NCAA parity

[dukegirl]

Not complaining, but there have been no real upsets in Duke's bracket, unlike all other brackets. Which begs the question, what really constitutes an upset anymore? Is it mostly psychological in an NCAA of more parity than we acknowledge? :confused:

[uh_no]

Not complaining, but there have been no real upsets in Duke's bracket, unlike all other brackets. Which begs the question, what really constitutes an upset anymore? Is it mostly psychological in an NCAA of more parity than we acknowledge? :confused:

upset = when a lower seeded team beats a higher seeded teams....

not sure what the question is here....

[Faustus]

I'm just looking at the brackets here, and Kansas can make the National Championship game by winning the following -
Boston U
Illinois
Richmond
VCU (alternatively FSU)
maybe BYU (I'm thinking more likely Wisconsin, but
also potentially Butler or UFla)

They could make the final game and yet play but a single team previously from a Major Power Conference. Has that ever happened before since the NCAAs stopped remaining "regional" about 40 years ago?

Duke's draw has become much more difficult - after Hampton and Michigan, there is:
Pac-10 champ. Arizona
then either Big East tournament champ UConn or
Top Ten and conference champ SDSU
And THEN likely Ohio State -

Just to get to the same spot as Kansas.

But that's the way it goes. Should be fun.

P.S. Not to complain or anything - all teams benefit from upsets elsewhere. It's not KU's fault that Louisville, Georgetown, Purdue and Pitt fizzled out.

[dukegirl]

upset = when a lower seeded team beats a higher seeded teams....

not sure what the question is here....

Well, duh, I'm not talking about the literal definition...but one of the broadcasters made an interesting comment that seeding might be more of a psychological dynamic, rather than a real differential in the teams' head-to-head competitiveness.

[ACniner]

upset = when a lower seeded team beats a higher seeded teams....

not sure what the question is here....

I believe what the OP is getting at is the lower seeded teams aren't as bad as their seeding indicates. I am in the Jay Bilas camp in regards to this parity the talking heads always bring up. The gap is still wide with the big boys and the mid majors. Very wide.

[uh_no]

I believe what the OP is getting at is the lower seeded teams aren't as bad as their seeding indicates. I am in the Jay Bilas camp in regards to this parity the talking heads always bring up. The gap is still wide with the big boys and the mid majors. Very wide.

I think this round will prove it
SDSU runs into their first big boy of the season
richmond beat a seemingly overseeded vandy and now gets kansas
vcu knocks off two teams with injury issues and now runs into florida state
byu runs into their first big boy and gets florida (albeit over seeded...and in my opinion bad)

I think the only of these teams that has a shot is byu....

butler has proven themselves pretty well, but the other 4 guys are there after not having a game against good power conference teams

[ajgoodfella7]

I think this round will prove it
SDSU runs into their first big boy of the season
richmond beat a seemingly overseeded vandy and now gets kansas
vcu knocks off two teams with injury issues and now runs into florida state
byu runs into their first big boy and gets florida (albeit over seeded...and in my opinion bad)

I think the only of these teams that has a shot is byu....

butler has proven themselves pretty well, but the other 4 guys are there after not having a game against good power conference teams

In defense of the OP, I don't think it would shock me if any of those teams win or lose. Ten years ago I would probably not feel that way.

[uh_no]

In defense of the OP, I don't think it would shock me if any of those teams win or lose. Ten years ago I would probably not feel that way.

oh, i agree

I just was pointing out that 4/5 mid majors in the sweet 16 really had easy roads to get there and this round will prove whether they are for real or not

[ACniner]

I think this round will prove it
SDSU runs into their first big boy of the season
richmond beat a seemingly overseeded vandy and now gets kansas
vcu knocks off two teams with injury issues and now runs into florida state
byu runs into their first big boy and gets florida (albeit over seeded...and in my opinion bad)

I think the only of these teams that has a shot is byu....

butler has proven themselves pretty well, but the other 4 guys are there after not having a game against good power conference teams

I agree totally. It drives me nuts when I see and hear the word parity from these "experts". Even if they don't want to break down the data of past tournament performances, go to a scouting service website and see what schools the Kyrie Irvings of the world have on their radar. Not saying a team like 2010 Butler is not a good one, but there aren't 100 Butler's in college basketball catching the power conferences in talent and tournament performance.

[ajgoodfella7]

I agree totally. It drives me nuts when I see and hear the word parity from these "experts". Even if they don't want to break down the data of past tournament performances, go to a scouting service website and see what schools the Kyrie Irvings of the world have on their radar. Not saying a team like 2010 Butler is not a good one, but there aren't 100 Butler's in college basketball catching the power conferences in talent and tournament performance.

I think there is definitely more parity than there was years ago because of the experience versus talent factor. When speaking of NCAA tournament teams as a whole, I think the following can be said: USUALLY, the less experienced teams are the more talented teams, and the more experienced teams are less talented. Every so often, you get a perfect mix of both (a la UNC 08'-09'), and they are the teams that are outright favorites throughout an entire season. The bottom line is that, for the most part, the "Kyrie Irvings" are not sticking around anymore to create these great teams of the past. And so the talent level disparity between the power conference teams and the mid-major teams is less magnified. Obviously there is not much parity between a 1-seed and a 16-seed, but I think the field really gets muddy when you get down around the 5 or 6 seeds.

[tommy]

oh, i agree

I just was pointing out that 4/5 mid majors in the sweet 16 really had easy roads to get there and this round will prove whether they are for real or not

So which mid-major had an easy road exactly?

Butler, taking out a #1 seed? Or VCU, beating both Georgetown and Purdue?

[uh_no]

So which mid-major had an easy road exactly?

Butler, taking out a #1 seed? Or VCU, beating both Georgetown and Purdue?

http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?24958-NCAA-parity&p=490563#post490563

I think I explained it quite clearly here

both georgetown and purdue had serious injury issues
byu hasn't played a bcs team
sdsu hasn't played a bcs team
despite being a bcs team, vanderbilt isn't exactly top top....so if you want to say richmond can play with the big boys, fine

butler was clearly the one mid major who has knocked off a powerhouse

[burns15]

the more I watch games and see teams, especially lower-seeded teams, throw away chances at the end of games because of missed free throws and boxouts, dumb decisions on offense, and lazy defense, the more I am convinced that we are not experiencing parity but rather mediocrity in the college game

the fact that most of these kids do not understand what to do in end game situations is a testament to how poor their coaching has been throughout their careers... maybe I am just spoiled by the best with K

[Saratoga2]

the more I watch games and see teams, especially lower-seeded teams, throw away chances at the end of games because of missed free throws and boxouts, dumb decisions on offense, and lazy defense, the more I am convinced that we are not experiencing parity but rather mediocrity in the college game

the fact that most of these kids do not understand what to do in end game situations is a testament to how poor their coaching has been throughout their careers... maybe I am just spoiled by the best with K

Was our end of game experience so much better?

[ForkFondler]

I think there is a lot of parity in the 5-12 range, so I wouldn't call any middle bracket win on the first day an upset. Morehead over Louisville was an upset, and Butler over Pitt was an upset, but that's about it. FSU over Notre Dame, maybe, but the Seminoles were way underseeded with Singleton back.

ETA: VCU over Purdue, also.

[Spret42]

the more I watch games and see teams, especially lower-seeded teams, throw away chances at the end of games because of missed free throws and boxouts, dumb decisions on offense, and lazy defense, the more I am convinced that we are not experiencing parity but rather mediocrity in the college game



Parity is usually part and parcel with mediocrity almost everywhere in life. If everything is equal not very much is special.

The basketball product in college basketball is bordering on poor. Yes, they are playing with huge heart and maximum effort; but at the end of the day, they're not very good at basketball.

[NSDukeFan]

I think there is a lot of parity in the 5-12 range, so I wouldn't call any middle bracket win on the first day an upset. Morehead over Louisville was an upset, and Butler over Pitt was an upset, but that's about it. FSU over Notre Dame, maybe, but the Seminoles were way underseeded with Singleton back.

ETA: VCU over Purdue, also.

I am not commenting on your post one way or the other, and didn't see the game, but noticed that Singleton only played 10 minutes vs. Notre Dame, so I don't know that he made enough of an impact for FSU to be under-seeded with him back.

[Indoor66]

Was our end of game experience so much better?

Check the final score. It isn't how, it's how many. There are no style points. (Cliche to follow.)

[COYS]

I think there is a lot of parity in the 5-12 range, so I wouldn't call any middle bracket win on the first day an upset. Morehead over Louisville was an upset, and Butler over Pitt was an upset, but that's about it. FSU over Notre Dame, maybe, but the Seminoles were way underseeded with Singleton back.

ETA: VCU over Purdue, also.

Kenpom might agree with you a little bit, with the caveat that Notre Dame was also over-seeded, which probably aids in the perception of a big upset when, in reality, the teams were probably close to evenly matched. The Irish fit the profile of a 4 seed, coming in at 15 in Pomeroy, while FSU was down at 27th (making them more like a 7 seed).

However, FSU also represented a unique and, ultimately, devastating matchup for a team like Notre Dame. The Irish's entire game is based on a killer offense that relies on excellent jump shooting. They don't force turnovers on defense, don't rebound particularly well, don't have overwhelming size in the post (although their guards are relatively large), don't really play much defense and have their shots blocked 10% of the time. They came up against an FSU team that is first in defense, first in opposing eFG% (a staggering 42%!) 3rd in blocked shots, 10th in opposing 3p% and 19th in steals. FSU's length and shot blocking ability turned Notre Dame's offense into the ground and they had nothing to fall back on. In addition, FSU's offense shot uncharacteristically well from 3, which turned what probably would have been a nail-biter into a near blowout. I think Notre Dame's defense would have kept them from reaching the Final Four, but they got supremely unlucky in their matchup against a team that is pretty much perfectly designed to negate their entire offense.

[sagegrouse]

I am not commenting on your post one way or the other, and didn't see the game, but noticed that Singleton only played 10 minutes vs. Notre Dame, so I don't know that he made enough of an impact for FSU to be under-seeded with him back.

I think Leonard Hamilton kept Singleton on the bench because FSU was so far ahead. He could have played more if necessary. Wasn't that the report from the sideline?

I expect Singleton will see a lot more action against VCU and potentially Kansas/Richmond.

sagegrouse