MBB NCAA Final: Connecticut 53, Butler 41 [Archive]

uh_no

04-03-2011, 12:07 AM

Monday night tip set for 9:23 pm eastern...

Thoughts? Keys to the game? Which player steals the show? An unsung hero? Prediction?

Uconn will be tired. It was clear watching them that UK took a LOT out of them, more than Ithink VCU took out of butler (nothing against VCU). I think the key to the game oriakhi vs howard...everyone knows about uconn's guards...but tonight oriakhi went for 8 and 10....those rebounds down the stretch were huge. Both teams are great rebounding teams, and I think the fight down low on the glass will be all important

not sure about unsung hero....I sing about uconn all day, so for me, this one would have to come from butler...just not sure who

prediction? gosh it depends so much on how uconn can recover from tonight....butler is disciplined....gonna have to with uconn

Son of Mojo

04-03-2011, 12:20 AM

With all my heart...........

GO BUTLER!!!!!!

loran16

04-03-2011, 12:32 AM

I think Butler can limit Kemba to a performance like today. The question will be whether Butler can limit the supporting cast that has improved all season for UConn

Bluedog

04-03-2011, 12:37 AM

It will be a close one. That's the only way Butler knows how to play. I think the big keys will be offensive rebounding and defending the three. If Butler can hold its own on the glass and doesn't give up open looks, they have a good shot. I'm not as concerned with their interior D and help defense because they're incredibly well-coached and have been doing those things well all tournament.

Another question: can UConn fill more than 25% of their assigned student section for the National Championship game? Where were they tonight? I believe they also get UKs/VCUs empty seats (well, have of them anyways) so there's even more space available on Monday. Maybe it'll be 10% full. Very odd...Check out the UConn section:

http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/large/269255008.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJF3XCCKACR3QDMOA&Expires=1301804296&Signature=nt8Bl%2BBb%2FOXmoni17OUPD9gr%2B94%3D

OZZIE4DUKE

04-03-2011, 12:45 AM

uh_no

04-03-2011, 01:25 AM

Another question: can UConn fill more than 25% of their assigned student section for the National Championship game? Where were they tonight? I believe they also get UKs/VCUs empty seats (well, have of them anyways) so there's even more space available on Monday. Maybe it'll be 10% full. Very odd...Check out the UConn section:

It's no sunday drive from storrs to houston...a 30 hour drive..almost twice as far as it is from butler. I can fully understand why students wouldn't be able to make a trip like that. Last year we were blessed with 4 teams all within driving distance of indianapolis, and that showed in 4 packed student sections. I don't have the stats, but i believe schools get 500 student tickets (that was last year's number, though to me at least, this years section appeared a bit bigger...not sure). I can see how difficult it would be to find 500 students willing to make the commitment (and who had the available resources) to make such a trip.

You are correct (assuming its the same as last year). For the semis, half of your student section is courtside and the other half is up in the nosebleeds. For the championship, the whole student section is downstairs for the playing teams. Stinks that uconn is so far out in the middle of nowhere....(i mean...i know how it is living there for 18 years....)

devildeac

04-03-2011, 07:06 AM

Let's go Bulldogs: clap, clap, clap/clap/clap!

dukelifer

04-03-2011, 07:34 AM

This is a tough call. Butler is a tough team to play and Mack can get hot. Kemba did not have a "Kemba" game and it is hard to limit great players two games in a row. Still, it is hard to imagine this will not be a close game down the stretch. I will take Bulter in a last minute win.

RoyalBlue08

04-03-2011, 09:47 AM

I think UConn is a much better matchup for Butler than Kentucky would have been. I like Butler's chances in this one.

rsvman

04-03-2011, 10:34 AM

I sure hope it's Butler.

I rooted for VCU yesterday, but now I have to turn around and root for Butler, because I can't stand UConn.

-bdbd

04-03-2011, 10:48 AM

I think UConn is a much better matchup for Butler than Kentucky would have been. I like Butler's chances in this one.

I was thinking the same thing all week. I had fully expected Butler to emerge from their semi, but knew that the other would be a dog, er, cat fight. KY was favored in their semi and I thought had more raw talent. Butler was going to be an underdog regardless of the opponent in the finals. But I thought KY woulda been favored by, maybe, 4 points more.

So, while certainly no fan of the cons, I dislike KY just as much. So, in the end, it worked out just fine. All we need is Butler to execute the final part of this eviil plan. They DO match up better with U-Con. Who guards Walker? I think Butler has the dogs to hang inside with the Huskies, but can they run as well on the exterior??

I expect a tough, hard fought game on both sides. Here's hoping Butler can find someone to hit that shot this year... That would be perfect.

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Let's go Bull-dogs (clap-clap, clap-clap-clap)

(repeat)

Duke: A Dynasty

04-03-2011, 10:51 AM

70-62 Butler!!!!

Dev11

04-03-2011, 11:06 AM

70-62 Butler!!!!

62-61 Butler. Sweet redemption as Mack makes the long three at regulation to secure the victory.

hurleyfor3

04-03-2011, 01:10 PM

You are correct (assuming its the same as last year). For the semis, half of your student section is courtside and the other half is up in the nosebleeds. For the championship, the whole student section is downstairs for the playing teams. Stinks that uconn is so far out in the middle of nowhere....(i mean...i know how it is living there for 18 years....)

At last year's Final Four, the upper four or five rows of one section waaaaay in the upper deck were filled with Michigan State fans acting differently from everyone else nearby -- they were all wearing similar clothing, standing during most of their game with Butler, cheering especially vehemently, etc. On Monday night, these seats were empty. Now I see this was probably the "other" MSU student section. I didn't see any other similar student sections up there, but from my seat in the Duke section (100 level, even with the baseline) two of the sections wouldn't have been in my field of view, and the third would have been far away and/or blocked by the scoreboard.

Do you know how it was determined who got to sit on the floor and who got section 867, row QQ or whatever? That's about the biggest delta possible in a 70,000-seat stadium.

uh_no

04-03-2011, 01:17 PM

At last year's Final Four, the upper four or five rows of one section waaaaay in the upper deck were filled with Michigan State fans acting differently from everyone else nearby -- they were all wearing similar clothing, standing during most of their game with Butler, cheering especially vehemently, etc. On Monday night, these seats were empty. Now I see this was probably the "other" MSU student section. I didn't see any other similar student sections up there, but from my seat in the Duke section (100 level, even with the baseline) two of the sections wouldn't have been in my field of view, and the third would have been far away and/or blocked by the scoreboard.

Do you know how it was determined who got to sit on the floor and who got section 867, row QQ or whatever? That's about the biggest delta possible in a 70,000-seat stadium.

The students sections upstairs were spread across the stadium...so MSU migh have been in one section, and duke all the way across the stadium.

first come first serve for the floor...i made sure i got there like 5-6 horus early

hurleyfor3

04-03-2011, 01:31 PM

first come first serve for the floor...i made sure i got there like 5-6 horus early

Oh wow, and no alcoholic beverages once you're in... not sure sitting up there is worth it. Actually after wandering around the stadium before Monday night's game I *know* sitting up there isn't worth it.

marinbobbyduhon

04-03-2011, 01:32 PM

I think UConn is a much better matchup for Butler than Kentucky would have been. I like Butler's chances in this one.

I certainly hope that you are right. To my mind, if UConn wins the NCAAT, that would make the NCCA look even worse than it does now. Auburn won the NCCA Football Championship game, and I for one think Auburn should have been ineligible (Cam Newton is not alone in the matter of payment for play) and then UConn winning with Calhoun suffering the consequences of the pay for play with Miles not going into effect until next season - this would leave a bad taste in my mouth.
Who says crime doesn't pay?!

So please Butler, beat Conn tomorrow night and restore some decency to College sports again!

Cameron

04-03-2011, 02:13 PM

This has been an excellently crafted run by head coach Jim Calhoun, but can you imagine what Connecticut could be doing right now if they had Nate Miles for whom they paid big bucks? The Huskies could probably win the World Series with that kind of talent.

Yes, a fine day for the community of Storrs and its probationary basketball leader.

Chris Randolph

04-03-2011, 02:24 PM

Butler 61-59 ;)

marinbobbyduhon

04-03-2011, 02:43 PM

Butler 61-59 ;)

And Kemba missing a half court shot at the buzzer after Oriahki sets a viscious pick on Howard! :o

Cameron

04-03-2011, 03:27 PM

And Kemba missing a half court shot at the buzzer after Oriahki sets a viscious pick on Howard! ;)

It ALMOST went in, it almost went in!

Kemba missing from half-court on an air ball to lose Jim Calhoun's last national championship game appearance would be the greatest stop-short since Frank Costanza. I for one hope it happens this way. Give Jim and Kemba some hope that they they finally did it, finally reached the Final Four and finally won it all (God I hate that line; if you don't remember it, that was Jim Nantz's cute line after the '99 championship game). I want those two guys' dreams crushed and I want to see crying. Doubt you'll get it out of those two emotionally-stunted droids, however. Listening to a Kemba Walker interview is like watching a rock try to participate in conversation.

striker219

04-03-2011, 06:50 PM

Let's Go Butler!

It's like happens so often in the Super Bowl. A team gets there for the first time and loses, but when it gets there again the next year, it wins. Not the Buffalo Bills, of course, but just about every other team! Hmmm. Let's hope there isn't a BB curse - Buffalo Bills, Butler Bulldogs. Nah, Butler will take care of business on Monday night!

You know, if Butler is still following the Milan High School path to success demonstrated in Hoosiers they should take care of business. Although the movie obviously didn't show it, Milan won the state championship in 1954 after losing in the semi-final in 1953. Yeah, I know, Butler lost in the final last year, not the semi-final, but it's close enough for me.

Fun related fact, any time a Carolina fan mentions four-corners as one of the many wondrous innovations bestowed upon the game of basketball by the great and powerful Dean Smith, feel free to mention that particular 1953-54 Milan High School team which rode the strengths of a four-corners/stall offense to a state title (they called it "cat-and-mouse"). That includes a stretch of over four minutes near the end of the championship game where Bobby Plump (the real life Jimmy Chitwood) just stood at the top of the key, ball in hand, before missing a shot, and on their next possession another solid minute of standing still with the ball before hitting the game-winner.

While not the first time this type of offense was used, it is one of the better known situations.

SoCalDukeFan

04-03-2011, 07:13 PM

uh_no

04-03-2011, 07:18 PM

Calhoun is one of the best if not the best game coaches in college basketball.

He will have the Uconnvicts well prepared.

Of course, Brad Stevens is pretty good also.

Walker is the best player in the game. Butler actually has more experience.

Go Bulldogs

SoCal

While calhoun is no doubt a great in game coach, I don't think I'd call him best. That said, uconns lack of experience hasn't hurt them thus far, I think part of it is that the super freshmen don't realize they're supposed to be inexperienced.

What I'm worried about is fatigue for uconn. We saw it yesterday, will it comme back to bite them?

Cameron

04-04-2011, 03:06 AM

“You’re known by the company you keep.” –Jim Calhoun last night on SportsCenter

And if by "company you keep" you mean Danny Almonte, CCNY, Tiger Woods, Charles Ponzi, Shoeless Joe Jackson and Al Capone (minus the mass murder), then I agree.

Laughing out loud at you, Jim. You are a cheat and will always be remembered for being a cheat. With your marvelous record of compliance, we should probably check and see if the equipment in Storrs is even regulation. Who knows, you might have been using nerf balls.

Please, if you're up there listening, Wilt, Pistol and the rest of the basketball Gods, let Butler win this game. Keep this game pure and let one of the greatest stories in the sport's history unfold. Let the Milan Indians' run 57 years ago in the Indiana state basketball tournament prove prophetic. What a wonderful story it would be.

flyingdutchdevil

04-04-2011, 05:47 AM

Don't like UCon. Never have, never will. Will be rooting for Butler all the way.

That said, I really like Kemba Walker. He seems like a great guy. I remember watching that interview between Nolan, Jimmer, and Kemba and all the three of them did was praise one another. He's such an exciting player. This may be the first time that I like a UCon player. It's a strange feeling.

Papa John

04-04-2011, 06:54 AM

With your marvelous record of compliance, we should probably check and see if the equipment in Storrs is even regulation.

Actually, given past behavior of some of Calhoun's recruits, we should probably check and see if the equipment in Storrs is still there. ;)

Nrrrrvous

04-04-2011, 08:55 AM

Actually, given past behavior of some of Calhoun's recruits, we should probably check and see if the equipment in Storrs is still there. ;)

I just snorted cheerios milk out my nose...

Billy Dat

04-04-2011, 10:05 AM

As a Duke fan, disliking UConn is a given (sans fans of both teams such as uh_no), and I certainly don't want Jim Calhoun winning a third ring, but I have to say that this UConn team is a lot more likeable than past elite UConn teams. There is a remarkable lack of woofing, shucking and jiving. Kemba Walker is really fun to watch, as is the rest of the perimeter with Lamb and Napier. I am rooting for Butler, but I don't find myself detesting the UConn players. I feel the same way about Kentucky, they just seemed a little more humble this year, but I guess that's easy compared to last year with Demarcus Cousins.

I echo the sentiment of those who feel like Butler is going to win. They play great defense, and they make big plays when they need to, especially Matt Howard. That kid's nose is always right in the action in the biggest spots. He plays ugly, but he defines winner.

For the match-ups, it is a perimeter tour du force with Walker/Lamb/Napier against Mack/Vanzant/Nored. I haven't paid close enough attention to Butler's rotations, but why does that kid Stigall start over Nored? Whatever, against UConn's talent, I am sure Nored's going to get most of those minutes. While I think UConn has the talent advantage, it's not huge and Butler has much more experience so I think it's a draw.

Up front, I think Howard is the best player by far because, again, he just knows what needs to be done to get the W. UConn did a great job in the semi getting points for their bigs. The big Nigerian kid, Okwandu, had a really unexpected solid game. On the Butler side, they got NOTHING from Andrew Smith...how many layups did he miss? I think they are more dynamic with Marshall in for Smith so it will be interesting to see who gets the more critical minutes. In typical Butler fashion, I see Howard staying out of foul trouble until midway through the second half when he'll pick up a few in rapid succession but somehow figure out how to play the last 5-6 minutes with 4 fouls and still make big plays. So, a frontcourt nod to Butler because of Howard.

From a coaching perspective, I give the edge to Calhoun because of experience, and I also happen to think he is an excellent in-game coach (as '99 and '04), but Stevens seems to be below no one in anything save experience...what a prodigy he is.

That leaves everything else, and I feel like Butler plays better team defense. Obviously, both teams have showed that they know how to win close games. It just feels like Butler is back for a reason, and while the hoops gods can be really cruel, it doesn't feel like they are back to be runner-ups again.

bjornolf

04-04-2011, 10:31 AM

There is a remarkable lack of woofing, shucking and jiving. Kemba Walker is really fun to watch, as is the rest of the perimeter with Lamb and Napier.

What about Walker's flop after the shoulder bump that got the technical and changed the momentum of the SDSU game? What about the three-fingered monocle after he made the three-pointer? Or getting in the Texas player's face? It seems like every time I see Kemba, he's doing something to bring attention to himself or denigrate his opponent.

And if this ain't shuckin' and jivin', I don't know what is: ;)
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Dt-dwpUKgiE/TZh8Jqgr6FI/AAAAAAAAAJI/Gr_Ridgs9Xw/s320/kemba.walker.jpg

This wasn't the same finger time as I was thinking of, but he's doing the same thing:
http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/000/823/681/110030239_display_image.jpg?1301538588

mehmattski

04-04-2011, 11:09 AM

What about Walker's flop after the shoulder bump that got the technical and changed the momentum of the SDSU game? What about the three-fingered monocle after he made the three-pointer? Or getting in the Texas player's face? It seems like every time I see Kemba, he's doing something to bring attention to himself or denigrate his opponent.

And if this ain't shuckin' and jivin', I don't know what is: ;)
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Dt-dwpUKgiE/TZh8Jqgr6FI/AAAAAAAAAJI/Gr_Ridgs9Xw/s320/kemba.walker.jpg

This wasn't the same finger time as I was thinking of, but he's doing the same thing:
http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/000/823/681/110030239_display_image.jpg?1301538588

To be fair, Nolan Smith and Seth Curry were doing the "three-finger monocle" thing all season. Often, it was in front of opposing teams benches.

Duvall

04-04-2011, 11:12 AM

What about Walker's flop after the shoulder bump that got the technical and changed the momentum of the SDSU game? What about the three-fingered monocle after he made the three-pointer? Or getting in the Texas player's face? It seems like every time I see Kemba, he's doing something to bring attention to himself or denigrate his opponent.

And if this ain't shuckin' and jivin', I don't know what is: ;)
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Dt-dwpUKgiE/TZh8Jqgr6FI/AAAAAAAAAJI/Gr_Ridgs9Xw/s320/kemba.walker.jpg

Surely that's Midnight Madness. That hardly counts as taunting, since there's no other team there.

uh_no

04-04-2011, 11:13 AM

To be fair, Nolan Smith and Seth Curry were doing the "three-finger monocle" thing all season. Often, it was in front of opposing teams benches.

I brought that up and posted a couple videos. while i don't really appreciate that kind of thing, I can't blame kids for getting excited when they make a big shot/big dunk. There's a ton of adrenaline and people at all levels of the sport due stuff like that (the worst is in the NFL where people do dances for everything....pick up 1 yard running BETTER CELEBRATE.

Anyway, I just wish so many people here wouldn't criticize kemba for the same thing duke players do. it amazes me that despite doing so many things right, how many people on this board go to the ends of the earth to find things not to like about the kid.

Jeff Frosh

04-04-2011, 11:47 AM

To me, this is one of the easiest choices for who to root for when Duke is not playing for the national championship. We all know the numerous and valid reasons to root for Butler and against UCon. This is good vs. evil, the Rebels against the Evil Empire, the U.S. vs. the Soviet Union, God vs. the (non-Blue) devil. Not to mention that I feel that K should have 6 championships and Calhoun should have none. The thought of him getting his 3rd is disgusting.

GO BUTLER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

uh_no

04-04-2011, 11:58 AM

This is good vs. evil, the Rebels against the Evil Empire, the U.S. vs. the Soviet Union, God vs. the devil.

So you were rooting for butler last year???

I kid. I kid.

Jeff Frosh

04-04-2011, 12:12 PM

So you were rooting for butler last year???

I kid. I kid.

I know you kid you kid. I was careful to say "when Duke is not playing"! I am like everyone else: I love Butler, as long as they are not playing your team. I enjoyed your "Calipari free throw" comment.

uh_no

04-04-2011, 12:26 PM

I know you kid you kid. I was careful to say "when Duke is not playing"! I am like everyone else: I love Butler, as long as they are not playing your team. I enjoyed your "Calipari free throw" comment.

I think part of what i was trying to convey is that most of the non butler, non duke, non uconn fans of the world view this as the same matchup: upstart butler who nobody thought could do it against one of the winningest coaches at a powerhouse school. Both years nobody expected the other team to get there, yet they still find themselves losing the 'cinderella' role because they ran into an even BIGGER cinderella. I think there is certainly folly in that argument, especially due to uconn's past transgressions. Despite uconn clearly being the more 'evil' of the two in terms of how the program is run, that is likely not the general view around the country as duke is the 'evil empire' in a win all the time like the yankees sort of way. I hate that people think that about duke, just as i hate that people think that every uconn player is a bad person.

bjornolf

04-04-2011, 01:58 PM

Surely that's Midnight Madness. That hardly counts as taunting, since there's no other team there.

Note I said this was "shuckin' and jivin'" and put a winky face. I was just laughing along with the dancing on that one. I wasn't saying he was taunting there. I was trying to be funny. Sorry. I hate that these new smilies all look so much alike. It loses all the nuance.

bjornolf

04-04-2011, 02:01 PM

I think part of what i was trying to convey is that most of the non butler, non duke, non uconn fans of the world view this as the same matchup: upstart butler who nobody thought could do it against one of the winningest coaches at a powerhouse school. Both years nobody expected the other team to get there, yet they still find themselves losing the 'cinderella' role because they ran into an even BIGGER cinderella. I think there is certainly folly in that argument, especially due to uconn's past transgressions. Despite uconn clearly being the more 'evil' of the two in terms of how the program is run, that is likely not the general view around the country as duke is the 'evil empire' in a win all the time like the yankees sort of way. I hate that people think that about duke, just as i hate that people think that every uconn player is a bad person.

I think one thing that makes us like Butler so much is that they REMIND us of the Duke teams of the late 80s, early 90s. Back then, Duke was a small school, upstart team, almost a mid-major, that was trying to play with the big boys, that kept getting to the sweet 16, elite 8, or even final 4, but couldn't win it all. Duke got DEMOLISHED by UNLV, then came back the next year and won the championship back to back, starting two decades of dominance not seen outside of UCLA. Will Butler do that? I don't know, but they seem to be headed in the right direction. I think that's why we like Butler so much. It recalls our memories of our own guys from 20 years ago.

bjornolf

04-04-2011, 02:03 PM

I brought that up and posted a couple videos. while i don't really appreciate that kind of thing, I can't blame kids for getting excited when they make a big shot/big dunk. There's a ton of adrenaline and people at all levels of the sport due stuff like that (the worst is in the NFL where people do dances for everything....pick up 1 yard running BETTER CELEBRATE.

Anyway, I just wish so many people here wouldn't criticize kemba for the same thing duke players do. it amazes me that despite doing so many things right, how many people on this board go to the ends of the earth to find things not to like about the kid.

I guess I missed our guys doing the monocle thing. I am NOT a fan of that kind of thing at all. Either way, I think it was the shoulder bump during a timeout thing against SDSU that REALLY got my goat. Reminded me too much of something a guy like Rodman used to try to pull. Ah, well, nobody's perfect.

uh_no

04-04-2011, 03:16 PM

I guess I missed our guys doing the monocle thing. I am NOT a fan of that kind of thing at all. Either way, I think it was the shoulder bump during a timeout thing against SDSU that REALLY got my goat. Reminded me too much of something a guy like Rodman used to try to pull. Ah, well, nobody's perfect.

Acting to get a call is an old past-time in sports, and something which I don't have a problem with. This is something which Duke tends to excel at, in fact. If something is legal and will increase your chances of winning, I see no problem with it, even if it is frowned upon (as flopping generally is). We've had some of the best here at duke, and I personally think it's genius to do.

Need I remind you of this incident?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0upQDkY-pg

When someone says "but duke flops all the time so they get all the calls," my response is "well if you get calls from it, how come your team isn't smart enough to do it too?" While I can't stand the whole shoulder bump stuff that goes on (it happens in almost all college games during free throws....sort of a dominance thing i guess? i don't get it), Kemba made a conscious decision to do what he did and he got his team two points from it. Maybe it's cheap (so is flopping on charges) but it gave his team a better chance to win, and I can't fault a kid for that.

NSDukeFan

04-04-2011, 03:25 PM

Note I said this was "shuckin' and jivin'" and put a winky face. I was just laughing along with the dancing on that one. I wasn't saying he was taunting there. I was trying to be funny. Sorry. I hate that these new smilies all look so much alike. It loses all the nuance.

That's so racist. Just because the guys are yellow doesn't mean they all look alike. (Now I don't know what smiley face to use.)

bjornolf

04-04-2011, 03:47 PM

That's so racist. Just because the guys are yellow doesn't mean they all look alike. (Now I don't know what smiley face to use.)

I'm not racist. I'm size-ist. They're too small and their expressions aren't different enough at that size for me to be able to tell the difference between several of them. I couldn't care less what COLOR they all are.

NSDukeFan

04-04-2011, 03:51 PM

I'm not racist. I'm size-ist. They're too small and their expressions aren't different enough at that size for me to be able to tell the difference between several of them. I couldn't care less what COLOR they all are.

So now you're saying they couldn't coach big men?

uh_no

04-04-2011, 09:26 PM

people were talking about the uconn student section, it looks pretty full tonight...maybe they paid people to come off the streets :p

DevilWearsPrada

04-04-2011, 09:39 PM

The BUTLER must sley the Huskies!!! 40 minutes! Take the Final shot! Go DAWGS! Matt Howard PLEASE PLEASE stay out of foul trouble tonight.

uh_no

04-04-2011, 09:41 PM

people were talking about the uconn student section, it looks pretty full tonight...maybe they paid people to come off the streets :p

just kidding

they were using camera angles...uconn section is just about 50% full...butler is like 80%

makes sense given the distances

rthomas

04-04-2011, 10:03 PM

What a snoozer. This reminds me of Georgetown vs Kentucky back in the 80's.

Somebody hit a shot.

Spret42

04-04-2011, 10:07 PM

What a snoozer. This reminds me of Georgetown vs Kentucky back in the 80's.

Somebody hit a shot.

This is just ugly, ugly, ugly basketball.

A-Tex Devil

04-04-2011, 10:09 PM

rthomas

04-04-2011, 10:11 PM

This is just ugly, ugly, ugly basketball.

First one to 20 wins!

uh_no

04-04-2011, 10:12 PM

This is playing into Butler's hands.

All the better. Calhoun doesn't deserve a third championship. After this year's revelations, it will be unfortunate if his name is uttered in the same ballpark as the other 3+ championship coaches.

uconn's best 3 players are out in foul trouble....i think calhoun has some experiences with his best players missing the first half with foul trouble and the team being down at halftime in the final 4...

rogermortimer

04-04-2011, 10:15 PM

Ugly? Ponderous? Great. This favors Butler.

Really, do we want the national champions in each of the men's revenue sports to be teams engulfed in NCAA violations and scandal? Auburn and Connecticut are every thing wrong with the Div. 1 athletics. I am not as keyed up as I would be if Duke were playing, but I really want Butler to win.

hurleyfor3

04-04-2011, 10:15 PM

Uconn's student section doesn't look full at all. Butler should really be up 12 or so. Yeah, both teams are shooting horribly, but Butler's D is amazing.

A-Tex Devil

04-04-2011, 10:18 PM

uconn's best 3 players are out in foul trouble....i think calhoun has some experiences with his best players missing the first half with foul trouble and the team being down at halftime in the final 4...

That's true. Duke fans that complain about the 2004 game forget about how Okafor was straddled with the same ticky tack calls. Now, I'll side with my brethren on the officiating in the last 5 minutes of that game, but the fact that we were even in it amazed me.

As for tonight, it's more the pace and the defense. They made a good point earlier in the game -- Butler plays better badly (or plays badly better?) than any team in the nation. They just take you out of the game.

And in a game where two teams are playing like excrement, I'll side with Butler. That's exactly what they want.

ChrisP

04-04-2011, 10:21 PM

Wow, Butler made ONE two-point basket in the first half. Just...wow. Over 50% of their shot attempts have come from 3-pt range. Weird. I hope Butler can hang on. Calhoun winning 3 out the 4 times he's been to the FF just doesn't seem right.

Duvall

04-04-2011, 10:26 PM

BCS doesn't look too bad right now.

Cameron

04-04-2011, 10:26 PM

Acting to get a call is an old past-time in sports, and something which I don't have a problem with. This is something which Duke tends to excel at, in fact. If something is legal and will increase your chances of winning, I see no problem with it, even if it is frowned upon (as flopping generally is). We've had some of the best here at duke, and I personally think it's genius to do.

Need I remind you of this incident?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0upQDkY-pg

When someone says "but duke flops all the time so they get all the calls," my response is "well if you get calls from it, how come your team isn't smart enough to do it too?" While I can't stand the whole shoulder bump stuff that goes on (it happens in almost all college games during free throws....sort of a dominance thing i guess? i don't get it), Kemba made a conscious decision to do what he did and he got his team two points from it. Maybe it's cheap (so is flopping on charges) but it gave his team a better chance to win, and I can't fault a kid for that.

Excellent post. Gave you a pitchfork because I absolutely hate this argument. Drawing an offensive charge is an art and Duke players have been taught to perfect it. We are among the most efficient teams in the country, if not the most efficient, at being in correct position to draw the offensive charge year in and year out.

Arguing that Duke is doing something illegal (i.e. technical worthy) when drawing a charge is like arguing that stealing the basketball from another player should be considered shoplifting and result in a fine. Give me a break.

uh_no

04-04-2011, 10:26 PM

jdj4duke

04-04-2011, 10:31 PM

Time for Kenny Smith to shut up now.

hurleyfor3

04-04-2011, 10:32 PM

What's with all the Rice fans behind the CBS halftime talking heads? Did the ncaa give them uconn's unused seats? Look everyone, Rice made the Final Four.

diveonthefloor

04-04-2011, 10:33 PM

Time for Kenny Smith to shut up now.

Great analysis, Kenny....so all you can come up with is "Anybody but Duke."
Wow, you are awesome!

AZLA

04-04-2011, 10:46 PM

You are both right. However, sometimes it reminds me what the game of soccer has become where players dramatize, flail and flop, hoping to be granted a penalty kick or warranting a yellow or red card for the opposing team. Again, it's not anyone's fault per se, it's within the rules of the game, but personally I'd like to see college basketball evolve and have a clearly defined arc under the basket. It's ugly on the floor, yes, but I'd rather see defenders defend -- not act. Personally, to me, I believe trying to draw so many charges all the time and not going for blocks is a sign of smart basketball within the rules of the game, but also can be construed as weakness. It tells me -- as a defender, you'd rather try and influence the ref by blowing a whistle rather than playing the ball.

barjwr

04-04-2011, 10:49 PM

will someone PLEASE make a shot outside of 10 feet? PLEASE?

A-Tex Devil

04-04-2011, 10:50 PM

America is losing (unless we are talking about the Gilded Age. Then I guess America is winning).

basket1544

04-04-2011, 10:51 PM

will someone PLEASE make a shot outside of 10 feet? PLEASE?

Outside of 10 feet and inside of 22 feet... this is an insane game.

uh_no

04-04-2011, 10:51 PM

America is losing (unless we are talking about the Gilded Age. Then I guess America is winning).

defense is winning. every shot is contested, and that's PART of the reason for missed shots....the other part is missed shots

weezie

04-04-2011, 10:53 PM

Simply ridiculous. Two teams looking superbly lame.

Wonder what the tv ratings will be. Dancing w/the Stars may have beaten CBS soundly.

RoyalBlue08

04-04-2011, 10:53 PM

The best thing about this game is that it is eventually going to be vacated.

weezie

04-04-2011, 10:54 PM

Great analysis, Kenny....so all you can come up with is "Anybody but Duke."
Wow, you are awesome!

Duke being there might have meant a better paycheck for old Dopey Pants Kenny.
He needs a sandwich of "shut the heck up"

A-Tex Devil

04-04-2011, 10:54 PM

defense is winning. every shot is contested, and that's PART of the reason for missed shots....the other part is missed shots

Every shot is contested because there are only 2 players in this game that can get there own shot against a decent defense, they are both on UCONN and one just now decided to show up.

weezie

04-04-2011, 10:55 PM

The best thing about this game is that it is eventually going to be vacated.

Unless it goes down in history as the lowest score ever...then "quite" significant...NOT.

sporthenry

04-04-2011, 10:55 PM

Did UA play the best game of the tournament? But I think this just goes to show how bad college basketball was and Jay Bilas was completely right about how bad the game currently is.

hurleyfor3

04-04-2011, 10:57 PM

The best thing about this game is that it is eventually going to be vacated.

Except that in order to vacate a game you have to show up for it first.

And I thought the 2002 final was bad.

weezie

04-04-2011, 10:58 PM

.... I think this just goes to show how bad college basketball was and Jay Bilas was completely right about how bad the game currently is.

Works for me, I'm sorry to say.

sporthenry

04-04-2011, 10:58 PM

But this is why I want to see the best teams in the finals and who would have thought that the BCS would actually have an argument for their system?

weezie

04-04-2011, 10:59 PM

What's with all the Rice fans behind the CBS halftime talking heads? Did the ncaa give them uconn's unused seats? Look everyone, Rice made the Final Four.

LOL! I was wondering about that.

barjwr

04-04-2011, 11:00 PM

. . . this just goes to show how bad college basketball was and Jay Bilas was completely right about how bad the game currently is.

The funny thing is that the argument for the decline of the college game is the lack of upperclassmen in school. Granted, most of UCon's team are underclassmen, but Butler's team is quite experienced, and 4 of the 5 AP All-Americans are upperclassmen (3 are seniors).

I agree that the game in general (and this game in particular) is worse, but I'm not really sure why.

A-Tex Devil

04-04-2011, 11:00 PM

Did UA play the best game of the tournament? But I think this just goes to show how bad college basketball was and Jay Bilas was completely right about how bad the game currently is.

I don't know. Duke-Butler, 2009 UNC, KU-Memphis the Florida teams, etc. were all very good basketball teams. It's become clear, though that you can '90s Knick up a game in college now and be somewhat successful. I love what Butler stands for, but that's what they do -- they create ugly basketball games.

However, give me a do-over, and I'd much rather see Duke KU or Ohio St. KU right now. This is worse than Maryland/IU all over again, but much much worse.

dairedevil

04-04-2011, 11:01 PM

This is one plug-ugly game. Unless something changes - and soon, it will be the game remembered for how bad it was. Great defense on both sides, but it's kind of like watching a pitcher's duel in baseball- c'mon, somebody make a basket! If Butler could hit a free throw and a layup or two, it would be another story.

barjwr

04-04-2011, 11:01 PM

Except that in order to vacate a game you have to show up for it first.

And I thought the 2002 final was bad.

2006/Florida was pretty bad

heyman25

04-04-2011, 11:03 PM

Is Butler this inept. At 22 -19 I thought they would start scoring. 6 points in ten minutes is very bad offense. 8 for 49. Butler is godawful.

barjwr

04-04-2011, 11:04 PM

I'm afraid Butler just doesn't have the scoring to come back. I hope I'm wrong, but it looks like Calhoun will get 3. Blecch.

sporthenry

04-04-2011, 11:04 PM

The funny thing is that the argument for the decline of the college game is the lack of upperclassmen in school. Granted, most of UCon's team are underclassmen, but Butler's team is quite experienced, and 4 of the 5 AP All-Americans are upperclassmen (3 are seniors).

I agree that the game in general (and this game in particular) is worse, but I'm not really sure why.

The decline is attributed to the best players leaving early. Butler has 1 nba player? The mid majors have experience but the point is that they don't have the talent. UNC probably has the next best chance to have experienced NBA talent next year.

johnb

04-04-2011, 11:04 PM

it's painful to watch uconn win a championship

ChrisP

04-04-2011, 11:05 PM

This is not looking good for Butler at all. They cannot hit ANYTHING! Like 2 for 22 in the 2nd half! Ugh, I hate UCONN!

uh_no

04-04-2011, 11:06 PM

Every shot is contested because there are only 2 players in this game that can get there own shot against a decent defense, they are both on UCONN and one just now decided to show up.

lamb sat out a good part of the first half, and that shut kemba down...along with oriakhi being out

barjwr

04-04-2011, 11:06 PM

it's painful to watch uconn win a championship

I would go as far as saying that it's painful to watch UCon win anything

dcdrumsinc

04-04-2011, 11:06 PM

dear coach k.

please recruit really tall guys with long arms like this dumb uconn team...

AZLA

04-04-2011, 11:07 PM

At the conclusion, I think every student at every college in American should riot to protest how poor this game is!

barjwr

04-04-2011, 11:08 PM

first points in the paint for Butler at 6:08 left in the second half

A-Tex Devil

04-04-2011, 11:08 PM

Butler dude just shoved UCONN dude out of bounds there. Pretty bad no call.

barjwr

04-04-2011, 11:09 PM

At the conclusion, I think every student at every college in American should riot to protest how poor this game is!

did you go to maryland?

diveonthefloor

04-04-2011, 11:09 PM

Does the NCAA have a disincentive to actually consider sanctioning this UConn team if it is presented with true violations?

AZLA

04-04-2011, 11:09 PM

I think the University of Phoenix can play better basketball than Butler right now

uh_no

04-04-2011, 11:10 PM

Butler dude just shoved UCONN dude out of bounds there. Pretty bad no call.

the refs can't let the players be the only ones who are terrible tonight! :P

as bad as it looks, uconn is shooting 50% in the half....pretty clear how big an impact losing oriakhi and lamb in the first half can change things

ForeverBlowingBubbles

04-04-2011, 11:11 PM

Doubt it!

sporthenry

04-04-2011, 11:11 PM

I at least enjoy Kellog saying it how it is. Nantz is trying to give the defenses credit but this isn't good defense.

gam7

04-04-2011, 11:11 PM

dear coach k.

please recruit really tall guys with long arms like this dumb uconn team...

We did recruit Roscoe Smith.

A-Tex Devil

04-04-2011, 11:11 PM

lamb sat out a good part of the first half, and that shut kemba down...along with oriakhi being out

My point was, Kemba's greatness aside, these aren't two of the most offensively gifted teams out there, but both are great defensively in their own way. This was bound to happen.

"Unparalleled ineptitude."

barjwr

04-04-2011, 11:12 PM

would not have guessed that the best player on the UCon championship team this year would be Kemba Walker . . . instead of Maya Moore

kinsman_bob

04-04-2011, 11:12 PM

jipops

04-04-2011, 11:13 PM

This game seems a bit like Duke-Arizona, except worse.

sporthenry

04-04-2011, 11:13 PM

We did recruit Roscoe Smith.

At least he has 0 points, 4 fouls and the running Not Top Play on ESPN.

heyman25

04-04-2011, 11:14 PM

Just remember life is not fair.UCONN probably has a lot of skeletons in its recruiting closet.

A-Tex Devil

04-04-2011, 11:14 PM

Butler got jinxed when Plump or whatever the Milan High guy's name was admitted that Hoosiers was almost completely made up (other than the state title win). Couldn't he just let us think that move was real?

sporthenry

04-04-2011, 11:16 PM

And Andrew Smith is pretty bad. Someone said he puts up better numbers than Mason, probably b/c he doesn't face real big men in the Horizon. And it isn't just this game, I have not been impressed with him at any poin in the tournament.

A-Tex Devil

04-04-2011, 11:17 PM

So, the head coach of the likely NCAA champions will be serving a suspension part of next year. How embarrassing for the NCAA, particularly if the Nate Miles issue gets reopened. I'd guess there will be some folks at the NCAA brass asking some hard questions tomorrow morning.

I'll posit that any non-HOF coach (see K. Sampson, J. Harrick) is probably fired for what happened at UCONN. But . . . you know.

Auburn wins the football national championship and UCONN basketball. What a year.

uh_no

04-04-2011, 11:18 PM

So, the head coach of the likely NCAA champions will be serving a suspension part of next year. How embarrassing for the NCAA, particularly if the Nate Miles issue gets reopened. I'd guess there will be some folks at the NCAA brass asking some hard questions tomorrow morning.

the ncaa said they may talk to miles but the investigation is not being reopened

A-Tex Devil

04-04-2011, 11:20 PM

I'll posit that any non-HOF coach (see K. Sampson, J. Harrick) is probably fired for what happened at UCONN. But . . . you know.

Auburn wins the football national championship and UCONN basketball. What a year.

And I'll add -- I like UCONN's kids this year. All of them. But Calhoun lost me with the Marcus Williams nonsense, and the fact his suspension got deferred showed almost less teeth than the NCAA's treatment of the Ohio State tatoo-gate with respect to the Sugar Bowl.

OK. No more angry posts. But I'll keep hating. This is bad for college basketball. It is no different than if Jim Tressel (who should already be fired) wins the national championship next year.

sporthenry

04-04-2011, 11:20 PM

I don't see the NCAA ever taking away a championship. I think if Memphis had won, they keeep the trophy b/c how do you vacate a title? Does nobody get it?

fc3

04-04-2011, 11:22 PM

This has to be one of the most painful basketball games I've ever watched. As much as I despise UCONN and would like to see Butler win, this is some absolutely atrocious viewing. It has the feel of the '90 Duke loss to UNLV but played at an agonizing pace.

barjwr

04-04-2011, 11:22 PM

I don't see the NCAA ever taking away a championship. I think if Memphis had won, they keeep the trophy b/c how do you vacate a title? Does nobody get it?

My dad's a big KU fan, and he likes to joke that he got all worked up cheering in that game for nothing, since KU would win later anyway. The Chalmers shot was more fun, though.

uh_no

04-04-2011, 11:23 PM

I don't see the NCAA ever taking away a championship. I think if Memphis had won, they keeep the trophy b/c how do you vacate a title? Does nobody get it?

yes.

the title won't be vacated since no ineligible players played on the team.

I believe USC had to vacate the bush era titles

sporthenry

04-04-2011, 11:24 PM

My dad's a big KU fan, and he likes to joke that he got all worked up cheering in that game for nothing, since KU would win anyway. Chalmer's shot was more fun, though.

But yeah, I'm pretty sure no team with any respect would even want the title that way anyways.

Lulu

04-04-2011, 11:26 PM

anyone here with enough knowledge to start a list of the worst championship games ever?

A-Tex Devil

04-04-2011, 11:27 PM

the title won't be vacated since no ineligible players played on the team.

That we KNOW of. Sorry. That was mean.

Congrats to UCONN's players, fans, assistant coaches, and trainers. Walker, Oriakhi, Lamb, all of them. Those PLAYERS are worthy champions, and I salute them. All good kids with great futures.

dairedevil

04-04-2011, 11:28 PM

Yuk! Jim Calhoun will have 3 - since 99 - the only coach to do that...."Donovan had two, K only had two"....

well, at least they managed to score 50 points...is this the worst final ever?

hurleyfor3

04-04-2011, 11:28 PM

Woof.

SmartDevil

04-04-2011, 11:29 PM

"One Shining Moment" just doesn't seem a good fit....

duke4ever19

04-04-2011, 11:30 PM

I would not be surprised if Calhoun calls it a career after this.

He's not been in the best health for a number of years and the NCAA has been hot on his heels for some time.

dairedevil

04-04-2011, 11:30 PM

But yeah, I'm pretty sure no team with any respect would even want the title that way anyways.

I dunno, unc would probably hang a banner :D

rsvman

04-04-2011, 11:31 PM

Crappiest. Championship. Game. Ever.

What a disappointing end to the basketball season. No more college hoops until fall and I had to watch THIS?!? Really?

uh_no

04-04-2011, 11:32 PM

Yuk! Jim Calhoun will have 3 - since 99 - the only coach to do that...."Donovan had two, K only had two"....

well, at least they managed to score 50 points...is this the worst final ever?

a couple things

uconn forced UK to take 27 3s
they forced buter to take 33 3s

you don't do that without some really good defense

uconn scored 34 points in the second half, and that was with the slowdown over the last couple minutes

they scored 19 in the first for a couple of reasons....first, with oriakhi out and then lamb, butler's defense could shut down kemba (then kemba went out), second, with butler's inability to score they made a conscious decision to just get through the half, they played slow and just wanted to rest and lay it on in the second half, which they did enormously effectively...it's actions like this that put calhoun among the best in game coaches

sporthenry

04-04-2011, 11:32 PM

wilko

04-04-2011, 11:33 PM

Did Greg Anthony just say this was the worst performance ever in a title game?

Cool - guess he forgot about '90. Its tuff getting old.

sporthenry

04-04-2011, 11:34 PM

a couple things

uconn forced UK to take 27 3s
they forced buter to take 33 3s

you don't do that without some really good defense

uconn scored 34 points in the second half, and that was with the slowdown over the last couple minutes

they scored 19 in the first for a couple of reasons....first, with oriakhi out and then lamb, butler's defense could shut down kemba (then kemba went out), second, with butler's inability to score they made a conscious decision to just get through the half, they played slow and just wanted to rest and lay it on in the second half, which they did enormously effectively...it's actions like this that put calhoun among the best in game coaches

As Kellog said, it was more Butler being inept than anything else. Missing layups and wide open 3's in addition to falling in love with the 3. Also Butler and UK take a great number of 3's so I'm not sure that UCONN played good D as opposed to the other team got the shots they wanted and missed.

basket1544

04-04-2011, 11:35 PM

Yuk! Jim Calhoun will have 3 - since 99 - the only coach to do that...."Donovan had two, K only had two"....

I heard that too. Why did they make that a statistic? Calhoun is the only coach to have 3 since 1999? So what??? He's only got 2 since 2004. So there!

uh_no

04-04-2011, 11:35 PM

I would not be surprised if Calhoun calls it a career after this.

He's not been in the best health for a number of years and the NCAA has been hot on his heels for some time.

I hope he doesn't, but not for the reason you think. His time to exit the game is coming for sure, but I would like him to stay and face his suspension. He's been a sleezebag, no doubt, so I would be disappointed if he left the game without taking his medicine....He's always said he wouldn't leave after a great year or a terrible year, because emotions are too great. I call 1 more year.

hurleyfor3

04-04-2011, 11:35 PM

Did Greg Anthony just say this was the worst performance ever in a title game?

Cool - guess he forgot about '90. Its tuff getting old.

Hey, we almost doubled Butler's scoring output in 1990. I'm happy he doesn't have an anti-Duke agenda the way Kenny SMith does.

DevilWearsPrada

04-04-2011, 11:35 PM

Did someone put sleeping pills or something in Butler's water or gatorade during the half. They looked dazed and confused, after having a somewhat low scoring decent first half.

This was a horrible championship final game. Ugly ugly game. Lots of uncalled fouls.

The most positive thing, it that Kerlina is not standing last.

I enjoyed watching the Butler Bulldogs, and have never seen them play this bad. Love Matt Howard and Mack the Knife.

barjwr

04-04-2011, 11:36 PM

"One Shining Moment" just doesn't seem a good fit....

Actually, it may be perfect. This game may have only had one decent moment.

60's Devil

04-04-2011, 11:36 PM

I guess size and athleticism matter. Watching Howard and Smith in the paint was tragic.

sporthenry

04-04-2011, 11:37 PM

Actually, it may be perfect. This game may have only had one decent moment.

The final buzzer?

Spret42

04-04-2011, 11:40 PM

a couple things

uconn forced UK to take 27 3s
they forced buter to take 33 3s

you don't do that without some really good defense

uconn scored 34 points in the second half, and that was with the slowdown over the last couple minutes

they scored 19 in the first for a couple of reasons....first, with oriakhi out and then lamb, butler's defense could shut down kemba (then kemba went out), second, with butler's inability to score they made a conscious decision to just get through the half, they played slow and just wanted to rest and lay it on in the second half, which they did enormously effectively...it's actions like this that put calhoun among the best in game coaches

Uconn's defense was definitely the reason for Butler's horrific performance. But in the last few years the level of college basketball has been plummeting. UCONN never would been able to limit a better, more skilled basketball team to that kind of shooting. Butler is a nice story, but they are a very limited basketball team in a very limited sport right now.

And most def agree with Calhoun making great in-game adjustments in this game. He is a flat out great basketball coach.

Duvall

04-04-2011, 11:42 PM

Does this increase the chances that the NCAA makes a 2 year rule for players? I'm sure the TV numbers will be ok since this tournament has been good but I doubt many people stuck around to watch the end. As bad as the NBA was with the high school kids, this year's tournament never seemed enjoyable.

It's not an NCAA rule. It's an NBA rule. They don't care one bit how ugly the college game gets.

DevilWearsPrada

04-04-2011, 11:42 PM

Well at least, Uconn will not have the Jennifer Hudson version of One Shining Moment.

That had to be the worst 2nd half of a championship game, ever.

uh_no

04-04-2011, 11:44 PM

Uconn's defense was definitely the reason for Butler's horrific performance. But at the end of the day the last few years the level of college basketball has been plummeting. UCONN never would been able to limit a better, more skilled basketball team to that kind of shooting. Butler is a nice story, but they are a very limited basketball team in a very limited sport right now.

And most def agree with Calhoun making great in-game adjustments in this game. He is a flat out great basketball coach.

completely agree. The uconn final 4 team of 2009 with hasheem thabeet would have absolutely stomped this team....UNC would have, the 2006 uconn team, either the 2004 uconn/ duke teams.....this team isn't a great team....I won't lie....but they beat the people in front of them, and that's all one can say

anon

04-04-2011, 11:45 PM

I heard that too. Why did they make that a statistic? Calhoun is the only coach to have 3 since 1999? So what??? He's only got 2 since 2004. So there!

Right. K is the only coach with 4 since 1991. I can make up stats too.

Rudy

04-04-2011, 11:45 PM

Does this increase the chances that the NCAA makes a 2 year rule for players? I'm sure the TV numbers will be ok since this tournament has been good but I doubt many people stuck around to watch the end. As bad as the NBA was with the high school kids, this year's tournament never seemed enjoyable.
Disagree strongly with the bolded point. With the exception of this final game there were many, many great games. Not quite as enjoyable as last year, but only because Duke lost earlier.

J4Kop99

04-04-2011, 11:47 PM

Chris Randolph

04-04-2011, 11:48 PM

Congrats to UCONN, sure I don't like it when teams/coaches win after being busted by the NCAA but that is college sports these days.

Every year has great games, individual performances, underdogs but this year was overall brutal.

This pathetic game puts an end to a pathetic season. Hurry up college footballl season......

sporthenry

04-04-2011, 11:49 PM

It's not an NCAA rule. It's an NBA rule. They don't care one bit how ugly the college game gets.

Yes, well I'm not sure how the MLB draft got started but I assume that the MLB worked with the NCAA to institute the 3 year rule. I'm sure the NBA would work with the NCAA especially with the upcoming lockout. I'm not sure what recourse the NCAA would have if they instituted a 2-3 year rule but the NBA didn't and kids just left but I assume something could be done.

Troublemaker

04-04-2011, 11:49 PM

Wow. This game turned out to be the quintessential "length matters" game. I've never seen one team's length affect a basketball game to that extent, especially when the two competing teams have similar height and bulk. I mean, Andrew Smith at 6'11" and Howard at 6'8" are not really shorter than their UConn counterparts. And besides the bulky Oriakhi, UConn mostly has a bunch of thin underclassmen (including many frosh) surrounding Kemba. No, it was length, not height or bulk, that carried the day. UConn's players had longer arms and in most cases, quicker hops, and Butler just could not get an uncontested shot against that length. Great season by Calhoun. He's a legend.

Spret42

04-04-2011, 11:56 PM

Only good thing about this is everyone will jump off the Butler bandwagon and finally let them go. I don't want to hear another word about Butler for a long time.

Pretty fitting way to end a tourney which I thought was pretty damn bad.

I have been saying it since last year, and even since George Mason. These teams making the Final Four isn't a sign of good things for college basketball. It means the basketball being played isn't very skillful or very good.

hurleyfor3

04-04-2011, 11:58 PM

Espn saying Butler had the second-lowest FG% in ncaa tournament history. Lowest was apparently Springfield vs. Indiana in 1940.

I remember the 1940 Springfield team. Homer was 2-18, Marge 1-17 and Bart 3-20. Maggie hit a couple threes though, and Lisa played good defense.

loldevilz

04-05-2011, 12:03 AM

Wow. I actually turned that off midway through the 2nd half. Butler was a no-show. Two years in a row now that Howard has been terrible.

Only good thing about this is everyone will jump off the Butler bandwagon and finally let them go. I don't want to hear another word about Butler for a long time.

Pretty fitting way to end a tourney which I thought was pretty damn bad.

On to next year...

Seriously what an awful tournament. In all honesty I thought the best basketball was in the sweet sixteen games. Arizona-Duke and OSU-Kentucky IMO were lightyears ahead of that UCONN-Butler final.

I think the way this tournament end up has a lot to do with the ridiculously lopsided bracket. The north and south brackets were loaded with talent in OSU, Kentucky, UNC, Duke, Arizona, Texas, UCONN. The other side had basically no talent except for Kansas.
Natually, you end up with VCU, Butler getting through.

J4Kop99

04-05-2011, 12:04 AM

uh_no

04-05-2011, 12:05 AM

I think the way this tournament end up has a lot to do with the ridiculously lopsided bracket. The north and south brackets were loaded with talent in OSU, Kentucky, UNC, Duke, Arizona, Texas, UCONN. The other side had basically no talent except for Kansas.
Natually, you end up with VCU, Butler getting through.

Well, the big east doing what it did certainly didn't help things, with pitt ND and lousville all on that side of the tournament

loldevilz

04-05-2011, 12:07 AM

Well, the big east doing what it did certainly didn't help things, with pitt ND and lousville all on that side of the tournament

There are exactly 0 NBA players on those teams.

uh_no

04-05-2011, 12:11 AM

There are exactly 0 NBA players on those teams.

brad wannamaker is projected to be drafted.....and obviously NBA talent=tournament success

sporthenry

04-05-2011, 12:12 AM

There are exactly 0 NBA players on those teams.

And how many NBA players did Butler or VCU have? Ashton Gibbs and Wanamaker probably have as much NBA potential as Mack or Skeen. And Louisville has Terrence Jennings who will get a shot in the NBA and even Siva.

gumbomoop

04-05-2011, 12:13 AM

sporthenry

04-05-2011, 12:17 AM

I don't agree with descriptions of the tourney overall as "damn bad," "awful," and "brutal." Here's a list of what seems to me to have been good-to-great games, more than a few with tense final minutes:

UNC-Wash
Arizona-Memphis
Temple-Penn St
Arizona-Texas
Duke-Michigan
UL-Morehead St
Butler-ODU
Butler-Pitt
VCU-FSU
Butler-Fla
OSU-UK
UConn-Arizona
UK-UNC
UK-UConn
Butler-VCU

Well that is 15/63 games which is 24% which isn't great. And look at some of those games. The end of the Butler/Pitt game wasn't good basketball. The end of the Texas game was bad. The Duke/Michigan game wasn't that good, more just Duke falling apart. Just b/c the score is close doesn't mean it was a well played game. I'd say there were closer to 10 good games and out of 63, I'd expect more. I think a good game is both teams trading punches, not teams falling apart.

83bluedevil

04-05-2011, 12:19 AM

uh_no

04-05-2011, 12:23 AM

Both teams played decent defense -- but so what? Even open looks resulted in the biggest clunkers since the 1973 Ford Fury. Disappointing in every possible way.

Uconn shot 41% in the second half...that is in no way horrid...first half they were limited by foul trouble....

sporthenry

04-05-2011, 12:27 AM

Uconn shot 41% in the second half...that is in no way horrid...first half they were limited by foul trouble....

They made 10 shots in the second half of which 6 were lay ups.

Duvall

04-05-2011, 12:29 AM

They made 10 shots in the second half of which 6 were lay ups.

Yeah, UConn started getting layups once Butler started trying to force turnovers (because they sure weren't going to score in the halfcourt).

uh_no

04-05-2011, 12:30 AM

They made 10 shots in the second half of which 6 were lay ups.

and they shot 41%....doesn't really matter what kind of shots they were....

duke96

04-05-2011, 12:31 AM

Would be most enjoyable to see this banner come down someday (along with calipari's final four banner).

sporthenry

04-05-2011, 12:31 AM

Yeah, UConn started getting layups once Butler started trying to force turnovers (because they sure weren't going to score in the halfcourt).

No I know and also when Butler turned the ball over but the point is, nobody hit their shots.

uh_no

04-05-2011, 12:31 AM

Yeah, UConn started getting layups once Butler started trying to force turnovers (because they sure weren't going to score in the halfcourt).

uconn shooting actually went down near the end of the second half...they were shooting 50% for most of the half...they were at 4-8 and 8-16 i believe

ALSO: Calhoun ended speculation by pretty much saying he wasn't retiring.

gumbomoop

04-05-2011, 12:34 AM

Well that is 15/63 games which is 24% which isn't great. And look at some of those games. The end of the Butler/Pitt game wasn't good basketball. The end of the Texas game was bad. The Duke/Michigan game wasn't that good, more just Duke falling apart. Just b/c the score is close doesn't mean it was a well played game. I'd say there were closer to 10 good games and out of 63, I'd expect more. I think a good game is both teams trading punches, not teams falling apart.

Yes, I do agree that close score doesn't automatically = great game. It does usually indicate exciting game, or tense endings. As to the %, I believe I could find another few games, to up that %. But as I haven't done any research to compare these to previous years, I can't honestly argue that there were more exciting games this year than in the past few years. I just don't know. But, there's no accounting for taste, so I'll surely fail in trying to convince anyone who thinks this tourney overall was lousy. I saw enough exciting, sometimes-very-well-played, games to satisfy me.

The Duke loss, along with this Final, were awful.

I will look forward to 2011-12, thinking there may be some fine teams, including UNC, UK, Texas, UConn, OSU, and Duke.

sporthenry

04-05-2011, 12:35 AM

and they shot 41%....doesn't really matter what kind of shots they were....

Well dunks/layups isn't really shooting. I know you are a UCONN fan and all but the game was terrible. The previous poster mentioned everyone missed their open shots, which again I wouldn't credit Lamb with an uncontested dunk as hitting shots. UCONN adjusted and got into transition but I wouldn't say either team's offense was clicking.

uh_no

04-05-2011, 12:38 AM

Well dunks/layups isn't really shooting. I know you are a UCONN fan and all but the game was terrible. The previous poster mentioned everyone missed their open shots, which again I wouldn't credit Lamb with an uncontested dunk as hitting shots. UCONN adjusted and got into transition but I wouldn't say either team's offense was clicking.

fair enough. Calhoun adressed this a bit, with the newer dome facilities....as opposed to basketball facilities that they used to use....all the rims are new and not broken in...very very stiff, and that has lead to some of the lower scoring games over the past couple years in domes (given duke seemed to do alright against WVU)

sporthenry

04-05-2011, 12:40 AM

fair enough. Calhoun adressed this a bit, with the newer dome facilities....as opposed to basketball facilities that they used to use....all the rims are new and not broken in...very very stiff, and that has lead to some of the lower scoring games over the past couple years in domes (given duke seemed to do alright against WVU)

And I know college kids aren't used to NBA arenas or football stadiums with huge back drops so their perception is off. But teams just missed open shots, ran up and down the court wildly, and struggled to finish easy plays. Each team could easily have had another 10 points with better finishing around the rim as well.

04-05-2011, 12:42 AM

At the 11:30 mark in the second half... for the game, Butler was shooting 18% and UCon 33%! That was enough for me.

While UCon may have have shot 50% over a stretch in the second half.. they ended up at 34% for the game and 9% from the three.

However, you slice it, that is not real pretty.

uh_no

04-05-2011, 12:45 AM

While UCon may have have shot 50% over a stretch in the second half.. they ended up at 34% for the game and 9% from the three.

A strech is a lot different from the first 15 minutes of the half.

Shooting 3's isn't their game, and hasn't been all year. The foul trouble of lamb oriakhi and walker significantly hurt their shooting in the first half...which they slowed down significantly just to 'make it through' when they could go in the second half.

uh_no

04-05-2011, 12:47 AM

for the record, in last year's title game, butler shot the exact same percentage that uconn shot this year....I don't recall anyone talking about their horrid shooting performance.

also, duke shot 38% in the second half...below what uconn shot in the second half this year

04-05-2011, 12:58 AM

[QUOTE=The foul trouble of lamb oriakhi and walker significantly hurt their shooting in the first half...which they slowed down significantly just to 'make it through' when they could go in the second half.[/QUOTE]

My memory is that Walker didn't commit his second foul until the 2:40 mark in the first half.

uh_no

04-05-2011, 01:00 AM

My memory is that Walker didn't commit his second foul until the 2:40 mark in the first half.

Something like that. As soon as lamb went out though, the post presence was dead, then lamb got two, and butler could play like 5-1 with kemba

hurleyfor3

04-05-2011, 01:04 AM

Pomeroy's final stats are up. The championship game had 57 possessions by his count, so butler scored at the blistering pace of .719 points per possesion.

We seem to like wallowing in how unfair the matchups were in this year's tournament, so allow me to rub it in a little. If Arizona had been as "efficient" in their Sweet 16 game as Butler was tonight, we would have beaten them by twenty-seven points. (Duke 77, Arizona 50.)

Yeah, that's a lot of other things being equal, but who cares when it's so mush easier to feel sorry for yourself instead.

SoCalDukeFan

04-05-2011, 01:18 AM

Seriously what an awful tournament. In all honesty I thought the best basketball was in the sweet sixteen games. Arizona-Duke and OSU-Kentucky IMO were lightyears ahead of that UCONN-Butler final.

I think the way this tournament end up has a lot to do with the ridiculously lopsided bracket. The north and south brackets were loaded with talent in OSU, Kentucky, UNC, Duke, Arizona, Texas, UCONN. The other side had basically no talent except for Kansas.
Natually, you end up with VCU, Butler getting through.

While I generally agree with you, Pitt won the Big East regular season and I would think had to be considered a talented team.

Overall I think that the so called Committee did a pretty poor job. I think they need to give more weight to the conference tournaments. UConn should have had a better seed than Notre Dame. Florida loses by 16 to Kentucky in the SEC Title game and gets 2 seed and Ky a 4 seed. Huh! Duke should have had the 3rd number 1 seed not Pitt. Also a number 1 seed should not have to play in NC on Sunday and then late night in California on Thursday. Did SDSU beat anyone who was any good this year? They had a 2 seed. Lots they screwed up.

SoCal

NYC Duke Fan

04-05-2011, 01:20 AM

Calhoun has just become a member of the all time great coaches joining Wooden, Coach K, Adolph Rupp, and Bobby Knight in winning more than 2 NCAA championships.

Like him or not, the guy can flat out coach. Congratulations to him and his team. I have a feeling that this is not the last of him that we willing be seeing in Tournament Finals.

throatybeard

04-05-2011, 01:22 AM

You know, if Butler is still following the Milan High School path to success demonstrated in Hoosiers they should take care of business. Although the movie obviously didn't show it, Milan won the state championship in 1954 after losing in the semi-final in 1953. Yeah, I know, Butler lost in the final last year, not the semi-final, but it's close enough for me.

Fun related fact, any time a Carolina fan mentions four-corners as one of the many wondrous innovations bestowed upon the game of basketball by the great and powerful Dean Smith, feel free to mention that particular 1953-54 Milan High School team which rode the strengths of a four-corners/stall offense to a state title (they called it "cat-and-mouse"). That includes a stretch of over four minutes near the end of the championship game where Bobby Plump (the real life Jimmy Chitwood) just stood at the top of the key, ball in hand, before missing a shot, and on their next possession another solid minute of standing still with the ball before hitting the game-winner.

While not the first time this type of offense was used, it is one of the better known situations.

My understanding, too, is that Dean borrowed the 4C from a guy at a small Methodist college in NC.

KandG

04-05-2011, 01:29 AM

uh_no

04-05-2011, 02:01 AM

The quality of play in college basketball has been in decline for a while now. There will always be good stories (Butler, VCU) and the first couple of rounds of the tournament had some fun games and fantastic finishes. But unless you have a team that you live and die with -- and even in the case of Duke, I found several games excruciating to watch in stretches, especially after Kyrie got hurt -- the sport is a hard sell for people looking for quality play. All the one and dones, the increased physical play inside favoring physical defenses, and the long shot clock make for lots of grindfests.

The UK-Uconn game had a 3% larger draw than duke WV last year....obviously UK brings in a ton of viewers...will be interesting to see the numbers from last nights game

licc85

04-05-2011, 02:03 AM

Jderf

04-05-2011, 02:14 AM

K > Calhoun > Roy & Dean :cool:

uh_no

04-05-2011, 02:23 AM

NCAA needs to find a way to compensate players without making them employees. There needs to be some kind of incentive to stay in college.

There's not enough money in college basketball to entice athletes like the NBA can. Not by a long shot. Fun fact: very few athletics departments make any money (duke is 16 million in the red every year....)

http://californiawatch.org/dailyreport/ncaa-report-shows-more-college-athletic-programs-losing-money-4121

last year, i know, but what part of these universities is going to say 'yes we should pay the players to entice them not to go to the NBA'....that sure as hell wouldn't work at duke, where every year the faculty complains about the athletics subsidy....imagine if we had to bump it another million or 2 to prevent players from jumping to the nba (and it's folly to think that a few thousand is going to make a difference to someone about to be making millions....)

If the player is making decisions based on money, athletics departments simply can't afford to pay enough to keep them.

burns15

04-05-2011, 02:28 AM

Wow. I actually turned that off midway through the 2nd half. Butler was a no-show. Two years in a row now that Howard has been terrible.

Only good thing about this is everyone will jump off the Butler bandwagon and finally let them go. I don't want to hear another word about Butler for a long time.

Pretty fitting way to end a tourney which I thought was pretty damn bad.

On to next year...

really? They made back to back national title games as a freakin mid-major. They already have my respect, and if was on the bandwagon, the two losses in the NC game would do nothing to dispell my fandom. I mean a mid major team just made back-to-back national title games, its unbelievable what Stevens, Mack, Howard, etc. have done. Incredible IMHO

-bdbd

04-05-2011, 02:31 AM

The entire Final Four weekend might have been one of the lowest points of college basketball. Even the nominally "exciting" UConn-Kentucky game was pretty poorly played and ragged until the final minutes. And then you have one of the worst championship basketball games ever played in the history of the sport on Monday night.

The quality of play in college basketball has been in decline for a while now. There will always be good stories (Butler, VCU) and the first couple of rounds of the tournament had some fun games and fantastic finishes. But unless you have a team that you live and die with -- and even in the case of Duke, I found several games excruciating to watch in stretches, especially after Kyrie got hurt -- the sport is a hard sell for people looking for quality play. All the one and dones, the increased physical play inside favoring physical defenses, and the long shot clock make for lots of grindfests...

And it had to be just plain excruciating to the NCAA to have two of the dirtiest, but accomplished, programs center stage in this Final Four. But to have to hand the trophy to the man they just handed a (delayed) suspension to, well, er, the NCAA was certainly not thrilled with the result. One silver lining out of all of this: the announcers were pretty unanimous that Butler played as poorly in a NC game as any team in history, and just handed it to U-con. Ugh! And most of those misses were uncontested or right around the rim.

Questions:
1. ANY chance Stevens leaves Butler now, given all of the departing talent? He'll never be more valuable than he is right now.
2. Does Calhoun retire? If so, it may just have been worth it. And if so, does that help Duke in our recruitment of a certain studly 6'10" high school Center fom the state of CT in 2012? And if he leaves, who replaces Calhoun at U-Con?
3. Somebody please explain to be an apparent double-standard among the NCAA TV announcers. Duke grads Seth Davis, Jay Bilas, Jayson Williams all remain incredibly professional and studiously neutral throughout. But we have to put up with an end-of game 45-sec segment from NC@CH alum Kenny Smith giving his "favorite player of the tournament" highlights. He chose, of course, Williams of AZ, and of the four games AZ played in, anybody want to guess which one Smith took ALL of William's highlights from? When Barkley points it out on air, he says something like, "Yeah, ABD baby - Anybody But Duke." I'm not so much upset as I am peplexed, as I can't imagine Davis or Bilas saying something similar like "ABC" and showing just highlights of NC looking bad... Really, am I missing something? :mad:
4. Given that 2 of the 4 FF teams were "small schools," with generally smaller fan followings, and the biggest one lost in the other semi, and the Final was an ugly, ugly game, I just can't imagine the overall FF television ratings were respectable at all...
:confused:

burns15

04-05-2011, 02:42 AM

While I generally agree with you, Pitt won the Big East regular season and I would think had to be considered a talented team.

Overall I think that the so called Committee did a pretty poor job. I think they need to give more weight to the conference tournaments. UConn should have had a better seed than Notre Dame. Florida loses by 16 to Kentucky in the SEC Title game and gets 2 seed and Ky a 4 seed. Huh! Duke should have had the 3rd number 1 seed not Pitt. Also a number 1 seed should not have to play in NC on Sunday and then late night in California on Thursday. Did SDSU beat anyone who was any good this year? They had a 2 seed. Lots they screwed up.

SoCal

SDSU was a legitimate 2 seed. I agree with your sentiment regarding Florida, and will acknowledge your viewpoint on Duke. But as regards UCONN and Notre Dame, there is absolutely no reason that UCONN should have had a higher seed than Notre Dame. ND finished 14-4 in the Big East and in 2nd place, compared to UCONN's 9th place finish at 9-9. Yes, UCONN looked phenomenal in the Big East tourney and certainly improved their seed, but there is no way they deserved a higher seed than a team they finished 7 spots below during the regular season. In fact, I would argue that there is no way any team that finishes in the second division of their conference should even be allowed into the tournament, let alone get a high protected seed

uh_no

04-05-2011, 02:44 AM

4. Given that 2 of the 4 FF teams were "small schools," with generally smaller fan followings, and the biggest one lost in the other semi, and the Final was an ugly, ugly game, I just can't imagine the overall FF television ratings were respectable at all...
:confused:

the butler vcu game drew 3% less than the butler msu game last year, presumably since MSU has a larger fanbase

the uconn uk game drew 3% more than duke/uwv, presumably due to the larger UK fanbase

these together mean numbers were comparable to last year. There are no numbers for the title game yet

NYC Duke Fan

04-05-2011, 06:22 AM

I forgot to add Dean Smith to the group of elite coaches who have won more than 2 NCAA titles. Once again congrats to UCONN and Coach Calhoun. It was an unbelievable run starting out as the number 9 seed in the Big East tournament and not losing a game.

I could be mistaken here, but didn't UCONN not lose a game on a neutral court all year?

After Wooden, Coach K is probably the greatest coach of all time, but I guess if Calhoun wins another, he will be right up there with him although I do not think that Calhoun has nerely as many Final 4 appearances or Final game appearances as Coach K , but I could be wrong.

Saratoga2

04-05-2011, 06:54 AM

During the first half, Butler gave UCONN 3 point looks, which they didn't want to take. Butler didn't hedge out as far as Duke and were very tough to penetrate for offense. They boxed out very well and did force UCONN into a number of turnovers. This was a demonstration of how to play defense against a poor 4 point shooting team. In the second half, they went away from this defense to try to force UCONN into even more turnovers and it cost them as UCONN made adjustments which proved to be effective.

Whether we like it or not, Duke's defense was not so good against penetration this year and we also did not box out well for rebounding. Arizona also was a far better 3 point shooting team against us than UCONN, so that facet of their game had to be accounted for.

UCONN does have length at several positions if not huge size. They are also quick off the floor and appeared to intimidate Butler into missing shots around the basket that were makable. Of course UCONN also blocked a lot of interior shots, so there was a reason to feel some intimidation.

Having a 6'5" shooting guard with talent is a real boon. That length bothered Mack, who had trouble finding open shots. He hit a few where he was guarded and had very few opportunities for jumppers. His misses inside when open appeared to be from nerves. I think last year with John Scheyer, we also had a 6'5" guard on the floor who created similar problems for the opponent. I am not a proponent of the small lineup Duke puts on the floor at times, unless the opponent is also going to small guards. I am hoping that in recruiting discussions, out coaches are looking for quickness and length at the 2 and 3 positions. Austin fills the bill and perhaps DeAndre would also. Michael is also a good fit in my view.

jdj4duke

04-05-2011, 07:07 AM

Even open looks resulted in the biggest clunkers since the 1973 Ford Fury. Disappointing in every possible way.

Plymouth Fury or Ford Fairlane. Marisa Tomei asked for the correction. Sorry-
Too bad that game can't be corrected. When Butler went down 5 in the second half, off went the TV. Shots didn't even look close to going in, and it was tough to watch the rebounding bloodbath. What a fizzle to end the season.

weezie

04-05-2011, 07:35 AM

Two years in a row now that Howard has been terrible.

Yeah, that little side-step moving pick he perfected was tissue paper against the husky.

But, on a lighter note, it's nice to see the 'holes are enjoying the spring festivities over in chapel hell...and that sorority gals are polishing their own manners:

http://deadspin.com/#!5787963

bjornolf

04-05-2011, 07:49 AM

After Wooden, Coach K is probably the greatest coach of all time, but I guess if Calhoun wins another, he will be right up there with him although I do not think that Calhoun has nerely as many Final 4 appearances or Final game appearances as Coach K , but I could be wrong.

Yea, but Calhoun cheats. He brings God to the arena, which just isn't fair. :D They did a feature on First Take yesterday, where two sweet old nuns talked about how much they loved Calhoun, and how he had personally brought them to the two (now three) Final Fours he'd won, but that they'd been meeting with a Cardinal from Rome and couldn't make it to the one UConn lost. I know everyone will say coincidence, but 3 wins with them (100%) and 1 loss without (100%) just CAN'T be ignored. And the poor old senile ladies finished by saying that they hoped Coach Calhoun continued to coach with love and integrity and honesty, just like he always had. Poor gals, fooled by that incorrigible charmer. ;)

Spret42

04-05-2011, 08:04 AM

This year, March Madness started off with remarkable games (remember all the buzzer beaters and overtimes?) and ended with a pathetic limp across the finish line. Without a doubt the most disappointing final game I've ever watched -- and one of the worst games period. Last year's championship had more drama during timeouts than a highlight reel from this pitiful stagger to a banner. Both teams played decent defense -- but so what? Even open looks resulted in the biggest clunkers since the 1973 Ford Fury. Disappointing in every possible way.

For a Duke fan it did.

If the game last night was a 2 on the scale of 1-10, last years game wasn't much more than a 4.5 from a neutral observer standpoint. Yes, it was close. But the teams shot 39% combined from the floor and the winner scored 61 points in a 40 minute game where a mid-range jump shot got you 3 points. For a Duke fan it was a "instant classic." For the rest it was a game where you wondered if this wasn't the beginning of an awful stretch of college basketball.

davekay1971

04-05-2011, 08:18 AM

For a Duke fan it did.

If the game last night was a 2 on the scale of 1-10, last years game wasn't much more than a 4.5 from a neutral observer standpoint. Yes, it was close. But the teams shot 39% combined from the floor and the winner scored 61 points in a 40 minute game where a mid-range jump shot got you 3 points. For a Duke fan it was a "instant classic." For the rest it was a game where you wondered if this wasn't the beginning of an awful stretch of college basketball.

I'm sorry, but you're dead wrong in your statement that the Duke Butler championship wasn't perceived to be a classic. Low shooting percentage and score don't define a basketball game. Yes, to us Dukies it was more memorable than it was to the rest of the nation. But the national consensus on the game was that it was, indeed, and instant classic.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/mensbasketball/2010-04-05-ncaa-championship-duke-butler_N.htm

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303411604575168054109321516.html

http://www.1011now.com/sports/headlines/90038847.html

Those 3 links (including the wsj one acknowledging the game as a classic with the caveat that even better games were played in the tournament) were just from the first page of a "duke butler classic" google search.

devildeac

04-05-2011, 08:33 AM

This game seems a bit like Duke-Arizona, except worse.

I'm not sure. If Arizona had played Butler AND uCONvicts last PM, they would have lost 94 (53+41) to 93.:rolleyes:

83bluedevil

04-05-2011, 08:34 AM

Plymouth Fury or Ford Fairlane. Marisa Tomei asked for the correction. Sorry-
Too bad that game can't be corrected. When Butler went down 5 in the second half, off went the TV. Shots didn't even look close to going in, and it was tough to watch the rebounding bloodbath. What a fizzle to end the season.

Good catch -- sorry, Plymouth. Can Marisa deliver the correction to me personally? Lots of room in the backseats of those cars . . . .

Spret42

04-05-2011, 08:45 AM

I'm sorry, but you're dead wrong in your statement that the Duke Butler championship wasn't perceived to be a classic. Low shooting percentage and score don't define a basketball game. Yes, to us Dukies it was more memorable than it was to the rest of the nation. But the national consensus on the game was that it was, indeed, and instant classic.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/mensbasketball/2010-04-05-ncaa-championship-duke-butler_N.htm

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303411604575168054109321516.html

http://www.1011now.com/sports/headlines/90038847.html

Those 3 links (including the wsj one acknowledging the game as a classic with the caveat that even better games were played in the tournament) were just from the first page of a "duke butler classic" google search.

Those were all more the immediate reactions after the game where the glow of the last second "cinderella" shot falling short in Indianapolis was bright. I remember more discussion happening in the weeks afterwards where people, to include Jay Bilas, saying that while the game was close and gutty, it wasn't necessarily a great or skillfully played basketball game. I tend to think of a "classic game" being a combination of both competitiveness and a high degree of skill being on display.

And no, low shooting percentage and score don't define a game. At the same time, high levels of skill and athleticism, combined with a team understanding do.

sporthenry

04-05-2011, 08:51 AM

Those were all more the immediate reactions after the game where the glow of the last second "cinderella" shot falling short in Indianapolis was bright. I remember more discussion happening in the weeks afterwards where people, to include Jay Bilas, saying that while the game was close and gutty, it wasn't necessarily a great or skillfully played basketball game. I tend to think of a "classic game" being a combination of both competitiveness and a high degree of skill being on display.

And no, low shooting percentage and score don't define a game. At the same time, high levels of skill and athleticism, combined with a team understanding do.

I see little comparisons to this game and last years game. Here is another article that seemed to digest how 'ugly' the game was yet enjoyed it.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2865464/duke_vs_butler_score_rare_ncaa_title_pg2.html?cat= 9

Or another blog about last night

'This game was a giant letdown in a lot of ways, and I didn't really have a dog in the fight. I would have liked to have seen Butler win just because I'd like to see a mid-major win one at some point, but more than that, I would have liked to have seen a game on the order of the Duke-Butler thriller from 2010.

No such luck. At one point, Butler was 8-for-50 from the field. The Bulldogs' story no longer felt like "Hoosiers." It felt like a bad horror film.'

sporthenry

04-05-2011, 08:54 AM

I'm sorry, but you're dead wrong in your statement that the Duke Butler championship wasn't perceived to be a classic. Low shooting percentage and score don't define a basketball game. Yes, to us Dukies it was more memorable than it was to the rest of the nation. But the national consensus on the game was that it was, indeed, and instant classic.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/mensbasketball/2010-04-05-ncaa-championship-duke-butler_N.htm

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303411604575168054109321516.html

http://www.1011now.com/sports/headlines/90038847.html

Those 3 links (including the wsj one acknowledging the game as a classic with the caveat that even better games were played in the tournament) were just from the first page of a "duke butler classic" google search.

It'd be interesting to see them do a similar approach to this year's tournament. I just think most of the 'best' games would have been a result of poor play than good play. Like the MSU/UCLA game woudl probably rank as a good game but that game was not good. Similar to Duke/Michigan, the games were a result of one team who stopped playing basketball only to let a team back in late. Similarly, the Texas and Pitt summed up the tournament for me. Stupid decisions late in the game wehre teams almost lost games as opposed to the other team winning it.

Spret42

04-05-2011, 09:16 AM

I see little comparisons to this game and last years game. Here is another article that seemed to digest how 'ugly' the game was yet enjoyed it.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2865464/duke_vs_butler_score_rare_ncaa_title_pg2.html?cat= 9

Again, I enjoyed last years game on more than a few levels. I just refuse to anoint that game as some kind of classic sporting event. It was a very good, very gutty basketball game. But it wasn't a "great" or "classic" game.

I suppose I shouldn't have said it didn't have drama in my original post. That was probably poor thinking. I equated drama with the level of play. It had a ton of drama.

sagegrouse

04-05-2011, 09:17 AM

RockyMtDevil

04-05-2011, 09:28 AM

jdj4duke

04-05-2011, 09:34 AM

I forgot to add Dean Smith to the group of elite coaches who have won more than 2 NCAA titles.

Did I misread this? I think Dean only had two titles. Or you being facetious. Or maybe the folks in the Hill just gave him credit for another to keep him in the mix.

Billy Dat

04-05-2011, 10:02 AM

-While the title game was bad to watch, I thought the tournament was really entertaining, as always. I thought all 4 regional finals and the 2 final four games were excellent.

-While UConn was not a vintage team, they did feature the guy who I think now has to be considered the best player, Kemba, whose run to the title places him ahead of Jimmer, Nolan, Sullinger, Williams, et al. Calhoun takes another step up in the coaching ladder, to the rare air of 3 titles. I agree he is insufferable, but he is a great in game coach - aside from having the balls to sit players in foul trouble for long stretches in the first half, he also made great offensive adjustments, running more of his picking activity off the baseline to free Walker and Lamb to catch at the elbow and curl. Lamb was a real difference maker, and a lot of those Butler misses were because they were thinking about getting their shot thrown.

-The "day after" is always tough. But, that's why us NBA fans have it good..another nearly 3 months of hoop, and playoff hoop at that. Go Knicks!

devildeac

04-05-2011, 10:10 AM

Did I misread this? I think Dean only had two titles. Or you being facetious. Or maybe the folks in the Hill just gave him credit for another to keep him in the mix.

Maybe he got the credit for the bakery championship from 1924:rolleyes:.

rsvman

04-05-2011, 10:12 AM

Chard

04-05-2011, 10:20 AM

The only thing I can think of that would be worse than UConn winning last night would be UNC winning. What a miserable end to the season.

Jderf

04-05-2011, 10:28 AM

I agree with others who have said that the level of play in college basketball in general has fallen considerably over the years.

About a week ago my 13-year-old son and I sat down at the TV set and watched a replay of the infamous Duke-Kentucky game that featured the Laettner last-second winning shot. We watched the game for about 10 minutes when my son turns to me and says, "Wow; these teams are both amazing!" It was immediately obvious that the level of play was multiple rungs up the ladder over what we have been seeing in this year's tournament.

If you have access to it, watch it again and see for yourself. It's like night and day.

I agree with you in the overall sense that the NCAA is "down" in some ways and that there aren't quite as many star players right now as in the past. But at the same time, I would have to caution against using the Laettner Game (unanimously regarded as one of the greatest basketball games of all time) as a benchmark performance for the rest of college basketball. Of course the level of play in that game is going to be higher than any game you watch in a given year; that's why the Laettner Game is a classic, and the others aren't.

OZZIE4DUKE

04-05-2011, 10:33 AM

That's what happens when you have an 8 seed play a 4 seed and they play like an 8 seed and a 4 seed. It was a horrible game played by mediocre teams. Big contrast to last season's Championship game. End of season, end of story.

A-Tex Devil

04-05-2011, 11:03 AM

Ohio St. wins the Sugar Bowl
Oregon and Auburn play for the men's title in football
Only fitting that UCONN wins

Which in the end tells you that even if you (or your dad) get caught, you are still welcome to a championship within a few months or less.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/story/14901892/in-these-days-of-misconduct-uconn-an-appropriate-champion

Thought this quote was a telling reminder of the excuse those that bend the rules always fall back on: "I used to think that other people write your legacy, [but] I guess as I've seen some things with some of my fellow coaches, like Jim Tressel and other folks, I wonder really what your legacy does become," Calhoun said. "Do facts write [your legacy] or do other people think they can by some supposition define what the facts are or aren't [and write your legacy]? My legacy -- if it ever comes down to who I am, what I am -- all I've ever asked anyone to ever do was talk to my players."

I get it. Your kids love you. The kids love Tressell. They loved Tark and Jim Harrick too. They loved Jackie Sherrill and Barry Switzer and Tim Floyd. They love Calipari and his plausible deniability. They loved Pat Dye, Kelvin Sampson and Bruce Pearl.

At the end of the day, Coach Calhoun, you will be remembered with the above list, and not Allen, K, Knight, Smith, R. Williams and Wooden.

loldevilz

04-05-2011, 11:27 AM

For a Duke fan it did.

If the game last night was a 2 on the scale of 1-10, last years game wasn't much more than a 4.5 from a neutral observer standpoint. Yes, it was close. But the teams shot 39% combined from the floor and the winner scored 61 points in a 40 minute game where a mid-range jump shot got you 3 points. For a Duke fan it was a "instant classic." For the rest it was a game where you wondered if this wasn't the beginning of an awful stretch of college basketball.

Duke had the best offensive performance against Butler of the whole tournament. Its not like Duke played badly and Butler played worse which is what I would say this game was like. Last years game was well played, its just that Butler makes it look like bad basketball.

IMO Butler was a better team last year, too. Hayward was their best player last year and there were a top 10 team and had a 27 game win streak coming in or something ridiculous like that. This year they were actually more of a cinderella.

ncexnyc

04-05-2011, 11:32 AM

Butler basketball is absolutely ugly. They've all but destroyed the last two title games with their style of play. Some may say it is basketball at it's purest, I say it is basketball for guys who can't play basketball. Pushing, shoving, holding, moving picks, hacking, bricking...It's been a nice story but it's time for them to go away.

If these two teams are the best two teams college bball has to offer, we should all find another sport to watch, like women's lacrosse.

I've seen this before, but Duke was substituted for Butler. Our UNC friends would say this is exactly how our team plays.:D

I'm sorry, but this thread has turned into another excuse fest. I'm picking up lots of we could have done better vibes. Aside from us getting bounced the way we did, I thought this was a very entertaining tourney with a number of exciting games that went down to the wire.

Atlanta Duke

04-05-2011, 12:11 PM

Pat Forde sums up my views regarding the state of the college game, both on the court and off

To cap this black-eye evening, we got to watch a coach on probation accept the national championship trophy from an athletic director under investigation. UConn's Jim Calhoun, who was sanctioned by the NCAA in February for violations in his program, took the hardware from Ohio State AD and Division I Men's Basketball Committee chairman Gene Smith, who now will return to Columbus to deal with the brewing scandal in his football program....

Bottom line: This is a flawed sport at the moment, in terms of both rules compliance and quality of play. There are no great teams, and not enough clean programs.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/tournament/2011/columns/story?columnist=forde_pat&id=6294241

If everyone comes back at UNC there might be a great team in 2011-12. The chance of having such a team this past season ended during the Duke-Butler game in December.

Spret42

04-05-2011, 12:22 PM

I've seen this before, but Duke was substituted for Butler. Our UNC friends would say this is exactly how our team plays.:D

I'm sorry, but this thread has turned into another excuse fest. I'm picking up lots of we could have done better vibes. Aside from us getting bounced the way we did, I thought this was a very entertaining tourney with a number of exciting games that went down to the wire.

It is exactly how Duke plays.........defense. Duke's defense has always bordered on uglying the game up.

The difference is that Duke has in the past transferred that defense into great transition basketball. College basketball is all about defense, defense, defense now, but it lacks the kind of players necessary to turn defense into explosive offense the way teams of the past did.

Spret42

04-05-2011, 12:35 PM

Duke had the best offensive performance against Butler of the whole tournament. Its not like Duke played badly and Butler played worse which is what I would say this game was like. Last years game was well played, its just that Butler makes it look like bad basketball.

IMO Butler was a better team last year, too. Hayward was their best player last year and there were a top 10 team and had a 27 game win streak coming in or something ridiculous like that. This year they were actually more of a cinderella.

I agree actually. Duke didn't play badly in 2010, they played as well as a team with the level of talent and skill they possessed should play. Butler did as well.

That game didn't possess the kind of players to make it into a classic, 4.5 stars out of 5 game. Give Butler Kevin Love and Duke Derrick Rose and we are talking about an entirely different game. Those two players change the dynamic of the way each team plays defense against the other. That game finishes 80-79 and we are talking about a classic game. I really believe that.

2010 was a well played game by two teams with a fairly limited skill set. Last nights game was a terribly played game by two teams with an extremely limited skill set.

Duke Parent 06

04-05-2011, 01:14 PM

The only thing I can think of that would be worse than UConn winning last night would be UNC winning. What a miserable end to the season.
The only thing I can think of that would be worse than UNC winning would be us self-immolating in a championship game like Butler did.

brevity

04-05-2011, 02:40 PM

Wild theory: I think some devious equipment manager took the basketball rim from the 1999 championship game and installed it in Houston this weekend. Some of Butler's second half shots weren't bad, but that rim was unforgiving. It resulted in 19 points for each half. (Memo to Brad Stevens: get your guys to dunk the ball once in a while.) So basically Jim Calhoun can thank that behind-the-scenes guy for 2 of his titles.

More seriously: There was some sentiment on another thread that Stevens built Butler up from nothing, but if you notice, Calhoun did the same thing. Most if not all of the Huskies' success has come under his watch, including all 4 Final Four appearances and 3 titles, in the time (1999-2011) that it took Kentucky to return to the Final Four just once.

uh_no

04-05-2011, 02:57 PM

More seriously: There was some sentiment on another thread that Stevens built Butler up from nothing, but if you notice, Calhoun did the same thing. Most if not all of the Huskies' success has come under his watch, including all 4 Final Four appearances and 3 titles, in the time (1999-2011) that it took Kentucky to return to the Final Four just once.

While that is true, your time frame conveniently ignores the fact that UK wont the title just the year before. That said, one can't argue that Uconn has been among the top programs in the last 15 years.

Personally I don't think anything can compare to the overall success duke has had over that time span, but you can't argue with 4 final 4's and 3 championships.

That said, with this year, duke moves out of the 'last 10 years' time frame for thair 2001 title, meaning that here is the count by conference

ACC: 4(UNCx2 duke maryland)
BE: 3(Uconnx2 syracuse)
SEC: 2(UF x2)
B10: 1(MSU)

Chard

04-05-2011, 08:45 PM

The only thing I can think of that would be worse than UNC winning would be us self-immolating in a championship game like Butler did.

Touché

anon

04-05-2011, 08:51 PM

While that is true, your time frame conveniently ignores the fact that UK wont the title just the year before. That said, one can't argue that Uconn has been among the top programs in the last 15 years.

Personally I don't think anything can compare to the overall success duke has had over that time span, but you can't argue with 4 final 4's and 3 championships.

That said, with this year, duke moves out of the 'last 10 years' time frame for thair 2001 title, meaning that here is the count by conference

ACC: 4(UNCx2 duke maryland)
BE: 3(Uconnx2 syracuse)
SEC: 2(UF x2)
B10: 1(MSU)

Kansas goes in, MSU goes out.