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dcarp23
06-27-2007, 09:51 AM
Chad Ford and Ric (Rick?) Bucher are both reporting a three way deal in which KG would go to Phoenix, Stoudemire would come to Atlanta and the Wolves would get Atlanta's draft picks as well as some bodies from both squads.

As a newly developing Hawks fan, I'd be excited about this one. Amare could wreck some house in the East, provided they found someone to get him the ball, and there are some decent free agent options available.

Anyhow, this could get interesting.

JasonEvans
06-27-2007, 10:02 AM
Chad Ford and Ric (Rick?) Bucher are both reporting a three way deal in which KG would go to Phoenix, Stoudemire would come to Atlanta and the Wolves would get Atlanta's draft picks as well as some bodies from both squads.

As a newly developing Hawks fan, I'd be excited about this one. Amare could wreck some house in the East, provided they found someone to get him the ball, and there are some decent free agent options available.

Anyhow, this could get interesting.

I'm hearing this deal is pretty unlikely at this point. The Hawks are said to be more interested in bringing in Luke Ridnour or maybe Monta Ellis for the #11. Also, the scuttlebutt around Atlanta is that the Hawks are strongly considering Yi with the #3 pick.

Yes, I am serious.

-Jason "if you need me, I'll be in the corner beating my head against the wall" Evans

tropical storm
06-27-2007, 10:10 AM
Which Yi are they considering "Yi Gads" or "Yi Uck"?

Dukerati
06-27-2007, 10:18 AM
I heard about the Luke Ridnour rumor (for the #11 pick) and thought it would be a good pick up for the Hawks. If they are not going to draft Conley at #3, I'd rather have the proven and still young NBA commodity in Ridnour rather than the unknown in Law and Critteron.

thebur
06-27-2007, 10:25 AM
Jason,

I know you have more knowledge on this subject, but do you think that the Hawks would be making another mistake with Yi at the 3rd position. I guess they could move down if they really wanted him, trading the coveted 3 for the 6-8 and getting something else out of it.

I will hit up my contacts (one) still around the Hawks just to see what the word on the street is...

dcarp23
06-27-2007, 10:46 AM
I don't know all that much about him, but his numbers haven't blown it out of the water. It is tough to tell with point guards, though, because so much statistically depends on the cast around them.

Does Monta Ellis even play the point? He certainly shined in the playoffs.

ESPN is now reporting Marion to Boston, KG to the Suns and draft picks to the TWolves. Seems to make a lot more sense to PHX, but not sure if it would help the Celts all that much.

thebur
06-27-2007, 11:07 AM
I think that Rdnour would do very well on the Hawks these next few years, they have a lot of "finishers" and another guy to carry some of the ballhandling load in Joe Johnson. On the Sonics, Ridnour was usually the only distributor on the floor, as Ray Allen gets his shots for sure.

I also think that the Celtics would be doing well to get Marion for the 5th pick if they could. Even in a deep draft like this one, you are not guaranteed anything with a pick, and Marion is a proven commodity in the NBA. I am not even a huge fan of his, but value that has shown over the course of 7 seasons from a lottery pick is probably worth more than a number 5 pick.

This draft is going to get very interesting, I think we will see a lot of new jerseys in the local sporting goods stores next year.

Clipsfan
06-27-2007, 01:42 PM
I think that Rdnour would do very well on the Hawks these next few years, they have a lot of "finishers" and another guy to carry some of the ballhandling load in Joe Johnson. On the Sonics, Ridnour was usually the only distributor on the floor, as Ray Allen gets his shots for sure.

I also think that the Celtics would be doing well to get Marion for the 5th pick if they could. Even in a deep draft like this one, you are not guaranteed anything with a pick, and Marion is a proven commodity in the NBA. I am not even a huge fan of his, but value that has shown over the course of 7 seasons from a lottery pick is probably worth more than a number 5 pick.

This draft is going to get very interesting, I think we will see a lot of new jerseys in the local sporting goods stores next year.

I don't see any way that the Celtics get Marion for the 5th pick. I'm sure that there has to be significantly more in the deal (Green etc).

JasonEvans
06-27-2007, 03:58 PM
I don't see any way that the Celtics get Marion for the 5th pick. I'm sure that there has to be significantly more in the deal (Green etc).

Marion is nixing that deal unless he gets a max extension from the Celts. So it ain't happening.

The new deal, that is aupposedly really close to coming down, would be KG to the Suns, Stoudamire to the Hawks, and the #3 + #11 + Zaza + some other Hawks player (not a star) to the TWolves.

I hope the Hawks at least get their #1 in next year's draft back in the deal but I like getting SToudamire with JJ and Josh Smith. That could be a good team in the East... though they still would need a PG.

-Jason "I think this deal works for everyone" Evans

phaedrus
06-27-2007, 04:12 PM
i guess it depends what minnesota prefers:

a) being old, maxed-out, and winning 30 games;

b) being young, having cap flexibility, and winning 20 games (or less).

if i were a fan, i would take b right now.

tommy
06-28-2007, 01:14 AM
Marion is nixing that deal unless he gets a max extension from the Celts. So it ain't happening.

The new deal, that is aupposedly really close to coming down, would be KG to the Suns, Stoudamire to the Hawks, and the #3 + #11 + Zaza + some other Hawks player (not a star) to the TWolves.

I hope the Hawks at least get their #1 in next year's draft back in the deal but I like getting SToudamire with JJ and Josh Smith. That could be a good team in the East... though they still would need a PG.

-Jason "I think this deal works for everyone" Evans

Before you get too excited about Stoudemire, check his numbers with vs. without Steve Nash in the lineup. They're all-star with him and not even close without him. So with the Hawks not having a decent PG to play with him, much less a 2-time (should've been 3-time) MVP, I'd be a little careful with giving up too much for Amare.

thebur
06-28-2007, 09:20 AM
The only thing I have heard is that there are BIG deals afoot that look likely for the Hawks coming into draft day. When he says this, I don't know what it means as far as the KG/Stoudamire, or the Ridnour, but I would think the former.

If this Draft Day isn't exciting it will be the biggest letdown of my non-basketball season basketball season.

bbar7502
06-28-2007, 09:26 AM
am i missing something here, luke ridnour for the 11th pick is crazy. maybe a second round pick. i am sure the hawks can get enough talent with the 11th pick then going for luke.

pfrduke
06-28-2007, 10:45 AM
Before you get too excited about Stoudemire, check his numbers with vs. without Steve Nash in the lineup. They're all-star with him and not even close without him. So with the Hawks not having a decent PG to play with him, much less a 2-time (should've been 3-time) MVP, I'd be a little careful with giving up too much for Amare.

I'm curious - did you actually check these numbers? In the three seasons Nash has been on the Suns, Amare has played in 13 games without Nash. In those 13 games, he averages slightly over 23 pts/gm and slightly over 9 rbs/gm. In the 150 games he's played with Nash, he averages 22.8 and 9.2. I'm sorry, I missed where his numbers are clearly inferior without Nash in the lineup. He admittedly shoots a lower percentage from the field when Nash isn't in, but it's still fairly high (one basket under 50%).

If you're talking about the two years before Nash came to the Suns, let me first remind you that Amare was 20 and 21 and in his first 2 years in the NBA. All he did his first year was average 13.5 and 8.8 and win ROY. All he did his second season was average 20.6 and 9.0. And that was three years ago - he's clearly developed and improved his game since then.

Amare Stoudemire is an excellent power forward - behind Duncan and Garnett, but probably ahead of everybody else. He would instantly be the best interior player in the East if he went to the Hawks. Steve Nash has certainly helped his career, but Amare doesn't exactly turn into a pumpkin when Nash isn't around. Saying that his numbers are "not even close to all-star" without Nash in the lineup is just ludicrous.

If it's your opinion that Amare wouldn't be a star without Nash, that's fine - you're entitled to your opinion. But if you're going to say the numbers back you up, you should at least check and see whether they actually do. Otherwise you end up looking foolish.

JasonEvans
06-28-2007, 10:55 AM
If the Hawks fail to make the Stoudamire deal and end up with Yi and Acie Law then I will have to slit my wrists.

-Jason "when I heard about the Stoudamire deal, I knew it was too good to happen to the Hawks... sigh" Evans

greybeard
06-28-2007, 11:09 AM
Something doesn't add up. How could the Suns give up Amare? Unless, they think that that knee is a ticking time bomb, in which case why would the Hawks go for it? A young Amare for an old KG, don't see the sense to it. KG is longer, but he is not a big, big if you know what I mean. Amare is at this point the better scorer, tends to get into foul trouble.

Maybe they see KG better in the passing game; Diaw, who if Marion goes is going to be on the floor more, seemed to have difficulty being productive with Amare out there. But, that seems backwards.

The knee; I'd be worried about it.

pfrduke
06-28-2007, 11:09 AM
If the Hawks fail to make the Stoudamire deal and end up with Yi and Acie Law then I will have to slit my wrists.

-Jason "when I heard about the Stoudamire deal, I knew it was too good to happen to the Hawks... sigh" Evans

How about Yi and Luke Ridnour and Luke's $18mil/3 year contract? ;)

I hear the current rumor is that Belkin vetoed Amare for the 3 and the 11 (and whatever contracts are necessary to make it work). If so, he clearly has no concern for the best interests of his basketball team.

pfrduke
06-28-2007, 11:19 AM
Something doesn't add up. How could the Suns give up Amare? Unless, they think that that knee is a ticking time bomb, in which case why would the Hawks go for it? A young Amare for an old KG, don't see the sense to it. KG is longer, but he is not a big, big if you know what I mean. Amare is at this point the better scorer, tends to get into foul trouble.

Maybe they see KG better in the passing game; Diaw, who if Marion goes is going to be on the floor more, seemed to have difficulty being productive with Amare out there. But, that seems backwards.

The knee; I'd be worried about it.

I think the thought is more defense than offense. Garnett is a better defender than Stoudemire, and has matched up better against Duncan (Tim posts 24.4/14.4 of 56.4% shooting against Amare in his career, and 20.9/12.2 on 45.9% shooting against Garnett). Plus, if you're talking ticking time bomb, Steve Nash's back fits the bill. For the Suns, this is a short-term focused deal - they think they have a better chance of winning a title in the next two seasons with Garnett than with Stoudemire. Two seasons of effectiveness may be all that Nash has left (of course, Cuban thought his back was cooked three years ago, and we've all seen how that turned out).

And while KG is a long time vet, he's also just 31. If he stays healthy, he could easily have 5-8 more seasons in him.

phaedrus
06-28-2007, 11:49 AM
not just defense but chemistry and intensity. while he hasn't been in the playoffs for awhile, kg is still the league's premier ball-sharing big man and the ultimate competitor. if there's one thing you need to beat the spurs in a 7-game series, it's mental intensity. and i don't mean michael jordan take the last 18 shots and try to win the game by yourself mental intensity, i mean playing to win in game 6 even when things are stacked against you mental intensity.

funny how so recently the spurs built their team to beat shaq, now teams need to build to beat duncan.

greybeard
06-28-2007, 04:07 PM
I think the thought is more defense than offense. Garnett is a better defender than Stoudemire, and has matched up better against Duncan (Tim posts 24.4/14.4 of 56.4% shooting against Amare in his career, and 20.9/12.2 on 45.9% shooting against Garnett). Plus, if you're talking ticking time bomb, Steve Nash's back fits the bill. For the Suns, this is a short-term focused deal - they think they have a better chance of winning a title in the next two seasons with Garnett than with Stoudemire. Two seasons of effectiveness may be all that Nash has left (of course, Cuban thought his back was cooked three years ago, and we've all seen how that turned out).

And while KG is a long time vet, he's also just 31. If he stays healthy, he could easily have 5-8 more seasons in him.

Many people play with bad backs. That knee goes again, he's gone. KG has been in the league how many years. 5-8 seems a stretch, but possible.

The rest of what you said makes sense. Don't particularly think of KG in defensive terms but he is likely to have a better chance with Duncan than Amare. And, the short-term take sounds correct.

I'm still concerned about that knee.

Heard Noah on the radio about an hour ago. His agent told him to get on a plane to Phoenix asap. Looks like Amare is a Hawk to me.

thebur
06-29-2007, 10:14 AM
Many people play with bad backs. That knee goes again, he's gone. KG has been in the league how many years. 5-8 seems a stretch, but possible.

The rest of what you said makes sense. Don't particularly think of KG in defensive terms but he is likely to have a better chance with Duncan than Amare. And, the short-term take sounds correct.

I'm still concerned about that knee.

Heard Noah on the radio about an hour ago. His agent told him to get on a plane to Phoenix asap. Looks like Amare is a Hawk to me.

Man, would still love to see Amare on the Hawks and KG on the Suns. That would make two of my favorite clubs in the league a lot more fun to watch.

KG was the #5 pick in the 1995 NBA draft. He has been in the league for 11 seasons. I know, it seems ridiculous, huh? He however, was only just barely 19 when he was drafted, so he has just turned 31 in May. He has seemed very durable, I could definitely see him being productive for at least 5-6 more years, and barring injury, having a slow downslope over the last 4-5 years of his career.