PDA

View Full Version : Collins & Wojo



fuse
04-03-2011, 05:40 PM
Apologies in advance for starting a common off season thread.

While I would be thrilled to still have Johnny Dawkins on the bench, I am glad he has a great opportunity with Stanford to make his mark (and possibly gain critical experience should be be able to and interested in a future head coaching position back in Durham).

I am proud to have both Wojo and Collins on the bench as well, and I don't really want them to leave but I also wonder when they will spread their wings. Both Collins and Wojo's names were mentioned for the Dayton job, and it appears that Wojo interviewed for it at least (and I guess Archie Miller is the new Dayton coach).

I'd really like to see Wojo and Collin get their first head coaching job soon. I am sure that Nate James and Carrawell (as well as other possible returnees) could fill in and grow into the assistant coaching roles. I am also a believer that leadership teams benefit from change, and that taking nothing away from Wojo, Collins or anyone else on the Duke staff that Coach K and the coaches that leave as well as arrive will benefit from the change.

Everyone has to make the right changes for themselves, and I have no right to suggest/think otherwise. I just wonder during the annual coaching carousel if we will see changes on our staff.

Go Duke!

-g

OZZIE4DUKE
04-03-2011, 05:56 PM
If what we had wasn't working, I'd be worried about a stagnant coaching situation. But Wojo and Collins have both grown into two of the most competent and complete assistant (head) coaches in college basketball over the last several years. Coach K has said so and we've seen the results on the court and on the recruiting trail. The experience and growth they got thanks to joining K at the Olympics and World Championships can't be measured. They are both more than ready to be head coaches at major Div. 1 Universities. I'm in no hurry to push them out the door although I'm sure when the right opportunity comes along one or both of them will leave, hopefully not both the same year because yes, I think that would hurt us.

Gthoma2a
04-03-2011, 06:14 PM
I'd like to add Christian Laettner to them, though. He has done enough for the program that he deserves a shot if he wants one, or so I think. He is one of the players that made the program what it is today.

cascadedevil
04-03-2011, 06:31 PM
Why do we assume head coaching jobs at mid-major institutions are better jobs than being the Associate Head Coach at Duke. Coach K has managed to get fantastic salaries for them, they get to raise their children surrounded by the extended Duke family, and they continue participating in something they helped build. Many head coaching jobs only last a few years (win or you are out) and moving young children is always disruptive. Watching Chris and Wojo celebrate with their families and Coach K's grandchildren after winning the ACC Tournament, made me think there are few things as special as what they have now. And we are very fortunate to have them!

loldevilz
04-03-2011, 07:22 PM
Why do we assume head coaching jobs at mid-major institutions are better jobs than being the Associate Head Coach at Duke. Coach K has managed to get fantastic salaries for them, they get to raise their children surrounded by the extended Duke family, and they continue participating in something they helped build. Many head coaching jobs only last a few years (win or you are out) and moving young children is always disruptive. Watching Chris and Wojo celebrate with their families and Coach K's grandchildren after winning the ACC Tournament, made me think there are few things as special as what they have now. And we are very fortunate to have them!

Duke was good before Collins and Wojo came and will be good after they leave. Wojo in particular, if he thinks he is the heir to the Duke throne, should prove he is a competent head coach. It doesn't matter where it is at, he just needs to be successful, which is something that many of the former assistants haven't been.

I would love to see Laettner coach the bigs. I bet you he could get Ryan and Mason to be outstanding bigs who have the kind of toughness Laettner himself had.

DukeDevilDeb
04-03-2011, 09:19 PM
Duke was good before Collins and Wojo came and will be good after they leave. Wojo in particular, if he thinks he is the heir to the Duke throne, should prove he is a competent head coach. It doesn't matter where it is at, he just needs to be successful, which is something that many of the former assistants haven't been.

I would love to see Laettner coach the bigs. I bet you he could get Ryan and Mason to be outstanding bigs who have the kind of toughness Laettner himself had.

...that Christian would be a good coach? I knew him when he was here and have followed his career. His personality simply may not be the kind that works well in a coaching job. I do remember Coach K saying to me that Christian was the one player he would really like to coach again... that his drive to win was remarkable. But I'm not convinced that such a drive translates well into coaching.

Just curious what others think. Know there is another thread on this somewhere... feel free to move or delete.

-bdbd
04-03-2011, 11:00 PM
By all indications Wojo and Collins are very solid, very competent Assistant Coaches. They are well-settled in their roles, as they've been in them for many years now, and in terms of how they mesh within the Duke staff/team and with each other. And we are presently spoiled at Duke by incredible and persistent success.

That said, I do think that there is something to be said for "stirring the pot" or bringing in new minds/ideas, and exposing/growing newer members of the Duke/K coaching tree. I want to see that tree expand.

As others have said here, K has been able to establish them with very comfortable circumstances in Durham - comfortable/well-known surroundings, support/fans and certainly high pay (for assistants). I don't recall the figures at the moment, but do recall thinking, when I did hear them somewhere a little while back, that those "Assistant" salaries are better than many/most mid-major Head-Coaching salaries. So why would they ever leave? Durham is comfortable, safe and lucrative.

BUT if they are to be considered as potential replacements for the eventuality of K leaving - hopefully 8+ years from now - then I think that DUKE is better served by having a broader and deeper coaching tree to pick from. Separately, I am one who believes that these individuals (or whoever eventually replaces K) will be better at doing that huge job if they have already had Head Coaching experience in their past. There is just no replacement for the experience and responsibility of being the man IN CHARGE. IOW, "the buck stops here." My experience in business has taught me that there just is no way to simulate that ownership, that feeling of absolute responsibility. I'd like the next Duke HC to have experienced and learned from that before sitting in THAT chair at the end of the Duke bench.

I do hope Wojo and Collins take that step, b/c I do believe that they could be excellent candidates eventually. Once they gain that experience. Like Brey, Dawkins, Amaker and Capel.
:confused:

Go Duke!

P.S. Put me also in the camp that says, while I'd be thrilled to have such a Duke legend as Laettner on our bench and coaching that fire and those skills into our bigs, it is a much larger consideration to consider whether he would actually be a good/great coach. It is a very special skill-set to be a good coach. And just b/c someone was a phenomenal player does not mean that will be an equally skilled coach. But certainly he's earned the opportunity to interview for it should an opening arise.

HK Dukie
04-03-2011, 11:27 PM
Laettner was IMHO our best player ever.

I don't think we should bring him to our bench as an assistant coach because (1) he is not hungry enough to do all the dirty work after making a lot of money in the pros (2) his attitude is what defined him as a player, and helped make him great on the court, but you need a cohesive unit and based on Coach K's own descriptions of Christian, I believe he should prove he has the temperment to be successful elsewhere first.

Feel free to disagree.

OZZIE4DUKE
04-04-2011, 10:00 AM
Laettner was IMHO our best player ever.

I don't think we should bring him to our bench as an assistant coach because (1) he is not hungry enough to do all the dirty work after making a lot of money in the pros (2) his attitude is what defined him as a player, and helped make him great on the court, but you need a cohesive unit and based on Coach K's own descriptions of Christian, I believe he should prove he has the temperment to be successful elsewhere first.

Feel free to disagree.
I disagree. I think that if after the interview process, Coach K hired Christian Laettner as an assistant coach, K would be convinced that his attitude, temperament and work ethic would fit in "just fine" with the rest of the staff and be an asset to the players. If K felt otherwise, he wouldn't hire him "just to give him a job" or just to "give him a chance". Laettner doesn't need the money and K doesn't need the headaches, and he certainly wouldn't do anything to the detriment of the team's on the court success. Needless to say, "In K I trust". :cool:

4decadedukie
04-04-2011, 10:42 AM
I want whatever Chris and Wojo want. I believe, however, it is an understandable error to assume that necessarily includes a (or several, ever better) head coaching jobs. Both Wojo and Chris MAY – and I have no “inside” information – be perfectly happy to remain with Duke as Associate Head Coaches, notwithstanding many good head coaching opportunities. After all, they – and their families – are thoroughly ensconced in the Duke and Triangle communities, they are revered at their alma mater, I suspect they are compensated rather well (as they should be), they work with superb youngsters and with (almost certainly) the best head coach in the intercollegiate sport’s history, the team is enthusiastically supported (financially, and in all other ways) throughout all Duke constituencies, and the program's standards and ethics are deeply established are enduring. Is there a better paradigm for happiness? Will the additional salary and potential celebrity offset the difficulties and the risks associated with leading a smaller (and, perhaps troubled/failed) program?

Olympic Fan
04-04-2011, 11:22 AM
Interesting topic ... I don't know what Chris and Wojo want. As a Duke fan, I'm happy to have such a balanced and experienced staff. Stability is great ...

That said, there is always room for an infusion of new blood. If an opening does occur -- say Wojo to Miami (no inside info, just as an example) or Wojo to K-State to replace Frank Martin if he does to Miami -- I think the first in line to becoming a new assistant coach will be Chris Carrawell.

He's clearly a coach in waiting ... he does a lot of things with the team, but in his current status, his coaching input on the floor and in recruiting is limited. I'm confident that he fills the next opening.

Laettner would be an interesting addition, if it could occur. I honestly don't know how good an assistant coach he'll be. His fire -- assuming it hasn't diminished with age and success (and I doubt it has) -- could be a great addition or it could be too much for a coach. Greatness on the court or in the field don't always translate into success on the bench or in the front office (as Ted Williams/Elgin Baylor/Michael Jordan have provided).

On the other hand, Bill Russell was almost as great a coach as he was a player. Laettner, like Russell was one of the most intelligent players of his generation and he combined that with a supreme will to win.

I'd be willing to gamble on that combination.

Reilly
04-04-2011, 11:33 AM
... Laettner, like Russell was one of the most intelligent players of his generation and he combined that with a supreme will to win.

I'd be willing to gamble on that combination.

There's one thing to have a supreme will to win to motivate yourself; another to be able to motivate others. It's ineffable, but somebody like Nate always struck me as someone with a supreme will to win who could also lead others, but Laettner strikes me as someone with a supreme will to win who may not be able to inspire others. I'd pass on CL as a Duke coach.

SoCalDukeFan
04-04-2011, 11:34 AM
There are guys out there who want very very very much to be head college coach. Wojo and Chris may or may not be one of them. Of course each situation is a little different. (I know a coach at a mid major who turned down a job a major school for lots more money because he did not like the situation.)

While I am sure that Wojo and Chris probably have quite nice lives for themselves and their families at Duke they are also liable to wake up one day and wonder how they would do as a head coach.

When K does eventually retire then Duke will probably want a coach with head coaching experience and that coach will probably want his own staff.

I used to wonder about the lack of fresh ideas, as K fills his staff with his guys. I don't any more. I think that K is always thinking how he can do his job better and does expose himself to different ideas through the Olympics etc. K does not have to teach his assistants his system, they all know it and that saves time and avoids confusion.

SoCal

Bluedevil114
04-04-2011, 12:07 PM
There are guys out there who want very very very much to be head college coach. Wojo and Chris may or may not be one of them. Of course each situation is a little different. (I know a coach at a mid major who turned down a job a major school for lots more money because he did not like the situation.)

While I am sure that Wojo and Chris probably have quite nice lives for themselves and their families at Duke they are also liable to wake up one day and wonder how they would do as a head coach.

When K does eventually retire then Duke will probably want a coach with head coaching experience and that coach will probably want his own staff.

I used to wonder about the lack of fresh ideas, as K fills his staff with his guys. I don't any more. I think that K is always thinking how he can do his job better and does expose himself to different ideas through the Olympics etc. K does not have to teach his assistants his system, they all know it and that saves time and avoids confusion.

SoCal

Chris Collins has head coaching in his blood. He is the most polished on the Duke bench. I believe he is not interviewing because he is the one that Coach K will pick to replace him one day. IMHO, Duke will not look for a coach necessarily with Head Coach experience

Duke will want consistency more than anything else. If you want Head Coach experience then they could go after Johnny Dawkins. I just believe that Chris Collins is being groomed by Coach K for his spot, the day he hangs it up.

I have believed this for the last couple of years. Coach Collins is the one doing the interviews at halftime. After watching the behind the scenes on ESPNU this year it became even more clear. Coach Collins is running a lot of the practice today.

SoCalDukeFan
04-04-2011, 12:14 PM
Chris Collins has head coaching in his blood. He is the most polished on the Duke bench. I believe he is not interviewing because he is the one that Coach K will pick to replace him one day. IMHO, Duke will not look for a coach necessarily with Head Coach experience

Duke will want consistency more than anything else. If you want Head Coach experience then they could go after Johnny Dawkins. I just believe that Chris Collins is being groomed by Coach K for his spot, the day he hangs it up.

I have believed this for the last couple of years. Coach Collins is the one doing the interviews at halftime. After watching the behind the scenes on ESPNU this year it became even more clear. Coach Collins is running a lot of the practice today.

Of course then what happens to Wojo?

SoCal

gwlaw99
04-04-2011, 12:27 PM
...that Christian would be a good coach? I knew him when he was here and have followed his career. His personality simply may not be the kind that works well in a coaching job. I do remember Coach K saying to me that Christian was the one player he would really like to coach again... that his drive to win was remarkable. But I'm not convinced that such a drive translates well into coaching.

Just curious what others think. Know there is another thread on this somewhere... feel free to move or delete.

Someone to teach out big men moves in the post would definitely be helpful.

langdonfan
04-04-2011, 12:36 PM
There are guys out there who want very very very much to be head college coach. Wojo and Chris may or may not be one of them. Of course each situation is a little different. (I know a coach at a mid major who turned down a job a major school for lots more money because he did not like the situation.)
SoCal

I think they both want to be head coaches at some point. We have seen each of their names mentioned a few times during other schools' coaching searches and all reports seem to indicate that they are at least listening, and possibly interviewing. I can't help but think there is a real possibility that one of them takes over for Coach K. UNLESS Chris or Wojo get offered a desirable high major job before Coach K retires (like Dawkins to Stanford), I envision a scenario that would go something like this:

Collins (or Wojo) takes over as head coach

Wojo (or Collins) gets a big contract to stay on as associate head coach for a few more years and help the new head coach keep things rolling. Wojo (or Collins) then leaves to become a head coach.

Granted, I think Duke may FIRST go after someone like a Brad Stevens, but's that's a discussion for another thread. I think Collins and Wojo have reason to believe that their names will be in the mix as well. It's not unprecedented. Roy Williams was an assistant when he took over at Kansas in the 1980's. Bill Gutheridge took over at UNC in the late 1990's. It can and does happen at the highest level of college basketball.

cspan37421
04-04-2011, 12:36 PM
Someone to teach out big men moves in the post would definitely be helpful.

What do you think Wojo has been doing? Same guy who made Zoubek a force last year, you know.

Besides, Christian was less of a post player than either Plumlee. He was more like Ferry, or even like Ryan, in that he could shoot from outside as well, dribble to stretch the D, etc.

Not saying he would not be welcomed ... but enough already with the insinuation that Wojo isn't teaching them stuff. You don't have to be a big man to coach big men. Pete Newell was 6'2".

licc85
04-04-2011, 01:37 PM
Apologies in advance for starting a common off season thread.

While I would be thrilled to still have Johnny Dawkins on the bench, I am glad he has a great opportunity with Stanford to make his mark (and possibly gain critical experience should be be able to and interested in a future head coaching position back in Durham).


Brad Stevens should be the next head coach of Duke basketball. I want this to happen soooo bad. As much as I love Wojo and CC and JD, the track record for K assistants isn't stellar. We need a proven winner and "the Professor" is the guy that impresses me the most. He's young, he's a great motivator, and he's gone to 2 straight final 4s, with a chance to win it all this year. And he's on pace to smash Coach K's wins record if he has as long a career as K. (I think he's up to like ~120 wins in 4 seasons at Butler) He actually reminds me a of Phil Jackson in a way because of his calm demeanor that translates to his team never panicking no matter the situation. He's got the Zen Master's style.

In any case, when K decides to retires in the next 10 years, this guy should be ripe for the picking. I just hope he doesn't bolt for that UConn or Syracuse job that will probably open up before Coach K retires.

anon
04-04-2011, 02:11 PM
Bill Gutheridge took over at UNC in the late 1990's.

Just in case there was any confusion, this is not a situation we should try to emulate.

Duvall
04-04-2011, 02:13 PM
Brad Stevens should be the next head coach of Duke basketball. I want this to happen soooo bad.

Whatever coach is dumb enough to follow Krzyzewski is so doomed.

-jk
04-04-2011, 02:55 PM
Whatever coach is dumb enough to follow Krzyzewski is so doomed.

Yeah. We'll probably have to shut the board down for a while. Most likely the whole season.

-jk

uh_no
04-04-2011, 03:08 PM
Yeah. We'll probably have to shut the board down for a while. Most likely the whole season.

-jk

The posts will likely be hilarious. Half of them will talk about how the hire is terrible and we'll never be good again and the other half will talk about how with xxx as our coach, we're a lock to win the next yyy championships

MChambers
04-04-2011, 03:13 PM
The posts will likely be hilarious. Half of them will talk about how the hire is terrible and we'll never be good again and the other half will talk about how with xxx as our coach, we're a lock to win the next yyy championships
At least if the next coach hires a tall assistant coach to coach Duke's big men, it will reduce the number of posts around here by 10% or more.

Olympic Fan
04-04-2011, 03:19 PM
Just in case there was any confusion, this is not a situation we should try to emulate.

Yeah, two Final Fours in three seasons and the best first three-year record of any coach in ACC history is something we better make sure we avoid.

uh_no
04-04-2011, 03:21 PM
Yeah, two Final Fours in three seasons and the best first three-year record of any coach in ACC history is something we better make sure we avoid.

with dean's players.....

licc85
04-04-2011, 03:36 PM
Whatever coach is dumb enough to follow Krzyzewski is so doomed.

I'm sure K already has a serious plan to make sure his successor is completely capable of winning championships and has everything they need to succeed. He cares too much about Duke to let the program slip into the desperate situation that UNC was in during the Doherty years.

uh_no
04-04-2011, 03:38 PM
I'm sure K already has a serious plan to make sure his successor is completely capable of winning championships and has everything they need to succeed. He cares too much about Duke to let the program slip into the desperate situation that UNC was in during the Doherty years.

hearing him talk, that's his plan. The K center was certainly a part of that, I believe they are starting a fund raising campaign at some point to attempt to develop a sort of duke basketball/athletics endowment....this was 2 years ago when I heard him tlaking about it, so I really don't know...but he certainly stressed that he wouldn't be around forever and wanted to set the program up for perpetual success

gwlaw99
04-04-2011, 03:53 PM
What do you think Wojo has been doing? Same guy who made Zoubek a force last year, you know.

Besides, Christian was less of a post player than either Plumlee. He was more like Ferry, or even like Ryan, in that he could shoot from outside as well, dribble to stretch the D, etc.

Not saying he would not be welcomed ... but enough already with the insinuation that Wojo isn't teaching them stuff. You don't have to be a big man to coach big men. Pete Newell was 6'2".

Laetner was an all around player but he had very good post moves. Are saying Zoubek became an offesive force with great post moves last year? Wojo did a great job on defense and rebounding, but not moves in the post. How could a point guard possibly be an expert on being a low post player? Would you want Laetner or Shelden Williams as point guard coach? Newell was the exception that proves the rule.

NSDukeFan
04-04-2011, 03:55 PM
Laetner was an all around player but he had very good post moves. Are saying Zoubek became an offesive force with great post moves last year? Wojo did a great job on defense and rebounding, but not moves in the post. How could a point guard possibly be an expert on being a low post player? Would you want Laetner or Shelden Williams as point guard coach?

If they were good teachers and could explain things well to their players, related well to the players and could coach, then definitely. In other words, if they were good at coaching that position, I would be very happy to have them, irrespective of what position they may have previously played.

licc85
04-04-2011, 03:58 PM
Laetner was an all around player but he had very good post moves. Are saying Zoubek became an offesive force with great post moves last year? Wojo did a great job on defense and rebounding, but not moves in the post. How could a point guard possibly be an expert on being a low post player? Would you want Laetner or Shelden Williams as point guard coach?

I semi-agree with this . . .we haven't had a dominant scoring big man since Elton Brand. (And he came in with all those moves already in his arsenal, much like Tony Parker, who we NEED to grab somehow) I would say that while Boozer and Williams were both excellent players for us, neither of them developed significantly on the offensive end at Duke. Boozer, for example has really become a much better post scorer since he went pro.

But at the same time, I think Wojo has done an admirable job teaching the big men we have had to play defense and rebound, which are the main important things we need in our guard-oriented offense. He certainly never had an amazing post game down low during his playing career though.

SoCalDukeFan
04-04-2011, 04:00 PM
I'm sure K already has a serious plan to make sure his successor is completely capable of winning championships and has everything they need to succeed. He cares too much about Duke to let the program slip into the desperate situation that UNC was in during the Doherty years.

If K and Duke implement a plan so that there is little or no drop off in program quality, then that will be his greatest legacy.

SoCal

licc85
04-04-2011, 04:08 PM
If K and Duke implement a plan so that there is little or no drop off in program quality, then that will be his greatest legacy.

SoCal

I'm telling you guys, we need Brad Stevens, he is the man!!! Obviously, I have no say in this decision, but this my case for him:

He already knows what it is to build a program from nothing, he coaches at a small, private university, and he now has an impeccable resume for post-season success. He seems to handle everything the right way, he recruits the type of high-character guys that stay in school and know how to play team basketball, and wins with guys who are often much less talented than their opposition. This guy knows how to coach. He's a perfect fit for Duke.

I'm secretly hoping Coach K has already contacted him and told him to stay at Butler until he retires at Duke. LOL

gwlaw99
04-04-2011, 04:17 PM
I semi-agree with this . . .we haven't had a dominant scoring big man since Elton Brand. (And he came in with all those moves already in his arsenal, much like Tony Parker, who we NEED to grab somehow) I would say that while Boozer and Williams were both excellent players for us, neither of them developed significantly on the offensive end at Duke. Boozer, for example has really become a much better post scorer since he went pro.

But at the same time, I think Wojo has done an admirable job teaching the big men we have had to play defense and rebound, which are the main important things we need in our guard-oriented offense. He certainly never had an amazing post game down low during his playing career though.

That is exactly what I was saying.

sagegrouse
04-04-2011, 04:25 PM
I'm sure K already has a serious plan to make sure his successor is completely capable of winning championships and has everything they need to succeed. He cares too much about Duke to let the program slip into the desperate situation that UNC was in during the Doherty years.

I agree with you, but I think it is just the flip side of Duke under K doing everything in a buttoned-down, well-thought-out way. If he didn't handle his retirement with class and foresight, it would be the biggest upset in NCAA history.

Here's a guess at what will happen:

A. He will not, I repeat, WILL NOT retire just before or during the the season like Dean or Big John in a transparent effort to get a trusted associate a head-coaching gig.

B. He will make every effort to sell each legitimate candidate on the merits of the job.

C. He will not make a recommendation, even if there is a crystal clear candidate. Duke as a whole is fond of doing a "nationwide search" for important jobs. It gives the univeristy community, the alumni, and the fans the view that it was a thorough and complete search and provides the new coach a firmer base.

D. He will answer questions from the search committee but not otherwise offer advice. Of course, the nature of those answers could amount to being actively involved or staying on the sidelines, depending on the kind of advice he gives (i.e., "really good coach/recruiter" or "a really good coach for [situation X]").

I think any candidate would have to give the Duke job serious consideration. Duke, UNC, Kansas, Kentucky and maybe one or two others are the bluebloods of college basketball. Funny, their colors are all blue as well, which is a different subject.

sagegrouse
'And, of course, on the last point, football powers Nebraska, Oklahoma, Ohio State and Souterhn California all wear red'

licc85
04-04-2011, 04:28 PM
I think any candidate would have to give the Duke job serious consideration. Duke, UNC, Kansas, Kentucky and maybe one or two others are the bluebloods of college basketball. Funny, their colors are all blue as well, which is a different subject.



I'd put Indiana and UCLA in the blueblood conversation, although Indiana needs to get it together. (Kyrie was supposed to be their savior) Maybe they should change their colors to blue lol.

cspan37421
04-04-2011, 04:59 PM
Newell was the exception that proves the rule.

The phrase "the exception that proves the rule" has no logical meaning. An exception is simply that ... but I would argue that having a big man coaching the big men has itself been an exception, at least at Duke. To wit:

Some here have praised Elton Brand as being a particularly strong big man in the post for us. In 1998-99 they went 37-2. Let's see ... who were our coaches then? Coach K; Quin Snyder; David Henderson; Johnny Dawkins. Which of them was a big man?

Coach K has won 900 games. How many big men have ever been on his staff? Jay Bilas is the only one that comes to mind, and that was for merely 3 years, presumably while he was in law school (and yes, we did great things then ... but not just then, and we had some players named Hurley, Hill, and Laettner).

cspan37421
04-04-2011, 05:03 PM
C. He will not make a recommendation, even if there is a crystal clear candidate. Duke as a whole is fond of doing a "nationwide search" for important jobs. It gives the univeristy community, the alumni, and the fans the view that it was a thorough and complete search and provides the new coach a firmer base.

D. He will answer questions from the search committee but not otherwise offer advice. Of course, the nature of those answers could amount to being actively involved or staying on the sidelines, depending on the kind of advice he gives (i.e., "really good coach/recruiter" or "a really good coach for [situation X]").

I believe I've heard Coach K say publicly that he expects to be involved in the process for choosing his successor. I'm not saying that he claimed he'd handpick his successor - he didn't, he knows that's the AD's job; however, the takeaway from the interview (and sorry, I can't remember where/when it was - probably Dan Patrick) was that he expected to be a respected voice at the table, nothing more, but certainly nothing less.

anon
04-04-2011, 05:20 PM
Yeah, two Final Fours in three seasons and the best first three-year record of any coach in ACC history is something we better make sure we avoid.


with dean's players.....

Exactly. Yes, Guthridge saw initial success with the program that Dean handed him on a silver platter. He also initiated the early 2000s "lull" for UNC.

Yes, things ended up OK for UNC, as much as it pains me to say it. But I think it is rather clear that Duke can learn a lesson or two from their "transition."

cspan37421
04-04-2011, 07:04 PM
Exactly. Yes, Guthridge saw initial success with the program that Dean handed him on a silver platter. He also initiated the early 2000s "lull" for UNC.

Yes, things ended up OK for UNC, as much as it pains me to say it. But I think it is rather clear that Duke can learn a lesson or two from their "transition."

My recollection is that he had an excellent record; yes, they did horribly one year under D'oh but I always considered that a problem of chemistry (often is with UNC) rather than talent (seldom is for UNC).

But as I look at the UNC records from those years, clearly the wins declined annually under Gut. Still, it could be chemistry rather than talent. But failing to properly handle talent could, I suppose, qualify for "initiating a lull." I just usually think of poor recruiting and coaching first, but turning a bunch of McD AAs into a team can be just as challenging.

brevity
04-05-2011, 02:30 PM
A. He will not, I repeat, WILL NOT retire just before or during the the season like Dean or Big John in a transparent effort to get a trusted associate a head-coaching gig.

There may have been some pro-Guthridge reasons for Dean Smith leaving when he did, but I seem to recall an interview I read (back in the early 1990s) where Dean said he would make his retirement decision not at season's end, but before he had to start preparing for a new season. And that's basically what he ended up doing.


The phrase "the exception that proves the rule" has no logical meaning. An exception is simply that ...

Not a big fan of the phrase, and most people who use it probably don't understand it anyway, but it's not entirely illogical. The rule is so set that you'd have to search far and wide to find an exception, and that exception would have to be so outstanding and rare that it pretty much reinforces the rule.

uh_no
04-05-2011, 02:37 PM
Not a big fan of the phrase, and most people who use it probably don't understand it anyway, but it's not entirely illogical. The rule is so set that you'd have to search far and wide to find an exception, and that exception would have to be so outstanding and rare that it pretty much reinforces the rule.

The reason it is illogical is by definition, a rule doesn't have exceptions. If there is an exception, then the rule does not hold in all cases.

Example:
You must have a great regular season to win the national title.

Well it took a weird storm of events combined with an easy road lacking a single one seed for uconn to win the title, so this is the exception that proves the rule.

But, since we have an exception, the rule cannot be true by definition of a rule.

brevity
04-05-2011, 02:47 PM
The reason it is illogical is by definition, a rule doesn't have exceptions. If there is an exception, then the rule does not hold in all cases.

Example:
You must have a great regular season to win the national title.

Well it took a weird storm of events combined with an easy road lacking a single one seed for uconn to win the title, so this is the exception that proves the rule.

But, since we have an exception, the rule cannot be true by definition of a rule.

Many rules don't hold in all cases. A rule doesn't have to be absolute in order to be called a rule. If all rules were absolute, then the word "exception" would not exist.

I don't think your example works either. There's no rule that says (in college basketball) that you must have a great regular season to win the national title. That so-called rule would get disproved about half the time.

Not really sure where your UConn defensiveness figures into any of this. Anyone who diminishes ANY champion's random road to a title, be it UConn or Duke or Carolina or Kansas or Florida, is an idiot.

cspan37421
04-05-2011, 04:27 PM
Not a big fan of the phrase, and most people who use it probably don't understand it anyway, but it's not entirely illogical. The rule is so set that you'd have to search far and wide to find an exception, and that exception would have to be so outstanding and rare that it pretty much reinforces the rule.

I can infer that you are saying that the phrase is colloquial, and that rare exceptions stand out in contrast to a general "rule" (of thumb), in effect highlighting the general rule despite the disconfirming example.

But literally, the phrase states that contrary evidence is actually supporting evidence. Even more than that: that evidence against a theory not only supports the theory, but proves it. It seems to be an erroneous construction that has entered common parlance through laziness, not unlike saying "I could care less" when, in fact, you mean to say that you could not care less.

cspan37421
04-05-2011, 04:39 PM
Anyone who diminishes ANY champion's random road to a title, be it UConn or Duke or Carolina or Kansas or Florida, is an idiot.

I beg to differ. A reasonable and curious person might, as an exercise, look at the sum of the seeds (or Pomeroy/Sagarin rank) that a champion beat on the way to a title, and then rank the champions, year by year, based on that. The larger the number, presumably, the easier the path. It is beneath the standards of this board, IMO, to call such a person an idiot. The exercise produces a result, and whatever it is, it is. Perhaps those whose favorite teams fall in the bottom two quartiles of such a ranking would chafe at the comparison, but that does not make the facts "idiotic." They might also claim that even if they faced more lower seeds than normal, those lower seeds appeared because of upsets, so if they didn't beat as many higher seeds directly, they beat them indirectly by the transitive property.

Then the person you call an idiot might say, well, there's a strong element of luck in a single-elimination tournament. Those upsets might represent cases where, 8 or 9 out of 10 times, the higher seed wins. Perhaps in the case of Duke vs. AZ, Duke wins 6 or 7 of 10. But we did not the one time we faced them this year, and we went out, theoretically making UConn's regional title marginally "easier."

Point is, I disagree that pointing out inconvenient facts makes someone an idiot. Sure, they might have narcissistic motivations for pointing them out, but that's another matter. They also might not. It can be an interesting mental exercise.

roywhite
05-23-2011, 05:44 PM
Okay; here is an opening that IMO would be a great move for Collins or Wojo: Penn State

DeCellis leaving Penn State for Navy (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=6580565)

This has been a mediocre basketball program, but could be attractive for a number of reasons:
Good recruiting territory
Major conference affiliation
Building something from a low point (frankly, the cupboard is somewhat bare as Talor Battle and some other regulars depart)
Penn State plays by the rules and has not had an NCAA infraction in any sport
Good quality of life; beautiful countryside and a good college town
Student fan support can be terrific, and the rest could follow; Nittany Lion fans are hungry for a basketball winner.

Chris, Steve.....take a look at this one!

airowe
05-23-2011, 05:56 PM
I believe Wojo turned this one down the last time it was available...

tommy
05-23-2011, 06:10 PM
Okay; here is an opening that IMO would be a great move for Collins or Wojo: Penn State

DeCellis leaving Penn State for Navy (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=6580565)

This has been a mediocre basketball program, but could be attractive for a number of reasons:
Good recruiting territory
Major conference affiliation
Building something from a low point (frankly, the cupboard is somewhat bare as Talor Battle and some other regulars depart)
Penn State plays by the rules and has not had an NCAA infraction in any sport
Good quality of life; beautiful countryside and a good college town
Student fan support can be terrific, and the rest could follow; Nittany Lion fans are hungry for a basketball winner.

Chris, Steve.....take a look at this one!

I agree with you. Lots of pluses and not too many negatives really. Our guys, if they really are interested in a head coaching gig somewhere (as opposed to being content where they are for the foreseeable future) need to realize that none of these jobs that open up are perfect. They all have warts.

In any event, a MAC sports site I came upon is mentioning these guys as possible candidates for the Lions:

Marshall's Tommy Herrion
Rhode Island's Jimmy Barron
Duquesne's Ron Everhardt
TCU's Jim Christian
Ohio U.'s John Groce
James Madison's Matt Brady
and . . .
Dino Gaudio

Have any of those guys really distinguished themselves to the point that you'd rather have one of them than an up-and-comer who appears to be clearly ready, like Wojo or Chris?

johnb
05-23-2011, 06:58 PM
I'd be really surprised if our next head coach didn't start at point guard for Duke.

This isn't the same as when K came to Durham. Prior to his arrival, who would have been a decent alum choice? No one occurs to me. One of K's crucial leadership qualities is developing leadership in those he teaches. While I'm a political lefty, I have to think his experience at West Point comes into play, and he's justifiably proud that so many of his former players are making a living out of playing, teaching, and administering bball. I'd also be surprised if he didn't already have a Plan A, B, and C in regards to who he'd pick--though I'd also be surprised if he'd discussed this extensively with anyone aside from his wife.

Indoor66
05-23-2011, 07:00 PM
I'd be really surprised if our next head coach didn't start at point guard for Duke.

This isn't the same as when K came to Durham. Prior to his arrival, who would have been a decent alum choice? No one occurs to me. One of K's crucial leadership qualities is developing leadership in those he teaches. While I'm a political lefty, I have to think his experience at West Point comes into play, and he's justifiably proud that so many of his former players are making a living out of playing, teaching, and administering bball. I'd also be surprised if he didn't already have a Plan A, B, and C in regards to who he'd pick--though I'd also be surprised if he'd discussed this extensively with anyone aside from his wife.

A former player that comes to mind is Jeff Mullins - who was a successful coach after the NBA and could have been at Duke - post Bill Foster.

tommy
05-23-2011, 07:03 PM
I believe Wojo turned this one down the last time it was available...

Not necessarily determinative. Obviously the situations have significant differences, but didn't Roy turn down UNC at least once (when they hired Doh) before accepting the position the next time it was open?

roywhite
05-23-2011, 07:27 PM
I believe Wojo turned this one down the last time it was available...

DeCellis was at Penn State for 8 years. Wojo, who will turn 35 this August, was probably too young for such a job back then; he's certainly ready now.

As a Penn State fan (brother and father went there), I'd like to see their hoops program catch fire, and Wojo could be just the guy. As a Duke fan, I'd like to see Wojo (and Chris Collins) be as ready as possible for consideration for the HC job at Duke after K; this seems like a good step.

airowe
05-23-2011, 07:54 PM
Not necessarily determinative. Obviously the situations have significant differences, but didn't Roy turn down UNC at least once (when they hired Doh) before accepting the position the next time it was open?


DeCellis was at Penn State for 8 years. Wojo, who will turn 35 this August, was probably too young for such a job back then; he's certainly ready now.

As a Penn State fan (brother and father went there), I'd like to see their hoops program catch fire, and Wojo could be just the guy. As a Duke fan, I'd like to see Wojo (and Chris Collins) be as ready as possible for consideration for the HC job at Duke after K; this seems like a good step.

All very true.

Roy, you're obviously closer to the situation than I am, but I've heard Penn State called the "worst job in the Big East". Taking off the fan glasses, could you see some negatives to the head coaching spot there?

burnspbesq
05-23-2011, 08:04 PM
<<I've heard Penn State called the "worst job in the Big East". >>

It absolutely is. No basketball tradition to speak of, a difficult place to get to, a long way from major recruiting areas, facilities that aren't exactly SOTA. Northwestern would be better even if there was pressure to win. At least Carmody can recruit Chicago by car.

roywhite
05-23-2011, 08:05 PM
All very true.

Roy, you're obviously closer to the situation than I am, but I've heard Penn State called the "worst job in the Big East". Taking off the fan glasses, could you see some negatives to the head coaching spot there?

You meant Big10/12?

For discussion, some possible negatives include:

1. In the near term, the cupboard is bare; Talor Battle and some others just left, and there's nothing great on hand.
2. Recruiting players from big cities (Pittsburgh and Philadelphia to start with) has historically been difficult for Penn State in hoops; State College is a great college town, but it's in a rural setting. Now, Joe Paterno has been able to get talented kids from all over to come there, so it's certainly possible.
3. Fan support is a challenge once you get beyond the campus. See the location note above. The Harrisburg area is a 2-hour drive each way and you just don't want to do that for a Tuesday night game in January; State College winters are tough.
4. Not much hoops tradition; it's a football school (but they do great in wrestling and other "minor" sports; they're right up there in Director Cup points.)

airowe
05-23-2011, 08:14 PM
You meant Big10/12?

Yes. :o


For discussion, some possible negatives include:

1. In the near term, the cupboard is bare; Talor Battle and some others just left, and there's nothing great on hand.
2. Recruiting players from big cities (Pittsburgh and Philadelphia to start with) has historically been difficult for Penn State in hoops; State College is a great college town, but it's in a rural setting. Now, Joe Paterno has been able to get talented kids from all over to come there, so it's certainly possible.
3. Fan support is a challenge once you get beyond the campus. See the location note above. The Harrisburg area is a 2-hour drive each way and you just don't want to do that for a Tuesday night game in January; State College winters are tough.
4. Not much hoops tradition; it's a football school (but they do great in wrestling and other "minor" sports; they're right up there in Director Cup points.)

If either felt like it was the right opportunity/time to take the jump, I see both of them moving onto a head coaching job at some point in the near future so in that sense it wouldn't shock me.

That being said, I'd be surprised if either took the Penn State job. It seems as though they have it very nice at Duke at the moment and are being selective when it comes to moving on from Durham. Wojo was on the verge of an announcement that he was accepting the Dayton job before something happened and he decided to stay.

It's certainly worth watching but imo those two will be coaching on the Duke bench in 2012...

HK Dukie
05-23-2011, 09:27 PM
Anyone else notice that Collins and Wojo are associate head coaches but Capel is coming in as an assistant? How do you think they will blend in together? Capel has been a head coach but may not have the same responsibility as the other guys.

Indoor66
05-23-2011, 09:34 PM
Anyone else notice that Collins and Wojo are associate head coaches but Capel is coming in as an assistant? How do you think they will blend in together? Capel has been a head coach but may not have the same responsibility as the other guys.

I am quite sure that the head man has communicated the expectations and responsibilities to each of his associate/assistant head coaches and that they fully understand their positions. That is the mark of a good executive and K is one of the best.

lotusland
05-23-2011, 09:37 PM
I'd be really surprised if our next head coach didn't start at point guard for Duke.

This isn't the same as when K came to Durham. Prior to his arrival, who would have been a decent alum choice? No one occurs to me. One of K's crucial leadership qualities is developing leadership in those he teaches. While I'm a political lefty, I have to think his experience at West Point comes into play, and he's justifiably proud that so many of his former players are making a living out of playing, teaching, and administering bball. I'd also be surprised if he didn't already have a Plan A, B, and C in regards to who he'd pick--though I'd also be surprised if he'd discussed this extensively with anyone aside from his wife.

Are you excluding Johnny Dawkins or did he start at point for Duke at some point? I remember Amaker as PG and Dawkins playing mostly at shooting guard.

lotusland
05-23-2011, 09:42 PM
Are you excluding Johnny Dawkins or did he start at point for Duke at some point? I remember Amaker as PG and Dawkins playing mostly at shooting guard.

For that matter are you excluding Collins? Pretty sure he never started at PG.

Orange&BlackSheep
05-23-2011, 09:49 PM
I agree that the Penn St job is bad for all the reasons mentioned. My one question: if Wisconsin can recruit to Madison, why can't someone recruit to Happy Valley?

I recognize that Pitt And Philly kids have choices in a way that Milwaukee kids don't but still ...

sagegrouse
05-23-2011, 09:57 PM
For that matter are you excluding Collins? Pretty sure he never started at PG.

When Quin and JD were both assistants to K, the play-by-play guy referred to K being surrounded by assistants who were point guards, just like him. Jay Bilas, doing the color commentary, then asked, referring to Dawkins, "If a player is a point guard, isn't he supposed to pass you the ball occasionally?"

sagegrouse
'In fact, JD did lead the team in assists his freshman year (4.8 per game).'

roywhite
05-23-2011, 10:17 PM
I agree that the Penn St job is bad for all the reasons mentioned. My one question: if Wisconsin can recruit to Madison, why can't someone recruit to Happy Valley?

I recognize that Pitt And Philly kids have choices in a way that Milwaukee kids don't but still ...

I like State College, but it's a college town of approx. 39,000 people in a rural area; Madison is the state capital of Wisconsin and a city of over 230,000 people.

I do agree with the idea that it's not a hopeless concept to recruit well for basketball at Penn State. Just need 3 good prospects per class.

HK Dukie
05-23-2011, 10:17 PM
I am quite sure that the head man has communicated the expectations and responsibilities to each of his associate/assistant head coaches and that they fully understand their positions. That is the mark of a good executive and K is one of the best.

Agreed. I'm just wondering what those different responsibilities are and wondered if other people realized Capel was not coming in at the same level as Collins/Wojo as had been reported a few times.

SCMatt33
05-23-2011, 10:32 PM
I agree that the Penn St job is bad for all the reasons mentioned. My one question: if Wisconsin can recruit to Madison, why can't someone recruit to Happy Valley?

I recognize that Pitt And Philly kids have choices in a way that Milwaukee kids don't but still ...

It depends on what you mean by "recruiting." Since the RSCI started in 1998, Wisconsin has recruited a grand total of 4 top 75 players, including 3 in the top 50, and just 1 top 25 player. Of those four, 2 were from Wisconsin, 1 from South Dakota, and 1 from Iowa. All time, they have recruited just 3 McD's AA's. They are a perfect example of how you win when you're not in fertile recruiting ground and don't have national appeal. You have to get a coach who will recruit to a system and can implement it with a bunch of 3 star talent, and occasional 4 star players. Penn State's next coach can't go in with the mind set to try and do what Steve Lavin or Mike Rice are doing at St. John's and Rutgers. He will have to coach the hell out of borderline high major guys, which Wisconsin among others has shown can be done very effectively.

OZZIE4DUKE
05-23-2011, 11:30 PM
I think if Wojo or Collins were the HC at PSU then either of them would start to get higher quality recruits, simply because of their name recognition (to go along with the hard work and style of ball (Duke ball) they'd be playing. I hope one of them is interested in the job.

msdukie
05-23-2011, 11:54 PM
I agree that the Penn St job is bad for all the reasons mentioned. My one question: if Wisconsin can recruit to Madison, why can't someone recruit to Happy Valley?



Because Wisconsin cares about basketball. The Penn State administration's interest in basketball makes Miami look like Kentucky in comparison.

CameronBornAndBred
05-24-2011, 12:23 AM
I like State College, but it's a college town of approx. 39,000 people in a rural area; Madison is the state capital of Wisconsin and a city of over 230,000 people.

I do agree with the idea that it's not a hopeless concept to recruit well for basketball at Penn State. Just need 3 good prospects per class.
Yup, State College is a rural college town. With a HUMONGOUS football stadium. Which is filled with Penn State fans. So the base is there, now a basketball coach just needs to attract recruits and fans in to fill the stands. (The new coach should talk to Coach Cut a bit about strategy in that department.)
As far as the numbers, in 2009 Durham had less than Madison with a total of just under 230K. In 2000 it was under 190K, in 1990 it was 136K. At that rate, Durham was probably under 100K when K got here! (These are city numbers, I'm sure if you add in the county it goes up, but it probably goes up for State College and Madison too.)
http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/SAFFPopulation?_event=ChangeGeoContext&geo_id=16000US3719000&_geoContext=01000US&_street=&_county=durham&_cityTown=durham&_state=04000US37&_zip=&_lang=en&_sse=on&ActiveGeoDiv=geoSelect&_useEV=&pctxt=fph&pgsl=010&_submenuId=population_0&ds_name=null&_ci_nbr=null&qr_name=null&reg=null%3Anull&_keyword=&_industry=
So a nationally known school, with a huge fan base, that has a bad basketball team, is a bad choice why? If you think you can prove something; if you think you can do somehting, it's sounds like a good place to me. Hell, if either Wojo or Collins ever entertains a real head coaching job, just hope they don't do it in a place so small or bad as Penn State. They might as well go coach at Harvard.

Oh, wait...

Wildcat
05-24-2011, 01:10 PM
Why haven't they landed a head coaching spot somewhere? It has to be a rumor mill floating aropund as to why they haven't landed a head coaching position. What are their
weaknesses. Both have longer and broader coaching experiences that Archie Miller. What
did Dayton see that they chose Miller with less experience?

superdave
05-24-2011, 01:11 PM
A guy at work who's a PSU fan just asked me about Collins/Wojo possibilities. I suggested Keith Booth instead. Anyone know where Booth is now that Coach Gary has departed? This is not a very good head coaching job...

SmartDevil
05-24-2011, 01:56 PM
Why haven't they landed a head coaching spot somewhere? It has to be a rumor mill floating aropund as to why they haven't landed a head coaching position. What are their
weaknesses. Both have longer and broader coaching experiences that Archie Miller. What
did Dayton see that they chose Miller with less experience?

Why assume there is some kind of negative information circulating about them? What is the basis for that?

Both Wojo and Chris will leave for a head coaching job when the right opportunity presents itself. I don't know whether or not Dayton was interested in either of them, but the Dayton job might not have been of interest to either of them.

Right now they are both no doubt enjoying and further honing their experience at the hand of the best coach in the country and very possibly the best coach of all time. What a valuable learning experience! And, no doubt, what an exciting job.

I think both of them know that in order someday to have a chance to ascend to the throne they are going to have to go out and prove themselves as capable of being top dog by making an outstanding showing as a head coach elsewhere.

The day will come and probably within the next year or two. But let us revel in our good fortune to have them now--for it won't last indefinitely. And let's respect their judgment about when it is time to go and to where.

sagegrouse
05-24-2011, 02:18 PM
Why haven't they landed a head coaching spot somewhere? It has to be a rumor mill floating aropund as to why they haven't landed a head coaching position. What are their
weaknesses. Both have longer and broader coaching experiences that Archie Miller. What
did Dayton see that they chose Miller with less experience?

Mr. Wildcat:

I dunno the answer to your question, but I am trying to figure how many head coaching positions in the BCS conferences (where the money is best) have gone to assistant coaches (who were never head coaches) and at other schools (not just a promotion from the bench to a surprise vacancy). Johnny Dawkins at Stanford, for sure, but who else? None of the vacant ACC jobs in the past ten years have gone to assistants from elsewhere.

WRT to Archie Miller at Dayton: I don't think that is a job to which Chris or Wojo would apply or that would necessarily pay better than their current situation.

sagegrouse

BD80
05-24-2011, 02:48 PM
If not PSU, then where?

The easternmost Big whatever school with a strong athletic department and solid academics. How many BCS jobs come open that will hire an assistant?

How many high-level non-BCS schools will hire an assistant?

Even then, most of those jobs will go to up-and-coming coaches who pay dues at smaller schools - schools that Wojo and Collins seem to be passing up.

If neither takes PSU, what jobs would they take?

roywhite
05-24-2011, 03:54 PM
If not PSU, then where?

The easternmost Big whatever school with a strong athletic department and solid academics. How many BCS jobs come open that will hire an assistant?

How many high-level non-BCS schools will hire an assistant?

Even then, most of those jobs will go to up-and-coming coaches who pay dues at smaller schools - schools that Wojo and Collins seem to be passing up.

If neither takes PSU, what jobs would they take?

In other words, Don't nit-pick, pick the Nits. :)

I'm partial to Penn State, but I agree with your main point. It could be a good opportunity, and the timing seems about right for Wojo and Collins to move to the next thing. Well, I'll qualify that....if they want to be serious candidates for Duke post-K, they should get out and run their own program. Even one that doesn't seem like a perfect job.

-jk
05-24-2011, 04:05 PM
Wouldn't surprise me if they wanted to work one more olympics before moving on.

-jk

superdave
05-24-2011, 04:08 PM
Wouldn't surprise me if they wanted to work one more olympics before moving on.

-jk

Great point. Rubbing elbows with Durant, Rose and Griffin would make for some good stories to share on the recruiting trail.

And as Coach K says "Go somewhere that is worthy of your passion."

cato
05-24-2011, 04:18 PM
Well, I'll qualify that....if they want to be serious candidates for Duke post-K, they should get out and run their own program.

This is a question that I haven't seem many people stop to consider. Most people seem to assume that Collins' and Wojo's main goal is to take over as the next coach at Duke. Who knows if that is even the case? They probably know, much better than the rest of us, the extraordinary challenges that will face Coach K's successor.

At any rate, even if that is their ultimate goal, they obviously know that only one person can fill that slot, and that they are probably behind JD among Coach K's recent associates. Given the long odds, the possibility that they are very happy in their current situation, and the significant upheaval in their family lives that a change in jobs would entail, it does not surprise me that they have not yet jumped ship.

Also, as jk noted, they may want another shot at coaching Kyrie.

NSDukeFan
05-24-2011, 04:26 PM
In other words, Don't nit-pick, pick the Nits. :)

I'm partial to Penn State, but I agree with your main point. It could be a good opportunity, and the timing seems about right for Wojo and Collins to move to the next thing. Well, I'll qualify that....if they want to be serious candidates for Duke post-K, they should get out and run their own program. Even one that doesn't seem like a perfect job.

I bolded what I thought was a key point. There seems to be a fair bit of talk about the need for Collins and Wojo needing to get out and get head coaching experience NOW if they want to have a shot at the head coaching job at Duke when it becomes available (hopefully in 10-20 years.)

It would certainly be great to make sure there are all these solid candidates that will have had head coaching experience when the position opens up. What about for these hypothetical candidates? Should they all be striving to have the best resume possible for this position that nobody knows when it will arise and who the candidates will be? Would these coaches want to follow coach K? (What a tough task that would be.) My point is that we all want to make sure there is a great coach, or many great candidates with excellent experience available when coach K steps down. What happens to the other candidates who do not get that position? Should they currently be making decisions that give them the best chance for this position or doing what they would most like to do and get the best experience they can? (Say, for example, there was the best coach in the country somewhere they could learn from running perhaps the best program in the country and an opportunity to also coach the best players in the world.)

I obviously have no idea about the answers to these questions, I am just suggesting that maybe Wojo and Collins are doing what is best for them both now and in the future.

Edit: I see Cato made many, if not all, the same points I did.

CameronBornAndBred
05-24-2011, 06:20 PM
(Say, for example, there was the best coach in the country somewhere they could learn from running perhaps the best program in the country and an opportunity to also coach the best players in the world.)

At some point you have to stop being the student and become the teacher. I want very much for our next coach to have proven themselves as a successful leader and teacher, and to experience running a program on their own. There is experience there that can't be taught by another, no matter how great of a teacher K may be.

tommy
05-24-2011, 06:27 PM
At any rate, even if that is their ultimate goal, they obviously know that only one person can fill that slot, and that they are probably behind JD among Coach K's recent associates.

At this point, I think a lot of Devils' fans would not be ready to give Johnny D. the keys to the car. He has not been a big success at Stanford, at least not so far, and until he proves that he can run a very successful program on his own, hiring him would likely be seen as a significant gamble. Good thing is, K doesn't appear to be leaving anytime soon, so Johnny and others have time to improve their skills and polish their resumes, and prove that they're ready for something as demanding as the Duke job.

Indoor66
05-24-2011, 06:48 PM
At this point in time I think Jeff Capel has the best chance for the keys to the car. He has the experience. Now he gets to prove himself to the chief.

OZZIE4DUKE
05-24-2011, 06:53 PM
While I hope/expect Coach K to be our coach for the next 7 to 10 years, as I have said in many threads of this type before, God forbid something happened and we needed a coach next season, I'd be very comfortable with either Chris or Wojo taking over as an interim head coach, with the possibility of the title becoming permanent if the situation warranted. And yes, even with Jeff Capel now on the staff, as he is new on the staff, for the interim coach I'd take Wojo or Chris over Jeff, despite Jeff's head coaching experience. Depending on the "interim" results, I might open up the longer term position to Jeff and other candidates, maybe not, again depending on the results. I certainly wouldn't expect a "Pete Gaudet type" season.

Here's wishing Coach K continued good health for many years, and continued enthusiasm for coaching Duke! :cool:

duke09hms
05-24-2011, 07:04 PM
As to why Wojo and Collins have not yet left for head coaching jobs, it seems it's a matter of perspective. One side says it's entirely because "the right job hasn't opened up yet." And the other side wonders "what is their problem that they aren't getting hired?"

Ehh I'm ambivalent and think it's probably a combination of both. It's kind of snooty to think all the jobs of the last few years aren't "good enough" for them, but we also know they're accomplished ASSISTANT coaches who deserve a head coach position somewhere.

I do think it is in Duke's long-term interest for them to leave soon. K's coaching tree isn't exactly all that developed with only Brey as the unmitigated success. Amaker is moving on up at Harvard, Capel certainly was great until that tough stretch recently at OK, and Johnny D too soon to tell at Stanford. Paulus is too young and is just trying to get a job as video coordinator at OSU, and Quin Snyder will be untouchable for at least a while.

It would also be good for the program to bring in some new blood, new ideas, new challenges. For example, I'm going to miss seeing NateDogg on the bench. And I sorta feel bad for Carrawell being "relegated" to the women's team - don't think that's exactly what he expected coming back to Duke. The duke bench is getting long, and it's time for the older guys to move on.

Personally, I expect them to be with us until the 2013 season because coaching Team USA and taking over a new program would be too much. After the 2012 Olympics they'll probably be at Duke for the upcoming season, then I hope Collins and Wojo catch on to the 2013 Spring coaching carousel to lead their own programs elsewhere.

tbyers11
05-25-2011, 11:33 PM
As duke09hms put forth above, Jeff Goodman reports (http://twitter.com/#!/GoodmanCBS/status/73532145414582272) via sources that Greg is officially going to be the video coordinator at Ohio State. I think Goodman's sources are pretty good on this one as Greg "interned" with him a while back.

Its a step down from being an actual assistant coach but Ohio St is a big step up from Navy in overall status. With Navy's head coach leaving to be head assistant at Villanova and DeChellis taking over at Navy so late in the game, this was probably about as good as Greg could hope for. I'm sure he'll work hard and be ready to move forward when the opportunity arises.

It will be strange to see Paulus sitting behind the opposing bench when the Devils travel to Columbus for the Big10/12-ACC Challenge on November 29th.