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dukerev
06-27-2007, 08:29 AM
I was glad to hear that LeBron James is going to honor his commitment to the national team and play in the FIBA tourney this summer. If the USA doesn't win (or can we finish 2nd?), then we won't be in the '08 Olympics. Can you imagine an international basketball competition without the USA? In any case, I hope that LeBron doesn't mail in this summer's competition like he did about 1/3 of the regular season NBA games and at least a few of the playoff games. He's an unbelievable talent, but unless he decides he isn't EVER going to lose, he'll never be the global icon he wants to be. Perhaps Coach K can inspire a bit of that never lose attitude in him.

Classof06
06-27-2007, 03:02 PM
I was glad to hear that LeBron James is going to honor his commitment to the national team and play in the FIBA tourney this summer. If the USA doesn't win (or can we finish 2nd?), then we won't be in the '08 Olympics. Can you imagine an international basketball competition without the USA? In any case, I hope that LeBron doesn't mail in this summer's competition like he did about 1/3 of the regular season NBA games and at least a few of the playoff games. He's an unbelievable talent, but unless he decides he isn't EVER going to lose, he'll never be the global icon he wants to be. Perhaps Coach K can inspire a bit of that never lose attitude in him.

I'm curious to hear which playoff games you'd be referring to...

Clipsfan
06-28-2007, 12:16 PM
I'm curious to hear which playoff games you'd be referring to...

I didn't pay much attention, as the games were boring, but I tend to watch Sportscenter at night and I do remember the talking heads saying that Lebron wasn't showing up to some of the playoff games. I think that's a large part of why everyone was so impressed with his 48 point game, because it (and I think the game before as well?) finally showed that he cared.

phaedrus
06-28-2007, 01:06 PM
the talking heads said that about lebron because they believe the only path for lebron is to be like mike (or kobe) and demand every shot down the stretch - regardless of the double- or triple-teams being thrown at you. as we enlightened, non-mj worshiping dbr posters know, there is more than one way to skin a basketball game. one of them includes being your team's primary scorer and distributor.

what really got me was when magic johnson, of all people, complained that lebron should pass less and score more. if you really think that, magic, why did you average 20 and 11 when you could have been averaging 28 and 6? or maybe 32 and 3? clearly magic missed out on that killer instinct that all star basketball players should have.

Clipsfan
06-28-2007, 01:47 PM
the talking heads said that about lebron because they believe the only path for lebron is to be like mike (or kobe) and demand every shot down the stretch - regardless of the double- or triple-teams being thrown at you. as we enlightened, non-mj worshiping dbr posters know, there is more than one way to skin a basketball game. one of them includes being your team's primary scorer and distributor.

what really got me was when magic johnson, of all people, complained that lebron should pass less and score more. if you really think that, magic, why did you average 20 and 11 when you could have been averaging 28 and 6? or maybe 32 and 3? clearly magic missed out on that killer instinct that all star basketball players should have.

I do know that they were coming down on him for making the big passes at the end of games, although I agreed with Lebron that passing it to Marshall (for example) for the open 3 was a good move. I really thought that they were also discussing whether he was really bringing it in general, not only whether he should be the one to take the last shot. I don't pay all that much attention to them, as I tend to find most of their comments useless.

dukerev
06-28-2007, 04:32 PM
Part of my assertion that LeBron was mailing it in had to do with his number of shooting touches, but not completely. I think that LeBron is much more like Magic than MJ and needs to involve his teammates more (not that MJ didn't involve his teammates - Kerr, Paxson for gamewinners anyone?). Rather there were lots of games in the regular season and a few (sorry that I can't be specific) in the playoffs where he didn't seem to be giving 100 percent effort. Hustle. Defense. Those things. Scoring is one thing, and sometimes he may need to do that more...but just because he isn't shooting doesn't mean he isn't trying (I agree with the previous post-er on that). However, effort and defense have been lacking in his game at times. There was not that indomitable will not to lose every time out on the floor.

gep
06-29-2007, 12:07 AM
what really got me was when magic johnson, of all people, complained that lebron should pass less and score more. if you really think that, magic, why did you average 20 and 11 when you could have been averaging 28 and 6? or maybe 32 and 3? clearly magic missed out on that killer instinct that all star basketball players should have.

I don't know... but maybe Magic thought that LeBron's real asset is scoring. Magic's real asset was getting everyone involved. Plus, Magic had Kareem, Worthy, Wilkes (sp?). There may be a difference here...

thebur
06-29-2007, 09:31 AM
I don't know... but maybe Magic thought that LeBron's real asset is scoring. Magic's real asset was getting everyone involved. Plus, Magic had Kareem, Worthy, Wilkes (sp?). There may be a difference here...

I see what you are saying as Magic and Lebron's different skill sets, but Magic could pretty much do anything he wanted on a basketball court. Let's not forget that he was droppin 40 points in the finals as a rookie!

devildownunder
07-02-2007, 10:43 AM
I was glad to hear that LeBron James is going to honor his commitment to the national team and play in the FIBA tourney this summer. If the USA doesn't win (or can we finish 2nd?), then we won't be in the '08 Olympics. Can you imagine an international basketball competition without the USA? In any case, I hope that LeBron doesn't mail in this summer's competition like he did about 1/3 of the regular season NBA games and at least a few of the playoff games. He's an unbelievable talent, but unless he decides he isn't EVER going to lose, he'll never be the global icon he wants to be. Perhaps Coach K can inspire a bit of that never lose attitude in him.

LeBron wasn't mailing in anything in the playoffs. Regular season may be a different story but he brought it every night in the postseason. How else do you think THAT roster makes the finals? What, Drew Gooden carried them while LeBron took a night off? Please.

devildownunder
07-02-2007, 10:48 AM
the talking heads said that about lebron because they believe the only path for lebron is to be like mike (or kobe) and demand every shot down the stretch - regardless of the double- or triple-teams being thrown at you. as we enlightened, non-mj worshiping dbr posters know, there is more than one way to skin a basketball game. one of them includes being your team's primary scorer and distributor.

what really got me was when magic johnson, of all people, complained that lebron should pass less and score more. if you really think that, magic, why did you average 20 and 11 when you could have been averaging 28 and 6? or maybe 32 and 3? clearly magic missed out on that killer instinct that all star basketball players should have.



No, magic wasn't about passing, or anything else, above winning. He took a look at who LeBron plays with and rightly pointed out that he needs to play with more agression at the offensive end. And, always when it comes to basketball, magic was right. Just ask the Pistons about game 5. The cavaliers lose that game and probably the series if LeBron defers. Getting everyone involved is essential over the course of the season but when it comes right down to the defining moments. You have to be the man. That doesn't mean taking every shot necessarily, but you must make yourself the first option and not stand on fundamentals.

devildownunder
07-02-2007, 10:51 AM
I didn't pay much attention, as the games were boring, but I tend to watch Sportscenter at night and I do remember the talking heads saying that Lebron wasn't showing up to some of the playoff games. I think that's a large part of why everyone was so impressed with his 48 point game, because it (and I think the game before as well?) finally showed that he cared.

I'm sorry but this is absurd. Wake up from your boredom and watch a game or two and THEN mouth off.

I used to live in Cleveland and i've followed LeBron's career since he was in high school. The guy does EVERYTHING for that team and he has since day one of the first preseason game after they drafted him. Question many things about LBJ -- his defense, his shot, his offensive philosophy -- but don't ever question his effort and will to win. The evidence just isn't there.

Mcluhan
07-02-2007, 03:12 PM
I'm sorry but this is absurd. Wake up from your boredom and watch a game or two and THEN mouth off.

I used to live in Cleveland and i've followed LeBron's career since he was in high school. The guy does EVERYTHING for that team and he has since day one of the first preseason game after they drafted him. Question many things about LBJ -- his defense, his shot, his offensive philosophy -- but don't ever question his effort and will to win. The evidence just isn't there.

Yep. Story checks out. That team is horrible without LeBron (people really need to get over the persistent idea that Larry Hughes is a decent 2nd, or even 3rd option).

Classof06
07-02-2007, 04:04 PM
I'm sorry but this is absurd. Wake up from your boredom and watch a game or two and THEN mouth off.

I used to live in Cleveland and i've followed LeBron's career since he was in high school. The guy does EVERYTHING for that team and he has since day one of the first preseason game after they drafted him. Question many things about LBJ -- his defense, his shot, his offensive philosophy -- but don't ever question his effort and will to win. The evidence just isn't there.


I agree. The first problem with Clipsfan's statement is that he didn't even really watch the games.

I also think for dukerev to say Lebron needs to involve his teammates more is pretty crazy. Most people would say he defers to his teammates to a fault. He got killed by the national media for finding Donyell Marshall for a game-winning wide-open three in Game 1 of the ECF (even though it was the correct basketball play).

In fact, Lebron did the same thing with Damon Jones in the first round of the '06 playoffs, Damon Jones makes it, and nobody says a word.

dukerev
07-02-2007, 05:33 PM
I hope that I didn't say that I thought that LeBron needed to involve his teammates more. If I did, it wasn't what I meant. I do think that he has been criticized for not involving his teammates enough and for involving them too much. My point was that I think his game is more like Magic's than MJ's. However, I don't think that his effort or his drive is like either of those guys...yet.

LeBron does need to learn to play his own game, i.e. the game that best fits his abilities. I don't think that he's completely done that yet. He's unbelievably talented and is doing quite well. However, he's still learning the game. That is not my criticism, though.

Clearly, Cleveland would be awful without him. Clearly, they would not have made the finals and probably wouldn't have even been a playoff team. I'm not suggesting either of these things.

His own stated purpose is to become the "Global Icon" though. That is a marketing position. It is not a (stated) desire to win championships. I'm sure he does want to win championships, but what he says is that he wants to be the next Warren Buffett (not the next Michael Jordan or Larry Bird or Bill Russell). He did take games off this year. His talent makes him able to still have decent games, but he wasn't outworking everyone else on the floor.

My hope for our national team is that he starts to grind (in golfer's terms), whether he's having a great game or merely a good one.