Rutgers-St. John's officials' screwup

[rasputin]

The officials screwed up the end of this game royally.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlOWkNBxlTo

[MCFinARL]

The officials screwed up the end of this game royally.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlOWkNBxlTo

Yikes! That's outrageous. Rutgers should have had an inbounds pass at midcourt with almost 2 seconds left.

[gam7]

The officials screwed up the end of this game royally.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlOWkNBxlTo

It wasn't just this end of game screw-up. The officials also swallowed their whistles in a pretty egregious way (1) on a potential game-winning shot about 20 seconds earlier, (2)on a pretty clear over-the-back, and (3) arguably, on the inbounds pass of the play in the video you posted. This video just topped it off in a truly unbelievable way.

[Blue in the Face]

I was watching that game live, and really couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe what an idiot the johnnies player was for running like that (I mean, it was just so obvious, how could he not realize there was still time), and then really truly utterly couldn't believe the refs just walked off the court and into the tunnel. As gam points out, the refs were of questionable caliber in the waning moments, but that's always part of the game. But ignoring that was beyond the pale.

[g-money]

IMO the title of this thread should be changed to read screwupS. Those last three missed calls were atrocious. Reminds me of the call the refs missed in the St. Johns-Pitt game a few weeks ago, except that today's gaffes were 1000x more blatantly obvious.

Now I wish I could also say that Duke got robbed against St. Johns this season, but that would be stretching things a bit...

[Olympic Fan]

It wasn't just this end of game screw-up. The officials also swallowed their whistles in a pretty egregious way (1) on a potential game-winning shot about 20 seconds earlier, (2)on a pretty clear over-the-back, and (3) arguably, on the inbounds pass of the play in the video you posted. This video just topped it off in a truly unbelievable way.

My opinion --
(1) Absolutely horrible call .. especially considering what preceded it. Rutgers was up one and St. John's was put on the line when a Rutgers defender stepped out to hedge 30-feet from the basket and body-bumped the St. John's dribbler (absolutely no hands). Should have been a no-call -- no harm on the play, Then the Rutgers guy drives the lane and is hammered -- replay shows the defender bring both hands down over the shooter's head, raking his arms and hitting his head.

(2) Absolutely horrible call ... the Rutgers rebounder was knocked off-balance by the falling St. John's player who hits him on the back of his legs, causing him to loose the ball out of bounds. The contact clearly gave St. John's an advantage.

(3) Probably right to be a no call ... there was contact on the play, but no holding or grabbing. Contact when two players are going for a loose ball is permissable. The St. John's players had as much right to the ball as the Rutgers player.

The fact that Higgins, Burr and company stopped officiating before the final buzzer is absolutely unforgiveable. The St. John's defender just grabbed the ball and started running with it, even though there was still some 2-3 seconds left. He clearly stepped out of bounds with 1.7 seconds left, then threw the ball into the stands with more than a second left.

John Adams, the NCAA director of officials, admitted that they blew the endgame, but said the ending was not reviewable (you can't review to see a violation that should have been called, such as the walk or the out of bounds; if they had called a violation, they could have checked the replay to see how much time should have been put back on the clock). Adams also said that the player should not have received a technical foul for throwing the ball in the stands -- he thought the game was over (hmm, didn't the Louisville cheerleader who got the T last week "think" the game was over?).

It's what we've come to expect from Higgins and Burr -- two over-the-hill refs who have been screwing up games for years. Pray we don't get them in the NCAA Tournament.

[LSanders]

It wasn't just this end of game screw-up. The officials also swallowed their whistles in a pretty egregious way (1) on a potential game-winning shot about 20 seconds earlier, (2)on a pretty clear over-the-back, and (3) arguably, on the inbounds pass of the play in the video you posted. This video just topped it off in a truly unbelievable way.

Points 2 & 3 were astonishing, but #1's the true disgrace. We all know that most calls fall into a gray or judgement area. Not this one. Coburn was flat-out mugged. The TV replay confirmed and incredibly obvious foul. The criminal no-call on that was the most important screw-up of the game. A tie game with roughly 17 seconds changes everything about the end-game strategy.

Off the top of my head, I can't think of an ACC game called this poorly. Rutgers was truly hosed.
--------------------------
Per Bilas:

Really poor job by the officials in the Rutgers-St. John's game. No excuse for a performance like that. That crew should not advance.

Of the calls missed, the no-call on Coburn's shot attempt was the worst. He was fouled. No reasonable argument otherwise.

No call made at the end, therefore not reviewable on replay. Rules don't allow it. Foul in the shot a bigger deal.

[NashvilleDevil]

If it was Duke that these terrible calls had benefited. How quickly would a Senate Committe on Officiating Ethics be called to order? "Mr. Elmore please state your name and occupation for the record."

[A-Tex Devil]

It's what we've come to expect from Higgins and Burr -- two over-the-hill refs who have been screwing up games for years. Pray we don't get them in the NCAA Tournament.

I wouldn't count on this crew being invited to officiate the tourney. The end game wasn't just a mistake, it was negligent by a crew that knew it had made some questionable calls/non-calls and wanted to get out of the building.

If there is any kind of system of reprimand, they have to be suspended for season for something this bad.

[moonpie23]

actually, throwing the ball into the stands with time on the clock should be a technical foul sending rutgers to the line with 2 secs on the clock..

[gam7]

Here's one thing I don't understand: the refs must have seen Brownlee do what he did. Even if they didn't see his foot out-of-bounds, they must have seen him walk with the ball and then throw it into the stands. Even after all of that there was about another second before the buzzer went off. The officials must have heard that. I don't understand why they didn't convene and then just make a delayed traveling call.

There was a buzzer mess-up earlier in the second half when D.J. Kennedy was shooting a free throw (although he hit the free throw anyway), so perhaps the officials thought it was just another buzzer mishap. But still.

[WakeDevil]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there was 0.3 of a second left in the other game. The cheerleader grabbed the ball, preventing the other team from having access to it.

In this game, the player, as the NCAA person said, tossed the ball into the stands because he thought the game was over. The officials never stopped play.

People sometimes say that officials should "let the players decide the game." Well, when you decide not to call a foul, you are letting the wrong players determine the outcome.

[dyedwab]

As egregiously bad as the officiating screwup was, Mike Rice's reaction in the post-game presses was unbelievably awesome. He didn't sugarcoat his feelings, but didn't go off half-cocked crazy either.

If you are someone (like me) who has been hoping since Eddie Jordan-Phil Sellers-James Bailey days that Rutgers' program would someday be relevant again, you have to like what you saw from the coach today. That's a guy who can lead a program.

[jipops]

How ironic that this miscue is to the benefit of a Steve Lavin coached team. This is the guy who repeatedly suggested on the air last season that Duke was receiving preferential treatment and even threw out the word 'conspiracy'.

So I guess we should start the hand-wringing 'The Johnnies get all the calls'?

[SCMatt33]

People sometimes say that officials should "let the players decide the game." Well, when you decide not to call a foul, you are letting the wrong players determine the outcome.

This is exactly why I hate that argument, because refs are afraid to make a call at the end of a game like this with so much backlash if it was wrong. When you slow it down, it was an obvious foul, but at full speed, I can see why the refs let it go. There was no big hack and the shot was only mildly affected. If they truly are "trying to let the players decide it," you let that go unless the guy is grabbed or hacked in an undeniable manner. Any other time of the game, that will be a foul. I think people have to accept borderline fouls at the end of games or we risk seeing this a lot more.

Now, even if there is an excuse for the no foul in terms of public and possibly internal pressure leading refs to swallow the whistle at the end of games, there is NO excuse for the out of bounds play. Even if they didn't blow the whistle in time to stop the clock before the buzzer went off, if they saw that he went out of bounds at all, they could have gone to the monitor to see how much time was left. There is no "judgment" call there. That is just plain wrong.

[diveonthefloor]

I had to watch the replay three times to convince myself that the home team wasn't wearing powder blue. :)

[wilson]

This is exactly why I hate that argument, because refs are afraid to make a call at the end of a game like this with so much backlash if it was wrong.Matt Christensen hates this argument too.:rolleyes:

[Orange&BlackSheep]

As egregiously bad as the officiating screwup was, Mike Rice's reaction in the post-game presses was unbelievably awesome. He didn't sugarcoat his feelings, but didn't go off half-cocked crazy either.

If you are someone (like me) who has been hoping since Eddie Jordan-Phil Sellers-James Bailey days that Rutgers' program would someday be relevant again, you have to like what you saw from the coach today. That's a guy who can lead a program.

All I can say is that I watched him live as Princeton squeaked out a W against Rutgers this year, and I would die if he were my coach. His antics on the sideline were just ... insane. And this comes from someone who watched everyone's favorite gnome Pete Carrill's facial expressions from 1987 until retirement. Seems like a nice guy though.

[HK Dukie]

This just proves again that Duke gets all the calls. This has got to stop!!!

[calltheobvious]

actually, throwing the ball into the stands with time on the clock should be a technical foul sending rutgers to the line with 2 secs on the clock..

Why?

If it's ruled celebratory, there's no technical foul. And if it's not ruled celebratory, then it's ruled "smart clock management."

Either way, the kid throwing the ball was not to be penalized in any way, unless the ball had landed out of bounds before time expired.

The crew made some mistakes on the final play. But not calling a technical foul for the thrown ball wasn't one of 'em.

[mkline09]

actually, throwing the ball into the stands with time on the clock should be a technical foul sending rutgers to the line with 2 secs on the clock..

I thought about that too but kind of agreed with an explanation I heard later. The St. John's kid thought the game was over when he tossed the ball. I don't think it was with any malintent that he chucked the ball up in the seats (ie. run clock which should have been stopped anyway.) So I think that was a good no call but Rutgers should have gotten the ball with something like 1.6 left at half court with a chance for the tie or win.

[Indoor66]

I thought about that too but kind of agreed with an explanation I heard later. The St. John's kid thought the game was over when he tossed the ball. I don't think it was with any malintent that he chucked the ball up in the seats (ie. run clock which should have been stopped anyway.) So I think that was a good no call but Rutgers should have gotten the ball with something like 1.6 left at half court with a chance for the tie or win.

Would that not have been the backup ball?

[mkline09]

Would that not have been the backup ball?

Probably if the fan who caught the game ball didn't give it back. At least that is how it works in baseball.

[Blue in the Face]

I just realized this morning that Mike Rice Jr., the Rutgers coach, was the Robert Morris coach last year, when they lost a close game to Villanova in the tournament, and had a number of very controversial calls go against them. A couple more losses like that, and he's going to develop a Gary Williams sized persecution complex.

[cruxer]

I understand that, by rule, the endgame situation was not reviewable because the officials didn't blow the whistle initially. While it's in dicey ground to reverse a non-travel call on replay, there's no reason that an out of bounds in an end-half/game couldn't be reviewed and reversed if missed. I'm willing to bet that even live, the officials realized something was amiss with that end of game and would have loved an opportunity to "go to the tape". There's no reason that a whistle should be required to review timing/possession questions.

The NCAA should consider that rule change next year.

-c

[Blue in the Face]

I'm willing to bet that even live, the officials realized something was amiss with that end of game and would have loved an opportunity to "go to the tape".
There was certainly no indication from their behavior after the game "ended" that they wanted to do anything but leave the court. There was no acknowledgment that something might be amiss, no conferring about what had just happened, no interest paid in the protests from the Rutgers side. I don't know if they simply missed it completely, or just didn't care, but live on the court they sure didn't seem to have the slightest interest in changing anything about those last 2 seconds.

[cruxer]

There was certainly no indication from their behavior after the game "ended" that they wanted to do anything but leave the court.

Given that there was no recourse once they'd screwed up, the smartest thing they did all game was get the heck out of the building ASAP! But they had to know something about that ending wasn't right, even if none of them saw exactly what the problem was.

-c

[sagegrouse]

There will be a "point of emphasis" by the gendarmerie that "the game isn't over until it's over." No more toleration of the winning team's walking around with the ball as the clock winds down. Or, needless to say, throwing the ball in the stands. The latter BTW is bush league -- you throw the ball straight at the ceiling and allow Newton's Law to take effect (if it goes up 48 feet, the arc takes up four seconds).

sagegrouse
'Will some good physicker straighten out my science?'

[jacone21]

I don't watch SportsCenter, but I have to ask. Has Duke somehow been brought into this controversy yet? There has to be some way it can be spun to make Duke look bad!

[rsvman]

I just watched the video on YouTube. To be honest, I'm not sure the guy walked. On the last replay from a different angle you can see that he bounces the ball once. He then appears to take two steps, the second of which lands his foot out of bounds.

There's no question, however, that he is out of bounds while there is still time remaining on the clock. Should've been Rutgers ball at half-court with 1.7 seconds remaining. They probably still would've lost the game.

Finally, I think it was a poor coaching decision to attempt to throw the ball past mid-court on the inbounds play when there was enough time to make a safer pass.

[Billy Dat]

My favorite part is, as you see the St Johns player stepping out of bounds while flinging the ball, Lavin is already passing him on his way to shake Rice's hand. Gee, Steve, way to be on top of the action.

[fisheyes]

Just announced on ESPN that the 3 officials have withdrawn from the Big East Tourney so as "not to be a distraction".

[devilsadvocate85]

Just announced on ESPN that the 3 officials have withdrawn from the Big East Tourney so as "not to be a distraction".

Just so we can enjoy the benefit of their stellar work!

[DevilWearsPrada]

Just so we can enjoy the benefit of their stellar work!

I hope we dont get any of them in our games! Since Duke gets all the calls.

I am sure ACC official boss, John Cloughtery, will see those 3 are NOT in the ACC crew. I think the ACC officials are set for this tournament. They generally meet on Wednesday for meetings before the games begin on Thursday!

[weezie]

Just announced on ESPN that the 3 officials have withdrawn from the Big East Tourney so as "not to be a distraction".

Ah but, we'll always have Brian and Karl............:p

[Duvall]

I hope we dont get any of them in our games! Since Duke gets all the calls.

I am sure ACC official boss, John Cloughtery, will see those 3 are NOT in the ACC crew. I think the ACC officials are set for this tournament. They generally meet on Wednesday for meetings before the games begin on Thursday!

And yet, I would still rather have Jim Burr for one of Duke's games than Jamie Luckie.

[WiJoe]

Here's what every single one of you have missed:

One of the three officials was a fellow named walton. If it was Carl, as the box states, it was his first game of the SEASON. If it was Earl, as I believe I heard the espn announcers report, it was his 72nd game of the season.

Check it out:

http://www.bigeast.org/fls/19400/stats/mbasketball/2010-2011/BEC06.HTM

http://statsheet.com/mcb/referees/search?s=Walton

http://www.bbstate.com/officials.php?a=directory

the last link is a pay site, but you get three or four free views.

[Tom B.]

I don't watch SportsCenter, but I have to ask. Has Duke somehow been brought into this controversy yet? There has to be some way it can be spun to make Duke look bad!




Yes. ESPN is now reporting that as a result of the St. John's player throwing the ball into the crowd, a retroactive technical foul will be assessed against Daniel Ewing.

[Rogue]

I understand that, by rule, the endgame situation was not reviewable because the officials didn't blow the whistle initially. While it's in dicey ground to reverse a non-travel call on replay, there's no reason that an out of bounds in an end-half/game couldn't be reviewed and reversed if missed. I'm willing to bet that even live, the officials realized something was amiss with that end of game and would have loved an opportunity to "go to the tape". There's no reason that a whistle should be required to review timing/possession questions.

The NCAA should consider that rule change next year.

-c

I agree. I think they can stop a game to review a 3 point shot, to make sure they get it right. It's silly for them not to be able to see if there should be time on the clock because the refs swallowed their whistles.
Tech on Lavin for being out of the box as he was going to shake hands before the game was over:cool: