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dairedevil
03-15-2011, 06:41 PM
Just announced at halftime....discussion about how to work him back in to the rotation by Seth Davis, et al.

Yeah, Coach K has a bit of a pickle, but really, Kenny, if Kyrie is ready, how would you NOT play him..they'll figure it out. :)

oops - should have put in the K-toe thread. mods, please move!

striker219
03-15-2011, 06:45 PM
Brilliant! My thought was a line from Billy Madison (right before he plays dodge ball against first graders):

"Now you're all in big... big trouble."



GGLC, indeed.

If he can shake the rust off this weekend that is exactly what it's going to look like in Anaheim.

Mike Corey
03-15-2011, 06:45 PM
SethDavisHoops
Kyrie was never close to coming back RT @jonmachota: Can you give the same update on Kyrie Irving?
10 Mar Favorite Retweet Reply

~

Dear Seth: Please don't pick Duke to win the national championship.

dukelifer
03-15-2011, 06:46 PM
I think this really helps Duke on the defensive end - by giving a safety buffer if Curry or Smith get into foul trouble by allowing Duke to stay aggressive. Duke won this weekend because the upped the defensive pressure. This is what they need to do in the tourney. If Irving can give minutes- it allows Duke to pressure more and still have excellent scorers on the floor at any one time. I am pretty sure Kyrie will not start or play significant minutes in the first couple of games- but he may be on the floor during crunch time if he continues to progress. A few minutes of Kyrie could mean a lot to keeping Nolan fresh!

wsb3
03-15-2011, 06:50 PM
I have complete confidence in Coach K to manage Kyrie coming back for whatever time it may be. It is not like he has not known this was a possibility all along and that he has not planned accordingly.

striker219
03-15-2011, 06:51 PM
Can you imagine being an opposing coach? Let's say that you've successfully put the screws to Nolan and really tired him out (I know that this hasn't happened in about two years, but hear me out). You see the ACC PoY and NPOY candidate calling to the bench for a sub and you think to yourself, "Excellent, maybe we can make a little run while he's on the bench."

And then Kyrie Irving steps on the court in his place.

http://tarheelmania.files.wordpress.com/2007/02/roy-williams.jpg

OZZIE4DUKE
03-15-2011, 06:52 PM
Gee, I guess I was right when I said that Kyrie was going to play this weekend. OpTOEmism pays off! DebbieDowners need not apply! I am soooooooo happy for Kyrie! I am so happy for Duke fans! I am GGLC! Let's Go Duke!

wilson
03-15-2011, 06:53 PM
I have complete confidence in Coach K to manage Kyrie coming back for whatever time it may be. It is not like he has not known this was a possibility all along and that he has not planned accordingly.Exactly. I have felt all along (as have many) that K was somewhat downplaying his hopes for Kyrie's return, and I have no doubt that potential strategies for working Kyrie back into the mix have at least been percolating in his mind for weeks now.
Add this to Kyrie's comment from Sunday about how his basketball IQ has "skyrocketed" during his time as a spectator, and I'm really just not worried.

gam7
03-15-2011, 06:54 PM
I think this really helps Duke on the defensive end - by giving a safety buffer if Curry or Smith get into foul trouble by allowing Duke to stay aggressive. Duke won this weekend because the upped the defensive pressure. This is what they need to do in the tourney. If Irving can give minutes- it allows Duke to pressure more and still have excellent scorers on the floor at any one time. I am pretty sure Kyrie will not start or play significant minutes in the first couple of games- but he may be on the floor during crunch time if he continues to progress. A few minutes of Kyrie could mean a lot to keeping Nolan fresh!

When Coach K says Kyrie will not be playing extended minutes in any one stretch, I assume he means that Kyrie will be rested during TV timeouts.

Bob Green
03-15-2011, 06:54 PM
I think this really helps Duke on the defensive end -

I agree it helps on the defensive end, but it also helps on the offensive end. In addition to Irving being a great distributor, he is a very good shooter. Irving made 14 of 31 (.452) 3-point attempts in the eight games he played. The ability to place another solid shooter on the court is exciting.

1 24 90
03-15-2011, 06:55 PM
Pipe dreams can come true!!!

DeBlueDevil
03-15-2011, 06:56 PM
I think this really helps Duke on the defensive end - by giving a safety buffer if Curry or Smith get into foul trouble by allowing Duke to stay aggressive. Duke won this weekend because the upped the defensive pressure. This is what they need to do in the tourney. If Irving can give minutes- it allows Duke to pressure more and still have excellent scorers on the floor at any one time. I am pretty sure Kyrie will not start or play significant minutes in the first couple of games- but he may be on the floor during crunch time if he continues to progress. A few minutes of Kyrie could mean a lot to keeping Nolan fresh!

Also, I think this completely will add another 10 points to our point total and thats being modest. I say this because it takes our drive and kick offense to a whole nother level. Kyrie doesn't have to play a whole game to increase our chances completely. Just a 10 minutes of hmm beating someone of the dribble making the defense commit and kicking out wide open shooters could give us a 20 point lead in minutes. Let alone the damage he could do by himself.

Can you say back to back? I sure can. :cool:

MCFinARL
03-15-2011, 06:57 PM
SethDavisHoops
Kyrie was never close to coming back RT @jonmachota: Can you give the same update on Kyrie Irving?
10 Mar Favorite Retweet Reply

~

Dear Seth: Please don't pick Duke to win the national championship.

Don't worry; he didn't--though he did pick us to be runner up.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/ncaa/men/2011/ncaa_tourney/brackets/experts/?eref=sihp

MChambers
03-15-2011, 07:00 PM
Don't worry; he didn't--though he did pick us to be runner up.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/ncaa/men/2011/ncaa_tourney/brackets/experts/?eref=sihp

That kind of puts a damper on things!

CDu
03-15-2011, 07:01 PM
I think this really helps Duke on the defensive end - by giving a safety buffer if Curry or Smith get into foul trouble by allowing Duke to stay aggressive. Duke won this weekend because the upped the defensive pressure. This is what they need to do in the tourney. If Irving can give minutes- it allows Duke to pressure more and still have excellent scorers on the floor at any one time. I am pretty sure Kyrie will not start or play significant minutes in the first couple of games- but he may be on the floor during crunch time if he continues to progress. A few minutes of Kyrie could mean a lot to keeping Nolan fresh!

I think it helps us in many aspects, not just defense:

- it gives us more depth, so we can play pressure defense
- it makes guard foul trouble less of a concern, because now we have four guys capable of running the point if needed
- it gives us another guy who can create his own shot or create for others
- it gives us the ability to put three guys who are strong at attacking off the dribble on the floor at the same time
- it gives us another good perimeter shooter
- it gives us another guy capable of playing pressure defense
- it takes pressure off of Smith and Singler to carry the scoring load
- it allows us to let Smith sit for a few minutes a game (if needed) without experiencing a dropoff at the playmaker spot

Honestly, a healthy Irving makes us so much more dangerous than we already were.

watzone
03-15-2011, 07:07 PM
Here are Coach Krzyzewski's comments, see them for yourself - http://bluedevilnation.net/2011/03/kyrie-irving-returns-to-practice-could-play-this-weekend/

billyj
03-15-2011, 07:14 PM
How many weeks do you need to get back to competitive form for an athlete? Kyle Singler said, “He hasn’t missed a beat, but is not in the shape he needs to be.”

I like the idea Kyrie coming off from the bench. We'd know there will be an extra gear we can go to when we need it.

loldevilz
03-15-2011, 07:15 PM
I think this really helps Duke on the defensive end - by giving a safety buffer if Curry or Smith get into foul trouble by allowing Duke to stay aggressive. Duke won this weekend because the upped the defensive pressure. This is what they need to do in the tourney. If Irving can give minutes- it allows Duke to pressure more and still have excellent scorers on the floor at any one time. I am pretty sure Kyrie will not start or play significant minutes in the first couple of games- but he may be on the floor during crunch time if he continues to progress. A few minutes of Kyrie could mean a lot to keeping Nolan fresh!

I've been thinking the same exact thing. Duke can put a lot of ball pressure on good guards like Kemba Walker with Nolan Smith and Kyrie Irving alternating on them at all time which is just like they did with Pullen and Lucas.

In fact Irvings defense best thing about his play in those early games. He shut guys down.

I think the other thing is that if Duke struggles to score at times, Kyrie can really help bail this team out and carry us. I love Nolan, but he can't get to the rim the way Kyrie can. Kyrie is just magical some times.

So against a strong defensive team like Texas he could be very helpful.

Of course this is all speculation. I'm still a little doubtful that he will be able to displace Curry who is playing great ball right now. We will just have to see how it goes.

ajgoodfella7
03-15-2011, 07:16 PM
Kyrie just tweeted:


There's still no guarantee...

http://twitter.com/#!/kyrieirving/status/47812742425493504

So now we can speculate some more.

Hancock 4 Duke
03-15-2011, 07:16 PM
http://twitter.com/#!/kyrieirving
From Twitter
Kyrie Irving, "There's still no guarantee..."
Woops, AJ beat me to it!

OZZIE4DUKE
03-15-2011, 07:16 PM
How many weeks do you need to get back to competitive form for an athlete? Kyle Singler said, “He hasn’t missed a beat, but is not in the shape he needs to be.”

I like the idea Kyrie coming off from the bench. We'd know there will be an extra gear we can go to when we need it.
He will get in better shape with each game he plays. His minutes will increase with each game he plays. Hopefully by April 4th, he'll be able to play as many as we need him to, and we'll need him to play about 37 or 38... :cool:

throatybeard
03-15-2011, 07:17 PM
Kyrie Eleison!


(I see what I did there).

Atlanta Duke
03-15-2011, 07:18 PM
But Len Elmore said on Atlanta sports talk radio this afternoon when picking Texas and/or San Diego State to beat Duke that he did not believe Kyrie Irving would play in the tournament:confused: (the statement comes around the 7:30 mark in the linked interview)

http://www.790thezone.com/instantreplay/Episodes.aspx?PID=1346

Hard for me to not rely on Mr. Elmore's word :)

hurleyfor3
03-15-2011, 07:19 PM
@JayBilas Coach K says in a press conference that Kyrie Irving practiced today, and might play on Friday? Can I change my bracket picks? Wow.

Sure, Jay, go ahead.

Greg_Newton
03-15-2011, 07:23 PM
I have to say, the sight of the locked Toe Vigil on the front page is a beautiful thing.

I would caution folks not to set expectations too high for Kyrie, as he's not going to pick up where he left off. He's not going to come out of the gate averaging 25, 15 and 8.

...I think expecting 22, 12 and 5 is much more reasonable!:D

http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2011/3/15/154af0e8-092b-4430-9954-31610c2a39e5.jpg

Newton_14
03-15-2011, 07:24 PM
I think it helps us in many aspects, not just defense:

- it gives us more depth, so we can play pressure defense
- it makes guard foul trouble less of a concern, because now we have four guys capable of running the point if needed
- it gives us another guy who can create his own shot or create for others
- it gives us the ability to put three guys who are strong at attacking off the dribble on the floor at the same time
- it gives us another good perimeter shooter
- it gives us another guy capable of playing pressure defense
- it takes pressure off of Smith and Singler to carry the scoring load
- it allows us to let Smith sit for a few minutes a game (if needed) without experiencing a dropoff at the playmaker spot

Honestly, a healthy Irving makes us so much more dangerous than we already were.

Agree with all of the above. This is awesome news. I trust that K can figure this out and make it work. We became a better team over the last week without Kyrie, and we have the potential to take that up another notch by adding Kyrie to the mix.

NSDukeFan
03-15-2011, 07:25 PM
Here are Coach Krzyzewski's comments, see them for yourself - http://bluedevilnation.net/2011/03/kyrie-irving-returns-to-practice-could-play-this-weekend/

WoooooHooooooo!!!!!!!!

hurleyfor3
03-15-2011, 07:26 PM
http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2011/3/15/154af0e8-092b-4430-9954-31610c2a39e5.jpg

I'z Kyrie Irving... pennutrayting ur deefence.

gam7
03-15-2011, 07:28 PM
I think it helps us in many aspects, not just defense:

- it gives us more depth, so we can play pressure defense
- it makes guard foul trouble less of a concern, because now we have four guys capable of running the point if needed
- it gives us another guy who can create his own shot or create for others
- it gives us the ability to put three guys who are strong at attacking off the dribble on the floor at the same time
- it gives us another good perimeter shooter
- it gives us another guy capable of playing pressure defense
- it takes pressure off of Smith and Singler to carry the scoring load
- it allows us to let Smith sit for a few minutes a game (if needed) without experiencing a dropoff at the playmaker spot

Honestly, a healthy Irving makes us so much more dangerous than we already were.

I agree and would add:

- it gives us another very good free throw shooter and ball handler in end-of-game situations.

taiw93
03-15-2011, 07:32 PM
There were many of us on this board who believed not long ago that in order to win a national championship, we needed one of two things to go right:

a) Our team (sans Kyrie) improves drastically. This would require Mason and Miles to step up their post play, Kyle to start taking the ball inside more and becoming a more efficient scorer, and Andre to improve up his D and thus get on the floor more, giving us another shooting weapon.

or

b) Kyrie comes back.

It's nice to know that within a span of less than a week, both of these things have apparently materialized. Man, I would HATE to play us in the tournament. GO DUKE! Glad the op(toe)mism paid off.

Greg_Newton
03-15-2011, 07:34 PM
http://twitter.com/#!/kyrieirving
From Twitter
Kyrie Irving, "There's still no guarantee..."
Woops, AJ beat me to it!

@kyrieirving I don’t know what’s going on with all these supposed sources but I have not committed to duke (sic)

-October 21, 2009

CDu
03-15-2011, 07:38 PM
I agree and would add:

- it gives us another very good free throw shooter and ball handler in end-of-game situations.

An excellent addition to the list. It's sometimes hard to remember that as it seems like we've had very few "close late" situations this year. But if we make it deeper in the tournament, it's likely to happen. Irving would make it that much harder on teams trying to pressure us late in games.

I'm trying very hard not to count chickens before they hatch. I don't want to get too excited until I see him actually take the floor. But, oh man, it would be a nice addition to the lineup!

jipops
03-15-2011, 07:40 PM
Noting Featherston's write-up mentioning Kenny Smith and the '84 Heels, this could be a rather tedious process bringing Irving back into the fold. I don't see how K can just make the offense or the defense go back to where it was in early December. We have won lately with a certain style and that is what we'll have to stick with. The team cannot revolve around Kyrie again, he is in a position where he is going to have to find his own fit - and very quickly. From what we have seen of Kyrie, I feel confident he is up to the mental challenge of being a role guy now and finding his spot. Having him (a top 3 NBA pick) available to come off the bench could be a wonderful thing and I think even at 19 years of age he may be accepting of that role.

Kedsy
03-15-2011, 07:41 PM
I just listened to the press conference (thanks Watzone) and what K actually said is "there is a chance Kyrie will play, but that decision won't be made for a few days." and "Let's see how he reacts to today... we'll know more by the open practice on Thursday."

So while this all sounds very promising, Kyrie's right. There's still no guarantee.

obsesseddukefan
03-15-2011, 07:41 PM
and his response was a congratulations, but he brought up a good point. Do we stick with the starting lineup from the ACCT into the NCAA's and bring Kyrie in off the bench the whole tournament, or do we try to work him in the starting lineup again? I am not sure that I would want to disrupt the chemistry we have on the court now. We are gelling at the perfect time, and although I know Kyrie's ability with the ball is amazing, the thought of him giving us an extra boost of the bench puts a smile on my face as well. I for one would like to see him start if we make it past this weekend. Thoughts?

1 24 90
03-15-2011, 07:47 PM
and his response was a congratulations, but he brought up a good point. Do we stick with the starting lineup from the ACCT into the NCAA's and bring Kyrie in off the bench the whole tournament, or do we try to work him in the starting lineup again? I am not sure that I would want to disrupt the chemistry we have on the court now. We are gelling at the perfect time, and although I know Kyrie's ability with the ball is amazing, the thought of him giving us an extra boost of the bench puts a smile on my face as well. I for one would like to see him start if we make it past this weekend. Thoughts?

We could use him similarly to how OSU brings in Aaron Craft off the bench. He doesn't start but plays starter minutes.

On a side note, can you imagine the crowd on Friday if/when Kyrie checks in. AWESOME!

Acymetric
03-15-2011, 07:47 PM
and his response was a congratulations, but he brought up a good point. Do we stick with the starting lineup from the ACCT into the NCAA's and bring Kyrie in off the bench the whole tournament, or do we try to work him in the starting lineup again? I am not sure that I would want to disrupt the chemistry we have on the court now. We are gelling at the perfect time, and although I know Kyrie's ability with the ball is amazing, the thought of him giving us an extra boost of the bench puts a smile on my face as well. I for one would like to see him start if we make it past this weekend. Thoughts?

Bench. He isn't in shape to play starters minutes, and while he will get in better shape I'm not sure he'll get to where he can play all out for 30-35 minutes, so no reason to start him. We've been having multiple people run the point already with Nolan/Seth and Nolan/Tyler so if you add a Nolan/Kyrie and maybe even a Seth/Kyrie set to rest Nolan a few minutes and I think we've got a pretty smooth running machine that lets us get the most out of our players without disrupting the strategies and style we put together over the course of the season.

I'm sooo excited for this tournament, even if I have to miss any Thursday/Friday/ game due to work...(ugh!)

bluedevil007
03-15-2011, 07:47 PM
Kyrie just tweeted:



http://twitter.com/#!/kyrieirving/status/47812742425493504

So now we can speculate some more.

I take this to mean that a final four is not guaranteed or a national championship is not guaranteed. I think he may just be trying to settle the masses down just a tad.

ACniner
03-15-2011, 07:47 PM
Gary Parrish's take

http://gary-parrish.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/6271764/27920581

wilson
03-15-2011, 07:50 PM
and his response was a congratulations, but he brought up a good point. Do we stick with the starting lineup from the ACCT into the NCAA's and bring Kyrie in off the bench the whole tournament, or do we try to work him in the starting lineup again? I am not sure that I would want to disrupt the chemistry we have on the court now. We are gelling at the perfect time, and although I know Kyrie's ability with the ball is amazing, the thought of him giving us an extra boost of the bench puts a smile on my face as well. I for one would like to see him start if we make it past this weekend. Thoughts?We often say things like "I'll just trust Coach K in whatever he decides," and to be honest, I often think it's just a facile manner of not answering an interesting or difficult question.
In this case, however, I think that good arguments can be made for whatever approach, and I really will trust in whatever the coaching staff decides.
There will be those who claim that trying to work Kyrie back into the mix at this late an hour will be disruptive to the team overall and is thus not a good decision, but I frankly think that's ridiculous. I will point once again to the 2001 team, for 2 reasons:
1. Boozer returned in the Sweet 16, and it didn't mess up strategy or chemistry at all. K has experience in exactly this kind of injury situation.
2. The backcourt tandem of Jason Williams and Chris Duhon played essentially interchangeable roles for much of that season, especially down the stretch, on both ends of the floor. Rotating pairs of guards from among Nolan, Andre, Seth, and Kyrie could be devastatingly flummoxing to opponents.
To reiterate, I am not worried about the implications of Kyrie's return from the standpoint of chemistry or of strategy. K knows too well how to do this, and the team loves each other too much for it to become a problem.

tbyers11
03-15-2011, 07:52 PM
@kyrieirving I don’t know what’s going on with all these supposed sources but I have not committed to duke (sic)

-October 21, 2009

Agreed. It seems like Kyrie has been a disciple of the Coach K school of managing expectations for some time.

Seriously, it seems that if his toe responds well to full practices he will play this weekend. Nothing is certain but as long as the toe responds it is full steam ahead and all of the discussion at the end of the vigil thread about Kyrie not playing to save himself for his NBA future can be put to rest.

TruBlu
03-15-2011, 07:52 PM
He will get in better shape with each game he plays. His minutes will increase with each game he plays. Hopefully by April 4th, he'll be able to play as many as we need him to, and we'll need him to play about 37 or 38... :cool:

Agree! But would also add and with each practice!

mr. synellinden
03-15-2011, 07:56 PM
1899


It's been a while.

Here's a little refresher (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3pbLyHCOCo).

The quality isn't great, but it should augment whatever giddiness there already is.

And in case that wasn't enough (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFVj_aQ4h98&feature=related).

elvis14
03-15-2011, 07:56 PM
My best friend just called me with the news. He was geeked because he knew something before I did. Thanks you all you guys that doesn't happen too often. I've been jumping around like an idiot for about 20 min now. The wife is slightly annoyed b/c I'm supposed to be helping get the kids to bed :-)


WoooooHooooooo!!!!!!!!

That was my first thought. OK my first 5 thoughts followed by "yeah, baby", followed by the following 3 thoughts:


Hi, I'm Joe Husky and I just crapped by pants!
Howdy, I'm Billy Bob Longhorn and I too have crapped my pants!!
Hey Dude, I'm San Diego Cruz and I ah just crapped my pants as well!!!




I think it helps us in many aspects, not just defense:

- it gives us more depth, so we can play pressure defense
- it makes guard foul trouble less of a concern, because now we have four guys capable of running the point if needed
- it gives us another guy who can create his own shot or create for others
- it gives us the ability to put three guys who are strong at attacking off the dribble on the floor at the same time
- it gives us another good perimeter shooter
- it gives us another guy capable of playing pressure defense
- it takes pressure off of Smith and Singler to carry the scoring load
- it allows us to let Smith sit for a few minutes a game (if needed) without experiencing a dropoff at the playmaker spot

Honestly, a healthy Irving makes us so much more dangerous than we already were.

After all my idiocy my thoughts on the subject and my best friends matched CDu's above. Oh and did I mention WHOOOO HOOOO (so I'm not done with my idiocy yet). Gotta go get the kids to bed and try to calm down.

dukelifer
03-15-2011, 07:59 PM
Noting Featherston's write-up mentioning Kenny Smith and the '84 Heels, this could be a rather tedious process bringing Irving back into the fold. I don't see how K can just make the offense or the defense go back to where it was in early December. We have won lately with a certain style and that is what we'll have to stick with. The team cannot revolve around Kyrie again, he is in a position where he is going to have to find his own fit - and very quickly. From what we have seen of Kyrie, I feel confident he is up to the mental challenge of being a role guy now and finding his spot. Having him (a top 3 NBA pick) available to come off the bench could be a wonderful thing and I think even at 19 years of age he may be accepting of that role.

I am sure he will do whatever is asked of him- he will just be excited to be on the court again.

Cell-R
03-15-2011, 08:09 PM
I'm in Lilly library right now trying to do work. Not happening. Kyrie could come back. Time to break out the ole' KyRiEPEAT sign from the Michigan State game!

Chard
03-15-2011, 08:10 PM
We often say things like "I'll just trust Coach K in whatever he decides," and to be honest, I often think it's just a facile manner of not answering an interesting or difficult question.
In this case, however, I think that good arguments can be made for whatever approach, and I really will trust in whatever the coaching staff decides.
There will be those who claim that trying to work Kyrie back into the mix at this late an hour will be disruptive to the team overall and is thus not a good decision, but I frankly think that's ridiculous. I will point once again to the 2001 team, for 2 reasons:
1. Boozer returned in the Sweet 16, and it didn't mess up strategy or chemistry at all. K has experience in exactly this kind of injury situation.
2. The backcourt tandem of Jason Williams and Chris Duhon played essentially interchangeable roles for much of that season, especially down the stretch, on both ends of the floor. Rotating pairs of guards from among Nolan, Andre, Seth, and Kyrie could be devastatingly flummoxing to opponents.
To reiterate, I am not worried about the implications of Kyrie's return from the standpoint of chemistry or of strategy. K knows too well how to do this, and the team loves each other too much for it to become a problem.

I had similar thoughts. You could also add the return of Elton Brand to the list of late additions to the team.

I'd like to add that the team practiced with Kyrie and played eight games before the injury. So, it's not like this is some unknown factor being added to the equation.

Since then, Duke has managed a very good record while placing multiple players into the line up with much success. Those players have grown and become better players. The "role" players have been starters and have had their ups and all to necessary downs. From that they have grown and we saw the result this weekend. In my opinion, there seemed to be a bit of Kyrie watching from even the seniors for those eight games that Kyrie played. That's understandable. It was the game plan; go, Kyrie, go. I can only imagine that adding a player of Kyrie's caliber to a more mature and confident team to be an overwhelming positive. Let's all just sit back and watch what is probably now the favorite to get to Houston.

I don't think Coach K will make the same mistake Coach Smith made with Smith back then. I'm betting Coach K is thinking that the style of play that was originally intended is just another tool in the toolbox that this team has. Marvelous.

NYBri
03-15-2011, 08:16 PM
...to see him play again. I feared we'd never see #1 again and our off-season would have a bitter sweet feeling...even if we won it all.

BTW...Nolan's incredible play has been a joy equal to the disappointment of Kyrie's injury...maybe even more.

NashvilleDevil
03-15-2011, 08:22 PM
Noting Featherston's write-up mentioning Kenny Smith and the '84 Heels, this could be a rather tedious process bringing Irving back into the fold. I don't see how K can just make the offense or the defense go back to where it was in early December. We have won lately with a certain style and that is what we'll have to stick with. The team cannot revolve around Kyrie again, he is in a position where he is going to have to find his own fit - and very quickly. From what we have seen of Kyrie, I feel confident he is up to the mental challenge of being a role guy now and finding his spot. Having him (a top 3 NBA pick) available to come off the bench could be a wonderful thing and I think even at 19 years of age he may be accepting of that role.

I would agree with you but the fact that Coach K has brought injured players back into the fold on multiple title teams that I just do not see this happening.

cspan37421
03-15-2011, 08:23 PM
Wonderful news. As I thought about what role he might play now, I can't help but think that Nolan's game this year reminds me more of Kyrie's game than that of Nolan of last year. So my initial impression was that he'd be a natural at giving Nolan a break. That would limit his minutes but keep the character of the team.

OTOH, Nolan probably does not need a break.

I sure hope some goon does not go out of his way to stomp on his toe. At least ___ isn't in the tourney, that should cut the odds substantially. [fill in your favorite goon-ball team - GT, VT, etc.; I was going to say thugball, but apparently that's a controversial/charged term nowadays)

cspan37421
03-15-2011, 08:25 PM
btw, how prescient and significant is the "One" team poster now? :)

Jeff0r3
03-15-2011, 08:26 PM
Just saw it on ESPN... WOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOO... Fear the Blue Devils! Now Gotlieb says they are the team to beat... Hate the Target on us, but love the fact that teams just won't know exactly which team to prepare for! Loving this! I'd still rather of him not gotten hurt this year and see what we could have done. But it is kinda nice knowing that there is another dynamic that teams will have to plan for!

NashvilleDevil
03-15-2011, 08:27 PM
Wonderful news. As I thought about what role he might play now, I can't help but think that Nolan's game this year reminds me more of Kyrie's game than that of Nolan of last year. So my initial impression was that he'd be a natural at giving Nolan a break. That would limit his minutes but keep the character of the team.

OTOH, Nolan probably does not need a break.

I sure hope some goon does not go out of his way to stomp on his toe. At least ___ isn't in the tourney, that should cut the odds substantially. [fill in your favorite goon-ball team - GT, VT, etc.; I was going to say thugball, but apparently that's a controversial/charged term nowadays)

If Duke plays the Vols in the 2nd round I wouldn't put it past them to do something to Kyrie.

mkline09
03-15-2011, 08:28 PM
If Duke plays the Vols in the 2nd round I wouldn't put it past them to do something to Kyrie.

Maybe they'll invite him to a barbecue at Bruce's house?

Chris Randolph
03-15-2011, 08:30 PM
Inititally, when I read that he practiced and could play Friday I was pumped!!! Now the "no guarantee" tweet has brought me back down to earth, which is a good thing.

It will all come down to how his toe reacts tomorrow and Thursday. If it feels fine after practicing hard on it for a few days, he will go. If there are some problems (not setbacks, just swelling or soreness), they may hold him back another week.

If he does come back, bring him off the bench. If he is playing well and the team is playing well, play his butt off :)

coldriver10
03-15-2011, 08:30 PM
He's another (very significant) piece to the championship puzzle. But I hope no one thinks it's a given now...

Chard
03-15-2011, 08:31 PM
He's another (very significant) piece to the championship puzzle. But I hope no one thinks it's a given now...

Not a chance. But I do think the FF is 99% likely.

NSDukeFan
03-15-2011, 08:33 PM
Just saw it on ESPN... WOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOO... Fear the Blue Devils! Now Gotlieb says they are the team to beat... Hate the Target on us, but love the fact that teams just won't know exactly which team to prepare for! Loving this! I'd still rather of him not gotten hurt this year and see what we could have done. But it is kinda nice knowing that there is another dynamic that teams will have to plan for!

I'm pretty sure Duke is fairly used to being targeted by other teams as a team to beat, as indicated by the four court stormings this year.

wilson
03-15-2011, 08:37 PM
Not a chance. But I do think the FF is 99% likely.Let's not get ahead of ourselves. A return by Kyrie would certainly be a boon to our chances. But to say it makes the FF "99% likely" is just not even fair to the players, and it only sets you up for disappointment. The NCAA Tournament is a fickle, fickle lady.

Chard
03-15-2011, 08:38 PM
Let's not get ahead of ourselves. A return by Kyrie would certainly be a boon to our chances. But to say it makes the FF "99% likely" is just not even fair to the players, and it only sets you up for disappointment. The NCAA Tournament is a fickle, fickle lady.

True.

Okay, 95%.

mkline09
03-15-2011, 08:39 PM
Let's not get ahead of ourselves. A return by Kyrie would certainly be a boon to our chances. But to say it makes the FF "99% likely" is just not even fair to the players, and it only sets you up for disappointment. The NCAA Tournament is a fickle, fickle lady.

Sometimes I dare say it is like an Old Man trying to return soup at a Deli. Angry my friends.

OldPhiKap
03-15-2011, 08:46 PM
Congrats, Kyrie!!

Coach K's press conference was very informative, as usual, about the state of the team. Looks like a man ready to give it his all. And it sounds like the team is fully engaged.

RIP 'EM UP, TEAR 'EM UP, GIVE'M HELL DUKE !!!!!!!

lotusland
03-15-2011, 08:50 PM
It will be great to see Kyrie on the court in Duke blue again. As talented as Kyrie demonstrated that he is, I have the feeling that some folks have an unrealistic expectation for what Kyrie can contribute at this point.

He's a freshman who never played in a conference game and we saw what happened to Andre's production once conference play started. Also Baylor, MSU, Marquette, and Butler, in hindsight, weren't as good as we thought they were at the time. The guy obviously has tremendous ability but when I hear folks say he was our best player or possibly the best player in the country I think that's an overstatement for a freshman after only 8 non-conference games. Nolan was our best player then and he has improved immensely while Kyrie has been out. He has become a legitimate point guard over the past couple of months. And, as quick as Kyrie was, I'd still rate Nolan higher at scoring off penetration. Finally I think Sunday was the best game Duke played all year with or without Kyrie.
My point is that in order to go deep in the tournament we need our upper classmen to lead and be great. Kyrie can be a big part of our success but it's a lot more importantant IMO for our Seniors to be great and our bigs to be steady than for Kyrie to put up a double/double every game.

davekay1971
03-15-2011, 08:51 PM
I'm ecstatic for Kyrie, and excited as anything for our team. I have no further coherent thoughts. I just can't wait to see him in uniform, to see how Coach K works him back into the lineup, and I'm hoping for the best.

GO DUKE!

77devil
03-15-2011, 08:53 PM
Congrats, Kyrie!!

Coach K's press conference was very informative, as usual, about the state of the team. Looks like a man ready to give it his all. And it sounds like the team is fully engaged.

Good to learn. I was worried that Coach was distracted and shaken up by Jalen Roses's fantasy film and comments.

AAA1980
03-15-2011, 08:54 PM
It will be great to see Kyrie on the court in Duke blue again. As talented as Kyrie demonstrated that he is, I have the feeling that some folks have an unrealistic expectation for what Kyrie can contribute at this point.

He's a freshman who never played in a conference game and we saw what happened to Andre's production once conference play started. Also Baylor, MSU, Marquette, and Butler, in hindsight, weren't as good as we thought they were at the time. The guy obviously has tremendous ability but when I hear folks say he was our best player or possibly the best player in the country I think that's an overstatement for a freshman after only 8 non-conference games. Nolan was our best player then and he has improved immensely while Kyrie has been out. He has become a legitimate point guard over the past couple of months. And, as quick as Kyrie was, I'd still rate Nolan higher at scoring off penetration. Finally I think Sunday was the best game Duke played all year with or without Kyrie.
My point is that in order to go deep in the tournament we need our upper classmen to lead and be great. Kyrie can be a big part of our success but it's a lot more importantant IMO for our Seniors to be great and our bigs to be steady than for Kyrie to put up a double/double every game.

I understand what youre saying but its also unfair to compare the plights of Andre Dawkins to a guy who could be the #1 player in the draft even if he didnt play..Two different animals on two different levels of ability..

jv001
03-15-2011, 08:56 PM
It will be great to see Kyrie on the court in Duke blue again. As talented as Kyrie demonstrated that he is, I have the feeling that some folks have an unrealistic expectation for what Kyrie can contribute at this point.

He's a freshman who never played in a conference game and we saw what happened to Andre's production once conference play started. Also Baylor, MSU, Marquette, and Butler, in hindsight, weren't as good as we thought they were at the time. The guy obviously has tremendous ability but when I hear folks say he was our best player or possibly the best player in the country I think that's an overstatement for a freshman after only 8 non-conference games. Nolan was our best player then and he has improved immensely while Kyrie has been out. He has become a legitimate point guard over the past couple of months. And, as quick as Kyrie was, I'd still rate Nolan higher at scoring off penetration. Finally I think Sunday was the best game Duke played all year with or without Kyrie.
My point is that in order to go deep in the tournament we need our upper classmen to lead and be great. Kyrie can be a big part of our success but it's a lot more importantant IMO for our Seniors to be great and our bigs to be steady than for Kyrie to put up a double/double every game.

But what a back court of Nolan(2) and Kyrie(1). Would you not say Nolan is 1A and
Kyrie1B of our guards. Then throw in Seth, Andre and Tyler we once again have the best perimeter in the country. Kyrie will not play more than 10-12 mins to begin with,imho. Hey it's all good. Go Duke!

GP3NY
03-15-2011, 08:57 PM
Regardless of what Kyrie will contribute in the upcoming weeks.... Congrats to him on getting to this point to play again! I can't imagine how difficult the past 3 months have been for him!

MulletMan
03-15-2011, 09:00 PM
For those who didn't watch Watzone's video of K's presser, I would just point out that K was asked, "Hey, if Kyrie doesn't play this weekend, and Duke makes it to the Sweet 16, surely he'll play in Anaheim, right?"

K's response was essentially, "We don't know, and there are no guarantees because we didn't expect him to progress this far this fast."

So let's just see how it goes before we make the kid feel guilty if his body can't go. OK?

jipops
03-15-2011, 09:00 PM
I would agree with you but the fact that Coach K has brought injured players back into the fold on multiple title teams that I just do not see this happening.

But this is an unprecedented case. We've lost players for a few weeks, never for 3+ months. There is a big difference between re-introducing Kyrie after his injury and reintroducing Carlos, Grant Hill, and Bobby Hurley after theirs.

jgehtland
03-15-2011, 09:00 PM
... but one of the things I'm most looking forward to Kyrie providing is a lift for Mason, Miles and Ryan. Remember, Mason's stats fell off big time after Kyrie went down. If, with Kyrie, we can push the tempo a little more AND get a few more penetrate-and-dump-off-to-the-post plays, our front court goes from 20 points a night to 30+ and that's a huge advantage gained.

roywhite
03-15-2011, 09:05 PM
A small joy will be getting to see Nolan and others turn the tables on Kyrie and interview him on DukeBluePlanet. Kyrie has developed into quite the media presence in his time off. :)

Duke31122
03-15-2011, 09:07 PM
Idk, but I was so excited. Now seeing Kyrie's tweet about there is still no gaurantee has me dissapointed. I am very dissapointed and dampened at the moment. Somebody please lift me back up.

Kfanarmy
03-15-2011, 09:09 PM
and his response was a congratulations, but he brought up a good point. Do we stick with the starting lineup from the ACCT into the NCAA's and bring Kyrie in off the bench the whole tournament, or do we try to work him in the starting lineup again? I am not sure that I would want to disrupt the chemistry we have on the court now. We are gelling at the perfect time, and although I know Kyrie's ability with the ball is amazing, the thought of him giving us an extra boost of the bench puts a smile on my face as well. I for one would like to see him start if we make it past this weekend. Thoughts? is for him to come off the bench, primarily because all the other guys on the team have learned to play as a team in a style that does not revolve around him. At this point, he needs to fit into what they have built, I just don't think there is time for the other 7 or 8 guys who will play in a game to adjust to another game.

Dr. Tina
03-15-2011, 09:17 PM
I know we have all missed Kyrie and felt bummed out about not being able to watch him play with this (toe)tally frustrating injury. However, I'm going to look at the glass half full and consider it a blessing in disguise. Without KI in our line-up, a number of our guys (Ryan, Seth, Dre, and Tyler) have gotten significantly more playing time than they probably would have received with a healthy Kyrie. They all have had the opportunity to experience to have some real playing time in high pressure games. There is a confidence they gain from being able to say they've been out on the floor and have had success making contributions to win games. I think this can only help us moving forward into March.

While we'd all love Kyrie to be starting and playing lots of minutes, we don't necessarily need him for that. Having Kyrie giving us minutes off the bench will be such a lift in and of itself. What other team in the tournament is going to be able to say..."Yeah, we have a top 3 draft pick sitting on the bench, waiting to give us a spark when his number is called?"

With a healthy Kyrie, it's possible that we could have lost maybe 1 or 2 games, but the dynamic of those losses would have been different. Sometimes when a team is rolling so much with such high caliber talent, they can end up being disappointed in an unforeseen way. Our team has had some growing pains. We had the St. John's game where we were blown out. We had another game between St. John's and the UNC game at home where we were behind and came back to win. Then, we had the UNC game where we were behind, but with already having a "come from behind" win in the bank, we had the confidence and leadership to know we could right the ship in that 2nd half of the UNC game. We've had the experience of having a lead and losing it down the stretch (VA Tech). All of these game situations/outcomes are ones we may not have had with a healthy Kyrie, and our role players all experienced it in various, significant ways. So, I think going through this journey has ultimately made our team stronger than say Ohio St. (which only had 2 losses) or Kansas (well, personal tragedies have been difficult for them, so I gotta give them that) or a Pitt.

There's no guarantee (yet) that Kyrie will play, though it's getting more and more likely. There's no guarantee we'll win another championship even with a healthy Kyrie. But I think we can all agree that this season has helped all of our players grow, persevere, and become more resilient. I think that's a great edge to have, especially coming off such a successful team performance in the ACC tournament, and having Kyrie available will really just be icing on the cake... :)

Exiled_Devil
03-15-2011, 09:19 PM
Noting Featherston's write-up mentioning Kenny Smith and the '84 Heels, this could be a rather tedious process bringing Irving back into the fold. I don't see how K can just make the offense or the defense go back to where it was in early December. We have won lately with a certain style and that is what we'll have to stick with. The team cannot revolve around Kyrie again, he is in a position where he is going to have to find his own fit - and very quickly. From what we have seen of Kyrie, I feel confident he is up to the mental challenge of being a role guy now and finding his spot. Having him (a top 3 NBA pick) available to come off the bench could be a wonderful thing and I think even at 19 years of age he may be accepting of that role.

I think that we've played the same sets recently as we did with Kyrie in the lineup. Recently, it's been Seth at the point in those sets. Insert Kyle into those sets, and its an instant upgrade.

Most of the Duke sets are built for multiple options depending on how the defense reacts. We haven't seen many Seth drives to the basket (or drive and dishes) but a lot of plays where he goes three steps in and pulls out? Those will be Kyrie to the rack for the basket or the dish.

Another upside of Kyrie joining the team is that other teams will have a hard time prepping for us, because they won't have much film to go on.

devildeac
03-15-2011, 09:20 PM
I agree it helps on the defensive end, but it also helps on the offensive end. In addition to Irving being a great distributor, he is a very good shooter. Irving made 14 of 31 (.452) 3-point attempts in the eight games he played. The ability to place another solid shooter on the court is exciting.

And, if he is as quick/fast as he was before his injury, I can't wait to see him drive the lane, draw a double team and then kick the ball out to the wing where he has quickly relocated to receive a perfect pass and then bury a 21 footer.

Oh, wait a minute, that's traveling:o. Well, I swear he was that quick back in November:rolleyes:.

superdave
03-15-2011, 09:25 PM
Should I change my last couple of picks based on this news? Or would that be raising expectations to unrealistic levels?

FerryFor50
03-15-2011, 09:27 PM
I think some of the happiest people to hear this news would be the Plumlees.

They really thrived when Kyrie was in the game, throwing them lobs. It helped raise their energy level to get involved offensively like that.

slower
03-15-2011, 09:27 PM
It will be great to see Kyrie on the court in Duke blue again. As talented as Kyrie demonstrated that he is, I have the feeling that some folks have an unrealistic expectation for what Kyrie can contribute at this point.

He's a freshman who never played in a conference game and we saw what happened to Andre's production once conference play started. Also Baylor, MSU, Marquette, and Butler, in hindsight, weren't as good as we thought they were at the time. The guy obviously has tremendous ability but when I hear folks say he was our best player or possibly the best player in the country I think that's an overstatement for a freshman after only 8 non-conference games. Nolan was our best player then and he has improved immensely while Kyrie has been out. He has become a legitimate point guard over the past couple of months. And, as quick as Kyrie was, I'd still rate Nolan higher at scoring off penetration. Finally I think Sunday was the best game Duke played all year with or without Kyrie.
My point is that in order to go deep in the tournament we need our upper classmen to lead and be great. Kyrie can be a big part of our success but it's a lot more importantant IMO for our Seniors to be great and our bigs to be steady than for Kyrie to put up a double/double every game.

At the time of his injury, I feel that Kyrie was our best player. He's a projected Top 3 pick FOR A REASON.

devildeac
03-15-2011, 09:32 PM
We often say things like "I'll just trust Coach K in whatever he decides," and to be honest, I often think it's just a facile manner of not answering an interesting or difficult question.
In this case, however, I think that good arguments can be made for whatever approach, and I really will trust in whatever the coaching staff decides.
There will be those who claim that trying to work Kyrie back into the mix at this late an hour will be disruptive to the team overall and is thus not a good decision, but I frankly think that's ridiculous. I will point once again to the 2001 team, for 2 reasons:
1. Boozer returned in the Sweet 16, and it didn't mess up strategy or chemistry at all. K has experience in exactly this kind of injury situation.
2. The backcourt tandem of Jason Williams and Chris Duhon played essentially interchangeable roles for much of that season, especially down the stretch, on both ends of the floor. Rotating pairs of guards from among Nolan, Andre, Seth, and Kyrie could be devastatingly flummoxing to opponents.
To reiterate, I am not worried about the implications of Kyrie's return from the standpoint of chemistry or of strategy. K knows too well how to do this, and the team loves each other too much for it to become a problem.

K did something very similar with Hurley after his injury in 1991, IIRC, and with G. Hill after a bad high ankle sprain (or was it his broken nose?) in 1993. I think he had Tony Lang start and had Grant come off the bench so as to not disrupt "chemistry." I'd be happy if someone with a better memory than me could/would provide the exact details but those years worked out pretty well. Not NC-type well but still involved the successful re-introduction of an injured player to the team.

DukeDevilDeb
03-15-2011, 09:35 PM
Idk, but I was so excited. Now seeing Kyrie's tweet about there is still no gaurantee has me dissapointed. I am very dissapointed and dampened at the moment. Somebody please lift me back up.

If either Coach K or Kyrie were not pretty darn sure that he would play some in the tournament, do you think this even would have been brought up?

Somehow, I don't think so. I think we'll see #1 on the court again, coming off the bench, and not (Sorry, Ozzie) for 35 or 36 minutes.

But every minute is a plus.

Welcome back, Kyrie!

basket1544
03-15-2011, 09:39 PM
Some small part of my glee-filled self that is shouting MR. RIE, MR. RIE also feels bad for those trying to scout the Duke team now.

sagegrouse
03-15-2011, 09:44 PM
K did something very similar with Hurley after his injury in 1991, IIRC, and with G. Hill after a bad high ankle sprain (or was it his broken nose?) in 1993. I think he had Tony Lang start and had Grant come off the bench so as to not disrupt "chemistry." I'd be happy if someone with a better memory than me could/would provide the exact details but those years worked out pretty well. Not NC-type well but still involved the successful re-introduction of an injured player to the team.

Well, even after Carlos Boozer returned, K started Casey Sanders at center. Here's the boxscore (http://goduke.statsgeek.com/basketball-m/games/boxscore.php?gameid=20010402) for the National Championship game in 2001.

sagegrouse

basket1544
03-15-2011, 09:47 PM
IIRC, Boozer did start the second half of the championship game and Coach K was hesitant to do that because he didn't want to mess the chemistry of the team up.

House G
03-15-2011, 09:50 PM
K did something very similar with Hurley after his injury in 1991, IIRC, and with G. Hill after a bad high ankle sprain (or was it his broken nose?) in 1993. I think he had Tony Lang start and had Grant come off the bench so as to not disrupt "chemistry." I'd be happy if someone with a better memory than me could/would provide the exact details but those years worked out pretty well. Not NC-type well but still involved the successful re-introduction of an injured player to the team.

When Hurley got hurt, Duke's first game without him was at the PMAC against LSU and Shaq. Grant Hill played point guard in that game. I don't recall how long Hurley was out or if Grant continued to play Hurley's position, but that situation was a little different.

Kedsy
03-15-2011, 09:54 PM
Gary Parrish's take

http://gary-parrish.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/6271764/27920581

Sounds like Parrish thinks Kyrie's Dad may still be holding back approval. This isn't a done deal yet.

AlaskanAssassin
03-15-2011, 09:56 PM
COACH K CONFIRMED:

http://twitter.com/RealJayWilliams/statuses/47852397904670720

devildeac
03-15-2011, 09:58 PM
Anyone think of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsEqBQAcYVw


Or this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTx9WMsxLLM

wilson
03-15-2011, 09:59 PM
Sounds like Parrish thinks Kyrie's Dad may still be holding back approval. This isn't a done deal yet.Some caution is prudent, but I think it's mostly with regard to a practice setback, rather than Kyrie's father. I find it highly unlikely that K et al are discussing this in press conference, and subsequently getting it plastered all over ESPN and everywhere else, and that they're then going to go to Kyrie's father later this week and say, "Oh by the way, is it OK if your son plays?"
I'm sure that Drederick has been involved in conversations up to this point, and while he continues to demur, I really, really don't think K would have carried the discussion to this point if there weren't a very good chance of Kyrie suiting up at some time during the NCAAT.

fgb
03-15-2011, 10:00 PM
Sounds like Parrish thinks Kyrie's Dad may still be holding back approval. This isn't a done deal yet.

that parrish post had me scratching my head some. his dad has to "sign off"? what does that even mean? with all due respect to drederick irving, the last time i looked at the team of coaches, trainers, and world class doctors surrounding kyrie, there was nobody named irving.

Devilsfan
03-15-2011, 10:01 PM
I'm just glad that K let us kick UNC's butt by 17 without being at full force. Imagine what they score would have been Sunday with a healthy in playing shape Kyrie. Next time let's show no mercy.

Duvall
03-15-2011, 10:01 PM
Sounds like Parrish thinks Kyrie's Dad may still be holding back approval. This isn't a done deal yet.

I'm not sure Parrish actually knows what he's talking about. I don't think there's any way Krzyzewski says what said tonight unless everyone was on board. The only remaining variables are how Irving responds to a week of practice. If it goes well, he's playing.

AlaskanAssassin
03-15-2011, 10:01 PM
it's a done deal, yall! He is playing! no more worrying on whether he'll play or not. Just worry how he'll help!

roywhite
03-15-2011, 10:02 PM
K did something very similar with Hurley after his injury in 1991, IIRC, and with G. Hill after a bad high ankle sprain (or was it his broken nose?) in 1993. I think he had Tony Lang start and had Grant come off the bench so as to not disrupt "chemistry." I'd be happy if someone with a better memory than me could/would provide the exact details but those years worked out pretty well. Not NC-type well but still involved the successful re-introduction of an injured player to the team.

Grant's injury was actually in the great 1991-92 season, and may provide a guide for Duke's use of Kyrie here. After an injury against Wake Forest, Grant missed 3 late-season games and then played in the final regular season game against UNC, coming off the bench. He then came off the bench in all 3 games of the ACC Tournament and in the NCAA Tournament all the way up to the final vs Michigan (how many people would guess he was not a starter in the epic regional final win over Kentucky), where he started.

Certainly, Grant played a good number of minutes in those games, but was used off the bench. He was such a good player, and such a team player, that he wasn't greatly bothered not to be a starter; Coach K could observe the initial flow of the game, before deciding how and when to utilize Grant best.

I could see the same type of thing with Kyrie; come off the bench, limited minutes at first, but such a good team player that he would provide a great lift without having to start.

devildeac
03-15-2011, 10:02 PM
When Hurley got hurt, Duke's first game without him was at the PMAC against LSU and Shaq. Grant Hill played point guard in that game. I don't recall how long Hurley was out or if Grant continued to play Hurley's position, but that situation was a little different.

IIRC, Duke was 5-1 or 7-1 with Hurley out and G. Hill and K. Blakeney in the backcourt. All the examples are different, of course. The main point is that K was able to bring an injured player back into the line-up without disrupting chemistry much, if at all. Another poster also reminded us of Brand and how/when he came back after his foot injury.

MarkD83
03-15-2011, 10:05 PM
1899


It's been a while.

Here's a little refresher (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3pbLyHCOCo).

The quality isn't great, but it should augment whatever giddiness there already is.

And in case that wasn't enough (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFVj_aQ4h98&feature=related).

After watching these videos why are we so concerned about Kyrie fitting into the team offense or defense. He draws two defenders when he drives, if he is covered he passes to the open man, if they leave him open he hits the open shot, he defends like a mad-man....how can that type of talent NOT fit into anyone's team.

Kedsy
03-15-2011, 10:05 PM
Some caution is prudent, but I think it's mostly with regard to a practice setback, rather than Kyrie's father. I find it highly unlikely that K et al are discussing this in press conference, and subsequently getting it plastered all over ESPN and everywhere else, and that they're then going to go to Kyrie's father later this week and say, "Oh by the way, is it OK if your son plays?"
I'm sure that Drederick has been involved in conversations up to this point, and while he continues to demur, I really, really don't think K would have carried the discussion to this point if there weren't a very good chance of Kyrie suiting up at some time during the NCAAT.

I agree, it only makes sense if they have Drederick's blessing already. But between K's quote about not knowing how Kyrie's body will react to today's practice and Parrish's quote about Kyrie's dad, I'm worried that some of us might be overly optimistic.

I'm perfectly fine with cautiously optimistic, though.

ACniner
03-15-2011, 10:06 PM
Some caution is prudent, but I think it's mostly with regard to a practice setback, rather than Kyrie's father. I find it highly unlikely that K et al are discussing this in press conference, and subsequently getting it plastered all over ESPN and everywhere else, and that they're then going to go to Kyrie's father later this week and say, "Oh by the way, is it OK if your son plays?"
I'm sure that Drederick has been involved in conversations up to this point, and while he continues to demur, I really, really don't think K would have carried the discussion to this point if there weren't a very good chance of Kyrie suiting up at some time during the NCAAT.

I agree, when I first read that I remembered reading something else where his father is definitely "in the loop" on a day-to-day basis. It seems as with most of these sports writers, they are simply using their best guess rather than some inside knowledge about the situation. This was probably discussed at length with KI, the family, staff, and trainers over the weekend when things started looking up. But I am still remaining cautious until the end of the week.

MarkD83
03-15-2011, 10:08 PM
Let's not get ahead of ourselves. A return by Kyrie would certainly be a boon to our chances. But to say it makes the FF "99% likely" is just not even fair to the players, and it only sets you up for disappointment. The NCAA Tournament is a fickle, fickle lady.

Remeber 1992. Duke needed a flawlessly executed end of game shot to beat Ky to make the Final Four.

fgb
03-15-2011, 10:10 PM
Remeber 1992. Duke needed a flawlessly executed end of game shot to beat Ky to make the Final Four.

and that was with hands down the best team in the nation.

MarkD83
03-15-2011, 10:15 PM
Idk, but I was so excited. Now seeing Kyrie's tweet about there is still no gaurantee has me dissapointed. I am very dissapointed and dampened at the moment. Somebody please lift me back up.

Just listen to Coach K's press conference again. Kyrie is practicing with the team and their should be no chemistry issues with putting him back in the line-up. This of course does not mean he will play, but given the drive and enthusiasm we have seen all year from Kyrie, I am worried we might get a technical for too many players on the court, because Kyrie will be so excited to play he just jumps off the bench without checking into the game.

wilson
03-15-2011, 10:19 PM
According to Jason Williams' Twitter page, within the last half hour, "Coach K has confirmed that Kyrie Irving will be playing in the first round of the NCAA Tournament."
http://twitter.com/RealJayWilliams/status/47852397904670720
What, does this guy think he has some kind of inside connection or something?:p

MarkD83
03-15-2011, 10:22 PM
I'm just glad that K let us kick UNC's butt by 17 without being at full force. Imagine what they score would have been Sunday with a healthy in playing shape Kyrie. Next time let's show no mercy.

Coach K is a master psychologist and because Kyrie was not able to play in the ACCT he can point to the rest of the team and say..."You are champions and we did not have to play Kyrie, you most certainly can be champions with him playing."

Exiled_Devil
03-15-2011, 10:22 PM
Should I change my last couple of picks based on this news? Or would that be raising expectations to unrealistic levels?

No. You should have had Duke winning it all even before we knew KI was coming back :o

delfrio
03-15-2011, 10:23 PM
After watching these videos why are we so concerned about Kyrie fitting into the team offense or defense. He draws two defenders when he drives, if he is covered he passes to the open man, if they leave him open he hits the open shot, he defends like a mad-man....how can that type of talent NOT fit into anyone's team.

I think this is the unrealistic optimism people are talking about. He's not going to play like that out of the gate, he probably won't look anything like what we saw before because of conditioning and a different level of competition. Hopefully when Singler says he's not in game shape, Kyle just means not in Singler-no-mere-mortal game shape.

throatybeard
03-15-2011, 10:25 PM
99% likely is not how actual probability works. Even if you figured 95% chance of winning for each of four rounds--a ridiculous assumption--that wouldn't come close to 99%.

MarkD83
03-15-2011, 10:27 PM
I think this is the unrealistic optimism people are talking about. He's not going to play like that out of the gate, he probably won't look anything like what we saw before because of conditioning and a different level of competition. Hopefully when Singler says he's not in game shape, Kyle just means not in Singler-no-mere-mortal game shape.

I will temper my optimism because he may not be in the shape he was early on but even a few minutes at "90% of the early season Irving" is a frightening thought for opponents.

FerryFor50
03-15-2011, 10:28 PM
I think this is the unrealistic optimism people are talking about. He's not going to play like that out of the gate, he probably won't look anything like what we saw before because of conditioning and a different level of competition. Hopefully when Singler says he's not in game shape, Kyle just means not in Singler-no-mere-mortal game shape.

I disagree. He played against NCAA tourny level competition (Mich St and KSU) and did just fine. And his conditioning won't be a factor - he won't be playing a lot of minutes early.

And I think his basketball instincts will be even greater because he's been watching this team all year and seeing what their tendencies are, so he'll be able to step right in and drive and find open guys like early in the year.

Bluedog
03-15-2011, 10:33 PM
I think this is the unrealistic optimism people are talking about. He's not going to play like that out of the gate, he probably won't look anything like what we saw before because of conditioning and a different level of competition. Hopefully when Singler says he's not in game shape, Kyle just means not in Singler-no-mere-mortal game shape.

I took Singler's comment that he wasn't at the endurance level he was previously. He said he "hasn't missed a beat," indicating to me that his speed, agility, and passing ability are pretty much the same, but he can't sustain that level of intensity for as long as he did previously. At least, that's how I read it. :)

I do think some people in the twitter-verse are going a bit overboard with this news. Even with Kyrie, this team needs to play well and with intensity to get to the Final Four. Kyrie doesn't make us an automatic winner in a one-and-done tournament format. Anything can happen. But I still like the news!

By the way, Kyrie did say he's MUCH more intelligent about the game now than he was when he was playing. I don't remember what article it was in, but he said it wasn't even close. He sees the game much more clearly and has a better IQ from having spent three months on the bench as an "assistant coach."

delfrio
03-15-2011, 10:33 PM
I disagree. He played against NCAA tourny level competition (Mich St and KSU) and did just fine. And his conditioning won't be a factor - he won't be playing a lot of minutes early.

And I think his basketball instincts will be even greater because he's been watching this team all year and seeing what their tendencies are, so he'll be able to step right in and drive and find open guys like early in the year.

Well I do like what you're selling, so hope he's feeling it too.

peplaw06
03-15-2011, 10:39 PM
And in case that wasn't enough (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFVj_aQ4h98&feature=related).
1:15 = O face.

mac46
03-15-2011, 10:42 PM
I understand that you guys don't want to get your hopes up about Kyrie's immediate impact, but come on, there is some stinkin thinkin in this thread. There is no reason not to be positive in this situation. Of course, you can't say it definitely gets us into the Final Four, but it certainly can't hurt.

I like to think of getting Kyrie back like winning $100K in the lottery. Is it going to completely change your life? No. Is it going to make things a little easier? Hell yes!

tommy
03-15-2011, 10:45 PM
Sometimes I dare say it is like an Old Man trying to return soup at a Deli. Angry my friends.

POTD!

uh_no
03-15-2011, 10:53 PM
1. Boozer returned in the Sweet 16, and it didn't mess up strategy or chemistry at all. K has experience in exactly this kind of injury situation.

One huge difference here: boozer was not out for nearly as long and was an established part of the team before he got hurt....kyrie played 8 games on a team with 4 other guys who played together last year....reintigrating him will be substantially more difficult than it was with boozer

gumbomoop
03-15-2011, 11:01 PM
IIRC, Boozer did start the second half of the championship game and Coach K was hesitant to do that because he didn't want to mess the chemistry of the team up.

K tells as interesting story [in some interview retrospective I've seen a couple of times] about that delicate issue. K decided he wanted to start Boozer the second half, but was specifically concerned that Boozer would be hesitant, for fear of hurting Casey's feelings. In this interview, K said, or implied, that Carlos really liked Casey. So, as K tells it, he said, in front of the whole team [I think], "Casey, are you all right with Carlos starting this half?" Casey seems to have signed off on this deal....

And this anecdote says a whole lot about the relationship-stuff K notices and teaches.



- it gives us another very good free throw shooter and ball handler in end-of-game situations.

I wouldn't mind seeing Kyle and the Pips revive their act a couple of times in April.

ThePublisher
03-15-2011, 11:12 PM
After hearing this news, anyone who doesn't think Duke is going to run the table, without much trouble is crazy.
Kyrie should be pretty much back to normal playing time by the sweet 16, then it's on. How perfect has this worked out?
I see a run coming like unc had in 09. I really don't think there is any competition that can touch us.

BD80
03-15-2011, 11:14 PM
Whatever minutes Kyrie plays, he will be going full-tilt. We haven't been breaking as well without Kyrie, but he will get the horses running. One, he can dribble down the court faster than most players can run. Two, he can feed the bigs or the wings on the break better than anyone we have. Regardless of how many times he can do this in a row due to his conditioning level, it will put a great deal of pressure on the opposing team and challenge their stamina.

On defense, Kyrie will be able to apply maximum pressure with no fear of fouling out - as he is not expected to play 30 minutes. Opposing point guards will struggle while Kyrie is in.

Last, Kyrie is not just "another" ball-handler in crunch time, he is THE ball-handler, I don't know if there is a better ball-handler in the tournament.

I feel like the holiest of holy days, St. Patty's, came a couple of days early. We add a top NBA pick to a #1 seed. I'll bet there are complaints

NashvilleDevil
03-15-2011, 11:19 PM
After hearing this news, anyone who doesn't think Duke is going to run the table, without much trouble is crazy.
Kyrie should be pretty much back to normal playing time by the sweet 16, then it's on. How perfect has this worked out?
I see a run coming like unc had in 09. I really don't think there is any competition that can touch us.

The schizo Vols still scare me in the 2nd round with or without Kyrie. Get by that game and I think the chances of cutting down the nets are good. But right now that is the game that scares me the most.

Chris Randolph
03-15-2011, 11:20 PM
After hearing this news, anyone who doesn't think Duke is going to run the table, without much trouble is crazy.
Kyrie should be pretty much back to normal playing time by the sweet 16, then it's on. How perfect has this worked out?
I see a run coming like unc had in 09. I really don't think there is any competition that can touch us.

I would say you might be the crazy one, 09 UNC played together basically all year. You don't think there is any competition that can touch us? With Kyrie, Marquette (11 seed), Mich St (10 seed) and Butler (8 seed) all gave us a good run for our money. I'm certain there are teams that can push us to the max, and dare I say beat us

DevilHorns
03-15-2011, 11:22 PM
Jay Williams:

"Coach K has confirmed that Kyrie Irving will be playing in the 1st round of the #NCAA tournament."

http://twitter.com/realjaywilliams

Kedsy
03-15-2011, 11:28 PM
After hearing this news, anyone who doesn't think Duke is going to run the table, without much trouble is crazy.
Kyrie should be pretty much back to normal playing time by the sweet 16, then it's on. How perfect has this worked out?
I see a run coming like unc had in 09. I really don't think there is any competition that can touch us.

Why would you even say something like this? Each year the best team in the tourney has far less than a 50/50 chance to win it all. The best team of the past 30 years, 1991 UNLV, didn't win the championship. Even with Kyrie at full strength, Ohio State and Kansas are certainly capable of "touching" us, not to mention some surprise team that lurks in the shadows like last year's Butler.

I don't even know why I'm responding, because no sane person would truly believe what you're spouting.

wilson
03-15-2011, 11:28 PM
Jeff Goodman at Fox Sports has a new piece (http://msn.foxsports.com/collegebasketball/story/Kyrie-Irving-would-make-Duke-Blue-Devils-title-favorite-if-he-returns-from-toe-injury-for-NCAA-tournament-031511) up with significant inside information regarding today's practice. Among other things, he says Kyrie is perhaps a tick slow(er), but that offensive sets nevertheless had him running the point pretty much exclusively. Also says that he experienced no pain or discomfort after practice, and that, "barring a significant setback," he will play this weekend.

-bdbd
03-15-2011, 11:28 PM
I think this really helps Duke on the defensive end - by giving a safety buffer if Curry or Smith get into foul trouble by allowing Duke to stay aggressive. Duke won this weekend because the upped the defensive pressure. This is what they need to do in the tourney. If Irving can give minutes- it allows Duke to pressure more and still have excellent scorers on the floor at any one time. I am pretty sure Kyrie will not start or play significant minutes in the first couple of games- but he may be on the floor during crunch time if he continues to progress. A few minutes of Kyrie could mean a lot to keeping Nolan fresh!


I think it helps us in many aspects, not just defense:

- it gives us more depth, so we can play pressure defense
- it makes guard foul trouble less of a concern, because now we have four guys capable of running the point if needed
- it gives us another guy who can create his own shot or create for others
- it gives us the ability to put three guys who are strong at attacking off the dribble on the floor at the same time
- it gives us another good perimeter shooter
- it gives us another guy capable of playing pressure defense
- it takes pressure off of Smith and Singler to carry the scoring load
- it allows us to let Smith sit for a few minutes a game (if needed) without experiencing a dropoff at the playmaker spot

Honestly, a healthy Irving makes us so much more dangerous than we already were.

Here's another link on the subject:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/basketball/ncaa/mens-tournament-2011/03/15/kyrie.irving.duke.practices.ap/index.html?eref=sihp

Wow - just imagine how much better we'd have been seeded if he was healthy all season??! ........... Uh, wait... :rolleyes:

Yes, it is hard to temper our enthusiasm. But don't be surprised if he only gets maybe 10 minutes or less vs Hampton. This is just a "get your feet wet" game for him. And I'd be shocked if he got as much as 20 minutes vs Mich./Tenn, "if we're fortunate to win vs Hampton." This is MUCH more important if/when we get to the Sweet 16 and, hopefully, the Elite 8. Just don't expect him to be anywhere near carrying this team. But to Duke Lifer and CDu's points, he certainly could afford us a nice change of pace when he goes in, and provides that extra insurance regarding foul trouble and other player injuries. I think it makes other guys better, which is very important (Mason's PPG expectation just went up several points!). It certainly helps with defense in several ways. But in close games, I too would expect to see some Kyrie in crunch time (especially if we were trailing). But just don't expect 25+ minutes per game for the for the first few rounds...

This news is just toe, toe good!! :D


-BD "I wonder how many erasers just hit bracket-pool pick sheets" -BD

Greg_Newton
03-15-2011, 11:30 PM
http://msn.foxsports.com/collegebasketball/story/Kyrie-Irving-would-make-Duke-Blue-Devils-title-favorite-if-he-returns-from-toe-injury-for-NCAA-tournament-031511


"His step is a tad slower, but he was hitting everything and is already taking minutes from (Seth) Curry and (Andre) Dawkins," a source in attendance said. "And Duke is running Nolan (Smith) and Kyle (Singler) off the ball exclusively."

"Personally, I don’t think he’s missed a beat," Singler told reporters after practice. "He’s done a great job rehabbing. He’s a little bit out of shape, but that’s to be expected."

It's all great, but the bolded is especially informative. Sounds like Kyrie will probably have the reins again whenever(/if ever) he's in games.

ThePublisher
03-15-2011, 11:36 PM
I would say you might be the crazy one, 09 UNC played together basically all year. You don't think there is any competition that can touch us? With Kyrie, Marquette (11 seed), Mich St (10 seed) and Butler (8 seed) all gave us a good run for our money. I'm certain there are teams that can push us to the max, and dare I say beat us

Ye of little faith. You have to believe in duKe, with the K being coach K first, and number 1 Kyrie second.

K will masterfully reinsert Kyrie into the starting lineup and use him to apply insane pressure defense to the likes of which no team we play will have ever seen. Sullinger can't beat you if he can't get the ball, or beat mp1, mp2 or RK down the court on the break.

I really think that we derailed both K-state and Michigan state's season. I have M St. going to the final 4 and think they are a very good team that has just had issues because they got destroyed in a huge game by Duke.

The only game I'm concerned with before the final 4 is uconn if they make it that far. You can't count a player like walker out of any game. He could randomly go off. Then I could see ohio st/syracuse being challenging, but I really think we can have our way with both of them.

We're just too well coached, too talented and too deep. Unstoppable.

wilson
03-15-2011, 11:38 PM
Unstoppable.Have you ever watched the NCAA Tournament? This word is literally never applicable. Never.

ThePublisher
03-15-2011, 11:42 PM
First 8 games of the season + level of play in ACC championship = unstoppable.

DevilHorns
03-15-2011, 11:43 PM
First 8 games of the season + level of play in ACC championship = unstoppable.

1999.

That is all.

SuperTurkey
03-15-2011, 11:44 PM
First 8 games of the season + level of play in ACC championship = unstoppable.

I'm not sure you understand how math works, either. :p

wilson
03-15-2011, 11:45 PM
First 8 games of the season + level of play in ACC championship = unstoppable.


1999.

That is all.DevilHorns, you are absolutely correct.
Publisher, you couldn't be wronger.

gep
03-15-2011, 11:45 PM
The team cannot revolve around Kyrie again, he is in a position where he is going to have to find his own fit - and very quickly. From what we have seen of Kyrie, I feel confident he is up to the mental challenge of being a role guy now and finding his spot.

Kyrie said as much. He said his basketball IQ increased alot... watching from the bench.


He's a freshman who never played in a conference game and we saw what happened to Andre's production once conference play started.

Maybe never playing in a conference game is really a non-issue. Even as a freshman (Andre or Kyrie), conference teams "know" Duke, Coach K, tendencies, etc...


I'm ecstatic for Kyrie, and excited as anything for our team. I have no further coherent thoughts. I just can't wait to see him in uniform, to see how Coach K works him back into the lineup, and I'm hoping for the best.

same here...


is for him to come off the bench, primarily because all the other guys on the team have learned to play as a team in a style that does not revolve around him. At this point, he needs to fit into what they have built, I just don't think there is time for the other 7 or 8 guys who will play in a game to adjust to another game.

What I recall, Coach K told Carlos the *he* had to fit into the team... the team has changed. I expect the same for Kyrie. But with Kyrie's enthusiasm and IQ, I don't see this as a hinderance at all.



I disagree. He played against NCAA tourny level coompetition (Mich St and KSU) and did just fine. And his conditioning won't be a factor - he won't be playing a lot of minutes early.

And I think his basketball instincts will be even greater because he's been watching this team all year and seeing what their tendencies are, so he'll be able to step right in and drive and find open guys like early in the year.

I think he'll play limited minutes... which will allow him to go full-speed while in the game. Good luck to the rest of the field...

jafarr1
03-15-2011, 11:51 PM
As good as Kyrie is, he essentially stopped basketball activities for three months. There is going to be rust there, and the chemistry that he had developed with his teammates will need to be re-developed.

There is no doubting that this is a positive development, but don't be surprised if we see some hitches when Kyrie gets on the floor. (It does feel so good to type "when".)

gcashwell
03-15-2011, 11:54 PM
Just to be sure everybody knows, jay Williams did go back on his earlier tweet. He now says kyrie has a good chance.

wilson
03-15-2011, 11:56 PM
Just to be sure everybody knows, jay Williams did go back on his earlier tweet. He now says kyrie has a good chance.But he also says he'd be "shocked if [Kyrie] did not play in the opening round."
I'm willing to bet that Jay's program sources are pretty good...

ThePublisher
03-15-2011, 11:56 PM
"If he can find his comfort zone on the court," said Kansas State coach Frank Martin, whose team lost to Irving and Duke back in late-November. "They’re completely different. They’re near to being unguardable."

And by unguardable, I'm positive Frank meant unstoppable.

NashvilleDevil
03-16-2011, 12:02 AM
"If he can find his comfort zone on the court," said Kansas State coach Frank Martin, whose team lost to Irving and Duke back in late-November. "They’re completely different. They’re near to being unguardable."

And by unguardable, I'm positive Frank meant unstoppable.

No he meant unguardable. The shots still need to go in

fgb
03-16-2011, 12:10 AM
whatever kyrie brings, it sounds like he may very well be back. and that's better than not being back.

Namtilal
03-16-2011, 12:30 AM
He will have to develop his confidence all over again. It may take a few games for him to trust his body, or it may take the entire tourney. Or he might be the same old Kyrie from his first minute.

ojaidave
03-16-2011, 12:43 AM
I completely agree with the posters that urge a bit of caution. Even a 90% chance per game works out to about 53% chance to win the whole thing. A couple of other posters have pointed towards the '91 UNLV and '99 Duke teams as examples that there are no sure things. One difference between this team and the '91 & '99 teams is that those teams had dominated all season long and when tournament time came around were expected to win easily. Over the first four rounds of the tournament, UNLV outscored their opponents by an average of almost 18 points a game and then faced a Duke team they had wiped the floor with a year before. Duke in 99 was even more dominant during the tournament, beating their first 5 opponents by an average of 25 points! This Duke team was beaten soundly a little over a week ago, so they know they can lose, but are also playing with such purpose that they looked like a number one seed two days ago. We won't have to deal with complacency with this group because of the seniors on our team and the effort that will be required to fold Kyrie back into the mix. What an exciting mix.

All the above is a long way of saying that though anything can happen, this team has the pieces it needs to be considered the tournament favorite, as opposed to just another top contender.

BigZ
03-16-2011, 02:48 AM
So the question is will he start or come off the bench? I say he should come off the bench within the first 3 minutes of the game.

DevilWearsPrada
03-16-2011, 03:45 AM
So the question is will he start or come off the bench? I say he should come off the bench within the first 3 minutes of the game.

My personal opinion (and I said this during the ACC tourney), since Kyrie warmed up with the team several days in Gboro, was that he would play during the NCAA run. I think Coach will start the 5, and then rotate Kyrie in off the bench, bringing Seth in and rotating Kyrie in the game. I think Kyrie will play 5 - 6 minutes each half at least for this first weekend. Thats my personal opinion. Not that these 2 games, are cupcake games, but just to get adjusted to really playing in a REAL GAME, and not practice.

I read online, a couple of weeks ago, that NIKE was making a special shoe for Kyrie, where the toe will be protected, and can not bend like it did, when he got hurt in Dec. I hope those Nike shoes, have steel toes!

Anyway, I cant wait to see Kyrie hit the floor in Charlotte on Friday!

and as always,

Lets go Duke!

-jk
03-16-2011, 06:38 AM
I certainly hope that Kyrie can return, put in meaningful minutes, and not miss a beat. I truly do. The "what-ifs" of a full season of Kyrie tantalize.

But I don't expect it. I certainly don't expect Kyrie's working back in to make us prohibitive favorites to win the whole thing.

This thread is getting, well - as Greenspan once described the housing market - "frothy". (And we know how that turned out.)

Going into this tournament, with or without Kyrie, we have a good chance of going deep. So do several other teams. It's still a one-and-done tourney, though. Kyrie's possible return to something approaching the form he had in the fall improves our odds, but we're still unlikely to win it all. We'd be unlikely to win it all if he'd played the entire year.

Everyone, please go back and reread Al Featherston's cautionary tale (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/articles/?p=39189). If you're predicting that Duke is likely to win it all, you have some 'splainin to do.

Here's what I see:

Kyrie is a freshman point guard who's played in the grand total of 8 games in his collegiate career. He showed great promise, though his stats weren't awe-inspiring. If he plays, he'll be playing under the brightest lights the game provides. Look down the road at how hard freshman PGs have it in tourneys. The pressure is intense.

Duke is a very different team than we were when he last played. Yes, he's watched from the bench. Yes, he's studied film. Gone to practice and team meetings. Mentally, he's been part of the team the whole way. But that's nowhere close to jumping in and doing it. All the instincts we trained for in the fall no longer apply. We haven't played the Duke 1.0 system in three months.

The Duke 2.0 system worked almost perfectly Sunday. And now we're confidently predicting he'll just step in, we'll pick up the pace, and we'll be much better? I don't see it as likely. Not impossible; just not likely.

I like the depth he'll add, the flexibility he'll give K. I'm worried our recently emerging excellence will have a few hiccups along the way - and a mistimed hiccup will send us packing.

I do like our odds. I had us winning it all in my brackets before this news broke. (I always have us winning it all in my brackets, though.) K's the best at managing a team's dynamics under duress - he has a 4 year degree in it.

I'm quite excited, looking forward to the tourney possibilities with Kyrie. But I'm not irrational. Let's temper our expectations just a bit.

-jk

dukeballboy88
03-16-2011, 06:40 AM
I would start him against Hampton.

lotusland
03-16-2011, 06:46 AM
At the time of his injury, I feel that Kyrie was our best player. He's a projected Top 3 pick FOR A REASON.

I'm not going to make an argument that Kyrie isn't/wasn't very good but I don't think NBA draft status determines who is the best college player. There are plenty of examples that lesson that argument. I agree with coach K and Roy that in the post season experience can trump raw talent. See UK last year for a perfect example. They had 4 players who would have been drafted before Kyle or Nolan if they had declared last year. I never felt Kyrie was our best player but picking between Nolan, Kyle and Kyrie is a good problem to have.

OZZIE4DUKE
03-16-2011, 06:48 AM
Against Hampton, I expect that Kyrie will be the first sub off the bench, coming in at the first media time out. He'll play that segment, or until he feels the need to come out (or K sees/feels the need to take him out) before the next media time out. If all goes well, he'll probably alternate segments throughout the game, getting about 16 minutes or however it works out. Sunday's game, should we advance, would probably bring a similar playing pattern with perhaps just a few more minutes, depending on how much soreness he has, not in his toe but in his body as a whole from playing his first game in three months. I'm sure all us weekend warriors can appreciate that... :cool:

moonpie23
03-16-2011, 06:52 AM
i trust k....he'll bring KI in when the thinks it's the time, and then he'll take him out when he thinks it's time...
1900

devildeac
03-16-2011, 06:59 AM
Have you ever watched the NCAA Tournament? This word is literally never applicable. Never.

Unless your name is Jack Givens.

Never say never.

lotusland
03-16-2011, 07:06 AM
1999.

That is all.

Exactly. That was one of the most if not the single most talented Duke team ever. Brand, Battier, Maggette, Avery, Langdon, Nate, Carrowell, Burgis and Domzalski. Were any of our scholarship players not a McDonald's AA? Got beat by a very good but less talented UConn team. I think Duke wins 7 out of 10 against that team but it doesn't matter because it is single elimination.

dukebluesincebirth
03-16-2011, 07:52 AM
"We'd be unlikely to win it all if he'd played the entire year."- jk

Really? Why?
I agree with much of what you said, but I can't agree with this comment. I think we would've been the heavy favorite to win it all if he had played the entire year. The main reason for that in my opinion was his defending of the opposing team's PG. I don't think the PG's that hurt us in Tallahassee, St.John's, or Chapel Hill would have had nearly the performances against us with Kyrie hawking the ball.

thewoosh31
03-16-2011, 07:55 AM
Exactly. That was one of the most if not the single most talented Duke team ever. Brand, Battier, Maggette, Avery, Langdon, Nate, Carrowell, Burgis and Domzalski. Were any of our scholarship players not a McDonald's AA? Got beat by a very good but less talented UConn team. I think Duke wins 7 out of 10 against that team but it doesn't matter because it is single elimination.

Yeah talent wise, that team is/was off the charts. But I feel like their chemistry was lacking in comparison to last year's team and maybe even this year's team bc they didn't suffer together during the season to become super determined to win the championship. I still remember being in Cameron for the uconn game and how the only sounds you could hear after the game were people crying. Never ever want to go through that again.

El_Diablo
03-16-2011, 07:58 AM
"We'd be unlikely to win it all if he'd played the entire year."- jk

Really? Why?

Because every year, even the favorite has just a 25-30% of winning it all.

CDu
03-16-2011, 08:00 AM
"We'd be unlikely to win it all if he'd played the entire year."- jk

Really? Why?
I agree with much of what you said, but I can't agree with this comment. I think we would've been the heavy favorite to win it all if he had played the entire year. The main reason for that in my opinion was his defending of the opposing team's PG. I don't think the PG's that hurt us in Tallahassee, St.John's, or Chapel Hill would have had nearly the performances against us with Kyrie hawking the ball.

Because every team is unlikely to win it all. There probably hasn't been a team in history that had a greater than 50% likelihood of winning the championship going into the tournament. The likelihood of any particular team winning it is less than 50%.

If Irving had played all season, we would probably be the favorite to win it. But there's a difference between being the favorite to win it and likely to win it. The field is virtually always more likely to win than any particular team - even the favorite.

David Bunkley
03-16-2011, 08:00 AM
No matter how you slice it, we will be bringing 3 guys off of the bench (Kyrie, Ryan, & Dre) that could start almost anywhere in the country...I'll take it.

LET'S GO DUKE!!!

dyedwab
03-16-2011, 08:01 AM
"We'd be unlikely to win it all if he'd played the entire year."- jk

Really? Why?
I agree with much of what you said, but I can't agree with this comment. I think we would've been the heavy favorite to win it all if he had played the entire year. The main reason for that in my opinion was his defending of the opposing team's PG. I don't think the PG's that hurt us in Tallahassee, St.John's, or Chapel Hill would have had nearly the performances against us with Kyrie hawking the ball.

We'd be unlikely to win it all even if he had played the whole year, because no team is ever "likely" to win it all. As an earlier poster pointed out, even if we had a 90% chance of winning each game we played, that we would have only a 54% of winning it all. That's just reality - even prohibitive favorites are "likely" to win it all. The field is always more likely than any one team, no matter how good.

That said, if Kyrie plays, we have added an elite level talent to a team with the ACC Player of the Year, last year's Final Four MVP, and a supporting cast who, imho, is playing collectively the best basketball of their careers.

So, while I wouldn't call our win likely, I'll take us over anybody else :-)

Let's Go Duke!

slower
03-16-2011, 08:14 AM
First 8 games of the season + level of play in ACC championship = unstoppable.

Maybe you just need to take a deep breath. Maybe a few.

AsiaMinor
03-16-2011, 08:19 AM
Kyrie makes Andre and Seth better.
More threes means more points.
More points mean more wins.
Toe-tally awesome.

flyingdutchdevil
03-16-2011, 08:21 AM
We'd be unlikely to win it all even if he had played the whole year, because no team is ever "likely" to win it all. As an earlier poster pointed out, even if we had a 90% chance of winning each game we played, that we would have only a 54% of winning it all. That's just reality - even prohibitive favorites are "likely" to win it all. The field is always more likely than any one team, no matter how good.

That said, if Kyrie plays, we have added an elite level talent to a team with the ACC Player of the Year, last year's Final Four MVP, and a supporting cast who, imho, is playing collectively the best basketball of their careers.

So, while I wouldn't call our win likely, I'll take us over anybody else :-)

Let's Go Duke!

Yup. Let's just play with a little math here (NOTE: Numbers are ball park figures, not Vegas. Also, I think they are incredibly optimistic):

With Kyrie:
1st: 99%
2nd: 95%
SS: 95%
EE: 90%
FF: 80%
NC: 75%
Odds to win: 99% x 95% x 95% x 90% x 80% x 75% = 48%

Without Kyrie:
1st: 99%
2nd: 90%
SS: 80%
EE: 75%
FF: 60%
NC: 50%
Odds to win: 99% x 90% x 80% x 75% x 60% x 50% = 16%

MChambers
03-16-2011, 08:46 AM
Maybe you just need to take a deep breath. Maybe a few.

Some folks are going asymptoe-tic here.

Having Kyrie back is a good thing, but mostly because this team was already very good and we don't need him to be the player he was in early December. We just need him to play 15-20 minutes of pressure defense and be a good point guard on offense, just not the man.

Even if he fits in perfectly and is physically near what he was in December, I'd say Duke has no more than 20% chance of winning, and that's probably on the high side.

hq2
03-16-2011, 08:56 AM
Just cause he's back (some) I wouldn't hang the banners yet. There's a lot of unknowns;
conditioning, chemistry, style of play, etc. I'd say the closest analogy would be the Boozer injury in 2001, which forced the team to change it's style, and ultimately resulted in an N.C. when he came back. We'll have to see how (much) Kyrie plays this weekend, and how well he fits in to the (revised) team.

Jeff Frosh
03-16-2011, 08:59 AM
Some folks are going asymptoe-tic here.

Having Kyrie back is a good thing, but mostly because this team was already very good and we don't need him to be the player he was in early December. We just need him to play 15-20 minutes of pressure defense and be a good point guard on offense, just not the man.

Even if he fits in perfectly and is physically near what he was in December, I'd say Duke has no more than 20% chance of winning, and that's probably on the high side.

Current odds to win 2011 NCAA Men's Basketball Championship at sportsbook.com:

Ohio St.: +350, which equates to 22%
Duke: +450, which equates to 18%
Kansas +450

I am not sure if these odds have changed since yesterday's announcement regarding Kyrie. In any event, I like us at 4-1/2 to 1.

hedevil
03-16-2011, 09:05 AM
Jay Bilas just said on Mike and Mike that if Irving plays close to how he did early this year that Duke is the new favorite in the tournament. I hope Kyrie can get it going quickly.

Class of '94
03-16-2011, 09:05 AM
Kyrie makes Andre and Seth better.
More threes means more points.
More points mean more wins.
Toe-tally awesome.

If it hasn't already been said before, I think the biggest effect Kyrie will have will be on Mason and Miles. While I think both have done a much better job of late adjusting to Duke 2.0 (especially Miles), I think their games (especially Mason's) are more taylored for an uptempo style; and I think we could see Mason put up numbers in the NCAAT that might be in the ball park of the numbers he put up against Marquette the more Kyrie is on the floor with him.

loran16
03-16-2011, 09:07 AM
Yup. Let's just play with a little math here (NOTE: Numbers are ball park figures, not Vegas. Also, I think they are incredibly optimistic):

With Kyrie:
1st: 99%
2nd: 95%
SS: 95%
EE: 90%
FF: 80%
NC: 75%
Odds to win: 99% x 95% x 95% x 90% x 80% x 75% = 48%

Without Kyrie:
1st: 99%
2nd: 90%
SS: 80%
EE: 75%
FF: 60%
NC: 50%
Odds to win: 99% x 90% x 80% x 75% x 60% x 50% = 16%

The first numbers are way way too high. 75% win percentages are for teams clearly on different levels. 80% even more (we're talking Duke @ NC State when we say 80s). Regardless of whether we have Irving, the opposition in the S16, E8, F4, and NC games are way better than that (S16 only if Texas makes it).

JamminJoe
03-16-2011, 09:09 AM
Championship or not, I’m just glad Kyrie is back. This season would not have felt complete without him. K must be loving the challenge of putting this together. If we can get through these next 2 weekends (no easy task of course), we’ll be building incredible momentum for the final four.

The timing of this is great, since a lot of experts have put in their picks already. Not being picked by everyone to win it all relieves the pressure. The losses the past 2 years in February have done a lot to relieve the pressure going into the tournament. And the team feels a lot more loose and having fun, as opposed to the years before such as the JJ years when the pressure just kept building throughout the season and seemed unbearable come tourney time.

rotogod00
03-16-2011, 09:11 AM
Yup. Let's just play with a little math here (NOTE: Numbers are ball park figures, not Vegas. Also, I think they are incredibly optimistic):

With Kyrie:
1st: 99%
2nd: 95%
SS: 95%
EE: 90%
FF: 80%
NC: 75%
Odds to win: 99% x 95% x 95% x 90% x 80% x 75% = 48%

Without Kyrie:
1st: 99%
2nd: 90%
SS: 80%
EE: 75%
FF: 60%
NC: 50%
Odds to win: 99% x 90% x 80% x 75% x 60% x 50% = 16%

Yeah, personally thinking it's a bit optimistic (esp. the With Kyrie scenario). I see it more like:

With Kyrie:
1st: 99.9%
2nd: 90%
SS: 80%
EE: 75%
FF: 60%
NC: 55%
Odds to win: 17.8%

Without Kyrie:
1st: 99.9%
2nd: 85%
SS: 75%
EE: 70%
FF: 55%
NC: 50%
Odds to win: 12.3%

BlueDevilCorvette!
03-16-2011, 09:14 AM
Wow, with Kyrie, that's just another weapon to unleash. Opposing teams are going to have to choose their poison...Nolan/Kyrie/Andre/Seth/Singler...who do you stop? I love being a Duke fan!

UrinalCake
03-16-2011, 09:22 AM
Kyrie's message to the rest of the college basketball world:


http://en.sevenload.com/videos/QEE3RYz-Billy-madison-dodgeball

UrinalCake
03-16-2011, 09:25 AM
Jeff Goodman at Fox Sports has a new piece (http://msn.foxsports.com/collegebasketball/story/Kyrie-Irving-would-make-Duke-Blue-Devils-title-favorite-if-he-returns-from-toe-injury-for-NCAA-tournament-031511) up with significant inside information regarding today's practice.

Great stuff! I'm officially giddy. But I was a little surprised at this quote from the article:

"Irving’s presence on the court also allows Singler to go back to power forward – a move that makes the team more effective."

Yikes! I thought we had finally put that discussion to rest...

SuperTurkey
03-16-2011, 09:34 AM
I still remember being in Cameron for the uconn game and how the only sounds you could hear after the game were people crying. Never ever want to go through that again.

Agreed. Worst moment of my college career by far.

InSpades
03-16-2011, 09:41 AM
Great stuff! I'm officially giddy. But I was a little surprised at this quote from the article:

"Irving’s presence on the court also allows Singler to go back to power forward – a move that makes the team more effective."

Yikes! I thought we had finally put that discussion to rest...

Giddy is a good word for this feeling!

I think Kyle will natuarlly spend some more time at the 4 with Kyrie back... simply because Seth has to play (as does Nolan, Kyrie and Kyle). He will also obviously play a lot at the 3. Nothing new here...

It almost seems unfair... Duke could have the top 2 guards in the NCAA tournament. I know I wouldn't trade Nolan for anyone... and I certainly wouldn't trade pre-injury Kyrie for anyone.

My prediction... Kyrie is starting by the Sweet 16.

NYBri
03-16-2011, 09:46 AM
I do like our odds. I had us winning it all in my brackets before this news broke. (I always have us winning it all in my brackets, though.) K's the best at managing a team's dynamics under duress - he has a 4 year degree in it.

He's has a 30 year degree in it.

MChambers
03-16-2011, 09:48 AM
Great stuff! I'm officially giddy. But I was a little surprised at this quote from the article:

"Irving’s presence on the court also allows Singler to go back to power forward – a move that makes the team more effective."

Yikes! I thought we had finally put that discussion to rest...

Yep. About as accurate as Seth Davis saying that Irving was never close to returning. Why do we read what these guys write?

Indoor66
03-16-2011, 09:50 AM
We'd be unlikely to win it all even if he had played the whole year, because no team is ever "likely" to win it all. As an earlier poster pointed out, even if we had a 90% chance of winning each game we played, that we would have only a 54% of winning it all. That's just reality - even prohibitive favorites are "likely" to win it all. The field is always more likely than any one team, no matter how good.

That said, if Kyrie plays, we have added an elite level talent to a team with the ACC Player of the Year, last year's Final Four MVP, and a supporting cast who, imho, is playing collectively the best basketball of their careers.

So, while I wouldn't call our win likely, I'll take us over anybody else :-)

Let's Go Duke!

I understand the statistical approach and all but I look at on the basis that we will be favored to win each game. We only have to win one game - the next one. We can do that. That is why I am very optimistic (with no "toe") for the tourney.

slower
03-16-2011, 09:51 AM
Among some of my Tarhole friends on Facebook, the new meme is how horrible Coach K is for "forcing" Kyrie to play against the wishes of his family, just to win another championship. Pathetic and predictable, as usual.

Channing
03-16-2011, 09:53 AM
(1) giving Duke a 80-90 percent chance to win the second round game seems very optimistic. Tenn beat Pitt @ Pitt this year and UMich gave OSU as much as they could handle. I wouldn't say we are head and shoulders above either of those teams.

(2) Is our defense a little exposed with Nolan, Kyrie, and Seth all on the court at the same time? Thats three guys in the 6-6'2 range. While Seth has been brilliant the last half of the year, I think we may also see some Dawkins as he seems to have a little more size to guard opposing 3s.

tbyers11
03-16-2011, 09:54 AM
Yeah, personally thinking it's a bit optimistic (esp. the With Kyrie scenario). I see it more like:

With Kyrie:
1st: 99.9%
2nd: 90%
SS: 80%
EE: 75%
FF: 60%
NC: 55%
Odds to win: 17.8%

Without Kyrie:
1st: 99.9%
2nd: 85%
SS: 75%
EE: 70%
FF: 55%
NC: 50%
Odds to win: 12.3%

Here is a link (http://www.basketballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=673) to Pomeroy's log5 odds for every team in the field based on his ratings and the draw. The numbers represent the % chance of reaching each round. Pre-Kyrie he had Duke as the 2nd favorite (behind Ohio State) to win it all. Even being the second favorite only puts Duke it at 15.3%.


Rd3 Sweet16 Elite8 Final4 Final Champ 1 in...
1. 1E Ohio St. 98.9 83.2 62.0 47.7 30.9 21.6 5
2. 1W Duke 98.3 84.5 56.5 40.3 23.5 15.3 7
3. 1SW Kansas 96.9 72.6 52.4 35.0 23.6 12.4 8
4. 1SE Pittsburgh 95.1 76.5 47.4 31.8 16.8 7.5 13


A modest Kyrie-bump to ~20% basically only increases our chances of winning it all from 1-in-6.5 to 1-in-5. The return of Kyrie will undoubtedly make us better but the 6 game single elimination tourney makes nothing close to a certainty.

NYBri
03-16-2011, 10:02 AM
We should all remember that Nolan has stepped up his game incredibly. He his ability to drive and finish now rivals KI's, IMHO...so bringing Kyrie in doesn't add a new dimension...it adds a second person to break down the defense.

I'm glad Kyrie will rejoin the team, but I am so impressed with Nolan that I had no problem with this team in the NCAA without Kyrie.

UrinalCake
03-16-2011, 10:05 AM
Is our defense a little exposed with Nolan, Kyrie, and Seth all on the court at the same time? Thats three guys in the 6-6'2 range.

It all depends on who we're playing, but with those three guys in we'll undoubtedly pressure the ball, deny passes and try to disrupt the other team's offense. If we can do that while scoring on our end, we'll force our opponent to change THEIR lineup to match up with us.

The biggest risk in bringing Kyrie back IMO is that it takes minutes away from Curry and Dawkins, both of whom are coming on strong and playing well right now. Coach K will have to find away to keep them equally as effective while playing fewer minutes and slightly different roles.

dukebluesincebirth
03-16-2011, 10:05 AM
Quote Originally Posted by dukebluesincebirth View Post
"We'd be unlikely to win it all if he'd played the entire year."- jk

Really? Why?
I agree with much of what you said, but I can't agree with this comment. I think we would've been the heavy favorite to win it all if he had played the entire year. The main reason for that in my opinion was his defending of the opposing team's PG. I don't think the PG's that hurt us in Tallahassee, St.John's, or Chapel Hill would have had nearly the performances against us with Kyrie hawking the ball.

CDu
Because every team is unlikely to win it all. There probably hasn't been a team in history that had a greater than 50% likelihood of winning the championship going into the tournament. The likelihood of any particular team winning it is less than 50%.

If Irving had played all season, we would probably be the favorite to win it. But there's a difference between being the favorite to win it and likely to win it. The field is virtually always more likely to win than any particular team - even the favorite.


Ok. I get it. Duke is the most likely team to win it all with Kyrie but not likely to win it all with Kyrie. Fair enough.

OZZIE4DUKE
03-16-2011, 10:06 AM
I understand the statistical approach and all but I look at on the basis that we will be favored to win each game. We only have to win one game - the next one. We can do that. That is why I am very optimistic (with no "toe") for the tourney.
Actually, we only have to win the game we are playing in NOW. Don't worry about the next one until you get there - that's looking ahead and never turns out well. Although I suspect that's what you really meant to say.

Friday evening, after what we hope is Kyrie's successful (and victorious) return to the court, I will change from being opTOEmistic to optimistic! :cool:

juise
03-16-2011, 10:12 AM
Kyrie's message to the rest of the college basketball world:


http://en.sevenload.com/videos/QEE3RYz-Billy-madison-dodgeball

That's what I said (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?24187-The-Kyrie-Irving-Toe-Rehab-Vigil&p=487801#post487801)! :)

Kedsy
03-16-2011, 10:18 AM
"If he can find his comfort zone on the court," said Kansas State coach Frank Martin, whose team lost to Irving and Duke back in late-November. "They’re completely different. They’re near to being unguardable."

And by unguardable, I'm positive Frank meant unstoppable.

I don't think so at all. He meant we're very formidable on offense, which we would be with a full strength Kyrie. There's still the defensive end of the floor and there's still the random factors that are difficult to control.

No college basketball team is "unstoppable."

Duke31122
03-16-2011, 10:24 AM
(1) giving Duke a 80-90 percent chance to win the second round game seems very optimistic. Tenn beat Pitt @ Pitt this year and UMich gave OSU as much as they could handle. I wouldn't say we are head and shoulders above either of those teams.

(2) Is our defense a little exposed with Nolan, Kyrie, and Seth all on the court at the same time? Thats three guys in the 6-6'2 range. While Seth has been brilliant the last half of the year, I think we may also see some Dawkins as he seems to have a little more size to guard opposing 3s.

As far as Tennessee we can't look past them. That said a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while. We are a much better team and I say team not individuals. We will be fine I'm not worried Duke won't over look them.

dukebluesincebirth
03-16-2011, 10:28 AM
I don't think so at all. He meant we're very formidable on offense, which we would be with a full strength Kyrie. There's still the defensive end of the floor and there's still the random factors that are difficult to control.

No college basketball team is "unstoppable."

Actually I think Kyrie's most profound impact may be on the defensive end. What I remember most about him is his hawking, on-the-ball defense. It can really change a game by locking down an opposing team's PG.

Kedsy
03-16-2011, 10:28 AM
If it hasn't already been said before, I think the biggest effect Kyrie will have will be on Mason and Miles. While I think both have done a much better job of late adjusting to Duke 2.0 (especially Miles), I think their games (especially Mason's) are more taylored for an uptempo style; and I think we could see Mason put up numbers in the NCAAT that might be in the ball park of the numbers he put up against Marquette the more Kyrie is on the floor with him.

I agree with your general premise -- Kyrie's return will make Mason and Miles better -- but disagree that Mason will in general put up numbers anywhere close to the Marquette game. He may have one game like that, but not more than that. In the Marquette game for whatever reason, we chose to Make Mason our primary scoring option, and he delivered. But unless there's a specific reason to do so in a particular game, he will remain our 4th or 5th offensive option on the floor during the NCAAT.

juise
03-16-2011, 10:28 AM
No college basketball team* is "unstoppable."

*Assumes team does not have Patrick Davidson on its roster


Fixed. ;)

Kedsy
03-16-2011, 10:29 AM
Actually I think Kyrie's most profound impact may be on the defensive end. What I remember most about him is his hawking, on-the-ball defense. It can really change a game by locking down an opposing team's PG.

I don't disagree with you, depending on how K re-integrates him into the team. I was responding to a post that equated "unguardable" with "unstoppable," hence my reference to defense.

timmy c
03-16-2011, 10:32 AM
Actually, we only have to win the game we are playing in NOW. Don't worry about the next one until you get there - that's looking ahead and never turns out well. Although I suspect that's what you really meant to say.

Friday evening, after what we hope is Kyrie's successful (and victorious) return to the court, I will change from being opTOEmistic to optimistic! :cool:

wait.. are you changing to OpTIMistic for me?

burns15
03-16-2011, 10:35 AM
I don't disagree with you, depending on how K re-integrates him into the team. I was responding to a post that equated "unguardable" with "unstoppable," hence my reference to defense.

I believe K has said that w/Kyrie in the early-season that their perimeter was unguardable... now what that means is up for grabs

Kedsy
03-16-2011, 10:39 AM
We should all remember that Nolan has stepped up his game incredibly. He his ability to drive and finish now rivals KI's, IMHO...so bringing Kyrie in doesn't add a new dimension...it adds a second person to break down the defense.

I'm glad Kyrie will rejoin the team, but I am so impressed with Nolan that I had no problem with this team in the NCAA without Kyrie.

I agree with your latter statement in that I was quite content with our non-Kyrie Duke team and excited about our prospects in the NCAAT without Kyrie.

However, I think bringing in Kyrie does add another dimension. If you're planning for the Duke team we've had for most of the year, you make a plan to stop Nolan -- either putting your lockdown defender on him or double-team him, or both -- and you make sure you have an athletic defender to shadow Kyle. You dare us to win from the three-point line. Or to dump it down to our bigs, which you don't really expect us to do. But stick Kyrie into the lineup and you're flummoxed. If your best defender is on Nolan and/or you double-team him, Kyrie will kill you. If your best defender is not on Nolan and you don't double-team him, Nolan will kill you. If you try to focus on both Nolan and Kyrie, then (a) you probably won't succeed; and (b) Kyle will kill you. To me, that sounds like a "new dimension."

Kedsy
03-16-2011, 10:41 AM
I believe K has said that w/Kyrie in the early-season that their perimeter was unguardable... now what that means is up for grabs

The original quote was from Frank Martin. A poster stated that when Martin said Duke was near to "unguardable" with Kyrie, he meant the team was "unstoppable." I disagreed.

oldnavy
03-16-2011, 10:41 AM
I don't think so at all. He meant we're very formidable on offense, which we would be with a full strength Kyrie. There's still the defensive end of the floor and there's still the random factors that are difficult to control.

No college basketball team is "unstoppable."

UNLV in '91 was unstoppable until we stopped them...

I like the way K surprised the media with his announcement. The press conference was OVER, the reporters were leaving when he surprised them and came in for questions...

K would not have done that if the wasn't sure KI was playing. I believe if he was unsure, he would have waited until today or tomorrow to buy more time to make a decision and to make the announcement.

NM Duke Fan
03-16-2011, 10:52 AM
Saw these lines over at FoxSports, for whatever it is worth:

Sources told FOXSports.com that Irving is 100 percent healthy and didn’t experience any pain or soreness after his first full-contact practice.

"His step is a tad slower, but he was hitting everything and is already taking minutes from (Seth) Curry and (Andre) Dawkins," a source in attendance said. "And Duke is running Nolan (Smith) and Kyle (Singler) off the ball exclusively."

http://msn.foxsports.com/collegebasketball/story/Kyrie-Irving-would-make-Duke-Blue-Devils-title-favorite-if-he-returns-from-toe-injury-for-NCAA-tournament-031511

uh_no
03-16-2011, 11:01 AM
The original quote was from Frank Martin. A poster stated that when Martin said Duke was near to "unguardable" with Kyrie, he meant the team was "unstoppable." I disagreed.

K also is quoted as saying the perimeter was unguardable.....in the team meeting before the unc game

OZZIE4DUKE
03-16-2011, 11:03 AM
wait.. are you changing to OpTIMistic for me?
Not until after our game on Friday and we get a report on Kyrie's post game condition. If we win AND he is A-OK, that is my intention! You see, I try to take nothing for granted and to make no assumptions. I will not irritate nor infuriate the weaufgods. Been there, done that, won't do it again. :cool:

tieguy
03-16-2011, 11:05 AM
I agree with all the skeptics here; Kyrie coming back is great news but we're still closer to 2002 than 1992. That said, I wanted to quibble with one thing:



Kyrie is a freshman point guard who's played in the grand total of 8 games in his collegiate career. He showed great promise, though his stats weren't awe-inspiring.

Actually, his stats were awe-inspiring. In only 29 minutes per game he was averaging 17.4 points, 5.1 assists, and 1.5 steals. If he'd played Nolan-like minutes (another 5 minutes per game) it'd be 20+ points and 6+ assists per game. And he was doing it incredibly efficiently- his Pomeroy offensive rating of 129 would lead the country if he'd had enough minutes to qualify.

Much of that insane ability was predicated on his explosiveness, and that, more than stamina, is a potential issue coming back. Will he feel comfortable driving off that toe? A 100% Kyre who can go at full speed for only 10-15 minutes/game is still a huge, huge weapon that opens up a lot of options for the rest of the team during those minutes. A Kyrie who goes at 80% speed for 20-25 minutes is less of an upgrade over Nolan or Curry. We'll see Friday and Sunday, I guess.

jv001
03-16-2011, 11:05 AM
UNLV in '91 was unstoppable until we stopped them...

I like the way K surprised the media with his announcement. The press conference was OVER, the reporters were leaving when he surprised them and came in for questions...

K would not have done that if the wasn't sure KI was playing. I believe if he was unsure, he would have waited until today or tomorrow to buy more time to make a decision and to make the announcement.

I'm sure Coach K wanted us Duke fans to get our brackets filled out correctly with Duke as the national champions, lol. Go Duke!

jtelander
03-16-2011, 11:08 AM
"His step is a tad slower"

I believe this is the 2nd time I have seen reference to KI being a bit slower. I expect this is true and will continue to be the case for the next month. After all, when he got hurt, he had the entire summer and preseason to get into great shape. Now he doesn't have that kind of time.

Some here seem to be operating under the assumption that he will regain his form in a matter of days and will be the same Kyrie that we saw last fall. That seems unrealistic to me and likely to lead to disappointment.

At this point, my expectations are low, but hopes are high.

flyingdutchdevil
03-16-2011, 11:15 AM
I believe this is the 2nd time I have seen reference to KI being a bit slower. I expect this is true and will continue to be the case for the next month. After all, when he got hurt, he had the entire summer and preseason to get into great shape. Now he doesn't have that kind of time.

Some here seem to be operating under the assumption that he will regain his form in a matter of days and will be the same Kyrie that we saw last fall. That seems unrealistic to me and likely to lead to disappointment.

At this point, my expectations are low, but hopes are high.

What! You get injured and you become slower! ;)

Just messing. This makes sense. Like you, my expectations are low(er than the beginning of the season), but I too believe KI will come through as a super sixth man. Like Dwayne Wade during Team USA's Olympic run. Yes - that epic.

Devilsfan
03-16-2011, 11:22 AM
Let's see, a bullet train running at 75% of its top speed. Kyrie will still be faster than most of college basketball's guards.

Chard
03-16-2011, 11:31 AM
When I wrote that I thought that the FF was 99% likely I didn't think anyone would take it as me giving out statistical probabilities. That is what I think. I should have typed "I'm 99% positive that Duke will make the FF."

I'm 99% sure we'll see Duke in the Final Four this year. Kind of like I'm 99% sure that I'll be watching a basketball game around 3 pm on Friday. I don't need to delve into equations to come up with that figure. It's just what I think.

I don't think that what I posted has anything to do with the teams psyche or being unfair to them to think that and share it with others on a bulletin board. I think the pressure they're putting on themselves is far greater than what I could apply.

I thought that Duke would reach the FF this year with out Kyrie. The addition of Kyrie just makes me much more certain. Will I be nervous for the team when they face Michigan or Tennessee? Heck yeah! If Hampton hangs around for the first 20 minutes, I'll be nervous! If they advance I'll be just as nervous for them in the next game. It wouldn't matter who was in the line up for Duke. I'm always cautious and nervous no matter who the competition is!

So, for all those curmudgeons out there trying to bring my optoemism down I just want to clarify that I wasn't saying Duke HAS a 99% chance of reaching the Final Four. That, I agree, is ridiculous. Duke would have to get ALL the calls in order for that to happen. :)

Sorry for the confusion and the slight thread hijack.

swood1000
03-16-2011, 11:49 AM
Kyrie probably has been exercising all along on the machines and his overall stamina will be lower to the extent that he was restricted from exercising certain muscles. For example, his right ankle was immobile while his knee was not (or was it?). So there could be a kind of imbalance where all the rest of his muscles are in much better shape than the lower leg muscles on his right leg. The risk could be that he keeps going when he should stop, because he is responding to the limit of the unaffected muscles. It will also be interesting to see whether, until he gets his conditioning back, he is quicker going to his right than to his left.

Kedsy
03-16-2011, 11:52 AM
I agree with all the skeptics here; Kyrie coming back is great news but we're still closer to 2002 than 1992.

Not sure why you say this. The 2002 team's biggest weakness was complacency. It looked like they figured they didn't have to play hard for 40 minutes because they could always come back and win. And it bit them in the end. I don't see the current team having such overconfidence.


Actually, his stats were awe-inspiring. In only 29 minutes per game he was averaging 17.4 points, 5.1 assists, and 1.5 steals. If he'd played Nolan-like minutes (another 5 minutes per game) it'd be 20+ points and 6+ assists per game. And he was doing it incredibly efficiently- his Pomeroy offensive rating of 129 would lead the country if he'd had enough minutes to qualify.

Well, at the time, Kyrie's offensive rating was third (or maybe even fourth) on the team, so it wasn't quite as impressive as you're making it out. (Although one could probably argue that the fact that we had so many guys with great o-ratings had something to do with Kyrie.)

I don't want to put words in -jk's cyber-mouth, but I expect when he said Kyrie's numbers weren't awe-inspiring he was referring to Kyrie's pedestrian 1.9 assist to turnover ratio, which was significantly worse than Larry Drew's. For a PG, those turnovers made Kyrie's stats less-than-awe-inspiring for me.

Class of '94
03-16-2011, 11:54 AM
I agree with your general premise -- Kyrie's return will make Mason and Miles better -- but disagree that Mason will in general put up numbers anywhere close to the Marquette game. He may have one game like that, but not more than that. In the Marquette game for whatever reason, we chose to Make Mason our primary scoring option, and he delivered. But unless there's a specific reason to do so in a particular game, he will remain our 4th or 5th offensive option on the floor during the NCAAT.

You're probably right. I guess I got a little overly excited about Kyrie's return and impact. But I think his numbers will go up (maybe not to the Marquette extent) with Kyrie running a more uptemp pace. It fits Mason's game so well.

NYBri
03-16-2011, 12:22 PM
At this point, my expectations are low, but hopes are high.

Pretty much sums it all up. :cool:

TheDuckStore
03-16-2011, 12:24 PM
In the immortal words of Han Solo: Great, kid. Don't get cocky.

DevilWearsPrada
03-16-2011, 12:30 PM
In the immortal words of Han Solo: Great, kid. Don't get cocky.

Kyrie is such a nice young gentleman. He wasn't cocky at the beginning of the season, when he was the best point guard in the nation!

I only see Coach putting Kyrie in for a few minutes each half (5 - 7 minutes each half). And perhaps at 2-3 minute intervals. There is no need to press the kid. Duke is playing Hampton on Friday afternoon. But I am thrilled knowing that Kyrie will be wearing the No 1 Duke jersey and seeing him suited up on the Duke bench!

And the second game of Michigan and Tenn should be a good match up also! I know Kyrie is eager to get back into a REAL game!

So wear that special NIKE shoe! And thank goodness Kyrie's TOE has been saved this season!

And as always,
Go Duke!!!

loran16
03-16-2011, 12:33 PM
In the immortal words of Han Solo: Great, kid. Don't get cocky.

Also: "Never tell me the odds!"

oldnavy
03-16-2011, 12:41 PM
Kyrie is such a nice young gentleman. He wasn't cocky at the beginning of the season, when he was the best point guard in the nation!

I only see Coach putting Kyrie in for a few minutes each half (5 - 7 minutes each half). And perhaps at 2-3 minute intervals. There is no need to press the kid. Duke is playing Hampton on Friday afternoon. But I am thrilled knowing that Kyrie will be wearing the No 1 Duke jersey and seeing him suited up on the Duke bench!

And the second game of Michigan and Tenn should be a good match up also! I know Kyrie is eager to get back into a REAL game!

So wear that special NIKE shoe! And thank goodness Kyrie's TOE has been saved this season!

And as always,
Go Duke!!!

I think the OP was referring to us, not KI. ;)

BD80
03-16-2011, 12:45 PM
As far as Tennessee we can't look past them. That said a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while. We are a much better team and I say team not individuals. We will be fine I'm not worried Duke won't over look them.

Not that I will ever feel bad for Bruce Pearl, but imagine having to prepare for an 8 v 9 battle and then for Duke 2 days later. And this is not just preparing for the version of Duke that earned a #1 seed and stomped unc in the ACC Championship game, but ALSO preparing for Duke with Kyrie Irving!


I believe this is the 2nd time I have seen reference to KI being a bit slower. ...

Same reference, second repetition.

DukieinSoCal
03-16-2011, 12:46 PM
One of my small concerns is how we handle late-clock and late-game situations now. Does Kyrie take over despite the possible rust or do we keep Nolan in the role of creating/initiating the offense. Nolan has become such a great PG, breaking down defenses and managing the shot clock. I think his vision and passing was the best I've ever seen in the ACCT.

Do we play Kyrie early in games, end of close games, pressure-packed situations?

Kedsy
03-16-2011, 12:49 PM
Do we play Kyrie early in games, end of close games, pressure-packed situations?

I suspect both. If it were me I'd play early and late in both halves and (at least initially) not so much in between, unless an emergency arose.

NYBri
03-16-2011, 12:50 PM
One of my small concerns is how we handle late-clock and late-game situations now. Does Kyrie take over despite the possible rust or do we keep Nolan in the role of creating/initiating the offense. Nolan has become such a great PG, breaking down defenses and managing the shot clock. I think his vision and passing was the best I've ever seen in the ACCT.

Do we play Kyrie early in games, end of close games, pressure-packed situations?

In those situations, I bet you The Nolanator will have the ball in his hands.

TheDuckStore
03-16-2011, 12:57 PM
I think the OP was referring to us, not KI. ;)

That's right - apologies... should have said: Great kid[s]. Don't get cocky.

Rudy
03-16-2011, 01:10 PM
I had already filled out my bracket when I learned this news. I did pick Duke to win it all but I felt sentiment pushing me that far. Now I feel we're the favorite and I'm much more confident of my choices.

Nevertheless, the best team doesn't always win in any one-and-done tournament.

1991 was mentioned. But consider also 1983 when UNC had MJ, Sam Perkins, Matt Doherty and Brad Daugherty and wasn't even seeded 1st in the East. St. John's was seeded first there and Georgia knocked them off at Sweet 16 then knocked off UNC in the Elite 8. But even these weren't favorites to win the whole season. That tag belonged to Phi Slamma Jamma, the Houston team which included Olajuwan and Drexler and was 31-2. They lost in the final, as you may recall, to the cinderella of all cinderella's-- Valvano's and Lowe's (and Wittenberg's) NCState.

So, nothing is for sure. But I like our chances.

tieguy
03-16-2011, 01:47 PM
Not sure why you say this. The 2002 team's biggest weakness was complacency.

The 2002 team's biggest weakness was that it was "defending" the title without two key components: Shane and Nate. In other words, it was a very different team, sharing some components with '01, but not as proven as we wanted to believe. When crunch time came, the team played differently from the year before (different defensive rotations, different rebounding on offense, etc.) and was not as effective as it had been in the previous year. (Cockiness was part of it, but not having Shane rotate over was a bigger part.) It wasn't terribly battle-tested, either- there was only one other good team in the ACC that year, and just like this year, we lost to that team on the road after beating them soundly in the second half at Cameron. That's unlike '92, where the lineup was very similar to '91 and the offense and defense functioned pretty much exactly the same as it had.

That's why this team is a lot closer to '02- they haven't really been challenged, and they are still finding themselves, despite the best "big two" that you could possibly hope for.

trinity92
03-16-2011, 01:55 PM
Not sure why you say this. The 2002 team's biggest weakness was complacency. It looked like they figured they didn't have to play hard for 40 minutes because they could always come back and win. And it bit them in the end. I don't see the current team having such overconfidence.

The original argument was that this year’s team more resembles 2002 than 1992. By comparing 1992 to 2002, which were two champions trying to win another championship the next year, I came away with the notion the OP thinks we’re not necessarily world-beaters, even with Kyrie returning, and our overall team prospects this year come closer to the team that couldn’t win the second championship than the one that did. Your counter-argument “this year’s team isn’t really comparable to 2002” is completely non-responsive to the OP. Read the OP and answer him on his own terms if you’re going to answer at all; Between 2002 and 1992, which of those two year’s teams do you think we more resemble, in terms of dominance/ability to win the second championship?



I don't want to put words in -jk's cyber-mouth, but I expect when he said Kyrie's numbers weren't awe-inspiring he was referring to Kyrie's pedestrian 1.9 assist to turnover ratio, which was significantly worse than Larry Drew's. For a PG, those turnovers made Kyrie's stats less-than-awe-inspiring for me.

Similarly, I find focusing solely on Kyrie’s 1.9:1 a/t ratio to the exclusion of his other stats to be misleading, at best. Hurley’s career a/t ratio was 2.01:1, and Jason Williams’ was 1.5:1. Hurley had a marginally better career a/t ratio than Kyrie’s, but JWill fell way short. Do Jason Williams’ turnovers make his career stats less-than-awe-inspiring for you? Looking at the first 8 games of their freshman years, which seems a more relevant time period for this comparison, Hurley only averaged 1.8:1, and Jason Williams 1.2:1. By your reasoning, since the freshman JWill and Hurley both had inferior a/t ratios than Larry Drew (as a junior), their statistics were significantly worse than LD’s. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt you weren’t implying LDII was a superior point guard to Hurley and Williams. I submit all you’ve done here is illustrate how useless a/t ratio is an indicator of a point guard’s performance, if you’re excluding their other stats and contributions.

Getting back to the original question, putting up the gaudy assist and ppg numbers Kyrie did, in just his first 8 games, was impressive. He had much better scoring and a/t ratio in his first 8 games than our two best PGs ever. Since Hurley and JWill inspired awe in me, I'll give Kyrie's surpassing them, if only for a short stint, as awe-inspiring.

OZZIE4DUKE
03-16-2011, 02:03 PM
One of my small concerns is how we handle late-clock and late-game situations now. Does Kyrie take over despite the possible rust or do we keep Nolan in the role of creating/initiating the offense. Nolan has become such a great PG, breaking down defenses and managing the shot clock. I think his vision and passing was the best I've ever seen in the ACCT.

Do we play Kyrie early in games, end of close games, pressure-packed situations?
I'm sure we'll play that by toe, err, I mean by feel. Coach will figure it out. Do we have the lead? By how much? Is Kyrie tired? Are they both on the court at the same time? How much time is left? Are we talking Friday or Sunday? Or are you projecting later in the tournament? You could have a very different answer depending on which weekend we're talking about. Again, not looking ahead, but still, I think you'd have different answers.

Rogue
03-16-2011, 02:11 PM
He could hear the fans,, see the sweat of team mates.. the jubilation of winning the ACC.. He could smell the gun powder of the wars.. he needs to be in it.. he's got to get back in the fray,, he can taste it.. he's been there before and is ready to try to come back in anyway to help this team.
Welcome back to live fire Kyrie with open arms.:cool:

Kedsy
03-16-2011, 02:21 PM
Between 2002 and 1992, which of those two year’s teams do you think we more resemble, in terms of dominance/ability to win the second championship?

I don't think the current team resembles either 1992 or 2002. At all. In any meaningful way, other than Duke won the championship the year before in all three cases, and I don't understand why the team's prior year performance has any bearing on this year's performance.


I came away with the notion the OP thinks we’re not necessarily world-beaters, even with Kyrie returning, and our overall team prospects this year come closer to the team that couldn’t win the second championship than the one that did.

Well, the 2002 team was a "world-beater." That team was by far the most talented in the country that year. And when you say "couldn't," you ought to have said "didn't." The 2002 team was certainly capable of winning the championship.

Answer me this: If Christian Laettner's shot had bounced off the back rim in 1992, and if the ref had called the obvious foul and Carlos Boozer had sank two free throws, and ultimately the 2002 team had made the Final Four while the 1992 would have lost to a mediocre Kentucky team in the Elite Eight, then which of those two teams would we have best resembled? Your argument seems to hinge on moments where chance favored us on the one hand and didn't on the other. What does that have to do with this year's team?


Similarly, I find focusing solely on Kyrie’s 1.9:1 a/t ratio to the exclusion of his other stats to be misleading, at best.

I wasn't focusing solely on Kyrie's a/t ratio. Frankly, while 17 ppg and 5 apg are good stats, considering we only played three or four decent teams in those eight games, I wouldn't characterize them as awe-inspiring to begin with. Add in the turnovers, for a PG, and I don't think we're anything close to "awe-inspiring." Statistically, at least. If the OP was simply describing Kyrie's play (as opposed to his statistics) I wouldn't have argued.

I might add that I found neither Jason Williams's nor Bobby Hurley's freshman year stats to be awe-inspiring (or their play during their freshman years, for that matter), in large part for the same reason. If Kyrie played three or four years at Duke and put up career numbers similar to Jason or Bobby, again I would not have argued.

yancem
03-16-2011, 02:25 PM
I'm sure we'll play that by toe, err, I mean by feel. Coach will figure it out. Do we have the lead? By how much? Is Kyrie tired? Are they both on the court at the same time? How much time is left? Are we talking Friday or Sunday? Or are you projecting later in the tournament? You could have a very different answer depending on which weekend we're talking about. Again, not looking ahead, but still, I think you'd have different answers.

For the most part I agree with you but I think it should be noted that when a game has been on the line in the past the K ususally places the ball in a senior's hands. Sometimes even to our chagrin. Some thought that Avery should have had the ball in '99 instead of Langdon. I'm sure that there are other examples but my brain isn't working very well today. Anyway, barring unforeseen circumstances, I expect the ball to be in Smith's hands when the game is on the line.

loran16
03-16-2011, 02:50 PM
I wasn't focusing solely on Kyrie's a/t ratio. Frankly, while 17 ppg and 5 apg are good stats, considering we only played three or four decent teams in those eight games, I wouldn't characterize them as awe-inspiring to begin with. Add in the turnovers, for a PG, and I don't think we're anything close to "awe-inspiring." Statistically, at least. If the OP was simply describing Kyrie's play (as opposed to his statistics) I wouldn't have argued..

Except using ppg and apg is misleading, due to the fact that Kyrie didn't take a ton of shots. Kyrie was one of the most efficient players in the country at scoring during those 8 games.

His effective FG% was an absurd 62.3% and his True Shooting % (which includes FTs as well) as an insane 69.6%. Only four players in the country finished with higher true shooting percentages, which is what we can call awe inspiring (those 4 include 2 mid major guys, then Arizona's great Derrick Williams and OSU's Jon Diebler, who's lights out from 3).

Yes the turnover rate is a big high, but the assist rate is phenomenal, and with his shooting and DEFENSE, his play was starting to look awe inspiring, especially the last two games.

Wander
03-16-2011, 03:19 PM
Need to echo the opposition to -jk's evaluation of Kyrie's play. I'm not sure what more he could have done to be "awe-inspiring," and I don't care how we split hairs about stats or actual play or whatever. In those early games, he was our best player, looked like he was going to make a very serious run at National Player of the Year, defended Jacob Pullen into what I imagine has to be the worst game of his career, rose himself to the #1 projected pick in the NBA draft, made Mason Plumlee look like a really good scorer... what more should he have done? Hit some fullcourt shots at the halftime buzzer? Of course, it's possible that he would have hit a "freshman wall" or something and come back to Earth if he had stayed healthy... but I don't think that's a particularly intelligent thing to believe.

I know we want to temper expectations, and yeah, the "99% for a Final Four" thing is ridiculous... but Kyrie matches every single bit of hype he got.

Also this blog post is awesome (read the explanations for picks of the Duke games): http://sethcurrysavesduke.blogspot.com/2011/03/perfect-team-is-back-west-region-picks.html

-jk
03-16-2011, 03:43 PM
I will simply say he showed huge potential in his 8 games, but was certainly not a polished player - much as Bobby and Jason showed promise. I think by this point had he stayed healthy, he would be truly awesome.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

Perhaps he'll be back next year and we can enjoy watching him become a more fully developed player.

-jk

trinity92
03-16-2011, 03:54 PM
I don't think the current team resembles either 1992 or 2002. At all. In any meaningful way, other than Duke won the championship the year before in all three cases, and I don't understand why the team's prior year performance has any bearing on this year's performance.

There is special meaning attached to winning two championships in a row and the teams of 1992, 2001 and 2011 were/are all in better position to do this than a typical national champion. Denying knowledge of this is feigned ignorance.


Well, the 2002 team was a "world-beater." That team was by far the most talented in the country that year. And when you say "couldn't," you ought to have said "didn't." The 2002 team was certainly capable of winning the championship.

Answer me this: If Christian Laettner's shot had bounced off the back rim in 1992, and if the ref had called the obvious foul and Carlos Boozer had sank two free throws, and ultimately the 2002 team had made the Final Four while the 1992 would have lost to a mediocre Kentucky team in the Elite Eight, then which of those two teams would we have best resembled? Your argument seems to hinge on moments where chance favored us on the one hand and didn't on the other. What does that have to do with this year's team?

The 2002 team attempted to win a championship but failed—they could not do what they set out to. While we theoretically “could” have won, focus on parsing the definition of “could” is similar to refusing to answer my question and posing another. For my part, I’ll not answer a theoretical question about what didn’t happen but might have because it is, again, completely non-responsive to the OP.


I wasn't focusing solely on Kyrie's a/t ratio. Frankly, while 17 ppg and 5 apg are good stats, considering we only played three or four decent teams in those eight games, I wouldn't characterize them as awe-inspiring to begin with. Add in the turnovers, for a PG, and I don't think we're anything close to "awe-inspiring." Statistically, at least. If the OP was simply describing Kyrie's play (as opposed to his statistics) I wouldn't have argued.

I might add that I found neither Jason Williams's nor Bobby Hurley's freshman year stats to be awe-inspiring (or their play during their freshman years, for that matter), in large part for the same reason. If Kyrie played three or four years at Duke and put up career numbers similar to Jason or Bobby, again I would not have argued.

Actually, you really did focus only on a/t ratio in your post.


For a PG, those turnovers made Kyrie's stats less-than-awe-inspiring for me.

Your focus does appear to be broader in this post though. I can see how, to some, an 8 game career just can’t be awe-inspiring. Kyrie's 17/5/1.9 are incredibly good stats, especially so early in one’s career—it’s usually only later in players’ careers they reach this level or beyond. KI’s stats for his career to date in some respects surpass those of Hurley and Williams’ careers, while in others they fall short but are in the same neighborhood. I understand it’s all we have to go on, but it’s fairly awe-inspiring, taken for what it is, just being in such heady company. That is far from saying (which I wouldn't) that KI is better or had a better career than Hurley or Williams.

diveonthefloor
03-16-2011, 04:02 PM
OK, it's 5pm EDT.

Someone who is "in the know" and posts on DBR must by now know whether Kyrie practiced again today and how he "looked."

We are waiting! :cool:

delfrio
03-16-2011, 04:03 PM
Also this blog post is awesome (read the explanations for picks of the Duke games): http://sethcurrysavesduke.blogspot.com/2011/03/perfect-team-is-back-west-region-picks.html

Too true... and this comment at the end deserves special mention:



I think it would be better if they didn't tell anyone about him coming back, and handled it more like a professional wrestling match:

A few minutes into their sweet-sixteen match-up with Texas, Megadeth's Symphony of Destruction would come on.

Gus Johnson: "Wait a minute, is that Kyrie Irving's music?"

Kyrie comes out and headbutts Rick Barnes in his big fat face. Duke wins.

The end.

Kedsy
03-16-2011, 04:11 PM
Except using ppg and apg is misleading, due to the fact that Kyrie didn't take a ton of shots. Kyrie was one of the most efficient players in the country at scoring during those 8 games.

His effective FG% was an absurd 62.3% and his True Shooting % (which includes FTs as well) as an insane 69.6%. Only four players in the country finished with higher true shooting percentages, which is what we can call awe inspiring (those 4 include 2 mid major guys, then Arizona's great Derrick Williams and OSU's Jon Diebler, who's lights out from 3).

Yes the turnover rate is a big high, but the assist rate is phenomenal, and with his shooting and DEFENSE, his play was starting to look awe inspiring, especially the last two games.

Not arguing with your last point -- he looked pretty awesome in the last couple games. And the only reason I mentioned ppg and apg is those were exactly what the OP called "awe-inspiring" stats.

I will say the efficiency numbers are a little misleading, though, because I think he was third (or even fourth) on the team when he went out, definitely behind Andre and I don't remember who else, but maybe Nolan and maybe Ryan.

Kedsy
03-16-2011, 04:22 PM
The 2002 team attempted to win a championship but failed—they could not do what they set out to. While we theoretically “could” have won, focus on parsing the definition of “could” is similar to refusing to answer my question and posing another. For my part, I’ll not answer a theoretical question about what didn’t happen but might have because it is, again, completely non-responsive to the OP.

The OP's entire discussion on 1992/2002 was: "I agree with all the skeptics here; Kyrie coming back is great news but we're still closer to 2002 than 1992." I said our current team doesn't resemble the 2002 team, which it doesn't. In what way was that non-responsive?

You asked me which team it resembled more and I said neither. I can see how you could consider that non-responsive, except your question is flawed, because it assumes we resembled either of the teams at all, and we don't. Unless you consider the fact that the team plays basketball and the players have DUKE on their jerseys to be a resemblance.

And I don't care if you respond to my theoretical question because I already know the answer. I am amused, however, at your rationale, because you have now spent two long posts on this subject filled to the brim with opinions that are "completely non-responsive to the OP."

NYBri
03-16-2011, 04:50 PM
Also this blog post is awesome (read the explanations for picks of the Duke games): http://sethcurrysavesduke.blogspot.com/2011/03/perfect-team-is-back-west-region-picks.html

LOVE the writing and the reasons for the Duke wins are amazing. :cool:

tieguy
03-16-2011, 04:58 PM
The OP's

I'm not Voldemort, you can call me by my proper name ;)

Busy now but will respond later- suffice to say that I think I already answered a lot, but in particular the point about lucky bounces should be responded to.

burns15
03-16-2011, 05:01 PM
any update on practice today? anybody know if it went well for Kyrie and all?

fh84
03-16-2011, 05:41 PM
two days of practice under his belt, according to Wojo:

http://www.wralsportsfan.com/duke/story/9281654/

ChicagoCrazy84
03-16-2011, 05:56 PM
two days of practice under his belt, according to Wojo:

http://www.wralsportsfan.com/duke/story/9281654/


Awesome news, thanks for posting!!

Refreshing to hear Wojo reiterate Kyrie's health being the main concern and as fans its refreshing to know that the trainers and doctors all feel he is good to go and do not feel that re-injury is a real possibility. I trust Jose and Nick and his team of doctors and I am sooo excited to have him back!!

Did anyone catch Adrian Branch's thoughts on Kyrie's return? I saw the topic come up but I was at a bar and they didn't have the letter box going so Im not sure what his thoughts were.

watzone
03-16-2011, 06:37 PM
He'll play v. Hampton.

Greg_Newton
03-16-2011, 06:54 PM
He'll play v. Hampton.

Yeeeeeeeeee haaaaaaaaaaw!

:D:D:D:D

Duke31122
03-16-2011, 07:10 PM
He'll play v. Hampton.

Is this confirmed or just opinion?

burns15
03-16-2011, 07:10 PM
Is this confirmed or just opinion?

if watzone says it, its confirmed

Duke31122
03-16-2011, 07:20 PM
if watzone says it, its confirmed

Haha, so I take it Watzone is a reliable source?

rotogod00
03-16-2011, 07:23 PM
Haha, so I take it Watzone is a reliable source?

he is THE reliable source

thewoosh31
03-16-2011, 07:23 PM
Haha, so I take it Watzone is a reliable source?

He runs a little website called, Blue Devil Nation. :D

Duke31122
03-16-2011, 07:26 PM
He runs a little website called, Blue Devil Nation. :D

O well thank you I will make sure I remember that. Sorry I am new around here, but not as a Duke fan. I trust him then so IT IS CONFIRMED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ForkFondler
03-16-2011, 07:35 PM
I don't think the current team resembles either 1992 or 2002. At all.

With the KI wild card thrown in , I'm thinking this is the most unpredictable Duke team evah. History repeats, except when it doesn't.

dukebluesincebirth
03-16-2011, 07:53 PM
Does anyone know what time the open practice is tomorrow? I know some people posted the other day that they would give us some live updates. The excitement is growing! Looking forward to madness tomorrow!!

loran16
03-16-2011, 08:00 PM
Not arguing with your last point -- he looked pretty awesome in the last couple games. And the only reason I mentioned ppg and apg is those were exactly what the OP called "awe-inspiring" stats.

I will say the efficiency numbers are a little misleading, though, because I think he was third (or even fourth) on the team when he went out, definitely behind Andre and I don't remember who else, but maybe Nolan and maybe Ryan.

Andre was ahead of him. Regardless, the eFG and TS% were still insane. And unlike Andre, who did it by shooting an unsustainable rate on 3s (No one shoots over 50% like that one 3s when taking that many), his numbers appear sustainable.

jv001
03-16-2011, 08:02 PM
Haha, so I take it Watzone is a reliable source?

as anyone I know(outside of coaching staff) concerning Duke Basketball. You should check out his site(Blue Devil Nation) sometime. You'll find it's the best premium site on Duke Sports. Just ask Bob Green if you don't believe me. Go Duke!

Duke31122
03-16-2011, 08:08 PM
as anyone I know(outside of coaching staff) concerning Duke Basketball. You should check out his site(Blue Devil Nation) sometime. You'll find it's the best premium site on Duke Sports. Just ask Bob Green if you don't believe me. Go Duke!

Yea haha I have been to Blue Devil Nation, I just didn't know he was the one who runs the site. I believe him and I am confident Kyrie will play Friday.

jv001
03-16-2011, 08:09 PM
Andre was ahead of him. Regardless, the eFG and TS% were still insane. And unlike Andre, who did it by shooting an unsustainable rate on 3s (No one shoots over 50% like that one 3s when taking that many), his numbers appear sustainable.

Andre, Mason and Miles numbers were very good because of Kyrie. However Mason and Miles have grown by leaps and bounds recently. And Andre has been getting better both offensively and defensively in recent games. So with Kyrie getting back into the rotation we should be even better. Go Duke!

Greg_Newton
03-16-2011, 08:14 PM
he is THE reliable source

When Kyrie wants to know how his toe is feeling, he asks watzone.