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DukieinSoCal
03-07-2011, 12:55 PM
I know this has been discussed in other threads but I thought it would be nice to have a separate thread about what our best lineup is until Kyrie comes back(which I still believe he will at some point)

I want to hear which lineup everyone prefers:

1. Current group with Nolan, Seth, Kyle, Ryan, and Mason
2. Start Andre in place of Ryan and move Kyle over to the 4 spot
3. Start both Plumlees and have Ryan come off the bench

Personally, I think we need some sort of change to see if we can get more production out of the team. Obviously, Ryan and Kyle have not been shooting well from outside. Maybe Ryan will feel less pressure coming off the bench. I think Kyle is better off playing the 4 against bigger, slower defenders and looking for more mid-range shots and drives. And maybe we're even better off going with both Plumlees in an effort to rebound better and rely less on the 3.

Any thoughts?

J_C_Steel
03-07-2011, 01:16 PM
Nolan Smith
Seth Curry
Andre Dawkins
Kyle Singler
Mason Plumlee

With Kyle struggling with his outside shot, I think playing him at the 4-spot could help him become more effective on the inside. I believe Dawkins' range can help open things up, provided he's willing to get dirty on the boards.

Alternatively, I'd love to see the Plumlees together. I think they could be effective on the glass as a two-man unit.

superdave
03-07-2011, 01:25 PM
Heavy minutes should probably shift a little bit depending on our opponent. If a team is bigger, Miles should probably get more minutes at the expense of Tyler and Andre. If a team is smaller, those minutes should go to Andre. Tyler will probably play depending on whether Nolan or Seth is struggling with a defensive matchup.

We also probably shift a little more depending on the game situation. If heaven forbid, we are down and need to score, then Kyle at the 4 with Andre in there would be suitable for maximizing scoring. If we're up and want play our best D, then 2 bigs and Kyle at the 3 is optimal because we can cut off the lane and rebound.

Here's Kedy's stats on big vs. small:

AVERAGE THROUGH UNC 2 GAME (31 games)
-------------------------------------------
Kyle at 3: 21.71 minutes; +9.00 (+0.415 point differential per minute)
Kyle on bench: 5.39 minutes; +0.32 (+0.060 pdpm)
Kyle at 4: 12.68 minutes; +7.55 (+0.595 pdpm)
Kyle at 5: 0.23 minutes; +0.06 (+0.286 pdpm)

CajunDevil
03-07-2011, 01:45 PM
Nolan, Seth, Andre, Kyle and Mason.

The stats are interesting, but I'd be more interested in how they are trending rather than simple averages. I also like the Plumlees playing alongside each other. I love Ryan Kelly's game but he seems to have hit a bit of a wall/slump/etc...

Scorp4me
03-07-2011, 02:00 PM
I definitely think Kyle should be moved to the 4. He's a great player, but his shot hasn't been falling and he continues to take them. They were open looks I get it, but when he goes inside good things happen. Plus Miles and Mason have been playing great lately so it'd give us an effective inside player off the bench for foul problems (assuming Kelly continues his slump). Not sure who you'd put in his spot but you'd certainly have some options.

Kedsy
03-07-2011, 02:21 PM
The stats are interesting, but I'd be more interested in how they are trending rather than simple averages.

We have a whole thread (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?23080-Relative-productivity-of-quot-big-quot-and-quot-small-quot-lineups/page7) on this already. I'm not sure what trend you are interested in, but here is the "big vs. small" breakdown since the first UNC game:


Game Kyle at 4/5 Kyle on bench Kyle at 3
----- ----------- -------------- ------------
UNC 1 10 min, -7 0 min 30 min, +13
Miami 14 min, 0 0 min 26 min, +10
UVa 9 min, -1 17 min, +7 14 min, + 9
GaTech 12 min, +8 4 min, -2 24 min, +16
Temple 8 min, +7 1 min, +1 31 min, +9
VaTech 7 min, +4 0 min 33 min, -8
Clemson 17 min, +9 3 min, -4 20 min, +6
UNC 2 12 min, -4 0 min 28 min, -10


So I don't see much of a performance trend, but other than the Clemson game, the "small" lineup advocated by some is playing between 20% and 35% of the game.

As far as the original question of this thread, the problem with playing the "small" lineup for long periods (as we've been debating for the past year) is it can raise some defensive issues. We can talk about what we want to happen until our faces turn (hopefully Duke) blue, but I'd be very surprised if K makes an about face now and makes the small lineup the predominant lineup at this point in the season.

Which leaves us with possibly changing Miles in for Ryan, and I suppose that's possible based on how everyone practices this week. But I also don't think Coach K would make a change based on one bad game for Ryan and one good game for Miles. Overall, I think Ryan has been playing very well. Unless K sees a drop off in practice, I don't think it would be fair to bench him because he missed a few outside shots in Chapel Hill.

Kedsy
03-07-2011, 02:22 PM
I definitely think Kyle should be moved to the 4. He's a great player, but his shot hasn't been falling and he continues to take them. They were open looks I get it, but when he goes inside good things happen. Plus Miles and Mason have been playing great lately so it'd give us an effective inside player off the bench for foul problems (assuming Kelly continues his slump). Not sure who you'd put in his spot but you'd certainly have some options.

If the coaching staff wanted Kyle to stop taking those shots, all they'd have to do is tell him so. It's silly to think we have to make a radical change in the lineup to keep Kyle from taking long shots.

loldevilz
03-07-2011, 03:23 PM
Definitely

Miles
Mason
Kyle
Nolan
Seth


Miles is so much tougher and stronger than Ryan or Mason and played very well during the UNC game. He has the experience needed for tournament play.
Kyle needs to be at the three. If he doesn't start shooting the ball well, we will lose anyways, we just need to trust that his shot will comeback.
Just like last year, rebounding needs to be a strength of this team to make a run. I think the format last year needs to be the template for this team.

NSDukeFan
03-07-2011, 03:28 PM
I'll take current lineup for $100, Alex.
If we're making requests, I would like to see Miles and Andre getting significant minutes (15-20) off the bench and Tyler providing his disruptive D and pass first offense for 10-12 minutes as well.

DukieinSoCal
03-07-2011, 04:36 PM
Definitely

Miles
Mason
Kyle
Nolan
Seth


Miles is so much tougher and stronger than Ryan or Mason and played very well during the UNC game. He has the experience needed for tournament play.
Kyle needs to be at the three. If he doesn't start shooting the ball well, we will lose anyways, we just need to trust that his shot will comeback.
Just like last year, rebounding needs to be a strength of this team to make a run. I think the format last year needs to be the template for this team.

I'm inclined to favor this lineup as well. I know we'll have minutes for Andre, Ryan, and Tyler as well, but my hope would be that inserting Miles into the starting lineup will yield more defense and better control of the boards. Any championship run will have to start with defense and rebounding. Plus, I'm not sure if Andre is ready to play significant minutes right now. Not quite sure what's going on in his head these days.

Duke4life92
03-07-2011, 09:07 PM
Best Lineups

I know this has been discussed in other threads but I thought it would be nice to have a separate thread about what our best lineup is until Kyrie comes back(which I still believe he will at some point)

I want to hear which lineup everyone prefers:



That would be the starting lineup our hall of fame coach decides to put on the court.:) I think he has earned that and does'nt deserve to be 2nd guessed.But thta's just me,2nd guess away:p

Scorp4me
03-08-2011, 10:48 AM
If the coaching staff wanted Kyle to stop taking those shots, all they'd have to do is tell him so. It's silly to think we have to make a radical change in the lineup to keep Kyle from taking long shots.

This isn't a one game trend for Kyle and the coaching staff obviously isn't telling him to stop shooting. The point is you tell him to stop shooting and you gain nothing (although admittantly you lose the misses). Moving him inside puts him in a position where he can contribute greater (and it wouldn't be radical, it's not as if he hasn't been there before).

Coming from a coaches perspective it's important to put people in a position to succeed, not just limit their failures.

Kedsy
03-08-2011, 10:52 AM
This isn't a one game trend for Kyle and the coaching staff obviously isn't telling him to stop shooting.

My point exactly. They don't want him to stop shooting.

I understand your argument and that you want to go small. I disagree (for defensive reasons) and apparently the Duke coaching staff does too. That's all I'm saying.