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View Full Version : Are We Overlooking Quinn Cook?



licc85
03-29-2011, 05:35 PM
I understand that the biggest question for 2012 is Kyrie's decision to go pro or stay at Duke. Assuming he goes pro, which I think is the most likely scenario, we would have a hole in our lineup at the point guard position. Lets take a look at our options for that spot:

Seth Curry - Decent but not great ball handler, not the quickest or fastest guy, great shooter, does not have great size, good ball pressure on D, VERY intelligent on both ends, needs to work on his ability to slash and make plays.

Seth is just more naturally fit to play the 2 guard role. He plays great off the ball running around screens to get open for threes. He can also occasionally get his man in the air or make a nice move o get into the lane to make a play, but his game is spotting up for open jumpers.

Tyler Thornton - Excellent defender, plays all out all the time, not the best athlete, surprisingly good court vision, decent shooter, but not reliable from long range, makes some poor decisions with the ball sometimes, decent ball handler

Tyler is an excellent defender off the bench, he makes plays with his energy and hustle, but just isn't quite ready to start yet.

Quinn Cook (my observations from high school and all start games such as elite 24, etc.) - Actually more athletic than advertised, still not a world class athlete or have great size, but a VERY good college athlete, very quick, very fast with the ball, pass first mentality, streaky shooter who sometimes takes ill-advised shots, has great handles, good court vision, gets teammates involved constantly, excellent on the ball defender.

well . . I may have played Quinn up a bit more than intended, but it seems like a no brainer to me to have quinn come off the bench to start the year, but to groom him so that he can come in and start sometime during the ACC schedule.

Are we so worried about Kyrie's decision that we fail to see what a good point guard we have coming in? Quinn comes to Duke with relatively no hype compared to his future teammate Austin Rivers, but is one of the smartest, craftiest players at his position. He obviously doesnt have the physical tools of a guy like Marquis Teague or the God-given talent of a guy like Kyrie, but I think he's just as good if not better than a similar player such as Kendall Marshall. Isn't that just fine for what we need at that position next year? Our leading scorers will be Austin, Seth, and Ryan in some order, and I'm confident that quinn can get those guys the ball in right spots. I think our holes in the frontcourt are a much bigger issue, as well as our overall team defense.

ncexnyc
03-29-2011, 05:51 PM
I understand that the biggest question for 2012 is Kyrie's decision to go pro or stay at Duke. Assuming he goes pro, which I think is the most likely scenario, we would have a hole in our lineup at the point guard position. Lets take a look at our options for that spot:

Seth Curry - Decent but not great ball handler, not the quickest or fastest guy, great shooter, does not have great size, good ball pressure on D, VERY intelligent on both ends, needs to work on his ability to slash and make plays.

Seth is just more naturally fit to play the 2 guard role. He plays great off the ball running around screens to get open for threes. He can also occasionally get his man in the air or make a nice move o get into the lane to make a play, but his game is spotting up for open jumpers.

Tyler Thornton - Excellent defender, plays all out all the time, not the best athlete, surprisingly good court vision, decent shooter, but not reliable from long range, makes some poor decisions with the ball sometimes, decent ball handler

Tyler is an excellent defender off the bench, he makes plays with his energy and hustle, but just isn't quite ready to start yet.

Quinn Cook (my observations from high school and all start games such as elite 24, etc.) - Actually more athletic than advertised, still not a world class athlete or have great size, but a VERY good college athlete, very quick, very fast with the ball, pass first mentality, streaky shooter who sometimes takes ill-advised shots, has great handles, good court vision, gets teammates involved constantly, excellent on the ball defender.

well . . I may have played Quinn up a bit more than intended, but it seems like a no brainer to me to have quinn come off the bench to start the year, but to groom him so that he can come in and start sometime during the ACC schedule.

Are we so worried about Kyrie's decision that we fail to see what a good point guard we have coming in? Quinn comes to Duke with relatively no hype compared to his future teammate Austin Rivers, but is one of the smartest, craftiest players at his position. He obviously doesnt have the physical tools of a guy like Marquis Teague or the God-given talent of a guy like Kyrie, but I think he's just as good if not better than a similar player such as Kendall Marshall. Isn't that just fine for what we need at that position next year? Our leading scorers will be Austin, Seth, and Ryan in some order, and I'm confident that quinn can get those guys the ball in right spots. I think our holes in the frontcourt are a much bigger issue, as well as our overall team defense.
I think you're selling TT short. The kid did get a couple of starts and the negatives you listed for him will only improve with more reps. I believe he's got a leg up on Cook and possibly even Curry for the starting PG spot. A lot will depend on how the battle for the 3 shakes out.

licc85
03-29-2011, 05:54 PM
I think you're selling TT short. The kid did get a couple of starts and the negatives you listed for him will only improve with more reps. I believe he's got a leg up on Cook and possibly even Curry for the starting PG spot. A lot will depend on how the battle for the 3 shakes out.

you could be right. After watching freshman nolan smith become senior noaln smith, i've gotta believe that anything is possible, but Tyler just doesnt strike me as a floor general as of now. I want to see how Quinn does in the McD's AA game tonight. I think it will be a competitive game, and quinn will be looking to show off his skills.

DukieinSoCal
03-29-2011, 05:54 PM
Nice post. I think and hope that you may be right on. We might be overlooking Quinn a bit because he hasn't generated much buzz this year, even being outplayed at times by other PGs like Scott(head to head) and Kabongo. Some of that is very likely due to a knee injury he suffered a few months back. Hopefully, he'll continue to regain his explosion and confidence and be ready for the fall.

Another good thing is that Quinn will probably be at Duke for at least 2 years. He doesn't seem like a one and done prospect. We sure could use some stability at the PG spot.

LSanders
03-29-2011, 05:57 PM
IMO ... Kyrie is a game-changer. Compare the first 8 games to the rest. Kyrie's foot speed and ball speed enable him to penetrate better than anyone we've had since J Will. Forcing the defense to collapse on him - drawing defenders away from others (like Mason) - is why Frank Martin said we were unguardable. That type player doesn't come along very often.

QC should be pretty much everything you describe from what I've read. He should be a terrific pass-first point guard. But, he won't be a game changer. If Kyrie decides to stay one more year so he can wear a Duke uniform rather than work with a personal trainer for a year while he waits for the NBA to work out a new CBA, we will have one of the strongest backcourts ever. We will, again, be like the team K described: we will be able to go into any restaurant and order whatever we want without regard to price. Having only one senior won't matter as much. Our athleticism will overwhelm most opponents.

Without Kyrie, we'll have to be a little more price conscious. That takes nothing away from QC or any of the other players. In the 1990s, we had Hurley with his uncanny ability to see the court. In the 2000s, we had J Will with his Superman-like speed and upper body strength. The 2010s gave us Kyrie. Players like him don't come around that often.

But, K's taken his recruiting to a new level lately. We may not be the "jet" team, but we'll be very, very good for a long time to come.

J4Kop99
03-29-2011, 05:59 PM
you could be right. After watching freshman nolan smith become senior noaln smith, i've gotta believe that anything is possible, but Tyler just doesnt strike me as a floor general as of now. I want to see how Quinn does in the McD's AA game tonight. I think it will be a competitive game, and quinn will be looking to show off his skills.

I believe the game is actually on Wednesday.

Duke: A Dynasty
03-29-2011, 06:04 PM
Curry- great shooter, does not turn the ball over, average height, lots of experience, and played great down the stretch this past year.

TT- Has been learning under Coach K for a year, has more college playing time than Cook, plays great D.

Coach values the guys whi have been there before which gives these two a big advantage over Cook. Cook is not a 1 or 2 year guy either, he is by most accounts a 3 or 4 year guy.

deezl
03-29-2011, 06:21 PM
Sorry, but I think Quinn is better than Tyler already. We shall see...

Greg_Newton
03-29-2011, 06:30 PM
In our defense, he's very short. It's easy to do. :p

I think the general feeling is that Quinn will be a great ringleader as an upperclassmen, but the jury is still out on his effect as a freshman. Has he knee fully healed? Is he quick enough to do what he does at the HS level at the college level? And most importantly, is he quick enough/big enough to GUARD top flight college PGs effectively?

I think he'll be a great asset to the program over his four years - and yes, I'd expect him to stay four years given his height and lack of Lawson-level-quickness - but I'm not counting on him to be a difference maker next year. If he is, it's just gravy.

Kedsy
03-29-2011, 07:37 PM
I think most of the time we won't be playing with a traditional point guard. From what we've seen and read about him, Austin Rivers seems to require the ball in his hands an awful lot. With someone like that, we don't need a "pure" PG and Seth Curry will be a fine running mate. Assuming Kyrie leaves I expect Seth to start and play 30+ minutes.

The biggest jump is often freshman to sophomore, so I expect the Tyler Thornton we see next year will be a much better version of what we saw this year, and what we saw this year was surprisingly good. Still, I expect his most important attribute will be defense off the bench.

Quinn Cook is currently ranked 20th by RSCI. Obviously the ranking is not the be-all, end-all, but in general players with such a ranking don't start at Duke, and don't play starters minutes unless our upper classes are short of quality alternatives (like 2000. 2006, and 2007). I'm not overlooking him, but I don't expect a difference maker.

licc85
03-29-2011, 07:49 PM
I think most of the time we won't be playing with a traditional point guard. From what we've seen and read about him, Austin Rivers seems to require the ball in his hands an awful lot. With someone like that, we don't need a "pure" PG and Seth Curry will be a fine running mate. Assuming Kyrie leaves I expect Seth to start and play 30+ minutes.


I was actually thinking about this too . . what happens if Kyrie DOES stay? Does Austin learn how to play off the ball after playing his entire high school career basically being the lead guard? They are good friends, but does that always translate to on-court chemistry?

dukebluesincebirth
03-29-2011, 07:50 PM
I'm BIG on Quinn Cook. I've only seen him play a couple of times, but he looks to have this certain confidence on the court. His handles are solid, as he's very creative with the ball looking to assist more than score. He's quick on offense and defense. I have a strong feeling that Quinn Cook will be a very special player at Duke. I don't know if others are overlooking him as the thread suggests, but I'm not. No offense to Tyler Thornton, but I think Quinn takes his spot easily.

On the podcast from today with Jay Williams and Coach K, Jay asks Coach if it's fair to compare Cook/Rivers to Amaker/Dawkins, and Coach K seemed to accept that. Amaker is my favorite Duke player of all time, so I'm excited!

magjayran
03-29-2011, 07:53 PM
I'm hoping that he makes an appearance or two at the NC Pro Am. I like what I've seen from him in videos and some game action but I'd like to see him in person as well. I know that it's not the absolute best way to analyze talent but I learned a lot of things about our players and some of the UNC/NCSU guys from the Pro Am last year.

jv001
03-29-2011, 08:01 PM
Seth is more like Jon was in playing the point. He can take care of the ball and he does get in the lane where he can pass the ball. He is a good off the ball defender with very quick hands. So these attributes will get him starter minutes. The question will be who guards the opponents point guard in Coach K's man to man defense. Right now I have to say Tyler is the best one for that duty. Only time will tell. GoDuke!

Kedsy
03-29-2011, 08:05 PM
I was actually thinking about this too . . what happens if Kyrie DOES stay? Does Austin learn how to play off the ball after playing his entire high school career basically being the lead guard? They are good friends, but does that always translate to on-court chemistry?

My hope is that if Kyrie comes back then his and Austin's respect for one another and K's coaching will get them through this. I expect it in October practices it would look a little stilted, like Kyrie and Nolan during the NCAAT (although obviously we won't see those practices, other than the Blue/White game), but by the time the real games start it would look more like it did the first 8 games of this season. I hope so, anyway.

Devilsfan
03-29-2011, 08:10 PM
Jon was smarter than most all players I've seen. I think we'll be fine at the point (we always have great guards or develop players into great guards) but I hope someone works with the Plumlees in all categories or we may have another 30+ season and go out in the sweet sixteen again. This is not meant to knock the Plumlees but just to hope we develop them half as good as we do with our guards.

airowe
03-29-2011, 08:51 PM
I'm hoping that he makes an appearance or two at the NC Pro Am. I like what I've seen from him in videos and some game action but I'd like to see him in person as well. I know that it's not the absolute best way to analyze talent but I learned a lot of things about our players and some of the UNC/NCSU guys from the Pro Am last year.

I wonder how much the youngsters will play in those games with the trip to China/Dubai occurring just after. I'm sure they'll play some, but maybe not as much as they did last year. Somewhat like how the UNC players only played in a coupe games as they were headed to the Bahamas(?)

MulletMan
03-29-2011, 09:19 PM
you could be right. After watching freshman nolan smith become senior noaln smith, i've gotta believe that anything is possible, but Tyler just doesnt strike me as a floor general as of now. I want to see how Quinn does in the McD's AA game tonight. I think it will be a competitive game, and quinn will be looking to show off his skills.

Its funny because you say that Thornton doesn't strike you as a floor general after a year at the college level, but you're ready to make Cook the starting PG based on limited viewings of him in HS all-star games. Take a look at what TT did in high school. Kid is the consummate floor general and he knows how to win. Couple that with his "I'm gonna annoy the I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.ake out of you" defensive attitude and I think you might be looking at the next Duke PG.

To your original point, however, I do agree that Cook may be... may be... coming in a little underrated. But frankly, that would be nice in my opinion. He won't be coming in as an expected savior for anything and he won't be getting called the next this or that former great Duke player (usually based on height and race).

Kedsy
03-29-2011, 10:29 PM
Sorry, but I think Quinn is better than Tyler already. We shall see...

How often have you seen Quinn play?

Duvall
03-29-2011, 10:46 PM
How often have you seen Quinn play?

Let's be fair, though. When Cook and Thornton played in the same league, the people that did see them play thought Cook was the better player.

FireOgilvie
03-29-2011, 11:14 PM
Let's be fair, though. When Cook and Thornton played in the same league, the people that did see them play thought Cook was the better player.

True, but that was pre-knee injury. Quinn definitely looked like he lost a step this last season. It's impossible to know how much of his quickness he will get back, but I'd imagine he can get somewhat close to where he was.

As far as PT, I'm guessing they'll get about even minutes; but if I had to choose, I'd say Thornton would get more based on his experience and defense. Quinn's defense could be much better if he made it more of a focus.

magjayran
03-29-2011, 11:44 PM
I wonder how much the youngsters will play in those games with the trip to China/Dubai occurring just after. I'm sure they'll play some, but maybe not as much as they did last year. Somewhat like how the UNC players only played in a coupe games as they were headed to the Bahamas(?)

Good point, I had not thought about it. Last year I decided to claim that the UNC guys quit showing up just when they were about to face a bunch of Duke players. Scared to get embarrassed.

Duke: A Dynasty
03-30-2011, 12:54 AM
Is Cook being underrated by us? In short I would say no not at all. I think some here are the kids in preschool who have a new toy to play with and forget about what they already got until the new wears off.

Curry will start next year because he is most deserving and pairs up better with Rivers. That should be the end of that disscussion plain and simple there is no way we start two freshmen guards and possibly a freshmen in Daniels if we get him.

So this leaves who comes off the bench... Tyler or Cook?

I believe Tyler will deff be the first to get that chance while Cook sits in learns. I am in the camp that thinks Cook will be the better pg over Tyler at some point but this year the man is Tyler. I think after Cook gets a year of experience becomes the bonafied starter over Tyler.

sporthenry
03-30-2011, 02:32 AM
Every year it seems to be the same thing and I will admit I was guilty of it for the longest time but everyone always gets caught up in new potential that they fail to realize the gap between reality. Perusing some old posts

'I think Zoubek will probably play the same 10-15 minutes per game this year that he did last year. With the arrival of the more talented Mason Plumlee and assuming some development from the more athletic Miles Plumlee, there's going to be a minutes crunch in the post. So while I think he'll improve, I just don't see Zoubek having a big increase in minutes, as the talent competing with him for post minutes will improve too.'

Or on Josh
'I see him as playing primarily the 4 this year as a sub and getting 15 minutes a game. This kid will be a very solid player and should develop well this year.'

Every year we seem to get high on these guys mainly b/c we don't see their faults through their all star games or mix tapes and we see them playing against average high school players. Add in K obviously likes experience and defense and these guys have a lot of ground to make up. KI and AR are special talents but after you get past the top 10 or so recruits, you often have very sporadic success of these freshman. Kelly and Josh never saw the floor, Mason saw very limited action, Dre played b/c Duke had 3 guards for 3 spots. TT had limited success and only saw the floor b/c of KI but showed he was outclassed in the NC game. The last freshman to enjoy success at Duke not named KI seems to be EWill who was ranked 15th according to RSCI which is right about where Kelly and Mason were. Ewill was right behind Singleton and above Kemba and even he had some struggles after taking over the PG spot.

NSDukeFan
03-30-2011, 08:35 AM
IMO ... Kyrie is a game-changer. Compare the first 8 games to the rest. Kyrie's foot speed and ball speed enable him to penetrate better than anyone we've had since J Will. Forcing the defense to collapse on him - drawing defenders away from others (like Mason) - is why Frank Martin said we were unguardable. That type player doesn't come along very often.

QC should be pretty much everything you describe from what I've read. He should be a terrific pass-first point guard. But, he won't be a game changer. If Kyrie decides to stay one more year so he can wear a Duke uniform rather than work with a personal trainer for a year while he waits for the NBA to work out a new CBA, we will have one of the strongest backcourts ever. We will, again, be like the team K described: we will be able to go into any restaurant and order whatever we want without regard to price. Having only one senior won't matter as much. Our athleticism will overwhelm most opponents.

Without Kyrie, we'll have to be a little more price conscious. That takes nothing away from QC or any of the other players. In the 1990s, we had Hurley with his uncanny ability to see the court. In the 2000s, we had J Will with his Superman-like speed and upper body strength. The 2010s gave us Kyrie. Players like him don't come around that often.

But, K's taken his recruiting to a new level lately. We may not be the "jet" team, but we'll be very, very good for a long time to come.
Duke is going to be fine next year whether Kyrie stays or goes (same for Mason for that matter.) Duke will be very solid at point guard either way as the original poster has indicated with the various options as well as Rivers being able to handle the ball. But, there is a big difference between any of the team's point guard options and Kyrie. I agree Kyrie is a game changer and it may not be that people are underrating Cook as just realizing that nobody is going to live up to Kyrie. That does not mean that he and our other players won't do a very good job playing point guard next year for Duke.

I think most of the time we won't be playing with a traditional point guard. From what we've seen and read about him, Austin Rivers seems to require the ball in his hands an awful lot. With someone like that, we don't need a "pure" PG and Seth Curry will be a fine running mate. Assuming Kyrie leaves I expect Seth to start and play 30+ minutes.

The biggest jump is often freshman to sophomore, so I expect the Tyler Thornton we see next year will be a much better version of what we saw this year, and what we saw this year was surprisingly good. Still, I expect his most important attribute will be defense off the bench.

Quinn Cook is currently ranked 20th by RSCI. Obviously the ranking is not the be-all, end-all, but in general players with such a ranking don't start at Duke, and don't play starters minutes unless our upper classes are short of quality alternatives (like 2000. 2006, and 2007). I'm not overlooking him, but I don't expect a difference maker.
Well said. I agree.

I was actually thinking about this too . . what happens if Kyrie DOES stay? Does Austin learn how to play off the ball after playing his entire high school career basically being the lead guard? They are good friends, but does that always translate to on-court chemistry?
I don't expect Austin would have difficulty playing off the ball with Kyrie as they did it on the U-18 team last year and I think Austin probably came to Duke to play with better players and don't expect he believes he will have the ball as much as he did in high school, though I believe he will likely have the ball a lot and will be one of the team's highest usage players, if not the highest.

Let's be fair, though. When Cook and Thornton played in the same league, the people that did see them play thought Cook was the better player.
I don't disagree with your post, but as others have said Cook's injury may be a factor as well as Thornton having played college basketball for a year and played in Duke's system (especially defensively) for a year.

Every year it seems to be the same thing and I will admit I was guilty of it for the longest time but everyone always gets caught up in new potential that they fail to realize the gap between reality. Perusing some old posts

'I think Zoubek will probably play the same 10-15 minutes per game this year that he did last year. With the arrival of the more talented Mason Plumlee and assuming some development from the more athletic Miles Plumlee, there's going to be a minutes crunch in the post. So while I think he'll improve, I just don't see Zoubek having a big increase in minutes, as the talent competing with him for post minutes will improve too.'

Or on Josh
'I see him as playing primarily the 4 this year as a sub and getting 15 minutes a game. This kid will be a very solid player and should develop well this year.'

Every year we seem to get high on these guys mainly b/c we don't see their faults through their all star games or mix tapes and we see them playing against average high school players. Add in K obviously likes experience and defense and these guys have a lot of ground to make up. KI and AR are special talents but after you get past the top 10 or so recruits, you often have very sporadic success of these freshman. Kelly and Josh never saw the floor, Mason saw very limited action, Dre played b/c Duke had 3 guards for 3 spots. TT had limited success and only saw the floor b/c of KI but showed he was outclassed in the NC game. The last freshman to enjoy success at Duke not named KI seems to be EWill who was ranked 15th according to RSCI which is right about where Kelly and Mason were. Ewill was right behind Singleton and above Kemba and even he had some struggles after taking over the PG spot.

It certainly is exciting to look at the players with high potential that are coming into the program, but you make a great point that experienced players tend to play more. Players who were ranked around the 20s in recruiting circles who are now juniors (e.g. Mason, Ryan, Andre) are more likely to play big minutes than freshmen who are ranked in the 20s (e.g. Cook, Gbinijie, Daniels.) Experience in Duke's system matters. Obviously talents like Kyrie, Kyle, Rivers will play as soon as they get on campus.

Duke looks to have some great players to play the point guard position for the next several years.

MCFinARL
03-30-2011, 08:41 AM
There is a nice article on Cook in today's Washington Post. He'll be playing Thursday through Saturday in the National High School Invitational in DC (along with Austin Rivers). http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/high-schools/quinn-cook-returns-home-to-close-high-school-career-at-nhsi/2011/03/29/AF5wnlzB_story.html

The article notes that he is still working on rehabbing the knee; hopefully that continues to progress.

If the folks who believe we will go without a traditional point guard and start Seth and Austin (certainly a plausible scenario--Duke has lots of recent experience with non-tradional point guards) are right, then maybe we won't see Quinn on the court much next year. But he does seem like the kind of player who might get increasing time as Coach K works with midseason lineup changes.

adukeforduke
03-30-2011, 09:19 AM
Quinn Cook will be an excellent player for duke. TT is a nice role player but honestly I dont think he is good enough to play starters minutes for Duke. Ive seen Cook play a couple of times and I can tell you he is really really good. Plus I saw him when he was still not a 100% due to his knee injury. He has an excellent shot and surprisingly nice drive to the basket. Most importantly, he is one of the most self-confident players on the court I have ever seen. Assuming Kyrie leaves, the starting PG spot his most likely his. If this doesnt occur during his freshmen year, it will most certainly happen during his Sophomore year.

jv001
03-30-2011, 09:28 AM
Quinn Cook will be an excellent player for duke. TT is a nice role player but honestly I dont think he is good enough to play starters minutes for Duke. Ive seen Cook play a couple of times and I can tell you he is really really good. Plus I saw him when he was still not a 100% due to his knee injury. He has an excellent shot and surprisingly nice drive to the basket. Most importantly, he is one of the most self-confident players on the court I have ever seen. Assuming Kyrie leaves, the starting PG spot his most likely his. If this doesnt occur during his freshmen year, it will most certainly happen during his Sophomore year.

Since you've seen him play, how is his on the ball defense? Does he take plays off on defense? How well does he move his feet? My biggest worry next year is not offense, but how will our defense be? If we lose Mason, we lose a good shot blocker. Therefore we need to guard better on the perimeter. GoDuke!

gwlaw99
03-30-2011, 09:38 AM
I was actually thinking about this too . . what happens if Kyrie DOES stay? Does Austin learn how to play off the ball after playing his entire high school career basically being the lead guard? They are good friends, but does that always translate to on-court chemistry?

They played very well together on the FIBA under 18 team .

stillcrazie
03-30-2011, 09:44 AM
Quinn Cook will be an excellent player for duke. TT is a nice role player but honestly I dont think he is good enough to play starters minutes for Duke. Ive seen Cook play a couple of times and I can tell you he is really really good. Plus I saw him when he was still not a 100% due to his knee injury. He has an excellent shot and surprisingly nice drive to the basket. Most importantly, he is one of the most self-confident players on the court I have ever seen. Assuming Kyrie leaves, the starting PG spot his most likely his. If this doesnt occur during his freshmen year, it will most certainly happen during his Sophomore year.

My impression of Quinn is that he has a swagger that we could use, somewhat like the confidence of Smith, but with more of an attitude. He also seems well-liked by other players and this could bode well for team chemistry. I hope he surprises us and is able to make a substantial contribution next year.

adukeforduke
03-30-2011, 09:52 AM
i feel Cook's defense will help the team next year. His foot speed on d is fine. Also, his quickness is only going to improve as his knee rehab continues to progress. I dont feel like his ball pressure is as good as Kyrie's or nolan's but it is good enough to allow K to use his pressure defense. I also think he has quick hands that will allow him to steal the ball for a easy basketball occasionally.

adukeforduke
03-30-2011, 09:54 AM
My impression of Quinn is that he has a swagger that we could use, somewhat like the confidence of Smith, but with more of an attitude. He also seems well-liked by other players and this could bode well for team chemistry. I hope he surprises us and is able to make a substantial contribution next year.

I certainly agree with your statement. He is definitely going to the emotional leader on the team 3-4 years down the road.

COYS
03-30-2011, 10:04 AM
Also, his quickness is only going to improve as his knee rehab continues to progress.

As someone who had a meniscus tear in both knees during my basketball playing days (not that I was ever really that good), I wouldn't worry about Quinn's knee. He's going to be fine after an offseason of getting his leg strength back. I would imagine that any lingering effects from the injury are mostly due to his busy game schedule preventing him from doing concentrated strength work. Barring any strange setbacks, he will probably be at least as quick and explosive pre-injury by the time basketball starts up in the fall.

DevilYouthCoach
03-30-2011, 10:50 AM
Let's be fair, though. When Cook and Thornton played in the same league, the people that did see them play thought Cook was the better player.


I know I am biased because my son goes to DeMatha High School in DC where Quinn Cook played, but I watched Cook and Thornton play against one another several times, and Quinn always seemed the better player to me. He plays excellent defense, penetrates well off the dribble, and is a good scorer too. He was the go-to guy several times at the end of games. I have no idea how that will translate into college ball.

johnb
03-30-2011, 11:34 AM
I didn't know week to week who was going to start this past year, so my prognostication skills for 9 months from now are limited, but I think we do better when we have a floor general. NS became an absolute star as a de-facto PG, but I would still have preferred that we have a rock solid--if limited--PG who knew his role and allowed people like NS and SC (and everyone else on the team) to do what they do best. And, while it may be disrespectful to our best player, I was never convinced that NS made the other guys on the team better. Without him, we would obviously have lost some games, but several of our starters seemed to wake up when KI was on the floor, presumably because the passes were crisper, more timely, more accurate, something, than they were with NS.

And so for next year, I'd think the guys with point guard mentalities--TT and QC--would be much more likely to start alongside AR than SC (though SC still seems a likely starter at the 3 spot). And if KI is still around, everyone wins--including the guards with more bench time who get to practice against 2 future NBA All Stars.

mcdukie
03-30-2011, 12:14 PM
I think Quinn Cook will get substantial minutes next season. I have seen him and TT head up. I like both, but Cook does some things you just can't teach. He has a certain swagger on the court that will benefit us. I am not saying he will start initially but if KI leaves he has a good chance to start at some point for us. The article in the Washington Post today pointed out that he is still getting his knee issues straight. If he is healthy, he plays. Either way it sure is good to be a Duke fan. The stuff we "argue" over, other people wish they had these problems. I am looking forward to how the whole point guard thing plays out.

Kedsy
03-30-2011, 12:24 PM
And so for next year, I'd think the guys with point guard mentalities--TT and QC--would be much more likely to start alongside AR than SC (though SC still seems a likely starter at the 3 spot).

No offense intended, but the situations in which you think we "do better" and what is "much more likely" may be two very different things. Unless Kyrie returns, Austin is almost certainly going to play the Nolan role of having the ball in his hands most of the time. I doubt that having a PG in the lineup who won't get the ball all that much would be a priority over having another potent scorer (Seth starting) or putting our defense at a disadvantage (having Tyler or Quinn starting and putting Seth at the 3). I assume Quinn and Tyler will both get minutes (assuming Quinn is ready to play college defense, which nobody knows at this point), but I'd be very surprised if either of them start or play starters minutes.

Regarding your parenthetical, Seth is much too small to see significant time at the 3, although it is possible that he could play the 2 and Austin could slide to the 3. I think we'll have to see how capable Austin is of defending bigger SFs before we can make that call.

NSDukeFan
03-30-2011, 12:29 PM
No offense intended, but the situations in which you think we "do better" and what is "much more likely" may be two very different things. Unless Kyrie returns, Austin is almost certainly going to play the Nolan role of having the ball in his hands most of the time. I doubt that having a PG in the lineup who won't get the ball all that much would be a priority over having another potent scorer (Seth starting) or putting our defense at a disadvantage (having Tyler or Quinn starting and putting Seth at the 3). I assume Quinn and Tyler will both get minutes (assuming Quinn is ready to play college defense, which nobody knows at this point), but I'd be very surprised if either of them start or play starters minutes.

Regarding your parenthetical, Seth is much too small to see significant time at the 3, although it is possible that he could play the 2 and Austin could slide to the 3. I think we'll have to see how capable Austin is of defending bigger SFs before we can make that call.

I am hoping that Austin (and hopefully Gbinijie, and even more hopefully Daniels? and/or Hairston?) will be able to defend the 3 effectively, along with Andre. There is certainly the possibility (though far from proven at this point) that Duke could have a lot of versatile defenders the next few years.

jv001
03-30-2011, 03:25 PM
No offense intended, but the situations in which you think we "do better" and what is "much more likely" may be two very different things. Unless Kyrie returns, Austin is almost certainly going to play the Nolan role of having the ball in his hands most of the time. I doubt that having a PG in the lineup who won't get the ball all that much would be a priority over having another potent scorer (Seth starting) or putting our defense at a disadvantage (having Tyler or Quinn starting and putting Seth at the 3). I assume Quinn and Tyler will both get minutes (assuming Quinn is ready to play college defense, which nobody knows at this point), but I'd be very surprised if either of them start or play starters minutes.

Regarding your parenthetical, Seth is much too small to see significant time at the 3, although it is possible that he could play the 2 and Austin could slide to the 3. I think we'll have to see how capable Austin is of defending bigger SFs before we can make that call.

I firmly agree with this comment. Seth is not big enough or strong enough to play the 3. But he can play one of the guard positions. And it looks like Austin will have the ball in his hands a lot. We will need a 3rd scorer after Seth and Austin or we will need the scoring spread out more than we've seen in the past couple of years. I think we will see the latter and not the former. We have the guys to do that. The defense will be what separates us from the very good teams and the average teams. I put my trust in Coach K and the staff to get us to be a very good team. GoDuke!

DukieinSoCal
03-30-2011, 03:40 PM
Nice article up on espn comparing the current McD's recruits to NBA players, and Quinn is compared to Darren Collison. It's a nice comparison and hopefully, it turns out to be accurate. If it is, we're going to be in great shape at PG for the next 2-3 years. :cool:

licc85
03-30-2011, 04:00 PM
Nice article up on espn comparing the current McD's recruits to NBA players, and Quinn is compared to Darren Collison. It's a nice comparison and hopefully, it turns out to be accurate. If it is, we're going to be in great shape at PG for the next 2-3 years. :cool:

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/recruiting/basketball/mens/news/story?id=6273251

if any of you guys wanted to check it out, although i feel like a lot of these comparisons are really unfair to the kids as well as NBA players. Only a handful of these guys are going to be lottery picks, whereas just about all of the NBA players mentioned were lottery picks and most of them were all-stars at some point in their careers . . .

the PJ Hairston/Paul Pierce comparison is absolutely garbage, that made me laugh.

Duvall
03-30-2011, 11:05 PM
Lock this thread?

Duke: A Dynasty
03-31-2011, 03:11 AM
Ok I have chaned my mind a tad bit on how the pg situation will turn out.

At the begining of the year I think it will look like this:

Seth starts
Tyler off the bench
Cook gets just a few spot mins like Tyler did last year.

By ACC play I think more like this:

Seth still starts
Cook takes Tylers bench mins
Tyler will get about the same as last year in mins


Keep in mind we do not need a true pg next year with Austin on the court. Austin will be the primary ball handler so Curry would be the better fit to play with him. I think by ACC play Cook's overall skills will launch him over Tyler as the primary pg off the bench.

Saratoga2
03-31-2011, 06:53 AM
Ok I have chaned my mind a tad bit on how the pg situation will turn out.

At the begining of the year I think it will look like this:

Seth starts
Tyler off the bench
Cook gets just a few spot mins like Tyler did last year.

By ACC play I think more like this:

Seth still starts
Cook takes Tylers bench mins
Tyler will get about the same as last year in mins


Keep in mind we do not need a true pg next year with Austin on the court. Austin will be the primary ball handler so Curry would be the better fit to play with him. I think by ACC play Cook's overall skills will launch him over Tyler as the primary pg off the bench.

I think it is premature to think of starting roles until Kyrie makes his decision, DeAndre is still a possibility as well. We may even have a surprise early entry. There is also some question regarding Mason. The discussion of starting lineups will be more meaningful when the NBA entries are settled and when we learn who is committing to Duke.

The only real given starters will be Kyrie and Austin, if both are here.

BD80
03-31-2011, 07:37 AM
...

Regarding your parenthetical, Seth is much too small to see significant time at the 3, although it is possible that he could play the 2 and Austin could slide to the 3. I think we'll have to see how capable Austin is of defending bigger SFs before we can make that call.

I see Austin often playing the "3," which is to say that he will be the one of our three guards playing who defends the opponent's largest wing player. With the amount of switching we do, this isn't really such a big deal - and the key to our three guard defense is to pressure the ball - which will make it very difficult for the opposing team to move the ball effectively.

Even though we had three solid starting level bigs, a pre-season AA "3," and decent freshman 3/4, compared to just 3 starting level guards and a decent freshman guard (after Kyrie's injury) - we OFTEN slid Kyle to the 4 to play 3 guards. Coach K REALLY likes playing 3 guards.

Thus, I think we will see more of Quin than many expect. Seth is so valuable spotting up that I can see him being the third ball-handler, so even if you have Austin with the ball much of the time, I think Quin will be valuable part of the rotation.

COYS
03-31-2011, 07:56 AM
I see Austin often playing the "3," which is to say that he will be the one of our three guards playing who defends the opponent's largest wing player. With the amount of switching we do, this isn't really such a big deal - and the key to our three guard defense is to pressure the ball - which will make it very difficult for the opposing team to move the ball effectively.


I think one of the early season questions, and perhaps something that can go in the first "Phase" post will be team rebounding. Austin is super talented and has enough height to guard a large number of players at the 3. However, my only reservation with him playing most of his defensive minutes here would be rebounding. He is still relatively thin and it may be a bit of a challenge for him to compete with college 3's for boards.

I agree with you, overall, however that the three guard lineup may prove to be one of our best, especially if Cook/Thornton play better than Hairston/Gbinije . . . though of course we've got a long way to go before this is decided.

Kedsy
03-31-2011, 09:08 AM
I see Austin often playing the "3," which is to say that he will be the one of our three guards playing who defends the opponent's largest wing player. With the amount of switching we do, this isn't really such a big deal - and the key to our three guard defense is to pressure the ball - which will make it very difficult for the opposing team to move the ball effectively.

Even though we had three solid starting level bigs, a pre-season AA "3," and decent freshman 3/4, compared to just 3 starting level guards and a decent freshman guard (after Kyrie's injury) - we OFTEN slid Kyle to the 4 to play 3 guards. Coach K REALLY likes playing 3 guards.

Thus, I think we will see more of Quin than many expect. Seth is so valuable spotting up that I can see him being the third ball-handler, so even if you have Austin with the ball much of the time, I think Quin will be valuable part of the rotation.

I agree with you, although I expect the third guard in the three guard lineup will be Andre, more than Quinn or Tyler. And if it is Andre, he's probably better equipped to rebound, too.

davekay1971
03-31-2011, 09:12 AM
After getting my first look at Quinn last night, I was impressed. Assuming Kyrie goes pro (hey, Kyrie, that doesn't mean I WANT you to go pro...that number 1 jersey could use some more wear and tear!), we'll still have a very strong backcourt.

I see the year starting with Curry at the point and Austin at the 2, probably with Andre at the 3. Thornton may challenge Curry for the starting PG job, but Curry's defense really improved this year, and I think he fully understands that starter's minutes are earned on the defensive end at Duke. Watch for Curry to be an even better defender next year. Both Thornton and Quinn look very capable of earning big minutes in a strong 5 player perimeter rotation (make it 6 players if MG is also ready to contribute at the 3, which people more in the know than me seem to feel is the case).

Counting the two elder Plums and Ryan and Josh on the interior, with Marshall coming in and possibly ready to contribute, we'll be a young team, but very deep even without Kyrie. If Kyrie comes back we'll be ridiculously deep, talented, and athletic.

Is anybody NOT excited for next year at this point?

UrinalCake
03-31-2011, 09:30 AM
I think our "1" and "2" positions will be largely interchangeable. At any point in time we will have two of Rivers, Cook, Curry, and Thornton in the game (plus Kyrie with an asterisk). I see us being a running team again, as we were pre-Kyrie injury. Whoever rebounds the ball (or is closest to the rebounder, if it's a big man) will take the ball up the court while everybody else takes off. In the half court we may have a primary ball-handler but we do so much perimeter screening and passing that it won't matter too much who it is. It should be a fun offense to watch.

Scorp4me
03-31-2011, 10:45 AM
Assuming Kyrie leaves and let's assume that for the purpose of this thread, I think you can assume a few things. Rivers seems a perfect replacement for Nolan, good with the ball in his hands a great scorer. He's the top rated talent coming in and there is not reason to expect he doesn't start. I don't think anyone thinks he will be coming off the bench in the beginning or the entire year.

Seth started last year and I don't see anyone coming in who would knock him out of that position. Remember Seth is by now a...redshirt Juniors. Alot of experience and maturity.

Miles and Mason finished the year starting. Mason and Kelly began the year starting. Let's assume it's Miles and Mason starting to begin the year. Unless you think Kelly should be playing the 3 it doesn't matter, he could be starting and Miles could be coming off the bench. The point is those three will be manning the inside and I'm very comfortable with that. Hope they improve, but I don't see Hariston or MP3 taking those spots in the beginning.

The leaves one spot. My guess from the beginning is probably Dawkins as a third guard. I suppose it's possible that Cook or Thornton starts at the point, but I think it's less likely in the beginning. For long term success it's probably better if we get someone suited to play the 3...although unless Gbinije is ready from the get go I don't know who could really fill that role.

The point is I think we're really only questioning who gets the last spot. Maybe it's the 1 spot, maybe it's the 3 spot, but it's only one spot. Unless Kyrie comes back, but that's for another thread!

licc85
03-31-2011, 12:57 PM
going back to quinn for a sec, I thought he outplayed both of the highly regarded point guards on the west team last night, kabongo and teague. While there's no question both of those guys are better NBA prospects because of their size and athletic ability, quinn is also quite athletic, and he's finally coming back into form after that ACL injury (or was it MCL?) either way, I've always heard that ligament tears are 2 year injuries, meaning he was not playing to his full potential this year.

I, for one, think that Quinn came in to this game very underrated and under-ranked. I think he has the handles, the skills, and the basketball IQ and savvy to run the point at Duke next year. Just think, he has this spring and summer still to improve his game, and he was easily the most dominant point guard on the floor in the McD's AA game. He went 6-13 with 4 assists and just 1 turnover, while kabongo went 0-6 for 2 points, 5 assists and 5 TOs, Teague was 4-10, 9 points, 2 assists and 5 TOs.

dcar1985
03-31-2011, 01:03 PM
going back to quinn for a sec, I thought he outplayed both of the highly regarded point guards on the west team last night, kabongo and teague. While there's no question both of those guys are better NBA prospects because of their size and athletic ability, quinn is also quite athletic, and he's finally coming back into form after that ACL injury (or was it MCL?) either way, I've always heard that ligament tears are 2 year injuries, meaning he was not playing to his full potential this year.

I, for one, think that Quinn came in to this game very underrated and under-ranked. I think he has the handles, the skills, and the basketball IQ and savvy to run the point at Duke next year. Just think, he has this spring and summer still to improve his game, and he was easily the most dominant point guard on the floor in the McD's AA game. He went 6-13 with 4 assists and just 1 turnover, while kabongo went 0-6 for 2 points, 5 assists and 5 TOs, Teague was 4-10, 9 points, 2 assists and 5 TOs.

Dont quote me but im pretty sure it was just a MCL sprain, coulda been the ACL cant remember....but he definitely didn't tear either one nor did he require surgery thankfully.

sdotbarbee
03-31-2011, 01:03 PM
going back to quinn for a sec, I thought he outplayed both of the highly regarded point guards on the west team last night, kabongo and teague. While there's no question both of those guys are better NBA prospects because of their size and athletic ability, quinn is also quite athletic, and he's finally coming back into form after that ACL injury (or was it MCL?) either way, I've always heard that ligament tears are 2 year injuries, meaning he was not playing to his full potential this year.I, for one, think that Quinn came in to this game very underrated and under-ranked. I think he has the handles, the skills, and the basketball IQ and savvy to run the point at Duke next year. Just think, he has this spring and summer still to improve his game, and he was easily the most dominant point guard on the floor in the McD's AA game. He went 6-13 with 4 assists and just 1 turnover, while kabongo went 0-6 for 2 points, 5 assists and 5 TOs, Teague was 4-10, 9 points, 2 assists and 5 TOs.

I believe it was a meniscus tear not ligament damage. Quinn did have a very good game and he probably deserved a little more talk for MVP.

Duke: A Dynasty
03-31-2011, 07:28 PM
Quinn Cook is on tv right now playing against United Faith high school. EspnU

J4Kop99
03-31-2011, 07:30 PM
Quinn Cook is on tv right now playing against United Faith high school. EspnU

Do you know if it's on ESPN3?

Duke: A Dynasty
03-31-2011, 07:50 PM
Do you know if it's on ESPN3?

I have no idea sorry.

jimrowe0
03-31-2011, 07:55 PM
I have no idea sorry.

Its on ESPNU. Quinn having a great game so far with 15 points and 4 dimes by my count with 4 min left before halftime.

Greg_Newton
03-31-2011, 08:04 PM
Do you know if it's on ESPN3?

Yes, it's streaming on ESPN3.

moonpie23
03-31-2011, 08:07 PM
quinn just had an awesome thread-the-needle pass for an assist on the baseline.....he is looking VERY good...

Duke: A Dynasty
03-31-2011, 08:49 PM
Quinn Cook is dominating late. Now has 25 points late in the 4th

OZ
03-31-2011, 08:55 PM
Quinn Cook is dominating late. Now has 25 points late in the 4th

25 points on 10-18 shooting and an incredible floor game. I think the "overlooked" days are over, if indeed, they ever existed. This kid has the skills to make a great point guard before he leaves/graduates from Duke.

jimrowe0
03-31-2011, 08:56 PM
Quinn Cook is dominating late. Now has 25 points late in the 4th

This is the best game I have seen him play since he injured his knee. He has looked outstanding and finished with 25 pts and atleast 12 assists.

Duke: A Dynasty
03-31-2011, 08:58 PM
25 points on 10-18 shooting and an incredible floor game. I think the "overlooked" days are over, if indeed, they ever existed. This kid has the skills to make a great point guard before he leaves/graduates from Duke.

And 5-8 from 3! Yes I to think those so called overlooked days are gone. But I never understood it anyways. He was never overlooked here, just by recruiting services. Many on here and myself included think Cook will be a great dominant guard for Duke over the next 3 to 4 years.

roywhite
03-31-2011, 09:01 PM
This is the best game I have seen him play since he injured his knee. He has looked outstanding and finished with 25 pts and atleast 12 assists.

Saw a good portion of the second half. Really fine performance by Cook.

He seems to have more quickness and speed, probably as a result of his improvement since a knee injury. I can see Quinn as a very successful floor general for the Devils.

Gthoma2a
03-31-2011, 09:09 PM
I love the way Quinn says he would be fine backing up Kyrie for a year. I believe it, but even so, he could still get minutes. If that happened, and we get Deandre Daniels, we can play without fear of foul trouble. Wings: Austin, Hairston, Gbinije, Deandre, a little Ryan Kelly, and some Andre (if we don't play three guards with Seth). Guards: Austin, Quinn, Tyler, Andre, Kyrie, and Seth. Bigs: Mason, Miles, Marshall, Ryan, Hairston, and Deandre if he signs. We could run for days with that lineup. Nobody would have that kind of depth. It is pretty awesome to even think about. Quinn would be one of our top 4-5 guards right now, but he is AMAZING, and he could run our team like a pro as long as he keeps his head!

rotogod00
03-31-2011, 09:15 PM
@DaveTelep Quinn Cook must have gotten himself an NBA style nap. Hes the only burger game traveler with legs today. Oak hill rolls on

jipops
03-31-2011, 10:49 PM
I liked what I saw as well. He is clearly a vocal guy and I can see why the recruiting services mention him with the word leader. He seems to like to find the seams in the defense and beat it with the quick pass. Something I never saw the whole time watching him though was a simple two-handed chess pass. Everything was a quick baseball pass. His shot was going down though it does look like he has the tendency to fade away. Quinn still doesn't look like someone with blow-by quickness but he does get up and down the floor quickly.

I still think he is going to encounter a learning curve once he hits the ACC. The defenses are going to be much tougher and opposing guards much more physical. He is a nice long term prospect but I would caution having expectations of him contributing with major impact his first year.

RoyalBlue08
04-01-2011, 08:01 AM
The title to this thread makes me laugh. We as Duke fans don't ever overlook future players. We only overlook guys we already have on our roster. The grass is always greener in the high school kid's yard.

I hope this post makes someone laugh before it gets deleted.

Indoor66
04-01-2011, 08:22 AM
The title to this thread makes me laugh. We as Duke fans don't ever overlook future players. We only overlook guys we already have on our roster. The grass is always greener in the high school kid's yard.

I hope this post makes someone laugh before it gets deleted.

You make the point I have also raised, often. I get a laugh out of the group always looking for the incoming savior at X, Y, or Z position. It rarely, rarely ever happens.

SupaDave
04-01-2011, 09:18 AM
The title to this thread makes me laugh. We as Duke fans don't ever overlook future players. We only overlook guys we already have on our roster. The grass is always greener in the high school kid's yard.

I hope this post makes someone laugh before it gets deleted.

Ahhhh, you underestimate our ability to interpret sanity. :)

ACCBBallFan
04-01-2011, 01:47 PM
Assuming Kyrie leaves and let's assume that for the purpose of this thread, I think you can assume a few things. Rivers seems a perfect replacement for Nolan, good with the ball in his hands a great scorer. He's the top rated talent coming in and there is not reason to expect he doesn't start. I don't think anyone thinks he will be coming off the bench in the beginning or the entire year.

Seth started last year and I don't see anyone coming in who would knock him out of that position. Remember Seth is by now a...redshirt Juniors. Alot of experience and maturity.

Miles and Mason finished the year starting. Mason and Kelly began the year starting. Let's assume it's Miles and Mason starting to begin the year. Unless you think Kelly should be playing the 3 it doesn't matter, he could be starting and Miles could be coming off the bench. The point is those three will be manning the inside and I'm very comfortable with that. Hope they improve, but I don't see Hariston or MP3 taking those spots in the beginning.

The leaves one spot. My guess from the beginning is probably Dawkins as a third guard. I suppose it's possible that Cook or Thornton starts at the point, but I think it's less likely in the beginning. For long term success it's probably better if we get someone suited to play the 3...although unless Gbinije is ready from the get go I don't know who could really fill that role.

The point is I think we're really only questioning who gets the last spot. Maybe it's the 1 spot, maybe it's the 3 spot, but it's only one spot. Unless Kyrie comes back, but that's for another thread!

Austin can replace Nolan as far as the offensive end. Duke will miss both Kyle and Nolan on the defensive end, after never fully replacing Lance.

So who starts/finishes will be dependent on who plays the best defense.

If Ausitn plays SF on Defense with Seth/Dre at SG or Ausitn at SG/Dre at SF, Seth could get the nod over Quinn for his defensive acumen particularly on steals despite not being a true PG or ball handler. Tyler may initially sub over Quinn for his toughness on defense, though high fouls per minute. Quinn's and Tyler's ability to operate as a true PG is a plus and their scoring may not be needed with Austin and Seth/Dre.

I think Miles as a senior captain will get the nod over Ryan if Mason stays, and that Seth as a fourth year redshirt junior gets nod over Tyler or Quinn, since this team is short on upperclassmen. Another reason to not forget Dre who will be in his third year as will Mason and Ryan.

Quinn will be an invaluable practice player, much as Tyler was this year and may be next year. Mike Gbinije will play a Josh Hairston role his first year, and Josh should get a few minutes more than this year but has to wait one more year until two of the Plumlees move on. With no Kyle to play the 4 though, Josh's PT will increase somewhat.

jimrowe0
04-01-2011, 02:47 PM
Mike Gbinije will play a Josh Hairston role his first year, and Josh should get a few minutes more than this year but has to wait one more year until two of the Plumlees move on. With no Kyle to play the 4 though, Josh's PT will increase somewhat.

Unless we get DeAndre Daniels...

wilko
04-01-2011, 03:03 PM
I think hes still taller than me.... so I can't say I'd honestly overlook him.... or is that look over.. either way..

licc85
04-01-2011, 05:21 PM
The title to this thread makes me laugh. We as Duke fans don't ever overlook future players. We only overlook guys we already have on our roster. The grass is always greener in the high school kid's yard.

I hope this post makes someone laugh before it gets deleted.
Are you kidding me??? We underrate players coming in all the time. Who the heck knew Nolan Smith was going to be a 1st team AA? If you are saying you knew how good he was coming in, then you should just go ahead and join the team as a talent scout right now.

Pretty sure you completely misunderstood the tone of the thread. I was the one talking Quinn up . . . because in other threads such as the "Next year" thread, people were saying there was no way he would start at PG and they don't see him contributing his freshman year. Why don't you actually read the original post before you bash my thread?

by the way, do you guys not understand the definition of the word "overlook?" overlooked = underrated, which he definitely was prior to this week

in any case, if Kyrie leaves, I'm confident Quinn is the starting PG by the time the ACC schedule rolls around.

Greg_Newton
04-01-2011, 05:38 PM
. . . I was the one talking him up . . . because in other threads such as the "Next year" thread, people were saying there was no way he would start at PG and they don't see him contributing his freshman year. Why don't you actually read the original post before you bash my thread?

by the way, do you guys not understand the definition of the word "overlook?" overlooked = underrated, which he definitely was prior to this week

in any case, if Kyrie leaves, I'm confident Quinn is the starting PG by the time the ACC schedule rolls around.

Maybe... maybe not.

Quinn is really good at playing basketball. He's got every skill and instinct you want in a PG, and he's just a flat out baller.

However... pretty much everything he does at the HS level is predicated on his ability to consistently a) get a step on his defender off the dribble, and b) stay in front of the opposing PG. The big question is will he be able to do those two things reliably against elite college PGs? I mean he has really short legs - even for his height - which might make it hard to move laterally fast enough to keep up with a speedster PG in a spaced out offense.

IMO, he'll have a little more trouble with this than some might expect as a freshman. I expect him to figure it out in time to be a very good player by his soph/junior year, though.

licc85
04-01-2011, 05:43 PM
Maybe... maybe not.

Quinn is really good at playing basketball. He's got every skill and instinct you want in a PG, and he's just a flat out baller.

However... pretty much everything he does at the HS level is predicated on his ability to consistently a) get a step on his defender off the dribble, and b) stay in front of the opposing PG. The big question is will he be able to do those two things reliably against elite college PGs? I mean he has really short legs - even for his height - which might make it hard to move laterally fast enough to keep up with a speedster PG in a spaced out offense.

IMO, he'll have a little more trouble with this than some might expect as a freshman. I expect him to figure it out in time to be a very good player by his soph/junior year, though.

well, you do bring up some good points, but to be honest, we only need a game manager from the PG position this year. Austin is our go-to-guy. I think Quinn is an excellent defender. He is definitely quick enough to keep up with most guards, and he has quick hands. As long as he handles the ball well, limits his turnovers, hit open shots, and gets everyone else involved, he's going to be fine as our starter at PG. It may depend more on how much Seth improves his game this summer, because I don't think we can afford to have 2 guys under 6'2" starting.

Both he and Seth are very similar players, but Quinn is much quicker and can create offense for himself and others, while Seth is currently not much more than a spot up shooter who can occasionally get into the lane using a nice dribble move or fake. I won't discount his 3-year tenure as a college player though, he's also very smart, so it will be a close battle for that starting spot.

licc85
04-01-2011, 05:50 PM
Unless we get DeAndre Daniels...

not sure why everyone thinks Daniels will be better than Gbinijie. MG should see more minutes than JH did this year imo. His game is very polished for a HS senior.

Greg_Newton
04-01-2011, 06:00 PM
well, you do bring up some good points, but to be honest, we only need a game manager from the PG position this year. Austin is our go-to-guy. I think Quinn is an excellent defender. He is definitely quick enough to keep up with most guards, and he has quick hands. As long as he handles the ball well, limits his turnovers, hit open shots, and gets everyone else involved, he's going to be fine as our starter at PG. It may depend more on how much Seth improves his game this summer, because I don't think we can afford to have 2 guys under 6'2" starting.

Both he and Seth are very similar players, but Quinn is much quicker and can create offense for himself and others, while Seth is currently not much more than a spot up shooter who can occasionally get into the lane using a nice dribble move or fake. I won't discount his 3-year tenure as a college player though, he's also very smart, so it will be a close battle for that starting spot.

I would add defense to that list, and probably put it first on the list. From the couple games I've seen, I haven't been overly impressed with his ability to keep PGs out of the lane, although that is certain to improve under K. I do think he'll probably be fine on the offensive end even if he can't break down his defender one-on-one, because he looks to be very effective off the pick and roll. I just think the quickness issue is kind of a tipping point - if he IS quick enough to do the things he does now at the next level, he'll be great. If not, he'll be pretty limited until he improves that. Fingers crossed.

Honestly, I'd be surprised if he cracked the starting backcourt of Austin-Seth-Dre. Seth and Dre will be juniors, and I expect them to be very good on both sides of the ball. And I kind of expect a J-Will-Duhon setup between Austin and Seth - Austin is probably the primary ballhandler, but Curry can take over duties whenever needed and set up his teammates even when playing off the ball.

But we'll see, we've got a lot of promising young guards with their own unique skillsets. Should be fun.

Gthoma2a
04-01-2011, 06:37 PM
not sure why everyone thinks Daniels will be better than Gbinijie. MG should see more minutes than JH did this year imo. His game is very polished for a HS senior.

Totally agree, but I'd like to have Daniels as a nice security blanket (depth, and another athletic wing to run). Gbinije does everything well, and is a player that doesn't demand the ball constantly to be effective. That is going to be a huge thing for us this year. Austin, Quinn, and Seth will have the ball consistently, so we need a guy who has a history of quiet looking games with great stats (he has a history of that). This is not to mention that Hairston is more of an undersized 4, but Gbinije is not a 4 at all, but a solid 3.

On a relevant topic to this thread, I have seen a few articles that seem to indicate Kyrie is leaning towards the draft. I don't know anything other than what I was reading, but if that happens, I think Quinn still has us in good hands. I'd love to have him and Kyrie, though (the more capable floor generals you have, the better from the standpoint of injuries and fouls).

NSDukeFan
04-01-2011, 06:58 PM
Are you kidding me??? We underrate players coming in all the time. Who the heck knew Nolan Smith was going to be a 1st team AA? If you are saying you knew how good he was coming in, then you should just go ahead and join the team as a talent scout right now.

Pretty sure you completely misunderstood the tone of the thread. I was the one talking Quinn up . . . because in other threads such as the "Next year" thread, people were saying there was no way he would start at PG and they don't see him contributing his freshman year. Why don't you actually read the original post before you bash my thread?

by the way, do you guys not understand the definition of the word "overlook?" overlooked = underrated, which he definitely was prior to this week

in any case, if Kyrie leaves, I'm confident Quinn is the starting PG by the time the ACC schedule rolls around.

I've got to agree with RoyalBlue on this one. Nolan Smith was not a first team AA as a freshman, which is what Quinn Cook will be next year. I have no doubt that Quinn will be a very good player for Duke over the course of his career, but I am not sure that he will be great right away, just like Nolan wasn't. I believe what RoyalBlue was saying when you slammed him/her is that many posters (and I would certainly put you in this category right now) get very excited about newcomers, while potentially overlooking the very good student athletes at Duke who just helped the team to a 32-5 record. I tend to the conservative side and think that the players who have proven themselves at the college level tend to have an advantage over those that have shown themselves to be superlative at a lower level of competition. I certainly hope that you are right, because that would mean that Cook quickly grasped Duke's team defense and would be getting playing time over a very good junior player in Seth or Andre, both of whom I expect will continue to improve over the summer and next year.

licc85
04-01-2011, 07:04 PM
I've got to agree with RoyalBlue on this one. Nolan Smith was not a first team AA as a freshman, which is what Quinn Cook will be next year. I have no doubt that Quinn will be a very good player for Duke over the course of his career, but I am not sure that he will be great right away, just like Nolan wasn't. I believe what RoyalBlue was saying when you slammed him/her is that many posters (and I would certainly put you in this category right now) get very excited about newcomers, while potentially overlooking the very good student athletes at Duke who just helped the team to a 32-5 record. I tend to the conservative side and think that the players who have proven themselves at the college level tend to have an advantage over those that have shown themselves to be superlative at a lower level of competition. I certainly hope that you are right, because that would mean that Cook quickly grasped Duke's team defense and would be getting playing time over a very good junior player in Seth or Andre, both of whom I expect will continue to improve over the summer and next year.

so . . i guess we should just all agree about every player there is and never post any threads on anything worth discussing.

I was posting this thread initially because people were saying on other threads that Quinn would be behind even TT on the bench, which I don't think will happen.

I'll admit at least that I might be underestimating Dre's ability to improve his defense over the offseason, but I'm not going to count on it. After all, Mason and Miles' defense looked basically the same at the end of this year as it did last year. Sure, both of them can challenge people at the rim and make athletic plays, but they are still often out of position and still occasionally commit silly fouls. Dre's defense picked up a bit toward the end of the year, but he's no Nolan Smith.

I still think Quinn is way better than you guys are giving him credit for, but only time will tell for sure.

NSDukeFan
04-01-2011, 07:16 PM
so . . i guess we should just all agree about every player there is and never post any threads on anything worth discussing.

I was posting this thread initially because people were saying on other threads that Quinn would be behind even TT on the bench, which I don't think will happen.

I still think Quinn is way better than you guys are giving him credit for, but only time will tell for sure.

I don't think I said anywhere in my post that we should agree about every player and not post any threads. I am enjoying the thread, actually. That's why I stated my opinion that I agreed with what RoyalBlue was saying and gave my reasons for it. Is it ok if I have an opinion different than yours on your thread?

You may very well be right that Quinn may play more than Thornton next year. I certainly think he has the potential to be a better scorer right off the bat and hopefully will be able to create some opportunities for others at this level. However, since Quinn has not played a minute of college basketball yet, I don't know yet how he will fare defensively, which is usually quite important for coach K and Duke.

Quinn may be better than I and others may be giving him credit for, but I think the jump from high school to the schedule that Duke plays is significant and sometimes people get excited about newcomers and forget that the team has some very good returning players who typically get better over their careers (as I am sure Quinn will, and I am very much looking forward to seeing him play.)

Kedsy
04-01-2011, 08:49 PM
Here's the thing about freshman starting at Duke. Putting aside 2006-07, when we were forced to start a couple freshmen (Jon and Lance) because we only had three returning players who had played as many as 185 career minutes, here are the only freshmen to start more than half of Duke's games in the past 15 years:

Kyle Singler, 2007-08 (#5 prospect according to RSCI)
Josh McRoberts, 2005-06 (#1)
Greg Paulus, 2005-06 (#13)
Luol Deng, 2003-04 (#2)
JJ Redick, 2002-03 (#11)
Shelden Williams, 2002-03 (#8)
Jason Williams, 1999-2000 (#3)
Carlos Boozer, 1999-2000 (#8)
Elton Brand, 1997-98 (#1 or #2; there was no RSCI back then)

Note that 1999-2000 was like 2006-07 in that we only had three returning players with more than 100 minutes of playing experience. But putting that aside, in the past 15 years we have only had two freshmen start who were not one of the top 8 recruits in the country, and those two were both top 13.

Quinn Cook is currently rated 20th in the RSCI, and while that doesn't end the argument, I'd say it's a pretty strong predictor that he won't start, especially since Austin Rivers (#3 RSCI) will start and we have only had two freshman start more than half our games four times since 1984 (those would be 1999-2000 & 2006-07, as discussed above, plus 2002-03 and 2005-06).

To a few of your detail points:


I'll admit at least that I might be underestimating Dre's ability to improve his defense over the offseason, but I'm not going to count on it. After all, Mason and Miles' defense looked basically the same at the end of this year as it did last year.

I don't know what you were watching, but in my opinion this is just plain wrong. Miles's and Mason's defense is worlds better at the end of this season than it was in 2009-10. It's not even close enough to be debatable.


Dre's defense picked up a bit toward the end of the year, but he's no Nolan Smith.

Is Quinn Cook any more of a Nolan Smith than Andre?


I still think Quinn is way better than you guys are giving him credit for, but only time will tell for sure.

Just out of curiosity, how many non-All Star games have you actually seen Quinn play in?

Newton_14
04-01-2011, 09:26 PM
Here's the thing about freshman starting at Duke. Putting aside 2006-07, when we were forced to start a couple freshmen (Jon and Lance) because we only had three returning players who had played as many as 185 career minutes, here are the only freshmen to start more than half of Duke's games in the past 15 years:

Kyle Singler, 2007-08 (#5 prospect according to RSCI)
Josh McRoberts, 2005-06 (#1)
Greg Paulus, 2005-06 (#13)
Luol Deng, 2003-04 (#2)
JJ Redick, 2002-03 (#11)
Shelden Williams, 2002-03 (#8)
Jason Williams, 1999-2000 (#3)
Carlos Boozer, 1999-2000 (#8)
Elton Brand, 1997-98 (#1 or #2; there was no RSCI back then)

Note that 1999-2000 was like 2006-07 in that we only had three returning players with more than 100 minutes of playing experience. But putting that aside, in the past 15 years we have only had two freshmen start who were not one of the top 8 recruits in the country, and those two were both top 13.

Quinn Cook is currently rated 20th in the RSCI, and while that doesn't end the argument, I'd say it's a pretty strong predictor that he won't start, especially since Austin Rivers (#3 RSCI) will start and we have only had two freshman start more than half our games four times since 1984 (those would be 1999-2000 & 2006-07, as discussed above, plus 2002-03 and 2005-06).

To a few of your detail points:



I don't know what you were watching, but in my opinion this is just plain wrong. Miles's and Mason's defense is worlds better at the end of this season than it was in 2009-10. It's not even close enough to be debatable.



Is Quinn Cook any more of a Nolan Smith than Andre?


You hinted at this point in a round about way, but to further point, the 4 guys I bolded only started due to NBA defections. Even J-Will, as good as he was, would not have started had Avery, and Maggette returned, and Carlos would not have started had Brand returned. JJ would not have started had Dunleavy, and J-Will had returned, and Shelden would not have started had Carlos returned.

It is extremely difficult to start at Duke as a Freshman. If Kyrie returns then obviously Cook will not start, but even if Kyrie goes, it will be a longshot for Cook to start given the returning talent plus Austin Rivers.

Also agree on your other points about the defense of the returning players. Learning Duke's Defensive System is very difficult. Just not an easy thing to pick up, and on ball defense (which most tend to focus on) is actually just a small part of the system. Learning when and where to help, when and when not to switch, where to be on in-bounds defense, etc is very difficult for freshmen to grasp.

gumbomoop
04-01-2011, 09:31 PM
Getting harder and harder to overlook Quin Cook. He scored 29 today in the ESPN/Rise HS Invitational. Catch him tomorrow aft at 2 on ESPN in the final v. Montrose Christian. Then you can click over to CBS for 2 hours of NCAA Final 4 pregame jabber.

Unless you're boycotting.

licc85
04-01-2011, 09:32 PM
Here's the thing about freshman starting at Duke. Putting aside 2006-07, when we were forced to start a couple freshmen (Jon and Lance) because we only had three returning players who had played as many as 185 career minutes, here are the only freshmen to start more than half of Duke's games in the past 15 years:

Kyle Singler, 2007-08 (#5 prospect according to RSCI)
Josh McRoberts, 2005-06 (#1)
Greg Paulus, 2005-06 (#13)
Luol Deng, 2003-04 (#2)
JJ Redick, 2002-03 (#11)
Shelden Williams, 2002-03 (#8)
Jason Williams, 1999-2000 (#3)
Carlos Boozer, 1999-2000 (#8)
Elton Brand, 1997-98 (#1 or #2; there was no RSCI back then)

Note that 1999-2000 was like 2006-07 in that we only had three returning players with more than 100 minutes of playing experience. But putting that aside, in the past 15 years we have only had two freshmen start who were not one of the top 8 recruits in the country, and those two were both top 13.

Quinn Cook is currently rated 20th in the RSCI, and while that doesn't end the argument, I'd say it's a pretty strong predictor that he won't start, especially since Austin Rivers (#3 RSCI) will start and we have only had two freshman start more than half our games four times since 1984 (those would be 1999-2000 & 2006-07, as discussed above, plus 2002-03 and 2005-06).

ok, but i still think he's good enough to start. We have a young team next year.



I don't know what you were watching, but in my opinion this is just plain wrong. Miles's and Mason's defense is worlds better at the end of this season than it was in 2009-10. It's not even close enough to be debatable.

gonna have to agree to disagree here. Dunno what you're watching. Mason and Miles still make the same mistakes on defense that they always have. Look, they are excellent, athletic big men, and many teams would kill to have them, but these guys don't have the basketball IQ of other guys on our team. I'm not saying they havent improved at all, although Miles has been up and down his entire career. Both of them have had great games but neither one of them does it consistently. I don't know if its lack of confidence, or what, but they should really be dominating games by now, and they just don't do that. (Although their growth may have been stunted by the lack of a true point guard at any point in either of their careers to this point other than 11 games with Kyrie)



Is Quinn Cook any more of a Nolan Smith than Andre?

absolutely, quinn is a very good on the ball defender, with the potential to be just as good as Nolan was guarding the ball. He plays extremely hard every play.



Just out of curiosity, how many non-All Star games have you actually seen Quinn play in?

probably just as many as you've seen, he's only been in a few events, but I have been following him since we began recruiting him, and I know what he's capable of when he's not being hampered by his knee.

by the way, when i said he would start when the ACC schedule rolls around, I didn't neccessarily mean he'd start over half our games, I just meant that eventually, I believe he would find his way into the starting lineup some time during ACC play, and stay there, I'm talking about an elliot williams kind of situation. Quinn obviously needs to learn the system, and that will take time and experience. Don't forget, he is really the only TRUE point guard on the team. I would consider Seth a combo guard and Tyler a defense-oriented guard, and Austin is obviously a 2. All 4 can bring the ball up the court, but quinn is the prototypical guy you want running your offense. Austin as our main ball handler scares me, just look at how many "jimmer" threes he jacks up. He needs to play off the ball.

OZ
04-01-2011, 09:46 PM
Quinn's team won their semi-final game with Dwyer this evening 76-73. Quinn was high scorer with 29 points (11-12 free throws). They will play for championship tomorrow.

Kedsy
04-01-2011, 09:47 PM
absolutely, quinn is a very good on the ball defender, with the potential to be just as good as Nolan was guarding the ball. He plays extremely hard every play.

The potential may be there, but I was talking about a freshman Quinn, a senior Nolan, and a junior Andre. I would be very (pleasantly) surprised if Quinn as a freshman can play defense anywhere near a Nolan level.

Not that I think Andre can play Nolan-like defense, either, but he appears to have finally grasped the system. Obviously we're all guessing, but my guess is next season Andre will be better at playing wing defense in Duke's system than Quinn will be at playing PG defense in Duke's system.

licc85
04-01-2011, 09:51 PM
Andre will be better at playing wing defense in Duke's system than Quinn will be at playing PG defense in Duke's system.

Hey, I completely agree with this statement. But the fact is, we have a bunch of talented wings players. Quinn is the team's 1 true point guard if Kyrie leaves.

oh . . and he's WAY better than 3 and 1/2 year starter Greg Paulus.

Kedsy
04-01-2011, 09:52 PM
ok, but i still think he's good enough to start. We have a young team next year.

Actually, assuming Mason comes back we'll be a tad older than this past season. At the start of the 2010-11 season, our 7 returning players had a total of 12 years of experience (counting Seth with 1). At the start of 2011-12, our 7 returning players (including Mason) will have 13 years of experience (counting Seth as 2).

Kedsy
04-01-2011, 09:56 PM
Hey, I completely agree with this statement. But the fact is, we have a bunch of talented wings players. Quinn is the team's 1 true point guard if Kyrie leaves.

I hear you, but not from a defensive standpoint. Next season, Quinn will most likely be our third best at defending our opponent's PG. Which is a main reason why I don't think he'll start.

Also, from what I've heard about Tyler's high school career and from what little I've seen of him at Duke, I think you're underselling Tyler. He doesn't have the quickest first step in the world, but I think he's certainly a "true point guard."


oh . . and he's WAY better than 3 and 1/2 year starter Greg Paulus.

Possibly, but I doubt Greg Paulus would start on next year's team, either.

Gthoma2a
04-01-2011, 10:12 PM
Actually, assuming Mason comes back we'll be a tad older than this past season. At the start of the 2010-11 season, our 7 returning players had a total of 12 years of experience (counting Seth with 1). At the start of 2011-12, our 7 returning players (including Mason) will have 13 years of experience (counting Seth as 2).

There is potential for 5 freshman. We have lost two senior champs (experience counts more than the year), but there is something that I don't get. Hairston and Thornton are going to be virtual freshmen after they didn't play their first season. Thornton could be our only natural 1 coming back. Seth is a natural 2 (Nolan dominated the ball control with great success, and for that reason, he played point most of this year), and Quinn is a natural 1. We will have to see if Seth plays a 1 to Austin's 2 as well as, a natural 1, Quinn does. I am not saying who will do best or get the spot, but it is a little weird to say for sure that a guy who plays nothing but the 1 will be beat by a combo for that spot, no matter how talented (he is highly talented, and may very well do it, but I will leave it to K to decide).

Also, Gbinije could very well play. We have a 6'4 guy who is really a sophomore in Dawkins (he was a young freshman who went through a rough freshman year, and he improved, but didn't star for us last year). I love Andre, but he has got to work on his handle and his defense. If he does those things, he could start in some games, but he is a natural 2 (think about him guarding a big 6'8 guy, like Harrison Barnes this year; he would be pretty easy to shoot over). I think he will be a 2 guard this season behind Austin, and potentially Seth (unless he proves me wrong, I'd love that; Andre is a favorite). Gbinije plays the position 24/7, and is extremely well rounded. He is a quiet player who doesn't need the ball to get hot due to his ability to drive for a layup to keep the basket big enough to avoid staying cold for a full game. Andre still needs to work on his handle so that he can do that on nights when the shot isn't falling to reach his extremely high potential on offense. The same can be said about his defense, but I don't know that putting him against guys who have a lot more size will help that.

Overall, K knows all, but we shouldn't be counting any of these guys out. If they couldn't be a viable option, why would we recruit them? And why were other teams after them if they didn't have it in them?

Duke: A Dynasty
04-02-2011, 02:44 AM
not sure why everyone thinks Daniels will be better than Gbinijie. MG should see more minutes than JH did this year imo. His game is very polished for a HS senior.

http://newsok.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=2&pr_key=83314

We do not know if he will be better long term but as of right now its general belief that DD is the better SF. Daniels is rated as a top 10 player (3rd SF overall). Top 10!!! A previous poster above already showed top guys we have gotten before that have started right away as freshmen and they were also top 10. MG is rated around the 20's

Duke: A Dynasty
04-02-2011, 03:05 AM
well, you do bring up some good points, but to be honest, we only need a game manager from the PG position this year. Austin is our go-to-guy. I think Quinn is an excellent defender. He is definitely quick enough to keep up with most guards, and he has quick hands. As long as he handles the ball well, limits his turnovers, hit open shots, and gets everyone else involved, he's going to be fine as our starter at PG. It may depend more on how much Seth improves his game this summer, because I don't think we can afford to have 2 guys under 6'2" starting.
Both he and Seth are very similar players, but Quinn is much quicker and can create offense for himself and others, while Seth is currently not much more than a spot up shooter who can occasionally get into the lane using a nice dribble move or fake. I won't discount his 3-year tenure as a college player though, he's also very smart, so it will be a close battle for that starting spot.

Ok a game manager at pg? I was thinking Seth already did that. Seth rarely turn the ball over and make good decisions with it.

Austin is our go to guy next year. Yes we all seem to agree on this which is exactly why Seth makes more sense at pg. Rivers will be the one creating like a pg and scoring too. When Rivers draws the double and kicks out who would you rather have out there to shoot the 3? Seth our current best 3pt shooter or an unproven freshmen whose strength is not 3's.

Cook appears quick enough to keep up with most guards. Well he has not played a single college game so we do not know if he is quick enough to keep up with most college guards (Although I think he will be) but Seth on the other hand we know is quick enough to keep up with most guards.

He has quick hands. Once again he is going against hs competition so we do not know if his hand speed translates. Have you watched Seth play? He was our leader in steals per game.

You said as long as he handles the ball well, limites to's, hits open shots and gets others involved. Uhh that is an odd statement. I would be great Duke pg if all I did was that (not asking much are you?). I believe Seth did all those things last year anyway.

It may depend on how much Seth has improved over the summer. Well yes same goes for every position on the court. Every player usually gets better after a year of experience and I think Seth will be no different.

I dont think we can afford to have two players 6'2" or under starting. I just do not understand this one. Rivers is 6'4" or taller, whoever plays SF will be at minimum 6'4", then we got Mason, Miles and Kelly (all 6'10" or better). So only one guy would be 6'2" or shorter and that is the pg.

licc85
04-02-2011, 03:52 AM
Ok a game manager at pg? I was thinking Seth already did that. Seth rarely turn the ball over and make good decisions with it.

Austin is our go to guy next year. Yes we all seem to agree on this which is exactly why Seth makes more sense at pg. Rivers will be the one creating like a pg and scoring too. When Rivers draws the double and kicks out who would you rather have out there to shoot the 3? Seth our current best 3pt shooter or an unproven freshmen whose strength is not 3's.

Cook appears quick enough to keep up with most guards. Well he has not played a single college game so we do not know if he is quick enough to keep up with most college guards (Although I think he will be) but Seth on the other hand we know is quick enough to keep up with most guards.

He has quick hands. Once again he is going against hs competition so we do not know if his hand speed translates. Have you watched Seth play? He was our leader in steals per game.

You said as long as he handles the ball well, limites to's, hits open shots and gets others involved. Uhh that is an odd statement. I would be great Duke pg if all I did was that (not asking much are you?). I believe Seth did all those things last year anyway.

It may depend on how much Seth has improved over the summer. Well yes same goes for every position on the court. Every player usually gets better after a year of experience and I think Seth will be no different.

I dont think we can afford to have two players 6'2" or under starting. I just do not understand this one. Rivers is 6'4" or taller, whoever plays SF will be at minimum 6'4", then we got Mason, Miles and Kelly (all 6'10" or better). So only one guy would be 6'2" or shorter and that is the pg.

sigh . . i'm getting really tired of arguing about this, all of your arguments have already been brought up at least twice. But I'll go on one last rant, seth is NOT a point guard, can we just accept that? He's a good player, but he's not a point guard, he's just not. Neither is Austin. With A Seth/Austin Backcourt, we're back to the same thing as the Nolan/Seth offense, except Austin isn't quite as good as Nolan until we are pretty well into the season, and he gets some game experience. So we go back to running a bunch of screens and hoping someone gets open, and occasionally Nolan (Austin) makes a great move and scores. The Plumlees don't get as involved and there's not as much of a transition game because there are only 1.5 good ball handlers on the court. Meanwhile, Seth can't run to the 3 point line in transition because he has to handle the ball. Plus, you are overrating Austin's court vision (he's a scorer, not a set up guy) and Seth's quickness. He is quick enough to guard most guards, yes, but quinn is alot quicker, and for the 50th time, he can create offense for himself and others because he actually has a game driving to the basket, and is capable of finishing or dishing it in traffic.

But seriously, I'm not changing anyone's mind anyways, and I just don't care anymore, but that's my opinion.

but don't think I'm not digging up this thread when Quinn is the starting PG sometime in february

burns15
04-02-2011, 04:06 AM
ok, but i still think he's good enough to start. We have a young team next year.



gonna have to agree to disagree here. Dunno what you're watching. Mason and Miles still make the same mistakes on defense that they always have. Look, they are excellent, athletic big men, and many teams would kill to have them, but these guys don't have the basketball IQ of other guys on our team. I'm not saying they havent improved at all, although Miles has been up and down his entire career. Both of them have had great games but neither one of them does it consistently. I don't know if its lack of confidence, or what, but they should really be dominating games by now, and they just don't do that. (Although their growth may have been stunted by the lack of a true point guard at any point in either of their careers to this point other than 11 games with Kyrie)



absolutely, quinn is a very good on the ball defender, with the potential to be just as good as Nolan was guarding the ball. He plays extremely hard every play.



probably just as many as you've seen, he's only been in a few events, but I have been following him since we began recruiting him, and I know what he's capable of when he's not being hampered by his knee.

by the way, when i said he would start when the ACC schedule rolls around, I didn't neccessarily mean he'd start over half our games, I just meant that eventually, I believe he would find his way into the starting lineup some time during ACC play, and stay there, I'm talking about an elliot williams kind of situation. Quinn obviously needs to learn the system, and that will take time and experience. Don't forget, he is really the only TRUE point guard on the team. I would consider Seth a combo guard and Tyler a defense-oriented guard, and Austin is obviously a 2. All 4 can bring the ball up the court, but quinn is the prototypical guy you want running your offense. Austin as our main ball handler scares me, just look at how many "jimmer" threes he jacks up. He needs to play off the ball.

How do you define the difference between a "true point guard" and a "defense-oriented guard"? I would like a general answer, not one specifically mentioning anything about Quinn or Tyler.

IMO, a true point guard is one who handles the ball well, sees the floor, understands where people need to be, where/when he needs to get people the ball, defends the other teams point guard (and in Duke's system, puts significant pressure on the ballhandler to take away passing lanes).

If a "defense-oriented guard", like Tyler Thornton you say, is not a "true point guard", then what would you define Rajan Rondo (one who is widely recognized as probably the best defensive point guard in the NBA) as? Or maybe you could classify Gary Payton for me? Mark Jackson? Walt Frazier?

Tyler is more than capable of running this team, especially on the defensive end of the floor. To me he seems a lot like Sean Dockery, who I think most would agree was a more than capable role player/starter on a couple elite Duke teams.

Duke: A Dynasty
04-02-2011, 04:27 AM
sigh . . i'm getting really tired of arguing about this, all of your arguments have already been brought up at least twice. But I'll go on one last rant, seth is NOT a point guard, can we just accept that? He's a good player, but he's not a point guard, he's just not. Neither is Austin. With A Seth/Austin Backcourt, we're back to the same thing as the Nolan/Seth offense, except Austin isn't quite as good as Nolan until we are pretty well into the season, and he gets some game experience. So we go back to running a bunch of screens and hoping someone gets open, and occasionally Nolan (Austin) makes a great move and scores. The Plumlees don't get as involved and there's not as much of a transition game because there are only 1.5 good ball handlers on the court. Meanwhile, Seth can't run to the 3 point line in transition because he has to handle the ball. Plus, you are overrating Austin's court vision (he's a scorer, not a set up guy) and Seth's quickness. He is quick enough to guard most guards, yes, but quinn is alot quicker, and for the 50th time, he can create offense for himself and others because he actually has a game driving to the basket, and is capable of finishing or dishing it in traffic.

But seriously, I'm not changing anyone's mind anyways, and I just don't care anymore, but that's my opinion.

but don't think I'm not digging up this thread when Quinn is the starting PG sometime in february

I think you are missing the point though and underestimating Austin Rivers. I agree whole heartedly that Cook is the superior pg to Seth. But for next year Seth would fit better with Rivers than would Cook until Cook proves something.

No matter who starts at pg Rivers will be the main ball handler and essiantially our pg in that sense so we do not need another out there unless it was someone of Kyrie's talent level or Kyrie himself.

Saratoga2
04-02-2011, 07:56 AM
Like most, with Kyrie likely to be gone, I believe Seth will start at PG early in the season. Later, the PG role is likely to go to either Quin or Tyler. A lot will depend upon how well Quin accommodates to DIV I ball and to how much improvement has been made by Tyler. Quin seems to have the speed and ability to run the point, just lacks experience. Tyler seems to need to improve his ability to put on offensive pressure through his penetration and scoring. He could also tone down his defensive aggressiveness to avoid picking fouls at such a rapid rate.

Seth is a very good player but the team would be less dangerous with him at the point and I expect him untimately to be in the SC position at times and do some PG duty. The issue of having two players under 6'2" on the floor at the same time is not so much of a problem when the oppoonents guards are also small.

It will be interesting to see how coach K adapts the game strategy to these new players.

dukelifer
04-02-2011, 08:31 AM
Watching Cook lead his team yesterday - a few things stand out. First he is used to being the leader on the floor- so it will be interesting to see how he would handle coming off the bench. Second- he does have a tendency to force a bit- no look, one handed passes- drives into the trees that go no where. But at the end when his team needed him- he nailed free throw after free throw and made critical plays. He is a very good player and will get better- but he will be an up and down freshman next year. Curry is better now and will likely improve markedly over the summer, but Cook will be a solid backup.

NSDukeFan
04-02-2011, 09:26 AM
Hey, I completely agree with this statement. But the fact is, we have a bunch of talented wings players. Quinn is the team's 1 true point guard if Kyrie leaves.

oh . . and he's WAY better than 3 and 1/2 year starter Greg Paulus.

I may be a bit sensitive because Paulus was a player I always rooted for. He always seemed to do everything asked of him while going through some injuries in his career, which did not end the way that I hoped and I am sure he hoped. Should we maybe wait until Cook is in the top 10 all time in Duke assists, 3-pointers made, 3 point FG% and makes an all-ACC team before we classify him as WAY better than 3 & 1/2 year starter Greg Paulus? Or maybe at least is on his way to reaching some of the career marks that Paulus did? Or shoots the team to a big victory vs. UNC first before considering him WAY better than Paulus?

COYS
04-02-2011, 09:58 AM
sigh . . i'm getting really tired of arguing about this, all of your arguments have already been brought up at least twice. But I'll go on one last rant, seth is NOT a point guard, can we just accept that? He's a good player, but he's not a point guard, he's just not. Neither is Austin. With A Seth/Austin Backcourt, we're back to the same thing as the Nolan/Seth offense, except Austin isn't quite as good as Nolan until we are pretty well into the season, and he gets some game experience. So we go back to running a bunch of screens and hoping someone gets open, and occasionally Nolan (Austin) makes a great move and scores. The Plumlees don't get as involved and there's not as much of a transition game because there are only 1.5 good ball handlers on the court. Meanwhile, Seth can't run to the 3 point line in transition because he has to handle the ball. Plus, you are overrating Austin's court vision (he's a scorer, not a set up guy) and Seth's quickness. He is quick enough to guard most guards, yes, but quinn is alot quicker, and for the 50th time, he can create offense for himself and others because he actually has a game driving to the basket, and is capable of finishing or dishing it in traffic.

But seriously, I'm not changing anyone's mind anyways, and I just don't care anymore, but that's my opinion.

but don't think I'm not digging up this thread when Quinn is the starting PG sometime in february

The problem is that you are ignoring the facts that show that Seth can be a point guard. Perhaps he doesn't have the penetration/finish in traffic at the rim/break a defender down off the dribble skills that so many think "makes" a point guard, but he absolutely does have the court sense, handle, and instincts to be a point guard. I've stated a number of times, but I will state again that his Pomeroy-stats (http://www.kenpom.com/team.php?team=Duke) show a lot of similarities between Seth and Jon Scheyer. In fact, if we assume that Seth's redshirt year gave him a leg up on Jon in terms of freshman year stats, Seth fits nicely between Frosh-Jon and Soph-Jon. Both had low turnover rates with good assists rates. Both had very solid offensive ratings aided by good free throw shooting (although Seth is not in Jon's class, yet). And Seth did this despite a very inconsistent first year. If Seth can improve his 2pt shooting percentage, which I'm sure he will as he already started looking better driving to the hoop and hitting jumpers/floaters by the end of the season, his offensive rating will go up. If he gets more of the ball handling duties, his assist rate will go up. All in all, it is very possible that, if he continues to improve, Seth can become a Jon-esque point guard for Duke. I'm not saying that Seth will be as good as Jon (I'm in the retire Jon's number camp), but he has a lot of similarities.

Perhaps the greatest similarity is that he doesn't seem to pass the "eye" administered by so many on this board. Quinn may very well play a lot at the point, but I will be utterly shocked if it happens because Seth can't manage the offense effectively.

Kedsy
04-02-2011, 12:24 PM
I agree whole heartedly that Cook is the superior pg to Seth.

This is a bold statement unless you have seen Quinn play in something other than a couple all-star games. I haven't ever seen Quinn play in a "real" game, and thus I cannot wholeheartedly agree that he is anything, superior or less so.



But for next year Seth would fit better with Rivers than would Cook until Cook proves something.

This, I agree with, although I'm not sure what Quinn could "prove" to change it. He will be a talented freshman who is not considered elite by the recruiting services. I'll be thrilled with 12 to 15 strong minutes a game (although it's possible he doesn't even get that much PT; again, until we see him play in real games against tough college competition, I don't think any of us can do more than make wild guesses in this area).


No matter who starts at pg Rivers will be the main ball handler and essiantially our pg in that sense so we do not need another out there unless it was someone of Kyrie's talent level or Kyrie himself.

This, I also agree with.

gumbomoop
04-02-2011, 12:49 PM
I have no strong opinion [yet] on the Cook v. Curry PG debate in this thread. I've posted elsewhere that, even without Kyrie, Duke will have 4 guys who can play PG next season. The most talented PG, Austin Rivers, is unlikely to bring the ball up court, but he'll surely play a lot of PW [point-wing].

Anyhow, on the general subject of overlooking Quin Cook, he has looked quite impressive in the ESPN/Rise invitational. The boys' final is to begin in just a few minutes, presumably mere seconds after Hubert, Digger, Dick, and Jay give us their Semifinal predictions. So, for those who haven't seen Cook except maybe for the McDonald's game, give him a look for the first quarter or more. He has certainly played like a star in the first 2 games in this tourney.

J4Kop99
04-02-2011, 12:55 PM
I have no strong opinion [yet] on the Cook v. Curry PG debate in this thread. I've posted elsewhere that, even without Kyrie, Duke will have 4 guys who can play PG next season. The most talented PG, Austin Rivers, is unlikely to bring the ball up court, but he'll surely play a lot of PW [point-wing].

Anyhow, on the general subject of overlooking Quin Cook, he has looked quite impressive in the ESPN/Rise invitational. The boys' final is to begin in just a few minutes, presumably mere seconds after Hubert, Digger, Dick, and Jay give us their Semifinal predictions. So, for those who haven't seen Cook except maybe for the McDonald's game, give him a look for the first quarter or more. He has certainly played like a star in the first 2 games in this tourney.

Is it on ESPN?

sagegrouse
04-02-2011, 01:00 PM
Is it on ESPN?

Yes. In two minutes. -- sagegrouse

DukieInBrasil
04-02-2011, 01:01 PM
There is potential for 5 freshman. We have lost two senior champs (experience counts more than the year), but there is something that I don't get. Hairston and Thornton are going to be virtual freshmen after they didn't play their first season. Thornton could be our only natural 1 coming back. Seth is a natural 2 (Nolan dominated the ball control with great success, and for that reason, he played point most of this year), and Quinn is a natural 1. We will have to see if Seth plays a 1 to Austin's 2 as well as, a natural 1, Quinn does.
Also, Gbinije could very well play. We have a 6'4 guy who is really a sophomore in Dawkins (he was a young freshman who went through a rough freshman year, and he improved, but didn't star for us last year). I love Andre, but he has got to work on his handle and his defense.
Neither Hairston or Thornton will be "virtual" freshmen next year, they played a whole year in Duke's system and played in a lot of games. Tyler even started a few games, so that claim is just ridiculous. Unless you wanna say that Ryan Kelly was also a Fr. this past year, seeing as how he got a few DNPs and didn't play a ton of minutes.
Also, Dre is also not a "virtual" So., he has played 2 full seasons at Duke and he's played a lot of minutes in both NCAA tourneys he's been at Duke for.
Just because somebody didn't start or play 20+mpg as a Fr. doesn't mean that they'll be a "virtual" Fr. when they enter their So. season.

licc85
04-02-2011, 01:05 PM
Justin Anderson (Maryland recruit) is on Montrose Christian. His dream school was Duke but we didn't recruit him. Wonder if he's got a chip on his shoulder? heh

Gthoma2a
04-02-2011, 01:09 PM
Did Hairston ever look comfortable being out there instead of the Plumlees (he didn't look like he felt ready to me)? Did Thornton play like he had confidence taking over Kyrie's spot (remember when in HS, he dominated Kendall Marshall, but he had trouble in his freshman year; I think that has to do with confidence, because he has the skill)? I recall Coach K mentioning Dre being a virtual freshman this year. He didn't play any less, and he played in more key moments than either of these guys during his actual freshman year. He was hitting shots in the ACC championship, and got a huge dunk. He continued to make key shots in the NCAA tournament. I like these guys, but it is ridiculous to say that without playing in big minutes for a year, Tyler will be better than Quinn (a player that exudes confidence). If you don't see that his performance in these high caliber games is a sign of confidence, then you are highly mistaken. There isn't a single player in an all-star game that isn't going to play D1 ball, and now he is leading his team with an ownership of his team in the ESPN Rise tournament.

Furthermore, if you are willing to say that Austin is so much better than Seth at the 2 that there is no question of who will get that spot, then why are you that quick to say that Seth (a two turned combo) will be that much better than Quinn? Do you just think Quinn is a weak player? I don't think he is, but no matter how we argue, we won't be making one guy a starter. K will decide this.

mattman91
04-02-2011, 01:28 PM
Did Hairston ever look comfortable being out there instead of the Plumlees (he didn't look like he felt ready to me)? Did Thornton play like he had confidence taking over Kyrie's spot (remember when in HS, he dominated Kendall Marshall, but he had trouble in his freshman year; I think that has to do with confidence, because he has the skill)? I recall Coach K mentioning Dre being a virtual freshman this year. He didn't play any less, and he played in more key moments than either of these guys during his actual freshman year. He was hitting shots in the ACC championship, and got a huge dunk. He continued to make key shots in the NCAA tournament. I like these guys, but it is ridiculous to say that without playing in big minutes for a year, Tyler will be better than Quinn (a player that exudes confidence). If you don't see that his performance in these high caliber games is a sign of confidence, then you are highly mistaken. There isn't a single player in an all-star game that isn't going to play D1 ball, and now he is leading his team with an ownership of his team in the ESPN Rise tournament.

Furthermore, if you are willing to say that Austin is so much better than Seth at the 2 that there is no question of who will get that spot, then why are you that quick to say that Seth (a two turned combo) will be that much better than Quinn? Do you just think Quinn is a weak player? I don't think he is, but no matter how we argue, we won't be making one guy a starter. K will decide this.


This is just way too early. Coach K doesn't even know who is going to start or how much time each player will play and at what position.

Gthoma2a
04-02-2011, 01:32 PM
This is just way too early. Coach K doesn't even know who is going to start or how much time each player will play and at what position.

I don't know if I got it across or if I rambled too much in my previous post, but this was the point I was drawing to. Counting any player out personally, as fans, is not going to make a difference to K. K will watch who is playing best, and decide based off of chemistry, ability, confidence, and matchups. Our arguing over this is really for no reason.

licc85
04-02-2011, 02:18 PM
Montrose is guarding Quinn really physically and their size inside is causing him to shoot a lot of threes. He needs to be more patient if they are going to win this game. nobody out there is playing harder or showing more emotion though.

And he just hit a crazy floater in the lane!

licc85
04-02-2011, 02:26 PM
The problem is that you are ignoring the facts that show that Seth can be a point guard. Perhaps he doesn't have the penetration/finish in traffic at the rim/break a defender down off the dribble skills that so many think "makes" a point guard, but he absolutely does have the court sense, handle, and instincts to be a point guard. I've stated a number of times, but I will state again that his Pomeroy-stats (http://www.kenpom.com/team.php?team=Duke) show a lot of similarities between Seth and Jon Scheyer. In fact, if we assume that Seth's redshirt year gave him a leg up on Jon in terms of freshman year stats, Seth fits nicely between Frosh-Jon and Soph-Jon. Both had low turnover rates with good assists rates. Both had very solid offensive ratings aided by good free throw shooting (although Seth is not in Jon's class, yet). And Seth did this despite a very inconsistent first year. If Seth can improve his 2pt shooting percentage, which I'm sure he will as he already started looking better driving to the hoop and hitting jumpers/floaters by the end of the season, his offensive rating will go up. If he gets more of the ball handling duties, his assist rate will go up. All in all, it is very possible that, if he continues to improve, Seth can become a Jon-esque point guard for Duke. I'm not saying that Seth will be as good as Jon (I'm in the retire Jon's number camp), but he has a lot of similarities.

Perhaps the greatest similarity is that he doesn't seem to pass the "eye" administered by so many on this board. Quinn may very well play a lot at the point, but I will be utterly shocked if it happens because Seth can't manage the offense effectively.

You bring up several very good points, however, I see 2 problems here. Seth is 6'1", and Jon was 6'5" they are still very different players on very different teams. Zoubs and Lance were the real backbone of that team's defense, and we don't have that intimidating presence down low anymore. That team was a VERY halfcourt oriented offense which relied heavily on second chance points from offensive rebounding and kickouts for open threes, (Zoubs was also a HUGE part of the offense because of this) which we may or may not have next year. Someone on the perimeter is going to have to create opportunities for scoring.

I'd also like to re-emphasize that my whole argument does not contradict that fact that Seth will probably start a lot of our games. This whole time, I've been saying that when Quinn is ready to start, it will be towards the middle or end of the season, when he learns how to defend guards at the college level. I did get a little hyped up after his 27 point game in the semis of the NHIS, but at no point in this thread did I say "Quinn is the starter from day 1." Just putting that out there.

coldriver10
04-02-2011, 02:27 PM
Montrose is guarding Quinn really physically and their size inside is causing him to shoot a lot of threes. He needs to be more patient if they are going to win this game. nobody out there is playing harder or showing more emotion though.

And he just hit a crazy floater in the lane!
There have been a few instances where I felt like he showed his frustration with his teammates in an unproductive way. Having said that, I would also be frustrated if I made a great drive and my teammates couldn't catch the dish...

He has made some great passes in this one. He's forcing the 3s a bit too much, but overall he's managing the offense pretty well.

Gthoma2a
04-02-2011, 02:27 PM
Montrose is guarding Quinn really physically and their size inside is causing him to shoot a lot of threes. He needs to be more patient if they are going to win this game. nobody out there is playing harder or showing more emotion though.

And he just hit a crazy floater in the lane!

He's the main guy really getting after it on his team. The rest of them are just playing. In his fourth high stakes (I know one was the All-American, but he wanted to look good) game in four days. He is giving it everything he has left. I hope they win.

sporthenry
04-02-2011, 02:31 PM
Montrose is guarding Quinn really physically and their size inside is causing him to shoot a lot of threes. He needs to be more patient if they are going to win this game. nobody out there is playing harder or showing more emotion though.

And he just hit a crazy floater in the lane!

He has a very good mid range game and seems to have that floater down although that shot will be a lot different vs players like Henson. My one concern is that his defense looks very lazy in which he is always cheating looking for the steal and he is always on the run out. You never see him in the frame when his team is rebounding. I think defense will be what keeps him back but it is always hard to translate these high school games into college games b/c KI looked a little similar.

Gthoma2a
04-02-2011, 02:32 PM
He has a very good mid range game and seems to have that floater down although that shot will be a lot different vs players like Henson. My one concern is that his defense looks very lazy and he is always on the run out. You never see him in the frame when his team is rebounding. I think defense will be what keeps him back.

Nice steal a second ago into the assist.

sporthenry
04-02-2011, 02:35 PM
Nice steal a second ago into the assist.

But it occurred after his guy went by him and he didn't follow him and just picked up the bigger guy on the perimeter. It was hardly good defense, just him cheating again. I will say KI seemed to play defense similarly and I guess they can get away with it and they aren't going against other top talents but that is my main concern.

Gthoma2a
04-02-2011, 02:39 PM
But it occurred after his guy went by him and he didn't follow him and just picked up the bigger guy on the perimeter. It was hardly good defense, just him cheating again. I will say KI seemed to play defense similarly and I guess they can get away with it and they aren't going against other top talents but that is my main concern.

Understood, but I am just happy that he is still playing his heart out. We know Kyrie did the same thing, and he did a heck of a job for us. My feeling is that very few HS players are lockdown defenders until they have a college coach breathing down their necks. He could be losing his legs after a hard week too, but he is a heck of a player. He is giving it his all.

Missing the 1 and 1. He has got to be getting tired.

licc85
04-02-2011, 02:40 PM
oh MAN . . . that miss on the 1-and-1 was brutal. I guess we're going to OT

sporthenry
04-02-2011, 02:41 PM
Understood, but I am just happy that he is still playing his heart out. We know Kyrie did the same thing, and there was never he did a heck of a job for us. My feeling is that very few HS players are lockdown defenders until they have a college coach breathing down their necks. He could be losing his legs after a hard week too, but he is a heck of a player. He is giving it his all.

No I agree and especially with K they know defense is the way to get on the floor and K has other options whereas Oak Hill has to play him regardless. But I do agree I like his intensity.

coldriver10
04-02-2011, 02:46 PM
He has had such success penetrating the defense...I wonder why he's settling for these step-back, contested 3s?

Gthoma2a
04-02-2011, 02:48 PM
He has had such success penetrating the defense...I wonder why he's settling for these step-back, contested 3s?

Same reason he is bricking the 3s. I think his legs are getting worn out.

licc85
04-02-2011, 02:52 PM
Same reason he is bricking the 3s. I think his legs are getting worn out.

didnt look like he was tired on that spin move to the basket, that was sick!

Gthoma2a
04-02-2011, 02:54 PM
didnt look like he was tired on that spin move to the basket, that was sick!

True, but I think he is going on heart a lot... OMG!!! Why did they hit that?!!! GAAAh!

AlaskanAssassin
04-02-2011, 02:56 PM
Gary Williams is pumping his fist on that 3-pointer!

licc85
04-02-2011, 03:03 PM
ahhhhhh that sucks!!!! :(

Hopefully it makes him even more hungry to improve his game and win a championship at the next level.

moonpie23
04-02-2011, 03:03 PM
cook fouled out.....oak hill going down

Gthoma2a
04-02-2011, 03:04 PM
I feel bad for Quinn. Oak Hill didn't have anybody else playing that hard, though. He gave it his all. They wouldn't be anywhere near here without him.

AlaskanAssassin
04-02-2011, 03:08 PM
There are times where he forced a three, like the the rainbow three by oak hill bench. Like Biancardi said, he didn't need to do it all himself.

Saratoga2
04-02-2011, 03:12 PM
He displayed a lot of talent today with ball handling and scoring. I did think he also has some things for coach K to work on with him though.

1. Ill advised threes. In most cases, he seemed to have other better alternatives, but seemed to want to take the shot instead. I think coach K needs to work with him on decision making.

2. I wonder about his attitude out there. Covering ones head with your shirt every time one makes a less than perfect shot for instance. Hanging ones head for the same reason and making faces. Some of this is normal for kids who feel they are letting others down, but on the other hand, it can interfere with the next play. In my view, Duke coaches and players need to deal with what appears to be an attitude issue as well.

licc85
04-02-2011, 03:13 PM
There are times where he forced a three, like the the rainbow three by oak hill bench. Like Biancardi said, he didn't need to do it all himself.

it's ok, he'll be more willing to pass the ball when a good portion of the roster is more talented than him next year.

Sgt. Dingleberry
04-02-2011, 03:16 PM
That was a heck of a game. Hopefully tonight's games can be that good.

As we all observed, Quinn jacked up way too many 3's and should have been more aggressive in driving to the basket, but everybody is a critic...

Tyrone Johnson and Justin Anderson really impressed me. I don't watch a lot of high school basketball, so I am by no means a scout, but I am surprised we didn't bring Anderson aboard. I am not looking forward to playing him in the year's to come. He has a nice shot and the amount of athletic plays he made was impressive.

licc85
04-02-2011, 03:16 PM
He displayed a lot of talent today with ball handling and scoring. I did think he also has some things for coach K to work on with him though.

1. Ill advised threes. In most cases, he seemed to have other better alternatives, but seemed to want to take the shot instead. I think coach K needs to work with him on decision making.

2. I wonder about his attitude out there. Covering ones head with your shirt every time one makes a less than perfect shot for instance. Hanging ones head for the same reason and making faces. Some of this is normal for kids who feel they are letting others down, but on the other hand, it can interfere with the next play. In my view, Duke coaches and players need to deal with what appears to be an attitude issue as well.

With Quinn, i think it's less of an attitude problem than him just wearing his emotions on his sleeve. He's a very coachable kid. He just needs to learn how to go into "next play" mode. He won't have the green light to shoot threes off the dribble whenever he wants at Duke, so we won't have to worry about that.

Kedsy
04-02-2011, 03:19 PM
it's ok, he'll be more willing to pass the ball when a good portion of the roster is more talented than him next year.


With Quinn, i think it's less of an attitude problem than him just wearing his emotions on his sleeve. He's a very coachable kid.

I'm not trying to be snarky or anything. I'm just curious: How do you know all this stuff?

mattman91
04-02-2011, 03:23 PM
I don't know if I got it across or if I rambled too much in my previous post, but this was the point I was drawing to. Counting any player out personally, as fans, is not going to make a difference to K. K will watch who is playing best, and decide based off of chemistry, ability, confidence, and matchups. Our arguing over this is really for no reason.

Exactly, I was agreeing. It's just too early.

MCFinARL
04-02-2011, 03:40 PM
With Quinn, i think it's less of an attitude problem than him just wearing his emotions on his sleeve. He's a very coachable kid. He just needs to learn how to go into "next play" mode.

This makes sense, to the extent we can judge from watching this tournament. This is a high school kid who is clearly the go-to guy on his team, and he was playing in his last real high school game, win or lose. He presumably wanted to win very badly and took a lot of responsibility on himself (too much, really, as other commenters have noted). He did get a little upset at times when his shots didn't fall--but Nolan Smith didn't look too happy late in the Arizona game, either. The difference is that Nolan knows, as you put it, how to go into "next play" mode (at least until there isn't a next play, sigh....). It's a learnable skill, I think, and if that's an issue for him I assume the coaching staff will start working with him on it right away. Plus, of course, he won't be coming into the Duke program with the same kinds of responsibility and expectations he has had at Oak Hill. I didn't see any signs today of the kind of attitude problems that might be more worrisome--sulking, talking back to coaches, not following the game when on the bench, etc.

dakkon74
04-02-2011, 03:40 PM
He displayed a lot of talent today with ball handling and scoring. I did think he also has some things for coach K to work on with him though.

1. Ill advised threes. In most cases, he seemed to have other better alternatives, but seemed to want to take the shot instead. I think coach K needs to work with him on decision making.

2. I wonder about his attitude out there. Covering ones head with your shirt every time one makes a less than perfect shot for instance. Hanging ones head for the same reason and making faces. Some of this is normal for kids who feel they are letting others down, but on the other hand, it can interfere with the next play. In my view, Duke coaches and players need to deal with what appears to be an attitude issue as well.

I agree about the jersey. Must be a nervous tic or something.

Also, he seemed to throw his hands up in disbelieve for every call that went against his team. He seems to have the Euro-whine thing down. I don't watch much HS bball, so maybe that is just normal for that age group.

licc85
04-02-2011, 03:52 PM
I'm not trying to be snarky or anything. I'm just curious: How do you know all this stuff?

Well, it's a lot easier to follow high school, and college players now because of youtube, ESPNU, and all kinds of other media, including Twitter (both Quinn and Austin tweet a LOT) and Facebook. Instead of only seeing what happens on the court, you can get to know the player's personalities. Duke Blue Planet is a good example of this. You kind of start to understand each player's personality, and how they affect team chemistry. Quinn is a natural leader and he's extremely emotional, but he's not a troublemaker and does not have an attitude problem. Coach K doesn't recruit guys like that. I do know for a fact that he is very coachable because Steve Smith, his coach, said so.

i mean, obviously I don't know some of these things for sure . . that's why I said "I think," but these are easy inferences to make. I have no doubt Coach K will want him to play the role of a pass-first point guard, because that is THE strongest aspect of his game.

rotogod00
04-02-2011, 04:21 PM
@PaulBiancardi Oak Hill's Quinn Cook had an outstanding tournament w/81 points over 3 games! He also was handing out assist'- the young man has BIG HEART!

big heart almost as important as big skills. me like

dcar1985
04-02-2011, 04:35 PM
He displayed a lot of talent today with ball handling and scoring. I did think he also has some things for coach K to work on with him though.

1. Ill advised threes. In most cases, he seemed to have other better alternatives, but seemed to want to take the shot instead. I think coach K needs to work with him on decision making.

2. I wonder about his attitude out there. Covering ones head with your shirt every time one makes a less than perfect shot for instance. Hanging ones head for the same reason and making faces. Some of this is normal for kids who feel they are letting others down, but on the other hand, it can interfere with the next play. In my view, Duke coaches and players need to deal with what appears to be an attitude issue as well.

You have to realize that this was Quinns last high school game plus they're playing for a National Championship, there is going to be alot of emotions running, I dont think you can blame him or say he has an attitude problem for showing that emotion. Nobody said anything about Nolan when he went to the bench at the end of the Arizona game and begin to cry, would you have said he has an attitude problem if he decided to bury his head in a towel?

Duke: A Dynasty
04-02-2011, 06:45 PM
This is a bold statement unless you have seen Quinn play in something other than a couple all-star games. I haven't ever seen Quinn play in a "real" game, and thus I cannot wholeheartedly agree that he is anything, superior or less so.




This, I agree with, although I'm not sure what Quinn could "prove" to change it. He will be a talented freshman who is not considered elite by the recruiting services. I'll be thrilled with 12 to 15 strong minutes a game (although it's possible he doesn't even get that much PT; again, until we see him play in real games against tough college competition, I don't think any of us can do more than make wild guesses in this area).





Yes I have watched Cook play in several games that are not All Star games. I did not mean to make it sound like right now he is superior as a pg. I should have clarified that I meant down the road he will be the better pg. Perhaps after Rivers leaves I think Cook becomes the starter at pg and Curry moves over to sg.


What I meant by prove something was that prove he should start over Curry. Maybe he proves to us he is ready to start right away by being a better creator, distributer, game manager than Curry all while scoring proficiantly. I just do not see this happening his first year.

Kedsy
04-02-2011, 10:46 PM
Yes I have watched Cook play in several games that are not All Star games. I did not mean to make it sound like right now he is superior as a pg. I should have clarified that I meant down the road he will be the better pg. Perhaps after Rivers leaves I think Cook becomes the starter at pg and Curry moves over to sg.


What I meant by prove something was that prove he should start over Curry. Maybe he proves to us he is ready to start right away by being a better creator, distributer, game manager than Curry all while scoring proficiantly. I just do not see this happening his first year.

OK, thanks. I agree with pretty much all of this.

Greg_Newton
04-02-2011, 11:44 PM
FWIW:


With Kyrie Irving projected to be the 1st pick in the NBA draft will Quinn Cook be able to provide solid point guard play during the 2011-2012 season?

- Mario from Fayetteville

My best guess is that Cook will contribute during his freshman year as a combo-ish guard who comes off the bench to provide scoring. I just don't think he defends well enough to start as a freshman over Tyler Thornton.

Duke will have scoring options around its point guard, and a point guard who can pressure the opposing point guard and prevent penetration will be more important for Coach K than having a scoring oriented point guard.

Cook will certainly improve as a defender during his time at Duke, but I don't think he will be ready right off the bat to defend ACC point guards.

-http://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1207111

licc85
04-03-2011, 05:44 AM
FWIW:



-http://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1207111

So, when did Jerry Meyer become the definitive Duke basketball expert? This guy thinks TT will start at PG.

dukelifer
04-03-2011, 06:40 AM
Yes I have watched Cook play in several games that are not All Star games. I did not mean to make it sound like right now he is superior as a pg. I should have clarified that I meant down the road he will be the better pg. Perhaps after Rivers leaves I think Cook becomes the starter at pg and Curry moves over to sg.


What I meant by prove something was that prove he should start over Curry. Maybe he proves to us he is ready to start right away by being a better creator, distributer, game manager than Curry all while scoring proficiantly. I just do not see this happening his first year.

Quinn will likely be a 4 year guy and will have his ups and downs his first two years like fellow Oak Hill guard Nolan Smith- then he we will come into his own. The kid is a winner and a leader but that will not come out for a little while until he learns the college game. Irving was a special player- ready to step in on day one. Unfortunately we did not get to see much of him- but the little we did was pretty amazing.

Saratoga2
04-03-2011, 06:41 AM
You have to realize that this was Quinns last high school game plus they're playing for a National Championship, there is going to be alot of emotions running, I dont think you can blame him or say he has an attitude problem for showing that emotion. Nobody said anything about Nolan when he went to the bench at the end of the Arizona game and begin to cry, would you have said he has an attitude problem if he decided to bury his head in a towel?

Nolan had proven himself over many seasons as being one of the best overall players Duke has been fortunate enough to recruit. Quinn is coming in as is Austin, with great expectations, because they have special abilities. Those special abilities are less special when compared to other big time recruits. I would love to see both of them develop in the Kyrie style. Great team play with great chemistry and warmth. Kyrie exhibited what a team player is, despite having super talent.

dcdrumsinc
04-03-2011, 10:18 AM
The development of freshman from this year's kentucky and uconn teams is a clear example of how inexperienced talent can be dangerous. Sure, a young duke team starting rivers and cook at the guard positions might not help us and coach K rack up regular wins, but tournament time, we could be dangerous. I think the learning curve for a guy like Quinn would be smoother than Nolan despite the fact the pg position is the toughest to master. I think this mainly because Quinn is more of a true pg in the sense, moreso than Nolan who was a tweener, combo guard for pretty much his entire career

Kedsy
04-03-2011, 11:10 AM
The development of freshman from this year's kentucky and uconn teams is a clear example of how inexperienced talent can be dangerous. Sure, a young duke team starting rivers and cook at the guard positions might not help us and coach K rack up regular wins, but tournament time, we could be dangerous. I think the learning curve for a guy like Quinn would be smoother than Nolan despite the fact the pg position is the toughest to master. I think this mainly because Quinn is more of a true pg in the sense, moreso than Nolan who was a tweener, combo guard for pretty much his entire career

Well, if you judge solely on NCAA tournament success, Butler and VCU have been just as successful as UConn and Kentucky this year -- so maybe Duke should renounce the ACC, re-classify as a mid-major and try to win from an 8 or 11 seed?

UConn and Kentucky each had nine (9) regular season losses -- UConn finished in a three-way tie for ninth place in the Big East (meaning only a tie-breaker kept them from being the 11th place team). Kentucky had the third best record in a sub-par SEC. Not only that, but Kentucky only had two returning players who had averaged double-figure minutes in any season before this one; Calipari had no choice but to play three freshman among his six man rotation.

Neither of these teams are particularly good arguments for turning over the reins to freshmen if you don't have to.

Gthoma2a
04-03-2011, 01:29 PM
Well, if you judge solely on NCAA tournament success, Butler and VCU have been just as successful as UConn and Kentucky this year -- so maybe Duke should renounce the ACC, re-classify as a mid-major and try to win from an 8 or 11 seed?

UConn and Kentucky each had nine (9) regular season losses -- UConn finished in a three-way tie for ninth place in the Big East (meaning only a tie-breaker kept them from being the 11th place team). Kentucky had the third best record in a sub-par SEC. Not only that, but Kentucky only had two returning players who had averaged double-figure minutes in any season before this one; Calipari had no choice but to play three freshman among his six man rotation.

Neither of these teams are particularly good arguments for turning over the reins to freshmen if you don't have to.

I hate to say it, but playing the freshmen may get you a loss or two, but you deal less with inexperienced players who have less than 4 years of playing time under their belt. Both of these teams are good examples for one thing. They may have lost their conference regular seasons, but they each won their conference tournaments. That sounds familiar. There are many paths to an end, but any approach is hit and miss.

I would like to see us play the young guys more sometimes. The reason I say this is that guys like Tyler don't look as sharp at the end of the season as guys like Kendall Marshall. Tyler is a stronger player, but Kendall had battle experience by the end of the year. Tyler won't be stepping in like it is just another day when, and if, he starts, but Kendall will. We don't need him to be the only guy to play him, because we never know who we will ultimately need down the line. Next year, we have Tyler, Seth, and Quinn to play PG. Let's say our starter goes down again midseason, do we want to be left scrambling to get someone ready, or do we want to have a few players with some experience playing their position on our team to put into the game? It could also pay dividends later on in their careers.

I'm not advocating one or the other completely, but I am saying that there are many means to the same end. Technically, they had less success early, but they did get farther later.

Kedsy
04-03-2011, 02:05 PM
I would like to see us play the young guys more sometimes. The reason I say this is that guys like Tyler don't look as sharp at the end of the season as guys like Kendall Marshall. Tyler is a stronger player, but Kendall had battle experience by the end of the year.

I like Tyler as a player, but what evidence do you have that he is stronger than Kendall Marshall? According to RSCI, Marshall was the 25th best high school prospect in 2010, while Tyler was not in the top 100. In 2010-11, Marshall looked a lot more college ready than Tyler and I hate to say it but he looked a lot better, too. You think it was because Marshall played 14.5 minutes per game in November and December and Tyler only played 7.7 mpg? Or maybe it was because Kendall Marshall is the better player?

Young players get as much or more experience in practice than they do in games. If something happens and they are needed, it seems most of the time they can step right in (e.g., Elliot Williams in 2009).

But even if that were not so, whether we as fans would rather see the young players get more playing time is immaterial. History suggests Coach K will only give them a lot of playing time under extraordinary circumstances or if the freshman is the best of the best. Will Austin Rivers fall into that latter category? I assume so. DeAndre Daniels (if we get him)? I have no idea. Michael Gbinije or Quinn Cook? I'd be surprised, but I suppose you never know. The better bet is on our returning players showing immense improvement and taking up the lion's share of the minutes.

MCFinARL
04-03-2011, 02:15 PM
I hate to say it, but playing the freshmen may get you a loss or two, but you deal less with inexperienced players who have less than 4 years of playing time under their belt. Both of these teams are good examples for one thing. They may have lost their conference regular seasons, but they each won their conference tournaments. That sounds familiar. There are many paths to an end, but any approach is hit and miss.

I would like to see us play the young guys more sometimes. The reason I say this is that guys like Tyler don't look as sharp at the end of the season as guys like Kendall Marshall. Tyler is a stronger player, but Kendall had battle experience by the end of the year. Tyler won't be stepping in like it is just another day when, and if, he starts, but Kendall will. We don't need him to be the only guy to play him, because we never know who we will ultimately need down the line. Next year, we have Tyler, Seth, and Quinn to play PG. Let's say our starter goes down again midseason, do we want to be left scrambling to get someone ready, or do we want to have a few players with some experience playing their position on our team to put into the game? It could also pay dividends later on in their careers.

I'm not advocating one or the other completely, but I am saying that there are many means to the same end. Technically, they had less success early, but they did get farther later.

I love Tyler Thornton, but in what universe is he a stronger player than Kendall Marshall? How are you defining "stronger"?

Gthoma2a
04-03-2011, 02:38 PM
All of the reports of him outplaying Kendall Marshall. The fact that he won the Gatorade award. This is all in another thread.

http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?21861-Tyler-Thornton-Interview

MCFinARL
04-03-2011, 03:01 PM
All of the reports of him outplaying Kendall Marshall. The fact that he won the Gatorade award. This is all in another thread.

http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?21861-Tyler-Thornton-Interview

Well, I'd say this issue was discussed, but hardly agreed on in the other thread. And it is pointed out there that Tyler won the Gatorade Award for DC, but Kendall Marshall went to school in Virginia--so they didn't compete head to head for that. Whether or not Tyler played well against Kendall in high school, also, depends on a lot of other factors, like who else was on the teams and what their strategies were.

Gthoma2a
04-03-2011, 03:07 PM
Well, I'd say this issue was discussed, but hardly agreed on in the other thread. And it is pointed out there that Tyler won the Gatorade Award for DC, but Kendall Marshall went to school in Virginia--so they didn't compete head to head for that. Whether or not Tyler played well against Kendall in high school, also, depends on a lot of other factors, like who else was on the teams and what their strategies were.

That would seem to be a cop out, but it may be common. They had similar opposition, and similar performances. Looking at their bios, and the head to heads, I tend to see Tyler as better, but I would be surprised to see anyone call him worse.

Look at their bios.

http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=205007414

http://tarheelblue.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/mtt/marshall_kendall00.html

Tyler was also considered the MVP of his team, so he wasn't relying on others to do his work for him (or so his coach thought).

Kedsy
04-03-2011, 04:46 PM
I tend to see Tyler as better, but I would be surprised to see anyone call him worse.

You mean you would not be surprised?

Gthoma2a
04-03-2011, 04:51 PM
You mean you would not be surprised?

No, I mean it would surprise me to hear someone say he is worse than Kendall off of things other than ranking sheets or current position in development. Most of what I heard was equal or better. That was from many different boards (not rankings, but posts of those who had seen them play similar opposition and one another). I don't think Kendall is a better player, but he is further along in development due to a year of prime time experience now.

Leck
04-03-2011, 05:19 PM
after watchin q-ceezy's performances this past weekend in the espn rise tournament, and varoius others throughout the year on espn, he really reminds me a lot of william avery. he can shoot, score, but he's at his best when he's creating for others and then getting his own when he's running at defenses...just like avery.

i think we'll see a dynamic w/ him and TT like we saw w/ avery and wojo in '98...but q-ceezy has a way bigger upside than TT or maybe even avery.

COYS
04-03-2011, 05:57 PM
No, I mean it would surprise me to hear someone say he is worse than Kendall off of things other than ranking sheets or current position in development. Most of what I heard was equal or better. That was from many different boards (not rankings, but posts of those who had seen them play similar opposition and one another). I don't think Kendall is a better player, but he is further along in development due to a year of prime time experience now.

Gthoma2a, I think you overlook the fact that Tyler actually had waaay more playing time this season than was originally expected. He even started a few games in the middle of the ACC slate, which is rare for most freshman, much less one ranked outside of the top 100. The fact is, Tyler proved a solid defender but was extremely limited on the offensive end. He only took 29 shots all season long. He never had any particularly high assist totals. He had a very low usage rate and, of those possessions that he used, 33% of them resulted in turnovers. His free throw shooting was very good and he was cool under pressure a number of times while at the free throw line. He obviously has some great defensive talent and is very strong for his size and his age. I think he will play an important role on future Duke teams. However, he got more than a fair shake to prove that he could be a significant contributor on this year's team. Coach K started him instead of Curry and Dawkins for a fair number of games until Curry earned the starting nod with a great performance against UNC. You say that K didn't give him a chance, but I think the opposite is true. K gave him more of a chance than almost everyone on the board expected this season. And Tyler did a great job, although at the end of the day, his game is still limited at this stage. I hope that by his senior year he is outplaying Kendall Marshall day in and day out (which is totally different than outplaying him in two high school games), but that type of performance was not in the cards this year, as his substantial time on the court demonstrated.

gam7
04-03-2011, 05:57 PM
It's great to see the level of optimism that a lot of folks seem to have right now, but a lot of what I've seen on the boards in recent days seems to me to be pie in the sky.


No, I mean it would surprise me to hear someone say he is worse than Kendall off of things other than ranking sheets or current position in development. Most of what I heard was equal or better. That was from many different boards (not rankings, but posts of those who had seen them play similar opposition and one another). I don't think Kendall is a better player, but he is further along in development due to a year of prime time experience now.

Really? Tyler averaged 9.9 minutes per game this year, while Kendall averaged 24.6. Are you saying that if Tyler had averaged 15 more minutes per game, his level of performance would be at least at the level of where Kendall is now? I think you are not giving Kendall nearly as much credit as he deserves and are giving Tyler too much credit. I know you are basing this opinion on what bulletin boards said about them when they were in high school, but we've seen both of them play for a full season at the college level with our own eyes, and I'm not sure how one can come out of this season thinking that Tyler's ceiling is anywhere near Kendall's.


after watchin q-ceezy's performances this past weekend in the espn rise tournament, and varoius others throughout the year on espn, he really reminds me a lot of william avery. he can shoot, score, but he's at his best when he's creating for others and then getting his own when he's running at defenses...just like avery.

i think we'll see a dynamic w/ him and TT like we saw w/ avery and wojo in '98...but q-ceezy has a way bigger upside than TT or maybe even avery.

Also, really? William Avery does not come to my mind when I see Cook play. Cook seems to force the action a lot more than Avery did (which leads to turnovers). Also, Avery was very physically strong for a PG. Cook does not appear to be nearly as strong.

I hope you are right that Cook's upside may be as high as Avery's. As a sophomore, Avery started all 39 games, averaged 31 minutes per game, shot 41% from 3, 81% from FT line, 14.9 points, 5.0 assists with a 1.92:1 assist to turnover ratio. If Cook ever has a season stat line that looks like this, he will have exceeded all of my expectations.

-jk
04-03-2011, 06:01 PM
No, I mean it would surprise me to hear someone say he is worse than Kendall off of things other than ranking sheets or current position in development. Most of what I heard was equal or better. That was from many different boards (not rankings, but posts of those who had seen them play similar opposition and one another). I don't think Kendall is a better player, but he is further along in development due to a year of prime time experience now.

I think, after both have had a year of college ball, high school experiences can be set aside.

I think by any measure, Kendall Marshall is playing better ball than Tyler. Alas.

-jk

sagegrouse
04-03-2011, 07:11 PM
I think, after both have had a year of college ball, high school experiences can be set aside.

I think by any measure, Kendall Marshall is playing better ball than Tyler. Alas.

-jk

Not to pile on, well -- I guess to pile on just a little, here is a comparison of Marshall and Thornton in 2011:



Player Games MPG PPG RPG APG TO-PG

Marshall 37 24.6 6.2 2.1 6.2 2.5
Thornton 34 09.9 1.6 0.6 1.0 0.6


OTOH Duke was loaded at guard relative to UNC, even with Kyrie on the bench for most of the year. We'll get a better idea next year, if Tyler can stand out among our five-pack of strong guards (six w/ Kyrie).

sagegrouse

Gthoma2a
04-03-2011, 07:13 PM
My point is that with 9.9 minutes per game (usually in uncontested games) instead of around 25 (a lot of it coming in contested games), two players who were near even by most accounts, would have very different confidence levels. That is where the problem is for me. I don't think Kendall is that great a PG, but he is more confident than most freshman point guards now. He started out underachieving, but now he is actually pretty good. That is why confidence is so important to me. If a guy doesn't get enough time to get in the rythm of the game, they aren't going to be maturing into the game. No doubt Tyler was lower on the depth chart, but we could have used him being more comfortable. We saw Kyrie go down for most of the year, and in our final game, we lost Seth. Compound this with Nolan having trouble and Kyrie not being at 100% conditioning, and we could have used the depth.

Think of your first day at a new job, you are generally nervous to see what the differences are in what you have done and what you will do here. As your training progresses, if you are made to leave early every day, and you only work when there isn't much to do, will you ever perform well when the place is in crisis mode? If you think about situations like being a doctor, this would mean that a lesser doctor with more time working during the busy times will likely function better than a superior doctor who hasn't seen what busy really is. This step up is similar to the difference of being an intern to being the guy who has to do everything.

Kedsy
04-03-2011, 07:19 PM
No, I mean it would surprise me to hear someone say he is worse than Kendall off of things other than ranking sheets or current position in development. Most of what I heard was equal or better. That was from many different boards (not rankings, but posts of those who had seen them play similar opposition and one another). I don't think Kendall is a better player, but he is further along in development due to a year of prime time experience now.

I've always assumed the guys who make the ranking sheets have in fact seen the players they are rating? But it doesn't really matter. Other than Tyler's immediate family and possibly some of his teammates and a couple of Duke boards, I think pretty much everyone thought Kendall Marshall was a better prospect coming out of high school.

And now, having seen both of them play, as other posters have said, there is no way the vast difference between them is due to Marshall getting more playing time. I'm sad to say it, but Kendall Marshall is a much better point guard and a much better player than Tyler Thornton, totally independent of how many minutes they played this past season. That doesn't mean I'm not happy with Tyler's game, but let's be honest with ourselves.


My point is that with 9.9 minutes per game (usually in uncontested games) instead of around 25 (a lot of it coming in contested games), two players who were near even by most accounts, would have very different confidence levels.

Where I think your analysis falls short is the two were not "near even by most accounts." There were a few anecdotal accounts of how Tyler "schooled" Marshall in a couple AAU games, but most accounts considered Kendall Marshall a top 30 talent and Tyler not even top 100. You say that shouldn't matter, but it has to for the purposes of this discussion. Marshall was considered a much better prospect, and after seeing both play he seems to be a much better player. The difference between them is way more than confidence level.

Richard Berg
04-03-2011, 07:24 PM
All of the reports of him outplaying Kendall Marshall.
Plenty of good responses already. One more consideration: head-to-head competition doesn't tell you very much about each player's relative contributions to his college teams over the course of a season & career. Maybe KM played badly against him in high school simply because TT is a really pesky defender. That's a great compliment to TT, but it doesn't say anything about their overall value to Roy's and K's systems.

Since everyone loves silly comparisons, here's mine: TT is like Sean Dockery with more upper-body strength. I enjoyed watching Dock play -- especially on D -- and love what I see from TT so far; can't wait to see what he's capable of over the next few years. (Maybe he'll hit a game-winning 3...)

But let's be real. VTech buzzer beaters aside, nobody remembers Dock for his ability to light up the scoreboard. For that matter, if TT ever notches 16 assists in a Duke uniform, I'll eat my hat.

And just to piss everyone off: KM is the slow-yet-sure-footed visionary PG we all thought Greg Paulus was going to be after watching his McD AA game alongside McRoberts.

DevilYouthCoach
04-03-2011, 08:50 PM
Quinn Cook just led the Oak Hill team in scoring against Montrose Christian in the Finals of a National Invitational tournament. He missed a three pointer at the buzzer that would have won the game for Oak Hill. Having watched Quinn lead DeMatha to the Washington D.C.city title and be named Player of the Year in the D.C. Metro area during his junior year, I predict that Quinn will be starting point guard next year for Duke. AND I predict a Nolan Smith level of play very early in his career. This young man is a really good ballplayer.

gam7
04-03-2011, 09:17 PM
Quinn Cook just led the Oak Hill team in scoring against Montrose Christian in the Finals of a National Invitational tournament. He missed a three pointer at the buzzer that would have won the game for Oak Hill. Having watched Quinn lead DeMatha to the Washington D.C.city title and be named Player of the Year in the D.C. Metro area during his junior year, I predict that Quinn will be starting point guard next year for Duke. AND I predict a Nolan Smith level of play very early in his career. This young man is a really good ballplayer.

Freshman/sophomore Nolan, or junior/senior Nolan? I assume you mean the latter. You really think he'll be first team All-American caliber early in his career? I haven't followed him as closely as it sounds like you have, but that sounds like a pretty high bar to me.

Kedsy
04-03-2011, 09:31 PM
Having watched Quinn lead DeMatha to the Washington D.C.city title and be named Player of the Year in the D.C. Metro area during his junior year, I predict that Quinn will be starting point guard next year for Duke.

Except Tyler Thornton was also DC Metro area player of the year and led his team to the Washington DC city title during his junior year. But he didn't become a starting point guard for Duke his freshman year.

Every freshman we get is a really good player who was a star in high school. That doesn't mean they start from day one. Very few of them do.

COYS
04-03-2011, 10:27 PM
My point is that with 9.9 minutes per game (usually in uncontested games) instead of around 25 (a lot of it coming in contested games), two players who were near even by most accounts, would have very different confidence levels. That is where the problem is for me. I don't think Kendall is that great a PG, but he is more confident than most freshman point guards now. He started out underachieving, but now he is actually pretty good. That is why confidence is so important to me. If a guy doesn't get enough time to get in the rythm of the game, they aren't going to be maturing into the game. No doubt Tyler was lower on the depth chart, but we could have used him being more comfortable. We saw Kyrie go down for most of the year, and in our final game, we lost Seth. Compound this with Nolan having trouble and Kyrie not being at 100% conditioning, and we could have used the depth.



Gthoma2a, I agree that his MPG numbers at the end of the season were limited. But he played waaaaaay more than mop-up duty for a decent chunk of the season against solid competition. Despite that, he didn't crack the stat sheet very much at all. When he did, it was often a turnover (which happened on 30% of his possessions). He proved to be a very good free throw shooter, even under pressure, but did little in the way of creating shots for others or scoring, himself. His defense was generally good, but he was overwhelmed in the first game against UNC. That game against Marshall was a more recent head to head encounter in which Tyler was overwhelmed and Marshall played his best when defended by Tyler. And before you say that Marshall had been given more of a chance to play up until that point, remember that Tyler had been starting for Duke for a few games leading up to that game, including a season high 28 minutes against Maryland followed up by 23 against Wake. That's legit competition (well, Maryland is, anyway), not mopup minutes. I think it's ok for our guys to develop at their own pace. Tyler is a talented player, but this past season he was surrounded by two other players in Curry and Smith (and Irving again by the end of the season) who could do what he did, only better. Tyler has his strengths (on the ball defense is really good) and, honestly, the fact that he got so much playing time, played starters minutes in a number of big ACC games, and even started for a stretch should be viewed as a big accomplishment for someone who wasn't supposed to make much of a contribution this year. I look forward to seeing him develop. However, he definitely got a fair shake this season to show what he could do and I think we, as fans, should realize that patience will be important as we watch his development.

Dev11
04-04-2011, 12:47 AM
Quinn Cook just led the Oak Hill team in scoring against Montrose Christian in the Finals of a National Invitational tournament. He missed a three pointer at the buzzer that would have won the game for Oak Hill. Having watched Quinn lead DeMatha to the Washington D.C.city title and be named Player of the Year in the D.C. Metro area during his junior year, I predict that Quinn will be starting point guard next year for Duke. AND I predict a Nolan Smith level of play very early in his career. This young man is a really good ballplayer.

I've watched Quinn twice, the time his team played Christ School in Cameron, and now this. I don't think he will start next year because he gets far too emotional on the court when things don't go his way, so the college maturity of Tyler and Seth will likely place him at the back of the rotation. After he missed the three at regulation that would have won the game, he missed some other open shots and forced looks in the overtime.

Slightly off-topic, but SF Justin Anderson of Montrose, who committed to Maryland earlier this year, appears to be coming into his own. He made a huge contested three in this game to keep Montrose alive. I think he will be Maryland's best player soon after arriving in 2012 (Williams should be gone by then).

roywhite
04-04-2011, 06:40 AM
One thing I like about Tyler Thornton is his ability to come into the game and hit his foul shots. He shot nearly 84% from the line this season.

In the games I saw over the weekend, Quinn Cook also shot well from the line.

sagegrouse
04-04-2011, 08:41 AM
One thing I like about Tyler Thornton is his ability to come into the game and hit his foul shots. He shot nearly 84% from the line this season.

In the games I saw over the weekend, Quinn Cook also shot well from the line.

K seems to like Tyler's warrior mentality. Remember the beatdown at MSG aginst St. John's? Well, Tyler didn't go quietly. In a game where Duke seemd slow and lethargic, he stood out by his pugnacious manner. Five fouls in nine minutes, I believe, and these weren't touch fouls. One was a technical. It was the main reason Tyler moved into the starting lineup for the next three games.

The challenge for Tyler is his offensive productivity. I believe his defense was very good. In fact, that would be enough to get him lots of minutes next year. But to start, I believe he must be a much better distributor and scorer.

sagegrouse

MCFinARL
04-04-2011, 07:43 PM
The good news is, both Tyler Thornton and Quinn Cook will bring some valuable skill sets to next year's team, and we have a coaching staff that should be able to figure out how to use those skill sets effectively.

geraldsneighbor
04-13-2011, 10:40 PM
I'm just breaking tons of twitter news tonight. Along with KI tweeting he could return to Duke, @ndotsmitty tweeted that #2 is ready for Quinn Cook next year.

darjum
04-13-2011, 10:55 PM
What works in Tyler's favor over Quinn's is that defensively we know what Tyler can do. Quinn will have to prove to the coaching staff that he wonít be a defensive liability. Plus if we assume Seth and Austin will handle the majority of ball handling duties (yes I too cringed every time I watched Tyler dribble under pressure) then Tyler should see some early minutes before Quinn. I donít believe that on opening night either will be a starter though, far too much competition for that. However if Quinn ticks all the boxes by mid year and neither Seth or Austin works as a facilitator for others on offence then Quinn may get the nod; no way K ever trusts Tyler to be the offensive facilitator (turnover city).

OZZIE4DUKE
04-13-2011, 10:58 PM
I'm just breaking tons of twitter news tonight. Along with KI tweeting he could return to Duke, @ndotsmitty tweeted that #2 is ready for Quinn Cook next year.
Guess that means it's not going to be retired. Unless that telling Smitty that Tyler will wear #2 is a diversion so retiring it will be a surprise when it's announced at some later time... :cool:

licc85
12-19-2011, 08:08 PM
I understand that the biggest question for 2012 is Kyrie's decision to go pro or stay at Duke. Assuming he goes pro, which I think is the most likely scenario, we would have a hole in our lineup at the point guard position. Lets take a look at our options for that spot:

Seth Curry - Decent but not great ball handler, not the quickest or fastest guy, great shooter, does not have great size, good ball pressure on D, VERY intelligent on both ends, needs to work on his ability to slash and make plays.

Seth is just more naturally fit to play the 2 guard role. He plays great off the ball running around screens to get open for threes. He can also occasionally get his man in the air or make a nice move o get into the lane to make a play, but his game is spotting up for open jumpers.

Tyler Thornton - Excellent defender, plays all out all the time, not the best athlete, surprisingly good court vision, decent shooter, but not reliable from long range, makes some poor decisions with the ball sometimes, decent ball handler

Tyler is an excellent defender off the bench, he makes plays with his energy and hustle, but just isn't quite ready to start yet.

Quinn Cook (my observations from high school and all start games such as elite 24, etc.) - Actually more athletic than advertised, still not a world class athlete or have great size, but a VERY good college athlete, very quick, very fast with the ball, pass first mentality, streaky shooter who sometimes takes ill-advised shots, has great handles, good court vision, gets teammates involved constantly, excellent on the ball defender.

well . . I may have played Quinn up a bit more than intended, but it seems like a no brainer to me to have quinn come off the bench to start the year, but to groom him so that he can come in and start sometime during the ACC schedule.

Are we so worried about Kyrie's decision that we fail to see what a good point guard we have coming in? Quinn comes to Duke with relatively no hype compared to his future teammate Austin Rivers, but is one of the smartest, craftiest players at his position. He obviously doesnt have the physical tools of a guy like Marquis Teague or the God-given talent of a guy like Kyrie, but I think he's just as good if not better than a similar player such as Kendall Marshall. Isn't that just fine for what we need at that position next year? Our leading scorers will be Austin, Seth, and Ryan in some order, and I'm confident that quinn can get those guys the ball in right spots. I think our holes in the frontcourt are a much bigger issue, as well as our overall team defense.

Not to gloat or anything . . . but I just wanted to put it out there for the record that I made this call in March (This is the original post of this thread), and I'm fairly sure about 90% of that post has come to fruition. I may have overestimated Quinn's defensive ability, but he might be on track to crack the starting lineup around the conference schedule time frame.

zack2014
12-19-2011, 08:25 PM
I enjoyed watching Dock play -- especially on D -- and love what I see from TT so far; can't wait to see what he's capable of over the next few years. (Maybe he'll hit a game-winning 3...)


I was skimming through the thread and thought that this was too good to not point out. Now back on topic... I thought Quinn played awesome tonight and I hope he continues to do so, but this was UNCG. Hopefully he has earned more playing time so we can see how he will do in more significant minutes against tougher competition.

licc85
12-19-2011, 08:27 PM
I was skimming through the thread and thought that this was too good to not point out. Now back on topic... I thought Quinn played awesome tonight and I hope he continues to do so, but this was UNCG. Hopefully he has earned more playing time so we can see how he will do in more significant minutes against tougher competition.

LOL nice find. I agree, I still think Quinn needs to show us more against more legit competition, but I think this is a great game for him to start building confidence, and I do think he has that ability to spark our offense. If he does that consistently for the next few games, and plays good D, I don't see why he can't supplant Tyler for the starting role.

mapei
12-19-2011, 08:30 PM
That's what, two weeks away? Have we seen enough of him? I agree he looked great tonight against a terrible UNCG team, and consistently so over the course of a half. But otherwise his minutes have been really limited, at least in the games I've seen.

CDu
12-19-2011, 08:39 PM
Not to gloat or anything . . . but I just wanted to put it out there for the record that I made this call in March (This is the original post of this thread), and I'm fairly sure about 90% of that post has come to fruition. I may have overestimated Quinn's defensive ability, but he might be on track to crack the starting lineup around the conference schedule time frame.

Slow your roll, baby. Slow your roll. This was UNC-G, and it's the first time we've seen him string together more than a few random good plays in a game at Duke. Very glad to see Cook do well, and I hope to see him become a star at Duke. But there are still a few steps to go.

licc85
12-19-2011, 09:00 PM
That's what, two weeks away? Have we seen enough of him? I agree he looked great tonight against a terrible UNCG team, and consistently so over the course of a half. But otherwise his minutes have been really limited, at least in the games I've seen.

Well, to be fair, I said he'd assume a starting role some time DURING the ACC schedule, not to start it out. If he does something good for a couple more games, who knows?


Slow your roll, baby. Slow your roll. This was UNC-G, and it's the first time we've seen him string together more than a few random good plays in a game at Duke. Very glad to see Cook do well, and I hope to see him become a star at Duke. But there are still a few steps to go.

Well, Curry and Thornton were playing against UNC-G tonight, and I didn't see them lighting it up for 14 points. I mean, okay, Quinn had a hot shooting night, but you gotta admit, he looked better handling the ball against pressure than Seth or Tyler did tonight.

hustleplays
12-19-2011, 11:14 PM
Slow your roll, baby. Slow your roll. This was UNC-G, and it's the first time we've seen him string together more than a few random good plays in a game at Duke. Very glad to see Cook do well, and I hope to see him become a star at Duke. But there are still a few steps to go.

I agree with licc85. Quinn's body of work isn't just UNC-G, and the basis for our confidence is not just totaling up "a few random good plays." Watch him! Many of us have coached -- and I respectfully assume that you, CDu, have as well. Don't you sometimes just see great talent? We may be wrong, of course, but that's what some of us see in Quinn. I am fully confident that Quinn will become a great player for Duke [if he stays]. Sooner he gets serious burn time, the sooner he will reach his potential and give this team the PG that it sorely needs. He needs more confidence and he and his team need to become more familiar with each other's tendencies. More sets need to be introduced with Quinn starting them. Can't happen too soon.

Greg_Newton
12-20-2011, 12:15 AM
Still have major doubts about Quinn's readiness to defend against the fastest guards in the country. It's not so much that he's slow, it's that he has to take so many more steps to cover the same amount of ground. If only we could stretch out his caterpillar-size legs about 4 more inches...:p

Seriously though, keep in mind that this was an undersized, undertalented team that Cook couldn't miss against. That's a game custom-tailored for Quinn's skillset.

OZZIE4DUKE
12-20-2011, 07:48 AM
Midway through the second half I commented to devildeac that I think it's time for Quinn to be our starting PG. Granted, TT's defense (on the ball) is better, but QC brings so much more to the offense, and not just scoring. In the first half last night, when he first came in, he threw a couple of lazy passes - although to be fair I think the receivers tried to make lazy catches and were just as much, if not more, at fault, than Quinn (there was a really pretty pass in the first half that Ryan threw to Josh Hairston under our basket that also falls into this category). After the appropriate benching, Quinn relaxed and started showing his game - solid ball handling, good decisions and a couple of gorgeous passes, one to Mason under the basket in the second half comes to mind. And, of course, his shooting. Not just the 3's, but the reverse layup and mid-range jumpers too. These are things we haven't seen from Tyler (other than the 3 point shooting) in a much larger body of work.

We need Tyler to be stellar on defense and bring energy and solid relief at the point when he's in, but on balance I think we'll see more of Quinn as the season goes on.

Devilsfan
12-20-2011, 04:52 PM
I love Quinn. He's so smooth and so easy to like. Capel brought up his defense after the game. Why the negatives after such a strong second half by a much need point guard. I excepted more praise for a 6 of 7 shooting performance.

Dukeface88
12-20-2011, 05:08 PM
Capel brought up his defense after the game. Why the negatives after such a strong second half by a much need point guard.

Because Quinn's defense is what is holding him back from becoming that "much need" point guard. Quinn should get some decent burn in the next couple of games, so it's important that he knows what the coaches are watching for. The more he improves on D, the more minutes he'll play. The coaches are just making sure he doesn't lose sight of that.

Steven43
12-20-2011, 07:03 PM
I agree with licc85. Quinn's body of work isn't just UNC-G, and the basis for our confidence is not just totaling up "a few random good plays." Watch him! Many of us have coached -- and I respectfully assume that you, CDu, have as well. Don't you sometimes just see great talent? We may be wrong, of course, but that's what some of us see in Quinn. I am fully confident that Quinn will become a great player for Duke [if he stays]. Sooner he gets serious burn time, the sooner he will reach his potential and give this team the PG that it sorely needs. He needs more confidence and he and his team need to become more familiar with each other's tendencies. More sets need to be introduced with Quinn starting them. Can't happen too soon.

Agree 100%. Quinn Cook should be starting right now. His point guard skills are vastly superior to anyone else on the roster. He will become a great player at Duke if he gets the PT and the freedom to run the team. I like Tyler's toughness, tenacity and spirit, but his point guard skills are not anywhere close to Quinn's.

-jk
12-20-2011, 07:19 PM
Agree 100%. Quinn Cook should be starting right now. His point guard skills are vastly superior to anyone else on the roster. He will become a great player at Duke if he gets the PT and the freedom to run the team. I like Tyler's toughness, tenacity and spirit, but his point guard skills are not anywhere close to Quinn's.

OK, I'll bite: what are "point guard skills"?

-jk

Gthoma2a
12-20-2011, 07:39 PM
If I may take this one, ability to hit an open man, handle the ball effectively, hit shots and play D to pick up the man/stop the ball without fouling (this last part really hurts Tyler right now). That, and making the best decisions for the offense. He is a leader, and he can do all of these things very well.

The people who insult his ability to defend, he has faster feet than Kendall Marshall, IMO. People kiss that guy's butt all the time for his all around game (they say he can defend well enough to play in the league).

Devilsfan
12-20-2011, 07:41 PM
Guess you haven't seen Craft from tOSU or Marshall from the team down the road. Quinn given PT should be our answer to these two and he doesn't look down at the ball when he's dribbling like some we have used at the point this year.

jimsumner
12-20-2011, 09:59 PM
Agree 100%. Quinn Cook should be starting right now. His point guard skills are vastly superior to anyone else on the roster. He will become a great player at Duke if he gets the PT and the freedom to run the team. I like Tyler's toughness, tenacity and spirit, but his point guard skills are not anywhere close to Quinn's.

Or maybe he'll get the PT and the freedom to run the team when he's ready to be a great player.

There's no conspiracy here folks. Cook is improving his game, his conditioning and his confidence and accordingly is playing a larger role on the court. But Duke has 120 minutes on the perimeter to divide amongst Austin Rivers, Seth Curry, Andre Dawkins, Tyler Thornton, Michael Gbinijie and Cook. Everyone wants Cook to play more, everyone wants Silent-G to play more, everyone wants Rivers to continue to develop into an All-ACC caliber player. But the three holdovers are pretty good, too and none of them are making much of a case for playing less.

We knew coming into the season that this team was a work in progress and that development of the rotation would take some time. But I wish we could retire the idea that anyone is being held back for any reason other than their abilities to help the team versus the relative abilities of other players to do the same.

Scorp4me
12-20-2011, 10:07 PM
Quinn looked great playing in the second half of a blowout against UNCG but it's amazing the leaps some of you will make. Now if you've seen something in practice that I haven't then I stand corrected...but then K would stand corrected too. I like Thornton starting, but I like Cook coming off the bench as well. I like Dawkins coming off the bench too. Heck I like our rotation.

And I agree with everything jim just said!

Newton_14
12-20-2011, 11:04 PM
Agree 100%. Quinn Cook should be starting right now. His point guard skills are vastly superior to anyone else on the roster. He will become a great player at Duke if he gets the PT and the freedom to run the team. I like Tyler's toughness, tenacity and spirit, but his point guard skills are not anywhere close to Quinn's.

Based on what exactly?

I loved Quinn's 2nd Half performance last night. He played well in the 2nd Half. Struggled in the first half, but came in after Duke had pulled away and played his best ball of the season. He seems to be improving week over week. That said, he is coming off a pretty significant knee injury. He was pulled out of the Summer League and shut down by the staff due to recurring issues with the knee. He missed all of the games in China, and was not declared 100% until October. Which means he was behind all of the other kids in conditioning, and had a lot of rust to shake off. That on top of being a freshman PG at Duke trying to learn one of the more complicated defenses in the country.

He had a lot of ground to make up with his conditioning, shaking off rust the other players did not have, and learning the system. Combine all of that with the points Jim made about being behind red-shirt junior Seth Curry, and Sophomore Tyler Thornton, along with freshman phenom Austin Rivers.

Quinn has progressed nicely, and will be a really good player for Duke. No doubt he will help this team this year. Already has in fact. K raved about how Quinn handled the last 5 minutes of the Washington game. He has a great skill set. When he learns the defensive scheme's, like when to switch, when to release your man, how to properly communicate he is releasing his man to another teammate, when to rotate to cover the spot on the floor he is supposed to cover, etc, etc his playing time will increase even more.

He's not there yet is the point here. K will start Quinn, when Quinn is ready to take on that role. Of that I am 100% confident in. To say his "PG skills are vastly superior to everyone else on the team" is over the top hyperbole, that is not based on facts. He has the best ball-handling skills on the team, and even coming off the knee injury, he is the fastest player on the team with the dribble, but there is far more that goes into the role the PG on a Duke team plays than those 2 skills alone.

I love the kid and enjoy watching him play, but I do understand that he is not yet ready to be the full time starter. I do suspect that day will come sooner rather than later, and may or may not be this season.

JNort
12-21-2011, 01:30 AM
My first post (Yay!): I love Quinn and really want him to get more minutes. I want him to start but I am not sold on him being ready just yet. How about increase his minutes while taking a few from others (Tyler 3-5 mins and Curry 2-3 mins) and see if he continues to show improvement and if so then give him the nod.

Realistically:
PG- Curry
SG- Tyler
SF- Rivers
PF- Kelly
C- Mason
6- Dawkins
7- Miles
8- Quinn

What I want:
PG- Quinn
SG- Curry
SF- Rivers
PF- Kelly
C- Mason
6- Dawkins
7- Miles
8- Tyler