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ChrisP
04-03-2011, 11:17 PM
Ok, I will admit, it totally slipped by me that the women were playing tonight. Texas A&M upset Standford in the first game and I just tuned into the last 11 or so minutes of ND vs. UCONN. I'm pulling for the Irish.

But anyway...what in the heck is up with this court? It hurts my eyes to look at it - yikes!!! Is the women's game really that much less popular that they have to resort to cheesy antics like this?

terrih
04-03-2011, 11:23 PM
The court isn't bothering me so much. Little strange- I wish the key wasn't colored in. My questoin is do they always interview players and coaches during the game? At halftime, instead of interviewing a coach on the way to the locker room, they interviewed Maya Moore. At the start of the 2nd half they interviewed a player from ND. Just a few minutes ago- with around 10 minutes to go, they interviewed Gino.

I don't watch the women that much, is this common? Can you imagine ESPN talking to K Walker at halftime Monday night and then at the start of the second half- S Mack?

-TerriH

uh_no
04-03-2011, 11:25 PM
The court isn't bothering me so much. Little strange- I wish the key wasn't colored in. My questoin is do they always interview players and coaches during the game? At halftime, instead of interviewing a coach on the way to the locker room, they interviewed Maya Moore. At the start of the 2nd half they interviewed a player from ND. Just a few minutes ago- with around 10 minutes to go, they interviewed Gino.

I don't watch the women that much, is this common? Can you imagine ESPN talking to K Walker at halftime Monday night and then at the start of the second half- S Mack?

-TerriH

women's games aren't terribly frequently televised (relative to men)....the head coach is by far a more frequent interview....but people want to hear Maya this and Maya that...she transcends the game a bit right now

ChrisP
04-03-2011, 11:30 PM
I don't know if it's common to do those in-game interviews - I also thought it was odd. I think they do that in the NBA, right? I don't watch enough women's hoops to know if it's a regular thing.

But that court hurts my head. And yeah, what in the world is that weird coloring in the lane. It looks like some kind of "throwback" attempt. Hey, maybe that's it - maybe this court was designed for the era of black & white TV. Yeah, that MUST be it.

Love seeing UCONN struggle though!

uh_no
04-03-2011, 11:37 PM
I don't know if it's common to do those in-game interviews - I also thought it was odd. I think they do that in the NBA, right? I don't watch enough women's hoops to know if it's a regular thing.

But that court hurts my head. And yeah, what in the world is that weird coloring in the lane. It looks like some kind of "throwback" attempt. Hey, maybe that's it - maybe this court was designed for the era of black & white TV. Yeah, that MUST be it.

Love seeing UCONN struggle though!

I think the key has flowers in it....if so, not exactly the best way to market the sport to the general populace....

ChrisP
04-03-2011, 11:40 PM
One thing that is a constant in women's hoops seems no less true tonight - the officiating is horrendous. In the roughly 1/4 of this game that I've watched, I've seen at least 4 egregious fouls that went uncalled. Doesn't seem to favor one team over the other so...I guess that's good, right?

uh_no
04-03-2011, 11:45 PM
One thing that is a constant in women's hoops seems no less true tonight - the officiating is horrendous. In the roughly 1/4 of this game that I've watched, I've seen at least 4 egregious fouls that went uncalled. Doesn't seem to favor one team over the other so...I guess that's good, right?

That's not exclusive to the women's game.....

DukeGirl4ever
04-03-2011, 11:46 PM
One thing that is a constant in women's hoops seems no less true tonight - the officiating is horrendous. In the roughly 1/4 of this game that I've watched, I've seen at least 4 egregious fouls that went uncalled. Doesn't seem to favor one team over the other so...I guess that's good, right?


I will agree with this statement that the officiating is horrible. The refs took Stephanie Dolson out of the game on fouls that were not fouls at all.

Trust me, it has definitely favored ND....they have been pushing UCONN at will. At one point the foul discrepancy was 10 UCONN fouls and 3 ND.

I know people on this board don't like the UCONN men's team, but I have great respect for Geno and Maya Moore. Maya has handled herself in an unbelievable fashion over the last four years. I'm sorry that people enjoy seeing them lose. I have nothing but respect for those women athletes and I don't get any enjoyment out of seeing any senior end their career.

ChrisP
04-03-2011, 11:47 PM
Let's hope that this is just the first of a pair of disappointing hoops losses for UCONN in as many days. So glad to see teams NOT named Tennessee or UCONN play for the women's championship.

ChrisP
04-03-2011, 11:49 PM
I will agree with this statement that the officiating is horrible. The refs took Stephanie Dolson out of the game on fouls that were not fouls at all.

Trust me, it has definitely favored ND....they have been pushing UCONN at will. At one point the foul discrepancy was 10 UCONN fouls and 3 ND.

I know people on this board don't like the UCONN men's team, but I have great respect for Geno and Maya Moore. Maya has handled herself in an unbelievable fashion over the last four years. I'm sorry that people enjoy seeing them lose. I have nothing but respect for those women athletes and I don't get any enjoyment out of seeing any senior end their career.

Ok, fair enough - I don't watch a ton of women's bball and didn't watch this whole game. I'm not that sad for these UCONN seniors - they DO have 2 championships under their belt, after all. I have a ton of respect for Moore, too but agian, she's already got a couple of rings. I'm happy to see ND advance.

M B Walker
04-03-2011, 11:49 PM
Hallelujah! Notre Dame wins. No UConn in women's final.

DukeGirl4ever
04-03-2011, 11:56 PM
Ok, fair enough - I don't watch a ton of women's bball and didn't watch this whole game. I'm not that sad for these UCONN seniors - they DO have 2 championships under their belt, after all. I have a ton of respect for Moore, too but agian, she's already got a couple of rings. I'm happy to see ND advance.

You have to think of it from the perspective of our fan base. A lot of people hate Duke because we win and we do things the right way. Our kids go to class and they are great contributors to the community.
I see the same kinds of things with the UCONN women's program. They win (and they dominate) and they have great young gals that represent their school.


I understand your thinking that it's nice to see someone else win. I will agree with that. But my goodness, wouldn't you have loved to see a UCONN/Tennessee or UCONN/Baylor, or better yet UCONN/Stanford national championship game? Those match-ups would have been intriguing given the past history.

I hate to say it, but those are the match-ups people talk about. The ND and Texas A&M winner will probably get lost in the shuffle over the few years, and I do think that's a shame. Unfortunately, that's where the women's game is...a few powerhouses that attract national attention.

throatybeard
04-03-2011, 11:58 PM
I didn't want to post during the game for fear of unjixing UConn.

President Obama's WBB bracket just got killed tonight. Raise your hand if you had both underdogs.

Moore's untimely career end reminds me of us taking out Holdsclaw and UTK in the Region Final twelve years ago.

Is coach McGraw's name really Muffett? Really?

Yeah, that lane is odd. That's a real, old-school "key" inside the lane.

Last but not least, I find Carolyn Peck and her east TN dialect rather fetching.

MCFinARL
04-04-2011, 12:01 AM
You have to think of it from the perspective of our fan base. A lot of people hate Duke because we win and we do things the right way. Our kids go to class and they are great contributors to the community.
I see the same kinds of things with the UCONN women's program. They win (and they dominate) and they have great young gals that represent their school.


I understand your thinking that it's nice to see someone else win. I will agree with that. But my goodness, wouldn't you have loved to see a UCONN/Tennessee or UCONN/Baylor, or better yet UCONN/Stanford national championship game? Those match-ups would have been intriguing given the past history.

I hate to say it, but those are the match-ups people talk about. The ND and Texas A&M winner will probably get lost in the shuffle over the few years, and I do think that's a shame. Unfortunately, that's where the women's game is...a few powerhouses that attract national attention.

You're right, of course, but isn't that just why having two up-and-coming teams in the final is a good thing? If they can build on this, they can expand the pool of teams that draw attention in the women's game.

DukeGirl4ever
04-04-2011, 12:07 AM
You're right, of course, but isn't that just why having two up-and-coming teams in the final is a good thing? If they can build on this, they can expand the pool of teams that draw attention in the women's game.

Oh I totally agree with your thinking that it should attract more people, but I'm not sure it will. The only school that I can think of recently that won it all and attracted a new fan base was Baylor....and for that school, that is a great thing given some of the events with the men's program.

I love to watch basketball at any level. Heck I sit around on the weekends sometimes and watch high school girls game just to learn something new about the game. I really wish more people would watch the women's game because I find it to be very intriguing due to some of the rules (i.e. no 10 sec. rule to get across the timeline). I really think that rule should be changed - it would open up a whole new world for the women's game and I think it would attract more fans as the tempo of the games would pick up, IMO.

uh_no
04-04-2011, 12:07 AM
You're right, of course, but isn't that just why having two up-and-coming teams in the final is a good thing? If they can build on this, they can expand the pool of teams that draw attention in the women's game.

Not sure ND counts as up and coming...this is their third final 4 in the past 15 years and they won the championship just 10 years ago.

DukeGirl4ever
04-04-2011, 12:14 AM
Not sure ND counts as up and coming...this is their third final 4 in the past 15 years and they won the championship just 10 years ago.

I also try to look at it this way - if the school has a successful men's bball program or a football program, the women's program will usually get their support.

ND has a pretty wide fan base as a result of the football program, so I'm not sure how much we are "expanding the horizon" with them being there but MCFinARL's point is good in theory.

Good discussion - great points by all. Thanks for feeding my obsession....I have felt like something's been missing in my life this weekend as I haven't been able to watch the proper shade of blue and white on the hardwood! :)

Lid
04-04-2011, 08:37 AM
I don't watch the women that much, is this common?
It's not something I've seen during the games I watched in the regular season, but they've been doing it during the tournament quite a bit. I also think it's bizarre -- really, Gonzaga's star player has to not only carry her team, she has to stop and talk to a reporter on her way to the locker room at halftime?

About people being happy that ND beat UConn: I'm definitely not a fan of UConn's women's team, because I'm a Duke fan, and I generally don't have super-fuzzy feelings about teams that are in the habit of beating the tar out of my favorite team. So, I'm not happy to see players finish their careers, but I also don't see any reason to look forward to ND's players seeing the ends of their careers, either. But again, my loyalties are entirely to Duke's team.

I know that uh_no is fond of reminding us how UConn's goal is to beat the crap out of every team they face (to the point of keeping the starters in with a 30-point lead and 5 minutes left), which is fine, but I'm sure the team doesn't now want our sympathies for their own loss. And frankly, they don't have mine. I won't cheer for them to lose, but I'm also not sad to see that their seniors only have 2 rings, not 3. Poor babies. :)

stillcrazie
04-04-2011, 08:54 AM
Just wanted to chime in and say that it's the only time I remember watching both Final Four games when Duke was not in it and thoroughly enjoyed both games. Exciting upsets, great finishes, hard fought games, new stars emerging. I had not heard of Skylar Diggins until ESPN did a story on her right before the game - she grew up in South Bend and idolized the woman who is now her coach. Just a great story. Danielle Adams of A&M also became a favorite. I had planned to root for Stanford thinking they had the best chance vs. UConn, but fell in love with A&M's hard nosed play.

Sometimes women's bball can be hard to watch because of poor shooting, but for me, these were two games that were fun to watch from start to finish. (I did fall asleep at the beginning of the second half of UConn/ND but woke up in time to see the finish!

I'd love nothing more than to see Duke there next year - Chelsea Gray as the star guard, Amber Henson and EWill as forces in the paint.

uh_no
04-04-2011, 11:17 AM
Sometimes women's bball can be hard to watch because of poor shooting, but for me, these were two games that were fun to watch from start to finish. (I did fall asleep at the beginning of the second half of UConn/ND but woke up in time to see the finish!


Isn't it amazing when you get really good women's teams to play eachother? One of the reasons that a small number of teams can dominate all the rest and make it un-fun to watch, is that so many teams just play terrible ball....throwing the ball away, not runninng offense....whatever. Nobody wants to watch that. Then when you get a uconn or stanford who play well, they can rip and shred teams in the rest of the country....I think the problem is that the talent pool just doesn't exist for women's basketball, so its harder to fill more than a large handful of teams with all good players, whereas in mens where there are hundreds and hundreds of really good players out there.

brevity
04-04-2011, 02:26 PM
I understand your thinking that it's nice to see someone else win. I will agree with that. But my goodness, wouldn't you have loved to see a UCONN/Tennessee or UCONN/Baylor, or better yet UCONN/Stanford national championship game? Those match-ups would have been intriguing given the past history.

I hate to say it, but those are the match-ups people talk about. The ND and Texas A&M winner will probably get lost in the shuffle over the few years, and I do think that's a shame. Unfortunately, that's where the women's game is...a few powerhouses that attract national attention.

Your analysis is sound, but the thing that is holding back the women's game is a lack of parity. The sport has leaned on the dual crutches of Connecticut and Tennessee for far too long. I see this Irish-Aggies final as more of an anomaly than the start of a trend, but it needed to happen.

There are some (many?) casual sports fans who aren't going to watch the women's game anyway, but there are those on the fence who might pay attention if the results don't seem so predetermined.


Last but not least, I find Carolyn Peck and her east TN dialect rather fetching.

You forgot to mention the slightly tousled hair. And I mean that as a compliment.

MCFinARL
04-04-2011, 06:02 PM
Not sure ND counts as up and coming...this is their third final 4 in the past 15 years and they won the championship just 10 years ago.

Fair enough--to be honest, I'd forgotten they had won a previous championship. Would you accept "up and coming back"? ;)

uh_no
04-04-2011, 07:11 PM
Fair enough--to be honest, I'd forgotten they had won a previous championship. Would you accept "up and coming back"? ;)

With the way uconn has dominated the sport over the past 3 seasons, and tennessee the 2 before that, I can see how any other team would seem 'up and coming' It's always an incredible feat when a team can set the bar as high as uconn has and another can then come up and match it. While uconn will not dominate the sport next year, and possibly for more years to come (it took them 5 years to recover after the loss of diana) I'm sure they will be back to the finals soon enough (geno is a wonderful coach....no doubt about it). The thing that has separated uconn and tennessee from the rest is not only their great teams, but their continued success. They are both there every year. Stanford is working its way into joining that circle, but has yet to have the title run. Baylor is close too, they are only 6 years separated from a title, but going 0-2 with griner is not promising. The key for ND is to be successful in their bid this year, and then to come back next year, and the year after that and be right back in the final 4 again. I wish them the best of luck.

Jim3k
04-05-2011, 02:43 PM
I will agree with this statement that the officiating is horrible. The refs took Stephanie Dolson out of the game on fouls that were not fouls at all.



Well, it was about time. Dolson got away with murder against us. Moving picks, shoving shooters, pushing people around under the basket. Her play was one of the main reasons neither Krystal nor Allison scored in the paint. Those two aren't the best on the low block, for sure, but Dolson's body-up move as they shot made it a lot harder for them. Her play made us look a lot worse than we are. We may have lost anyway, but Dolson's uncalled fouls changed the tenor of the game altogether. (And Coach P seemed afraid to engage the refs in appropriate coachspeak.) I suspect the ref supervisors noticed and the refs watched Dolson a little more closely in the ND game.

uh_no
04-05-2011, 02:47 PM
Well, it was about time. Dolson got away with murder against us. Moving picks, shoving shooters, pushing people around under the basket. Her play was one of the main reasons neither Krystal nor Allison scored in the paint. Those two aren't the best on the low block, for sure, but Dolson's body-up move as they shot made it a lot harder for them. Her play made us look a lot worse than we are. We may have lost anyway, but Dolson's uncalled fouls changed the tenor of the game altogether. (And Coach P seemed afraid to engage the refs in appropriate coachspeak.) I suspect the ref supervisors noticed and the refs watched Dolson a little more closely in the ND game.

I think you're a tad biased here. Take a look at uconn's numbers all year, they RARELY have foul issues. Now, maybe the refs are all in collusion here...but after 38 games, I think we'd have a pretty good idea of which teams aren't huge foulers.

Also, Duke lost by 35 and 36 in their two games against duke. those margins aren't within the 'bad calls' realm....

Jim3k
04-05-2011, 03:34 PM
I think you're a tad biased here. Take a look at uconn's numbers all year, they RARELY have foul issues. Now, maybe the refs are all in collusion here...but after 38 games, I think we'd have a pretty good idea of which teams aren't huge foulers.

Also, Duke lost by 35 and 36 in their two games against duke. those margins aren't within the 'bad calls' realm....

Hey, I'm 'always' a tad biased for the Devils. :D

That said, I've been watching the game for over 50 years. And I didn't accuse the refs of bias or being in collusion or say that the calls they did make were 'bad.' Nor did I say we would have won. What I said was that they didn't seem to notice Dolson's regular body-up move. It's a subtle half-step blocking foul. Period. And the refs' failing to see it insulates her from foul trouble. And, given her bulk, it affects shooting, particularly that of more slightly-built players. Both of those affect the game's tenor, if not the outcome. Her move reminds me a little of the criticism Dean Smith had of Danny Ferry--"getting away with those pro tricks," or some such quote.

An offensive team should be able to attack Dolson successfully. Coach P couldn't get the refs to pay attention and it took away one of our offensive moves. As for other infractions, the moving screens and the pushing ... well, some of that is just the way the game is played. Doesn't mean it's legal or that Dolson is an innocent.

uh_no
04-05-2011, 04:04 PM
Hey, I'm 'always' a tad biased for the Devils. :D

That said, I've been watching the game for over 50 years. And I didn't accuse the refs of bias or being in collusion or say that the calls they did make were 'bad.' Nor did I say we would have won. What I said was that they didn't seem to notice Dolson's regular body-up move. It's a subtle half-step blocking foul. Period. And the refs' failing to see it insulates her from foul trouble. And, given her bulk, it affects shooting, particularly that of more slightly-built players. Both of those affect the game's tenor, if not the outcome. Her move reminds me a little of the criticism Dean Smith had of Danny Ferry--"getting away with those pro tricks," or some such quote.

An offensive team should be able to attack Dolson successfully. Coach P couldn't get the refs to pay attention and it took away one of our offensive moves. As for other infractions, the moving screens and the pushing ... well, some of that is just the way the game is played. Doesn't mean it's legal or that Dolson is an innocent.

I'll use my usual argument here: if it's successful, then how come duke doesn't do it? f they don't have the players to do it, why don't they recruit players that can do it? Duke has had no trouble getting the players they've wanted the past couple years, and if dolson's style is so massively effective, perhaps its time for P to try it, goodness knows whatever she's doing now is hugely ineffective against uconn.

roywhite
04-05-2011, 04:08 PM
No doubt the semifinal games were interesting and well played.

Let's hope for a good contest tonight. The men certainly didn't set the bar very high last night in terms of quality of play and watchability.

uh_no
04-05-2011, 04:53 PM
No doubt the semifinal games were interesting and well played.

Let's hope for a good contest tonight. The men certainly didn't set the bar very high last night in terms of quality of play and watchability.

I think this is going to be a fantastic game.