Discussion thread: Southeast (New Orleans) bracket

[JasonEvans]

Please put all comments on the SEast/New Orleans bracket in this thread. A poll will be posted asking who you think will win the West after the brackets are announced.

-Jason

[ajgoodfella7]

I think Pitt got the easiest bracket by far. If they can't make a final four run this year, they may never get there.

[pfrduke]

Who did the Big 10 pay off? Michigan State as a 10 seed? Michigan an 8? Penn State a 10?

[dukeballer2294]

florida as a 2? really?

[Dukegbw3]

Florida is certainly not a 2 and the 3, BYU is missing their 2nd best player. Pitt should win this corner of the bracket hands down.

[ChrisP]

Other than Wisc and Kansas St. (who would have to play one another before getting to Pitt) and MAYBE St. John's, this looks like a cakewalk to Houston for Pitt. I'd be surprised if they didn't make it to at least the Elite 8.

[1 24 90]

Maybe Butler can get back to the FF. jk

[JasonEvans]

I have added a poll to this thread. It asks who will win, but maybe it should ask how was such an absurdly bad bracket put together. I would have gladly been a #2 in this bracket. Heck, I would have gladly been the #4 in this bracket.

--Jason "K St and Wisconsin are the best teams in this bracket, IMO" Evans

[MChambers]

I have added a poll to this thread. It asks who will win, but maybe it should ask how was such an absurdly bad bracket put together. I would have gladly been a #2 in this bracket. Heck, I would have gladly been the #4 in this bracket.

--Jason "K St and Wisconsin are the best teams in this bracket, IMO" Evans

Not sure how Pitt, the weakest of the #1s, got this bracket. Florida should be switched with Purdue or Texas.

[COYS]

Agree with everyone. This is, hands down, the easiest bracket. You have a combination of high seeds that are head scratchers (Florida as a #2 . . . after LOOSING their conference title game to a #4 seed, UK) with high seeds missing key players (BYU, and I fully admit that Duke benefited from that with Purdue as our #4 last year). That basically leaves Wisconsin as the only top four seed that appears to me to be a real threat, assuming Pitt plays up to their potential. I think that if Pitt fails to play well in the tourney again and falls early, the bracket opens up considerably. Virtually any team seeded 1-12 could lose their first game (well, besides Pitt) or make it to the Elite Eight.

[brevity]

--Jason "K St and Wisconsin are the best teams in this bracket, IMO" Evans

Really? I'm not sold on either winning their first game. Seeding Utah State 12th is absurd; I'll take their consistency over KSU's volatility any day. And I think Wisconsin should get past Belmont, unless the final score is something like 23-19.

I think this is Pittsburgh's year to make the Final Four, but I'll admit: this does look a little like the Kansas region last year, where the 5 and 6 seeds ended up in the Elite 8. Ripe for upsets. Time to root for, say, ODU and Gonzaga.

[roywhite]

I still have nightmares of Belmont, if you want a more recent (if not quite so extreme 2/15) one!

-jk

By the way, keep your eye on Belmont. They had an outstanding season, finishing 30-4, and are ranked #18 in the country overall by kenpom. If you have any faith at all in the kenpom rankings (and I think they are excellent), you'd have to say Belmont got really screwed with a #13 seed.

Also, they have a player Scott Saunders (2nd team all-conference, and a productive inside player) who is the son of former Duke player Larry Saunders (1971 captain).

[wilson]

By the way, keep your eye on Belmont. They had an outstanding season, finishing 30-4, and are ranked #18 in the country overall by kenpom. If you have any faith at all in the kenpom rankings (and I think they are excellent), you'd have to say Belmont got really screwed with a #13 seed.

Also, they have a player Scott Saunders (2nd team all-conference, and a productive inside player) who is the son of former Duke player Larry Saunders (1971 captain).Totally agreed on Belmont's overall profile. Plus, they drew a first-round matchup with Wisconsin, who has displayed a recent penchant for underperforming in the NCAAs (or really, one could argue, anywhere away from the Kohl Center).
I will almost certainly select Belmont for that first-round upset.

[MChambers]

By the way, keep your eye on Belmont. They had an outstanding season, finishing 30-4, and are ranked #18 in the country overall by kenpom. If you have any faith at all in the kenpom rankings (and I think they are excellent), you'd have to say Belmont got really screwed with a #13 seed.

Also, they have a player Scott Saunders (2nd team all-conference, and a productive inside player) who is the son of former Duke player Larry Saunders (1971 captain).

Belmont really did get mistreated. See my post in the Dork NCAA Discussion thread:

http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?24822-Dork-NCAA-Discussion&p=486852#post486852

[gw67]

I suspect that several folks will pick Belmont to upset Wisconsin including our DBR guys. Actually, I second a thought I saw somewhere that the Badgers will likely either lose their first round game or they will go to the Elite Eight.

I thought that the comment by DBR that "Wisconsin will want to run a slower, disciplined game suitable to the big stiffs they raise in the Midwest" to be inappropriate. Leuer is an oustanding frontcourt player (18.6 ppg and 7.3 rpg) and possible first round draft choice while Nankivil averages 10 ppg. Both Leuer and Nankivil are outstanding shooters and their scoring averages are even better than they appear because Wisconsin does not play an up tempo game. Neither is a "stiff".

Actually, the Badgers have an outstanding coach, terrific point guard, good frontcourt, OK bench and their pace of play normally keeps them in games even when they are playing poorly. The key for them, IMO, is the play of Taylor, their point guard. Based on a small viewing sample, they struggle when he has an off game. Don't get in a foul shooting contest wit Wisconsin because they shoot 82% as a team.

gw67

[superdave]

I cant believe I'm picking Florida to win this bracket. I just didnt think highly of the Big East or Pitt and there's the fact that no team losing in the 1st round of the conference tourney (although Pitt lost in 3rd round) has gone on to the Final Four.

I really dont believe in any of the teams in this bracket and am fairly certain someone is going to back in the Final Four. This could be the region that turns into a free-for-all.

My upsets are Utah State to the Sweet 16, Gonzaga to the Sweet 16 and ODU, Michigan State in the first round.

[noyac]

NO DOGS ALLOWED (http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/blog/the_dagger/post/Butler-8217-s-bulldog-Blue-II-banned-from-NCA?urn=ncaab-wp575)

Butler may have a chip on their shoulder...j/k my girlfriend and I met Blue II at the Final Four last year and he was very friendly and nice. (I would not let her pet him before the Championship game though...bad mojo).

[-bdbd]

Who did the Big 10 pay off? Michigan State as a 10 seed? Michigan an 8? Penn State a 10?

IIRC the Chairman of the Selection Committee was the Ohio State Athletic Director or some such. Yep, the same Committee that seeded OSU #1 overall (no problem with that), selected seven (7!) Big-10 teams, four of which had 13 or more losses, yet none of which were seeded below #10. The same committee that selected just 4 from the ACC - leaving off BC (21-12) and VPI (21-11) - and assigning Clemson (22-11) to a play-in game.

You can probably guess my sentiments...

This is one year I sure hope all the (selected) ACC schools have a very good showing! And I want to see one of the slighted ACC bubble teams win the NIT too.

:mad:

P.S. As a point of reference, while 10-seeds MSU and PSU each had 14 losses, the other two (non-Big 10) schools - both from other BCS conferences - that were seeded #10 had just 10 (FSU) and 11 (GA) losses. And 8-seeded Michigan had 13 losses, while none of the other 8-seeds had more than 9. Grrrrrr.

[Wander]

Get on the Gonzaga train!

[gw67]

What is left of the Washington Post continues to have terrific coverage of the NCAAT. Among other articles this morning was one written by Prisbell on Fredette (see link). BYU was weak on the frontline before losing Davies but now they are left to chucking up a bunch of threes. I expect them to get past Wofford but have a tough time in the weekend game.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/byu-vs-wofford-jimmer-fredette-will-key-the-cougars-offense/2011/03/16/AB6OEDh_story.html

gw67

[wilson]

BYU was weak on the frontline before losing Davies but now they are left to chucking up a bunch of threes. I expect them to get past Wofford but have a tough time in the weekend game.Agreed. I wouldn't be totally shocked to see them lose in the first round, either. Wofford was quite close to upsetting Wisconsin in the first round last year, and they may well be inspired to get on over the hump this season.

[El_Diablo]

Jacob Pullen missed practice yesterday with flu-like symptoms:

http://kansascity.sbnation.com/kansas-st-wildcats/2011/3/17/2055858/kansas-state-jacob-pullen-sick-utah

[pfrduke]

Quite a finish in DC, with Matt Howard getting a put-back lay-in as time expires. Could the Bulldogs be a team of destiny again? (Probably not)

[wilson]

Could the Bulldogs be a team of destiny again? (Probably not)Remember Tyus Edney. And Mike Miller. And Richard Hamilton. And Korie Lucious.

[superdave]

I am taken aback at Michigan State's struggles tonight. Yes, aback, alas. They have some real talent and I dont think chemistry is the issue either. Did it just not come together?

Josh Smith makes Oliver Miller look like Oprah after a binge diet. Wow. A big wide man who probably cannot sustain that weight for very long.

[Bluedog]

This is one of the biggest choke jobs by UCLA I have ever seen if MSU actually comes back. They can't make a free throw or get a pass inbounds. MSU is nailing 3s etc. I think they were up by 18 with like 7 minutes to go. Now a 3 point game with 40 seconds. By the way, ChrisP, I agree that her hair was crazy looking. I thought the exact same thing when I saw it. ;)

Edit: UCLA has missed three free throws in a row. MSU hits a 3. down by 1 with 4 sec to go. Ridiculous. UCLA has attempted 44 free throws this game...but can't make any.

[ChrisP]

Thanks Bluedog - I feel ya!

Looks like UCLA is going to pull it out though...

[ChrisP]

1 pt game with 4.4 left. My bracket is already WAY busted so I guess I shouldn't care but I had MSU winning this one (I have openly talked about my bias against west coast teams in another thread). Win or lose, definitely some choking going on by the Bruins.

[House G]

Sorry to see my buddy Lavin go out in the first round.

[ChrisP]

Yeah, not exactly a stellar day for the Big East with both Louisville and SJU going down. I really thought both would go far in this tourney. But, I think they still have what, like 14 teams still in it?

[Utley]

Saint John's goes down. For the second year in a row, the team that spanked us on January 30th goes down in the first round. Let's hope things turn out the same for the team that lost that game :)

[hurleyfor3]

I attended both sessions in Denver today. Wow. The 11, 12 and 13 all won and the 3/14 game (Byu/Wofford) stayed competitive throughout. Some notes...

Rick Pitino loses an NCAA Tournament game on a last-second shot. Hasn't that happened before? Surprisingly, Morehead didn't guard the inbounder on Louisville's last possession, but it didn't matter.

Jimmer is the real deal. Sometimes he tried to create stuff that isn't there, but made up for it by finding the open man in a favorable position often. Also, he plays NO defense. When Wofford had the ball I usually ended up watching Jimmer stay as far away from the ball as possible. A good perimeter-shooting team, and/or a deep team that can foul often, should be able to handle Byu easily.

Unfortunately for Byu, Gonzaga did an excellent job tonight of finding good shots and making them, and Few played nine guys significant minutes. They looked like the 6 seed in this game. I think Gonzo rolls to the Sweet 16.

So we have a 12/13 game on Saturday... was surprised how Richmond neutralized Vandy's size advantage. Richmond was the one blocking all the shots and preventing the ball from getting into the post in the second half. Byu was the only favorite that won, and the only team among the eight that plays at altitude. Hmmm.

[dukelifer]

Saint John's goes down. For the second year in a row, the team that spanked us on January 30th goes down in the first round. Let's hope things turn out the same for the team that lost that game :)

We can only hope. St. Johns lost a key player that hurt them- but curses are curses

[El_Diablo]

I see a couple people (1999ballboy, meloveduke) voted for Florida after the Thursday games were finished. Sneaky! ;)

But they could very well be right...Florida looked pretty strong and should be able to beat everyone on the bottom half of that region to advance to the Elite Eight (which is in New Orleans and provides a geographic advantage over whoever they'd face). Still a lot of basketball to be played, though.

[superdave]

I see a couple people (1999ballboy, meloveduke) voted for Florida after the Thursday games were finished. Sneaky! ;)

But they could very well be right...Florida looked pretty strong and should be able to beat everyone on the bottom half of that region to advance to the Elite Eight (which is in New Orleans and provides a geographic advantage over whoever they'd face). Still a lot of basketball to be played, though.

I had Florida at the beginning and managed to drift back to Pitt some. This region is so weak that it's a crapshoot. Gonzaga could very well make the FF. I dont trust a single team here.

[Bob Green]

A couple of today's more intriguing games take place in the Southeast Region. Both BYU - Gonzaga and Pitt - Butler have the potential to be very competitive games. Gonzaga, a team I rarely have praise for, is playing good basketball recently. Freshman David Stockton has matured into a steady point guard, Robert Sacre is a force down low, and Steven Gray and Elias Harris are excellent on the wing. I believe they will give BYU all they can handle. As for Pitt, I'm pulling for any #1 seed not named Duke to lose. Enough said!

[Chris Randolph]

Gators look like a team with a good recipe for making the final 4 and possibly winning it all. Bigs who can rebound/defend and score a bit. Versatile wing man (Parsons) and some shot makers at the guard positions. Not to mention a coach who has done this before

Nice win over a very game UCLA team. The Bruins were playing well and should be a tough team next year

[superdave]

Gators look like a team with a good recipe for making the final 4 and possibly winning it all. Bigs who can rebound/defend and score a bit. Versatile wing man (Parsons) and some shot makers at the guard positions. Not to mention a coach who has done this before

Nice win over a very game UCLA team. The Bruins were playing well and should be a tough team next year

I'm a little worried that Florida could not put Ucla away today. It seems like every time they almost got a stop or back to back buckets they'd screw it up. They did not get separation until the end (of course, that's when it counts). But a better team would have been up double digits with the opportunities Florida had. Also, any word on Boynton?

[Chris Randolph]

Defense. Heart. Intelligence. Brad Stevens. Butler. Winning.

Go Bulldogs!!!!!

[Bob Green]

Defense. Heart. Intelligence. Brad Stevens. Butler. Winning.

Go Bulldogs!!!!!

A very good first half for Butler. They will need to continue to knock down the 3 ball in the second half. Pittsburgh did not look like a #1 seed for major minutes during the first half.

[Chris Randolph]

I hear that Jalen Rose is watching the Pitt/Butler game and says that Butler recruits "Uncle Toms" :p

[Lulu]

hmmm, would I be pulling for Butler quite so much right now had that half-courter fallen last spring?

[77devil]

Mack knew better after last year.

[Lulu]

stunning foul, followed by an even more stunning foul. what in the world.....????????? Didn't notice if it was the same official making both calls, but I think I actually respect that.

[77devil]

Sheldon Mack knew better after last year.

Exceeded in stupidity by the Pitt's Robinson. Refs are not swallowing the whistle in this one.

[weezie]

they must be pumping dopey gas in there

[dukelifer]

Wow! Wow! Wow. Unbelievable ending. That is the most amazing end to a game I have ever seen.

[pfrduke]

Matt Christensen is smiling somewhere. I'm sure the refs will get some flack in the post-game, but they called two obvious fouls - credit to them for not swallowing the whistles.

[House G]

What a phenomenal game by Shelvin Mack (and he almost blew it).

[ChrisP]

Wow. Pitt couldn't even get out of the first weekend of the easiest bracket. Big D'oh to the Big Least...

[DukeFanSince1990]

Stevens told Howard to miss the free throw..........:). He has seen that strategy before!

WHAT A GAME!

[DukeUsul]

I was thinking at first Butler thought refs didn't call fouls in the last couple seconds (based on what they learned last year) when that foul on Mack was called.

I love how Howard "pulled a Zoubek" to ice the game.

[fisheyes]

Absolutely incredible ending to the Butler/Pitt game! We all would have had a lot less stress last March if the refs didn't swallow their whistles on the pick on Singler.

Go Duke!

[1 24 90]

Kudos to the refs for making the correct calls at the end of the game. What a horrible way to lose a game but the calls were correct.

[ChrisP]

I was tired of having to look at that Predator guy on Pitt's team anyway. I picked FL for the FF in my bracket. Didn't want to but hey, maybe I'll get it right.

[InSpades]

Amazing... 2 of the most bone-head plays ever in the last 3 seconds.

The Howard missed free throw was not anything like the Zoub's missed free throw. Up by 1 it's very obvious that you miss (especially w/ so little time). Up by 2 w/ a lot more time... totally different situation.

[Newton_14]

Matt Christensen is smiling somewhere. I'm sure the refs will get some flack in the post-game, but they called two obvious fouls - credit to them for not swallowing the whistles.

I agree 1000%, Finally a ref crew does their job correctly without letting "time remaining" to affect their decisions. Both were clear cut unquestionable fouls. I have no idea what Mack or the Pitt guy were thinking. Two very dumb fouls at the worst possible time.

Credit to the officials. I applaud them.

[dukelifer]

I had Florida at the beginning and managed to drift back to Pitt some. This region is so weak that it's a crapshoot. Gonzaga could very well make the FF. I dont trust a single team here.

Butler is a tough team in the tourney- they play great in the half court and Mack is a great player.

[House G]

And kudos to Brad Stevens for his cool and calm under pressure and for being such a gracious winner.

[gotoguy]

I agree 1000%, Finally a ref crew does their job correctly without letting "time remaining" to affect their decisions. Both were clear cut unquestionable fouls. I have no idea what Mack or the Pitt guy were thinking. Two very dumb fouls at the worst possible time.

Credit to the officials. I applaud them.

Same ref made both calls, Bruce Benedict would have swallowed his whistle.

[devildeac]

Matt Christensen is smiling somewhere. I'm sure the refs will get some flack in the post-game, but they called two obvious fouls - credit to them for not swallowing the whistles.

I doubt Matt Christensen will ever smile about the ending of the Duke-IU game in 2002. :mad:

[1 24 90]

Looking ahead, Butler could have a rematch of last year's elite 8 game with Kansas St. in the Sweet 16.

Even further ahead, how cool would a regional final between Butler vs. BYU/Gonzaga be?

Now that I think about it, BYU beat Florida in the opening round last year and they'll play in the Sweet 16 if BYU holds this lead.

[77devil]

Poor coaching job by Dixon. Pitt commits a shot clock violation on the previous possession, and he should have pulled his guys out the lane after the made free throw or yelled at them to back off if there is a miss.

[Utley]

Steven's comments at the end reminded me of K's after the '92 Kentucky game. He's very impressive.

Madness has never been more applicable.

[arydolphin]

So Butler gets the winner of Kansas State vs. Wisconsin...would you pick either of those teams over Butler right now? Also, it will be BYU vs. Florida unless Gonzaga pulls off a big comeback, getting to see Jimmer play some more will be fun, but Florida will be a tough matchup for them.

[Chris Randolph]

Steven's comments at the end reminded me of K's after the '92 Kentucky game. He's very impressive.

Madness has never been more applicable.

Gotta love Brad Steven's trust and confidence in his entire team. The season is on the line against the #1 seed and he goes to Van Zandt and Smith, not Mack and Howard! Great great coach. Love his demeanor and knowledge. He believes as do his players that they can do anything. Very impressive

The southeast is a wide open race!!!!!!

[dukeblue4ever]

Looking ahead, Butler could have a rematch of last year's elite 8 game with Kansas St. in the Sweet 16.

Even further ahead, how cool would a regional final between Butler vs. BYU/Gonzaga be?

Now that I think about it, BYU beat Florida in the opening round last year and they'll play in the Sweet 16 if BYU holds this lead.Looking even farther ahead, what about a Duke vs. Butler rematch in the finals. That would be a match for the ages...

[Newton_14]

Poor coaching job by Dixon. Pitt commits a shot clock violation on the previous possession, and he should have pulled his guys out the lane after the made free throw or yelled at them to back off if there is a miss.

If you ask him, I imagine he would say he left them there for a potential tip-in to win it should the 2nd free throw miss. Can't say I blame him there. Once the rebound came off the way it did, the Pitt guy should have had the good sense to back out of the way. He had zero chance to do anything beyond foul at that point. I have to put that on the player rather than the coach.

Just a bizarre ending.

[1 24 90]

Looking even farther ahead, what about a Duke vs. Butler rematch in the finals. That would be a match for the ages...

That would be epic!!! I hope you are correct.

[AlaskanAssassin]

Shelvin Mack pulled a Gilbert Arenas by talking to the free throwler. Got him!

[77devil]

If you ask him, I imagine he would say he left them there for a potential tip-in to win it should the 2nd free throw miss. Can't say I blame him there. Once the rebound came off the way it did, the Pitt guy should have had the good sense to back out of the way. He had zero chance to do anything beyond foul at that point. I have to put that on the player rather than the coach.

Just a bizarre ending.

I agree he would say that. But it's obvious in that situation the chance of an extremely unlikely tip in versus a foul is a very poor risk/reward. So if that's his justification, it reinforces that he either knowingly made a bad decision or did not have the presence of mind to instruct his players appropriately. And it's possible they simply didn't follow his instruction.

[mgtr]

The ending of the game was absolutely amazing. However, Pitt showed (at least to me) that they were by far the weakest 1 seed. Given the way they ended their season, I didn't understand how they earned a 1. I guess I will continue to pull for
Butler for a while.

[gotoguy]

Steven's comments at the end reminded me of K's after the '92 Kentucky game. He's very impressive.

Madness has never been more applicable.


Great shot of the Butler post game celebration on TBS in the locker room with Coach Stevens doing a body bump with one of the players and then leading the team in the Bulldog fight song. Awesome! How can you not cheer for those guys.

[Zerogee]

I doubt Matt Christensen will ever smile about the ending of the Duke-IU game in 2002. :mad:

Off-thread but not worthy of a thread by itself, I'll just throw this anecdote in here since Christiansen was brought up -

On April 11 Matt is giving a talk about "Investing in Disruptive Public Equities" to the Harvard Business School Forum for Disruptive Innovation (or something like that). He's the CEO and Portfolio Manager of Rose Park Advisors, an investing firm his father - the famous Clay Christiansen - created. I ran into him at the gym at HBS a few years ago and he said he was in charge of it. So of the Duke basketball players who didn't make it professionally, he's likely in the top 1 percentile for future earnings. It helps when your father is one of the most famous business theoreticians in the world, I guess :-)

[Newton_14]

I agree he would say that. But it's obvious in that situation the chance of an extremely unlikely tip in versus a foul is a very poor risk/reward. So if that's his justification, it reinforces that he either knowingly made a bad decision or did not have the presence of mind to instruct his players appropriately. And it's possible they simply didn't follow his instruction.

Tough call either way. I am not trying to be argumentative, and you make a good point. Given how Pitt was able to tie the game, I would personally be ok with taking my chance in OT, and like you say, after the first free throw goes in, pull my guys out of there. At worst you go to OT.

A crazy ending, but at the end of the day, both of those fouls were bonehead plays by upperclassmen.

[dukelifer]

Jimmer is playing at a high level. He can carry a team.

[dukeimac]

First, I would not have called the foul on the Butler guy because the Pitt guy didn't have the ball in his hands log enough for a foul to be committed. The Pitt guy was out of control. But they call it and there you have it.

After the Pitt guy made the free throw I was yelling at the TV (my wife thought I was nuts, again and I have a friend who is a big Pitt fan) to get the guys out of the lane. The biggest problem I beleive Pitt has is most of their players are not very smart guys and stupid foul is only an arms length away. And be damned, Howard grabbed the ball and through it accross the chest of a Pitt player and got the call. I knew that would happen and Dixon has no one to blame but himself. He had over time in his hands and he didn't do the right thing, no Pitt player should have been in the lane after they made the tying free throw.

This lies on Dixon...

And this was his best shot to get to a final four. He can get them to the dance but he cant' get them over the hump.

[Chris Randolph]

First, I would not have called the foul on the Butler guy because the Pitt guy didn't have the ball in his hands log enough for a foul to be committed. The Pitt guy was out of control. But they call it and there you have it.

After the Pitt guy made the free throw I was yelling at the TV (my wife thought I was nuts, again and I have a friend who is a big Pitt fan) to get the guys out of the lane. The biggest problem I beleive Pitt has is most of their players are not very smart guys and stupid foul is only an arms length away. And be damned, Howard grabbed the ball and through it accross the chest of a Pitt player and got the call. I knew that would happen and Dixon has no one to blame but himself. He had over time in his hands and he didn't do the right thing, no Pitt player should have been in the lane after they made the tying free throw.

This lies on Dixon...

And this was his best shot to get to a final four. He can get them to the dance but he cant' get them over the hump.

A foul is a foul, ball in hand or not. Refs made 2 very good calls in a big time pressure situation (exactly what they are paid to do).

Its soooooo easy to say that Pitt should have removed players from the lane lines. I don't fault Dixon at all for not doing so. The free throw shooter is used to having guys around the lane all year long, plus a long rebound is a possibility. Sure you can say "well he missed it so that stuff doesn't matter" but I see no problem with what Dixon did

[loran16]

First, I would not have called the foul on the Butler guy because the Pitt guy didn't have the ball in his hands log enough for a foul to be committed. The Pitt guy was out of control. But they call it and there you have it.

After the Pitt guy made the free throw I was yelling at the TV (my wife thought I was nuts, again and I have a friend who is a big Pitt fan) to get the guys out of the lane. The biggest problem I beleive Pitt has is most of their players are not very smart guys and stupid foul is only an arms length away. And be damned, Howard grabbed the ball and through it accross the chest of a Pitt player and got the call. I knew that would happen and Dixon has no one to blame but himself. He had over time in his hands and he didn't do the right thing, no Pitt player should have been in the lane after they made the tying free throw.

This lies on Dixon...

And this was his best shot to get to a final four. He can get them to the dance but he cant' get them over the hump.

Nah you had to call the foul....The Pitt player had the ball, and the contact seemed to push him OOB. While the Ref would settle some contact, that one would have changed the game non-called.

Both calls were correct. Both fouls were unbelievable. However, in the end, the right team won.

[dukeimac]

As a ref myself, I would not have called the Butler foul because we are taught the person with the ball needs to be under control for a defender to gain control of the situation, which results in a foul.

A foul is when one person gains an advantage by performing an action that takes advantage of a person who is under control. The Pitt player wasn't under control.

Having said that, so be it, the refs called it.

But once the game is tied and you have overtime in hand, why risk it? I would say of my life time of refing, I've seen similar situations and 49 out of 50 times the coach removes his players from the foul line. And this was the only time and we saw what happened. Of the 49 other times, they went to over time. No loss, no miracle shot. As I said, most of the Pitt players are not very bright guys and I could see them doing something dumb, like they did. The other day, I told my Pitt buddy that I don't think McGhee could pass 8th grade science class today.

[77devil]

As a ref myself, I would not have called the Butler foul because we are taught the person with the ball needs to be under control for a defender to gain control of the situation, which results in a foul.

A foul is when one person gains an advantage by performing an action that takes advantage of a person who is under control. The Pitt player wasn't under control.

Having said that, so be it, the refs called it.

But once the game is tied and you have overtime in hand, why risk it? I would say of my life time of refing, I've seen similar situations and 49 out of 50 times the coach removes his players from the foul line. And this was the only time and we saw what happened. Of the 49 other times, they went to over time. No loss, no miracle shot. As I said, most of the Pitt players are not very bright guys and I could see them doing something dumb, like they did. The other day, I told my Pitt buddy that I don't think McGhee could pass 8th grade science class today.

Well, maybe the rules are different at the level that you officiate. The NCAA supervisor of officials was on the post game show and stated unequivocally that under the rules both were fouls, were called properly, and it was the primary point of emphasis this season to follow the rule book regardless of the situation, i.e., no swallowing the whistle.

[dukeimac]

I watched the same segment, but i noticed something. In the past, when such calls were under the microscope, I noticed the person state the rule first and use the rule to justify the call.

Did you notice the he never mentioned the rule?

I do college games and have been invited to many tourament games. I believe, many more games than you.

[ncexnyc]

It's funny that we're discussing this play as our team has been involved with two similar plays during the ACC Tournament. On one play the refs didn't make any call and the other the foul went against us. In the Friday night game Kyle stole the ball from a Maryland player and pushes it ahead to himself. He starts his dribble and the Maryland player hits him from behind. This resulted in the loose ball scrum where Mason made the heads up timeout call. The second play happened in Sunday's game at the end of the first half. Nolan looses control of the ball. The ball gets knocked towards our end of the court. McDonald and Kyle both go for the ball and collide, yet Kyle gets whistled for the foul.

[Dukefan1.0]

I believe the players did decide the game. They fouled. Both Mack and Robinson made mental mistakes. So this notion that the refs decided the game is nonsense. The players decided this game by making mental mistakes that is all that happened.

[DevilWearsPrada]

I love the Butler Bulldogs and their Coach. And I had Butler winning over Pitt in this game! Big East... pack and go home! Punch a card to the Sweet 16 ! Gotta love the Butler!

[sporthenry]

I think the foul calls were fine and I don't hear too much from analysts or Pitt fans (although not sure where I'd hear Pitt fans) about it being a bad call. And even if the Pitt player didn't get possession, Mack still committed a loose ball foul.

But I don't like Butler mainly b/c of Howard. Stevens is obviously great but I guess Howard is that guy that you love to have but hate to play. He just irks me with his flopping and borderline dirty play such as the moving screen. People say Duke flops, well Howard appeared to be late on every charge. And then you body him up in the post, and he flails around and most officials are baited into making a call.

[sbroc012]

I think the foul calls were fine and I don't hear too much from analysts or Pitt fans (although not sure where I'd hear Pitt fans) about it being a bad call. And even if the Pitt player didn't get possession, Mack still committed a loose ball foul.

But I don't like Butler mainly b/c of Howard. Stevens is obviously great but I guess Howard is that guy that you love to have but hate to play. He just irks me with his flopping and borderline dirty play such as the moving screen. People say Duke flops, well Howard appeared to be late on every charge. And then you body him up in the post, and he flails around and most officials are baited into making a call.

I can agree with you about Howard...I am an ODU student and went to the first round game...let me tell you, he would be playing defense on our bigs and as soon as they made contact he would flail and embellish and it resulted in a couple of offensive fouls, and then when ODU was on defense if you touched the guy he was flailing and gettin the favorable calls. It was very frustrating especially for an ODU team who liked to play physical.
On the otherhand, I really have come to like their coach, Stevens, he is a class act and really knows the game and how to handle himself, he even said after the Pitt game that they are not necessarily better than Pitt or ODU they just happened to have the last possession.

[House G]

While I happen to agree with both calls, this guy obviously doesn't:

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/story/14834125/unusual-finish-leads-to-usual-result-a-pitt-fall

[gw67]

This region appears to be wide open. Anyone of the four remaining teams (Butler, Wisconsin, BYU or Florida) could win it. The Butler win was amazing and has been discussed at length in this thread. Wisconsin pulled out a win against Kansas State in an exciting and well-played game. They won despite a poor shooting game by their good point guard, Taylor, and an off-the-charts game by K-State's Pullen. I like the Badgers in their matchup with Butler.

BYU took it to the Zags with Fredette having another outstanding game, 34 points and 6 assists. Florida defeated UCLA in a fun game to watch. They have a small guard, Walker, who made some amazing shots. A single player can only carry a team so far and I see the bigger, stronger Gators winning over BYU.

gw67

[77devil]

I watched the same segment, but i noticed something. In the past, when such calls were under the microscope, I noticed the person state the rule first and use the rule to justify the call.

Did you notice the he never mentioned the rule?

I do college games and have been invited to many tourament games. I believe, many more games than you.

I presume you are suggesting the NCAA supervisor of officials actually disagreed with the call(s), but was covering for the officiating crew on national TV. Is that your contention? Otherwise, I have no idea what you are trying, rather obliquely, to assert.

[dukeimac]

Not being mean or anything here but [Howard] has no foot speed, not even slow. He has finally gotten his foul issues under control. Last year, up until the Big Dance, I think he fouled out of like 2/3 of the games he played in. Not a guy I would like to see on any team I cheer for.

As for their coach, I think he would make a perfect replacement for Coach K. Not saying his assistances or Johny D wouldn't be good replacements but I think this guy would be the likely candidate if they go "outside" the Duke family.

[gw67]

Not being mean or anything here but [Howard] has no foot speed, not even slow. He has finally gotten his foul issues under control. Last year, up until the Big Dance, I think he fouled out of like 2/3 of the games he played in. Not a guy I would like to see on any team I cheer for.

As for their coach, I think he would make a perfect replacement for Coach K. Not saying his assistances or Johny D wouldn't be good replacements but I think this guy would be the likely candidate if they go "outside" the Duke family.

Where the heck did that first comment come from? I suspect that Howard wouldn't want you cheering for his team either but who knows? He is typical of many youngsters on teams like Butler. They were overlooked by schools from bigger conferences because they are too short or not quite "athletic enough" even though they are good players. In Howard's case, he has been a four-year starter, a conference POY and is the leading scorer and rebounder on this year's team. He may not be a decathlete but he is hard working and a good basketball player. He will have his hands full going up against the Wisconsin front court made up of a bunch of "typical slow white guys". Based on what I saw today against K-State, they too can play basketball.

gw67

[JMarley50]

Not being mean or anything here but [Howard] has no foot speed, not even slow. He has finally gotten his foul issues under control. Last year, up until the Big Dance, I think he fouled out of like 2/3 of the games he played in. Not a guy I would like to see on any team I cheer for.

As for their coach, I think he would make a perfect replacement for Coach K. Not saying his assistances or Johny D wouldn't be good replacements but I think this guy would be the likely candidate if they go "outside" the Duke family.


Really?? He's a big guy. How many big guys do you know or see that have really great foot speed? I assure you... only a few exist. He plays very smart in my book, which makes up for weaknesses in athletic ability in many cases.

Why wouldn't you want him on your team? Have you not noticed he's made the game winning shots in the first two games? He's a winner and has a motor that won't stop. I would love to have him on my team.

I'm not even sure what "assistances" means...

[JMarley50]

Not being mean or anything here but [Howard] has no foot speed, not even slow. He has finally gotten his foul issues under control. Last year, up until the Big Dance, I think he fouled out of like 2/3 of the games he played in. Not a guy I would like to see on any team I cheer for.

As for their coach, I think he would make a perfect replacement for Coach K. Not saying his assistances or Johny D wouldn't be good replacements but I think this guy would be the likely candidate if they go "outside" the Duke family.

I suppose you think white men can't jump either.....:rolleyes:

[bluepenguin]

How cool would it be to see a Duke-Butler final again!

[Utley]

How cool would it be to see a Duke-Butler final again!

Very cool because it means were in the Finals again!

[Utley]

I was thinking today about how well Butler executed their last shot in bounds play last night versus last year (the layup to their center). I think we deserve credit for making last year title game's well executed play a failure.