bench, and ably play alongside either Plumlee. He's a valuable resource and I can easily see him starting at the 5 as a senior, should Mason elect to go pro after next season. No need to force-feed Marshall.

And Hairston could factor in next season.

Some questions have to be answered and lots of sweat equity has to be invested. But I feel pretty good about Duke's bigs next season.

CDu
04-29-2011, 02:47 PM
Miles is an interesting case. He can absolutely dominate games in brief spans and my understanding is that he does dominate in practices. He can be overly critical of himself. He has the tools to break out and Duke has had players make a big jump as seniors--Alaa Abdelnaby, Tony Lang, Eric Meek, Chris Collins, Roshown McLeod, Chris Carrawell, Dahntay Jones, Jon Scheyer, et. al. Miles will get every opportunity to put a stranglehold on a starting job. If he can seize the day, Duke will be very, very good next season.

Mason does have a higher ceiling than his brothers. He sometimes over-relies on his length and athleticism and neglects some of the fundamentals, e.g. boxing out, moving his feet on D, spacing. But he made major strides last season and came back with the intention of continuing that progression. If he develops confidence and a reliable low-post move or two, than I can easily see first-team All-ACC on the horizon. He has a chance to be really, really good next season.

And don't forget Ryan Kelly, who can play either the 4 or the 5, either start or come off the bench, and ably play alongside either Plumlee. He's a valuable resource and I can easily see him starting at the 5 as a senior, should Mason elect to go pro after next season. No need to force-feed Marshall.

And Hairston could factor in next season.

Some questions have to be answered and lots of sweat equity has to be invested. But I feel pretty good about Duke's bigs next season.

I think this is well said. There is a lot that can be great - if things go right (along with the requisite offseason work). There are a lot of questions, but there's reason for hope.

Mason was a much better player last year than as a freshman. So was Kelly. Hopefully both of those players continue to improve. Miles didn't really make a jump last year from his sophomore year. Confidence and court awareness would go a long way for him. Maybe he has a "light-switch" moment as a senior.

darjum
04-29-2011, 08:39 PM
Miles is an interesting case. He can absolutely dominate games in brief spans and my understanding is that he does dominate in practices. He can be overly critical of himself. He has the tools to break out and Duke has had players make a big jump as seniors--Alaa Abdelnaby, Tony Lang, Eric Meek, Chris Collins, Roshown McLeod, Chris Carrawell, Dahntay Jones, Jon Scheyer, et. al. Miles will get every opportunity to put a stranglehold on a starting job. If he can seize the day, Duke will be very, very good next season.

Mason does have a higher ceiling than his brothers. He sometimes over-relies on his length and athleticism and neglects some of the fundamentals, e.g. boxing out, moving his feet on D, spacing. But he made major strides last season and came back with the intention of continuing that progression. If he develops confidence and a reliable low-post move or two, than I can easily see first-team All-ACC on the horizon. He has a chance to be really, really good next season.

And don't forget Ryan Kelly, who can play either the 4 or the 5, either start or come off the bench, and ably play alongside either Plumlee. He's a valuable resource and I can easily see him starting at the 5 as a senior, should Mason elect to go pro after next season. No need to force-feed Marshall.

And Hairston could factor in next season.

Some questions have to be answered and lots of sweat equity has to be invested. But I feel pretty good about Duke's bigs next season.

I actually believe that Kelly will be Duke's 2nd or 3rd leading scorer next year, I feel he will be vitally important to Duke's success. Do you feel he's a starter or better served coming off the bench. I personally believe on talent alone he should start over Miles. But as you alluded to above, Miles needs confidence so he doesn't doubt himself and start a nasty spiral to begin the year. Therefore maybe starting next to his brother and allowing Kelly (who showed at the end of last year he's willing to do it) to come off the bench would give MP1 the confidence boost he needs. Duke needs MP2, MP1 and RK all working cohesively to ensure the interior defense and easy low post scoring is accounted for. Hope Josh finds a role in that rotation, I believe he could be a sneaky low post scorer and adequate rebounder.

But yes: "Some questions have to be answered and lots of sweat equity has to be invested. But I feel pretty good about Duke's bigs next season."...me too.

gep
04-30-2011, 12:04 AM
I actually believe that Kelly will be Duke's 2nd or 3rd leading scorer next year, I feel he will be vitally important to Duke's success. Do you feel he's a starter or better served coming off the bench. I personally believe on talent alone he should start over Miles. But as you alluded to above, Miles needs confidence so he doesn't doubt himself and start a nasty spiral to begin the year. Therefore maybe starting next to his brother and allowing Kelly (who showed at the end of last year he's willing to do it) to come off the bench would give MP1 the confidence boost he needs. Duke needs MP2, MP1 and RK all working cohesively to ensure the interior defense and easy low post scoring is accounted for. Hope Josh finds a role in that rotation, I believe he could be a sneaky low post scorer and adequate rebounder.

But yes: "Some questions have to be answered and lots of sweat equity has to be invested. But I feel pretty good about Duke's bigs next season."...me too.

Well... since Ryan even "looks" like Kevin McHale, I say he comes off the bench as the best 6th man next year ... :cool: And when he channels Kevin's up-and-under... watch out.

darjum
04-30-2011, 08:16 AM
Well... since Ryan even "looks" like Kevin McHale, I say he comes off the bench as the best 6th man next year ... :cool: And when he channels Kevin's up-and-under... watch out.

Maybe you're on to something...maybe? Ha, ha!

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