Recruiting cesspool

[M B Walker]

In one of this morning's front page articles, DBR chides columnist John Feinstein for referring to "the recruiting cesspool that is often the ACC," rightfully pointing out that if you consider all of the coaches past and present it's hard to find facts that would support calling their activities a "cesspool".

My own thought is that Feinstein is guilty of lazy writing, not an unsubstantiated accusation. What I think he meant to say is that recruiting in the ACC is very competitive, and that Larranaga might have difficulty competing against the likes of Coach K and Roy Williams. It's just that "recruiting cesspool" sounds so much better than "competitive recruiting environment" -- and Feinstein went for a punchy line instead of accuracy.

Could be wrong, of course, but given Feinstein's tendency toward over-dramatization from time to time in the past, it does make sense.

[MCFinARL]

In one of this morning's front page articles, DBR chides columnist John Feinstein for referring to "the recruiting cesspool that is often the ACC," rightfully pointing out that if you consider all of the coaches past and present it's hard to find facts that would support calling their activities a "cesspool".

My own thought is that Feinstein is guilty of lazy writing, not an unsubstantiated accusation. What I think he meant to say is that recruiting in the ACC is very competitive, and that Larranaga might have difficulty competing against the likes of Coach K and Roy Williams. It's just that "recruiting cesspool" sounds so much better than "competitive recruiting environment" -- and Feinstein went for a punchy line instead of accuracy.

Could be wrong, of course, but given Feinstein's tendency toward over-dramatization from time to time in the past, it does make sense.

This is a plausible theory, but really, a person who makes his living using words should be more attentive to connotation--"cesspool" is a word with a very strong connotation of dirtiness and unsavoriness (for obvious reasons). If Feinstein used the word without meaning to suggest cheating, and if it didn't occur to him that people might read it that way, then he wasn't paying enough attention.

[sagegrouse]

In one of this morning's front page articles, DBR chides columnist John Feinstein for referring to "the recruiting cesspool that is often the ACC," rightfully pointing out that if you consider all of the coaches past and present it's hard to find facts that would support calling their activities a "cesspool".

My own thought is that Feinstein is guilty of lazy writing, not an unsubstantiated accusation. What I think he meant to say is that recruiting in the ACC is very competitive, and that Larranaga might have difficulty competing against the likes of Coach K and Roy Williams. It's just that "recruiting cesspool" sounds so much better than "competitive recruiting environment" -- and Feinstein went for a punchy line instead of accuracy.

Could be wrong, of course, but given Feinstein's tendency toward over-dramatization from time to time in the past, it does make sense.

FWIW John loves athletics in the Patriot League and the CAA and at the service academices and has a well documented problem with big-time athletics. Think of his proposal to put Duke in an all-academic football league with the service academies, Vandy, Rice and Tulane. It is a fair statement that John has a dim view of the world of unlimited recruiting budgets (ahem, Duke); private jet trips for staff, teams and recruits; questionnable practices on recruiting visits; squirrelly academics; and the unseemly pursuit of 14 and 15 YOs. I think John would also agree that the ACC is not the worst.

"Cesspool?" Nah, but I am not surprised he used the term.

sagegrouse

[Biscuit King]

It's simple. The guy's a jerk, and he always has been. This is a waste of time.

The only surprise here is that he didn't manage to slip a dig at Duke Football into the column. He even managed to sideswipe the program in a memorial column to Bill Brill. That takes the cake.

[JStuart]

This is a plausible theory, but really, a person who makes his living using words should be more attentive to connotation--"cesspool" is a word with a very strong connotation of dirtiness and unsavoriness (for obvious reasons). If Feinstein used the word without meaning to suggest cheating, and if it didn't occur to him that people might read it that way, then he wasn't paying enough attention.

And, if the ACC is a cesspool, then what about UConn's and Kansas' conferences? DBR used to have a listing of NCAA players (IIRC) that showed up with better stat lines in the court systems, than on the basketball court, and it seems that these two schools are well ahead of any ACC school in that category. (and yes, I know John may not have been referring to legal difficulties, just recruiting).

[4decadedukie]

All of us have it so wrong. John simply is the brightest person ever to graduate from Duke, his insight regarding intercollegiate athletics – no, it probably is sports in general – is unsurpassed, the University’s leadership has been repeatedly dense and recalcitrant by simply not asking his opinions and then unfailingly adhering to his recommendations, and he never permits his biases to interfere with journalistic integrity and impartiality.

Major conference basketball recruiting certainly has problems; however, to single out the ACC – in comparison to the Big East, the Big 12, the SEC and so forth – is plainly ludicrous.

[kong123]

All of us have it so wrong. John simply is the brightest person ever to graduate from Duke, his insight regarding intercollegiate athletics – no, it probably is sports in general – is unsurpassed, the University’s leadership has been repeatedly dense and recalcitrant by simply not asking his opinions and then unfailingly adhering to his recommendations, and he never permits his biases to interfere with journalistic integrity and impartiality.

Major conference basketball recruiting certainly has problems; however, to single out the ACC – in comparison to the Big East, the Big 12, the SEC and so forth – is plainly ludicrous.


Obviously a poor choice of words, but if he did choose his words correctly and his idea was to say that recruiting in the big time ACC is much more difficult than it was in the CAA, then I get his point. Depends on how much you want to read into it. I do not read sportswriters often, so I know very little about him. What I can see is many here have a strong negative opinion of him. Writers often do this to attract as much negative attention as they do positive attention. In this case, if this was his intention, it worked. More people will read his article now than they would have if it hadn't been mentioned here.

[slower]

Obviously a poor choice of words, but if he did choose his words correctly and his idea was to say that recruiting in the big time ACC is much more difficult than it was in the CAA, then I get his point. Depends on how much you want to read into it. I do not read sportswriters often, so I know very little about him. What I can see is many here have a strong negative opinion of him. Writers often do this to attract as much negative attention as they do positive attention. In this case, if this was his intention, it worked. More people will read his article now than they would have if it hadn't been mentioned here.

At this point in his career, John probably doesn't need to consciously "go negative" to attract readers. He is who he is.

[Nugget]

I took Feinstein's use of the term "cesspool" not to mean an insinuation that the coaches/schools in the ACC cheat, but rather to refer more broadly to the sleazy/slimy feeling one gets when exposed to all big-time recruiting.

Even when things are done above-board and with "good kids," there is something a bit off-putting about watching what schools like Duke and Carolina have to go through to land players like Rivers and McAdoo, who themselves are so widely exposed and travelled from being on the spring and summer AAU Circuits, and the Christmas-time high school tournaments televised on ESPN and then the high school end-of-season tournaments that also get televised, culminating with more televised events like the post-season all star games and the Nike Hoop Summit. Those guys have been on tv as high schoolers as much or more than the VCU and Butler players who made the Final Four.

[burns15]

If Feinstein rips duke so much, how is he close with K? I saw them sitting together at my high school over Christmas watching sulaimon play and they had a conversation the whole time. It was K, Wojo, Nate, and Feinstein sitting together

[sagegrouse]

If Feinstein rips duke so much, how is he close with K? I saw them sitting together at my high school over Christmas watching sulaimon play and they had a conversation the whole time. It was K, Wojo, Nate, and Feinstein sitting together

John was recently quoted as saying, in effect, if you want me to believe something bad about someone, it better not be about Gary Williams, Coach K, [golfer] Paul Goydos, or some else whom I forget.

I mean, K got him the entree to write a book about Knight, Season on the Brink, which launched his entire career, and led to a rupture between the two silent K's.

John was also with K at the Denny's in Atlanta after the blowout loss to UVa in the 1983 ACC tournament. Someone said, "Here's to forgetting tonight," and K responded, "Here's to never forgetting tonight." Duke has only rarely lost to Virginia since that game.

sagegrouse

[duke79]

All of us have it so wrong. John simply is the brightest person ever to graduate from Duke, his insight regarding intercollegiate athletics – no, it probably is sports in general – is unsurpassed, the University’s leadership has been repeatedly dense and recalcitrant by simply not asking his opinions and then unfailingly adhering to his recommendations, and he never permits his biases to interfere with journalistic integrity and impartiality.

Major conference basketball recruiting certainly has problems; however, to single out the ACC – in comparison to the Big East, the Big 12, the SEC and so forth – is plainly ludicrous.

LOL, well said. John does not lack for ego. Although I hate to admit he may be right, I do think that the state of Division I basketball and football recruiting, excepting a few schools (hopefully including Duke) might resemble a "cesspool" of corruption and other illegal and unethical activities. I keep thinking that there will be a huge scandel and, finally the NCAA and maybe the Feds will then step in and try to clean up the worst abuses. I may be too idealistic, given the huge amounts of money involved in big-time college sports these days.

[johnb]

Cesspools are messy and smelly, but they don't inevitably break laws. If he wanted to say breaking rules, he would have said it. I agree with the poster who said Feinstein finds modern recruiting to be distasteful, that very few conferences do it acceptably, and that there is no top tier conference--including the ACC--that does it without getting people at least a little smelly. While I wouldn't be as disparaging as he is, he does have a point. It is a bit unseemly for grown men to fly around the country and watch high school games and beg 16 year olds to come to campus, and it's even more awkward when those same grown men are also rich and famous. And that is even without guaranteeing cash, overly helpful tutors, and overly solicitous coeds, any of which would shift it out of the simple cesspool and into something even more tawdry.

[Blue in the Face]

I took Feinstein's use of the term "cesspool" not to mean an insinuation that the coaches/schools in the ACC cheat, but rather to refer more broadly to the sleazy/slimy feeling one gets when exposed to all big-time recruiting.

Even when things are done above-board and with "good kids," there is something a bit off-putting about watching what schools like Duke and Carolina have to go through to land players like Rivers and McAdoo, who themselves are so widely exposed and travelled from being on the spring and summer AAU Circuits, and the Christmas-time high school tournaments televised on ESPN and then the high school end-of-season tournaments that also get televised, culminating with more televised events like the post-season all star games and the Nike Hoop Summit. Those guys have been on tv as high schoolers as much or more than the VCU and Butler players who made the Final Four.
That's exactly how I took it as well. Though I'm not sure why it would be necessary to specify the ACC, as opposed to BCS conferences or all of Division I.

[roywhite]

It's simple. The guy's a jerk, and he always has been. This is a waste of time.

The only surprise here is that he didn't manage to slip a dig at Duke Football into the column. He even managed to sideswipe the program in a memorial column to Bill Brill. That takes the cake.

Another vote for this interpretation.

Some people deserve the benefit of the doubt, but John lost that 5 years ago with the Lax scandal and his hasty and wrong judgments.

[davekay1971]

LOL, well said. John does not lack for ego. Although I hate to admit he may be right, I do think that the state of Division I basketball and football recruiting, excepting a few schools (hopefully including Duke) might resemble a "cesspool" of corruption and other illegal and unethical activities. I keep thinking that there will be a huge scandel and, finally the NCAA and maybe the Feds will then step in and try to clean up the worst abuses. I may be too idealistic, given the huge amounts of money involved in big-time college sports these days.

I'm thinking there's got to be a good joke in there somewhere. Question: What did the one cesspool say to the other cesspool? Answer:....

[Mike Corey]

If Mr. Feinstein thinks that ACC recruiting is a cesspool, I'd love to hear the word or words he'd assign to the SEC's practices.

[Devilsfan]

Ego? I think not! That's a defense mechanism, imo probably for his lack of personaliy and people skills. I think he's just an introvert that let's his true feelings out in his shock writing. He seems like the Howard Stern of script.