PDA

View Full Version : Final Four Discussion Thread



SMO
03-27-2011, 07:54 PM
"they said 'we're going to Houston.' and I said 'giddy up! U-turn!'"

So who's going to play for all the marbles and who's going to win?

rthomas
03-27-2011, 07:57 PM
Go right hand side of the bracket!!!!

SMO
03-27-2011, 08:00 PM
Go right hand side of the bracket!!!!

Experience matters. UCONNvicts v. Butler and I'll take Butler by a deuce.

sandinmyshoes
03-27-2011, 08:01 PM
Go right hand side of the bracket!!!!

please, please, please

devildownunder
03-27-2011, 08:02 PM
Which right now stands for Anybody but Calhoun.

dukegirl
03-27-2011, 08:05 PM
Houston, you have a problem.

Not that the teams are undeserving, but the fan bases may not be quite what you hoped for, in the economic sense.

But who cares? Go Butler.

Matches
03-27-2011, 08:08 PM
I think Butler wins it. Still not sold on VCU despite their performance today.

So Butler vs. either of the renegade programs - I think that's a good matchup for Butler either way.

CDu
03-27-2011, 08:12 PM
I think Butler wins it. Still not sold on VCU despite their performance today.

So Butler vs. either of the renegade programs - I think that's a good matchup for Butler either way.

Butler has shown more consistent ability to compete with the elite. VCU had an easier path to the Final Four than Butler (not that VCU's path was at all easy). I think Butler has a better chance to win it all than VCU. So, GO BUTLER!

OldPhiKap
03-27-2011, 08:13 PM
I am rooting for, in order:

1. Butler.

2. VCU.

3. The game being cancelled.


Can't really think of an outcome other than the above which will satisfy.

weezie
03-27-2011, 08:19 PM
Which right now stands for Anybody but Calhoun.

Or Anybody but Calipari!

And I truly doubt Butler will not take their opponent very, very, very seriously. No "lordly" behavior looking down upon an upstart like we saw today.

Atlanta Duke
03-27-2011, 08:26 PM
Houston, you have a problem.

Not that the teams are undeserving, but the fan bases may not be quite what you hoped for, in the economic sense.

But who cares? Go Butler.

Yep - this was tweeted from CNBC's sports business reporter after the VCU win

Ticket broker told me this will be the 1st final 4 that 3 teams won't be able to sell out their allotments.

http://twitter.com/darrenrovell/status/52107206350475264

Of course the entire State of Kentucky will be heading to Houston next weekend to take up the slack

UConn - UK will draw ratings but CBS cannot be thrilled by the VCU-Butler matchup

CDu
03-27-2011, 08:36 PM
It's crazy. This is a Butler team that lost to Youngstown State (#247 in Pomeroy) less than two months ago. This is a VCU team that lost to Georgia State (#223) and Northeastern (#188) this season. That they are both in the Final Four is just a testament to the madness of the tournament.

dukegirl
03-27-2011, 08:37 PM
I will be tuned in....such a mad, mad tourney. Anybody giving up on it now is crazy! To hell with the tv ratings!

SoCalDukeFan
03-27-2011, 08:39 PM
Yep - this was tweeted from CNBC's sports business reporter after the VCU win

Ticket broker told me this will be the 1st final 4 that 3 teams won't be able to sell out their allotments.

http://twitter.com/darrenrovell/status/52107206350475264

Of course the entire State of Kentucky will be heading to Houston next weekend to take up the slack

UConn - UK will draw ratings but CBS cannot be thrilled by the VCU-Butler matchup

I would assume that the UConnvicts and Ky people will travel in droves.

SoCal

jipops
03-27-2011, 08:39 PM
Butler has shown more consistent ability to compete with the elite. VCU had an easier path to the Final Four than Butler (not that VCU's path was at all easy). I think Butler has a better chance to win it all than VCU. So, GO BUTLER!

You think Kansas was easier than Florida?

NSDukeFan
03-27-2011, 08:41 PM
It's crazy. This is a Butler team that lost to Youngstown State (#247 in Pomeroy) less than two months ago. This is a VCU team that lost to Georgia State (#223) and Northeastern (#188) this season. That they are both in the Final Four is just a testament to the madness of the tournament.

I believe going in that there was about a 2/3 chance that the winner would be one of Duke, OSU, or Kansas (or at least after it was seen that Kyrie would play) and not one of them even made the final four. Ridiculous.

CDu
03-27-2011, 08:43 PM
You think Kansas was easier than Florida?

No, I was thinking beating ODU, Pitt, Wisconsin, and Florida is tougher than beating Kansas, FSU, Georgetown, and USC. I had forgotten the Purdue game, which makes it closer. But Butler beat a #1, a #2, and a #4. VCU beat a #1, a #3, a #6, and two double digit seeds.

moonpie23
03-27-2011, 08:43 PM
now that the dirty work is outta the way..... let's hope for butler or vcu taking the title in some VERY hard core embarrassing moment over uconn.....or better yet, having uk lose and then getting it vacated just like memphis...


booyah....

OldPhiKap
03-27-2011, 08:46 PM
I would assume that the UConnvicts and Ky people will travel in droves.

SoCal

Leaving the state violates probation.

Atlanta Duke
03-27-2011, 08:52 PM
I would assume that the UConnvicts and Ky people will travel in droves.

SoCal

That tweet was posted before UNC-Kentucky but both of those fan bases travel well.

Had to be referring to UConn, VCU and Butler. Since UConn went to Detroit 2 years ago and the women's team did not come close to selling out its arena for the first round of the NCAAs maybe the fan base is tapped out at the moment?

superdave
03-27-2011, 08:54 PM
Butler is the best team left. When they were down 9 last night I kept telling my friends the comeback was imminent. It was. I have confidence in those guys. Such composure.

Rogue
03-27-2011, 08:57 PM
I expect that there will far more serious discussions concerning the NCAA and the NBA, and when players can come out,, or in the future, how long they have to stay.

As wonderful as the March Madness is and the opening Thurs/Friday games are.. the fans eventually want to see # 1 seeds, with a sprinkled cinderella thrown in.
For the last ten years there have been more and more teams from the 5 seeds and below advancing,, many mid majors. Mid majors play very good basketball. They have Jr and Sr on their team that are good.. no, not great,, but good.
Mid majors spring a few upsets in the late Nov games on neutral courts in the islands or some other "holiday" tourney. Major Conference teams do not, and will not, play at VCU George Mason type schools. Why should a Duke or UNC go to George Mason/VCU,, we lose money by giving up a home game.
Usually Coach K will play some games like this,, but it's usually on a neutral court. He likes neutral courts for a good reason,, Not because he's afraid of losing @ VCU ,, but because the NCAA tourney is played on neutral courts.. so that is why Duke doesn't want to go to a VCU or G Mason.. nothing good can come of it.. if you win, you were suppose to, if you lose, then they cry about never leaving Cameron etc..

What I'm getting at is these Mid majors are better today than they were 20 yrs ago. When they finally get a level playing field,, neutral court in the NCAA tourney,, some of the better ones can get on a roll and advance..

I personally would like kids that enter college to play basketball, not be available for the NBA till after their jr year at the earliest.. I know, it's a pipe dream for me,, but I do think the discussion will take place behind closed doors about the mid majors and why they have been more successful over the last few yrs.. just my humble opinion

J4Kop99
03-27-2011, 09:10 PM
The love you guys have for Butler makes me sick.

SMO
03-27-2011, 09:12 PM
The love you guys have for Butler makes me sick.

Why? Who would you rather see win out of the 4?

Newton_14
03-27-2011, 09:25 PM
The love you guys have for Butler makes me sick.


Why? Who would you rather see win out of the 4?


For real. I enjoy watching Butler play and will absolutely be pulling for them to win this. Why on earth would we dislike Butler?

OldPhiKap
03-27-2011, 09:28 PM
For real. I enjoy watching Butler play and will absolutely be pulling for them to win this. Why on earth would we dislike Butler?

My thoughts exactly. They play good, hard, physicial, fundamental ball. With my favorite young coach going.

If not us, I'm happy for it to be them. Certainly not Calipari or Calhoun, both of whom are pariahs.

J4Kop99
03-27-2011, 09:29 PM
Why? Who would you rather see win out of the 4?

You guys worrying about Coach K's legacy need to calm down. Who cares if Calhoun wins another one? I like the way Uconn has played this year and I respect Calhoun... I don't really care about what violations he or his program have had...some of the NCAA rules are ridiculous to begin with.(but thats a topic for another day) Basically, I don't compare every single coach to Coach K. As for the rivalry between Duke and Uconn, it sucks when we lose and it's great when we win... the only team I truly dislike at all times is UNC. Do I still have a bad taste in my mouth from the '04 loss? Of course... but I'm not going to let it effect me now.

I personally do not like Calipari but it would be foolish for anyone to say he hasn't coached an incredible tournament. He has his guys playing like a team and unlike past Calipari-coached players, these guys have class, they play hard and they are fun to watch.

I can honestly care less about VCU. Good for them for proving everyone wrong.

Butler is a great program lead by a up-and-coming coach. However, that doesn't make me want to root for them.


To answer your question:
I don't want anyone to win. To rephrase that, I really don't care who wins. I'm not going to root against someone just because they may take a few steps toward coach k's legacy. Coach K is great, stop worrying about what some UNC fans may argue if Calhoun were to win another one.


As a Duke fan, I absolutely hate it when other fans of opposing teams start to root against Duke after their team has been eliminated. It would be hypocritical for me to do the same thing. Once Duke gets eliminated, I watch the games for fun( or I just don't watch them at all.)... unless UNC is playing.

J4Kop99
03-27-2011, 09:34 PM
My thoughts exactly. They play good, hard, physicial, fundamental ball. With my favorite young coach going.

If not us, I'm happy for it to be them. Certainly not Calipari or Calhoun, both of whom are pariahs.

So it's the coach? Brad Stevens is the reason you like Butler?


I don't know about you... but after watching these games, every single kid on Uconn & Kentucky plays good, hard, physical, fundamental basketball.

Why do you guys get so obsessed with these coaches. We are lucky enough to have one of the greatest, if not the greatest college basketball coach of all time... stop trying to compare everyone to Coach K, they won't match up. In a "sport" that really is a business, you're going to get guys like Calipari, Calhoun, etc.

It's the kids you should be worrying about. They are the ones playing their hearts out.

uh_no
03-27-2011, 09:35 PM
Who cares if Calhoun wins another one? I like the way Uconn has played this year and I respect Calhoun... I don't really care about what violations he or his program have had...some of the NCAA rules are ridiculous to begin with.(but thats a topic for another day)

I'm a pretty hard Uconn fan....but I'm not sure I can be that lenient on the guy. You can't fault the guys on the team who play hard and seem to be good kids (the likes of which this program hasn't seen enough of....) but to say his transgressions is a nonfactor is not right.

J4Kop99
03-27-2011, 09:40 PM
I'm a pretty hard Uconn fan....but I'm not sure I can be that lenient on the guy. You can't fault the guys on the team who play hard and seem to be good kids (the likes of which this program hasn't seen enough of....) but to say his transgressions is a nonfactor is not right.

Alright, it's not a non-factor, but I'm not going to get worked up about things Calhoun has done over the years. For the most part I think he's a good guy who has helped out a lot of kids.


I'm just wondering, but which of Calhoun's violations are you most disappointed in? And can't we agree that certain restrictions that the NCAA currently has in place are a little ridiculous?

dcdrumsinc
03-27-2011, 09:43 PM
I am not as much worried about Coach K's legacy as much as I'm worried how Calhoun or Calipari winning would affect recruiting. If Kentucky wins it all, I expect all 5 start studs to sign with kentucky year after year, knowing a really young team of superstar freshman can all go to the same school and win it all.

turnandburn55
03-27-2011, 09:46 PM
I respect Calhoun... I don't really care about what violations he or his program have had...some of the NCAA rules are ridiculous to begin with.

Yeah, punishing players for stealing laptops from other students' dorm rooms and trying to sell them is positively inane... :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Newton_14
03-27-2011, 09:49 PM
You guys worrying about Coach K's legacy need to calm down. Who cares if Calhoun wins another one? I like the way Uconn has played this year and I respect Calhoun... I don't really care about what violations he or his program have had...some of the NCAA rules are ridiculous to begin with.(but thats a topic for another day) Basically, I don't compare every single coach to Coach K. As for the rivalry between Duke and Uconn, it sucks when we lose and it's great when we win... the only team I truly dislike at all times is UNC. Do I still have a bad taste in my mouth from the '04 loss? Of course... but I'm not going to let it effect me now.

I personally do not like Calipari but it would be foolish for anyone to say he hasn't coached an incredible tournament. He has his guys playing like a team and unlike past Calipari-coached players, these guys have class, they play hard and they are fun to watch.

I can honestly care less about VCU. Good for them for proving everyone wrong.

Butler is a great program lead by a up-and-coming coach. However, that doesn't make me want to root for them.


To answer your question:
I don't want anyone to win. To rephrase that, I really don't care who wins. I'm not going to root against someone just because they may take a few steps toward coach k's legacy. Coach K is great, stop worrying about what some UNC fans may argue if Calhoun were to win another one.


As a Duke fan, I absolutely hate it when other fans of opposing teams start to root against Duke after their team has been eliminated. It would be hypocritical for me to do the same thing. Once Duke gets eliminated, I watch the games for fun( or I just don't watch them at all.)... unless UNC is playing.

Well if it matters, for me personally, I am not pulling AGAINST Uconn or Kentucky. I am pulling for Butler. Kind of hard to watch and not hope one of the teams win. I do not care for the tactics of Calipari (dismissing kids from the team to make room for his new recruits), and I think Calhoun has been poor at following the rules, but I will be the first to tell you both are great coaches. That cannot be denied. I also have nothing against any of their current players.

I just enjoy watching Butler play and maximizing their talents. The underdog factor comes into play as well. If VCU upsets Butler, I will absolutely be pulling for them in the title game.

uh_no
03-27-2011, 09:49 PM
Alright, it's not a non-factor, but I'm not going to get worked up about things Calhoun has done over the years. For the most part I think he's a good guy who has helped out a lot of kids.


I'm just wondering, but which of Calhoun's violations are you most disappointed in? And can't we agree that certain restrictions that the NCAA currently has in place are a little ridiculous?

I do think he's a good guy who has helped out a lot of kids. I'll be the first to say it. The amount he does for charity, and the ends he goes to for these kids, especially ones who have come from troubled backgrounds is phenomenal. He helps out a lot of guys other coaches (K) wouldn't touch with a 39.5' pole (that's nothing against K, its simply the truth).

While I agree that certain restrictions are ridiculous, I find it highly implausible that he didn't know what was going on between Nate Miles, The ex-student manager, and the coahces. The NCAA agreed, hence the sanctions. I would LIKE to believe that he was simply supporting a kid who had had a pretty crappy life growing up (much like I would like to think that way about a stanley robinson....though most people on this board would disagree on both counts vehemently). Whatever his good intentions may have been, it's still unacceptable (in my opinion) to break rules so violently as this program broke the texting rule. It's a pretty simple rules that even most fans are aware of...coaches have limits on texting players. As I said, I would be shocked if Calhoun didn't know this was going on.

In the same breath, I do not discount the difference that Calhoun has made in plenty of kids lives, and what he has meant to the state of Connecticut.

SMO
03-27-2011, 09:56 PM
You guys worrying about Coach K's legacy need to calm down. Who cares if Calhoun wins another one? I like the way Uconn has played this year and I respect Calhoun... I don't really care about what violations he or his program have had...some of the NCAA rules are ridiculous to begin with.(but thats a topic for another day) Basically, I don't compare every single coach to Coach K. As for the rivalry between Duke and Uconn, it sucks when we lose and it's great when we win... the only team I truly dislike at all times is UNC. Do I still have a bad taste in my mouth from the '04 loss? Of course... but I'm not going to let it effect me now.

I personally do not like Calipari but it would be foolish for anyone to say he hasn't coached an incredible tournament. He has his guys playing like a team and unlike past Calipari-coached players, these guys have class, they play hard and they are fun to watch.

I can honestly care less about VCU. Good for them for proving everyone wrong.

Butler is a great program lead by a up-and-coming coach. However, that doesn't make me want to root for them.


To answer your question:
I don't want anyone to win. To rephrase that, I really don't care who wins. I'm not going to root against someone just because they may take a few steps toward coach k's legacy. Coach K is great, stop worrying about what some UNC fans may argue if Calhoun were to win another one.


As a Duke fan, I absolutely hate it when other fans of opposing teams start to root against Duke after their team has been eliminated. It would be hypocritical for me to do the same thing. Once Duke gets eliminated, I watch the games for fun( or I just don't watch them at all.)... unless UNC is playing.

Yup, I've been harping on the legacy for a while now:confused:

I don't see why picking a remaining team to root for is so bad. It is possible to like more than one team and to learn to like a team.

Buckeye Devil
03-27-2011, 10:06 PM
Although I really don't care at this point and did not watch any basketball over the weekend (due to depression, I painted the block walls of my basement this weekend beginning Friday afternoon-just finished a few hours ago), it is hard for me to believe that the UK/UCONN winner will not ultimately win the championship. As much as I hate UCONN, I think that Calipari is a criminal in a coaching suit and I have to go with the Huskies over the Wildcats. Plus, some of the most obnoxious fans are UK fans. I think that VCU is a tough matchup for Butler and would prefer for the winner of that game to make it all the way. But UCONN/UK are rolling right now and an upset by Butler or VCU seems too unlikely.

rsvman
03-27-2011, 10:20 PM
I think VCU is going to beat Butler. Other than Shelvin Mack and Matt Howard, nobody on the Butler team would start over anybody on VCU, IMO.

diveonthefloor
03-27-2011, 10:23 PM
Couple of thoughts:

Does Las Vegas have an over-under on how many weeks it will take UConn or UK to be sanctioned and therefore vacate the title (should either win on Monday?)

Is there an enterprising young reporter out there willing to do the legwork necessary to expose the corruption otherwise known as UK basketball, and compete for a Pulitzer?

OldPhiKap
03-27-2011, 10:36 PM
So it's the coach? Brad Stevens is the reason you like Butler?


I don't know about you... but after watching these games, every single kid on Uconn & Kentucky plays good, hard, physical, fundamental basketball.

Why do you guys get so obsessed with these coaches. We are lucky enough to have one of the greatest, if not the greatest college basketball coach of all time... stop trying to compare everyone to Coach K, they won't match up. In a "sport" that really is a business, you're going to get guys like Calipari, Calhoun, etc.

It's the kids you should be worrying about. They are the ones playing their hearts out.

All the kids are playing their hearts out. But on at least two teams, the coach has been caught cheating and breaking the rules.

That makes a difference to me. Those programs are dirty. But if that doesn't make a difference to you, we will just have to agree to disagree.

And if you've listened to Brad Stevens over the last few years and not been incredibly impressed, I'm not sure what you're watching.

ns7
03-27-2011, 10:44 PM
All the kids are playing their hearts out. But on at least two teams, the coach has been caught cheating and breaking the rules.

That makes a difference to me. Those programs are dirty. But if that doesn't make a difference to you, we will just have to agree to disagree.

And if you've listened to Brad Stevens over the last few years and not been incredibly impressed, I'm not sure what you're watching.

Calipari has never been sanctioned, correct? I know he seems sleazy but nothing has stuck to him yet.

There was an interesting article on him in this past week's SI, something along the lines of: "if you and Calipari are in a dark room that's on fire, find him and follow him because he'll be the first one out."

WiJoe
03-27-2011, 10:48 PM
Couple of thoughts:

Does Las Vegas have an over-under on how many weeks it will take UConn or UK to be sanctioned and therefore vacate the title (should either win on Monday?)

Is there an enterprising young reporter out there willing to do the legwork necessary to expose the corruption otherwise known as UK basketball, and compete for a Pulitzer?

The answers are:

1. No
2. Not likely

dukelifer
03-27-2011, 11:26 PM
Now that we are down to the final four- I was curious to see how the championship has bounced around the major conferences (ACC, Big East, SEC, Big 10, Big 12, Pac 10) since 1991. While there have been other conferences represented in the FF and this year for the first time in that time that two are outside the major conference- the champion has come from the group of 6 conferences. Here is the breakdown

ACC 1991, 1992, 1993, 2001, 2002, 2005, 2009, 2010 - 8 total
Duke (4), UNC (3), Maryland (1)


SEC 1994, 1996, 1998, 2006, 2007 -5 Total
KY (2) , Florida (2), Arkansas (1)


Big East 1999, 2003, 2004 - 3 total
UConn (2), Syracuse (1)

Pac 10 1995, 1997 – 2 total
Arizona (1), UCLA (1)

Big 12 2006 – 1 total
Kansas (1)

Big 10 2000– 1 total
Mich State (1)


It is interesting the both the Big 10 and Big 12 have been recently touted as the best conferences with the best teams going in- but in 20 years have only managed 2 championships between them. Now that the leader - the ACC is out- having been in 16 of the last 20 FF, the two teams from the big 6 that are next in line to get another championship are UConn and KY- each with two championships in the last 20. One of those teams is getting to the final game. Right now, history suggests that the Big East or SEC will get another. Not since UNLV in 1990 has a team outside the major conferences cut down the nets.

VAGentleman05
03-27-2011, 11:41 PM
Calipari has never been sanctioned, correct? I know he seems sleazy but nothing has stuck to him yet.
"

I'm not sure what you mean by "sanctioned," but the guy has had two Final Four appearances vacated. I'd say that qualifies him as a cheater in the first degree.

-bdbd
03-28-2011, 12:43 AM
I'm not sure what you mean by "sanctioned," but the guy has had two Final Four appearances vacated. I'd say that qualifies him as a cheater in the first degree.

Just "lots of smoke." But nobody doubts the existence of those fires somewhere...
Best thing about the left-side-of-the-bracket game next Sat. -- somebody has to lose!!!

Rooting hard the the right-side teams. Since I'm from VA, I'd be happy with VCU, but obviously there is a Butler connection to Duke. My head says U-con versus Butler in the Final, with U-con winning. BUT my heart says :
1. Butler
2. VCU
3. & 4. tie/game cancelled.

:rolleyes:

ns7
03-28-2011, 09:42 AM
I'm not sure what you mean by "sanctioned," but the guy has had two Final Four appearances vacated. I'd say that qualifies him as a cheater in the first degree.

I believe the NCAA has put the blame on the school and not Calipari. I know it's very fishy, but that's the way it has turned out so far.

OldPhiKap
03-28-2011, 09:51 AM
I believe the NCAA has put the blame on the school and not Calipari. I know it's very fishy, but that's the way it has turned out so far.

"Guns don't kill people. People kill people."

(with guns).


You may be technically correct, but I'm not sure that's a distinction with a difference. His actions were what harmed the institutions, IIRC.

davekay1971
03-28-2011, 10:21 AM
The cold, wet, miserable weather around here today is the collective result of the mood of the UNC faithful today as they ponder an eminently winnable final four in which they are not competing.

Which is why, in my world, it's currently 85 and sunny with a light breeze, a mojito in hand, and a stunning view, even though I'm still in Charlotte.

Ah, yes, but there is still evil to be vanquished. And who better to vanquish said evil than those noble Bulldogs from Butler who gave us everything we could handle last year and have already sent Pitt from the Mighty Big East and Florida from the Situational Ethics Conference packing? So, Brad Stevens, you're the man to uphold Truth, Justice, and The American Way against the slime that will be oozing into the championship game from the left side of the bracket.

To quote the Late Great Jimmy V as he addressed his Rutgers U freshman basketball team: "Win it for your God. Win it for your Country. And win it for the Green Bay Packers!"

SMO
03-28-2011, 01:01 PM
I can't believe we're still overanalyzing the S16 and E8 rounds! This should be an interesting weekend to end the season.

brevity
03-28-2011, 02:01 PM
Here's a question with interesting ethical and philosophical ramifications:

Is Rick Pitino still the only head coach to take three different schools to the Final Four?

SuperTurkey
03-28-2011, 02:03 PM
Here's a question with interesting ethical and philosophical ramifications:

Is Rick Pitino still the only head coach to take three different schools to the Final Four?

Technically, yes, but everyone seems to ignore that when reporting on Cal.

OldPhiKap
03-28-2011, 02:04 PM
Here's a question with interesting ethical and philosophical ramifications:

Is Rick Pitino still the only head coach to take three different schools to the Final Four?

No, but the only one who kept them there!

uh_no
03-28-2011, 02:06 PM
Here's a question with interesting ethical and philosophical ramifications:

Is Rick Pitino still the only head coach to take three different schools to the Final Four?

For record keeping purposes, yes. But Calipari had teams at schools he took there...you can't deny that he won the games to get there....the NCAA said it doesn't count though.....theres no banner at memphis or Umass

pfrduke
03-28-2011, 02:10 PM
I think VCU is going to beat Butler. Other than Shelvin Mack and Matt Howard, nobody on the Butler team would start over anybody on VCU, IMO.

I think ODU is going to beat Butler. Other than Shelvin Mack and Matt Howard, nobody on the Butler team would start over anybody on ODU, IMO.

I think Pittsburgh is going to beat Butler. Other than Shelvin Mack and Matt Howard, nobody on the Butler team would start over anybody on Pittsburgh, IMO.

I think Wisconsin is going to beat Butler. Other than Shelvin Mack and Matt Howard, nobody on the Butler team would start over anybody on Wisconsin, IMO.

I think Florida is going to beat Butler. Other than Shelvin Mack and Matt Howard, nobody on the Butler team would start over anybody on Florida, IMO.

Hmmm.....

ncexnyc
03-28-2011, 02:11 PM
I'd love to see Butler win it all. It would quiet some of the naysayers who try to discount our title from last year. Of course I'm being silly to even suggest that, as the haters will hate no matter what facts or figures you throw at them.

HK Dukie
03-28-2011, 02:15 PM
Can I vote against all 4?

Kentucky: Their hate is annoying, plus the 17pt comeback in '98 elite 8.
Uconn: Two championships stolen with non-calls in last 30 seconds of '99 and '04
VCU: They played super dirty against us and anyone who saw that pic of Scheyer's eye can't be a huge VCU fan
Butler: Matt Howard stole our 2011 NCAA Championship with toegate (he stepped on Kyrie)

Vote 'em all out. Can we just cancel the season?

Channing
03-28-2011, 02:19 PM
Can I vote against all 4?

Kentucky: Their hate is annoying, plus the 17pt comeback in '98 elite 8.
Uconn: Two championships stolen with non-calls in last 30 seconds of '99 and '04
VCU: They played super dirty against us and anyone who saw that pic of Scheyer's eye can't be a huge VCU fan
Butler: Matt Howard stole our 2011 NCAA Championship with toegate (he stepped on Kyrie)

Vote 'em all out. Can we just cancel the season?

No he did not. Kyrie's injury was not the result of contact with Matt Howard. Howard was guarding him at the time, but Kyrie's injury was just a fluke.

OldPhiKap
03-28-2011, 02:42 PM
I think ODU is going to beat Butler. Other than Shelvin Mack and Matt Howard, nobody on the Butler team would start over anybody on ODU, IMO.

I think Pittsburgh is going to beat Butler. Other than Shelvin Mack and Matt Howard, nobody on the Butler team would start over anybody on Pittsburgh, IMO.

I think Wisconsin is going to beat Butler. Other than Shelvin Mack and Matt Howard, nobody on the Butler team would start over anybody on Wisconsin, IMO.

I think Florida is going to beat Butler. Other than Shelvin Mack and Matt Howard, nobody on the Butler team would start over anybody on Florida, IMO.

Hmmm.....

Just think how alarmingly unathletic they will be against UConn or KY!


(great post)

uh_no
03-28-2011, 02:43 PM
Just think how alarmingly unathletic they will be against UConn or KY!


(great post)

Amusing, since the 'alarmingly unathletic' comment came when duke played against none other than uconn!

-bdbd
03-28-2011, 02:55 PM
Couple of thoughts:

Does Las Vegas have an over-under on how many weeks it will take UConn or UK to be sanctioned and therefore vacate the title (should either win on Monday?)

Is there an enterprising young reporter out there willing to do the legwork necessary to expose the corruption otherwise known as UK basketball, and compete for a Pulitzer?

Re KY corruption being uncovered... Isn't it pretty well known already? Not much of a Pulitzer-effort research project... :rolleyes:

As for Vegas, I am told that they have UK favored over U-con and Butler favored over VCU, with UK favored to win the championship. Certainly whoever wins on the left-side bracket (UK/U-con) will be heavily favored on Monday. I'll be rooting for the right side.

gumbomoop
03-28-2011, 03:11 PM
Although it's tempting to focus on the remaining ABC-factor, I'd rather comment on the really interesting stories attached to each of the 4 remaining teams. They share at least one common story, too, which is how they all had up-and-down seasons, but are obviously peaking at the very best time.

VCU - Not much explanation needed. Coach seems pretty loose, matching, or encouraging, his players' take-no-prisoners energy. I really have enjoyed their relentless effort. They just run everywhere. They didn't wilt when Kansas made a little run. And the story about how their PG was in the process of transferring back to a D II college in his hometown Orlando area [he played HS with both Nick Calathes and Chandler Parsons] when Grant left to coach Alabama, but was persuaded by Shaka Smart to stay, is pretty good, too. Jamie Skeen, who knew?

Butler - The Butler-mania on this board is actually perfectly understandable. Brad Stevens is both an admirable rep for his university and a terrific coach. Relentless [my favorite attribute in sports] D, every play, every player. It's no coincidence last year's NC was a defensive classic. They lose Hayward, a year early; look pretty discombobulated first half of season, start coming on, but probably have to win their conference tourney to get into the tourney. Howard's last-split-second shot to nip ODU; the amazing end to the Pitt game, surprising dominance of Wisconsin, OT over Fla. Pretty admirable.

UConn - Less admirable in the long-range, perhaps, and lots of unhappy memories for Duke fans. I can't defend Calhoun. But on the court, UConn has pretty much come from nowhere. Starting with the surprising champs at Maui [over UK in the final - go back and look at that boxscore.....], then a bad Feb slump, lost last 2 regular season games, then the amazing 5 days/5 wins in Big East tourney, possibly a bit of luck v. Arizona with 2 silly Derrick Williams fouls. A young team, led by a pretty amazing Kemba - after all, anyone in the same conversation for NPOY with Nolan would have to be amazing, right? Kemba's been clutch-plus.

UK - Can't defend Cal's.... um.... history; but can't deny his X/O. From a run-gun team in '09-'10, the '10-'11 UK is heavily halfcourt. Harrellson story by itself is inspiring, and Cal gets lots of credit for it. UK lost Kanter, and Harrellson emerges from nowhere. No Where. The UK-OSU game was as much a defensive classic as was Duke-Butler NC. Every possession was intense. UNC game pretty exciting, too. Cal can coach, both O and especially D. Knight is a cool customer, very bright kid; and Miller and Liggins have finally contributed, as has Lamb with 3-bombs. UK lost all 4 of its Feb road games, but none since; and more than a few observers think this UK team is a whole lot tougher, because more disciplined, than last year's fellows.

Btw, because both VCU and UConn got an "extra" game this year [VCU played in First Four, and UConn played 5 in Big East], if either gets to the Final, they'll have played 41 games this year, presumably a record.

It's been a great tourney, with the exception of one half of one game. A fascinating, great even, Final Four.

Billy Dat
03-28-2011, 03:36 PM
It is interesting that 4 teams with whom Duke has such interesting recent (relatively) NCAA experience should all be in the Final Four.

In terms of UConn and Kentucky, I find myself not hating them as much as I usually do, perhaps because they were not the traditional powerhouses that they usually are. They also don't seem as cocky. Still, I don't want either or them to win as I don't want Calhoun to have 3 rings and I don't want Calipari to break the seal on a title. As others have said, we compete with both schools for players and I don't want their pitches getting any more polished.

My head wants to root for Butler, but my heart kicks in, thinks about the two tough games we played against them in the past 12 months, and I start rooting against them. I see Matt Howard leveling Singler with that pick, and I see Kyrie limping around after colliding with him, and I think about the 2 lay-ups he hit that brought them back in the last minute of last year's title game, and I basically start wishing him harm. It's not rational, but that is how I feel.

That leaves VCU, and I still taste the bile from 2007.

As I watch the games, I always naturally wind up rooting for someone. It'll be interesting to see who it is, because right now I couldn't tell you. My gut tell me, though, that this Butler thing is no fluke. That team really knows how to win, and they can really defend and force a game to their pace. If they can get VCU to play their pace, I think they'll win and slay goliath in the final.

Chard
03-28-2011, 03:38 PM
The cold, wet, miserable weather around here today is the collective result of the mood of the UNC faithful today as they ponder an eminently winnable final four in which they are not competing."

That first sentence is just great.

Back on topic: Go Butler. I just like the way they play the game and win in the tournament. The win against them for the championship last year looks much better to the haters out there now.

SuperTurkey
03-28-2011, 03:48 PM
No he did not. Kyrie's injury was not the result of contact with Matt Howard. Howard was guarding him at the time, but Kyrie's injury was just a fluke.

Agreed. Howard no more caused Kyrie's injury than Zoubek blew out Da'Sean Butler's knee.

rsvman
03-28-2011, 03:57 PM
I think ODU is going to beat Butler. Other than Shelvin Mack and Matt Howard, nobody on the Butler team would start over anybody on ODU, IMO.

I think Pittsburgh is going to beat Butler. Other than Shelvin Mack and Matt Howard, nobody on the Butler team would start over anybody on Pittsburgh, IMO.

I think Wisconsin is going to beat Butler. Other than Shelvin Mack and Matt Howard, nobody on the Butler team would start over anybody on Wisconsin, IMO.

I think Florida is going to beat Butler. Other than Shelvin Mack and Matt Howard, nobody on the Butler team would start over anybody on Florida, IMO.

Hmmm.....

Touche.

On the other hand, three of those games you mentioned could've gone the other way; it's not like Butler has been dominant. VCU has actually been the better team throughout the course of the tourney, crushing difficult foes like Purdue and Georgetown, and beating a very good Kansas team by double-digits.

It's too bad the game isn't tomorrow, because I think VCU is riding a wave right now that might crash before next Saturday's game. Still, until the game is actually played, my guess is just as good as yours.

basketball
03-28-2011, 04:29 PM
I'm disappointed in Duke's early demise in the tourney this year because I was looking forward to a Uconn vs Duke in the men's and women's brackets.

uh_no
03-28-2011, 06:17 PM
I'm disappointed in Duke's early demise in the tourney this year because I was looking forward to a Uconn vs Duke in the men's and women's brackets.

I wasn't..... for obvious reasons

-bdbd
03-28-2011, 07:08 PM
KY is favored to win it all, with 3-2 odds (40%), then Butler and U-con are tied next (33%), then VCU has the longest odds (20%). I might have given U-con slightly better chances, and Butler maybe a little lower.

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/campusrivalry/post/2011/03/final-four-odds-kentucky-uconn-butler-vcu-ncaa-tournament/1


According to oddsmakers at Bodog.com, the Kentucky Wildcats are now the favorites to win the national title. The Wildcats, the No. 4 seed out of the East Regional and the owners of seven national titles, are 3-2 to win the championship next week. Kentucky's semifinal opponent, Kemba Walker and the Connecticut Huskies, are tied with Butler at 2-1 to win the title. UConn has won two national titles while Butler is heading to its second consecutive Final Four after losing to Duke in last year's national championship game. VCU, despite winning five games to reach its first Final Four, is still the underdog at the Final Four. The Rams, who knocked off top-seeded Kansas in the Southwest Regional final on Sunday, are listed at 4-1 to win the title, according to Bodog.com.

dynastydefender
03-29-2011, 04:51 AM
#8 for sure. Playing like champions down the stretch with the current roster being led by Harrelson and Liggins. Why do I need to explain this?

moonpie23
03-29-2011, 08:29 AM
#8 for sure. Playing like champions down the stretch with the current roster being led by Harrelson and Liggins. Why do I need to explain this?

hey chris, if you're done in by VCU or BUTLER, you can explain THAT!! I swallowed the bitter pill of rooting for UK to put the tarholes down, but now that time has passed.....

I'm rooting for a mid-major champ....

NSDukeFan
03-29-2011, 09:35 AM
#8 for sure. Playing like champions down the stretch with the current roster being led by Harrelson and Liggins. Why do I need to explain this?

Is everyone in Kentucky excited for coach Cal's other three-peat (the other of course being the consecutive recruiting championships?) Since nobody has even had 2 final four appearances vacated, Cal could really separate himself with his third for three different programs.

brevity
03-31-2011, 02:57 PM
There were some people on this board who started to root for Arizona in the Elite 8 because they wanted Duke to at least lose to the eventual national champion. Didn't happen, but the sentiment touches upon my annual curiosity of which team has the most degrees of separation from the champion. The biggest loser, if you will. Here are the Final Four contenders:

EAST
Kentucky beat UNC, who beat Marquette, who beat Syracuse, who beat Indiana State.

WEST
Connecticut beat Arizona, who beat Duke, who beat Michigan, who beat Tennessee.

SOUTHWEST
VCU beat Kansas, who beat Richmond, who beat Morehead State, who beat Louisville.

SOUTHEAST
Butler beat Florida, who beat BYU, who beat Gonzaga, who beat St. John's.

Some potentially interesting results...

1. If Butler beats Connecticut in the final, then the Biggest Winner and Biggest Loser are both mid-major schools in Indiana.

2. If Connecticut wins the title, then the Big East can claim the Biggest Winner and Biggest Loser, and it doesn't matter whether the Huskies had to play VCU or Butler.

3. If Kentucky beats VCU in the final, then the Biggest Winner (Kentucky) and Biggest Loser (St. John's) feature head coaches who share the same brand of hair gel.

4. Most perversely, if Kentucky beats Butler, then Wildcat fans can gloat not only that their team won, but their bitter in-state rival Louisville was as far away from winning as possible.

In case you're wondering, has any team in the modern era ever been both the Biggest Winner in one season and the Biggest Loser in another? Yes. You only have to go back 7 years.

2010: Oklahoma State
2009: California
2008: Belmont
2007: New Mexico State
2006: Iowa
2005: Winthrop
2004: Florida

I wouldn't brag too much, though. Had Ohio State beaten Florida in the 2007 title game, the Biggest Loser in that bracket would have been Duke. And I guess it could have happened again one year later if not for Gerald Henderson. (Back to back!)

Tjenkins
03-31-2011, 04:32 PM
...I work at VCU, and grew up several blocks from campus, so I'll be pulling for them this weekend. The Rams run has helped me get over the loss to Arizona. If Butler wins Saturday, I'll be pulling for them in the title game.

This is the first time I've experienced a Final Four run in "person", the energy here is amazing. It's been surreal to see kids you've worked with getting written about in the NY Times, interviewed on ESPN,etc. It's not likely to happen again anytime soon, I'm just enjoying the ride.