Baseball Legends Questions

[JasonEvans]

Who will finish with more career wins, Greg Maddux (340 at age 41) or Roger Clemens (350 at age 44)? Can someone argue that Maddux, not Clemens, is the greatest pitcher of the past 25 years?

How many career home runs will Barry Bonds finish with (751 right now)?

Will A-Rod (490+ homeruns at age 31) catch Bonds someday?

Will Griffey (585 HR at age 37) reach 700 homers someday?

Should Griffey wear a Mariners (11 seasons) or Reds (8+ seasons) hat into the Hall of Fame? What about Maddux (Cubs 9 years, Braves 11 years)? What about Clemens (BoSox 13, NYY 6+)?

You need 3 outs in the bottom of the 9th-- Rivera, Hoffman, Eckersley, or Wagner?

-Jason "answer these and then we can come up with some more" Evans

[mr. synellinden]

Who will finish with more career wins, Greg Maddux (340 at age 41) or Roger Clemens (350 at age 44)? Can someone argue that Maddux, not Clemens, is the greatest pitcher of the past 25 years?

How many career home runs will Barry Bonds finish with (751 right now)?

Will A-Rod (490+ homeruns at age 31) catch Bonds someday?

Will Griffey (585 HR at age 37) reach 700 homers someday?

Should Griffey wear a Mariners (11 seasons) or Reds (8+ seasons) hat into the Hall of Fame? What about Maddux (Cubs 9 years, Braves 11 years)? What about Clemens (BoSox 13, NYY 6+)?

You need 3 outs in the bottom of the 9th-- Rivera, Hoffman, Eckersley, or Wagner?

-Jason "answer these and then we can come up with some more" Evans

All fun questions - I'll take a shot.

I think this is Clemens's last year and he'll finish with around 357 wins. Based on what he's done so far this year, I think Maddux has at least one more season left in him and possibly more. I think the chance to be part of rotation with Young and Peavy will keep him motivated and I see him getting to 360 and maybe 370 wins. As far as arguing who is the greatest pitcher of the last 25 years, I won't take that on because I see arguments both ways but what I can say is that I am only reasonably certain that one of them hasn't been on the juice during his career.

I also think this is Bonds's last year and I think he will end the season with 764.

Barring injuries, I think ARod will hit 800 home runs. However, keep in mind that 6 years ago when Griffey was 31, we were saying the same thing.

Griffey should pass 600 this year and I could see him playing three more years (health permitting) and I say yes - he will hit 700. That's when the what if game will start about how many he would have hit if he didn't lose 3+ seasons to injuries.

Griffey - Mariners cap, Maddux - Braves cap, Clemens - Red Sox. These are all instinct responses and that's how I think you answer the question. When you think of a player, what is the team that you first associate him with. I think Griffey and Maddux are easy ones because those are the teams with which they spent the most time and were at their peak. Clemens is a tougher one because he has achieved success/greatness with every team he's played for.

Finally, I go with Rivera in a heartbeat because he did it so many times in the post-season when the pressure is greatest. If we are talking about each pitcher at the point of greatest dominance in their respective careers, I MIGHT consider the Eck. He was unhittable for a few seasons - unless you were hitting on one leg.

[JasonEvans]

As an aside, has anyone checked out Barry Bonds' on-base percentage this season? He is getting a ridiculous number of walks and is batting above .300 so his OB% is easily over. 500. He dwarfs anyone else in the game in this hugely important stat (far more important than silly batting average). Frankly, if he had not been voted onto the All-Star team, I'd have considered him almost a lock to make it as a reserve.

-Jason "I know he juiced, but he's still a great player even off the juice" Evans

[tombrady]

Who will finish with more career wins, Greg Maddux (340 at age 41) or Roger Clemens (350 at age 44)? Can someone argue that Maddux, not Clemens, is the greatest pitcher of the past 25 years?


I see this being Roger's last year, esp. with all the cr@p he gets for "holding teams hostage" and only pitching the second half of the season (essentially). I figure he'll end up somewhere around 357 this year, Maddux at 347. I see Maddux pitching another year easily, given that he's been willing to go to various clubs for 1 year deals, and his pitching is a lot less reliant on physique than Roger's (power vs. finesse). I think Maddux will end up withe more wins.

That said, Clemens is the best pitcher of the last 25 years (7 Cy's, spread over 18(!) years), hands down. He's in the top 3 pitchers ever, while Maddux (4 Cy's, 4 years in a row) is somewhere in the top 10 perhaps.



How many career home runs will Barry Bonds finish with (751 right now)?


Who the f knows with Barry. He'll probably end up at around 768 or so this year. He might hang it up, but he hasn't really given that indication. Heck, the A's or some other AL team might offer him a DH spot, allowing him to just go up and hit for another couple years, which he loves to do. My best guess? He'll hang it up after this year -- he's got nothing left to prove (besides try to win a WS...)



Will A-Rod (490+ homeruns at age 31) catch Bonds someday?


Yes. He'll have 800+.




Will Griffey (585 HR at age 37) reach 700 homers someday?


No. Assume he gets to 600 this year. Thats another 100 homers after the age of 38, which would probably take him 4 years (to be safe). I don't see him playing till he's 41.



Should Griffey wear a Mariners (11 seasons) or Reds (8+ seasons) hat into the Hall of Fame? What about Maddux (Cubs 9 years, Braves 11 years)? What about Clemens (BoSox 13, NYY 6+)?


Mariners. He became the face of baseball there in the 90s, before his string of injuries. His Reds career has been underwhelming (compared to the expectation he set early in his career.) Maddux, Braves. All those division championships. Clemens, Boston (as much as it pains me to say it). He'll have spent more than half is career there, and again, this is where he became a superstar. Then, he started doing steroids in '96 when he went to Toronto, and prolonged his career and got even better, the likes of which we've never seen before. Just kidding. Maybe. (He was on the Grimsley affidavit...)




You need 3 outs in the bottom of the 9th-- Rivera, Hoffman, Eckersley, or Wagner?


Rivera. Cutter. Best closer ever for 10+ years. Everyone talks about Jeter, Williams, Posada, etc., but Rivera was the reason they won 4 WS and were great for so long. They played 9 inning games, everyone else only had 8 to score.

[TillyGalore]

What about Clemens (BoSox 13, NYY 6+)?

While you all make valid arguments for Clemens wearing a Red Sox hat in the HOF, I'm not so sure he will as he seemed to really dislike them when he left. Though I'm not a BoSox fan I was living in (ok outside) Beantown when he left and even I was glad to see him go. I think he'll choose to wear the Yankee (eewwww) hat.

Just my two cents.

As an aside; was so glad he didn't get his 350th against my O's, and couldn't even strike one of them out. :) :) :)

[dkbaseball]

Can someone argue that Maddux, not Clemens, is the greatest pitcher of the past 25 years?





Let me weigh in on Maddog. Sorry I don't have the link, but about three years ago I wandered on to a website that made a statistical case, taking a lot of different numbers into consideration, that he was the greatest pitcher not just of the past 25 years, but of all time. These past three years have been pretty mediocre, but I've got to think his statistical case is still strong, and definitely comparable to Clemens'. Roger's big edge is in having three more Cy Youngs.

Certainly, as a craftsman on the mound, Maddog may never have had an equal. I'm not going to call him an overachiever simply because he isn't a power pitcher. The movement he gets on his fastball and his control are freakish natural gifts. And actually, he has a nasty 12-6 curveball, but he hardly ever uses it because he doesn't need to. Location, changing speeds, and side to side movement are sufficient. Really, he takes more weapons to the mound than Clemens, who basically has gotten by on a power fastball, splitter, great work ethic and world class mean streak. But in addition to his natural gifts, Maddux has had an ability to carve up hitters like no one else. No one is more fun to watch from right behind home plate, especially for an ex-pitcher.

He definitely goes into the Hall as a Brave. How great would it be to see him go in at the same time with Glavine and Smoltz, even for a non-Braves fan? All three are already first ballot guys, IMO. Without question, the best three-pitcher group to stay together for any significant length of time (10 years -- amazing) in the history of baseball.

On the reliever question, I'll boil it down to who has had the nastiest out pitch and take Rivera's cutter over Wagner's power fastball, Hoffman's change and Eck's.... what? A slurve maybe?

[JasonEvans]

While you all make valid arguments for Clemens wearing a Red Sox hat in the HOF, I'm not so sure he will as he seemed to really dislike them when he left. Though I'm not a BoSox fan I was living in (ok outside) Beantown when he left and even I was glad to see him go. I think he'll choose to wear the Yankee (eewwww) hat.

Just my two cents.

As an aside; was so glad he didn't get his 350th against my O's, and couldn't even strike one of them out. :) :) :)

Players do not get to choose what hat they wear in the Hall. The Hall picks for them precisely because some players leave teams on bad terms.

One hat that may be tough to call right now would be A-Rod. 7 years in Seattle, 3 in Texas, 4 (so far) in New York. His massive contract he signed with the Rangers (and continues with the Yankees) is up in 2010, I think. He would have been in NY 7 seasons at that point. If he went back to Seattle then (not likely, I know) then there would be a very good chance he could enter the Hall as a Mariner.

Here's a fun trivia question-- name the only former Mariner to be in the Hall of Fame?

-Jason "the hat game can be fun" Evans

[TillyGalore]

Who decides what team logo will be used on Hall of Fame plaques?

The choice of which team’s logo appears on a player’s plaque is the Museum's decision, though we always consider the wishes of an inductee. As a history Museum, it's important that the logo be emblematic of the historical accomplishments of that player's career. A player's election to the Hall of Fame is a career achievement, and as such, every team for whom he played is listed on the plaque; however, the logo selection is based on where that player makes his most indelible mark.

The above is from the HOF website.

I thought players could choose which team logo would appear on the hat (I could swear I read that when Eddie Murray was inducted into the HOF he chose the O's hat versus the Indians).

[Mal]

1. Maddux. I think deep down he hates Clemens and wants the pleasure of finishing with more W's, so he'll pitch as long as he needs to (and will NEVER lower himself to pitching half a season). Are my personal feelings too clearly projected there?
2. 769
3. Yes
4. Yes
5. M's, Braves, Red Sox
6. Rivera. You didn't even need to make that one multiple choice!

There is virtually no statistical case for Maddux over Clemens. ERAs are virtually identical, but Clemens has been in the AL. WHIP is the same story. Clemens' ERA+ is better, he's won more games with a higher win %, has more Ks, more complete games, and more shutouts. Looked at over the span of their years, there's no question Clemens has the better career. He's the greatest pitcher of the last at least 50 years.

I see only three metrics in which Maddux wins:

1. Gold Gloves (like that matters in this conversation).

2. Appearing to be a likeable human being who has some level of control over his ego and will never be linked to any steroid controversy.

3. Peak performance. At his peak ('92-'98), Maddux had an ERA over a 7 year stretch of around 2.10. He had two consecutive years with an ERA under 1.65. That's outlandish. Back in '94 and '95, regardless of how many people he did or didn't strike out, Greg Maddux was very close to the perfect pitcher. He could hit any spot at any time with any pitch. Watching him mow through lineups was like watching a video game.

Meanwhile, Clemens has chugged along at a level of consistent greatness, but only 3 times in his career has his ERA approached or beaten 2.10, much less averaging it over 7 consecutive seasons.

Incidentally, why is it that the "greatest of all time" conversation only extends to hitters? We all know Ruth, Mays and Aaron are almost universally considered the three best all-around players of all time (no comment on Bonds here), and most half way serious fans know the arguments for each of them. But how come we never have those arguments between Christy Mathewson, Grover Cleveland Alexander, and Cy Young? How does Clemens compare with them? Is it just because the nature of what a starting pitcher is expected to do is so different now than it was 50 years ago? Is it that gap, with no one undisputed all-timer from the 1950's and '60s (Spahn, Koufax, Gibson) to bridge the gap between Steve Carlton and Walter Johnson, is the problem?

Hurray for pitchers! Let's hear more pitcher chatter.

dkbaseball, I know you were just talking about the Braves staff, but we shouldn't forget that during a good bit of that time, Glavine, Pedro and The Unit were all hitting their peaks. So, in the late '90s we had Roger Clemens, Pedro Martinez, Randy Johnson, John Smoltz, Greg Maddux and Tom Glavine all pitching in their prime at the same time. I certainly didn't realize then how blessed the game was with great pitchers at the time, because all anyone could talk about was homeruns and rising scores.

Jason - Gaylord Perry?

[JasonEvans]

In response to question about only HOFer who played for Mariners--


Gaylord Perry?

Mad props-- did you look that up or did you know it?

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Who will finish with more career wins, Greg Maddux (340 at age 41) or Roger Clemens (350 at age 44)? Can someone argue that Maddux, not Clemens, is the greatest pitcher of the past 25 years?

How many career home runs will Barry Bonds finish with (751 right now)?

Will A-Rod (490+ homeruns at age 31) catch Bonds someday?

Will Griffey (585 HR at age 37) reach 700 homers someday?

Should Griffey wear a Mariners (11 seasons) or Reds (8+ seasons) hat into the Hall of Fame? What about Maddux (Cubs 9 years, Braves 11 years)? What about Clemens (BoSox 13, NYY 6+)?

You need 3 outs in the bottom of the 9th-- Rivera, Hoffman, Eckersley, or Wagner?

-Jason "answer these and then we can come up with some more" Evans

1. Maddux will finish with more wins. I'll take Clemens over Maddux by a whisker as the better pitcher, but hey, I'll take either one on my team and am glad the Yanks have Roger again this season. Roger goes in with a Yankee cap on, Greg with a Brave cap.

2. 787. I think he plays next year.

3. Yes, ARod will catch and pass Bonds, IF he stays healthy.

4. Probably. Again, Griffey needs to regain his health for several seasons. He will wear a Mariner cap.

5. Mo. No mo' need be said. :D

[Hector Vector]

Jason,

Do you realize one year Barry had an ob% over .600. .600! .600 is a great slugging percentage. 232 walks that year. 232 walks!

They are like cartoon stats.

[Bostondevil]

You need 3 outs in the bottom of the 9th-- Rivera, Hoffman, Eckersley, or Wagner?


If I need them tonight, I'll take Papelbon. Then Okajima. Then Rivera.

If we're talking some mythical time when they are all available to me in their primes, I'll take Rivera.

You know, you've got to knock Clemens in one category for his career, coming through in the clutch. If Grady Little had taken Pedro out, would New York have wanted Clemens back this year?

[OZZIE4DUKE]

You know, you've got to knock Clemens in one category for his career, coming through in the clutch. If Grady Little had taken Pedro out, would New York have wanted Clemens back this year?

Yup!

As to Grady Little - What could have been -- was. Just like 2004. You take the good with the bad. That's why they play the game.

[dkbaseball]

no one undisputed all-timer from the 1950's and '60s (Spahn, Koufax, Gibson) to bridge the gap between Steve Carlton and Walter Johnson,

Sorry, Mal, you're too young to have cred. on this issue. Ask your Dad about what Koufax did to the Twins in the '65 World Series. There's a reason he was the only pitcher selected to ESPN's list of the 50 greatest athletes of the 20th century -- it's that there are still plenty of people around who saw him pitch. Maddux's prime was incredible, but Koufax from '61-'66 was even more dominant, doing it with a completely different approach -- pure raw stuff that was about the best ever. Consistent high 90s fastball and maybe the sharpest 12-6 curveball ever thrown, both delivered straight over the top with a steep downward trajectory. All but unhittable, but not something a human body can do for longer than about ten years.

I'm trying to think of another staff besides the Braves that had three Hall-of Famers on it, and all I'm coming up with is the '66 Dodgers -- Koufax, Drysdale and Sutton. But they were together only that year, which gives you some idea of how remarkable the tenure of the Braves trio was.

Super-hard trivia question -- what former Duke baseball player had a father of the same name who is in the Hall of Fame as a player?

[tombrady]

One hat that may be tough to call right now would be A-Rod. 7 years in Seattle, 3 in Texas, 4 (so far) in New York. His massive contract he signed with the Rangers (and continues with the Yankees) is up in 2010, I think. He would have been in NY 7 seasons at that point.



ARod is leaving NY after this season. Or at least opting out of his contract. He will get a larger deal on the market as a free agent, and Cashman has all ready said he will not sign ARod to an extension to get him to stay. Early speculation has ARod going to the Angels or Cubs (or Red Sox, who have $12M in Schilling, $9M in Clement and $9M in Lowell coming off the books at the end of this year -- $30M, more than enough to sign ARod)

Ozzie, enjoy an ARod - Ortiz - Manny 3-4-5.

[Mal]

I would never intentionally dis on Koufax, so I hope I didn't give that impression. As a Twins fan, even though I wasn't alive in 1965, I'm all too aware of his exploits in that World Series :^)

My impression, though, is that Koufax doesn't get named in every "greatest pitcher ever" debates, simply because of that short blossoming of dominance. I can't argue that his brilliance from '62-'66 could ever be topped, but for his career he only won like 165 games, if I recall. That just doesn't hold a candle to Cy Young and co. You could be right, though, that my impression is tainted by the fact that generally, the debate of which I speak is not being held amongst people who were serious baseball fans in the mid-1960's. I still wonder, though, why no one engages in much real comparison between the relative "greatness" of pitchers. I guess pitching's just not as fun to talk about as homeruns.

No idea on your trivia question.

Jason, I actually knew that one. I was a baseball card collector as a kid, and for some reason I've always remembered this one: http://blujay.com/item/1983-Topps-463-Gaylord-Perry-Seattle-Mariners-HOF-25020105-1671174

Probably memorable because Perry looked like he was about 65 in his final few seasons. Plus the Mariners uniforms were so awful at the time.

[hurleyfor3]

Super-hard trivia question -- what former Duke baseball player had a father of the same name who is in the Hall of Fame as a player?

Cornelius McGillicuddy, Jr... oh wait, you said player, although Connie senior did play.

[g_olaf]

3. Yes, ARod will catch and pass Bonds, IF he stays healthy.

Bonds was ~36 years old when he hit his 500th homerun. ARod, who started playing pro ball at 19, will have just turned 32. Those 4 extra years are a big deal. Nevertheless, even at 40+ home runs per year, ARod would be around 38 when passes Bonds... which is getting on for a ball player.

[dkbaseball]

Cornelius McGillicuddy, Jr... oh wait, you said player, although Connie senior did play.

And the son played baseball for Duke. It's also not Jeff Staubach -- not a trick question; the father is in the baseball Hall of Fame. A clue: The father is a figure of some historic significance in the game for reasons other than his play. Some might consider it improbable that his son played for the coach at Duke at the time.

[Mal]

And the son played baseball for Duke. It's also not Jeff Staubach -- not a trick question; the father is in the baseball Hall of Fame. A clue: The father is a figure of some historic significance in the game for reasons other than his play. Some might consider it improbable that his son played for the coach at Duke at the time.

That's a great clue. Gave me just enough info. to have a hunch, which narrowed down the universe of Duke ballplayers. The wonders of the internet allowed me to fill in the blanks (I won't reveal here and deny the glory to someone who can guess without the crutch of Wikipedia). Thank you for the great, great piece of trivia! Makes me want to further research one of the prominent bits of conventional wisdom about a certain person who shall remain nameless for the moment.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

And the son played baseball for Duke. It's also not Jeff Staubach -- not a trick question; the father is in the baseball Hall of Fame. A clue: The father is a figure of some historic significance in the game for reasons other than his play. Some might consider it improbable that his son played for the coach at Duke at the time.

Well, that must make it Larry Doby's son, who I believe played for Enos Slaughter. I saw a feature on Doby today on ESPN.

[mr. synellinden]

And the son played baseball for Duke. It's also not Jeff Staubach -- not a trick question; the father is in the baseball Hall of Fame. A clue: The father is a figure of some historic significance in the game for reasons other than his play. Some might consider it improbable that his son played for the coach at Duke at the time.

Did you mean Jeff Torborg, whose uniform was/is in the Hall of Fame?

[dkbaseball]

Well, that must make it Larry Doby's son, who I believe played for Enos Slaughter.

Right Ozzie. He was the year behind you, playing from '73-'77. Big, strong kid with a bit of a hole in his bat when he first arrived, but turned into a solid player who signed after graduation.

Mal, if I can guess the bit of conventional wisdom you're talking about, and give my own thoughts on it. When people talk about the bigotry and persecution Jackie Robinson faced when he came into the majors, the story about Slaughter spiking him at first base seems to pop right up. I could be wrong, but my guess is Enos would have spiked anybody under similar circumstances, being a Ty Cobb sort of hell-for-leather player.

Enos definitely was born and raised a bit of a cracker in segregated North Carolina, and he did campaign for George Wallace in 1968. However, I have two reasons to think he was not bigoted in any sort of malicious way.

The first is that Larry Doby was a very intelligent and thoughtful guy, who knew Enos, and I can't believe he would allow his son to play for a bigot.

Secondly, I played for Enos for three years (just missing Doby, Jr.). He certainly was not someone you would characterize as being reluctant to express his views on any matter that happened to occur to him. If there was a culture of political correctness among the faculty at Duke in the early '70s, it definitely had not extended to include the baseball coach. In all those three years -- and we had no African American players on the team then to inhibit him -- never once did I hear Enos utter a word that indicated any trace of bigotry. I think if it was in his heart it would have slipped out in three years, but it never did.

[Olympic Fan]

I happen to be a big Maddux fan, but when I look at the numbers, I have to given Clemens a very slight edge as the greatest pitcher in this generation.

Clemens does have a better win percentage (10 more wins and 30 less losses) and greater league-adjusted ERA (Maddux's raw career era of 3.08 is slightly better than Roger's 3.14, but the National League scores significantly less runs than the American)

I can't break down their winning percentage vs. the team winning percentage, but I can't believe that's a huge difference -- Maddux played on a few bad Cub teams in his career, but mostly pitched for all those Brave division winners; Clemens played on a few poor Red Sox teams near the end of his tenture there, but has mostly pitched for competitive teams.

The comparison of Cy Young's -- seven for Clemens and four for Maddux -- is less important to me because they were pitching in different leagues and had different competition. The stupidity of the voters also has something to do with it -- one year Maddux finished second to Glavine even though he had a much better ERA and more innings for the same team. Glavine got more than a run a game more in run support and finished with two more wins and thus won the award.

That said, I do believe there's a 70 percent chance that Maddox ends up with more wins than Clemens, but even if that happens this generation's starting pitching rank goes (this is off the top of my head ... if I left somebody out, please correct me):

1. Roger Clemens
2. Greg Maddox
3. Pedro Martinez
4. Randy Johnson
5. John Smoltz
6. Tom Glavine
7. Curt Schilling
-- Hall of Fame cutoff --
8. Mike Mussina?
9. Andy Pettite?


Just a few other observations: Bill James, in his Historical Baseball Abstract does have a long debate over the greatest pitcher of all time. He insists that it comes down to two guys -- Walter Johnson and Lefty Grove. His argument is that Grove's numbers are about 5 percent better than Johnson's -- but that Johnson pitched 20 percent more innings and thus for career value is No. 1 with Grove (who lost 4-5 prime years because his minor league owner wouldn't sell him to the majors) comes in at No. 2.

The one thing to be careful about during the pitcher debate is to factor in the era. For instance, the numbers of best pitchers in the deadball era look great -- guys like Mathewson, Waddell, Three-Finger Brown, Alexander (for half his career), but their numbers are distorted because they played in a low run era. They are all very good, but not as good as their stats look. Walter Johnson also pitched for almost a decade at the tail-end of that era, but his numbers stand out even when era-adjusted.

The era-correction applies to Sandy Koufax. Not only did he have a short stint as a dominant pitcher, he pitched in the greatest pitchers park in the greatest pitcher era in baseball history. He is very, VERY good -- but not quite as great historically as kids who grew up in that era think. The same applies to Bob Gibson, another great pitcher, who benefited from the way the game was played at the time.

The same works in reverse for hitters -- averages were ridiculous in the 20s and 30s ... at some point we're going to have to discount a lot of power numbers that have been put up since the HR explosion in the early 90s. For whatever reason (steroids? smaller parks? juiced balls? corked bats? body armor?), home run production has unquestionably exploded.

Maddox and Clemens were dominant in this era. They are both IMHO among the top 10 of all time.

PS: I'm pretty sure that Wade Boggs prompted the HOF to take control of the hat issue. When he signed as a free agent with Tampa Bay, he offered to pick a Tampa Bay hat for his HOF bust in return for more money. Before that, I'm pretty sure they let the players pick -- I remember the big debate when Reggie choose the Yankees over the A's.

[JasonEvans]

PS: I'm pretty sure that Wade Boggs prompted the HOF to take control of the hat issue. When he signed as a free agent with Tampa Bay, he offered to pick a Tampa Bay hat for his HOF bust in return for more money. Before that, I'm pretty sure they let the players pick -- I remember the big debate when Reggie choose the Yankees over the A's.

Wade Boggs is just not a good person. What a cheap thing to do. I read up on this a bit and Boggs agreed to sell his Hall plaque hat to the DRays for a million dollars. This from a guy who earned more than $30 million in his career (plus probably many millions more from endorsements).

Want to know something even more pathetic? The D-Rays actually retired Boggs' number. The Red Sox never retired his number but the D-Rays did. He played in all of 213 games for them and batted like .280. He is 19th on their career hits list. If you look at the D-Rays career numbers, he ranks 3-5 slots below former Dukie Quentin McCracken in virtually every statistical category. On what planet would they retire his number?

-Jason "selling your Hall off Fame plaque... just disgusting" Evans

[Bostondevil]

Of all the Red Sox stars who went on to play with the Yankees, the only one I was happy about was Wade Boggs. Never liked him on the Sox, took satisfaction that he went to the pinstripes.

Heard the song "Centerfield" on the radio yesterday which reminded me of a trivia question, what player inspired that song?

[dkbaseball]

Heard the song "Centerfield" on the radio yesterday which reminded me of a trivia question, what player inspired that song?

Willy Mays? Fogerty grew up in Northern California.

[Bostondevil]

Nope. Anybody else? Want a hint? Here's one. "Roundin' third and headed for home, it's a brown-eyed handsome man." That lyric refers directly to the player in question.

[Bluedawg]

Who will finish with more career wins, Greg Maddux (340 at age 41) or Roger Clemens (350 at age 44)? Can someone argue that Maddux, not Clemens, is the greatest pitcher of the past 25 years?

How many career home runs will Barry Bonds finish with (751 right now)?

Will A-Rod (490+ homeruns at age 31) catch Bonds someday?

Will Griffey (585 HR at age 37) reach 700 homers someday?

Should Griffey wear a Mariners (11 seasons) or Reds (8+ seasons) hat into the Hall of Fame? What about Maddux (Cubs 9 years, Braves 11 years)? What about Clemens (BoSox 13, NYY 6+)?

You need 3 outs in the bottom of the 9th-- Rivera, Hoffman, Eckersley, or Wagner?

-Jason "answer these and then we can come up with some more" Evans

The real question is that with Bonds hr total being chemically enhanced should he even be on the same list.

I would say that Maddux is the greatest pitcher of the past 25 years

I would hope that A-Rod, Griffey or Donald Duck catch Bonds someday and restore some honor to this great game. The same honor that Bud is letting get away just for ratings and press.

Griffey should wear a Mariners, Maddux a Braves, and Clemens a BoSox.

[Bluedawg]

I know it's not the answer you want, but try this out for a twist.

""Brown Eyed Handsome Man" is one of the more popular songs written by Chuck Berry. Berry has long been considered one of the most influential artists of all time. This specific song was of particular influence to which song by John Fogerty? Think of the lyrics to each song as a hint.

Centerfield. If you listen to the last verse of Berry's song, the lyrics are as follows: "Two, three count with nobody on He hit a high fly into the stand Rounding third he was headed for home It was a brown eyed handsome man" John Fogerty's "Centerfield" has these lyrics in the opening verse: "Well, beat the drum and hold the phone - the sun came out today We're born again, there's new grass on the field Roundin' third, and headed for home, it's a brown-eyed handsome man Anyone can understand the way I feel" Coincidence? I don't know. I think Fogerty, as well as the rest of rock and roll music, owes a certain debt of gratitude to Mr. Berry."

Copied from www.funtrivia.com/en/subtopics/-Rolling-Stones-500-Greatest-Songs-351-375-210916.html

However, I'd say your answer is Jack Roosevelt "Jackie" Robinson

[Bostondevil]

Nope much more recent than these guesses but no longer active.

Here's the answer in spoiler tags.
Dale Murphy

I'll try another one. Who is the only player to have at least 500 hits with 4 different teams?

Hint #1 Three were National League teams, one American

Hint #2 The teams were Houston, New York Mets, Detroit, and Montreal

Hint #3 His nickname in Montreal was Le Grande Orange.

Note: Bob Lobel asked this question on Sports Final a couple of years ago. Neither Dan Shaughnessy nor Bob Ryan got the answer, I did. My husband was really impressed. It was a proud moment for me. But to be fair, I also thought, really? This is what is takes to impress you?

[dkbaseball]

I'll try another one. Who is the only player to have at least 500 hits with 4 different teams?



Good question. I must confess to having gone all the way to hint number three, whhich gives it away to anybody who was following the game circa 1962-82. Rusty Staub. That is impressive, Bostondevil.

[EKU1969]

I saw your question about HOF pitching staffs earlier in the thread...I seem to remember that the Cleveland Indians had Bob Feller, Early Wynn, and Bob Lemon from, like, '49-'54 and a guy named Mike Garcia as the 4th starter.
Not too shabby of a rotation.

Personally, I'll take Spahn as the best I've ever seen (for a career).

[Bluedawg]

Nope much more recent than these guesses but no longer active.

Here's the answer in spoiler tags.
Dale Murphy

I'll try another one. Who is the only player to have at least 500 hits with 4 different teams?

Hint #1 Three were National League teams, one American

Hint #2 The teams were Houston, New York Mets, Detroit, and Montreal

Hint #3 His nickname in Montreal was Le Grande Orange.

Note: Bob Lobel asked this question on Sports Final a couple of years ago. Neither Dan Shaughnessy nor Bob Ryan got the answer, I did. My husband was really impressed. It was a proud moment for me. But to be fair, I also thought, really? This is what is takes to impress you?


Rusty Staub? come on you've got to be kidding. How did you come up with that?

Answer this...3 players are mentioned by name and a fourth by an expression. Know them?

[Bluedawg]

With all of this talk the song HAS TO BE experienced.

So...sit back, click on full screen and enjoy Centerfield (http://youtube.com/watch?v=pvyMwXBkvF4).

Watching him do it live is an experience i urge everyone to have!

[TillyGalore]

With all of this talk the song HAS TO BE experienced.

So...sitback, click on full screen and enjoy Centerfield (http://youtube.com/watch?v=pvyMwXBkvF4) Watching him do it live is an experience i urge everyone to have!

Bluedawg, thank you for posting the link to Centerfield. I'm heading to Cooperstown Sunday and this was a perfect way to get me in the mood. May need to create a baseball playlist for my phone (I have the verizon chocolate phone).

CAL RIPKIN FOR PRESIDENT!!!!!!!!!

[Bostondevil]

Rusty Staub? come on you've got to be kidding. How did you come up with that?

I started with the 4 teams. I thought how many players can I think of that played enough time with 4 teams to have had 500 hits with each one? It was fairly easy to get to Rusty Staub from there. I think going the other way, who has the hits and then how many teams did they play for is the wrong way to go.

By the way, I'm much worse with stats now, I still follow baseball, well mostly just the Red Sox, but I'm kind of a casualty of the '94 strike. I also started having kids in '93 which affects my time with the sports page, but prior to the '94 strike I could name at least three players on every major league team. Now, I'm hard pressed to do it for just the AL East.

Your question, don't know it, can you give me a timeframe?

[Tom B.]

Answer this...3 players are mentioned by name and a fourth by an expression. Know them?

Willie Mays ("Say Hey Willie"), Ty Cobb and Joe DiMaggio are the three mentioned by name. I'm guessing the fourth player to whom you're referring is Shoeless Joe Jackson ("Don't say it ain't so, you know the time is now") -- although I suppose it also could be the player mentioned by Bostondevil (the "brown-eyed handsome man").

If we're including fictional players, there's also Mighty Casey, of course.

[Bluedawg]

Willie Mays ("Say Hey Willie"), Ty Cobb and Joe DiMaggio are the three mentioned by name. I'm guessing the fourth player to whom you're referring is Shoeless Joe Jackson ("Don't say it ain't so, you know the time is now") -- although I suppose it also could be the player mentioned by Bostondevil (the "brown-eyed handsome man").

If we're including fictional players, there's also Mighty Casey, of course.

the 4th one was Shoeless Joe

[Bluedawg]

I started with the 4 teams. I thought how many players can I think of that played enough time with 4 teams to have had 500 hits with each one? It was fairly easy to get to Rusty Staub from there. I think going the other way, who has the hits and then how many teams did they play for is the wrong way to go.

By the way, I'm much worse with stats now, I still follow baseball, well mostly just the Red Sox, but I'm kind of a casualty of the '94 strike. I also started having kids in '93 which affects my time with the sports page, but prior to the '94 strike I could name at least three players on every major league team. Now, I'm hard pressed to do it for just the AL East.



But how did you figure Rusty was the "brown-eyed handsome man"?

[Bostondevil]

D'oh (slaps forehead) I just realized you meant in the song. Not sure what I was thinking before but it wasn't about the song.