Sweet 16/Elite 8 discussion thread

[JasonEvans]

Sorry to be a bit late to get this started, but this should be your destination for conversation about the upcoming Sweet 16 games. We are likely going to put the individual regional bracket threads to bed at this point as they have gotten a bit long and cumbersome.

I'll get things started. Feel free to comment and elaborate on the numbered comments below with anything from "Jason preaches the truth!" to "Dude, you are insane."


1) If we were to rank the quality of the 16 remaining teams, the SE-SW side of the bracket would only have one team (Kansas) among the top 8, IMO.

2) Anyone who thinks Ohio St is going to roll over Kentucky by hitting 50%+ of their threes again is wrong, IMO. The key to that game will be whether Kentucky can stop Sullinger inside. The Terrence Jones vs. Sullinger matchup is gonna be epic!

3) San Diego St's D versus Kemba Walker should be a fabulous matchup. It will likely be a low-scoring back and forth battle. This is the game Vegas rates the closest, calling it a pick'em.

4) UNC is a 6 point favorite over Marquette but Duke is a 10 point pick over Arizona? I think Vegas is expect Kyrie to be a major force this coming week. Either that or there are serious concerns about how good UNC is.

5) A whole heck of a lot of teams on the SE-SW side can see a very realistic path to reaching the national title game. If Florida State can just muster a little bit of offense over the weekend, they could be a real contender in all this mess.

6) I've got a feeling that Jimmer is going to go for 40 or 50 against Florida. I am not sure Florida is going to be able to keep up with that offensive pace.


-Jason "well, that should get you all started... enjoy" Evans

[TexHawk]

Sorry to be a bit late to get this started, but this should be your destination for conversation about the upcoming Sweet 16 games. We are likely going to put the individual regional bracket threads to bed at this point as they have gotten a bit long and cumbersome.

I'll get things started. Feel free to comment and elaborate on the numbered comments below with anything from "Jason preaches the truth!" to "Dude, you are insane."


1) If we were to rank the quality of the 16 remaining teams, the SE-SW side of the bracket would only have one team (Kansas) among the top 8, IMO.

2) Anyone who thinks Ohio St is going to roll over Kentucky by hitting 50%+ of their threes again is wrong, IMO. The key to that game will be whether Kentucky can stop Sullinger inside. The Terrence Jones vs. Sullinger matchup is gonna be epic!

3) San Diego St's D versus Kemba Walker should be a fabulous matchup. It will likely be a low-scoring back and forth battle. This is the game Vegas rates the closest, calling it a pick'em.

4) UNC is a 6 point favorite over Marquette but Duke is a 10 point pick over Arizona? I think Vegas is expect Kyrie to be a major force this coming week. Either that or there are serious concerns about how good UNC is.

5) A whole heck of a lot of teams on the SE-SW side can see a very realistic path to reaching the national title game. If Florida State can just muster a little bit of offense over the weekend, they could be a real contender in all this mess.

6) I've got a feeling that Jimmer is going to go for 40 or 50 against Florida. I am not sure Florida is going to be able to keep up with that offensive pace.


-Jason "well, that should get you all started... enjoy" Evans

Not sure if this is what you meant, but I don't think you'll see Jones on Sullinger much at all. It will be Harrellson/Vargas, with guys like Jones, Lamb, and Miller on the double-team. Could be wrong, of course.

And I am going to try to debunk the "Kansas has a cake-walk" theme, though I know I won't be successful:

VCU just obliterated Purdue, just a complete de-pantsing of Kenpom's #9 team. If they were not VCU, or they didn't have a 12 next to their name, it would be a different story.
FSU has the best defense in the country, and I can definitely see a 57-55 game in the E8. Bill Self has been incredibly successful at KU (85% winning percentage), but if you look back at the losses, most of them come when KU doesn't score 70 points. If they meet, and FSU can hold them, while not turning the ball over, an upset would not surprise me.
And this all completely ignores Richmond, who, in my view, has at least 3 Ali Farokhmanesh clones.

[COYS]

2) Anyone who thinks Ohio St is going to roll over Kentucky by hitting 50%+ of their threes again is wrong, IMO. The key to that game will be whether Kentucky can stop Sullinger inside. The Terrence Jones vs. Sullinger matchup is gonna be epic!


-Jason "well, that should get you all started... enjoy" Evans

The thing about Ohio State is that they are a truly excellent 3 point shooting team . . . with Diebler, of course, leading the way with 110 makes to 110 misses on the season. Shooting over 50% is unlikely, but shooting at least 40% and possibly higher is almost business as usual for them. As much as Duke gets labeled blindly as a live by the three, die by the three team, Ohio State relies on three pointers for a larger percentage of their scoring than Duke. I think if Ohio State wants to win, they will need to make their outside shots.

Interestingly, Kentucky is also an excellent three point shooting team while Ohio State's 3pt defense is not as good as Kentucky's on the season. If Kentucky is able to limit the outside shot from Diebler and Lighty while also getting Lamb and Knight to knock down a few of their own, I think three point shooting may actually favor Kentucky. The team that makes the most threes may in fact be the team that pulls out the victory.

[gumbomoop]

Among the many fine players for tOSU and UK, PG Aaron Craft is perhaps least known - outside the Big 10. IMO, his defense on Brandon Knight will be a [not necessarily the] key. Two of the very best frosh in the country. Craft was Big 10 DPOY. Great court sense, smart, smart. Heard Izzo singing Craft's praises on Dan Patrick show this morn.

[MChambers]

The thing about Ohio State is that they are a truly excellent 3 point shooting team . . . with Diebler, of course, leading the way with 110 makes to 110 misses on the season. Shooting over 50% is unlikely, but shooting at least 40% and possibly higher is almost business as usual for them. As much as Duke gets labeled blindly as a live by the three, die by the three team, Ohio State relies on three pointers for a larger percentage of their scoring than Duke. I think if Ohio State wants to win, they will need to make their outside shots.

Interestingly, Kentucky is also an excellent three point shooting team while Ohio State's 3pt defense is not as good as Kentucky's on the season. If Kentucky is able to limit the outside shot from Diebler and Lighty while also getting Lamb and Knight to knock down a few of their own, I think three point shooting may actually favor Kentucky. The team that makes the most threes may in fact be the team that pulls out the victory.
I can't really root for Kentucky, but I would like to see Ohio State not make the Final Four. Guess I'm a big Marquette fan this week.

I can't see how Kentucky matches up with Sullinger. Harrelson will have 2 fouls when he gets off the bus and Vargas probably can't play more than 10 minutes.

[gw67]

Sorry to be a bit late to get this started, but this should be your destination for conversation about the upcoming Sweet 16 games. We are likely going to put the individual regional bracket threads to bed at this point as they have gotten a bit long and cumbersome.

I'll get things started. Feel free to comment and elaborate on the numbered comments below with anything from "Jason preaches the truth!" to "Dude, you are insane."


1) If we were to rank the quality of the 16 remaining teams, the SE-SW side of the bracket would only have one team (Kansas) among the top 8, IMO.

2) Anyone who thinks Ohio St is going to roll over Kentucky by hitting 50%+ of their threes again is wrong, IMO. The key to that game will be whether Kentucky can stop Sullinger inside. The Terrence Jones vs. Sullinger matchup is gonna be epic!

3) San Diego St's D versus Kemba Walker should be a fabulous matchup. It will likely be a low-scoring back and forth battle. This is the game Vegas rates the closest, calling it a pick'em.

4) UNC is a 6 point favorite over Marquette but Duke is a 10 point pick over Arizona? I think Vegas is expect Kyrie to be a major force this coming week. Either that or there are serious concerns about how good UNC is.

5) A whole heck of a lot of teams on the SE-SW side can see a very realistic path to reaching the national title game. If Florida State can just muster a little bit of offense over the weekend, they could be a real contender in all this mess.

6) I've got a feeling that Jimmer is going to go for 40 or 50 against Florida. I am not sure Florida is going to be able to keep up with that offensive pace.


-Jason "well, that should get you all started... enjoy" Evans

Jason,

Thanks for starting this thread. I'm not sure who "we" in Item 1) is but a bunch of folks have been putting down Florida and Wisconsin from the get go. IMO, both teams belong among the top 8 and one will likely reach the Final Four. I suspect that it is part of the "our side of the bracket is always tougher" mind set that appears on this site every March. IMO, the Devils will dispatch of Arizona and the first quality team they will face will be in the Elite Eight.

gw67

[J4Kop99]

As much as I would like to see Ohio St. go down, I don't see it happening. Kentucky is too young IMO. They certainly have the talent, but tOSU matches up well and has been far more consistent.

As we all know, most anything can happen once you reach the sweet 16, but I think Ohio St., whether they hit 3's at a high % or not, will win by 10 or more. Ohio State is what you look for in a tournament team. They have good guard play, a dominant force on the low post, great shooters and lastly, they are very willing to play defense.

In the UNC match-up, I think it will look similar to their past couple games (besides duke). They will start off somewhat slow and then eventually pick the pace up and win by a few points. I do not think it will be a blow out, and I wouldn't be too surprised if Maquette won here, but I think UNC has the advantage and the talent... albeit young talent.

I think Butler wins. This one is a toss-up for me but I love the way Butler is playing right now. They have proven that experience does count for something and the way they can win close games is also very important moving forward. Wisconsin is solid and should play well due to their defense. It might be a game that finishes in the 50-60 point range.

I know everyone loves Jimmer but I think they're going down to Florida. The lack of size for BYU, added with the fact that Florida can throw multiple people at Jimmer is my reasoning for picking UF.

Kansas will win.

The most anticipated match-up for me, other than Duke of course, is SDSU vs. Kemba, Calhoun and Co. This will be a great one and I have no idea who I'd pick as the winner.

[Chitowndevil]

Kansas does NOT have a cake walk. I was at the games in Chicago. For about 70 of the 80 minutes they were on the floor, VCU was the best team there. Easily. As strange as this may sound their wins against Purdue and Georgetown were, if anything, more lopsided than the scores indicated. Obviously, Rodriguez (their PG) was outstanding, but I liked how active 6-9 Jamie Skeen was around the basket. They ran terrific sets, running Bradford Burgess and Brandon Rozell inside out off multiple screens- this really set them up from the perimeter. Both Burgess and Nixon played so much bigger than they are (6-5 and 6-4) and were completely unafraid to mix it up under the basket. They were an absolute thrill to watch. It was just amazing how crisply they executed at both ends.

Of course, arguably the best thing about this is now we won't have to hear about their first round upset of Duke every time somebody mentions VCU. Oh, and if anybody knows anyone related to the VCU band, congratulate them. They are flat out awesome. I would pay good money to be that band director for a game.

FSU's first game against Texas A&M was absolutley awful: the score was 7-0 10 minutes into the first half. Both teams looked like they'd be fodder for Notre Dame. I couldn't have been more surprised by that upset- FSU was on fire from the perimeter in the first half and really exploited ND in the post in the second. The Irish really had only one true post player and that caught up with them bigtime. Still, I think the 'Noles will have a hard time keeping pace with VCU. The big wildcard is obviously Singleton- he played limited minutes against ND and you wonder how many he'll play with the extra week of rest.

Thoughts on other regions:
- On paper, Wisconsin is the best team in the Southeast. But their glaring weakness is perimeter defense. Butler is a bad matchup in that regard. Howard and Vanzant are both over 42% from 3, and if Shelvin Mack has it going like he did against Pitt, the Badgers are in for a long day.
- While all eyes will obviously be on Jimmer Fredette, BYU and Florida comes down to whether BYU can keep the Gators off the offensive glass. If they can, BYU wins. If the game is close, BYU has a huge advantage (76% vs 67%) from the free throw line.
- Likewise for SDSU/UConn. Temple managed to nearly match SDSU on the offensive boards. UConn is actually a lousy shooting team, and if the Aztecs can limit them on the offensive glass, they will need a game for the ages from Kemba Walker to win.
- I think Marquette is a great draw for UNC. The 'Eagles have won ten games this season where the opposition scored over 80 points. Two of those were against Providence, which is 97th in the Pomeroy ratings. Six of them were against teams rated 289th or worse by Pomeroy. All of Marquette's wins over decent teams have come in games with 66 possessions or fewer; in UNC's last 16 games that's happened only twice.
- Kentucky and Ohio State is obviously the spotlight game here. UK is one of the few teams that's capable of matching the Buckeyes on the perimeter. Josh Harrellson's stunning emergence means the 'Cats may have an answer to Jared Sullinger down low. OSU's defense is strong, but they are actually not a great FG% defense- they excel at forcing turnovers and locking down the defensive glass. Kentucky is, suprisingly, a good ballhandling team and not that reliant on offensive rebounds. You have to give the edge to the Buckeyes, who have played like a team on a mission, but on paper this is a close game.

[Kedsy]

I think three point shooting may actually favor Kentucky. The team that makes the most threes may in fact be the team that pulls out the victory.

I hope you're wrong. All I want in the East Region is for the teams most capable of beating UNC to advance. I rooted for Washington against Georgia, and Syracuse against Marquette. Unless UNC has already lost, I'll be rooting hard for Ohio State against Kentucky.

[loldevilz]

Kansas does NOT have a cake walk. I was at the games in Chicago. For about 70 of the 80 minutes they were on the floor, VCU was the best team there. Easily. As strange as this may sound their wins against Purdue and Georgetown were, if anything, more lopsided than the scores indicated. Obviously, Rodriguez (their PG) was outstanding, but I liked how active 6-9 Jamie Skeen was around the basket. They ran terrific sets, running Bradford Burgess and Brandon Rozell inside out off multiple screens- this really set them up from the perimeter. Both Burgess and Nixon played so much bigger than they are (6-5 and 6-4) and were completely unafraid to mix it up under the basket. They were an absolute thrill to watch. It was just amazing how crisply they executed at both ends.


I didn't watch the VCU games but the FSU - Notre Dame was extremely lopsided. FSU looked to me like a final four team against Notre Dame. For the first time in a while the FSU offense has become extremely efficient. Bernard James is an excellent interior scorer who gets a lot of attention opening up the guard play from Kitchen, Snaer ect. There win wasn't a fluke.

I also think that the matchup against Kansas would be bad for Kansas because Florida State can throw out of bunch of big strong interior defenders (James, Gibson, White, Singleton) that can suffocate the Morris twins. I actually think FSU actually wins that region.

As for the East region. You would have to be crazy to think that anybody is going too beat Ohio State in that region. I think UNC will be Marquette and then lose to Ohio State in lopsided fashion.

[COYS]

I hope you're wrong. All I want in the East Region is for the teams most capable of beating UNC to advance. I rooted for Washington against Georgia, and Syracuse against Marquette. Unless UNC has already lost, I'll be rooting hard for Ohio State against Kentucky.

Um, don't worry, Kedsy. The last thing I want is UK to play UNC again! That would definitely be a case of hoping the gym would just explode. Ohio St. is a terrible matchup for UNC and if UNC continues winning, I would love to see the Buckeyes knock them off. Quite honestly, I wouldn't mind us playing Ohio St. Yes, they are a scary team, but we gotta beat the best to be the champs. If the road to the championship leads us to a FF 4 matchup with Ohio State then bring it on!

[COYS]

I didn't watch the VCU games but the FSU - Notre Dame was extremely lopsided. FSU looked to me like a final four team against Notre Dame. For the first time in a while the FSU offense has become extremely efficient. Bernard James is an excellent interior scorer who gets a lot of attention opening up the guard play from Kitchen, Snaer ect. There win wasn't a fluke.

I also think that the matchup against Kansas would be bad for Kansas because Florida State can throw out of bunch of big strong interior defenders (James, Gibson, White, Singleton) that can suffocate the Morris twins. I actually think FSU actually wins that region.

As for the East region. You would have to be crazy to think that anybody is going too beat Ohio State in that region. I think UNC will be Marquette and then lose to Ohio State in lopsided fashion.

FSU did look good, but how much of that was because of the 'Noles' fluke 3 point shooting and a really bad matchup for Notre Dame? The Irish don't really play defense and didn't have a creative force on the offensive end that could break FSU's stout defense down. I agree that FSU looks legit when their offense is going, but will their offense work as efficiently against a Kansas team that plays strong defense in its own right and possesses more scorers that are capable of creating offense than Notre Dame? The 'Noles have a chance (and for the sake of the ACC, I am hoping they win the region) but I'm not convinced that their offensive performance against Notre dame wasn't a fluke.

[dukelifer]

I was thinking about the coaches that are left and their FF resumes- 9 of the 16 have been to the FF and 6 have NC's. That is a pretty good group of coaches. The rich get richer.

I think these are right.

Duke, Coach K- goes with out saying - numerous FF, 4 NC
UNC, Williams - lots of FF, 2 NC
Fla,Donnovan- several FF, 2 NC
Uconn, Calhoun, several FF, 2 NC
San Diego State, Fisher, several FF, 1 NC
Kansas, Self, 1 FF, 1 NC
Kentucky, Calipari, 2 FF (well not really), 0 NC
Ohio State, Matta, 1 FF , 0 NC
Butler, Stevens, 1FF 0NC

[nmduke2001]

Does anyone know the records for each remaining team against the other sweet 16 teams? I don’t have time right now to go through the schedules, if someone has it handy that would be great.

[superdave]

Brigham Young 74-73 over Florida (56%)
San Diego St. 66-62 over UConn (67%)
Duke 79-69 over Arizona (84%)
Wisconsin 66-59 over Butler (80%) (http://kenpom.com/fanmatch.php?d=2011-03-24)
North Carolina 76-73 over Marquette(64%)
Ohio St. 74-67 over Kentucky (76%)
Florida St. 68-65 over VCU (65%)
Kansas 73-64 over Richmond (82%) (http://kenpom.com/fanmatch.php?d=2011-03-25)

So Marquette is the 2nd most likely upset according to the %. I'll take that.

[SMO]

Brigham Young 74-73 over Florida (56%)
San Diego St. 66-62 over UConn (67%)
Duke 79-69 over Arizona (84%)
Wisconsin 66-59 over Butler (80%) (http://kenpom.com/fanmatch.php?d=2011-03-24)
North Carolina 76-73 over Marquette(64%)
Ohio St. 74-67 over Kentucky (76%)
Florida St. 68-65 over VCU (65%)
Kansas 73-64 over Richmond (82%) (http://kenpom.com/fanmatch.php?d=2011-03-25)

So Marquette is the 2nd most likely upset according to the %. I'll take that.

It's remarkable that he has a greater likelihood of Duke winning than Kansas.

[davekay1971]

Obviously I want UNC to lose, and lose badly, every time they take the court. But, as long as Duke is still alive in the tournament, I'm not going to get to worked up about the 'Heels. Living in NC, a Duke loss to UNC in the final four would be a fate worse than death...but I have confidence and faith in our team, enough to actually look forward to this possible matchup.

Because Duke beating UNC in the final four, Coach K breaking Knight's all-time win record in the process, and possibly en route to back-to-back titles...that, my friends is a dream worth dreaming!

[dukelifer]

Obviously I want UNC to lose, and lose badly, every time they take the court. But, as long as Duke is still alive in the tournament, I'm not going to get to worked up about the 'Heels. Living in NC, a Duke loss to UNC in the final four would be a fate worse than death...but I have confidence and faith in our team, enough to actually look forward to this possible matchup.

Because Duke beating UNC in the final four, Coach K breaking Knight's all-time win record in the process, and possibly en route to back-to-back titles...that, my friends is a dream worth dreaming!
Yes- losing to UNC in the Final Four would be tough to take in this part of the world- perhaps years to recover. Not sure the basketball gods will allow that to happen. If it does, it will be an epic matchup- perhaps one of the most watched games in NCAA history.

[Jeff Frosh]

I have been going back and forth on this. I know this matchup is 2 games in the future, and our potential matchup with the winner is 3 games in the future. But I am torn. Playing the Tar Heels (rather than Ohio St.) in the Final Four would give us a (much) better chance of winning the national championship. But the risk (and stress) of losing to them is tremendous. Yet how sweet would it be to beat them for the 3rd time this season to advance to the championship game, and I am confident that we would beat them on a neutral court with all of the additional Kyrie practice/game time that there would be before that game. This is very tough. I am praying and rooting for an Elite 8 matchup between Kentucky and Marquette!

[Jeff Frosh]

I have been going back and forth on this. I know this matchup is 2 games in the future, and our potential matchup with the winner is 3 games in the future. But I am torn. Playing the Tar Heels (rather than Ohio St.) in the Final Four would give us a (much) better chance of winning the national championship. But the risk (and stress) of losing to them is tremendous. Yet how sweet would it be to beat them for the 3rd time this season to advance to the championship game, and I am confident that we would beat them on a neutral court with all of the additional Kyrie practice/game time that there would be before that game. This is very tough. I am praying and rooting for an Elite 8 matchup between Kentucky and Marquette!

Upon further reflection, I am an idiot. I can't root for UNC any way any how under any circumstance. There, I feel much better now.

[davekay1971]

Yes- losing to UNC in the Final Four would be tough to take in this part of the world- perhaps years to recover. Not sure the basketball gods will allow that to happen. If it does, it will be an epic matchup- perhaps one of the most watched games in NCAA history.

I was actually discussing, with a patient of mine (a UNC fan) in clinic today, the fact that a Duke-UNC NCAA tournament matchup has never happened, which is pretty amazing given (1) how often both teams have been in the tournament since the field expanded to include at large bids, and (2) how many times both teams have advanced deep in the field.

We agreed that a certain amount of divine intervention must be involved - a higher power keeping this from happening for the preservation of North Carolina.

So there, proof that there is a God, derived through ACC basketball.

At the end of the visit we agreed that such a meeting would not be allowed to happen this year, either. He expressed his conviction that God would make sure Duke didn't reach the final four, and I expressed my equally deep belief that God would make sure the Tarheels lost in Newark.

I mean, if God isn't a Blue Devil, then why is the sky Duke Blue?

[wilson]

...if God isn't a Blue Devil, then why is the sky Duke Blue?Actually, I'd say that the sky is much more nearly carolina blue. In fact, tar heels are very fond of asking this very same question, from their own point of view.
My response is always that God put that stuff up in the sky so we wouldn't have to worry about stepping in it.

[78Devil]

I have a very simple formula at this point for deciding who to root for/against. Other than rooting for Duke, I just don't want COACHES who might compete with K's record on Nat'l Championship, which means:

1. I really, really don't want Roy to get his 3rd NC (duh)
2. I really, really don't want Calhoun to get his 3rd NC (equally duh)
3. I don't want Bill Self to get a 2nd NC within just a few years
4. I don't want Florida's coach to get a 3rd NC.
5. I don't want Calipari to win anything, as all it does is validate "one and dones" and give the Kentucky fans a good excuse for forgetting his past sins.

I could put up with any of the others going through, if for some reason Duke could not.

[NYBri]

Guess I'm a big Marquette fan this week.

I'd love to see Marquette put together a couple of great games. I took notice of them early in the year.

They are playing well and if the 'holes don't watch it, they will be heading home quickly.

[uh_no]

I have a very simple formula at this point for deciding who to root for/against. Other than rooting for Duke, I just don't want COACHES who might compete with K's record on Nat'l Championship, which means:

1. I really, really don't want Roy to get his 3rd NC (duh)
2. I really, really don't want Calhoun to get his 3rd NC (equally duh)
3. I don't want Bill Self to get a 2nd NC within just a few years
4. I don't want Florida's coach to get a 3rd NC.
5. I don't want Calipari to win anything, as all it does is validate "one and dones" and give the Kentucky fans a good excuse for forgetting his past sins.

I could put up with any of the others going through, if for some reason Duke could not.

We understand that you hate all the coaches that don't coach at duke, but please take the effort to look up that Billy Donovan is the coach at Florida before you hate on him....

[House G]

Obviously I want UNC to lose, and lose badly, every time they take the court. But, as long as Duke is still alive in the tournament, I'm not going to get to worked up about the 'Heels. Living in NC, a Duke loss to UNC in the final four would be a fate worse than death...but I have confidence and faith in our team, enough to actually look forward to this possible matchup.

Because Duke beating UNC in the final four, Coach K breaking Knight's all-time win record in the process, and possibly en route to back-to-back titles...that, my friends is a dream worth dreaming!

A Final Four matchup with the Tarheels was discussed in this article by Gregg Doyal:

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/story/14844552/dukeunc-potential-in-final-four-just-too-juicy-to-ignore

[Jderf]

A Final Four matchup with the Tarheels was discussed in this article by Gregg Doyal:

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/story/14844552/dukeunc-potential-in-final-four-just-too-juicy-to-ignore

If Duke played Carolina in the Final Four, it would be bigger than the championship game. Period. It would be more important for each side, in the short term and the long term. And it would get better TV ratings. The next game would be an afterthought -- a big afterthought, but an afterthought nonetheless.

[shoutingncu]

If Duke played Carolina in the Final Four, it would be bigger than the championship game. Period. It would be more important for each side, in the short term and the long term. And it would get better TV ratings. The next game would be an afterthought -- a big afterthought, but an afterthought nonetheless.

Only if the winning team went on to lose, I'd say. A Duke win to tie Carolina or a Carolina win to put separation back... that's pretty important, too.

[devildeac]

I was actually discussing, with a patient of mine (a UNC fan) in clinic today, the fact that a Duke-UNC NCAA tournament matchup has never happened, which is pretty amazing given (1) how often both teams have been in the tournament since the field expanded to include at large bids, and (2) how many times both teams have advanced deep in the field.

We agreed that a certain amount of divine intervention must be involved - a higher power keeping this from happening for the preservation of North Carolina.

So there, proof that there is a God, derived through ACC basketball.

At the end of the visit we agreed that such a meeting would not be allowed to happen this year, either. He expressed his conviction that God would make sure Duke didn't reach the final four, and I expressed my equally deep belief that God would make sure the Tarheels lost in Newark.

I mean, if God isn't a Blue Devil, then why is the sky Duke Blue?


Actually, I'd say that the sky is much more nearly carolina blue. In fact, tar heels are very fond of asking this very same question, from their own point of view.
My response is always that God put that stuff up in the sky so we wouldn't have to worry about stepping in it.

And why else would the Divinity School be at Duke instead of DuncE? God made the correct choice:D.

[Jderf]

Only if the winning team went on to lose, I'd say. A Duke win to tie Carolina or a Carolina win to put separation back... that's pretty important, too.

Capitalizing on what is probably the only chance of the next fifty years for an intra-rivalry final-four victory? I mean, compared to that, championships come and go... :cool:. That would mean 1-0. For an indefinitely long period of time. Though I guess to back it up for real, you would have to pull off the next win, too.

[tommy]

Sorry to be a bit late to get this started, but this should be your destination for conversation about the upcoming Sweet 16 games. We are likely going to put the individual regional bracket threads to bed at this point as they have gotten a bit long and cumbersome.

I'll get things started. Feel free to comment and elaborate on the numbered comments below with anything from "Jason preaches the truth!" to "Dude, you are insane."


1) If we were to rank the quality of the 16 remaining teams, the SE-SW side of the bracket would only have one team (Kansas) among the top 8, IMO.

2) Anyone who thinks Ohio St is going to roll over Kentucky by hitting 50%+ of their threes again is wrong, IMO. The key to that game will be whether Kentucky can stop Sullinger inside. The Terrence Jones vs. Sullinger matchup is gonna be epic!

3) San Diego St's D versus Kemba Walker should be a fabulous matchup. It will likely be a low-scoring back and forth battle. This is the game Vegas rates the closest, calling it a pick'em.

4) UNC is a 6 point favorite over Marquette but Duke is a 10 point pick over Arizona? I think Vegas is expect Kyrie to be a major force this coming week. Either that or there are serious concerns about how good UNC is.

5) A whole heck of a lot of teams on the SE-SW side can see a very realistic path to reaching the national title game. If Florida State can just muster a little bit of offense over the weekend, they could be a real contender in all this mess.

6) I've got a feeling that Jimmer is going to go for 40 or 50 against Florida. I am not sure Florida is going to be able to keep up with that offensive pace.


-Jason "well, that should get you all started... enjoy" Evans

Great ones Jason. I'm most intrigued by #2. If Kentucky can guard Sullinger with one player, that will greatly reduce the effectiveness of their kick-out three-point shooting game, which has been central to their success this year. But it's not just Jones who has the body to man up against Sullinger. I think one of the emerging late-season stories this year has been center Josh Harrellson. He's 6'9" and 265 pounds, probably about the same as Sullinger, and super strong. He has been very effective at both ends of the floor. Sullinger plays below the rim. If Harrellson can body Sullinger without fouling, make him work to get anything done offensively, and then also keep him honest at the other end, thereby limiting Sullinger's ability to help against Kentucky's driving, the Wildcats will have a chance.

It makes me wince to write this, but I have to say Harrellson is reminding me of Brian Zoubek. Zoub had the huge, strong body, but (due in no small part to injuries) had a nondescript career until catching fire late in his senior year, and then of course was a key component in our big run to the title. Not saying UK will go all the way -- and I certainly hope they don't -- but Harrellson, like Zoubek, has been a difference maker.

[Neals384]

Does anyone know the records for each remaining team against the other sweet 16 teams? I don’t have time right now to go through the schedules, if someone has it handy that would be great.

Records against the other S16:
Team wins Losses Pct Teams Beat; Teams lost to
RICH 1 0 100% VCU
KS 1 0 100% AZ
OSU 3 1 75% FLST, FL, WISC; WISC
BYU 3 1 75% SDSU, SDSU, AZ; SDSU
DUKE 4 2 67% UNC, UNC, MARQ, BUTL; UNC, FLST
UNC 4 2 67% DUKE, FLST, FLST, KY; DUKE DUKE
WISC 2 1 67% OSU, MARQ; OSU
CT 2 1 67% MARQ, KY; MARQ
BUTL 1 1 50% FLST; DUKE
KY 2 3 40% FLA, FLA; FLA, UNC, CT
FLA 2 3 40% FLST, KY; KY, KY, OSU
SDSU 1 2 33% BYU; BYU' BYU
MARQ 1 3 25% CT; CT, WISC, DUKE
FLST 1 5 17% DUKE; UNC, UNC, OSU, FLA, BUTL
VCU 0 1 0% ; RICH
AZ 0 2 0% ; BYU, KS

[juise]

We understand that you hate all the coaches that don't coach at duke, but please take the effort to look up that Billy Donovan is the coach at Florida before you hate on him....

Eddie Munster has been off the air for a while. He may have forgot the name.

[gw67]

I didn't see the following link on the DBR front page. The article is from today's Washington Post and is about the top players in the West Regional.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/colleges/ncaa-tournament-west-region-is-where-the-stars-align/2011/03/22/ABqZlaDB_story.html

gw67

[MCFinARL]

An article in this morning's Post says the West Regional boasts the most star power, listing Derrick Williams, Kawhi Leonard, Kemba Walker, Nolan Smith, Kyle Singler and Kyrie Irving--I'd say three out of six ain't bad!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/colleges/ncaa-tournament-west-region-is-where-the-stars-align/2011/03/22/ABqZlaDB_story.html

[nmduke2001]

Records against the other S16:
Team wins Losses Pct Teams Beat; Teams lost to
RICH 1 0 100% VCU
KS 1 0 100% AZ
OSU 3 1 75% FLST, FL, WISC; WISC
BYU 3 1 75% SDSU, SDSU, AZ; SDSU
DUKE 4 2 67% UNC, UNC, MARQ, BUTL; UNC, FLST
UNC 4 2 67% DUKE, FLST, FLST, KY; DUKE DUKE
WISC 2 1 67% OSU, MARQ; OSU
CT 2 1 67% MARQ, KY; MARQ
BUTL 1 1 50% FLST; DUKE
KY 2 3 40% FLA, FLA; FLA, UNC, CT
FLA 2 3 40% FLST, KY; KY, KY, OSU
SDSU 1 2 33% BYU; BYU' BYU
MARQ 1 3 25% CT; CT, WISC, DUKE
FLST 1 5 17% DUKE; UNC, UNC, OSU, FLA, BUTL
VCU 0 1 0% ; RICH
AZ 0 2 0% ; BYU, KS

Thanks for this. It's interesting that KS only faced one team remaining. Also, AZ is 0-2. Hopefully that becomes 0-3 tomorrow.

[MCFinARL]

An article in this morning's Post says the West Regional boasts the most star power, listing Derrick Williams, Kawhi Leonard, Kemba Walker, Nolan Smith, Kyle Singler and Kyrie Irving--I'd say three out of six ain't bad!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/colleges/ncaa-tournament-west-region-is-where-the-stars-align/2011/03/22/ABqZlaDB_story.html

Apparently I can't edit this post any more; wanted to apologize for double posting--I tried to open a new thread on this because I hadn't seen the earlier post in this thread.

[gw67]

The following link was on the front page of the Post this morning and is a nice discussion of the the two Richmond schools still in the NCAAT and their students and alums. I have long-time neighbors from both schools and they are very different folks (artsy craftsy vs old money). As often happens, the coaches from both schools are hot commodities. Mooney (Richmond) has been around for a while and is well thought of in the Mid-Atlantic region. He is articulate and personable and I suspect that he eventually winds up in the ACC. Smart (VCU) is one of the youngest Division I coaches at 33 years old. According to articles that I have read, he communicates well with the youngsters who play for him. He was a point guard for a small Ohio school, Kenyon, and his last name is appropriate (Magna Cum Laude graduate).

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/colleges/ncaa-tournament-gives-vcu-and-richmond-something-in-common/2011/03/22/AB3hm9EB_story.html

gw67

[Tjenkins]

Chitowndevil wrote:

Of course, arguably the best thing about this is now we won't have to hear about their first round upset of Duke every time somebody mentions VCU. Oh, and if anybody knows anyone related to the VCU band, congratulate them. They are flat out awesome. I would pay good money to be that band director for a game.

I work at VCU, yes, this is bigger than the Duke game 4 years ago. Kenny Mayne is walking around campus today doing person-on-the-street interviews, that never happened in '07. In the future, when VCU is mentioned, the first thing that comes to mind for most people will be the name Shaka Smart(even if he gets a better job in 2 weeks).

I don't know the band director, but yeah, the band here is fantastic.

[ChicagoHeel]

The graph below if from Luke Winn's sweet sixteen power ratings (http://tourney.si.com/2011/03/23/power-rankings-the-sweet-sixteen/?eref=sihp) (where he has UNC 7th and Duke 3rd). I knew UNC was considerably less experienced than most other remaining teams, but I was surprised that Duke is too. I guess I could have figured it out, but I would not have thought Duke would rank lower than UK. Good news for you guys is that everyone in the West is on the low end in terms of junior/senior minutes.
1908

[superdave]

The graph below if from Luke Winn's sweet sixteen power ratings (http://tourney.si.com/2011/03/23/power-rankings-the-sweet-sixteen/?eref=sihp) (where he has UNC 7th and Duke 3rd). I knew UNC was considerably less experienced than most other remaining teams, but I was surprised that Duke is too. I guess I could have figured it out, but I would not have thought Duke would rank lower than UK. Good news for you guys is that everyone in the West is on the low end in terms of junior/senior minutes.
1908

Experience was the main reason I thought Notre Dame had a run in them this year. But apparently if you're an average athlete who struggles defensively, experience does not overcome the talent gap. So I'd say a combination of experience and talent is necessary (see Duke 3 seniors, 2 juniors last year).

[MChambers]

Experience was the main reason I thought Notre Dame had a run in them this year. But apparently if you're an average athlete who struggles defensively, experience does not overcome the talent gap. So I'd say a combination of experience and talent is necessary (see Duke 3 seniors, 2 juniors last year).
SI's pundits have spoken and although 5 of the 6 pick Duke to win the West Regional (one picks SDSU), none pick Duke to go all the way. 4 pick tOSU and 2 pick KU.

I like not being picked to win.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/basketball/ncaa/mens-tournament/2011/03/22/experts.picks.2/index.html

[ice-9]

SI picking 4 seed Wisconsin over 2 seed Florida are also a sign of how much they respect KenPom, where Wisconsin is #4. Interesting that gamblers and "experts" go with KenPom more often, but the RPI is still used as the ultimate metric for NCAA selection and seeding.

[JasonEvans]

The graph below if from Luke Winn's sweet sixteen power ratings (http://tourney.si.com/2011/03/23/power-rankings-the-sweet-sixteen/?eref=sihp) (where he has UNC 7th and Duke 3rd). I knew UNC was considerably less experienced than most other remaining teams, but I was surprised that Duke is too. I guess I could have figured it out, but I would not have thought Duke would rank lower than UK. Good news for you guys is that everyone in the West is on the low end in terms of junior/senior minutes.
1908

That graph is sorta interesting to look at, but pretty meaningless in the grand scheme of things without some valuable perspective.

Take Kentucky, getting 28+ minutes per game out of Senior Josh Harrellson. That's a good chunk of the game where a senior is getting minutes... except Harrellson didn't even play as a freshman and was pretty much just a benchwarmer the past 2 seasons. Is getting 28 minutes from this senior the same as getting 28 minutes from a kid as experienced in big games as Nolan Smith or Kyle Singler?

And what do you do with Seth Curry? He's a soph in terms of his class, but this is his third year of playing college ball. Where does he fall on that chart? I can tell you that he has a ton more experience than Harrellson, that's for sure.

What's more, as we have seen over and over again in recent seasons, having those young studs -- the freshmen and sophs who turn into NBA lottery picks -- is a huge key to NCAA tourney success. Now, no one is saying you should have all freshmen on your team (hey to John Calipari), but having a good mix of future lottery picks and experienced upperclassmen seems to be a pretty solid formula when it comes to making a deep NCAA tourney run.

Anyway, that is an interesting chart but, aside from Kansas, most of the top national title contenders would appear to be at the "short end" of the upperclassmen graph.

-Jason "UNC reliance on young guys is impressive-- if those kids stay in school a couple more years, Carolina will be very tough" Evans

[gw67]

I’ve reached that stage in the NCAAT where I’ve seen all the teams play at least one game so I’ll predict the winners for tonight’s games based on what I have seen:

Duke – Arizona

This may be one of those rare occasions where the best player on the floor is not wearing a Duke uniform. Williams didn’t look great in the game I saw him play but the pro scouts love him and I expect him to have a good game tonight. The rest of the Arizona team is undersized although they are a better shooting team than Duke. The Devils have more talent, considerably more size and they play better defense. I don’t see anyone on Arizona who can stop the combination of Smith, Singler and Irving. I like the Devils to win this game by 8-10 points.

Florida – BYU

The Gators have a nice combination of experience, size and skill. The backcourt of Walker and Boynton is skilled and fun to watch while the frontcourt is big, big and bigger. Parsons is a nice all around player, Macklin has developed into good center and Tyus appears to be a strong defensive player. All are seniors and 6-8 or taller. BYU relies on Fredette and contributions from a variety of players. Based on what I’ve seen, Emery is a good defensive player, Hartsock is an outstanding shooter and Abouo is their best all around player. Overall, Florida has too much talent for the Cougars and should win by double digits.

Butler – Wisconsin

I expect this game to be close. Butler appears to have the advantage in the backcourt while Wisconsin has the advantage in the frontcourt. Statistically, the Badgers are a slightly better shooting team from the field and, I believe that they are the best in the country from the foul line (82% as a team). Wisconsin also takes better care of the ball (13 apg vs 7 tpg). I expect that it will come down to either a player getting hot or in foul trouble. I like the Badgers to pull out a victory.

UConn – SDSU

This is a tough game to pick because I’ve not seen either play many games. Walker and Oriakhi are terrific players for the Huskies while Leonard and Thomas are impressive for SDSU. The rebounding battle should be fierce. I’ll pick SDSU for two reasons: (1) this is close to being a home game for them and (2) I like their supporting players (Gay, White and Tapley).

gw67

[sagegrouse]

Neither UConn or Kentucky has the overall consistency to win the next four games and win the NCAA tournament. But they are dangerous teams capable of beating anyone. Kinda like "death stars:" they can blow anyone up, but are just as likely to blow themselves up through erratic play.

The team I have seen most (other than Duke) is UNC, and I am completely puzzled by those guys. After playing for a month-and-a-half like one of the best teams in the country, the Heels have turned in five -- 5 -- mediocre performances in a row. What's going on? The effort is just not there.

UNC has a record of eking out close wins, with a record of 9-1 (nine and one!) in games decided by three points or fewer (including the Clemson OT game). UNC lost only to Texas, 78-76. And almost all were won at the very end. UNC is very big and talented, and the size is effective in the closing minutes when both teams are getting tired.

UNC should beat Marquette, but who knows?

sagegrouse

[78Devil]

I have also noted how many games UNC has squeaked out. I wonder if this gives them any kind of "team of destiny" feeling, which actually builds confidence. You keep thinking they will lose when they get behind and play so inconsistantly, but they keep on pulling it out at the end. Let's hope the law of averages catches up with them.

By the way, I really hate it that I root "against" someone, instead of just rooting "for" my team. But that's just the way it is with the UNC/Duke situation. I used to not be that way, until 'ole Roy showed up.

[uh_no]

Neither UConn or Kentucky has the overall consistency to win the next four games and win the NCAA tournament.


You don't win 4 games. You win 1 game, and then do that 3 more times.

[_Gary]

As much as I'd love to see Marquette take out UNC, I'm not seeing any reasonable way that happens. Sure, they could go nuts from 3-point land and hit 60% of their treys, or UNC could have a couple of players go down with injuries (not wishing that on anyone, just presenting crazy scenarios). But apart from something really unusual happening, the fact is UNC has a fantastic matchup against a smaller team that's not really going to slow them down or make them heave a bunch of shots up from long range. I look for the Heels to easily dispatch the Eagles, probably by double digits.

Ohio State just seems like a machine right now and while UK is capable of staying close if they play to their maximum, I'd expect a Buckeye victory. I look for that game to stay close for a while, but I see OSU pulling away in the 2nd half.

If those two things happen, I'm left with the unenviable task of rooting for OSU in the Elite Eight because... Heck, I'm never pulling for the Heels (no self-respecting Duke fan ever should). And trust me, I don't like Ohio State.

Kansas looks to have a cakewalk to the Elite Eight. As much as I love the Spiders, I think the pumpkin awaits. Nuff said there.

I'd like to think FSU would represent the ACC well and just crush VCU, but for some reason I think this one will be close. For me it's a toss-up.

I'm not a big Gator fan (sorry Stray), but I do think they have a favorable match up with what I believe is a good, but not great, BYU team. As long as Jimmer doesn't go absolutely bonkers with another 50+ point game, I think Florida squeaks by. Not sure why, but I liken the Gators run with the Tar Heels run. Both teams are pretty good, but also seem to be somewhat lucky in a weird way. I just don't buy either team as being legitimately a FF team, but with the way things have been going it wouldn't surprise me to see the Gators get back there.

As crazy as it may sound, I think Butler is probably the best team left in the SE bracket. To my way of thinking, Wisconsin's style of play fits in nicely with what Butler wants to do and see them playing Florida on Saturday for a chance to return to the Final Four.

The West region is a killer. Not only because it's Duke's bracket and I'm emotionally invested in it, but because I really can see any of these four teams breaking through and moving on to Houston. I believe I'm speaking with my head and not just my heart when I say Duke should win tonight. They really are the better team and unless they just lay an egg I like them to advance, winning by anywhere from 8-14 points.

The SDSU v UConn game is a real tough one to analyze. A case could be made that either/both teams are truly great and/or truly not so great. Frankly I think either team could come out and lay an egg. SDSU certainly isn't as battle-tested as UConn (all Big Least jokes aside), but they certainly have a great frontcourt edge with their size. I'm not saying it all comes down to Kemba, but he'll certainly play a huge part in how this one shapes out. If the game is close late, you have to like UConn. And oh how I don't want to play them again. Maybe some of you do, but I don't. We've been snake bit by this team and while it doesn't rise to the much-dreaded, hypothetical, nightmare scenario of Duke playing UNC in the FF, it's pretty darn close to that in my book. If we end up winning tonight and then have to face UConn, it's gonna be either great jubilation or soul-wrenching agony for us on Saturday night. I'm just not sure I'm up to that. Plus, I think we match up better with SDSU (in spite of the crowd).

No matter how you slice it, we might be looking at back-to-back nightmare/dream scenarios. Duke vs UConn and then Duke vs UNC. I must schedule a visit to my doctor right now! See you folks later tonight (if my hospital room has a good internet connection, that is). :D


Go DUKE!!!

[-jk]

SDSU is out in force, and they're rowdy and loud.

-jk

[superdave]

SDSU is out in force, and they're rowdy and loud.

-jk

SDSU seems to be on the receiving end of a lot of foul calls. Could mean trouble later.

[J4Kop99]

Kemba's starting to run wild...

And I don't know about you guys but I would take Lundquist/Raftery over the media favorite, Gus Johnson, any day of the week. There's something about Gus that's a little too much for me, although he does know how to call the buzzer beaters.

[_Gary]

I can't tell everyone how uneasy seeing UConn play this well is making me. Not looking ahead (really, really not), but I just hate seeing the Huskies playing with all this swagger. Brings back bad memories. Really bad ones.

[SCMatt33]

I can't tell everyone how uneasy seeing UConn play this well is making me. Not looking ahead (really, really not), but I just hate seeing the Huskies playing with all this swagger. Brings back bad memories. Really bad ones.

Hopefully, this helps you feel a little better about UConn. (http://bit.ly/dWiVh7)

Honestly, I wouldn't mind UConn winning like this. SDSU is making a lot of poor decisions and UConn is hitting some 3's (5-10 from outside). I think we would let them do this in a hypotheticalnotsayingitwillhappensoIcan'tjinxanyth ing matchup.

[loldevilz]

Hopefully, this helps you feel a little better about UConn. (http://bit.ly/dWiVh7)

Honestly, I wouldn't mind UConn winning like this. SDSU is making a lot of poor decisions and UConn is hitting some 3's (5-10 from outside). I think we would let them do this in a hypotheticalnotsayingitwillhappensoIcan'tjinxanyth ing matchup.

Unfortunately, some of us weren't even alive back in 1990, but thanks for the confidence boost.
However, if you saying this UCONN team isn't scary than you are lying. They are playing with incredible confidence and haven't loss a tournament game this season. They have the best player in the country at the most important position. They have an elite big man that rebounds the ball well on the offensive glass. They also get to the free throw line better than just about anyone. Not to mention the elephant in the room: Coach K has been out-coached in their last 2 meetings in the NCAA tournament.

[wilson]

Coach K has been out-coached in their last 2 meetings in the NCAA tournament.Disagree. I'll grant that K was perhaps outcoached in the '99 title game, but if anything, I think he outcoached Calhoun in '04. That UConn team was better top to bottom than our team, and we outplayed them for about 38 minutes. Then the officials got involved.

[superdave]

Hopefully, this helps you feel a little better about UConn. (http://bit.ly/dWiVh7)

Honestly, I wouldn't mind UConn winning like this. SDSU is making a lot of poor decisions and UConn is hitting some 3's (5-10 from outside). I think we would let them do this in a hypotheticalnotsayingitwillhappensoIcan'tjinxanyth ing matchup.

Ah, Laettner. If you're too young to remember seeing Laettner play, well, that guy scalped every opponent and took a bite out of the heart before moving on to the next game. I think there's a German word to describe this - BadA.....

Nolan and Kyle will be channeling this tonight.

[superdave]

Disagree. I'll grant that K was perhaps outcoached in the '99 title game, but if anything, I think he outcoached Calhoun in '04. That UConn team was better top to bottom than our team, and we outplayed them for about 38 minutes. Then the officials got involved.

Indeed. Even my Carolina friends said Duke got jobbed. While I'd love to have a crack at Calhoun since we're better, I'll take whatever we can get. I just want to move on tonight.

[77devil]

Hopefully, this helps you feel a little better about UConn. (http://bit.ly/dWiVh7)

Honestly, I wouldn't mind UConn winning like this. SDSU is making a lot of poor decisions and UConn is hitting some 3's (5-10 from outside). I think we would let them do this in a hypotheticalnotsayingitwillhappensoIcan'tjinxanyth ing matchup.

The look on Calhoun's face when K hugs him speaks volumes.

I'd prefer to play UConn on Saturday. The SDSU crowd is large and loud. Nolan and KI can put plenty of pressure on Kemba Walker. We match up fine with Uconn.

[superdave]

This appears to be a battle of tempo-

SDSU wants to play half court, force UConn to defend for 30 seconds and let the Aztec D kick in.

UConn wants to get up and down, shoot 3s, scramble for O rebounds.

They are back and forth on who controls the tempo - it's been a game of runs so far. Not sure how this plays out, but SDSU is controlling things as of now.

[DukeBlueHeart4]

Indeed. Even my Carolina friends said Duke got jobbed. While I'd love to have a crack at Calhoun since we're better, I'll take whatever we can get. I just want to move on tonight.

Two of my best friends are Carolina graduates and we were just talking about this. You know it's obvious when even Carolina fans can admit it.

[superdave]

Two of my best friends are Carolina graduates and we were just talking about this. You know it's obvious when even Carolina fans can admit it.

Yeah, since they dont have souls and all that.

OK - time to focus on hoping these teams wear each other out.

Also, time to focus on Jimmer losing so we can sway some NPOY votes Nolan's way.

[yancem]

I think that Duke matches up a little better with UConn and therefore would have a better chance at beating them. But a big part of me wants SDSU to win because if Duke were to loose in the Great 8, I would much prefer to loose to them than UConn.

That being said, Duke needs to take care of business tonight or it won't even matter.

[moonpie23]

walker drilling a three and then some swagger........not looking good for the home team.....

will they all pull for AZ???

[loldevilz]

OK - time to focus on hoping these teams wear each other out.


You clearly didn't watch the Big East tournament.

[_Gary]

Well, I'm not too young to remember that great shot by Christian in 1990. It's one of my favorite all time moments watching a Duke game because one of my friends, who's a semi-UConn fan was watching the game with me and after UConn scored and we were in the TO drawing up that final shot, he was so sure the Huskies were going to win. When Christian's shot went in he calmly got up and walked out the door of my apartment without ever saying a word. It was priceless.

Having said that, and agreeing we got jobbed in '04, I still don't want any part of this very, very confident and battle-tested UConn team. Crowd noise aside, I think we match up much better with SDSU. But at this point with 5 minutes to go it feels like the Huskies are going to pull away.

[_Gary]

Stick a fork in SDSU. They are folding like the proverbial house of cards. That completely idiotic technical really seemed to turn the tide.

[superdave]

Stick a fork in SDSU. They are folding like the proverbial house of cards. That completely idiotic technical really seemed to turn the tide.

SDSU hanging tough. They have some athletes. They hit the boards well, and grind better than you'd expect. If they just took better care of the ball, they've got some talent. C'mon SDSU!

[_Gary]

Never mind what I just said. LOL

[_Gary]

Well, no one can say the Aztecs don't have heart. They did battle back but just dug too deep of a hole late. It's over now. Should we be fortunate enough to get by Arizona, an old nemesis stands in the way - yet again.

[ajgoodfella7]

I hate Connecticut, and I hate Jim Calhoun. They are my 2nd most hated team, and Calhoun is my 1st most hated coach. Just can't stand them and I'm really hoping we get a chance to send them home.

[loldevilz]

Ugh. Well, if we win it will be that much sweeter.

[ice-9]

UConn wins dang it - was hoping for SDSU. Walker looked really, really good and we're gonna have our hands full containing him.

Assuming we get past Arizona of course...

[_Gary]

I hate Connecticut, and I hate Jim Calhoun. They are my 2nd most hated team, and Calhoun is my 1st most hated coach. Just can't stand them and I'm really hoping we get a chance to send them home.

You and me both. I really loath Calhoun and UConn. Nothing will ever replace my hatred for the Heels, but UConn is a close second. I so don't want them to win another title! If there is anything to sports karma this UConn team should not win the title. They have so much dirt on their hands as an institution it disgusts me.

[ChicagoHeel]

Although there is still a lot of basketball to be played, there is an outside shot that Duke could have one of the most satisfying tournament runs in history, i.e. beat UConn and UNC in back to back games. Too bad you can't see Kentucky in the final.

[_Gary]

So far the Sweet 16 has been anything but sweet for me. UConn and Florida are both advancing, and I didn't want to see either of them move on. I hope the tide changes later tonight.

Frankly I don't want to even think about facing UNC in a Final Four. It's just unnatural and apocalyptic.

[superdave]

Although there is still a lot of basketball to be played, there is an outside shot that Duke could have one of the most satisfying tournament runs in history, i.e. beat UConn and UNC in back to back games. Too bad you can't see Kentucky in the final.

One at a time, buddy.

[NYBri]

Got to focus on the business at hand.

Beat Arizona!!!!

GO DEVILS!

[Utley]

So far the Sweet 16 has been anything but sweet for me. UConn and Florida are both advancing, and I didn't want to see either of them move on. I hope the tide changes later tonight.

Frankly I don't want to even think about facing UNC in a Final Four. It's just unnatural and apocalyptic.

The better team won both game. I hope that tide keeps coming in.

[_Gary]

The better team won both game. I hope that tide keeps coming in.

Can't disagree with you there. But Florida is only barely better than an extremely overrated BYU team. It's almost always about the draw, and Florida has really had a great one thus far and will have a great chance to advance to another FF because neither Wisconsin or Butler are world-beaters. Heck, I thought heading into Selection Sunday the four best teams in the nation were Ohio State, Duke, Kansas and UConn. Yep, you read that correctly. There was just no way that Huskies team was a 3 seed. I know they couldn't have rightly been assigned a #1 or #2, but in reality they were playing as well as anyone and so no one should be surprised to see them in the Elite Eight. And Florida lucked out getting in Pitt's bracket, because I knew they weren't for real.

Now it's time for Duke to take care of business!

Go Duke!!!

[superdave]

Man I do not care about these two. As long as our Devils are playing, these guys can do what they want.

Slow pace but I like Butler to make plays over the course of the game. Ok so maybe I do care. C'mon 2nd half.

[dynastydefender]

I can't really root for Kentucky, but I would like to see Ohio State not make the Final Four. Guess I'm a big Marquette fan this week.

I can't see how Kentucky matches up with Sullinger. Harrelson will have 2 fouls when he gets off the bus and Vargas probably can't play more than 10 minutes.


Don't worry. I can't root for Duke. Unless they are Playing UNC. Then I will put on the Horns!!

[dynastydefender]

I have a very simple formula at this point for deciding who to root for/against. Other than rooting for Duke, I just don't want COACHES who might compete with K's record on Nat'l Championship, which means:

1. I really, really don't want Roy to get his 3rd NC (duh)
2. I really, really don't want Calhoun to get his 3rd NC (equally duh)
3. I don't want Bill Self to get a 2nd NC within just a few years
4. I don't want Florida's coach to get a 3rd NC.
5. I don't want Calipari to win anything, as all it does is validate "one and dones" and give the Kentucky fans a good excuse for forgetting his past sins.

I could put up with any of the others going through, if for some reason Duke could not.

"ever been convicted of a crime...felony or something like that?"
"Never convicted....no never convicted"

[superdave]

Here's some perspective for everyone this morning. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AY-iq58_oz4)

Super "Reliving old memories to get through the day" Dave

[dynastydefender]

Um, don't worry, Kedsy. The last thing I want is UK to play UNC again! That would definitely be a case of hoping the gym would just explode. Ohio St. is a terrible matchup for UNC and if UNC continues winning, I would love to see the Buckeyes knock them off. Quite honestly, I wouldn't mind us playing Ohio St. Yes, they are a scary team, but we gotta beat the best to be the champs. If the road to the championship leads us to a FF 4 matchup with Ohio State then bring it on!

I feel the same way when Duke and UNC play each other. However...hatred for UNC is universal. Something that binds the irrational wildcate fans with the pompous Duke Fans.

[dynastydefender]

Ah, Laettner. If you're too young to remember seeing Laettner play, well, that guy scalped every opponent and took a bite out of the heart before moving on to the next game. I think there's a German word to describe this - BadA.....

Nolan and Kyle will be channeling this tonight.

That's what UK fans felt like when Laetner ripped our hearts out in 92.
Can't make it any clearer than that.

[HCheek37]

Here's my list of who to root for and against with 12 teams left -

Root for:
Butler - was there a more gracious fan base to face in the title game last year?
Richmond/VCU - everyone loves the underdog
Marquette -because it would mean eliminating UNC, also Buzz Williams is entertaining
Arizona - much respect to this team after last night, plus some people prefer to lose to the eventual champs for what its worth

Eh, no preference
Ohio St
Florida
Florida St

Root against:
Kansas - Always mentioned in the top programs, hopefully not adding another trophy
UConn - Calhoun cheats and I can do without another Husky title
Kentucky - It would be vacated anyways
UNC-CH - GTHC GTH

[wva_iron_duke]

Can only now root for the Mid Majors and Fla. State. At least FSU is in the AAC and they won't get uppity in bball because its football interests will put them down. Also, it would stiffen the recruiting competition with its arch rival in Gainesville.
Yes, Marquette .But now the BE will say our 11th seed won rather than our top 4 seeds only won 3 games.
The ohio state. Well not since the 60's so let them sneak another in while their football team is on suspension.
Arizona. Trumping the eventual champion argument is that it could become a bball oasis/mecca out in the desert with little competition due to the absence of many good teams out West. "Go west young man" etc.
The rest. I don't need to say anything the choice is so loathsome. Guess UK since it will likely get vacated so nobody wins. in 2011

[sagegrouse]

UNC leads 40-15, after trailing 10-8 (when I tuned in). Uhhh,... That's 32-5.

sagegrouse

[1 24 90]

UNC leads 40-15, after trailing 10-8 (when I tuned in). Uhhh,... That's 32-5.

sagegrouse

Sure wish they didn't call over and back on Syracuse in a tie game with a minute left last week. Also, sure wish they didn't call 5 seconds on Texas either.

[Chris Randolph]

Must be nice playing an 11 and 12 seed with no dynamic player in the Sweet 16 :mad:

All about matchups and luck of the draw

[Scorp4me]

UNC leads 40-15, after trailing 10-8 (when I tuned in). Uhhh,... That's 32-5.

sagegrouse

I know where Marquette's missing shot is, it was carted off to Anaheim for last nights game. I mean really, Carolina gets a team that can't throw it in the ocean and we get a team that couldn't miss. Typical.

[_Gary]

Must be nice playing an 11 and 12 seed with no dynamic player in the Sweet 16 :mad:

All about matchups and luck of the draw

Nah, it's just that we weren't that good and UNC is truly the cream of the crop. *inserts serious eye rolls here*

Of course you're 100% correct. Matchups and the luck of the draw are playing out huge right now.

[gumbomoop]

Charles Barkley just uttered a howler during the UNC-Mar halftime: he said he thought UK's depth would wear down OSU. Huh? OSU plays 7 guys, and UK plays..... 7 guys, maybe, the 7th of whom is Eloy Vargas. Chuck really likes Coach Cal.

BTW, Greg Anthony hit the nail on the proverbial head, in commenting that Marquette's first half was as bad as a team could play. UNC playing ok, not great, really, but Marquette is making Duke's strange 2d half seem positively well played. UNC giving up a number of open 3s to Marquette - and not by design - but Marquette players are bricking 'em, every one, in every way.

Heels in a laugher.

Edit: Marquette starts 2d half unfocused. Buzz calls timeout with one minute gone. A laugher.

[diveonthefloor]

OSU will be the best non-Duke team UNC has played in a month.

No contest.

[RockyMtDevil]

Seriously, can the universe set up any easier for UNC? They haven't played or beaten ANYONE and they will be one win away from basically playing for the championship. I am almost sick enough to vomit. My god please let there be some justice in the world.

They are in the "sweet 16" playing the 11 best team in the Big East Conference. Seriously???? How unfair is all of this.

[kong123]

Seriously, can the universe set up any easier for UNC? They haven't played or beaten ANYONE and they will be one win away from basically playing for the championship. I am almost sick enough to vomit. My god please let there be some justice in the world.

They are in the "sweet 16" playing the 11 best team in the Big East Conference. Seriously???? How unfair is all of this.

UNC beat the team (Washington) that beat the team (Arizona) that beat you in the Pac 10 Championship. We played that team in the 3rd round.

[gumbomoop]

Shades of John Henson: Marquette player finally scores, bringing his team to "only" 26 down..... and he starts woofing. Gets a T.

The modern game is downright silly at times.

[_Gary]

UNC beat the team (Washington) that beat the team (Arizona) that beat you in the Pac 10 Championship. We played that team in the 3rd round.

Kong, if you don't admit that UNC has gotten some absolutely huge breaks in this tournament in terms of who they have, and more importantly haven't, played then you lose some serious cred with me. Come on, you know deep down in your heart the Heels haven't played anyone of any significance since the ACC Championship game.

[pfrduke]

Kong, if you don't admit that UNC has gotten some absolutely huge breaks in this tournament in terms of who they have, and haven't played, then you lose some serious cred with me. Come on, you know deep down in your heart the Heels haven't played anyone of any significance since the ACC Championship game.

Washington was the single most difficult 7 seed, and a much more difficult opponent to play than Georgia.

Better than Temple. Better than Texas A&M. And better than UCLA.

They got a break by getting Marquette instead of Syracuse - of all the S16 teams, only VCU would have been easier, and that's a tossup given the way they've been playing. But it's not like they've had a string of upsets along the way.

[uh_no]

OSU will be the best non-Duke team UNC has played in a month.

No contest.

After last night's showing, I wouldn't be afraid to say OSU will be the best team UNC has played all year, period. Now, if OSU gets blown out, then we might have an argument.

[_Gary]

Washington was the single most difficult 7 seed, and a much more difficult opponent to play than Georgia.

Better than Temple. Better than Texas A&M. And better than UCLA.

They got a break by getting Marquette instead of Syracuse - of all the S16 teams, only VCU would have been easier, and that's a tossup given the way they've been playing. But it's not like they've had a string of upsets along the way.

I should have clarified a bit. By breaks I didn't mean just the quality of the teams, but the fact that certain teams are more battle-tested than others. Certain teams are more apt to fold than others based on conference and such. I didn't see Washington as a huge threat even though they gave Carolina all it could handle until they decided to "fold", which was not a huge surprise to me. Of course in that game you had a player making the most bone-headed thing I've ever seen in throwing up a shot with 4+ seconds still on the clock, from half-court, with his wrong hand! How is that not a "break" for UNC. The opposite of what Duke faced last night with a team that brought it for 40 minutes and never backed down. Big difference in my book.

[Scorp4me]

Charles Barkley just uttered a howler during the UNC-Mar halftime: he said he thought UK's depth would wear down OSU. Huh? OSU plays 7 guys, and UK plays..... 7 guys, maybe, the 7th of whom is Eloy Vargas. Chuck really likes Coach Cal.

Yeah Charles lost his credibility in that segment when he said Cal was a great Coach. Maybe Kentucky can beat Carolina and then have it vacated later. That way neither wins, lol.

[gumbomoop]

I'm aware of how little enthusiasm most Duke fans have for the rest of the tourney. Still, I do look forward to the UK-OSU game, not just because the winner gets UNC, but just on the merits. Especially look forward to Aaron Craft v. Brandon Knight.

And in a minor bit of good news, for those who detest UNC and UK almost equally, they're in the same bracket, so one very large fan base will be, um, blue, come Sunday eve. And possibly both.

[uh_no]

Yeah Charles lost his credibility in that segment when he said Cal was a great Coach. Maybe Kentucky can beat Carolina and then have it vacated later. That way neither wins, lol.

Say what you will about how he got the players, but he has taken a bunch of good players to the championship game....it takes a pretty good coach at least to get there, even with super talented players.

[Scorp4me]

Say what you will about how he got the players, but he has taken a bunch of good players to the championship game....it takes a pretty good coach at least to get there, even with super talented players.

Takes an even worse one to have all records of said games removed:)

[pfrduke]

Of course in that game you had a player making the most bone-headed thing I've ever seen in throwing up a shot with 4+ seconds still on the clock, from half-court, with his wrong hand! How is that not a "break" for UNC. The opposite of what Duke faced last night with a team that brought it for 40 minutes and never backed down. Big difference in my book.

If you're calling a decision made by a player while down by 3 points with less than 5 seconds to go a "break" for UNC (and including it within the scope of your earlier use of "absolutely huge breaks"), I think its your own credibility, and not that of other posters, that you should be worried about.

While Washington ultimately fell apart down the stretch, they were the toughest opponent UNC could have faced in that spot. And on the other side of the bracket, the toughest two teams are still playing.

Again, they got an absolute break getting Marquette instead of Syracuse - that was like a free pass into the Elite Eight. But their second round* game was by no means easy and their games from here on out will not be easy (unlike, say, Kansas, who gets two double digit seeds and then either an 8 or a grossly overseeded 2).

*using the traditional, common sense meaning

[Chris Randolph]

The so and so beat so and so who beat so and so talk is bogus....

UNC has caught 2 breaks in the tourney, playing an 11 seed in the round of 16 and that 11 seed playing absolutely horrible. No complaints or crying here about how "UNC is getting all the breaks," thats how it goes sometimes. Do I like it, no. But...........

Kansas on the other hand has caught a break every single round, ridiculous. And I don't like it cuz A) they are a really really good team who doesnt need this many breaks and B) they are a bunch of classless thugs.

[_Gary]

If you're calling a decision made by a player while down by 3 points with less than 5 seconds to go a "break" for UNC (and including it within the scope of your earlier use of "absolutely huge breaks"), I think its your own credibility, and not that of other posters, that you should be worried about.

While Washington ultimately fell apart down the stretch, they were the toughest opponent UNC could have faced in that spot. And on the other side of the bracket, the toughest two teams are still playing.

I stand by my statement. I think breaks are not only playing a lower seeded team because of an upset from the previous round, but also playing a team that makes an inexplicably silly play at the end of a game. Heck, everyone except Kenny Smith on the post game was calling that one. Carolina got a huge break there as far as I'm concerned. But to each his own.

[diveonthefloor]

After last night's showing, I wouldn't be afraid to say OSU will be the best team UNC has played all year, period. Now, if OSU gets blown out, then we might have an argument.

In March:

UNC lucks out against FSU March 2
UNC lucks out against Miami March 11
UNC lucks out against Clemson March 12
UNC lucks out against 7 seed U of W March 20

And now they are given the opportunity to embarrass the 11th worst team in the Big East for an opportunity to reach the regional final.

Classic.

[uh_no]

In March:

UNC lucks out against FSU March 2
UNC lucks out against Miami March 11
UNC lucks out against Clemson March 12
UNC lucks out against 7 seed U of W March 20

And now they are given the opportunity to embarrass the 11th worst team in the Big East for an opportunity to reach the regional final.

Classic.
If they really are that bad, then they won't beat OSU or UK....it's that simple. I don't care how far they get, really.

[acciconoclast]

Teams with easiest paths to FF since 1985

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703858404576214691558755966.html?K EYWORDS=kansas+ncaa

[gumbomoop]

Aaron Craft.

Sure hope to see him v. the oft-impressive - but, strangely, leaves his feet way too often - KM.

Aaron Craft. I think Clark Kellogg said he was unanimous Big 10 DPOY, as a frosh.

[ChicagoHeel]

In March:

UNC lucks out against FSU March 2
UNC lucks out against Miami March 11
UNC lucks out against Clemson March 12
UNC lucks out against 7 seed U of W March 20

And now they are given the opportunity to embarrass the 11th worst team in the Big East for an opportunity to reach the regional final.

Classic.

It would seem that every close game UNC wins is a function of luck. You cannot be serious.

[diveonthefloor]

It would seem that every close game UNC wins is a function of luck. You cannot be serious.

You're right....several of these were decided by referee miscues.

[_Gary]

If OSU doesn't wake up in a hurry then the Heels are going to dodge yet another bullet. While I do believe UK has the horses to hang with UNC, they aren't the same team Ohio State is. This is starting to look bad as it comes down the stretch. Neither team is impressing me a whole lot.

[gumbomoop]

Neither team is impressing me a whole lot.

Well, it's a fierce game, fierce, excellent defense. Sullinger has been brilliant, but UK's Harrelson is playing him solidly. Aaron Craft is a superb defender, smart, quick hands, perfect positioning both on the ball and on switches. Superb.

[LSanders]

OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If KY (Jelly) and the UCONNvicts end up in the Final Four, I'm becoming a water polo fan!!

[jipops]

Who would have thought back in January that UNC would be in the Final 4? But it has become apparent that UNC is one of the better, more talented teams out there. Even with the loss of 2 players throughout the season, they continue to show plenty of depth. And yes, I'm quite sure they get the win over UK.

[devildeac]

Disagree. I'll grant that K was perhaps outcoached in the '99 title game, but if anything, I think he outcoached Calhoun in '04. That UConn team was better top to bottom than our team, and we outplayed them for about 38 minutes. Then the officials got involved.

The officials were involved way before the 38 minute mark:mad:.

[Bluedog]

Who would have thought back in January that UNC would be in the Final 4? But it has become apparent that UNC is one of the better, more talented teams out there. Even with the loss of 2 players throughout the season, they continue to show plenty of depth. And yes, I'm quite sure they get the win over UK.

I would say because of the loss of 2 players, UNC has improved. Not in spite of. Roy is stubborn with going as deep with his rotation as he can, while not playing his best players huge minutes. The loss of probably the two players that hurt UNC the most made UNC a better team. Man, this sucks. I have to cheer for Kentucky on Sunday? Painful....OSU chose a bad night to not shoot well. Still had a chance to win it, though.

[Utley]

Duke Thumped, and UNC, KY and UCONN 3 of the remaining 8. God, how I love Kansas all of a sudden.

[dcdrumsinc]

Not a good tournament to be a Duke fan at this point. UCONN, UNC, and UK all have a great chance of getting to the final game while we sit at home. And on the other side, Florida (who I have nothing against), but if Billy Donovan wins his 3rd NC, he is only 1 behind our beloved Coach K. Wow. This sucks. In fact, if Roy or Jim calhoun win it all, they will also have 3 NC. Really sucks :(

[devildeac]

UK vs unc in East Regional Final. I think I am going to be sick. Where is the meteor?:mad:

[Gthoma2a]

I have to say that I was quietly thinking this a moment ago. Let's go BULLDOGS (them doing it two years in a row says that they deserve a reward to me)!!!

I could deal with Kansas or UConn, though. I respect Kemba Walker to an insane level.

[jipops]

I would say because of the loss of 2 players, UNC has improved. Not in spite of. Roy is stubborn with going as deep with his rotation as he can, while not playing his best players huge minutes. The loss of probably the two players that hurt UNC the most made UNC a better team. Man, this sucks. I have to cheer for Kentucky on Sunday? Painful....OSU chose a bad night to not shoot well. Still had a chance to win it, though.

I totally agree with the addition by subtraction thing. Things have worked out for UNC quite well this season. UNC vs. Kentucky is a terrible predicament. I don't think I'll be able to bring myself to watch it. It's a lose-lose situation as far as I'm concerned.

[1 24 90]

I think we all need to pull hard for Kansas on the opposite side of UConn/KY/UNC. We need to have a good team in the title game.

[loldevilz]

Call me crazy, but I think Kentucky wins it all this year. They have Josh Harrelson a dynamic rebounder and a great point guard. This is the year Calipari breaks through.

Hopefully he gets it revolved soon after lol.

[uh_no]

I think we all need to pull hard for Kansas on the opposite side of UConn/KY/UNC. We need to have a good team in the title game.

I'm pretty sure they are going to ROFL their way into the championship game....til the final four at least....but butler might have something to say.....

[gumbomoop]

Credit to Knight for the clutch final shot, after have been shut down by Craft. Craft doesn't do much offensively, but it's easy to see why he was Big 10 DPOY. He stopped Knight over and over, got steals and flicks, and was in perfect defensive position on the last shot. But Knight hit it.

Barkley will be crowing about his buddy, Coach Cal. But I gotta say, UK's defense - and I guess D is actually Cal's forte - was wonderfully organized. Lots of blocks. Poor Buford just couldn't hit crap all night.

Intense game. Hard to top. A defensive classic, akin to Duke-Butler. Intense, every, every play. It wasn't Duke, but it was in-your-face D.

[AlaskanAssassin]

Credit to Knight for the clutch final shot, after have been shut down by Craft. Craft doesn't do much offensively, but it's easy to see why he was Big 10 DPOY. He stopped Knight over and over, got steals and flicks, and was in perfect defensive position on the last shot. But Knight hit it.

Barkley will be crowing about his buddy, Coach Cal. But I gotta say, UK's defense - and I guess D is actually Cal's forte - was wonderfully organized. Lots of blocks. Poor Buford just couldn't hit crap all night.

Intense game. Hard to top. A defensive classic, akin to Duke-Butler. Intense, every, every play. It wasn't Duke, but it was in-your-face D.


Craft forced Knight to his left the entire game except the last position, as a result, he drains it!

[Bluedog]

Florida State: last possession of regular session and OT. Don't get a shot off either time. How is that possible? Well, I guess Singleton may have gotten the shot off at the end of OT in time, but it looks half-effort and was blocked. Shocking that VCU is in the Elite 8. They've looked really solid, but I'll be cheering hard for Kansas as can't risk a UNC/KY/UConn championship.

[LSanders]

What a sad sorry sate of affairs ... An Elite Eight game so heinous I'm forced to root for the Holes.

Guess I picked the wrong day to stop drinkin'.

[uh_no]

An Elite Eight game so heinous I'm forced to root for the Holes.



Surely you can't be serious.

[wk2109]

Assuming the KenPom ratings (http://kenpom.com/) hold, this season will be the first time since 2007 that the #1 rated team won't win the national championship and the first time since 2003 that the #1 or #2 rated team won't win. I'd been hoping that the top-2 run would last...(with #2 winning it all of course)

[Chris Randolph]

What a sad sorry sate of affairs ... An Elite Eight game so heinous I'm forced to root for the Holes.

Guess I picked the wrong day to stop drinkin'.

This can't be right, rooting for UNC. Surely that is a typo

[tommy]

I think we all need to pull hard for Kansas on the opposite side of UConn/KY/UNC. We need to have a good team in the title game.

Worse than that for me. Those three plus Arizona have long been my four most disliked programs in college hoops. Arizona having nothing to do with last night's game, but rather due to the arrogance of Lute and his program during his run. Now one of those four is guaranteed to be in the national finals. Ugh. It does make me want to root for Kansas, to maximize the chances one of those four doesn't win. I guess over Arizona if I had to choose one. I'd rather Butler beat one of em, but Kansas would have a better chance I guess. Again, ugh.

[Kedsy]

An Elite Eight game so heinous I'm forced to root for the Holes.


Sorry, but I'm rooting hard for the 'Cats. For one day only, Kentucky is my second favorite team.


Assuming the KenPom ratings (http://kenpom.com/) hold, this season will be the first time since 2007 that the #1 rated team won't win the national championship and the first time since 2003 that the #1 or #2 rated team won't win. I'd been hoping that the top-2 run would last...(with #2 winning it all of course)

This is not correct. To make this statement, you have to look at pre-tournament rankings. In 2009, for example, Memphis was Pomeroy's #1 team before the tournament started and they didn't make the Final Four. I don't have pre-tournament Pomeroy numbers before that, but if his #1 team didn't win in 2007, 2009, and 2011 (without knowing who his #1 was in 2008), that's not so good. My guess (without knowing for sure) is his pre-tournament #1/#2 thing doesn't hold as well as you think it does, either.

[sbroc012]

well I guess we best jump on Sir Charles Barkley's Arizona bandwagon and ride it to the national championship game...where hopefully Butler and their undergrad coach can win it

[uh_no]

well I guess we best jump on Sir Charles Barkley's Arizona bandwagon and ride it to the national championship game...where hopefully Butler and their undergrad coach can win it

I hope that bandwagon crashes on later today :) go uconn

[AlaskanAssassin]

Didn't want to start a new thread, but this is huge for Ohio State:

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=6260339

I know most people change their minds, but he seems real and true to his word.

HB seems like this as well. No championship, no NBA.

Let's hope our own KI is like this!

[sbroc012]

Didn't want to start a new thread, but this is huge for Ohio State:

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=6260339

I know most people change their minds, but he seems real and true to his word.

HB seems like this as well. No championship, no NBA.

Let's hope our own KI is like this!

WOW! that is all there is to say about that! I hope he keeps his word

[wk2109]

This is not correct. To make this statement, you have to look at pre-tournament rankings. In 2009, for example, Memphis was Pomeroy's #1 team before the tournament started and they didn't make the Final Four. I don't have pre-tournament Pomeroy numbers before that, but if his #1 team didn't win in 2007, 2009, and 2011 (without knowing who his #1 was in 2008), that's not so good. My guess (without knowing for sure) is his pre-tournament #1/#2 thing doesn't hold as well as you think it does, either.

My statement was based on the final ratings, which is why I qualified it with "assuming the ratings hold." But you're right that if anyone wanted to use KenPom to predict the national champion before the tournament started, the pre-tournament ratings are what matters.

From what I've seen, however, the rankings don't change too dramatically over a span of a few games, so I'm guessing that the pre-tournament rankings and final rankings are not too different from year to year (but I don't have any numbers to back this up). I still put a lot of stock into his rankings, especially after last season when Duke was #1 almost wire to wire if I remember correctly. He made a blog post after the season to gloat to all the people who said throughout the season that Duke shouldn't have been rated so highly.

[wk2109]

Well there you go... I just checked KenPom again and Duke's dropped to #3 and KU is now #2. So much for what I was saying.

[jefreema]

this is, literally, the worst half of a bracket i could ever have seen. i mean, honestly, unc, uconn, arizona, and kentucky?!? really? i cannot believe one of them will be in the NC game. the only way this is worse is if you replace arizona with georgetown or ucla. i just cannot believe this is what we are left with. it's as if there is an active conspiracy to make me not care about the rest of the college basketball season. i blame the adjustment bureau.

and unc's path to glory seems to me to only be rivalled by their path to the final four in 2000. albeit,, not as ridiculous as that year by any stretch though.

[superdave]

If Carolina makes the FF (I cant bring myself to spell it out), I am going to wilt like a flower in the desert. My hope was we'd get to see Ohio State beat them 62-22 and all would be well. Not happy=me.

[_Gary]

I just wonder how many chickens Roy Williams has sacrificed this week to get such a lucky draw? I imagine the Heels have been eating Chicken Noodle soup for their pre-game meals for a while now. :p

[gofurman]

If Carolina makes the FF (I cant bring myself to spell it out), I am going to wilt like a flower in the desert. My hope was we'd get to see Ohio State beat them 62-22 and all would be well. Not happy=me.

to say nc has it easy though is to say Arizona isn't good. if AZ plays anywhere near that level we saw they could kill unc with the combo of three shooters (unc doesn't defend three well) and the man inside being one of the few that henson has trouble defending as he is so athletic.

assuming unc beats uk - ooh, that's bad karma for unc right there... I mean what time would unc play their next game? lol

but assuming unc beats uk (oh, I said it again) who do you hope is there UConn or AZ?

I say AZ but then their first game against Memphis wasn't inspiring but Miller seems to know what he is doing as a coach and tehy are so athletic - man those 6''6 and 6'7 wings were killing the boards by the end of that game with us. I could see that being trouble for nc also. thoughts - az or Uconn as better to beat UNC?

[ncexnyc]

What's so hard about deciding who to pull for? It's as simple as ABC.:D

[gofurman]

What's so hard about deciding who to pull for? It's as simple as ABC.:D

yeah, but who is a tougher match up for unc? Az or Uconn?
that's my question and I think a legit question on who to pull for as i want the one with the better chance to beat unc

I mean, we know unc will beat uk, right? unc is great. unc is great (there maybe that will piss off some karmaic being)

[gumbomoop]

Chuck really likes Coach Cal.

And yet..... just now on the CBS pregame show, Barkley has been railing over and over against one-dones, blasting the immaturity and underdeveloped skill level of the younger guys. It sure seems contradictory, unless Charles is carefully distinguishing Cal as an X/O master, from Cal's current, remarkable, recruiting strategy.

But the word "careful" just doesn't seem quite right for Sir Charles.

I do enjoy the NBA guys, especially Greg Anthony and mostly as a change from the wearing-thin Dick and Digger. I actually think Hubert and Jay could be very good, just the 2 of them together with Davis or whomever. But when either Dick or Digger is there, too much time is spent making fun of them, even if in good spirit. And Hubert transforms from a fine analyst into a Digger-focused cackle-dolt.

[uh_no]

yeah, but who is a tougher match up for unc? Az or Uconn?
that's my question and I think a legit question on who to pull for as i want the one with the better chance to beat unc

I mean, we know unc will beat uk, right? unc is great. unc is great (there maybe that will piss off some karmaic being)

I would have to go with uconn, and not just because im a uconn fan. I don't think arizona has the height to guard carolina's frontcourt. That's it.

[gumbomoop]

I've no idea how many posters viewed the UK-OSU game. Can't blame anyone who was so deflated by our exit that the enthusiasm was gone.

But it was a classic; indeed, reminiscent of the Duke-Butler NC in that it was intense D on every play. As I've posted several times, people who didn't know about Aaron Craft saw last eve why he garnered so many awards, as a mere frosh, in the Big !0, including unanimous DPOY. Even though Knight hit that great last shot, Craft was in perfect D position. And Craft dominated Knight most of the game [making UK's win all the more impressive].

I admire Kendall Marshall's brilliant passing skills and floor generalship. He knows how to compensate for his slowness by passing ahead, and by clever handle in tight spots. But watching Craft play D is a real pleasure: he gets position, keeps the correct distance from his opponent, gets through screens, scrambles to get loose balls all over the court. I pay no attention to the Big 10, nor, actually, to so many games because.... there are so many games.

But I tell you - and will again, next fall - you really should give a look at OSU next year, just to see Aaron Craft's D.

[J4Kop99]

I can honestly care less who wins this thing. Once we got bounced, all of my interest was gone.

If I had to choose, I guess I would pick Arizona... but that's not going to happen.


--I swear to god if Arizona and Derrick Williams have an off game today, I may honestly hit someone.

[Faison1]

There are many reasons I am bummed Duke lost, but one of them at this point is that there are absolutely no teams left in the tournament that I feel we would have needed Kyrie to beat.....

[Kedsy]

I have to say that making consecutive Final Fours from two relatively low seeds (#5 & #8), as Butler just did has to be one of the most amazing and improbable achievements in NCAA tournament history.

[1 24 90]

Before the season started who would have picked Butler to be the repeat final four participant from last year? Amazing and kudos to them.

[loran16]

I have to say that making consecutive Final Fours from two relatively low seeds (#5 & #8), as Butler just did has to be one of the most amazing and improbable achievements in NCAA tournament history.

Indeed. More so this year too (less NBA potential pros on the roster, harder path, etc.).

If Brad Stevens wanted to go to another job, he could get a job anywhere in the country for a lot. But I doubt he's going anywhere. And while they lose Howard (and 2 others), they keep Mack and a bunch of the youngsters show promise for next year. Scary.

[duke09hms]

My GOD, I really want Brad Stevens to be our next coach.

Everything about him just screams Duke - do things the right way, clean, classy.

If he could do this with Butler's less-heralded recruits, imagine what he could do with blue-chip recruits.

[FireOgilvie]

My GOD, I really want Brad Stevens to be our next coach.

Everything about him just screams Duke - do things the right way, clean, classy.

If he could do this with Butler's less-heralded recruits, imagine what he could do with blue-chip recruits.

I was just thinking the same thing.

[stillcrazie]

My GOD, I really want Brad Stevens to be our next coach.

Everything about him just screams Duke - do things the right way, clean, classy.

If he could do this with Butler's less-heralded recruits, imagine what he could do with blue-chip recruits.

I understand what you're saying and have had those feelings, but at the end of the day, I think he should stay at Butler and turn them into a powerhouse the way Coach K did it at Duke.

[Duvall]

I understand what you're saying and have had those feelings, but at the end of the day, I think he should stay at Butler and turn them into a powerhouse the way Coach K did it at Duke.

Don't see that happening without BCS money. Tom Crean had better hope that those recruits pan out, though.

[duke09hms]

I understand what you're saying and have had those feelings, but at the end of the day, I think he should stay at Butler and turn them into a powerhouse the way Coach K did it at Duke.

I want to have the best coach that wins the right way with the right players at Duke. Evidence seems to show that Brad Stevens fits those qualifications better than any other coach out there.

So far, he has shown more than other possible candidates like Dawkins, Collins, Brey, and Wojo.

I personally don't care about Butler turning into a powerhouse.

[loran16]

Don't see that happening without BCS money. Tom Crean had better hope that those recruit pan out, though.

Seriously. If Crean doesn't reach the tourney next year, he'll be fired and Indiana will ever the biggest contract ever to Stevens at this point

[duke09hms]

Seriously. If Crean doesn't reach the tourney next year, he'll be fired and Indiana will ever the biggest contract ever to Stevens at this point

Guess my rooting interests for the upcoming year will be Duke football, Duke basketball, and Indiana basketball.

[_Gary]

Anyone think AZ is getting totally hosed by the refs here in the first half? I know the 2nd one on Williams was totally bogus. And of course the moment he goes out UConn goes on a run. Early shades of '04 all over again.

[sbroc012]

Anyone think AZ is getting totally hosed by the refs here in the first half? I know the 2nd one on Williams was totally bogus. And of course the moment he goes out UConn goes on a run. Early shades of '04 all over again.

It's becoming completely evident to me that Arizona is a totally different team with Williams on the bench...no floor leader...no inside presence...is it really that simple that all we needed were some timely fouls called on him...this sucks

[dukelion]

Anyone think AZ is getting totally hosed by the refs here in the first half? I know the 2nd one on Williams was totally bogus. And of course the moment he goes out UConn goes on a run. Early shades of '04 all over again.

No need for Williams to reach in and pick up his third......he should have been smarter than that.

Wish he played like that the other night. He hasn't even attempted a three yet......if he goes the whole game without making one I'm pulling all my hair out.

[_Gary]

They definitely aren't shooting like they did against us, that's for sure. I think they've hit 1 out of about 10 three-pointers.

[snowdenscold]

They definitely aren't shooting like they did against us, that's for sure. I think they've hit 1 out of about 10 three-pointers.

I saw 1 for 11 at the half. Life is just that unfair sometimes.

[Atlanta Duke]

I saw 1 for 11 at the half. Life is just that unfair sometimes.

Someone on this board observed that a team usually has only one game in the tournament where they play lights out great (e.g. - Duke against WVU last year)

Unfortunately for Duke that game for Arizona was on Thursday night

I dread having to root for UConn next Saturday if Kentucky does not take out Carolina tomorrow - rooting for Calipari and Calhoun back to back just ain't right

[stillcrazie]

I want to have the best coach that wins the right way with the right players at Duke. Evidence seems to show that Brad Stevens fits those qualifications better than any other coach out there.

So far, he has shown more than other possible candidates like Dawkins, Collins, Brey, and Wojo.

I personally don't care about Butler turning into a powerhouse.

Good for you. I just like it when someone, like Coach K, has a sense of loyalty to the program he has built up and doesn't sell out to, say, the Lakers. But in the words of Dwight Schrute, "I want to work for the place that values loyalty the most."

[loldevilz]

Good for you. I just like it when someone, like Coach K, has a sense of loyalty to the program he has built up and doesn't sell out to, say, the Lakers. But in the words of Dwight Schrute, "I want to work for the place that values loyalty the most."

I couldn't disagree with you more. Part of the luxury of being a big time program is being able to take the best coaches from other programs. UNC took Roy after he went to final fours. I don't see any reason why Duke shouldn't take Brad Stevens from Butler.

[moonpie23]

Az NOT hitting everything they throw up, NOT hitting like 110% at the foul line.....NOT getting every rebound and NOT getting every loose ball.....


wow....whoda thunk it?

[Kedsy]

I don't see any reason why Duke shouldn't take Brad Stevens from Butler.

You ever consider that Brad Stevens might not want to be "taken"? He just signed a big, long-term contract with Butler.

[moonpie23]

sooooooooo...uconn held em off.......

yech...

[SoCalDukeFan]

hits the three against us to end the first half and misses this one today.

RATS


SoCal

[kong123]

wow, if you guys had to choose one of these three teams to win it all, which would you choose?

UNC, UCONN, or Kentucky?

[uh_no]

sooooooooo...uconn held em off.......

yech...

UCONNNN!!!!!!

okay done gloating.

Arizona stopped going down inside, and uconn couldn't get to the foul line in the second half, but one thing they did do well that duke did not was stop the penetration. AZ had their way down low all game. I'm happy for my huskies, and glad tehy could avenge the duke loss.

[duke09hms]

You ever consider that Brad Stevens might not want to be "taken"? He just signed a big, long-term contract with Butler.

Possibly. Brad Stevens has 9 more years on his contract. K can go 9 more years.

BANG we have ourselves a new coach!

[moonpie23]

wow, if you guys had to choose one of these three teams to win it all, which would you choose?

UNC, UCONN, or Kentucky?

ABC ......abc...

[Atlanta Duke]

wow, if you guys had to choose one of these three teams to win it all, which would you choose?

UNC, UCONN, or Kentucky?

UConn - since Calhoun already has won it all twice UConn winning a third one will not be as distasteful to me as Calipari temporarily winning his first title until it is vacated or losing bragging rights back to the Carolina grads I know

[g-money]

Someone on this board observed that a team usually has only one game in the tournament where they play lights out great (e.g. - Duke against WVU last year)

Unfortunately for Duke that game for Arizona was on Thursday night

I dread having to root for UConn next Saturday if Kentucky does not take out Carolina tomorrow - rooting for Calipari and Calhoun back to back just ain't right

Let's see: Arizona regresses to the mean just one game after playing the game of their lives against us, a Butler team we beat on a neutral court is back in the final four, a Carolina team we beat handily on a neutral court is knocking on the door...man, this tournament pisses me off sometimes!

[El_Diablo]

The Duke Curse strikes AZ early.

The Wildcats shot 60% from 3-point land against us, but only manage 4-21 (19%) to lose by two to the UConnvicts.

[loldevilz]

As much as people hate Calipari, he has done a masterful coaching job this season. And you can't take that away from him (unless the NCAA does in fact take it away from him).

Josh Harrellson is a great big man. Brandon Knight is fantastic. I think they are going to beat Kansas for a championship in a rematch of the 2008 championship game.

[devildeac]

wow, if you guys had to choose one of these three teams to win it all, which would you choose?

UNC, UCONN, or Kentucky?

d) none of the above
e) meteor
f) Butler

[devildeac]

Let's see: Arizona regresses to the mean just one game after playing the game of their lives against us, a Butler team we beat on a neutral court is back in the final four, a Carolina team we beat handily on a neutral court is knocking on the door...man, this tournament pisses me off sometimes!

I think K had it right in his post-game presser on Thursday. The tourney can be cruel. This is almost a nightmare come true scenario for Duke fans and anyone believing in truth, justice and the American way (well, maybe I exaggerate a bit:rolleyes:).

[Kedsy]

I think they are going to beat Kansas for a championship in a rematch of the 2008 championship game.

Except the 2008 championship game involved Memphis.

[gofurman]

I think K had it right in his post-game presser on Thursday. The tourney can be cruel. This is almost a nightmare come true scenario for Duke fans and anyone believing in truth, justice and the American way (well, maybe I exaggerate a bit:rolleyes:).


actually I like Butler returning to the final four - makes people quit with the Duke had it so easy last year junk. Here is Butler iun the FF WITHOUT Hayward ! Think about what that says about the team we beat to win the title - this year's team (ok, less a yer of maturation) but without Hayward and a few key subs. That was a legit team we beat. I would love to see Butler win it all this year

[loldevilz]

actually I like Butler returning to the final four - makes people quit with the Duke had it so easy last year junk. Here is Butler iun the FF WITHOUT Hayward ! Think about what that says about the team we beat to win the title - this year's team (ok, less a yer of maturation) but without Hayward and a few key subs. That was a legit team we beat. I would love to see Butler win it all this year

On the other hand we crushed Butler earlier in the season and we crushed UNC. Both are alive and we are at home.

I could care less if other people thought we had a hard road. Winning the tournament is hard enough. Do you think Butler cares that they were in the easiest bracket?

[uh_no]

On the other hand we crushed Butler earlier in the season and we crushed UNC. Both are alive and we are at home.

I could care less if other people thought we had a hard road. Winning the tournament is hard enough. Do you think Butler cares that they were in the easiest bracket?

FIrst, UNC and butler are both HUGELY improved since the beginning of the season, its ridiculous how much better they are now than they were back then. Second, 'easiest bracket' is sort of a misnomer, since it really only means 'easiest road for the #1 seed should all the other top seeds in the backet win' Butler knocked off PITT for god sakes...pitt....they've had a much harder road than kansas has had....and kansas' bracket was supposed to have been 'tougher'.

Uh_no's road rankings

#1 UK (should they win) knocking off both west virginia and OSU and UNC..3 tough games, one against the 'best' team in the country
#2 Butler (taking out pitt, wisconsin, and florida) 3 tough games, none against the 'best' team in the country
#3 Uconn (taking out SDSU and Arizona) 2 tough games
#4 by a looooong shot Kansas taking out the city of richmond....twice....the road to the NIT final 4 would have been tougher

should UNC win, they move down into the 3 slot....uconn's game against SDSU > UNC's against marquette...meaning butler would have had the hardest road

[Saratoga2]

I have a question which arose from both the Butler/Florida game (2 times) and the UCONN/Arizona game.

In all these cases, the team got the ball back with about 1 minute to play either leading, tied or down by one. They proceeded to take the time down to less than 10 seconds on the clock before seriously initiating the offense and then were unsuccessful, leaving their opponents with 25 seconds or so to go for the last and winning shot.

In Butler's case, they were lucky in both regulation time and in the overtime that Florida was inept in scoring and instead of driving to the basket and taking an easy shot or foul shots, they wound up with a weak 3 point shot. I thought Butler should have gone for their shot early in the clock, saving themselves 10 seconds for the final shot. Butler did win, but it was only due to Florida's ineptness at the end.

The same was true for Arizona, however, they did get the ball back with about 10 seconds left and did put up two 3 point tries, either one of which would have been the game winner. They couldn't miss against us but were shooting poorly from 3 against UCONN.

I would be interested in who would advocate a two for one scenario in end of gaame situations like these.

[gumbomoop]

I have a question which arose from both the Butler/Florida game (2 times) and the UCONN/Arizona game.

In all these cases, the team got the ball back with about 1 minute to play either leading, tied or down by one. They proceeded to take the time down to less than 10 seconds on the clock before seriously initiating the offense and then were unsuccessful, leaving their opponents with 25 seconds or so to go for the last and winning shot.

In Butler's case, they were lucky in both regulation time and in the overtime that Florida was inept in scoring and instead of driving to the basket and taking an easy shot or foul shots, they wound up with a weak 3 point shot. I thought Butler should have gone for their shot early in the clock, saving themselves 10 seconds for the final shot. Butler did win, but it was only due to Florida's ineptness at the end.

I would be interested in who would advocate a two for one scenario in end of game situations like these.

Coach K, Dean Smith, Roy Williams, me, and many DBR posters.

Like you, I am appalled that all coaches do not have a standard game plan, with a couple of play options, in just this situation. I am anal enough to think it makes a difference - playing the percentages wise - exactly when you shoot the ball, to best-guess when you'd get the ball back after the opponent gets the ball for its possession. I tend to want my team - Duke - to shoot it with 48-50 seconds left. This makes it difficult for the opponent then to get a 2-for-1, but, should the other team take most of the 35-second clock for its shot, Duke still gets roughly 10-12 seconds for a final shot.

[Kedsy]

Coach K, Dean Smith, Roy Williams, me, and many DBR posters.

Like you, I am appalled that all coaches do not have a standard game plan, with a couple of play options, in just this situation. I am anal enough to think it makes a difference - playing the percentages wise - exactly when you shoot the ball, to best-guess when you'd get the ball back after the opponent gets the ball for its possession. I tend to want my team - Duke - to shoot it with 48-50 seconds left. This makes it difficult for the opponent then to get a 2-for-1, but, should the other team take most of the 35-second clock for its shot, Duke still gets roughly 10-12 seconds for a final shot.

I agree, in theory. In practice, in these situations there seems to always be a scrum for a rebound, which takes a fair amount of time and throws all the numbers off. Which makes the percentages a lot more complicated to figure out.

[gumbomoop]

I agree, in theory. In practice, in these situations there seems to always be a scrum for a rebound, which takes a fair amount of time and throws all the numbers off. Which makes the percentages a lot more complicated to figure out.

And I agree with you [often enough that it should trouble both of us] about the unexpected that throws the plan off. But I contend that there should be a plan, planned and practiced in practice. The key to my view is the phrase, "playing the percentages," which - here perhaps, and happily, we differ - I do not think are complicated to figure out. That is, if "figure out" means, "What should we do to try to get 2-for-1," as opposed to, "How can we be certain that our 2-for-1 strategy will work almost every time."

It would be interesting, but close to impossible, to study this 2-for-1 over an entire season, to see how often - what percentage of the time - the strategy works to get.... 2-for-1 [which is different from winning the game]. And, though I haven't thought about it, what percentage would "justify" the strategy? 75%? Surely too high. 25%? Good enough? I don't know.

[moonpie23]

Kansas getting Arizona'd by VCU right now...

hey Jay bilas.....tell me again why they don't deserve to be in....

[sporthenry]

Live by the 3? It is funny how many teams that lived by the 3 are still playing. Sure you have some flame out like Louisville but Butler, Wisconsin, Michigan, Arizona, VCU, OSU, and even Kentucky all relied on the 3 as much as Duke and had solid tournaments.

But this performance by VCU certainly shows Duke's loss to Zona wasn't that bad.

[Atlanta Duke]

The trick will be for VCU to avoid just sitting on the lead in the second half and losing it in the process, but for now I cannot believe how this tournament has opened up for whichever team comes out of what was Duke's side of the bracket.

KU fans must be in shock to see VCU pulling a Northern Iowa on the Jayhawks

[ForeverBlowingBubbles]

Still a lot of time left in the game, but I just want to point out I think VCU has been the most impressive team in the tournament:

Mar 16
vs
USC*
W59-46

Mar 18
vs
GTWN*
W74-56

Mar 20
vs
PUR*
W94-76

Mar 25
vs
FSU*
W72-71 OT

Mar 27
vs
KU*
41-27 1st Half

They do an incredible job switching while staying right up in the handlers face, and no team so far can seem to handle the variation of defenses thrown at them.

If they win, I think the test against Butler will be difficult as Butler will have more time than most teams have had to watch tape and get ready for VCU. Either way if VCU wins here, they have a very fair chance to make it to the finals (which would make them the first 11 seed ever in the finals, correct?).

Barkley seems to be arguing that Kansas just isn't playing well, but I think that's mostly due to VCU, not to Kansas. Kansas hasn't seen a team like VCU at all this season. Yes Kansas has missed free throws, but I think it's due to them being rattled beyond what they had imagined and they aren't handling the pressure well.

Anyways, they've been the most entertaining team for me to watch so far and I hope they stick around!

[Duvall]

Kansas getting Arizona'd by VCU right now...

hey Jay bilas.....tell me again why they don't deserve to be in....

VCU had a mediocre season. Two really good subsequent weeks haven't changed that.

Now, you could argue that with an absurd 68-team field there are plenty of teams in the tournament that didn't deserve to be in, and that's quite true. But that doesn't make VCU's body of work any less mediocre.

[pfrduke]

Still a lot of time left in the game, but I just want to point out I think VCU has been the most impressive team in the tournament

Sort of remarkable that they've gone through the Pac-10, Big East, Big 10, ACC, and now are 20 minutes away from Big XII. Had Florida beaten Butler, they would potentially have had 6 games in a row against each of the BCS conferences (presumably, they could face UK in the title game, although there's a whole lot of basketball still to be played).

[Devilsfan]

Hate to say it but if uncch gets lucky the final four is not that great this year.

[_Gary]

Barkley seems to be arguing that Kansas just isn't playing well, but I think that's mostly due to VCU, not to Kansas.

Really? So you are taking Kenny "I'm not biased toward UNC" Smith's side on this one? I about busted a gut listening to him tell us at the half how VCU wasn't playing out of their mind but instead were just playing how they should be. Come on, Kenny. If VCU shot 53% from 3 for the year then Kenny might have a point. But they didn't and he knows it. Look, it was going to take a combination of VCU playing above their heads and Kansas laying an egg for the upset to happen. There's no shame in saying that. But to say this isn't a shock or that VCU is somehow the better team is crazy, IMHO.

[moonpie23]

kansas turning back into kansas now.....vcu making some mistakes, not hitting their 3's

[ChrisP]

C'mon VCU! They look rattled but now there's 3 each on the Morris twins...

[moonpie23]

vcu not dead yet......remaining very tough!!!


kansas is gonna need a serious effort from everyone to pull this one out..

[kong123]

WOW!!!

[uh_no]

WOW!!!

thanks....now kansas is going to win.....

[hurleyfor3]

Wait, is vcu/kansas on a 20-minute delay or something?

[CLW]

Just a crazy tourny. Perhaps this is further proof to the argument that this was/is the worst field of teams in history.

[Cameron]

Oh God. Kansas, what are you doing? From the perspective of a Duke fan, this is like watching a house of cards topple over. North Carolina is going to win the national championship.

Toto, where the **** are you?

[RoyalBlue08]

At this point you would have to say that the odds of one of the three C's not winning the National Title is rather remote. Kansas was the last legitimate chance we had. :(

[Duvall]

This is vile. What a preposterous excuse for a sport.

[moonpie23]

now UNC has the cakewalk to the title.....

hope theirs doesn't count as much as ours didn't count....

[CDu]

It's amazing how wildly and quickly this rivalry can swing. As of November/December 2009, things looked really bleak for the rivalry from our perspective. UNC had just come off a national championship, had just landed the monster recruiting class and gotten the recruit we all wanted and we had only three guards on the roster. Then, 6 months later, things looked amazing for us. As of November 2010, we were on top of the world. Top ranking, best freshman in the country, coming off a championship, and UNC was struggling. Now, there's a very realistic possibility that UNC will have another championship 8+ days from now. And we are in the position of having to cheer for either Kentucky or UConn to keep UNC from doing it (or hoping for a bigger upset). Rough.

[ChrisP]

At this point, I would not bet against either VCU or Butler. Seriously. I am impressed.

[cspan37421]

No one(s).

Hard to interpret this. We've got Butler, UConn, VCU, and either KY or UNC.

Go Butler.

If Shaka Smart leaves, does Jeff Capel return?

[Atlanta Duke]

I assume low ratings magnet VCU-Butler will be the early game next Saturday

Kansas now the leader in the clubhouse for most disappointing loss in the tournament

[LSanders]

Assuming Calimari slimes his way to victory, we'll have the two most corrupt coaches vs. two talented upstarts. This is developing into, "The Natural."

[CDu]

This is vile. What a preposterous excuse for a sport.

This is further evidence that the NCAA tournament is not really in any way a quality measure of the best team in the NCAA. You have to be really good to win the tournament. But winning it doesn't show you were the best. You were just the team that did the best in the tournament.

VCU was one of the teams that everyone panned as undeserving of an entry. They were not one of the best 32 teams in the country. Yet they are going to the Final Four. Good for them - they've done a lot in this tournament even if they didn't really earn the right to be in the tournament originally. But it's just further evidence against the idea that the tourney proves who was the best team.

[sbroc012]

well at this point in time...given it looks like the tarholes could possibly make the final...wouldnt it be poetic justice if Butler and the tarholes played for the title and Butler won! I would be able to hold that above every UNC fans' head for ages!

[RoyalBlue08]

Kansas was 2-22 for the three point line. Kansas is too reliant on the three point shot. They need a better big man coach.

[loran16]

Guys Guys. UK should be a favorite over UNC. They've grown just as much as UNC since their matchup (in that game, they relied upon Terrence Jones entirely) and ranks as the best team left in the tourney by Pomeroy.

UNC even GETTING to the F4 isn't yet decided. Don't panic.

Also, this tourney is crazy awesome.

[Atlanta Duke]

Kansas getting Arizona'd by VCU right now...

hey Jay bilas.....tell me again why they don't deserve to be in....

Jay anticipates this question may come up:)

Final Four or out in 1st Round, Selection argument against VCU and UAB still the same. Neither w/ better credentials than CU, VT, UA, SM.

http://twitter.com/JayBilas/status/52091844854689792

[cspan37421]

This is further evidence that the NCAA tournament is not really in any way a quality measure of the best team in the NCAA. You have to be really good to win the tournament. But winning it doesn't show you were the best. You were just the team that did the best in the tournament.

VCU was one of the teams that everyone panned as undeserving of an entry. They were not one of the best 32 teams in the country. Yet they are going to the Final Four. Good for them - they've done a lot in this tournament even if they didn't really earn the right to be in the tournament originally. But it's just further evidence against the idea that the tourney proves who was the best team.

Paragraph 1: you leave yourself wide open for criticism that the ACCT should not determine the ACC Champion, because it is based on 3 games (most/all years) not 16.

Incidentally, this is why, I suspect, we have a few #1 banners hanging from years we did not win the NCAAT.

Paragraph 2: [perhaps] you mean not one of the best at large teams. [I don't recall if they were automatic qualifiers, but I infer not since there was such an argument about their inclusion]. But I agree with you here. That they were not deserving on March 13, but got in anyway, is not changed by their subsequent unlikely and remarkable performance.

BTW, I saw that there have only been two 11 seeds to make the Final Four (Geo. Mason and ... I forget). Did either of them have to beat a #1 to get there? Have any lower seeds made it - i.e., 12 or worse?

[cspan37421]

well at this point in time...given it looks like the tarholes could possibly make the final...wouldnt it be poetic justice if Butler and the tarholes played for the title and Butler won! I would be able to hold that above every UNC fans' head for ages!

That would be great - "Yeah, well we beat them when they had Hayward."

[El_Diablo]

Jay anticipates this question may come up:)

Final Four or out in 1st Round, Selection argument against VCU and UAB still the same. Neither w/ better credentials than CU, VT, UA, SM.

http://twitter.com/JayBilas/status/52091844854689792

I'll give Jay credit: he does stick to his guns.

Even when it makes him look like a fool.

[Atlanta Duke]

This is further evidence that the NCAA tournament is not really in any way a quality measure of the best team in the NCAA. You have to be really good to win the tournament. But winning it doesn't show you were the best. You were just the team that did the best in the tournament.

VCU was one of the teams that everyone panned as undeserving of an entry. They were not one of the best 32 teams in the country. Yet they are going to the Final Four. Good for them - they've done a lot in this tournament even if they didn't really earn the right to be in the tournament originally. But it's just further evidence against the idea that the tourney proves who was the best team.

Ask anyone who was the best team in 1990-91 and the honest answer is UNLV. Ask anyone who was the best team in 2009-10 and I doubt many will respond Duke. I for one am not contending Duke should take down those banners

Three of the last 6 Super Bowl champions (2005 Steelers/2007 Giants/2010 Packers) have been the #6 seed and several baseball teams have won as wildcards

That is how a playoff system works

[sbroc012]

That would be great - "Yeah, well we beat them when they had Hayward."

more so, just the fact we beat in the championship last year and in a rematch this year...at this point that would be the best result possible...of course im not against the tarholes losing sooner

[ForeverBlowingBubbles]

Really? So you are taking Kenny "I'm not biased toward UNC" Smith's side on this one? I about busted a gut listening to him tell us at the half how VCU wasn't playing out of their mind but instead were just playing how they should be. Come on, Kenny. If VCU shot 53% from 3 for the year then Kenny might have a point. But they didn't and he knows it. Look, it was going to take a combination of VCU playing above their heads and Kansas laying an egg for the upset to happen. There's no shame in saying that. But to say this isn't a shock or that VCU is somehow the better team is crazy, IMHO.

Really? It's crazy? VCU's path to this game was 10x harder than that of Kansas. They beat USC handily, absolutely crushed Purdue and Georgetown, beat a team that beat Duke couldn't in Florida State, and knocked off #1 Kansas. VCU is a good team playing great basketball. They were 48% from behind the arc today and are 36.67 percent as a team overall. Rounded up, VCU knocked down three more 3's then their average would suggest. Which mind you they have done several times this season (and they also have shot below their average... its how you get to an average). VCU wasn't hitting ugly shots, Kansas did a poor job defending the arc.

Kansas didn't play great basketball partly if not mostly because VCU did an outstanding job defending. VCU was knocking shots down today, but not in any kind of godly fashion. They were the better team, they have been for the last 2 weeks, this wasn't a 1 game fluke of them playing 'above their heads' and they deserve a helluva lot more respect than your giving them.

[CDu]

Paragraph 1: you leave yourself wide open for criticism that the ACCT should not determine the ACC Champion, because it is based on 3 games (most/all years) not 16.

Incidentally, this is why, I suspect, we have a few #1 banners hanging from years we did not win the NCAAT.

I leave myself open to that "criticism" because I agree with it. The ACC (and NCAA) tournaments are fun, but they are not proof of who the best team in the conference (or country). The tournament champion can certainly be the best team, but the tournament is rarely proof.


Paragraph 2: [perhaps] you mean not one of the best at large teams. [I don't recall if they were automatic qualifiers, but I infer not since there was such an argument about their inclusion]. But I agree with you here. That they were not deserving on March 13, but got in anyway, is not changed by their subsequent unlikely and remarkable performance.

BTW, I saw that there have only been two 11 seeds to make the Final Four (Geo. Mason and ... I forget). Did either of them have to beat a #1 to get there? Have any lower seeds made it - i.e., 12 or worse?

Yes, I did mean one of the top at-large teams (I should have said 37).

George Mason beat UConn (the #1) to make it. LSU (1986) was the other #11 seed to make it. I don't know if they beat a #1 or not.

[Eternal Outlaw]

Paragraph 1: you leave yourself wide open for criticism that the ACCT should not determine the ACC Champion, because it is based on 3 games (most/all years) not 16.

Incidentally, this is why, I suspect, we have a few #1 banners hanging from years we did not win the NCAAT.

Paragraph 2: you mean not one of the best at large teams. But I agree with you here. That they were not deserving on March 13, but got in anyway, is not changed by their subsequent unlikely and remarkable performance.

BTW, I saw that there have only been two 11 seeds to make the Final Four (Geo. Mason and ... I forget). Did either of them have to beat a #1 to get there? Have any lower seeds made it - i.e., 12 or worse?

George Mason had to beat that loaded UConn team to make the Final Four that was a 1 seed. They also beat 7 seed Wichita State, 3 seed UNC and 6 seed Michigan State. 11 seed LSU in 86 beat 1 seed Kentucky, 2 seed Georgia Tech, 3 seed Memphis State, and 6 seed Purdue.

[dukelifer]

It's amazing how wildly and quickly this rivalry can swing. As of November/December 2009, things looked really bleak for the rivalry from our perspective. UNC had just come off a national championship, had just landed the monster recruiting class and gotten the recruit we all wanted and we had only three guards on the roster. Then, 6 months later, things looked amazing for us. As of November 2010, we were on top of the world. Top ranking, best freshman in the country, coming off a championship, and UNC was struggling. Now, there's a very realistic possibility that UNC will have another championship 8+ days from now. And we are in the position of having to cheer for either Kentucky or UConn to keep UNC from doing it (or hoping for a bigger upset). Rough.

One thing people keep forgetting about last year is that UNC lost a key player from their squad mid season and were never the same. UNC was not as bad and Duke was not as good as Duke fans had imagined them to be. UNC this year is better than last year- but not great- but still they could easily win it all as they are the best seed remaining. Duke was not the best team in the country last year but good enough to win it all- so is UNC, KY- UConn and Butler. If VCU wins it all- I have no explanation. This tourney can weed the best out- pressure, expectations and a bad night can knock out even a great team on any given night. UNC has been the best in the country many years and did not win it all- maybe this year they will win when not being the best. I would prefer not to see it- but I can understand if they do.

[sporthenry]

Really? It's crazy? VCU's path to this game was 10x harder than that of Kansas. They beat USC handily, absolutely crushed Purdue and Georgetown, beat a team that beat Duke couldn't in Florida State, and knocked off #1 Kansas. VCU is a good team playing great basketball. They were 48% from behind the arc today and are 36.67 percent as a team overall. Rounded up, VCU knocked down three more 3's then their average would suggest. Which mind you they have done several times this season (and they also have shot below their average... its how you get to an average). VCU wasn't hitting ugly shots, Kansas did a poor job defending the arc.

Kansas didn't play great basketball partly if not mostly because VCU did an outstanding job defending. VCU was knocking shots down today, but not in any kind of godly fashion. They were the better team, they have been for the last 2 weeks, this wasn't a 1 game fluke of them playing 'above their heads' and they deserve a helluva lot more respect than your giving them.

Great job defending the FT line? Where KU left 13 points on the floor? KU choked as much as VCU played well. This is the trend set by one and dones, teams falling apart. Although its weird to see Duke or KU fall apart since they were mostly led by older guys but these best teams have look rattled for most of this tournament.

VCU was the better team today but they are not better than KU. If VCU shoots 40% from 3 above their average and KU shoots 20% from 3 below their average, KU wins. Say what you want about VCU's defense and offense but they just got hot at the right time.

[anon]

This is further evidence that the NCAA tournament is not really in any way a quality measure of the best team in the NCAA. You have to be really good to win the tournament. But winning it doesn't show you were the best. You were just the team that did the best in the tournament.

VCU was one of the teams that everyone panned as undeserving of an entry. They were not one of the best 32 teams in the country. Yet they are going to the Final Four. Good for them - they've done a lot in this tournament even if they didn't really earn the right to be in the tournament originally. But it's just further evidence against the idea that the tourney proves who was the best team.

But what would do better?

[Saratoga2]

VCU has some size, is quick and aggressive, has two point guards and has some shooters. They play a relentless style which seems to tire out and rattle the other team. They are very well coached and deserve to be where they are. Any other point about the best team somehow not being identified by the tournament is double think.

Actually, VCU reminds me of Arizona in a lot of ways. Arizona destroyed Duke and should have beated UCONN to advance. VCU plays in a similar way except at a faster and pace. Did you see Marquis Morris bent over trying to catch his breath near the end of the game?

We will see two excellent coaches matching up when Butler and VCU collide.

[J4Kop99]

VCU has some size, is quick and aggressive, has two point guards and has some shooters. They play a relentless style which seems to tire out and rattle the other team. They are very well coached and deserve to be where they are. Any other point about the best team somehow not being identified by the tournament is double think.

Actually, VCU reminds me of Arizona in a lot of ways. Arizona destroyed Duke and should have beated UCONN to advance. VCU plays in a similar way except at a faster and pace. Did you see Marquis Morris bent over trying to catch his breath near the end of the game?

We will see two excellent coaches matching up when Butler and VCU collide.

Why should Arizona have beaten Uconn?

[sporthenry]

Why should Arizona have beaten Uconn?

Well naturally b/c they beat Duke.

[SMO]

Kansas was 2-22 for the three point line. Kansas is too reliant on the three point shot. They need a better big man coach.

They needed a Lance Thomas out there today. Or a Brian Zoubek. Morningstar played too many minutes in a game 4 weeks ago and was still tired. They need a true point guard. Bill Self can't recruit athletic guys.

At least Kansas State and Texas got knocked out first.

[fisheyes]

I'll give Jay credit: he does stick to his guns.

Even when it makes him look like a fool.

or a lawyer ;)

[fisheyes]

Mine were busted long ago but there are 2 folks on top of the ESPN leader board who have the first 3 teams to get to the FF. One has KY and the other has UNC as their final team. Unbelievable.

[diveonthefloor]

Henson with 3 fouls early.

Roy is crapping his pants.

[anon]

Mine were busted long ago but there are 2 folks on top of the ESPN leader board who have the first 3 teams to get to the FF. One has KY and the other has UNC as their final team. Unbelievable.

Yes. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_monkey_theorem.

[diveonthefloor]

I am rooting for UK about as hard as I root for any team to beat UNC, and with extra gusto given the regional final.

I need a shower.

[tbyers11]

I'll give Jay credit: he does stick to his guns.

Even when it makes him look like a fool.

How does it make Jay look like a fool? Based on the selection criteria that the committee had outlined there were 3 or 4 teams with better resumes than VCU 2 weeks ago on Selection Sunday. Totally independent of the fact that VCU was good enough to make this amazing tourney run.

[tbyers11]

I am rooting for UK about as hard as I root for any team to beat UNC, and with extra gusto given the regional final.

I need a shower.

I just texted the same thing to my best friend from my time at Duke. Blech.

[Wander]

How does it make Jay look like a fool? Based on the selection criteria that the committee had outlined there were 3 or 4 teams with better resumes than VCU 2 weeks ago on Selection Sunday. Totally independent of the fact that VCU was good enough to make this amazing tourney run.

Jay does look like a fool. He was right that there were teams with better resumes, and he's right that tournament results can't retroactively be used to judge selection or seeding, but the gap was never anywhere near the margin that he was making it out to be, and he let his tone get unprofessional. Actually the entire tone on ESPN was embarrassing, and the fact that they complained about UAB and VCU and not Penn State or USC is IMO pretty telling.

[stillcrazie]

I cannot bring myself to watch the UNC/KY game for more than a minute because I am afraid that I give UNC good luck when I turn it on. I'd feel a lot better if KY were up by double digits.

[ForeverBlowingBubbles]

Great job defending the FT line? Where KU left 13 points on the floor? KU choked as much as VCU played well. This is the trend set by one and dones, teams falling apart. Although its weird to see Duke or KU fall apart since they were mostly led by older guys but these best teams have look rattled for most of this tournament.

VCU was the better team today but they are not better than KU. If VCU shoots 40% from 3 above their average and KU shoots 20% from 3 below their average, KU wins. Say what you want about VCU's defense and offense but they just got hot at the right time.

Ok so KU shoots their average at the stripe which means they hit about 19 instead of 15, they still lose. You miss free throws when you're at the line, under pressure, losing to a team your supposed to be on another plane than, and you find that suddenly your not necessarily confident in yourself or your team. That's a team that doesn't show poise under pressure and a team that loses in a one and done tournament.

KU probably would have won if they went to where they had the advantage - on the inside with the Morris brothers and with Taylor slashing at will.

If VCU shot 40% above their 3 avg and KU shoots just 20% below, VCU still wins btw.

[anon]

I cannot bring myself to watch the UNC/KY game for more than a minute because I am afraid that I give UNC good luck when I turn it on. I'd feel a lot better if KY were up by double digits.

Ugh. Did you just turn it on again?

Kentucky just has to keep hitting those clutch threes. That never fails, right?