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Bluedog
04-06-2011, 04:13 PM
http://tarheelblue.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/040611aab.html

Well, they are going to be good next season...Barnes still undecided.

WiJoe
04-06-2011, 04:20 PM
I'm sure prince he who shall not be named (I'm sure if I referred to him as princess harry I'd get suspended), will have his own little self-serving announcement trumpeting the fact he is returning to lead his team to a national title.

:mad:

DukeGirl4ever
04-06-2011, 04:27 PM
Henson really needs to come back and learn a lot about the game. He made a lot of bone-headed plays in two of the last games of the season. The final two plays in the Washington game could have cost them the game, and his inability to play within himself during the UK game kept him in foul trouble and on the bench.

Earlier this year, I really respected Zeller's game. In fact, I do respect his game. I think I have grown tired of the average UNC fan stating that the Duke players flop all the time. If that's the case, Zeller belongs in a Duke uniform. He does the same thing Singler and Kelly did all year long, but to the UNC fans, it's ok when he does it, but when we do it, it's because K teaches our guys to play like pansies. This reason alone has made me cringe every time I watch him play defense.

Bluedog
04-06-2011, 04:41 PM
Zeller coming back concerns me more. He has great post moves and is just a solid overall player. His numbers in the NCAA tournament:

FGs: 9/14, 8/14, 10/19, 9/12
FG Avg: 61%
FTs: 14/19, 7/7, 7/8, 3/3
FT: 84%
Rebounds: 9, 5, 12, 9
RPG: 8.75
Pts: 32, 23, 27, 21
PPG: 25.75

25.75 points, 8.75 rebounds, while shooting 61% from the field and 84% from the charity stripe. Those are dominant numbers. I can't imagine him having a more impressive audition for the NBA then he just had in the NCAA tournament, but I guess the NBA doesn't like his lack of athleticism (although I think he still would have gone first round).

SeattleIrish
04-06-2011, 04:49 PM
I was looking forward to seeing Roy coach without those two; if they left, I don't think it would matter if Barnes came back or not.

Still, as a fan of ACC hoops, it's going to make for some great basketball! UNC will be very good if Barnes returns, and should be good without him. We'll see some very good ball next year.

s.i.

MCFinARL
04-06-2011, 04:51 PM
I was looking forward to seeing Roy coach without those two; if they left, I don't think it would matter if Barnes came back or not.

Still, as a fan of ACC hoops, it's going to make for some great basketball! UNC will be very good if Barnes returns, and should be good without him. We'll see some very good ball next year.

s.i.

Yes, in all honesty, as good as Barnes is, of the three he might be the one UNC would miss the least, given who else is on their team. They're going to be very tough even if he leaves.

moonpie23
04-06-2011, 04:53 PM
well the NIT is long gone in the rearview for the tarholes......

back to sluggin it out with them again........sigh...

weezie
04-06-2011, 04:55 PM
Oh yay.

More interesting to contemplate (not): wonder if Bob McAdoo will come to a hole game in Cameron?

Faison1
04-06-2011, 04:55 PM
Bummer. I will be very surprised if Harrison decides to go pro.

Frankly, with an entire year of practice, and no Larry Drew, these guys are going to be good.

Hopefully our guards will check Marshall as well as Nolan did in the ACC Tourney, and our bigs do something to slow down Henson/Zeller. Harrison is going to be tough to defend as well.

Which leaves us with one clear advantage as of this moment.....shooting guard. Save us, Austin!!!!! :)

ChicagoHeel
04-06-2011, 05:05 PM
Which leaves us with one clear advantage as of this moment.....shooting guard. Save us, Austin!!!!! :)

Of course, we have a five-star recruit (http://scouthoops.scout.com/a.z?s=75&p=8&c=1&nid=3508584) coming into that position too. Even without Barnes, UNC is stacked. If Barnes comes back, it will be hard to find any major weaknesses. It will be a somewhat less experienced version of the 2009 team.

Faison1
04-06-2011, 05:10 PM
Of course, we have a five-star recruit (http://scouthoops.scout.com/a.z?s=75&p=8&c=1&nid=3508584) coming into that position too. Even without Barnes, UNC is stacked. If Barnes comes back, it will be hard to find any major weaknesses. It will be a somewhat less experienced version of the 2009 team.

Should we just give you the trophy now?

Faison1
04-06-2011, 05:12 PM
Of course, we have a five-star recruit (http://scouthoops.scout.com/a.z?s=75&p=8&c=1&nid=3508584) coming into that position too. Even without Barnes, UNC is stacked. If Barnes comes back, it will be hard to find any major weaknesses. It will be a somewhat less experienced version of the 2009 team.

You know, this past year, I kind of liked your team....but that has quickly changed. Now I despise them.

rotogod00
04-06-2011, 05:14 PM
Should we just give you the trophy now?

No, but with Barnes, it'd be hard to argue against them being the top team heading into the season.

ChicagoHeel
04-06-2011, 05:17 PM
Should we just give you the trophy now?

Obviously not. It just means it will be a different year for us- similar to 2009 or this last year for you pre-KI's injury. We will expect to win and win big, carry the burden of expectations, and many of us die-hard fans will be wringing our hands wondering what's wrong any time we lose or win by less than double digits.

roywhite
04-06-2011, 05:18 PM
Oh yay.

More interesting to contemplate (not): wonder if Bob McAdoo will come to a hole game in Cameron?

Bobo (as we called him back in the day) did not have a great visit to Cameron as a player.

Boxscore from Duke--UNC in 1972 (http://goduke.statsgeek.com/basketball-m/games/boxscore.php?gameid=19720122)

1-12 from the field, 3 points, and 4 fouls. If I recall correctly, he looked puzzled.

wilko
04-06-2011, 05:20 PM
Obviously not. It just means it will be a different year for us- similar to 2009 or this last year for you pre-KI's injury. We will expect to win and win big, carry the burden of expectations, and many of us die-hard fans will be wringing our hands wondering what's wrong any time we lose or win by less than double digits.

Its a long season.... injury, bus going off the road, player rebellion ANYTHING can happen.
The the NBA/CBA could drop the 1yr rule and guys may never matriculate that you expect in unis....

J4Kop99
04-06-2011, 05:22 PM
UNC will be one hell of a team next year... with or without Barnes. Whenever you have two go-to guys in the post, you are set. Henson was smart for coming back another year... he needs it.

Sucks to see this on the same day that Kyrie announces he will leave though.

Chicago 1995
04-06-2011, 05:23 PM
Of course, we have a five-star recruit (http://scouthoops.scout.com/a.z?s=75&p=8&c=1&nid=3508584) coming into that position too. Even without Barnes, UNC is stacked. If Barnes comes back, it will be hard to find any major weaknesses. It will be a somewhat less experienced version of the 2009 team.

Defense, anyone?

They'll be rightly ranked in the top 2 or 3 in the country at the beginning of the year next year, but the perimeter D, to me, is a big weakness. Kentucky -- not a picture of offensive genius -- shredded you with good ball movement. Washington did too.

ChicagoHeel
04-06-2011, 05:30 PM
Defense, anyone?

They'll be rightly ranked in the top 2 or 3 in the country at the beginning of the year next year, but the perimeter D, to me, is a big weakness. Kentucky -- not a picture of offensive genius -- shredded you with good ball movement. Washington did too.

Our defense wasn't that bad last year. I think Kenpom actually has our adjusted defense ranked higher than Duke's. Plus, we lost two players (LD II, Bullock) who, whatever else you want to say about them, were an addition in terms of defense on the perimeter. The way we play D does make us susceptible to the three, a constant source of frustration for many a UNC fan, but overall our defense was good this year and should be at least as good next year.

Atlanta Duke
04-06-2011, 05:30 PM
Carolina definitely will be loaded next season and their heaviest preseason favorite to win it all since their 1993-94 team

NYBri
04-06-2011, 05:41 PM
I was hoping he would go and KI would stay.

A man can dream, can't he?

Bojangles4Eva
04-06-2011, 05:47 PM
They will be good, thats for sure, but they will also have weaknesses from their personel (not many ballhandling options, unless their transfer comes through big) and with coaching (when Roy has the manpower to run run run, the defense usually suffers).

If Barnes returns I would have no problem calling them pre-season #1, but if we land Daniels and our guys perform to their potential, we could be right up there with them. Fact is no one knows what can happen in a season, so I'm just taking things one step at a time....All I am concentrating on now is how we perform in China.

kong123
04-06-2011, 05:52 PM
All three had there meeting with coach, obviously Henson and Z are staying,, OK here is the deal with Harrison,, Barnes is projected to go number 3-9 in the draft could even go 10th or higher, could go 3rd if you get my drift,, coach's info was just that, a projection. To make a long story short Harrison is 90% chance to comeback another year. This waiting period by Harrison is just to make sure nothing funny happens with the other prospects, the difference in 3rd pick and 10th or more pick is millions of dollars in the long run. Harrison pretty much told coach that he just wanted to make SURE what the status of other draft prospects are.

J4Kop99
04-06-2011, 05:54 PM
All three had there meeting with coach, obviously Henson and Z are staying,, OK here is the deal with Harrison,, Barnes is projected to go number 3-9 in the draft could even go 10th or higher, could go 3rd if you get my drift,, coach's info was just that, a projection. To make a long story short Harrison is 90% chance to comeback another year. This waiting period by Harrison is just to make sure nothing funny happens with the other prospects, the difference in 3rd pick and 10th or more pick is millions of dollars in the long run. Harrison pretty much told coach that he just wanted to make SURE what the status of other draft prospects are.

How could anyone possibly project him to go higher than 5, let alone 9 or 10? That is an absolute joke.

However, if he does return, I will respect the hell out of him.

DevilWearsPrada
04-06-2011, 05:54 PM
I remember the days when this wouldnt even be a topic of discussion. Kids stayed in school and graduated. Thats what College students, do. 4 or so years (with summer sessions) and graduate.

Well, its good for all the kids to stay in college. It doesnt matter where they are attending. Good for John Henson and Tyler Zeller to remain at Unc and go to class, and be closer to graduation. That says so much. Because Kyle and Nolan stayed!

Unc will be loaded and locked either way. Ole Roy has a good team of Mickey D's and solid players and good recruits coming in (if you watched the East West Game last week).

I am sad that Kyrie announces he is entering the NBA draft (which I knew he would).

And the rivilary inside me wishes Henson, Zeller and Barnes would all leave this year.

But the academic side of me, says that kids should stay in school, and enjoy those years of interacting with their peers, and working on their skill set and develop that and maturity and leadership. (Like the Butler kids).

Tyler Zeller and John Henson will be stronger and more mature in their play next year. WE all know that. I know all the little Tarholes are very very happy.


THE Duke Unc rivilary lives on. Wish all the kids stayed for 4 years (or at least 3 like Jason Williams and graduate).


RECRUIT RECRUIT and RELOAD for DUKE!

davekay1971
04-06-2011, 05:56 PM
Come on back, Henson and The Black Falcon, so Duke can spank your rears again in the ACC Championship game and send you off to the NBA with your years at Chapel Hill filled with Chi O formals and no championships.

roywhite
04-06-2011, 06:13 PM
Come on back, Henson and The Black Falcon, so Duke can spank your rears again in the ACC Championship game and send you off to the NBA with your years at Chapel Hill filled with Chi O formals and no championships.

Perhaps we can learn from this Wiki entry on the Black Falcon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Falcon)


Its relationships are enigmatic, like with many falcons....It is well known as a pirate of other species......Black Falcons are nomadic over most of their range.......Black Falcons do not aggressively defend their nests from predators

Hmmm....enigmatic, likes to take shots rather than share.....nomadic.....not much on defense

Probably returns to the light blue nest, but may take flight.

ncexnyc
04-06-2011, 06:53 PM
I'm not surprised these two kids returned. Zeller is into his school work as much as his basketball and Henson obviously listened to what people had to say about his game and how it would translate at the next level.

I don't worry about either kid as Miles, Mason, and Ryan match-up well with them. It's the other character I'm worried about as I'm not sure we have anyone who can lock him down like Kyle was able to this past season.

cptnflash
04-06-2011, 07:10 PM
http://tarheelblue.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/040611aab.html

Well, they are going to be good next season...Barnes still undecided.

If Barnes comes back, UNC will be preseason #1. And deservedly so. They will be scary good.

roywhite
04-06-2011, 07:21 PM
If Barnes comes back, UNC will be preseason #1. And deservedly so. They will be scary good.

Probably preseason #1 and good, but won't scare the Devils.

GLTBD
04-06-2011, 07:23 PM
If Barnes comes back, UNC will be preseason #1. And deservedly so. They will be scary good.

Good let them have the target on their backs, less pressure on us.

oldnavy
04-06-2011, 07:26 PM
Probably preseason #1 and good, but won't scare the Devils.

Who was preseason number one this past year??? Oh yea, it was us.... lots of things can happen in a year as we all know.

Glad Henson and Zeller and hopefully Barnes are coming back. It is good for college basketball and will make our beating them that much tougher for the heel nation to take!!

thewoosh31
04-06-2011, 07:31 PM
Good let them have the target on their backs, less pressure on us.

exactly.

and also, let's not forget that at the start of this past season, we were the overwhelming favorite and then we lost our star player for pretty much the entire season. there's no way to know what injury bug will hit the heels next year. a misplaced toe, ankle, arm, elbow, and etc. could throw a wrench into their season just like it did to ours. rankings mean NOTHING to me more than ever especially after this year's tourney.

Faison1
04-06-2011, 08:04 PM
Obviously not. It just means it will be a different year for us- similar to 2009 or this last year for you pre-KI's injury. We will expect to win and win big, carry the burden of expectations, and many of us die-hard fans will be wringing our hands wondering what's wrong any time we lose or win by less than double digits.

Just to be clear, ChiHeel, I have nothing against you. I saw your post 30 seconds before the news on Kyrie, and therefore felt the need to lash out a bit.

UNC is going to be very good next year. Hopefully, Duke really embraces the concept of 'D'. If they do, the Plumlees actually match up well, assuming they can finally grasp the concept of good disciplined defense (big assumption).

And I like our guards against you. The one current weakness is SF, but that may or may not be addressed with the newcomers.

OZ
04-06-2011, 08:29 PM
First, there is no person on the planet that detest the heels more than I. Nothing would have pleased me more than the entire team going pro.

Now, having said that, perhaps there is a movement afoot here which we might be overlooking. With the three heels and Jared Sullinger returning, maybe there is a change in the climate whereby, the pro scene is becoming less glamorous as compared to "once-in-a-lifetime-college-experience." All four of these guys, in my opinion have made good choices.

We always hear.. "you can always get an education." Well, while that may be true, you CANNOT ALWAYS have "college life." What a positive endorsement these young men have made for the college life/program. Perhaps, their decision will awaken others as to the importance of these four years and will cause others to take a deeper look before giving them up.

Admittedly, I was never tempted to trade my Duke experience for millions; but, as I now look back over my time there... I am not sure what price I would put on it. I am not sure that I would take anything for it.

uh_no
04-06-2011, 08:35 PM
Perhaps, their decision will awaken others as to the importance of these four years and will cause others to take a deeper look before giving them up.


Wow, could you have backhanded kyrie across the face any harder?

I find this comment extremely distasteful in the light of kyrie leaving, but to characterize someone leaving school as 'giving up' is just wrong. It also insinuates that kids who do leave early somehow don't understand or haven't considered the pros of staying. That is a very demeaning attitude to take, especially considering the maturity that some of these kids (especially kyrie) show.

weezie
04-06-2011, 08:42 PM
Whoa! He didn't say Kyrie just gave up!
It was a comment on missing the full college experience. Which is what Kyrie has chosen to do, for fine reasons but still he is leaving college. I don't think it was a back-handed slap, come on!
All the posters here have been excruciatingly careful not to knock KI. We all wish him luck but it's ok to voice regret from your own standpoint.

Bojangles4Eva
04-06-2011, 09:17 PM
Whoa! He didn't say Kyrie just gave up!
It was a comment on missing the full college experience. Which is what Kyrie has chosen to do, for fine reasons but still he is leaving college. I don't think it was a back-handed slap, come on!
All the posters here have been excruciatingly careful not to knock KI. We all wish him luck but it's ok to voice regret from your own standpoint.

I agree with this, fans should have the right to discuss how they are displeased with the general situation, so long as they are not criticising Kyrie personally. So far posters here have been in support of Kyrie, and not made any personal attacks on him, which says something about the quality of this board.

jipops
04-06-2011, 09:35 PM
All three had there meeting with coach, obviously Henson and Z are staying,, OK here is the deal with Harrison,, Barnes is projected to go number 3-9 in the draft could even go 10th or higher, could go 3rd if you get my drift,, coach's info was just that, a projection. To make a long story short Harrison is 90% chance to comeback another year. This waiting period by Harrison is just to make sure nothing funny happens with the other prospects, the difference in 3rd pick and 10th or more pick is millions of dollars in the long run. Harrison pretty much told coach that he just wanted to make SURE what the status of other draft prospects are.

I have zero doubts that Barnes will be back in a UNC uni, just as I had zero doubts that Kryie would be gone.

There really hasn't been a truly great college team in the past couple years. Next season there will be. The heels will be as close to unbeatable as one can be. The level of talent and depth is just staggering. I'm bracing myself for the heels getting another natty, it's feels inevitable. The last time there was a team with this level of collective talent was 2009.

OZ
04-06-2011, 09:51 PM
Wow, could you have backhanded kyrie across the face any harder?

I find this comment extremely distasteful in the light of kyrie leaving, but to characterize someone leaving school as 'giving up' is just wrong. It also insinuates that kids who do leave early somehow don't understand or haven't considered the pros of staying. That is a very demeaning attitude to take, especially considering the maturity that some of these kids (especially kyrie) show.

What?

My point has nothing to do with Kyrie. He did what he wanted to do. That's fine. My guess is he didn't wait until this week to begin the evaluation of his decision. I am sure there were a number of factors that went into it. It would seem that he considered everything.

However, my point is hopefully all of these young men will take an equally thorough look at what college life brings to each individual. There are a number of folks who think it is foolish to give up $millions to stay. Is that a "slap in the face" of those who choose to remain in school? Hopefully, others will "understand" that, if it is their decision to stay, it is o.k. to stay!

I recall Laettner giving an interview after his junior year. He was asked by a reporter why he didn't go pro while he was at the top of his game. His reply was something along the line of..."I love my friends here (pointing to Brain Davis, who was sitting beside him) and the life I have." Was that a slap in the face of those who left early?

Roy said that Zeller and Henson stayed because of their desire to embace their college life. Is Roy saying, that if Barnes leaves, he didn't like college? No! But, hopefully (and thankfully, it seems) he is taking a close look at all his options. I am just not so sure that all these young people do that.

Finally, I NEVER suggested that anyone was "giving up!" Geeeeez!
I plainly stated that when you go pro you do "give up" your college life, which, in my opinion is invaluable. You will never get that back. That is MY opinion and I don't think to have a different opinion on this subject can be interpreted as an indictment on anyone!

freedevil
04-06-2011, 09:52 PM
I can only imagine if a Duke player was projected to go between 3-9 -- and was seriously considering a return to school -- how UNC fans would be accusing K of "forcing" or "coercing" this player to stay in college...

But when a UNC player, who is a lock for the lottery, thinks about coming back, there is somehow independent and honorable logic to it...

I wish all kids stayed in school 3-4 years, and I certainly don't begrudge those who leave early -- I'm just continually amazed by the hypocrisy.

dukelifer
04-06-2011, 10:27 PM
I have zero doubts that Barnes will be back in a UNC uni, just as I had zero doubts that Kryie would be gone.

There really hasn't been a truly great college team in the past couple years. Next season there will be. The heels will be as close to unbeatable as one can be. The level of talent and depth is just staggering. I'm bracing myself for the heels getting another natty, it's feels inevitable. The last time there was a team with this level of collective talent was 2009.

This UNC team could be dominant but with no real depth at point- they could be fragile at the end of the season- will be interesting to see how they handle the expectations.

kong123
04-07-2011, 06:50 AM
i'm just continually amazed by the hypocrisy.

me too!!!!

dukelion
04-07-2011, 07:19 AM
I have zero doubts that Barnes will be back in a UNC uni, just as I had zero doubts that Kryie would be gone.

There really hasn't been a truly great college team in the past couple years. Next season there will be. The heels will be as close to unbeatable as one can be. The level of talent and depth is just staggering. I'm bracing myself for the heels getting another natty, it's feels inevitable. The last time there was a team with this level of collective talent was 2009.

McAdoo is their only reserve big and he"s not exactly a banger...more of 3/4 combo guy and a freshman.

There still really isn't a backup point-guard and of their starting 5 Barnes is still their best 3pt shooter at 34%.

They'll be good\great but I don't think their backcourt is that special.

UrinalCake
04-07-2011, 07:36 AM
[Henson's] inability to play within himself during the UK game kept him in foul trouble and on the bench.

Well in his defense, there's not a lot of room in there.


The the NBA/CBA could drop the 1yr rule and guys may never matriculate that you expect in unis....

Could that actually happen? It would require that a deal be worked out before the draft, which seems unlikely. Unless it happens after the draft and then all the high school graduates suddenly become undrafted free agents; that would be weird. Besides, we would almost definitely lose Rivers in this bizzarre scenario, so I think we'd be hurt way worse than UNC.

I'm not surprised Zeller is staying four years. As solid as he is at the college level, I'm not sure about his NBA potential. He's like a very poor man's Hansbrough - plays smart and below the rim, but doesn't have the athleticism for the NBA. I could be wrong. Henson probably would have been drafted in the late first round based on potential, but he's not hurting his stock by staying. Barnes would be gambling somewhat by staying. He could vault into becoming the top pick overall, or he could be exposed by another poor shooting year and slip.

hudlow
04-07-2011, 07:52 AM
Tell them to bring their "A" game when they come to play Duke.

GO DUKE!!!

weezie
04-07-2011, 07:59 AM
me too!!!!

You are amazed at the hypocrisy of the hole mentality?
Yah... me three. There's no end to it! :)

gw67
04-07-2011, 08:03 AM
Zeller coming back concerns me more. He has great post moves and is just a solid overall player. His numbers in the NCAA tournament:

FGs: 9/14, 8/14, 10/19, 9/12
FG Avg: 61%
FTs: 14/19, 7/7, 7/8, 3/3
FT: 84%
Rebounds: 9, 5, 12, 9
RPG: 8.75
Pts: 32, 23, 27, 21
PPG: 25.75

25.75 points, 8.75 rebounds, while shooting 61% from the field and 84% from the charity stripe. Those are dominant numbers. I can't imagine him having a more impressive audition for the NBA then he just had in the NCAA tournament, but I guess the NBA doesn't like his lack of athleticism (although I think he still would have gone first round).

In his first full year, Zeller played well and got better as the year went on. As you point out, he is an outstanding offensive player and a decent rebounder. I don't understand your comment about athleticism. He is one of the fastest big men in college, has good hands and jumps as well as most big men. I have no idea what the scouts for the 24-second look for but I suspect that it is primarily his lack of strength and agressiveness in the post that hurt his NBA propects. These are areas that can be improved upon by staying an extra year.

It certainly appears that Duke and UNC will again be atop the ACC next year.

gw67

MChambers
04-07-2011, 08:46 AM
All three had there meeting with coach, obviously Henson and Z are staying,, OK here is the deal with Harrison,, Barnes is projected to go number 3-9 in the draft could even go 10th or higher, could go 3rd if you get my drift,, coach's info was just that, a projection. To make a long story short Harrison is 90% chance to comeback another year. This waiting period by Harrison is just to make sure nothing funny happens with the other prospects, the difference in 3rd pick and 10th or more pick is millions of dollars in the long run. Harrison pretty much told coach that he just wanted to make SURE what the status of other draft prospects are.

I take it from this that Barnes would go if he was sure of being a top 3 pick (like Irving is), but it's not likely he'd go that high. Not surprising that this is his thinking, given his approach to his career. I'd think the risk of going 5 or lower keeps him out of the draft.

Class of '94
04-07-2011, 12:10 PM
No offense anyone; but for posters who think UNC will be this great and dominant team that should be scary good, unbeatable and win by double digits in every game, please take a minute to really look at this upcoming team. Even with Barnes and the 2 incoming freshman, this team will not be another 2009 UNC team. That team had 2 dominant offensive players with a speedy Lawson on the perimeter as PG and Tyler H. as PF, with proven shooters like Ellington and Green to surround those 2. Teams couldn't matchup to both those players, and I thought Lawson was the key cog in all of that. This upcoming UNC team does not have 2 players of that caliber on the perimeter and interior, respectively, to put pressure offensively on teams like the 2009 team did. Moreover, the 2009 UNC team was the continuing development of the 2008 team, an already dominant team. The 2011 UNC team was never a dominant team. And to their credit, they won a lot of close games; but many of those game could've easily gone the other way; and their season (record-wise) would not have been that great. To say that this team that was hardly dominant will become a "great", unbeatable and dominant team next year is a huge leap of faith. I actually think Kansas or OSU with Sullinger and their sophmore PG will more likely be the preseason #1 team with UNC in the top 4-5. But don't get me wrong, UNC will have as good a chance as anyone to win the NC; I just don't think it will be a done deal like some may think.

Duvall
04-07-2011, 12:14 PM
I actually think Kansas or OSU with Sullinger and their sophmore PG will more likely be the preseason #1 team with UNC in the top 4-5. But don't get me wrong, UNC will have as good a chance as anyone to win the NC; I just don't think it will be a done deal like some may think.

Kansas? Do you mean Kentucky?

Class of '94
04-07-2011, 12:25 PM
Kansas? Do you mean Kentucky?

You're right.....I meant Kentucky. Had Kansas for some reason on the brain. While Kentucky could be young at PG, they should still have a nice mix of returning players to combine with the super freshman class they're bringing in to be a real force next year. And speaking of Kansas, if one or both of the twins as well as Selby decide to stay, I think they will be right up there as well in terms of talent. Bottom line, I don't think UNC or anyone else will be a sure bet next year.

Bluedog
04-07-2011, 12:33 PM
I don't understand your comment about athleticism. He is one of the fastest big men in college, has good hands and jumps as well as most big men. I have no idea what the scouts for the 24-second look for but I suspect that it is primarily his lack of strength and agressiveness in the post that hurt his NBA propects. These are areas that can be improved upon by staying an extra year.

Sorry, you are right that the NBA's primary concern with Zeller appears to be strength. I personally think he's a very solid college athlete, but usually the knock the NBA gives on guys like that are "limited upside due to lack of athleticism" so I guess I just assumed it. Although NBA scouts aren't super impressed with his athleticism either apparently:

"While not a top-shelf athlete, he runs the floor well and is able to elevate to finish and compete on the glass. His lack of physical strength is still his biggest weakness from a physical standpoint and area where he should really focus. It's hard to imagine him playing center in the NBA with his frame right now, but if he's able to add some strength, that may be where his game is best suited."
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Tyler-Zeller-5154/playerblog/#ixzz1Ir6eJVkZ

Can you imagine Mason if he developed some Zeller post moves? I'd like to see that...

kong123
04-07-2011, 12:56 PM
No offense anyone; but for posters who think UNC will be this great and dominant team that should be scary good, unbeatable and win by double digits in every game, please take a minute to really look at this upcoming team. Even with Barnes and the 2 incoming freshman, this team will not be another 2009 UNC team. That team had 2 dominant offensive players with a speedy Lawson on the perimeter as PG and Tyler H. as PF, with proven shooters like Ellington and Green to surround those 2. Teams couldn't matchup to both those players, and I thought Lawson was the key cog in all of that. This upcoming UNC team does not have 2 players of that caliber on the perimeter and interior, respectively, to put pressure offensively on teams like the 2009 team did. Moreover, the 2009 UNC team was the continuing development of the 2008 team, an already dominant team. The 2011 UNC team was never a dominant team. And to their credit, they won a lot of close games; but many of those game could've easily gone the other way; and their season (record-wise) would not have been that great. To say that this team that was hardly dominant will become a "great", unbeatable and dominant team next year is a huge leap of faith. I actually think Kansas or OSU with Sullinger and their sophmore PG will more likely be the preseason #1 team with UNC in the top 4-5. But don't get me wrong, UNC will have as good a chance as anyone to win the NC; I just don't think it will be a done deal like some may think.


I believe this is a fair comment. I have also considered that this years version of UNC was not a dominate team. What makes anyone believe that the same group of guys will become dominate over the summer? Of course, consistent shooting from the perimeter was the missing ingredient for the heels. If UNC would have averaged 40% from three in the tournament, I believe we could have cut down the nets this year. Especially considering the way the top teams went down. I also believe that a more mature UNC team will understand what it takes to not only beat teams, but also how to step on their throats and finish their opponents off the way a dominate team does. Its an attitude that teams develop through success. I believe UNC will go into next season with this attitude and swagger.

My biggest concern will be sharing the minutes at the 2 and 3. I hope Roy can perform a balancing act that keeps the guys happy and doesn't take away from player development nor the overall flow of the offense. Constant substitutions can interrupt player confidence and chemistry on the court within the rotation. That will be the challenge for next years group. Winning by large margins and winning that way often will help control the situation.

All in all, this squad can be a great team, but there has to be a pretty big jump in perimeter scoring to be that team.

JStuart
04-07-2011, 01:13 PM
I believe this is a fair comment. I have also considered that this years version of UNC was not a dominate team. What makes anyone believe that the same group of guys will become dominate over the summer? Of course, consistent shooting from the perimeter was the missing ingredient for the heels. If UNC would have averaged 40% from three in the tournament, I believe we could have cut down the nets this year. Especially considering the way the top teams went down. I also believe that a more mature UNC team will understand what it takes to not only beat teams, but also how to step on their throats and finish their opponents off the way a dominate team does. ....

Do you mean dominant team, or dominate? Seems that there weren't any dominate teams in the Final Four this year.

ChicagoHeel
04-07-2011, 01:17 PM
All in all, this squad can be a great team, but there has to be a pretty big jump in perimeter scoring to be that team.

I certainly agree that even with Barnes there is no guarantee UNC will be dominant in the way we were in 2009. Injuries can undermine a season; individual players can fail to improve; teams can look great on paper and never gel (i.e. 1993-94 the returning national champion team that added Stackhouse and Wallace and went out pre-Sweet 16).

That said, if Barnes comes back, we will be one of a few contenders simply based on the fact that we have two proven scorers (one inside, one outside), a double-double machine, tough interior defense and good rebounding. Perimeter scoring and defense remain the biggest question marks, but there is certainly reason for optimism there. We will add Bullock and Hairston and can expect improvement from McDonald and Marshall; I don't think Strickland will ever be an outside threat. I do not know which, if any, of those four would be that consistent, efficient outside scoring threat that we had in Ellington/ Green, but given that there are four possible candidates, I feel comfortable predicting a significant improvement in our three point shooting.

The biggest difference between next year's team and 2009 is the level of the competition. Kentucky and OSU will be very good. I don't recall any other major threats in 2009.

kong123
04-07-2011, 01:34 PM
Do you mean dominant team, or dominate? Seems that there weren't any dominate teams in the Final Four this year.

yes, my bad. used a verb in the place of an adjective. should have proofed it closer.

superdave
04-07-2011, 02:35 PM
Unc will be loaded next year, no doubt. But the key to beating them will be to control Kendall Marshall. He makes them go, gets the big guys easy buckets and if he can hit a jumper consistently it will be huge. But Nolan took him right out of the game early in the ACCT. I'm not sure how many defenders there will be next year who can do that, but control Marshall and you can win.

superdave
04-07-2011, 02:38 PM
The biggest difference between next year's team and 2009 is the level of the competition. Kentucky and OSU will be very good. I don't recall any other major threats in 2009.

I was hoping for for a UConn - Unc matchup in 2009 because Thabeet could have patrolled the lane pretty well. I'd have put him on Hansbrough who always seemed to struggle to get his shot off vs. taller guys like that. Didnt happen. But UConn would have had a good chance vs. Unc because of their size inside.

davekay1971
04-07-2011, 02:50 PM
Kentucky and OSU will be very good. I don't recall any other major threats in 2009.

Don't forget about that team in Durham. While UNC will have the advantage in the paint, Duke will have a strong advantage in the perimeter. If Barnes comes back, I have to honestly admit UNC will have an advantage. But it won't be as big as some of us seem to think.

UNC's backcourt isn't looking at a major upgrade. Marshall is very good, and will get better. Bullock may be able to provide them with some perimeter shooting, but, even before his injury, he was pretty much a bust as a freshman. Our backcourt is going to be stellar. Rivers, by all accounts, is ready to come in as a dominant 2. With Curry handling some point duties and providing his scoring, Dawkins on the wing, Cook and Thornton giving time, and even a guy like MG coming off the bench at the 3, we will have a very, very good perimeter...and exactly how with UNC defend that?

NSDukeFan
04-07-2011, 03:28 PM
Defense, anyone?

They'll be rightly ranked in the top 2 or 3 in the country at the beginning of the year next year, but the perimeter D, to me, is a big weakness. Kentucky -- not a picture of offensive genius -- shredded you with good ball movement. Washington did too.
After the way Duke's season ended, I feel you may not want to throw many more stones living in our glass house. UNC was solid defensively this year, and I don't expect their guys to get worse defensively with more experience.

Come on back, Henson and The Black Falcon, so Duke can spank your rears again in the ACC Championship game and send you off to the NBA with your years at Chapel Hill filled with Chi O formals and no championships.
This

Probably preseason #1 and good, but won't scare the Devils.
And this

I have zero doubts that Barnes will be back in a UNC uni, just as I had zero doubts that Kryie would be gone.

There really hasn't been a truly great college team in the past couple years. Next season there will be. The heels will be as close to unbeatable as one can be. The level of talent and depth is just staggering. I'm bracing myself for the heels getting another natty, it's feels inevitable. The last time there was a team with this level of collective talent was 2009.
I disagree. I think Duke's team at the start of this year was much better than what UNC will start with next year, because of the senior leadership of Nolan and Kyle. I also think there are many teams that will be in the mix for top team next year, including UK (depending on who comes back, though it may not even matter with the class they have coming in, which may be their best of the last 3 years), Kansas (assuming their guys come back), a certain team in Durham will be very talented, etc.

Well in his defense, there's not a lot of room in there.

...
I'm not surprised Zeller is staying four years. As solid as he is at the college level, I'm not sure about his NBA potential. He's like a very poor man's Hansbrough - plays smart and below the rim, but doesn't have the athleticism for the NBA. I could be wrong. Henson probably would have been drafted in the late first round based on potential, but he's not hurting his stock by staying. Barnes would be gambling somewhat by staying. He could vault into becoming the top pick overall, or he could be exposed by another poor shooting year and slip.

I enjoyed your first line.
I think both Zeller and Henson will be solid pros. Zeller may be a poor man's Hansbrough, but he is also 7 feet tall. I believe there is a place in the NBA for most skilled 7 footers who can run the floor, shoot, rebound. If Henson develops a shooting touch to go with his defense and puts on a few pounds, he could be an effective starter in the league, IMO. They will be tough for Duke to beat next year, but that is usually true and I will agree with davekay and roywhite above. Bring it on, Duke is going to be very good as well.

oldnavy
04-07-2011, 04:21 PM
I certainly agree that even with Barnes there is no guarantee UNC will be dominant in the way we were in 2009. Injuries can undermine a season; individual players can fail to improve; teams can look great on paper and never gel (i.e. 1993-94 the returning national champion team that added Stackhouse and Wallace and went out pre-Sweet 16).

That said, if Barnes comes back, we will be one of a few contenders simply based on the fact that we have two proven scorers (one inside, one outside), a double-double machine, tough interior defense and good rebounding. Perimeter scoring and defense remain the biggest question marks, but there is certainly reason for optimism there. We will add Bullock and Hairston and can expect improvement from McDonald and Marshall; I don't think Strickland will ever be an outside threat. I do not know which, if any, of those four would be that consistent, efficient outside scoring threat that we had in Ellington/ Green, but given that there are four possible candidates, I feel comfortable predicting a significant improvement in our three point shooting.

The biggest difference between next year's team and 2009 is the level of the competition. Kentucky and OSU will be very good. I don't recall any other major threats in 2009.
If all goes well and UNC can avoid the injury bug like they did this year, they will be a very tough team to beat. But as we know very well, just one slight misstep and things can change in a big way.

I think with everyone back and everyone healthy, the biggest problem UNC will have will be themselves. What I mean is that UNC under Roy can play out of control at times. It never ceases to amaze me how fast they come down and jack up 20 foot shots in critical junctures of games. If they can play within themselves and work inside out in the half court then they will be VERY hard to beat.

ChicagoHeel
04-07-2011, 06:25 PM
Don't forget about that team in Durham. While UNC will have the advantage in the paint, Duke will have a strong advantage in the perimeter. If Barnes comes back, I have to honestly admit UNC will have an advantage. But it won't be as big as some of us seem to think.

UNC's backcourt isn't looking at a major upgrade. Marshall is very good, and will get better. Bullock may be able to provide them with some perimeter shooting, but, even before his injury, he was pretty much a bust as a freshman. Our backcourt is going to be stellar. Rivers, by all accounts, is ready to come in as a dominant 2. With Curry handling some point duties and providing his scoring, Dawkins on the wing, Cook and Thornton giving time, and even a guy like MG coming off the bench at the 3, we will have a very, very good perimeter...and exactly how with UNC defend that?

I think Duke will be good next year, but a notch below OSU, KU, and UNC (assuming Barnes returns). Of course, it is very early to be making these kinds of predictions, but my sense is that there are a lot of question marks for Duke next year. You are reliant on Rivers living up to expectations, much as we were reliant on Barnes this last year. I fully expect Rivers to be very good, but never like to place to much hope in a freshman coming in and carrying a heavy load. He could score a lot, but do so inefficiently. Also, there is the question of how good the supporting cast will be (e.g. Curry, Plumlees) now that they no longer have Singler and Smith to draw the attention and provide guaranteed points; how good will they be when they are the focus of opposing defenses? In 2009-10, we had a bunch of very good, but nonetheless role players who were not capable or ready to play a starring role. We know how that worked out. I certainly don't expect Duke to end up in the NIT, but I wouldn't be surprised if you lose a few more games than you are accustomed to.

SupaDave
04-07-2011, 08:06 PM
I think Duke will be good next year, but a notch below OSU, KU, and UNC (assuming Barnes returns). Of course, it is very early to be making these kinds of predictions, but my sense is that there are a lot of question marks for Duke next year. You are reliant on Rivers living up to expectations, much as we were reliant on Barnes this last year. I fully expect Rivers to be very good, but never like to place to much hope in a freshman coming in and carrying a heavy load. He could score a lot, but do so inefficiently. Also, there is the question of how good the supporting cast will be (e.g. Curry, Plumlees) now that they no longer have Singler and Smith to draw the attention and provide guaranteed points; how good will they be when they are the focus of opposing defenses? In 2009-10, we had a bunch of very good, but nonetheless role players who were not capable or ready to play a starring role. We know how that worked out. I certainly don't expect Duke to end up in the NIT, but I wouldn't be surprised if you lose a few more games than you are accustomed to.

Austin's ready baby. Believe that. Or do I need to fish up the youtube video of him crossing over John Wall LAST summer. Oh yes.

I'm hear to tell you that we're not scared of UNC - or any other team. We take on all comers. Honestly, I'll take losing 6-7 close games next year over some of the blow-outs we've given up in the last few years.

But this Duke team will be ready to run. Stronger than UNC in the post and more talented on the perimeter. Mason has performed generally well against UNC and I don't see that changing - especially if he just learns to freaking pump fake. He shares a familiarity with Zeller that many seem to overlook (well all of My Three Plums actually).

This year - everyone gets to prove why they came to Duke - and beating UNC is part of that equation. This team will know what it takes to beat UNC.

Newton_14
04-07-2011, 09:01 PM
Austin's ready baby. Believe that. Or do I need to fish up the youtube video of him crossing over John Wall LAST summer. Oh yes.

I'm hear to tell you that we're not scared of UNC - or any other team. We take on all comers. Honestly, I'll take losing 6-7 close games next year over some of the blow-outs we've given up in the last few years.

But this Duke team will be ready to run. Stronger than UNC in the post and more talented on the perimeter. Mason has performed generally well against UNC and I don't see that changing - especially if he just learns to freaking pump fake. He shares a familiarity with Zeller that many seem to overlook (well all of My Three Plums actually).

This year - everyone gets to prove why they came to Duke - and beating UNC is part of that equation. This team will know what it takes to beat UNC.

Preach it brother! Supa you are inspiring me dude. I am pumped! Can we play the heels tomorrow night in Cameron? Love it!

Our inside guys will be ready for the challenge. They rose up in that ACC Title game and fought, which is what is required. They just have to do it game in and game out. I think Mr. Hairston will have a few things to say in the paint as well. Our guys will go to work in the Summer, and don't forget the China trip. That is going to be a big benefit for this group as well.

BattierBattalion
04-07-2011, 09:20 PM
IMO, Henson was the key for UNC's season next year. If his one-man defensive lockdown didn't come back, I don't think they'd be title contenders even with Barnes. At this point, Barnes coming back would just be gravy.

Nonetheless, I think Duke will be fine next year and will certainly have the chance to make some noise. I honestly rather us fly under the radar a little bit.

CDu
04-08-2011, 09:25 AM
IMO, Henson was the key for UNC's season next year. If his one-man defensive lockdown didn't come back, I don't think they'd be title contenders even with Barnes. At this point, Barnes coming back would just be gravy.

Nonetheless, I think Duke will be fine next year and will certainly have the chance to make some noise. I honestly rather us fly under the radar a little bit.

I think Barnes is the best of the three, but I think the point is interesting that keeping both Zeller and Henson may have been as important if not more. Losing Barnes would hurt, but they do have Bullock and Hairston at the 3. That's a step down, but it doesn't mean that the position becomes a weakness. Losing Henson or Zeller (or both) would have made their frontcourt a huge weakness. Along with limited scoring punch from the guard spots, you'd have a challenged team.

Now, the only holes appear to be offensive consistency at the 2. They'll be a very tough team if they avoid injury. They won't be unbeatable, but they'll be very very good.

Devilsfan
04-08-2011, 10:56 AM
The Rams Club must have really anted up. It will be even more special when we beat them next year.

kong123
04-08-2011, 11:11 AM
The Rams Club must have really anted up.

are you implying that The Rams Club paid the one or more of the players to get them to come back? hmmmmmmm......

Devilsfan
04-08-2011, 01:30 PM
Just a little ABC humor. UNC is, I truly believe, a clean program and a very respectable opponent.