Game of Thrones

[darthur]

Any other fans of the book out there who are super-excited about the upcoming TV version?

http://www.makinggameofthrones.com/

[Deslok]

Sort of. The promos I've seen look like they've put some serious effort into making it a worthwhile adaptation. But... well... it seems a bit premature since the darn books aren't close to finished. And Martin seems to be stepping further away from getting them done each day(month... year... whatever), and involving himself in this is one more delay to the next book, which was due to come out what, 2 years ago now?

[Blue in the Face]

Very excited about it. Every review I've seen has been very positive.

[Duvall]

Sort of. The promos I've seen look like they've put some serious effort into making it a worthwhile adaptation. But... well... it seems a bit premature since the darn books aren't close to finished.

To be fair, it'll take six or seven years just to adapt the books that are already written at HBO speed. If the series last that long, Martin should have plenty of time to stay ahead of the production.


And Martin seems to be stepping further away from getting them done each day(month... year... whatever), and involving himself in this is one more delay to the next book, which was due to come out what, 2 years ago now?

July 12 (http://www.amazon.com/Dance-Dragons-Song-Ice-Fire/dp/0553801473/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpt_4).

[theAlaskanBear]

I've never read the series, and I'm not a huge fantasy buff, but I enjoy Harry Turtledove and just finished his fantastic alt-history Great War series and need something to read. Heard a lot of buzz about the HBO series and have started the first book -- its pretty decent; about 200 pages in...his style is like Turtledove in that he jumps from character to character to show a larger view of whats going on.

[fuse]

Definitely excited but not excited enough to pay for HBO. I am hoping like The Tudors and Weeds it will hit Netflix.

More importantly, will George RR Martin ever finish what he started? The books are epic in scope but I'd like more to be published. Looks like the next one is due in July of this year- a six year wait.

-g

[bjornolf]

Yea, it's pretty bad (the wait for books, I mean). Not as bad as Jean Auel. who made her fans wait something like 9 years between books each time, but pretty bad. I'm definitely looking forward to the series on HBO, though.

[dukebluelemur]

...very positive.

This is supposed to be ironic right? Because these books are the most depressing downward spiral into unending misery I've read. Seriously, its like Lemony Snicket for adults.

Do yourself a favor guys and go read Patrick Rothfuss instead.

[ramdevil]

This is supposed to be ironic right? Because these books are the most depressing downward spiral into unending misery I've read. Seriously, its like Lemony Snicket for adults.



I loved the first book, but then the author just kept killing off every single likable character. I don't expect all the 'good guys' to survive, but to have all of them die? and all the 'bad guys' live? Not sure if I will go back to reading this series.

ramdevil

[Blue in the Face]

This is supposed to be ironic right?
I suppose you could investigate for yourself, but I've sensed no irony in what I've read about it. Nor do I personally find the books miserable.

[darthur]

I loved the first book, but then the author just kept killing off every single likable character. I don't expect all the 'good guys' to survive, but to have all of them die? and all the 'bad guys' live? Not sure if I will go back to reading this series.

ramdevil

I think you are exaggerating pretty badly. I can think of only a couple major likable characters who die through 4 books.
The villains actually do a heck of a lot worse.

As for misery, I join many, many others in saying my favorite TV show of all time is The Wire. Game of Thrones is definitely not as cruel as that.

[DukeUsul]

I found it kind of refreshing how many characters, good or bad, die throughout the books. Some authors seem very reluctant to do that.

[CLT Devil]

Anyone else watch the premiere and have thoughts they want to share?

I thought the sets, costumes and locations were awesome. Having not read the books I really did not know what to expect. For the most part by the end of the episode I was able to keep track of who was who and where they fit in, for instance Ned Stark has a bevy of children (perhaps one less) and it looks like they might play a large role in the series.

I know folks who have read the book will be able to follow the plots much easier and already know things that the rest of us will have to wait for (who are the White Walkers and why did we only see them at the beginning?) but I can see the promise. I don't think it is going to be a series my wife and I will both enjoy such as Deadwood, Sopranos but seems a little more like Carnival where you really have to pay close attention to get the most out of it.

Anyway, I was excited to see it coming out because I like LOTR and books/movies/shows of that nature. It even has Borromir which gave it instant credibility IMB. I'd love to hear what others have to say and start a discussion on the series.

[Duvall]

The New Yorker on Martin, his fans and fan entitlement (http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/04/11/110411fa_fact_miller).

I think I posted this on the right board, but I'm not sure.

[Mal]

Before the promos a few months back, I'd never heard of the books or their author, so I'm coming in extremely cold. Also not a huge fan of fantasy fiction. But I liked the pilot a good bit, and will watch again and expect that I'll enjoy this series a lot. This looks like it focuses a heck of a lot more on politics and the greyness and murkiness of morality and life among actual humans than most fantasy, which seems much more archetypal good vs. evil (and for me, ultimately unsatisfying because of it, LOTR notwithstanding).

It does seem like this has the potential to spiral out of control in terms of scope and characters, though. I'm a little confused by the geography, as well. And I was a little offput by the coincidence that the folks from the warm weather climate and with darker skin just so happened to be the ones looked down upon as barbaric and uncivilized and who brawl and kill each other and publicly fornicate at a wedding. If one can imagine an entire alternate universe, why have some particularly ugly stereotypes attached to the same geographical bounds as real Earth history?

I really liked the detail in the little things here - religious elements and rituals, architecture, clothing, social structure - that vary from the history with which we're familiar, and can see myself getting into what I imagine to be elaborate descriptions of them in the books. It seems like Martin created a well-thought out universe that's internally coherent, which will be fascinating by contrasting the differences, and noticing the similarities, it has with our own.

[DukeUsul]

Before the promos a few months back, I'd never heard of the books or their author, so I'm coming in extremely cold. Also not a huge fan of fantasy fiction. But I liked the pilot a good bit, and will watch again and expect that I'll enjoy this series a lot. This looks like it focuses a heck of a lot more on politics and the greyness and murkiness of morality and life among actual humans than most fantasy, which seems much more archetypal good vs. evil (and for me, ultimately unsatisfying because of it, LOTR notwithstanding).

It does seem like this has the potential to spiral out of control in terms of scope and characters, though. I'm a little confused by the geography, as well. And I was a little offput by the coincidence that the folks from the warm weather climate and with darker skin just so happened to be the ones looked down upon as barbaric and uncivilized and who brawl and kill each other and publicly fornicate at a wedding. If one can imagine an entire alternate universe, why have some particularly ugly stereotypes attached to the same geographical bounds as real Earth history?

I really liked the detail in the little things here - religious elements and rituals, architecture, clothing, social structure - that vary from the history with which we're familiar, and can see myself getting into what I imagine to be elaborate descriptions of them in the books. It seems like Martin created a well-thought out universe that's internally coherent, which will be fascinating by contrasting the differences, and noticing the similarities, it has with our own.

I've read all four books in the series, and many of your observations are apt. It's very much not the tired, traditional fantasy story. It does very much focus on the characters and the politics. And like you said, there isn't always a stark (ha ha) line between good and evil.

I didn't catch the start of the series, but I'll think I'll have to catch it on a repeat. I can't wait for the fifth book to (hopefully) come out this summer.

[darthur]

And I was a little offput by the coincidence that the folks from the warm weather climate and with darker skin just so happened to be the ones looked down upon as barbaric and uncivilized and who brawl and kill each other and publicly fornicate at a wedding. If one can imagine an entire alternate universe, why have some particularly ugly stereotypes attached to the same geographical bounds as real Earth history?

Like many of the things in the books, the answer is this universe is designed to very closely match our own. The Seven Kingdoms are pretty heavily inspired by medieval England, and the Dothraki are pretty heavily inspired by the Mongol legends.

I have no idea how realistic or unrealistic those Mongol legends are, but I think you'll find that the story becomes rather more sympathetic to (and respectful of) the Dothraki than it does to many of the "civilized" white characters. So hopefully, you'll enjoy their portrayal more as the show goes on.

[darthur]

Anyone else watch the premiere and have thoughts they want to share?

I thought the sets, costumes and locations were awesome. Having not read the books I really did not know what to expect. For the most part by the end of the episode I was able to keep track of who was who and where they fit in, for instance Ned Stark has a bevy of children (perhaps one less) and it looks like they might play a large role in the series.

I know folks who have read the book will be able to follow the plots much easier and already know things that the rest of us will have to wait for (who are the White Walkers and why did we only see them at the beginning?) but I can see the promise. I don't think it is going to be a series my wife and I will both enjoy such as Deadwood, Sopranos but seems a little more like Carnival where you really have to pay close attention to get the most out of it.

Anyway, I was excited to see it coming out because I like LOTR and books/movies/shows of that nature. It even has Borromir which gave it instant credibility IMB. I'd love to hear what others have to say and start a discussion on the series.

I loved it! I read the books and had watched all the trailers though so I knew exactly what to expect, and knew I'd love it :D.

[theAlaskanBear]

I enjoyed the premier, but I can see how it is difficult to follow. I have read all the books in the past two weeks. I think they could have done a little better job.

The kings visit was the perfect opportunity to clearly introduce the names of the Stark children. Overall I enjoyed it; its just little things that bother me -- like the opening sequence -- its not the young one who escapes to be beheaded, but the old cautious one.

Btw, the opening map sequence was great, I love it!

As to someones earlier comments about female characters, you will find that as the story goes on female characters take a larger role. I am on the 4th book right now, and virtually all the character perspectives are females. 6/8 more or less.

[theAlaskanBear]

Anyone actively watching this series?

The second episode was able to flesh out the characters a bit more and advanced the story to (almost) Kings Landing. I have been really impressed with the casting so far. Peter Dinklage as Tyrion Lannister (the dwarf) has really stolen the show thusfar. He is one of the best characters in the book and its apparent in the show.

The first couple of episodes are always akward because I have reconcile the appearance of the characters in my mind with those on the screen. Cercei, Tyrion, the Stark kids mesh almost perfectly with my preconceptions. Robert Baratheon (should be a little taller), Jaime Lannister (should be a little smaller, look more like his sister, long hair), Joffery (should be a little bigger -- want to see some youthful pudge and long hair) will take some getting used to. Sandor Clegane (the Dog -- Joff's gaurd) I had always pictured like Mark Strong but with a burnt face...I always pictured him bald -- he is my stock face for a bald guy with a dark character. Never pictured him with hair for some reason.

[SuperTurkey]

This is supposed to be ironic right? Because these books are the most depressing downward spiral into unending misery I've read. Seriously, its like Lemony Snicket for adults.

Do yourself a favor guys and go read Patrick Rothfuss instead.

Couldn't agree more. The Kingkiller series has been amazing so far, while Martin just writes darkness for the sake of darkness. He's the goth kid who got punched a lot in high school, and he wants all readers to know how much the world sucks.

[Duvall]

Per Martin's editor, the fifth book is done (http://sf-fantasy.suvudu.com/2011/04/yes-it-is-done-really.html).

[CLT Devil]

Is anyone else keeping up with this series?

I find it very watchable and not too hard to follow the many storylines. Lots happening over the last episode or two.

Anyway, just wanted to see if I was only one who thinks is a good Sunday night escape.

[davekay1971]

Is anyone else keeping up with this series?

I find it very watchable and not too hard to follow the many storylines. Lots happening over the last episode or two.

Anyway, just wanted to see if I was only one who thinks is a good Sunday night escape.

My wife and I are watching it. Some of the comments above about the direction of the series almost made me stay away, because why get invested in a series if it just devolves into misery? But, so far I've been entertained, and they've managed to make some of the characters who were originally just jerks (ie: Jaime Lannister) into sympathetic, well drawn characters. Plus the Targarian (sp?) dweeb getting the molten gold dumped on his head was worth every minute of the first 6 episodes, all by itself.

[Mal]

I'm in. Missed the episode this weekend, but the first half dozen have been really entertaining. I'm liking the strategy and politics and intrigue more than the dreariness and death, and look forward to seeing who allies with whom, which friendships splinter and which flourish, who actually wants the throne, etc. as things progress. I'm also finding most of the characters to be very interesting. It's a bit like a few notable predecessors on HBO in its depiction of shades of gray blanketing every character. The heroes are corrupted or co-opted by institutions, or tragically flawed, or arrogant, and practically all the villains are at least some shade of sympathetic, and some of the characters you still have no idea what side they're on. Even the dude who got gold dumped on his head and had been a complete horse's rear at all times up 'til then; at the end he came off as almost childlike and naive and sheltered. You totally wanted him to get his just reward but the actor made you almost feel a little pang of remorse.

Also, Peter Dinklage is hitting it out of the park. Such a good actor. I hope the Imp isn't one of the apparently many casualties of the cruel world these characters inhabit.

[davekay1971]

Also, Peter Dinklage is hitting it out of the park. Such a good actor. I hope the Imp isn't one of the apparently many casualties of the cruel world these characters inhabit.

With you on that. The Imp is my favorite character thus far...I think Game of Thrones' version of Entourage's Ari or Deadwood's Swearengen. Stark's younger daughter and Jon Snow are also favorites, but not nearly as entertaining and interesting as the Imp.

[JBDuke]

When I first picked up the books a couple of years ago on a friend's recommendation, they told me "Don't get too attached to any character, as Martin is not afraid to kill off any of them." Consider yourselves warned.

[Deslok]

I've been enjoying rereading the book as I've been watching, and its been a lot of fun noting some details. In the book, Renly's gay proclivities are hinted out, but not outright stated, whereas the show makes it plainly obvious. And then the HBO series hints at some of the struggles going through characters minds(I'm particularly thinking of Jon Snow up on the Wall, and Catelyn Stark's arrival at the Eyrie and confrontation with her sister) while the book fleshes out some of the things that are only hinted at on HBO.

But I think its been very well done so far(with the exception of one or two scenes that just seem to be thrown in to say "We're HBO and can do R rated stuff even if it doesn't do anything to advance the tale"... like the lesbian scene as Littlefinger speaks for awhile).

The characters are a lot of fun, and they did a good job of trying to add at least a little sympathy for the most unsympathetic characters in the book(that would be you Cersei and Sansa) while giving everyone else the shades of gray that dominate the tale.

And yes, even in the book, Tyrion Lannister is awesome, but Peter Dinklage is stealing the show so far.

[dukebluelemur]

But I think its been very well done so far(with the exception of one or two scenes that just seem to be thrown in to say "We're HBO and can do R rated stuff even if it doesn't do anything to advance the tale"... like the lesbian scene as Littlefinger speaks for awhile).


Dunno, Martin does pretty much the same thing. See: Wedding customs, involvement of male guests.

[Deslok]

Its been awhile since I've read the books(like oh... since the last one came out, which was almost back in the 20th century) so maybe I'm just not remembering those details, since other events surrounding weddings stood out more prominantly...

That and with a book, you can kind of gloss over a section you don't particularly enjoy as you go through, while watching it on TV... how long until this scene is done? And no, I have no tivo.

[darthur]

But I think its been very well done so far(with the exception of one or two scenes that just seem to be thrown in to say "We're HBO and can do R rated stuff even if it doesn't do anything to advance the tale"... like the lesbian scene as Littlefinger speaks for awhile).

I agree on both accounts. It's a shame because the Littlefinger scene is actually pretty clever - the entire speech is describing his relationship with Ned as much as it is describing anything with the prostitute. But the visuals sure were over the top.


And yes, even in the book, Tyrion Lannister is awesome, but Peter Dinklage is stealing the show so far.

Yep, although Arya is almost as good. Tyrion's "confession" was comic gold.

[Lord Ash]

Holy f'ing hell.

Okay, I have really enjoyed the show so far, knowing NOTHING about the book... but wow.

I have to say, was NOT happy with that ending...

*SPOILERS FROM THE LAST EPISODE HERE ON IN*









Come on. Sean Bean cannot be a lead without dying?! Come ON. I love the Beaner, and it is so irritating when one of the best actors in a show is killed off. My irritation has nothing to do with the story or character... I enjoy watching Bean act, I always have, and I am annoyed that he will not be on the show anymore. Dammit.

Still, very enjoyable show. Yeah, the actor who plays Tyrion Lannister is GREAT... really deep, very funny, a lot of charisma... one of the highlights of the show.

They better not kill him off. The youngest daughter, either; I like pain in the rear end scrappy girls with attitude!:)


Great show so far, with one of the best intros HBO has ever had. Glad they picked up the second season.

[darthur]

Holy f'ing hell.

Okay, I have really enjoyed the show so far, knowing NOTHING about the book... but wow.

I have to say, was NOT happy with that ending...

Not trying to endorse physical violence applied to children, but you can always console yourself by thinking back to these happy days:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxLOXUGmRKI =)

When people talk about shocking deaths in this series, this is certainly the #1.

[theAlaskanBear]

Not trying to endorse physical violence applied to children, but you can always console yourself by thinking back to these happy days:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxLOXUGmRKI =)

When people talk about shocking deaths in this series, this is certainly the #1.

When I was reading the books -- I thought, oh thats clever...the author lets him take the black so he joins his son on the wall and they save the north...because the Starks are intertwined with the history of the wall. That's why their words are "Winter is Coming." And then he dies anyway...and I was like oh (daaaaarn).

It's also one of the few points in the book that make Cersei look sympathetic -- she knows what is at stake here, and her bratty son just started a civil war despite being told the right thing to do.

[AtlBluRew]

That death surprised me, too. What great writing, though: a man who had lived honorably all his life makes a deal to violate that code of honor in order to protect his child ... and dies immediately. His last act was completely against his character. Loved it.

There's a lot of really good acting going on in this series. I think we can add to the list the kid playing King Joffrey. He's really a villain.

[A-Tex Devil]

Gut wrenching. I've amazingly gotten my girlfriend into this this series, and she was sobbing.

There is a very, very funny reaction vid on you tube and a video review by the same guy. A little too NSFW to link here, but you can find it if you search for "Larry Williams" and "Game of Thrones". The reaction vid his friend shot is better and shorter, but he is seriously distraught in his review (which is a longer 12 minutes).

[Mal]

Yeah. I mean, wow. To make a show based on a book knowing that you have to kill off the moral center of the show IN SEASON ONE? Kudos, HBO, kudos.

I knew it was going to happen at some point fairly soon - the foreshadowing of Ned's doom was everywhere - but that was pretty shocking. Almost as shocking is the fact that, despite the spoilery admonitions of "don't get attached to any of these characters, as the author's not afraid to kill off literally any of them" that were everywhere, and the millions of people who've read the books, the lid was still generally kept on this crazy twist of events.

The cathartic glee we'll all feel when (hopefully) Joffrey meets a gruesome end will hopefully match this. And really, that has to happen soon, right? That sociopathic fool just assured every person in the North wants his head, possibly ensured the death of his now captured real father, just as his grandfather/protector was busy getting outstrategized and is now outnumbered by Robb Stark, and while his not-real uncles are off in the other direction plotting how to take the throne. And he's publicly demonstrated his viciousness to the populace, which won't be sympathetic to him now. Not to mention having someone like Ned Stark to help command at the Wall might have come in handy, now that there are zombies and whatever else coming out of the woods. I hope this kid's screwed.

Lord Ash, you'll be both delighted and groan to hear this: Bean's starring in a new ABC show (if you can stomach network dramas) with Ashley Judd, so if it catches on you'll get to see him regularly on a U.S. show again. The irony: his character's ALREADY dead, and appears only in flashback throughout the series! Ha! I guess the good news is he can't get killed off.

[Duvall]

The cathartic glee we'll all feel when (hopefully) Joffrey meets a gruesome end will hopefully match this. And really, that has to happen soon, right? That sociopathic fool just assured every person in the North wants his head, possibly ensured the death of his now captured real father, just as his grandfather/protector was busy getting outstrategized and is now outnumbered by Robb Stark, and while his not-real uncles are off in the other direction plotting how to take the throne. And he's publicly demonstrated his viciousness to the populace, which won't be sympathetic to him now. Not to mention having someone like Ned Stark to help command at the Wall might have come in handy, now that there are zombies and whatever else coming out of the woods. I hope this kid's screwed.

Well, bear in mind that the public doesn't care about any of this except in how it affects them directly, and that the Lannisters still have a much larger army and unlimited resources. I wouldn't count them out just yet.


Lord Ash, you'll be both delighted and groan to hear this: Bean's starring in a new ABC show (if you can stomach network dramas) with Ashley Judd, so if it catches on you'll get to see him regularly on a U.S. show again. The irony: his character's ALREADY dead, and appears only in flashback throughout the series!

That's amazing.

[Mal]

Well, bear in mind...that the Lannisters still have a much larger army and unlimited resources. I wouldn't count them out just yet.

Can't quibble with the resources part, but are we sure the Lannisters have just a larger, not even a much larger, force right now? I think it was stated that Tywin gave Jaime half his army, 30,000 men. Those 30,000 have been wiped out now (or sent home, or whatever it is that happens to such an army after being defeated in that fictional world, but taken off the board anyway). Granted, it's possible however many survived Robb's surprise attack could be re-armed and sent back out there by whoever's back manning Casterly (?) Rock, but they'd have no military leaders. Meanwhile, the army from the North is presumably about to join forces with the soldiers of the Riverlands. By my reckoning, Robb had 18,000, lost 2,000, and picked up about 4,000 from Frey to bring his forces to 20,000. All he needs is another 10,000 from his grandfather and he's got the numerical advantage, right? All they need to do now is send a nice keg of milk over to the Aerie and get the Vale behind them and the Lannisters are in seriously hot water, I would think.

Anyway, I'm not counting them out. I'm just saying that at best, the Lannister forces are in for a prolonged fight somewhere out in the Riverlands at this point, leaving the capitol relatively unguarded against the brothers of former kings, dragons, zombies and whatever else might threaten his royal smugness.

[darthur]

Can't quibble with the resources part, but are we sure the Lannisters have just a larger, not even a much larger, force right now? I think it was stated that Tywin gave Jaime half his army, 30,000 men.

And that doesn't even include Tyrion's barbarians! :D

[davekay1971]

I know he had no choice, given his daughter being in the hands of the undeniably ruthless Lannisters, but I really hurt me to see Ned break his honor and speak out for Joffre. Granted that's probably what a man in his position would do in real life, but still...it would have been much more satisfying for him to stand in front of the world as if about to "confess", only to turn, point his finger at Joffre, and say, "That ain't the real king. That's nothing but the product of some naaaasty incest between Queenie there and her brother (no, not the short one)." Followed by the collective "Ewwwww" from the assembled multitude of peasantry (we know they're not royalty in the crowd...because they do have &^*# all over them). But, alas, Ned signed his own death warrant when he told Cersei that he knew her dirty little secret. Noble, but this series clearly values cleverness over nobility and honor.

It's going to be a hard wait after this season ends for next season. The author is very clearly putting the realm into one heck of a civil war, with the Lannisters, Starks, Stannis's peeps, Doth-racky (however you spell that) and lord knows who else slugging it out, all while some horrendous threat is about to come spilling over under or straight through that Wall.

[Reisen]

This thread is fun for me. It was here I first even heard about the series, and the "pre-game" discussion of the book(s), including the "Be careful about getting too attached" warnings.

I went out and bought the first one, mentioned it to my wife, and we started reading it together (well, at different times, but in the same timespan). One of us pulls ahead, then the other passes them when they get busy.

I've also downloaded them through Audible.com to allow me to continue "reading" while driving on a bunch of trips up and down the East Coast I've been making. Not as good as the real thing (reading), but still fun and let's you get your fix.

I'm midway through the third book now, so way ahead of the series, but it's fun to read the comments and see everyone's reaction (the same one I had) when Ned Stark dies. I'll try to keep from mentioning anything not already covered in the show, because so much happens it would be really easy to get spoiled on one plot line or another.

In terms of the army argument, things continue to change throughout the series, but at this point, I still think it's safe to assume the Lannisters have the larger army. Some of Jaime's men almost surely rejoined with Tywin's main force. They also have whatever is garrisoned at King's Landing. I think Tyrion's barbarians are only about 300, though. I feel like the Gold Cloaks are maybe 2 or 3,000, although that's more a guard than a true army.

I, too, loved the fact they killed off Ned Stark. It really brought a lot to the book, and the change of focus on the characters and their reactions was interesting. Martin continues to throw big shake-ups at the reader at least to the point where I am, and one of the things I love about this series is there is very, very little downtime. One of the most frustrating parts about reading it, and probably, soon, watching it, is you get huge cliffhangers, then have to follow a dozen other story lines before the cliffhanger gets resolved. I often skip ahead 6 or 8 chapters in the book to continue one storyline for a chapter or two, then bounce back to catch up on the rest. It actually works, as you have a bunch of mini-stories going on with the occasional interaction.

[Blue in the Face]

To be fair, Joffrey didn't have much choice - Sean Bean sounds like someone not to be trifled with (http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2011/06/14/game-thrones-actor-sean-bean-stabbed-following-spat-over-playboy-model-report/).


British actor Sean Bean was stabbed in the arm following a spat over a Playboy model outside a bar in London. Witnesses said Bean, 52, suffered a cut arm and a bruised face but did not want to go to hospital. He instead walked back into the bar and ordered another drink.

[Deslok]

One of the aspects I liked of the confession, that really played to Ned's honor was that for the first half of the confession, he did not utter a word that was untrue. I don't remember the exact wording, but confessing that even as Robert was dying, he plotted to take the throne from Robert's intended heir and rule in his stead(until Stannis could come and take the throne). It had me for a moment wondering if he could get through the entire confession without saying an untrue word, but alas, it was not to be. But that just brings to mind(for those who read the books) what his words have meant regarding another large part of the story line that is still unresolved in the books(that's as unspoilering as I can be while still alluding to something specific I think).

I also thought the depiction of the witch healer was interesting, with some diversion from the book I'll talk more about next week(again, spoiler free).

But its definitely started off with a bang, looking forward to how they get things to play out(and getting Martin to finish off the storylines within the time frame of HBO producing the whole dang thing).

[A-Tex Devil]

I've been reading the book BEHIND the TV show (then watched most of the episodes again with my gf). I have enjoyed this method, but I am not sure I can wait a year to start into book two. I have a few chapters to go in book 1 (going to read them after I watch the show), then we'll have to see.

The TV show has done a good job of picking spots to deviate from the book (with a few exceptions). I thought how Drogo got wounded was definitely one of them. I didn't like, however, how the story of the Mountain and the Hound was told. The Hound has more depth in the book, partly because he tells Sansa the story and becomes a bit sympathetic. In the show, it's just Mayor Carcetti whispering in Sansa's ear.

[cato]

I am not sure I can wait a year to start into book two.

Ha! [/bitter, sarcastic laugh]

[darthur]

Bring on season 2!

[davekay1971]

Bring on season 2!

Seriously! The ending was great, but next spring is a long way off! Loved Daenerys Targarian's character arc and her transformation at the end - she's a baaaaad woman and is clearly not to be messed with. Season 2 looks to be great. Bravo to HBO for taking on the series and bravo to the actors, directors, and production team for really hitting it out of the park. Unlike LOTR and Harry Potter which I read and reread before seeing on screen, the HBO version of GOT is my only exposure to the story, and I'm loving it!

[A-Tex Devil]

Seriously! The ending was great, but next spring is a long way off! Loved Daenerys Targarian's character arc and her transformation at the end - she's a baaaaad woman and is clearly not to be messed with. Season 2 looks to be great. Bravo to HBO for taking on the series and bravo to the actors, directors, and production team for really hitting it out of the park. Unlike LOTR and Harry Potter which I read and reread before seeing on screen, the HBO version of GOT is my only exposure to the story, and I'm loving it!

So which famous actor plays Stannis? They should have some cash left now that Sean Bean is gone.

[Deslok]

So which famous actor plays Stannis? They should have some cash left now that Sean Bean is gone.

Spend the money on Melisandre. An adequate Stannis will still have the storyline moving, but I think Melisandre will be a harder character to get right and not be a little disconcerting. Plus, do you really want to see R'hllor ticked off?

[Mal]

Spend the money on Melisandre. An adequate Stannis will still have the storyline moving, but I think Melisandre will be a harder character to get right and not be a little disconcerting. Plus, do you really want to see R'hllor ticked off?

I know it's completely unintentional, but that post is kinda spoilery. For those of us who've never even heard of that particular character, we now know she (I assume) is a significant player full of nuance. Other characters have been introduced on the show and don't return or die in five minutes or have no actual story arc or characterization, but now we can't wonder as much for that one. They could still die within a season, though, I suppose. :)

[Duvall]

I know it's completely unintentional, but that post is kinda spoilery. For those of us who've never even heard of that particular character, we now know she (I assume) is a significant player full of nuance. Other characters have been introduced on the show and don't return or die in five minutes or have no actual story arc or characterization, but now we can't wonder as much for that one. They could still die within a season, though, I suppose. :)

One way to fix that.

[Duvall]

Come on. Sean Bean cannot be a lead without dying?! Come ON.

Sean Bean death reel (http://www.pajiba.com/videos/the-sean-bean-death-reel.php).

(Spoilers for many, many films.)

[Duvall]

Spend the money on Melisandre. An adequate Stannis will still have the storyline moving, but I think Melisandre will be a harder character to get right and not be a little disconcerting. Plus, do you really want to see R'hllor ticked off?

Casting updates (Links basically spoiler-free):

Stannis Baratheon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Dillane)
Melisandre of Asshai (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carice_van_Houten)
Brienne of Tarth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gwendoline_Christie)
Margaery Tyrell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natalie_Dormer)
Davos Seaworth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liam_Cunningham_(actor))

[mpj96]

Do yourself a favor guys and go read Patrick Rothfuss

That was a great suggestion even though I liked the Game of Thrones series. Any others?

[darthur]

That was a great suggestion even though I liked the Game of Thrones series. Any others?

Well I'm not dukebluelemur, but maybe you would enjoy Mistborn? The writing is only so-so, but the pacing and plot are really good. It's my favorite fantasy of the last several years, although I'm about to start Rothfuss, so maybe that will change if he's as good as people say :).

[davekay1971]

Ditto on Rothfuss. I'm very impressed. The Name of the Wind is about the best fantasy I've read this side of LOTR. Frankly, it's better written, but LOTR is the foundation of my love of fantasy and therefore irreplaceable at the top of the mountain.

[mpj96]

Well I'm not dukebluelemur, but maybe you would enjoy Mistborn? The writing is only so-so, but the pacing and plot are really good. It's my favorite fantasy of the last several years, although I'm about to start Rothfuss, so maybe that will change if he's as good as people say :).

Thanks for the recommendation. Mistborn series was a lot of fun. Not to divert the thread too much but if you have others keep them coming.

Back on topic, I've read all of the game of thrones books that are out now, but don't bother to pay for HBO and it's not on Netflix. Has the 2nd season started? Is it as well done as the 1st?

[davekay1971]

Season 2 premiered last weekend and the first episode of this season was, indeed, every bit as well done as last season. Tyrion was not on screen enough for my taste...he's the Al Swearengen/Ari of this series. But they had a lot of threads to pick up and start moving forward, so it was understandably kind of jumping from character to character.

I'm glad that I've avoided spoilers as much as possible for this series. I know just enough to know that the main characters are not necessarily going to live through the whole series. But it's nice to get to really enjoy the development of the characters, knowing that there really isn't anyone who's "safe". And it's nice to be uncertain where these many plot and character arcs are going to go. It's a very different feeling than watching the LOTR movies where the main question was how the director was going to pull off certain scenes - would Jackson be able to capture the absolute coolness of Moria, or the charge of the Rohirrim, or Shelob's Lair (yes, yes, and yes), or make us really feel the grinding suffering that Sam and Frodo endured in Mordor (no).

My main interest this season is to watch the difference between Ned's struggles to deal with the manipulations and politics of King's Landing, compared to what I expect will be Tyrion's masterful handling of that same environment.

[darthur]

Thanks for the recommendation. Mistborn series was a lot of fun. Not to divert the thread too much but if you have others keep them coming.

Hmmm, here are some sci-fi/fantasy I have read recently that I've really enjoyed:

- Ender's Game and Speaker for the Dead by Orson Scott Card (although I think the series is mediocre after these two)
- The Golden Compass trilogy by Philip Pullman
- The Long Run by Daniel Keys Moran (hard to find except on Kindle though)
- The Sandman graphic novels, The Graveyard Book, and Good Omens by Neil Gaiman (I like these more than American Gods and the other stuff he is famous for now)
- Way of Kings by Brandon Sanderson, but it's book 1 of a huge series so reader be warned!
- On the pulpy side, I also love everything by Timothy Zahn. Maybe Icarus Hunt is my favorite?

By the way, I'm really enjoying Rothfuss. That was an excellent recommendation! If any of you have more suggestions, I would love to hear them too :).

[darthur]

Season 2 premiered last weekend and the first episode of this season was, indeed, every bit as well done as last season. Tyrion was not on screen enough for my taste...he's the Al Swearengen/Ari of this series.

Well, if my memory of the books serves, we should be seeing lots more of Tyrion this season!

[davekay1971]

Good to hear. I'm very much looking forward to the episode tonight. I obviously have no idea how the series will go, and maybe this is too obvious a twist, but I'm already hoping to see Tyrion on the Iron Throne when all is said and done.

As for the books you mentioned, darthur, I heartily endorse Enders Game. It's a really remarkable book. Speaker was almost as good but, you are right, the rest of the series (and, IMHO, the rest of Card's books) never quite reached the level of Enders Game. One of the top few Sci Fi books I've ever read.

[ncexnyc]

I managed to land a set of Season 1 DVD's and they arrived in Friday's mail. The wife and son had a party to attend so after a quick supper I started watching by myself. I watched and I watched. Even after they returned from the party the viewing session continued. By 5:30 AM it was over. Ten fantastic episodes in one awesome sitting.

Since I already have Showtime and am a big Dexter, Homeland, and The Borgias fan, I won't be springing for HBO, so it's going to be a very, very long time till the Season 2 DVD's comeout, but I will definitely shellout for another go round.

[Peterson]

The Hyperion novels by Dan Simmons. Certainly my favorite book(s) of all time. I've read the four novels multiple times, and still end up openly crying at certain sections of the last book.

I've read most of the books recommended in this thread, and these are still by far my favorite.

On a side note, Simmons has also tried to transcend genre by releasing a bunch of other types of stories (horror, detective, historical fiction). The horror novel I've read was pretty good (probably similar enough to scifi/fantasy to not make a big difference), but I just read Black Hills, which was just painful. I found it interesting that an authors can be some amazing in one genre, but just awful in another...

[A-Tex Devil]

Anyone watching? Without getting into details because I don't remember the ground rules of this thread, but the show is starting to take some huge deviations from the book. Two characters were introduced last night, one completely different in personality from the book, the other basically a replacement character (or so it appears thus far). I am generally fine with all of them thus far, but they'll need to play out before I'll necessarily agree that they work.

And who knew the Lost smoke monster came from Melisandre's hoo-ha?

[Duvall]

Anyone watching? Without getting into details because I don't remember the ground rules of this thread, but the show is starting to take some huge deviations from the book. Two characters were introduced last night, one completely different in personality from the book, the other basically a replacement character (or so it appears thus far). I am generally fine with all of them thus far, but they'll need to play out before I'll necessarily agree that they work.

It's worth noting that we've just met these characters, and have little reason to think they are telling the truth about who they are.

[davekay1971]

I read Book 1 after season 1 and promptly decided I will continue to not read the books after the season is complete. I very much enjoyed watching season 1 of Game of Thrones and then reading the book. I think if I read the book and then watched the season it would irritate me when I watched the show. Deviations are, to some extent, inevitable, and tend to frustrate when the book is very good in its own right.

Tyrion continues to impress. More every episode. And it was interesting and suprising to see the twist that led Tywin to both save Baratheon's kid and take Arya into his service.

I really want to stay away from spoilers, because the few big plot developments I know about coming up (the Red Wedding (refraining from specifics so as not to provide spoilers for anyone else)) are one's that I'd rather not know about.

Very much enjoying this series...IMHO the best HBO series since Deadwood.

[Lord Ash]

Woof, pretty brutal episode. The wife actually had to "do something else" during parts of it so she wasn't paying full attention. And was I the only one who thought that Geoffrey was thinking something much, much worse with that stag scepter thing?

Love Tyrion, and glad to know he'll be around a while. He is, as someone sad, the Al Swearengen of this show.

Arya Stark is now the cupbearer for the Lannisters? Oh, that is RICH. I really am looking forward to some good stuff there.

Disappointed in Greyback turning on the Starks... I had high hopes for that boy.

Overall good stuff!

[dukefanSD]

No, you weren't the only one who thought they were going there. My first thought was "No way! This is a brutal show, but c'mon." I don't remember that scene from the books, but they are loooong and it's been a while. I do remember the Melisandre "giving birth" scene from the book. I kind of like how some of the stuff is different or more fleshed out on the tv version. There are some characters like Margaery who barely speak in the book and I had a hard time picturing her. It will be interesting to see how her character reacts to the upcoming events if they stay true to the books. I can't wait til Sunday night!

[Lord Ash]

Glad I wasn't the only one; I too thought 'Oh okay this show is brutal, but are they REALLY going there?!' Glad they didn't. Apparently that part was not in the books.

The birth scene was awesome... whatever that thing was, it looked so fantastically unnatural and evil and horrible... and I just don't get who is going to be able to fight that thing, you know? Doesn't seem like something a sword or an axe can stop.

I, like you, am looking forward to it. I so want to read the books!:)

[darthur]

Glad I wasn't the only one; I too thought 'Oh okay this show is brutal, but are they REALLY going there?!' Glad they didn't. Apparently that part was not in the books.

The birth scene was awesome... whatever that thing was, it looked so fantastically unnatural and evil and horrible... and I just don't get who is going to be able to fight that thing, you know? Doesn't seem like something a sword or an axe can stop.

I, like you, am looking forward to it. I so want to read the books!:)

Don't mess with Melisandre! Even if she is supporting a ham :)...

[riverside6]

Glad I wasn't the only one; I too thought 'Oh okay this show is brutal, but are they REALLY going there?!' Glad they didn't. Apparently that part was not in the books.

The birth scene was awesome... whatever that thing was, it looked so fantastically unnatural and evil and horrible... and I just don't get who is going to be able to fight that thing, you know? Doesn't seem like something a sword or an axe can stop.

I, like you, am looking forward to it. I so want to read the books!:)

My wife's response to the birth scene "so that is where the smoke monster came from".

[darthur]

You guys still watching? I really, really liked tonight's episode.

- Loved the Hound, Cersei and Joffrey each breaking down in their own way.
- Loved the Rains of Castamere and how it was used. It is referred to several times in the books and it was great to actually hear it.
- Loved Sansa's quiet anger towards Tyrion and her manipulation of Joffrey.

[davekay1971]

Great episode last night. I watched it at 9:00 and rewatched most of it at 11:00.

Some of the things I'm enjoying...

1) Obviously Tyrion. Peter Dinklage deserves whatever awards he gets for his performance. He is absolutely great in every scene. I've done my best to avoid knowing too much about the way this story will unfold, but I did check the internet to see if the Imp was still around through the remaining books that Martin has written to date. To avoid spoilers for others who prefer to be in the dark, I'll defer from revealing what I've found.

2) Sansa, who was one of my least favorite characters in Season 1, and her growth. I'm not sure how her character arc plays out, but she's starting to show some real inner strength, and I'll be curious to see how she grows as a character and person. The actress playing her gave probably her best performance of the series so far in last night's episode.

3) Arya. Missed not seeing that clever girl last night. Hope she has some screen time in the season finale. The Lannisters should be afraid of that girl growing up.

4) The willingness and ability of the series to develop depth in all these characters. There's something about most of the characters you can sympathise with, and something about many to hate. That almost took away from the battle for me last night, because, unlike LOTR, where you really wanted one side to win, last night I was somewhat ambivalent. I wanted Tyrion to be victorious, but that meant Joffrey would be as well. I wanted Ser Davos Seaworth to do well, but that would mean victory for Stannis, who's only redeeming quality so far is that he likes dogs. Still, that ambivalence is a fair price to pay for seeing so many characters so well fleshed out with their good and bad aspects, their strengths and weaknesses, and the interesting relationships (like Tywin's fondness for Arya, or the Hound's soft side where Sansa is concerned).

[JNort]

Ya'll still watching this? New season is on and about to air the third episode I think. I am in season 2 right now and am considering buying the books.

[davekay1971]

Ya'll still watching this? New season is on and about to air the third episode I think. I am in season 2 right now and am considering buying the books.

Definitely watching it. My wife is so into it that she gets all excited for Sunday night just to get together on the couch after the kids are in bed and watch GoT. So far so great with season 3.

I am buying the books, but I'm waiting until the end of each season to buy the corresponding book. As always, the book goes into more detail and more depth and is subtly different, so I have a strong feeling that reading the book before watching the season would take away significantly from the viewing experience...while there's enough extra in the books that reading the book after watching the season is a fun "oh, wow that explains some more of what I saw" experience. Book 1 and Book 2 were both really fun reads after watching the show.

[AncientPsychicT]

Definitely watching it. My wife is so into it that she gets all excited for Sunday night just to get together on the couch after the kids are in bed and watch GoT. So far so great with season 3.

I am buying the books, but I'm waiting until the end of each season to buy the corresponding book. As always, the book goes into more detail and more depth and is subtly different, so I have a strong feeling that reading the book before watching the season would take away significantly from the viewing experience...while there's enough extra in the books that reading the book after watching the season is a fun "oh, wow that explains some more of what I saw" experience. Book 1 and Book 2 were both really fun reads after watching the show.

Good policy, but be careful after this season. Book 3 is so long that they're splitting it essentially in twain. If you want to keep up what you're doing, you'll have to stop halfway through. That said, without giving anything away, the point you'll have to stop at is an emotionally charged moment that makes most readers of A Storm of Swords put the book down for a few days at least, so you shouldn't have too much trouble with it. ;)

[JNort]

I've gotten so into it that I can't wait for the next episodes so I want to buy the books! But I feel you are right and it will diminish the show if I read ahead. O my what to do

[davekay1971]

Jaime Lannister says, "Ouch...that's gonna leave a mark."

[bjornolf]

I've gotten so into it that I can't wait for the next episodes so I want to buy the books! But I feel you are right and it will diminish the show if I read ahead. O my what to do

I have the best of both worlds. I read them, but long enough ago that Watching the shows brings back memories, but my memories aren't ruining the show for me.

[JNort]

Did everyone watch the new episode (S3 E9)!!! I have never in my life been more traumatized over a show in my life. SPOILERS






How can you just kill off Robb Stark like that? I mean he had no glory or honor in his death and it was unjustified! Also his pregnant wife and child are killed and slowly at that! Not to mention his mom dying the same way and a good part of his army! O I also forgot his wolf! G. Martin did not only make a twist and turn in the series, he completely stopped and went in a whole new direction!

[DBFAN]

It's been 3 hrs since I watched it and I am still very depressed God I hate the Lannisters

[davekay1971]

Poor Arya's got more names to add to her list...

"King Joffrey. Cercei Lannister. The Hound. Tywin Lannister. Roose Bolton. Walder Frey..."

That was gruesome and very sad. I found the detail of Robb's wife being stabbed in her abdomen, the direct attack against the baby, with her living long enough to realize that they killed her baby first, to be particularly disturbing. It made perfect sense, given Frey's anger over Robb's oath breaking, and given how evil Frey apparently is, that he would instruct his killers to attack the product of Robb's broken oath first. But still...it was incredibly disturbing to watch.

Martin's been pretty good, even if he takes his time about it, giving us some satisfaction in seeing the bad guys get theirs (or, in the case of Theon, lose his). After last night's episode, I'm hoping we get to see Walder Frey and Roose Bolton get theirs as well...

[DukeHoo]

I read the books, so I knew what this episode had in store. The Wedding is one of the most brutal things I've seen. My only bit of disappointment was that I was hoping that the Lannister Honeypot theory (a theory floating around the internet that Robb's wife Talisa was a Lannister spy, partially to explain the character change) didn't turn out to be true.

[Duvall]

I read the books, so I knew what this episode had in store. The Wedding is one of the most brutal things I've seen. My only bit of disappointment was that I was hoping that the Lannister Honeypot theory (a theory floating around the internet that Robb's wife Talisa was a Lannister spy, partially to explain the character change) didn't turn out to be true.

Huh? Was there anything last night to suggest that it was true?

[cato]

Did everyone watch the new episode (S3 E9)!!! I have never in my life been more traumatized over a show in my life. SPOILERS






How can you just kill off Robb Stark like that? I mean he had no glory or honor in his death and it was unjustified! Also his pregnant wife and child are killed and slowly at that! Not to mention his mom dying the same way and a good part of his army! O I also forgot his wolf! G. Martin did not only make a twist and turn in the series, he completely stopped and went in a whole new direction!

Well, now people who are watching the shows, but didn't read the books, might understand the reason I stopped watching after about 1/2 of the first episode. I just don't have the stomach to live through these types of things twice.

[DukeHoo]

Huh? Was there anything last night to suggest that it was true?

No, that was part of why it was a disappointment to me. It was a good fan theory that had just enough evidence to seem plausible (though not likely), and would have better justified the decision to change Robb Stark's wife.

[AncientPsychicT]

MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA!!!!!!!!





In all fairness though, the Cat/Robb storyline, in both the books and the show, always felt like one of the weaker storylines to me. I actually don't mind that much that they've been offed; it gives us more time to spend with Daenerys, Arya, Jamie, and Tyrion (and the Dornish!!). What got me in the books was the way Walder Frey (and Roose Bolton) went about their treachery. The Freys violated an ancient Westerosi custom called "guest right" (can't kill guest/host once food has been served, unless you want the gods to smite you painfully), and Roose Bolton made an obvious power grab (since everyone believes Bran and Rickon to be dead, Roose will be head honcho up North; thanks Theon!). Anyway, I've long felt that the Red Wedding is about identifying and establishing villains as opposed to offing heroes.

I have long anticipated this scene to see how they would film it. I thought the decision to keep most of the slaughter from the perspective of Catelyn was a wise choice (in the book, this scene occurs during a Catelyn POV chapter). Catelyn quickly growing alarmed at the succession of suspicious events (closing the door, the song switch, etc.) despite the oblivious merriment of the rest of the Stark brigade was simultaneously devastating and brilliant. And of course, that last desperate sequence with the wife was exceptional.

"I'll find another" <-- perhaps Walder Frey's most chilling quote, for a multitude of reasons. (referring to his wife, of course)

[Lord Ash]

How on earth there hasn't been more discussion of this show on this forum baffles me.

What an episode. Wow. I think it left a lot of people straight up traumatized.

[darthur]

Martin's been pretty good, even if he takes his time about it, giving us some satisfaction in seeing the bad guys get theirs (or, in the case of Theon, lose his). After last night's episode, I'm hoping we get to see Walder Frey and Roose Bolton get theirs as well...

Having read all the books, I agree with this sentiment. Plenty of bad things happen to good people in GoT, but there are some very satisfying comeuppances too. And he does it in interesting ways: e.g. Jaime's lost hand.

[davekay1971]

Having read all the books, I agree with this sentiment. Plenty of bad things happen to good people in GoT, but there are some very satisfying comeuppances too. And he does it in interesting ways: e.g. Jaime's lost hand.

I'm reading each book after the corresponding season, but assuming the major aspects of the character portrayals and major events in the series remain reasonably close to the book, he also seems interested in rehabilitating certain characters (or, at least making some villains a little more sympathetic). I've started to really like Jaime in this season, whereas in season 1 I thought of him as one of the primary villains in the story. The soft spot that the Hound has for the Stark girls also makes me like him much more than I originally did.

I'm not quite able to forgive Jaime for dropping Bran out of a window...attempting to murder a young boy to save your own skin isn't something that's easy to forgive...but I'm certainly enjoying seeing his character become more human, and lose some of his arrogance.

[AncientPsychicT]

I'm reading each book after the corresponding season

Careful with season 3! This TV season has only really covered the first half of the book, and in doing so it has played with the order of some storylines, so if you don't want to spoil yourself, be sure you can maintain discipline.

If you do want to spoil yourself, however, the second half of Storm of Swords is fantastic and loaded with action. I doubt you'd be disappointed.

[Duvall]

I'm not quite able to forgive Jaime for dropping Bran out of a window...attempting to murder a young boy to save your own skin isn't something that's easy to forgive...but I'm certainly enjoying seeing his character become more human, and lose some of his arrogance.

Well to be fair, it wasn't just his own skin that was at stake there.

[bjornolf]

I freely admit that I haven't read the books in several years, but I didn't think Robb's new bride went to the wedding because it was too much of an insult. Also, isn't it weird to see Filch from HP as Walder Frey, a major lord in GoT?

[wavedukefan70s]

My wife has the books.i haven't read them as of yet.our tastes seem to differ greatly in what we read.GoT tv series has got my undivided attention.i am afraid to read the books until the tv series has ended.i do not want to have any preconceived notions of what should happen next.i will admit this season has left me in awe a few times.things I just didnt see coming.the last time i was that surprised.was the movie usual suspects.

[davekay1971]

I freely admit that I haven't read the books in several years, but I didn't think Robb's new bride went to the wedding because it was too much of an insult. Also, isn't it weird to see Filch from HP as Walder Frey, a major lord in GoT?

I was happy to see the actor be able to do a little more than look suspicious and grumpy. I was always waiting for Filch to shout "Get off my lawn!" at Frodo, I mean, Harry. Granted that Frey is a pretty one-dimensional jerk so far, but David Bradley (yes, I had to look that up) is doing a stellar job of portraying him. The delivery of "I'll get another" was perfect...chilling in it's narcissistic inhumanity.

[bjornolf]

I just reread the wedding, and Robb did leave Jeyne at Riverrun. I always thought his child would be important in the later books. I guess not in the show, though, eh?

[Duvall]

I just reread the wedding, and Robb did leave Jeyne at Riverrun. I always thought his child would be important in the later books. I guess not in the show, though, eh?

It's pretty unlikely that Jeyne was pregnant in the books - someone sees her a few months later very much not pregnant.

[JNort]

It's pretty unlikely that Jeyne was pregnant in the books - someone sees her a few months later very much not pregnant.

Guess the show wanted to make the wedding scene even more traumatic.

[sbpollo]

My son saw GRRM in Lexington last year he said about characters "The more you like them, the more I kill them off"

[davekay1971]

My son saw GRRM in Lexington last year he said about characters "The more you like them, the more I kill them off"

Nah, he intentionally wrote Tyrion, Arya, Jon Snow and Danaerys to be very likeable and they're still around.

Put up or shut up, George!

(just kidding - I'd hate to see any of those four characters killed off...and would probably stop watching the series if either Tyrion or Arya was killed.)

As a writer, Martin seems to be doing a masterful job, with the small portion of the series I've read and/or watched, in selecting who dies. He's keeping villians around long enough to make them truly threatening and make you really want to see them dead, but killing them off just frequently enough to give us the catharsis we need. As for the heroes, the ones he's killed were either necessary to push the plot forward (Ned Stark) or ancillary enough (Caetlyn, Robb), so that their deaths, while sad, still left the readers with more central heroes to cheer on. After all, the deaths of Ned, Caetlyn, and Robb just make you want to see Arya put a sword through some Lannisters that much more...

Spoilers (sort of...but not really if you've been paying attention to Arya's character arc)














Speaking of Arya, who do you most want to see her assassinate one day?
My list, in rank order:
1) Cersei
2) Joffrey (even though I doubt it will happen...can't see him living that long)
3) Tywin

[JNort]

After watching episode 10 on Sunday I find it very interesting that Bran told that ghost story right after what we saw in episode 9.

[AncientPsychicT]

After watching episode 10 on Sunday I find it very interesting that Bran told that ghost story right after what we saw in episode 9.

That, and the fact that they cut right to Frey and Bolton afterward, almost makes it seem intentional.... :eek:

:cool:

[JNort]

That, and the fact that they cut right to Frey and Bolton afterward, almost makes it seem intentional.... :eek:

:cool:

Yeah I thought he was gonna choke on his food in that scene! Lol would serve him right.