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View Full Version : All-ACC teams - Nolan POY; Kyle 1st Team



devildeac
03-07-2011, 05:11 PM
This just in:

http://www.wralsportsfan.com/college_basketball/story/9230394/

hurleyfor3
03-07-2011, 05:19 PM
The vote totals themselves are public domain.

Nolan was the only unanimous choice.

All-ACC First Team
Nolan Smith, Duke (225)+
Jordan Williams, Maryland (210)
Malcolm Delaney, Virginia Tech (202)
Kyle Singler, Duke (199)
Reggie Jackson, Boston College (190)

All-ACC Second Team
Tyler Zeller, North Carolina (161)
John Henson, North Carolina (148)
Harrison Barnes, North Carolina (145)
Iman Shumpert, Georgia Tech (132)
Jeff Allen, Virginia Tech (131)

All-ACC Third Team
Chris Singleton, Florida State (126)
Demontez Stitt, Clemson (81)
Joe Trapani, Boston College (63)
Malcolm Grant, Miami (62)
Kendall Marshall, North Carolina (45)

ACC All-Freshman Team
Harrison Barnes, North Carolina (75)+
Travis McKie, Wake Forest (74)
Kendall Marshall, North Carolina (71)
Terrell Stoglin, Maryland (62)
C.J. Leslie, NC State (46)

ACC All-Defensive Team
John Henson, North Carolina (75)+
Chris Singleton, Florida State (64)
Iman Shumpert, Georgia Tech (60)
Nolan Smith, Duke (26)
Jerai Grant, Clemson (20)

cspan37421
03-07-2011, 05:22 PM
Cool - thanks. Kudos to Nolan for unanimous 1st team selection! And a hearty congrats to Kyle for first team selection as well. No Tar Heels first team, but a 3 of them on the second team.

Interesting that a guy from 1-15 (ACC record) Wake was 1 shy of unanimous for all-freshman team.

Would anyone else have expected Kyle to be as likely to be represented on the all-defensive team than Nolan? As of before the Carolina game (stats available from goduke.com), they were very nearly even in (steals + blocks) and although kyle was ahead in defensive rebounds, it amounted to only 0.5 more per game. But the kicker for me is that I thought kyle tended to draw the toughest defensive assignments. I don't have stats on the guys he guarded though. I know he did a fine job on HB in the first meeting with UNC.

-jk
03-07-2011, 05:27 PM
I always like to see Barry Jacobs' All Defensive team, as he polls the coaches, not the media.

-jk

burns15
03-07-2011, 05:31 PM
Cool - thanks. Kudos to Nolan for unanimous 1st team selection! And a hearty congrats to Kyle for first team selection as well. No Tar Heels first team, but a 3 of them on the second team.

Interesting that a guy from 1-15 (ACC record) Wake was 1 shy of unanimous for all-freshman team.

Would anyone else have expected Kyle to be as likely to be represented on the all-defensive team than Nolan? As of before the Carolina game (stats available from goduke.com), they were very nearly even in (steals + blocks) and although kyle was ahead in defensive rebounds, it amounted to only 0.5 more per game. But the kicker for me is that I thought kyle tended to draw the toughest defensive assignments. I don't have stats on the guys he guarded though. I know he did a fine job on HB in the first meeting with UNC.

Being a Wake student and watching their games this year, I can tell you that Travis McKie is a phenomenal player and was playing out of position most of the year, as he is a natural 3 but played the 4 because of Wake's lack of depth this year

-jk
03-07-2011, 05:38 PM
I guess unc having no 1st team selections and winning the regular season means they'll either be hyper-motivated this weekend or Roy really mismanaged his talent. Perhaps both. Good thing Roy disdains the ACC tourney. ;)

-jk

cspan37421
03-07-2011, 05:49 PM
I always like to see Barry Jacobs' All Defensive team, as he polls the coaches, not the media.

-jk

I'll take Barry Jacobs' analysis over the field any day of the week.

Atlanta Duke
03-07-2011, 05:54 PM
I guess unc having no 1st team selections and winning the regular season means they'll either be hyper-motivated this weekend or Roy really mismanaged his talent. Perhaps both. Good thing Roy disdains the ACC tourney. ;)

-jk

Caulton Tudor opts for hyper-motivated :)

Tar Heels robbed in All-ACC voting

http://blogs.newsobserver.com/accnow/tudors-take-tar-heels-robbed-in-all-acc-voting

roywhite
03-07-2011, 06:20 PM
Caulton Tudor opts for hyper-motivated :)

Tar Heels robbed in All-ACC voting

http://blogs.newsobserver.com/accnow/tudors-take-tar-heels-robbed-in-all-acc-voting

I've always considered Caulton Tudor the Digger Phelps of local sportswriters....not terribly sharp or original, and strongly oriented to his favorite team(s).

That said, I'm not sure there's any real reason for Carolina fans to be upset about these selections. They got 3 of the top 8 vote getters, and their overall balance was recognized. Which of the members of the 1st team didn't belong there?

Could be wrong, but I doubt Ole Roy makes a big deal about this (unless perhaps Caulton is his proxy here). Roy will be too busy downplaying the importance of the ACC Tournament.

hurleyfor3
03-07-2011, 06:30 PM
Imagine that, Caulton Tarheel thinks unc was robbed.

superdave
03-07-2011, 06:40 PM
I've always considered Caulton Tudor the Digger Phelps of local sportswriters....not terribly sharp or original, and strongly oriented to his favorite team(s).

That said, I'm not sure there's any real reason for Carolina fans to be upset about these selections. They got 3 of the top 8 vote getters, and their overall balance was recognized. Which of the members of the 1st team didn't belong there?

Could be wrong, but I doubt Ole Roy makes a big deal about this (unless perhaps Caulton is his proxy here). Roy will be too busy downplaying the importance of the ACC Tournament.

None of the Carolina guys had a 1st team season. I think the top 3 vote-getters were the only obvious ones and the 4th and 5th spots were up for grabs.

If Henson wanted to be more than 2nd team, he should have averaged more than 10 ppg and it would have been easy. If Barnes wanted to be 1st team, he should have started playing well in December not February.

sandinmyshoes
03-07-2011, 06:56 PM
None of the Carolina guys had a 1st team season. I think the top 3 vote-getters were the only obvious ones and the 4th and 5th spots were up for grabs.

If Henson wanted to be more than 2nd team, he should have averaged more than 10 ppg and it would have been easy. If Barnes wanted to be 1st team, he should have started playing well in December not February.

I'm going to disagree. In my opinion, if Henson is DPOY as the Defensive All ACC would indicate, he should have been on the first team All ACC. In my book the defensive player of the year should always be a 1st teamer all ACC.

I'm also perplexed by Kyle being left of the defensive team. I thought it was his defense that put him onto the first team all ACC. Very strange.

I wonder if, in addition to the uneven schedule, this is just the result of the conference expansion and too many voters who just don't watch enough games to make qualified votes. Or, perhaps that should be enough games to make quality votes.

devildeac
03-07-2011, 08:30 PM
Caulton Tudor opts for hyper-motivated :)

Tar Heels robbed in All-ACC voting

http://blogs.newsobserver.com/accnow/tudors-take-tar-heels-robbed-in-all-acc-voting

Shocking, simply shocking that Tudor would take that stance.:eek:

rthomas
03-07-2011, 09:11 PM
I guess unc having no 1st team selections and winning the regular season means they'll either be hyper-motivated this weekend or Roy really mismanaged his talent. Perhaps both. Good thing Roy disdains the ACC tourney. ;)

-jk

Rather than dissing other teams, I very much appreciate our two 1st teamers.

Gminski, Redick, Dawkins and Singler. Only four Dukies on All-ACC all four years. according to Duke Blue Planet.

Awesome!

burns15
03-07-2011, 09:55 PM
Rather than dissing other teams, I very much appreciate our two 1st teamers.

Gminski, Redick, Dawkins and Singler. Only four Dukies on All-ACC all four years. according to Duke Blue Planet.

Awesome!

Gminksi was only three time I believe

DallasDevil
03-07-2011, 11:53 PM
Gminksi was only three time I believe

I believe Banks, not Gminski, was the other four-time all-acc player. In any event, congrats to Kyle and Nolan on an outstanding regular season. Here's to hoping that the rest of the year is even better.

mkirsh
03-08-2011, 09:11 AM
Caulton Tudor opts for hyper-motivated :)

Tar Heels robbed in All-ACC voting

http://blogs.newsobserver.com/accnow/tudors-take-tar-heels-robbed-in-all-acc-voting

I think the Tarheels' team MVP is LD2's mom - if anyone in baby blue should be first team all ACC, it is her.

gw67
03-08-2011, 10:18 AM
I believe Banks, not Gminski, was the other four-time all-acc player. In any event, congrats to Kyle and Nolan on an outstanding regular season. Here's to hoping that the rest of the year is even better.

According to Charlie Board (through 2002), Banks made 1st team once and 2nd team 3 times while Dawkins made 1st team twice and 2nd team twice. Gminski, Heyman, Langdon, Mullins, Verga and, I believe JWill and Redick, were 1st team 3 times.

http://www.sportsstats.com/bball/awards/All-ACC

gw67

VaDukie
03-08-2011, 10:43 AM
Although there are obviously other factors to consider, Singler also finished all four years as Duke's 2nd best player according to All-ACC voting. He has finished 2nd in total votes to Nelson, Henderson, Scheyer, and now Smith.

watzone
03-08-2011, 11:00 AM
Later today, Williams will be named COY, Barnes ROY and Henson DPOY. Does that sound like bias? The UNC guys were bunched closely together, so all three of the big names made it on some ballots. I voted one Tar Heel 1st team, two 2nd and one 3rd. I also voted for the trio above and NS for POY and that is a done deal as well. Sometimes, the intent is to rile a certain team by creating a chip on their shoulder;)

UrinalCake
03-08-2011, 11:08 AM
I agree that UNC is really well balanced, which made it harder for their big four to make it onto the first team. To some extent, they split the vote amongst each other. CJ Leslie on the all-freshman team is a joke - he put up decent numbers but didn't come anywhere close to maximizing his considerable talents on an underachieving team.

watzone
03-08-2011, 11:15 AM
I agree that UNC is really well balanced, which made it harder for their big four to make it onto the first team. To some extent, they split the vote amongst each other. CJ Leslie on the all-freshman team is a joke - he put up decent numbers but didn't come anywhere close to maximizing his considerable talents on an underachieving team.

I agree that Leslie wasn't all that, but who was a better choice? When I got to the all fresh team, there were three names which stood out and a fourth pretty decent one as well, but the fifth spot? It was brutal finding someone. In fact, I had KI on before making a last minute change in that he was more impressive in 8 games than others but as my friend Al F. pointed out, he didn't p;ay in a single ACC game.

I had trouble with the 3rd team as well where it came down to Kitchen and Trapani for the last spot. There was a drop off past 13 players IMO.

pfrduke
03-08-2011, 11:22 AM
Later today, Williams will be named COY, Barnes ROY and Henson DPOY. Does that sound like bias?

I don't know - it's hard to quibble with any of these. I think Singleton was a better defender than Henson, but he missed the last 3rd of the conference season. I think Marshall was probably more worthy than Barnes, but giving the award to Barnes is totally justified - either is a better choice than McKie, who was really the only competition.

As for COY, I may not think Williams deserves it, but it's hard from an objective standpoint to argue with taking a team unranked in January to 14-2 and 1st in the conference. I still would have voted for K, because I think he suffered the most significant in-season loss but still kept his team at an incredibly high level, but I'm also a biased Duke fan. ;)

sagegrouse
03-08-2011, 11:42 AM
According to Charlie Board (through 2002), Banks made 1st team once and 2nd team 3 times while Dawkins made 1st team twice and 2nd team twice. Gminski, Heyman, Langdon, Mullins, Verga and, I believe JWill and Redick, were 1st team 3 times.

http://www.sportsstats.com/bball/awards/All-ACC

gw67

Not the last two. JWill was 3rd team his freshman year and Redick was 3rd, 2nd, 1st, and 1st his four years.

sagegrouse

superdave
03-08-2011, 11:48 AM
Here's their awards. (http://www.accsports.com/blogs/david-glenn/201103089994/the-acc-sports-journals-hoops-awards.php)

Singler makes 2nd team and Henson makes 1st. Singler also makes All-D. I kinda think this makes more sense than the official awards wound up looking.

CDu
03-08-2011, 11:49 AM
I don't know - it's hard to quibble with any of these. I think Singleton was a better defender than Henson, but he missed the last 3rd of the conference season. I think Marshall was probably more worthy than Barnes, but giving the award to Barnes is totally justified - either is a better choice than McKie, who was really the only competition.

As for COY, I may not think Williams deserves it, but it's hard from an objective standpoint to argue with taking a team unranked in January to 14-2 and 1st in the conference. I still would have voted for K, because I think he suffered the most significant in-season loss but still kept his team at an incredibly high level, but I'm also a biased Duke fan. ;)

Marshall had a great last half of the ACC season, but he started too slow. If he'd gotten the gig in early January, he'd likely have won the honor. Barnes's numbers are inflated by a very high shot total, but since Irving got hurt Barnes has been at the head of the freshman pack. Marshall just didn't have enough time to overtake him.

I think you're dead-on on the Henson/Singleton thing. The two were the best defensive players in the league and it would have been a close race had Singleton not gotten hurt (with Singleton likely winning it). But with the injury and so many missed games, Henson was the logical choice.

And again, Williams took a team that was expected to finish 2nd or 3rd in the ACC and won the ACC. That may be largely due to good fortune in being relieved of a chemistry problem with Drew, but winning the ACC regular season title when you weren't supposed to do so is usually enough.

I don't really have any qualms with the votes.

Class of '94
03-08-2011, 11:51 AM
I agree that Leslie wasn't all that, but who was a better choice? When I got to the all fresh team, there were three names which stood out and a fourth pretty decent one as well, but the fifth spot? It was brutal finding someone. In fact, I had KI on before making a last minute change in that he was more impressive in 8 games than others but as my friend Al F. pointed out, he didn't p;ay in a single ACC game.

I had trouble with the 3rd team as well where it came down to Kitchen and Trapani for the last spot. There was a drop off past 13 players IMO.

I think Barnes needs to thank both LD II for leaving and Kyrie for getting hurt because without either of those two things happening, I don't HB would've been ROY. It should've been KI; but oh well....moving on.

CDu
03-08-2011, 11:57 AM
I think Barnes needs to thank both LD II for leaving and Kyrie for getting hurt because without either of those two things happening, I don't HB would've been ROY. It should've been KI; but oh well....moving on.

I think the Drew exit was irrelevant. It's all about the Irving injury. If Irving doesn't go down, he wins it. Once Irving got hurt, Barnes was the best of the remaining (very thin) class. That would have been the case even with Drew staying on the team.

In fact, Drew leaving could have hurt Barnes's chances. Had Drew left a month earlier, it might have been Marshall that won the honor.

Class of '94
03-08-2011, 12:06 PM
I think the Drew exit was irrelevant. It's all about the Irving injury. If Irving doesn't go down, he wins it. Once Irving got hurt, Barnes was the best of the remaining (very thin) class. That would have been the case even with Drew staying on the team.

In fact, Drew leaving could have hurt Barnes's chances. Had Drew left a month earlier, it might have been Marshall that won the honor.

Including Drew in the discussion was my very poor attempt at being facetious. I completely agree that KI getting hurt was the main reason for HB's ROY and I have to admit that it bothers me that Barnes got it knowing full well that a healthy KI is the best freshman in the ACC.

gwlaw99
03-08-2011, 12:19 PM
Marshall had a great last half of the ACC season, but he started too slow. If he'd gotten the gig in early January, he'd likely have won the honor. Barnes's numbers are inflated by a very high shot total, but since Irving got hurt Barnes has been at the head of the freshman pack. Marshall just didn't have enough time to overtake him.

I think you're dead-on on the Henson/Singleton thing. The two were the best defensive players in the league and it would have been a close race had Singleton not gotten hurt (with Singleton likely winning it). But with the injury and so many missed games, Henson was the logical choice.

And again, Williams took a team that was expected to finish 2nd or 3rd in the ACC and won the ACC. That may be largely due to good fortune in being relieved of a chemistry problem with Drew, but winning the ACC regular season title when you weren't supposed to do so is usually enough.

I don't really have any qualms with the votes.

I think Marshall should be freshman of the year. He has made the biggest impact of any freshman on his team. Like Marshall, Barnes also had a much better second half of the season.

The problem I have with Roy winning is that his team was ranked pre-season number 8 so they were expected to be this good. He just didn't prepare them for the season and the team had a terrible start.

jimsumner
03-08-2011, 12:22 PM
I agree that Leslie wasn't all that, but who was a better choice? When I got to the all fresh team, there were three names which stood out and a fourth pretty decent one as well, but the fifth spot? It was brutal finding someone. In fact, I had KI on before making a last minute change in that he was more impressive in 8 games than others but as my friend Al F. pointed out, he didn't p;ay in a single ACC game.

I had trouble with the 3rd team as well where it came down to Kitchen and Trapani for the last spot. There was a drop off past 13 players IMO.

I voted for Joe Harris over Leslie. Leslie had better stats. But I watched State a lot this season and Leslie did not make a good impression on me. On talent alone, he should have been in the All-ACC mix. But sometimes you need more than talent.

Vincetaylor
03-08-2011, 12:37 PM
Here's their awards. (http://www.accsports.com/blogs/david-glenn/201103089994/the-acc-sports-journals-hoops-awards.php)

Singler makes 2nd team and Henson makes 1st. Singler also makes All-D. I kinda think this makes more sense than the official awards wound up looking.

I totally agree.

kong123
03-08-2011, 01:11 PM
This just in...wasn't even close.


COACH OF THE YEAR
Roy Williams 52
Brad Brownell 8
Steve Donahue 6
Leonard Hamilton 4
Mike Krzyzewski 3

94duke
03-08-2011, 01:26 PM
Nolan was not unanimous:
ACC Player of the Year
Nolan Smith, Duke (73)
Kyle Singler, Duke (1)
Jordan Williams, Maryland (1)

http://www.theacc.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/030811aab.html

How was Nolan NOT unanimous?

-jk
03-08-2011, 01:43 PM
Nolan was not unanimous:
ACC Player of the Year
Nolan Smith, Duke (73)
Kyle Singler, Duke (1)
Jordan Williams, Maryland (1)

http://www.theacc.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/030811aab.html

How was Nolan NOT unanimous?

Damn! He missed "unanimous" by one vote!

-jk

pfrduke
03-08-2011, 01:43 PM
Nolan was not unanimous:
ACC Player of the Year
Nolan Smith, Duke (73)
Kyle Singler, Duke (1)
Jordan Williams, Maryland (1)

http://www.theacc.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/030811aab.html

How was Nolan NOT unanimous?

And I mean this with all the respect in the world for Kyle, but how exactly did someone vote for him over Nolan? I would be very curious to hear that voter explain that vote.

kong123
03-08-2011, 01:45 PM
Did Kyle get a vote? :rolleyes:

superdave
03-08-2011, 02:28 PM
Did Kyle get a vote? :rolleyes:

Because there's two ends of the floor you have to play on. And he had the 5th best scoring average in the league to boot. Stay tuned for who the coaches thought should have been all-defense. I'll bet Kyle is on there.

OldPhiKap
03-08-2011, 02:58 PM
Because there's two ends of the floor you have to play on. And he had the 5th best scoring average in the league to boot. Stay tuned for who the coaches thought should have been all-defense. I'll bet Kyle is on there.

Beat me to it, SD

kong123
03-08-2011, 03:55 PM
Beat me to it, SD

the question was, who voted for Kyle to be POY. I asked if Kyle got to vote for himself. just a joke that missed to mark.

superdave
03-08-2011, 03:59 PM
the question was, who voted for Kyle to be POY. I asked if Kyle got to vote for himself. just a joke that missed to mark.

I bet it wasnt a Unc JOMC grad, that's for sure...

dukebballcamper90-91
03-08-2011, 04:00 PM
Well deserving...

http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?&ATCLID=205112022&DB_OEM_ID=4200

marinbobbyduhon
03-08-2011, 06:34 PM
Did Kyle get a vote? :rolleyes:

Kong123,

I am surprised that you would ask this question given that you are the only person that voted Kyle MOTM of the NC/Duke game last Saturday.

I admit that I thought you did that tongue in cheek...

CDu
03-08-2011, 06:45 PM
Kong123,

I am surprised that you would ask this question given that you are the only person that voted Kyle MOTM of the NC/Duke game last Saturday.

I admit that I thought you did that tongue in cheek...

He was asking if Singler had a vote to submit, not whether or not Singler earned a vote. In other words, he was asking whether Singler's vote for ACC PoY cast by himself.

I think pretty much everybody agrees that Smith was the ACC PoY, and it probably should have been unanimous. The stray vote for Jordan Williams is interesting. The vote for Singler is a bit odd.

My only guess is that someone decided that Singler was more crucial to our success this year than Smith. And it's pretty true that Singler has been crucial to our success. But obviously so has Smith, and Smith has had the more prolific season.

Wheat/"/"/"
03-08-2011, 07:04 PM
I don't have a problem with the selections. I think Henson could have been first team and Singler second based on this seasons play only...but it was a close call and Singler's "body of work" does...and should....matter as a tie breaker.

I have to give a little dig here...I have been seeing a lot of 'if" we had Kyrie..."if" Kyrie had matched up with Marshal...and "if" Kyrie comes back, etc...

There was surely not much sympathy around here with all the crushing injuries UNC faced last year from several impact players at key times that contributed greatly to the season from hell...."just sayin"

And one other thing...can we please give up the tired idea that Roy can't coach defense, or that Roy can't win without a speedy PG? The guy is a good coach, he's won with all types of teams over the years.

...and i thought his comments below regarding those players that did get selected 1st team over his own players were appropriate.

On the news that no Tar Heels made the All-ACC first-team:
“I expected that. I think the true basketball fans and the knowledgeable basketball people would have expected that as well. The guys that did make it, they had great years, too. But the satisfying thing to me is that we had three guys on the second team and they finished sixth, seventh and eighth. And then we had a guy on the third team, so we had four out of the 15. I remember last year was the first time in North Carolina history that we had no one on the first, second or third team or on the defensive team or on the rookie team. So last year we got shut out. You’ve heard me say thousands of times that the teams that do well, the teams that win, their players get the awards and rewards, so I was ecstatic for that part. And I have nothing negative to say about those five guys that made the first team.”

marinbobbyduhon
03-08-2011, 07:04 PM
He was asking if Singler had a vote to submit, not whether or not Singler earned a vote. In other words, he was asking whether Singler's vote for ACC PoY cast by himself.

I think pretty much everybody agrees that Smith was the ACC PoY, and it probably should have been unanimous. The stray vote for Jordan Williams is interesting. The vote for Singler is a bit odd.

My only guess is that someone decided that Singler was more crucial to our success this year than Smith. And it's pretty true that Singler has been crucial to our success. But obviously so has Smith, and Smith has had the more prolific season.

I agree with your theory on why someone might think Kyle is so important to our team and thus deserving of a vote - last week he lead the nation in the plus/minus stats. I don't know if he is still leading that category. I agree that Nolan is the ACC POY, though.

By the way, I should have included a smiley face with my comeback to Kong123. I just saw an opportunity to give him guff for voting Kyle the MOTM last week. :D

DukeDevilDeb
03-08-2011, 07:55 PM
And one other thing...can we please give up the tired idea that Roy can't coach defense, or that Roy can't win without a speedy PG? The guy is a good coach, he's won with all types of teams over the years.



Roy couldn't win with LDrewII... so he did need a speedy PG. And I have heard Roy himself say that he feels that he doesn't coach defense well... big numbers on offense are his goal.

As to Kyrie, we all saw what we could do with him in, then what we couldn't do with him out. I don't recall seeing ANYTHING UNC could do last year, injured players in or out. I'd welcome your comments.

Wheat/"/"/"
03-08-2011, 08:14 PM
Roy couldn't win with LDrewII... so he did need a speedy PG. And I have heard Roy himself say that he feels that he doesn't coach defense well... big numbers on offense are his goal.

As to Kyrie, we all saw what we could do with him in, then what we couldn't do with him out. I don't recall seeing ANYTHING UNC could do last year, injured players in or out. I'd welcome your comments.

Deb...I don't think anyone would call Marshall "speedy".
And I agree Roy will sacrifice a shut down, slow down, defensive strategy for a high octane offense first. But he does coach good defense. As an example, the '09 Championship team was an excellent defensive team, when they wanted to be, as is this years team. It doesn't happen by accident.

Without all the injuries last season I highly doubt UNC loses 17 games....but shoulda, coulda, woulda...the point is we all have to deal with injuries as they come. We could play what ifs every year....

DukeDevilDeb
03-08-2011, 08:19 PM
Deb...I don't think anyone would call Marshall "speedy".
And I agree Roy will sacrifice a shut down, slow down, defensive strategy for a high octane offense first. But he does coach good defense. As an example, the '09 Championship team was an excellent defensive team, when they wanted to be, as is this years team. It doesn't happen by accident.

Without all the injuries last season I highly doubt UNC loses 17 games....but shoulda, coulda, woulda...the point is we all have to deal with injuries as they come. We could play what ifs every year....

And, to some degree, we do play... every year! :)

Newton_14
03-08-2011, 08:32 PM
I have to give a little dig here...I have been seeing a lot of 'if" we had Kyrie..."if" Kyrie had matched up with Marshal...and "if" Kyrie comes back, etc...

There was surely not much sympathy around here with all the crushing injuries (LOL That is too funny) UNC faced last year from several impact players at key times that contributed greatly to the season from hell...."just sayin"

[.”

The UNC team last year was bad with or without the injuries. The season went south before the injuries. They would not have made the tournament either way. The backcourt/wings was the main issue, followed by lack of toughness, lack of shooters, bad chemistry. Also none of the players that lost time due to injury were anywhere near the caliber of Kyrie Irving. It is a major difference. The better comparison is your 2009 team with Lawson. Without him UNC could not even win the ACC Championship, while with him, they won the National Title. '

There is no comparison at all to last year's UNC squad and this year's Duke squad. Like it or not losing Kyrie was a major hit to this team. Every player on the team not named Nolan Smith suffered by not having Kyrie. That is not whining, it is just fact. With him Duke was head and shoulders above the field.

A really good team without him, but an elite team with him. Just sayin...

jv001
03-08-2011, 08:47 PM
Kong123,

I am surprised that you would ask this question given that you are the only person that voted Kyle MOTM of the NC/Duke game last Saturday.

I admit that I thought you did that tongue in cheek...

Am I the only one that gets the feeling kong's having a lot fun on a Duke board? More or less rubbing our noses in it. Maybe I'm wrong, but it sure feels that way. voting for Kyle for MOTM makes me think that's the case. Go Duke!

You can add wheat to that post as well. Go Duke!

Wheat/"/"/"
03-08-2011, 09:23 PM
........... More or less rubbing our noses in it...
You can add wheat to that post as well. Go Duke!

Not guilty! Just standing up for my team in the face of evil:)

OldPhiKap
03-08-2011, 09:30 PM
Not guilty! Just standing up for my team in the face of evil:)

Did Dean say something untoward about Roy?!?

Wheat/"/"/"
03-08-2011, 09:47 PM
I'm not going to take the time to look it up, but if I recall correctly, UNC starters missed something like a total of 48 games last year...and played hurt in a lot more. Injuries were the primary cause of the poor season.
But no excuses, just wanted to point out the lack of sympathy for UNC's injuries last season while the recent focus for sympathy has been on one missing freshman. It's hard for me to feel your pain..

And absolutely Duke would be a better team with Kyrie. He's a really good player.

OldPhiKap
03-08-2011, 09:52 PM
I'm not going to take the time to look it up, but if I recall correctly, UNC starters missed something like a total of 48 games last year...and played hurt in a lot more. Injuries were the primary cause of the poor season.
But no excuses, just wanted to point out the lack of sympathy for UNC's injuries last season while the recent focus for sympathy has been on one missing freshman. It's hard for me to feel your pain..

And absolutely Duke would be a better team with Kyrie. He's a really good player.

No doubt. I have to give Roy a lot of credit, because many (moreso on IC than here, frankly) gave his team up for dead after the GT debacle this year. He has done a heck of a job, as have the kids on the team.

Last year probably had more to do with lack of good leadership on the team than anything. While injuries played a part, internal problems were more of a factor it seems to me. Perhaps the same this year as well, until Roy booted Graves and Drew fled.

Wheat/"/"/"
03-08-2011, 10:09 PM
No doubt. I have to give Roy a lot of credit, because many (moreso on IC than here, frankly) gave his team up for dead after the GT debacle this year. He has done a heck of a job, as have the kids on the team.

Last year probably had more to do with lack of good leadership on the team than anything. While injuries played a part, internal problems were more of a factor it seems to me. Perhaps the same this year as well, until Roy booted Graves and Drew fled.

Oh yea...chemistry was also a big problem too. It had to be now that we can look back and see how things played out.

You've got to be entertained by IC. I'm a UNC fan, and I think that place is pretty off the wall, can't imagine the joy you guys must get by checking in over there.

I was half expecting some idiot to channel the Dean by hanging Roy in effigy early in the season...now they want to donate their first born to the university basketball program:)

Starter
03-08-2011, 10:46 PM
Re: Wheat's contention --

This whole "lack of sympathy" for UNC's injuries is sort of a straw man argument, no? It's not like Duke fans -- at least the ilk I consort with -- were gleefully celebrating when Ed Davis broke his hand. We looked at stuff like that for what it was: a lousy break for a team we don't like. Granted, we didn't hold any vigils or anything, but I don't think any self-respecting fan wants to see a young player get injured, be it affecting their rival or not. I'd imagine if you look back, there are plenty of people who posted on this board disappointed for Davis and others that they got injured, and empathizing with our rivals. (Besides, if UNC had been at full strength, the final score at Cameron might have been a relatively close 82-60 barnburner.)

I also think it's perfectly justifiable for us to do a little bit of "if only" regarding Kyrie's injury this year, and it's not just that our team would have been significantly better. With the climate of college basketball the way it is, we relish every opportunity to watch the players we love, as evidenced by Senior Night being a sort of coronation. Having been to six of Kyrie's high school games, personally, I couldn't wait to begin watching him at Duke. I looked forward to it all summer, in fact. Of course I want Duke to contend for National Titles. But losing Kyrie meant that we haven't had the opportunity to proudly enjoy watching him represent our school -- at least, on the court. So it seems reasonable to split our empathy for a solid young man who hasn't had much of a freshman basketball season to speak of, with a decent level of personal disappointment that we haven't been able to fully enjoy a player we all love.

I think it's obvious that criticism is not in order for either facet.

nocilla
03-09-2011, 09:18 AM
I would just add that even if UNC had not had a single injury all year, they weren't going to contend for the National Championship. So it is not an apples to apples comparison. But just for argument's sake, the biggest injury was when Ed Davis got hurt. That happened in the Duke game, long after the season was already in the tank. Zeller missed 10 games near the beginning of the season but after UNC had already lost to College of Charleston.