NBA Playoffs

[superdave]

Playoffs! The REAL NBA season begins this weekend. Lots of subplots: an aging defending champ, a gravitas-shifting trade, a young upstart team led by the league MVP, the torch possibly being snatched from Kobe by LeBron. I'm excited!

Who do you guys think wins the first round series? Here's the matchups:

East -
1. Bulls vs 8. Pacers
2. Heat vs 7. 76ers
3. Celtics vs 6. Knickerbockers
4. Magic vs. 5. Hawks

West -
1. Spurs vs 8. Grizzlies
2. Lakers vs 7. Hornets
3. Mavericks vs 6. TrailBlazers
4. Thunder vs 5. Nuggets

I am going with all the favorites in the East and West in the first round. I have considered the top 4 seeds in both conferences to be the top 8 teams in the league all year, and that almost always means they advance in the NBA playoffs.

The Knicks have the best chance of upsetting their opponent, but the Celtics have too much pride and experience to carry them through (as long as the old men on the C's front line dont come up lame). I could also see the Blazers giving the Mavs a run for their money, since the Mavs have only won a single playoff series since their Finals appearance in 2006. But Dirk has played well this season and may be the most clutch shooter in the league (sorry Kobe, you miss too often). Also Tyson Chandler is a great defensive addition.

[NovaScotian]

Don't sleep on Denver: they are mega dangerous. Also, if my knix can keep it close against Boston, melo and stat can take them down, possession by possession. At least that's what I'm telling myself.

[superdave]

Don't sleep on Denver: they are mega dangerous. Also, if my knix can keep it close against Boston, melo and stat can take them down, possession by possession. At least that's what I'm telling myself.

Everyone is high on Denver right now because they gelled so quickly post-trade. But OKC is a baaaad matchup for them. They cant guard KD at the 3 and now OKC has the bulk at the 4-5 positions to be physical. Also, Denver's guards are pretty small.

Denver is also 1-3 vs. OKC this year including two recent losses.

I thought about this one before posting, but I really think Denver drew a bad card.

[pfrduke]

Everyone is high on Denver right now because they gelled so quickly post-trade. But OKC is a baaaad matchup for them. They cant guard KD at the 3 and now OKC has the bulk at the 4-5 positions to be physical. Also, Denver's guards are pretty small.

Denver is also 1-3 vs. OKC this year including two recent losses.

I thought about this one before posting, but I really think Denver drew a bad card.

The way both teams have been playing, that first round series should be the most entertaining of the 8. Could see a lot of high scores, a lot of close contests, etc. But I agree with you that OKC has what it takes to get through Denver. I also think they can beat the Spurs in round 2 - sort of a changing of the guard series between the team that's been the most consistent in the West for the past decade+ against the newcomer that has been built on the Spurs model and hopes to take their place.

Of course, all of the above should be happening in Seattle. Grrrrrrrrr........

[COYS]

Playoffs! The REAL NBA season begins this weekend. Lots of subplots: an aging defending champ, a gravitas-shifting trade, a young upstart team led by the league MVP, the torch possibly being snatched from Kobe by LeBron. I'm excited!

Who do you guys think wins the first round series? Here's the matchups:

East -
1. Bulls vs 8. Pacers
2. Heat vs 7. 76ers
3. Celtics vs 6. Knickerbockers
4. Magic vs. 5. Hawks

West -
1. Spurs vs 8. Grizzlies
2. Lakers vs 7. Hornets
3. Mavericks vs 6. TrailBlazers
4. Thunder vs 5. Nuggets

I am going with all the favorites in the East and West in the first round. I have considered the top 4 seeds in both conferences to be the top 8 teams in the league all year, and that almost always means they advance in the NBA playoffs.

The Knicks have the best chance of upsetting their opponent, but the Celtics have too much pride and experience to carry them through (as long as the old men on the C's front line dont come up lame). I could also see the Blazers giving the Mavs a run for their money, since the Mavs have only won a single playoff series since their Finals appearance in 2006. But Dirk has played well this season and may be the most clutch shooter in the league (sorry Kobe, you miss too often). Also Tyson Chandler is a great defensive addition.

This isn't just because I'm a Hawks homer, but I really do think the Magic are vulnerable. I'm a realistic enough Hawks fan to recognize that the team is far from elite. Last year's embarrassing showing against the Magic is also fresh in my mind. That being said, the Magic are a totally different team than they were last year and have played inconsistently. Howard is a transcendent talent, but beyond that, the Hawks match up well. The Hawks have also had the Magic's number this season, which doesn't necessarily mean anything, but is another piece of the equation that favors the Hawks . . . at least on paper. I've been a fan of the Hawks far too long to expect anything particularly good to happen, but I think getting the Magic was the best possible draw. I'm guessing that this series is the most competitive of the East's first round.

[darjum]

East -
1. Bulls vs 8. Pacers
2. Heat vs 7. 76ers
3. Celtics vs 6. Knickerbockers
4. Magic vs. 5. Hawks

West -
1. Spurs vs 8. Grizzlies
2. Lakers vs 7. Hornets
3. Mavericks vs 6. TrailBlazers
4. Thunder vs 5. Nuggets

The Knicks have the best chance of upsetting their opponent, but the Celtics have too much pride and experience to carry them through (as long as the old men on the C's front line dont come up lame).

I agree with your analysis here. I feel the Knicks will create major problems for the Celtics, but also agree that Boston will hold up over a 6 or 7 game series. However, this does not bold well for them coming across the Heat in the 2nd rnd. What does work in the Knicks favor is having a Duke player on their roster (Shelden of course)! Ha, ha.

The Trailblazers are also dangerous and somebody said that they actually wanted Dallas as they feel they match up well with them? Should be an interesting series and if Brandon Roy can be 65-70% of his old self then maybe they can.

Denver might be able to play with Oklahoma for a few games, but by the end of the series (5 to 6 games in my opinion) KD will be way too much for any of the Nuggets to handle.

All other first rnd series should be easy. I just hope the Orl v Atl is at least watchable this year. Hope JJ is healthy and a factor also. Which reminds me, the Bulls v Pacers series is basically a Duke A v Duke B intrasquad match with all the ex Dukies they have. Have to love the way Deng bounced back this year, very wise of Bulls management to choose him over Ben Gordon a few years back.

[Matches]

I agree the Knicks and Blazers both have good chances of pulling upsets. The Celtics have not been the same since the Perkins trade, and the Mavs look to me like they've run out of gas.

I'm guessing a Heat-Lakers final. The Lakers look vulnerable right now but they're the champs until someone proves they're not.

[Reilly]

... Denver is also 1-3 vs. OKC this year including two recent losses. ......

If you have them at hand, post the other head-to-head series results. Would be interesting to see.

[hq2]

East -
1. Bulls vs 8. Pacers
2. Heat vs 7. 76ers
3. Celtics vs 6. Knickerbockers
4. Magic vs. 5. Hawks

West -
1. Spurs vs 8. Grizzlies
2. Lakers vs 7. Hornets
3. Mavericks vs 6. TrailBlazers
4. Thunder vs 5. Nuggets

But most importantly, what will ex-Duke players do? Plenty of 'em here.

J.J., Duhon (Magic) Boozer. Deng (Bulls), Shelden (Knicks), McBobs, Dahntay and Dunleavy (Pacers), Elton (sixers), Battier (Grizzlies). Plenty to watch here.

[Reilly]

But most importantly, what will ex-Duke players do? Plenty of 'em here.

J.J., Duhon (Magic) Boozer. Deng (Bulls), Shelden (Knicks), McBobs, Dahntay and Dunleavy (Pacers), Elton (sixers), Battier (Grizzlies). Plenty to watch here.

Don't forget Quin coaching w/ the 76ers, Collins's dad w/ them as well (honorary Duke), Ferry as assistant GM of Spurs ... is Tony Barone still with Memphis in some capacity? ... Pagliuca owning Celtics ... isn't OKCity part-owned by a Duke guy as well ... Bob Bender with the Hawks ... Chip Engelland with Spurs ... any other assistants or front office Duke folks out there?

[pfrduke]

East -
1. Bulls vs 8. Pacers (Bulls 3-1)
2. Heat vs 7. 76ers (Heat 3-0)
3. Celtics vs 6. Knickerbockers (Celtics 4-0)
4. Magic vs. 5. Hawks (Hawks 3-1)

West -
1. Spurs vs 8. Grizzlies (Tied 2-2)
2. Lakers vs 7. Hornets (Lakers 4-0)
3. Mavericks vs 6. TrailBlazers (Tied 2-2)
4. Thunder vs 5. Nuggets (Thunder 3-1)



If you have them at hand, post the other head-to-head series results. Would be interesting to see.

See above.

[Billy Dat]

I have been digesting tons of pre-playoffs media and EVERYONE is picking the Blazers to beat Dallas. What's funny is that Dallas is a Vegas favorite, yet most folks are talking about the series as if Dallas has no shot. The conventional wisdom seems to be that while Dirk is the best player in the series, Kidd's play has plummeted and they aren't nearly the same team since Caron Butler got hurt. On the flip side, the Gerald Wallace trade has jump started the Blazers, and Lamarcus Aldridge has emerged as an All Star level performer. Both of those factors have offset the dramatic post-injury regression of Brandon Roy. I give Portland a lot of credit, how many franchises would lose their two young saviors (Roy and Oden) yet keep on rolling. I credit their toughness. Last night, Kobe hit a huge 3 to keep the Lakers from having to face the Blazers in the first round, which everyone seems to think would be a nightmare match-up. It could happen in round 2.

I think everyone is giving the Knicks a better chance than the Knicks fans (like me) themselves. We have a very poor recent record against Boston. The post Perkins-trade Celtics are a mystery, but that team has such heart than I can't imagine they aren't going to pull it together for a final deep run.

If things go the way they are expected to go, it could be an epic second round with:
Bulls v Magic
Heat v Celtics
Spurs v OKC
Lakers v Blazers

Lots of great overall storylines:
-Can the Celtics pull it together to get to the Finals? Can the Lakers do the same? A final blood match series between these two would be great. Or, have they suddenly become old overnight...the Celtics with no inside game...Kobe unable to be KOBE whenever he wants. In addition, are the wily Spurs and their championship pedigree ready to make one last run, or was their guady regular season their final act?
-Is it time for a new generation to make their mark? Can the untested Bulls, holders of the best 2010/11 regular season record, go from nothing to World Champs behind their brilliant young PG, and beloved small forward by way of Durham by way of NJ by way of England by way of Sudan? Can OKC make the jump to title quality?
-Finally, can the Heat, the modern Frankenstein monster of a contender, grab the brass ring despite the country's scorn and years of thinking that it is impossible to build a champion overnight (despite the fact that the Celtics basically did the same thing in 08 when they added KG and Allen to Pierce and then signed PJ Brown and James Posey)?

I can't wait.

[diveonthefloor]

Keep an eye on Memphis.

They actually got better when Rudy Gay went down to injury....and got even better when they dumped Thabeet and picked up Shane.

From what is being tossed around by NBA front office folks in the Western Conf, Memphis is one of he most feared lower seeds in a long, long while.

[hedevil]

My quick prediction for the finals is Bulls vs Lakers. Go Bulls!!!

[juise]

My quick prediction for the finals is Bulls vs Lakers. Go Bulls!!!

Bulls vs. Lakers. Good memories.

http://www.vgchartz.com/games/pics/2573586aaa.jpg

[darjum]

Bulls vs. Lakers. Good memories.

http://www.vgchartz.com/games/pics/2573586aaa.jpg

Believe I played this on my Sega Megadrive back in the day!

[DukieInBrasil]

Boozer has had an absolutely terrible game so far, just letting Hansbrough abuse him. He's not contesting Psycho T's jumpers, let PT steal the ball at mid-court and dunk on him + the foul. That was a pathetic sequence.

[dukeblue1206]

Derrick Rose took that game over in the last 3 minutes. He is just unstoppable. Liked seeing Loul getting the crowd pumped like he was still in Cameron Indoor.

[Buckeye Devil]

Danny Ainge has made some good moves, but trading away Perkins was not a good move, at least in the short term. I can see the Knicks winning this even though I am a huge Celts fan.

[darjum]

I wonder how long until Dwight Howard gets sick of carrying that team around. The Orlando role players didn't wake up until it was way too late. At least this year it will be a series.

[Acymetric]

I wonder how long until Dwight Howard gets sick of carrying that team around. The Orlando role players didn't wake up until it was way too late. At least this year it will be a series.

Did anyone else notice JJ's plus minus? I know, I know...can't read too much into single game plus minus, but 10 points better than the next best? 24 points better than the best starter? I think there's something there...hopefully if the injury doesn't hold him back he can contribute in a big way to a run by Orlando.

[darjum]

Did anyone else notice JJ's plus minus? I know, I know...can't read too much into single game plus minus, but 10 points better than the next best? 24 points better than the best starter? I think there's something there...hopefully if the injury doesn't hold him back he can contribute in a big way to a run by Orlando.

At least JJ (who didn't look 100%) tried on defense. Wasn't it great that the Magic crowd gave him such a big ovation, they obviously realize a player when they see one!

The Magic in general looked pathetic on the defensive side. Basically the Hawks got what they wanted when they wanted...this continues and it is bye, bye Dwight for sure.

[COYS]

At least JJ (who didn't look 100%) tried on defense. Wasn't it great that the Magic crowd gave him such a big ovation, they obviously realize a player when they see one!

The Magic in general looked pathetic on the defensive side. Basically the Hawks got what they wanted when they wanted...this continues and it is bye, bye Dwight for sure.

Is it that the Magic didn't try or that Nelson and Turk are such big holes on defense that not oven Howard can compensate? Although it pains me to root against a team with JJ, I have to say that I was very pleased with the game. It didn't follow the script of the regular season games where the Hawks actually minimized Howard, but instead Howard got his but the Hawks chased the three point shooters off the line, recognizing that without the three point shot the Magic offense is limited. The athleticism and length of the Hawks also left the Magic at a disadvantage. Personally, I hope JJ goes off in the next game and the Hawks win by 1, answering a JJ three that gave the Magic a one point lead with 10 seconds left.

[shoutingncu]

But most importantly, what will ex-Duke players do? Plenty of 'em here.

J.J., Duhon (Magic) Boozer. Deng (Bulls), Shelden (Knicks), McBobs, Dahntay and Dunleavy (Pacers), Elton (sixers), Battier (Grizzlies). Plenty to watch here.

And if you aren't a fan and need teams to root against...

Hansbrough (Pacers),
Marvin Williams (Hawks),
Lawson, Felton (Nuggets),
Brendan Haywood (Mavericks),
Danny Green (end of Spurs bench)

[AluminumDuke]

In the final minute against the Spurs, Battier hit a three to put the Grizzlies up by one and they held on for a 101-98 win. The Grizzlies finished on a 7-0 run, coming back from a 98-94 deficit in the final minute.

[_Gary]

And if you aren't a fan and need teams to root against...

Hansbrough (Pacers),
Marvin Williams (Hawks),
Lawson, Felton (Nuggets),
Brendan Haywood (Mavericks),
Danny Green (end of Spurs bench)

Thanks, but I've a team to root against for as long as I've been following NBA basketball (I guess that's about 35 years now - since I was around 10):

The LA Lakers! :mad:

As long as they don't win I'll be happy. Having said that, YES I do actively root against teams with Tar Heels in the lineup.

[sagegrouse]

And if you aren't a fan and need teams to root against...

Hansbrough (Pacers),
Marvin Williams (Hawks),
Lawson, Felton (Nuggets),
Brendan Haywood (Mavericks),
Danny Green (end of Spurs bench)

Don't hate the Tar Heel players, and certainly the Duke players don't hate them. I like Lawson and Felton, although I don't have a lot of use for Haywood and Showboat Danny Green (but, hey, he's drawing an NBA salary).

We have a lot of fun with Hansbrough, who was being called "Psycho T" even on the ESPN radio post-game show, but I thought he would do well in the NBA. It's taken a year-and-a-half.

sagegrouse

[g-money]

In the final minute against the Spurs, Battier hit a three to put the Grizzlies up by one and they held on for a 101-98 win. The Grizzlies finished on a 7-0 run, coming back from a 98-94 deficit in the final minute.

That's why they call him Big Shot Shane! (Yeah, OK, maybe they don't call him that...but they should.)

[NashvilleDevil]

That's why they call him Big Shot Shane! (Yeah, OK, maybe they don't call him that...but they should.)

Shane just tweeted that they also welcomed Baby Battier to the world after the game.

[FreezingDevil]

Shane just tweeted that they also welcomed Baby Battier to the world after the game.

Who's your daddy? BATTIER!

[Acymetric]

And if you aren't a fan and need teams to root against...

Hansbrough (Pacers),
Marvin Williams (Hawks),
Lawson, Felton (Nuggets),
Brendan Haywood (Mavericks),
Danny Green (end of Spurs bench)

Not sure why people here would root against a team with 3 Duke players in the rotation...

[Dukeface88]

Shane just tweeted that they also welcomed Baby Battier to the world after the game.

Solid start to the 2029 recruiting class IMO. ;)

[CDu]

Not sure why people here would root against a team with 3 Duke players in the rotation...

If you're talking about the Pacers, they may only have two Duke players in their playoff rotation (Jones got a DNP in game 1). And they're playing against the team with two Duke players in the starting lineup (and no UNC players on the roster, as compared with the Pacers who start a UNC guy).

Of course, I'm a Bulls fan, so I'm biased.

[JasonEvans]

Well, the Knicks just gaacked away a game they probably had to have. Melo was dead set on being the hero, that is why they brought him to town, and he missed every shot he took while also turning the ball over a lot at crunch time (though the offensive foul in the final 30 seconds was a joke of a call).

I am no Knicks fan, but the refs sure seemed to be pro-Celtics. On the play where Billups got hurt, it looked like he got fouled about 4 different times.

-Jason "Ray Allen is a stone cold assassin" Evans

[diveonthefloor]

Shane just tweeted that they also welcomed Baby Battier to the world after the game.

Memphis used to have an awesome play by play announcer whose favorite phrase was:
"Only in the movies......and in Memphis!"

If he were still alive to have called this game, he would have brought this one out again.

After the game, Coach Hollins said something to the effect 'I could care less about winning Memphis's first game, but nothing could have been more appropriate than Shane making the winning shot."

[darjum]

I always love Game 1 road team victories, always add some juice to a series. Still think Lakers and Spurs pull it out, but the West looks like it will be a lot of fun.

Amazing how teams with Battier on them tend to overachieve.

[brevity]

I always love Game 1 road team victories, always add some juice to a series. Still think Lakers and Spurs pull it out, but the West looks like it will be a lot of fun.

Best possible news for casual fans, really. A lot of recent NBA press (Can Orlando win the East? Can Denver win the West?) has tried to serve one purpose: hope. Hope that there's just enough parity to delay the inevitable* so that people will still bother watching.

Interesting how it takes 2 months to eliminate 15 teams in the NBA playoffs, while the NCAA Tournament eliminates 16 teams in its first full day. I see, objectively, that pro basketball is a better product, but does it have to be so long and predictable?

Haven't rooted for a particular player or team in years. I'm more of a "Please, anything different" type of person.

*Lakers over Celtics. Kobe Bryant pretends to be excited. Derek Fisher celebrates his 96th birthday. Phil Jackson disapparates as he instantly merges with the Force. And a nation yawns.

[theAlaskanBear]

Well, the Knicks just gaacked away a game they probably had to have. Melo was dead set on being the hero, that is why they brought him to town, and he missed every shot he took while also turning the ball over a lot at crunch time (though the offensive foul in the final 30 seconds was a joke of a call).

I am no Knicks fan, but the refs sure seemed to be pro-Celtics. On the play where Billups got hurt, it looked like he got fouled about 4 different times.

-Jason "Ray Allen is a stone cold assassin" Evans

One thing I have noticed the last couple of years is that the Celtics get away with murder on defense. Holding (which last night was more like grappling), moving screens (this particularly annoys me because it is so obvious: case in point, the ONeal screen where he literally pushed 'Melo down into the post), and hands (KG is the egregious one here -- he will put both hands on you at the same time).

I have no love for the Knicks either, but as soon as the second half started you knew the refs were going to let the Celtics "defense" their way to a victory.

And yes, that bogus offensive foul call on Melo cost them the game.

[moonpie23]

i agreee....it was awful how they let the celts get away with EVERTHING....

NY got hosed...

[darjum]

Interesting how it takes 2 months to eliminate 15 teams in the NBA playoffs, while the NCAA Tournament eliminates 16 teams in its first full day. I see, objectively, that pro basketball is a better product, but does it have to be so long and predictable?

Haven't rooted for a particular player or team in years. I'm more of a "Please, anything different" type of person.

*Lakers over Celtics. Kobe Bryant pretends to be excited. Derek Fisher celebrates his 96th birthday. Phil Jackson disapparates as he instantly merges with the Force. And a nation yawns.

Interesting perspective. I agree in the sense that the NBA product is better in terms of skill on the court, but that the college game provides an element that the NBA does not. Nothing beats an elimination style tournament, regardless of if it is Conference or NCAA's. That's why I'm always pleased that Duke chases the Conference Tournament championship because in my mind it really means something, obviously the NCAA's mean more, but those don't come around as often!

I also don't follow a particular NBA team but do find the playoffs interesting. It's more like a marathon than a sprint and after the college season finishes it's nice to have basketball on for a few more months.

What I like about this year more than most seasons is that I don't see a clear favorite on either side. I agree that the Lakers 'should' win the West, but the last few games I've watched them play they truly look awful. I was listening to Bill Simmons Podcast and he's all over the Oklahoma to get out of the West, but it would be a major leap. Plus Simmons is a self proclaimed Duke hater so he can shove it.

In the East I have no idea. The Bulls have looked the best over the year but you can't ignore how the Celts play this time of year and Miami has clearly the most top end talent. Either way it should be fun and unlike other years I don't feel that there are only 2 or 3 teams that have a legitimate shot at winning it all.

Also, who said Phil Jackson will merge with the force, don't recall many Duke players on his rosters over the years and one ultra famous Tar Heel...sounds like the Dark Side to me ;)

[shoutingncu]

Also, who said Phil Jackson will merge with the force, don't recall many Duke players on his rosters over the years and one ultra famous Tar Heel...sounds like the Dark Side to me ;)

I'm not sure these guys are "ultra famous." Oh, wait... ;)

[pfrduke]

Also, who said Phil Jackson will merge with the force, don't recall many Duke players on his rosters over the years and one ultra famous Tar Heel...sounds like the Dark Side to me ;)

Indeed, not a single Duke player has ever suited up for a Phil Jackson coached team. Sort of interesting, from a random statistical tidbit point of view.

[superdave]

The older, veteran teams really struggled this weekend. Lakers lost, Spurs lost, Celtics barely won. I suspect they will all win their series though. Oh yeah, Dallas has some old guys - Kidd is like 50 - and they won by 8.

It could be a lack of energy or maybe they needed a wakeup after a long regular season, but the age factor seemd to be common in the weekend upsets and near upsets.

[brevity]

Also, who said Phil Jackson will merge with the force, don't recall many Duke players on his rosters over the years and one ultra famous Tar Heel...sounds like the Dark Side to me ;)

No argument from me. I always found it odd that Roy Williams is described as being born on third base -- twice -- with his opportunities at Kansas and UNC, but Phil Jackson is treated as some sort of demigod despite inheriting the NBA equivalent.

Has he shown remarkable coaching skill in doing what he's done over the years, and winning titles with such frequency? Absolutely. I just think there's more skill in creating a champion from the ground up, and he hasn't ever faced that challenge.

[wilson]

A neat little tidbit from Marc Stein of ESPN.com regarding Shane's game-winner yesterday and his thoughts on the Grizzlies' future (he thinks they're "one big guy short" of contending):
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2011/columns/story?columnist=stein_marc&page=grizzspurs-110417

[94duke]

I don't watch much NBA, but I'm watching a little of the Ind@Chi game.
I love watching all the Dukies. :)

Interestingly, I just saw something I have never seen while watching a college game.

Hansblahblah just got called for a travel! I had never seen that before!
Wow! NBA, where amazing happens, indeed!

:p

[A-Tex Devil]

I am in Austin and my Rockets are bad, so I don't watch a ton of NBA these days. I've watched 20 minutes of this Bulls-Pacers game, though, and it's clear that anyone that can appreciate the college game and not the NBA game makes no sense to me. I am not talking personalities or any of that intangible stuff. I am talking about the basketball. The NBA is so much more WATCHABLE to the average person. Everyone is so good. The mid range game we freak out over in the college game when someone has it is par for the course in the NBA.

So I understand the nostalgia and the intangible aspect of the college game, and why people like that better. But, and this is probably stating the obivous for most, 20 minutes in the 3rd quarter of one playoff game makes it clear that the NBA is of exponentially higher quality. Doesn't hurt that 5 Duke guys may play in this game and Hansblahblah got called for a charge, of course.

Edited to add: Kurt Thomas and Jeff Foster hitting those back to back shot just shows you how good all of these guys are. Those guys are not good offensive players.

Edited further to add: TJ!! Hook 'em!

[dukelifer]

I am in Austin and my Rockets are bad, so I don't watch a ton of NBA these days. I've watched 20 minutes of this Bulls-Pacers game, though, and it's clear that anyone that can appreciate the college game and not the NBA game makes no sense to me. I am not talking personalities or any of that intangible stuff. I am talking about the basketball. The NBA is so much more WATCHABLE to the average person. Everyone is so good. The mid range game we freak out over in the college game when someone has it is par for the course in the NBA.

So I understand the nostalgia and the intangible aspect of the college game, and why people like that better. But, and this is probably stating the obivous for most, 20 minutes in the 3rd quarter of one playoff game makes it clear that the NBA is of exponentially higher quality. Doesn't hurt that 5 Duke guys may play in this game and Hansblahblah got called for a charge, of course.

Edited to add: Kurt Thomas and Jeff Foster hitting those back to back shot just shows you how good all of these guys are. Those guys are not good offensive players.

Edited further to add: TJ!! Hook 'em!

Playoff basketball is excellent. Better when lots of Duke guys on the floor. Regular season basketball is not that watchable- games really are only about the last few minutes.

[Reilly]

No argument from me. I always found it odd that Roy Williams is described as being born on third base -- twice -- with his opportunities at Kansas and UNC, but Phil Jackson is treated as some sort of demigod despite inheriting the NBA equivalent.

Has he shown remarkable coaching skill in doing what he's done over the years, and winning titles with such frequency? Absolutely. I just think there's more skill in creating a champion from the ground up, and he hasn't ever faced that challenge.

Anybody could have guided the 1984 Albany Patroons to a championship. I mean, they had Andre Gaddy.

http://www.chuckthewriter.com/patroons/pats05.html

[Starter]

Bulls-Pacers wasn't the cleanest game, but it was definitely exciting down the stretch. I like how the Pacers play -- uptempo, dynamic in the halfcourt, lots of cuts and good shooters. Of particular note, I loved how Dunleavy played. He won't attract many highlight cameras, but he was setting people up left and right, and he also drained a big three. I think if his body hadn't betrayed him the past few years, he probably would be a pretty prominent player. Mike's a free agent this year, and I can't see how someone won't view him as a useful player.

[pless55]

My Thunder. I love the Thunder. Young team with lots of upside. They have the talent to get out of the West maybe not this year. Big Russell Westbrook fan. A athletic point guard who is clutch. Durant's the real deal. Love his attitude too not cocky. Also think that this young team is exciting to watch. So the second half last night. Played against some Tar Heels too in Felton and Lawson. Go Thunder. Also love Darren Collison of the Pacers. But, Thunder my new favorite NBA Team. Used to be the Jazz. Still waiting on the promise of Derrick Favors? Does anybody think that Favors and Hayward will be a potential franchise players?? All Star Talent or role players???

[sagegrouse]

My Thunder. I love the Thunder. Young team with lots of upside. They have the talent to get out of the West maybe not this year. Big Russell Westbrook fan. A athletic point guard who is clutch. Durant's the real deal. Love his attitude too not cocky. Also think that this young team is exciting to watch. So the second half last night. Played against some Tar Heels too in Felton and Lawson. Go Thunder. Also love Darren Collison of the Pacers. But, Thunder my new favorite NBA Team. Used to be the Jazz. Still waiting on the promise of Derrick Favors? Does anybody think that Favors and Hayward will be a potential franchise players?? All Star Talent or role players???

I took a business trip to Oklahoma last week. (Yep, the site I visited had a twister come by the previous day -- no damage but great video.) On previous trips, as we started meetings, I would usually ask, "Sooners or Cowboys?" because everyone there has a preference, and it helps break the ice. I now hear that the Thunder is a reason for the state to back one team and rise above the bitter rivalries of college athletics. A couple of people also mentioned "good guys" as a description of the players.

sagegrouse

[NSDukeFan]

I am in Austin and my Rockets are bad, so I don't watch a ton of NBA these days. I've watched 20 minutes of this Bulls-Pacers game, though, and it's clear that anyone that can appreciate the college game and not the NBA game makes no sense to me. I am not talking personalities or any of that intangible stuff. I am talking about the basketball. The NBA is so much more WATCHABLE to the average person. Everyone is so good. The mid range game we freak out over in the college game when someone has it is par for the course in the NBA.

So I understand the nostalgia and the intangible aspect of the college game, and why people like that better. But, and this is probably stating the obivous for most, 20 minutes in the 3rd quarter of one playoff game makes it clear that the NBA is of exponentially higher quality. Doesn't hurt that 5 Duke guys may play in this game and Hansblahblah got called for a charge, of course.

Edited to add: Kurt Thomas and Jeff Foster hitting those back to back shot just shows you how good all of these guys are. Those guys are not good offensive players.

Edited further to add: TJ!! Hook 'em!

I think you're right. I am much more of a college fan than NBA and a lot of that came from the post Showtime Lakers-Celtics era when defense dominated (Bad boy pistons, Riley's Knicks) and it was all clutch and grab, and then when the league became all matchup one-on-one for part of the 90s. I think the league has become much more entertaining to watch in the past few years as ball movement and offense have returned. I am too engrained as a college fan now, but I do appreciate the pro game.

[Spret42]

I think you're right. I am much more of a college fan than NBA and a lot of that came from the post Showtime Lakers-Celtics era when defense dominated (Bad boy pistons, Riley's Knicks) and it was all clutch and grab, and then when the league became all matchup one-on-one for part of the 90s. I think the league has become much more entertaining to watch in the past few years as ball movement and offense have returned. I am too engrained as a college fan now, but I do appreciate the pro game.

It was much more those Knicks teams than it was the Pistons. Remember the Pistons still averaged 106 and 104 points per game in their championship years. Yes, those teams played aggressive defense, but they also could transfer it to offense and easy baskets because of Isiah. The Knicks took NBA basketball and made it unwatchable for a portion of time.

I also agree with the post you quoted. Anyone who is still bashing the NBA is either doing for the unspoken reason most people do, or they just don't like basketball to begin with.

The NBA is so much more watchable because like the other poster said, the player are just so good at basketball. They make 20 foot jump shots like they are layups.

[darjum]

In minds eye the college game is less about skill than about determination and atmosphere. Granted not every college team is equal, but you will find more heart in most college games than in the majority of NBA regular season games. Don't get me wrong, I love the NBA too, but college hoops are special.

[hq2]

The NBA has gotten a lot better in recent years, probably the best it's been since the late 80s. In fact, back then, you had maybe 3 or 4 really good teams with Hall of Famers, and this year you have eight. This may be the most entertaining playoffs of all time. But enjoy it now; this year is it. After the lockout, the league will be breaking up the super teams, and a long list of Hall of Famers will be done or almost done (Duncan, Shaq, KG, Pierce, Allen, Kobe, Kidd, Nowitzki) so have fun
this year. You won's see this again for a long time.

[Matches]

The Knicks took NBA basketball and made it unwatchable for a portion of time.



This. Aside from the occasional Bulls game, the NBA was really hard to watch from about 1994-2000 or so. It's come a long way since then, though. The regular season is still a slog because it's too long, but the playoffs are terrific.

And if any of us are being honest with ourselves, we have to admit that the quality of play in college bball has declined dramatically over the last 20 years. Early entry has just butchered the college game. The intensity of the college game remains superior to the NBA, but if it wasn't for my personal investment in the Duke team I'd probably never watch the college game at all. Even with our '11 team, which was one of the best in the country, I can only count about 4-5 games that were well-played by BOTH teams.

[Starter]

It was much more those Knicks teams than it was the Pistons. Remember the Pistons still averaged 106 and 104 points per game in their championship years. Yes, those teams played aggressive defense, but they also could transfer it to offense and easy baskets because of Isiah. The Knicks took NBA basketball and made it unwatchable for a portion of time.

I also agree with the post you quoted. Anyone who is still bashing the NBA is either doing for the unspoken reason most people do, or they just don't like basketball to begin with.

The NBA is so much more watchable because like the other poster said, the player are just so good at basketball. They make 20 foot jump shots like they are layups.

Your final two statements are dead-on.

I'm a Knicks fan, so I find myself forced to defend them from a position of disadvantage. =) While fully admitting they had a deleterious effect on the whole with their physical brand of defense -- leading to figurative and sometimes literal slugfests with the Heat, which while inartistic were still high theater -- the overall level of play of the NBA stayed pretty high through most of the Ewing years, in large part due to Michael Jordan and the Bulls. Those Bulls teams were magnificent, and the playoffs were always tremendous.

Even after the Knicks screwed stuff up, you still had Vince Carter, Iverson and the Lakers keeping stuff exciting. I remember Bucks-Sixers in 2001 being a tremendous series -- Iverson spit blood inside his jersey so the refs couldn't see and make him come out! -- and I used to love the Nets-Celtics series back then.

All that said, I can't deny the Knicks eventually had a negative effect on the league, but the post-Jordan hangover (which includes his years on the Bullets) had just as much a negative effect, if not more. Not to mention, the league's always in better shape when the they have a good team in the New York market, and the Knicks happened to be much better when they were beating everyone up with Oakley and Mason.

[superdave]

The Bulls and Heat are both up 2-0. I will be interested to see if the Celtics can keep pace or if they wind up allowing NY to make them sweat. The C's, at their age, probably dont want a 6-7 game series. They need to TCB.

[Starter]

And if any of us are being honest with ourselves, we have to admit that the quality of play in college bball has declined dramatically over the last 20 years. Early entry has just butchered the college game. The intensity of the college game remains superior to the NBA, but if it wasn't for my personal investment in the Duke team I'd probably never watch the college game at all. Even with our '11 team, which was one of the best in the country, I can only count about 4-5 games that were well-played by BOTH teams.

These are all good points. I like the college game very much, in large part because I went to Duke, but almost every playoff game this spring has been extremely compelling. Granted, UConn-Butler left a bad taste for the NCAA that Duke-Butler didn't, but the point would be the same regardless.

[NSDukeFan]

Your final two statements are dead-on.

I'm a Knicks fan, so I find myself forced to defend them from a position of disadvantage. =) While fully admitting they had a deleterious effect on the whole with their physical brand of defense -- leading to figurative and sometimes literal slugfests with the Heat, which while inartistic were still high theater -- the overall level of play of the NBA stayed pretty high through most of the Ewing years, in large part due to Michael Jordan and the Bulls. Those Bulls teams were magnificent, and the playoffs were always tremendous.

Even after the Knicks screwed stuff up, you still had Vince Carter, Iverson and the Lakers keeping stuff exciting. I remember Bucks-Sixers in 2001 being a tremendous series -- Iverson spit blood inside his jersey so the refs couldn't see and make him come out! -- and I used to love the Nets-Celtics series back then.

All that said, I can't deny the Knicks eventually had a negative effect on the league, but the post-Jordan hangover (which includes his years on the Bullets) had just as much a negative effect, if not more. Not to mention, the league's always in better shape when the they have a good team in the New York market, and the Knicks happened to be much better when they were beating everyone up with Oakley and Mason.

I agree with most of your comment, but disagree with Iverson and Carter keeping things exciting. They were both extremely talented and exciting players to watch one-on-one. The problem, in my mind, is at that time their teams' (and others) offensive strategies consisted of trying to get good isolation plays for them and took out much of the passing that I enjoy in the game. I also agree with Matches that early entry has hurt the college game. The ACC in the 80s and even early 90s was just ridiculous when you compare its talent level to the present.

[Starter]

Totally fair, NSDukeFan. I remember that 2001 Sixers playoff run fondly -- I liked how they designed the whole team around their one transcendent talent and reached the heights they did -- but I can't deny the NBA descended into way too much one-on-one play at that point and over the following decade.

[NSDukeFan]

Totally fair, NSDukeFan. I remember that 2001 Sixers playoff run fondly -- I liked how they designed the whole team around their one transcendent talent and reached the heights they did -- but I can't deny the NBA descended into way too much one-on-one play at that point and over the following decade.

I can't fault Iverson here as he took a very untalented team to the finals. He certainly was fun to watch. I agree with you and just didn't like the style of play that this team and others used. This solidified my college over pro preference.

[Spret42]

Your final two statements are dead-on.

I'm a Knicks fan, so I find myself forced to defend them from a position of disadvantage. =) While fully admitting they had a deleterious effect on the whole with their physical brand of defense -- leading to figurative and sometimes literal slugfests with the Heat, which while inartistic were still high theater -- the overall level of play of the NBA stayed pretty high through most of the Ewing years, in large part due to Michael Jordan and the Bulls. Those Bulls teams were magnificent, and the playoffs were always tremendous.

Even after the Knicks screwed stuff up, you still had Vince Carter, Iverson and the Lakers keeping stuff exciting. I remember Bucks-Sixers in 2001 being a tremendous series -- Iverson spit blood inside his jersey so the refs couldn't see and make him come out! -- and I used to love the Nets-Celtics series back then.

All that said, I can't deny the Knicks eventually had a negative effect on the league, but the post-Jordan hangover (which includes his years on the Bullets) had just as much a negative effect, if not more. Not to mention, the league's always in better shape when the they have a good team in the New York market, and the Knicks happened to be much better when they were beating everyone up with Oakley and Mason.

Don't take what I said to mean I think every problem in the NBA in that time frame was a function of the Knicks. That is far from true. The Knicks were one part of a larger issue. I just don't like it when people throw the Pistons and the Knicks into one heap. On a spectrum of ugly physical basketball, I found the Knicks to be farther to one side than the Pistons.

What happened to the league in that eight year span from 1994 through 2002 was a function a natural hangover. Too many players, who didn't realize the amount of work that the "Dream Team" generation put in, tried to take over the league without really understanding or being willing to understand what it took to do it.

And I also agree with you and hate the "Jordan ruined the NBA" argument. That is a total crock.

[Starter]

Word. Understood. And I think you're right -- though Jordan is maligned for getting on the new generation's case for reaping benefits without putting the work in, there's at least some basis to it. (Where his argument is hypocritical is he got a shoe contract in the winter of 1984 before he had accomplished anything in the pros, and the lane was paved for him by Bird and Magic.)

[superdave]

Word. Understood. And I think you're right -- though Jordan is maligned for getting on the new generation's case for reaping benefits without putting the work in, there's at least some basis to it. (Where his argument is hypocritical is he got a shoe contract in the winter of 1984 before he had accomplished anything in the pros, and the lane was paved for him by Bird and Magic.)

Look at the guys who got big salaries before ever winning anything in the NBA -
Kenny Anderson, Derrick Coleman, Stephon Marbury, Shawn Bradley, etc.

These guys are the reason the league sucked in the 1990s and they had to re-do the rookie wage scale. I think that is probably Jordan's complaint. Remember Kucoc making more than Pippen?

[Starter]

Look at the guys who got big salaries before ever winning anything in the NBA -
Kenny Anderson, Derrick Coleman, Stephon Marbury, Shawn Bradley, etc.

These guys are the reason the league sucked in the 1990s and they had to re-do the rookie wage scale. I think that is probably Jordan's complaint. Remember Kucoc making more than Pippen?

I know, that was pretty crazy. And you're right, those guys never grew into their contracts. Guys like Glenn Robinson led to that first NBA lockout, the year after Jordan left, when the league's momentum crashed and burned.

Jordan's comments on Oprah (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37ZjiJb9Efk) always stuck in my mind, and they seemed directed at the LeBrons and Kobes of the world. (I like in this video Barkley sitting there uncomfortable, Oprah conveying that she knows this is a weird moment, and the crowd cheering without knowing what they're cheering for)

[CDu]

And if any of us are being honest with ourselves, we have to admit that the quality of play in college bball has declined dramatically over the last 20 years. Early entry has just butchered the college game. The intensity of the college game remains superior to the NBA, but if it wasn't for my personal investment in the Duke team I'd probably never watch the college game at all. Even with our '11 team, which was one of the best in the country, I can only count about 4-5 games that were well-played by BOTH teams.

I agree with this. It's interesting, because the level of athleticism and I'd even argue the average level of individual skill amongst college players is dramatically higher than it was 20 years ago. It's just that, 20 years ago, teams stayed together for several years and thus developed more team chemistry and coordination. The guys who were one-and-dones still usually stayed 3 years, and those guys often didn't even start as freshmen (in part because other one-and-done caliber guys were still ahead of them).

Conversely, the quality of play in the NBA is vastly superior to that of the college game today. This is true both offensively and defensively (despite people's protests that the NBA plays no defense). It's just that the rules so advantage the offense and players are so skilled and athletic that it's hard to prevent scoring.

[brevity]

Anyone who is still bashing the NBA is either doing for the unspoken reason most people do, or they just don't like basketball to begin with.

This is a bit of a generalization. The "unspoken reason" does not apply to every NBA detractor, even though casual TV viewers can't help but notice a racial divide between the really wealthy men in the foreground and the fans who still have a disposable income in the background. (I can't identify with either, but have no objection to their good fortune.) And I'm pretty sure I like basketball.

I'm not exactly ready to bash the NBA, but I am very disappointed with it. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, it's a better product than the college game -- and by that I mean that the level of play is uniformly better. But its appeal as a sport is greatly diminished by its months of meaninglessness and embarrassing predictability. By comparison, the college game -- despite some raw play and boneheaded decisions by many teams in many conferences -- is still event viewing, usually by December, and definitely by January.

This could be a personal flaw. I can't point to a long-ago past where I greatly admired the NBA and wished for those days to return. I just remember finding it more exciting then, that's all. Maybe I was more naive and hopeful at the time, and now I've outgrown it.

[Kfanarmy]

I also agree with the post you quoted. Anyone who is still bashing the NBA is either doing for the unspoken reason most people do, or they just don't like basketball to begin with .

Spret42; Can you please be specific here. I'm not sure why you would want to use the words "unspoken reason" when you seem to know what that reason is. Is there some reason you won't speak it?

I for one think the NBA has incredible talent, and find the playoffs immensely entertaining for the exhibition, but don't find it very entertaining for the first 72 or so games of the regular season. And for the last 10 years, I haven't really believed the playoffs are so much more competition than entertainment. Most of my issues are about the League offices, officials/officiating, and monetary interest in outcomes...is that the unspoken reason of which you speak?

[Spret42]

This is a bit of a generalization. The "unspoken reason" does not apply to every NBA detractor, even though casual TV viewers can't help but notice a racial divide between the really wealthy men in the foreground and the fans who still have a disposable income in the background. (I can't identify with either, but have no objection to their good fortune.) And I'm pretty sure I like basketball.

I'm not exactly ready to bash the NBA, but I am very disappointed with it. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, it's a better product than the college game -- and by that I mean that the level of play is uniformly better. But its appeal as a sport is greatly diminished by its months of meaninglessness and embarrassing predictability. By comparison, the college game -- despite some raw play and boneheaded decisions by many teams in many conferences -- is still event viewing, usually by December, and definitely by January.

This could be a personal flaw. I can't point to a long-ago past where I greatly admired the NBA and wished for those days to return. I just remember finding it more exciting then, that's all. Maybe I was more naive and hopeful at the time, and now I've outgrown it.

But you said it. "I am not ready to bash the NBA."

I was speaking of the types who go off on tangents about the NBA being "selfish" and the college kids "play the right way." Those types that bring up how the NBA doesn't play "team basketball." I am talking about those that claim the NBA is all "standing around taking turns seeing who can do the flashiest dunk" etc. I was talking about those who flat out just have NOTHING good to say and throw a blanket over the entire league. I am talking about those folks who when posed the question, "When was the last time you watched a game all the way through?" You get a blank stare and, "I don't have to watch it to know it sucks."

Your criticisms of the NBA are reasoned, rational and I actually agree with them. I would shorten the regular season, contract 2-4 teams and tighten up the product.

I for one can't watch much college ball because no matter how much the games "matter," I just have too much difficulty watching teams that simply aren't very good at basketball.

[Spret42]

Spret42; Can you please be specific here. I'm not sure why you would want to use the words "unspoken reason" when you seem to know what that reason is. Is there some reason you won't speak it?

I for one think the NBA has incredible talent, and find the playoffs immensely entertaining for the exhibition, but don't find it very entertaining for the first 72 or so games of the regular season. And for the last 10 years, I haven't really believed the playoffs are so much more competition than entertainment. Most of my issues are about the League offices, officials/officiating, and monetary interest in outcomes...is that the unspoken reason of which you speak?

See my previous post. I chose the phrase unspoken reason because I was describing what that type will and won't be willing to say. I really don't wanna create a firestorm with this. Cause it wasn't intended to be that way. I was talking about a very specific group of people who just bash away at the NBA. They will give all kinds of reasons but won't be honest about it. They will talk around it. They still see the league as too young, too thuggish, too hip hop and too black.

The league office, bad officials, monetary interest...sign me up for all of that. The NBA isn't perfect. But again, the type of reasoned criticisms of the league you make aren't the types I am referring too.

[Billy Dat]

It has been great watching all the Duke alums in the Bulls v Pacers series. The first two game have been great. At one point, Dunleavy, McRoberts, Deng and Boozer were all on the floor. Each is at an interesting point in their career - Dunleavy is the crafty vet trying to come back from injuries, Boozer the All Star starting the back end of his prime, Deng at the height of his powers a key cog on a title contender, McRoberts trying to transition from clueless freak athlete with upside to reliable rotation contributor. Deng, especially, is great to watch, he is all over the place on defense, making steals, getting boards, hawking his shot, etc. I have to give Psycho T a lot of credit, he plays the same game he played in college, with the addition of a solid 15-18 footer, and makes a lot happen out there. I didn't think his hyper-motor effort game would translate considering his earth-bound skills but it does.

The Pacers, Nuggets and Griz are all similar in that they throw out 9-10 players who are all pretty good. They lack stars but they come at you in waves. When Collison went down at PG for the Pacers, up stepped UConn's AJ Price and he played well. Those deep teams are fun to watch. I agree with whomever said it is fun to see some new blood in these playoffs. If you are a causal NBA fan, make sure you catch Derrick Rose - the kid is playing at an amazing level right now. Also, based on his first game, Duke fan favorite Chris Paul is making predictions of his demise seem premature (gimpy knee and all).

As a Knicks fan, I am glad to have a dog in the hunt, but don't expect them to beat the Celtics now that Billups is hurt (we had a small chance with him healthy). I am pulling for the Denver Knicks out West (so called because we gave up a good chunk of our team in the Melo trade - all solid fan favorite types), and find myself enjoying the all hole backcourt of Felton and Lawson. Despite years of hating the Bulls for crushing the Knicks, I am puling for Chicago so that more Devils can get rings...although the suddenly under the radar Heat may look better, right now, than anyone.

[Kfanarmy]

...They will talk around it. They still see the league as too young, too thuggish, too hip hop and too black... Perhaps most of them are just behind the times a bit. I think it was just as MJ was leaving the pro game (the 1st time) that the NBA went on an advertising drive to expand their market, got associated with gangsta rap a bit, and frankly there were some really "thuggish" elements on and off the court. Quite a bit has changed in the past decade...I'm not sure that concern is as much about the color of the characters as it is the colorful characters.

[Billy Dat]

The only thing that picked me up after the second consecutive devastating Knicks last minute loss was seeing JJ make a SportsCenter Top 10 play in last night's game to go along with his +13 +/- in 19 minutes.

[darjum]

Maybe I was more naive and hopeful at the time, and now I've outgrown it.

Agreed. Hate to think that 15-20 years ago basketball was more 'pure' to me and now I sometimes look at moments with jaded eyes. However in the 2010 NCAA championship game when Gordon Hayward banked one off the glass I was 10 years old again!

[darjum]

You look at the numbers that Dwight Howard has put up this year (including his two playoff games) and it makes you wonder how good this guy can be. If he had a few more guys with a mentality like JJ on his team then they could be a serious contender again. As it stands, regardless of if they knock off the Hawks or not, it appears that Orlando may waste some of Dwight's prime years (similar to KG in Minnesota).

When the Magic made the Final a few years ago Dwight was not nearly as good as he is now. Hope the Magic can get some roster flexibility to surround him with players capable of following Dwight's lead. At least they dumped Vince Carter, always a good start.

[superdave]

Two things were surprising about the C's win over the Knicks last night. First, Rondo scored 30. That may very well be his season high. He does not shoot a whole lot. Second, the C's barely won when it was them vs. Carmelo. They really need to start playing better or the Heat will roll over them in round 2. Granted, they are up 2-0, but they did not seem pleased to have pulled off two close wins.

[Billy Dat]

Two things were surprising about the C's win over the Knicks last night. First, Rondo scored 30. That may very well be his season high. He does not shoot a whole lot. Second, the C's barely won when it was them vs. Carmelo. They really need to start playing better or the Heat will roll over them in round 2. Granted, they are up 2-0, but they did not seem pleased to have pulled off two close wins.

Here's an explanation for Rondo's 30. Billups was out with an injury so the Knicks were reduced to 2 point guards, Toney Douglas and Anthony Carter. Douglas got in early foul trouble so Rondo kept driving at him and got lay-up after lay-up. He barely scored outside of 5 feet because he was facing no defensive pressure. I think the Knicks should have brought Carter in earlier, but the Knicks needed Douglas' scoring. The Celtics don't look like a contender at all. The Knicks have been playing well, especially on defense, but the Celtics look old and tired. Maybe it's a bad match-up, but I don't think so. If they make the Finals, it will be a miraculous turnaround.

[superdave]

You look at the numbers that Dwight Howard has put up this year (including his two playoff games) and it makes you wonder how good this guy can be. If he had a few more guys with a mentality like JJ on his team then they could be a serious contender again. As it stands, regardless of if they knock off the Hawks or not, it appears that Orlando may waste some of Dwight's prime years (similar to KG in Minnesota).

When the Magic made the Final a few years ago Dwight was not nearly as good as he is now. Hope the Magic can get some roster flexibility to surround him with players capable of following Dwight's lead. At least they dumped Vince Carter, always a good start.

Howard may be the best athlete in the NBA. His skills are becoming more polished. The thing that would really concern me though if I were a Magic fan is his demeanor on the court. He has led the league in technicals over the past few years and always seems to be I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.ing at the refs and smiling like he knows the tv cameras are on him. He comes across to me as really immature and not very focused. He rarely sets out to destroy an opponent or to play like a possessed animal for 40 minutes. He coasts at times and makes dumb mistakes for a guy who came into the league in 2004.

Howard has the ability to step it up another notch or two - 26-27 ppg, 60+ wins - because of the lack of quality centers around the league. But has to grow up and has to want it more. At this point in his career, I dont know if he will ever be more than an immature, happy-go-lucky kid who loves blocking shots into the 3rd row and dunking on people. Disappointing if the switch never flips in his head.

[DukeGirl4ever]

Howard may be the best athlete in the NBA. His skills are becoming more polished. The thing that would really concern me though if I were a Magic fan is his demeanor on the court. He has led the league in technicals over the past few years and always seems to be I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.ing at the refs and smiling like he knows the tv cameras are on him. He comes across to me as really immature and not very focused. He rarely sets out to destroy an opponent or to play like a possessed animal for 40 minutes. He coasts at times and makes dumb mistakes for a guy who came into the league in 2004.


I don't watch a lot of NBA games, so please correct me if I'm wrong. In the games that I have seen Dwight play, he gets manhandled down low. And, I don't mean that the other guys are stronger or more tough than he is...I mean it's almost like the "Jordan Rules" when it comes to Dwight. They are extremely physical with him and I believe he gets very frustrated with the lack of non-calls. Does that justify his reaction? No, definitely not, but I'm not sure I could keep my cool night in and night out.

Watching the highlights from last night, I am amazed at his improvement with his offensive skill set. He could not make or finish some of those moves years ago.

[Starter]

If Dwight wants to be fouled less, he should try shooting over 60% from the line one of these years. They can't call everything, and the rest of his game is just so good.

Rondo getting 30 reminded me of Nash destroying the Mavs back in 2005 when they played him to pass. He had 48 in one game, then 39 in another to eliminate them. Rondo was taking what the Knicks were giving him by backing off his shot. Instead of just passing out of that, he was taking it right at them. I'm a Knicks fan, but I had to admit it was pretty awesome.

[DukeGirl4ever]

If Dwight wants to be fouled less, he should try shooting over 60% from the line one of these years. They can't call everything, and the rest of his game is just so good.


Spot on. I agree with this assessment....they can't call everything, but they if are consistent with the calls from the beginning, that would perhaps limit the foul play and Dwight's frustration. And I don't know if the man-handling is a reason for Dwight's frustration or not. I have been told I over-analyze things a lot! :D

[superdave]

Honestly a better reaction than whining and drawing techs would be for Howard to pop some 2nd-stringer in the mouth, take the 3 game suspension, but serve notice to the rest of the league that he's The Man. Hitting FTs would help too. But it seems pretty clear that Dwight is not focused on dominating and winning the way he should be.

Barkley, Malone and Shaq all got hacked, but they came out swinging every once in a while and you knew not to mess with them. Crude but effective.

[lazee]

JJ's hustle play earned Top 10 Play on SportsCenter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPDc6gjAex4

It was indeed a great play which shifted momentum in the game. Up until then, Orlando didn't seem to be playing with any urgency. It also got the crowd going.

[elvis14]

If Dwight wants to be fouled less, he should try shooting over 60% from the line one of these years.

The issue isn't the number of times he gets fouled, it's the percentage of the fouls that get called. DH is like the anti-Jordan or anti-Paul_Pierce...instead of getting the benefit of the doubt that most NBA stars get, he gets hammered with no or few calls. You can't hit your free throws when you aren't at the free throw line after getting hammered.

That said, I do think that DH would be wise to go live with JJ Redick this off season and learn how to shoot FT's ;) I also think that DH needs to handle his frustration a little better. How many times has SVG been fined for brining this up?

[pfrduke]

The issue isn't the number of times he gets fouled, it's the percentage of the fouls that get called. DH is like the anti-Jordan or anti-Paul_Pierce...instead of getting the benefit of the doubt that most NBA stars get, he gets hammered with no or few calls. You can't hit your free throws when you aren't at the free throw line after getting hammered.

That said, I do think that DH would be wise to go live with JJ Redick this off season and learn how to shoot FT's ;) I also think that DH needs to handle his frustration a little better. How many times has SVG been fined for brining this up?

Well, Howard has led the league in FTAs 3 of the last 4 years and has shot more than 10 free throws per game each of the last 4 years. It's not like he isn't getting any calls. He gets to the line about as much as Shaq did at his peak (and more often than Jordan or Pierce).

[phaedrus]

Honestly a better reaction than whining and drawing techs would be for Howard to pop some 2nd-stringer in the mouth, take the 3 game suspension, but serve notice to the rest of the league that he's The Man. Hitting FTs would help too. But it seems pretty clear that Dwight is not focused on dominating and winning the way he should be.

Barkley, Malone and Shaq all got hacked, but they came out swinging every once in a while and you knew not to mess with them. Crude but effective.

Exactly. How do you think Wayne Gretzky went a whole career without getting body-checked? And Dwight doesn't need a sidekick to do the dirty work for him.

Your point about taking the suspension is especially true if he's going to be suspended for taking too many T's anyway.

[darjum]

Spot on. I agree with this assessment....they can't call everything, but they if are consistent with the calls from the beginning, that would perhaps limit the foul play and Dwight's frustration. And I don't know if the man-handling is a reason for Dwight's frustration or not. I have been told I over-analyze things a lot! :D

The interesting element to all of this is that he will be a free agent in the not too distant future. Personally I feel part of his massive jump in technicals this year is that he sees the team he is on as not being elite. Earlier in his career he was just making the jump to All-star caliber player, then onto team success (NBA Finals trip), now he sees multiple teams overtaking his team and as his skills improve his teammates get worse. Therefore leading to a superstar coming into his prime realizing that unless he gets some help a team within his own division (Miami) will own the NBA championship for a few years, hence a grumpy and frustrated Dwight.

[pless55]

The Thunder rolled the Nuggets tonight. I still think that they are going to make a surprise run at the NBA Finals this year. Probably next year. A couple of years away. I hope they keep on playing this well. From the action that I saw tonight I was gone most of the day. I saw Paul play. Great point guard. And a juicy rumor??? Paul to the Bobcats??

[Starter]

The interesting element to all of this is that he will be a free agent in the not too distant future. Personally I feel part of his massive jump in technicals this year is that he sees the team he is on as not being elite. Earlier in his career he was just making the jump to All-star caliber player, then onto team success (NBA Finals trip), now he sees multiple teams overtaking his team and as his skills improve his teammates get worse. Therefore leading to a superstar coming into his prime realizing that unless he gets some help a team within his own division (Miami) will own the NBA championship for a few years, hence a grumpy and frustrated Dwight.

It's interesting with Howard, because it's almost like he has to be his own enforcer. Other stars have had some goon who they know would go out and put someone on the deck if they get roughed up. Howard's the only really significant player on his team, and by far the only guy resembling an enforcer. I'm not seeing him staying there, and with the rumors that he has eyes for the Lakers, it could be like Shaquille all over again.

I wonder if he'd consider the Nets, if Deron stays there. It'd be an opportunity to play with a big-time playmaker on a team moving to an interesting market with cap space. I know the Nets are, well, the Nets, but they're going to have a shiny new building in an interesting sports market.

[darjum]

It's interesting with Howard, because it's almost like he has to be his own enforcer. Other stars have had some goon who they know would go out and put someone on the deck if they get roughed up. Howard's the only really significant player on his team, and by far the only guy resembling an enforcer. I'm not seeing him staying there, and with the rumors that he has eyes for the Lakers, it could be like Shaquille all over again.

I wonder if he'd consider the Nets, if Deron stays there. It'd be an opportunity to play with a big-time playmaker on a team moving to an interesting market with cap space. I know the Nets are, well, the Nets, but they're going to have a shiny new building in an interesting sports market.

I agree with your point about an enforcer; earlier in this thread you said that you're a Knick fan, wouldn't a Charles Oakley type player be perfect for Dwight. In the same way Oak protected Ewing for all of those physical wars during the 90's, Dwight needs someone who will act as the same physical deterrent to all of the hard fouls he gets.

[darjum]

Great to see the Spurs bounce back today, should be a good series now. Do wish Rudy Gay was playing though.

Did the Nuggets just shut down today because they were flat about getting hosed in Game 1 or is this it for them? OKC looks a tad bit scary. If the Spurs have a 6-7 game series with Memphis and OKC rolls Denver in 4-5 games, Rnd 2 could get nasty for the Spurs real fast.

[Acymetric]

I agree with your point about an enforcer; earlier in this thread you said that you're a Knick fan, wouldn't a Charles Oakley type player be perfect for Dwight. In the same way Oak protected Ewing for all of those physical wars during the 90's, Dwight needs someone who will act as the same physical deterrent to all of the hard fouls he gets.

Problem is its hard to do that in the 4 out 1 in offense...that 4th perimeter guy usually isn't someone that'll mix it up down low in a really physical manner.

[darjum]

Problem is its hard to do that in the 4 out 1 in offense...that 4th perimeter guy usually isn't someone that'll mix it up down low in a really physical manner.

That offense won't work for Dwight moving forward; if his offense game becomes a prominent feature of his value then he needs defensive help down low, he can't do it all himself. Otherwise he'll have a Wilt Chamberlain career, great stats, very few titles.

[Starter]

I agree with your point about an enforcer; earlier in this thread you said that you're a Knick fan, wouldn't a Charles Oakley type player be perfect for Dwight. In the same way Oak protected Ewing for all of those physical wars during the 90's, Dwight needs someone who will act as the same physical deterrent to all of the hard fouls he gets.

Absolutely, that's exactly who I had in mind. In fact, I think Oak's picture is next to the word "enforcer" in the dictionary. When the Bulls traded Oakley, Jordan was furious about it because he thought the Pistons, etc., would just rough him up with nobody to get his back. But Bill Cartwright, who they got back, used to give Ewing fits.

Sidebar -- for a guy who was certainly the best player I've ever seen, Jordan was not then, and isn't now, a personnel expert. I mean, the guy wanted Joe Wolf over Pippen. Of course, if he had one thing right, he also wanted Johnny Dawkins over colossal bust Brad Sellers. Not that JD was an amazing pro, but that would have been a far better pick, and a guy who could have contributed to those teams.

[darjum]

Absolutely, that's exactly who I had in mind. In fact, I think Oak's picture is next to the word "enforcer" in the dictionary. When the Bulls traded Oakley, Jordan was furious about it because he thought the Pistons, etc., would just rough him up with nobody to get his back. But Bill Cartwright, who they got back, used to give Ewing fits.

Sidebar -- for a guy who was certainly the best player I've ever seen, Jordan was not then, and isn't now, a personnel expert. I mean, the guy wanted Joe Wolf over Pippen. Of course, if he had one thing right, he also wanted Johnny Dawkins over colossal bust Brad Sellers. Not that JD was an amazing pro, but that would have been a far better pick, and a guy who could have contributed to those teams.

I'm not a huge Isiah Thomas fan as GM, but at least he has a better eye for talent than MJ. Everybody rips Isiah (deservedly) for his contract choices but MJ doesn't receive the same venom for his atrocious GM record. Poor draft picks (except Gerald Henderson of course :cool:) and terrible trades have left two organizations licking their wounds. Of course he didn't ruin the Knicks, which is a major -ve for Isiah.

As someone who appreciated and could analyze hoops in the 90's, MJ is also the best player I have ever seen. But that cuts out about 40 years of watching. I guess he's the GOAT, but maybe there has been better, Russell does have 11 rings after all. Sucks that MJ went to UNC, but nobodies perfect.

As with many players, injuries took away much of what Dawkins could have been. In the thread about Duke's #2 greatest NBA player after G.Hill, I believe had Dawkin's body not betrayed him he would have been a special talent. Maybe not number 2, but right up there.

[Billy Dat]

Because someone brought up Isiah, those interested in an extremely interesting interview with him should check out Jason Whitlock's new recurring podcast, "Real Talk with Jason Whitlock". The 4/6 episode featured an interview with Zeke where he states his claim as being as good as Magic and Bird and that he never gets that kind of credit, addresses the rumor that he substantiated the "Magic got AIDS from gay sex" rumors, and addresses the "Larry Bird would be considered just another player if he were black" comments he made back in the 80s.

Back on the playoffs, based on what I've seen, and I haven't seen Miami, I think this year is more wide open then it has ever been. I see no reason why the Thunder or Bulls can't make the jump to title winner because I think the Celtics are over the hill and the Lakers have lost a step.

[darjum]

Because someone brought up Isiah, those interested in an extremely interesting interview with him should check out Jason Whitlock's new recurring podcast, "Real Talk with Jason Whitlock". The 4/6 episode featured an interview with Zeke where he states his claim as being as good as Magic and Bird and that he never gets that kind of credit, addresses the rumor that he substantiated the "Magic got AIDS from gay sex" rumors, and addresses the "Larry Bird would be considered just another player if he were black" comments he made back in the 80s.

Back on the playoffs, based on what I've seen, and I haven't seen Miami, I think this year is more wide open then it has ever been. I see no reason why the Thunder or Bulls can't make the jump to title winner because I think the Celtics are over the hill and the Lakers have lost a step.

I brought up Isiah and realistically I can't speak to his nature as a player, as I only started watching American basketball at the beginning of the 90's when he was passed his prime and MJ and the Bulls had just started their run. From what I read and a few old games I have seen he did seem dynamic, but Magic and Bird were half a foot taller and in Magic's case almost a full foot taller. Sometimes you just can't beat height. Certainly a HOF player though.

Indeed, back to the playoffs. I agree with your assessment of both the Bulls and Thunder, but I feel with both teams this is their year to 'learn a hard lesson'. I feel the Thunder are more likely than the Bulls, something about Durant just screams winner. I have a feeling over a 7 game playoff war some of Rose's teammates may not come through for him (none who previously wore Duke uniform obviously :p) and the hole at shooting guard will become an issue.

Like most of the basketball watching public I wasn't in love with how Miami came together last off season, but if I were every other team I would be very scared. Basically every game they played this year was like the opposing teams playoff game and a regular season full of that scrutiny and criticism may bring them together so they can just play basketball in the playoffs. To be honest I hope they don't win it all, but any team with that much talent can't be held down forever.

[Billy Dat]

Isiah was truly an amazing player, one of the greatest ever to play point guard, and probably the greatest of his physical stature. It is too bad the rest of the package was so far from ideal, from the odd and cutting comments that come from his mouth, to his horrendous tenure as a front office executive (although he did well in the NBA drafts), to his less than stellar coaching gigs, to his various legal issues. BUT, his bad rep punches heavier than its weight -he has no felonies on record, etc. He never fails to put his foot in his mouth.

I hear you about the Bulls and Thunder - I have just been so unimpressed by the Celtics and Lakers that I feel like the time is ripe for any of these teams to get hot and grab the brass ring. I agree that the Bulls seem to do a lot of Derrick Rose watching, but the guys is so unstoppable right now that it may be an ok offensive strategy.

Fellow Knicks fans - where do you stand on D'Antoni's coaching this series? I have been defending him, but am starting to lean toward the "he has stunk" camp. Critics are pointing to the fact that he has no timeouts left at the end of the game, his team was not ready to foul with 4 seconds left being down 1, and that he had a bad offensive line-up on the floor for the last possession. What say you?

[darjum]

Fellow Knicks fans - where do you stand on D'Antoni's coaching this series? I have been defending him, but am starting to lean toward the "he has stunk" camp. Critics are pointing to the fact that he has no timeouts left at the end of the game, his team was not ready to foul with 4 seconds left being down 1, and that he had a bad offensive line-up on the floor for the last possession. What say you?

Critics also point out that he can only coach to his system (hence passing on certain players, Corey Brewer springs to mind) if they don't fit his needs. I did enjoy his Phoenix teams and it's hard to gauge his NY tenure do to the above mentioned Isiah Thomas wreck. I'm not a Knickss fan, but I enjoy the NBA a lot more when basketball is relevant in NY. I hope he gets one more year with a solid roster. But if the Knicks stink up Game 3, watch out Mike D.

[sagegrouse]

Fellow Knicks fans - where do you stand on D'Antoni's coaching this series? I have been defending him, but am starting to lean toward the "he has stunk" camp. Critics are pointing to the fact that he has no timeouts left at the end of the game, his team was not ready to foul with 4 seconds left being down 1, and that he had a bad offensive line-up on the floor for the last possession. What say you?

I'm not a Knick fan, but.... The Knicks were able to play the Celtics almost dead even with only one offensive weapon. Of course, the Celtics took the Knicks out of their preferred play in the last minute. The questions is, why didn't they do it earlier in the game and put it out of reach? And why did the Celtics miss so many makeable shots by Pierce and Allen before the last play by Garnett?

I think the talk about the "Celtics being tough in the clutch" is as far from the truth as one can imagine. They almost got beat by a team with two of its three most important players out of action.

D'Antoni did fine. Yeah, I know, Knicks and New York fans will criticize any coach who doesn't win. But really...

sagegrouse
'OTOH I really enjoyed the Caps comeback win against New York last night'

[theAlaskanBear]

Isiah was truly an amazing player, one of the greatest ever to play point guard, and probably the greatest of his physical stature. It is too bad the rest of the package was so far from ideal, from the odd and cutting comments that come from his mouth, to his horrendous tenure as a front office executive (although he did well in the NBA drafts), to his less than stellar coaching gigs, to his various legal issues. BUT, his bad rep punches heavier than its weight -he has no felonies on record, etc. He never fails to put his foot in his mouth.

I hear you about the Bulls and Thunder - I have just been so unimpressed by the Celtics and Lakers that I feel like the time is ripe for any of these teams to get hot and grab the brass ring. I agree that the Bulls seem to do a lot of Derrick Rose watching, but the guys is so unstoppable right now that it may be an ok offensive strategy.

Fellow Knicks fans - where do you stand on D'Antoni's coaching this series? I have been defending him, but am starting to lean toward the "he has stunk" camp. Critics are pointing to the fact that he has no timeouts left at the end of the game, his team was not ready to foul with 4 seconds left being down 1, and that he had a bad offensive line-up on the floor for the last possession. What say you?

They are only a couple of missed shots away from being up 2-0 on Eastern Conference kings the Celtics. If that happens, we are talking about how a coach with two great players but a completely deficient lineup in all other regards took down the Boston Celtics.

My guess is that there WAS a player supposed to foul, but that he ended up way out of position. Melo wasnt even close to the dude.

So I think it's jumping the gun a bit to be judging him. The Knicks have been out of the playoffs for almost a decade. Clearly the team isn't quite there yet. A bigger test of coaching will be to see if the Knicks can climb to that 3-4 seed range in the next couple of years.

[Billy Dat]

I am with you...I want to defend D'Antoni and agree with what you have all said...the majority of the criticism is coming in how the team has handled the final few possessions of the first two games. He also looks bad when compared to Rivers who has made some great calls...the out of bounds play alley oop in Game 1 and the play call for KG in Game 2 where he hit the hook over Jeffries...Doc designed the play so Rondo would be under the hoop as he was the only potential guy who the defender could leave to double KG (the Knicks were not going to leave Allen, Pierce or West). Rondo's defender was under the hoop, behind Jeffries, and out of position to help lest he leave Rondo with a lay-up. So, he got KG a on-on-one where if anyone leaves their man, there is a solid/great Celtic with a wide open jumper or Rondo with a lay-up. Doc has really grown as a coach, he's right up there with the best right now. Of course, having a veteran team that's won a title and starts 2-3 Hall of Famers tends to make a coach look good.

FYI - This site has been doing awesome scouting reports and X and O breakdowns of the playoffs:
http://nbaplaybook.com/

[bundabergdevil]

Not sure if anyone noticed that former Terps guard Steve Blake returned to the Lakers line-up this last game after an absence of a week or so. Did he have an injury that kept him sidelined? Not exactly, he was stricken with a bout of the chicken pox - http://lakersblog.latimes.com/lakersblog/2011/04/blake-sidelined-indefinitely-becasue-of-chicken-pox-barnes-game-time-decision.html

Between this and his poetic descriptions of Johnny Rockets, I'm beginning to suspect that Steve Blake is the best 10 year old in the NBA!

[sagegrouse]

Not sure if anyone noticed that former Terps guard Steve Blake returned to the Lakers line-up this last game after an absence of a week or so. Did he have an injury that kept him sidelined? Not exactly, he was stricken with a bout of the chicken pox -

Between this and his poetic descriptions of Johnny Rockets, I'm beginning to suspect that Steve Blake is the best 10 year old in the NBA!

Hmmmm...... The "adult version" of chicken pox, I believe, is "[URL="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0001861/"]shingles (http://lakersblog.latimes.com/lakersblog/2011/04/blake-sidelined-indefinitely-becasue-of-chicken-pox-barnes-game-time-decision.html)" (Herpes Zoster), which is no laughing matter to those who get it. I wonder what's going on?

sagegrouse

[bundabergdevil]

Yeah, I checked a few sites before posting for that very reason. Like you said, shingles isn't something to be trifled with and I certainly wouldn't wish that sort of thing on anyone. But, by all accounts, he just has the chicken pox, was out with it for a week, and is now back in the line-up.

Just sort of a weird reason to be out for a playoff game (any game, really) at his age. Maybe he didn't get them as a kid or something....

[94duke]

Yeah, I checked a few sites before posting for that very reason. Like you said, shingles isn't something to be trifled with and I certainly wouldn't wish that sort of thing on anyone. But, by all accounts, he just has the chicken pox, was out with it for a week, and is now back in the line-up.

Just sort of a weird reason to be out for a playoff game (any game, really) at his age. Maybe he didn't get them as a kid or something....

He's not the only Laker to not get it as a kid...
Kobe Bryant, Ron Artest, and Andrew Bynum
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/gameon/post/2011/04/lakers-chicken-pox-kobe-bryant-ron-artest-andrew-bynum/1

[moonpie23]

50% of the players in the pacers/bulls game on the floor right now are from duke

[darjum]

50% of the players in the pacers/bulls game on the floor right now are from duke

The East in general is loaded with ex-Duke players. Now if only Battier would make his way East I'd feel a lot better :p

[Newton_14]

There has been some very good points made in this thread on all sides regarding the state of both the College and NBA game. Props to all for their input.

I do not have a lot to add but just a couple of points from my view. I having been watching Bball religiously since the early 70's. College Basketball is my first love, and nothing will ever change that. Just a personal preference. Just love it. My love for the NBA game peaked in the mid-late 80's with the run of the Sixers-Celtics-Lakers-Pistons, though I did enjoy watching the Bull teams of the 2 Jordan era's.

I feel a few factors negatively impacted both game's. NBA expansion combined with mass early-entry by kids with games nowhere near NBA ready, really hurt the NBA game. It just led to a lot of teams with subpar talent and poor fundamentals. The NBA game has recovered and has improved significantly in the last 10 years, though the bottom feeders still suffer. The top teams are back to being really good though.

The college game has been significantly impacted by early-entry as well. The teams are just too young. I still love it, but there is a reason we saw Butler and VCU in the Final Four this year. The top teams while good, are very vunerable to upset. I mentioned that the NBA game recovered, question is, will the College game? Not sure. Things tend to go in cycles so we wait it out and see. The NBA One-and-Done Rule will have to change first though.

The only other point I have, is regarding the 24 Second shot clock. I hate it, but that is just me. Again, personal preference. I just feel it elimates the ability to run a team oriented offense and promotes more one on one play. Would rather the clock be set to 30 or even 35. Like others, would also like to see a shorter regular season and a different playoff format as well.

[roywhite]

Not directly related to the playoffs, but it's great to see the success players from the 2010 FIBA World Championship team have had this season.

They're dominating individual awards with Kevin Love being named most improved (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/twolves/2011-04-21-love-nbamostimproved_N.htm), Lamar Odom selected as 6th Man of the Year, and Derrick Rose a strong favorite for MVP.

Kevin Durant and Russell Westbrook have the Thunder in position to make a deep playoff run.

It all reflects well on Coach K and the team basketball we saw last summer when this "B team" of USA players swept through the FIBA field.

[darjum]

I feel a few factors negatively impacted both game's. NBA expansion combined with mass early-entry by kids with games nowhere near NBA ready, really hurt the NBA game. It just led to a lot of teams with subpar talent and poor fundamentals. The NBA game has recovered and has improved significantly in the last 10 years, though the bottom feeders still suffer. The top teams are back to being really good though.

Living in Australia I had no exposure to NBA basketball in the 80's. But in the early 90's I was able to see quite a few games, both college and pro. Coincidentally the third game of college basketball I ever watched was the regional final between Duke and Kentucky in 92, hence I now find myself writing on the DBR board nearly 20 years later! But back to my main point, I began watching pro basketball when Miami, Charlotte, Orlando and Minnesota entered the league, which at the time I assumed was somewhat normal. I know realize 20 years later that this was the beginning of the dilution of talent. Throw in Toronto and and Vancouver and you move from 24 to 30 teams, without an additional talent pool to access other then the college game. The foreign explosion came not too long after, increasing the talent pool somewhat, but not too much.

Hence began the drain, and basically required pilfering of the college game. I still recall the uproar when Garnett skipped high school and the subsequent high school to pro trend, and the new craze of the one and done generation. I can never blame the athletes for their choice, as I don't hold anything against Kyrie, just thank him for his input into my enjoyment of Duke basketball. But I do feel a trifle dissapointed that I wasn't aware or able to view college hoops in the 80's and early 90's, it really seemed like a special time for the sport.

Obviously contraction of the NBA would benefit all leagues from a talent stand point but I think we all know that $ talks and the chance of contraction is small. Changes to age requirements would also assist both leagues, but how do you tell an 18 year old LeBron James he can't go pro when he clearly entered the league as a top 20 talent. Instead, LeBron, Dwayne and Chris subjugated the process and made what would have been possible 20 years ago, a team with 3 high quality players on it. Stinks for the teams that lost their superstars but maybe this is the way to bring back a sense of excitement to what has become some what of a predictable NBA climate.

Regardless, like you I find college basketball more enjoyable to watch, but will always enjoy the NBA as it is the ultimate destination for the players we enjoy from a college perspective. Just as I can't wait to see Kyrie's transition to the pros.

[Steven Allen]

First off, I gotta say this is a wonderful thread. Lot's of real in depth posts here that I appreciate.

My two cents: D'Antoni is a system coach that is very good at what he does. Given the requisite pieces, he can create a contender, which is what the Knicks are on the way to. I wouldnt put too much stock into this NY-BOS series, it was clear that Boston was the better, more experienced team from the beginning.

[darjum]

Not directly related to the playoffs, but it's great to see the success players from the 2010 FIBA World Championship team have had this season.

They're dominating individual awards with Kevin Love being named most improved (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/twolves/2011-04-21-love-nbamostimproved_N.htm), Lamar Odom selected as 6th Man of the Year, and Derrick Rose a strong favorite for MVP.

Kevin Durant and Russell Westbrook have the Thunder in position to make a deep playoff run.

It all reflects well on Coach K and the team basketball we saw last summer when this "B team" of USA players swept through the FIBA field.

I'm from Australia and I would love to get an American perspective on what sort of team you'd like to see at the next Olympics for the US. Same as the 2008 Olympic team, full of superstars, or like the 2010 FIBA team, full of potential stars ready to blossom?

[Spret42]

The only other point I have, is regarding the 24 Second shot clock. I hate it, but that is just me. Again, personal preference. I just feel it elimates the ability to run a team oriented offense and promotes more one on one play. Would rather the clock be set to 30 or even 35. Like others, would also like to see a shorter regular season and a different playoff format as well.

The flip side to that argument is because the NBA is full of highly skilled players who can score in a variety of ways, there isn't as much need for a "team-oriented" offense in order to score.

The need for 25-30 seconds of teams running screen after screen, pass after pass, in order to get a lay up isn't really necessary at the NBA level. That kind of offense is for players/teams who aren't as skilled and require more structure.

At the NBA level, where you have a variety of players who can score in variety of ways, offense can be a simple as a two man pick and roll, running a shooter of a baseline screen for an open 20 footer he will hit 60% of the time or forcing a switch, recognizing a mismatch and then spacing the floor and letting your scorer do work.

That doesn't mean there isn't a call at times for team oriented, five men involved offense, cause you do see it a lot. It is just in the NBA, you don't need 30 seconds to get a good shot, they get quality shots in 15-18 seconds.

[superdave]

I'm from Australia and I would love to get an American perspective on what sort of team you'd like to see at the next Olympics for the US. Same as the 2008 Olympic team, full of superstars, or like the 2010 FIBA team, full of potential stars ready to blossom?

I dont think it really matters if we have superstars like the Redeem Team of 2008 or if it's younger guys like 2010. I think two things matter - Guys are busting their tails to get on the team; Coach K has them all on the same page.

Kevin Durant, Blake Griffin and Derrick Rose will be the key additions to the core from 2008. I'd also argue that Kevin Love should be there. Dropping off from the 2008 squad would be Boozer, Kidd, Prince and Redd. Deron Williams is likely to have to fight it out for a spot with Westbrook, Curry and Gordon. Or Paul could potentially opt out if his knee is acting up. That's my take, although there's always a surprise or two.

[JasonEvans]

I dont think it really matters if we have superstars like the Redeem Team of 2008 or if it's younger guys like 2010. I think two things matter - Guys are busting their tails to get on the team; Coach K has them all on the same page.

Kevin Durant, Blake Griffin and Derrick Rose will be the key additions to the core from 2008. I'd also argue that Kevin Love should be there. Dropping off from the 2008 squad would be Boozer, Kidd, Prince and Redd. Deron Williams is likely to have to fight it out for a spot with Westbrook, Curry and Gordon. Or Paul could potentially opt out if his knee is acting up. That's my take, although there's always a surprise or two.

I suspect a fair number of the 2008 stars will opt out this time both to allow other guys a shot at a Gold Medal and also because they want a break. I especially think slightly older guys like Kobe and Jason Kidd would not mind a summer off.

I agree that Prince and Redd will not be back. Redd's career seems close to over and he is just not a factor in the NBA any more. Prince is still about the same player as in 2008, but he is not among the elite players in the league and there are some far more deserving guys out there who do not yet have a Gold Medal.

That's 4 spots that are open... at a minimum. I suspect the rest of the guys -- including Boozer -- will have the option to come back and try to make it again, but no one is going to be guaranteed a spot and several may decline it. It will be interesting to see if K and Collangelo require guys to come to camp this summer to play in some exhibition games (we don't have to qualify for the Olympics as defending champs) if they want to be considered for next year's team. We may see a weeding out process begin now if K again wants a 2-year commitment from guys.

My bet is that we end up with a mix of 4-6 of the guys from 2008 combined with new stars like Durant, Westbrook, Love, Griffin, Rose and others. I wonder if Rondo will take another shot at it?

-Jason "as we saw last summer, even with none of the 2008 Redeem Team stars, the US is a major favorite in any international competition" Evans

[JasonEvans]

I thought folks might enjoy reading some of this article from Yahoo's NBA blog (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Chicago-puts-the-Pacers-on-the-brink-up-3-0?urn=nba-wp1898). It talks about how physical and intense the Bulls-Pacers series has been, but the part people will enjoy is the effusive praise heaped upon Luol Deng.


The weariest of all the Bulls would have to be do-it-all forward Luol Deng, who was an all-around terror with 21 points, six boards and six assists. Deng couldn't add to any of those numbers in the fourth quarter, however, as he was clearly pained and fatigued from playing each and every minute of the first three quarters of the game. Though Deng's effort never let up, he was constantly grabbing at his shorts and hips throughout the second half and collapsing into the Bulls bench at every timeout.

Luol is averaging 42 minutes per game in the post-season. As much as Rose runs the offense and grabs all the headlines, Deng is the glue that holds the team together in so many different ways. He has turned into the stud that everyone** knew he would be when he left Duke.

--Jason "**- except Billy Knight, the stupidest GM in NBA history... Josh Childress instead of Deng.... really?!@?!?!?!" Evans

[superdave]

I suspect a fair number of the 2008 stars will opt out this time both to allow other guys a shot at a Gold Medal and also because they want a break. I especially think slightly older guys like Kobe and Jason Kidd would not mind a summer off.


I think Kobe is obsessed enough with his career accomplishments and legacy that he will play if he is healthy. Another Gold Medal would look nice on his resume. Also, accounts from that 2008 team hinted at just how much Kobe loved being a part of that group, being cool and accepted by his teammates.

He also took over at the end of the Gold Medal game vs. Spain. I will always admire him for stepping up in that moment.

Is Kidd 50 yet? (kidding, sort of)

There's a glut of really talented PGs - Paul, Williams and Rose would be my top 3; Westbrook, Rondo and Wall would be next. We're missing that kind of depth at the 2 though, so Curry and Gordon have got a really good shot.

Super "I hope to see Gordon, Griffin and the Clippers in the NBA playoffs next year" Dave

[darjum]

I thought folks might enjoy reading some of this article from Yahoo's NBA blog (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Chicago-puts-the-Pacers-on-the-brink-up-3-0?urn=nba-wp1898). It talks about how physical and intense the Bulls-Pacers series has been, but the part people will enjoy is the effusive praise heaped upon Luol Deng.



Luol is averaging 42 minutes per game in the post-season. As much as Rose runs the offense and grabs all the headlines, Deng is the glue that holds the team together in so many different ways. He has turned into the stud that everyone** knew he would be when he left Duke.

--Jason "**- except Billy Knight, the stupidest GM in NBA history... Josh Childress instead of Deng.... really?!@?!?!?!" Evans

As someone who follows the NBA reasonably closely you don't find a lot written about Deng. This despite him being one of the most efficient players when healthy. I guess his body betrayed him for a few years hence leading to his quiet profile.

I do sometimes secretly wonder what the 05 and 06 Duke teams would have been like with So & Jr Deng. I think the 06 team would have been special. But I guess every major program that lost players early to the draft can say the same thing...

But yes, the Pacer's series is great for the Bulls as at least the Pacer's play hard and furious. Not sure the Hawks or the Magic will be as frenetic as Indiana, more skilled definitely, but not as intense.

[darjum]

"Who's your Daddy" now New York. That was an absolute beat down today. I thought NY matched up well with the Celtics...I was wrong...dead wrong. If anybody believes that C.Billups would have made a big difference, no way!

Miami really will be looking at this series wishing NY had at least made it longer, more physical and more draining for Boston.

The Hawks/Magic series sure looks like it will be a long one. I bet this time last year no one could have imagined the Magic would have slipped this far. I really don't feel the Hawks have improved that much, a few new players and a slightly more committed approach to defense, but no drastic changes. The Magic have made drastic changes and well, the proof is in the 2-1 series deficit they face in round one after sweeping the Hawks last year.

[basket1544]

Having an extremely hard time with this series. Mike D just got a 3 shot foul against Luol (he totally kicked his leg out and drew the foul). Then Dahntay fouls Luol by pushing him to get free on a screen. Then Lu gets an and-one against McBob. Crazy!

[basket1544]

I'm trying to figure out who has managed to win at all 3 events: NCAA title, NBA champion, and Olympic gold medalist. So far, I've only come up with 2 (Magic and Jordan) but there are a few potential ones currently in the playoffs (most notably Boozer and Carmelo). Can anyone think of others that fit this category? A lot of people fit 2 out of 3 categories.

[kong123]

per yahoo - In no order, Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, Bill Russell, Jerry Lucas, Quinn Buckner, Clyde Lovelette, K.C. Jones.
Also, Richard "Rip" Hamilton: UConn Huskies NCAA 1999; Olympic Gold , Detroit Pistons NBA title 2004

[basket1544]

Hamilton won gold in the Tournament of the Americas, not the Olympics. I think everyone else on the list is correct though. Thanks!

[hq2]

In case anyone noticed today, at one point in the fourth quarter Luol, McBobs, Dahntay, Boozer, and Dunleavy were all on the floor at the same time. This means that half the players at that moment were Duke alums. I am betting this is an all-time record for most Duke players on the floor at one time in the playoffs.

[sagegrouse]

In case anyone noticed today, at one point in the fourth quarter Luol, McBobs, Dahntay, Boozer, and Dunleavy were all on the floor at the same time. This means that half the players at that moment were Duke alums. I am betting this is an all-time record for most Duke players on the floor at one time in the playoffs.

I was loving the game -- but it was hard to pick a team to root for.

Now Battier has just sunk two threes for the Grizz against the Spurs.

sagegrouse

[JBDuke]

...I do sometimes secretly wonder what the 05 and 06 Duke teams would have been like with So & Jr Deng. I think the 06 team would have been special. But I guess every major program that lost players early to the draft can say the same thing...

I have long contended that of all the early entrants from Duke since Elton, Will, and Corey broke the barrier in 1999, Luol's departure had the most impact. Especially if he'd stayed for 3 years, you could see a team built around 3 stars - JJ, Shelden, and Luol - being a major force in the tournament instead of an earlier than expected exit.

[darjum]

In case anyone noticed today, at one point in the fourth quarter Luol, McBobs, Dahntay, Boozer, and Dunleavy were all on the floor at the same time. This means that half the players at that moment were Duke alums. I am betting this is an all-time record for most Duke players on the floor at one time in the playoffs.

Then you just look at the Denver Nuggets smelling of Tar Heels...no wonder they lost, ha, ha.

[darjum]

I have long contended that of all the early entrants from Duke since Elton, Will, and Corey broke the barrier in 1999, Luol's departure had the most impact. Especially if he'd stayed for 3 years, you could see a team built around 3 stars - JJ, Shelden, and Luol - being a major force in the tournament instead of an earlier than expected exit.

The 2006 team was when I knew, despite the fact I live in Australia and have no affiliation to Duke, I was a fan of Duke basketball, the types of students they bring in and of Coach K. I was so flat after Duke lost to LSU, I really thought Duke was going to roll that team. Still the best game Tyrus Thomas has EVER played. Had Luol been there I have no doubt it would have been a different story...but had K.Durant played for 4 years at Texas things may have been different for Duke in 2010, who knows.

[darjum]

OKC really showed a lot today, I really thought the Nuggets crowd would get them over the line. Ibaka is a real stud and will fit with Perkins perfectly for the next 3-4 years. Durant just makes basketball look so easy and Westbrook is almost as fast as D.Rose. A scary team indeed.

On a side note the Spurs looked awful against Memphis. A number one seed knotted at one all in a series should just pound the opposition, much like the Lakers did to the Hornets. San Antonio looked helpless against Randolph and just imagine if Rudy Gay was playing?

[HK Dukie]

Richardson's suspension for Orlando is good news for JJ.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2011/news/story?id=6415406

[darjum]

Richardson's suspension for Orlando is good news for JJ.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2011/news/story?id=6415406

Hope his body is up for it, the Magic need it.

[diveonthefloor]

In case anyone noticed today, at one point in the fourth quarter Luol, McBobs, Dahntay, Boozer, and Dunleavy were all on the floor at the same time. This means that half the players at that moment were Duke alums. I am betting this is an all-time record for most Duke players on the floor at one time in the playoffs.

Is it possible to be an alumnus without graduating?

[CDu]

Is it possible to be an alumnus without graduating?

Yes. An alumnus is a graduate or former student of a school.

[Dev11]

Yes. An alumnus is a graduate or former student of a school.

More specifically, Duke defines it as having completed a full year of study (which is why they started hitting me up for donations at the beginning of sophomore year!), so Luol is considered an alumnus

[sagegrouse]

Is it possible to be an alumnus without graduating?

You bet! The practice elsewhere is to use the term "Exes" to designate former students. I think it began at the University of Texas (where "Texas Exes" is euphonic if not actually grammatical) and adopted by other schools as a more inclusive and less pretentious term. It makes sense at the state schools where graduation rates are low (not necessarily the problem at UT).

sagegrouse

[muzikfrk75]

Sometimes I feel like I don't know anything about sports. I thought that the Hawks would be swept by the Magic...and of course they are now up 3-1.

CP3 was otherworldy again tonight...series tied 2-2.

[darjum]

Sometimes I feel like I don't know anything about sports. I thought that the Hawks would be swept by the Magic...and of course they are now up 3-1

You and me both. The Hawks showed no back bone last year and now they're one win away from bouncing Magic. I assumed dumping Vince Carter was a good thing!

Do you think the Lakers are in trouble, or just getting a wake up call...since we're both so good at predicting stuff :D

[muzikfrk75]

You and me both. The Hawks showed no back bone last year and now they're one win away from bouncing Magic. I assumed dumping Vince Carter was a good thing!

Do you think the Lakers are in trouble, or just getting a wake up call...since we're both so good at predicting stuff :D

Lakers will definitely win the series...I think. :D

CP3 has to play almost perfect for them to win...Lakers have too much height and talent. Now the real question is will the Grizz beat the Spurs?

[darjum]

Lakers will definitely win the series...I think. :D

CP3 has to play almost perfect for them to win...Lakers have too much height and talent. Now the real question is will the Grizz beat the Spurs?

For so many years I though Zach Randolph would NEVER get how good he could be. It appears that he does now. But if you gave me $100 and said bet on which team wins I would still go the Spurs. I believe they win games 4, 5 & 6.

But even if they do, the rout might be on against OKC who looked great against Denver.

Do you still have the #1 seed or do you think Memphis pulls an 07 Warriors and bounces the supposed best in the West?

[COYS]

You and me both. The Hawks showed no back bone last year and now they're one win away from bouncing Magic. I assumed dumping Vince Carter was a good thing!

Do you think the Lakers are in trouble, or just getting a wake up call...since we're both so good at predicting stuff :D

Atlanta fan gets to chime in, here. This was one of my 1st round "upset" picks (although 5 over 4 is not a big deal). Orlando is totally different from the team that trounced ATL last year, especially after all the wheeling and dealing they've done. As uninspired as the Hawks were in the last few months of the season, the Magic were just as inconsistent. Except for the obvious advantage of Dwight Howard, the Hawks have better players at basically every single position on the floor. At the very least, the Hawks have players who are quicker and bigger than most of their equivalents on the Magic. The Hawks also have the advantage of using a dual shooting guard lineup with Crawford and Johnson on the floor at the same time. That means that the already defensively challenged 5'11'' Jameer Nelson has to guard either the 6'5 Crawford or the 6'7 Johnson. Redick is also handed a tough assignment on defense. Quentin Richardson is, well, just not very good (why Redick doesn't get the starting nod baffles me).

Despite these advantages, the games are still very close. Howard is that much of an equalizer, and for all the Hawk's versatility on defense, the half court offense can still get a little stagnant (and has moved from Iso-Joe to iso-Jamal). Atlanta might be a slightly better team, but not by much. I think Orlando takes the next game back at home before ATL sews up the series in game 6.

[theAlaskanBear]

For so many years I though Zach Randolph would NEVER get how good he could be. It appears that he does now. But if you gave me $100 and said bet on which team wins I would still go the Spurs. I believe they win games 4, 5 & 6.

But even if they do, the rout might be on against OKC who looked great against Denver.

Do you still have the #1 seed or do you think Memphis pulls an 07 Warriors and bounces the supposed best in the West?

I think its the Grizzles to lose. Two of the next three games are at home. Young team with a lot of confidence. Spurs are quite old and really don't have that great front line anymore, when they were at the height of their success.

Watching the games, Marc Gasol and Zack Randolph are men among boys. They make Tim Duncan look small. Marc is just huuuge. Also, Mike Conley seems to get coming into his own -- has outplayed Tony Parker at this point.

The Spurs are old, man. Duncan is 34, Ginobli is 33, McDyess is 36, Jefferson is 30, Parker is 28. Those guys have a lot of mileage on them.

[theAlaskanBear]

You and me both. The Hawks showed no back bone last year and now they're one win away from bouncing Magic. I assumed dumping Vince Carter was a good thing!

Do you think the Lakers are in trouble, or just getting a wake up call...since we're both so good at predicting stuff :D

Dumping Vince WAS good, but the Hawks are a nightmare matchup. They have really tall, really good guards. Causing all sorts of problem for the Magic, who lack any really good perimeter defenders (JJ is probably the best, but he doesnt have the physical skills to body up Crawford or Joe Johnson).

The Lakers are going to beat the Hornets. But they also ARE NOT going to 3-peat unless there is some egregious fixing or Kobe plays circa 2003. The are better built than the Spurs, but a combination of age and complacency (you cant tell me the team as a whole can play with the same fire after winning back-to-backs). As soneome said earlier, they have that off-on switch, one of these days they will find out that lights have gone out.

[hq2]

The Spurs are old, man. Duncan is 34, Ginobli is 33, McDyess is 36, Jefferson is 30, Parker is 28. Those guys have a lot of mileage on them.

Not surprising the Spurs would be in trouble. They weren't playing well down the stretch, and are short to boot. I had them going out in the second round. Now, they may not even get that far.

[sagegrouse]

The Spurs are old, man. Duncan is 34, Ginobli is 33, McDyess is 36, Jefferson is 30, Parker is 28. Those guys have a lot of mileage on them.

Actually, Tim turns 35 today.

sagegrouse

[darjum]

Dumping Vince WAS good, but the Hawks are a nightmare matchup. They have really tall, really good guards. Causing all sorts of problem for the Magic, who lack any really good perimeter defenders (JJ is probably the best, but he doesnt have the physical skills to body up Crawford or Joe Johnson).



Atlanta fan gets to chime in, here. This was one of my 1st round "upset" picks (although 5 over 4 is not a big deal). Orlando is totally different from the team that trounced ATL last year, especially after all the wheeling and dealing they've done. As uninspired as the Hawks were in the last few months of the season, the Magic were just as inconsistent. Except for the obvious advantage of Dwight Howard, the Hawks have better players at basically every single position on the floor. At the very least, the Hawks have players who are quicker and bigger than most of their equivalents on the Magic. The Hawks also have the advantage of using a dual shooting guard lineup with Crawford and Johnson on the floor at the same time. That means that the already defensively challenged 5'11'' Jameer Nelson has to guard either the 6'5 Crawford or the 6'7 Johnson. Redick is also handed a tough assignment on defense. Quentin Richardson is, well, just not very good (why Redick doesn't get the starting nod baffles me).

Despite these advantages, the games are still very close. Howard is that much of an equalizer, and for all the Hawk's versatility on defense, the half court offense can still get a little stagnant (and has moved from Iso-Joe to iso-Jamal). Atlanta might be a slightly better team, but not by much. I think Orlando takes the next game back at home before ATL sews up the series in game 6.

I have to be honest, I didn't see this series coming at all. The Hawks in minds eye are the model of inconsistency, which generally is the worst attribute to have come playoff time. I knew Hinrich would add a dimension that the Hawks were missing and he was a big addition over Bibby, but still, basically the same team that got rocked last year. Plus they had 3 30 plus loses at home this year, never a good sign. I've always felt that Atlanta had the athletic tolls to hang with anyone, but due to their lackadaisical attitude towards defense, in the end they couldn't beat a team with a superstar. Which gets me to...

Dwight Howard. Technical fouls aside, he was clearly #1 or 2 in MVP consideration this year. He creates such a nightmare match up for the Hawks that I believed with him having a huge series they would get by the Hawks in 6. One thing I did overlook is the downgrade in Orlando's overall talent and team defensive. If I were a Magic fan I would be truly worried. The better Dwight gets, the more he looks in his locker room and thinks to himself, "Not one guy close to my talent level here, may have to look elsewhere".

Obviously the Hawks should now win this series. If they choke away a 3-1 lead it will indeed be a disaster. But you never know, Atl has the type of team that can self com-bust, which would be a shame for Atl fans. However a series between Atl and presumably Chi could be very enjoyable.

[darjum]

The Spurs are old, man. Duncan is 34, Ginobli is 33, McDyess is 36, Jefferson is 30, Parker is 28. Those guys have a lot of mileage on them.

Or veteran experience, depending on your interpretation;)

[COYS]

Obviously the Hawks should now win this series. If they choke away a 3-1 lead it will indeed be a disaster. But you never know, Atl has the type of team that can self com-bust, which would be a shame for Atl fans. However a series between Atl and presumably Chi could be very enjoyable.

Yeah, I won't lie, I'm never particularly optimistic about the Hawks. However, I think Orlando was the best first round matchup we could possibly have had. And even though ATL is always a meltdown risk, I'd say Orlando is even closer to a meltdown. They have zero team chemistry right now and with the exception of Howard are pretty terrible on defense. Guys who are just not that good (most notably, Hedo) handle the ball way too much. Orlando needs to get on a three game hot streak from three point land to have a chance.

I'm also looking forward to a potential series with the Bulls. I feel like I can't lose too much, either way. I'd love the Hawks to surprise everyone and advance to the conference finals. However, if that isn't meant to be, I would still be happy for Boozer and Deng. But first things first. I hope the Magic are mentally deflated enough that they roll over in game 5 and the Hawks can be on equal footing in terms of rest with the Bulls (whom I expect to win their next one).

[darjum]

The Lakers are going to beat the Hornets. But they also ARE NOT going to 3-peat unless there is some egregious fixing or Kobe plays circa 2003. The are better built than the Spurs, but a combination of age and complacency (you cant tell me the team as a whole can play with the same fire after winning back-to-backs). As soneome said earlier, they have that off-on switch, one of these days they will find out that lights have gone out.

I hope we are not robbed of an OKC/Laker Western Final, what an amazing series that would be. But yes, the on/off switch the Laker's appear to posses may actually be myth...maybe the on switch is a lot harder to find than it was last year. A tough series with NO, followed by a veteran Mavs or match up nightmare in Port. Very tough road indeed.

At this stage I can't see OKC being stopped before the West Final, they just have so many weapons that great teams are based around. Go to scorer, electric point guard, tough interior defense, productive bench, team chemistry, organizational aptitude. The one ingredient missing...experience. Maybe a tough 7 game series next round would do them wonders.

Bet the Celtics are hoping Philly pushes the Heat back to Philly at least one more time.

[darjum]

Guys who are just not that good (most notably, Hedo) handle the ball way too much.

I'm also looking forward to a potential series with the Bulls. I feel like I can't lose too much, either way. .

For your first point, in retrospect, and don't we all seem super smart in retrospect, trading for Hedo and Gil means essentially you have two injured, washed up players who still both feel they are All-Star caliber. Plus they make a ton of money for the foreseeable future. Nothing more dangerous for team chemistry than players who don't have it anymore and think they do. Possibly one of the primary reasons no contender latched on to Iverson the last couple of years.

If the Hawks and Bulls do match up, what I'm most excited for is Noah and Horford going head to head for something that really matters. When they were teammates at Florida you just knew in the NBA these two would have battles down the line (in a similar way I thought Chris Webber and Juwan Howard would after playing together at Michigan-obviously it never worked out that way). But a 7 game series beteen two really quality NBA players would be so much fun to watch. I know why you can have optomistism for a Hawks victory:

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nba/news/story?id=6420239

Four words every Hawks fan wants to hear...Derrick Rose: Walking Boot!

All joking aside with Rose, as much as I like Boozer, J.Smith and Horford will give him problems with their length and rejection ability and the Hawks have shown a new commitment to defense (surprising us all).

Either way I hope you enjoy your teams run. Being Australian I follow Andrew Bogut closely, but have no affinity for the Bucks. I just wish Andrew could stay healthy for one year.

[Jeff Frosh]

I am really happy for Elton. Despite all of his injury problems, he had a great comeback year and helped Duke Dad Doug have another one of his famous turnaround NBA first seasons. Although they are still a super longshot to win this series, it is nice for their franchise to get this one win. And, to clarify the statement on the front page article, Elton's block on Lebron came when Philly was only up by 2, so I am not sure that "Philly would probably have won even if he had hit the shot." If he hits the shot, the score is tied with little time left. Philly could have scored to win it, but the most likely outcome is that Miami wins it in overtime.

[theAlaskanBear]

I have to be honest, I didn't see this series coming at all. The Hawks in minds eye are the model of inconsistency, which generally is the worst attribute to have come playoff time. I knew Hinrich would add a dimension that the Hawks were missing and he was a big addition over Bibby, but still, basically the same team that got rocked last year. Plus they had 3 30 plus loses at home this year, never a good sign. I've always felt that Atlanta had the athletic tolls to hang with anyone, but due to their lackadaisical attitude towards defense, in the end they couldn't beat a team with a superstar. Which gets me to...

Obviously the Hawks should now win this series. If they choke away a 3-1 lead it will indeed be a disaster. But you never know, Atl has the type of team that can self com-bust, which would be a shame for Atl fans. However a series between Atl and presumably Chi could be very enjoyable.

Lets give a lot of credit to Larry Drew (SENIOR), the Hawks head coach. He has done a great job getting them up for this series. Orlando isn't really any better or worse than they were last year. They have the same holes as they did with VC. The Hawks are playing much better than last year, despite virtually the same team against a team that DESTROYED them.

[theAlaskanBear]

Or veteran experience, depending on your interpretation;)

Veteran experience is only useful insofar as players have to physical skills to apply this mystical veteran knowledge. ;)

Kobe is a touch slower, harder to get open, and slightly less dynamic (he can't create for his team the same way he used to). Not a huge issue but Fish is getting old as well, and can't gaurd or create off the young PG these day. If the Lakers want to remain contenders after this year, they will need to find a quick, good young PG to create for the team and set up Kobe (who is still a killer SG), he can gracefully age like Ray Allen, I think.

[lmb]

I am really happy for Elton. Despite all of his injury problems, he had a great comeback year and helped Duke Dad Doug have another one of his famous turnaround NBA first seasons.


They showed Chris and his children in the stands after the game. He looked ecstatic for his dad. I'm not sure, but I think I saw tears.

[CDu]

I know why you can have optomistism for a Hawks victory:

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nba/news/story?id=6420239

Four words every Hawks fan wants to hear...Derrick Rose: Walking Boot!

All joking aside with Rose, as much as I like Boozer, J.Smith and Horford will give him problems with their length and rejection ability and the Hawks have shown a new commitment to defense (surprising us all).

Assuming the Bulls and Hawks advance, I think the Rose injury question is the only major threat to the Bulls making the Conference Finals. I don't think the Hawks have an answer for a healthy Rose, and Chicago defends very well at the other spots. I do think Atlanta presents problems for Boozer, but the Bulls are not reliant on Boozer for offense. And I think Deng can punish Smith (who can make spectacular plays but also lose focus at times).

That said, the Rose injury makes me nervous. He's been so amazing this year, and a big part of that is his explosiveness off the dribble and ability to change directions. I just hope the ankle problems don't limit him or make him tentative. Like Orlando and Howard (though to a much lesser degree), the Bulls are bad without Rose.

[superdave]

Not surprising the Spurs would be in trouble. They weren't playing well down the stretch, and are short to boot. I had them going out in the second round. Now, they may not even get that far.

They just flashed a stat on during the Spurs game - they shot 40% from 3 on the season, but only 32% so far this series.

[wilson]

Shane looks terrific so far for the Grizz tonight. This one should be a dogfight.

[muzikfrk75]

For so many years I though Zach Randolph would NEVER get how good he could be. It appears that he does now. But if you gave me $100 and said bet on which team wins I would still go the Spurs. I believe they win games 4, 5 & 6.

But even if they do, the rout might be on against OKC who looked great against Denver.

Do you still have the #1 seed or do you think Memphis pulls an 07 Warriors and bounces the supposed best in the West?

I think that the Spurs win in 7...but are probably done in the next round. Grizz are hanging in there right now though, tied at 35.

[dukelifer]

I think that the Spurs win in 7...but are probably done in the next round. Grizz are hanging in there right now though, tied at 35.

or this round. Battier was a +16. The guy makes a difference- and very quietly

[superdave]

Down goes San Antonio after posting the 2nd best record in the league and getting the 1 seed in the West. Bad matchup for the aging Spurs. Either Dallas (up 3-2) or Portland gets Memphis next.

Could L.A. be the next to go down? If Paul can keep his play at a high level and Kobe's ankle is a problem, it's a tossup.

[loldevilz]

Battier is so underrated and was IMO the best midseason acquisition other than Perkins. Obviously Battier is great on defense, but a lot of people don't realize that he actually made the Memphis offense better than when Rudy Gay was in the lineup.

[darjum]

Or veteran experience, depending on your interpretation;)

No,the Spurs are just plain old...end of an era well and truly.

[darjum]

Can't believe that both Duncan and Howard may get the boot from the playoffs after just one round. Amazing?

OKC better end this series in G5; if they have to go to 6 in Denver would be a tough game.

Do we still think Portland has Dallas, or does the 3 seed 'upset' the 6 seed! B.Roy was amazing the other night.

Looking forward to how the Lakers respond tomorrow too, imagine if they drop G5, the sky will be falling in LA.

[darjum]

Battier is so underrated and was IMO the best midseason acquisition other than Perkins. Obviously Battier is great on defense, but a lot of people don't realize that he actually made the Memphis offense better than when Rudy Gay was in the lineup.

It's not coincidence that teams he's on overachieve, the guy is the definition of glue. I have a sneaky suspicion Michael Gbinije has the same qualities?

[darjum]

Could L.A. be the next to go down? If Paul can keep his play at a high level and Kobe's ankle is a problem, it's a tossup.

When I watched Paul play earlier in the year I really thought his time as an MVP candidate was over, he looked a step and half slower...not in this series though. Tomorrow should be great.

[jdk]

No,the Spurs are just plain old...end of an era well and truly.

The Spurs are old, but so were the Lakers and Celtics the past couple of seasons. The Spurs are getting killed because of a lack of post depth, which makes Memphis (who tanked to avoid the Lakers) a bad matchup for them. This is one of the few teams for which I think Singler would be a good fit and make an immediate impact.

Right now, just based on how teams have played in the first round, I would expect to see the Heat against the winner of Lakers/Thunder in the finals.

[Matches]

When I watched Paul play earlier in the year I really thought his time as an MVP candidate was over, he looked a step and half slower...not in this series though. Tomorrow should be great.

I'm not sure CP3 can still bring it night in night out like he usetacould (Southern term), but in a short series he is murder.

I still like Lakers in 6, though.

[JasonEvans]

Lets give a lot of credit to Larry Drew (SENIOR), the Hawks head coach. He has done a great job getting them up for this series. Orlando isn't really any better or worse than they were last year. They have the same holes as they did with VC. The Hawks are playing much better than last year, despite virtually the same team against a team that DESTROYED them.

Ummm, you are aware that Orlando won 7 fewer games this season than last year, right? Last year they were the #2 seed in the Conference. This year they are the #4 seed.

Last year, before the playoffs started many folks felt the Magic would make the NBA finals. This year, almost no one expects the Magic to get past the Bulls (though most thought the Magic would beat the Hawks).

Drew has done an adequate job with the Hawks... at best. This is a team loaded with athletic, long players -- which is a big deal -- but many of them play with inconsistent effort and almost no brains. Drew has not been able to fix that. They won 9 fewer games this year than last year even though they have almost EXACTLY the same roster. The only significant change is the mid-season addition of Hinrich for Bibby, a move which most would expect to make the team better. I have a hard time looking at a team that won 53 last year and 44 this year and saying the coach gets a lot of credit for doing a good job.

Is there something about the way the Hawks execute on offense or D that makes you perk up and say, "wow, that is some goood coaching." Not me.

As for the series, while I am a huge Hawks fan and am thrilled to see them winning, I have a bad feeling about this. The Hawks have largely succeeded because the Magic have been abysmally bad from the perimeter. Still, even with the Magic shooting terrible, the games have been nailbiter close. I suppose it is possible that Orlando has mentally checked out for the season, but they may also realize that they were very close in both the games in Atlanta and all they need to do is win at home tonight to put maximum pressure on the Hawks. No way the Hawks want a game 7 in Orlando. The Magic have to think that they will eventually win one of the really close games in Atlanta.

I am nervous!

-Jason "Drew is the head coach not because he is good, but because he is cheap" Evans

[Billy Dat]

Interesting ending to the Nuggets/Thunder game with Westbrook deciding to try and be THE MAN and badly missing two huge 3s in the last 90 seconds. Bill Simmons often jokes that, for you 'The Wire' fans, there is Avon/Stringer potential for those two, meaning that despite being close friends, they could potentially wind up in a power struggle. I think the comparison is funny, but the truth is that Westbrook probably, correctly, assumed that the Nugs weren't going to let Durant beat them so he tried to get a good look for himself. He wasn't close with either shot. I was glad to see the Colorado Knicks avoid the sweep. Gallinari and Lawson made some huge plays down the stretch, which was lucky because Denver basically coughed up a 10 point lead with under 3 to play.

[CDu]

Drew has done an adequate job with the Hawks... at best. This is a team loaded with athletic, long players -- which is a big deal -- but many of them play with inconsistent effort and almost no brains. Drew has not been able to fix that. They won 9 fewer games this year than last year even though they have almost EXACTLY the same roster. The only significant change is the mid-season addition of Hinrich for Bibby, a move which most would expect to make the team better. I have a hard time looking at a team that won 53 last year and 44 this year and saying the coach gets a lot of credit for doing a good job.

I completely agree on this. Their primary ballhandlers (Johnson and Crawford) are jumpshot-first, streaky players. Smith has loads of athleticism but is still really undisciplined. Horford plays smart and gives consistent effort, but he's undersized at C and not really explosive enough at PF. Hinrich is a nice upgrade defensively and is comfortable on or off the ball. Basically, none of the coaches have been able to get consistent performances out of Johnson and Smith, and the rest of the team follows their lead. Drew hasn't been able to solve that problem.


As for the series, while I am a huge Hawks fan and am thrilled to see them winning, I have a bad feeling about this. The Hawks have largely succeeded because the Magic have been abysmally bad from the perimeter. Still, even with the Magic shooting terrible, the games have been nailbiter close. I suppose it is possible that Orlando has mentally checked out for the season, but they may also realize that they were very close in both the games in Atlanta and all they need to do is win at home tonight to put maximum pressure on the Hawks. No way the Hawks want a game 7 in Orlando. The Magic have to think that they will eventually win one of the really close games in Atlanta.

Yeah, while it's fun that Atlanta is winning these games, it's not that they've looked great in doing so. Both teams have played mostly sloppy, erratic basketball in the series - the Hawks have just been slightly less yuck. As a Bulls fan, part of me is loving this and part of me is concerned that one of these teams will suddenly play much better in the next round (assuming the Bulls are fortunate enough to get one more win against Indiana).

[cameroncrazy3104]

Down goes San Antonio after posting the 2nd best record in the league and getting the 1 seed in the West. Bad matchup for the aging Spurs. Either Dallas (up 3-2) or Portland gets Memphis next.

Could L.A. be the next to go down? If Paul can keep his play at a high level and Kobe's ankle is a problem, it's a tossup.

The winner of the Memphis v San Antonio series actually plays the winner of OKC v Denver

[superdave]

The winner of the Memphis v San Antonio series actually plays the winner of OKC v Denver

Just realized that. Memphis - OKC could be interesting if the Griz keep up their high level of play. (I think the Spurs are done).

[theAlaskanBear]

Ummm, you are aware that Orlando won 7 fewer games this season than last year, right? Last year they were the #2 seed in the Conference. This year they are the #4 seed.

Last year, before the playoffs started many folks felt the Magic would make the NBA finals. This year, almost no one expects the Magic to get past the Bulls (though most thought the Magic would beat the Hawks).

Drew has done an adequate job with the Hawks... at best. This is a team loaded with athletic, long players -- which is a big deal -- but many of them play with inconsistent effort and almost no brains. Drew has not been able to fix that. They won 9 fewer games this year than last year even though they have almost EXACTLY the same roster. The only significant change is the mid-season addition of Hinrich for Bibby, a move which most would expect to make the team better. I have a hard time looking at a team that won 53 last year and 44 this year and saying the coach gets a lot of credit for doing a good job.

Is there something about the way the Hawks execute on offense or D that makes you perk up and say, "wow, that is some goood coaching." Not me.

As for the series, while I am a huge Hawks fan and am thrilled to see them winning, I have a bad feeling about this. The Hawks have largely succeeded because the Magic have been abysmally bad from the perimeter. Still, even with the Magic shooting terrible, the games have been nailbiter close. I suppose it is possible that Orlando has mentally checked out for the season, but they may also realize that they were very close in both the games in Atlanta and all they need to do is win at home tonight to put maximum pressure on the Hawks. No way the Hawks want a game 7 in Orlando. The Magic have to think that they will eventually win one of the really close games in Atlanta.

I am nervous!

-Jason "Drew is the head coach not because he is good, but because he is cheap" Evans

The Magic did win fewer games, yes, but that is mostly because the Eastern Conference took a HUGE step forward in quality, not the Magic taking steps back. The Bulls and Heat leapfrogged the Magic. I think this Orlando is about on par with last years teams, but it is a matter of opinion.

As far as the Hawks go, I will trust your judgement, because I haven't gotten to see them play in the regular season. I have only seen the playoff games which may well be an outlier performance wise.

[JasonEvans]

The Magic did win fewer games, yes, but that is mostly because the Eastern Conference took a HUGE step forward in quality, not the Magic taking steps back. The Bulls and Heat leapfrogged the Magic. I think this Orlando is about on par with last years teams, but it is a matter of opinion.

The Bulls, signing Boozer and getting their young guys more experienced, and the Heat, I think they signed a new guy or two, did get a lot, lot better in the offseason. It is also worth noting that the Celtics were more healthy this year and may have been better as a result of that too.

Still, I don't think those things can solely account for the Magic regressing by 7 games in the standings from last year. Remember that the #1 team in the East last year, the Cavs, took a gigantic, huge, massive step backwards.

Something is foul is Orlando. I suspect it is that the team is poorly assembled with parts that don't seem to work together very well. I am somewhat convinced, at this point, that Jameer Nelson cannot be the PG on a championship caliber team (though he was the Magic PG last year and they seemed to be near championship quality then).

Orlando's problem is that it is going to be almost impossible to improve for a few years. The Arenas and Hedu contracts are massive albatrosses around the neck of the franchise. They owe Arenas close to $60 million dollars over the next 3 years (he made $17.7 mil this year, and it goes up every season). They owe Hedu more than $10 mil a year for the next 3 years. Plus, Howard is gonna get PAID when his contract comes up at the end of the 2012 season.

This is a team that will be waaay over the cap and probably far into salary penalty territory in 2013. They had the 2nd highest payroll in basketball this year ($90,325,000 -- just a shade under the Lakers $90,432,000). Who knows how the new CBA will affect them, but it is very possible we will see a reduced cap (or one that holds steady for a few years) and even stiffer penalties on franchises like the Magic that are well over the cap.

Orlando is in bad shape going forward. I won't be at all surprised if Howard takes his cape to some other city when he becomes a free agent. I could see Boston making a real run at him to pair him with Rondo and Pierce. That would be a scary combo!! Boston will have Allen and Garnett's contracts off the books just in time to go after Howard. Good timing, Danny Ainge!

Speaking of team salaries, the team that is probably the biggest bargain in the NBA is OKCity. They have the 25th highest payroll in the league at $55.9 million. Either that or the bargain is the Heat with the 22nd highest payroll of $64.2 mil.

-Jason "OKC's payroll is about to skyrocket -- Durant comes off his rookie deal after this year and Westbrook comes off his after next season-- each will get huge raises" Evans

[CDu]

The Bulls, signing Boozer and getting their young guys more experienced, and the Heat, I think they signed a new guy or two, did get a lot, lot better in the offseason. It is also worth noting that the Celtics were more healthy this year and may have been better as a result of that too.

Still, I don't think those things can solely account for the Magic regressing by 7 games in the standings from last year. Remember that the #1 team in the East last year, the Cavs, took a gigantic, huge, massive step backwards.

Something is foul is Orlando. I suspect it is that the team is poorly assembled with parts that don't seem to work together very well. I am somewhat convinced, at this point, that Jameer Nelson cannot be the PG on a championship caliber team (though he was the Magic PG last year and they seemed to be near championship quality then).

Orlando's problem is that it is going to be almost impossible to improve for a few years. The Arenas and Hedu contracts are massive albatrosses around the neck of the franchise. They owe Arenas close to $60 million dollars over the next 3 years (he made $17.7 mil this year, and it goes up every season). They owe Hedu more than $10 mil a year for the next 3 years. Plus, Howard is gonna get PAID when his contract comes up at the end of the 2012 season.

This is a team that will be waaay over the cap and probably far into salary penalty territory in 2013. They had the 2nd highest payroll in basketball this year ($90,325,000 -- just a shade under the Lakers $90,432,000). Who knows how the new CBA will affect them, but it is very possible we will see a reduced cap (or one that holds steady for a few years) and even stiffer penalties on franchises like the Magic that are well over the cap.

Orlando is in bad shape going forward. I won't be at all surprised if Howard takes his cape to some other city when he becomes a free agent. I could see Boston making a real run at him to pair him with Rondo and Pierce. That would be a scary combo!! Boston will have Allen and Garnett's contracts off the books just in time to go after Howard. Good timing, Danny Ainge!

Speaking of team salaries, the team that is probably the biggest bargain in the NBA is OKCity. They have the 25th highest payroll in the league at $55.9 million. Either that or the bargain is the Heat with the 22nd highest payroll of $64.2 mil.

-Jason "OKC's payroll is about to skyrocket -- Durant comes off his rookie deal after this year and Westbrook comes off his after next season-- each will get huge raises" Evans

Yeah, the Magic made several bad decisions the past few years. They've got a collection of mediocre wings who don't play defense, an undersized PG who doesn't create for others and doesn't defend, and absolutely no depth in the post (they start a tiny PF). The Arenas and Hedo moves were crippling unless those guys find the fountain of youth. But I can't imagine Howard looking at this franchise and thinking "here's where I'll win a championship."

I hate to say it, but the offseason contracts to Redick and Duhon don't look good now. That's $10+ million for a spot shooter and a third-string PG. Those deals aren't nearly as bad as the Arenas and Hedo deals ($30+ million per for the next three years), but they aren't helping. The Magic are going to have to get creative to clear enough space to entice a free agent to come to Orlando (which is the only way I can see them keeping Howard).

[Acymetric]

Yeah, the Magic made several bad decisions the past few years. They've got a collection of mediocre wings who don't play defense, an undersized PG who doesn't create for others and doesn't defend, and absolutely no depth in the post (they start a tiny PF). The Arenas and Hedo moves were crippling unless those guys find the fountain of youth. But I can't imagine Howard looking at this franchise and thinking "here's where I'll win a championship."

I hate to say it, but the offseason contracts to Redick and Duhon don't look good now. That's $10+ million for a spot shooter and a third-string PG. Those deals aren't nearly as bad as the Arenas and Hedo deals ($30+ million per for the next three years), but they aren't helping. The Magic are going to have to get creative to clear enough space to entice a free agent to come to Orlando (which is the only way I can see them keeping Howard).

I disagree, before his injury Redick was playing well and certainly wasn't just a spot shooter for the team. Chris hasn't done much, but he's stuck behind Nelson and Arenas right? Tough to earn much time there.

[superdave]

Something is foul is Orlando. I suspect it is that the team is poorly assembled with parts that don't seem to work together very well. I am somewhat convinced, at this point, that Jameer Nelson cannot be the PG on a championship caliber team (though he was the Magic PG last year and they seemed to be near championship quality then).

Orlando's problem is that it is going to be almost impossible to improve for a few years. The Arenas and Hedu contracts are massive albatrosses around the neck of the franchise. They owe Arenas close to $60 million dollars over the next 3 years (he made $17.7 mil this year, and it goes up every season). They owe Hedu more than $10 mil a year for the next 3 years. Plus, Howard is gonna get PAID when his contract comes up at the end of the 2012 season.

This is a team that will be waaay over the cap and probably far into salary penalty territory in 2013. They had the 2nd highest payroll in basketball this year ($90,325,000 -- just a shade under the Lakers $90,432,000). Who knows how the new CBA will affect them, but it is very possible we will see a reduced cap (or one that holds steady for a few years) and even stiffer penalties on franchises like the Magic that are well over the cap.

Orlando is in bad shape going forward. I won't be at all surprised if Howard takes his cape to some other city when he becomes a free agent. I could see Boston making a real run at him to pair him with Rondo and Pierce. That would be a scary combo!! Boston will have Allen and Garnett's contracts off the books just in time to go after Howard. Good timing, Danny Ainge!


I have heard rumblings that Dwight Howard would want to land on the Lakers. It's certainly possible that he pulls a Carmelo and the Magic nugget him on over to LA for Bynum and Odom or some combo of players. I really do think Orlando would try to deal him if the writing is on the wall.

As for the Celtics, it will be interesting to see if Garnett and Allen stay there for a paycut. The Big Three there seem to really get along well, and with Doc Rivers too. So there could be salary cap room but probably not enough to give Howard a max deal.

On top of that the new CBA may cut free agency max deals to 4 years but you could get a 5th year if you re-sign with your team. Who knows what salaries and contracts will look like going forward, but I'd bet a sign-trade or straight up trade for Howard is the most likely method of his seemingly likely departure.

These NBA owners need help. Case in point: Turkoglu, Arenas, Haywood, Joe Johnson, Darko...I could go on. Why dont they all get a base salary with incentives for the rest!?

[CDu]

I disagree, before his injury Redick was playing well and certainly wasn't just a spot shooter for the team. Chris hasn't done much, but he's stuck behind Nelson and Arenas right? Tough to earn much time there.

I'm not saying Redick hasn't played fairly well. I just think they overpaid for him. Chicago is getting similar productivity from Korver for about half the price. He was stuck in a backup role already, and then Orlando went out and traded for two guys (Richardson and Arenas) to play ahead of him anyway. So they're paying $7 million per year for a backup SG.

The Duhon signing seemed solid as a backup to Nelson. The price wasn't bad for a ~20mpg guard. He just didn't play well. And then they traded for Arenas, which buried Duhon on the bench.

[Billy Dat]

I'm not saying Redick hasn't played fairly well. I just think they overpaid for him. Chicago is getting similar productivity from Korver for about half the price. He was stuck in a backup role already, and then Orlando went out and traded for two guys (Richardson and Arenas) to play ahead of him anyway. So they're paying $7 million per year for a backup SG.

The Duhon signing seemed solid as a backup to Nelson. The price wasn't bad for a ~20mpg guard. He just didn't play well. And then they traded for Arenas, which buried Duhon on the bench.

It's interesting to note that Chicago set the market for Redick by signing him to an offer sheet that the Magic had to match...a little salary cap gamesmanship between East Conference contenders, perhaps?

[hq2]

I hate to say it, but the offseason contracts to Redick and Duhon don't look good now. That's $10+ million for a spot shooter and a third-string PG. Those deals aren't nearly as bad as the Arenas and Hedo deals ($30+ million per for the next three years)

I think over time, J.J.s will prove out. He was playing pretty well before he got hurt. As far as the Arenas and Turkoglu contracts are concerned, they gave as good as they got (Rashard Lewis, Vince Carter). The Magic had to do something. What they did may not have worked, but what they had didn't work either. I think they're about the same as if they hadn't done anything.

[RoyalBlue08]

Watching JJ take over game 5. Brings back memories. Pretty good for a spot shooter.

[CDu]

As far as the Arenas and Turkoglu contracts are concerned, they gave as good as they got (Rashard Lewis, Vince Carter). The Magic had to do something. What they did may not have worked, but what they had didn't work either. I think they're about the same as if they hadn't done anything.

I wouldn't say they gave as good as they got. Carter comes off the books this year (he has a team option that would be declined) and Lewis has only two more years. Arenas and Turkoglu both have THREE years left, and were players in decline.

[Newton_14]

I'm not saying Redick hasn't played fairly well. I just think they overpaid for him. Chicago is getting similar productivity from Korver for about half the price. He was stuck in a backup role already, and then Orlando went out and traded for two guys (Richardson and Arenas) to play ahead of him anyway. So they're paying $7 million per year for a backup SG.

The Duhon signing seemed solid as a backup to Nelson. The price wasn't bad for a ~20mpg guard. He just didn't play well. And then they traded for Arenas, which buried Duhon on the bench.

I agree with you more often than not, but have to side with Acy on this one. The injury bug hit JJ a bit this year but he is still a darn good player for the Magic, and is far more than a spot shooter. He would have been in a much better position at Chicago and I think would have shined there with the makeup of the Bull's rotation.

JJ should be starting for the Magic anyway. I do agree wholeheartedly though on all of the other defeciencies you outlined with the Magic. To piggyback on Jason's wish, I vote we send JJ and Howard to the Celtics to play with Rondo. ;)

On a serious note though, I do hate like heck that Orlando matched Chicago's offer for JJ last summer. What could have been! A lineup of Rose/JJ/Deng/Boozer/Noah would have meshed together nicely imo.

[dukeblue4ever]

Watching JJ take over game 5. Brings back memories. Pretty good for a spot shooter.It's pretty interesting that he's doing all of this with only 0 three point attempts. Pretty good for a spot shooter.

[kong123]

McRobert's just got tossed for throwing a forearm at Noah. It was a retaliation attempt after Noah got him with a a forearm under the basket while going for a rebound.

[moonpie23]

bulls just got one....but they are still vulnerable.......they gotta come stout....

[darjum]

I wouldn't say they gave as good as they got. Carter comes off the books this year (he has a team option that would be declined) and Lewis has only two more years. Arenas and Turkoglu both have THREE years left, and were players in decline.

Agreed, truly horrific contracts and even on a talent basis I would take Lewis, Carter over Turk, Arenas.

In reality Otis didn't even have to do the Lewis/Arenas deal, why not see how a roster shake up would have helped Lewis's game?

[darjum]

I'm glad the Bulls were pushed in this series; as much as a 4-1 series is competitive. The tough play combined with a rest will serve them well for the Hawks/Magic series...better get it done in G6 Hawks fans!

[darjum]

Something is foul is Orlando. I suspect it is that the team is poorly assembled with parts that don't seem to work together very well. I am somewhat convinced, at this point, that Jameer Nelson cannot be the PG on a championship caliber team (though he was the Magic PG last year and they seemed to be near championship quality then).

Orlando is in bad shape going forward. I won't be at all surprised if Howard takes his cape to some other city when he becomes a free agent. I could see Boston making a real run at him to pair him with Rondo and Pierce. That would be a scary combo!! Boston will have Allen and Garnett's contracts off the books just in time to go after Howard. Good timing, Danny Ainge!

I have always thought that Nelson couldn't be your starting PG on a championship team and now he appears to be the Magic's second best player! Argh! The team is totally dysfunctional and Stav Van can only do so much with what he's got.

Not if but when does Howard leave. If the Hawks do indeed beat them in the first round the rumblings will turn into thunder in Florida about Howard's departure.

It is a shame JJ didn't hook on with the Bulls, he would have been a really nice addition.

[theAlaskanBear]

Brand is killin it for the 76ers against the Heat tonight. Close game.

Brand 18points 5 boards in the 3rd.

[JasonEvans]

Nice article about JJ from Yahoo. Really praises him for coming thru last night.


Redick had missed the final 17 games of the regular season with an injury, and practiced one time prior to the playoffs. Finally, he started popping shots again. He hit five without a miss in the first quarter, and the Magic were never challenged. With so little trust in Arenas, who can barely get up and down the floor, and Turkoglu, Redick is one of the teammates that Howard can count upon to overtake the Hawks with him.

He’s grown into a fine, trustworthy all-around guard. No more is Redick simply a specialist. Here’s something that you seldom see with Redick: He made six of his eight shots for 14 points, and never tried a 3-pointer.

--Jason "if my Hawks have to lose, losing to JJ's sweet shooting touch is a good way to go" Evans

[JasonEvans]

Brand is killin it for the 76ers against the Heat tonight. Close game.

Brand 18points 5 boards in the 3rd.

He finished with 22 and 6, but the Sixers lost.

-Jason "Miami played 2 of their starters for only 4 minutes in this game-- I don't think I have ever seen an NBA team with less depth" Evans

[loldevilz]

He finished with 22 and 6, but the Sixers lost.

-Jason "Miami played 2 of their starters for only 4 minutes in this game-- I don't think I have ever seen an NBA team with less depth" Evans

You clearly haven't watched the New Orleans Hornets. How CP3 keeps that team competitive is a miracle.

[superdave]

Durant with 41 points and they needed every one of them. He scored 16 of their last 20 and had a huge block with 9 seconds to go.
Eat your heart out, LeBron.

[darjum]

You clearly haven't watched the New Orleans Hornets. How CP3 keeps that team competitive is a miracle.

Especially without David West. Landry would be very dangerous off the bench.

[darjum]

Durant with 41 points and they needed every one of them. He scored 16 of their last 20 and had a huge block with 9 seconds to go.
Eat your heart out, LeBron.

Exactly, a player who is all he's built up to be.

But who do they play in Rnd 2? The Spurs escape today, but can they win the series? Pretty amazing victory.

[Skitzle]

Exactly, a player who is all he's built up to be.

But who do they play in Rnd 2? The Spurs escape today, but can they win the series? Pretty amazing victory.

Would love to see a Thunder - Memphis Series. It would be a great change of pace in the Playoffs. I'm tired of the Spurs.

[darjum]

Would love to see a Thunder - Memphis Series. It would be a great change of pace in the Playoffs. I'm tired of the Spurs.

I'd like to see Memphis with Rudy Gay vs OKC, but I'd prefer to see how OKC does against a veteran crew in San Antonio. Either way, SA dodged a bullet with that Gary Neal 3, wow, what a huge shot.

I have to admit, I never get tired of watching Battier play, he just makes the game easier for everyone. Had he not had bad luck with some of his teammates getting injured he may have been the new Robert Horry in terms of the ultimate role player on championship teams. At least he got one in college :D

[Skitzle]

I'd like to see Memphis with Rudy Gay vs OKC, but I'd prefer to see how OKC does against a veteran crew in San Antonio. Either way, SA dodged a bullet with that Gary Neal 3, wow, what a huge shot.


Ah yes... They are sans-Gay.... thats a good point. Should be a good series either way. Much more interesting than Lakers / Mavs.

Celtics Heat will be a good series as well, but something tells me the Heat are going to have a very tough time coming out on top.

[darjum]

Ah yes... They are sans-Gay.... thats a good point. Should be a good series either way. Much more interesting than Lakers / Mavs.

Celtics Heat will be a good series as well, but something tells me the Heat are going to have a very tough time coming out on top.

It's so difficult to get a grip on the Heat. I felt going in they were the favorite to win the title; something about having a back to back MVP and a Finals MVP on the court at the same time!

The Heat have to hold court in the first two games, if they give the Celts a sniff, then it's over. But if they run the C's off the court in G1 & 2 then they will win the series. In addition Mario Chalmers has to focus all of his energy on blocking up Rondo's space. Rondo shouldn't be allowed to breathe unmolested in this series...but knowing the Heat they'll probably just throw a party for him on South Beach, too much work otherwise :cool:

Can't wait for the 2nd round, the East is great, the West is interesting. Enjoy.

P.S. Daniel Ewing was one of my all-time fav Dukies. To this day I have no idea why he didn't make it in the pros as a back-up guard. Can't wait for the next Texas based guard to come to Duke in Rasheed.

[jdk]

Great great great game in San Antonio last night. Thought it was over when Manu's shot was ruled a two. Holy crap, the Spurs dodged a bullet there.

I still think they are done this series, but Memphis better blow them out of the water early. Tim Duncan may be playing his last game. As they say on the Spurs board, it was a nice dynasty to have in between lockouts.

[Skitzle]

It's so difficult to get a grip on the Heat. I felt going in they were the favorite to win the title; something about having a back to back MVP and a Finals MVP on the court at the same time!

The Heat have to hold court in the first two games, if they give the Celts a sniff, then it's over. But if they run the C's off the court in G1 & 2 then they will win the series. In addition Mario Chalmers has to focus all of his energy on blocking up Rondo's space. Rondo shouldn't be allowed to breathe unmolested in this series...but knowing the Heat they'll probably just throw a party for him on South Beach, too much work otherwise :cool:

Can't wait for the 2nd round, the East is great, the West is interesting. Enjoy.

P.S. Daniel Ewing was one of my all-time fav Dukies. To this day I have no idea why he didn't make it in the pros as a back-up guard. Can't wait for the next Texas based guard to come to Duke in Rasheed.

I look at the Heat and I think MAN I wish they had a first round pick. Nolan Smith would be the PERFECT player for that team....

Daniel Ewing also one of my all-time Favs (which you can guess by the avatar). He never got to play in a role that suited him. (He was not meant to be a PG his senior year). His mustache however is first rate.

[Skitzle]

Great great great game in San Antonio last night. Thought it was over when Manu's shot was ruled a two. Holy crap, the Spurs dodged a bullet there.

I still think they are done this series, but Memphis better blow them out of the water early. Tim Duncan may be playing his last game. As they say on the Spurs board, it was a nice dynasty to have in between lockouts.

Funny. The Ginoblie shot reminded me of the Fisher Shot that the Spurs lost too so many years ago. (The falling away ridiculous shot that leads to a game win...) What goes around comes around?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TdZHffwOF8

[Billy Dat]

RE: The Heat. I don't think enough people are focused on the quality defense they play. They REALLY protect the rim with guys like Joel Anthony. And, being able to put the ball in Wade's hands down the stretch is hugely valuable. The Celtics have their number, but Bosh is really coming on and may negate that Boston frontcourt advantage.

RE: 76ers. What a fun, young team to watch. I love Elton in the elder statesman leader role, the guy who just wants to win, shows the youngins how hard they need to play. They have quite a nucleus, I hope they keep developing.

RE: Durant. Good god, man, who has a prettier shot than Kevin Durant? It literally threatens to not even move the net when it swishes, that's how pure it is. Plus, we're not talking about a shooting specialist, we're talking about one of the 5 best players in the game....at 6'9"...he is amazing to watch when he gets it rolling. Last night was a legend building performance.

RE: Spurs. Count me in as someone who is sick of watching them. I am sick of Duncan's bug eyed "what...foul on me?" looks that rival Rasheed Wallace, I am sick of Popovich's disgusted smirk when he's asked a question....I wish they'd go away. But, last night was huge and I think Memphis may be in a heap of trouble. You never want to let a champ off the deck when you have your foot on their throat. I hope that was the Spurs last stand.

[Billy Dat]

I didn't see the end of the Griz/Spurs game and only today am I seeing the consensus that Shane was to blame for the defensive breakdown that led to the Gary Neal 3.

http://nbaplaybook.com/2011/04/28/was-a-defensive-breakdown-responsible-for-neals-game-tying-three/#more-13954

[superdave]

I didn't see the end of the Griz/Spurs game and only today am I seeing the consensus that Shane was to blame for the defensive breakdown that led to the Gary Neal 3.

http://nbaplaybook.com/2011/04/28/was-a-defensive-breakdown-responsible-for-neals-game-tying-three/#more-13954

Shane should have stayed above the 3 point line, but OJ Mayo also overplayed Gary Neal when he caught the ball and quickly became out of position once Neal took a dribble and elevated. Neal actually mentioned Mayo's overplay in the press conference. So I think both mis-played it.

[jv001]

I didn't see the end of the Griz/Spurs game and only today am I seeing the consensus that Shane was to blame for the defensive breakdown that led to the Gary Neal 3.

http://nbaplaybook.com/2011/04/28/was-a-defensive-breakdown-responsible-for-neals-game-tying-three/#more-13954

No way I can blame anything that goes wrong on Shane, lol. He's in my top 5 all time Duke players. But I see what you're talking about. Just can't seem to think anything negative about Shane and Grant. GoGuke!

[AluminumDuke]

RE: Spurs. Count me in as someone who is sick of watching them. I am sick of Duncan's bug eyed "what...foul on me?" looks that rival Rasheed Wallace, I am sick of Popovich's disgusted smirk when he's asked a question....I wish they'd go away. But, last night was huge and I think Memphis may be in a heap of trouble. You never want to let a champ off the deck when you have your foot on their throat. I hope that was the Spurs last stand.

These are precisely the types of comments that people make about Duke. If a team is successful for very long, people become sick of them. Once there, the looks of the players' and coaches' become targets. Yes, Duncan questions even obvious fouls called on him. Hardly unique in the NBA. Yes, Popovich smirks. But he also shows a lot of class in always crediting the opposing team in a loss and deflecting credit for his wins.

I fully understand that people don't find them to be an exciting team to watch, and thus don't appreciate their consistent success. But you have to admit that, relative to that success, they're hardly over-exposed.

[Billy Dat]

No way I can blame anything that goes wrong on Shane, lol. He's in my top 5 all time Duke players. But I see what you're talking about. Just can't seem to think anything negative about Shane and Grant. GoGuke!

Apparantly, Steve Alford's New Castle high school team lost a huge state playoff game during his career when he missed not 1 but 2 consecutive free throws with no time left. 1 would have tied the game. The lede of the big story in the local paper the next day was, "Well...Ida lost the farm". That's about how I feel whenever Shane is viewed to have made a defensive mistake.

[TheItinerantSon]

well thats not even the issue, the real mistake was battier forgetting that you can inbounds behind the half court line and failing to pass to a streaking, uncovered OJ Mayo.

If he had, the spurs wouldnt have been able to even foul before the end of regulation.

Anyway, getting an extra Home game is good for a small market team like Memphis. And with any luck they'll be able to finish the spurs on friday night.

[kong123]

These are precisely the types of comments that people make about Duke. If a team is successful for very long, people become sick of them. Once there, the looks of the players' and coaches' become targets. Yes, Duncan questions even obvious fouls called on him. Hardly unique in the NBA. Yes, Popovich smirks. But he also shows a lot of class in always crediting the opposing team in a loss and deflecting credit for his wins.

I fully understand that people don't find them to be an exciting team to watch, and thus don't appreciate their consistent success. But you have to admit that, relative to that success, they're hardly over-exposed.

I was thinking the same thing when I read his comment. He could be a college basketball fan talking about Duke. Just a fan being a fan.

[Billy Dat]

These are precisely the types of comments that people make about Duke. If a team is successful for very long, people become sick of them. Once there, the looks of the players' and coaches' become targets. Yes, Duncan questions even obvious fouls called on him. Hardly unique in the NBA. Yes, Popovich smirks. But he also shows a lot of class in always crediting the opposing team in a loss and deflecting credit for his wins.

I fully understand that people don't find them to be an exciting team to watch, and thus don't appreciate their consistent success. But you have to admit that, relative to that success, they're hardly over-exposed.

Don't get me wrong, I respect the Spurs, admire what they've been able to accomplish in a small market with savvy drafting and free agent signings (winning the lottery twice and getting 2 HOFers as a result didn't hurt) blardy blardy blar. At least with Duke, guys graduate and new faces come in (save for the coaches). I guess I should hail the Spurs as providing Duke with its only NBA title ring (Ferry).

[sagegrouse]

Apparantly, Steve Alford's New Castle high school team lost a huge state playoff game during his career when he missed not 1 but 2 consecutive free throws with no time left. 1 would have tied the game. The lede of the big story in the local paper the next day was, "Well...Ida lost the farm". That's about how I feel whenever Shane is viewed to have made a defensive mistake.

In 2001 at Duke against UNC, Shane fouled Brendan Haywood in the open court at the end of a tie game. La Brenda made the FTs and Duke lost 83-85. The surprise in Shane's making a mistake at a critical juncture has enabled me to retain the memory ten years later.

sagegrouse

[jimsumner]

Don't get me wrong, I respect the Spurs, admire what they've been able to accomplish in a small market with savvy drafting and free agent signings (winning the lottery twice and getting 2 HOFers as a result didn't hurt) blardy blardy blar. At least with Duke, guys graduate and new faces come in (save for the coaches). I guess I should hail the Spurs as providing Duke with its only NBA title ring (Ferry).

Jeff Mullins won a ring with Golden State in 1975, I believe.

[phaedrus]

well thats not even the issue, the real mistake was battier forgetting that you can inbounds behind the half court line and failing to pass to a streaking, uncovered OJ Mayo.

If he had, the spurs wouldnt have been able to even foul before the end of regulation.

Anyway, getting an extra Home game is good for a small market team like Memphis. And with any luck they'll be able to finish the spurs on friday night.

Plus, doesn't anyone remember when Tim "not a 3-point threat" Duncan did this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNCjH7tAAOo)?

One of the most surprising turns of events I remember seeing in the playoffs.

[JasonEvans]

Dunno if anyone is watching, but the Hawks and Magic are in a dogfight to see which team can give away this series the fastest. Whew, are they ever playing some butt ugly basketball!! No one can hit a shot.

--Jason "1 point game, midway through the 3rd quarter" Evans

[NSDukeFan]

Dunno if anyone is watching, but the Hawks and Magic are in a dogfight to see which team can give away this series the fastest. Whew, are they ever playing some butt ugly basketball!! No one can hit a shot.

--Jason "1 point game, midway through the 3rd quarter" Evans

Orlando scored 36 in the first half? Did they watch the Butler-UConn game for offensive inspiration?

[Billy Dat]

Jeff Mullins won a ring with Golden State in 1975, I believe.

Yeah...take that kong!!! Oh yeah, MJ has 6 rings by himself...and Worthy has a few...Kenny Smith....hmmmm.....

Let's go BULLS!!!!!!!

[Bluedog]

JJ missed a wide open three with 2 seconds left that would have tied it...:mad: I was actually cheering for ATL since I think ORL is a tougher matchup for the Bulls, but not if it was due to Redick missing the shot to send it into OT. Sucks. I'm sure JJ is kicking himself, but sometimes the shot just doesn't fall.

[nmduke2001]

JJ missed a wide open three with 2 seconds left that would have tied it...:mad: I was actually cheering for ATL since I think ORL is a tougher matchup for the Bulls, but not if it was due to Redick missing the shot to send it into OT. Sucks. I'm sure JJ is kicking himself, but sometimes the shot just doesn't fall.

Although he did miss the shot, he did have a two handed dunk earlier in the game. That's right, JJ got a pass and took one step for the two handed dunk. Dominique Wilkens was the color commentator and he said something to the effect of "I didn't even know he could dunk." haha.

[darjum]

Atlanta fan gets to chime in, here. .

Congrats COYS! The Hawks earned this victory, great outcome for Atl. Hope Kirk H is fie though. Should be a great series with the Bulls, and who knows, maybe conference finals!

Oh JJ, that was as open as he could get...what a shame!

Lakers took care of business 2nite, the big boys played like men.

[COYS]

Yeah, the media has already given the Bulls a victory over the Hawks. I certainly do not expect the Hawks to win. However, they have a chance, that's for sure. We're better than an Indy team that gave the Bulls problems at times. If Boozer is a little banged up or continues to struggle (hope not!) or if Rose is hobbled at all, it opens the door just a bit more. I'm looking forward to a few Horford/Noah matchups, even though I don't think they'll be matched up most of the time. Crawford and Heinrich better be ready to play some serious defense on Rose, though. Also, the athletic advantage the Hawks enjoyed against everyone except for Howard in the Magic series will be all gone against the Bulls.

[darjum]

Yeah, the media has already given the Bulls a victory over the Hawks. I certainly do not expect the Hawks to win. However, they have a chance, that's for sure. We're better than an Indy team that gave the Bulls problems at times. If Boozer is a little banged up or continues to struggle (hope not!) or if Rose is hobbled at all, it opens the door just a bit more. I'm looking forward to a few Horford/Noah matchups, even though I don't think they'll be matched up most of the time. Crawford and Heinrich better be ready to play some serious defense on Rose, though. Also, the athletic advantage the Hawks enjoyed against everyone except for Howard in the Magic series will be all gone against the Bulls.

To touch on a couple of points:

The media pretty much wrote off the Hawks before the Magic season...they also wrote of Memphis...and Dallas...you get what I mean!
Boozer REALLY struggled against Indy and he's not going to find it any easier shooting over Horford and J.Smith. I like Boozer, but he struggles against long shot blockers.
If anybody knows Rose it's Heinrich. I just hope he's healthy, if so, I think he can give Rose fits.


I feel that if the Hawks make it a grind defensively (they did an amazing job against Orlando) then they have a chance. I still feel the Bullls are an effective SG away from being a serious contender and as long as Marvin Williams semi matches Deng's production, Atl may take them out. The problem there is Williams is just so soft. For the number 2 pick in the draft he really has yet to take full advantage of his athletic gifts.

Either way, a great series and the other Eastern semi, well, it's on. Still think an OKC/LAL W-Final is almost inevitable; and what a match up that would be. Fun time.

[COYS]

To touch on a couple of points:

The media pretty much wrote off the Hawks before the Magic season...they also wrote of Memphis...and Dallas...you get what I mean!
Boozer REALLY struggled against Indy and he's not going to find it any easier shooting over Horford and J.Smith. I like Boozer, but he struggles against long shot blockers.
If anybody knows Rose it's Heinrich. I just hope he's healthy, if so, I think he can give Rose fits.


I feel that if the Hawks make it a grind defensively (they did an amazing job against Orlando) then they have a chance. I still feel the Bullls are an effective SG away from being a serious contender and as long as Marvin Williams semi matches Deng's production, Atl may take them out. The problem there is Williams is just so soft. For the number 2 pick in the draft he really has yet to take full advantage of his athletic gifts.

Either way, a great series and the other Eastern semi, well, it's on. Still think an OKC/LAL W-Final is almost inevitable; and what a match up that would be. Fun time.

I am a Hawks fan for sure, but if there is one thing I HOPE doesn't happen, it's Marvin Williams outplaying Deng. I also think the chances of that happening are incredibly small. Williams may have a good game or two, but Deng will be much more consistent and a better defender overall. I think the things you pointed out are really good, though. Horford and Smith should give Boozer fits. We'll see some Smith at SF as well, so sometimes he'll go up against Deng when Collins and Horford are both in at the same time. My biggest question for the Hawks is when we go with our big time offensive unit (no real PG with Crawford and Joe Johnson in there at the same time) who's gonna guard Rose? Johnson's got a huge size advantage but a major quickness disadvantage. Crawford seems like the obvious choice, but defense and Jamaal Crawford have been strangers for a very long time now. We'll see.

[CDu]

I am a Hawks fan for sure, but if there is one thing I HOPE doesn't happen, it's Marvin Williams outplaying Deng. I also think the chances of that happening are incredibly small. Williams may have a good game or two, but Deng will be much more consistent and a better defender overall. I think the things you pointed out are really good, though. Horford and Smith should give Boozer fits. We'll see some Smith at SF as well, so sometimes he'll go up against Deng when Collins and Horford are both in at the same time. My biggest question for the Hawks is when we go with our big time offensive unit (no real PG with Crawford and Joe Johnson in there at the same time) who's gonna guard Rose? Johnson's got a huge size advantage but a major quickness disadvantage. Crawford seems like the obvious choice, but defense and Jamaal Crawford have been strangers for a very long time now. We'll see.

Has there been any update to the Hinrich injury? That's a big question, because I think Rose will torch either Crawford or Johnson.

I agree that Horford and Smith should give Boozer problems, but Noah should thrive against Collins/Pachulia/Powell. And I think he'd have the edge against Horford too.

And I think Deng will punish either Williams or Smith, who aren't terribly disciplined.

[Jeff Frosh]

I think the Hawks winning this series was mainly the result of the Magic just not being a very good team. The Bulls had the best record in an improved Eastern Conference (even with all of their injuries) for a reason. Now they have one playoff series under their belts and I believe that they will play better. I see the Bulls winning this series in 5 games.

[Starter]

Dwight went 27 and 15 with 2 blocks in this series. He even hit 68% of his free throws. And they lost.

The Magic are lousy, relative to what they should be. And Dwight can't get out of there fast enough.

...I'll give 'em Amar'e and Billups for Dwight. I'll even take back the husk of Gilbert Arenas.

I'd say Bulls in 6. The Hawks are your classic team that's very good... but just not great. That said, they have an athletic and versatile frontcourt, Joe's looking good after an underwhelming regular season, and Crawford's doing his thing right now. It's not like they have no shot. But they have zero answer for Rose. (Who does? But Atlanta even less than others)

[wilson]

Has there been any update to the Hinrich injury?Not yet. The early word was that it was a hamstring injury of some sort, and an MRI was scheduled for sometime today (might actually be going on right now). John Hollinger at ESPN says there's no update, but that Hinrich is moving better today.
As another Atlantan, allow me to say that I think last night's game was the Hawks' biggest win in 15 or 20 years. I know this is the third straight year they've been to the second round, but the past couple of first-round series, at least according to seed, have been ones they were supposed to win. This is the first time they've jumped up and beaten one of the so-called "big boys." I also think the Hawks have a better chance against the Bulls than most think. Rose is of course a problem for just about any team, but the Hawks match up pretty well against Chicago's other scorers (and really, Rose doesn't much qualify as a #1 scorer anyway; his shooting percentage is mediocre). Horford can handle Boozer, and Josh Smith should be able to handle Deng (though it feels really weird to root against those two). I'm not saying I expect the Hawks to win the series (I don't); just that it wouldn't totally shock me if they did.
That said, I think this is pretty much the Hawks' ceiling as they are currently constituted. They've so handcuffed themselves with the Joe Johnson contract that I don't see them ever getting over the next hump with this group, and as he deteriorates in the last couple of years of the deal, I believe the Hawks will dip back down into the lottery.

[CDu]

Not yet. The early word was that it was a hamstring injury of some sort, and an MRI was scheduled for sometime today (might actually be going on right now). John Hollinger at ESPN says there's no update, but that Hinrich is moving better today.
As another Atlantan, allow me to say that I think last night's game was the Hawks' biggest win in 15 or 20 years. I know this is the third straight year they've been to the second round, but the past couple of first-round series, at least according to seed, have been ones they were supposed to win. This is the first time they've jumped up and beaten one of the so-called "big boys." I also think the Hawks have a better chance against the Bulls than most think. Rose is of course a problem for just about any team, but the Hawks match up pretty well against Chicago's other scorers (and really, Rose doesn't much qualify as a #1 scorer anyway; his shooting percentage is mediocre). Horford can handle Boozer, and Josh Smith should be able to handle Deng (though it feels really weird to root against those two). I'm not saying I expect the Hawks to win the series (I don't); just that it wouldn't totally shock me if they did.
That said, I think this is pretty much the Hawks' ceiling as they are currently constituted. They've so handcuffed themselves with the Joe Johnson contract that I don't see them ever getting over the next hump with this group, and as he deteriorates in the last couple of years of the deal, I believe the Hawks will dip back down into the lottery.

I'm hoping the bolded is facetiousness. Rose is averaging 1.3 points per shot attempt, which is pretty good. And that's in spite of shooting 37% so far in the playoffs. He's getting to the line a ridiculous amount. I think he's on the short list of best #1 scorers in the league. I think Rose is a big problem for the Hawks, especially if Hinrich is out.

I wasn't terribly impressed with the Hawks/Magic series. Neither team played great. The Magic couldn't shoot to save their lives AND were sloppy with the ball. The Hawks did just enough to beat a team playing pretty bad basketball.

That doesn't mean the Hawks can't give the Bulls trouble. They do present a bad matchup for Boozer. But I think the Bulls are better defensively and are more aggressive than the Magic, and they have a better creator in Rose. Plus, they work hard off the ball, and that's the sort of thing that gives guys like Smith (who can get lazy) trouble. I think Deng is going to have an edge on Smith (if the Hawks go big) or Williams (if they go smaller) rather than the other way around.

[wilson]

I'm hoping the bolded is facetiousness. Rose is averaging 1.3 points per shot attempt, which is pretty good. And that's in spite of shooting 37% so far in the playoffs. He's getting to the line a ridiculous amount. I think he's on the short list of best #1 scorers in the league. Yeah, I overstated a bit, but for once, the Hawks have generally played terrific defense during these playoffs. If they can bottle up the other Bulls while letting Rose get his (similar to their approach vs. Dwight and the Magic), the Bulls could have their hands full (big stress on "could"). That's all I was getting at.

[CDu]

Yeah, I overstated a bit, but for once, the Hawks have generally played terrific defense during these playoffs. If they can bottle up the other Bulls while letting Rose get his (similar to their approach vs. Dwight and the Magic), the Bulls could have their hands full (big stress on "could"). That's all I was getting at.

I think that two big challenges for the Hawks will be scoring (the Bulls held them to 83, 81, and 76 points in the three meetings this season) and balancing paying enough attention to Rose while not losing track of guys like Noah, Gibson, and Deng (who are very opportunistic players off the ball). Rose presents a much different challenge than Howard, and if the Hawks get caught chasing Rose then Noah and Deng could have a good time sneaking in for second chance/dumpoff opportunities.

[darjum]

I am a Hawks fan for sure, but if there is one thing I HOPE doesn't happen, it's Marvin Williams outplaying Deng. I also think the chances of that happening are incredibly small. Williams may have a good game or two, but Deng will be much more consistent and a better defender overall. I think the things you pointed out are really good, though. Horford and Smith should give Boozer fits. We'll see some Smith at SF as well, so sometimes he'll go up against Deng when Collins and Horford are both in at the same time. My biggest question for the Hawks is when we go with our big time offensive unit (no real PG with Crawford and Joe Johnson in there at the same time) who's gonna guard Rose? Johnson's got a huge size advantage but a major quickness disadvantage. Crawford seems like the obvious choice, but defense and Jamaal Crawford have been strangers for a very long time now. We'll see.

Yes, Deng will dominate that match up, but ATl does need for Williams to be somewhat effective to stand any chance.

The defense of Rose has to be team, especially with Kirk's injury. The Hawks have to be physical any time he enters the lane. Unfortunately I'm not sure it's in their DNA to do that, say like the Celtics would.

I do feel Crawford may be effective offensively in this series though, but yes defensively he won't be making any mixtapes of his performance on Rose.

[darjum]

Dwight went 27 and 15 with 2 blocks in this series. He even hit 68% of his free throws. And they lost.

The Magic are lousy, relative to what they should be. And Dwight can't get out of there fast enough.

...I'll give 'em Amar'e and Billups for Dwight. I'll even take back the husk of Gilbert Arenas.

I'd say Bulls in 6. The Hawks are your classic team that's very good... but just not great. That said, they have an athletic and versatile frontcourt, Joe's looking good after an underwhelming regular season, and Crawford's doing his thing right now. It's not like they have no shot. But they have zero answer for Rose. (Who does? But Atlanta even less than others)

It could be Hakeem all over again...early career success (as Hakeem had in 86), a major lull in the middle (will happen for Howard if he stays), then success closer to the end of prime (for Howard once all the terrible contracts go away). Either way he should just take his talents to South Beach...maybe not :p

[Reilly]

interesting article featuring Tony from earlier this season:

http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2010/oct/25/qa-with-tony-barone-sr-and-tony-barone-jr-the/?print=1

[diveonthefloor]

Battier is nails.

Grizzlies wouldn't be denied in the GrindHouse.

[diveonthefloor]

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/sp/getty/2c/fullj.03b2531b92bbd071427738196e15a355/03b2531b92bbd071427738196e15a355-getty-112184444al021_san_antionio.jpg

[darjum]

I seem to remember when Dallas was ousted from the playoffs by Golden St as a #1 seed they copped so much flak for it. Will the same happen to the Spurs? It appears the same level of venom is not attributed to the Spurs? Maybe it's because Dirk was MVP, but still, Dallas really got smashed in the media.

I was hoping that the Spurs would get to play OKC in the 2nd round but they simply didn't deserve to. Congrats to Memphis and Battier was so great.

[theAlaskanBear]

I seem to remember when Dallas was ousted from the playoffs by Golden St as a #1 seed they copped so much flak for it. Will the same happen to the Spurs? It appears the same level of venom is not attributed to the Spurs? Maybe it's because Dirk was MVP, but still, Dallas really got smashed in the media.

I was hoping that the Spurs would get to play OKC in the 2nd round but they simply didn't deserve to. Congrats to Memphis and Battier was so great.

There is a double-standard, but it is deserved. The Mavs are still answering questions about winning the big one...while the Spurs have been the best program (other than the Lakers) the last 10 years. Since Duncan arrived they have the BEST winning % of all pro franchises at .699.

Also, what a great game last night. When the Spurs took their first lead late in the 4th, you could hear the nerves in the stadium and on the court. And Zack Randolph answered. I have rarely seen a PF so "on". He would throw up a shot anywhere from inside the 3pt arc and it would go in. He has such a soft touch and great hands for such a big, bulky dude. Some of those shots over McDyess were really well guarded -- I thought he would get stuffed a couple of times, instead he drained them.

Oh yeah, and Tony Allen = defense. He played out of his mind last night. Will be interesting to see the OKC-Memphis series, because while Memphis are bruisers down low, Ibaka and Perkins have great defensive reps. And Memphis can't match OKC guards but have two very good defenders in Tony Allen and Battier...can anyone stop Durant and Westbrook (well, Durant at least).

@Vasquez: came up really really big when Conley was in foul trouble the entire game. Also, it is reaaaallly annoying to hear "Vas-QWEZ" out of the announcer. Vas-KEZ.

[darjum]

There is a double-standard, but it is deserved. The Mavs are still answering questions about winning the big one...while the Spurs have been the best program (other than the Lakers) the last 10 years. Since Duncan arrived they have the BEST winning % of all pro franchises at .699.

Also, what a great game last night. When the Spurs took their first lead late in the 4th, you could hear the nerves in the stadium and on the court. And Zack Randolph answered. I have rarely seen a PF so "on". He would throw up a shot anywhere from inside the 3pt arc and it would go in. He has such a soft touch and great hands for such a big, bulky dude. Some of those shots over McDyess were really well guarded -- I thought he would get stuffed a couple of times, instead he drained them.

Oh yeah, and Tony Allen = defense. He played out of his mind last night. Will be interesting to see the OKC-Memphis series, because while Memphis are bruisers down low, Ibaka and Perkins have great defensive reps. And Memphis can't match OKC guards but have two very good defenders in Tony Allen and Battier...can anyone stop Durant and Westbrook (well, Durant at least).

@Vasquez: came up really really big when Conley was in foul trouble the entire game. Also, it is reaaaallly annoying to hear "Vas-QWEZ" out of the announcer. Vas-KEZ.

I have to admit Vasquez was great. When Conley went out early in the first I thought the Spurs would knuckle down and grind out an early lead, but not so.

I agree with your point about the Spurs already having success, acknowledged. For such a long time they have been such a treat to watch. I'm not one of those people that thinks they're boring to watch. But losing to the #8 seed when they have the second best record in the entire NBA is not okay and it SHOULD be slammed. We pummeled Seattle when they lost to Denver, same for Dallas losing to Golden State. The Spurs shouldn't get a pass based on past achievement, this was an almighty stuff up. Memphis is playing without their MAX money player in Rudy Gay! But yes, Randolph was as good as it gets, what a series for him.

No, the Spurs let slip one massive opportunity and they deserve any and all criticism. No excuses for a team that has all that championship experience, they didn't look 'old' gathering 61 wins in the regular season, I do realize that the post season is a different animal, but 61 wins is a big number to be losing in the first round with. Just imagine if Duke was a #1 seed and lost in the first or second round of the tournament! Argh! This board would go into meltdown. It will be very interesting to see how the franchise moves forward after this, some big questions will need to be asked.

For what it's worth I actually see OKC rolling Memphis reasonably easily, maybe 4-1. It's fairy even as far as match ups go until you get to Durant, throw Rudy Gay at him and we have a different series. But without Gay look for the Thunder to put the foot down early. At this stage OKCvLAL seems inevitable.

[Reilly]

Maybe San Antonio suffered from the Danny Ferry curse? In 2009-10, Danny's the Cleveland GM and they don't get it done, and now in 2010-11 he's back with San Antonio and they falter.

[darjum]

Maybe San Antonio suffered from the Danny Ferry curse? In 2009-10, Danny's the Cleveland GM and they don't get it done, and now in 2010-11 he's back with San Antonio and they falter.

2002-2003 NBA Champion...Danny Ferry...no curse for that man...thus far he has one more than LeBron.

[sagegrouse]

I have to admit Vasquez was great. When Conley went out early in the first I thought the Spurs would knuckle down and grind out an early lead, but not so.

I agree with your point about the Spurs already having success, acknowledged. For such a long time they have been such a treat to watch. I'm not one of those people that thinks they're boring to watch. But losing to the #8 seed when they have the second best record in the entire NBA is not okay and it SHOULD be slammed. We pummeled Seattle when they lost to Denver, same for Dallas losing to Golden State. The Spurs shouldn't get a pass based on past achievement, this was an almighty stuff up. Memphis is playing without their MAX money player in Rudy Gay! But yes, Randolph was as good as it gets, what a series for him.

No, the Spurs let slip one massive opportunity and they deserve any and all criticism. No excuses for a team that has all that championship experience, they didn't look 'old' gathering 61 wins in the regular season, I do realize that the post season is a different animal, but 61 wins is a big number to be losing in the first round with. Just imagine if Duke was a #1 seed and lost in the first or second round of the tournament! Argh! This board would go into meltdown. It will be very interesting to see how the franchise moves forward after this, some big questions will need to be asked.

For what it's worth I actually see OKC rolling Memphis reasonably easily, maybe 4-1. It's fairy even as far as match ups go until you get to Durant, throw Rudy Gay at him and we have a different series. But without Gay look for the Thunder to put the foot down early. At this stage OKCvLAL seems inevitable.

Congratulations to the Grizz, but I hope everyone here recognizes that Memphis tanked its last two games in order to face the skilled, but undersized and ancient Spurs instead of the Lakers. Uh,... like in losing at home to the Clips in its last game with Zach Randolph, Mike Conley and Tony Allen sitting on the bench. And in sitting Allen and Randolph the game before in a loss at Portland.

The big and strong Lakers would have been a much tougher matchup for the Grizzlies.

sagegrouse

[SupaDave]

Congratulations to the Grizz, but I hope everyone here recognizes that Memphis tanked its last two games in order to face the skilled, but undersized and ancient Spurs instead of the Lakers. Uh,... like in losing at home to the Clips in its last game with Zach Randolph, Mike Conley and Tony Allen sitting on the bench. And in sitting Allen and Randolph the game before in a loss at Portland.

The big and strong Lakers would have been a much tougher matchup for the Grizzlies.

sagegrouse

Well basketball is a game of well... STRATEGY. NFL teams do it as well, in fantasy football you pray that the Pats don't sit Brady or the Colts sit Manning before the playoffs. So the Grizz did it in the process of also getting some rest for their players. Why should this taint a win over the team with the best record in the NBA? It's not like they were hoping to play the Clippers.

I'm very impressed with this YOUNG Grizzlies team. Getting 2nd Round revenue and it seems they've found an identity after very many years. Zach Randolph? Who would have thunk it?

And btw, since they are STILL in the playoffs the Lakers REMAIN a tougher matchup (and well - that goes for everybody with Bynum playing well).

[COYS]

Yeah, I overstated a bit, but for once, the Hawks have generally played terrific defense during these playoffs. If they can bottle up the other Bulls while letting Rose get his (similar to their approach vs. Dwight and the Magic), the Bulls could have their hands full (big stress on "could"). That's all I was getting at.

Defense will indeed be the key, which is why we need Heinrich healthy and ready. Rose is going to get his. The Hawks just have to make him as inefficient as possible without allowing the supporting cast to go bananas. It will be tough for the Hawks to win, but the Bulls have not been particularly dominant in the playoffs, either. Rose is really, really good, but in my mind he's still not quite in the top 5 of NBA players. While deserving of an MVP award, he benefited greatly from the Lebron/Wade backlash, the "old news-ness" of Kobe/Lakers, and a sub-par year from the Magic that overshadowed Howard's best season. This is not to say that I don't think Rose is an elite player. However, he is far from infallible and I'd venture to say less of a matchup nightmare for the Hawks than Dwight Howard. It's the supporting cast of the Bulls PLUS Rose that really makes it such a long shot. The Hawks will have to shoot well, stay out of foul trouble, and defend Rose well without letting Deng, Noah, Boozer, and Korver go off. It's a tall task, to be sure. But I don't think it's entirely impossible and I would be very disappointed if the Hawks roll over like they did against the Magic last year.

(For the record, I also wish Atlanta and the Bulls could do a straight team for team deal: we give you all of our guys including one UNC bust that Hawks fans who are also Duke fans have to look at while thinking "you could have been Chris Paul or Deron Williams!" We get an exciting player like Rose plus two Dukies to root for and a brighter future. Sounds fair, right :cool: )

[wilson]

I seem to remember when Dallas was ousted from the playoffs by Golden St as a #1 seed they copped so much flak for it. Will the same happen to the Spurs? It appears the same level of venom is not attributed to the Spurs? Maybe it's because Dirk was MVP, but still, Dallas really got smashed in the media.I think it's apples and oranges to a large extent. The current Spurs regime has won four titles, and they're (totally understandably) coming down the back stretch of several key players' careers, most notably Duncan and Ginobili. On top of that, Memphis is a young team on the rise that caught a break when Manu got hurt, stole Game 1 in San Antonio, and used that to generate momentum. Furthermore, this is one of the deepest, most unpredictable NBA Playoff fields in years.
When Dallas lost to the Warriors, on the other hand, it was a series that they flat-out should have won. Golden State caught lightning in a bottle during that series much as the Grizzlies did, but I think the Grizzlies' performance is more an indication of things generally heading in the right direction than was the Warriors' (what has Golden State done since then?). For the Mavs, whose beloved, high-performing core still hasn't won a title, that was but more ammo for the critics who charge that they've been an underachieving franchise in the playoffs.

[wilson]

I'm very impressed with this YOUNG Grizzlies team. Getting 2nd Round revenue and it seems they've found an identity after very many years. Zach Randolph? Who would have thunk it?Not to mention Marc Gasol's coming out party. He's been very good so far in these playoffs (perhaps he's not the stiff everyone thought he was when he got traded for his brother?). Things are definitely looking up for the Grizzlies. I love to see it for Shane, who is very probably the most beloved member of that team in Memphis.

[wilson]

The latest on Hinrich is that he is "doubtful to play in the Conference semis." (http://www.ajc.com/sports/atlanta-hawks/hinrichs-injury-is-major-930159.html)
That's a huge, huge blow to the Hawks' hopes. Not only was he the defender best suited to handle Rose, he also is the best shooter on a team whose overall shooting abilities (and shot selection) often leave a great deal to be desired. I hate to be dismissive, but I have a hard time envisioning how the Hawks can take the Bulls down without Hinrich.

[COYS]

The latest on Hinrich is that he is "doubtful to play in the Conference semis." (http://www.ajc.com/sports/atlanta-hawks/hinrichs-injury-is-major-930159.html)
That's a huge, huge blow to the Hawks' hopes. Not only was he the defender best suited to handle Rose, he also is the best shooter on a team whose overall shooting abilities (and shot selection) often leave a great deal to be desired. I hate to be dismissive, but I have a hard time envisioning how the Hawks can take the Bulls down without Hinrich.

Ugh. Really stinks. I am a realistic Hawks fan and I understand that the team probably doesn't have a real chance of emerging from the East. However, I would at least like to have all our weapons when we go into battle. Feel bad for Kirk, too, who would've had a shot at his former team.