McDonalds AA skill competition

[_TheFakeJWill_]

I know Rivers will be in the skill competition, 3pt contest and dunk competition. Not sure who else will be :) GO DUKE!

[licc85]

im watching marshall and austin in the dunk contest right now . . not gonna lie, marshall looks less stiff than I thought he would be. I wouldnt be shocked if he actually has more of an offensive game than MP1 and MP2.

[stillcrazie]

I know Rivers will be in the skill competition, 3pt contest and dunk competition. Not sure who else will be :) GO DUKE!

Cook was in the 3 pt contest and Marshall Plumlee just took part in the dunk contest. Looking forward to seeing Rivers.

[kong123]

you guys are gonna hate PJ Hairston. 3 pt threat, high flyer, and he is full of swagger.

[Duvall]

you guys are gonna hate PJ Hairston. 3 pt threat, high flyer, and he is full of swagger.

Can he shoot, or is like every other highly-touted shooting guard UNC has landed in the last two years?

[licc85]

unfortunately quinn came in second to kyle wiltjer . . . 6'10" white guy who can shoot it . . . i wanna know how UK got him before we found out about him lol

[CajunDevil]

Marshall had two very nice dunks... I'm excited about the three MPs next yr! Also, Quinn Cook has a nice stroke from 3 (finished 2nd in 3 pt contest)

[CajunDevil]

Can he shoot, or is like every other highly-touted shooting guard UNC has landed in the last two years?

Hairston's stroke isn't as good as what UNC currently has (fell apart in the finals of the 3 pt contest)... I know that is not saying much

[licc85]

oh man . . austin came out in the doc rivers hawks jersey and nailed his first dunk for a perfect score . . . what a baller.

[dukelifer]

you guys are gonna hate PJ Hairston. 3 pt threat, high flyer, and he is full of swagger.

Good. There has not been a good UNC bad-boy to really hate in a long time- probably since McCants. Make beating UNC all that more enjoyable.

[dukelifer]

im watching marshall and austin in the dunk contest right now . . not gonna lie, marshall looks less stiff than I thought he would be. I wouldnt be shocked if he actually has more of an offensive game than MP1 and MP2.

He may be better- but is just not strong enough as of yet. But the evidence from his brothers suggest he has the genes to put on muscle with some effort.

[Bluedevil114]

Austin Rivers had some sick dunk attempts. This guy is the real deal. He is long and athletic. That to go along with a ridiculous jumper. He will be exciting to watch.

Please Kyrie come and play with him.

[CajunDevil]

He may be better- but is just not strong enough as of yet. But the evidence from his brothers suggest he has the genes to put on muscle with some effort.

Not strong enough? He looks plenty strong to compete from day one!

[licc85]

He may be better- but is just not strong enough as of yet. But the evidence from his brothers suggest he has the genes to put on muscle with some effort.

MP3 already has something neither of his bros ever did . . . some serious swagger. I could see him becoming a productive 4 year guy who develops into a great leader. It's all about whether or not he decides to develop a reliable back to the basket post game, which MP1 and MP2 for some reason refuse to work on.

[dukelifer]

Not strong enough? He looks plenty strong to compete from day one!

If you saw him in a game- which I did a few weeks back- you could see the weakness in his lower body more easily. Mason was equally impressive dunking in his McDonald's game. Marshall will develop- but lets not put expectations on him like folks did with Mason. Kids take time to develop. Mark it down- Mason will show a quantum improvement next year.

[bl33dblu3]

MP3 robbed on the dunk contest.

[licc85]

wow what a joke, marshall didnt miss a single dunk, nash missed at least 3 on every attempt, and he ends up with the win??? bunch of BS

[Bluedog]

Plumlee came in second with a 122 to LeBryan Nash's 124 in the slam dunk contest. However, I think most people would say that Plumlee was by far the best dunker on the night. Not sure how Nash got better marks. PJ Hairston and Austin also made the final four, but both missed one of their dunks so finished well behind.

[OZ]

I don't usually watch these exibitions, so, I have no basis on which to judge. But who were the judges? The worse kid in the competition won. Marshall looked stunned as did Nash. Geeeeeeeeeeeeez! That was really bad.

[Duke: A Dynasty]

Is there a link to the results or highlights of the competition? I am at work and cant watch tv right now.

[_TheFakeJWill_]

there was a tweet today (cant seem to find it now) where Rivers was pleading Irving to come back....

Plumlee got robbed first off and OMG i love the swagger these guys are bringing in next year. I have a feeling they are gonna be a cocky fun bunch to watch. Rivers is the real deal!

i call Rivers as "Real deal Rivers". is it November yet :(

[Bluedog]

there was a tweet today (cant seem to find it now) where Rivers was pleading Irving to come back....

http://twitter.com/EvanDanielscout/status/52493896772616192


"If you're watching this Kyrie [Irving] please stay." -- Austin Rivers at McDonald's All-American practice

That seems unlike what Austin has said in the past. Basically, he previously said he'd obviously love to play with Kyrie, but he understand it's Kyrie's decision and he's got to do what's best for him.

[Duke: A Dynasty]

I don't usually watch these exibitions, so, I have no basis on which to judge. But who were the judges? The worse kid in the competition won. Marshall looked stunned as did Nash. Geeeeeeeeeeeeez! That was really bad.

Kind of like when Steve Smith gave Mason a 6 when every one else gave him a 9. I think all the judges are celebrities or athletes

[Newton_14]

MP3 already has something neither of his bros ever did . . . some serious swagger. I could see him becoming a productive 4 year guy who develops into a great leader. It's all about whether or not he decides to develop a reliable back to the basket post game, which MP1 and MP2 for some reason refuse to work on.

Marshall is a natural back to the basket player, while Mason and Miles are more face up players. That said, I really don't understand why people make comments like this. College Players work on their games year round, and during the season spend lots of time in practice with their coaches working on their games.

We as fans do not see any of that work. So how then could any of us know what Miles and Mason are, or are not working on during those gazillion hours spent in the gym? One of the announcers in a late-season game, stated that Wojo had been working with Mason on the little jumphook a lot in practices and Mason was starting to get more comfortable at it. Mason then had some moderate success in games down the stretch with that move. Miles also has a nice little jumphook on the right block as well.

Not trying to bust your chops, I just feel it is unfair to make a comment like that. I doubt either one of them "refuse to work on" any skills that the coaching staff asks them to work on. Lack of success does not mean a player is not working on a certain area of his game.

Back to MP3, one good thing is, like Mason, MP3 has great length. He is going to be a very good shotblocker. He does need to add weight and strength and hopefully he can fill out like his brothers. I had a chance to see him at Central last summer and he is very comfortable posting up and has good moves down on the block. He may not wow anyone early on, but he should be a really solid 4 year player who will have a chance to be really good as he fills out and matures.

[licc85]

Marshall is a natural back to the basket player, while Mason and Miles are more face up players. That said, I really don't understand why people make comments like this. College Players work on their games year round, and during the season spend lots of time in practice with their coaches working on their games.


I said that because up till this point, our biggest weakness this year was lack of post production from our bigs. It was obviously meant to be sarcastic . . . of course they are working on their post games, it would retarded if they werent.

on a different note, quinn looks to have some serious leadership qualities as well. I hope he stays 4 years and becomes the kind of leader Nolan was.

[uh_no]

im watching marshall and austin in the dunk contest right now . . not gonna lie, marshall looks less stiff than I thought he would be. I wouldnt be shocked if he actually has more of an offensive game than MP1 and MP2.

Mason looked great when he was a 3 ball dunk away from winning the contest too....I'm not sure there's any correlation between dunking and offensive ability.

[licc85]

Mason looked great when he was a 3 ball dunk away from winning the contest too....I'm not sure there's any correlation between dunking and offensive ability.

thats why i said I wouldnt be shocked instead of . . OMG he's gonna be WAY better.

One of the announcers (I think our own Jay Williams) compared Quinn and Austin to Johnny D and Tommy Amaker. Those are some ridiculously lofty expectations compared to what I said.

[roywhite]

Marshall got totally robbed in the dunk contest. He had a lead going into the finals and had a solid 2nd dunk, but lost to LeBryan Nash who had a very plain 2nd dunk.

Not that the dunk contest means a lot, but this was on the order of East German judges in the Olympics.

Nice to see Quinn, Austin, and Marshall in action. Next, indeed.

[meloveduke]

for those that misssed it like me, it is being rerun on espnu at 12est(midnight tonight)

[Vincetaylor]

you guys are gonna hate PJ Hairston. 3 pt threat, high flyer, and he is full of swagger.

You mean a poor man's Austin Rivers?

[devildeac]

you guys are gonna hate PJ Hairston. 3 pt threat, high flyer, and he is full of swagger.

Hope nobody can guard him either, just like no one could guard Bullock. (Hope he recovers from his knee surgery.)

[devildeac]

you guys are gonna hate PJ Hairston. 3 pt threat, high flyer, and he is full of swagger.


Austin Rivers had some sick dunk attempts. This guy is the real deal. He is long and athletic. That to go along with a ridiculous jumper. He will be exciting to watch.

Please Kyrie come and play with him.

Ooh, hopefully another Duke player for the heels to hate:cool::D.

[Newton_14]

I said that because up till this point, our biggest weakness this year was lack of post production from our bigs. It was obviously meant to be sarcastic . . . of course they are working on their post games, it would retarded if they werent.

on a different note, quinn looks to have some serious leadership qualities as well. I hope he stays 4 years and becomes the kind of leader Nolan was.

Sorry, I missed the sarcasm. Not sure that was our biggest weakness, but that is another story. Our offense was just not designed to use post-up moves very often.

I have only seen Quinn in the one game that was on TV against MP3. He seems to have a very good handle and good shot. If he is a natural leader, that's even better. I would love to see him stay 4 years as well. Any thoughts on how good a defender he is?

If we get the Daniels kid, a the 2011 Class will be pretty darn strong.

[Kedsy]

I said that because up till this point, our biggest weakness this year was lack of post production from our bigs.

According to Pomeroy, our offense was one of the five best in the country. It's hard to see how a lack of post production could be considered our "biggest weakness."


If we get the Daniels kid, a the 2011 Class will be pretty darn strong.

I think it's pretty strong whether we get Daniels or not.

[Double DD]

Back to MP3, one good thing is, like Mason, MP3 has great length. He is going to be a very good shotblocker. He does need to add weight and strength and hopefully he can fill out like his brothers. I had a chance to see him at Central last summer and he is very comfortable posting up and has good moves down on the block. He may not wow anyone early on, but he should be a really solid 4 year player who will have a chance to be really good as he fills out and matures.

Marshall actually has well below average length for a big man. He measured out with only a 6'9" wingspan despite being just under 7'0" feet without shoes. He'll definitely need to have good instincts to continue to be a shot blocker in college.

And also since there's been some comparison of the brothers earlier in the thread, here are their high school stats their respective senior years for whatever it's worth.

Miles 15.8 PPG 6.9 RPG 2.5 BPG
Mason 15.3 PPG 10.1 RPG 2.5 BPG 3.3 APG
Marshall 11.5 PPG 10.3 RPG 2.5 BPG 1.5 APG

[moonpie23]

you guys are gonna hate PJ Hairston. 3 pt threat, high flyer, and he is full of swagger.

swagger? like reggie bullock swagger? like reggie smart mouth trash talking bullock? like... THAT kind of swagger?

man, maybe he can back it up a bit better......I'm not hating on him right now...

[magjayran]

You mean a poor man's Austin Rivers?

Teehee

In fairness, although Hairston didn't light it up in the finals, everything I've read about the guy says he's a lights out shooter. He also seems to have a very quick release. He could be trouble.

I was impressed with Quinn Cook even if he came in second.

[Saratoga2]

Marshall actually has well below average length for a big man. He measured out with only a 6'9" wingspan despite being just under 7'0" feet without shoes. He'll definitely need to have good instincts to continue to be a shot blocker in college.

And also since there's been some comparison of the brothers earlier in the thread, here are their high school stats their respective senior years for whatever it's worth.

Miles 15.8 PPG 6.9 RPG 2.5 BPG
Mason 15.3 PPG 10.1 RPG 2.5 BPG 3.3 APG
Marshall 11.5 PPG 10.3 RPG 2.5 BPG 1.5 APG

I looked at the McDonalds official site yesterday. They listed Marshall at 6'10" and Austin at 6'3". Clearly something could be wrong with these as both kids appear larger than those indicate. Is there a link for the official measurements?

[Saratoga2]

The following is a copy of the rosters taken from the McDonald's Site. If it is not permitted to copy it, please kill.



Boys Alphabetical Roster
EAST TEAM
Name Pos Hgt High School (Hometown) College
Brad Beal G 6-5 Chaminade College Prep, MO (St. Louis, MO) Florida
Chane Behanan F 6-7 Bowling Green, KY (Bowling Green, KY) Louisville
Kentavious Caldwell-Pope G 6-5 Greenville, GA (Greenville, GA) Georgia
Michael Carter-Williams G 6-5 St. Andrew’s, RI (Barrington, RI) Syracuse
Rakeem Christmas F 6-10 Academy of the New Church, PA (Bryn Athyn, PA) Syracuse
Quinn Cook G 6-0 Oak Hill Academy, VA (Mouth of Wilson, VA) Duke
Michael Gilchrist F 6-7 St. Patrick, NJ (Elizabeth, NJ) Kentucky
P.J. Hairston G/F 6-6 Hargrave Military Academy, VA (Chatham, VA) North Carolina
James McAdoo F 6-8 Norfolk Christian, VA (Norfolk, VA) North Carolina
Johnny O’Bryant III C 6-10 Eastside, MS (Cleveland, MS) LSU
Marshall Plumlee F/C 6-10 Christ School, NC (Arden, NC) Duke
Shannon Scott G 6-2 Milton, GA (Alpharetta, GA) Ohio State
Head Coach: Bob Cimino, Mt. Vernon, NY (Mt. Vernon High School)
Asst. Coach: Brian Pritchett, Mt. Vernon, NY (Mt. Vernon High School)

WEST TEAM
Name Pos Hgt High School (Hometown) College
Khem Birch F/C 6-9 Notre Dame Prep, MA (Fitchburg, MA) Pittsburgh
Wayne Blackshear G/F 6-5 Morgan Park, IL (Chicago, IL) Louisville
Anthony Davis F/C 6-9 Perspectives Charter, IL (Chicago, IL) Kentucky
Branden Dawson G/F 6-5 Lew Wallace, IN (Gary, IN) Michigan State
Myck Kabongo G 6-1 Findlay Prep, NV (Henderson, NV) Texas
LeBryan Nash F 6-7 Lincoln, TX (Dallas, TX) Oklahoma State
Austin Rivers G 6-3 Winter Park, FL (Winter Park, FL) Duke
Marquis Teague G 6-1 Pike, IN (Indianapolis, IN) Kentucky
Adonis Thomas G/F 6-7 Melrose, TN (Memphis, TN) Memphis
Amir Williams C 6-10 Detroit Country Day, MI (Beverly Hills, MI) Ohio State
Kyle Wiltjer F 6-10 Jesuit, OR (Portland, OR) Kentucky
Cody Zeller F 6-10 Washington, IN (Washington, IN) Indiana
Head Coach: Gene Pingatore, Westchester, IL. (St. Joseph High School)
Asst. Coach: Bill Riley, Westchester, IL. (St. Joseph High School)
Asst. Coach: Daryl Thomas, Westchester, IL. (St. Joseph High School)

[stillcrazie]

unfortunately quinn came in second to kyle wiltjer . . . 6'10" white guy who can shoot it . . . i wanna know how UK got him before we found out about him lol

Because we already have a 6'11" white guy who won the contest two years ago...

[stillcrazie]

SportsCenter Top 10 plays: #6 Marshall's dunk, #1 Rivers's dunk! GO DUKE!!!

[Duke: A Dynasty]

According to Pomeroy, our offense was one of the five best in the country. It's hard to see how a lack of post production could be considered our "biggest weakness."



I think it's pretty strong whether we get Daniels or not.

In case anyone on tis topic has not checked the actual recruiting topis on Mr. Daniels here is how we are connected to him

Greg Spatola and Andy Borman

"Greg Spatola is the director of basketball operations at IMG, meaning he works in the same office as Borman. Greg Spatola is also the younger brother of Chris Spatola, Duke's director of basketball operations. Chris is married to Jamie, the daughter of Coach K."

"Andy Borman, a native of Illinois, was a walk-on guard who earned a national championship ring with the Duke Blue Devils. He's an alum at IMG Academy and last June, Borman was named the basketball director at IMG Academy, the current residence of Daniels.
Borman, like Coach Mike Krzyzewski is a native of Illinois. Heck, it's better than that, he's the cousin of Jamie Spatola which makes him the nephew of Coach K."

Link: http://www.imgacademies.com/basketba...-daniels/1039/

[burns15]

MP3 already has something neither of his bros ever did . . . some serious swagger. I could see him becoming a productive 4 year guy who develops into a great leader. It's all about whether or not he decides to develop a reliable back to the basket post game, which MP1 and MP2 for some reason refuse to work on.

You are right, that must be the problem...they just refuse to work on it at all, even when k tells them to... Are you insane? You don't think they want to establish a go to post move...it ain't that easy man!

[DMV2434]

Here (http://www.ballislife.com/video/2011-mcdonalds-all-american) is a video of the dunk contest showing all of Marshall and Austin's dunks.

[Kedsy]

Here (http://www.ballislife.com/video/2011-mcdonalds-all-american) is a video of the dunk contest showing all of Marshall and Austin's dunks.

Not sure how Nash won based on this video. Marshall definitely has the family hops; on one of his dunks, it looked like the top of his head was higher than the rim.

[duke09hms]

Did Austin compete in the 3 pt. contest?

[DMV2434]

Did Austin compete in the 3 pt. contest?

No he didn't, Quinn was in it and finished second.

[Wander]

According to Pomeroy, our offense was one of the five best in the country. It's hard to see how a lack of post production could be considered our "biggest weakness."


What? Other than maybe (defensive) rebounding, lack of post production was easily our biggest weakness. I don't understand how anyone who watched Duke all year can argue otherwise, or why that's anywhere near a controversial thing to say. For god's sake, Nolan outscored Miles, Mason, Ryan, and Josh by himself on the entire year.

[UrinalCake]

Good. There has not been a good UNC bad-boy to really hate in a long time- probably since McCants.

Wow, really? You must have gotten over the whole Harrison Barnes thing a lot faster than most everyone else around here 8-)

[Kedsy]

What? Other than maybe (defensive) rebounding, lack of post production was easily our biggest weakness. I don't understand how anyone who watched Duke all year can argue otherwise, or why that's anywhere near a controversial thing to say. For god's sake, Nolan outscored Miles, Mason, Ryan, and Josh by himself on the entire year.

If you don't need the points, it's not a weakness. We scored plenty of points and were very efficient doing so. Who cares who outscored whom?

In my opinion, our biggest weakness was defensive inconsistency, and it isn't even close -- all of our losses involved major defensive breakdowns.

[Wander]

In my opinion, our biggest weakness was defensive inconsistency, and it isn't even close -- all of our losses involved major defensive breakdowns.

According to Pomeroy, our defense was one of the ten best in the country. It's hard to see how a lack of defensive consistency could be considered our "biggest weakness." :)

[Kedsy]

According to Pomeroy, our defense was one of the ten best in the country. It's hard to see how a lack of defensive consistency could be considered our "biggest weakness." :)

I see the smilie, but Pomoery measures efficiency, not consistency. If we played defense against Arizona like we did in the ACC final, we'd probably still playing. If we played consistently hard on defense in every game, we'd be pretty close to undefeated.

[loran16]

Jonathan Givony of Draftexpress (@DraftExpress) had a number of tweets on Marshall Plumlee today:

"Player with the biggest gap beween how he looks (to me) and where he's ranked has to be Marshall Plumlee. Not top-50? Looks elite to me. "

"Would never argue w/you, but based on what I'm seeing here, he's got some amazing tools. RT @DaveTelep: Marshall Plumlee is top 40 on ESPN."

" Why I like Marshall Plumlee- Freakishly athletic 7-footers w/strong intangibles, a high bball IQ and intriguing skills don't grow on trees. "

"Body is starting to fill out very nicely RT @ACCSports: How has Plumlee handled physical play down low? Big knock was lack of strength, iirc"

[Wander]

I see the smilie, but Pomoery measures efficiency, not consistency. If we played defense against Arizona like we did in the ACC final, we'd probably still playing. If we played consistently hard on defense in every game, we'd be pretty close to undefeated.

Just like Pomeroy measures overall offense in that top 5 number you cited, not a breakdown of guards vs wings vs posts.

Anyway, I mostly agree in the case of Arizona, so I'm not going to argue with that, except to say that I don't think playing "hard" on defense was the problem. More like playing smart on defense, and in the case of Singler, playing with foul trouble on defense (combined with Arizona just hitting tough shots).

[roywhite]

If you don't need the points, it's not a weakness. We scored plenty of points and were very efficient doing so. Who cares who outscored whom?

In my opinion, our biggest weakness was defensive inconsistency, and it isn't even close -- all of our losses involved major defensive breakdowns.

Gotta agree with this assessment.

St. John's, FSU, VaTech, and then AZ all seemed able to penetrate our defense and either finish at the rim or hit open shots. Each team seemed to have an advantage in athleticism, and each reached a super level of intensity and confidence when things started rolling in their direction. Frankly, at times, Duke didn't seem to fight back strongly enough or ratchet up the defense.

Each of these losses also involved a passionate, largely hostile crowd. Not to be simplistic, but teams and opposing fans love to beat Duke. Athletic, emotional teams that were playing well....we weren't able to stop them.

[J4Kop99]

I was shocked to see how athletic Marshall was... he threw down some monster dunks, definitely should have won based on what I saw.


With that said, being a great dunker does not necessarily mean anything when it comes to actual gameplay. I hope he is big enough(strength wise) to play down low, cause the athletecism is clearly there.

And I know Austin is "the guy" in our recruiting class but I also think people need to start recognizing Quinn Cook. I think he is going to be a very important piece in the years to come. I like the way he plays, he seems to have confidence and I think he understands the game. Even if Kyrie doesn't return, which I don't think he will, we will have a nice PG rotation with Thornton and cook.

[Double DD]

I looked at the McDonalds official site yesterday. They listed Marshall at 6'10" and Austin at 6'3". Clearly something could be wrong with these as both kids appear larger than those indicate. Is there a link for the official measurements?

That measurement was from the NBPA camp last year. Marshall was 6'11.5" in bare feet. The McDonalds game usually doesn't release measurements but some of the other all-star games should.

And for everyone's perusal I've collected some tweets about the Duke guys at the practices so far. Rivers is on West, Plumlee and Cook on East as a reminder.


Dave Telep
Two words. Austin Rivers. When he's cooking like he is today u just sit back and watch.

DraftExpress
Marshall Plumlee's body has filled out substantially since the last time I saw him. Really getting up floor well. Showing a lot of bounce.

West team side of practice feels like social hour. Guys joking around, chit-chatting. Intensity level hovering around zero.

Coach pleading w/Austin Rivers & Marquis Teague on bench "I just want to run a couple of sets, just in case." They've been pretty shot-happy

Adonis Thomas, Wiljter, Dawson. RT @ZacharyWLambert: Any exceptions on the West team social hour? Rivers, Nash, Wiltjer, etc?

Player with the biggest gap beween how he looks (to me) and where he's ranked has to be Marshall Plumlee. Not top-50? Looks elite to me.

Would never argue w/you, but based on what I'm seeing here, he's got some amazing tools. RT @DaveTelep: Marshall Plumlee is top 40 on ESPN.

Why I like Marshall Plumlee- Freakishly athletic 7-footers w/strong intangibles, a high bball IQ and intriguing skills don't grow on trees.

Body is starting to fill out very nicely RT @ACCSports: How has Plumlee handled physical play down low? Big knock was lack of strength, iirc

[Phoenix22]

Marshall was definitely robbed of the slam dunk crown. First, he deserved a much higher score than Nash. A 53 on Marshall's second final round dunk was conspiracy theory low. Also, Nash's two dunks were underwhelming. So he wore a big foam hat? Big deal. It's pretty funny, but the dunk was not spectacular. Also, he clearly used his arm to push of or climb the guy he dunked over. Marshall should have easily won on points alone. Second, the rules clearly stated that no "people or props" could be used. It seems that Nash used both. Congrats to Marshall, too bad Duke gets all the calls!

Marshall also looked a lot bigger and a lot more muscular then he did 1-2 months ago during the game in Cameron. He looks to have put on at least ten pounds of muscle and maybe a few big macs since. I am certainly looking forward to the chance to see all three in the lineup: The Plumlee Skyline!

[Kedsy]

Just like Pomeroy measures overall offense in that top 5 number you cited, not a breakdown of guards vs wings vs posts.

Well, that's clearly true. And I would never posit that our bigs scored a lot of points. My argument would be that where the scoring comes from doesn't affect the overall effectiveness of the offense, so the offensive rating is more important predictor of performance, whether the scoring came from Nolan or our big men or someone else. While an inconsistent defense can lead to surprising losses even if the overall rating is strong.

[Faison1]

If you don't need the points, it's not a weakness. We scored plenty of points and were very efficient doing so. Who cares who outscored whom?

In my opinion, our biggest weakness was defensive inconsistency, and it isn't even close -- all of our losses involved major defensive breakdowns.

A couple of bones to pick:

1. I have to agree with Charles Barkley, in that he will favor a team that's able to hit a layup over a team that needs a jumpshot.

2. We can rip UNC for not being able to shoot the 3-ball, but not question our own team for lack of low-post scoring?

But:

3. I agree that our defense was lacking at certain points in the season.

[licc85]

You are right, that must be the problem...they just refuse to work on it at all, even when k tells them to... Are you insane? You don't think they want to establish a go to post move...it ain't that easy man!

It's actually extremely ironic that you used sarcasm in your post and yet failed to detect it in my post.

once again, for those who selectively read posts:


I said that because up till this point, our biggest weakness this year was lack of post production from our bigs. It was obviously meant to be sarcastic . . . of course they are working on their post games, it would retarded if they werent.

on a different note, quinn looks to have some serious leadership qualities as well. I hope he stays 4 years and becomes the kind of leader Nolan was.

I would also like to emphasize that we were outrebounded 25-9 in the 2nd half against Arizona. That would have never happened with Zoubs and Lance in there. As much as I like the Plumlees, they just dont seem to WANT it as much, and both Miles and Mason have relatively low basketball IQ when it comes to positioning on defense and boxing out for rebounds. They just don't have the hustle and heart that a guy like Lance Thomas always brought to the court. A guy who is as big and athletic as Mason should easily be averaging double digit rebounds, but he just doesnt have a nose for the ball like guys we had in the past. Although some of these rebounding issues are clearly due to lack of upper body strength. MASON GET IN THAT WEIGHT ROOM RIGHT NOW.

If you go back and rewatch some of our games this year, and just watch mason and miles on defense, thess guys make ALOT of mistakes. I'm serious. Mason often makes up for defensive mistakes with his sheer athleticism, but I wish he would just play smart defense. I seriously hope they get their heads on straight next year.

Also, back to Marshall, he looks alot stronger than either of his brothers did at this point in his high school career. It seems that he has really taken to putting on weight and gaining strength early. Just look at his arms and overall physique in that dunk contest. Mason did NOT look like that in his McD's AA game. Maybe marshall has learned from Mason's struggles at Duke and taken it upon himself to be better prepared for the rigors of playing as a big man in the ACC. (These are all conjectures, so don't jump down my throat again)

[Kedsy]

A couple of bones to pick:

1. I have to agree with Charles Barkley, in that he will favor a team that's able to hit a layup over a team that needs a jumpshot.

2. We can rip UNC for not being able to shoot the 3-ball, but not question our own team for lack of low-post scoring?

But:

3. I agree that our defense was lacking at certain points in the season.

Well, first of all, I never ripped UNC for not being able to shoot the 3-ball, although I could mention their offensive efficiency is 40th in the country while Duke's is 4th. And being "able to hit a layup" is very different from having a back-to-the-basket scorer. Duke was 17th in the nation in 2-point FG% this season. We hit plenty of layups.

[Faison1]

Well, first of all, I never ripped UNC for not being able to shoot the 3-ball, although I could mention their offensive efficiency is 40th in the country while Duke's is 4th. And being "able to hit a layup" is very different from having a back-to-the-basket scorer. Duke was 17th in the nation in 2-point FG% this season. We hit plenty of layups.

When I said "We", I meant the collective DBR Board, so I apologize.

Yes, we had some really good penetrators this year, but it's obvious to everyone in the World (again I am exaggerating) that if Duke has a weakness, it's front court scoring. My UNC friend attended the UNC game at CIS, and his first question to me after the game was "what's the matter with your front court?"

I'm no scientist, but I'm guessing our efficiency numbers are helped by the fact we get 3 points instead of 2 many times down the court. And UNC's is affected because they can't hit an outside shot.

[roywhite]

When I said "We", I meant the collective DBR Board, so I apologize.

Yes, we had some really good penetrators this year, but it's obvious to everyone in the World (again I am exaggerating) that if Duke has a weakness, it's front court scoring. My UNC friend attended the UNC game at CIS, and his first question to me after the game was "what's the matter with your front court?"

I'm no scientist, but I'm guessing our efficiency numbers are helped by the fact we get 3 points instead of 2 many times down the court. And UNC's is affected because they can't hit an outside shot.

Well, hitting shots that are worth 50% more than "regular" shots is a good thing, and offensive efficiency takes that into account. The 3-pt goal is a major part of how we keep score in this game.

I'll go along with Kedsy; our front court scoring was not a big problem, likely not more of a problem than in 2010 when we the national championship. Our fatal flaw was on defense against selected teams.

[OldPhiKap]

I'm no scientist, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. And I know that when we give up 90+ points in a game, odds are we lose.

[Faison1]

I'll go along with Kedsy; our front court scoring was not a big problem, likely not more of a problem than in 2010 when we the national championship. Our fatal flaw was on defense against selected teams.

As I mentioned a few posts back, I agree that our defense was probably one of our major issues this year. I definitely feel like we could have won it all this year, regardless of how efficiently our frontcourt was scoring.

By comparison, UNC was very close to reaching the Final 4, even though they were horrible from 3 point range in both the Kentucky game, and all season long. Don't you think UNC fans are looking forward to getting some shooters so their chances improve?

[Devilsfan]

Maybe it's good Quinn came in second. Maybe he won't take every open three.

[Duvall]

Maybe it's good Quinn came in second. Maybe he won't take every open three.

Yeah, nothing is more frustrating than watching a good shooter take an open three.

[Gthoma2a]

you guys are gonna hate PJ Hairston. 3 pt threat, high flyer, and he is full of swagger.

Really? I don't think you need to worry about us. We are getting Austin, so we don't need to hate. Everything PJ can do, Austin can do better. Austin's swagger is insane too. I love him for showing appreciation to his father with his dunk. It was a great thing, and haters will almost certainly try to make a Ron Artest argument out of it. Besides that, I have already seen a guy who you guys claimed could do what you are selling us about PJ... Reggie Bullock (the guy who looks like Kevin Hart and Chris Tucker's love child, but was relegated to being primarily a jump shooter this year).

[Gthoma2a]

Yeah, nothing is more frustrating than watching a good shooter take an open three.

That is a very good observation. One of the things we love about Austin is that he has no conscience, but he loves creating for his teammates. When he isn't shooting well, I trust Gbinije, Austin, Seth, or Andre to drain the shot when he gets them the ball. That makes me think it isn't a big deal for him to have a bad night (he is a pure PG, not just a scorer; K will keep him making the right decisions).

[COYS]

A couple of bones to pick:

1. I have to agree with Charles Barkley, in that he will favor a team that's able to hit a layup over a team that needs a jumpshot.

2. We can rip UNC for not being able to shoot the 3-ball, but not question our own team for lack of low-post scoring?

But:

3. I agree that our defense was lacking at certain points in the season.

One thing Sir Charles failed to pay attention to, though, is that Arizona was likely more dependent on the jump shot than Duke was. They got 30% of their points from the downtown (a hair higher than Duke and good for 91st in the country) and only scored a shocking 46.3% of their shots from inside the arc, which rated 299th in the country). WIlliams got to the line a lot, which helped their overall efficiency, but Zona was more of a jump shooting team than Duke. Now I'm not disputing that Duke didn't get much scoring from their two primary post players, but I would say that Arizona was definitely as dependent and was most likely more dependent on jump shooting than Duke. Derrick Williams was a very good player who could score in the post, but even he is still more of a face-up player than a standard back to the back guy. The Zona loss was painful and there were many reasons for it, but Barkley's analysis wasn't really all that accurate. And of course, Arizona won primarily because they shot 3's extremely well and owned the boards in the second half. It really had little to do with layups (other than our defense gave up too many).

[Faison1]

One thing Sir Charles failed to pay attention to, though, is that Arizona was likely more dependent on the jump shot than Duke was. They got 30% of their points from the downtown (a hair higher than Duke and good for 91st in the country) and only scored a shocking 46.3% of their shots from inside the arc, which rated 299th in the country). WIlliams got to the line a lot, which helped their overall efficiency, but Zona was more of a jump shooting team than Duke. Now I'm not disputing that Duke didn't get much scoring from their two primary post players, but I would say that Arizona was definitely as dependent and was most likely more dependent on jump shooting than Duke. Derrick Williams was a very good player who could score in the post, but even he is still more of a face-up player than a standard back to the back guy. The Zona loss was painful and there were many reasons for it, but Barkley's analysis wasn't really all that accurate. And of course, Arizona won primarily because they shot 3's extremely well and owned the boards in the second half. It really had little to do with layups (other than our defense gave up too many).

Let me preface what I'm about to say with, I agree with everyone's argument that DEFENSE was the main weakness in the Arizona game, and the St. Johns game as well.

I will also add that most of my and these arguments are to be filed under "1F, 1K, 1L, 1M, and 6A."

I just don't understand why none of us are allowed to question our frontcourt strength. Anytime the subject comes up, you can count on a chorus of posters ripping whoever poses the question, no matter how sane or rational the argument is.

But, I will pose this question: How many of you thought in the back of your minds, "I wonder what's going to happen when we go up against a top-notch frontcourt, like Ohio State, or even Kansas, Pitt, or Syracuse?"

But, I'll drop the subject now. Defense was the main reason we lost.

[COYS]

Let me preface what I'm about to say with, I agree with everyone's argument that DEFENSE was the main weakness in the Arizona game, and the St. Johns game as well.

I will also add that most of my and these arguments are to be filed under "1F, 1K, 1L, 1M, and 6A."

I just don't understand why none of us are allowed to question our frontcourt strength. Anytime the subject comes up, you can count on a chorus of posters ripping whoever poses the question, no matter how sane or rational the argument is.

But, I will pose this question: How many of you thought in the back of your minds, "I wonder what's going to happen when we go up against a top-notch frontcourt, like Ohio State, or even Kansas, Pitt, or Syracuse?"

But, I'll drop the subject now. Defense was the main reason we lost.

I wasn't questioning your statement that post scoring was a weakness. I would love it if Mason/Miles/Kelly became consistent scorers in the post. I was simply pointing out that if Sir Charles had actually checked his facts, he would have realized that betting on the team that takes more layups would have meant betting on Duke. We didn't get beat by a team with a dominant front court. We got beat by a team that had a great night shooting jump shots from all over the court.

[Faison1]

I wasn't questioning your statement that post scoring was a weakness. I would love it if Mason/Miles/Kelly became consistent scorers in the post. I was simply pointing out that if Sir Charles had actually checked his facts, he would have realized that betting on the team that takes more layups would have meant betting on Duke. We didn't get beat by a team with a dominant front court. We got beat by a team that had a great night shooting jump shots from all over the court.

No doubt....their shooting performance was one for their history books. However, I can't remember if Charles was talking specifically about our game, or basketball in general when he made his "lay up" comment.

Sorry to single you out COYS. I was directing my comment at the board.....not you. My apologies.

[Kedsy]

Let me preface what I'm about to say with, I agree with everyone's argument that DEFENSE was the main weakness in the Arizona game, and the St. Johns game as well.

I will also add that most of my and these arguments are to be filed under "1F, 1K, 1L, 1M, and 6A."

I just don't understand why none of us are allowed to question our frontcourt strength. Anytime the subject comes up, you can count on a chorus of posters ripping whoever poses the question, no matter how sane or rational the argument is.

But, I will pose this question: How many of you thought in the back of your minds, "I wonder what's going to happen when we go up against a top-notch frontcourt, like Ohio State, or even Kansas, Pitt, or Syracuse?"

But, I'll drop the subject now. Defense was the main reason we lost.

Here's my issue with people who say things like "our biggest weakness this year was lack of post production from our bigs" (and I know you weren't the person who said it, so I'm not trying to be critical of you) -- the argument takes a strategy decision by Coach K, twists it around, and puts it on the players.

Coach K clearly made the decision to structure his offense primarily around his guards. Was that because the frontcourt was "weak" or because the perimeter was so strong? I'd argue it was the latter. We had three All-American quality players on perimeter, plus two guys who shot 43%+ from three point range.

The one game we chose to make the post an offensive focus, Mason scored 25 points against Marquette. Personally, I thought our overall offense that day was more stagnant than usual and I'm glad we didn't do it every game. But if we had done it every game, Mason (and to a lesser extent Miles and Ryan) would have had much better stats. If Mason had averaged 15 and 8, then despite his somewhat raw back-to-the-basket game, would people be bemoaning our lack of post production? I doubt it, and to me the only reason that didn't happen is because the coach chose not to give him enough touches to do it.

So I think if Coach K thought our lack of post production was a "weakness," he could have done something about it. He chose not to, and that's on him, not the players, although personally I believe K made the correct decision.

[-jk]

Here's my issue with people who say things like "our biggest weakness this year was lack of post production from our bigs" (and I know you weren't the person who said it, so I'm not trying to be critical of you) -- the argument takes a strategy decision by Coach K, twists it around, and puts it on the players.

Coach K clearly made the decision to structure his offense primarily around his guards. Was that because the frontcourt was "weak" or because the perimeter was so strong? I'd argue it was the latter. We had three All-American quality players on perimeter, plus two guys who shot 43%+ from three point range.

The one game we chose to make the post an offensive focus, Mason scored 25 points against Marquette. Personally, I thought our overall offense that day was more stagnant than usual and I'm glad we didn't do it every game. But if we had done it every game, Mason (and to a lesser extent Miles and Ryan) would have had much better stats. If Mason had averaged 15 and 8, then despite his somewhat raw back-to-the-basket game, would people be bemoaning our lack of post production? I doubt it, and to me the only reason that didn't happen is because the coach chose not to give him enough touches to do it.

So I think if Coach K thought our lack of post production was a "weakness," he could have done something about it. He chose not to, and that's on him, not the players, although personally I believe K made the correct decision.

I think another issue with our inside game was the lack of a PG who could reliably get the ball inside to the bigs. What coulda been...

-jk

[Bojangles4Eva]

To change the subject drastically (but more related to the thread topic) isn't the McD's AA game tonight?

I would obviously like to see Austin put on a show, but am more interested in the performance of Cook and Marshall. I saw both for teh first time when they played in Cameron about 2 months ago, and would like to see what they can do in the AA game.

[J4Kop99]

Does anyone know why Deandre Daniels is not in the AA game tonight? Too old? Also, how on earth did Marshall sneak his way in? I'm glad that I get to see him play but I'm surprised he got the invite. Prove 'em wrong Marshallll

[Bluedog]

Does anyone know why Deandre Daniels is not in the AA game tonight? Too old? Also, how on earth did Marshall sneak his way in? I'm glad that I get to see him play but I'm surprised he got the invite. Prove 'em wrong Marshallll

Daniels is a fifth year senior, much like Gbinje. Fifth year seniors are not eligible for the McDonald's AA game, but they are for other games (such as the Jordan Brand classic, where Gbinje was selected...don't see Daniels on that list either though). As to how Marshall got in, the "committee" (or whoever makes the decision) selected him. That's the only explanation I can give...I think it's no secret that players who commit to Duke, UNC, etc. get a bit of a bump in the eyes of the selectors. Marshall is not a top 50 recruit according to many of the recruiting services, but hopefully he proves them wrong. Derrick Williams wasn't a top 150 recruit coming out of high school...

[lotusland]

Really? I don't think you need to worry about us. We are getting Austin, so we don't need to hate. Everything PJ can do, Austin can do better. Austin's swagger is insane too.

I'm going to hate him anyway just for fun.

[SuperTurkey]

I'm going to hate him anyway just for fun.

That's a decision I can stand behind.

+Rep.