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View Full Version : MBB S16: Arizona 93, Duke 77 Post-Game Thread



hurleyfor3
03-25-2011, 12:03 AM
Not sure what we could have done to win this one.

ForeverBlowingBubbles
03-25-2011, 12:03 AM
I'm not sure whats worse: losing, or having to hear Charles Barkley boast about being right.

Highlander
03-25-2011, 12:04 AM
ouch.

Not sure what else to say. That's gonna leave a mark. The following sums it up best.

"I've never seen a Duke team that rattled in the last 20 years."
- Greg Anthony

Have to go back to 1991 UNLV to see us get run out of the gym like that.

CarmenWallaceWade
03-25-2011, 12:04 AM
Going to have a really bad hangover tomorrow.

Krzyzewskiville
03-25-2011, 12:04 AM
Outplayed in every aspect of the game.


Nuff' said.

Going to work on this paper that I was going to be more incline to banging out, if we won.

RoyalBlue08
03-25-2011, 12:04 AM
It always hurts losing in the tournament. Seeing Nolan's face coming off the floor really hurt. I genuinely feel awful for him.

cbnaylor
03-25-2011, 12:04 AM
The only thing that I can think of is maybe we should have slowed the tempo down.

6th Man
03-25-2011, 12:05 AM
I hate to see the boys go out like that. Thank you Kyle and Nolan for tremendous careers!

CLW
03-25-2011, 12:05 AM
Zona was simply ON FIRE the entire game. Our defense wasn't good and Zona made us pay dearly and on the few misses they got to the glass particularly in the 2nd half.

Now I know how West Virginia felt like after we played our best game of the season and torched them last year.

kaufmjo
03-25-2011, 12:05 AM
Hit the nail on the head. Duke was totally rattled and Coach K didn't manage his team through it. Highly disappointing how the staff didn't settle them down

barjwr
03-25-2011, 12:06 AM
The only thing that I can think of is maybe we should have slowed the tempo down.

The thing is, we actually did. WE were the ones walking the ball up the court, taking it to the hoop 1-on-5, and missing out on the rebound; they just grabbed the misses and ran out for easy baskets.

gwlaw99
03-25-2011, 12:06 AM
Thank you Nolan and Kyle for four great years. So many great memories. Hold your heads high.

Son of Mojo
03-25-2011, 12:06 AM
Arizona hit everything they threw up in the 2nd half and did for a lot of the 1st half. No rebounding, bad TO's, some iffy shots, and Seth going down......ugh. Disappointing end to the year but, regardless of what anyone says, NOT a disappointing YEAR. Proud of the guys and loathe seeing Nolan and Kyle go out like this, but we couldn't stand up to what we faced in the 2nd half. I need a drink (and I'm a straight edger)..............

Still proud of the guys for the season. It hurts now but everyone should still hold their collective head high.

YourLandlord
03-25-2011, 12:06 AM
Not sure what we could have done to win this one.

shoulda slowed the game down in the 2nd half. it was clear from the start they were running up and down; the farther we got behind, the faster we had to play, which played to their favor.

shoulda taken our halftime lead and played a slow, deliberate half. we are better in the halfcourt offense than they are, and we are better at defense when we can set up.

for some reason we got into a running game with a team more athletic than we are. when curry and singler sat out, we should have slowed it down.

kmspeaks
03-25-2011, 12:06 AM
One, what just happened?!?! I'm totally shell shocked. I hurt for Kyle and Nolan right now.

Two, I will preface this by saying that I will never ever ever ever blame refs for a loss so please don't read this that way. However right now no amount of factual evidence could convince me that the following statement is not true.

# of uncalled offensive fouls committed by Derrick Williams > # of uncalled traveling violations committed by Tyler Hansbrough

diveonthefloor
03-25-2011, 12:06 AM
A great season shouldn't be overshadowed by one lousy half.

Getting seeded #1 in the West, it's not hard to imagine this might happen. The game basically started at 10pm, and by the time the second half began, it should've been bedtime. Combine that with a Zona team which has a legit NBA top draft choice, playing close to home, and hotter than blazes....recipe for what happened.

Nolan and Kyle deserved to go out better, but their accomplishments won't be tarnished one bit. They were awesome Dukies!

It's way past my bedtime.

BleedsP287
03-25-2011, 12:06 AM
Came down to them hardly missing a shot and us getting no rebounds in the second half. Hard to beat any team when they play as well as they did tonight. That's the way it goes. Hats off to them.

Matches
03-25-2011, 12:07 AM
Hit the nail on the head. Duke was totally rattled and Coach K didn't manage his team through it. Highly disappointing how the staff didn't settle them down

He called two timeouts. Not sure what else he could've done.

We lost because we didn't defend or rebound in the 2nd half. 77 points should have been enough to win.

CarmenWallaceWade
03-25-2011, 12:07 AM
Give all the credit to Arizona. They played lights out. But man, that was about as poorly as we could have been on offense in the second half. Couldn't even do the little things right. Just shocked right now at how the last 18 mins unfolded.

cbnaylor
03-25-2011, 12:07 AM
Hit the nail on the head. Duke was totally rattled and Coach K didn't manage his team through it. Highly disappointing how the staff didn't settle them down

I agree with this. Should have slowed it down and take good shots

devildownunder
03-25-2011, 12:07 AM
ouch.

Not sure what else to say. That's gonna leave a mark. The following sums it up best.

"I've never seen a Duke team that rattled in the last 20 years."
- Greg Anthony

Have to go back to 1991 UNLV to see us get run out of the gym like that.

That was 1990. 1991 was payback time.

loldevilz
03-25-2011, 12:07 AM
I thought Coach K lost this one.

1) We got killed on the boards, but we played SMALL the entire game

2) He refused to call timeouts and it got out of hand

Bluedevil114
03-25-2011, 12:07 AM
Arizona could not miss and the ball did not bounce our way at all. Felt great in the first half and if Williams did not score 25 points on some unbelievable shots the game is a blow out for Duke

Kyrie scores 28 and Singler scores 18. If you hear that before the game you think we win by 20.

This really sucks. I did not expect this and it is so sad to see Singler and Smith end their Duke careers like this.

We will be back!!

Go Marquette!!

COYS
03-25-2011, 12:08 AM
Hats of to Zona. Not sure anything we could have done would've been enough in this one.

On the other hand, big hats off for Kyle and Nolan! You guys are warriors and big time winners. You make Duke proud. Good luck at the next level and come back to visit often!

superdave
03-25-2011, 12:08 AM
The only thing that I can think of is maybe we should have slowed the tempo down.

This is a good point. We need a half court game with the ball in Nolan's hands, and Arizona reacting to us.

We needed to exploit our size in the halfcourt and make them make tough plays. They benefited from the up and down, frenetic pace. We did not. This was the junk ball team we couldnt beat, but we could have and should have kept it a half court war, rather than junk ball. Sucks.

They hit their shots, we didnt. They got loose balls, we didnt. They out-worked us. Hats off.

Bob Green
03-25-2011, 12:08 AM
1. This loss illustrates how special was last year's championship.
2. [Steve McQueen voice] What the hell happened? [/Steve McQueen voice]

Thanks for a great year guys! I enjoyed the ride.

devildownunder
03-25-2011, 12:08 AM
I agree with this. Should have slowed it down and take good shots

We slowed it down plenty. But we seemed incapable of running an offensive set to get a good shot. Truth be told, whenever Duke does struggle under K, it is almost always because the offense has gone stagnant.

Duke09
03-25-2011, 12:09 AM
Zona was simply ON FIRE the entire game. Our defense wasn't good and Zona made us pay dearly and on the few misses they got to the glass particularly in the 2nd half.

Now I know how West Virginia felt like after we played our best game of the season and torched them last year.

Exactly what I thought re: WV game. AZ Hit every jumper, got every board, and we were in foul trouble to boot. It just hurts after playing such a great first half. If they don't go crazy from three, we could possibly have had a double digit lead. Going to miss Kyle and Nolan

taiw93
03-25-2011, 12:09 AM
It's really hard to say something nice about this game, so I'll leave it at this:

Nolan, Kyle, and Casey, you three are the definitions of champions. From Kyle's warrior mentality, to Nolan's killer instinct and marked improvement over his four years, to Casey's amazing work ethic and great attitude (to go from manager to walk-on, to scholarship player is truly amazing and takes a TON of heart), I cannot be more proud of this trio, both as players and as people.

And Kyrie, I would love to have you back next year, but if this is the end of your Duke career, I would like to thank you for a spectacular year - probably the most talented kid I can remember at Duke, and with a great work ethic and personality to match. Good luck next year, wherever that may be.

lotusland
03-25-2011, 12:09 AM
Not sure what happened. Things were going well enough at the half, we started the 2nd half OK, Kyle went out with a floor burn ruining their fast break and next thing I know we're down 20.

Dukeford
03-25-2011, 12:09 AM
Maybe it's becasue he's 6-10, and he can touch the rim with both elbows.

DukeFanNJ
03-25-2011, 12:10 AM
That is why it is hard to rePeat. I think we would win 7 out of 10 times but in this type of game a team can panic and that is what duke did. I still love our team and can't wait til next year. Thank you Kyrie for coming back. A great 4 years for Singler and Nolan. I look for Seth to come up big next year.

A-Tex Devil
03-25-2011, 12:10 AM
Play some semblance of D in the second half? Grab 5 more boards? Give Kyle a breather when he was literally not defending at all due to fatigue and 4 fouls? That last one turned the game and maybe we didn't have alternatives but it seemed strange.

Feel bad for the guys. This is a disturbing trend though - 'Nova, Georgetown, St. Johns, Zona

Thankfully we have sandwiched a national championship around it so I'll chill out now that the game is over. Still until those games, I can't remember any Duke teams just laying down like that when faced with adversity. Can anyone else? Again, just a disturbing trend. Next play.

Lulu
03-25-2011, 12:10 AM
I gotta say one thing. Duke saves its worst and best performances for the tournament. In my opinion, the enormity of being the favorite that Duke usually is, and the fact that nothing else in the season matters at this point... it's just too much pressure for the kids sometimes.

I have no opinion on this next topic, but would like to hear everyone's thought on the extent to which Kyrie's return did or did not affect Nolan's game.

COYS
03-25-2011, 12:10 AM
I thought Coach K lost this one.

1) We got killed on the boards, but we played SMALL the entire game

2) He refused to call timeouts and it got out of hand

Kelly seemed a bit over-matched athletically in this one and Miles got into foul trouble.

We used timeouts early in the second half. They didn't work.

And if you think K lost this game, then you are just not giving enough credit to Arizona.

tendev
03-25-2011, 12:10 AM
We just looked like we had had enough of this season. No will. No energy. The crowd against you. I think it is difficult to go out game after game and push yourself against the other team's best effort. That's the way it goes. Arizona just wanted it more. Williams got them to the first half within striking distance and we just could not bring the energy in the second half.

We also need a stronger inside game. Well, at least I can relax now.

Kfanarmy
03-25-2011, 12:10 AM
Duke really got outrebounded...Really was one of those games...three duke players knock the ball out of each others hands and it lands it AZ hands; AZ hit almost every tough shot; Duke players falling on the floor allowing defense to rebound the ball. As has been said skill and luck are key. Just thought there were about five minutes early in the second half where Duke was playing well, but AZ was hitting every tough shot and Duke couldn't hit anything. got tentative shooting the three and didn't force the ball inside like they had early on. They got rattled something terrible. Great season, I hope this really makes those who stay hungry next year.

fc3
03-25-2011, 12:11 AM
There's nothing to say but thanks to all the Duke players and congrats to Arizona. They played lights out 2nd half. Hard to get a rebound if they never miss.

TheRob8801
03-25-2011, 12:11 AM
shoulda taken our halftime lead and played a slow, deliberate half. we are better in the halfcourt offense than they are, and we are better at defense when we can set up.

This is the MO for all of our losses this season, we're not a great halfcourt offense and when we play teams that just out-class us athletically it's an endless cycle we can't catch up to because we're not a good transition defense. It's a good thing and a bad thing to have a team that's so predictable that you know who they're going to beat and who they're going to have a hell of a time trying not to lose to.

_Gary
03-25-2011, 12:11 AM
Nothing at all to say. It was a very sad, and very unexpected, end to this season. To have seen this team go through all they did, getting Kyrie back and all, and then this. It was just monstrous all the way around. I still maintain something very strange happened when Seth went down with that injury. We had come out of half time up 6 and hit our first shot to go up by 8. Seth dropped down and got a steal so we had the ball and were up 8 to start the second half. At that exact moment I felt like Duke would assert it's will and we'd win going away - easily! But the Seth went down. He was hurt and helped off the court and we just lost something when he went back to the lockerroom. I don't know if the other team felt like they saw blood in the water and started storming or what, but I'm convinced that injury, as innocent as it seemed at that moment, was the key that changed everything. I'm not sure why it was such a big deal. But I do, with all my heart, believe that was the play that changed the game.

KandG
03-25-2011, 12:11 AM
The only thing that I can think of is maybe we should have slowed the tempo down.

I actually thought the same thing -- the team improved and our defense improved late in the year when we slowed the game down (slightly) and got back in transition. Not going to name any names, but it seemed like when Arizona started coming back, we started speeding our game up and made their job easier on defense with the shots we took.

We would have probably lost this game no matter what, but Singler's bleeding and Seth's injury were very frustrating catalysts for their comeback. Will really, really miss Nolan and Kyle and sorry they went out this way.

CrazyNotCrazie
03-25-2011, 12:11 AM
This game made me miss Lance. We could have used his heart, his hustle, his passion, his scrappiness his leadership. Not to point fingers because they have been unbelievable throughout their careers and we wouldn't have gotten this far without them, but Kyle and Nolan needed to take it upon themselves to light a fire under the team - everyone looked like deer in headlights out there.

TheRob8801
03-25-2011, 12:12 AM
I thought Coach K lost this one.

1) We got killed on the boards, but we played SMALL the entire game

2) He refused to call timeouts and it got out of hand

Yea! I agree! Coach K should've had more rebounds!

He also should've called about 9 or 10 timeouts in that second half. :rolleyes:

yancem
03-25-2011, 12:12 AM
Its hard to gauge a game like this. On the one hand it is easy to say that Duke got flustered, stopped executing and the defense broke down but when absurd well defended shots go down and the ball seems to have a magnetic pull to the other team sometimes you have to say its just not your night.

If Duke played Arizona again there is no way they shoot as well as they did tonight. But that's the thing about the tourney, it's win or go home and a hot team can beat a better team.

I'm really disappointed by the loss but its the nature of the beast. I'm just sorry that Singler and Smith have to go out this way. Let's just hope that this gives Irving a bad enough taste in his mouth to come back and make another run.

devildeac
03-25-2011, 12:12 AM
ouch.

Not sure what else to say. That's gonna leave a mark. The following sums it up best.

"I've never seen a Duke team that rattled in the last 20 years."
- Greg Anthony

Have to go back to 1991 UNLV to see us get run out of the gym like that.

Or to St. John's less than 2 months ago. (And it was 1990.)

jkidd31
03-25-2011, 12:12 AM
Going to have a really bad hangover tomorrow.


Touche'

In my 25 years of following Duke, that may be one of the worst halfs I can remember. Normally it seems like we'll play a bad first half and regroup in the 2nd. Hell we even played ok the first 5 minutes pf the 2nd.

Kyle and Nolan...love you guys and that's for hanging a banner.

Kyrie....you know you really want to play next season with Austin.

Now my sole focus is on Duke Lax.

kong123
03-25-2011, 12:12 AM
Maybe KI hurt Nolan's game?

A-Tex Devil
03-25-2011, 12:13 AM
ouch.

Not sure what else to say. That's gonna leave a mark. The following sums it up best.

"I've never seen a Duke team that rattled in the last 20 years."
- Greg Anthony

Have to go back to 1991 UNLV to see us get run out of the gym like that.

You clearly missed Villanova three years ago

J4Kop99
03-25-2011, 12:13 AM
Well, that was unexpected. It's not even like I didn't think highly of Arizona prior to the game. I guess I just thought our guys had more fight in them...

Turns out that all those worries about Nolan and Kyrie meshing together came into play. Nolan played an absolutely terrible game. Didn't do anything on either side of the ball. Kyrie played well but you could tell he is still thinking about his toe. He never goes hard around screens and that kills us, especially when we are playing a team that is shooting lights out.

Kyle played well but got into foul trouble. He had the effort but just couldn't keep it up long enough. At least he showed up though.

And the rest of your guys... ?

I also put some of this on Coach K. Did we ever run an actual play on offense, or did we just throw the ball down to Mason every single time? I couldn't believe how unprepared our guys were. Did they even have a gameplan going into tonight's game?


We must give credit where credit is due though. Arizona played a tremendous game. They shot lights out, showed more effort and hustle, out rebounded us and played tougher D. We got beat in every aspect of the game. They went on a 19-2 run over the course of 5 minutes... that is unheard of. We ran into the wrong team at the wrong time.

I now have absolutely zero interest in the rest of this NCAA tournament.

Gthoma2a
03-25-2011, 12:13 AM
I think I know how West Virginia felt last year a little. They watched their seniors have to go quietly into the night. They saw their team showing effort, but nothing going right, while the other team had everything clicking. I love this team. No matter the result, I believe the effort was monumental. I thank them all.

MaxAMillion
03-25-2011, 12:13 AM
Sometimes the other team just plays better. I don't think WVU fans should have been mad at Huggins last year. Duke just played really good ball in that game. Same thing tonight. Arizona played a great half and Duke had no answer. Sometimes you just have to give respect to the opponent for a great game.

BlueHeaven
03-25-2011, 12:13 AM
I gotta say one thing. Duke saves its worst and best performances for the tournament. In my opinion, the enormity of being the favorite that Duke usually is, and the fact that nothing else in the season matters at this point... it's just too much pressure for the kids sometimes.

I have no opinion on this next topic, but would like to hear everyone's thought on the extent to which Kyrie's return did or did not affect Nolan's game.

I said it after last weekend--Nolan looked like he was playing more hesitantly with Kyrie in the game. We pulled a tough bracket and they were playing on what amounted a home court in their own time zone. Kyle got the crap beat out of him on uncalled fouls and they just ran out of gas. Great ride, though. I am sad for the seniors and will miss them.

cruxer
03-25-2011, 12:13 AM
Great year by the guys and thanks to Kyle and Nolan for coming back and for 4 fantastic years!

On to the game. Derrick Williams. Nuff said. He was the difference and he was unguardable tonight. As poorly as we played in the 2nd half, it would have been a 20-pt Duke lead in the first half if not for Williams. No way they come back from that. We did look rattled on the defensive end in the 2nd half and even when we Zona missed, they got the offensive rebound. I don't know if it was timezone, us, Arizona, or some combination of all 3 but we lost the game on their end of the floor. It is hard to blame the timezone when the team got there on Tuesday and Connecticut went through the same travel, though.

-c

tb3
03-25-2011, 12:13 AM
second half = St. John's. Don't know what else they could have really done other than slow thing down some and try to limit possessions and be more efficient on offense as they were just not going to miss in the second half(and when they they did they got the rebound and score)...will be interested ot see number of empty possessions they had in second half, it could only have been a handful

superdave
03-25-2011, 12:14 AM
Sad to see Nolan and Kyle go out this way. Two of the most enjoyable kids to watch.

With that said, we had a good season and have some good memories of our two seniors. So it's a good time to reflect on the positives.

Keep your chin up Devils.

Jeff0r3
03-25-2011, 12:15 AM
just flat out disappointing way to end the season. I wish Nolan and Kyle would have went out with another banner. Thanks for everything! Wishing you well, and will pull for you always!

richardjackson199
03-25-2011, 12:15 AM
I thought Coach K lost this one.

1) We got killed on the boards, but we played SMALL the entire game

2) He refused to call timeouts and it got out of hand

This had nothing to do with Coach K. Duke was brilliantly prepared and we played a phenomenal First Half, esp. after trying to work Irving back into the team after being out for 3 months. There is an expression in college basketball that any given night a team can get hot and beat another team. That is what happened. Duke was not going to beat Arizona tonight. They never missed anything. If they did, they got the rebound and scored. Duke played winning basketball at a very high level. Arizona was on another planet. When Singler made an awesome hussle play and had to leave the game with that cut elbow, Arizona took over. They took the momentum, got the "home" crowd into it, and we were done. Congrats to them. Any team that plays like that and can't miss anything deserves to win. Duke understandably got a little rattled when they got down because they were playing good D, but Arizona never went cold, never missed anything. This was not St. John's. Duke played well. They just ran into the wrong team on the wrong night.

Gthoma2a
03-25-2011, 12:15 AM
Maybe KI hurt Nolan's game?

That's the easy excuse, but I don't buy it. Nolan had a bad game. If we rebound, we win this game. I don't think any of us will take the easy culprit. It was a team loss, and the addition of a great player didn't break us.

devildownunder
03-25-2011, 12:15 AM
I gotta say one thing. Duke saves its worst and best performances for the tournament. In my opinion, the enormity of being the favorite that Duke usually is, and the fact that nothing else in the season matters at this point... it's just too much pressure for the kids sometimes.

I have no opinion on this next topic, but would like to hear everyone's thought on the extent to which Kyrie's return did or did not affect Nolan's game.

It's impossible to tell, really. Nolan went off on a personal 10-0 run last week and played well overall, with Kyrie in the game. Tonight he probably played his worst game all year, with Kyrie in there.

Maybe Kyrie's not the key variable.

cruxer
03-25-2011, 12:16 AM
Maybe KI hurt Nolan's game?

I'd say Kyrie and Nolan never meshed as they did at the beginning of the year, yet it was a chance K had to take, as an integrated Kyrie was Duke's best chance of winning. It didn't work out, but it was worth the risk. If you lose, you want to have used every arrow in your quiver.

-c

DukeFanNJ
03-25-2011, 12:16 AM
Please don't think that Kyrie messed this up for us. We lost it on the defensive end. We almost gave up 60 points in the second half. Everyone was a step slow. And don't forget Seth went out early in the 2nd half. Kyrie played great. Kyle is a warrior. Nolan had a bad night. It happens. Watch Arizona lay an egg next game.

wowzap
03-25-2011, 12:16 AM
As noted previously duke has a bad habit of losing in the sweet 16, 5 or 6 times in the past 10 years...3 times they lost to a 5 seed! AZ played the best half I have ever witnessed in watching them for over 30 years. The smartest dukies will suck it up and now root for my wildcats the rest of the way...

BlueandWhite
03-25-2011, 12:16 AM
I thought Coach K lost this one.

1) We got killed on the boards, but we played SMALL the entire game

2) He refused to call timeouts and it got out of hand

it wasn't nearly as much Duke's loss, or Coach K's loss -- rather, it was Arizona's win, pure and simple. They played with more energy the entire game, shot lights out from outside, played very good defense, made free throws, and beat our butts on the boards in the 2nd half. Hats off to them. A sad way for our seniors to go out and I like everyone hate to see Duke lose in the tournament particularly in the round of 16 recently - including LSU 2006, Villanova 2009. It was a great year, and they are 2011 ACC champs.

Kfanarmy
03-25-2011, 12:16 AM
I have no opinion on this next topic, but would like to hear everyone's thought on the extent to which Kyrie's return did or did not affect Nolan's game. They never really got to the point where the two took turns passing to each other and driving in the lane. Nolan disappeared with KI in the game...I think it affected his performance on both ends of the court. Not sure exactly why they couldn't, but it seemed they should have been able to really put pressure on another team. For whatever reason just never seemed to both be agressive at the same time.

tendev
03-25-2011, 12:17 AM
I gotta say one thing. Duke saves its worst and best performances for the tournament. In my opinion, the enormity of being the favorite that Duke usually is, and the fact that nothing else in the season matters at this point... it's just too much pressure for the kids sometimes.

I have no opinion on this next topic, but would like to hear everyone's thought on the extent to which Kyrie's return did or did not affect Nolan's game.

Nolan seems to defer to Kyrie. The two of them did not have enough time to learn to work together.

But we never passed the ball nor make Zona work on defense. Even in the first half. Watch Bulter on offense. They pass it, move, set picks, and work at it on offense.

weezie
03-25-2011, 09:04 AM
Watching the post-game presser, seeing the remnants of tears in the eyes of both Nolan and Kyle, and how, kind of, gentle Coach K was, it's so obvious that there is such a great deal of love and respect in that locker room.

We might have sat on our couches screaming, but to imagine the panic and heartsick feelings of the players as the game slid away.....sometimes we forget that while shouting advice at the tv.

Troublemaker
03-25-2011, 09:11 AM
There is no doubt in my mind that the Duke team we saw over 3 games of the ACC tournament was vastly superior to the Duke team we saw over 3 games of the NCAA tournament.

In particular, Nolan and Kyrie were still re-adjusting to each other following Kyrie's return and did not gel fast enough for our season to continue.

The Smith-Irving backcourt had a plus/minus of -4 against Hampton (Literally the only lineups in that game that were negative were Smith-Irving ones). Smith-Irving was +3 against Michigan but should've been +9. IMO, they were the biggest culprits in nearly giving the game away at the end with poor defense on Michigan's guards and poor decision-making on offense (props to Kyrie for that bank shot, though). And we can safely assume the Smith-Irving pairing was negative-something against Arizona while somehow allowing MoMo Jones to have a 16-point, 6-assist, 0-turnover night.

None of that happens, imo, if Duke had a month to gain chemistry with Kyrie instead of just a few days. The team was playing with fire trying to re-integrate him into the lineup and they got burned against the Wildcats.

*Shrugs*. Oh well. Life goes on.

We need to be mature adults about the loss. Please don't write anything on this public board that you'll regret later. Especially not with these seniors. Not with this coach. Look, I'm taking the loss hard as well. The team I saw in the ACC tournament seemed like a Final Four team to me. But how can I blame Coach K for trying to re-integrate Kyrie when 95% of us would've made the same decision?

I mean, on March 13, right after witnessing Duke's brilliant ACC championship game performance, if you had polled the fans, I bet 95% of us would STILL have risked the possible chemistry problems of a Kyrie return for the upside of his talent being added to the team. I can't blame Coach K for trying what the vast majority of fans and, imo, coaches in his shoes would've tried. And I certainly won't blame the players for not being fast enough at re-inventing themselves (yet again) so my spoiled fan-butt didn't have to "endure" the "shame" of a Sweet 16 loss.

Perspective. If this Duke loss was the worst event you've suffered in the past year or even if it were just in your top 10 somewhere, then you should count yourself as one lucky human being.

It was a shame that Kyrie wasn't healthy all year, but that's life for you. Stuff happens. Re-watch the Baylor and Butler games from last year and tell me those two contests weren't complete toss-ups, i.e. Duke was 50/50 to win each. Well, Duke ended up winning both and took home that trophy, and you know something? Maybe karmically, one trophy is all we "should" have won over the course of these past two seasons. Perhaps last season we won with a team that shouldn't have, and this season, the scales balanced via an injury that derailed what otherwise might've been a dominant champion.

No regrets. Pop in your DVDs of last season's championship run and enjoy them if you have to.

Nevertheless, THIS season was a great one, too. The team overcame the loss of the likely #1 overall draft pick to still win the ACC and post two memorable wins over Carolina in the process. One was a goose bump-inducing thriller of a second-half comeback. Another was a do-not-delete-from-DVR-ever beatdown of the Heels in the ACC championship game. I LOVED this team, if only for those two performances alone and the resiliency that they showed from December to March after their best player went down.

One loss in March, under unusual re-integration circumstances, should not taint all the good things that came before it. Again, in my book, it was a great season.

Thank you Nolan. Thank you Kyle. Thank you Casey. You will be missed.

Nolan & Kyle: I look forward to watching your jerseys raised to the rafters next year and to following your NBA careers. You guys are legends.

94duke
03-25-2011, 09:21 AM
I've never seen an entire game turn from so good to so bad on what looked like a totally innocuous play. Kyle dove to the ground and knocked the ball away preventing an Arizona layup. It seemed like a great play. Kyle got up and was checking his elbow. It looked like a scratch. An Arizona player (I can't remember who) grabbed a ref and pointed out Kyle's now bleeding elbow. Kyle goes to the bench and tries to get it patched quickly. The ref makes him sub out of the game. It was somewhere around 18:30 to play. We then gave up an open 3FG and 2 layups while only scoring once. Our small lead was gone, but worse, the tide had turned. Arizona had seized control of the game. Andre hit a 3FG and Kyrie made a couple free throws; it gave us hope that we could regain the initiative, but that never happened. Over the next 3 minutes Arizona scored the next 13 points. We could never get much going after that.

It was an amazing play, that dive to save the layup. We will never know if we would have defended those next three plays better with Kyle on the floor, but I suspect that we would have. There's a pretty good chance that Arizona goes on their run anyway, but again, we will never know.

Congratulations to Duke on another wonderful season.
Duke 2011 ACC Champions!

Vincetaylor
03-25-2011, 09:32 AM
At no point this year were we as good as Arizona was last night. They were in a ridiculous zone and would have beaten anyone. Sure we could have played better, but it's awfully tough to beat a team who is literally making everything they take.

dukefan75
03-25-2011, 09:35 AM
i just dont understand how it seemed we played so uninspired on defense all tournament. check the ACC tournament as the polar opposite. Nolan was in your face, arms flailing around making it impossible for other ball handlers. Everyone pressured with an in your face mentality that seemed to be non-existent last night. Where was the fire and urgency? I know his shot was off, but all game i kept telling myself that Nolan looked sick or something. I had never seen him look so lethergic on both ends of floor. I don't buy the difficult transition of playing with KI again-- that doenst account for the defensive end where we applied no pressure. Even Coach K-- where was the anger and fire? where was the stand up on sidelines urging team on to play with emotion? Yes AZ played great, but the game just seemed so surreal-- even our bench players barely stood up on good plays. I just dont get the whole tourney play. was as if they took medicated pills to relax their nerves or something.

Rich
03-25-2011, 09:36 AM
There is no doubt in my mind that the Duke team we saw over 3 games of the ACC tournament was vastly superior to the Duke team we saw over 3 games of the NCAA tournament.

In particular, Nolan and Kyrie were still re-adjusting to each other following Kyrie's return and did not gel fast enough for our season to continue.

The Smith-Irving backcourt had a plus/minus of -4 against Hampton (Literally the only lineups in that game that were negative were Smith-Irving ones). Smith-Irving was +3 against Michigan but should've been +9. IMO, they were the biggest culprits in nearly giving the game away at the end with poor defense on Michigan's guards and poor decision-making on offense (props to Kyrie for that bank shot, though). And we can safely assume the Smith-Irving pairing was negative-something against Arizona while somehow allowing MoMo Jones to have a 16-point, 6-assist, 0-turnover night.

None of that happens, imo, if Duke had a month to gain chemistry with Kyrie instead of just a few days. The team was playing with fire trying to re-integrate him into the lineup and they got burned against the Wildcats.

*Shrugs*. Oh well. Life goes on.

We need to be mature adults about the loss. Please don't write anything on this public board that you'll regret later. Especially not with these seniors. Not with this coach. Look, I'm taking the loss hard as well. The team I saw in the ACC tournament seemed like a Final Four team to me. But how can I blame Coach K for trying to re-integrate Kyrie when 95% of us would've made the same decision?

I mean, on March 13, right after witnessing Duke's brilliant ACC championship game performance, if you had polled the fans, I bet 95% of us would STILL have risked the possible chemistry problems of a Kyrie return for the upside of his talent being added to the team. I can't blame Coach K for trying what the vast majority of fans and, imo, coaches in his shoes would've tried. And I certainly won't blame the players for not being fast enough at re-inventing themselves (yet again) so my spoiled fan-butt didn't have to "endure" the "shame" of a Sweet 16 loss.

Perspective. If this Duke loss was the worst event you've suffered in the past year or even if it were just in your top 10 somewhere, then you should count yourself as one lucky human being.

It was a shame that Kyrie wasn't healthy all year, but that's life for you. Stuff happens. Re-watch the Baylor and Butler games from last year and tell me those two contests weren't complete toss-ups, i.e. Duke was 50/50 to win each. Well, Duke ended up winning both and took home that trophy, and you know something? Maybe karmically, one trophy is all we "should" have won over the course of these past two seasons. Perhaps last season we won with a team that shouldn't have, and this season, the scales balanced via an injury that derailed what otherwise might've been a dominant champion.

No regrets. Pop in your DVDs of last season's championship run and enjoy them if you have to.

Nevertheless, THIS season was a great one, too. The team overcame the loss of the likely #1 overall draft pick to still win the ACC and post two memorable wins over Carolina in the process. One was a goose bump-inducing thriller of a second-half comeback. Another was a do-not-delete-from-DVR-ever beatdown of the Heels in the ACC championship game. I LOVED this team, if only for those two performances alone and the resiliency that they showed from December to March after their best player went down.

One loss in March, under unusual re-integration circumstances, should not taint all the good things that came before it. Again, in my book, it was a great season.

Thank you Nolan. Thank you Kyle. Thank you Casey. You will be missed.

Nolan & Kyle: I look forward to watching your jerseys raised to the rafters next year and to following your NBA careers. You guys are legends.

Thanks Trouble. This is the best post today. I've seen a bunch of negative posts about the season and the game, but your perspective is right on. You hit the nail on the head on all accounts.

Wander
03-25-2011, 09:39 AM
It was an amazing play, that dive to save the layup. We will never know if we would have defended those next three plays better with Kyle on the floor, but I suspect that we would have. There's a pretty good chance that Arizona goes on their run anyway, but again, we will never know.


If I remember correctly, a good deal of the mistakes in the sequence you're referring to were made by Ryan Kelly, who was only in to sub for Singler. So, yes, I completely agree - it was really this small series that turned the tide (which maybe would have happened anyway).

CTDukeFan
03-25-2011, 09:45 AM
Games like this make it clear why winning a national championship is a lot of skill, but takes a little bit of luck. Arizona played a very impressive game. Sure, Duke has probably not had a half that bad all season (perhaps against St. Johns), but Arizona was playing very, very well.

Williams took the team on his back and was able to first keep his team in the game and then help them blow the doors open. When that shot at the end of the first half goes in while Williams is being well guarded, I thought - "Gosh, it might just be that kind of night for Arizona." Once the second half started lots of things seemed to be go Arizona's way. Shots went in and balls ended up in their hands.

I think Kyle may have gotten injured at some point either when he had the bloody elbow or when he had his layup blocked.

If Williams doesn't have such a good first half, perhaps the momentum is Duke's way. If Texas beats Arizona, we play Texas instead and maybe the matchup is better for us. These things happen. You have to win six in a row and sometimes you happen to hit a team when they are hot. Perhaps UConn wins Saturday because Williams has an off night.

I believe we had to play Kyrie because without him there wasn't a chance. I'd rather see us go down trying our best than playing it safe.

It was a great year. Sad to see the seniors leave. Thanks guys!

I hope Kyrie decides to stick around, but either way we'll have a good year next year.

I'm watching the post-game press conference right now, and it just reminds my why I love Duke and Coach K. Such style. Such class. Willing to praise the opposing team. If you haven't watched it, you should. You can find it on goduke.com. Here's the link (http://www.ncaa.com/menshighlights/?SPSID=22724&SPID=1845&DB_OEM_ID=4200&c=turner_mmod_mens_pressers&p=514353&s=5081160&i=919907).

superdave
03-25-2011, 09:45 AM
We got out-rebounded 40-27. They got offensive rebounds on 16 of their 29 misses (55%). Dang.

They hit 6-8 3-pointers in the 1st half (Williams was 5-6) which in retrospect was enough to keep the team afloat while Duke was playing really good ball.

They shot 21-36 (58%) for the 2nd half which is a lot of field goals to hit in a half, good for 55 points.

Nolan and Seth combined for 10 points on 4-16 shooting. Nolan had 6 TOs. This duo if you recall was on fire in the ACCT. I'm sure the Kyrie Re-Integration Project will be discussed ad nauseum through the weekend here. Irving had 28 on 9-15 shooting.

We actually hit more FTs than they did (18 to 16) and fouls were about even (20-21) but Kyle had 4 for a lot of the 2nd half which hurt us.

Small vs Large rotations - Our front line of Mason, Miles, Ryan combined for 10 points, 12 ball-boards, 5 blocks but only 59 minutes. So we played Kyle at the 4 for right about 19 minutes (Josh played 2 minutes to close it out).

My conclusion (and then I'm taking the rest of the morning off to go stare blankly out the window) is that Duke allowed Arizona to dictate the pace of the game. We got away from our halfcourt precision offense, and we got away from our pressure D that slows the game down. The game turned into a free for all and they are faster and quicker than us at a lot of positions. We got away from our game because they brought more energy, intensity and focus than we did. That was a lot of DBR folks' concern from very early on and unfortunately it bit us badly at the worst possible time against a team we're better than 8/10 nights.

Honestly, it makes me appreciate what last year's team was able to do even more: know your roles and hold your limitations at arms length, maximize your strengths and make everyone play your game. I think that gives us a lot of perspective about last night.

I will miss seeing Nolan's smile and Kyle's guts out there for Duke.

Super "Next Play" Dave

Spret42
03-25-2011, 09:49 AM
i just dont understand how it seemed we played so uninspired on defense all tournament. check the ACC tournament as the polar opposite. Nolan was in your face, arms flailing around making it impossible for other ball handlers. Everyone pressured with an in your face mentality that seemed to be non-existent last night. Where was the fire and urgency? I know his shot was off, but all game i kept telling myself that Nolan looked sick or something. I had never seen him look so lethergic on both ends of floor. I don't buy the difficult transition of playing with KI again-- that doenst account for the defensive end where we applied no pressure. Even Coach K-- where was the anger and fire? where was the stand up on sidelines urging team on to play with emotion? Yes AZ played great, but the game just seemed so surreal-- even our bench players barely stood up on good plays. I just dont get the whole tourney play. was as if they took medicated pills to relax their nerves or something.

Sometimes all the anger and fire in the world can't contain guards who are both quick and strong with the ball. Add in a 6-8 versatile power forward who is a freak athlete but also has a fairly decent jumpshot and you have a problem.

Those guards for Arizona were good with the ball. Basketball is still basketball and an offense that can play off an unstoppable single player can turn into a nightmare quick.

FerryFor50
03-25-2011, 09:49 AM
Nothing that happened in this game can take away what a great season Duke had.

- ACC tourny champs
- top 5 in rankings all year
- NPOY Nolan Smith
- All-ACC Kyle Singler
- 2-1 vs UNC
- 2-0 against Maryland
- #1 seed in NCAAs
- Sweet 16 appearance

This game was just an anomaly, one where everything that could happen to cause Duke to lose did.

- AZ COULD NOT MISS, regardless if Duke played D or not
- Duke's intensity in the 2nd waned with each made contested shot and each lost rebound
- Duke could not get into offensive rhythm due to AZ's defense and forcing up bad shots on offense
- turnovers

Derrick Williams is a heckuva player, but he didn't beat Duke himself. He carried AZ to a 6 point deficit in the 1st half. Zona looked gassed and flustered. Then, they started hitting shots in the 2nd as Duke focused more on trying to stop Williams it seemed. I liked the 1st half game plan; make Williams beat you by himself and stop everyone else.

Once everyone else got going and got confidence, it was over. No one could miss. They played loose and had fun.

The worst part about this loss wasn't the loss, but the fact that Duke didn't give it's best effort. They played hard for most of the game, but the shots just weren't falling and theirs were. Duke's best effort beats Zona by 12. We saw the exact opposite here. We caught a team playing its best ball while we were integrating an integral piece back into the puzzle. Bad timing... but overall, I think the season was a success.

CharlestonDevil
03-25-2011, 09:52 AM
There is no doubt in my mind that the Duke team we saw over 3 games of the ACC tournament was vastly superior to the Duke team we saw over 3 games of the NCAA tournament.

In particular, Nolan and Kyrie were still re-adjusting to each other following Kyrie's return and did not gel fast enough for our season to continue.

I was starting to think I was the only who saw this. Like several articles on DBR have pointed out before regarding the UNC/Kenny Smith example, this was just a different team once KI got back. Man did they have the talent. Even the leadership. But it just goes to show you the value of teamwork.

THIS team (3rd this year, one with KI at the beginning, one without him in the middle, and now this one at the end) was just biding time. I really thought a full week of practice would be enough to get us in to the Final Four.

This wasn't K's fault. It wasn't our kid's fault. It was the fault of circumstance, the re-integration of KI due to injury and AZ playing the game of their lives.

Congrats to Kyle and Nolan. I love you guys. Thanks for allowing me to watch you cut down the nets in Indianapolis.

dukebluesincebirth
03-25-2011, 09:54 AM
Well, a bittersweet season for me. While I have great memories of Nolan and Kyle, I can't help but think what if. The team we had at the beginning of the season could have grown into a monster, but Kyrie's injury ruined it. It's so frustrating because it was such an uncontrollable, freak injury that kept him out most of the season. Then by the time he could make a miracle comeback at the very end, it was too late for the team to get the necessary cohesiveness to make a deep run.

All in all, a good season with some great memories of two all time great Duke players who brought us a national championship. Unfortunately attached to those feelings are many thoughts of what could have been. Damn.

Channing
03-25-2011, 09:55 AM
I was starting to think I was the only who saw this. Like several articles on DBR have pointed out before regarding the UNC/Kenny Smith example, this was just a different team once KI got back. Man did they have the talent. Even the leadership. But it just goes to show you the value of teamwork.

THIS team (3rd this year, one with KI at the beginning, one without him in the middle, and now this one at the end) was just biding time. I really thought a full week of practice would be enough to get us in to the Final Four.

This wasn't K's fault. It wasn't our kid's fault. It was the fault of circumstance, the re-integration of KI due to injury and AZ playing the game of their lives.

Congrats to Kyle and Nolan. I love you guys. Thanks for allowing me to watch you cut down the nets in Indianapolis.


100% completely disagree. There is some sort of old saying that you don't need talent to play good defense. Duke scored 77 points. That should be enough to win. The breakdown was on the defensive end. I'll buy maybe Nolan and Kyrie weren't in sync on offense, but that holds no water at the other end of the court.

northernduke
03-25-2011, 09:59 AM
This was an awesome season of basketball. We knew it wouldn't be easy to integrate a player, especially a freshman, back into a well oiled system (remember that UNC game on one fine Sunday afternoon?).

Kyle, the ever steady player, cemented his role as a warrior -- playing unbelievable defense and doing all the little things even when his shot wasn't falling.

Nolan -- wow -- the guy just grew up in front of a packed crowd. He had a season for the ages, literally.

It was dissappointing to see Kyrie go down with his injury, not because of the "what ifs" around the tournament, but because I remain curious to see how he and Nolan would have played off eachother throughout the season.

We saw flashes of brilliance from Mason and Miles. The key to their success in my view will be consistency, whether that's at Duke next year or in the NBA should one choose to go.

I'm proud of this team this season. I'm proud this team appeared to genuinely enjoy playing together as a unit. The last two seasons have been remarkeably refreshing.

Best of luck to Nolan, Kyle and Casey. Kyrie and Mason, we'll be here if you choose to open the next act in this drama.

Hope everyone enjoys the offseason and some "free time" -- pumped for October already!

The Gordog
03-25-2011, 10:00 AM
Nothing at all to say. It was a very sad, and very unexpected, end to this season. To have seen this team go through all they did, getting Kyrie back and all, and then this. It was just monstrous all the way around. I still maintain something very strange happened when Seth went down with that injury. We had come out of half time up 6 and hit our first shot to go up by 8. Seth dropped down and got a steal so we had the ball and were up 8 to start the second half. At that exact moment I felt like Duke would assert it's will and we'd win going away - easily! But the Seth went down. He was hurt and helped off the court and we just lost something when he went back to the lockerroom. I don't know if the other team felt like they saw blood in the water and started storming or what, but I'm convinced that injury, as innocent as it seemed at that moment, was the key that changed everything. I'm not sure why it was such a big deal. But I do, with all my heart, believe that was the play that changed the game.

Agree 100%. Seth led this team in steals and was our most deadly 3 point shooter. His injury meant that Nolan could not get a breather to settle down so neither he nor Kyrie had much energy for defence on their guards who then proceeded to kill us. Once down, without him we could not generate the 3-pointer barrage we needed to come back.

I thought when Kyle was getting his elbow stiched up we should have taken a time out. AZ stretched their lead during that time.

Still, a great season. I will miss our Seniors (and any others who may opt to leave early.)

Spret42
03-25-2011, 10:02 AM
100% completely disagree. There is some sort of old saying that you don't need talent to play good defense. Duke scored 77 points. That should be enough to win. The breakdown was on the defensive end. I'll buy maybe Nolan and Kyrie weren't in sync on offense, but that holds no water at the other end of the court.

The problem with that thinking is that it doesn't recognized that defense in basketball isn't a zero-sum game. You can defend perfectly and the other team can still score - a lot. Arizona went nuts in that second half because it had a great player who could score both inside and outside, his teammates played off that, attacked the rim and used the space caused by Williams being a threat from anywhere on the floor to score themselves.

And it does take talent to play good defense. Effort is important, but talent matters.

Faison1
03-25-2011, 10:05 AM
Man, I feel horribly today. I am so bummed I won't get to see Nolan, Kyle, and whoever else again. But as badly as I feel, I know those kids feel even worse. They've given all of us so much to be proud of. I just wish it could've ended a little better for them.

I will also say that the team looked much stroger during the ACC Tourney, but I don't think K had any choice in playing Irving. You HAVE to roll the dice on this one. You can't not play him.

So, here's to you seniors and whoever else decides to enter the draft.....you've given me great joy and pride!

Delmer
03-25-2011, 10:06 AM
Hats off to the guys-

They are all class acts and should hold their heads high- good work this year. Sorry the game didn't turn out differently.

Fighting Ships
03-25-2011, 10:12 AM
After Greg Anthony's post-game comments, there has been some effort for historical analogs to last night's game. Certainly Villanova is a good one just in terms of Duke's opponent lifting their game to a level that our mighty, mighty Blue Devils could not match on the night. But if we get in the way back time machine and set the dial for 1989, the Seton Hall National Semi-Final also comes to mind. Like last night, Duke played very efficiently offensively early and jumped out to a big lead (17 or 18 points, actually). Andrew Gaze--the Gunner from Down Under--found his shot and was unbelievable and Seton Hall ended up winning by a convincing 17 or 18. I remember one columnists wrote that it was the biggest turnaround "since Stalingrad." Amazing how long a good turn of phrase can stay with you.

Understood that last night was not quite as dramatic or drastic in terms of the scale of the comeback, but it had that same feel, like someone had just flipped an hour-glass and now Duke was facing an inevitable and overwhelming rush of sand.

My two cents on the momentum changing play was actually Williams' three just before half-time. Duke played a very,very good half of basketball on the offensive end, were up by a comfortable margin, had momentum going into the break, and then Willams hits that ridiculous shot. I kind of sensed a "what do we have to do to get rid of these guys" attitude seep into the mix--at least it seeped into my living room, which may or may not have had an impact on the game. Jury is still out :)

Fair play to Arizona. Awesome performance.

Thanks and congrats to the whole team on all of the milestones and accomplishments achieved and mostly for representing the university and Duke community in such a fantastic way.

hudlow
03-25-2011, 10:15 AM
GO DUKE!!! What a great run by a great bunch of players who represented Duke with class. Thank-you all very much. GO DUKE!!!

Looking forward to next season.

ABC 9f9f9f

ChicagoHeel
03-25-2011, 10:15 AM
Congratulations on a very good season. It hurts to go out like that, but it doesn't detract from the fact that overall Duke had a season most teams would kill for. Like most UNC fans, I am happy to see Duke the team lose, but I am fairly certain that there are human beings in those uniforms and it was hard to see Smith suffering like that. He is a warrior and I have a lot of respect for him- never want to see someone go out with a bad game like that. My thoughts...

1. Irving is a transcendent talent, but I do not think he improved Duke the team. In both of the last two games, you looked much less cohesive. Maybe this would have happened anyway, as it did against St. Johns, but I thought some of Smith's struggles on both ends of the floor game from adjusting to a new role late in the season. It was a dilemma for K. YOu can't leave your most talented player on the bench, and to be effective KI needs the ball, but giving Irving the ball throws off the momentum Smith spent all year building.

2. Does Duke's pressure defense tire the players out when they play athletic teams? I didn't think you played with a lack of effort or heart in the second half, I just thought you looked exhausted. The team was really sucking wind going into the timeouts.

3. Other than KSU, did you guys have a good road win this year? I can't remember, but I'm pretty sure you lost to the three best ACC teams you played on the road. Odd to see a senior-lead team struggle on the road, but given that tendency it did make a West coast bracket with two West coast teams an uphill climb.

4. It's hard to overstate the value of a pro-level player. Barnes is known for his big shots, but he's also kept us in games early when we've struggled offensively. Obviously, Williams did that last night for Arizon. Minus his heroics, Arizona is down 15-20 at the half and there is no comeback.

Billy Dat
03-25-2011, 10:16 AM
As others have mentioned but not enough people are mentioning, this game was not a complete disaster as we looked awesome in the first half. If Williams doesn't hit that improbable 3 at the buzzer, we are up 9 with lots of momentum, The one guy who was not on in that first half was Nolan, several turnovers and poor shooting.

From a defensive standpoint, I think the problem began with our inability to stop their dribble penetration in the second half. In a lot of the post game interviews, the Arizona guards talked about Miller challenging them to step up in the second half. Knowing we were vulnerable to dribble penetration, those guards started going at us hard knowing that we'd have multiple people watching Williams. They were getting to the rim and getting great looks, or dishes for lay-ups. I think a lot of their rebounding had to do with us giving up those close in shots. Naturally, I couldn't force myself to go back to the DVR to see who was getting "blown by", whether it was Nolan or Kyrie, but I assume it had to be both of them.

Once they erased that lead, I agree that it just felt like they could do no wrong. It became their night. It's interesting that they smacked us aroud but we were still sitting within 10 with tons of time left, but we had no bullets left. That was the most surprising thing of all. I agree with those who said we feel like WVU must have felt last year. I really hope Arizona justifies this by going on a run. The Arizona kid posting on this board said it was the best half he's seen them play in 30 years. Great.

As for the reintroduction of Kyrie and Nolan, I am not sure what to think. To me, Kyrie's play backed up his re-integration. I guess I thought Nolan would respond better. There were plenty of times in the second half when he was controling the ball and we were running our typical ball screen action for him, but he couldn't make anything happen. Nolan was our MVP this year, our all everything, it was just horrendous timing that he turned in his worst performance of the year in the biggest game of the year.

As for the bigs, we got nothing from Kelly but Mason really showed me something. He still has no offensive game, but I felt like he went really hard and kept sticking his nose in there, fighting. Kyle was battling to the end, he just got gassed. That cut elbow did seem like a turning of the tide.

I guess it's Anyone but Carolina time.

Reddevil
03-25-2011, 10:20 AM
It's always tough when the journey ends a little too soon, BUT Duke did not lose the game. K was NOT outcoached. The Singler dive had NOTHING to do with it. Duke was playing reasonably well. Arizona simply played one of the most amazing halves of college basketball ever. The Duke team was almost irrelevant. They just happened to be the team in the way at the time. We've seen the guys in proper blue do this on occasion. The Frank Martin quote applied to the AZ Wildcats last night. This was Arizona's time for some reason. They certainly have never played that well before, so there was no reason to see it coming. When a team gets going like that, the wheels are going to fall off simply because the other guys are on another level. It made Duke look bad, but in reality Arizona was just on fire. The play where Kyle had to dive to stop a layup was just a symptom. After all, this followed a Duke turnover. It had already begun.

It seemed like Arizona and then UConn would probably be "doable", and a final four could be achieved. Coach K would tie Coach Knight, and an ending there would be relatively satisfying. Last night's loss made us all wonder "what if?" How would the team have melded if Kyrie had not gotten hurt? What would the dynamic of Nolan and Kyrie have grown into? What if Texas had beaten AZ?....and many more. Arizona played out of their minds for 20 minutes, and there was nothing any team could have done. The 2010/2011 Blue Devils will just have to go down as a sweet 16 edition, ACC Champions, and 32 game winners. We got to see National Champions Kyle and Nolan compete again, and the future looks bright. We can feel good about that. That said, the sooner unc-ch loses the better!

toooskies
03-25-2011, 10:22 AM
I felt like we lost this game much like we lost the lead in the Michigan game: we went small and tried to adjust to them, when what we were doing was already working.

Another poster said that we missed Lance Thomas, and I think that that's pretty accurate. We needed an athletic 4 to play adequate defense on Williams, and we didn't have one. It makes me ponder whether Hairston could have done the job better than Kyle.

It was clear we were getting out-rebounded the entire second half. The lack of rebounding hurt us more than not being able to guard Williams.

Of course, the way Arizona played in the second half, I think they could've beaten any team in the country yesterday. They got all the bounces, made the hustle plays, made their shots, and crashed the boards. Give them credit.

I'll probably continue to think up reasons that Duke didn't win last night, but only because I'm trying to rationalize my emotional response to losing not just a game, but losing a great senior class, in a way that doesn't do them justice. We got to enjoy them for four years, and we hoped we'd have them for just a few more games. But, it wasn't to be.

Good luck, seniors, as well as Kyrie and Mason if you choose to go pro-- we wish you all long, successful careers doing what you enjoy. For everyone on the team... Next play.

_Gary
03-25-2011, 10:30 AM
To take the Seton Hall analogy one step further, both games seemingly turned on a Duke injury. In '89 it was an injury to Robert Brickey, and last night it was a seemingly harmless injury to Seth Curry. At both points Duke was in control and yet lost momentum they could never regain when those players went out.

I really believe the game was lost on the defensive side in the 2nd half with the dribble penetration we kept giving up. I knew that has solid as Kyrie was on the offensive end, it was his defensive prowess that wouldn't come back so quickly. He was lights out in terms of being able to stay in front of his man before the injury, but he never regained that when he came back. And that's to be expected and no one should hold it against him. All the guards were getting blown by last night and that did lead to a ton of easy layups, put-backs, and some wide open threes. It was just one of those nights where the other team was not going to be denied. But if I were to lay the blame anywhere it would be on the defense not being able to stop dribble penetration. That was the glaring weakness and not having Seth available didn't help, that's for sure!

I love this team and want to say "Thank you" to the seniors and encourage them to keep their heads held high! You guys have brought us many wonderful memories and you were champions this year (ACC Tourney champs beating the guys down the road, no less)!!! Take care, guys. You'll be missed.

devildeac
03-25-2011, 10:39 AM
After Greg Anthony's post-game comments, there has been some effort for historical analogs to last night's game. Certainly Villanova is a good one just in terms of Duke's opponent lifting their game to a level that our mighty, mighty Blue Devils could not match on the night. But if we get in the way back time machine and set the dial for 1989, the Seton Hall National Semi-Final also comes to mind. Like last night, Duke played very efficiently offensively early and jumped out to a big lead (17 or 18 points, actually). Andrew Gaze--the Gunner from Down Under--found his shot and was unbelievable and Seton Hall ended up winning by a convincing 17 or 18. I remember one columnists wrote that it was the biggest turnaround "since Stalingrad." Amazing how long a good turn of phrase can stay with you.

Understood that last night was not quite as dramatic or drastic in terms of the scale of the comeback, but it had that same feel, like someone had just flipped an hour-glass and now Duke was facing an inevitable and overwhelming rush of sand.

My two cents on the momentum changing play was actually Williams' three just before half-time. Duke played a very,very good half of basketball on the offensive end, were up by a comfortable margin, had momentum going into the break, and then Willams hits that ridiculous shot. I kind of sensed a "what do we have to do to get rid of these guys" attitude seep into the mix--at least it seeped into my living room, which may or may not have had an impact on the game. Jury is still out :)

Fair play to Arizona. Awesome performance.

Thanks and congrats to the whole team on all of the milestones and accomplishments achieved and mostly for representing the university and Duke community in such a fantastic way.

IIRC, another thing that really hurt in that loss was losing Brickey fairly early to what I recall as being a rather rough/dirty foul. The substitution pattern was really buggered up by that play, too.

dairedevil
03-25-2011, 10:39 AM
But if we get in the way back time machine and set the dial for 1989, the Seton Hall National Semi-Final also comes to mind. Like last night, Duke played very efficiently offensively early and jumped out to a big lead (17 or 18 points, actually). Andrew Gaze--the Gunner from Down Under--found his shot and was unbelievable and Seton Hall ended up winning by a convincing 17 or 18. I remember one columnists wrote that it was the biggest turnaround "since Stalingrad." Amazing how long a good turn of phrase can stay with you.

That game is similar in other ways, as well...NPOY Danny Ferry's last game winds up as a painful loss. the score was even similar - 95-78. But I'll NEVER forget seeing Robert Brickey go down with an injury (undercut) and not make it back in the game. Duke just wasn't the same with him gone - much as Seth's injury caused problems last night. Duke just wasn't the same after he left and couldn't come back.

Obviously, I'm not the only one to make this observation. I had to leave the computer for a few minutes and others beat me to the punch.....

Now, I just feel a little empty - I'll have to find something to fill that time until the next season begins...

My thanks to all the team - and I wish each of them well as they follow their dreams.

devildeac
03-25-2011, 10:45 AM
To take the Seton Hall analogy one step further, both games seemingly turned on a Duke injury. In '89 it was an injury to Robert Brickey, and last night it was a seemingly harmless injury to Seth Curry. At both points Duke was in control and yet lost momentum they could never regain when those players went out.

I really believe the game was lost on the defensive side in the 2nd half with the dribble penetration we kept giving up. I knew that has solid as Kyrie was on the offensive end, it was his defensive prowess that wouldn't come back so quickly. He was lights out in terms of being able to stay in front of his man before the injury, but he never regained that when he came back. And that's to be expected and no one should hold it against him. All the guards were getting blown by last night and that did lead to a ton of easy layups, put-backs, and some wide open threes. It was just one of those nights where the other team was not going to be denied. But if I were to lay the blame anywhere it would be on the defense not being able to stop dribble penetration. That was the glaring weakness and not having Seth available didn't help, that's for sure!

I love this team and want to say "Thank you" to the seniors and encourage them to keep their heads held high! You guys have brought us many wonderful memories and you were champions this year (ACC Tourney champs beating the guys down the road, no less)!!! Take care, guys. You'll be missed.

Makes you wonder just a bit why we didn't go to our 1-3-1 zone when we got behind in the 2nd half. Now wait a minute, where have I heard/seen that before...

Nah. Never mind.:(

hurley1
03-25-2011, 10:45 AM
Arizona wanted it more than duke.........duke had a 6 point lead at halftime and arizona came back out and did what they had to do to win........it is wat it is........

COYS
03-25-2011, 10:52 AM
Arizona simply played one of the most amazing halves of college basketball ever. The Duke team was almost irrelevant. They just happened to be the team in the way at the time. We've seen the guys in proper blue do this on occasion. The Frank Martin quote applied to the AZ Wildcats last night. This was Arizona's time for some reason. They certainly have never played that well before, so there was no reason to see it coming. When a team gets going like that, the wheels are going to fall off simply because the other guys are on another level. It made Duke look bad, but in reality Arizona was just on fire. The play where Kyle had to dive to stop a layup was just a symptom. After all, this followed a Duke turnover. It had already begun.



This cannot be stated enough. Our guys never quit. They never gave up their intensity. Were there things we could have done better? Of course. But basically, we played great defense with a few lapses here and there for the first half and a very good bit of the second half. However, Zona kept making tough shot after tough shot, got all the lucky bounces, frustrated our guys with their excellent play, and things snowballed from there to the point where were completely helpless. Quite frankly, Zona dominated us like we dominated WVU last year. It happens. We posted our highest offensive efficiency mark of the year against WVU last year, and that includes all of our games against cupcakes. Does this mean WVU was THAT bad on defense or that they didn't give any effort? No, it meant that we played the best game of the season against them.

Zona did the same thing to us last night. All their players got hot in the second half. Their offensive efficiency mark of 1.33 ppp was second only to a performance against Idaho St. Does this mean we played defense as badly as Idaho state? No way. They simply exploited every little mistake we made (when did they miss an open three after we were slow to rotate?), they scored even when we played excellent D, and we had absolutely no luck to going for us to give us a boost. This is the nature of a single-elimination tourney and the result shouldn't color our outlook on the team's effort, ability, or accomplishments. We weren't "exposed" and the team wasn't chronically flawed in some way. We simply got beat by a team that was playing on a different plane and we needed an equally otherworldly performance in order to prevail. No amount of effort, focus, or will from our players can summon a performance like that on demand and last night, it just didn't happen.

hurleyfor3
03-25-2011, 10:58 AM
Zona did the same thing to us last night. All their players got hot in the second half. Their offensive efficiency mark of 1.33 ppp was second only to a performance against Idaho St.

Do you know what Zona's efficiency was in the second half? It felt like they scored on EVERY possession.

TobaMom
03-25-2011, 10:59 AM
After watching the post game press conference this morning, I feel compelled to say that I continue to be proud to be a Duke fan. Coach K, Nolan and Kyle were able to set aside their disappointment and sorrow to answer questions in a polite and intelligent manner.

Duke played well, Arizona played better. (Yes, they played MUCH better in the second half.) My thanks to the players for laying it all out there for another season, and as always, to Coach K and the entire staff for leading with excellence and bringing honor to our alma matter. GO DUKE!!!!!

Rudy
03-25-2011, 11:00 AM
Two days ago many in this fan base were griping about stall ball tactics that almost lost to Michigan. Now I see complaints that we should have taken the air out of the ball at the start of the second half. Good Grief Charlie Brown!

With about 3 minutes to go and the game out of reach, I checked the team stats. Arizona was 9/13 from the 3 for 69% (two misses during garbage time dropped the whole game % down to a mere 60%). I thought our guys were working hard on defense but AZ's shots were just falling. As that was happening you could tell, even on tv that our guys were tightening up -- hands became harder so rebounds bounced off them and the ball squirted out of them on drives and passes. Our team rarely tightens up so much that it gets overwhelmed but it happened last night.

I watched the ACC tourney in person from low level seats and noticed during several remarkable turnarounds that players, even good ones, can tighten up when their confidence is shaken. They can go from shooting great and handling the ball great to putting up bricks and fumbling the ball. When you're working hard and the other team's tough shots still fall over 2/3 of the time it wears on you, makes you press a little harder to respond on the other end.

We looked like world beaters in the ACC tourney because the ACC as a whole isn't as good as the Sweet 16, especially this year. UNC had a horrible tournament and were lucky to get to the final. FSU lost to VaTech for goodness sake. I'm glad for the league that our four teams acquitted themselves well in this tournament but the level of competition here is just higher than what we faced most of the year.

I was feeling so great in the first half. Kyle's first two 3 pointers were good and on one of the close ups his big smile showing he was having fun again was great to see. Then, Kyrie began to light things up, showing he can be unstoppable again, then Seth hit some shots, Mason blocked some shots, Miles made a couple of buckets and I thought everything was falling into place. We just needed Nolan to get on track, as he almost always did this season when he started slowly. But it never happened and he ended up 3/14 from the field.

Arizona just played great. The biggest surprise wasn't their offense, everyone said they were good and their offense looked good in the few times I watched them this year. The biggest surprise was their defensive intensity. They get the credit for winning this game with a superior, above their heads performance. I hope they crush UConn and OSU. (My bracket is hopelessly shot anyway.)

So sad for this team, especially Kyle and Nolan. But those two gave us four great years and one national championship. Thanks guys and good luck at the next level.

(Psst! Hey Kyrie, ask Nolan and Kyle before you make your decision if they regret staying for one more year.)

CharlestonDevil
03-25-2011, 11:01 AM
The problem with that thinking is that it doesn't recognized that defense in basketball isn't a zero-sum game. You can defend perfectly and the other team can still score - a lot. Arizona went nuts in that second half because it had a great player who could score both inside and outside, his teammates played off that, attacked the rim and used the space caused by Williams being a threat from anywhere on the floor to score themselves.

And it does take talent to play good defense. Effort is important, but talent matters.

Thanks Spret. My point exactly. Williams' shot at the end of the first half is the perfect example.

Duke may have given up in the 2nd half, and the defensive intensity was certainly part of it, Duke was fighting too much roster/PT/role/leadership adjustment to overcome a team with that much determination in it.

J4Kop99
03-25-2011, 11:02 AM
I just can't get over the 19-2 run in just under 5 minutes... that is unreal.

Upsetting to see Nolan go out without a fight. He just couldn't mesh with kyrie after Irving's return.

_Gary
03-25-2011, 11:13 AM
Upsetting to see Nolan go out without a fight. He just couldn't mesh with kyrie after Irving's return.

NOTE: What I'm about to say is absolutely not directed at an individual poster. This is about a subsection of this board that keeps bringing up what is quoted above. So please, no one think I'm getting on you personally. I'm not.

I see several people saying this but I vehemently disagree that Kyrie being back with the team was somehow a bad thing or that he and Nolan couldn't co-exist because they both needed the ball in their hands. Sure, there's always going to be some amount of reintegration when a player comes back after missing 3 months of action, but that was N-O-T the reason we lost last night. We lost, first and foremost, because AZ played out of their freakin' minds. If anyone wants to find a secondary reason then it has to fall to lack of rebounding and giving up too many 2nd chance points. Thirdly would be an inability to stop dribble penetration in the second half. But Kyrie and Nolan supposedly not being able to play together is bogus as far as I'm concerned. That may have played into the loss by about 1% out of all the other things that contributed. It was NOT a big deal and frankly I think it's a discredit to both players to keep harping on that.

COYS
03-25-2011, 11:14 AM
Do you know what Zona's efficiency was in the second half? It felt like they scored on EVERY possession.

I don't know a place to grab that info quickly. I can figure it out exactly if I have the time (or the will) to look at the second half play-by-play. For a rough estimate, though, their efficiency in the first half was about 1.12. If the second half had roughly the same number of possessions and they raised their overall average to 1.33, I would imagine that their efficiency in the second half must have been around 1.50-1.54. Or, to guess another way, there were 70 possessions in the game. If they are divided evenly, that means 35 possessions in the second half led to 55 points or about 1.57 ppp. No matter what the answer, their offensive performance was so ridiculously good that it cannot be explained away by blaming our defense. I actually thought our defense was pretty good until they broke our will midway through the second half. Plus, their mark of 60% from three (with two misses coming in garbage time) is better than they would shoot in a gym during practice with no defense. It was just an amazing offensive performance.

Onlyduke
03-25-2011, 11:16 AM
It was a tale of two very different halves. If you heard the Arizona coach's interview after the first half, he lamented the fact that Duke was getting second chances at baskets. I think he challenged his team to change that in the second half .... and they obviously responded.

Saratoga2
03-25-2011, 11:19 AM
First of all, this has been a very good season. Thirty one wins, ACC tournment title, made the sweet 16. Those are things to be proud of and feel good about.

I think we were all optimistic because we have been playing well and Kyrie was making strides. There was the thought that this was the year, with two excellent seniors and Kyrie back and the rest of the team playing fairly well. The sky was the limit.

That optimism was a little guarded seeing that we were playing on the road, were playing a team like St Johns and FSU, only better scorers. In the semi-finals, all teams are quite a challenge, but Arizona was the kind of team we have struggled with.

The game:

We actually played a good first half offensively but so did Arizona. That shot Williams made against Ryan at the end of the half was hard to believe. Ryan played the best defense yet it went in.

I was a little surprised to see Seth start, since he supposedly had a hip pointer and he did not match up particularly well. Kyle played an excellent half but did get into foul trouble and looked to be tiring down the stretch. I am not certain, but the Arizona defense on him seemed a little more intense in the second half.

Kyrie did play 31 minutes and was the main bright spot for us in the second half. They really had no answer for him but we needed more from others and we needed to play defense and rebound.

One of our main weaknesses this year was our inside game. We just could not rebound with the aggressive and quick Arizona team. It wasn't even close. Our inside offensive plays were not good either since none of our bigs was able to score inside without being setup by Kyrie. Kyle did show his quality with a great inside move, but he didn't seem to have a lot left in his tank.

Nolan just was off in the game. He couldn't get free for many shots and had a bunch of turnovers, 6 of which were credited to him. I did think Andre did a decent job and he was able to score 9 points efficiently. Tyler was overplaying and picking up fouls.

In general, we looked tired in the second half and they couldn't miss, and when they did, they got second and third chances.

Too bad to end the season that way. I have nothing but admiration for the Duke players and coaches. We run a clean program and are always more than competitive.

Thinking forward, we are losing our two top scorers and defenders and are probably losing Kyrie, maybe the best point guard in the country. In addition, there is a possibility of losing Mason. This team will need to be reinvented. We will have excellent new but young talent coming but we also will need to replace about 60 points of our offense and train new players to handle the Duke man to man defense. We will start the year as more of an underdog than usual, so it should be interesting. I look forward to the discussions in the period leading up to next season.

buzz
03-25-2011, 11:20 AM
I wouldn't lay the blame on Kyrie's re-integration. I mean, tell me you didn't say to yourself at least once 'Kyrie's back!' during the first half. I think K sensed that he needed to go for the jugular early, and he went with the hot hand (Kyrie). No regrets - his performance was enough to apply the knockout punch to a good number of teams. Unfortunately, Arizona (and Williams especially) wasn't to be denied. They elevated to another level in the 2nd half, and that was that.

cruxer
03-25-2011, 11:22 AM
I just can't get over the 19-2 run in just under 5 minutes... that is unreal.

Interesting to see how momentum could have shifted during this run had this (http://youtu.be/8Mg5NEUg8ac)not been called a foul.

-c

Scorp4me
03-25-2011, 11:23 AM
Several of you have already said the same thing, I noticed reddevil and vinctaylor, but I'd like to say it as well. And I'm saying my thoughts so it may be out of order.

I don't feel bad this morning. I didn't feel bad last night. K wasn't outcoached. Duke wasn't out hustled. Arizona played out of their mind. Did you see the shots? They couldn't miss. Drive to the land step back falling away Singler in your face, nothing but net. Long distance 3 time running down at the end of the half, Kelly in your face and body and arms and everthing, nothing but net. They were on fire. You won't see a shooting display like that for...well, the Harlem Globetrotters. You can't beat that. Another team in the field couldn't beat it. West Virginia last year couldn't beat it and Kentucky before them. Duke last year couldn't have beat it. Carolina in 09 couldn't have beat it. UNLV in 90 couldn't have beat it and Duke in 91 couldn't have beat it. It was a shooting display for the ages and the stats don't even tell half the story.

And sometimes rebounding is about position, about heart and determination. Sometimes it's just about the ball bouncing the wrong way. I mean did you see the ball bounce. Over half of what they missed they simply tipped in. I mean, I don't know what they're drinking but it might as well be liquid luck and I want some. Name a factor you would consider "luck" that went Duke's way. Crazy shots? Injuries? Tough calls? They had it all.

And yes it was a bad loss but that was because Duke didn't give up. You can't slow the game down when you play good D and they still score. You have to try to make something happen. The large score was in part due to Duke not quitting. We could have lost by less, but lost we would have.

And I don't care if Kyrie is back or not. As someone said this has nothing to do with Kyrie or no Kyrie. We got beat. And that's not taking anything away from them. I don't see them doing it again and winning it all, but they did it last night. Live by the 3, die by the 3. Last night we died by the 3...it just wasn't "our 3" in the way that term is usually applied to Duke.

I just don't feel bad. I mean really, I don't. I found myself wanting the Wildcats to keep making those shots just to prove my point. And guess what, they did! So I have no qualms with Nolan or Kyle, or Kyrie, or Coach K, or Duke or anything. It was a heck of a game and I hate to come out on the losing end of it, but any team not named Arizona was going to come out on the losing end of that game. Mistakes were made ,sure. Things I would have done different, maybe. But it wouldn't have changed the outcome.

I'm excited for Duke football season (my apologies to baseball just not a fan) and of course things are looking great for next year. And for the first year in a while I don't feel like our season hinges on someone returning or not yet year. If they do it just makes it that much sweeter.

moonpie23
03-25-2011, 11:24 AM
i'm pretty sure kyrie still on the bench would have made AZ miss most of that 62% from the floor they were torching us with... :rolleyes:

that said......AZ just kicked our butts last night......no way around that.....

hats off to them.........

thanks to our team for all the thrills of another great season......disappointing end? sure......not the season...

GO DUKE

J4Kop99
03-25-2011, 11:28 AM
NOTE: What I'm about to say is absolutely not directed at an individual poster. This is about a subsection of this board that keeps bringing up what is quoted above. So please, no one think I'm getting on you personally. I'm not.

I see several people saying this but I vehemently disagree that Kyrie being back with the team was somehow a bad thing or that he and Nolan couldn't co-exist because they both needed the ball in their hands. Sure, there's always going to be some amount of reintegration when a player comes back after missing 3 months of action, but that was N-O-T the reason we lost last night. We lost, first and foremost, because AZ played out of their freakin' minds. If anyone wants to find a secondary reason then it has to fall to lack of rebounding and giving up too many 2nd chance points. Thirdly would be an inability to stop dribble penetration in the second half. But Kyrie and Nolan supposedly not being able to play together is bogus as far as I'm concerned. That may have played into the loss by about 1% out of all the other things that contributed. It was NOT a big deal and frankly I think it's a discredit to both players to keep harping on that.

I completely respect your opinion and in no way am I blaming the loss entirely on the Nolan Smith-Kyrie Irving factor.

However, after watching these past 3 games, how can you not say that they had some trouble meshing together? They both seemed confused in the first two games and Kyrie even stated that he was a little hesitant because he didn't want to mess up the chemistry. In our final game, Nolan was non-existent. He couldn't get into any groove and was off all night. Irving, on the other hand, took initiative and attempted to take over the game. He drove the lane, shot the ball and was our go-to guy on offense.

Now, you may believe Nolan's tough game was due to some other factor, I do not. Instead, I think that it had a lot to due with him not having the ball enough. Nolan was forced to become a perimeter player and that's not his game. Combine that with the fact that i don't think we ran one actual set play in the 2nd half and you get a Nolan Smith who doesn't know his role in the offense.

If you don't think Kyrie was the reason for Nolan's poor game, then what's your explanation? Arizona's defense on him wasn't anything special, he just couldn't get in rhythm.

J4Kop99
03-25-2011, 11:30 AM
Interesting to see how momentum could have shifted during this run had this (http://youtu.be/8Mg5NEUg8ac)not been called a foul.

-c

Yeah, I don't want to bring up any non-calls, because in all honesty, I don't know how big of an effect they would have had... but, that call you pointed out and the one where they said Singler pushed williams out-of-bounds, were two that I strongly disagreed with. Both calls occurred during the run and helped Arizona continue the momentum.

Spam Filter
03-25-2011, 11:30 AM
I think the best way to get over this game is to think about last year WVU game.

There was no way Duke was 20 points better than WVU last year, but we were that night, because we couldn't miss. We made a very good WVU team look hapless.

Last night we were on the receiving end of the same dynamic. This is the nature of the one and done. Any given night you can play out of your mind and take down a giant, or you can run into a buzzsaw.

Billy Dat
03-25-2011, 11:35 AM
Interesting to see how momentum could have shifted during this run had this (http://youtu.be/8Mg5NEUg8ac)not been called a foul.

-c

A couple of things about that play:
-6'7" Jamelle Horne blows by Nolan Smith as if he's not even there. That kind of summed up our second half defense against dribble penetration
-Horne and Williams really resemble each other, and both play an explosive style game. I'd always feel a little relieved to see Williams going to the bench, and then I'd see Horne make a play like that and I'd think I was seeing a ghost. It added to the overall confusing and helpless feeling I was experiencing in my living room.
-Mason showed me a lot of toughness last night. I thought he fought hard. I hope he comes back.

ChicagoHeel
03-25-2011, 11:36 AM
NOTE: What I'm about to say is absolutely not directed at an individual poster. This is about a subsection of this board that keeps bringing up what is quoted above. So please, no one think I'm getting on you personally. I'm not.

I see several people saying this but I vehemently disagree that Kyrie being back with the team was somehow a bad thing or that he and Nolan couldn't co-exist because they both needed the ball in their hands. Sure, there's always going to be some amount of reintegration when a player comes back after missing 3 months of action, but that was N-O-T the reason we lost last night. We lost, first and foremost, because AZ played out of their freakin' minds. If anyone wants to find a secondary reason then it has to fall to lack of rebounding and giving up too many 2nd chance points. Thirdly would be an inability to stop dribble penetration in the second half. But Kyrie and Nolan supposedly not being able to play together is bogus as far as I'm concerned. That may have played into the loss by about 1% out of all the other things that contributed. It was NOT a big deal and frankly I think it's a discredit to both players to keep harping on that.

To say that Kyrie's integration threw off Duke's rhythm is not to ignore the fact that Arizona played well. I haven't seen anybody place this loss on a single factor or say that KI's reintegration is the sole or even primary reason you lost. When you lose that badly, there are inevitably going to be multiple reasons. And it was pretty obvious that the biggest factor was a lack of inside scoring presence, which has been the case for Duke in many losses in recent years.

That being said, my sense from watching the game was that Duke was offensively out of rhythm. Part of the reason for the offensive struggles seemed to be the challenge of reintegrating KI. Smith looked unsure; he had more TOs than FGs and the shooters didn't get the ball in good position. The offensive struggles for Smith, as is often the case, undermined the defense (and vice versa). I also think some of the dribble penetration was due to KI's rust on the defensive end.

Given Arizona's performance, Duke may very well have lost the game regardless of KI. But I do not think it is "bogus" to assert that KI's reintegration not only failed to provide the panacea that many were hoping for, but may have actually failed to improve the team.

Rudy
03-25-2011, 11:43 AM
Interesting to see how momentum could have shifted during this run had this (http://youtu.be/8Mg5NEUg8ac)not been called a foul.

-c

Of course that was a foul. Mason got all ball but he crunched the guy with his follow through. I was hoping it would fuel a turnaround in our favor anyway, sort of like an intimidation "Not while I'm here are you dunking" move. But, not to be . . . .

How do I find the post-game presser (full clip, not just WRAL's edited version) ?

DukieInBrasil
03-25-2011, 11:46 AM
NOTE: What I'm about to say is absolutely not directed at an individual poster. This is about a subsection of this board that keeps bringing up what is quoted above. So please, no one think I'm getting on you personally. I'm not.

I see several people saying this but I vehemently disagree that Kyrie being back with the team was somehow a bad thing or that he and Nolan couldn't co-exist because they both needed the ball in their hands. Sure, there's always going to be some amount of reintegration when a player comes back after missing 3 months of action, but that was N-O-T the reason we lost last night. We lost, first and foremost, because AZ played out of their freakin' minds. If anyone wants to find a secondary reason then it has to fall to lack of rebounding and giving up too many 2nd chance points. Thirdly would be an inability to stop dribble penetration in the second half. But Kyrie and Nolan supposedly not being able to play together is bogus as far as I'm concerned. That may have played into the loss by about 1% out of all the other things that contributed. It was NOT a big deal and frankly I think it's a discredit to both players to keep harping on that.

Kyrie was not to blame for Nolan missing lay-ups at the rim or for Nolan throwing the ball away repeatedly. Kyrie was not to blame for Nolan playing a terrible game. Nolan's play was very uncharacteristic for him, not in a tangible way, but in that he never looked like he was in the game mentally. He has played games where he has shot poorly or had lots of turns, or even both, but vs AZ his defense was terrible, his shooting was terrible and his decision-making was terrible. Not sure how those things can be correlated to Kyrie. Kyrie, OTOH, played quite well, at least statistically.
Nolan had a wonderful season and has had a great career at Duke. I'm glad that he has shown himself to be a winner and a young man of tremendous heart. It's really sad that his last game in a Duke uni had to be such a bad game for him personally.

COYS
03-25-2011, 11:48 AM
To say that Kyrie's integration threw off Duke's rhythm is not to ignore the fact that Arizona played well. I haven't seen anybody place this loss on a single factor or say that KI's reintegration is the sole or even primary reason you lost. When you lose that badly, there are inevitably going to be multiple reasons. And it was pretty obvious that the biggest factor was a lack of inside scoring presence, which has been the case for Duke in many losses in recent years.

That being said, my sense from watching the game was that Duke was offensively out of rhythm. Part of the reason for the offensive struggles seemed to be the challenge of reintegrating KI. Smith looked unsure; he had more TOs than FGs and the shooters didn't get the ball in good position. The offensive struggles for Smith, as is often the case, undermined the defense (and vice versa). I also think some of the dribble penetration was due to KI's rust on the defensive end.

Given Arizona's performance, Duke may very well have lost the game regardless of KI. But I do not think it is "bogus" to assert that KI's reintegration not only failed to provide the panacea that many were hoping for, but may have actually failed to improve the team.

But your analysis also ignores the fact that Duke played a GREAT first half on offense . . . no not as good of a half as Zona had on offense in the second half . . . but it was very, very good. 1.27 points per possession good. Nolan was out of rhythm on his jumper and looked hesitant on his drives, but this was true from the very start of the game before Kyrie even entered the game. His turnovers were almost all from drives into traffic or poorly timed passes to the Plumlees in the post while driving through traffic that had nothing to do with Kyrie (and many of them came with Kyrie out). Perhaps Kyrie being in the lineup made it harder for Nolan to settle down, but Nolan had a bad game in ways that Kyrie could not affect.

Besides, this also overlooks the fact that the reverse argument is just as convincing: that Kyrie picked up the slack on a night when Nolan just didn't have it. Kyrie had an outstanding 28 points in 16 FGA with 3 assists and 1 turnover. With Nolan having an off night, the game could just have easily been even more lopsided if Kyrie hadn't played.

cruxer
03-25-2011, 11:51 AM
To say that Kyrie's integration threw off Duke's rhythm is not to ignore the fact that Arizona played well.

Hate to agree with a Heel :cool:, but *this*. Additionally success or failure at getting Kyrie re-integrated doesn't mean that bringing him back was a mistake. He's too talented not to play him if he's healthy, since the team's upside with him was so high. That said, it certainly was a gamble, but one worth taking.

I usually tune out the tourney once we lose, but Derrick Williams was so special last night that I honestly can't wait to see him play again! UConn/Zona willl be a nice matchup Saturday.

-c

pfrduke
03-25-2011, 11:55 AM
Do you know what Zona's efficiency was in the second half? It felt like they scored on EVERY possession.

The second half play-by-play is up on the Arizona official site. They had 36 second half possessions and scored 55 points, good for 1.53 ppp. They scored on 27 of the 36 possessions, so your impression was not far off. They had 4 turnovers and we had just 6 defensive rebounds in the second half.*

*The reason that adds up to 10, rather than 9, is that Arizona had a possession in which they both scored and had a turnover - Williams went 1-2 at the line, Arizona got the offensive rebound, and then they turned it over.

Curt
03-25-2011, 11:57 AM
Yeah, I don't want to bring up any non-calls, because in all honesty, I don't know how big of an effect they would have had... but, that call you pointed out and the one where they said Singler pushed williams out-of-bounds, were two that I strongly disagreed with. Both calls occurred during the run and helped Arizona continue the momentum.
Love Duke, pretty sure thats a foul

moonpie23
03-25-2011, 11:58 AM
i felt a big momentum swing when kyle hit the floor for that elbow burn and tried to get back in the game, but the ref sent him back......23 pointed out that blood as well...

it was a few more possessions before kyle could get back in the game and i just thought that was a mo swing...


ugh.....just a bad game...



i feel bad for the guys.....

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
03-25-2011, 12:01 PM
What can you say? Some times you get thumped. The second half was completely uncharacteristic of what we expect from our team on both ends of the floor.

It reminded me the most of the 'Nova game - our guys just seemed a step slow on defense and were unable to put a foot in front of anyone penetrating...

Between not being able to get a hand in anyone's face, seemingly forgetting how to box out on the boards, AZ shooting completely lights out, and our lengthy cold stretch in the second half... it was ugly.

Arizona played nearly a perfect game, and Duke played one of the most forgettable halves of the last ten years.

These things happen - I agree that it was similar to WVU's game last year (thank goodness we didn't have a terrible injury like they did). Sometimes you get the poop end of the stick.

A disappointing end to a very good season. I still wouldn't trade being a Duke fan for anything. I've loved watching this team.

Let's see what happens over the next few weeks and start planning for next year.

Billy Dat
03-25-2011, 12:01 PM
But your analysis also ignores the fact that Duke played a GREAT first half on offense . . . no not as good of a half as Zona had on offense in the second half . . . but it was very, very good. 1.27 points per possession good. Nolan was out of rhythm on his jumper and looked hesitant on his drives, but this was true from the very start of the game before Kyrie even entered the game. His turnovers were almost all from drives into traffic or poorly timed passes to the Plumlees in the post while driving through traffic that had nothing to do with Kyrie (and many of them came with Kyrie out). Perhaps Kyrie being in the lineup made it harder for Nolan to settle down, but Nolan had a bad game in ways that Kyrie could not affect.

Besides, this also overlooks the fact that the reverse argument is just as convincing: that Kyrie picked up the slack on a night when Nolan just didn't have it. Kyrie had an outstanding 28 points in 16 FGA with 3 assists and 1 turnover. With Nolan having an off night, the game could just have easily been even more lopsided if Kyrie hadn't played.

Bringing Kyrie back changed things, obviously. We can argue all day about whether it was for the better or for the worse. Because of how things turned out, and the way we played against UNC in the ACC tourney title game, there will be a large contingent that will feel that we should not have brought Kyrie back at all. We know that the Hampton game was meaningless because we beat them so badly. In the Michigan game, everyone will point to Nolan's brilliance when he took over early in the second half, and the confusion at the end of the game. Last night, everyone will also point to Kyrie's brilliant first half and Nolan's bad game. But what can be reasonably concluded from those realities? That Kyrie screwed up Nolan and our offensive identity? That against Arizona, sans Kyrie, everyone else makes up for his 28 points and we hold them to 20 fewer points because we have a more cohesive defense? I don't know about all that.

Rudy
03-25-2011, 12:02 PM
How do I find the post-game presser (full clip, not just WRAL's edited version) ?
Found it. http://www.ncaa.com/menshighlights/?DB_OEM_ID=4200&c=turner_mmod_mens_pressers&p=514353&s=5081160&i=919907

COYS
03-25-2011, 12:09 PM
Bringing Kyrie back changed things, obviously. We can argue all day about whether it was for the better or for the worse. Because of how things turned out, and the way we played against UNC in the ACC tourney title game, there will be a large contingent that will feel that we should not have brought Kyrie back at all. We know that the Hampton game was meaningless because we beat them so badly. In the Michigan game, everyone will point to Nolan's brilliance when he took over early in the second half, and the confusion at the end of the game. Last night, everyone will also point to Kyrie's brilliant first half and Nolan's bad game. But what can be reasonably concluded from those realities? That Kyrie screwed up Nolan and our offensive identity? That against Arizona, sans Kyrie, everyone else makes up for his 28 points and we hold them to 20 fewer points because we have a more cohesive defense? I don't know about all that.

That was exactly my point. We will never know the what ifs. The stats from the game can be used to demonstrate both sides of the argument. To me, the overwhelming fact is that Arizona played a great game and it would have taken everyone on Duke's team playing at the highest level to have won.

ncexnyc
03-25-2011, 12:09 PM
Coach K has 900 wins, but only 4 championships. That shows how hard it is to win it all. We had a very good season, but I'll remember it as the "Season of what if." I haven't watched the game and don't know if I will. While following at work things seemed to be going so well until we got to 53-53, and the next thing I know we're suddenly down 7 and I've got tar ho jerks yelling at me. I get out to the car, turn on the radio and we cut it to 8 or 10, but suddenly it's back to a 17 point deficit. Talk about deja vu. The last ride I experienced like that was the night Nova trounced us, it just seemed nothing went right.

It's unfortunate the game ended like it did and I really feel bad for Kyle and Nolan. Going out like that has to hurt a lot than if you loose in a close game. Both kids had great careers and I wish them the best in the future. If Kyrie decides to go, I wish him well too. He has a very bright future ahead of him.

Life will go on and we'll have a Blue Devil team to cheer for next season. NEXT PLAY.

Saratoga2
03-25-2011, 12:15 PM
I completely respect your opinion and in no way am I blaming the loss entirely on the Nolan Smith-Kyrie Irving factor.

However, after watching these past 3 games, how can you not say that they had some trouble meshing together? They both seemed confused in the first two games and Kyrie even stated that he was a little hesitant because he didn't want to mess up the chemistry. In our final game, Nolan was non-existent. He couldn't get into any groove and was off all night. Irving, on the other hand, took initiative and attempted to take over the game. He drove the lane, shot the ball and was our go-to guy on offense.

Now, you may believe Nolan's tough game was due to some other factor, I do not. Instead, I think that it had a lot to due with him not having the ball enough. Nolan was forced to become a perimeter player and that's not his game. Combine that with the fact that i don't think we ran one actual set play in the 2nd half and you get a Nolan Smith who doesn't know his role in the offense.

If you don't think Kyrie was the reason for Nolan's poor game, then what's your explanation? Arizona's defense on him wasn't anything special, he just couldn't get in rhythm.

I think Arizona just defended Nolan well and he responded by turning the ball over and shooting poorly. Had Kyrie not been in the game, it wouldn't even have been close for any part of the game.

Dukeford
03-25-2011, 12:20 PM
-Mason showed me a lot of toughness last night. I thought he fought hard. I hope he comes back.

I can't imagine that he won't come back. He looks good, he jumps high, and he runs like a horse. But he still has no offensive game.

But I think he can improve greatly and have a superb Junior year. I'm looking forward to watching him play next year.

weezie
03-25-2011, 12:54 PM
One small question and then I am going to stop the post mortem in my head...
did it seem like our guards just kept running into picks all game long? Maybe not smashing into defenders but they sure seemed to be bouncing off those strong az bodies with alarming frequency. Looked like it took a toll.

Kfanarmy
03-25-2011, 12:54 PM
I believe we had to play Kyrie because without him there wasn't a chance.
I'm not convinced of this...not because of the players, but because of the team and the strategy employed.

xinspiration
03-25-2011, 01:14 PM
I mean, on March 13, right after witnessing Duke's brilliant ACC championship game performance, if you had polled the fans, I bet 95% of us would STILL have risked the possible chemistry problems of a Kyrie return for the upside of his talent being added to the team. I can't blame Coach K for trying what the vast majority of fans and, imo, coaches in his shoes would've tried. And I certainly won't blame the players for not being fast enough at re-inventing themselves (yet again) so my spoiled fan-butt didn't have to "endure" the "shame" of a Sweet 16 loss.

Perspective. If this Duke loss was the worst event you've suffered in the past year or even if it were just in your top 10 somewhere, then you should count yourself as one lucky human being.

It was a shame that Kyrie wasn't healthy all year, but that's life for you. Stuff happens. Re-watch the Baylor and Butler games from last year and tell me those two contests weren't complete toss-ups, i.e. Duke was 50/50 to win each. Well, Duke ended up winning both and took home that trophy, and you know something? Maybe karmically, one trophy is all we "should" have won over the course of these past two seasons. Perhaps last season we won with a team that shouldn't have, and this season, the scales balanced via an injury that derailed what otherwise might've been a dominant champion.

No regrets. Pop in your DVDs of last season's championship run and enjoy them if you have to.

Nevertheless, THIS season was a great one, too. The team overcame the loss of the likely #1 overall draft pick to still win the ACC and post two memorable wins over Carolina in the process. One was a goose bump-inducing thriller of a second-half comeback. Another was a do-not-delete-from-DVR-ever beatdown of the Heels in the ACC championship game. I LOVED this team, if only for those two performances alone and the resiliency that they showed from December to March after their best player went down.

One loss in March, under unusual re-integration circumstances, should not taint all the good things that came before it. Again, in my book, it was a great season.

Thank you Nolan. Thank you Kyle. Thank you Casey. You will be missed.

Nolan & Kyle: I look forward to watching your jerseys raised to the rafters next year and to following your NBA careers. You guys are legends.

Thanks for this comment. I think you've hit the nail right on its head. Perspective and respect gratitude for the team.
GO DUKE!

Dukeford
03-25-2011, 01:24 PM
One small question and then I am going to stop the post mortem in my head...
did it seem like our guards just kept running into picks all game long? Maybe not smashing into defenders but they sure seemed to be bouncing off those strong az bodies with alarming frequency. Looked like it took a toll.

I noticed that too. All game long.

tommy
03-25-2011, 01:24 PM
Play some semblance of D in the second half? Grab 5 more boards? Give Kyle a breather when he was literally not defending at all due to fatigue and 4 fouls? That last one turned the game and maybe we didn't have alternatives but it seemed strange.

Feel bad for the guys. This is a disturbing trend though - 'Nova, Georgetown, St. Johns, Zona

Thankfully we have sandwiched a national championship around it so I'll chill out now that the game is over. Still until those games, I can't remember any Duke teams just laying down like that when faced with adversity. Can anyone else? Again, just a disturbing trend. Next play.

Sorry but I cannot agree with you that the team "laid down." That implies they stopped trying and just gave up. That is not what happened at all. The guys were working extremely hard -- maybe even too hard as they started pressing as the hole got deeper -- but we just didn't have the answers for what Arizona was doing and for how well they were shooting. But this team did not quit.

cspan37421
03-25-2011, 01:28 PM
I agree with most of those here who point out that a double digit loss like this can't be traced to one call, one non-call, or one player's performance. Mostly, AZ shot lights-out in a manner I haven't seen since UNLV 1990. [I have missed a few here and there, but that's the best one I can compare it to - where you are guarding them in textbook way and they still swish it, off balance etc]. I take it AZ does not normally shoot that well. Sure they got a few open looks, but so did we. They just shot lights out, whereas we were closer to average (maybe a bit subpar).

Kyrie played great but AZ really did keep Nolan's numbers scoring down and TO up. I'm sure he missed having Seth to dish to in the 2nd half.

I am glad that this forum is mature enough to at least consider the foul called on Mason's block without automatically assuming we are blaming the game on that one call - or some others that appeared questionable from what I could see (Kyle's 4th, a couple of blocks by Miles). Indeed, a 16 pt loss does not turn on those things alone, and I'm pretty sure there were a couple of times we got a benefit - such as an extra step driving in the paint. But I did feel that the Plumlees had a few questionable ones called on them that did not seem to be reciprocated despite the kind of physicality we saw on the other end (an elbow to Kyle's jaw comes to mind).

At bottom, we could not stop their scoring in the second half. Just about everyone got blown by at one point or another. In particular, when Kyle was out, it appeared that our bigs were getting abused on D. But even then, that was just part of it.

Was it a perfect storm? No ... not when it happens 2x in one year (SJU). Was it almost a perfect storm? Well, AZ shot lights out, hitting at a rate probably well exceeding their normal rate. We can normally weather one of our starters having a subpar game, but add losing another starter, that white-hot AZ shooting, and losing the rebounding battle badly in the 2nd half - well, there were enough ingredients for a severe storm, if not a perfect one.

I applaud our guys for really showing hustle, though. I thought in many cases our defense could only have stopped them if they could have prevented the shot from getting off. We did not lay down, we went down fighting and sometimes it's just not your day.

Hats off to Kyle for playing so well and so hard, leaving it all out there on the floor.

Hats off to Nolan for guiding our team so masterfully during KI's absence, leading us to the ACC Championship and a #1 seed in the NCAAT.

Hats off to Casey for always being there and putting into words the true bond of being part of Duke basketball. "You guys are like brothers."

Pause and reflect: how bad of a year can it be when you take 2 of 3 from UNC? :)

It's up to those who remain, and those who come in, to forge an identity for next year and make another determined run for the NCAA title.

Count me in for another year of fandom!

NM Duke Fan
03-25-2011, 01:33 PM
Sometimes the environment in which you watch the game leads you to notice certain things about the game. For context, I watched the game while visiting a friend in a rather dangerous barrio of El Paso, just miles from Juarez, the purported murder capital of the world. And in this neighborhood there are many looks of desperation, of feeling beat up by life, and feeling disrespected. Opportunities only come along so often, and some few do seize them with a DO OR DIE ATTITUDE.

Some of us on this board have played a lot of street ball, and that also influences how we see the game. I played in both the LA and Washington DC areas in my younger days. Sometimes a player would show up to the courts who was especially filled with that "fire and steel" look in his eyes, and who had a huge chip on his shoulder. And an indomitable will to prove something, feeling disrespected by the world and angry about it. I saw that look in eyes of Arizona's point guard, Mo in the second half. (There were plenty of pre-game articles pointing towards this). And once he got going, other players had that look as well. When you look at his background, and how he would constantly insult and cuss out Derrick Williams to prod him as they learned to play together, you get the drift. He is a junkyard dog player who had no turnovers, and if a player like that gets in the zone, overflowing with supreme confidence, sometimes you eventually have a whole team similarly in the zone that gets to most loose balls and rebounds, and seems to hit everything.

Arizona became that team, and Duke eventually had the deer in the headlights look overall, though Mason gave as good as he got, and Irving did a lot of good things. On defense, dribble penetration and lack of steals killed us. Seth is one of the best at steals, and his injury really hurt the overall energy level and effectiveness of our guards. Nolan never was in a good rhythm the whole game, many mental errors on both D and O, and Kyrie was still coming up to his normal lateral foot speed. Therefore, penetration led to some great high-percentage shots, and we were also often late in the D rotation on a 3 point shot, some of them were wide open looks. Though there was effort on the defensive end, I never saw the intense fire and indomitable defensive will come to the fore that I have seen in some Duke games over the decades--one which loudly screams "you are NOT going to be able to do what you want to do." And it would have taken such an indomitable defensive will to slow down Arizona's considerable momentum.

RepoMan
03-25-2011, 01:46 PM
I mean, on March 13, right after witnessing Duke's brilliant ACC championship game performance, if you had polled the fans, I bet 95% of us would STILL have risked the possible chemistry problems of a Kyrie return for the upside of his talent being added to the team. I can't blame Coach K for trying what the vast majority of fans and, imo, coaches in his shoes would've tried.

Moreover, how do you not let Kyrie back once he got healthy and wanted to help the team? Here's a kid who did everything you asked; worked his butt off to come back; was wanting to play despite presumably hearing whispers that she should not play because of injury risk; and was welcomed back and well-respected by his teammates. Refusing to play him under those circumstances would have been a terrible decision in my mind.

MCFinARL
03-25-2011, 02:07 PM
I think Arizona just defended Nolan well and he responded by turning the ball over and shooting poorly. Had Kyrie not been in the game, it wouldn't even have been close for any part of the game.

Good point--we have been going on and on about how well Arizona played, and about how Nolan's game seemed to be off, but you are the first person on this thread I have seen draw any possible connection between the two. Obviously, in our cinema-inspired visions, the star of the good guys always, somehow, manages to rise above the opposition. But in real life, when the other team plays lights out all over the court, sometimes even the the hero can't make magic happen, and we might do well to cut both Nolan and Kyrie a little slack here. Arizona was good enough to shut down one, but not both of them, and they shut down Nolan. Might have gone the other way and they probably still would have won.

Scorp4me
03-25-2011, 02:15 PM
So if we don't bring Kyrie back who do we play in the second half when Curry gets hurts? It's going to be the same outcome either way. Arizona played out of their minds.

And I think the second half was more due to that than Duke playing bad. I know we want to take the blame for the loss, but I don't think we can in this one.

And is there seriously consideration of Mason leaving early? He's great, I'm happy to have him. But leaving early? More so when his brother is coming next year? No, I don't think so.

Faison1
03-25-2011, 02:16 PM
Going into the game, I was worrying "2005 LSU".

Coming out of the game, it seems even more comparable.

6'9 Tyrus Thomas torches us, and in the process makes a national name for himself.

hq2
03-25-2011, 02:27 PM
Mostly, AZ shot lights-out in a manner I haven't seen since UNLV 1990

This may have been the worst NCAA loss since then; hard to think of a worse one.
Can't really point to one thing in the second half; they basically did everything right,
we did everything wrong, on both ends of the floor. What more can you say?

uh_no
03-25-2011, 02:29 PM
This may have been the worst NCAA loss since then; hard to think of a worse one.
Can't really point to one thing in the second half; they basically did everything right,
we did everything wrong, on both ends of the floor. What more can you say?

I can say that this obviously means we'll come back next year and knock them off on our way to the title!

Faison1
03-25-2011, 02:38 PM
Going into the game, I was worrying "2005 LSU".

Coming out of the game, it seems even more comparable.

6'9 Tyrus Thomas torches us, and in the process makes a national name for himself.

Boy, my memory is bad. It was actually 2006, and Tyrus Thomas had 9 points in that game.

I guess it was the bar I was in that made me want to fire-bomb the place, and purge it from my thoughts forever. I was the only Duke fan there. Everyone else took great joy in watching JJ cry when he came out of the game.

cspan37421
03-25-2011, 02:39 PM
This may have been the worst NCAA loss since then; hard to think of a worse one.
Can't really point to one thing in the second half; they basically did everything right,
we did everything wrong, on both ends of the floor. What more can you say?

If you're talking about one of our worst NCAA losses, Villanova beat us worse (23 pts) in 2009. It was not because VU shot the lights out; we shot horribly in that one.

Obviously there has been at least 1 worse NCAA title loss since 1990: our 1991 team beat Michigan by 20. That's the second-largest margin of victory, IIRC.

I respectfully disagree that we did everything wrong on both ends of the floor. Rather, I would say that even when we did everything right, things worked out for them. For instance, there was that fadeaway jumper that Kyle defended really well, but the guy just hit it - I can't imagine the shooter could even see the basket when he released the ball. There was the 3 pointer at the end of the first half - Ryan had his hands up and didn't foul - but Williams hit it regardless. The only fault I saw with that one was that Williams probably could see the rim through Ryan's hands, as they were apart enough to do so. I don't think it would have been wise for Ryan to jump up with one hand right up the middle, Williams could have leaned in and drawn a foul. That it went in - guarded at such a distance - was really quite lucky. Anyway, I thought there was a lot we did right, it just didn't work out. Sure, we had some lapses in that big run - but the run was not entirely lapses.

JTH
03-25-2011, 02:55 PM
Congratulations on a very good season. It hurts to go out like that, but it doesn't detract from the fact that overall Duke had a season most teams would kill for. Like most UNC fans, I am happy to see Duke the team lose, but I am fairly certain that there are human beings in those uniforms and it was hard to see Smith suffering like that. He is a warrior and I have a lot of respect for him- never want to see someone go out with a bad game like that. My thoughts...

1. Irving is a transcendent talent, but I do not think he improved Duke the team. In both of the last two games, you looked much less cohesive. Maybe this would have happened anyway, as it did against St. Johns, but I thought some of Smith's struggles on both ends of the floor game from adjusting to a new role late in the season. It was a dilemma for K. YOu can't leave your most talented player on the bench, and to be effective KI needs the ball, but giving Irving the ball throws off the momentum Smith spent all year building.

2. Does Duke's pressure defense tire the players out when they play athletic teams? I didn't think you played with a lack of effort or heart in the second half, I just thought you looked exhausted. The team was really sucking wind going into the timeouts.

3. Other than KSU, did you guys have a good road win this year? I can't remember, but I'm pretty sure you lost to the three best ACC teams you played on the road. Odd to see a senior-lead team struggle on the road, but given that tendency it did make a West coast bracket with two West coast teams an uphill climb.

4. It's hard to overstate the value of a pro-level player. Barnes is known for his big shots, but he's also kept us in games early when we've struggled offensively. Obviously, Williams did that last night for Arizon. Minus his heroics, Arizona is down 15-20 at the half and there is no comeback.

You are certainly entitled to your opinions but I have a little difference with your points:

1. There is nothing to prove that KI was upsetting the chemistry last night, or since he has been back. We had similar problems in other games earlier in the year. KI wasn't upsetting the chemistry from the bench in those games and I don't think it can be concluded that he upset anything. Nolan had his ups and downs throughout the year. All players do. I don't believe for a second that having KI back was any kind of negative. It's unfortunate that he was not as effective as he would have been otherwise without the long layoff but, he was still pretty darn good. I have to believe that our best chance at winning the prize was with KI on the floor.

2. See Baylor, 2010. No doubt that it's tiring but, it's also been very effective for Duke and coach K. You can't play defense back on your heels against a tough, agressive team. Do that and you lose by 32, but at least you're not tired.;)

3. I imagine that Marquette might count. I would not say that having two seniors exactly qualifies for the term "senior laden."

4. Agreed.

DukieinSoCal
03-25-2011, 03:00 PM
I think having KI come back and run the point may have affected Nolan a bit but that doesn't explain everything. Nolan just had one of those nights.

The main reason we lost was because we couldn't stop Arizona. D.Williams was on fire and opened things up for the rest of their team. When a team gets going like that, there's almost nothing you can do. Our offensive numbers were actually not that bad last night. I don't think we should feel too bad about our team's performance. It was more about Arizona. Kudos to them.

TNTDevil
03-25-2011, 03:09 PM
~snip~...

My two cents on the momentum changing play was actually Williams' three just before half-time. Duke played a very,very good half of basketball on the offensive end, were up by a comfortable margin, had momentum going into the break, and then Willams hits that ridiculous shot. I kind of sensed a "what do we have to do to get rid of these guys" attitude seep into the mix--at least it seeped into my living room, which may or may not have had an impact on the game. Jury is still out :)

Fair play to Arizona. Awesome performance.

Thanks and congrats to the whole team on all of the milestones and accomplishments achieved and mostly for representing the university and Duke community in such a fantastic way.I agree with the above wholeheartedly. However, I would add a couple of caveats.

First, I think it was a mistake to start the game with Miles on Williams, it's simply not in Miles repertoire to guard a 60% 3-pt shooter who can also drive to the basket to finish. However, I can see that it was probably a "pick your poison" decsion- Kyle played better D on Williams in the second half but, by then, the cow had escaped the barn. Had Kyle started the game on Williams, the result may have been different but, there was no guarantee.

Williams final three of the half (which was sick) was a cut, but the 25 for the half was the dagger. Those first half points kept them in the game and boosted the teams confidence for the second half.

Secondly, to the point about Arizona just flat-out winning the game (as opposed to Duke losing), everybody for Arizona stepped up. Their point guard who, if memory serves, went through the season with more TOs than Assists. Well last night- zero TOs.

That second half AZ team would have beaten anyone last night. The real question remains- had we played a bit differently from the start of the game would the outcome have been different?

Duke4life92
03-25-2011, 03:29 PM
I thought Coach K lost this one.

1) We got killed on the boards, but we played SMALL the entire game

2) He refused to call timeouts and it got out of hand


Guess we should get a new coach as this hall of famer has just lost his touch huh :confused:-unfreaken believable!Just some really uninformed comments.But i guess your entitled to your opinion.We played a good first half and just ran into a buzz saw in the 2nd half(heck it happens-we've done it to better teams than arizona before)Once on a role the officials seemed to swallow there whistle's and just let it happen.When they allowed kyrie to just get steam roled on the break which was so obviously a charge with no call it was just blatantly bad.Anyhow i am very proud of this years Duke team and lets give'em hell next year!!!!

NSDukeFan
03-25-2011, 03:32 PM
This is a good point. We need a half court game with the ball in Nolan's hands, and Arizona reacting to us.

We needed to exploit our size in the halfcourt and make them make tough plays. They benefited from the up and down, frenetic pace. We did not. This was the junk ball team we couldnt beat, but we could have and should have kept it a half court war, rather than junk ball. Sucks.

They hit their shots, we didnt. They got loose balls, we didnt. They out-worked us. Hats off.
I saw a lot of posters mention that Duke should have slowed the game down, but my impression was that Arizona sped the game up on turnovers or rebounds, not off Duke fast breaks or not working the offense. My impression (I am definitely not going to look back at the game) was that Arizona had some great run-outs that had nothing to do with how quickly offense was run. I agree they got the loose balls and rebounds. Some of that was them getting lucky on comedy of errors plays where it would hit the hands of two of our guys and bounce into their hands and part of it was Arizona players creating good luck by their great effort.

Play some semblance of D in the second half? Grab 5 more boards? Give Kyle a breather when he was literally not defending at all due to fatigue and 4 fouls? That last one turned the game and maybe we didn't have alternatives but it seemed strange.

Feel bad for the guys. This is a disturbing trend though - 'Nova, Georgetown, St. Johns, Zona

Thankfully we have sandwiched a national championship around it so I'll chill out now that the game is over. Still until those games, I can't remember any Duke teams just laying down like that when faced with adversity. Can anyone else? Again, just a disturbing trend. Next play.
I don't know if it is a trend when three different Duke teams with different players and different styles get beat by three different types of teams at different times of different seasons. I was disappointed after each of those losses, and most on this board were, so I guess that is a trend.

At no point this year were we as good as Arizona was last night. They were in a ridiculous zone and would have beaten anyone. Sure we could have played better, but it's awfully tough to beat a team who is literally making everything they take.
I agree Arizona was fantastic last night, but I would have liked to see the Duke team of the ACC final play against Arizona. Maybe Duke wouldn't have won, but it might have been more interesting and the first half deficit may have been too much for Arizona to overcome.

We got out-rebounded 40-27. They got offensive rebounds on 16 of their 29 misses (55%). Dang.

They hit 6-8 3-pointers in the 1st half (Williams was 5-6) which in retrospect was enough to keep the team afloat while Duke was playing really good ball.

They shot 21-36 (58%) for the 2nd half which is a lot of field goals to hit in a half, good for 55 points.

Nolan and Seth combined for 10 points on 4-16 shooting. Nolan had 6 TOs. This duo if you recall was on fire in the ACCT. I'm sure the Kyrie Re-Integration Project will be discussed ad nauseum through the weekend here. Irving had 28 on 9-15 shooting.

We actually hit more FTs than they did (18 to 16) and fouls were about even (20-21) but Kyle had 4 for a lot of the 2nd half which hurt us.

Small vs Large rotations - Our front line of Mason, Miles, Ryan combined for 10 points, 12 ball-boards, 5 blocks but only 59 minutes. So we played Kyle at the 4 for right about 19 minutes (Josh played 2 minutes to close it out).

My conclusion (and then I'm taking the rest of the morning off to go stare blankly out the window) is that Duke allowed Arizona to dictate the pace of the game. We got away from our halfcourt precision offense, and we got away from our pressure D that slows the game down. The game turned into a free for all and they are faster and quicker than us at a lot of positions. We got away from our game because they brought more energy, intensity and focus than we did. That was a lot of DBR folks' concern from very early on and unfortunately it bit us badly at the worst possible time against a team we're better than 8/10 nights.

Honestly, it makes me appreciate what last year's team was able to do even more: know your roles and hold your limitations at arms length, maximize your strengths and make everyone play your game. I think that gives us a lot of perspective about last night.

I will miss seeing Nolan's smile and Kyle's guts out there for Duke.

Super "Next Play" Dave
Thanks for gathering the stats. The rebounding to me was one of the biggest issues. Arizona killed the team on the boards in the second half, so that on the few times Arizona did miss a shot, they got the board and when Duke wasn't shooting as well (though I would contend that offense wasn't the big issue in this game) there was only one opportunity. As coach K said, they got on a roll, got some momentum and Duke just couldn't get them stopped.

I felt like we lost this game much like we lost the lead in the Michigan game: we went small and tried to adjust to them, when what we were doing was already working.

Another poster said that we missed Lance Thomas, and I think that that's pretty accurate. We needed an athletic 4 to play adequate defense on Williams, and we didn't have one. It makes me ponder whether Hairston could have done the job better than Kyle.

It was clear we were getting out-rebounded the entire second half. The lack of rebounding hurt us more than not being able to guard Williams.

Of course, the way Arizona played in the second half, I think they could've beaten any team in the country yesterday. They got all the bounces, made the hustle plays, made their shots, and crashed the boards. Give them credit.

I'll probably continue to think up reasons that Duke didn't win last night, but only because I'm trying to rationalize my emotional response to losing not just a game, but losing a great senior class, in a way that doesn't do them justice. We got to enjoy them for four years, and we hoped we'd have them for just a few more games. But, it wasn't to be.

Good luck, seniors, as well as Kyrie and Mason if you choose to go pro-- we wish you all long, successful careers doing what you enjoy. For everyone on the team... Next play.
I am very sure that Josh could not have done a better job defensively than Kyle. I have not been at practise, but there has been nothing that I have seen in games that has ever given me any indication that a freshman Josh defends in any way better than senior leader Kyle.
I agree with the rationalization of last night's result as it is hard to think that Kyle and Nolan are done. This is not the way that I, most of this board and of course Kyle and Nolan, expected their incredibly successful careers to end. Unfortunately, for 67 of the top 68 teams, the season ends in a loss.

Several of you have already said the same thing, I noticed reddevil and vinctaylor, but I'd like to say it as well. And I'm saying my thoughts so it may be out of order.

I don't feel bad this morning. I didn't feel bad last night. K wasn't outcoached. Duke wasn't out hustled. Arizona played out of their mind. Did you see the shots? They couldn't miss. Drive to the land step back falling away Singler in your face, nothing but net. Long distance 3 time running down at the end of the half, Kelly in your face and body and arms and everthing, nothing but net. They were on fire. You won't see a shooting display like that for...well, the Harlem Globetrotters. You can't beat that. Another team in the field couldn't beat it. West Virginia last year couldn't beat it and Kentucky before them. Duke last year couldn't have beat it. Carolina in 09 couldn't have beat it. UNLV in 90 couldn't have beat it and Duke in 91 couldn't have beat it. It was a shooting display for the ages and the stats don't even tell half the story.

And sometimes rebounding is about position, about heart and determination. Sometimes it's just about the ball bouncing the wrong way. I mean did you see the ball bounce. Over half of what they missed they simply tipped in. I mean, I don't know what they're drinking but it might as well be liquid luck and I want some. Name a factor you would consider "luck" that went Duke's way. Crazy shots? Injuries? Tough calls? They had it all.

And yes it was a bad loss but that was because Duke didn't give up. You can't slow the game down when you play good D and they still score. You have to try to make something happen. The large score was in part due to Duke not quitting. We could have lost by less, but lost we would have.

And I don't care if Kyrie is back or not. As someone said this has nothing to do with Kyrie or no Kyrie. We got beat. And that's not taking anything away from them. I don't see them doing it again and winning it all, but they did it last night. Live by the 3, die by the 3. Last night we died by the 3...it just wasn't "our 3" in the way that term is usually applied to Duke.

I just don't feel bad. I mean really, I don't. I found myself wanting the Wildcats to keep making those shots just to prove my point. And guess what, they did! So I have no qualms with Nolan or Kyle, or Kyrie, or Coach K, or Duke or anything. It was a heck of a game and I hate to come out on the losing end of it, but any team not named Arizona was going to come out on the losing end of that game. Mistakes were made ,sure. Things I would have done different, maybe. But it wouldn't have changed the outcome.

I'm excited for Duke football season (my apologies to baseball just not a fan) and of course things are looking great for next year. And for the first year in a while I don't feel like our season hinges on someone returning or not yet year. If they do it just makes it that much sweeter.

I agree with most of your points and most of your post, except that I must say that I do feel bad today. I expected that a team with two fantastic senior leaders, great depth, great character, great talent, a superlatively talented point guard being reintegrated and a great coaching staff would not get beat like that. Basketball being what it is though, in a one-and-done situation, games like that can happen. Congratulations to Arizona for one heckuva game. I am sad that I will not see Kyle and Nolan in a Duke uniform anymore and that the tournament is nowhere near as exciting for me from now on this year.

Regenman
03-25-2011, 03:33 PM
OK, I'll bite the bullet and state what my friends and I have been chatting about privately. If you're tired, getting blown by on dribble penetration and giving up weak side offensive rebounds in spades, what's the obvious remedy?

We probably would have still lost but sticking with a defense that's not working when your glue guy is totally gassed with 4 fouls is not good coaching. Didn't Coach K throw in some zone in a few games last year to at least break tempo? Wasn't that part of the learning process when he coached US Basketball? Maybe D. Williams shoots over smaller guys on the perimeter but it would cut down on the offensive rebounds he got (6!!).

Arizona played a great game, hats off to them. Our guys played hard and really cared, but I'll disagree that they were placed in the best position to claw back when Arizona's run occurred.

SuperDave said 16 offensive rebounds for Arizona, ESPN had 13. That's a breakdown of some sort for a team that had the height advantage and (according to the pundits) was suppose to dominate on the boards.

Spret42
03-25-2011, 03:43 PM
2. See Baylor, 2010. No doubt that it's tiring but, it's also been very effective for Duke and coach K. You can't play defense back on your heels against a tough, agressive team. Do that and you lose by 32, but at least you're not tired.;)



I may be wrong and I am not ripping, I just like talking about this kind of stuff.

But.

Baylor 2010 wasn't as skilled as Arizona 2011. Duke's aggressive defense can be effective and is often the key to success. However, last night it was a problem. There is a space between hyper aggressive, challenge every dribble/pass and "back on your heels."

Perimeter defensive can have three goals . 1. Get a turnover/steal/bad pass or mistake by forced error. 2. Play positional defense based on controlled aggression, every shot contested and rushed late in the shot clock. 3. Passive allowing absolutely nothing inside 15 feet and giving away open jump shots whenever chosen.

Last night I think Duke was to much towards the first option and against a skilled team with better athletes it seemed to be a problem. That hyper aggressive, get a steal, force a turnover defense seemed to leave guys out of position more than few times.

Scorp4me
03-25-2011, 03:51 PM
... it's simply not in Miles repertoire to guard a 60% 3-pt shooter who can also drive to the basket to finish....

You forgot he's also 6'10". I mean who's repertoire is it in to guard someone like that. For that matter who shoots 60% from 3??? And that's at the end of the year, not a beginning of year fluke. I know he hasn't taken that many 3's but based on last night he should have!

NSDukeFan
03-25-2011, 03:54 PM
If you're talking about one of our worst NCAA losses, Villanova beat us worse (23 pts) in 2009. It was not because VU shot the lights out; we shot horribly in that one.

Obviously there has been at least 1 worse NCAA title loss since 1990: our 1991 team beat Michigan by 20. That's the second-largest margin of victory, IIRC.

I respectfully disagree that we did everything wrong on both ends of the floor. Rather, I would say that even when we did everything right, things worked out for them. For instance, there was that fadeaway jumper that Kyle defended really well, but the guy just hit it - I can't imagine the shooter could even see the basket when he released the ball. There was the 3 pointer at the end of the first half - Ryan had his hands up and didn't foul - but Williams hit it regardless. The only fault I saw with that one was that Williams probably could see the rim through Ryan's hands, as they were apart enough to do so. I don't think it would have been wise for Ryan to jump up with one hand right up the middle, Williams could have leaned in and drawn a foul. That it went in - guarded at such a distance - was really quite lucky. Anyway, I thought there was a lot we did right, it just didn't work out. Sure, we had some lapses in that big run - but the run was not entirely lapses.
I feel differently about the loss last night than I did about the Villanova loss. In both games, I thought Duke would win at half-time. In both games, Duke had trouble stopping the opposition who got hot from the outside and with quick, penetrating guards. Both teams had a pro-quality big guy, though Arizona had one who could also shoot lights out from 3. I didn't feel Duke had the offensive struggles last night that the (completely different) team had against Villanova 2 years ago. I also feel this Duke team was quite a bit better, more talented and had better senior leadership (though I will always think very highly of Paulus) than the Duke team two years ago. And I think last night's Arizona team played a better second half and was even hotter than Villanova two years ago. Just my opinion that I need to express as a catharsis.

OK, I'll bite the bullet and state what my friends and I have been chatting about privately. If you're tired, getting blown by on dribble penetration and giving up weak side offensive rebounds in spades, what's the obvious remedy?

We probably would have still lost but sticking with a defense that's not working when your glue guy is totally gassed with 4 fouls is not good coaching. Didn't Coach K throw in some zone in a few games last year to at least break tempo? Wasn't that part of the learning process when he coached US Basketball? Maybe D. Williams shoots over smaller guys on the perimeter but it would cut down on the offensive rebounds he got (6!!).

Arizona played a great game, hats off to them. Our guys played hard and really cared, but I'll disagree that they were placed in the best position to claw back when Arizona's run occurred.

SuperDave said 16 offensive rebounds for Arizona, ESPN had 13. That's a breakdown of some sort for a team that had the height advantage and (according to the pundits) was suppose to dominate on the boards.
As we play the what if game, maybe a zone defense would have been a decent idea for a stretch, but Arizona was already hitting everything from outside, which a zone wouldn't help, and defensive rebounding (which was killing us already) is much more difficult when playing zone. I don't know that zone would have solved the team's biggest problems. The other thing people have brought up was that our big guys had some trouble guarding some of their quicker players. My impression (and again I am not going to check this as I doubt I will ever watch that game again) is that our guards were getting beat a lot more than Miles, Mason (who I agree with other posters, competed very well) and Ryan. I also agree that part of that was due to solid screening by Arizona on the perimeter and part may be due to Kyrie not being quite up to his top form defensively yet from a quickness perspective and from a teamwork perspective, but that is just speculation on my part.

Billy Dat
03-25-2011, 03:56 PM
Sometimes the environment in which you watch the game leads you to notice certain things about the game. For context, I watched the game while visiting a friend in a rather dangerous barrio of El Paso, just miles from Juarez, the purported murder capital of the world. And in this neighborhood there are many looks of desperation, of feeling beat up by life, and feeling disrespected. Opportunities only come along so often, and some few do seize them with a DO OR DIE ATTITUDE.

Some of us on this board have played a lot of street ball, and that also influences how we see the game. I played in both the LA and Washington DC areas in my younger days. Sometimes a player would show up to the courts who was especially filled with that "fire and steel" look in his eyes, and who had a huge chip on his shoulder. And an indomitable will to prove something, feeling disrespected by the world and angry about it. I saw that look in eyes of Arizona's point guard, Mo in the second half. (There were plenty of pre-game articles pointing towards this). And once he got going, other players had that look as well. When you look at his background, and how he would constantly insult and cuss out Derrick Williams to prod him as they learned to play together, you get the drift. He is a junkyard dog player who had no turnovers, and if a player like that gets in the zone, overflowing with supreme confidence, sometimes you eventually have a whole team similarly in the zone that gets to most loose balls and rebounds, and seems to hit everything.

This is a very interesting perspective, and I think this is part of the formula as to why we, so often, get another team's best effort. Without sounding like a schmuck, Duke does represent, to a lot of people, the ultimate scalp to have on their belt. It's why beating Duke generates a court storming nearly every time. Beating Duke, especially as a lower seed in the NCAAs, means something. If players feel the way Jalen Rose felt when he was 18, that Duke would never recruit him, etc., then beating Duke represents a huge validation and a huge "eff you" to "the haters". That's got to contribute to "the look" that NM Duke fan aptly describes.

rsvman
03-25-2011, 04:02 PM
Am I the only one who thinks the game might have gone differently if not for two plays?
1) The ridiculous 3 by Williams right before halftime. We should've gone in up by 9, despite outrageously good play by Williams. That three was a definite momentum-producer.

2) I remember a time when we were clawing our way back into the game, down 9 or 10. We finally get a stop (or a steal?) and Nolan leads the 2-on-1 break. He goes right to the hoop for the finger-roll that he's been making all season long. Instead, it bounces off the front rim so hard that it leads to a fast-break lay-up on the other end of the court. Lead should've been 7 or 8; instead it was 11 or 12, and the momentum completely shifted.


Just a brutal game. I think a lot of it had to do with AZ getting into "the zone," or whatever you want to call it; maybe if a couple of things had gone our way they would've lost some of that confidence and played like humans. If they had done that, we would've had a fighting chance.

MChambers
03-25-2011, 04:02 PM
I noticed that too. All game long.

and some of them were moving picks. During Arizona's run in the second half, I watched a replay of Irving getting picked by Williams, who wasn't even pretending to stop moving. I yelled at the TV, but I guess the refs didn't hear me.

tommy
03-25-2011, 04:16 PM
This is the MO for all of our losses this season, we're not a great halfcourt offense and when we play teams that just out-class us athletically it's an endless cycle we can't catch up to because we're not a good transition defense. It's a good thing and a bad thing to have a team that's so predictable that you know who they're going to beat and who they're going to have a hell of a time trying not to lose to.

So you predicted this loss last night? Uh-huh. Arizona was a good team this year with one special player, but the team was hardly special. They just played out of their minds last night and we couldn't match it.

We were not outclassed athletically. Nolan Smith, Kyrie Irving, Andre Dawkins, Seth Curry, Miles Plumlee, and Mason Plumlee are all excellent athletes as the term is usually used in a basketball context. Arizona played better basketball than we did last night, and that's all.



Another poster said that we missed Lance Thomas, and I think that that's pretty accurate. We needed an athletic 4 to play adequate defense on Williams, and we didn't have one. It makes me ponder whether Hairston could have done the job better than Kyle.

You're kidding, right? You really think a freshman, having played limited minutes all year, would do better being thrust all of a sudden into a pressure packed Sweet 16 game, in hostile territory, would do better guarding the opposing team's white-hot All-American, do-everything forward, a player almost certain to go in the top 3 of next year's draft, than would our own All-American senior forward who has been our toughest and most versatile defender all year, and in fact for his entire career? Really?


Thinking forward, we are losing our two top scorers and defenders and are probably losing Kyrie, maybe the best point guard in the country. In addition, there is a possibility of losing Mason. This team will need to be reinvented. We will have excellent new but young talent coming but we also will need to replace about 60 points of our offense and train new players to handle the Duke man to man defense. We will start the year as more of an underdog than usual, so it should be interesting.

If Kyrie returns, we will be top 5 in the nation pre-season. Even without him, I wouldn't be surprised if we are still top 10. This team will be stocked.

jv001
03-25-2011, 04:20 PM
Bringing Kyrie back changed things, obviously. We can argue all day about whether it was for the better or for the worse. Because of how things turned out, and the way we played against UNC in the ACC tourney title game, there will be a large contingent that will feel that we should not have brought Kyrie back at all. We know that the Hampton game was meaningless because we beat them so badly. In the Michigan game, everyone will point to Nolan's brilliance when he took over early in the second half, and the confusion at the end of the game. Last night, everyone will also point to Kyrie's brilliant first half and Nolan's bad game. But what can be reasonably concluded from those realities? That Kyrie screwed up Nolan and our offensive identity? That against Arizona, sans Kyrie, everyone else makes up for his 28 points and we hold them to 20 fewer points because we have a more cohesive defense? I don't know about all that.

Coach K was caught in a no win situation unless we won the NCAAT. People are going to say he should not have hurt the team chemistry. But how do those same people feel if Kyrie was thinking of returning next year and Coach sits him for the rest of the season. I trust Coach Ks decision on things like this. What hurt last night was we played bad defense and AZ played very very well. That's a combination meant for a beat down. GoDuke!

DukeCrow
03-25-2011, 04:22 PM
Did anyone catch the post-game presser where Williams said that some words from opposing players motivated him and made him want to elevate his game and play harder? He didn't want to say who it was that talked trash to him, and he even said he wasn't calling out any Duke player in particular. But he definitely was motivated by some trash talk by someone during the game.

Anyone else catch that?

yancem
03-25-2011, 04:24 PM
I apologize if this has been covered already but I just don't have the heart to read through the entire thread right now.

I'm a little tired of hearing about "athletic teams" being our down fall like this is unique to Duke. Every team struggles against top athletes, even other top athletes. And unlike last season, this years squad was very athletic. Smith, Irving, MP1, MP2, and Dawkins are as athletic as any squad in the country. Our athleticism bothered many teams this year. With the exception of Williams, our guys were every bit as athletic as Arizona.

The difference in the game was shooting and execution, not speed and leaping ability. Arizona shot 54% for the game and a ridiculous 60% from behind the arc. Many of their shots were well defended and tough shots. I think that their shooting sort of demoralized Duke's defense and when the lead evaporated even though we where playing solid defense, we pressed. We took quick ill advised shots and had a couple of turnovers. Both lead to run outs by Arizona and quick baskets. Then like an avalanche things fell apart. I swear it looked like the Arizona players had basketball magnets in their hands. The ball consistently bounce to them on the rare times they missed a shot.

The loss sucks and hurts real bad but sometimes a team gets really hot (kind of like last year against WV). That doesn't mean that Arizona is better than Duke or that they are more athletic. It just means that last night, they played better (much better in the second half).

Ok rant over.

DukeCrow
03-25-2011, 04:27 PM
As Zona's lead got bigger we just tried to play faster and faster. We were taking shots before our bigs could even get into rebounding position. That isn't how we played the last couple months. Yes, Zona played out of their minds, but in the 2nd half we didn't play the game that got us there. We tried to run and get points back in a hurry. I kept yelling at the TV for the team to slow down. Too bad they were in Anaheim. I think if they were playing in Newark they might have heard me ;)

pfrduke
03-25-2011, 04:29 PM
2) I remember a time when we were clawing our way back into the game, down 9 or 10. We finally get a stop (or a steal?) and Nolan leads the 2-on-1 break. He goes right to the hoop for the finger-roll that he's been making all season long. Instead, it bounces off the front rim so hard that it leads to a fast-break lay-up on the other end of the court. Lead should've been 7 or 8; instead it was 11 or 12, and the momentum completely shifted.

That sequence was when I gave up on the comeback. We had cut the lead from 14 to 11, the run-out would have cut it to 9 and given us a little momentum and maybe, just maybe, caused the Wildcats to start feeling nervous.

But the finger roll was shortarmed, and the rest is history.

Jderf
03-25-2011, 04:44 PM
Coach K has 900 wins, but only 4 championships.

Only 4 championships? ONLY!? Are you serious? You mean, the meager number of championships that happens to be tied for second place ALL TIME? Last I checked, that is one more than the amount won by the other guy with 900 wins. I don't even understand how the word "only" could have possibly squeaked into that sentence. If you'll allow me to correct the grammar, proper English would have the sentence read like this: "Coach K has 900 wins, and 4 championships." Also, for syntactical reasons, that sentence must always be followed by the words, "Damn, that's impressive."

ChicagoHeel
03-25-2011, 04:56 PM
Only 4 championships? ONLY!? Are you serious? You mean, the meager number of championships that happens to be tied for second place ALL TIME? Last I checked, that is one more than the amount won by the other guy with 900 wins. I don't even understand how the word "only" could have possibly squeaked into that sentence. If you'll allow me to correct the grammar, proper English would have the sentence read like this: "Coach K has 900 wins, and 4 championships." Also, for syntactical reasons, that sentence must always be followed by the words, "Damn, that's impressive."

I don't think ncexnyc's point was to belittle the number of championships that K has, but rather to make the point that even for a coach that wins a lot of games championships are, statistically speaking, a rare occurrence. I think s/he was emphasizing the need to keep things in perspective.

jipops
03-25-2011, 04:59 PM
I'm one of those subscribing to the school of thought that Kyrie's comeback did have an adverse effect both offensively and defensively. This is a fault of no one. But we were at a distinct disadvantage of not getting Kyrie back until the part of the season where one loss ends the season. There was no adjustment period. Yet if a kid of his talent is able to play, you play him. Almost all season the offense revolved around Nolan dominating the ball. By the ACC tournament the team was clicking great in that system. In the AZ game, if you go back and look, Kyrie takes on the role of dominating the ball and Nolan is filling a role he hadn't been in since early December. I am convinced this had something to do with Nolan's performance. I am convinced this had something to do with the team's performance. It was a risk the staff had to take and unfortunately it didn't work out.

Jderf
03-25-2011, 04:59 PM
I don't think ncexnyc's point was to belittle the number of championships that K has, but rather to make the point that even for a coach that wins a lot of games championships are, statistically speaking, a rare occurrence. I think s/he was emphasizing the need to keep things in perspective.

I know, I know. I really wasn't focusing on the general point of the post at all. So I guess I apologize for that. Like I said, I was just pointing out the grammatical error :cool:, with what may or may not have been an overreaction.

Jeff Frosh
03-25-2011, 05:18 PM
I apologize if I missed someone else saying this, but the other game that this reminded me of (in addition to the WV game last year that has been mentioned a few times) is the 1985 championship game when Villanova beat Georgetown by shooting about 80% from the field for the game and about 90% in the second half. Sometimes there is just nothing that you can do.

sporthenry
03-25-2011, 05:38 PM
I don't know how you can say that KI's return didn't have an adverse impact on Nolan. Before KI went out, Nolan was taking less shots but playing efficient. Then he went on his tear with the ball being in his hand and then had to readapt to playing off ball. There were times where both guys would come back to get the ball and I'm sure Nolan deferred a lot b/c he recognized he had to get him involved especially early in the game. But then, by the time Nolan needed to get in the game, he was completely out of synch. Missing layups, free throws, forcing passes, etc. When is the last time you saw 2 All ACC players who played together 4 years get crossed up in their signs like they did on that missed pass?
I don't think Duke wins it all without KI it was just unfortunate they never seemed to click.

Buckeye Devil
03-25-2011, 05:54 PM
I can't help but feel that justice was not served for Nolan Smith. I know that Kyrie is a great player and it would be nice for him to return next year. But I think that the team kind of lost its equilibrium when Nolan was not at the point and Nolan was not the same player either. With the exception of his 10 straight points against UM, he was a non-factor for the most part during the tournament. This from a player who was pretty consistent in points and assists for most of the year and helped produce a 22-4 record and an ACC championship while at the point guard position. I don't think one could definitively say that the result of the AZ game would have been different. Nolan clearly was off last night and the transition back to the 2 was a lot more difficult than anyone thought it would be. But he deserved a better ending and I feel horrible for him.

JTH
03-25-2011, 05:56 PM
I may be wrong and I am not ripping, I just like talking about this kind of stuff.

But.

Baylor 2010 wasn't as skilled as Arizona 2011. Duke's aggressive defense can be effective and is often the key to success. However, last night it was a problem. There is a space between hyper aggressive, challenge every dribble/pass and "back on your heels."

Perimeter defensive can have three goals . 1. Get a turnover/steal/bad pass or mistake by forced error. 2. Play positional defense based on controlled aggression, every shot contested and rushed late in the shot clock. 3. Passive allowing absolutely nothing inside 15 feet and giving away open jump shots whenever chosen.

Last night I think Duke was to much towards the first option and against a skilled team with better athletes it seemed to be a problem. That hyper aggressive, get a steal, force a turnover defense seemed to leave guys out of position more than few times.

I appreciate the tone of your response. I really don't differ that much with your thoughts on how perimeter defenses can or should operate. My comments were a reply to an ascertion that we exhaust ourselves playing aggressive defense against athletic teams. Baylor was far more athletic than Arizona. Arizona was more than just athletic. They were possessed, and they deserved to win (ouch that hurts.) I don't think we or any team, or any type of defense, could have stopped them last night.

And...........I wanted to get in what I intended to be, a little good natured ribbing;)

ojaidave
03-25-2011, 06:02 PM
I've never seen an entire game turn from so good to so bad on what looked like a totally innocuous play. Kyle dove to the ground and knocked the ball away preventing an Arizona layup. It seemed like a great play. Kyle got up and was checking his elbow. It looked like a scratch. An Arizona player (I can't remember who) grabbed a ref and pointed out Kyle's now bleeding elbow. Kyle goes to the bench and tries to get it patched quickly. The ref makes him sub out of the game. It was somewhere around 18:30 to play. We then gave up an open 3FG and 2 layups while only scoring once. Our small lead was gone, but worse, the tide had turned. Arizona had seized control of the game. Andre hit a 3FG and Kyrie made a couple free throws; it gave us hope that we could regain the initiative, but that never happened. Over the next 3 minutes Arizona scored the next 13 points. We could never get much going after that.

It was an amazing play, that dive to save the layup. We will never know if we would have defended those next three plays better with Kyle on the floor, but I suspect that we would have. There's a pretty good chance that Arizona goes on their run anyway, but again, we will never know.

Congratulations to Duke on another wonderful season.
Duke 2011 ACC Champions!

Funny you mention that. I was at the game last night and I too thought it was pivotal. The trainer had Kyle cleaned up and ready before play resumed, only the ref would not allow Kyle back on the floor and we had to substitute instead. I expect it is a function of the NCAA rules, but K tried hard to get Kyle back on the floor before we started play and it just wasn't allowed.

Of course it also could just have been a precursor to what was coming.

ACCBBallFan
03-25-2011, 06:19 PM
Did anyone catch the post-game presser where Williams said that some words from opposing players motivated him and made him want to elevate his game and play harder? He didn't want to say who it was that talked trash to him, and he even said he wasn't calling out any Duke player in particular. But he definitely was motivated by some trash talk by someone during the game.

Anyone else catch that?Yes, I caught that too, but I was not sure if he meant someone on Duke or not, because of the way he phrased it.

Normally Kyle would be the trash talker, not Ryan or a Plumlee, but Derrick got his 25 when he was not being guarded by Kyle and "only" 7 in second half when it was Kyle.

That was one of the differences. Whoever Kyle guarded in each half did not score so much, but whoever the bigs guarded or did not as trhe case may be on the wing, did, and at will.

Then when Kyle had the four fouls, Zona did a good job makig him continually switch in a yo-yo, and MoMO hit that step back with Kyle all over him.

ACCBBallFan
03-25-2011, 06:25 PM
Am I the only one who thinks the game might have gone differently if not for two plays?
1) The ridiculous 3 by Williams right before halftime. We should've gone in up by 9, despite outrageously good play by Williams. That three was a definite momentum-producer.

2) I remember a time when we were clawing our way back into the game, down 9 or 10. We finally get a stop (or a steal?) and Nolan leads the 2-on-1 break. He goes right to the hoop for the finger-roll that he's been making all season long. Instead, it bounces off the front rim so hard that it leads to a fast-break lay-up on the other end of the court. Lead should've been 7 or 8; instead it was 11 or 12, and the momentum completely shifted.


Just a brutal game. I think a lot of it had to do with AZ getting into "the zone," or whatever you want to call it; maybe if a couple of things had gone our way they would've lost some of that confidence and played like humans. If they had done that, we would've had a fighting chance.


That sequence was when I gave up on the comeback. We had cut the lead from 14 to 11, the run-out would have cut it to 9 and given us a little momentum and maybe, just maybe, caused the Wildcats to start feeling nervous.

But the finger roll was shortarmed, and the rest is history.
The other thing about that play, not that it affected the game just the margin and final ray of hope, was that Kyrie took the charge at the other end, got bowled over, and no call.

During that stretch when Zona went from down 6 53-47 to up 11 66-55, they were 7 for 10 and two of the misses were offensive put backs that failed, ball went out of bounds but Zona ball. So effectively 7-8 from field and about 4-4 from line during that burst. Still had time but never cut into the lead.

If you are looking for reasons, there are a lot of them that come before whether and how much Kyrie played.

1. Getting out rebounded 25-9 in second half.

2. After Kyle makes a great effort play, he is out of game with a cut. Tries to get a quick patch and return but refs do not allow it since Kelly has already checked in at scorers table. By time play stops score is tied, actually Duke still up one but momentum had shifted..

3. Shortly thereafter Kyle is on wrong end of a charge/block call that could have gone either way and picks up his third foul.

4. With more than 10 minutes in game Kyle picks up foul #4 on a cheapie that was a foul. Had to play tentative the rest of the game and quite a few good views of Zona dunks while he stood helplessly nearby. There were a couple that are usually called on attempts to block dunks that were not or he would have fouled out. BTW, agree with decision to keep him in.

5. Charge call on Dawkins again the right call was another momentum shift as was turnover by Kelly for a breakaway.

6. Two more big plays, Zona runs down the shot clock and hits a big three after having Duke scrambling to guard the two. Zona had a fast break, Kyrie took the charge and got bowled over but no call. Not the reason Zona won, but another reason they could not mount a comeback.

Having the ball continually jammed down their throats just took the heart out of Duke's comeback attempts. Derrick Williams had a great first half, only scored 7 in second but rest of Wildcats were all on fire.

MaxAMillion
03-25-2011, 06:36 PM
I thought the Villanova loss a couple of years ago was worse. We certainly were not up 6 in the second half before getting blitzed. In both cases the opponent looked stronger and more athletic. I was most frustrated by how much damage Arizona did on the boards. Coach Miller referenced that in interviews after the game. It is hard for any team to win a game when they don't compete on the boards.

ACCBBallFan
03-25-2011, 06:39 PM
Funny you mention that. I was at the game last night and I too thought it was pivotal. The trainer had Kyle cleaned up and ready before play resumed, only the ref would not allow Kyle back on the floor and we had to substitute instead. I expect it is a function of the NCAA rules, but K tried hard to get Kyle back on the floor before we started play and it just wasn't allowed.

Of course it also could just have been a precursor to what was coming.

Had just posted the same thing before I read these posts. In retrospect, perhaps coach K could have called a timeout when Duke got posession, but normally one would not expect such a dramatifc mojo shift.

On the sideline it looked like Kyle had to go back to the trainers a couple of times during that run to stop the bleeding, while his teammates and coaches could not stop the bleeidng on the floor. So he would not have been able to go in even if the refs had allowed it, except via a timeout after play resumed and Duke got possession.

So the analogy of a fight and a cut man or a race car driver pit crew has some merit. Kyle also took a beating on that alley oop with no call.

Net net though, score 77 and you ought to win. It fell apart on defensive end, and I think it had more to do with Zona running its stuff to perfection than to Duke defense just being average. Zona efficiency made it look more awful than it was.

ACCBBallFan
03-25-2011, 06:52 PM
This game made me miss Lance. We could have used his heart, his hustle, his passion, his scrappiness his leadership. Not to point fingers because they have been unbelievable throughout their careers and we wouldn't have gotten this far without them, but Kyle and Nolan needed to take it upon themselves to light a fire under the team - everyone looked like deer in headlights out there.

That's actually the scary thing about next year. Miles is the only senior and does not exude confidence.

Perhaps Seth being a fourth year junior can be a leader, assuming Kyrie goes pro.

It will be kind of like Carolina this year, a lot of talent but no upper classmen to lead them, or rely on a frosh to provide the spark be it Quinn and/or Austin.

cspan37421
03-25-2011, 07:02 PM
On the sideline it looked like Kyle had to go back to the trainers a couple of times during that run to stop the bleeding, while his teammates and coaches could not stop the bleeidng on the floor. So he would not have been able to go in even if the refs had allowed it, except via a timeout after play resumed and Duke got possession.

So the analogy of a fight and a cut man or a race car driver pit crew has some merit. Kyle also took a beating on that alley oop with no call.

Net net though, score 77 and you ought to win. It fell apart on defensive end, and I think it had more to do with Zona running its stuff to perfection than to Duke defense just being average. Zona efficiency made it look more awful than it was.

That concords with what I saw - the cut took longer to stop than anticipated. Possibly a timeout would have been wise, though those who are complaining that K didn't call timeouts in the 2nd half ... he did. Perhaps Kyle should have been on Williams in the first half, though. After all, they have the same height.

On the alley ooop (one of at least two we missed), I thought Kyle got hammered, but from an angle behind the basket, it was not clear - maybe the pass was too long. And remember, he seemed to have hit his wrist on the backboard on that one as well. Kyle is about the closest basketball example to the saying from Chris Spielman about the NFL: "You give body parts to this game." I think someone here has a sig line that "Singler is Iron" and that's about the case. What a guy - always hustling, never complaining.

Zona did run their stuff to perfection. They were lightning quick - not unlike 'Nova in 1985. Of course, we later learned what at least one of those guys was on .... But it's true, as great as Kyrie was on offense, he could not stay in front of his man on defense, from what I could see. I saw an earlier post about getting a non-call on a charge, but my recollection is that we did the sidestep with most of AZ as they drove to the basket. And more than once, Ryan seemed to be under the bucket with 2 AZ guys to deal with - one driving, and one in position. While we could have stood to have more ball movement on offense, AZ just blitzed us - they took it right to the rack, or dished and the shot seemed to always go down (or the rebound put it in). Those guys simply had another gear in them that we didn't. All credit to Sean Miller's adjustments at half - the guy is supposedly a coach's son, so it's no fluke.

BTW, I think he'd be an idiot to take the job at NCSU, which is fast becoming a graveyard for coaches. They may have history, but it's not recent anymore, and it's ever-fading. Even in '83 they were a Cinderella in the NCAAT, only making it by virtue of winning the ACCT. They have not been a dominant power in a very long time. There's really no upside to Miller going to NCSU, as far as I can see. Maybe a few more dollars, but for far fewer years, that's my guess.

ACCBBallFan
03-25-2011, 07:06 PM
second half = St. John's. Don't know what else they could have really done other than slow thing down some and try to limit possessions and be more efficient on offense as they were just not going to miss in the second half(and when they they did they got the rebound and score)...will be interested ot see number of empty possessions they had in second half, it could only have been a handful
I tracked it during the 19-2 run up 53-47 to down 66-55. Arizona was 7-10 in that spell and two of the misses did not result in a change of posesssion as offensive put back miss, consecutive offensive put back miss and out of bounds Zona's ball. Also hit all their FTs in that run.

Only score Duke had was Kyle in paint surrounded by three guys, Nolan had a three rim out, a floater bounce off, Kyrie banked one that went in and out, Mason jump hook everything right on that play except the result, etc.. Nolan later had the finger roll come up short.

A couple of air balls in second half, one by Nolan and another by Miles but Duke was getting shots, just not falling. And a very low 5-14 from 3, so not a case of living or dying by the 3 this time.

Nolan had the ball in his hands a lot in second half, just shot porrly at 3-14.

More a credit to Arizona than demerits to Duke.

-bdbd
03-25-2011, 07:11 PM
That's actually the scary thing about next year. Miles is the only senior and does not exude confidence.

Perhaps Seth being a fourth year junior can be a leader, assuming Kyrie goes pro.

It will be kind of like Carolina this year, a lot of talent but no upper classmen to lead them, or rely on a frosh to provide the spark be it Quinn and/or Austin.

A lot of next year's fortunes will be impacted by Kyrie's decision in the next few weeks. But we will be strong talent-wise - certainly top-2 in ACC (and Kerlina will also be impacted by a frosh-to-NBA decision). But we do have a SUPER Freshman class coming in, as well as some returning studs. I expect leadership from Curry and the Plumlees and maybe Dre and Ryan. Needless to say that Kyrie is an automatic leader if he returns. However, it will be less consistent w/o as much senior leadership as we had the luxury of having this go-round.

Kyle and Nolan have been just so special. And we've been incredibly blessed to get to watch them for four years!!!

But remember, the future's so bright... :cool:
:cool: :cool: :cool:

cspan37421
03-25-2011, 07:19 PM
Nolan had the ball in his hands a lot in second half, just shot porrly at 3-14.

More a credit to Arizona than demerits to Duke.


Here's a question - when KI was out, was Nolan getting some ball screens for his shot that he was not getting with KI in (at the same time)?

Though I have fewer (900) NCAA wins than Coach K, when I heard him say that KI was mostly practicing with the second team, it seemed to me that he should play KI with them, and keep the starting lineup as is, especially since having KI and NS playing together, that meant 2 PG and confusion about who is the SG. (assuming a 2 G lineup, I know we often run 3). Still, just look at the numbers, it's hard to deny there's no effect. I know no one wants to throw anyone under the bus (KI, NS, Coach K), but having listened to a number of observers on various sportstalk today, no one else seems to take seriously the notion that our performance last night (and vs. UM) had nothing to do with re-integrating KI into the offense. Yes, they could all be wrong. And NS sometimes does shoot a subpar % in getting his usual 20-25 PPG. But not this badly.

Now, I'll grant you - someone brought up this - maybe it would have been worse without KI's 28 pts. Would Nolan have really put up more with a different offense? Would our defense have been substantially better? Maybe not. True, 77 points is usually enough for us to win. But from the AZ side, this was a fast-paced game. We should have had more. Again, many reasons. And maybe this KI integration issue, even if true, might have only chipped away 8-10 pts if done flawlessly (not easy to do in such short notice). We probably still would have lost based on how AZ shot the ball. But perhaps it wouldn't have been a SJU-level beatdown.

[edit: he did keep the starting lineup the same, but the whole "starter minutes" thing meant that KI and NS played simultaneously more than a little]

-bdbd
03-25-2011, 07:21 PM
I apologize if I missed someone else saying this, but the other game that this reminded me of (in addition to the WV game last year that has been mentioned a few times) is the 1985 championship game when Villanova beat Georgetown by shooting about 80% from the field for the game and about 90% in the second half. Sometimes there is just nothing that you can do.

You know, there were times in the second half when I had that exact same feeling. They had more than one 6-points-per-game player hitting ridiculous fadeaway and driving shots and burying 60% from 3-poit range. So many bounces went JUST to the right spot for AZ. Hey, it happens. We didn't play great in 2nd half, but they were just OUT OF THEIR MINDS GOOD.

But one thing that hasn't gotten a lot of discussion, I think, was how our Defense got decimated early in the second half. Curry, who was playing a great defensive game gets knocked out of the game by a AZ player landing on him awkwardly, after just one minute of the second half, and Singler picks up his third and then fourth fouls. There were a number of plays in the middle and late second half where I though Kyle played back/sift b/c of the fouls. Kyle doesn't get the "screwed" end of a couple ticky-tack calls and Seth doesn't get injured on a freak play, and I think our D is in MUCH better shape in the second half.

Probably doesn't change the outcome, but certainly would have made AZ scoring a lot more difficult. Sigh....
:rolleyes:

ACCBBallFan
03-25-2011, 07:29 PM
100% completely disagree. There is some sort of old saying that you don't need talent to play good defense. Duke scored 77 points. That should be enough to win. The breakdown was on the defensive end. I'll buy maybe Nolan and Kyrie weren't in sync on offense, but that holds no water at the other end of the court.I agree with you on all counts. Nolan handled the ball plenty, just shot poorly which is rare for him. Offense though was not the reason Duke lost.

With repsect to playing better in ACCT, coach K and staff were seeing these fellow ACC teams for the second and third times, not the first as was case for Michigan and its 1-3-1 (Had seen it in prior years but second game of weeknd gives little time to prep). Also seeing Derrick Williams and team for the first time.

It turns out that having a big guard Derrick Williams and giving up 25 in first half worked better than having Kyle limit him to 7 while his Zona teamates scored 48 in second half.

Not sure if Plumlees and Ryan may not have fouled out if Duke had taken that course.

The more troubling part is the 93, not the 77.

jipops
03-25-2011, 07:49 PM
I'm one of those subscribing to the school of thought that Kyrie's comeback did have an adverse effect both offensively and defensively. This is a fault of no one. But we were at a distinct disadvantage of not getting Kyrie back until the part of the season where one loss ends the season. There was no adjustment period. Yet if a kid of his talent is able to play, you play him. Almost all season the offense revolved around Nolan dominating the ball. By the ACC tournament the team was clicking great in that system. In the AZ game, if you go back and look, Kyrie takes on the role of dominating the ball and Nolan is filling a role he hadn't been in since early December. I am convinced this had something to do with Nolan's performance. I am convinced this had something to do with the team's performance. It was a risk the staff had to take and unfortunately it didn't work out.

Rudy
03-25-2011, 07:52 PM
Did anyone catch the post-game presser where Williams said that some words from opposing players motivated him and made him want to elevate his game and play harder? He didn't want to say who it was that talked trash to him, and he even said he wasn't calling out any Duke player in particular. But he definitely was motivated by some trash talk by someone during the game.

Anyone else catch that?
The part I watched they were talking about some trash talk his own teammate had addressed to him sometime earlier, either this season or last. "Momo" had called Williams a "skinny"--somethingorother and Williams said he used trash talk as a motivator to do better. Williams actually acquitted himself well in the presser. He was asked how he felt when he hit the three at the end of the first half. He said he didn't think it was going in and was pleased but he wasn't celebrating since he wasn't like that and anyway they were still 9 points down and didn't have anything to celebrate.

ACCBBallFan
03-25-2011, 07:55 PM
NOTE: What I'm about to say is absolutely not directed at an individual poster. This is about a subsection of this board that keeps bringing up what is quoted above. So please, no one think I'm getting on you personally. I'm not.

I see several people saying this but I vehemently disagree that Kyrie being back with the team was somehow a bad thing or that he and Nolan couldn't co-exist because they both needed the ball in their hands. Sure, there's always going to be some amount of reintegration when a player comes back after missing 3 months of action, but that was N-O-T the reason we lost last night. We lost, first and foremost, because AZ played out of their freakin' minds. If anyone wants to find a secondary reason then it has to fall to lack of rebounding and giving up too many 2nd chance points. Thirdly would be an inability to stop dribble penetration in the second half. But Kyrie and Nolan supposedly not being able to play together is bogus as far as I'm concerned. That may have played into the loss by about 1% out of all the other things that contributed. It was NOT a big deal and frankly I think it's a discredit to both players to keep harping on that.Well said, and I completedly agree.

Jay Bilas and Kenny Smith are saying it too, and I do not agree with them either. Nolan was handling the ball in second half, Zona was packing it in, and his shots that usually fall did not, but probelm was the 93, not the 77.

Perhaps the most surprsing stat after the 25-9 second half rebounds was that even being behind double digits half of the second half, Duke only attempted 14 threes.

Hitting only 5 on them was not that bad but letting Zona go 9-15 was. Credit for that goes to Derrick Williams both for the ones he hit and the threat he was to help them space the floor for the others.

With Seth injured, thought Duke might have played the Dawkins card more, but it was Zona's night and nothing would have prevented that.

ACCBBallFan
03-25-2011, 08:14 PM
Of course that was a foul. Mason got all ball but he crunched the guy with his follow through. I was hoping it would fuel a turnaround in our favor anyway, sort of like an intimidation "Not while I'm here are you dunking" move. But, not to be . . . .

How do I find the post-game presser (full clip, not just WRAL's edited version) ?

http://www.ncaa.com/menshighlights/?DB_OEM_ID=4200&c=turner_mmod_mens_pressers&p=514353&s=5081160&i=919907

SoCalDukeFan
03-25-2011, 08:14 PM
You generally need some luck to win a national championship.
I think we were lucky last year. No major injuries. Dodged playing Kentucky and Kansas. Played our best game against W. Va. Butler missed their last two shots. That is sports.

This year we were unlucky. This is certainly a better team if Kyrie is healthy all year. We caught Arizona on a night when they were on fire. Long trip and a late game. Seth's injury hurt and so did the time Kyle missed. That is sports.

Its better to lose these games than not be good enough to play them.

Love Duke

SoCal

BluDvlsN1
03-25-2011, 08:24 PM
I just got home from last nights game!
Reading this and other threads has many genuine and from the heart comments regarding our team! For our seniors to come back and finish out sends the exact Duke message out loud and clear! "We're student athletes"!!!. Thank you guys!

IMO, I believe the time change had a bigger impact on the team from an energy standpoint that we may think!
There was no answer for the run that AZ was on, they were making the play's and the place was a AZ madhouse, close enough to a home game!

While were represented, but our kids needed their crazies, they needed that support...I'm sure there are many reasons why this won't happen, but wouldn't it be great to take a plane load of crazies to these tournament games to help recreate the atmosphere to a degree.

The reality that we all know, every year that we are in the tournament we will have this exact same feeling , UNLESS we win the championship, everything else ends in a loss and dissapoinment, no matter sweet 16, great 8, final 4, championship game!

Yesterday, there was no answer for AZ, D Will was a man amoung men, when he hit that shot just before half, and Ryan was in great defensive position, sometimes it's all you can do! and that's how the game played out !

In reality another 30 win season with some really great kids reresenting a really great University !!
Really, how lucky are WE?

cspan37421
03-25-2011, 08:34 PM
Having watched the Duke post-game presser, the NCAA site automatically loaded the AZ one. Who here watched it?

I thought the guys for AZ were fairly articulate - esp. Solomon Hill - but one thing I picked up on interested me greatly. I think it was "momo" mentioned that, in the context of Derrick Williams' 25 point first half, putting a 6'11" guy on him was a mistake, a mismatch, that Derrick took advantage of. Now, IIRC, we outscored them the first half. So in a way, our "mistake" worked out for us. We did clamp down on him in the second half, but then everyone else got their points, stepped up, hit difficult shots, got calls against Plumlees, you name it.

What might have been the game if we simply let Williams beat his guy and clamped down on the rest? Who knows. Maybe no different outcome. But I did think it curious - a mismatch they exploited actually led them to be 6 down at half - and could have easily been 9, but for a lucky shot.

I partially agree with Coach K - the tourney is cruel - but I suspect that outplaying your seeding provides some sort of emotional cushion on which to land. Just ask VCU or Richmond, neither of which are likely to be playing after this weekend.

ACCBBallFan
03-25-2011, 08:55 PM
Having watched the Duke post-game presser, the NCAA site automatically loaded the AZ one. Who here watched it?

I thought the guys for AZ were fairly articulate - esp. Solomon Hill - but one thing I picked up on interested me greatly. I think it was "momo" mentioned that, in the context of Derrick Williams' 25 point first half, putting a 6'11" guy on him was a mistake, a mismatch, that Derrick took advantage of. Now, IIRC, we outscored them the first half. So in a way, our "mistake" worked out for us. We did clamp down on him in the second half, but then everyone else got their points, stepped up, hit difficult shots, got calls against Plumlees, you name it.

What might have been the game if we simply let Williams beat his guy and clamped down on the rest? Who knows. Maybe no different outcome. But I did think it curious - a mismatch they exploited actually led them to be 6 down at half - and could have easily been 9, but for a lucky shot.

I partially agree with Coach K - the tourney is cruel - but I suspect that outplaying your seeding provides some sort of emotional cushion on which to land. Just ask VCU or Richmond, neither of which are likely to be playing after this weekend.

Yes, since it rolled in before i exited, I watched it as well as BYU's and Florida's.

I agree with you and another poster who commented on how poised and articulate the Zona guys were. MoMo also showed some good leadership when he got on Fogg who was disputing a call when up 14.

Derrick says he is not the type to celebrate when still down 6 since he would not even do that when up 6, until game is over, very impressive kid. Kind of reminds me on his namesake Jordan Williams in that regard, tough on the court, gentle off it.

In retorospect, maybe better to let Williams score 50 and win by 12 than to guard him with Singler and lose by 44 if each half were annualized. But I think Sean Miller challenged them at halftime and they more than responded.

I was also impressed with how Sean subbed Derrick a few seconds before media timeouts at the 8:07 mark for example.

johnny2001
03-25-2011, 11:12 PM
Worst part about about this loss is that this team was perfectly constructed for a back to back run. Great seniors, upper class experience, and gear young talent. I mean you have basically 3 first team acc players on the team if you throw kyrie in there. Unfortunately if you look at duke next year with or without kyrie we look to be headed for what I would equate with Kentucky as a few years of postseason success dependent on solely young talent. Without monster performances from young guys next year in the freshman class (unless kyrie stays) duke is good but more like top 15 or 20 good. I hate being in a Kentucky like 1 and done scenario. Not quite as bad but to win it all certainly highly invested in freshman stars now that smith and singler leave...and Irving.

mapei
03-25-2011, 11:47 PM
I think Kyrie's presence had both positive and negative impacts - positive because he's our best player at creating. We might not have had a halftime lead without him.

But also negative, because his presence may have required Nolan to think more than just playing freely. It's hard to question that, pre-NCAAs, Nolan was one of the very best players in the country, maybe the best. He still showed it with his spurt against Michigan. But when the instincts you've been playing with all year and honing to such perfection no longer work as well because you don't have the same teammates, it's bound to have a downside.

On balance, maybe a net plus having KI back, even without an opportunity to get accustomed to each other again. But it probably did take something away from our best player, and then losing Seth, too, and Kyle's weird elbow situation taking him out of the game for an extended stretch . . . All that time we were getting a bit rattled, AZ was getting more and more confident.

On another point, while I agree we were athletic this year compared to past teams, we weren't athletic like D Williams is - we aren't big, quick *and* strong. We don't have anyone who intimidates, and K doesn't really recruit for that. He beats opponents with skill more than ferocity. Most of the time we're so good that it doesn't matter, but every so often we're exposed. Last night was one of those nights.

dcdrumsinc
03-26-2011, 12:22 AM
I'm one of those subscribing to the school of thought that Kyrie's comeback did have an adverse effect both offensively and defensively. This is a fault of no one. But we were at a distinct disadvantage of not getting Kyrie back until the part of the season where one loss ends the season. There was no adjustment period. Yet if a kid of his talent is able to play, you play him. Almost all season the offense revolved around Nolan dominating the ball. By the ACC tournament the team was clicking great in that system. In the AZ game, if you go back and look, Kyrie takes on the role of dominating the ball and Nolan is filling a role he hadn't been in since early December. I am convinced this had something to do with Nolan's performance. I am convinced this had something to do with the team's performance. It was a risk the staff had to take and unfortunately it didn't work out.


But does that really account for us giving up 93 points?

OldSchool
03-26-2011, 07:14 PM
IMO, I believe the time change had a bigger impact on the team from an energy standpoint that we may think!
There was no answer for the run that AZ was on, they were making the play's and the place was a AZ madhouse, close enough to a home game!


I was just about to post this same thought and saw your post.

I viewed the second half again and focused on our defense, slowing it down for each defensive possession.

I was shocked how mentally slow we were to recognize the rotations, and how physically slow we were to make the rotations.

When watching the game in real time it seemed to me like Arizona was playing out of their minds in the second half but now I think it was our lousy defense that made them look good. They were just doing basic things like dribble penetration and dishing.

If we play defense with the energy and mental alertness we had in, say, the ACC final, then I think we win that game.

So let me ask the question, if we are the higher seed, why is it us and not UCONN that has to play "midnight basketball" in practially a road game? Why weren't we given the earlier start?

1 24 90
03-26-2011, 07:44 PM
I was just about to post this same thought and saw your post.

I viewed the second half again and focused on our defense, slowing it down for each defensive possession.

I was shocked how mentally slow we were to recognize the rotations, and how physically slow we were to make the rotations.

When watching the game in real time it seemed to me like Arizona was playing out of their minds in the second half but now I think it was our lousy defense that made them look good. They were just doing basic things like dribble penetration and dishing.

If we play defense with the energy and mental alertness we had in, say, the ACC final, then I think we win that game.

So let me ask the question, if we are the higher seed, why is it us and not UCONN that has to play "midnight basketball" in practially a road game? Why weren't we given the earlier start?

In my opinion, Duke was given the later game simply because of TV ratings. It was the better matchup and I'm sure they didn't want it airing at 4:30 in the afternoon on the west coast. Same with OSU/Kentucky last night. The better matchup is usually second as it will be next Saturday in the Final Four.

Mudge
03-26-2011, 08:00 PM
I think this class of seniors did terrific things-- and Singler is up there with Battier, Alarie, Dawkins, Spanarkel, Hill, Marin, Duhon, and few others among my favorite Duke players ever... kudos to Singler and Smith for accomplishing many great things in their (FULL) careers.

That said, it was startling to see the problems in that second half against AZ; Duke looked tired, un-energetic, disorganized, and most shockingly, dispirited. Duke, at Coach K's urging, always talks about needing to play as five individual elements melded into a fist-- but that is not what Duke looked like in the second half-- often, Duke looked like five individuals on different pages during that benighted spell.

I am not sure what caused the meltdown-- at the highest level, it was obviously about not being able to stop AZ on defense; exactly why that occurred is not entirely clear to me, yet. I do think that Singler and Irving (who were able to score almost at will on their defenders in the first half) seemed to stop taking shots, or at least stop driving to the basket aggressively. But the biggest problem was the defense, not the offense.

Greg Anthony (far from one of my favorite people) said something very insightful after the game: Anthony said he had not seen Duke knocked backed like that and then failing to respond in "20 years". How ironic for him to note that: Anthony was part of the team that completely blitzed Duke 21 years ago in the final-- one of Duke's worst losses ever. That record-setting loss to UNLV in the final was the only time (since Duke got good under Coach K) that I ever felt like Duke's players gave up and quit fighting their hardest... but the AZ second half seemed almost as bad as that, in the last 10 minutes. In both of those games, Duke had no answer on defense, and almost seemed to stop playing as a team, but became a loose association of 5 individuals. The players stopped meeting at the foul line after fouls (to talk over strategy), and seemed like they were barely going through the motions in the last 5-10 minutes, rather than fighting their hardest to get back into the game.

I know that some will point out that this game was not that remarkable-- that Duke was blitzed by nearly the same score (and had nearly the same helpless look on defense) against St. Johns this year, and had similar bad losses featuring ineffective defense last year against Georgetown and NC State (and 2 years ago against Villanova and UNC)... to that, I would say, yes, but those teams weren't as talented as this Duke team (and Irving was out for the SJU game)...

What worries me is that this kind of rout (at the defensive end) seems to be happening with more frequency than it ever did before under Coach K since ~1984. Duke used to go years at a time, without having games where it could not get a stop on defense-- why is this now happening twice/year? I think one big concern is that the Plumlees (despite both of them being both extremely big and extremely athletic) often aren't real consistent with their defense-- their fundamentals often seem a bit short-- things like staying between the ballhandler and the basket, boxing out, guarding the pick and roll-- these are often neglected. I can remember significantly less talented teams (teams that played guys like Greg Koubek, Dan Meagher, and Marty Clark) not allowing opponents to score as easily as Duke teams have (in certain games) the last couple of years... it's perplexing, but Duke really needs to figure out how to defend (and rebound properly) down in the post, if Duke is going to reach its potential (which i would argue is really high, given the extraordinary talent of the current cast).

The bottom line: I hate it when Charles Barkley is right.

Mudge
03-26-2011, 08:15 PM
I viewed the second half again and focused on our defense, slowing it down for each defensive possession.

I was shocked how mentally slow we were to recognize the rotations, and how physically slow we were to make the rotations.

When watching the game in real time it seemed to me like Arizona was playing out of their minds in the second half but now I think it was our lousy defense that made them look good. They were just doing basic things like dribble penetration and dishing.

If we play defense with the energy and mental alertness we had in, say, the ACC final, then I think we win that game.

So let me ask the question, if we are the higher seed, why is it us and not UCONN that has to play "midnight basketball" in practially a road game? Why weren't we given the earlier start?

I made a big deal of this issue of start times DISfavoring the higher seeded teams, last year, when it kept happening to Duke (pointing out that it was hurtful to the higher seeded team to have less turnaround time than its opponent, in the short lag between a Thurs/Sat game), and most other posters last year said, in so many words: Bah, Humbug!...

Now it has come back to bite Duke: getting switched from Fri/Sun to Thurs/Sat took away an extra day for the team to practice with Irving, and the later start (on the West Coast to boot) was bad for Duke's players' internal body clocks, and would have meant 3 hours less turnaround time than UConn, had Duke won.

The ACC, at least, seems to understand that teams play all year for the advantage of positioning in the tournament, and the ACC rewards the higher seeds accordingly. I am really tired of the NCAA giving away the advantage that high seeds have earned during the year, because it means the NCAA can squeeze a few bucks more out of CBS for the tournament broadcast rights. If the NCAA has to take a smaller amount from CBS, in return for the NCAA being able to dictate the start time and scheduling of games in accordance with which teams have earned the most favorable scheduling, then it's high time the NCAA started putting the integrity of the competition above the interests of the broadcaster's ratings... having said that, I'm not sure even an earlier start would have saved Duke, if they were going to play defense like they did in the second half on Thursday.

Mudge
03-26-2011, 08:28 PM
Play some semblance of D in the second half? Grab 5 more boards? Give Kyle a breather when he was literally not defending at all due to fatigue and 4 fouls? That last one turned the game and maybe we didn't have alternatives but it seemed strange.

Feel bad for the guys. This is a disturbing trend though - 'Nova, Georgetown, St. Johns, Zona

Thankfully we have sandwiched a national championship around it so I'll chill out now that the game is over. Still until those games, I can't remember any Duke teams just laying down like that when faced with adversity. Can anyone else? Again, just a disturbing trend. Next play.
I just noticed this comment (and that others already noted the irony of the Greg Anthony comment, too)-- but this is more important-- your phrase said it best-- "a disturbing trend"... we have to figure out why several times each year, Duke simply cannot stop the opponent from scoring, short of using a shotgun...

Atlanta Duke
03-26-2011, 08:29 PM
If the NCAA has to take a smaller amount from CBS, in return for the NCAA being able to dictate the start time and scheduling of games in accordance with which teams have earned the most favorable scheduling, then it's high time the NCAA started putting the integrity of the competition above the interests of the broadcaster's ratings... .

If CBS said it wanted to schedule tipoff for the championship game at 3 a.m. because it would help ratings the NCAA would do it

The NCAA getting tough with CBS and ESPN is as likely as an addict standing up to his drug dealer

loldevilz
03-26-2011, 08:30 PM
Its been 2 days since that beatdown and I still can't understand how it happened. Its just unbelievable that a Coach K led team could totally fall apart like that. Just unfathomable.

The only thing that really seems to me to explain what happened was Nolan's complete disappearance. I love Nolan, but that was his worst performance of the year.

OldSchool
03-26-2011, 08:56 PM
I don't think this loss can be laid on Nolan's offense.

We gave up 55 points in the second half.

There is not a team on our schedule to whom we could spot 110 points and win (at least in regulation, Colgate would have taken us to overtime 110-110).

It looked to me like our bigs hit their bedtime first, and not long afterwards most of the others were fast asleep.

DukeCrow
03-26-2011, 09:02 PM
The part I watched they were talking about some trash talk his own teammate had addressed to him sometime earlier, either this season or last. "Momo" had called Williams a "skinny"--somethingorother and Williams said he used trash talk as a motivator to do better.

Interesting. Thanks for pointing that out.



Williams actually acquitted himself well in the presser. He was asked how he felt when he hit the three at the end of the first half. He said he didn't think it was going in and was pleased but he wasn't celebrating since he wasn't like that and anyway they were still 9 points down and didn't have anything to celebrate.

Yeah, I definitely liked Williams more after the presser. Seems like a great kid.

mapei
03-26-2011, 09:30 PM
All this talk about Duke playing "the late game" makes me wonder if there isn't some projecting going on by middle-aged men, many on the east coast. Duke's players are in their 20s and were playing at 7pm local time! There's just no way that was a factor.

Mudge
03-26-2011, 09:34 PM
Two things:
Although the Seton Hall loss in '89 feels a lot like this (from the final score and turnaround perspective), that one was different in that the loss of Brickey was much more crucial (and also, caused by a dirty play/intentional foul by Seton Hall) than the loss of Curry-- once Brickey went out, Duke had no one reliable down low to rebound, other than Ferry, and SH blitzed Duke on the boards... whereas Duke had a plethora of other guards to turn to, after Curry went out.

AZ coach Miller was really worried at halftime, when interviewed-- those of us who watched him at Xavier could tell-- he pointedly said that if Williams hadn't scored 25 in the first half, AZ would have been down by 20-- and that AZ needed to get him some help in the second half, and stop giving up so many second shots, by rebounding better... who knew his team would respond so well? Certainly not Miller, as he looked very concerned, as the second half was about to start.

This also brings up another point: rebounding is not as much about luck, as effort-- it is about fundamentals (positioning, blocking out) and effort (scrapping for balls), and also about energy level (going after loose balls), all, more than luck (which way the ball bounces), and for AZ to get 75% of the second half rebounds indicates that Duke was not doing a good job in at least one or two of those areas... it is all well and good to say that AZ shot lights out in the second half, but there still were enough missed shots to allow AZ to out-rebound Duke (IIRC) something like 26-9 in that half... that is down to a lot more than just bad luck.

Mudge
03-26-2011, 09:36 PM
All this talk about Duke playing "the late game" makes me wonder if there isn't some projecting going on by middle-aged men, many on the east coast. Duke's players are in their 20s and were playing at 7pm local time! There's just no way that was a factor.

Again, with a virtual Bah, Humbug! Ask Coach K if he'd have rather played this as the early game on Friday, rather than the late game on Thursday, and I think you'd get a firm "yes".

1 24 90
03-26-2011, 09:43 PM
Maybe it would have been better if Duke lost the ACC title game and then we would have been the #2 seed in the East and got to play Marquette on Friday in Newark provided we got by Washington.

OldSchool
03-26-2011, 09:54 PM
All this talk about Duke playing "the late game" makes me wonder if there isn't some projecting going on by middle-aged men, many on the east coast. Duke's players are in their 20s and were playing at 7pm local time! There's just no way that was a factor.


Videotape don't lie, bro. I invite everyone to carefully look again at the second half and make your own assessment of the energy level and mental alertness of the team, and come to your own conclusion.

When elite athletes are playing against each other with the maximum possible effort, even a small edge in mental alertness can make a significant difference in a game based so much on reaction time, such as basketball.

Of course I would never expect any player to come out and say this, because it would look as if they are not giving proper credit to Arizona for beating them.

El_Diablo
03-26-2011, 09:55 PM
Maybe it would have been better if Duke lost the ACC title game and then we would have been the #2 seed in the East and got to play Marquette on Friday in Newark provided we got by Washington.

FWIW, the head of the selection committee said they didn't factor in the ACC title game on the seeding. So it might not have mattered.

weezie
03-26-2011, 10:01 PM
FWIW, the head of the selection committee said they didn't factor in the ACC title game on the seeding. So it might not have mattered.

Isn't that just the weirdest aspect of this whole last week? The sheer luck and chance that comes into play during the NCAAs. Sad as it is to be out of the dance, it really does illustrate why the present tourney structure is best left the way it is. The four play in games are harmless enough, I guess, but no more of the camel's nose, please!

devildeac
03-26-2011, 11:05 PM
Maybe it would have been better if Duke lost the ACC title game and then we would have been the #2 seed in the East and got to play Marquette on Friday in Newark provided we got by Washington.


FWIW, the head of the selection committee said they didn't factor in the ACC title game on the seeding. So it might not have mattered.

That is an interesting discussion we had today before the Spring Game. It would be a bit hard to believe we could have retained a #1 seed if we had lost to unc x2 (http://crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/puke/huge.gif) and they had moved ahead of us in the human polls/RPI/Kenpom or whatever ranking systems were used. But, then again, the committee just makes some "unusual" decisions.

Kfanarmy
03-26-2011, 11:50 PM
FWIW, the head of the selection committee said they didn't factor in the ACC title game on the seeding. So it might not have mattered.

So many mixed messages out of the committee. I believe one of them also mentioned waiting to see how the ACC tourney turned out before completing their work. Frankly beyond admitting who was on the committee and the announced seeding, I don't think you can put too much stock into what this year's bunch said publicly, privately, or subconsiously.

Kfanarmy
03-27-2011, 12:15 AM
Don't know how many people watched it, but I tuned in for the last 5:00 of Arizona's game tonight. Their legs were shot. I thought it a bit odd that they never seemed concerned about saving energy in the last few minutes against Duke. With a significant lead, I think K would have left something in the tank...anyway it looked like they were pretty much going on fumes at the end of the game...

roywhite
03-27-2011, 10:15 AM
Arizona finishes their season the same as St. John's, FSU, and VaTech---their absolute highlight was beating Duke.

In each case, their players displayed a super-intensity they did not exhibit against other opponents, and their fans either rushed the court or celebrated like they had just won the national championship.

It's a bit dismaying to see teams play at their peak when they have a chance to beat Duke, but I guess it comes with the territory.

ncexnyc
03-27-2011, 11:08 AM
Arizona finishes their season the same as St. John's, FSU, and VaTech---their absolute highlight was beating Duke.

In each case, their players displayed a super-intensity they did not exhibit against other opponents, and their fans either rushed the court or celebrated like they had just won the national championship.

It's a bit dismaying to see teams play at their peak when they have a chance to beat Duke, but I guess it comes with the territory.

Come on now, this is really grasping for straws. St. John's had some very nice Big East wins and flamed out in the tourney since they were missing one of, if not their best player. FSU had two tourney wins, just like us. The Wildcat's game yesterday went to the final shot. I'm pretty sure fans of those 3 teams have a very different perspective than you do. The VaTech game was a home game, which had the extra hype of being a College Game Day feature and they just did squeak by, but I'll concede this was their highlight of the year.

Lord Ash
03-27-2011, 11:26 AM
Agreed completely; beating Duke was ABSOLUTELY the highlight of the season for those teams. I've been to a number of Duke games at other schools before, and they treat it like the Superbowl. Just check out which games they stormed the court for. Duke games? Yep, every one. Other games? Eh, not sure.

ThePublisher
03-27-2011, 12:14 PM
I'm just now starting to stir around after this defeat. It really hits hard ending like that with such high expectations for this team.
I can now say bringing Irving back totally messed up our chemistry. Obviously he held his own in the arizona game, but Nolan suffered a lot from not having the ball. It took him out of his element he had gotten comfortable with.
Curry getting hurt really took one of our weapons out that really could have helped shoot us back in the game. Think if he had gotten hot and hit a few 3's during that awful 19-2 run arizona had, different game.
What really happened though is that Williams was unstoppable. We had no answer. I figured Singler would be on him and could at least contain him some, but that wasn't K's plan. He kept them from being down by 20 at the half and the game being over.

In the second half we came out flat and uninspired, very disappointing. I have no idea why thornton was out there with 5-6 minutes left and us down by 18. Irving, Smith, Dawkins and Singler with a green light to shoot and mason on the boards should have been the only option. I don't know what happened.

I really think the biggest thing was that our guys were playing a 730 game in california, so that's the same as a 1030 game here. So by the second half, when they got tired, they were playing at 1130p. Playing late after trying to make a 3 hour adjustment is a lot to handle. That's the only way I can explain the last of defensive or offensive effort in the second half. It was a total melt down. That's something that Coach K doesn't normally allow.

Bay Area Duke Fan
03-27-2011, 01:39 PM
Bottom line .... out played and out coached.

I can't recall ever seeing a more outstanding individual first half perfromance than Williams' on Thursday. The last shot of the half sent a message and changed the momentum of the game. The second half performance by AZ was very impressive ... they completely dominated.

Next play.

timmy c
03-27-2011, 03:59 PM
Interesting reading the plethora of ideas explaining what happened to Duke in the 2nd half of the Arizona game. Some make better arguments then others but you really can’t explain the kind of offensive anomaly we saw from Arizona. Statistically speaking, Arizona played way above their season norms.


Here are a few key stats to consider:

9-15 from 3 for the game (60%) - Arizona season average 39%

2nd Half:
* 18-26 from inside the arc (69%) – Arizona averaged 51% for the season
* Effective FG%: 62.5% - Arizona averaged 54% for the season
* 55 points in 36 possessions.
* Arizona had 18 misses in the 2nd half (including rebounded FT’s) and managed to collect 11 of those misses.

Arizona clearly played its best game of the season on Thursday night, Duke did not.

tendev
03-28-2011, 09:18 PM
Can't the explanation just be that Arizona has a very good college basketball team with an elite player who will be an NBA All-Star some day, who, by the way had an unbelievablely good game even for a guy that good. And by the way, the other players they have are pretty good players in their own right.

Then our team, having just played a very good half of basketball, lost the lead very soon after the end of the half and just, perhaps, like many mere mortals, just could not muster the effort to stop a steamroller.

It is not the first nor the last time this will happen.