Big East Realignment

[johnb]

We've discussed this before, but do people have suggestions that could lift the Big East out of the doldrums.

I could imagine a scenario where they add 4 southern schools that have football teams to go along with tcu. possibilities include Memphis, smu, tulane, and tulsa, as well as Georgia tech and Maryland. none of those is as good a fit as the teams they lost to the acc, but 12 football teams allow for a conference championship and tv contract. admittedly, none of those possible teams is much of a national draw or football power, but it can be nice to have some doormats If they're aiming to have a team competing for the bcs championship. obviously, that makes the bball schedule almost impossible, but at least the handful of southern teams could always play each other twice and then play a few of the east coast teams once and then get beaten in their huge tournament.

[Duvall]

We've discussed this before, but do people have suggestions that could lift the Big East out of the doldrums.

I could imagine a scenario where they add 4 southern schools that have football teams to go along with tcu. possibilities include Memphis, smu, tulane, and tulsa, as well as Georgia tech and Maryland.

I'm pretty sure Georgia Tech and Maryland like money too much to move to the Big East.

[sagegrouse]

We've discussed this before, but do people have suggestions that could lift the Big East out of the doldrums.

I could imagine a scenario where they add 4 southern schools that have football teams to go along with tcu. possibilities include Memphis, smu, tulane, and tulsa, as well as Georgia tech and Maryland. none of those is as good a fit as the teams they lost to the acc, but 12 football teams allow for a conference championship and tv contract. .

I don't think Georgia Tech and Maryland are candidates for the Big East. For example, there was the long line of Big East teams that couldn't wait to join the ACC: Miami, Virginia Tech, BC -- who were the three best football teams in the conference. And Syracuse was salivating to be invited but got edged out by VPI, thanks to dunderhead plays by the Chancellor of UNC and the President of Duke (Nan). And, of course, one bent finger in the direction of WVa, and they would sign on in a trice (whatever that means).

Miami President Donna Shalala was forthright about its choice: (paraphrase) "The ACC is a real conference, where all the revenues are evenly split. The Big East was more of a federation, where every team got a different amount depending on its circumstances. Moreover, we see the ACC as our peer group from an academic perspective." (I believe from other sources that she was referring to UNC, UVa, Georgia Tech, Duke and Wake.)

sagegrouse
'For my annual review of the dunderhead presidents: UNC and Duke were opposed to expansion. Therefore, by the 75% rule, the other seven members, who supported expansion to 12 teams, had to agree on a plan for it to take effect. But if Duke and UNC were forced to accept expansion, they preferred Syracuse, BC and Miami. But, through stupidity, they got Virginia Tech instead. As a matter of state politics, UVa had to support Virginia Tech for membership, although it was a close call between that decision and ritual harikiri on The Mall in front of The Rotunda. Duke and UNC refused to vote for the second-best solution and, therefore, got their worst nightmare. I suppose decision theory is not high on the reading list for university presidents, but John Nash got a Nobel Prize for reasoning out such complex situations. And, no, it is not an exercise of high principle to get your worst outcome'

[uh_no]

We've discussed this before, but do people have suggestions that could lift the Big East out of the doldrums.

I could imagine a scenario where they add 4 southern schools that have football teams to go along with tcu. possibilities include Memphis, smu, tulane, and tulsa, as well as Georgia tech and Maryland. none of those is as good a fit as the teams they lost to the acc, but 12 football teams allow for a conference championship and tv contract. admittedly, none of those possible teams is much of a national draw or football power, but it can be nice to have some doormats If they're aiming to have a team competing for the bcs championship. obviously, that makes the bball schedule almost impossible, but at least the handful of southern teams could always play each other twice and then play a few of the east coast teams once and then get beaten in their huge tournament.

They now have 9 football schools and will have 10 once villanova joins. I highly doubt they'd add any more teams.

[wilko]

The way I interpreted the Big East Article on the front page was that the BE might split based on revenue sharing from a diminished TV contract. Adding more teams isn't going to fix the prob or did I miss something...

Hypothetically, adding a GTech or Md isnt going to give them THAT much of a bump in contract money is it? It may be a deferent story if Duke and UNC were courting the BE...

I thought it MUCH more likely that the BE breaks up.

Now, while I was never an fan of expansion for Football reasons to "Artificially" prop it up for respectability and marketshare... I am a huge fan focusing on core competencies.

I would be in favor of adding a few BE schools to enhance basketball. GTown, Syc, ND, UConn as top 4 choices then in no particular order SJU, WV, L'ville as 2ndary considerations...

If there is a BB game on the East Coast worth watching, it rolls thru this conf. would be my position. To heck with an out of conference schedule. Add them and return to the round robin. We wouldn't NEED other games in that case.

While I have painfully come to the conclusion that BB is a 2nd tier sport compared to FB's revenue generating power... no reason we cant reposition and become the best at what we do! Basketball.

[AtlDuke72]

[QUOTE=johnb;500597]
I could imagine a scenario where they add 4 southern schools that have football teams to go along with tcu. possibilities include Memphis, smu, tulane, and tulsa, as well as Georgia tech and Maryland. . .

Georgia Tech is a southern school with all of its tradition tied in with other southern schools. There is no scenario under which it would leave the ACC to join the Big East .

[fitimi1]

You can not pick up a copy of the Orlando Sentinel without reading a column urging the Big East to consider UCF (University of Central Florida), one of the largest schools in the country. It had both its football and basketball teams ranked in the Top 25 at some point in 2010/2011.

UCF would immediately join if invited.

[Jim3k]

You can not pick up a copy of the Orlando Sentinel without reading a column urging the Big East to consider UCF (University of Central Florida), one of the largest schools in the country. It had both its football and basketball teams ranked in the Top 25 at some point in 2010/2011.

UCF would immediately join if invited.

Why would the BE choose a directional school? Just bad marketing IMO. UCF would need to change its name. I've got no suggestions.

[Dev11]

UCF would need to change its name. I've got no suggestions.

Start calling it University of Orlando and it fits right in with the Big East (Syracuse, Louisville, Pittsburgh, Providence, Georgetown sort of). Orlando would also be good to associate it with the NBA.

[OldPhiKap]

Start calling it University of Orlando and it fits right in with the Big East (Syracuse, Louisville, Pittsburgh, Providence, Georgetown sort of). Orlando would also be good to associate it with the NBA.

They could get a good tie-in with Disney, too. Maybe call themselves the Fighting Princesses.

[94duke]

Why would the BE choose a directional school? Just bad marketing IMO. UCF would need to change its name. I've got no suggestions.

You mean like USF...
http://www.bigeast.org/AbouttheBIGEAST/MemberSchools/USF.aspx

[A-Tex Devil]

They now have 9 football schools and will have 10 once villanova joins. I highly doubt they'd add any more teams.

Is Villanova going to join? From what I've read, this is still a contentious topic due to the size of their stadium (a HUGE issue with respect to BCS conferences re: gate $$). My understanding is that Pitt and Rutgers, among others, are really fighting this. The only option for Villanova would be to play in the Eagles stadium, but that sounds like a pretty bad idea.

UCONN built their facility then got promoted, if I recall. I could see 'Nova doing the same on a smaller scale (maybe a WW type stadium). But I don't think 'Nova football to the Big East imminently is a done deal unless I missed some news (which is highly possible).

[uh_no]

Is Villanova going to join? From what I've read, this is still a contentious topic due to the size of their stadium (a HUGE issue with respect to BCS conferences re: gate $$). My understanding is that Pitt and Rutgers, among others, are really fighting this. The only option for Villanova would be to play in the Eagles stadium, but that sounds like a pretty bad idea.

UCONN built their facility then got promoted, if I recall. I could see 'Nova doing the same on a smaller scale (maybe a WW type stadium). But I don't think 'Nova football to the Big East imminently is a done deal unless I missed some news (which is highly possible).

You may be right. Either way, I don't see the Big east falling apart imminently either. People have been saying for 10 years now that there will be a football/basketball split, and it has yet to happen.

[A-Tex Devil]

You may be right. Either way, I don't see the Big east falling apart imminently either. People have been saying for 10 years now that there will be a football/basketball split, and it has yet to happen.

I agree that the Big East is fine. . . in basketball. I think their BCS hopes in football are in some trouble though with the emergence of the Mountain West. One really key game is the TCU/Boise St. game that got moved to Boise (out of nothing but spite for TCU leaving and gaming the BCS system).

The MWC gets to count results from Boise State and TCU for the BCS evaluation period that ends in 2011 (2008-11). But for the next period, which runs from 2010 to 2013, the MWC gets Boise State’s results and TCU’s results carry over to the Big East. So by moving that game to Boise, it helps the MWC in both evaluation periods. Needless to say, the Big East will be rooting hard for TCU, as that game will have some repercussions on season end rankings.

Losing BYU and TCU is going to hurt the MWC, but the Big East was bad last year, and has been inferior to the MWC for 2-3 years running. I think it's more likely that the MWC gets in and the Big East keeps its bid, but if the Big East can't get a ranked team next year, there will be real issues. And 'Nova isn't going to fix them.

[uh_no]

I agree that the Big East is fine. . . in basketball. I think their BCS hopes in football are in some trouble though with the emergence of the Mountain West. One really key game is the TCU/Boise St. game that got moved to Boise (out of nothing but spite for TCU leaving and gaming the BCS system).

The MWC gets to count results from Boise State and TCU for the BCS evaluation period that ends in 2011 (2008-11). But for the next period, which runs from 2010 to 2013, the MWC gets Boise State’s results and TCU’s results carry over to the Big East. So by moving that game to Boise, it helps the MWC in both evaluation periods. Needless to say, the Big East will be rooting hard for TCU, as that game will have some repercussions on season end rankings.

Losing BYU and TCU is going to hurt the MWC, but the Big East was bad last year, and has been inferior to the MWC for 2-3 years running. I think it's more likely that the MWC gets in and the Big East keeps its bid, but if the Big East can't get a ranked team next year, there will be real issues. And 'Nova isn't going to fix them.

But the BCS is good for the sport right?

[A-Tex Devil]

But the BCS is good for the sport right?

Nope, but it's what we have, and what we'll have for a while unless the Fiesta Bowl is the first domino. Frankly, I think the BCS has been itching to pull out of Arizona and have a game in Jerryworld, and this may give them the excuse to do it.

BCS sucks, but football is what generates TV money, and TV money (via subsrciber fees, not actual viewers) rules all in college athletics. I get why the Big East is nervous considering the numbers getting thrown its way so far.

[Jim3k]

You mean like USF...
http://www.bigeast.org/AbouttheBIGEAST/MemberSchools/USF.aspx

For someone like me, located in California's Bay Area, USF stands for the University of San Francisco Dons.

[OK, I get it...but they are still directional schools.]

[Acymetric]

For someone like me, located in California's Bay Area, USF stands for the University of San Francisco Dons.

[OK, I get it...but they are still directional schools.]

Northwestern is a directional school...

[hurleyfor3]

Northwestern is a directional school...

So are both of the USCs. And, for that matter, both of the UNCs.

[OldPhiKap]

Northwestern is a directional school...

Whereas Slippery Rock is a destination school.

[Jim3k]

Northwestern is a directional school...

Oh no! Northwestern is a historical school in what was once America's Northwest Territory--founded in 1850 near the crude outpost of Chicago. It is named for a territory involving Manifest Destiny... Plus, the University of North Carolina is, in fact, named after a state.

However, I am in full agreement that the University of South Carolina and the University of Southern California are directional schools. They should rename themselves immediately. South Carolina should become Pimento University and Southern California should become Without the Pimento University.

So there! <stamping foot, pouting>

[sagegrouse]

However, I am in full agreement that the University of South Carolina and the University of Southern California are directional schools. They should rename themselves immediately. South Carolina should become Pimento University and Southern California should become Without the Pimento University.

So there! <stamping foot, pouting>

Jim. Jim. The two schools are already known, respectively, as the Cocks and the Trojans. Why would you levy further punishment?

sagegrouse