Clemson vs UNC ACCT

[Gthoma2a]

Clemson is looking like a different team out there. They are outrunning UNC.

[Atlanta Duke]

So did Miami for the first 30 minutes :)

I will believe UNC is in trouble only when the game ends and they still have less points

[Ultrarunner]

I refuse to get excited until there's two seconds left and a 5 point lead in Clemson's favor. UNC has been making a habit of coming back from way back and Clemson has a long and inglorious history against the Tarheels.

[Gthoma2a]

So did Miami for the first 30 minutes :)

I will believe UNC is in trouble only when the game ends and they still have less points

Yeah, I was unable to see that one (I was at work listening on "Tarheel Radio" as quietly as possible so I could limit the damage to my IQ). I heard the pain in the unprofessional broadcast team's voices, so I figured they did. I nearly threw up when I went out to eat last night and saw Zeller's shot. It had sounded so promising early.

[hurleyfor3]

I'm done getting burned watching unc hoping they'll lose. I've got on the exciting BU/Stony Brook game, to be followed by the MEAC championship.

[Gthoma2a]

I'm done getting burned watching unc hoping they'll lose. I've got on the exciting BU/Stony Brook game, to be followed by the MEAC championship.

Even if they don't lose, they are turning the ball over at a rate that is almost assembly line efficient.

[anon]

All right Tigers, close it out now!

[DukieInBrasil]

I continue to be blown away by how often guards set up to allow Marshall to go left. Seth was guilty of it several times. And the closing play of the half the Clemson guard set up to let KM go left. No. Never, ever let KM go left by design. Always try to force him to the right. If we play UNC again, I really hope that all of our guards have that relentlessly beaten into their heads.
Otherwise, Clemson is executing their game plan very well. This could be their chance to break the curse.

[lotusland]

Clemson is decent. They played Duke coming off the VT loss on Senior night so this totally different. That said they don't have reliable scoring so this is nowhere near over.

[DukieInBrasil]

All right Tigers, close it out now!

Clemson got a tough break by getting called for a travel by slipping on some sweat, taking away their chance for a shot. Then, their guard failed to do what always must be done against Marshall, force him to the right, and by going left KM was able to get off a really nice pass for the assist to TZ for the score.

[dukebluesincebirth]

Again, Harrison Barnes playing well and unc losing. This is the trend I'd like to see continue as Harrison would go to the NBA and unc wouldn't make the final 4.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

I noticed something about the way Henson guards the inbounds. He starts back where they tell him to, but he creeps up slowly to the line and when he jumps, he's coming down out of bounds. He's closing the gap btw him the inbounding player. But of course they say nothing. the Clemson player was complaining about it a few minutes ago but they do nothing.

[davekay1971]

Here's a shocker (well, it's a shocker if you've never watched a Clemson-UNC basketball game). Clemson playing well, Carolina down in the second half, and the game turns into a parade of Tarheels stepping up to the free throw line. 17 free throw attempts for Carolina to 8 for Clemson. Makes it 74 for Carolina to 35 for Clemson on the season series to date...

[sporthenry]

Here's a shocker (well, it's a shocker if you've never watched a Clemson-UNC basketball game). Clemson playing well, Carolina down in the second half, and the game turns into a parade of Tarheels stepping up to the free throw line. 17 free throw attempts for Carolina to 8 for Clemson. Makes it 74 for Carolina to 35 for Clemson on the season series to date...

In the bonus with 11:25 left in the second half.

[Lord Ash]

Eh, Carolina will win. Hell, if you round off to the nearest second Miami led for 40 minutes against Carolina, and Carolina lead for 0 minutes and 0 seconds... and UNC won.

[anon]

Clemson is fighting! Roy did not expect this.

[Duke79UNLV77]

Unc leads the acc in ft differential year after year. Even last year at 5-11.
Duke hasn't led once in the last decade.

[kong123]

Unc leads the acc in ft differential year after year. Even last year at 5-11.
Duke hasn't led once in the last decade.

you don't get fouled when 37% your shots are 3's and a bit more are jump shots. that's simple math.

[DukieInBrasil]

color me impressed with Clemson's resolve. They let their big lead slip all the way to UNC going up by 1 and they responded big-time, reclaimed the lead and have been attacking UNC relentlessly. They haven't come up with a way to stop UNC on O, but they haven't wilted and continue to play hard.

[kong123]

9 for 14 from three will keep a team that scores with 2's from coming back. This one isn't looking good, but I think they will still find a way.

[lotusland]

9 for 14 from three will keep a team that scores with 2's from coming back. This one isn't looking good, but I think they will still find a way.

me too.

[Delaware]

In the bonus with 11:25 left in the second half.

and double bonus with 10 min left...

[sporthenry]

And Len Elmore trying to tell me that KM missed a layup on purpose.

[lotusland]

Heels are tough to close out. Can't let Marshall in the lane but you can't let HB open for three. Here's hoping Strickland has the ball in his hands a lot from here on out.

[lotusland]

And Len Elmore trying to tell me that KM missed a layup on purpose.

Gmisnski said the same. I'd say he shot it knowing Henson was there to pick up the change.

[sporthenry]

Gmisnski said the same. I'd say he shot it knowing Henson was there to pick up the change.

Yeah, I don't think you miss the layup on purpose b/c there is no guarantee if Henson gets it. Not to mention, it isn't like KM hasn't had stat lines like this. Last game 2-9, vs. Duke 3-11, etc.

[sporthenry]

They keep the possession arrow though right? And 3 timeouts, the offense going nowhere, thats bad coaching.

And that is more terrible coaching. You don't get to bring your timeouts home.

[kong123]

the cardiac heels

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Really? A fade away jumper?

[SMO]

They keep the possession arrow though right? And 3 timeouts, the offense going nowhere, thats bad coaching.

And that is more terrible coaching. You don't get to bring your timeouts home.

Arguably the worst end of game possession I've ever seen by a team. What was that???

[Orange&BlackSheep]

when they broke the press and pulled it back out ... I just knew it was going to be ugly.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

the cardiac heels

Cardiac refs

[roywhite]

Dang Clemson!

Last two possessions, they don't even get a decent shot. O/T. :(

[lotusland]

Clemson a little shaky on in there stall ball but credit to the Heels for their last 2 posessions. HB hit a tough 3 and Zeller made a tough jump hook. Clemson defended about as well as possible.

[DukieInBrasil]

while Clemson did well enough to get to OT, that last possession by Stitt was just pathetic. He waited too long dribbling around rather than probing and attacking and ended up settling for just a terrible shot.
Once again UNC comes up with some last minute magic to stave off the loss at least until OT. Who knows they may yet pull out the win. Are they the new "Cardiac Kids"?

[juise]

Why was Roy taking Henson out on defense and then subbing him in when the Heels get the ball back? Wasn't he the conference's DPOY?

[ajgoodfella7]

I think I know where Roy Williams keeps his horseshoe.

[FellowTraveler]

Teams clinging to a small lead late against UNC would be wise to run their regular offense rather than try to run time down. UNC is going to score when they get the ball, so you better put some points on the board.

Clemson was scoring effectively until they decided to take the air out of the ball.

[ajgoodfella7]

Why was Roy taking Henson out on defense and then subbing him in when the Heels get the ball back? Wasn't he the conference's DPOY?

I think he had an injury and the refs stopped the clock for him to get off the floor.

[Duke79UNLV77]

you don't get fouled when 37% your shots are 3's and a bit more are jump shots. that's simple math.

Yes, drew and graves put pressure on defenses last year that boozer, j will, shlelden, reddick, nelson, gerald, and nolan could never hope to match. A 5-11 team easily leading the conference in ft differential is shocking, and very telling.

[dukelifer]

Clemson is done!

[sporthenry]

This game is over. Do the other ACC teams just like to show they can play with UNC then lose? Although it appears HB should be all but gone unless the NBA locks out.

I will say that UNC seems to have hit their wall. I no longer give them FF contender status. These starts will put them in a hole and they will find a team that doesn't collapse at the end.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

And what about the coaching? Brownell had 4 timeouts and didn't use one. I know it gives Henson a chance to guard but c'mon.

[SMO]

Clemson is done!

Looks like it. They look completely gassed, which is surprising given UNC's lack of depth.

[kong123]

Yes, drew and graves put pressure on defenses last year that boozer, j will, shlelden, reddick, nelson, gerald, and nolan could never hope to match. A 5-11 team easily leading the conference in ft differential is shocking, and very telling.

The scoring for last years team came from the front court. If you fail to see that, there is no helping you. You can claim the stat all you want, but for it to be valid, you have to actually have all the facts.

[ncexnyc]

I'm a firm believer in the saying, "Good teams make their own luck" and that's why I didn't say much after yesterday's first game, but this is a joke. Another choke job in the making.

High percentage FT shooters missing. Silly turnovers time after time. Carolina running the same play time after time and no one can stop it. Barnes going for a steal and tripping the guy from behind and no call. Is this thing scripted?

[juise]

I think he had an injury and the refs stopped the clock for him to get off the floor.

Thanks. I've got the volume off and have been tending to an infant, so I missed what happened.

[killerleft]

Clemson got hosed on shot clock violation play. Henson had control of the ball before the clock ran out. The tie-up was legitimate. And the play was reviewable.

[DukieInBrasil]

I don't know, maybe Clemson just doesn't want to win vs UNC? Maybe they are just pretending that they want to win b/c they are an ACC opponent but secretly, deep down inside they really hate themselves and just have an overwhelming preference for losing to UNC. There is no other explanation for the type of futility they constantly show vs the Heels.

[gumbomoop]

UNC's hustle and smarts very impressive. Heels go after loose balls, Tigers watch. I haven't seen Tanner Smith block out once all game.

Only way UNC loses is if they panic the way Clemson has. Unlikely.

[FellowTraveler]

Clemson got hosed on shot clock violation play. Henson had control of the ball before the clock ran out. The tie-up was legitimate. And the play was reviewable.

Agree.

[karmacoma]

First Miami, now Clemson. Both had Carolina dead to rights, both just utterly failed to seal the deal. Why have these two teams just absolutely, comletely wilted down the stretch? And why does it feel like you can predict it happening, once the momentum turns? I'm actually asking these questions seriously, even though I realize it's kinda silly. Is it psychological -- the undergod starts getting tight as it starts thinking, "holy cow, we actually have a chance to win this thing! Better not screw up!" Poor execution? Poor coaching? In the case of Clemson, an inability to overcome their historical futility against Carolina? Thoughts?

[dukelifer]

I don't know, maybe Clemson just doesn't want to win vs UNC? Maybe they are just pretending that they want to win b/c they are an ACC opponent but secretly, deep down inside they really hate themselves and just have an overwhelming preference for losing to UNC. There is no other explanation for the type of futility they constantly show vs the Heels.

Clemson did not execute- but UNC did and every single time. This team is like a cockroach- they cannot be killed. I am telling you. Barnes is showing everything in his arsenal right now. Kid has a knack for hitting big shots.

[kong123]

I am glad HB went to UNC

[turnandburn55]

Surprising that the two teams are almost exactly even on the boards. Feels like the Holes are getting an offensive board on every possession.

[SCMatt33]

What's telling to me is that UNC is a 33% 3-point team on the year, who is barely beating mediocre competition by shooting 47% from three, while taking 18 of them per game, so its not like they're shooting 4/9 each game and it's not a factor.

[dukelifer]

I am glad HB went to UNC

I will be glad when he gone next year.

[lotusland]

Depsite the meltdown Clemson has to be in after today.

Duke's turn to earn a rubber match.

[sporthenry]

I will be glad when he gone next year.

I think we need all Duke execs to talk this kid up. Billy King, Danny Ferry, lets make sure he knows he is a top 5 pick.

[SMO]

I will be glad when he gone next year.

I'm actually kind of glad he's gotten better to ensure his departure. Can't turn down being drafted #5-8!

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Well, at least they're tiring out the heels a little more.

[Mike Corey]

Stop Kendall Marshall, dUNCe becomes a very mediocre basketball team.

[Son of Mojo]

unc never deserves to win a game. Ever. Nothing will ever change this. But Clemson definitely didn't deserve to win after just self-destructing like Miami did yesterday. How do you NOT call a TO in the last 30 seconds of regulation in a tied game when you have the ball and THREE time outs to set up a play?!?!?!? To me that's a must to give the direct instruction to your kids about what you want them to do. Truly what the expression "epic fail" was created to represent...........

[gumbomoop]

First Miami, now Clemson. Both had Carolina dead to rights, both just utterly failed to seal the deal. Why have these two teams just absolutely, comletely wilted down the stretch? And why does it feel like you can predict it happening, once the momentum turns? I'm actually asking these questions seriously, even though I realize it's kinda silly. Is it psychological -- the undergod starts getting tight as it starts thinking, "holy cow, we actually have a chance to win this thing! Better not screw up!" Poor execution? Poor coaching? In the case of Clemson, an inability to overcome their historical futility against Carolina? Thoughts?

IMO, many players simply do not understand how to play the game, in the many details that make the difference between winning and losing, esp in tight situations. UNC and its end-game "tradition" is built on an understanding of relatively high % offense, and game-tested defensive pressure. They always have players who are very capable of executing.

Clemson today and Miami yesterday were - metaphorically and close to literally - clueless. It doesn't mean it was impossible for either the Canes or Tigers to win, just very unlikely.

I fully admit it's easy to assert this now, as opposed to, say, as UNC was closing the gap on the Canes yesterday.

[dairedevil]

Wow - Barnes scored 40 pts. Where would the heels be without him?

[FellowTraveler]

Carolina has been very good offensively during these two comebacks. Defensively, however, they've been helped out by spectacular collapses by the opposition. Add in UVA's collapse against Miami, and this has been an exciting tournament, but not one that does much to impress anyone who has been skeptical of the ACC. A lot of teams have been downright awful when they could have escaped with a win had they been merely bad.

[fgb]

:rolleyes:

I'm still not convinced UNC is as good as much as it is that the teams they are playing are bad.

agree. they have just barely beaten a couple of teams that are not going to make the field of however many it is now, and for very good reason.

[DukieInKansas]

I am glad HB went to UNC

So am I. I like the Duke team we have. The only thing I would add to our current team is a healthy Kyrie Iring.

[kong123]

Luckily for UNC, they come out strong against Duke. Its Duke that hasn't started well in the two prior games.

[RoyalBlue08]

I am glad HB went to UNC

I can't count the number of times I have said this to myself.

[Delaware]

Clemson got hosed on shot clock violation play. Henson had control of the ball before the clock ran out. The tie-up was legitimate. And the play was reviewable.

Very true. That play and the stuuuppid offensive set on the last Clemson possession of regulation (Why not run the high screen that got Stitt in the lane all day!!!) just killed Clemson.

[SMO]

Luckily for UNC, they come out strong against Duke. Its Duke that hasn't started well in the two prior games.

n=2. I guess you can put it in the bank then.

[karmacoma]

IMO, many players simply do not understand how to play the game, in the many details that make the difference between winning and losing, esp in tight situations. UNC and its end-game "tradition" is built on an understanding of relatively high % offense, and game-tested defensive pressure. They always have players who are very capable of executing.

Clemson today and Miami yesterday were - metaphorically and close to literally - clueless. It doesn't mean it was impossible for either the Canes or Tigers to win, just very unlikely.

I fully admit it's easy to assert this now, as opposed to, say, as UNC was closing the gap on the Canes yesterday.

Interesting thoughts, thanks for the response. And thanks for not pointing out my typos, including the most excellent "undergod." Like a demi-god, but different.

[BattierBattalion]

Wow, Carolina's luck has to be running out soon, right? RIGHT?

[juise]

I am glad HB went to UNC

As glad as you are to have him, I will am equally glad that he has played his way back into the 2011 draft. I eagerly look forward to his declaration to enter.

[arnie]

IMO, many players simply do not understand how to play the game, in the many details that make the difference between winning and losing, esp in tight situations. UNC and its end-game "tradition" is built on an understanding of relatively high % offense, and game-tested defensive pressure. They always have players who are very capable of executing.

Clemson today and Miami yesterday were - metaphorically and close to literally - clueless. It doesn't mean it was impossible for either the Canes or Tigers to win, just very unlikely.

I fully admit it's easy to assert this now, as opposed to, say, as UNC was closing the gap on the Canes yesterday.

After watching the latest Clempsun meltdown - they should disband the b-ball program. Never been any good and never will.

[dukelilsis]

1. I'm also glad Barnes went to unc. His self absorbtion would've never fit it at Duke.

2. When Clemson got hosed on the held ball call, I knew they were done. You can beat 5 players but it's extremely difficult to beat 8.

3. In answer to "Is this scripted?" Yes, I believe it is. (Alright, maybe I'm a bit over the top with my antihole attitude.)

4. True story: Yesterday, I watched a one year old stick her hand in the back of her diaper, pull it out and wipe "what she had found" on the carolina shirt she was wearing. It was the most enjoyable experience I've ever had at work.;)

GTHC

[Duke79UNLV77]

The scoring for last years team came from the front court. If you fail to see that, there is no helping you. You can claim the stat all you want, but for it to be valid, you have to actually have all the facts.

The stats are a fact. And, it's a fact that Zeller and Henson, while effective, are finesse players. Barnes is primarily a jump shooter, Strickland is effective in the open court but doesn't pressure a defense in the half court, and Marshall is a great passer but not very quick.

Al Featherston had a great multi-year statistical study on fouls. Not surprisingly, the teams that won the most typically had the best differential. Guess who outperformed the statistical prediction? Yes, UNC.

At 5-11 leading the conference in FT differential? That loses credibility.

People also like to ignore the fact that Duke has had the best collection of penetrators to attack defenses in the ACC over the last 20 years. And, yet, we haven't led the conference in FT differential once in the last decade. State school preference.

[#1Duke]

Wow, Carolina's luck has to be running out soon, right? RIGHT?

One game maybe two games is luck. When it gets to 5 games, 6 games, etc. there is more to it than luck.
UNC has matured as a team and are not to be taken as lightly as counting their wins as luck.
Know your opponent and their capabilities and face them heads up.
I am SURE that is what Coach K. is going to do after we beat Va. Tech and meet the Heels tomorrow.

[YourLandlord]

This UNC team stands no chance in a 6 game tournament against top-25 teams.

[ncexnyc]

agree. they have just barely beaten a couple of teams that are not going to make the field of however many it is now, and for very good reason.
My co-workers who are heel fans try to discount our Championship by saying something similar. I get tired of hearing it at work and honestly I get tired of people trying to do the same on this board when talking about the heels season. Is it really so difficult to admit they're a very good team? And please don't run out that lame, the ACC is down line, as we happen to play in the ACC.

Let's just take care of the Hokies and we'll have our rasslin tag team championship main event, two out of three falls finale. So we can settle this once and for all.

[YourLandlord]

One game maybe two games is luck. When it gets to 5 games, 6 games, etc. there is more to it than luck.

The shocking thing isn't their comebacks, it is how poorly they have played at the beginning of games. The last 20 minutes is the true talent level of this team, not the first 20. So why are they playing so poorly the first half of games before needing to come back? Hint: has to do with the white haired guy in crappy ties pacing the sidelines.

[#1Duke]

1. I'm also glad Barnes went to unc. His self absorbtion would've never fit it at Duke.

Coach K. was not. He wanted Barnes badly and thought he would fit in just fine.


2. When Clemson got hosed on the held ball call, I knew they were done. You can beat 5 players but it's extremely difficult to beat 8.

I watched it several times, it was the correct call. There was no possession before the shot clock ran out.


3. In answer to "Is this scripted?" Yes, I believe it is. (Alright, maybe I'm a bit over the top with my antihole attitude.)

No, I don't think it is scripted. Some immature UNC fans said the same thing last year.


4. True story: Yesterday, I watched a one year old stick her hand in the back of her diaper, pull it out and wipe "what she had found" on the carolina shirt she was wearing. It was the most enjoyable experience I've ever had at work.;)

Cool!

GTHC

[Chris Randolph]

The key is not so much stopping Marshall. You've got to stop/contain Barnes. You have to force Marshall right (I cannot understand why teams just let him bring it up with his left hand, baffling to me).

For those saying they wouldn't take Barnes, lol. Kid is a stud, took awhile this year, but he is a flat out star. I'd take him, no question. He doesn't have half the arrogance/attitude that Redick had in his younger Duke days but nobody was complaining then.

Sure, you could say UNC is lucky to be making these comebacks and they can't continue to start off slow because the better teams won't crumble in the end. But UNC continues to find a way to win and something must be said for that

[gumbomoop]

agree. they have just barely beaten a couple of teams that are not going to make the field of however many it is now, and for very good reason.

I'll be surprised if Clemson fails to make the field.

It's sort of good news/bad news for the Heels, with the emphasis on good. They keep winning the close ones, and that counts a lot in my view. If one wants to say, "Yeah, but look who they're beating," well, Duke for one. I do agree that neither Miami nor Clemson appear to be as talented as a fair number of NCAAT teams, but they're not absolute dogs, either.

For the most obvious of reasons, I sure hope the Devils and Heels get a chance to settle things tomorrow.

[davekay1971]

you don't get fouled when 37% your shots are 3's and a bit more are jump shots. that's simple math.

That doesn't begin to explain Carolina's annual advantage at the charity stripe. Plenty of ACC teams work the paint at least as much as Carolina, but Carolina still leads the league in ref differential. Your reply is a pithy one typical of Carolina fans. You're (usually) better than that.

Final tally tonight: 34 FTA for Carolina, 16 for Clemson. A 2:1 advantage for Carolina. 36% of Clemson's FG attempts were 3s. 26% of Carolina's were 3s. Does that disparity account for a 2:1 FTA advantage for Carolina?

[dukelifer]

I'm actually kind of glad he's gotten better to ensure his departure. Can't turn down being drafted #5-8!

Keep up this scoring and he is a 1-3 pick.

[BlueThru&Thru]

Wow, Carolina's luck has to be running out soon, right? RIGHT?

Your footer is becoming outdated:cool:

[sporthenry]

And I will say that it is pretty ridiculous that HB isn't a top 5 lock at this point. In ACC play, he is averaging 17.4 points and since the first Duke game, he is averaging 19.8 points. If he had started out the season this way, he'd prob be the first pick. Yet somehow, he will never live up to expectation b/c he had such a poor start. And some drafts somehow have Perry Jones ahead of HB who is averaging 11.3 over his last 8. And Terrence Jones has also fallen off recently. Wouldn't recent success be a better indication b/c while HB needed time to get comfortable, it shows he can adapt while the other players struggle against the way opponents are now guarding them.

[BattierBattalion]

We'd take Barnes in a heartbeat despite his ego being the size of Jupiter. (Quick story: My UNC-attending sister said that there was a letter to the Daily Tar Heel that said, "Dear Harrison Barnes, stop Googling yourself in class.")

Yeah, agree, Carolina is legit. If they can focus and do not tire out, they should do some damage in the NCAAT.

[Papa John]

Is it really so difficult to admit they're a very good team? And please don't run out that lame, the ACC is down line, as we happen to play in the ACC.

Not only that, but we finished 2nd in the regular season in the down ACC to those hated Heels. I'll admit it -- they're a good team. They've really matured. And I hope they get their asses handed to them in round 1 or 2 next week...

[dukelifer]

The key is not so much stopping Marshall. You've got to stop/contain Barnes. You have to force Marshall right (I cannot understand why teams just let him bring it up with his left hand, baffling to me).

For those saying they wouldn't take Barnes, lol. Kid is a stud, took awhile this year, but he is a flat out star. I'd take him, no question. He doesn't have half the arrogance/attitude that Redick had in his younger Duke days but nobody was complaining then.

Sure, you could say UNC is lucky to be making these comebacks and they can't continue to start off slow because the better teams won't crumble in the end. But UNC continues to find a way to win and something must be said for that

Winning in crunch time is what the tourney is all about. This team has the ability. Several of the their players play their best under pressure. A really good team might not fail to execute as we saw Miami and Clemson do in these games - but pressure is pressure and my sense is that when a team is close in the final minute- it is anyone's game. UNC has won them all this year and so they are showing that this is more than luck now- they are showing a knack to win. Except for their lack of depth- they are very dangerous.

[sporthenry]

Apart from Duke, I haven't seen UNC start well against anyone. Their MO seems to be, keep it close, have HB hit some shots to keep it close, and then take advantage of the other team's mistakes.
So when this team goes up against a Texas, Kansas, Ohio State or even possibly a Wisconsin, they won't get the same reprieve the ACC gives them.

[davekay1971]

I am glad HB went to UNC

Me too. I wouldn't want the Duke fans to be put in the unenviable position of having to decide whether or not to embrace the absolute worst self-appointed nickname in the history of basketball. Credit the Tarheel fans for sacrificing every ounce of pride they had and eagerly stepping up to stroke the kid's ego. If he'd gone to Duke and the Cameron Crazies were putting on their Black Falcon t-shirts, I'd be as embarrassed as I was the day I found out about the "Cheer Sheets"

[BlueThru&Thru]

The Heels ability to come back has been amazing but it's a double edged sword. Sleep-walking through more than 1/2 of a game will eventually catch up to you particularly at tournament time as the competition gets better. Roy's got to figure out why Mr. Barnes is the only one showing up to play early.

Good luckagainst the Hokies. What a great game that shapes up to be tomorrow.

[kong123]

That doesn't begin to explain Carolina's annual advantage at the charity stripe. Plenty of ACC teams work the paint at least as much as Carolina, but Carolina still leads the league in ref differential. Your reply is a pithy one typical of Carolina fans. You're (usually) better than that.

Final tally tonight: 34 FTA for Carolina, 16 for Clemson. A 2:1 advantage for Carolina. 36% of Clemson's FG attempts were 3s. 26% of Carolina's were 3s. Does that disparity account for a 2:1 FTA advantage for Carolina?

Clemson had 8 more fouls called against them than UNC had for the game. How many fouls were called in the final minute at the end of the game? 3 maybe 4? So, if that is the case, that means that UNC had 4 more fouls called for them than called against them, fair? That is 8 free throws if you account that every foul was either a shooting foul or a foul in the double bonus. UNC shot 18 more free throws than Clemson. There are fouls and then there are shooting fouls.

You can draw your own conclusions, which you have, but saying that UNC gets all the calls in about as valid as saying Duke gets all the calls. You can call me out and say I am a typical UNC fan, but you are being typical Duke fans when you try and claim UNC benefits from referees that cheat.

[AZLA]

HB would have been amazing at Duke and well received, especially considering he's a good kid and close friends with Kyrie. HB on the team would have made Duke nearly unstoppable. He realized he'd have to compete against some good great for PT his freshman year and Kyrie for freshman NPOY attention so he jumped to UNC, IMO. Clemson simply choked on trying to manage the game the last 3 minutes. Personally, I was hoping Duke got a rematch against Carolina, since they lost the regular season championship, so now let's just hope Duke can win and setup the battle royal for Sunday.

[killerleft]

Coach K. was not. He wanted Barnes badly and thought he would fit in just fine.



I watched it several times, it was the correct call. There was no possession before the shot clock ran out.



No, I don't think it is scripted. Some immature UNC fans said the same thing last year.

I watched the shot clock violation play several times, too. Henson had control. The clock you want to watch (on one of the replays) is not the red-numeraled one. The white numeraled one is a camera shot of the actual shot clock above the glass.

Don't bend over too far backwards, you body will spell out a big "C", troll-man.

[davekay1971]

but you are being typical Duke fans when you try and claim UNC benefits from referees that cheat.

There's a subtle (but important) difference in saying refs cheat (which I never have) and noting an inexplicable and annual FTA advantage for one particular pastel-blue wearing team. It's my belief that Carolina benefits from an advantage in the perceptions of the refs, particularly in their "lean" on close calls. I may be wrong in my belief, but the facts are what they are: year after year, regardless of Carolina's style of play and record, they are at, or near, the top of the ACC in FTA differential. Today's game was a great example of the advantage they get from that differential. If Carolina doesn't outshoot Clemson, a team which was aggressively attacking the rim all game, by 16 FTA, they're not playing for the ACC Championship tomorrow.

[#1Duke]

I watched the shot clock violation play several times, too. Henson had control. The clock you want to watch (on one of the replays) is not the red-numeraled one. The white numeraled one is a camera shot of the actual shot clock above the glass.

Don't bend over too far backwards, you body will spell out a big "C", troll-man.

LOL!! No troll here!! Just being objective. I don't let my love for Duke blind me.
The announcers also thought it was the correct call too.

By the way, did you catch the Duke game were the Refs couldn't count to 10?
Did you complain about that one?? The NON back court violation??

Being objective and honest does not make one a troll??

[kong123]

you are being a troll if you differ from the masses. whether you are right or not isn't important.

[davekay1971]

LOL!! No troll here!! Just being objective. I don't let my love for Duke blind me.
The announcers also thought it was the correct call too.

By the way, did you catch the Duke game were the Refs couldn't count to 10?
Did you complain about that one?? The NON back court violation??

Being objective and honest does not make one a troll??

I just took a moment and reviewed your posts on DBR. You're actually one of the most obvious trolls that's come around here in awhile. From my point of view, that's fine. I've always thought it was kind of a wierd way to get your jollies, but different strokes for different folks, I guess. Change the handle to #1ICFan and come out of the closet like Kong who (despite my cranky posts toward him today) is a welcome addition to the boards.

[Newton_14]

LOL!! No troll here!! Just being objective. I don't let my love for Duke blind me.
The announcers also thought it was the correct call too.

By the way, did you catch the Duke game were the Refs couldn't count to 10?
Did you complain about that one?? The NON back court violation??
Being objective and honest does not make one a troll??

You mean the game where the ref got to 9 on his hand count before Duke got it across? You do know the ref uses a hand count for backcourt timing, and the shot clock is not used and therefore is irrelevant, right?

The announcers were looking at the shot clock, so they were wrong too. And no being objective does not by itself make one a troll. You do know which "Duke Game" that play happened in, right?

[_Gary]

HB would have been amazing at Duke and well received, especially considering he's a good kid and close friends with Kyrie. HB on the team would have made Duke nearly unstoppable.

Heck, Duke didn't need Barnes in order to be nearly unstoppable. All we needed was for Kyrie to stay healthy and the Blue Devils would have been nearly unstoppable! I'm still of the opinion, especially after seeing how poor the ACC has been this year, that we'd have gone undefeated in both the regular season and the ACC Tourney had Kyrie (the best freshman in the nation) not gotten hurt. And we'd have certainly been the odds on favorite, by a decent margin, to win the NCAA title this year as well.

UNC is unquestionably very good at this point. There's no sense in denying that. And unfortunately they've been winning close games a lot this year and confidence breeds more confidence so they'll enter the NCAA tourney with plenty of moxy. But confidence can also breed overconfidence, and if they get overconfident in their ability to make miracle comebacks game in and game out it will probably bite them in the butt.

[Newton_14]

you are being a troll if you differ from the masses. whether you are right or not isn't important.

Now Kong, don't fall off the wagon and not follow your 12 Step plan as a recovering troll. :)Stay on the straight and narrow. Differing does not make one a troll.

[oldnavy]

Heck, Duke didn't need Barnes in order to be nearly unstoppable. All we needed was for Kyrie to stay healthy and the Blue Devils would have been nearly unstoppable! I'm still of the opinion, especially after seeing how poor the ACC has been this year, that we'd have gone undefeated in both the regular season and the ACC Tourney had Kyrie (the best freshman in the nation) not gotten hurt. And we'd have certainly been the odds on favorite, by a decent margin, to win the NCAA title this year as well.

UNC is unquestionably very good at this point. There's no sense in denying that. And unfortunately they've been winning close games a lot this year and confidence breeds more confidence so they'll enter the NCAA tourney with plenty of moxy. But confidence can also breed overconfidence, and if they get overconfident in their ability to make miracle comebacks game in and game out it will probably bite them in the butt.

Kendal Marshall makes UNC a very good team. They are not dominate by any means and could very easily lose their first round game depending on match up or could go to the FF depending on match ups... This is not 2009 level UNC however...

[dukelilsis]

No, I don't think it is scripted. Some immature UNC fans said the same thing last year.

Incase you didn't pick up on it when I admited that I was being governed by my hate of the holes, I was joking about the scripting.
I do, however, think that the refs have been deplorable this year--not just in unc games. They have made so many mistakes that outcomes have had to have been affected. To name just a few there was a missed double dribble at the end of the Miami/unc game yesterday, the end of the St. John's/Rutgers game was beyond reason and calling a foul a shooting foul in a Kentucky game when the player was not even facing the basket and had barely crossed the half court line was ridiculous. And, yes, they missed the ten second call at Duke. I honestly don't think most refs can even count to 5 anymore since balls often do not get inbounded within 5 seconds. They really need to go back to the basics with the refs. "This is a walk. This is how you count. This is a double dribble." As my husband says, if the refs were any good they would not need to have so many reviews before making a call.

[#1Duke]

Incase you didn't pick up on it when I admited that I was being governed by my hate of the holes, I was joking about the scripting.
I do, however, think that the refs have been deplorable this year--not just in unc games. They have made so many mistakes that outcomes have had to have been affected. To name just a few there was a missed double dribble at the end of the Miami/unc game yesterday, the end of the St. John's/Rutgers game was beyond reason and calling a foul a shooting foul in a Kentucky game when the player was not even facing the basket and had barely crossed the half court line was ridiculous. And, yes, they missed the ten second call at Duke. I honestly don't think most refs can even count to 5 anymore since balls often do not get inbounded within 5 seconds. They really need to go back to the basics with the refs. "This is a walk. This is how you count. This is a double dribble." As my husband says, if the refs were any good they would not need to have so many reviews before making a call.

100% totally agree.

[#1Duke]

You mean the game where the ref got to 9 on his hand count before Duke got it across? You do know the ref uses a hand count for backcourt timing, and the shot clock is not used and therefore is irrelevant, right?

The announcers were looking at the shot clock, so they were wrong too. And no being objective does not by itself make one a troll. You do know which "Duke Game" that play happened in, right?


Yeah, that one. The one where the ref couldn't count to ten and that fact was made apparent by a time clock USED in the game. Since the time clock IS used in the game, it should be accurate. The shot clock is irrelevant only to those that blindly refuse to acknowledge that TWELVE (12) seconds went by.... what does it matter if the ref was wrong as long as it favors your team THIS time..... right??
Next time, it may go against your team and then someone else will "justify" the mistake.
As they say, " it depends on whose ox is being gourd."

That's why I said the refs could not count to ten..... and now I'll add accurately... because, 12 seconds actually passed.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

UNC typically gets fouled more...which is why they often shoot more FT's than the opposition.
I thought you Duke scholars were sharp?:p

There are two reasons for this:
1) UNC feeds the post a majority of their possessions where fouls are more likely from the defense.
2) UNC continually pushes transition, straight to the rim, and defenses are not set. This offensive attack also generates fouls at a high rate from players trying to recover.

Ref bias is not present..they are equally bad for all... so unless you want to start counting their failure to call the moving picks, along with the push offs, grabbing, tripping and other assorted "Tough D" Duke plays....I don't want to hear the whining:)

[blueduke59]

There's a subtle (but important) difference in saying refs cheat (which I never have) and noting an inexplicable and annual FTA advantage for one particular pastel-blue wearing team. It's my belief that Carolina benefits from an advantage in the perceptions of the refs, particularly in their "lean" on close calls. I may be wrong in my belief, but the facts are what they are: year after year, regardless of Carolina's style of play and record, they are at, or near, the top of the ACC in FTA differential. Today's game was a great example of the advantage they get from that differential. If Carolina doesn't outshoot Clemson, a team which was aggressively attacking the rim all game, by 16 FTA, they're not playing for the ACC Championship tomorrow.

Bolded statement is indeed correct: http://packsmack.com/InfamousACCIndexCard/

[devildeac]

Yeah, that one. The one where the ref couldn't count to ten and that fact was made apparent by a time clock USED in the game. Since the time clock IS used in the game, it should be accurate. The shot clock is irrelevant only to those that blindly refuse to acknowledge that TWELVE (12) seconds went by.... what does it matter if the ref was wrong as long as it favors your team THIS time..... right??
Next time, it may go against your team and then someone else will "justify" the mistake.
As they say, " it depends on whose ox is being gourd."

That's why I said the refs could not count to ten..... and now I'll add accurately... because, 12 seconds actually passed.

Someone posted a still frame of Kyle receiving the ball with 25 seconds showing on the shot clock. Repeat, the ball was in his hand/s in our offensive end of the court as 10 second expired off the shot clock. It may have been 10.1 or 10.2 but the ref counts this, he does not watch/use the shot clock.

[AZLA]

Heck, Duke didn't need Barnes in order to be nearly unstoppable. All we needed was for Kyrie to stay healthy and the Blue Devils would have been nearly unstoppable! I'm still of the opinion, especially after seeing how poor the ACC has been this year, that we'd have gone undefeated in both the regular season and the ACC Tourney had Kyrie (the best freshman in the nation) not gotten hurt. And we'd have certainly been the odds on favorite, by a decent margin, to win the NCAA title this year as well.

UNC is unquestionably very good at this point. There's no sense in denying that. And unfortunately they've been winning close games a lot this year and confidence breeds more confidence so they'll enter the NCAA tourney with plenty of moxy. But confidence can also breed overconfidence, and if they get overconfident in their ability to make miracle comebacks game in and game out it will probably bite them in the butt.

I'd agree with that. Let's go Duke, light it up tomorrow!

HB is going to come out extra aggressive at Kyle tomorrow. Like he did at CH. He's got a little chip on his shoulder, or at least a little more demonstrative against him.

I hope Kyle puts him in jail.

Can't wait for the game.

[#1Duke]

I'd agree with that. Let's go Duke, light it up tomorrow!

HB is going to come out extra aggressive at Kyle tomorrow. Like he did at CH. He's got a little chip on his shoulder, or at least a little more demonstrative against him.

I hope Kyle puts him in jail.

Can't wait for the game.

Yes, and we had better knock it off of him. He went for 40 points today, the highest by a freshman ever in the ACC tourney.
We don't need that stuff from him tomorrow...

[dukee94]

Someone posted a still frame of Kyle receiving the ball with 25 seconds showing on the shot clock. Repeat, the ball was in his hand/s in our offensive end of the court as 10 second expired off the shot clock. It may have been 10.1 or 10.2 but the ref counts this, he does not watch/use the shot clock.

Not much to do with Clemson/UNC, but since you mentioned it: 1893

We all know it's the count of the official that matters, not the clock. This just shows that it wasn't quite as slow of a count from the official as everyone said it was.

[devildeac]

Not much to do with Clemson/UNC, but since you mentioned it: 1893

We all know it's the count of the official that matters, not the clock. This just shows that it wasn't quite as slow of a count from the official as everyone said it was.

That's the still to which I was referring. Thank you for taking the time to find it and helping prove my point. No way it was 12 seconds as another poster tried to claim.

http://crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/41.gif

[ns7]

UNC typically gets fouled more...which is why they often shoot more FT's than the opposition.
I thought you Duke scholars were sharp?:p

There are two reasons for this:
1) UNC feeds the post a majority of their possessions where fouls are more likely from the defense.
2) UNC continually pushes transition, straight to the rim, and defenses are not set. This offensive attack also generates fouls at a high rate from players trying to recover.

Ref bias is not present..they are equally bad for all... so unless you want to start counting their failure to call the moving picks, along with the push offs, grabbing, tripping and other assorted "Tough D" Duke plays....I don't want to hear the whining:)

While you are right that UNC draws a lot of fouls, UNC's historic advantage comes from their amazing ability not to commit fouls. Part of this might be from UNC's style of defense (don't go for steals), the other part is unexplained.

[Gthoma2a]

Wait, did Hogwood just try to say that "6 national titles for North Carolina" nonsense?

[devildeac]

Wait, did Hogwood just try to say that "6 national titles for North Carolina" nonsense?

Reading from mike patrick or digger cue cards?