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SupaDave
04-05-2011, 02:41 PM
Well the Pack has made its decision.

Discuss here...

uh_no
04-05-2011, 02:48 PM
Well the Pack has made its decision.

Discuss here...

don't know too much of the guy, but looks to be a good hire.

homebre
04-05-2011, 02:51 PM
Actually it's Gilbert Gottried!! Aflac!!

JG Nothing
04-05-2011, 03:00 PM
don't know too much of the guy, but looks to be a good hire.

A good hire if you aspire to no better than the second tier in the ACC.

cbnaylor
04-05-2011, 03:02 PM
I thought the whole point was for Yow to hire someone well known....I had no clue who this guy was! :) I'm sure the sea of red will be very happy!

MChambers
04-05-2011, 03:07 PM
A good hire if you aspire to no better than the second tier in the ACC.
Didn't Gottfried give Duke a tough game in 1996 in the NCAA tournament when he was at Murray State?

The Gordog
04-05-2011, 03:10 PM
I thought the whole point was for Yow to hire someone well known....I had no clue who this guy was! :) I'm sure the sea of red will be very happy!

I think the point was to hire someone who can coach. Not sure if he fits that bill.:confused:

JG Nothing
04-05-2011, 03:11 PM
Didn't Gottfried give Duke a tough game in 1996 in the NCAA tournament when he was at Murray State?

1997 I believe.

Duvall
04-05-2011, 03:13 PM
Didn't Gottfried give Duke a tough game in 1996 in the NCAA tournament when he was at Murray State?

1997. Duke got a tougher game from Pete Gillen that weekend, so I'm not sure that says too much.

A-Tex Devil
04-05-2011, 03:15 PM
I thought the whole point was for Yow to hire someone well known....I had no clue who this guy was! :) I'm sure the sea of red will be very happy!

He's a good coach and was a shot not unlike Heyward's shot from upsetting Duke in the first round of the 1997 NCAAs as a 15 seed. I was at that game, and i certainly clinched up a bit as the ball was in the air.

Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Gottfried) has opined on it, although I'm not sure how long it will be up.

"On April 5, 2011, NC State made a terrible hiring decision."

His main problem has been that he's a bit shady -- you might remember, and it's detailed in the Wikipedia page, that he offered Tony Woods the day after Skip Prosser passed. He was run out of 'Bama after a decent little run due to a couple of poor seasons and some potential NCAA issues.

Clearly the Pack is over its image concern post Jimmy-V with respect with the NCAA, but Gottfried can recruit (Mo Williams, Ronald Steele, Kennedy Winston) and he can coach. If he can avoid being shady, this isn't a bad hire.

Greg_Newton
04-05-2011, 03:20 PM
This will either be a brilliant move or a terrible move depending on how he does... will he be Coach K or Bzdelick?

It can't be a good sign that his name isn't even near the top of the autocomplete list when you type in "Matt Gott" in google... :rolleyes:

ETA: Oh boy, and the first entry if you google his name is a linkedin profile for a "Professional Public Relations Intern" at Walt Disney.

CDu
04-05-2011, 03:21 PM
Well, that's... interesting. I guess he technically fits the requirements of "previous college head coaching experience" and "some prior NCAA tournament success." But that success is a while ago.

For State fans, at least the search is over. It's almost certainly not the guy they were looking for (or even among the top 5-6 guys on the list). I don't think I'd be excited as a State fan, but at least there's some clarity. It could have been better, but it could definitely have been worse.

PSurprise
04-05-2011, 03:23 PM
At least he won't have to throw away all of his red wardrobe. He can just cover up the 'A'.

Duvall
04-05-2011, 03:23 PM
This will either be a brilliant move or a terrible move depending on how he does... will he be Coach K or Bzdelick?


He'll probably be Mark Gottfried - some years in the NCAAs, some years not, but no real success on the national level. An upgrade from the Lowe years, to be sure.

RoyalBlue08
04-05-2011, 03:27 PM
He'll probably be Mark Gottfried - some years in the NCAAs, some years not, but no real success on the national level. An upgrade from the Lowe years, to be sure.

So you meant to say that he will be Herb Sendek?

Lid
04-05-2011, 03:28 PM
It can't be a good sign that his name isn't even near the top of the autocomplete list when you type in "Matt Gott" in google... :rolleyes:

ETA: Oh boy, and the first entry if you google his name is a linkedin profile for a "Professional Public Relations Intern" at Walt Disney.

Well, to be fair, his name is Mark, not Matt, so that may affect the results. (I guess Google isn't as good as they think they are, if they can't even guess who we meant to type...) :)

CDu
04-05-2011, 03:30 PM
So you meant to say that he will be Herb Sendek?

That's what somebody just said on the local sports radio.

The home run candidates fell through. The second-tier options fell through. The young gun options fell through. Given all that, getting a guy with Herb's track record (though no other similarities) is probably as good as they could get.

Duvall
04-05-2011, 03:31 PM
So you meant to say that he will be Herb Sendek?

Maybe. State basketball is in much better shape now than it was when Sendek took over, so I wouldn't think it would take six years to get back to the tournament.

MChambers
04-05-2011, 03:35 PM
That's what somebody just said on the local sports radio.

The home run candidates fell through. The second-tier options fell through. The young gun options fell through. Given all that, getting a guy with Herb's track record (though no other similarities) is probably as good as they could get.

Actually, looking at www.kenpom.com, Alabama played a slow game this year, ranking 257th in tempo, 115th in offensive, and 7th in defense. Herb's never had that good of a defensive team, but the pace sounds similar to his NCSU teams. Sounds like a style that won't please many, but if Gottfried wins it won't matter.

CDu
04-05-2011, 03:40 PM
Actually, looking at www.kenpom.com, Alabama played a slow game this year, ranking 257th in tempo, 115th in offensive, and 7th in defense. Herb's never had that good of a defensive team, but the pace sounds similar to his NCSU teams. Sounds like a style that won't please many, but if Gottfried wins it won't matter.

Gottfried wasn't the coach at Alabama this year. He left in 2009.

tbyers11
04-05-2011, 03:40 PM
Actually, looking at www.kenpom.com, Alabama played a slow game this year, ranking 257th in tempo, 115th in offensive, and 7th in defense. Herb's never had that good of a defensive team, but the pace sounds similar to his NCSU teams. Sounds like a style that won't please many, but if Gottfried wins it won't matter.

Umm, Gottfried hasn't been the coach at Alabama since midway through the 2009 season when he resigned.

Most of his teams (2003-2008) were in the 200's or lower for pace according to Ken Pom though. They tended to be better OE teams than DE teams.

A-Tex Devil
04-05-2011, 03:41 PM
Actually, looking at www.kenpom.com, Alabama played a slow game this year, ranking 257th in tempo, 115th in offensive, and 7th in defense. Herb's never had that good of a defensive team, but the pace sounds similar to his NCSU teams. Sounds like a style that won't please many, but if Gottfried wins it won't matter.

Gottfried wasn't at Bama this year, though. He got pushed out for some sketchy stuff (another thing that makes him a lot different than Sendek).

This is a solid hire just like Lon Kruger was a solid hire for Oklahoma. I don't get the backlash (where I do understand it in Mizzou's case).

superdave
04-05-2011, 03:44 PM
Does anyone know the story on Ronald Steele leaving Alabama and causing Gottfried to resign mid-season? The news articles dont say much about it.

He seems to be able to recruit and coach. I really hope he propsers there.

MChambers
04-05-2011, 03:44 PM
Gottfried wasn't at Bama this year, though. He got pushed out for some sketchy stuff (another thing that makes him a lot different than Sendek).

This is a solid hire just like Lon Kruger was a solid hire for Oklahoma. I don't get the backlash (where I do understand it in Mizzou's case).

Shows how closely I follow the SEC! Thanks for the correction.

CDu
04-05-2011, 03:45 PM
Gottfried wasn't at Bama this year, though. He got pushed out for some sketchy stuff (another thing that makes him a lot different than Sendek).

This is a solid hire just like Lon Kruger was a solid hire for Oklahoma. I don't get the backlash (where I do understand it in Mizzou's case).

A week ago, the idea of this guy stunk. Given where the program was as of this morning, it's a good move. He's got major conference experience, and he's had some success.

It's not a home run. It's not a complete whiff either. It could very well work out.

roywhite
04-05-2011, 03:50 PM
A week ago, the idea of this guy stunk. Given where the program was as of this morning, it's a good move. He's got major conference experience, and he's had some success.

It's not a home run. It's not a complete whiff either. It could very well work out.

True dat.

Will NC State define success as achieving the levels of the Herb Sendek era? Just my opinion, but I'd put that as maybe an upper end of Gottfried's capabilities.

CDu
04-05-2011, 03:54 PM
True dat.

Will NC State define success as achieving the levels of the Herb Sendek era? Just my opinion, but I'd put that as maybe an upper end of Gottfried's capabilities.

I think that's a very reasonable statement and question. I think his ceiling could be higher than what Sendek actually did. But Sendek's results are probably an upper end for expectations.

loran16
04-05-2011, 04:06 PM
Gottfried wasn't at Bama this year, though. He got pushed out for some sketchy stuff (another thing that makes him a lot different than Sendek).

This is a solid hire just like Lon Kruger was a solid hire for Oklahoma. I don't get the backlash (where I do understand it in Mizzou's case).

The problem is that there's no name recognition. It's a really random hire: a guy out of coaching for two years. And the Lavin comparison doesn't work because UCLA is a much bigger job than Bama and Lavin was high profile on TV.

Moreover, really only the E8 screams exciting about the Bama tenure. Remember, Bama was in the SEC West: which has been for years the dredge of the conference.

For fun, here's the Pomeroy rankings of Gottfried's teams in his last 4 years:
2009 95th (resigned mid season)
2008 71st
2007 58th
2006 43rd

In 2005, they were a good team, to be fair. But he was clearly treading BACKWARDS, and lost his best player to a transfer before being fired.

It could work out. But this is another Sidney Lowe-esque hire: random, disappointing and very likely to backfire.

CDu
04-05-2011, 04:18 PM
The problem is that there's no name recognition. It's a really random hire: a guy out of coaching for two years. And the Lavin comparison doesn't work because UCLA is a much bigger job than Bama and Lavin was high profile on TV.

Moreover, really only the E8 screams exciting about the Bama tenure. Remember, Bama was in the SEC West: which has been for years the dredge of the conference.

For fun, here's the Pomeroy rankings of Gottfried's teams in his last 4 years:
2009 95th (resigned mid season)
2008 71st
2007 58th
2006 43rd

In 2005, they were a good team, to be fair. But he was clearly treading BACKWARDS, and lost his best player to a transfer before being fired.

It could work out. But this is another Sidney Lowe-esque hire: random, disappointing and very likely to backfire.

Again, given where they were a week or two ago, it's a terrible hire. Clearly, things didn't work out with candidates 1 through X. So given that they didn't get Donovan/Miller/Smart/Marshall/Mack/etc, the options were slim. It's a solid hire - it's just a matter of realizing that the situation this morning was different than it was a week or two ago.

Gottfried had good success from 2000-2005. After that, his program faded to basically where NC State is now.

There are similarities to the 2006 hire in terms of misjudging the market and ending up with an "eh" coach. The main differences between Gottfried and Lowe is that Gottfried has a long history as a college coach and some of that history includes some decent success.

LSanders
04-05-2011, 04:24 PM
Actually it's Gilbert Gottried!! Aflac!!

Uhm ... Not anymore ...

A-Tex Devil
04-05-2011, 04:39 PM
It could work out. But this is another Sidney Lowe-esque hire: random, disappointing and very likely to backfire.

If NC State had gotten it together and hired Lon Kruger, would its alumni feel differently?

In a lot of ways Gottfried is a pretty safe hire. I am not singing his praises or anything, but the Wolfpack alumni have untenable delusions of grandeur. This is a better hire than Sydney Lowe was. And like him or not, he's got skins on the wall. No coach that has been to the final four in the last decade is leaving his position to go to NC State, so instead they get a guy that has a half dozen tourney wins under his belt. That's better than what Sendek did at NC State in the same timeframe.

Gottfried was definitely on a downward slope at 'Bama, so there is some risk, but he's been successful. Probably moreso than anyone else on NC State's "realistic" list other than Shaka Smart.

davekay1971
04-05-2011, 04:46 PM
Certainly not what State was hoping for at the start of their coaching search. It's a hire with potential for success, but far, far from a home run. Pluses: he can recruit and he had some success at a football first school with no basketball tradition and he appears to be a decent game coach. Minuses: as noted above, his arc turned downward at 'Bama, and his past isn't exactly spotless.

Someone noted above it's a good hire if you're ok with 2nd tier in the ACC. Well, realistically, other than hitting a home run with a guy like Coach K when Duke hired him from Army (not an easy thing to do), State probably is looking for someone to get them to the top of the 2nd tier in the ACC. The top tier is Duke/UNC. Period. Until Williams and K retire, that's the way it's going to be. Finding a guy who can make that a 3 team club is hard...hasn't happened in the last 25 years in the ACC, and how many coaches have been hired by the other ACC schools over that time? But NC State can certainly hope, with Gottfried, to compete annually for that 3-5 spot in conference.

No doubt Yow is thinking Gottfried is going to be a bridge, hopefully to put them in position to hit that home run in 5-7 years, when one could reasonably expect K and Williams to be riding off into the sunset. If Gottfried can elevate State back to the top of the 2nd tier, put them in the NCAA tournament more often than not, then State will be in much better position for their next hire when the two 800 pound gorillas are leaving the room.

One of the most interesting things to me in these articles is the mention of Gary Williams spreading the poison about Yow among the coaching fraternity.

loran16
04-05-2011, 04:49 PM
If NC State had gotten it together and hired Lon Kruger, would its alumni feel differently?

In a lot of ways Gottfried is a pretty safe hire. I am not singing his praises or anything, but the Wolfpack alumni have untenable delusions of grandeur. This is a better hire than Sydney Lowe was. And like him or not, he's got skins on the wall. No coach that has been to the final four in the last decade is leaving his position to go to NC State, so instead they get a guy that has a half dozen tourney wins under his belt. That's better than what Sendek did at NC State in the same timeframe.

Gottfried was definitely on a downward slope at 'Bama, so there is some risk, but he's been successful. Probably moreso than anyone else on NC States realistic list other than Shaka Smart.

I disagree on the risk involved, I think there's a good deal here.

In my mind, Yow basically was dead set on hiring a head coach with a tourney run on the resume (I can't find where she said this, but I remember a few media members snickering about how the requirements would have removed people like Coach K from the criteria). And thus she hired someone who's run came 7 years ago.

I think if you were willing to go with risk, you'd have been better off hiring an assistant from a major college program (a Wojo type, or someone off of Izzo's staff, or Calipari's staff, etc. etc.)

A-Tex Devil
04-05-2011, 05:12 PM
I think if you were willing to go with risk, you'd have been better off hiring an assistant from a major college program (a Wojo type, or someone off of Izzo's staff, or Calipari's staff, etc. etc.)

That's a good point, but what was the last major college program to hire a college assistant that (A) wasn't in house and (B) wasn't from Duke? And to add to that, have any of those been successful? Jamie Dixon (who was in house), and ...... (?)

You could argue that this guy is no better than say, Quin Snyder, as far as resume, and there is some truth to that. But I don't know how he is riskier than anyone else that was available. Who should they have hired that isn't risky? What was the better hire? I disagree that it would be some highly sought after assistant.

I think we are arguing past each other here. The point is that Gottfried is the best they could get right now, and is miles better than the Sydney Lowe hire.

loran16
04-05-2011, 05:18 PM
I think we are arguing past each other here. The point is that Gottfried is the best they could get right now, and is miles better than the Sydney Lowe hire.

As I said to a friend on facebook: "I'm more qualified than Sydney Lowe was....I have a college degree." Setting low standards.

The Lowe hire was a joke, a desperate attempt to convince fans that a piece of State history could restore them after all their high profile targets turned them down.

CDu
04-05-2011, 05:20 PM
No doubt Yow is thinking Gottfried is going to be a bridge, hopefully to put them in position to hit that home run in 5-7 years, when one could reasonably expect K and Williams to be riding off into the sunset. If Gottfried can elevate State back to the top of the 2nd tier, put them in the NCAA tournament more often than not, then State will be in much better position for their next hire when the two 800 pound gorillas are leaving the room.

This is a key point. Ideally, the new hire would have been the guy that coaches the team to glory in 5-10 years (or whenever it is that Coach K and Williams exit/decline). The next best thing is to get the program back to competitiveness and relevance in the interim to be in position to make the job appealing to the next great coach when the time comes.

Gottfried isn't the ideal guy, and it's unclear whether or not he's even the best choice for the next best thing. But the options for the next best thing had just as much, if not more, risk of being a whiff. And NC State can't afford another whiff.

loran16
04-05-2011, 05:33 PM
BTW, If you want to know why State looked at him, it's revealed at the press conference:

Gottfried's known Yow since Gottfried was 17-18. (Presumably in non-squicky ways).

Soooo yeah, hire who you know.

365Duke
04-05-2011, 05:38 PM
Well....I guess UM just found their true rival, after Yow just called out Gary in a BIG way at the presser.

loran16
04-05-2011, 05:38 PM
Well....I guess UM just found their true rival, after Yow just called out Gary in a BIG way at the presser.

To quote:

"I have a reputation of not getting along with Gary Williams, who has tried to sabotage this search."

Ummm, wow.

Duvall
04-05-2011, 05:47 PM
To quote:

"I have a reputation of not getting along with Gary Williams, who has tried to sabotage this search."

Ummm, wow.

Let's hope the ACC extends the scheduling model and sends Maryland to N.C. State next season.

dukelifer
04-05-2011, 05:53 PM
To quote:

"I have a reputation of not getting along with Gary Williams, who has tried to sabotage this search."

Ummm, wow.

wow- them's fightin words. But if he all he said is that Yow is hard to work for- not sure how one could say that is sabotaging. The ACC needs a little off season excitement.

roywhite
04-05-2011, 05:55 PM
To quote:

"I have a reputation of not getting along with Gary Williams, who has tried to sabotage this search."

Ummm, wow.

Yikes.

Older sister Kay --- widely liked and admired.

Debbie --- not so much.

jimrowe0
04-05-2011, 05:57 PM
Does anyone know the story on Ronald Steele leaving Alabama and causing Gottfried to resign mid-season? The news articles dont say much about it.

He seems to be able to recruit and coach. I really hope he propsers there.

According to what I have been hearing from a few state people, Gottfried resigned after he has caught having a sexual relationship with a female grad student. Gottfried was married with 4 children at the time.

CDu
04-05-2011, 05:59 PM
To quote:

"I have a reputation of not getting along with Gary Williams, who has tried to sabotage this search."

Ummm, wow.

To say the least. Those are strong accusations.

wilko
04-05-2011, 06:04 PM
According to what I have been hearing from a few state people, Gottfried resigned after he has caught having a sexual relationship with a female grad student. Gottfried was married with 4 children at the time.

WOW! So after a career killing Flame out - Yow finds a guy desperate to get back into coaching...? What the heck HAS Gary been saying? Talk about squarely in the cross-hairs...

Well good, someone needs to keep Md occupied and their attention away from us...


I thought State was after a " big name" I never heard of this guy... not even a little bit.

They could have gone with:
Reggie Witherspoon of Buffalo ...
His last name has 11 letters making it the biggest in the ACC

CDu
04-05-2011, 06:54 PM
I thought State was after a " big name" I never heard of this guy... not even a little bit.

Well, they WERE after big-name guys. That didn't work out. This guy was an up-and-comer a decade ago. His name was relevant in the early 2000s. Then his Alabama program faded into mediocrity, and he's been out of coaching for two years.

I do wonder on which side of the coin Yow's comments about Williams "sabotoging" the search really falls. If I were a coach and I knew the AD had a history of problems with the coach at a previous stop, I'd certainly want to get more information (i.e., ask that previous coach). And Williams is certainly within his right to be honest about his experiences if asked. That wouldn't constitute sabotoge. If he was giving unsolicited negative information (or lying in a negative fashion), that would be sabotoge.

Yow's comments (if that quote is accurate) seem troubling in that they either reflect poorly on Williams (if he did try to sabotoge) or her (if she's making misleading remarks in the public about Williams).

loran16
04-05-2011, 07:03 PM
Well, they WERE after big-name guys. That didn't work out. This guy was an up-and-comer a decade ago. His name was relevant in the early 2000s. Then his Alabama program faded into mediocrity, and he's been out of coaching for two years.

I do wonder on which side of the coin Yow's comments about Williams "sabotoging" the search really falls. If I were a coach and I knew the AD had a history of problems with the coach at a previous stop, I'd certainly want to get more information (i.e., ask that previous coach). And Williams is certainly within his right to be honest about his experiences if asked. That wouldn't constitute sabotoge. If he was giving unsolicited negative information (or lying in a negative fashion), that would be sabotoge.

Yow's comments (if that quote is accurate) seem troubling in that they either reflect poorly on Williams (if he did try to sabotoge) or her (if she's making misleading remarks in the public about Williams).

Williams has released a statement:

""I haven't talked to anyone - coach or athletic director - connected to the NC State search. I don't have any interest in the NC State search, since I'm coaching at Maryland and working hard to run our program. Anyone who says I've had contact with a prospective coach or athletic director regarding this search isn't being truthful."

Gary would have been well within his rights to talk to any coaching candidate who asked for impressions of Yow, but he claims not to even have done that.

Duvall
04-05-2011, 07:05 PM
Williams has released a statement:

""I haven't talked to anyone - coach or athletic director - connected to the NC State search. I don't have any interest in the NC State search, since I'm coaching at Maryland and working hard to run our program. Anyone who says I've had contact with a prospective coach or athletic director regarding this search isn't being truthful."


Well, there's one untrue statement right there. Can we really trust the remainder of the statement?

fuse
04-05-2011, 08:33 PM
So is it too early to begin the speculation about who will be State's coach in 2016?

Duvall
04-05-2011, 08:39 PM
So is it too early to begin the speculation about who will be State's coach in 2016?

Archie Miller. Or maybe Rick Barnes.

lotusland
04-05-2011, 09:24 PM
So is it too early to begin the speculation about who will be State's coach in 2016?

Cozell McQueen?

dukelifer
04-05-2011, 10:21 PM
Well, there's one untrue statement right there. Can we really trust the remainder of the statement?

Well will Gary take this to the next level and sue for defamation of character. Yow really went over the line with that comment. She could be in some trouble if it turns out that Gary has done nothing here.

Duvall
04-05-2011, 10:33 PM
Well will Gary take this to the next level and sue for defamation of character. Yow really went over the line with that comment. She could be in some trouble if it turns out that Gary has done nothing here.

Don't see it, nothing with statements that vague about claims that were reported in the press.

jefreema
04-06-2011, 12:21 AM
i don't understand how anyone that's a fan of college basketball could NEVER have heard of mark gottried! i mean, i can still remember alabama upsetting 1 seed stanford several years ago....

i mean, granted, he's not a huge name but folks should definitely remember him.

-bdbd
04-06-2011, 12:43 AM
Williams has released a statement:

""I haven't talked to anyone - coach or athletic director - connected to the NC State search. I don't have any interest in the NC State search, since I'm coaching at Maryland and working hard to run our program. Anyone who says I've had contact with a prospective coach or athletic director regarding this search isn't being truthful."

Gary would have been well within his rights to talk to any coaching candidate who asked for impressions of Yow, but he claims not to even have done that.

Interesting wording on Gary's statement. Speaking directly to an AD or Coach directly engaged in the search is not the only way to "sabatoge" their coach search. That leaves a lot of room for spreading rumors, speaking to the AD/Coach's family and friends, having his associates/friends speak to said coach/AD, etc. A MD pal of mine thinks this is the sort of thing Gary might do, carrying an anti-Yow grudge...

DevilWearsPrada
04-06-2011, 05:02 AM
I heard on the sports radio yesterday, that a website was already started to:
FIRE MARK GOTTFRIED at State. (Are State fans really like that?)

I only found the Fire Mark Gottfried Facebooks online (but it was for Alabama).

I hope NCState gives the man a chance. They bashed Herb the last 2 years he was there. And he got the Wolfpack to the NCAA tourney, and the Sweet 16.

Didnt get to hear any of the news conference with the new coach. Hope he can bring back some prominence to the program. (by beating Carolina, but of course, not DUKE!)

Did STATE fans, or AD Yow really believe that Shaka Smart would take the job this year?

Thankful Duke has Coach K and a good AD, with Dr White.

sandinmyshoes
04-06-2011, 07:37 AM
Gottfried is a more than capable coach, but the NCSU situation is a constant tinderbox. And Yow just added a new element with her slam of Gary Williams. What an intriguing mess. You've got a new coach who was pushed out from a mediocre job. Possibly the most paranoid fanbase in all of the NCAA. An AD who evidently likes to play with matches. Wow.

The NCSU/Maryland games suddenly got much more interesting.

bjornolf
04-06-2011, 08:04 AM
All they're talking about on the radio this morning is the Debbie Yow v. Gary Williams death match. Apparently, she accused him of sabotaging her search for a new coach at NC State, and then Gregg Doyel went on the radio and called Gary a coward and a little man for not returning his emails and calls yesterday. He then went on to say that Debbie dripped with competence (there's kind of a weird compliment) and had NO ego (what AD doesn't have some ego?). John Feinstein weighed in this morning on the Sports Junkies and said that Gary was out of town on vacation playing golf, and wasn't surprised that he wasn't taking random media calls. As John said, there are a lot of things you can call Gary, but coward ain't one of them. He went on to say that clearly Doyel hadn't spent much time with Debbie, because from the numerous times he'd dealt with her, in particular in setting up the BB&T classic (where she wanted to squeeze out every penny for the university to the detriment of the charity it was supposed to support...in fact, he said Gary often had to come in and mediate), her ego "wouldn't fit in the Comcast Center". Of course, he said, his (John's) wasn't any smaller, just to be fair.

moonpie23
04-06-2011, 09:19 AM
he'd better beat gary next year ....

langdonfan
04-06-2011, 09:37 AM
According to what I have been hearing from a few state people, Gottfried resigned after he has caught having a sexual relationship with a female grad student. Gottfried was married with 4 children at the time.

I think there was more to his resignation just that. His star player, Ronald Steele, was "injured" for some time and later left the team. There was speculation that Steele and possibly others just no longer wanted to play for Gottfried. Maybe issues with his coaching style? Not sure...

Slackerb
04-06-2011, 10:02 AM
As a pack fan, I have mixed feelings about the hire.

Two weeks ago, this would have been a disappointment. Everyone expected us to go after the big names, Miller, Barnes, etc. or at least give them a call and then when they turned us down get an up and comer like Shaka Smart.

No one expected us to get turned down by Smart. I believe that Marshall and Cronin didn't actually get offered, and we informed them that we weren't interested. In the press conference and the email sent out, Yow alludes that at least one of the candidates over the last few days had an unhealthy "reverence" towards Duke and UNC and once she heard that it ended the interview.

So, she leans on old ties and pulls Gottfried out of thin air.

Considering where we were yesterday, I think it was a great hire. At this point, I'm not convinced he's riskier than Shaka Smart or Gregg Marshall.

He's got some risk and some potential. On the risk side, his last 3-4 years at Alabama were not impressive in the least, and he has at least one or two shady issues in his past. On the potential side, he's taken a football school to their first #1 ranking and Elite Eight, something no coach at State has done since the middle of the Jimmy V years. State fans would be ok with 5-6 NCAA appearances, #1 ranking for a few weeks, and an Elite Eight over the next decade.

Gottfried has experience at a high-major and recruits well. Not many remaining candidates could say that.

loran16
04-06-2011, 10:16 AM
No one expected us to get turned down by Smart. I believe that Marshall and Cronin didn't actually get offered, and we informed them that we weren't interested. In the press conference and the email sent out, Yow alludes that at least one of the candidates over the last few days had an unhealthy "reverence" towards Duke and UNC and once she heard that it ended the interview.


I call bull on this by the way. It's a nice way for Yow to explain away not hiring a coach without giving any particular way of confirming the story.

In reality, Yow would be crazy to turn away a coach for that reason.

jimrowe0
04-06-2011, 10:21 AM
I think there was more to his resignation just that. His star player, Ronald Steele, was "injured" for some time and later left the team. There was speculation that Steele and possibly others just no longer wanted to play for Gottfried. Maybe issues with his coaching style? Not sure...

You are correct. I don't think it was the only factor, but it certainly did force his hand (resigning mid-season). However, Alabama hadn't made the tournament the two previous years and the current year was going poorly after Steele was injured. He would have likely resigned or been fired after the season, but ultimately the affair with the student is what caused his resignation at the time. I would also imagine that the sketchy resignation (affair with a student) is why he hasn't coached again since then?

nocilla
04-06-2011, 10:22 AM
I call bull on this by the way. It's a nice way for Yow to explain away not hiring a coach without giving any particular way of confirming the story.

In reality, Yow would be crazy to turn away a coach for that reason.

I may have misunderstood, but I took it as them being afraid of competing with Duke/UNC. They held Duke/UNC in such high regards that they felt there was no way they would be able to compete with them. Whereas Gottfried says he is not afraid of any challenges.

sagegrouse
04-06-2011, 10:37 AM
In the press conference and the email sent out, Yow alludes that at least one of the candidates over the last few days had an unhealthy "reverence" towards Duke and UNC and once she heard that it ended the interview.



As a Duke grad, let me apply a little eruditio et religio textual criticism to Yow's remarK. Here's the conversation that I think took place:


Imagined Candidate: "I don't know, Debbie, Duke and UNC are really formidable programs. I'd have to think hard about how we would compete with them."

AD Yow: "Well, that's the problem I face, and I am looking for a coach who can help me."

IOW, the candidate was looking for a polite way to say, "No," and used the obvious excuse.

Debbie Yow, who is very skilled, turned it to an advantage.

Any guy who wanted the job would say, "Here's how we compete with Duke and UNC." I mean, these coaches aren't stupid, and that's the obvious challenge for any candidate to address. It's also an easy out if you don't really want the job.

sagegrouse

Slackerb
04-06-2011, 11:45 AM
I'm just pointing out that all the media, including the DBR staff writers for the frontpage, keep saying that so-and-so coach turned down NC State. They're assuming it worked that way, and that may not be the case.

Most of them simply announced a new contract and that they are staying with their school. The only turned down offer that I know is confirmed is Shaka Smart. Who is to say that Marshall and/or Cronin were interviewed and turned down by State, or that they asked for too much money and the bargaining fell through....

elvis14
04-06-2011, 04:42 PM
In a lot of ways Gottfried is a pretty safe hire. I am not singing his praises or anything, but the Wolfpack alumni have untenable delusions of grandeur.

I have a lot of friends an co-workers who are State fans and alums and it's not been my impression that they have "untenable delusions of grandeur". Did they like Herb? Nope. They all knew that he was a guy that could get them some wins, get them into the first maybe second round of the tournament. I don't think any of them believed he could do more than just that. My friends just want a well run program that has a chance to compete. Heck, right now they'd be happy just being in the 2nd tier of the ACC. I tell them all the time I'd love for them to get better and get to the point where they are beating UNC.


Someone noted above it's a good hire if you're ok with 2nd tier in the ACC. Well, realistically, other than hitting a home run with a guy like Coach K when Duke hired him from Army (not an easy thing to do), State probably is looking for someone to get them to the top of the 2nd tier in the ACC. The top tier is Duke/UNC. Period.

This is exactly what I think. State needs to improve to the point where they are in that 2nd tier. Maybe MG is a guy that can get them there.


Well....I guess UM just found their true rival, after Yow just called out Gary in a BIG way at the presser.

Since I don't really like Sweat Gary Sweat I loved the fact that Yow addressed the issue and called out Gary.



I hope NCState gives the man a chance. They bashed Herb the last 2 years he was there. And he got the Wolfpack to the NCAA tourney, and the Sweet 16.

Did STATE fans, or AD Yow really believe that Shaka Smart would take the job this year?

I don't know about others but I never really liked watching Herb's teams play and I think the fans eventually got frustrated by the fact that the program was not getting any better. Hiring Lowe didn't help matters but, like this year's coaching search, it's not like he was the first choice.

I don't know if State fans believed it but looking at the list of coaches that everyone ASSUMES turned NCSU down, all I can think is that whether or not they believed it would happen, you still have to ask. State fans really wanted Miller but the one's I've talked to are disappointed but not surprised they didn't get him. As for SSmart, I think it's a good thing they didn't bring him in. For me, he still has a lot to prove. Seems like a good guy, I hope he succeeds and proves that he can win repeatedly.

weezie
04-06-2011, 04:51 PM
I just wonder about Yow. She comes off a being so thin-skinned and certainly, you have to have a rhino's hide to be an AD. It was a dismaying performance, calling out Gary. She's not very quick on her feet, imo.
Didn't make herself any friends, that's for sure. Gottfried must be furious at the overshadowing.
What a bungled performance.

wilko
04-06-2011, 04:53 PM
As for SSmart, I think it's a good thing they didn't bring him in. For me, he still has a lot to prove. Seems like a good guy, I hope he succeeds and proves that he can win repeatedly.

I tend to think that SSmart will be just fine.
Most Coaches labor their tails off to get to the F4. Not saying he didnt, but lets face it 4 weeks ago I had no clue who he was... Now if I know, recruits know...

Sure as shooting ought to make his recruiting a tad easier... Bringing in good players makes him look like much better coach...

A-Tex Devil
04-06-2011, 04:53 PM
I have a lot of friends an co-workers who are State fans and alums and it's not been my impression that they have "untenable delusions of grandeur". Did they like Herb? Nope. They all knew that he was a guy that could get them some wins, get them into the first maybe second round of the tournament. I don't think any of them believed he could do more than just that. My friends just want a well run program that has a chance to compete. Heck, right now they'd be happy just being in the 2nd tier of the ACC. I tell them all the time I'd love for them to get better and get to the point where they are beating UNC.

I guess I meant delusions in who they thought they could attract (Calipari and Barnes last time, Barnes and Sean Miller (Archie's presence notwithstanding) this time). I get going after Shaka Smart, but this is not 1984 anymore. It's not a premier program, and it's not a coveted job. Add that to the fact that "coaching in the ACC" isn't the lure it was just 10 years ago, and I think State fans should be happy with Gottfreid (and in their defense, it appears most of them are).

davekay1971
04-06-2011, 06:07 PM
Didn't make herself any friends, that's for sure.

Most of the State fans I know loved what she did. They'd all heard through media reports and the web about Gary possibly undermining the coaching search, and they were ticked. For Yow to openly blast him for it, they cheered her. Methinks Yow was playing for her constituents, and, from the small sample size of her constituents I know, it played very, very well.

Atlanta Duke
04-07-2011, 10:54 AM
In a column unfavaorably comparing the NC State hiring process to that recently concluded by Georgia Tech, Mark Bradley of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution adds this observation regarding the Gary Williams-Debbie Yow sidebar dispute

I’ve known Yow since 1976 — she was the coach of the Kentucky women’s team when I was a student there — and I like and respect her. And I know she had some issues with Williams. That said, how could you not?

Williams is a paranoiac of the first order.;)

http://blogs.ajc.com/mark-bradley-blog/2011/04/07/the-n-c-state-mess-makes-georgia-tech-look-better-still/

Fletch
04-07-2011, 12:01 PM
I find it interesting that many national media types and opposing fans blasted State fans for having the audacity to hope that a great coach would want to come to Raleigh, but then when State hires a good coach (b/c they could not hire the great coach) many of those same people continue the mocking.

Most State fans knew that Barnes, Miller, etc were not coming. They're in too good a situation to want to leave. That doesn't mean that we did not want to believe in the possibility of it happening -- you know? It's called a dream.

Once you get beyond the big names, I believe Gottfried is no worse than Marshall, Smart, or whomever. He coached at a major program for 10 years in addition to success at a mid-major. I think he can be a good coach for State and as a State fan I support him.

Slackerb
04-08-2011, 11:32 AM
Agree completely.

I'm not sure what's wrong with asking the likes of Barnes and Miller if they are interested...It's not delusional to try and fail at something. State fans that I know, myself included, hoped to get Miller, but didn't really expect any of the big names. The only surprise to me was getting rejected by Shaka Smart.

Is State supposed to go to Gregg Marshall or a Mike Cronin as it's first choice?

Also, I do think it's unfortunate that the Debbie vs. Gary situation came up now, and especially since it overwhelms State's coaching announcement, but is Debbie Yow supposed to sit there and be lambasted by the national media about how hard she is to work for?

IF Gary Williams did try to sabotage her search (and I've heard several sources say he did), what recourse does she have but to bring it to the attention of the media?

moonpie23
04-08-2011, 11:40 AM
i've heard through some contacts that frank martin was interested, but never got a call.....anyone know for sure?

just_wondering
04-08-2011, 05:16 PM
When you become AD at N.C. State

Exiled_Devil
04-08-2011, 06:02 PM
When you become AD at N.C. State

That's just dumb.

Yow just expressed what many had heard informally through twitter and reporters, not calling out some delusional misrepresentation of reality because she doesn't understand the rules of basketball.

Also, terping is blaming refs when you lise. Gottfreid isn't losing. He wasn't on the original list, but he is a good option and between him and Yow, won over a good number of State fans. The national media is another issue, but the national media has a stagnant narrative of NCSU being an ugly stepchild, just like they have a stagnant narrative that everyone enjoys cheering against the most popular basketball team in the country.

This should work out well for NCSU

sandinmyshoes
04-08-2011, 07:27 PM
It doesn't sound like Gary Williams was the only "paranoiac" in the Yow/Williams conflict.

On the other hand, she may be a genius. Her accusation has hit a sympathetic chord among the paranoid NCSU fan base and focused their attention on something besides their initial disappointment at the hiring of Gottfried.

howardlander
04-08-2011, 08:38 PM
IF Gary Williams did try to sabotage her search (and I've heard several sources say he did), what recourse does she have but to bring it to the attention of the media?

Well, she could have not said a word about, not undercut the coach she had just hired who was sitting next to her and not proven, at least to some extent, that whatever Gary Williams said about her was true. I have to tell you, that in my career, I have advised friends against working for certain people or certain companies. It's part of the business world that your reputation effects everything you do including recruiting. All I took from her comments about Williams, and honest to God I really could not care less about Gary Williams or Debbie Yow, was that she lacked professionalism and probably would not be someone I would want to work for. One other thing, if it's really true that she tried to gather money to force out Gary Williams, what did she expect his response to be?

Howard

throatybeard
04-10-2011, 12:01 AM
One other thing, if it's really true that she tried to gather money to force out Gary Williams, what did she expect his response to be?


I don't know if that's true, but if so, she's [even] less astute than I thought she was. The man is the third winningest coach EVER in ACC play. EVER. You probably don't have to guess much about who the two guys above him are.

Duvall
04-10-2011, 12:05 AM
I don't know if that's true, but if so, she's [even] less astute than I thought she was. The man is the third winningest coach EVER in ACC play. EVER. You probably don't have to guess much about who the two guys above him are.

And yet the program has been generally trending downward for the last decade, with 2010 being an exception. The ACC needs a strong program in College Park, and it doesn't look like it will get one until Williams retires.

BCGroup
04-10-2011, 02:43 PM
Given the discussion of Harrick in yesterday's N and O, I thought folks might enjoy revisiting the final exam his son gave to all the BB players who took his class. http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/quiz/_/id/600

Still just unbelievable. Quarters in a BB game.

Slackerb
04-10-2011, 09:44 PM
Well, she could have not said a word about, not undercut the coach she had just hired who was sitting next to her and not proven, at least to some extent, that whatever Gary Williams said about her was true.

It is one thing if you are called as a coach and asked about working under someone. It's entirely another if Gary called coaches, unsolicted, and told them what he thought. The latter is what I've heard the accusations are based on.

Specifically, that he talked with Shaka Smart before he made his decision about coming to State.

It was unfortunate timing, and I don't like that she brought it up at that time, but I do respect her for defending herself while under fire from the press.

I mean, watch the press conference. Two seperate reporters ask Gottfried about how Yow's reputation for "being hard to work for" affected his decision.

just_wondering
04-10-2011, 11:28 PM
For some time the Terps have had incredibly good fortune when playing the Wolfpack in football, men's basketball and in women's basketball. Yow left College Pack after losing a power struggle. That the Terps once again had their way with the Wolfpack this year surely stuck in her craw. It was all sour grapes.
Now is the time to switch permanent rivalries. Maryland with Va Tech and State makes more sense than Maryland with Duke and UVa.





It is one thing if you are called as a coach and asked about working under someone. It's entirely another if Gary called coaches, unsolicted, and told them what he thought. The latter is what I've heard the accusations are based on.

Specifically, that he talked with Shaka Smart before he made his decision about coming to State.

It was unfortunate timing, and I don't like that she brought it up at that time, but I do respect her for defending herself while under fire from the press.

I mean, watch the press conference. Two seperate reporters ask Gottfried about how Yow's reputation for "being hard to work for" affected his decision.

Acymetric
04-10-2011, 11:51 PM
For some time the Terps have had incredibly good fortune when playing the Wolfpack in football, men's basketball and in women's basketball. Yow left College Pack after losing a power struggle. That the Terps once again had their way with the Wolfpack this year surely stuck in her craw. It was all sour grapes.
Now is the time to switch permanent rivalries. Maryland with Va Tech and State makes more sense than Maryland with Duke and UVa.

To be clear, you're saying Yow called out Williams because Maryland beat State in football?

Highlander
04-11-2011, 09:05 AM
http://blogs.desmoinesregister.com/dmr/index.php/2011/04/08/heres-the-latest-on-isu-assistant-bobby-lutz/

Bobby Lutz was head coach of the UNCC 49'ers for about 10 years. He took them to the NCAA tourney 5 times during that span, but his recruiting fizzled when CUSA forced UNCC out in favor of schools who also played football. He's been at Iowa State.

Not a bad resume for an assistant coach IMO.

Slackerb
04-14-2011, 09:50 AM
Lutz is official.

With Orlando Early and Bobby Lutz already signed, how do you grade the staff so far?

I know who my next call would be: Dino Gaudio.

Slackerb
05-17-2011, 10:54 AM
Gottfried kept all of Lowe's recruits and now makes some noise with the Torian Graham, who among others was reportedly considering UNC.

A huge get, especially this early. And may be even more important if it leads to TJ Warren or Purvis for State.

Olympic Fan
05-17-2011, 11:13 AM
Gottfried kept all of Lowe's recruits and now makes some noise with the Torian Graham, who among others was reportedly considering UNC.

A huge get, especially this early. And may be even more important if it leads to TJ Warren or Purvis for State.

Agree that Graham is a great pickup for Gottfried.

But I don't think he actually kept all of Lowe's recruits. Last I heard, big man Joseph Uchebo had asked for and was granted his release.

... and, of course, Ryan Harrow bailed on the new coach too. I was told that was basically a reaction to Gottfried's determination to make Lorenzo Brown a point guard. The funny thing is, Lowe apparently came to the same conclusion and was planning to do the same.

theAlaskanBear
05-17-2011, 11:18 AM
Lutz is official.

With Orlando Early and Bobby Lutz already signed, how do you grade the staff so far?

I know who my next call would be: Dino Gaudio.

Well, Bobby Lutz will get no love from me as a game coach, but he knows the North Carolina recruiting territory pretty well. I think Gottfried will do a good job at NC State.

ThePublisher
05-17-2011, 11:34 AM
Yeah Uchebo is going elsewhere. If Got can pull a couple more top guys out of 2012, that'll be a heck of a start. Especially if he lands Purvis, which is seeming almost likely now.

Slackerb
05-18-2011, 02:33 PM
Doh, forgot about Uchebo, although I've heard the problem is more that he had academic problems and wasn't going to make it to State regardless.

And I've also heard that Harrow and Lowe didn't have the best relationship in the world and that Harrow was going to leave if Lowe had stayed.

He expected starter minutes all year, and those were slow to come. Add to the fact that his godbrother, Brown, actually looked better at the point, and it's no surprise really that Harrow left.

Anyways, heck of a splash in Gottfried's first few weeks on the job.


Yeah Uchebo is going elsewhere. If Got can pull a couple more top guys out of 2012, that'll be a heck of a start. Especially if he lands Purvis, which is seeming almost likely now.