Grant Hill's Response to Jalen Rose

[MHNOLADevil]

Snap! Grant, once again, rules with his brilliant response. (http://thequad.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/03/16/grant-hills-response-to-jalen-rose/)

[NashvilleDevil]

Snap! Grant, once again, rules with his brilliant response. (http://thequad.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/03/16/grant-hills-response-to-jalen-rose/)

Grant just tweeted that the NY Times edited his response and that his full response will be on granthill.com soon.

[loldevilz]

Grant Hill with...perspective!!!

[SuperTurkey]

Spoiler alert!

The end is my favorite part:


I am proud of my family. I am proud of my Duke championships and all my Duke teammates. And, I am proud I never lost a game against the Fab Five.

Grant Henry Hill
Phoenix Suns
Duke ‘94

[NashvilleDevil]

Super Turkey beat me to it.

[SuperTurkey]

Super Turkey beat me to it.

Yeah, and it looks like Snork beat me to it in the original Fab Five thread.

[duke79]

Snap! Grant, once again, rules with his brilliant response. (http://thequad.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/03/16/grant-hills-response-to-jalen-rose/)

Yes, a very well written piece by Grant.

[Mike Corey]

My favorite part:


I caution [the Fab Five] to avoid stereotyping me and others they do not know in much the same way so many people stereotyped them back then for their appearance and swagger."

[MHNOLADevil]

The NY Times had to edit some. Grant just posted this full unedited response (http://http://granthill.com/hilltop/hilltop/grants-unedited-response-to-the-fab-fives-documentary) on his website.

[94duke]

The NY Times had to edit some. Grant just posted this full unedited response (http://http://granthill.com/hilltop/hilltop/grants-unedited-response-to-the-fab-fives-documentary) on his website.

fixed link:
http://granthill.com/hilltop/hilltop/grants-unedited-response-to-the-fab-fives-documentary

[Rudy]

Excellent. One of my favorite Grant Hill stories was his recruitment trip to John Thompson's Georgetown. Grant was local star in northern Virginia, so even the Georgetown staff should have known that his mom was a Wellesley grad and his dad, quite a bit more famous then as a pro football star for Dallas and then the Redskins. He may have been the only first round pro draft pick out of Yale.

With that factual setting, Grant described a recruiting meeting with Thompson and the team's academic adviser in a later interview in Esquire:
[Hill] told Esquire that when he visited Georgetown, "Coach [John] Thompson was there, and Miss Mary Fenlon, Georgetown's academic adviser. We're sitting in a room and Miss Fenlon hands me a book and says, `Read this.' I was a little startled, but I took the book and started reading to myself. Then she says, `I meant, read out loud.' So I started reading out loud. After a page, she stops me and says, `Now, tell me what you've read.'" Deeply--and justifiably--offended, Hill left the room vowing never to attend Georgetown.

http://www.answers.com/topic/grant-hill-1

[dyedwab]

What a response. Makes me proud to have shared the same campus with him for just a little while.

[CLW]

Grant Hill = "Winning!" as Sheen would say.

[4decadedukie]

The reasons Grant Hill should take great, justifiable pride (not arrogance) in himself, his family and his heritage -- and that Dukies should feel immense pride in him -- are literally too numerous to count. However, his just-publishes New York Times letter certainly ranks among them. Passionate in its beliefs (but not boastful), eloquent in its language, and lucid, concise, civil, unequivocal, entirely logical in its agreements, this superb response provides current, specific and demonstrable differences between Dukies and Michigan’s “Fab Five.”

Please read this letter, and then join me in extolling Grant.

[DevilHorns]

What a polished piece. Grant makes me proud to have had the privilege of a Duke education.

I hope this article has as much impact as Jalen Rose's pathetic commentary.

[MHNOLADevil]

To quote a friend, "A lesson in how to take the high road without giving up an inch. Really well done."

[DukieInKansas]

My favorite comment after the NYT version - from Chris at 2:26:

"A predictably well-put response by one of the best guys in the NBA. That, kids, is why you go to college."

[NashvilleDevil]

What a polished piece. Grant makes me proud to have had the privilege of a Duke education.

I hope this article has as much impact as Jalen Rose's pathetic commentary.

Been reading some responses on twitter and you know it is a good piece because all they are talking about is the usage of past and present tense and not what Grant wrote.

[MHNOLADevil]

Tweet from Jay Williams: Going to give my thoughts on the FAB 5 documentary & Grant Hill's article today at 3:15 on the Scott Van Pelt show on ESPN.

[wilson]

Excellent. One of my favorite Grant Hill stories was his recruitment trip to John Thompson's Georgetown. Grant was local star in northern Virginia, so even the Georgetown staff should have known that his mom was a Wellesley grad and his dad, quite a bit more famous then as a pro football star for Dallas and then the Redskins. He may have been the only first round pro draft pick out of Yale.

With that factual setting, Grant described a recruiting meeting with Thompson and the team's academic adviser in a later interview in Esquire:
[Hill] told Esquire that when he visited Georgetown, "Coach [John] Thompson was there, and Miss Mary Fenlon, Georgetown's academic adviser. We're sitting in a room and Miss Fenlon hands me a book and says, `Read this.' I was a little startled, but I took the book and started reading to myself. Then she says, `I meant, read out loud.' So I started reading out loud. After a page, she stops me and says, `Now, tell me what you've read.'" Deeply--and justifiably--offended, Hill left the room vowing never to attend Georgetown. Really cool story; I had never heard that.
A quibble with the totality of that answers.com article (which is really apropos of nothing)...It says about Grant's early career at Duke:

Playing as a freshman in the shadow of such notables as Bobby Hurley and Christian Laettner, Hill nonetheless made a great contribution to the team. The Blue Devils won the 1991 National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA) national championship by beating the University of Kansas. The final score in that game was a miraculous slam by Hill, made off an erratic pass by Hurley.The errant pass and emphatic slam made for the first score of the game, not the final one.

[devildeac]

Outstanding response, Mr. Hill, just outstanding.

(And, as an additional reminder of Grant's humility, don't forget that "he poured the beer, too";))

[texas]

well played mr grant hill

[Rudy]

Really cool story; I had never heard that.
A quibble with the totality of that answers.com article (which is really apropos of nothing)...It says about Grant's early career at Duke:
The errant pass and emphatic slam made for the first score of the game, not the final one.
I remembered the story, maybe from the original Esquire article, and just googled for a source. Answer.com was the first I found. I had forgotten that Thompson was present when this absurd request to prove Grant could read was made.

[wilson]

I remembered the story, maybe from the original Esquire article, and just googled for a source. Answer.com was the first I found. I had forgotten that Thompson was present when this absurd request to prove Grant could read was made.No aspersions meant on your information collection; again, I had never heard that anecdote and found it very interesting.
Just, you know, any chance to be a snooty Dukie and correct mistakes.;)

[Chard]

What a well written piece.

[Jeff0r3]

That was a great read.. I wish we could have gotten that in an interview. I am always amused when people that are quiet and respectful, are mistaken as being weak. I always love it when a response like this occurs.. Great job Grant Hill! This probably shows why Grant attended Duke and Jalen didn't. Its about class.. We see who has it! You'd think Jalen would have put into perspective that is how he felt back then. But he seemed to still have that same mentality.. Funny how don't ever change...

[TheMainEvent]

Admittedly, I am new to this forum, but not the Duke community. Ever since I was little, Grant Hill has embodied courage, sportsmanship and success for me. I had a poster of him on the back of my bedroom door for my entire childhood. Watching the Fab Five rip Duke apart was tough to watch, but hearing what Jalen had to say about Grant was particularly troubling. To look at someone and say "That's not me. That's not what I want to be" is one thing, but to ridicule them for what they've accomplished and how they carry themselves is unacceptable.

I do respect Jalen for apologizing to Grant, albeit via Twitter. It's too bad he didn't do so in the documentary.

I hope we get the opportunity to play Michigan in the 2nd round and beat them, just like old times.

[OldPhiKap]

Yet another reminder of why I love Grant. Thoughtful, powerful, on the money.

I'm proud that we're both part of the same "Duke family"

[gus]

Really cool story; I had never heard that.
A quibble with the totality of that answers.com article (which is really apropos of nothing)...It says about Grant's early career at Duke:
The errant pass and emphatic slam made for the first score of the game, not the final one.

That was to make the score 7-1.

here, in all its glory...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bv1bXGEzEfQ

[BD80]

The danger in listing examples, particularly from a limited universe, is the attention drawn to those not listed. Why didn't he include Carlos Boozer or Elton Brand, probably two of the best known Duke graduates? I think he should have added Luol Deng - I think opposing and escaping political tyranny trumps growing up in Detroit on the hardship scale.

[phaedrus]

I did not watch the Fab 5 documentary, but some of the comments following the NY Times article mention that Jalen's remarks from the documentary were intended to relate his feelings from his freshman year at Michigan, not his current feelings about Duke and Grant. I hope this is true, as I've always found Jalen to be an astute basketball analyst and generally intelligent person. Does anyone who watched the documentary have any insight?

[gus]

The danger in listing examples, particularly from a limited universe, is the attention drawn to those not listed. Why didn't he include Carlos Boozer or Elton Brand, probably two of the best known Duke graduates? I think he should have added Luol Deng - I think opposing and escaping political tyranny trumps growing up in Detroit on the hardship scale.

If he included every black player at duke, the column would have been much longer.

One of the commentors asked if he excluded Boozer, Maggette and Brand because they hadn't graduated. Didn't Boozer graduate?

[gus]

I did not watch the Fab 5 documentary, but some of the comments following the NY Times article mention that Jalen's remarks from the documentary were intended to relate his feelings from his freshman year at Michigan, not his current feelings about Duke and Grant. I hope this is true, as I've always found Jalen to be an astute basketball analyst and generally intelligent person. Does anyone who watched the documentary have any insight?

I have only seen Rose's comments on ESPN. He doesn't back off the statement, going as far as saying Coach K's never been in Detroit. He also K still would only recruit Rose's kids (and not someone like him), implying it's because Rose's kids are being brought up in a wealthy family.

[mr. synellinden]

I did not watch the Fab 5 documentary, but some of the comments following the NY Times article mention that Jalen's remarks from the documentary were intended to relate his feelings from his freshman year at Michigan, not his current feelings about Duke and Grant. I hope this is true, as I've always found Jalen to be an astute basketball analyst and generally intelligent person. Does anyone who watched the documentary have any insight?

Those were his comments in the film, but he appeared on ESPN the following day (Monday) along with Jimmy King and both stated they still felt the same way about Duke and neither backed away from the Uncle Tom/I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this. comments or the criticism of Grant Hill.

[wilson]

I hope we get the opportunity to play Michigan in the 2nd round and beat them, just like old times.I hadn't even thought of this. You can bet dollars to doughnuts that ESPN is praying for this storyline.

[cspan37421]

In the comments after Grant's eloquent letter, many try to take up for Rose and claim that those were only his feelings as a late teen, and not his feelings today. As a self-produced documentary, it may have appeared that way. In subsequent days, however, as some have noted, it's not necessarily the case. Having an opportunity to deny he still felt that way, Rose (and King) danced around the question and implied he still did.

If you sort the reader's comments by recommendation, many of the "Rose only meant it then, Hill is thin-skinned and misguided" crowd are among the more frequently recommended responses. I would encourage registered users of the NYT to recommend those comments which point out the inconvenient fact mentioned above.

[Class of '94]

I hadn't even thought of this. You can bet dollars to doughnuts that ESPN is praying for this storyline.

Don't forget CBS and Turner as well.

The funny thing is that up here in Detroit, many of the sports talk hosts that are Michigan alums are worried about a potential matchup of Michigan with Duke and fearing that Duke will crush Michigan because of all the stuff that Jalen and the Fab 5 doc have said about Duke.

[burns15]

Don't forget CBS and Turner as well.

The funny thing is that up here in Detroit, many of the sports talk hosts that are Michigan alums are worried about a potential matchup of Michigan with Duke and fearing that Duke will crush Michigan because of all the stuff that Jalen and the Fab 5 doc have said about Duke.

I dont think K would run up the score because none of the people currently involved with the Wolverines program have anything to do with the Fab Five and that era

[cspan37421]

Don't forget CBS and Turner as well.

The funny thing is that up here in Detroit, many of the sports talk hosts that are Michigan alums are worried about a potential matchup of Michigan with Duke and fearing that Duke will crush Michigan because of all the stuff that Jalen and the Fab 5 doc have said about Duke.

If we'd be fortunate enough to do so, it would be richly deserved. After all, who stabbed who in the back? From here, it looked like this sequence:

Fab 5 ==>> UM ==>> Amaker.

[Tjenkins]

The funny thing is that up here in Detroit, many of the sports talk hosts that are Michigan alums are worried about a potential matchup of Michigan with Duke and fearing that Duke will crush Michigan because of all the stuff that Jalen and the Fab 5 doc have said about Duke.
Not to mention Steve Fisher, Duke could play his SD State team in the regional final. I'm sure CBS/Turner would also play up that angle. It would be nice to see them knock out Michigan and Fisher in the same region.

[swood1000]

Was curious as to just what changes the NYT made to Grant's piece. Attached is a comparison from Word. (Had to split it into two files or I couldn't upload it.)

Words with a line through them were deleted for the NYT. Words underlined were added.
1901
1902

[-bdbd]

I am just so proud to have attended the same school as that gentleman.

[Sir Stealth]

This is a great and powerful response. While it does a great job at defending black players who attend Duke and pointing out the complete inappropriateness of the "Uncle Tom" label, I am still concerned that it does not fully address what Rose, King, and Webber have reiterated since the documentary, which is their belief that Duke will not recruit players who do not come from well-off, stable family backgrounds.

When asked by Skip Bayless, Rose said that he did not begrudge black players such as Hill and Elton Brand attending Duke or believe that it made them less black, but he dug in on the assertion that Coach K will not recruit players from underprivileged backgrounds, using phrases such as "I've never seen Coach K in Detroit." Both Rose and King stated that hearing Duke defenders give examples of players who did not come from affluent backgrounds or two-parent families actually proved their point by "having to say it," effectively eliminating any rebuttal by delegitimizing attempts to correct their misperceptions with actual evidence.

In addition to its many fine points, I wish that Grant Hill's piece also rejected this notion and made clear that a choice between being underprivileged, on the one hand, and exhibiting a willingness to buy into education, the team, and the rules, on the other, is a completely false choice. The history of the Fab 5 and it's trashtalking, contempt for the rules, and lack of respect for its coaching staff demonstrates the reasons why Jalen Rose was not a fit for Duke, not his challenging background.

These qualities, which do in fact make a player a poor fit for Duke, do not in any way enhance one's "blackness" or make one some sort of freedom fighter against the white elite, as Chris Webber seems to assert in his blog posts. Winning, education, and personal advancement do a lot more.

I am concerned that while Grant's piece will earn praise from people who already know this to be true, the Duke critics who do not personally know Coach K as a person will just say that it misses the point - that Coach K will not recruit poor inner city black kids. The worst case scenario is that this becomes or has become a self-fulfilling prophecy, where talented, intelligent, kids from similar backgrounds will not come to Duke, even when recruited, because of this perception. The more Duke players that loudly stand up to denounce this, the better.

[moonpie23]

Was curious as to just what changes the NYT made to Grant's piece. Attached is a comparison from Word. (Had to split it into two files or I couldn't upload it.)

Words with a line through them were deleted for the NYT. Words underlined were added.
1901
1902

wow.....i'd say they left out some significant things......i'd love to hear that editor's explanation of some of the things they cut....

[Wander]

The more Duke players that loudly stand up to denounce this, the better.

Won't have the same weight attributed to him as an NBA star like Grant Hill did, but I'd love to see Sean Dockery come out with some sort of small statement.

[Sir Stealth]

Won't have the same weight attributed to him as an NBA star like Grant Hill did, but I'd love to see Sean Dockery come out with some sort of small statement.

I actually think that it would have a lot more weight. To those who agree with Rose, Grant Hill's statements do not mean that much, other than perhaps shaming them over the use of "Uncle Tom" against someone who they must respect. As was discussed in the documentary, Grant is the model African-American player that Duke would recruit - the son of two wealthy Ivy Leaguers.

The (IMO) very regrettable criticism of Dockery's recruitment that came from a small minority of Duke fans (the same group that would send the Brand email) at the time will probably be brought up, but I think that Sean's overall experience at Duke and with Coach K is exactly the kind of thing that needs to be shared to critics who do not know the kind of man Coach K is and the kind of program that he is trying to run.

Most of all, I would want a player like Sean Dockery to say that he is not some kind of exception. He should say that he believes himself to be a model Duke athlete who feels like the program was exactly where he needed to be, the right place for him and what he sought in his college experience. I would hope that Sean would feel that his background did nothing to alter the degree to which he fit in as a "Duke guy."

[gus]

Won't have the same weight attributed to him as an NBA star like Grant Hill did, but I'd love to see Sean Dockery come out with some sort of small statement.

The beauty of twitter...


...what's the definition of "playing like a uncle tom"? What following the rules? Let me know fam?


showw3000 #Duke don't recruit uncle toms or sellouts. They recruit good character kids from decent communities.#SIKE. @Sean_Dockery was hood as hell!
12:14 AM Mar 15th via Twitter for BlackBerry®
Retweeted by Sean_Dockery and 6 others


@MIKE_IRVIN you calling me a uncle Tom and sellout big bro? Lol
7:39 PM Mar 14th via Echofon in reply to MIKE_IRVIN
MIKE_IRVIN Jalen Rose said that all players that went to Duke to play basketball are sellouts or Uncle Toms..

http://twitter.com/Sean_Dockery

[Reilly]

Here's a bit on Grant's father, Calvin, who grew up in the black enclave of Turner's Station in Baltimore County, MD. (There's now a "Hill Court" street named there in his honor.) This is from the obituary of the wife of the black doctor who helped kids from that area go to better schools -- he helped Calvin go to a prep school.

It's an age old American story: education + hard work + taking advantage of opportunity as a path to a better life. It worked for Mike Krzyzewski, son of Polish immigrants ... it worked for Calvin Hill of Turner's Station, who ended up a fraternity brother of President Bush, per wikipedia; husband to the suitemate of the First Lady, as well.

Jalen Rose no doubt worked hard to get where he is. It's OK to be jealous (and dumb) when young. That's really all I took from the documentary -- thought it no big deal (though I didn't watch it that carefully). It was like they were saying 'we thought Duke was soft/spoiled/privileged ... til we played them'. But if he's keeping on saying stuff, that is a problem.

Anyway, thanks to Dr. William Wade for living the American dream, and to helping Calvin live the dream, and Grant. Maybe espn could do a documentary about Dr. Wade's story.

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2000-08-08/news/0008080116_1_turners-station-linda-wade-librarian

[tbyers11]

Won't have the same weight attributed to him as an NBA star like Grant Hill did, but I'd love to see Sean Dockery come out with some sort of small statement.

Or Chris Carrawell

[Class of '94]

This is a great and powerful response. While it does a great job at defending black players who attend Duke and pointing out the complete inappropriateness of the "Uncle Tom" label, I am still concerned that it does not fully address what Rose, King, and Webber have reiterated since the documentary, which is their belief that Duke will not recruit players who do not come from well-off, stable family backgrounds.

When asked by Skip Bayless, Rose said that he did not begrudge black players such as Hill and Elton Brand attending Duke or believe that it made them less black, but he dug in on the assertion that Coach K will not recruit players from underprivileged backgrounds, using phrases such as "I've never seen Coach K in Detroit." Both Rose and King stated that hearing Duke defenders give examples of players who did not come from affluent backgrounds or two-parent families actually proved their point by "having to say it," effectively eliminating any rebuttal by delegitimizing attempts to correct their misperceptions with actual evidence.

In addition to its many fine points, I wish that Grant Hill's piece also rejected this notion and made clear that a choice between being underprivileged, on the one hand, and exhibiting a willingness to buy into education, the team, and the rules, on the other, is a completely false choice. The history of the Fab 5 and it's trashtalking, contempt for the rules, and lack of respect for its coaching staff demonstrates the reasons why Jalen Rose was not a fit for Duke, not his challenging background.

These qualities, which do in fact make a player a poor fit for Duke, do not in any way enhance one's "blackness" or make one some sort of freedom fighter against the white elite, as Chris Webber seems to assert in his blog posts. Winning, education, and personal advancement do a lot more.

I am concerned that while Grant's piece will earn praise from people who already know this to be true, the Duke critics who do not personally know Coach K as a person will just say that it misses the point - that Coach K will not recruit poor inner city black kids. The worst case scenario is that this becomes or has become a self-fulfilling prophecy, where talented, intelligent, kids from similar backgrounds will not come to Duke, even when recruited, because of this perception. The more Duke players that loudly stand up to denounce this, the better.

I think Grant focused on the personal attacks that were directed at him and other black Duke players. As far as the recruiting, I think this is something that should be more appropriately addressed by Coach K since that's more of an attack on him (if Coach K even decides to address this publicly at some point down the road).

[OldPhiKap]

Or Chris Carrawell

Or Chris Duhon.

[wilson]

"Grant Hill 'Get' The Last Word"

Ironic that, in extolling such an articulate, well-composed statement on the front page, DBR makes a typo.

[jipops]

Nolan Smith must be beaming about this excerpt -


All of us are extremely proud of the current team, especially Nolan Smith. He was raised by his mother, plays in memory of his late father and carries himself with the pride and confidence that they instilled in him. He is the quintessential young Dukie.

[swood1000]

There's an interesting interview on ESPN with Jalen Rose and Jimmy King: http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=6224395 in which Jalen says that the "Uncle Tom" comment reflected what he felt as a 17 year old whereas he has a greater understanding today. At other points in the interview, however, he appears to be unwilling to disaffirm those remarks. And he says that at 17 he "had no filter," implying that today he knows that it's not always best to say what you think (not that his thinking has changed).

Interestingly, he says that Duke today would not recruit a kid who came from the background that he came from, but they would recruit his kids. So then is he saying that his kids are Uncle Toms? His attempts to defuse his remarks without repudiating them seems to be leading him in deeper.

Jimmy King had no trouble using the phrase "selling out if you go there" with reference to Duke today, although perhaps he negated this somewhere else and I missed it.

[detule]

I did not watch the Fab 5 documentary, but some of the comments following the NY Times article mention that Jalen's remarks from the documentary were intended to relate his feelings from his freshman year at Michigan, not his current feelings about Duke and Grant. I hope this is true, as I've always found Jalen to be an astute basketball analyst and generally intelligent person. Does anyone who watched the documentary have any insight?


Those were his comments in the film, but he appeared on ESPN the following day (Monday) along with Jimmy King and both stated they still felt the same way about Duke and neither backed away from the Uncle Tom/I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this. comments or the criticism of Grant Hill.

For everyone confused by Jalen's equivocal comments:

Here's the relevant link Mr. Synelliden is referring to (I think):

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=6224395

I am glad he and Jimmy King came out and set the record straight about how they feel TODAY with this interview: Jalen stands one hundred percent behind his comments.

[Chitowndevil]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bv1bXGEzEfQ

Shame this play didn't (also) occur one year later.

[juise]

If wanting more Grant Hills at Duke is wrong, I don't wanna be right.

[swood1000]

To Jalen Rose it seems to come down to this: a person who is not sullen, or who does not feel resentful, has sold out.

[MHNOLADevil]

Podcast (http://espn.go.com/espnradio/player?rd=1#/podcenter/?id=6224601&callsign=ESPNRADIO&autoplay=1) of Jay Williams on Scott Van Pelt today talking about Grant's response to Jalen and his own experience and reaction. He also discusses Kyrie's return. Best lines were his response to the questions of why he went to Duke and what he got out of it. So proud of Grant, Jay & all of our guys.

[wilson]

His attempts to defuse his remarks without repudiating them seems to be leading him in deeper.Perhaps he's merely trying to defudiate them? Perhaps we misunderestimate him? Either way, I don't quite understand his rhetorical strategery.

[ThePublisher]

Brilliant response, Grant. That just about does it. Duke wins, again.

[Mal]

You know what would be really cool? If some story were currently in circulation illustrating the class and character Grant exudes in his writing, in action. Like two former Duke players paying for a former coach's surgery or something. Rebuttal followed by illustration. Wait, what?

I've changed my feelings a bit about Rose's words, now that he's been so weaselly about what he really meant and what he thinks now about Duke and Krzyzewski's recruiting. He seems to have backed off the phrasing of "Uncle Tom" and noted that he was an 18-year-old, which I appreciated. But he also seems incapable of just saying "I was wrong about them and know differently now, as an adult."

Anyway, Grant's piece was refreshing and, after reading the full setup, his finishing line was a delicious twisting of the knife. That, to me, made the point Sword1000 wishes Grant had made explicitly, in a pretty subtle way. For all their talent and attitude, the Fab 5 couldn't overcome our team. Or even the top of the Big Ten. (Or even Carolina!) That Rose and King apparently still don't get that is the perfect illustration of why we didn't recruit Jalen, and it has nothing to do with his demographic background.

[LSanders]

Picking your favorite Duke player is a bit like choosing your favorite child.

However, Grant has always held a special place in my heart because of his grace, intelligence, and humanity.

It's interesting that Rose considers it an "offense" to recruit bright, stable athletes, who come from loving homes and possess the drive and curiosity to make them achievers. Frankly, I think it's sad that some African-American kids may read/listen to Rose's ramblings and use them as justification for not striving to reach their own potentials, as if achieving greatness in something not gansta-related is tantamount to selling out.

Well, Jalen, if recruiting the Grant Hill's of the world is an offense, paint me guilty!!

[hurleyfor3]

wow.....i'd say they left out some significant things......i'd love to hear that editor's explanation of some of the things they cut....

The NYT might have had to deal with space considerations in the print edition. Most of the content they cut didn't directly deal with the contrast to the Fab Five anyway. As a fomer copy editor (and someone who had to deal with others' edits of my own work) I'd say the changes were rather mild.

[LSanders]

Just read Jason Whitlock's response, which is as eloquent as Grant's but vastly more biting. This quote caught my eye from his Twitter:

"This whole ordeal speaks to how ... backward we are. We think no-daddy and ignorant = black culture."

Considering how Frederick Douglass, W.E.B. DuBois, Paul Robeson, Sojouner Truth, Harriet Tubman, Maya Angelou, and a legion of other African-American leaders helped change the world, it's easy to understand the outrage Whitlock feels because of Rose's self-indulgent diatribe.

I'd like to think some good will come from what is turning out to be a kind of referendum on how achievement can and should transcend race.

[wilson]

Just read Jason Whitlock's response, which is as eloquent as Grant's but vastly more biting. This quote caught my eye from his Twitter:

"This whole ordeal speaks to how ... backward we are. We think no-daddy and ignorant = black culture."

Considering how Frederick Douglass, W.E.B. DuBois, Paul Robeson, Sojouner Truth, Harriet Tubman, Maya Angelou, and a legion of other African-American leaders helped change the world, it's easy to understand the outrage Whitlock feels because of Rose's self-indulgent diatribe.

I'd like to think some good will come from what is turning out to be a kind of referendum on how achievement can and should transcend race.I don't generally care for Whitlock too much, but he's spot-on there.

I think the whole thing is also yoked to the broader matter of Duke-hate. Because it's become a point of cultural currency by now to hate Duke, our early '90s teams became an easy straw man for the Fab Five to set themselves against. Plenty of contemporaries made all kinds of comments about the Fab Five that had nothing to do with Duke, and they could easily have engaged their relevance to the cultural currents at the time without enfolding Duke so thoroughly into their story. Obviously, the '92 title game would always have had to be part of the story, but from my view, an inordinate amount of the film's rhetorical weight, and certainly of the attendant conversation, has been devoted to how early '90s Michigan was not Duke. Why have carolina's '93 team and their program in general not received the same treatment? They are a lot more like us than they are like Michigan. In most ways, in fact, I think they do business from a very similar standpoint to ours.

Instead, because it's become funny or cool to hate Duke University, everything it stands for, and everyone who went or goes there, we made a convenient foil for the tale Jalen Rose and his confederates wanted to tell with their film. The racial questions underlying the whole discussion are definitely important, but the Duke hate part of it is part of the issue as well. Running parallel to the cultural components of why people might perceive Duke players in a certain light are similar factors dictating that people regard Duke University's success, and that of its students and graduates, with disdain.

Just as there is the notion that a polished, intelligent player somehow becomes "less black", there's somehow an idea that Duke's success is to be sneered at.
As an American, the cultural and racial matters at work here are disheartening. As a Duke grad, people's hatred for us is equally disheartening, and I must confess that it's finally getting to me. Hate us on the court because we win, but it's not fair to allow that to so thoroughly pervade your perception of us as people that you append all manner of unrelated social issues onto your athletic allegiances.

[ChicagoCrazy84]

I felt a great amount of pride when reading Grant Hill's response. It was so eliquently written and so well thought out. He is a class act and I hope each of the individuals of the Fab Five read that, especially Jalen who as Jason Whitlock pointed out is seemingly the leader of the 5 as the spokesperson.

I will however defend Jalen and his peers with this small comment: During the documentary he is recollecting on all of these thoughts and occurrences and I could give him a pass as he probably had these thoughs when he was a mere teenager, not a mature adult retired from the NBA. I would hope he has come to terms with his ignorance at the time and thinks differently about anyone who has played for Duke.

I would love to hear from Juwan Howard about this because Juwan is a class act player in the league and has been for a long time. I hope his views were not so short-sided and I would like to hear him stand up and defend his peers at Duke. I don't see such a thing from Jimmy King, Ray Jackson, or Chris Webber. They seem indifferent sadly on this whole thing.

[ChrisP]

So, I watched the recent ESPN piece with that idiot Skip Bayless and Rose and King. At one point, King mentions that UM (presumably at the time of the "Fab 5") was considered the "Harvard of the West", the implication being that it was, like Duke a so-called "elite" school.

Umm...what? I have always thought that UM was a very, very good school but "Harvard of the West"? I think not. First of all, Mr. King, last time I checked, Michigan wasn't really all that far west (more midwest, I'd say). But, hey, maybe that nuance wasn't covered in Mr. King's college-level geography class.

Anyway, I thought the ESPN piece just made both Rose and King look even more like clowns than they already did. This is not an argument that can be won, folks. I'm offended by Rose's comments and delighted by Grant Hill's thoughtful, well-written response but I don't know that there's much point in continuing to discuss this issue. The haters will continue to hate, plain and simple.

[swood1000]

So, I watched the recent ESPN piece with that idiot Skip Bayless and Rose and King. At one point, King mentions that UM (presumably at the time of the "Fab 5") was considered the "Harvard of the West", the implication being that it was, like Duke a so-called "elite" school.

Umm...what? I have always thought that UM was a very, very good school but "Harvard of the West"? I think not. First of all, Mr. King, last time I checked, Michigan wasn't really all that far west (more midwest, I'd say).

From that Bastion Of Truth, Wikipedia:


The university became a favored choice for bright Jewish students from New York in the 1920s and 1930s when the Ivy League schools had quotas restricting the number of Jews to be admitted. As a result, U-M gained the nickname "Harvard of the West," which became commonly parodied in reverse after John F. Kennedy referred to himself as "a graduate of the Michigan of the East, Harvard University" in his speech proposing the formation of the Peace Corps while on the front steps of the Michigan Union. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Michigan

[BlueTeuf]

Was the Jennifer Taylor email ever confirmed or debunked? Did Elton ever comment on it?

I suspect the Grant Hill response will bring that purported "exchange" out of the electronic dustbins for a fresh breath of air.

[COYS]

I won't say anything new on the matter because Grant Hill delivered such a comprehensive response. However, what I love most about Grant Hill's letter is that he indisputably connects his story and the story of his family to the broader story of African Americans in the United States. Grant Hill didn't arrive at Duke accidentally. His parents and his parents' parents worked hard to make sure he had those opportunities. Now, this is not to say that every kid from a lower socioeconomic neighborhood who works hard will become a millionaire, as there are far more complex forces at work. However, what offends me most about Rose's comments as a fan of Grant Hill, Duke basketball, and as an individual who happens to be black and attended a private grade school and a private college is that Rose would dare to disparage the accomplishments of Duke basketball players by implying that all Duke kids (and, by extension, other black kids who didn't grow up in the inner city) don't have to work for what they have. To me it's irrelevant that Duke has or hasn't recruited players from the "hood" (although obviously we have had black players from many different backgrounds). Even if Duke had never had a basketball player who came from anything but a middle to middle-upper class two parent household it is STILL absolutely ignorant for Rose to somehow imply that those players are less "black" or less "genuine" than he. My father and my father's parents worked hard, gave me the gift of education, and encouraged me to maximize my talents. I am incredibly lucky that I grew up with the opportunities I had, it is true. I recognize that this gives me a leg up that others don't have. But I still had to work hard for my accomplishments, my parents had to work hard to put me in a position to do what I have done, and my grandparents had to do the same in their time. Rose chooses to disparage this.

"Uncle Tom" is a despicable term. The fact that Rose has not been at all critical of his own thoughts as a 17 year old and has been unwilling to unequivocally renounce such language as offensive and grotesque is proof to me that he is hopelessly out of touch. I am glad that Grant Hill is as eloquent as he is because his response expresses exactly what I wish to convey on the matter. I too am proud to have Grant as part of the Duke community and am even happier that he was able to go 3-0 against the Fab 5.

[NashvilleDevil]

Was the Jennifer Taylor email ever confirmed or debunked? Did Elton ever comment on it?

I suspect the Grant Hill response will bring that purported "exchange" out of the electronic dustbins for a fresh breath of air.

Jalen has already dusted it off twice today via twitter.

[1991 duke law]

What an insanely amazing articulate response. I love grant hill. I am so proud that he went to duke.

[BlueTeuf]

Jalen has already dusted it off twice today via twitter.

I would have thought a sportscaster from a national news organization would have the good sense to back away from this issue. I have a hard time viewing that action as anything other than a personal need to lash out.

Perhaps someone is tweeting on his behalf?

[Atlanta Duke]

Since it appears this is the current open thread on all matters Fab Five related just wanted to note this subject apparently has legs beyond the sports pages

Ta-Nehisi Coates is a senior editor and blogger for The Atlantic who posts on a wide range of subjects that attract some insightful posts (in addition to the usual posting chum)

He initially opened the bidding with this thread on his blog

Jalen Rose's Uncle Tom Comment
http://www.theatlantic.com/culture/archive/2011/03/jalen-roses-uncle-tom-comment/72464/#comment-166233455

Which in turn begat this thread on his blog
On Duke Hatred
http://www.theatlantic.com/culture/archive/2011/03/on-duke-hatred/72537/

The tone of the post from spaceghost06 that is showcased in the On Duke Hatred thread leads me to believe Mr. Ghost may be a UNC grad:)

CBS presumably is glad to see conflicting opinions on Duke being at full boil as it looks for a ratings magnet

[OldPhiKap]

Podcast (http://espn.go.com/espnradio/player?rd=1#/podcenter/?id=6224601&callsign=ESPNRADIO&autoplay=1) of Jay Williams on Scott Van Pelt today talking about Grant's response to Jalen and his own experience and reaction. He also discusses Kyrie's return. Best lines were his response to the questions of why he went to Duke and what he got out of it. So proud of Grant, Jay & all of our guys.

Nice find, worth the time to listen to. Thanks.

[wsb3]

Or Chris Carrawell

Chris came to mind to me also. I loved that 2000 team because all summer and fall after we lost so many players all I heard was how bad we were going to be. We lost one ACC game that year and Chris Senior Day was such a highlight. The stories shared about Chris on that day still bring chills to me.

[Utley]

I'll never think of my Duke '94 degree the same way again. Something to live up to.

[Atlanta Duke]

I would have thought a sportscaster from a national news organization would have the good sense to back away from this issue. I have a hard time viewing that action as anything other than a personal need to lash out.

Perhaps someone is tweeting on his behalf?

It is a chance to get back in the spotlight for a few moments

Who knew Jimmy King would be quoted at length by The Wall Street Journal in 2011 to obtain his response to Grant Hill's comments?

Fab Five Member Responds to Hill
http://blogs.wsj.com/dailyfix/2011/03/16/fab-five-member-responds-to-hill/

[ForkFondler]

It is my understanding that David Henderson grew up in a house with a dirt floor. Please correct me if I am wrong.

ETA: Comment would have been better on the Jalen Rose thread.

[Stray Gator]

As I see it, Jalen Rose deserves more sympathy than scorn. Even now, nearly two decades later, he remains so consumed by bitterness and envy over his less privileged background that it evidently obscures his recognition and appreciation of how fortunate he was to overcome it. And when given the opportunity to put his disparaging remarks about the Duke program and players into a perspective that might seem tempered by maturity, and perhaps more understandable and reasonable in retrospect, he chose instead to retreat into his past persona in a sad effort to revive an image that now fits him no better than a Sonny Bono leisure suit.

That Rose has opted to play a familiar role and defend an old attitude is not surprising; he knows that most of his audience wants to hear him diss Duke. To admit that the views he held as a teenager were misguided, and that the best way for economically disadvantaged youngsters to achieve personal fulfillment and rewarding futures and self-respect is to emulate the Grant Hills of the world, rather than to thumb their noses at convention and show contempt for the rules, would require a person to be courageous and conscientious and unselfish.

[throatybeard]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bv1bXGEzEfQ

Shame this play didn't (also) occur one year later.

People forget this a bit I think, but Grant had a virtually identical but more difficult oop dunk at Georgia Tech in 1992. Same deal as this, but higher, farther behind his head when he corralled it, and on the same side of the rim. I wish there were youtube of that.

[Duvall]

People forget this a bit I think, but Grant had a virtually identical but more difficult oop dunk at Georgia Tech in 1992. Same deal as this, but higher, farther behind his head when he corralled it, and on the same side of the rim. I wish there were youtube of that.

OH YO YO YO (http://www.youtube.com/user/DukeBluePlanet#p/search/0/F-b9enEwhcU).

0:47.

[SuperTurkey]

OH YO YO YO (http://www.youtube.com/user/DukeBluePlanet#p/search/0/F-b9enEwhcU).

0:47.

Better yet, this link takes you directly to that time in the clip (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-b9enEwhcU&t=0m47s&hd=1) and does it in HD to boot. :)

[BD80]

As I see it, Jalen Rose deserves more sympathy than scorn. Even now, nearly two decades later, he remains so consumed by bitterness and envy over his less privileged background that it evidently obscures his recognition and appreciation of how fortunate he was to overcome it. And when given the opportunity to put his disparaging remarks about the Duke program and players into a perspective that might seem tempered by maturity, and perhaps more understandable and reasonable in retrospect, he chose instead to retreat into his past persona in a sad effort to revive an image that now fits him no better than a Sonny Bono leisure suit.

That Rose has opted to play a familiar role and defend an old attitude is not surprising; he knows that most of his audience wants to hear him diss Duke. To admit that the views he held as a teenager were misguided, and that the best way for economically disadvantaged youngsters to achieve personal fulfillment and rewarding futures and self-respect is to emulate the Grant Hills of the world, rather than to thumb their noses at convention and show contempt for the rules, would require a person to be courageous and conscientious and unselfish.

I strenuously disagree. Jalen Rose is the executive producer of the film and the point man for the promotion of the film. In his position of influence, he should not receive a free pass or any sympathy for perpetuating prejudice born of ignorance. He now claims to be an educator (he founded a charter school in Detroit) and should be fighting such prejudice.

I can easily forgive the feelings he had as a teenager. Or, if he had merely been interviewed about those feelings, but had nothing to do with the production or content of the film. But this is HIS film, HIS message. This is his message, today, as an adult, as an educator. He deserves scorn, not sympathy.

[Kfanarmy]

I did not watch the Fab 5 documentary, but some of the comments following the NY Times article mention that Jalen's remarks from the documentary were intended to relate his feelings from his freshman year at Michigan, not his current feelings about Duke and Grant. I hope this is true, as I've always found Jalen to be an astute basketball analyst and generally intelligent person. Does anyone who watched the documentary have any insight?

I might argue that Jalen is reasonably well educated, but not an intelligent person at all. I don't think he even understood what Uncle Tom meant as a 17-year old and having listened to his explanation, I don't think he understands what the term means now with any precision. Of course that puts him among a vast majority who can recognize the negative reaction and hurt words can cause, and so use them without needing to understand them. Many a star has graduated with good grades from high school without having earned them in the same way a less-known peer did. No, having listened to the man speak on several occasions, I am not impressed by his intelligence or his repeated claim that Michigan is the Harvard of the West.

What I believe he was really implying but didn't want to get pinned down on is that these players were Uncle Toms because they went to play at Duke with white players. He used the term primarily because at that age he enjoyed the thug persona, and it probably stung a bit that Duke beat them at each meeting. He was furthering his inner city kid public persona whilst trying to cause pain to the Duke players he couldn't handle on the court. The Fab 5 were basketball talent; they had the athletic ability, size, and skills to beat anyone. What got in their way every year was what is between their ears. That 10% of time, talent and concentration that was wasted playing up FAB 5 hype came back to bite them as they lost concentration at the critical moment, didn't have the play down cold when the game was on the line, and sold themselves out off the court. The reality of who these men really are isn't far from the FAB 5 personalities they played. Only now crisp suits, bought with NBA paychecks, make them look more respectable. Focus less on the image and listen to what is actually being said, I think your impression will change.

[COYS]

I strenuously disagree. Jalen Rose is the executive producer of the film and the point man for the promotion of the film. In his position of influence, he should not receive a free pass or any sympathy for perpetuating prejudice born of ignorance. He now claims to be an educator (he founded a charter school in Detroit) and should be fighting such prejudice.

I can easily forgive the feelings he had as a teenager. Or, if he had merely been interviewed about those feelings, but had nothing to do with the production or content of the film. But this is HIS film, HIS message. This is his message, today, as an adult, as an educator. He deserves scorn, not sympathy.

Right on! Rose's comments are ignorant and prejudiced, whether he intends them to be or not.

[jefreema]

i guess i'm just simple, and i'll freely admit it, but the basic question i have here is: if your program is in the position of being able to pick from the cream of the crop of high school basketball players, why should you have to take lesser players just for the sake of appearances? that doesn't sound like a very savvy way to run your basketball program to me. and clearly the fab 5 were lesser players than the ones that duke had, otherwise they might have beaten us at least once.

[DukieTiger]

I'm sure Jimmy King is just speaking out of retrospect with twitter bombs like this one:

http://twitter.com/#!/jimmyking24/status/48084439384862720

Someone sure has grown up over the past 20 years. But I'm sure he's just speaking about the way he felt when he was 18 or 19 years old- just like in the autobiography, I mean documentary.

Count me as one who thinks it's complete and utter crap for them to try to hide behind their documentary now that those feelings are out in the open. They clearly have some remnants of those old feelings to this day.

BTW isn't Jalen Rose the guy who kind of froze Jason Williams out as a rookie with the Bulls at times? What a classy guy...

[dbcooper]

I'm sure Jimmy King is just speaking out of retrospect with twitter bombs like this one:

http://twitter.com/#!/jimmyking24/status/48084439384862720

Someone sure has grown up over the past 20 years. But I'm sure he's just speaking about the way he felt when he was 18 or 19 years old- just like in the autobiography, I mean documentary.

Count me as one who thinks it's complete and utter crap for them to try to hide behind their documentary now that those feelings are out in the open. They clearly have some remnants of those old feelings to this day.

BTW isn't Jalen Rose the guy who kind of froze Jason Williams out as a rookie with the Bulls at times? What a classy guy...

Jimmy, I think 99 is being a bit conservative...

[4decadedukie]

I might argue that Jalen is reasonably well educated, but not an intelligent person at all. I don't think he even understood what Uncle Tom meant as a 17-year old and having listened to his explanation, I don't think he understands what the term means now with any precision. Of course that puts him among a vast majority who can recognize the negative reaction and hurt words can cause, and so use them without needing to understand them. Many a star has graduated with good grades from high school without having earned them in the same way a less-known peer did. No, having listened to the man speak on several occasions, I am not impressed by his intelligence or his repeated claim that Michigan is the Harvard of the West.

What I believe he was really implying but didn't want to get pinned down on is that these players were Uncle Toms because they went to play at Duke with white players. He used the term primarily because at that age he enjoyed the thug persona, and it probably stung a bit that Duke beat them at each meeting. He was furthering his inner city kid public persona whilst trying to cause pain to the Duke players he couldn't handle on the court. The Fab 5 were basketball talent; they had the athletic ability, size, and skills to beat anyone. What got in their way every year was what is between their ears. That 10% of time, talent and concentration that was wasted playing up FAB 5 hype came back to bite them as they lost concentration at the critical moment, didn't have the play down cold when the game was on the line, and sold themselves out off the court. The reality of who these men really are isn't far from the FAB 5 personalities they played. Only now crisp suits, bought with NBA paychecks, make them look more respectable. Focus less on the image and listen to what is actually being said, I think your impression will change.

Many DBR participants have commented on Grant's eloquent, brilliantly reasoned rebuttal; an unusual number of those comments have been perspective and articulate, which truly pleases me since this is an important matter that DIRECTLY concerns -- and understandably insults -- a member of our Duke Basketball and Duke Alumni families.

However, I believe aforecited post is particularly insightful and I wanted to thank Kfanarmy publicly for his wisdom.

[4decadedukie]

As I see it, Jalen Rose deserves more sympathy than scorn. Even now, nearly two decades later, he remains so consumed by bitterness and envy over his less privileged background that it evidently obscures his recognition and appreciation of how fortunate he was to overcome it. And when given the opportunity to put his disparaging remarks about the Duke program and players into a perspective that might seem tempered by maturity, and perhaps more understandable and reasonable in retrospect, he chose instead to retreat into his past persona in a sad effort to revive an image that now fits him no better than a Sonny Bono leisure suit.

That Rose has opted to play a familiar role and defend an old attitude is not surprising; he knows that most of his audience wants to hear him diss Duke. To admit that the views he held as a teenager were misguided, and that the best way for economically disadvantaged youngsters to achieve personal fulfillment and rewarding futures and self-respect is to emulate the Grant Hills of the world, rather than to thumb their noses at convention and show contempt for the rules, would require a person to be courageous and conscientious and unselfish.


With respect, Stray, I vehemently disagree. Certainly, Rose merited sympathy when he a young man, due to his family and his economic circumstances (among other matters). It would be misleading, however, to suggest that his youth was not without some blessings, as evidenced by his prodigious athletic talents that directly led to a full University of Michigan scholarship and to an NBA career.

All that, however, was two decades ago; in the interim, Rose has had extensive experiences. Knowledge and insight – not to mention civility, decency and understanding – should accompany those experiences. It is utterly obvious they did not. Rose’s documentary could have suggested that he believed “x” about Duke and its players (and its Coach) in his youth, but as he matured and gained astuteness he discovered that he was wrong. Conversely, rather than indicating this, he knowingly and intentionally rekindled hurtful, erroneous and malevolent race and social/economic/educational class differences. Even worse, in my opinion, he was motivated by clear self-interest, to make his documentary more notorious and to enhance his personal celebrity (and, perhaps, his wealth). At this point in Rose’s life (as a fully mature man), I can only categorize purposefully maligning entirely innocent individuals such as Grant Hill (and his family) as deliberate evil.

Moreover, this situation extends well beyond a calculated affront to Grant, to his family, to Duke and Duke Basketball, to Coach K, and to many other innocents. For generations, decent Americans of all backgrounds have struggled to rid our nation and our society of racism. While imperfect and incomplete, MUCH progress has been made (one need look no further than the White House to see pervasive and extensive evidence of this). Rose purposely stimulated race and social/economic/educational discord in his documentary, and I believe he did so principally in self-interest.

[Reilly]

... Rose purposely stimulated race and social/economic/educational discord in his documentary, and I believe he did so principally in self-interest.

I read Straygator as saying the exact same thing. Y'all are in agreement on what Rose did. Now, the question for us is do we react like Grant Hill (with sympathy, while setting the record straight) or do we react like Jalen (with scorn).

Or do we react at all (hard to maintain Zen-like serenity during a time of Madness) ... but no reaction is maybe the best reaction.

[Ima Facultiwyfe]

Won't have the same weight attributed to him as an NBA star like Grant Hill did, but I'd love to see Sean Dockery come out with some sort of small statement.

David Henderson, too.
Love, Ima

[JG Nothing]

There have been many passioned and eloquent responses to this story.

Rose had his say, and ESPN seems to have let the Duke hate get stirred a bit (ratings über alles).

Grant defended Duke more than satisfactorily.

And this thread's circling around and around and creeping more into public policy, so I think it's time to put this one to bed and let us focus on hoops!

-jk

If you ever really want to understand this issue (and also some of the Duke hate), then it necessarily is going to involve "public policy."

[Ima Facultiwyfe]

Won't have the same weight attributed to him as an NBA star like Grant Hill did, but I'd love to see Sean Dockery come out with some sort of small statement.

David Henderson, too.
Love, Ima

[Stray Gator]

I read Straygator as saying the exact same thing. Y'all are in agreement on what Rose did. Now, the question for us is do we react like Grant Hill (with sympathy, while setting the record straight) or do we react like Jalen (with scorn).

Or do we react at all (hard to maintain Zen-like serenity during a time of Madness) ... but no reaction is maybe the best reaction.

Precisely. I'm afraid the point of my post may have been misperceived by some of our colleagues. I don't like or respect Jalen Rose, or defend his documentary or his subsequent comments in any way. But I feel sorry for him because, despite his good fortune in being someone whose talent as a basketball player provided him the opportunity to attain a measure of fame and prosperity that would otherwise have been beyond his potential--and that many might say was undeserved--he seems to be an unhappy person, uncomfortable about the incompatibility of his past attitude with his present station in life, and incapable of enjoying his bountiful blessings because his vision remains clouded by bitter resentment that others are even more successful and admired for the very attributes that he professes to hold in contempt.

[-jk]

There have been many passioned and eloquent responses to this story.

Rose had his say, and ESPN seems to have let the Duke hate get stirred a bit (ratings über alles).

Grant defended Duke more than satisfactorily.

And this thread's circling around and around and creeping more into public policy, so I think it's time to put this one to bed and let us focus on hoops!

-jk