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Lord Ash
04-06-2011, 07:42 PM
This was brought up on another forum... who do you think will be tabbed as captains next year? We don't have a lot of guys who seem to fit that role "naturally." Does Miles get a captaincy? He doesn't seem like the assertive type who totally fits that role. Does Seth? Yeah, he has only played one full year at Duke, but he was on the team during the title year, he played with Jon and Nolan and Kyle, and he clearly has a host of potential? Is there anyone else who would even be in the running?

One of the more puzzling captain discussions I can recall.

weezie
04-06-2011, 07:51 PM
Great point. But, I think it's Miles alone. He looked pretty good in the stretch and there were flashes. Might be a tough summer for him, training wise but I think my money's on him.

J4Kop99
04-06-2011, 07:52 PM
I would have to think Miles will definitely be a captain. I don't know if they will have more than one but if they do, I guess Miles and Curry?

uh_no
04-06-2011, 08:07 PM
I would have to think Miles will definitely be a captain. I don't know if they will have more than one but if they do, I guess Miles and Curry?

I'm with you. Seth showed this year he was ready to lead. Academically he's a senior, so who knows if he'll be back after the year anyway. Seth and miles is my vote.

diveonthefloor
04-06-2011, 08:15 PM
Miles and Seth.

I know he's a year away, but I would consider Andre also. The emotion he brings is unique, and it would be a great way for K to reward Andre, especially if it looks like Andre will be the 6th man based on personnel.

uh_no
04-06-2011, 08:17 PM
Miles and Seth.

I know he's a year away, but I would consider Andre also. The emotion he brings is unique, and it would be a great way for K to reward Andre, especially if it looks like Andre will be the 6th man based on personnel.

Judging by the apparent amount of time andre has spent in the doghouse over the past two years, I don't think he will earn the captaincy this year.

ncexnyc
04-06-2011, 08:22 PM
Judging by the apparent amount of time andre has spent in the doghouse over the past two years, I don't think he will earn the captaincy this year.
I won't touch the doghouse comment, but I think that someone who has such wide emotional swings isn't suited to be a team captain.

Lord Ash
04-06-2011, 08:31 PM
I'm with you. Seth showed this year he was ready to leave. Academically he's a senior, so who knows if he'll be back after the year anyway. Seth and miles is my vote.

Paging Dr. Freud! Dr. Freud, to the Elizabeth King forum!:)

I would hesitate to put Dre in the captaincy... I think it would be much more of a "growing" role for him than a "he is, at this moment, ready for this" position, and I don't know if that will happen.

uh_no
04-06-2011, 08:34 PM
Paging Dr. Freud! Dr. Freud, to the Elizabeth King forum!:)

I would hesitate to put Dre in the captaincy... I think it would be much more of a "growing" role for him than a "he is, at this moment, ready for this" position, and I don't know if that will happen.

Hahaha. Good call. Obvsiouly I meant lead, but what was running through my head was that this will be seth's 4th year of college, so he may well graduate and LEAVE the program despite his continued eligibility. He will likely be ready both athletically and academically.

DukeDevilDeb
04-06-2011, 08:40 PM
I think Seth would be an excellent captain. I agree that Dre has not yet displayed the leadership and consistency necessary for that role. My comments on Miles depend on who makes the decisions... do the players vote or does K select?

sagegrouse
04-06-2011, 08:43 PM
I think Seth would be an excellent captain. I agree that Dre has not yet displayed the leadership and consistency necessary for that role. My comments on Miles depend on who makes the decisions... do the players vote or does K select?

Uh, who promotes lieutenants to captains in the Army? It ain't the sergeants and the other lieutenants. K chooses the captains, occasionally adding one during the season.

Maybe Miles and Seth?

sagegrouse

Newton_14
04-06-2011, 08:48 PM
I think it will be 2 of (Miles, Ryan, Seth, Mason). Surprised no one else mentioned Ryan. I am torn actually. I could see K going with Seth & Ryan, or Miles & Seth, or Seth & Mason,. I don't think K would go with Miles & Mason, but any of the other combinations between the 4 players would not surprise me.

Do not see Andre being a Captain this year, but could see him in that role as a Senior.

uh_no
04-06-2011, 08:52 PM
I think it will be 2 of (Miles, Ryan, Seth, Mason). Surprised no one else mentioned Ryan. I am torn actually. I could see K going with Seth & Ryan, or Miles & Seth, or Seth & Mason,. I don't think K would go with Miles & Mason, but any of the other combinations between the 4 players would not surprise me.

Do not see Andre being a Captain this year, but could see him in that role as a Senior.

I just haven't seen the leadership out of ryan to consider him a captain. K said several years ago that he strongly preferred senior captains, though they do happen. I just don't see anything special either in play or leadership that would warrant ryan or mason being captain. I only promote seth since he was a huge factor in our success after kyrie went out (and I think his going out against arizona sealed our fate). This coupled with the good chance that this will be his last year in the program (as he is academically a senior) makes me think he's captain material.

RoyalBlue08
04-06-2011, 09:38 PM
Well, Miles is already captain of the Plumlee family, which is something like 48.5% of the roster, so I think he is a good choice. Seth strikes me as a leader too, and he is older given his year off, so I think he might get to be a captain as well.

(All math in this post is approximate!)

Newton_14
04-06-2011, 09:45 PM
I just haven't seen the leadership out of ryan to consider him a captain. K said several years ago that he strongly preferred senior captains, though they do happen. I just don't see anything special either in play or leadership that would warrant ryan or mason being captain. I only promote seth since he was a huge factor in our success after kyrie went out (and I think his going out against arizona sealed our fate). This coupled with the good chance that this will be his last year in the program (as he is academically a senior) makes me think he's captain material.

He prefers Seniors, agree there. Problem is Miles is the only Senior. We actually had a Soph captain in 07. This is just going to be one of those lean years in terms of Seniors. If I had to bet on it right now, I would say K picks Seth and Miles. There just aren't any candidates that really jump out at you and scream "he's definitely a captain" with this group. In fairness though, that is not to say that 2 of the 4 can't end up being good leaders/captains. They may surprise us.

On another note, I don't see next year being Seth's last year. I feel he will use all of his eligibility. Given it is unlikely Seth would be a lottery pick, there is really no incentive to bypass his Senior Year at Duke. I think he stays.

Fish80
04-06-2011, 09:47 PM
Don't forget Tyler. He's tough as nails and a natural leader.

Newton_14
04-06-2011, 09:54 PM
Don't forget Tyler. He's tough as nails and a natural leader.

One year too early for Tyler. Agree totally with your thoughts on him, and I feel he is leadership material no doubt and will grow into a great leader at Duke. However, K also prefer's that the captains be guys that see a lot of playing time. I think Tyler will get decent PT this year, but, I think it will be his Junior year before he sees PT in the 20-30 minute range, which is what I feel K would want from a Captain.

Raleighfan
04-06-2011, 09:59 PM
He prefers Seniors, agree there. Problem is Miles is the only Senior. We actually had a Soph captain in 07. This is just going to be one of those lean years in terms of Seniors. If I had to bet on it right now, I would say K picks Seth and Miles. There just aren't any candidates that really jump out at you and scream "he's definitely a captain" with this group. In fairness though, that is not to say that 2 of the 4 can't end up being good leaders/captains. They may surprise us.

On another note, I don't see next year being Seth's last year. I feel he will use all of his eligibility. Given it is unlikely Seth would be a lottery pick, there is really no incentive to bypass his Senior Year at Duke. I think he stays.

Next year will be Seth's 4th year of college...remember he did his freshman year at Liberty. He's now a rising senior, academically, with two years left of eligibility.

Newton_14
04-06-2011, 10:04 PM
Next year will be Seth's 4th year of college...remember he did his freshman year at Liberty. He's now a rising senior, academically, with two years left of eligibility.

Yeah, I understand that. Uh No feels that Seth will play next season at Duke and then declare for the draft. I was stating that I feel Seth will play 2 more years at Duke, using all of his eligibility. I do not feel Seth will be a lottery pick after next season, and I expect because of that, he likely comes back and plays that final season at Duke.

He may prove me wrong, which is fine. Just how I see it as of right now.

burns15
04-07-2011, 12:07 AM
I just haven't seen the leadership out of ryan to consider him a captain. K said several years ago that he strongly preferred senior captains, though they do happen. I just don't see anything special either in play or leadership that would warrant ryan or mason being captain. I only promote seth since he was a huge factor in our success after kyrie went out (and I think his going out against arizona sealed our fate). This coupled with the good chance that this will be his last year in the program (as he is academically a senior) makes me think he's captain material.

I really don't think this will be Seth's last year in the program. The kid transferred to the ACC and Duke for a reason. Unless his is projected to go highly in the NBA draft, which he is not right now, I cannot see any way that he just graduates and then attempts to play in Europe or on a summer league team. The kid would have a chance to make another run at a national title and increase his stock or just graduate, no way he just graduates (we are not talking about Marty Pocius here, no knock on him)

uh_no
04-07-2011, 12:20 AM
I really don't think this will be Seth's last year in the program. The kid transferred to the ACC and Duke for a reason. Unless his is projected to go highly in the NBA draft, which he is not right now, I cannot see any way that he just graduates and then attempts to play in Europe or on a summer league team. The kid would have a chance to make another run at a national title and increase his stock or just graduate, no way he just graduates (we are not talking about Marty Pocius here, no knock on him)

This was kind of a funny year, we saw flashes of his greatness, and I think with kyrie and nolan gone, he will turn into a true star, much like kemba did this year (not that i'm holding him up to kemba-like expectations, but I think he will be close to the quality needed to forgo a year of eligibility.

We'll have to see!

dbluedevil222
04-07-2011, 12:27 AM
Hoping that Mason steps up into a 17/12 kinda guy... not expecting just hoping. A change in leadership could lead to a boost in production.

burns15
04-07-2011, 12:30 AM
This was kind of a funny year, we saw flashes of his greatness, and I think with kyrie and nolan gone, he will turn into a true star, much like kemba did this year (not that i'm holding him up to kemba-like expectations, but I think he will be close to the quality needed to forgo a year of eligibility.

We'll have to see!

See I don't doubt you, and I certainly hope he will break out. I know he is capable of doing it... I just disagree with the fact that he will leave early, because I don't think he will be lottery material.

In order to become lottery material, Seth, IMO, would have to significantly develop his point guard skills and ability to run a team with the ball in his hands. Also he would need to develop his quickness and ball-handling to the point where he could attack the rim to score or dish, consistently. The reason for this is that there is not a lot of demand for 6'2'' SGs in the NBA, no matter how well you can shoot the ball.

Now, some team may value him highly because they were burned by passing on Stephen and don't want to be burned again.. so you may be right

I think Seth will have a wonderful season, possibly a 1st-team ALL-ACC caliber season... I just don't see the measurables or the PG skills that scouts will want to see to draft him in the lottery. This is not to say that he won't be successful in the NBA, just to say that his draft stock will not reflect it.

uh_no
04-07-2011, 12:33 AM
The reason for this is that there is not a lot of demand for 6'2'' SGs in the NBA, no matter how well you can shoot the ball.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Curry_(basketball)

just sayin :)

I know you covered this point, but my opinion of seth is that he's very very much like his brother (take a look at his freshman year when he played on teams similar to his brother's davidson teams), he took a year off, then came into a loaded backcourt where he couldn't really shine. He'll finally get a chance next year, austin will draw huge amounts of attention and seth will certainly get opportunities to shine next year. He scored 20+ a game in his freshman year! thats crazy!

the talent is there, it just has to have an opportunity to shine

J4Kop99
04-07-2011, 12:37 AM
Hoping that Mason steps up into a 17/12 kinda guy... not expecting just hoping. A change in leadership could lead to a boost in production.

I don't know about leadership as much as a change of personnel. We will not be as guard-oriented as we have been in past years.

Last year our top 3 players were all guards. Nolan, Kyle and Kyrie had the ball in thier hands a majority of the time and they played out on the perimeter. Now with all 3 leaving, I think Coach will make it a point to utilize our bigs. Mason can definitely have a big year if he puts the work in this summer.

Austin may be our go-to guy but Mason and Miles have the experience and talent to be important players for us down low. Add with that some great shooters, some athletes and a couple other big bodies and we have a solid mixture of talent.

We will not be nearly as guard-oriented next year.

If I had to guess, I would say Austin would be our #1 offensive option, with Mason being our #2.

Anyways, the 17/12 might be too much but he definitely can be close to that. I expect him to get a decent amount of touches each game.

weezie
04-07-2011, 06:52 AM
...I think that someone who has such wide emotional swings isn't suited to be a team captain.

Yet.

I don't know if what we see is moodiness or extreme frustration with his own play. I'd bet the latter and I also think he would blossom as a captain when/if the time comes. I'll bet it's something he would be very good at, having struggled at times with his emotions.
His time is coming.

OZZIE4DUKE
04-07-2011, 09:07 AM
I think that Miles and Seth will be two of our captains, and that we'll have either two or three captains. The additional captain, if we have three, will be either Mason or Ryan. I doubt the choices will be announced anytime soon (i.e., at the banquet next week, which you can read as before the NBA draft timetable), because last time we did that, Mike Dunleavy upset the apple cart.

GLTBD
04-07-2011, 10:08 AM
My guess would be Miles because he is a senior and Seth.

-bdbd
04-07-2011, 11:26 AM
I think that Miles and Seth will be two of our captains, and that we'll have either two or three captains. The additional captain, if we have three, will be either Mason or Ryan. I doubt the choices will be announced anytime soon (i.e., at the banquet next week, which you can read as before the NBA draft timetable), because last time we did that, Mike Dunleavy upset the apple cart.

Concur. Though I could see Dawkins getting into the action as well, which might boost his confidence, steadiness and expectations.

So Seth and Miles, and maybe one other from 'dre, Mason or Ryan. My sense was that Ryan wasn't quite a real team leader yet, but I'm distant and could be mistaken (but think Mason or 'dre more likely).

DukeDevilDeb
04-07-2011, 11:49 AM
My guess would be Miles because he is a senior and Seth.

that you think that a senior automatically gets to be captain? I agree about Seth but don't know about Miles

licc85
04-07-2011, 12:20 PM
yea . . I dunno when Miles suddenly became a great leader, but he's not really captain material imo. It's not just whoever is a senior. Otherwise, Zoubs would have been co-captains with Jon and Lance last year. I can see Seth being the only captain or Seth with Ryan. Ryan would be a good captain because he obviously pays attention during film sessions and during practice because you can see how much he's improved game to game. He knows where to be and he knows where his teammates should be on the floor. Plus, he's going to be a junior and probably a starter. Gonna need some offense that isn't just dunks in the frontcourt next year. I feel like Miles has hit his ceiling already while Mason and Ryan still have a great deal of untapped potential. We could see those guys really take off next year. (I hope)

94duke
04-07-2011, 12:32 PM
We could always start the year with no captains. Coach K could say that it's up for grabs. Who wants it?!

Austin Rivers for Captain!

:eek: :rolleyes: :cool:

But seriously, I can't remember when it was harder to guess who the captains would be. Who will lead this team? Who really is the face of Duke Basketball next year? Is it Miles or Mason? Is it Seth or Ryan? It's likely to be Austin. He is going to be expected to lead this team from day 1, though I'm not saying he should be captain either. To be honest, right now, no one stands out as a captain to me. There are too many questions. Will someone step up over the summer? Hopefully someone will want to grab this team by the horns, and Coach K will see that and say, "Hey, you're the guy. You're going to lead this team." This is likely not a question that will be answered before next year.

4decadedukie
04-07-2011, 12:44 PM
He prefers Seniors, agree there. Problem is Miles is the only Senior.

I respectfully disagree. Seth Curry is a senior, having (certainly by 1 June) successfully completed three collegiate academic years; class status is determined by the university's registrar, not by the knuckelheads who write the annual football or basketball programs. I am always disappointed when commentators and pundits term a student-athlete enrolled in postgraduate school as a "fifth year senior," or title an academic sophomore as a "red shirt freshman," and so forth. After all, these individuals are students first, and their scholastic standing is not related to years of NCAA eligibility expended or remaining. There are many examples of this inadvertently insulting trend, such as Greg Paulus (as a Syracuse graduate student) normally being referred to as a "fifth year senior" and Jay Williams (who graduated from Duke in only three years) being termed "a junior," when -- in fact -- he was a senior.

NSDukeFan
04-07-2011, 01:16 PM
I think that Miles and Seth will be two of our captains, and that we'll have either two or three captains. The additional captain, if we have three, will be either Mason or Ryan. I doubt the choices will be announced anytime soon (i.e., at the banquet next week, which you can read as before the NBA draft timetable), because last time we did that, Mike Dunleavy upset the apple cart.

I have the feeling that we will be seeing a breakout year from Mason this year and that he will be a leader on the court. I think he will be considered for a captain's position, along with Seth, Miles and Ryan. Are captains often announced before summer workouts or can leaders develop over the summer? Maybe the team could have an tri-Plumlee captaincy? :)

burns15
04-07-2011, 02:57 PM
I respectfully disagree. Seth Curry is a senior, having (certainly by 1 June) successfully completed three collegiate academic years; class status is determined by the university's registrar, not by the knuckelheads who write the annual football or basketball programs. I am always disappointed when commentators and pundits term a student-athlete enrolled in postgraduate school as a "fifth year senior," or title an academic sophomore as a "red shirt freshman," and so forth. After all, these individuals are students first, and their scholastic standing is not related to years of NCAA eligibility expended or remaining. There are many examples of this inadvertently insulting trend, such as Greg Paulus (as a Syracuse graduate student) normally being referred to as a "fifth year senior" and Jay Williams (who graduated from Duke in only three years) being termed "a junior," when -- in fact -- he was a senior.

I don't see how its insulting to call someone a redshirt freshman or a fifth year senior. We refer to them as such because the references are made during athletic events by sports commentators. In that moment of reference by the commentator, nobody really cares whether they are an academic sophomore, junior, senior... all that matters is there current class as regards to the basketball court. This leads me to my second point, as far as this basketball team and conversation is concerned, Seth is a junior, not a senior. He has been in the program for what will be three years, academic records do not matter in this discussion

Scorp4me
04-07-2011, 03:06 PM
I feel like Miles has hit his ceiling already...(I hope)

Poor Miles. Lots of people feel this about him. I don't.

Jeff Frosh
04-07-2011, 03:21 PM
Poor Miles. Lots of people feel this about him. I don't.

Well you can add me to this minority. I think Miles will have an excellent senior year. He showed some pretty good flashes; he just needs to be more consistent, which might just come with more experience and confidence (and, hopefully, playing with two brothers). Who was/is looking more like he would/will have a substantial impact his senior year: Zoubek or Miles? Just saying. Perhaps being named a captain is just the confidence boost that he needs to take it to the next level.

4decadedukie
04-07-2011, 03:54 PM
. . . as far as this basketball team and conversation is concerned, Seth is a junior, not a senior. He has been in the program for what will be three years, academic records do not matter in this discussion

Seth already has concluded THREE years of intercollegiate basketball -- not two: a year at Liberty and two years at Duke (the first of which, he practiced daily with his varsity teammates). If you doubt the logic or the validity of this, you may wish to recall that Coach K was quite annoyed when the NCAA recently disallowed Duke's award of a Championship ring to Seth. Therefore, it certainly appears that the Head Men's Basketball Coach believed Seth was a part of the 2009-2010 Championship team, which obviously would mean that he is entering his fourth year of collegiate basketball experiences.

Duke: A Dynasty
04-07-2011, 04:11 PM
I just haven't seen the leadership out of ryan to consider him a captain. K said several years ago that he strongly preferred senior captains, though they do happen. I just don't see anything special either in play or leadership that would warrant ryan or mason being captain. I only promote seth since he was a huge factor in our success after kyrie went out (and I think his going out against arizona sealed our fate). This coupled with the good chance that this will be his last year in the program (as he is academically a senior) makes me think he's captain material.

Why would you think this is hiis last year? He has had 1 year at Liberty and 1 year of Duke. SO why would he not come back after this year? He has 2 remaining and is unlikely to get drafted very high next year so why would he not come back for one more?

Duke: A Dynasty
04-07-2011, 04:14 PM
Seth already has concluded THREE years of intercollegiate basketball -- not two: a year at Liberty and two years at Duke (the first of which, he practiced daily with his varsity teammates). If you doubt the logic or the validity of this, you may wish to recall that Coach K was quite annoyed when the NCAA recently disallowed Duke's award of a Championship ring to Seth. Therefore, it certainly appears that the Head Men's Basketball Coach believed Seth was a part of the 2009-2010 Championship team, which obviously would mean that he is entering his fourth year of collegiate basketball experiences.

This is simply just not true. He was redshirted because of the transfer so therefore that whole year does not count against him.

Coach K was upset because Seth was still on the team and helped in practice which helped prepare the team so he felt Seth should be rewarded as well.

MCFinARL
04-07-2011, 06:10 PM
Yet.

I don't know if what we see is moodiness or extreme frustration with his own play. I'd bet the latter and I also think he would blossom as a captain when/if the time comes. I'll bet it's something he would be very good at, having struggled at times with his emotions.
His time is coming.

I agree. I actually think taking on a responsibility like being a co-captain (don't see him as a sole captain this year, too soon to speculate about his senior year) would be good for Andre and for the team--knowing he has an important role even when his shot isn't falling would help him maintain his focus, and as you note, his own experiences would give him some good insights into how to support and motivate teammates. Not sure if these are the kinds of criteria Coach K is likely to apply, though.

In general, I think we can probably expect more captains rather than fewer--if I recall correctly that is what usually happens when there are no obvious senior team leaders. I'm thinking of DeMarcus Nelson, Greg Paulus and Josh McRoberts in 2006-07--for that matter, when Paulus was a senior, he was a tri-captain with John Scheyer and Gerald Henderson. We could definitely see something like that this year, given that, even if Austin Rivers ends up being the team leader on the floor, a freshman can't really be the official captain--or at least it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense, since he is new to the program. So perhaps Miles and two of the four juniors (counting Seth as a junior here), or even three juniors and not Miles?

Greg_Newton
04-07-2011, 06:19 PM
This is simply just not true. He was redshirted because of the transfer so therefore that whole year does not count against him.

Coach K was upset because Seth was still on the team and helped in practice which helped prepare the team so he felt Seth should be rewarded as well.

What? He's not arguing that he's in his last year of eligibility. He's just saying that, despite being a junior, Seth has already played 3 seasons of college basketball, for all relevant intents and purposes.

I guarantee you his redshirt year helped him just as much as his freshman year at Liberty in terms of "experience". Miles basically redshirted his freshman year too, so I'd say they're about even experience-wise.

SupaDave
04-07-2011, 06:48 PM
Coach K has already set a three captain precedent and in this particular situation I think it is MORE than necessary.

I believe these three folks to be Miles, Seth, and Andre for a few reasons. Some collectively, some individually.

All three showed flashes during the year - but they all really seemed to be clicking until team chemistry was thrown into chaos during the tourney.

Andre and Seth really learned to play together - having to play pretty much the same role this year. They will be huge together next year.

Andre - I think it mentally clicked for him at the end of the year - he was game.

Austin will make life easier for these guys then you think. Most know that I've always been Austin crazy and that step back three and deadly first step will leave a lot of teams picking their poison.

More on Andre - he reminds me of Gerald in many ways and has suffered setbacks during the season just as G did. But in that third year, G took off finally free to go full speed and fully motivated. Those spectacular blocks?? Dre can do that and I fully expect him to be our defensive stopper next season.

Off-season workouts

The precedent has been set. I fully expect everyone on this team to go CRAZY in the gym this summer. My three Plums have already proven to love the weights and this should be a year of leveling out for all but the youngest.

Andre will work on his strength, rebounding, dribbling, foot work, and foot speed. This will be the primary focus of his off-season workouts b/c Coach will let him know what's expected as our stopper.

Seth, he's gotta get stronger and develop that little floater - he'll need it.

But wait - there's more...

The above three players are special - they are members of a National Championship squad but there's one more who could get a nod.

And his name is Ryan Kelly. He brings work ethic, smarts, and commitment. This also should be HIS year. With added bulk and strength, an improved shooting touch, and some work on his agility, Kelly will be the next invaluable Duke player. Think McClure, Lance, and Melchionni all rolled up in one. (and anyone who remembers Melk knows that when he was on we won BIG). For all of your worries of UNC's inside game - he's the answer (that and some foul trouble provided by the sturdier My three Plums).

A four headed monster? It's possible...

burns15
04-07-2011, 07:03 PM
Coach K has already set a three captain precedent and in this particular situation I think it is MORE than necessary.

I believe these three folks to be Miles, Seth, and Andre for a few reasons. Some collectively, some individually.

All three showed flashes during the year - but they all really seemed to be clicking until team chemistry was thrown into chaos during the tourney.

Andre and Seth really learned to play together - having to play pretty much the same role this year. They will be huge together next year.

Andre - I think it mentally clicked for him at the end of the year - he was game.

Austin will make life easier for these guys then you think. Most know that I've always been Austin crazy and that step back three and deadly first step will leave a lot of teams picking their poison.

More on Andre - he reminds me of Gerald in many ways and has suffered setbacks during the season just as G did. But in that third year, G took off finally free to go full speed and fully motivated. Those spectacular blocks?? Dre can do that and I fully expect him to be our defensive stopper next season.

Off-season workouts

The precedent has been set. I fully expect everyone on this team to go CRAZY in the gym this summer. My three Plums have already proven to love the weights and this should be a year of leveling out for all but the youngest.

Andre will work on his strength, rebounding, dribbling, foot work, and foot speed. This will be the primary focus of his off-season workouts b/c Coach will let him know what's expected as our stopper.

Seth, he's gotta get stronger and develop that little floater - he'll need it.

But wait - there's more...

The above three players are special - they are members of a National Championship squad but there's one more who could get a nod.

And his name is Ryan Kelly. He brings work ethic, smarts, and commitment. This also should be HIS year. With added bulk and strength, an improved shooting touch, and some work on his agility, Kelly will be the next invaluable Duke player. Think McClure, Lance, and Melchionni all rolled up in one. (and anyone who remembers Melk knows that when he was on we won BIG). For all of your worries of UNC's inside game - he's the answer (that and some foul trouble provided by the sturdier My three Plums).

A four headed monster? It's possible...

I thought K vowed after that year to never again have 3 captains.

SupaDave
04-07-2011, 10:20 PM
I thought K vowed after that year to never again have 3 captains.

In case you're wondering - he's done it more than once...

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/sk20060819w3.html

Lord Ash
04-08-2011, 06:00 AM
Yeah, but what K does with Team USA might be different than what he does at Duke. While sure, there are some similarities, they are also wildly different teams featuring guys with a LOT different levels of experience and maturity.

As someone said, this is the hardest captaincy-call I can remember at Duke.

4decadedukie
04-08-2011, 10:19 AM
This is simply just not true. He was redshirted because of the transfer so therefore that whole year does not count against him.

Coach K was upset because Seth was still on the team and helped in practice which helped prepare the team so he felt Seth should be rewarded as well.


Please re-read my post with care; it indicates exactly what you said.

Specifically, Seth has three years of college varsity basketball experience: his first at Liberty, his second as a non-playing -- but practicing -- member of Duke's team, and his third as a playing and practicing member of Duke's team. While I agree he has two years of NCAA eligibility remaining, he is a senior and he has been a college varsity basketball player for three years.

gep
04-08-2011, 05:28 PM
If I recall correctly, didn't Lee Melchionni get named a captain by Coach K midway through his senior season? I also thought that Coach K didn't seem very positive to his 3-captain experiences, but did do it more than once. So, maybe Coach K names the "obvious" 2 captains, and possibly name a 3rd during the season?:cool:

THE FUTURE
04-08-2011, 05:34 PM
Curry and rivers because they will be on the floor more than anyboby and miles just because hes a senior

Jeff Frosh
04-08-2011, 05:56 PM
Curry and rivers because they will be on the floor more than anyboby and miles just because hes a senior

I am sorry, but a freshman will not be a captain. Period.

THE FUTURE
04-08-2011, 06:01 PM
k might not give him captain but i bet he will be very vocal in the huddle

MCFinARL
04-09-2011, 03:19 PM
k might not give him captain but i bet he will be very vocal in the huddle

Sure--there is floor leadership, which can come from a very talented freshman--as it did from Kyrie before he was hurt. And then there is all-around team leadership, which includes floor leadership but a lot more--the kind that a captain exercises. I don't see a freshman, no matter how talented, exercising this kind of leadership, because freshmen have so little experience with the Duke system.

Newton_14
04-09-2011, 07:00 PM
Sure--there is floor leadership, which can come from a very talented freshman--as it did from Kyrie before he was hurt. And then there is all-around team leadership, which includes floor leadership but a lot more--the kind that a captain exercises. I don't see a freshman, no matter how talented, exercising this kind of leadership, because freshmen have so little experience with the Duke system.

Agree. There is a lot that comes with being a captain. Lots of duties off the court including leading the summer workouts and teaching the new guys the ins and outs of everything from how to prepare for practice, games, workouts, and to things like learning drills, Duke's defensive scheme's, and on and on.

It takes experience and the freshmen just do not have it. No doubt Austin will be a leader on the floor during games, but that is different, like you say, than carrying out the full duties of a captain.

DukieinSoCal
04-15-2011, 12:52 PM
Agree. There is a lot that comes with being a captain. Lots of duties off the court including leading the summer workouts and teaching the new guys the ins and outs of everything from how to prepare for practice, games, workouts, and to things like learning drills, Duke's defensive scheme's, and on and on.

It takes experience and the freshmen just do not have it. No doubt Austin will be a leader on the floor during games, but that is different, like you say, than carrying out the full duties of a captain.

So, where will the team find it's leadership next season? Miles is the only obvious captain as the lone senior, but is he ready to lead? It might be hard to lead during games if he isn't even starting or playing starter minutes, which is not a given at all.

More importantly, who will be the extension of coach K on the floor? Who will get everyone organized, into the right sets, calm things down when necessary? Seth is a candidate, but he might not start, either. Could it be Quinn by sometime in the middle of the season? He certainly seems to embrace that role on his Oak Hill team.

There's going to be a huge void left by Nolan and Kyle, and while we may be able to replace them statistically, it will be really hard to replace their toughness, savvy, basketball IQ, and leadership qualities. That might be THE key to our success next year.

johnb
04-15-2011, 01:57 PM
One option is to name Miles the captain and then anoint a second leader at Christmas.

Devilsfan
04-15-2011, 11:46 PM
He really proved his on court leadership this year so he's a lock for captain in 2011-2012.

NSDukeFan
04-16-2011, 11:04 AM
He really proved his on court leadership this year so he's a lock for captain in 2011-2012.

Who? Kyle and Nolan have used up all of their eligibility.

SupaDave
04-16-2011, 01:39 PM
And his name is Ryan Kelly. He brings work ethic, smarts, and commitment. This also should be HIS year. With added bulk and strength, an improved shooting touch, and some work on his agility, Kelly will be the next invaluable Duke player. Think McClure, Lance, and Melchionni all rolled up in one. (and anyone who remembers Melk knows that when he was on we won BIG). For all of your worries of UNC's inside game - he's the answer (that and some foul trouble provided by the sturdier My three Plums).

•Coach’s Award (Player Exemplifying the Commitment and Values of Duke Basketball while Displaying Overall Improvement): Ryan Kelly

Devilsfan
04-16-2011, 09:26 PM
Thought Ryan was the smartest player on the team but unlike diving Duke gives absolutely NO credit for degree of difficulty in a student courses taken when figuring GPA or Latin honors awards. True shame.

MCFinARL
04-17-2011, 11:32 PM
Thought Ryan was the smartest player on the team but unlike diving Duke gives absolutely NO credit for degree of difficulty in a student courses taken when figuring GPA or Latin honors awards. True shame.

In theory, yes. But imagine the repercussions and complications of doing so. It's one thing in high school, where you can add GPA quality points for honors, AP and IB courses. But do you really want to be the person who has to tell, for example [and speaking PURELY hypothetically], the Sociology department that their courses are considered less difficult than, say, Organic Chemistry?

And, of course, what is hard for the student depends on the student's aptitudes and talents as well. If a student whose talents appear to lie primarily in quantitative fields manages a B+ in an advanced literature or philosophy course, should that be worth more than an A in the same course from a student whose inclination is to the humanities?

The only thing you might be able to do relatively objectively is give more credit for courses with higher course numbers or for, say, thesis work (although that is already recognized, when successful, with honors in the major).

Ryan Kelly is obviously a smart person (not just a smart player), but Mason Plumlee had a higher GPA, so apparently he is a pretty smart, and hardworking, person also. I don't think that is "a shame" at all, and I doubt Ryan Kelly does either.

sagegrouse
04-18-2011, 04:26 AM
In theory, yes. But imagine the repercussions and complications of doing so. It's one thing in high school, where you can add GPA quality points for honors, AP and IB courses. But do you really want to be the person who has to tell, for example [and speaking PURELY hypothetically], the Sociology department that their courses are considered less difficult than, say, Organic Chemistry?

And, of course, what is hard for the student depends on the student's aptitudes and talents as well. If a student whose talents appear to lie primarily in quantitative fields manages a B+ in an advanced literature or philosophy course, should that be worth more than an A in the same course from a student whose inclination is to the humanities?

The only thing you might be able to do relatively objectively is give more credit for courses with higher course numbers or for, say, thesis work (although that is already recognized, when successful, with honors in the major).

Ryan Kelly is obviously a smart person (not just a smart player), but Mason Plumlee had a higher GPA, so apparently he is a pretty smart, and hardworking, person also. I don't think that is "a shame" at all, and I doubt Ryan Kelly does either.

Here's where I want to be a fly on the wall: when the Provost and the Dean of Arts and Sciences tell a meeting of the faculty that Duke plans "to adjust reported grades for GPA purposes based on inherent degree of difficulty." Science and math courses would receive, say, an automatic 1.0 addition, unless grading were easy. Upper level courses would receive 0.5 (or some such). Courses where a majority of the class had historically received A's would receive a -0.5 penalty. Hah! What fun! The good folks with PhD's who talk and write for a living would go bonkers. The eruption would get national coverage.

sagegrouse

MCFinARL
04-18-2011, 06:53 AM
Here's where I want to be a fly on the wall: when the Provost and the Dean of Arts and Sciences tell a meeting of the faculty that Duke plans "to adjust reported grades for GPA purposes based on inherent degree of difficulty." Science and math courses would receive, say, an automatic 1.0 addition, unless grading were easy. Upper level courses would receive 0.5 (or some such). Courses where a majority of the class had historically received A's would receive a -0.5 penalty. Hah! What fun! The good folks with PhD's who talk and write for a living would go bonkers. The eruption would get national coverage.

sagegrouse

Yes, that sounds about right--and it would be fun to watch, as long as you didn't have to clean up the mess afterwards!

DevilWearsPrada
04-18-2011, 05:03 PM
I remember when the Captains of the Basketball team, were announced at the Mens Basketball Banquet.

There was no such Announcement about Captains on Friday night at the Banquet.

Summer practice and leadership will rise to the top, and Captains will be named in the Fall.

I wish Nolan and Kyle had another year! They were the best!

DeBlueDevil
04-22-2011, 09:30 AM
I remember when the Captains of the Basketball team, were announced at the Mens Basketball Banquet.

There was no such Announcement about Captains on Friday night at the Banquet.

Summer practice and leadership will rise to the top, and Captains will be named in the Fall.

I wish Nolan and Kyle had another year! They were the best!


The above is exactly what my main concern will be next year. There is no question that we will have tons of talent like every other year but the main thing that concerns me is who will bring that FIRE to the floor that Nolan and Kyle brought night in and out. Who will punch the other team back when we constantly take every teams best punch during games? The scary thing to me and this may not be totally accurate is that the only player that comes right to mind that has that type of swagger, confidence, and fire is Austin Rivers. But he'll only be a freshman! Can he handle that pressure?

Don't get me wrong I believe all our guys are ubber competitive I mean thats the only way you even get to the D-1 level is having that desire but sometimes when you're at Duke, being competitive is not enough to win games. You have to absolutely hate to lose and I think most of you can relate. Who is going to silence all the hostile environments like Maryland, V-Tech, UNC? Who is going to punch the St.John's and Arizona's back? Who is going to be the guy that when he is on the floor every body is calm because he has things under control?!! I mean how I see it (and again this may not be accurate):

Tyler T - a nice mild mannered kid, did well at Maryland last year but really wasn't asked to do much.
Seth - has shown potential to lead in games against UNC but others sometimes faded.
Andre - Not sure where his head will be sometimes but if he improves I could see a confidence boost.
Mason - Absolutely shows fire but not sure if he's the type to lead
Miles - Don't really think a leader is in his nature but he is the oldest
Josh H - Like Tyler T seems to be a mild mannered kid but didnt really get to see a lot of him on the court.
Quinn - Will play with a chip on his shoulder but we aren't even sure he'll see the court
Murphy - From what I've seen he doesn't seem like the in your face firey type.
Kelly - fundamental and consistent is his game..again doesnt strike me as the firey leader type.
Gbinje - from what I've heard from others he's more of a silent killer
Marshall - Fun and athletic but not sure his attitude is ready to step up and again will he see the court?
Austin - Shows that fire and swagger and wants to assume that role but can he live up to all of the pressure? Coaches son, Chosen one, Duke Star, #1 Recruit, One and Done...all eyes will be on him

Again, I just think opponents traditionally try to bully Duke kids because as Jalen hinted at they think the team is soft and can easily be intimidated and as always I think in the end we will handle this but it's just a concern I have that we just don't have that security blanket so to say. Who will we lean on?

Any thoughts?

jimsumner
04-22-2011, 11:35 AM
The above is exactly what my main concern will be next year. There is no question that we will have tons of talent like every other year but the main thing that concerns me is who will bring that FIRE to the floor that Nolan and Kyle brought night in and out. Who will punch the other team back when we constantly take every teams best punch during games? The scary thing to me and this may not be totally accurate is that the only player that comes right to mind that has that type of swagger, confidence, and fire is Austin Rivers. But he'll only be a freshman! Can he handle that pressure?


Any thoughts?

There are different ways to be an effective leader. I'll give you an example. His teammates have told me that Jim Spanarkel was one of the best leaders imaginable and he hardly ever opened his mouth. Led by example unless it was absolutely necessary for something to be said. Then, like the old ads, when he spoke, everyone listened.

DevilWearsPrada
04-22-2011, 11:44 AM
The above is exactly what my main concern will be next year. There is no question that we will have tons of talent like every other year but the main thing that concerns me is who will bring that FIRE to the floor that Nolan and Kyle brought night in and out. Who will punch the other team back when we constantly take every teams best punch during games? The scary thing to me and this may not be totally accurate is that the only player that comes right to mind that has that type of swagger, confidence, and fire is Austin Rivers. But he'll only be a freshman! Can he handle that pressure?

Don't get me wrong I believe all our guys are ubber competitive I mean thats the only way you even get to the D-1 level is having that desire but sometimes when you're at Duke, being competitive is not enough to win games. You have to absolutely hate to lose and I think most of you can relate. Who is going to silence all the hostile environments like Maryland, V-Tech, UNC? Who is going to punch the St.John's and Arizona's back? Who is going to be the guy that when he is on the floor every body is calm because he has things under control?!! I mean how I see it (and again this may not be accurate):

Tyler T - a nice mild mannered kid, did well at Maryland last year but really wasn't asked to do much.
Seth - has shown potential to lead in games against UNC but others sometimes faded.
Andre - Not sure where his head will be sometimes but if he improves I could see a confidence boost.
Mason - Absolutely shows fire but not sure if he's the type to lead
Miles - Don't really think a leader is in his nature but he is the oldest
Josh H - Like Tyler T seems to be a mild mannered kid but didnt really get to see a lot of him on the court.
Quinn - Will play with a chip on his shoulder but we aren't even sure he'll see the court
Murphy - From what I've seen he doesn't seem like the in your face firey type.
Kelly - fundamental and consistent is his game..again doesnt strike me as the firey leader type.
Gbinje - from what I've heard from others he's more of a silent killer
Marshall - Fun and athletic but not sure his attitude is ready to step up and again will he see the court?
Austin - Shows that fire and swagger and wants to assume that role but can he live up to all of the pressure? Coaches son, Chosen one, Duke Star, #1 Recruit, One and Done...all eyes will be on him

Again, I just think opponents traditionally try to bully Duke kids because as Jalen hinted at they think the team is soft and can easily be intimidated and as always I think in the end we will handle this but it's just a concern I have that we just don't have that security blanket so to say. Who will we lean on?

Any thoughts?

YOU Said it! I agree with your comments, for the most part. I don't have enough knowledge on the new recruits, other than Austin! Austin has a swagger and has Game! Plus, he is Doc's son.

Lost our Leaders and scorers with Nolan, Kyle and Kyrie. Those 3 had leadership, swagger and Winning Mentality.

I hope that Summer practice and camps, will bring leadership and more game! I am thinking that Mason and Ryan will be named Captains. And Miles, because he is a Senior. And with the exit of Nolan and Kyrie, there is a spot for Seth to shine, and show his leadership skills. He knows how to take over a game!

I am not going to ponder on who or whom is named Captain or Co-Captains. I will let Coach K (The Captain) do that!

I think Austin will be a born Leader and very vocal, from the beginning. He WANTS to win! He is very competitive. And it has "that Look" in his eyes. He's hungry for the wins. Nolan, Kyle and Kyrie had that Look!


I am hoping that Zoubs can chanel some of his aggressiveness and leadership skills over to MP1, MP2 and Ryan!

Love your comments! Just so happy the team gets to travel to China and Dubai and have that international experience! Those Kids live like "Rock Stars."! They deserve it, because they work so hard! Great Exposure to the "DUKE" brand.

weezie
04-22-2011, 12:32 PM
...I just think opponents traditionally try to bully Duke kids because as Jalen hinted at they think the team is soft and can easily be intimidated....

Jalen has been thoroughly discredited here as any kind of an expert on Duke Basketball.

Duke players don't get bullied. Anybody other team tries that and they're the ones who end up looking stupid. We may lose, sometimes badly, but we never get bullied. K doesn't recruit guys who break under pressure.

DeBlueDevil
04-22-2011, 12:45 PM
Jalen has been thoroughly discredited here as any kind of an expert on Duke Basketball.

Duke players don't get bullied. Anybody other team tries that and they're the ones who end up looking stupid. We may lose, sometimes badly, but we never get bullied. K doesn't recruit guys who break under pressure.

I figured someone would read ALL of that other stuff and from all of that pull out Jalen's comment. My only point there was to point out that other teams always give us there best shot and at a point some also try to intimidate or bully us because of that mindset. It doesn't take an expert to see that the reality is a lot of people feel that way. Which is their preference just as we are fans of duke is our preference and I totally agree that they are the ones that look stupid and for good reason.

But, my question was just who is going to be the leader or the one who is never intimidated. I would like to think Duke is always perfect and never timid but lets be honest there's usually a time or two a season where they look completely overwhelmed. Its times like those where I think our lack of leadership may show next year. Unless someone steps up. I don't want my comments to focus on a negative but I just wanted to ask whom people thought would be the guy to put us on his back and be the leader.

weezie
04-22-2011, 04:59 PM
Well go figure! Defining each player by what we think we see from the stands is kind of a parlor game.

Sorry to rain on your parade.

Greg_Newton
04-22-2011, 05:15 PM
But, my question was just who is going to be the leader or the one who is never intimidated. I would like to think Duke is always perfect and never timid but lets be honest there's usually a time or two a season where they look completely overwhelmed. Its times like those where I think our lack of leadership may show next year. Unless someone steps up. I don't want my comments to focus on a negative but I just wanted to ask whom people thought would be the guy to put us on his back and be the leader.

I think, in a lot of ways, that guy was Mason this past year. He wasn't a go-to scorer by any means, but he was the guy most likely to physically set the tone in a lot of games. His issue is one of consistency though - some games it was obvious he set out to own the paint and wasn't going to take no for an answer, and others he would just kind of float around. He's the one guy that will never be physically overmatched, though.

Seth is the other guy that I like in this role. Despite being the smallest guy on the team, I swear he got more 50/50 balls than the rest of the team combined - he was great at sticking his nose in the middle of the fray and coming out with the ball.

Ryan was another guy who made big plays at opportune times, and I can see Austin growing into this role as well, if he can learn to channel his temper/frustration in an effective way. I think we'll be fine.

ACCBBallFan
04-22-2011, 08:08 PM
Yet another parallel of next year's Duke team to last year's UNC team, loads of talent but only one senior, no obvious candidate for captain, a #1 (or #2) rated HS in-coming frosh plus a highly rated true PG , a team who will have some growing pains but be a force to reckoned with at end of season, with their rival pre-season #1.

Duke does have a few more candidates to play PG (actually more quantity at every position) and more than 3 bigs with Josh and Alex more likely to be willing to play PF than Barnes or Bullock, so no need for a Justin Watts emergency fill in. I doubt anyone will leave during the season.

darjum
04-23-2011, 02:19 AM
Yet another parallel of next year's Duke team to last year's UNC team

Yes, I've been thinking about this a bit too. The parallels are clearly there. UNC had very limited depth in the front court, but had some really skilled players...next year Duke has a bit more depth in the front court, but only really 2-3 players I envision the coaching staff relying on (MP2, R.Kelly & MP3). I do however believe MP2 and R.Kelly will be very good, much in the same way T.Zeller stepped up and was consistent last year for UNC.

UNC had questions at PG last year, L.Drew was the incumbent, K.Marshall was the back-up. Duke has two options at PG, Cook and Thornton, albeit I'm not sure either will start, but at least Duke has options and possibly like K.Marshall did mid season one of the two (or possibly Curry or Rivers) will assume control of the offense.

UNC was loaded with talented wings last year, even before Will Graves (Jr) was kicked off the team, D.Strickland (So), Leslie McDonald (So), Reggie Bullock (Fr), Harrison Barnes (Fr). But they were inexperienced at that position and to begin the season it showed...sounds familiar...Andre Dawkins (Jr), Austin Rivers (Fr), Michael Gbinije (Fr), Alex Murphy (Fr). But by the end of the year UNC's wings had caught up to their big men in terms of production, leading to a late season surge.

Why I believe Duke may not struggle as badly as UNC did early last year is that Coach K is the master of covering up player deficiencies to ensure the job still gets done. But obviously that's just my biased opinion;)

But to look at the topic of the thread a captain (leader) needs to step up and take control. As stated by Greg Newton, MP2 has been and can be the leader on defense, he just needs to become more consistent. Offensively Duke needs someone to assume control, I'm not sure that person has to be the leading scorer like Nolan was last year, but someone who gets others shots and plays the tempo Duke wants to play. I hope it's Rivers, but his gunner mentality may not work as a freshman to facilitate a leader, but we sure will need his scoring ability.

NYBri
04-23-2011, 09:35 AM
Well go figure! Defining each player by what we think we see from the stands is kind of a parlor game.

Sorry to rain on your parade.

This entire board is a parlor game in that the coach and team will make all decisions about line-ups, level of play and leadership decisions. We are all just chatting about something we love. That doesn't take away from the fun of being here. So there's no parade to rain on.

darjum
04-23-2011, 09:47 AM
This entire board is a parlor game in that the coach and team will make all decisions about line-ups, level of play and leadership decisions. We are all just chatting about something we love. That doesn't take away from the fun of being here. So there's no parade to rain on.

Well said, thank you :D

Devilsfan
04-23-2011, 12:35 PM
Sounds like this thread suggests that there is no obvious combo (vocal and by example) leader for next year's team. If that's the case then next year would have been perfect for the "ONE" theme. We'll all find out soon enough so all of this threads posters will just have to wait and see what the coaches think of their team and its leaders.

Fish80
04-23-2011, 01:00 PM
Ty-ler! Ty-ler! Ty-ler!

Natural leader, tough as nails, starts at point.

watzone
06-06-2011, 12:34 PM
One of the hot subjects in the off season has been who will be Duke Basketball captains or captain for the coming season. I have been discussing this a lot @BDN and wanted to see how other Duke fans feel. In our poll the top three in order are Seth Curry, Miles Plumlee and Ryan Kelly. Your thoughts?

I made sure I asked Coach K about the matter and you can see his response in the video in this article posted today. http://bluedevilnation.net/2011/06/monday-musings-coach-k-on-captains-hoops-football-recruiting/

ScreechTDX1847
06-06-2011, 01:06 PM
Haveing absolutely zero knowledge about what these guys are like off the court and in the locker room...the heir apparent seems to me to be Seth and/or Mason and/or Miles. I could see Ryan getting in there possibly.

ThePublisher
06-06-2011, 01:29 PM
I think the nod will go to Curry. He really showed some flashes last year and will probably be running the team this year, at least to start.

Wish I could go to China.... Stupid work...

DevilWearsPrada
06-06-2011, 01:31 PM
Thanks to Mark for posting that thread. I see Miles and Seth as captains for the upcoming season. And Ryan or Mason as a 3rd choice. All are worthy, and deserving.

Any more news, come out of the K Academy last week?

duke5021
06-06-2011, 01:46 PM
I think Kelly is going to get a look too at the captain spot. I think he is a good extension of the coach and has a very high BB IQ.

Thanks for the interview Watzone

CharlestonDevil
06-06-2011, 01:50 PM
During this past preseason I remember someone asking Coach K how he thought Seth would integrate in to the team after having sat out the previous season. His comments were something to the effect of "He may not have played in a game but Seth was already a leader."

Definitely Seth. Probably Miles. I could see Ryan but doubt it will happen this year.

Lord Ash
06-06-2011, 03:57 PM
Interesting that there won't be a captain for China... guess K will be the "captain" during that time.

Thanks for the interview, Wat... although as a piece of constructive input, you might want to keep all of K's face in screen the whole time... kept losing his chin:)

Newton_14
08-25-2011, 10:12 PM
Interesting that there won't be a captain for China... guess K will be the "captain" during that time.

Thanks for the interview, Wat... although as a piece of constructive input, you might want to keep all of K's face in screen the whole time... kept losing his chin:)

Well, did a Captain emerge in China? I have a few candidates in mind, but I still did not see anyone take charge during stoppages of play, pulling the guys into the huddle and barking instructions. Disappointing actually. I was hoping to see someone step up.

If you put a gun to my head right now I would go with Kelly and Seth. The problem is both of those guys are quiet. Andre would be great as he has the fire in his belly, but he would have to channel that fire into positive action and use it to inspire his teammates and command their respect. In a way, I think being a captain could possibly benefit Andre in his own game and help him mature.

What do you guys and gals think? Would love to hear from others and get your thoughts on this. Anything in China/Dubai jump out at anyone concerning who the captain/captains should be?

Bob Green
08-25-2011, 10:33 PM
Well, did a Captain emerge in China?

Andre would be great as he has the fire in his belly, but he would have to channel that fire into positive action and use it to inspire his teammates and command their respect. In a way, I think being a captain could possibly benefit Andre in his own game and help him mature.

Prior to reading your post, I would have opined Miles Plumlee, Seth Curry and Ryan Kelly as the leading candidates to be named captain or co-captain. However, I completely agree with your solid observation re Andre Dawkins; therefore, I now declare myself a member of the "Andre Dawkins for Captain" group.

EDIT: Is it time for a poll?

Greg_Newton
08-25-2011, 10:36 PM
Agree with Andre and Seth, and I actually don't think either are particularly quiet. If you look at them on the court, at least, they're almost always barking at someone. I do think Ryan in particular seems to have developed a confident, well-spoken manner about him recently, though... I think Seth is more the never-rattled, lead-by-example kind of guy, a la Jon Scheyer.

I'm just not sure Miles quite has the confidence to step into that role. As strong and fiery as he can be, if he gets out of rhythm or screws up a couple plays, it's almost like he goes into a panicky kind of mode.

OldSchool
08-25-2011, 10:45 PM
I think we need Miles to step up and be a captain if we are going to reach our potential this year. We neeed Miles to be a rock, an anchor and a leader in the middle on defense and hold the other guys responsible. If your biggest and strongest and toughest guy can be that role, then all the better.

Miles & Seth as co-captains.

MCFinARL
08-26-2011, 09:51 AM
Well, did a Captain emerge in China? I have a few candidates in mind, but I still did not see anyone take charge during stoppages of play, pulling the guys into the huddle and barking instructions. Disappointing actually. I was hoping to see someone step up.

If you put a gun to my head right now I would go with Kelly and Seth. The problem is both of those guys are quiet. Andre would be great as he has the fire in his belly, but he would have to channel that fire into positive action and use it to inspire his teammates and command their respect. In a way, I think being a captain could possibly benefit Andre in his own game and help him mature.

What do you guys and gals think? Would love to hear from others and get your thoughts on this. Anything in China/Dubai jump out at anyone concerning who the captain/captains should be?

Some of us were saying this on this thread in April (Weezie and I, and maybe others), and I still think it's true. I would love to see Andre as a captain. He could be balanced by a co-captain who is perceived as already steadier/more mature--Ryan or maybe Seth (though Seth last year did have occasional games of frustration and struggling).

I also see Miles as a legit captain candidate, based on energy and willingness to do whatever is needed (go for loose balls, etc.), though I understand why many think he is not the guy.

In the end I'm not sure the China trip did a lot to change the debate here, other than demonstrate that all the potential candidates seem to be progressing appropriately in their individual games.

SilkyJ
08-26-2011, 10:00 AM
I don't have a strong opinion on this b/c as several people have pointed out, no one is really emerging.

I'll say this though, Seth seems like a natural option b/c he's the starting PG, which usually means coach on the floor...but I've noticed him, and to a degree Andre, displaying poor body language too often. Dre is usually pretty cool and calm, but if he gets yanked for a bad play he has a tendency to pout. At one point he was arguing with K on the bench during the 3rd(?) China game. Seth also has a tendency to get frustrated and display poor body language if he misses a couple shots or makes a bad decision or two. You can't have that kinda stuff from your captains.

I'm not saying they do it all the time, its just something I've noticed and it makes me think they aren't ready. Miles and Ryan seem the most ready, but without knowing them as people or the chemistry of the lockeroom, I don't know if they are vocal enough.

CDu
08-26-2011, 10:13 AM
I don't have a strong opinion on this b/c as several people have pointed out, no one is really emerging.

I'll say this though, Seth seems like a natural option b/c he's the starting PG, which usually means coach on the floor...but I've noticed him, and to a degree Andre, displaying poor body language too often. Dre is usually pretty cool and calm, but if he gets yanked for a bad play he has a tendency to pout. At one point he was arguing with K on the bench during the 3rd(?) China game. Seth also has a tendency to get frustrated and display poor body language if he misses a couple shots or makes a bad decision or two. You can't have that kinda stuff from your captains.

I'm not saying they do it all the time, its just something I've noticed and it makes me think they aren't ready. Miles and Ryan seem the most ready, but without knowing them as people or the chemistry of the lockeroom, I don't know if they are vocal enough.

I'd say that all three of our starting guard/wings have a tendency toward the poor body language when things aren't going smoothly (though Rivers is obviously not a real candidate for captain given that he's a freshman). Not that Curry or Dawkins couldn't make a good captain, but those are very uncaptainlike habits. It's not something you'd see out of Smith, Scheyer, Battier, etc.

Bluealum
08-26-2011, 10:35 AM
I'd say that all three of our starting guard/wings have a tendency toward the poor body language when things aren't going smoothly (though Rivers is obviously not a real candidate for captain given that he's a freshman). Not that Curry or Dawkins couldn't make a good captain, but those are very uncaptainlike habits. It's not something you'd see out of Smith, Scheyer, Battier, etc.

I agree with this. I had not thought of it before and I can't remember it being suggested before SilkyJ, but I think Ryan and Miles are the most deserving. If captaincy is a reward (like playing time) for the work you put in rather than something your given with the hope you'll rise to the opportunity, then I think those two are the best candidates. This of course is without knowing their off court and practice personalities at all.

Ryan works his tail off, has great basketball savvy, never appears to get down even though his role has changed many times, and is looking like he is ready for a breakout. Miles has never really pouted even though he is in the awkward position of following his younger more celebrated brother to his chosen school, and often playing a lesser role than he does. Miles has clearly improved, is physically the most imposing player we have, and he is our lone senior. Both are already leaders by example and could perhaps lead with greater authority if given the mantle.

Can't think of when we didn't have a guard that was captain, and I would never suggest that this combination (w/o Seth) is most likely, but those two would have my vote looking at the few snippets we have had this summer and in the last four games.

SilkyJ
08-26-2011, 10:40 AM
I'd say that all three of our starting guard/wings have a tendency toward the poor body language when things aren't going smoothly (though Rivers is obviously not a real candidate for captain given that he's a freshman). Not that Curry or Dawkins couldn't make a good captain, but those are very uncaptainlike habits. It's not something you'd see out of Smith, Scheyer, Battier, etc.

Yea I didn't even bring up Austin, since he's not a real option. Other than the last game when he played pretty well, he showed lots of poor body language.


This of course is without knowing their off court and practice personalities at all.


All of this is completely speculative without any of us really knowing team chemistry or dynamics...but its fun :)

CDu
08-26-2011, 10:41 AM
I agree with this. I had not thought of it before and I can't remember it being suggested before SilkyJ, but I think Ryan and Miles are the most deserving. If captaincy is a reward (like playing time) for the work you put in rather than something your given with the hope you'll rise to the opportunity, then I think those two are the best candidates. This of course is without knowing their off court and practice personalities at all.

Ryan works his tail off, has great basketball savvy, never appears to get down even though his role has changed many times, and is looking like he is ready for a breakout. Miles has never really pouted even though he is in the awkward position of following his younger more celebrated brother to his chosen school, and often playing a lesser role than he does. Miles has clearly improved, is physically the most imposing player we have, and he is our lone senior. Both are already leaders by example and could perhaps lead with greater authority if given the mantle.

Can't think of when we didn't have a guard that was captain, and I would never suggest that this combination (w/o Seth) is most likely, but those two would have my vote looking at the few snippets we have had this summer and in the last four games.

It depends on whether you consider Nelson and James/Carrawell to be guards or forwards. I believe that Nelson was the only captain as a senior, but I wouldn't have classified him as a guard (he certainly wasn't a primary ballhandler). I think James and Battier were the captains in 2001 and maybe Battier and Carrawell in 2000, and neither were primary ballhandlers (though Carrawell did act as the backup PG in 2000).

I don't think there's anything that mandates the captain be a guard. But I guess I'd be a tad surprised if it isn't Curry and Miles.

Bluealum
08-26-2011, 10:52 AM
It depends on whether you consider Nelson and James/Carrawell to be guards or forwards. I believe that Nelson was the only captain as a senior, but I wouldn't have classified him as a guard (he certainly wasn't a primary ballhandler). I think James and Battier were the captains in 2001 and maybe Battier and Carrawell in 2000, and neither were primary ballhandlers (though Carrawell did act as the backup PG in 2000).

I don't think there's anything that mandates the captain be a guard. But I guess I'd be a tad surprised if it isn't Curry and Miles.

True enough. I was thinking more along the perimeter/interior lines and always thought of James/Carrawell and certainly Nelson as perimeter players. This even though Carawell played center for us, against Timmy Duncan no less, so the whole thing is quite debatable. Regardless, it would be unusual for Duke which has the reputation for a decidedly perimeter orientation, to have a combination of 6'10 and 6'11 co-captains.

I just hope Miles gets the captaincy, I think he deserves it. I believe Ryan will get that opportunity next year regardless.

devildeac
08-26-2011, 12:29 PM
Interesting observations about body language. Perhaps the staff will sit down with potential captains individually and show them short videos of their less than stellar body language like what was done to Hurley sometime shortly after his freshman year. In one of K's books, I remember a passage where he recounted sitting Bobby down (summertime after freshman year?) with several minutes of his petulance on film and then (IIRC) some true highlights of his actions and stressed how important that would be for the team. I think Hurley was pretty reliable, productive and positive after that;). (Yes, even when he ripped Laettner a new one during halftime of the NC game with Michigan in 1992:D.)

SilkyJ
08-26-2011, 12:39 PM
Interesting observations about body language. Perhaps the staff will sit down with potential captains individually and show them short videos of their less than stellar body language like what was done to Hurley sometime shortly after his freshman year. In one of K's books, I remember a passage where he recounted sitting Bobby down (summertime after freshman year?) with several minutes of his petulance on film and then (IIRC) some true highlights of his actions and stressed how important that would be for the team. I think Hurley was pretty reliable, productive and positive after that;). (Yes, even when he ripped Laettner a new one during halftime of the NC game with Michigan in 1992:D.)

I can see the staff doing that, particularly with Curry. I think he could grow into the captaincy quite easily. Let's remember he's a 4th year junior, so I think he can handle the maturity required and could "grow up" more quickly. Let's also not forget Andre is the opposite: an early enrolled junior, so he may need some more time before he's ready.

I also never heard this story about hurley and laettner at halftime...or if I did I have since forgotten it. Care to elaborate, DD? (or anyone else)

devildeac
08-26-2011, 03:30 PM
I can see the staff doing that, particularly with Curry. I think he could grow into the captaincy quite easily. Let's remember he's a 4th year junior, so I think he can handle the maturity required and could "grow up" more quickly. Let's also not forget Andre is the opposite: an early enrolled junior, so he may need some more time before he's ready.

I also never heard this story about hurley and laettner at halftime...or if I did I have since forgotten it. Care to elaborate, DD? (or anyone else)

Glad to oblige. From A Season is a Lifetime:

"Then, with measured aim, he took his forearm and annihilated the blackboard. It came tumbling off its stand. '%h/t!' said Coach K, and then he left the locker room."
...

"The players were left to themselves. Hurley, who had listened to Laettner for three years, now turned the tables. Bobby was rarely a talker; he was a doer, and the players derived their confidence in him from his demeanor rather than his words.

But after Krzyzewski stormed out, Hurley was so fired up, so emotional, that he couldn't hold back. 'We're playing for the national championship. How can we cheat ourselves by playing this way? If we're going to play like this, we might as well stay in the locker room.' He was looking right at Laettner.

Thomas Hill also spoke: 'What do we need to do to win this thing? What are we doing out there? Our turnovers are terrible.' He, too, looked directly at Laettner. "

...

"And Hurley and Hill were taking command."

...


"Duke basketball depended on leadership. Laettner and Davis had taken over last year before the tournament and carried the team to the title. Now, at halftime in the Metrodome in the locker room, the mantle of leadership was being passed again."

I absolutely love that story. Now, I realize that Seth and Andre are not Hurley and may never achieve what he did. The point is leadership and who will be able to be an extension of K in difficult situations during a game this year and subsequent years, too, of course. Will it be our senior? Could it be the 4th year junior with a great basketball family? Or, will it be the ever-improving Mr. Kelly or "young" Andre Dawkins? Or, will we have (a) captain/s and no one will be able to guide this team with their physical and mental actions during the season?

I am really anxious to see how the individuals and team develop during this campaign and can't wait for the 2011-12 MBB session to begin "officially" this fall.

jv001
08-26-2011, 03:39 PM
Interesting observations about body language. Perhaps the staff will sit down with potential captains individually and show them short videos of their less than stellar body language like what was done to Hurley sometime shortly after his freshman year. In one of K's books, I remember a passage where he recounted sitting Bobby down (summertime after freshman year?) with several minutes of his petulance on film and then (IIRC) some true highlights of his actions and stressed how important that would be for the team. I think Hurley was pretty reliable, productive and positive after that;). (Yes, even when he ripped Laettner a new one during halftime of the NC game with Michigan in 1992:D.)

As far as I'm concerned this was one of Coach K's finest coaching moments because imo it helped make Bobby Hurley the finest point guard in Duke history. Sorry Kyrie you needed to stay at least one more year. GoDuke!

SupaDave
08-26-2011, 05:16 PM
I'd say that all three of our starting guard/wings have a tendency toward the poor body language when things aren't going smoothly (though Rivers is obviously not a real candidate for captain given that he's a freshman). Not that Curry or Dawkins couldn't make a good captain, but those are very uncaptainlike habits. It's not something you'd see out of Smith, Scheyer, Battier, etc.

FYI, we've had some captains who were quite demonstrative on the court...

CDu
08-26-2011, 08:50 PM
FYI, we've had some captains who were quite demonstrative on the court...

There's a difference between being demonstrative and having bad body language (i.e., pouting). The latter is less common in a captain.