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davekay1971
04-02-2011, 08:37 AM
I know. I don't like it. You don't like it. OK, uh_no likes UConn, but he grew up there and we love him anyway. But for most of the rest of it, shortly before 9 pm tonight the ugly truth is going to happen. Calipari and Calhoun will lead their teams Ethically Questionable Bowl.

What's the outcome you want to see?

DukeUsul
04-02-2011, 08:39 AM
Kentucky. It'll be vacated anyway.

Or Kentucky, I don't want Calhoun getting any closer to K.

davekay1971
04-02-2011, 08:47 AM
I'm hoping for the Devil to appear in a puff of crimson smoke at midcourt the moment the final buzzer sounds and claim the mortal souls that both coaches sold him 20 years ago.

Barring that, I'll take Calipari for the same reasons as DukeUsul - I have faith that within 5 years Calipari will still be sitting on 0 (zero) final four appearances. I have equal faith that if Calhoun wins he'll ride off into the sunset with 3 nattys leaving his successor to deal with a boatload of NCAA sanctions on the UConn program.

Duke: A Dynasty
04-02-2011, 08:57 AM
Easy Uconn because of Walker and I do not like Calamari

wilko
04-02-2011, 09:07 AM
I'm thinking Uconn.....
I think Butler or VCU has a better chance against them than KY.

moonpie23
04-02-2011, 09:13 AM
i want the team that is going to leave it all on the floor tonight to win.....uk OR uconn ....doesn't matter.....

then i want that winning team to fold like a cheap suit monday night...

gumbomoop
04-02-2011, 09:21 AM
Although my response doesn't fit the, uh, "spirit" of the thread's "Grit your teeth" motif, I'm hoping for 2 really interesting and intense games this evening.

I've posted on other threads that all 4 teams have interesting stories this season. It's true that Calipari and Calhoun do not represent the best - nor even the merely respectable - in coaching ethics, and it takes some temporary "forgetting" of that to focus instead on the actual and admirable play of UK and UConn at season's end. Kemba Walker has been brilliant, the young UConn guys unflappable. Brandon Knight has been clutch, Josh Harrellson a great, great story [for which Calipari gets a whole lot of credit], and I wonder whether Liggins will defend Kemba.

The other side of the bracket, of course, is nothing but uplifting story after story. I know a few posters will not forgive Matt Howard for the borderline-dirty pick on Singler - though I doubt Singler had any serious problem with it - and for "hurting Kyrie" - which Howard did not do. But Stevens is such an admirable coach and man, not to mention a brilliant D coach, that I'd very much like to see a long-term Duke-Butler series. Frankly, that's the only possible way I could see Stevens someday becoming Duke's coach, which in any case seems a long-long shot; Stevens might just create a legend at Butler.

And VCU's run is so remarkable, their several wins so impressive.

Overall, for me, there have been so many good games that it's taken the edge off the "Kyrie-and-what-might-have been" dismay. The NC could still end up on a sour note, but I hope not. I'm hoping that inspiring play and great games will win out.

dukelifer
04-02-2011, 09:22 AM
i want the team that is going to leave it all on the floor tonight to win.....uk OR uconn ....doesn't matter.....

then i want that winning team to fold like a cheap suit monday night...

UConn in a marathon 12 OTs that ends Sunday at 4:00 AM.

devildeac
04-02-2011, 09:34 AM
UConn in a marathon 12 OTs that ends Sunday at 4:00 AM.

Then, they party for another 12 hours after the game, leaving them so exhausted they can barely drag their feet across the floor Monday night. Go Butler (or VCU)!

uh_no
04-02-2011, 09:54 AM
Gonna have to go with Uconn on this one :)

That said: I think Digger is going to pick Notre Dame and Hubert is going to pick UNC....Bilas will pick both since neither is Duke, and though Dicky V will make a pick, no one will be able to discern it through the mindless drivel.

Isn't it odd that while all the commentators say this final 4 is wide open, they all pick Kentucky? If it were truly wide open, you'd have about equal shares of people picking each...

JTH
04-02-2011, 10:10 AM
When asked who he preferred win a much anticipated match up between UNC and Virgina during the Sampson, Worthy, Perkins era, "I hope they both lose."

ArkieDukie
04-02-2011, 10:15 AM
When asked who he preferred win a much anticipated match up between UNC and Virgina during the Sampson, Worthy, Perkins era, "I hope they both lose."

I'm pulling for a meteor to take out both teams. That, or a giant sinkhole. Barring that, I like the idea of the 12 overtime game.

jdj4duke
04-02-2011, 10:35 AM
KY. Capillary is slimy but little Jimmy C is repugnant. Not only NCAA questions, but the raft of actual lawbreaking miscreants he, and his University, have coddled and condoned is too much for me. And I want as much distance between him and K as possible.

In the "with whom would you have a beer" scenario, I would clearly but reluctantly choose John. But I would only have one, and maybe a pony at that.

The other minor benefit to KY winning is that it will stick in the collective UNC craw more than a UCon victory and that is always worth some bonus points.

duke4ever19
04-02-2011, 10:40 AM
I think Butler, provided they advance, could take down a team like UConn. Kentucky seems to have better personnel overall (besides Kemba) and would/could cause the Bulldogs some trouble. Either way, I think Butler wins the whole thing. Not just because I want them to either.

HK Dukie
04-02-2011, 10:43 AM
I hope Kentucky beats Uconn. Don't want Uconn claiming 3 titles in 12 years vs our 2.

Plus if you squint your eyes and hold you nose, the kentucky uniforms look kinda like ours.

Lord Ash
04-02-2011, 10:44 AM
UConn. Cal is just disgusting, and Kentucky fans are the worst I've ever seen, so I don't want them to have a chance to celebrate.

Oh, and this should have been a poll!! Any chance a mod could add one?

SuperTurkey
04-02-2011, 11:09 AM
UConn. Despite the likely early entry of Knight and maybe Jones, UK has so much talent coming in next year that they're a legit candidate to repeat if they win.

College basketball doesn't deserve that.

Native
04-02-2011, 11:30 AM
Kentucky.

Why? If UConn wins, I lose my bracket pool. If UConn loses, I lose. Not much incentive for me to cheer for the Connvicts.

roywhite
04-02-2011, 11:32 AM
Kentucky.

I have a few clients and friends who are from Kentucky. Nice folks, and it will mean a lot to them for the Wildcats to win.

Kdogg
04-02-2011, 11:32 AM
I'm pulling for a meteor to take out both teams. That, or a giant sinkhole. Barring that, I like the idea of the 12 overtime game.

There's too much collateral damage in the first scenario. I'm wishing both teams get food piosoning and the Bulter/VCU takes it all. It's not totally implausible as Arsenal fans (English football) can attest to. If that doesn't happen, I prefer UK as the lessor of two evils. Three titles would put Calhoun ahead of Dean, tied with Knight and only one back of K.

1999ballboy
04-02-2011, 11:38 AM
I don't like either coach one bit, but I do like Kemba Walker quite a bit. Compared to past UConn stars, he's one of the most likable guys they've had leading their team. He's not a criminal (Marcus Williams), he doesn't look like an antelope (Josh Boone), he's not irritatingly heralded by the media as a saint (Emeka Okafor and Hasheem Thabeet), and he's not a tub of lard (Khalid El-Amin). But Kemba deserves the success he's had. There's not a guy on the Kentucky team that particularly draws me toward him that way.

dukelilsis
04-02-2011, 11:44 AM
I cheer for Kemba Walker. He's a great player but both of the coaches and programs are abhorrent in my opinion. On Monday, I'll be pulling for the winner of the VCU/Butler game--hopefully Butler.

No Cute Name
04-02-2011, 11:58 AM
Kentucky. They've earned that for taking UNC out, no? Knight and Liggins earned a special place in my heart. It would be Calhoun's third title. Can't have that. And how can you not like Josh Harrellson?

Obviously, Butler/VCU all the way in the championship.

brevity
04-02-2011, 12:09 PM
Connecticut, I guess. I don't feel strongly for or against either team. But I'm more impressed by the Huskies' late season run with a bunch of freshmen than Kentucky's.

To most of you, so quick to dismiss these Kentucky (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/team/roster/_/id/96/kentucky-wildcats) and Connecticut (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/team/roster/_/id/41/connecticut-huskies) teams on moral grounds: do any of you really have a problem with any of the players on their roster?

I get that you don't like the coaches -- no argument from me there. And I agree that not liking a coach is a good enough reason to root against the team. But sometimes I get the feeling that the DBR sentiment is that the Kentucky and Connecticut players are slimy by association. Seems a wee unfair to them.

Aside from Brandon Knight popping his Kentucky jersey* after one of his winning shots, I don't have a problem with the young men on either side of that semifinal game. I will certainly hope that Saturday's winner loses in Monday's final, but I am steeling myself for the likelihood that Connecticut or Kentucky will win a national championship, and that the NCAA will not be looking to take it away.

*Memo to players: you do NOT pop your jersey if you represent a big program. Imagine that your audience is a lone senior citizen reading the jersey.

Proper: "What's that jersey say... oh, Bucknell. How about that."
Improper: "Honey, that punk Carolina kid is showing off. We know all about Carolina. Settle down."

Duvall
04-02-2011, 12:09 PM
The Yahoo! Sports special investigation.

Kentucky. Calhoun doesn't deserve the chance to walk away with a championship.

moonpie23
04-02-2011, 12:09 PM
Three titles would put Calhoun ahead of Dean, tied with Knight and only one back of K.

this is definitely cause for concern

Buckeye Devil
04-02-2011, 12:19 PM
UK fans are about as obnoxious as it gets. A nest of them were at our area Panera on Sunday. There were all decked out in their UK garb and they sat there for the longest time. Clearly, they were rubbing it in the faces of Ohio State fans and wanted everyone to see they were UK fans. It was nauseating.

I hate UCONN for their lucky win in 1999 and for knocking Duke out in 2004 plus I generally despise the northeast. I don't want Calhoun to get 3 NC's but let's face it, he is not going to get a 4th. He is old and his future is really cloudy right now. K has a better chance to get 5 than Calhoun has to get 4.

Given that I know some UK fans and that I live in neighboring Ohio, I go for UCONN. At least I would not have to listen to all of them boast about winning a N/C. Plus, I think Butler will beat UCONN.

throatybeard
04-02-2011, 12:30 PM
Why did we need yet another thread on this?

fisheyes
04-02-2011, 12:31 PM
Holding my nose....Kentucky. Then Butler Monday night.

I live in CT. I will not be able to stand going to work, grocery shopping, or simply breathing the air in CT if the UConvicts win. I also don't want Calhoun getting another championship. Having said that, however, maybe he'll quit if he wins his third. Nah, too arrogant.

Dr. Rosenrosen
04-02-2011, 12:41 PM
...just cheer for the winner of the other game. it's much easier and doesn't require an extra shower.

weezie
04-02-2011, 01:12 PM
Oh yeah... a couple more games tonight. Almost forgot in the excitement of the mulch load being delivered along with the attic clean-out festival I'm having here during all my free time :(
ky, because Johnny C is insufferable and it will give the talking heads and sportswriters something with which to foam themselves into oblivion.

Devil in the Blue Dress
04-02-2011, 01:47 PM
I'm with Lefty on this one. :D :cool: :eek:

Troublemaker
04-02-2011, 02:21 PM
UK, easy. Calipari has 0, Calhoun has 2. Plus, I feel like we owe UK at least one more game of support since they denied UNC a Final Four. Rooting for Butler/VCU in the NC game would be fair, though.

DukieInKansas
04-02-2011, 02:28 PM
Why did we need yet another thread on this?

So you could pad your post count? ;)

For the sake of those living in the land of the missing D & E, I will, reluctantly, pull for UConn for 1 game, and 1 game only. But I do like the 12 OT optioin to go along with this!

chris13
04-02-2011, 02:54 PM
If Kentucky wins the national championship I have a hard time believing that the NCAA will vacate the title, even if Calipari is continuing his shady ways from Memphis and UMASS.

Vacating a Final Four appearance makes the NCAA look like they are willing to punish teams that have amost won. Punishing the team that actually wins the tournament makes the whole thing seem like a sham.

As for the actual question, go UCONN, but really go Butler and/or VCU.

Poincaré
04-02-2011, 03:08 PM
As others have pointed out, Kentucky and UConn are equally dirty.

I know Kentucky is the "nouveau dirty" these days, and it is more fashionable to dump on them, but the infamous laptop-gate was not that long ago.

Names like Lamar Butler, Tony Skinn, Jai Lewis and Folarin Campbell will never be erased from my memory, not just because they made the Final Four, but because they beat both the Conn-victs and the Tar Holes on their way there. With JJ and Shelden's senior season going down in flames, it was comforting that Calhoun was prevented from cheating his way to a championship (recall that he suspended Marcus Williams, the star PG, for half of that season while kicking the scrub off the team for laptop-gate).

It comes down to simple math. If Calhoun wins one, he gets 3. Ergo, root for the guy with 0. Like others have pointed out, any Kentucky championship has a fighting chance of being vacated at a later date.

Cameron
04-02-2011, 03:18 PM
KY. Capillary is slimy but little Jimmy C is repugnant. Not only NCAA questions, but the raft of actual lawbreaking miscreants he, and his University, have coddled and condoned is too much for me. And I want as much distance between him and K as possible.


This.

If I have to listen to Jim Calhoun answer another post-game interview question with "We have Kemba," I think I might polish off a bottle of acetaminophen. Then again, I have a lot of hate in my heart. Sometimes, I feel sports are more fun to watch when rooting against a team. There's something deliciously sublime about watching a team of people you hate not fulfill their most cherished dreams.

There are no two people (outside of the Carolina family, of course) I deplore more in college basketball today than Jim Calhoun and Kemba Walker. And there doesn't have to be any rationality behind it, even though Jim's about as reputable as one of Captain Hook's hookers. I hated former UConn forward Hilton Armstrong because I thought his head was the most stupid head I've ever seen with regard to how far it stood above the rest of his body. (Is that wrong? I don't care. He played basketball like the Seattle Space Needle and I hated him for it.) That '06 UConn team was truly objectionable. I watch the George Mason game that I taped in case of an upset whenever I need a quick pick-me-up. (Aside from every televised Duke game, I always record North Carolina and UConn games in the NCAAs that could result in an embarrassing exit. Needless to say, Jim Larranaga has been good to me. Bill Self's 2008 40-to-12 gem is by far my favorite March classic, however.)

Bottom line, Jim Calhoun is a SOB and I'd rather see Kentucky enter the NBA Playoffs and beat the Lakers to win the Finals than to see Calhoun have any success in life. I mean, I don't want his cancer to win, but that's the best I can wish him. He's appalling. I will be cheering unashamedly for Big Blue Nation today.

Atlanta Duke
04-02-2011, 03:20 PM
This tweet from The Wall Street Journal sums it up for me

There are two Final Four games today - one to make you feel good, and the other to make you feel gross.

http://twitter.com/jasongayWSJ/status/54238640641019904

I will reluctantly support UConn - do not want Calipari to ever win a NC and I think VCU or Butler will have a better shot against UConn than either would against Kentucky

uh_no
04-02-2011, 03:29 PM
I know Kentucky is the "nouveau dirty" these days, and it is more fashionable to dump on them, but the infamous laptop-gate was not that long ago.


nouveau dirty??? UK has dirty since the rupp days...

BattierBattalion
04-02-2011, 03:37 PM
For me the choice is clear. I consider Jim Calhoun to be one of the most reprehensible coaches in sports today. This is a guy who goes after talented but morally-bereft players at the expense of everything decent. Anyone who believes that he didn't know about the benefits that Nate Mills received are lying to themselves. Head coaches know everything that goes on in their program. Everything. He knew Nate Mills was getting paid.

Calhoun is also willing to sacrifice anything and anyone to satisfy his maniacal notion that he's the best coach ever. He forces kids to transfer if he doesn't think they're good enough for the program. He had two assistant coaches take the fall for Mills controversy. And he constantly belittles other coaches and programs in a backhanded way.

While Calipari probably cheats and says a lot of stupid things, I appreciate how much he actually cares about his kids. He sees himself as the bridge to better their opportunities.

uh_no
04-02-2011, 04:01 PM
He forces kids to transfer if he doesn't think they're good enough for the program.

Taylor King.

roywhite
04-02-2011, 04:09 PM
Taylor King.

Taylor King, who went to Villanova and left there, and then couldn't decide what his 3rd college would be? He was forced out by Duke coaches? and this is somehow a strike against Duke? or some evidence that "everybody does it"?

licc85
04-02-2011, 04:10 PM
As much as I dislike Jim Calhoun, I dislike Calipari even more . . . I want UK to lose, but its all about the other side of the final 4 for me, I think Butler needs to win this championship. GO BULLDOGS

uh_no
04-02-2011, 04:17 PM
Taylor King, who went to Villanova and left there, and then couldn't decide what his 3rd college would be? He was forced out by Duke coaches? and this is somehow a strike against Duke? or some evidence that "everybody does it"?

General understanding I got from being on campus was that he was encouraged to leave, yes, due to a variety of drug/attitude/effort issues.

I don't think it's an indictment, it's just something that happens when a player does not live up to the expected standards of the program. Whether it's not working hard enough, not having a good attitude, or criminal issues. Asking a kid to transfer is really no different from kicking them off the team.

In the case of Calhoun, he certainly has a personality that clashes with certain players. There have been enough 'bad' players that have gone through Uconn's system for me to honestly believe that a kid not playing well enough would get them the boot. There is, however, evidence that his personality might cause the coach and athlete to part ways. This year Jamaal Coombs-Mcdaniels clashed a TON with calhoun, and they were talking about transferring....despite Jamaal significantly underperforming in his time in storrs, Calhoun had to convince him NOT to transfer. The other kids that left the program were also guys with terrible personalities, so I have no doubt in my mind that the coach/athlete relationship did not work out and that the kid transferring was mutually beneficial and accepted by both parties.

Not to let calipari go free here, when he moved into UK, he revoked the scholarships of several players on the team....that's just as bad...

Cameron
04-02-2011, 05:33 PM
He forces kids to transfer if he doesn't think they're good enough for the program.


Taylor King

There's quite a pronounced difference between encouraging a scholarship kid to leave the program due to alleged substance abuse and championing a kid's transfer because of an insufficient crossover dribble.

And, as we know, Jim Calhoun certainly doesn't have any issue with letting an offender take the court for his beloved Huskies as long as it means a pile of wins. Hell, UConn's point guard for the 2006 national championship run was a kleptomaniac. If I remember correctly, Marcus "Inspiron Pentium Processor" Williams was the first basketball player since Chris Washburn to score more community service hours than points. But, that's what made '06 Connecticut so special. As thick as thieves they were.

Go Butler.

hudlow
04-02-2011, 05:42 PM
I'm going with Butler. I'm still ABC which now includes...

Kentucky

VCU

and UConn

GO DUKE!!!

uh_no
04-02-2011, 06:35 PM
There's quite a pronounced difference between encouraging a scholarship kid to leave the program due to alleged substance abuse and championing a kid's transfer because of an insufficient crossover dribble.


Examples of calhoun doing this?

Cameron
04-02-2011, 06:52 PM
Examples of calhoun doing this?

I offer no specific examples of UConn transfers. I was simply commenting on BattierBatallion's quote and your response to it in the form of "Taylor King."

My primary example of Jim Calhoun being a person of ill repute is the case of Calhoun allowing a former inmate (while only briefly detained and subsequently released on community service sentencing) play point guard for his national championship contender in 2006. It's all about integrity and lawful compliance at the U. Winning is just whipped cream.

Oh, and there's also the fact that he's coaching in the Final Four while currently on NCAA probation.

bluepenguin
04-02-2011, 07:11 PM
Want them both to lose. Even though I think I hate Ucons worse than KY, if Ucons wins, my daughter wins the pool. If KY wins, she comes in second.

billyj
04-02-2011, 07:17 PM
Rooting for Kentucky. The probability of Kentucky vacate this year's win is 0.3. I will never believe Calipari can run a clean program. ;);) Circle me a hater!

DevilHorns
04-02-2011, 07:33 PM
Funny how something like this leaks during the Final 4:

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/news?slug=ap-finalfour-uconn-miles&active_dimension=carousel_ncaab_top_headlines&ysp_frm_woah=1

Not what Calhoun wants to hear whispers about right now.

weezie
04-02-2011, 08:05 PM
Is this vcu butler game not lame? sighhhhh

Cameron
04-02-2011, 08:09 PM
Guess we can't discuss a non-Duke tournament game here. Lol.

WakeDevil
04-02-2011, 08:42 PM
Anyone who pulls for Kentucky should start pulling for Smurf U aka Orange County Community College.

kinsman_bob
04-02-2011, 08:42 PM
You have coach , who should be suspended for the tournament and a coach who will have this FF vacated in the next 3 - 5 years. I hope the NCAA leadership is ashamed of this and will move quickly to vacate both of these teams' FF. I think I'll go to bed and root like the dickens for Butler on Monday night.

CLW
04-02-2011, 09:09 PM
I dislike UConn (for obvious reason) but I HATE Calipari/Kentucky.

I'll root for UConn take a shower and then hop back on the Butler train to the title.

Bluedevil114
04-02-2011, 09:29 PM
The Cheater Meter Decible is high in this game. One of the highest readings ever.

roywhite
04-02-2011, 09:44 PM
Currently going back and forth between hoops and Shawshank Redemption on TCM; I've seen Shawshank about 8 or 10 times already, but it's a classic.

Doesn't seem like a Final Four without Duke or UNC.

hurleyfor3
04-02-2011, 10:00 PM
We'd be up 20 on either of these teams at halftime. OK, maybe up 15 against uconn and up 25 against ky. That bothers me far more than playing moral referee.

SuperTurkey
04-02-2011, 10:05 PM
We'd be up 20 on either of these teams at halftime. OK, maybe up 15 against uconn and up 25 against ky. That bothers me far more than playing moral referee.

Word. What a lackluster first half.

I guess the high quality of play in the NBA this season has raised my expectations for games involving professional basketball players.

throatybeard
04-02-2011, 11:16 PM
OK, I'm locking this sad little hate-fest.