MBB: Duke 70, Clemson 59 Post-Game Thread

[JBDuke]

Put your post-game thoughts here.

[bluepenguin]

Why didn't he start? I thought K always started all seniors on senior night.

[Klemnop]

Congrats to Duke - especially the Seniors. Nice way to go out.

For what it's worth that was absolutely Clemsons' best shot. Duke took it and handled it and was never really in trouble. Even when they were in trouble they weren't in trouble. That's a good team. Better yet, that's the makings of a great team.

For Clemson I can only hope they didn't play their best effort in vein. With UMd's loss Clemson can control its own destiny to finish 4th for tournament seeding and secure a Friday date with BC - a veritable play-in game for the NCAAs.

As always, my hat is off to Duke and its fans. Class all the way.

Klem

[NSDukeFan]

What an amazing record at Cameron for Kyle and Nolan. A great finish to their Cameron careers. I can't believe it has been four years already. They have been so fun to watch. Great game as well, led by our seniors. Nicely done.

[Son of Mojo]

Don't know if we should take credit for beating a team that was victimized by calls (eyes rolling so fast I think they're about to pop out :rolleyes: ), but it was a tough game. Kyle and Nolan brought it well (though there were still some missed shots that should've dropped for both) and was impressed with Seth and Mason (keep getting the ball deep in the post for hooks!!). We do need some more bench help and a bit more crispness the rest of the way. Still hoping KI might at least suit up so we see a yellow puddle on the wrong sideline Saturday night--GTHC!! Next!

PS--You let the whoooooooooooole team down!!! Loved it!

[wsb3]

Hard fought game. Seth hit some big shots at a crucial time. Glad to see the seniors go out winners. Terrible officiating and I mean both ways. Worse officiated game I can recall this year.

[Bluedevil114]

Kyle was Mr. everything tonight. Did all the dirty work. Nolan had a few turnovers but besides that was our leader again. He was finding guys for easy buckets and led Duke in scoring again tonight.

Seth Curry missed early shots but was huge in the second half hitting big buckets in the lane, at the stripe and the three.

I thought Thornton played solid defense, Kelly was huge on the boards and Mason was part of the offense tonight as they worked a lot through him. Mason is starting to be a force and allowing the offense to come to him. He even helped break the press tonight. A very solid night for Mason!!

[House G]

Congrats to Nolan and Kyle--you guys are two of my favorite Duke players of all time!

[Billy Dat]

The first half was awful, as usual it seems. Maybe Senior Night-itis, but the offense was clogged, too much Nolan/Kyle watching, too little Nolan/Kyle getting others involved, and it carried over to a sluggish defensive effort. When they quickly erased our 11 point lead, we did not respond well.

I love how we came out in the second half running the offense through Mason, allowing him to handle and distribute. It took the focus off Nolan and Kyle allowing them to work off the ball, it created more space, got Mason involved, and opened things up for Seth, too. Who knew the big guy had it in him to handle and pass like that? I thought it was a brilliant adjustment and was yelling at the TV to keep giving him the ball because he was making a lot of good things happen out there. The defense picked up in kind, and we were able to take control. The inconsistent officiating was bad on both sides, and Nolan let himself get a little too into the chipiness with Stitt.

Like a lot of games, I felt really down at halftime, especially after watching the Holes pull one out in Tally, but the new wrinkle of Mason as point center gives me some hope that we can keep evolving. Honestly, though, one has to feel that the Heels have all the momentum and mojo heading into Saturday's regular season championship game. But, that usually means something off the script will happen. Should be a really good one.

[BlueDster]

What an appropriate way for Kyle and Nolan to end their Cameron careers. In a hard-fought win, Nolan left on a breakaway dunk, while Kyle left after getting fouled on a rebound, then hitting a free throw. How many times have we seen these players do each of those things?

I can't believe the next time Duke suits up at home, these two players will not be on the court.

[geraldsneighbor]

Congrats to Kyle, Nolan and Casey on outstanding careers that will be remembered for a long, long time. It was tough for me as a fan to see them exit the game that last time. The finality of four awesome years coming to a game really hit me, but I know that following this year they will be on to great things in life. Congrats guys. You make Duke fans proud to be Duke fans.

[cspan37421]

Good line about Mason being point center; he played very well and in control the second half.

Clemson played very physical, but I think that will help us in the NCAAT. My recollection is that in the tourney, esp. early, teams tend to drape themselves over us and dare the refs to call a foul on them. Nolan's 2 pushoffs late may have been out of frustration. I hope we can avoid that and just let the refs call the game however they'll call it. We had 20 turnovers tonight to just 13 assists. 12 of those 20 were from our senior leadership. Obviously we need to cut down on that and keep the ball movement going like we did in the 2nd half.

Great contrib by Seth, and although Mason played well, overall we should have been stronger on the defensive glass. Ballhandling was a surprisingly flawed area tonight. Then again, Clemson was all over our guys like a romantically frustrated TSA agent. Not sure how often we'll see that.

Finally, are Patrick and Elmore done now for us for the year, or could they slither out during the ACCT?

To all our players: Well done men, well done. Now let's finish it in Chapel Hill.

[mattman91]

Singler/Smith 65-2 in Cameron. Way to protect the house. Nice to see Casey get some playing time as well...

We have some serious work to do if we want to beat UNC Saturday and be crowned ACC regular season champs.

[RoyalBlue08]

The positives for me: 1.) Great to see Kyle and Nolan go out with a win. 2.) Nice to see the other guys show significantly more fight in the second half.

The negatives: 1.) Len Elmore. 2.) Someone other than Kyle needs to start boxing out on the defensive boards. 3.) Len Elmore.

[cspan37421]

Why didn't he start? I thought K always started all seniors on senior night.

Either you forgot the winking smiley or you really need to watch more Duke basketball (and less UNC basketball from the Smith years).

[DukeUsul]

Why didn't he start? I thought K always started all seniors on senior night.

No not really. He's never made a habit out of it. You must be confusing him with El Deano (I'm not sure why), who always did it, even if it meant starting three scrubs.

[geraldsneighbor]

Apparently Mike Patrick believes something named Brad Brownly is coaching the Clemson Tigers.

[Bomar]

even when things were a bit rough tonight, I still had confidence in this team. I don't know why, but it was just a feeling. Congrats to Nolan and Kyle, I can't believe this is the last time I will ever see them play at Cameron.

Did Dawkins ever play any minutes tonight?

[Chris Randolph]

Bring on Carolina

[ns7]

No not really. He's never made a habit out of it. You must be confusing him with El Deano (I'm not sure why), who always did it, even if it meant starting three scrubs.

Dean wouldn't take a timeout to substitute either. I remember rooting for a lot of live action without any chances for substitutions.

[cspan37421]

We have some serious work to do if we want to beat UNC Saturday and be crowned ACC regular season champs.

And we know which school we can thank for coming up with that "alternative" method of being an ACC champion.

[dball]

Why didn't he start? I thought K always started all seniors on senior night.

?? Dean Smith did that for a number of years though. Don't recall that being the usual MO for K.

Might have been interesting to see a starting backcourt of J.D. Simpson and Ryan Caldbeck in 2001.

[SCMatt33]

This game just had a very weird feel for me. I thought that after a loss, Duke would come out and bury Clemson, but give them credit for hanging around. It wasn't the mistakes we made in this game but how we made them. The official box score isn't out yet, but it looked like Clemson did a very good job of converting both turnovers and offensive rebounds into points. This was a product of Duke committing live ball turnovers above the foul line leading to breaks, even after the press was broken. On the boards, they simply got position underneath and got layups without having to reset the offense.

When Duke was into the game, they executed very well, especially on D. Clemson had a couple of long stretches without field goals, including one that I think went about 10 minutes in the first half. It just seemed that the team would put it on cruise control for unusually long stretches. I rarely talk about something as a long term problem, unless it has been a long term trend, but this seems to go back all the way to the first Carolina game. Duke has come out flat to start most of the games since then, and we seemingly had that problem solved tonight, but gave up that 12-0 run. The only thing that I can think of is that with the bench starting to get really short, as Miles and Dre continue to disappear, guys are saving themselves for the postseason.

Hopefully, we come out strong Saturday, because we probably won't be able to overcome another 14 point halftime deficit.

[cspan37421]

Dean wouldn't take a timeout to substitute either. I remember rooting for a lot of live action without any chances for substitutions.

It seldom hurt UNC, interestingly enough. K is less willing to stray from a pure meritocracy than Dean was, though Casey Peters getting in at 0:37 is one example. But for Dean, yeah, you could get up to a few minutes against his seniors, starters, 2nd teamers, or scrubs. And he'd put them all in at the start, not work them in gradually. But they usually held their own, IIRC.

[marinbobbyduhon]

The positives for me: 1.) Great to see Kyle and Nolan go out with a win. 2.) Nice to see the other guys show significantly more fight in the second half.

The negatives: 1.) Len Elmore. 2.) Someone other than Kyle needs to start boxing out on the defensive boards. 3.) Len Elmore.

Another big positive was Seth. I was relieved that Seth had such a great game tonight after the emotional game at VT. I was concerned about how he would react. I needn't have worried at all. He has the heart of a champion!

[dball]

Apparently Mike Patrick believes something named Brad Brownly is coaching the Clemson Tigers.

Early on, he also referred to him as Brad Brownwell.

[Saratoga2]

I thought both teams played with a lot of defensive pressure and neither team handled it that well. Unlike another post, I think this game was very much in doubt until the last 10 minutes.

What helped us a lot was Kyle's determined play on both sides of the ball. In addition, Seth found himself guarded by a smaller player and able to hit in a big way. We had good games from Ryan, Mason and Tyler. All contributed a great deal in their own way. Tyler in particular is a true point guard and can help relieve the pressure against teams like Clemson. He also plays tough in your face defense, so really bothered the Clemson guards at times.

Nolan also had a good scoring game as usual but he did seem to feel the pressure that was being applied to his ball handling. Still would like him to play off the ball more than he did and let Seth or Tyler take more of the pressure of getting the ball up.

It looked like coach K chewed out Andre for his errant in bound pass, but he did get back into the game and applied some really solid defensive efforts during that time. Of course coach K chewed out the whole team for their sloopy effort during the first half.

An important win for Duke going into Saturday. Hope Singler was not hurt too badly in the foul just before he was taken out.

[cspan37421]

The only thing that I can think of is that with the bench starting to get really short, as Miles and Dre continue to disappear, guys are saving themselves for the postseason.

Miles did get some 1st half burn, IIRC, and I just remember 2 plays. One, a silly reach in foul on a Clemson defensive rebound. The other, later on, he TORE the ball away from a Clemson player in battling for a rebound. I mean, he really put his whole torso into it, which was very cool.

If I were superstitious, I'd tell him to stop shaving for a bit. He had a beard last summer, and some of us though it might presage a trend for Duke big (mountain) men.

On that thought - can you see Mason with a beard? It might be Nowitzki-esque. And, Mason DID take that long jumper to beat the shot clock (almost banked it in).

[uh_no]

The first half was awful, as usual it seems.

we scored 36 points....not sure how that qulifies as awful...

[Chris Randolph]

Concerning: 20 turnovers, Nolan with 8!!!

Positive: Free throw shooting and Seth/Mason/Tyler

[sagegrouse]

From the Pre-Game Thread:



Questions for the week are mostly about Duke:

1. Will the Devils try to emphasize inside scoring, given Mason's efficiency (4-5) against Virginia Tech?

Yep. But not by our bigs, who scored only 13 points but grabbed 15 boards. Kyle and Nolan drove the lane repeatedly, and though they missed some shots they would normally make, they were effective. Also, kudos to Mason for some good moves to the basket.




2. Who gets to chase Andre Young around the court? Should Seth and Tyler bring their track shoes?
Andre Young was not a factor offensively, as he has been in other games. Duke's defense was good all night.



3. In the normal Duke starting lineup, it looks like Kyle would be guarded by 6-5 Tanner Smith. How will the offense utilize Kyle this week?
Kyle played offense every way he could: outside, inside, rebounds. The three to start the game was a good sign. His 11 RBs included five on the offensive board.



4. Live by the three, die by the three. After a 4-20 performance against the Hokies, are there any predictions for Wednesday night?

Seven for 17 (41%) is more than OK, and yes we noticed the rebound of Seth from the VT game.

Overall assessment: Duke's defense was excellent, holding the Tigers to 30% and 21% from 3-pt range. Clemson's swarming defense produced 14 steals and 20 Duke TOs. That kept the Tigers in the game and helped them during two strong comebacks.

This was a gritty Duke win, like many this year. It seemed almost like an NCAA contest.

sagegrouse

[uh_no]

Concerning: 20 turnovers, Nolan with 8!!!

Positive: Free throw shooting and Seth/Mason/Tyler

I think mason has been working hard at FTs....every time right before the secon dhalf starts...he's just sitting there taking foul shots

Obv the turnovers are because of the pressure, but at least we didn't fold like we did against st. johns, which is promising.

[Billy Dat]

we scored 36 points....not sure how that qulifies as awful...

It was the clogged toilet offense and sluggish defense. Regardless of how many times we scored, I thought we looked bad. The second half was a different story.

[Dr. Tina]

So happy for Nolan, Kyle, and Casey to win on Sr. Night. Also, how wonderful that we've had back-to-back years now of going 17-0 at home. That's really special.

Kyle had a great night! He went 5-12 shooting, with 18 points and 11 rebounds (5 offensive). A couple of TO's but not bad.

Nolan seemed to have more Sr. Night jitters. He went 7-20 shooting, with 21 points (5-8 at the line), and while he had 7 assists (Marshall had 8 for those keeping track of that contest), Nolan also had an uncharacteristic 8 turnovers.

Curry handled the ball handling like a pro, adding 18 points and shooting 50% from 3. It's good to see the VT game not carry over into this one.

Mason was just awesome! He was playing his butt off tonight, showing a lot of fire and hustle out there. He had 8 points, 7 rebounds, and 5 blocks. Not to mention he did really well from the line....4-5!!! Some of those passes were really nice, and I hated that he got called for traveling (even if accurate) for that fluke shot. He simply needs to get the ball WAY MORE than he does.

Tyler played solid ball, and it's obvious that K feels comfortable having him be one of the first guys off the bench. Tyler had 18 minutes compared to Miles and Andre. They only had 6 minutes a piece.

Now it's time to bring on the Tarholes! I have to say that it'll probably be much, much sweeter if we can clinch the ACC regular season title on their home floor...what a nice litter dagger that would be!

Oh, and, by the way, Yahoo Sports had Kyrie listed in their box score. Wishful thinking?

GO DUKE!!!!

[uh_no]

It was the clogged toilet offense and sluggish defense.

Well, that seems to describe our team overall.....not that I think the defensive effort isn't there....but people get beaten so often....and a big ends up losing his man so often....very easy to exploit come tourney time

[superdave]

This game just had a very weird feel for me. I thought that after a loss, Duke would come out and bury Clemson, but give them credit for hanging around. It wasn't the mistakes we made in this game but how we made them. The official box score isn't out yet, but it looked like Clemson did a very good job of converting both turnovers and offensive rebounds into points. This was a product of Duke committing live ball turnovers above the foul line leading to breaks, even after the press was broken. On the boards, they simply got position underneath and got layups without having to reset the offense.

When Duke was into the game, they executed very well, especially on D. Clemson had a couple of long stretches without field goals, including one that I think went about 10 minutes in the first half. It just seemed that the team would put it on cruise control for unusually long stretches. I rarely talk about something as a long term problem, unless it has been a long term trend, but this seems to go back all the way to the first Carolina game. Duke has come out flat to start most of the games since then, and we seemingly had that problem solved tonight, but gave up that 12-0 run. The only thing that I can think of is that with the bench starting to get really short, as Miles and Dre continue to disappear, guys are saving themselves for the postseason.

Hopefully, we come out strong Saturday, because we probably won't be able to overcome another 14 point halftime deficit.

Thanks for the breakdown, albeit discouraging.

I know we have to not only play better, but actually get better. I know we can get on a roll, but also need a few matchup breaks and jumpshots to fall our way later on in the tournament.

[roywhite]

Well, that seems to describe our team overall.....not that I think the defensive effort isn't there....but people get beaten so often....and a big ends up losing his man so often....very easy to exploit come tourney time

Perhaps true somewhat in the first half, but Duke's defense in the 2nd half was very good IMO, and some numbers bear that out.

Official boxscore (https://www.nmnathletics.com//pdf8/743788.pdf?ATCLID=205107634&SPSID=22724&SPID=1845&DB_OEM_ID=4200)

Clemson shot 23.5% in the second half (8-34)
Duke had 8 blocked shots, Mason with 5
Rebounding was better in the second half

[NovaScotian]

No not really. He's never made a habit out of it. You must be confusing him with El Deano (I'm not sure why), who always did it, even if it meant starting three scrubs.

i always liked that about the dean. he even started six seniors one night and took the technical.

question: what were the crazies chanting when stitt got thoses three quick calls against him and the tigers were huddling up?

question two: what in gods name was up with those goggles narcisse was wearing? what a spaz, huh? looked worse than horace grant out there.

[UrinalCake]

We need to give Mason more touches in the post. The only time he gets the ball are when he grabs an offensive rebound or when he comes out to the perimeter. Then, he tends to force things because he knows he won't get the ball back if he gives it up.

Not a dominating performance but a solid win nonetheless. We better hope our threes are falling this weekend.

[Johnboy]

question: what were the crazies chanting when stitt got thoses three quick calls against him and the tigers were huddling up?


"You let the whole team DOWN!"

[northernduke]

It seldom hurt UNC, interestingly enough. K is less willing to stray from a pure meritocracy than Dean was, though Casey Peters getting in at 0:37 is one example. But for Dean, yeah, you could get up to a few minutes against his seniors, starters, 2nd teamers, or scrubs. And he'd put them all in at the start, not work them in gradually. But they usually held their own, IIRC.

I actually appreciated that Dean did that with his guys. If they competed in practice to for 4 years to make the team better, I think they deserve at least 1 start.

[tieguy]

I actually appreciated that Dean did that with his guys. If they competed in practice to for 4 years to make the team better, I think they deserve at least 1 start.

Agreed. Would have loved to have seen Casey get his moment in the sun 39 minutes earlier.

[Kewlswim]

We need to give Mason more touches in the post. The only time he gets the ball are when he grabs an offensive rebound or when he comes out to the perimeter. Then, he tends to force things because he knows he won't get the ball back if he gives it up.

Not a dominating performance but a solid win nonetheless. We better hope our threes are falling this weekend.

Hi,

Our entry passes are so atrocious, maybe Coach K figures we are better off just having him clean up the garbage?

GO DUKE!

[UrinalCake]

This could actually be a factor when we play this weekend, as it will be UNC's Senior Day. I took a look at their official roster and their seniors are three guys I've never heard of. Will they get the start? If so, can Duke capitalize and take an early lead?

[Kedsy]

I haven't seen a lot of Clemson this season, but in the pre-game thread, Klemnop said they didn't press all the time like under Purnell. Was he joking or something? I was surprised to see Clemson apply full court pressure for pretty much the entire game.

Also, the official box score listed Ryan Kelly with 6 rebounds, but to me it seemed like he had at least twice that many. I thought Ryan played a great game on the boards.

Finally, I went to the during-game thread (which I don't usually read because I'm watching the game on a television far away from my computer) and I was appalled by all the negativity. More than appalled; it more or less made me sick to my stomach. I couldn't read more than a couple pages. What is wrong with some of you people?

[UrinalCake]

I haven't seen a lot of Clemson this season, but in the pre-game thread, Klemnop said they didn't press all the time like under Purnell. Was he joking or something? I was surprised to see Clemson apply full court pressure for pretty much the entire game.

My guess is that it was working so they stuck with it.

[Greg_Newton]

BTW, I thought Thornton quietly had a nice positive impact once again today. He had two "steals" that won't show up in the score sheet - his "mauling" of Stitt that got Elmore so riled up, and when he barreled full speed into that double-screen before they were set, drawing the moving screen foul. He also had a great strip under the basket late in the game, and another big rebound in the post - I love how willing he is to mix it up with the bigs. He's like a fearless little pitbull nipping at their ankles.:cool:

[Duke84]

It's time for someone to have "the talk" with Mike Patrick.

[Richard Berg]

The negatives: 1.) Len Elmore. 2.) Someone other than Kyle needs to start boxing out on the defensive boards. 3.) Len Elmore.
Really? I thought Elmore was fine. In particular, I was glad to hear him stick up for players (on both sides) in the face of some very confused officiating.

Mike Patrick, on the other hand, is edging toward Vitale-levels of senility...but without the corresponding entertainment value.

[TigerTown]

Not sure it was our "best shot"....a number of plays we have made throughout the season were there and we didn't make them tonight. That said the opponent always does have something to do with that. We played well enough to give us a chance to win, but yet again this year weren't quite good enough to close it out.

Now we obviously need to beat VT Saturday getting us the 4 seed, and then beat BC again which would likely be a 4/5 seed game for that 4th NCAA spot for the ACC in the Friday games.

Sort of wish there was a way to beat VT and be the 5 seed getting us one more win on Thursday but...it is what it is....

[Klemnop]

I haven't seen a lot of Clemson this season, but in the pre-game thread, Klemnop said they didn't press all the time like under Purnell. Was he joking or something? I was surprised to see Clemson apply full court pressure for pretty much the entire game.

I suppose there's a fine difference between "pressing" and "picking up your man full court". I don't recall that Clemson was pressing more than a handful of times last night - and certainly nothing as coordinated as Oliver Purnell's Triangle Press that we used to run about 70% of the time.

It's been pretty standard for us to have our guards pick up the ball as soon as it is inbounded and keep the ballhandler under cover full court. This is more to disrupt the offense and make it more difficult for the primary ballhandler to get to his spot to initiate offense than it is to create a turnover.

My experience with "press" is that it is a high risk/high reward strategy designed to a) create turnovers that lead to easy baskets, b) generate 10 second violations and, c) wear down the opponent (physically and mentally). What Clemson played last night - and has played all season - has very few of those elements. We just play in-your-shorts man-to-man defense for 35 seconds beginning with the inbounds.

Apologies if my post yesterday was misleading. There is a reason that KenPom has Clemson as the 13th best defensive squad nationally (though only 4th in the ACC.) We play defense, first and foremost.

[millerecu]

I am always happy for a win on senior night.....but especially two of my all time favorites in Singler and Smith.

Wow was Len Elmore brutal or what last night....typical carowina fan......Duke can't do anything without the refs help!

[Matches]

It seldom hurt UNC, interestingly enough. K is less willing to stray from a pure meritocracy than Dean was, though Casey Peters getting in at 0:37 is one example. But for Dean, yeah, you could get up to a few minutes against his seniors, starters, 2nd teamers, or scrubs. And he'd put them all in at the start, not work them in gradually. But they usually held their own, IIRC.

I recall one year where Dean started several scrubs and they got behind FSU 10-0 before he could get them out of the game. UNC ended up losing by 10.

Glad to see Casey got in the game briefly, though.

[78Devil]

I found this game discouraging, especially so since it looks like most of the fans were happy with it. Am I that much of a grouch? We had a mediocre team on our own home court on senior night, and couldn't put it away without some timely referee help. I think we would have won anyway (barely), but if Duke doesn't do a better job of basketball fundamentals -- especially not turning over -- it will be a short March.

Having said all that, Nolan and Singler will be truly missed. I am grateful to them for staying for their senior years, and for their neverending effort and hard work. They are wonderful representatives of Duke.

BTW -- I agree that Len Elmore was truly awful last night. But it made me especially mad when several times he was right.

[Klemnop]

Not sure it was our "best shot"....a number of plays we have made throughout the season were there and we didn't make them tonight. That said the opponent always does have something to do with that.

I can think of only one game all season (against FSU in Littlejohn) where we finished off a high percentage of our opportunities around the rim -and- had a good shooting night from outside. And that was, of course, our best win of the season so far. We simply don't have a high skill level for finishing plays around the basket...and the 12-15 missed/rimmed out shots from 5 feet and in last night attest to that.

I thought we did a great job of getting the ball in position to score (which we sometimes struggle with) and I thought our guys did a good job of not acting like the ball was a grenade when they got it in good positions (which we sometimes struggle with.) Also thought our offesnive rebounding was very good. And, as the announcers noted, it only took us THREE charges to figure out that we needed to pull up in the lane and take a jump shot instead of trying to plow through defenders for lay-ups.

Defensively I thought we (Clemson) were outstanding. 70 points was Duke's third lowest offensive output of the season - and worst at home. All circumstances surrounding the game considered (Duke wanting to rebound from a tough loss and Senior Night) I don't think Clemson could have asked for more than what they were able to do defensively. Not to mention we managed to do it without being chippy, I thought. Just good, clean, hard, man-to-man defense.

And we were what? 13-15 from the FT line? Are you kidding me? Clemson? In a big game? On the road? Hitting 87% from the line?

I'd say Duke got our best shot. Kudos to the Devils for simply being better.

[slower]

Finally, I went to the during-game thread (which I don't usually read because I'm watching the game on a television far away from my computer) and I was appalled by all the negativity. More than appalled; it more or less made me sick to my stomach. I couldn't read more than a couple pages. What is wrong with some of you people?

There's NOTHING wrong with us. We have eyes, and we're tired of watching the endless string of pathetic first-half performances. There's a whole laundry list of things that should have, seemingly, been corrected at this late stage in the season. We're frustrated because, at times, this team appears to bear no resemblance to a Top 5 (much less #1) team. And we are legitimately concerned that there's another (too) early tournament exit in the cards this year.

And I'm personally tired of hearing some people claim that this is a "better team" without Kyrie. That's plainly ridiculous. And also, if this IS a historically weak ACC, why are we having problems putting away these lesser teams? Maybe we're just overrated?

My expectations are obviously too high. Every win can't be a 20-30 point blowout, as so many on here are fond of predicting before almost EVERY game. I guess parity truly does exist, for this year, at least.

And no, I'm no less a fan than anybody else. I'm just not an ostrich or a Pollyanna and I vent my frustrations publicly. Apologies.

[MCFinARL]

I


It looked like coach K chewed out Andre for his errant in bound pass, but he did get back into the game and applied some really solid defensive efforts during that time. Of course coach K chewed out the whole team for their sloopy effort during the first half.



Yes--although he didn't get in at all during the second half until the very end, if I'm not mistaken, despite those efforts. I felt bad for Andre seeing the replay of Coach K's shouting spree, as it appeared Andre hit his own chest as if to say "my fault, Coach"--which only seemed to make Coach K angrier, as he jumped up and down and yelled even more. I don't know anything about what goes on in practice, etc., and I'm obviously not in a position to second guess Coach K, but from an outside viewpoint it seems that Andre is given much less room for error right now than most of the other players on the team.

[oldnavy]

There's NOTHING wrong with us. We have eyes, and we're tired of watching the endless string of pathetic first-half performances. There's a whole laundry list of things that should have, seemingly, been corrected at this late stage in the season. We're frustrated because, at times, this team appears to bear no resemblance to a Top 5 (much less #1) team. And we are legitimately concerned that there's another (too) early tournament exit in the cards this year.

And I'm personally tired of hearing some people claim that this is a "better team" without Kyrie. That's plainly ridiculous. And also, if this IS a historically weak ACC, why are we having problems putting away these lesser teams? Maybe we're just overrated?

My expectations are obviously too high. Every win can't be a 20-30 point blowout, as so many on here are fond of predicting before almost EVERY game. I guess parity truly does exist, for this year, at least.

And no, I'm no less a fan than anybody else. I'm just not an ostrich or a Pollyanna and I vent my frustrations publicly. Apologies.

No, I would say spoiled would be a better description of how you describe yourself. We have a top 5 team, sitting at 13-2 and 27-3, playing for the regular season ACC title and a number one seed in the NCAAT, a very legitimate FF team and you are complaining that we are only winning by an average margin of 18 points a game.

How do you think that sounds to someone on the outside looking in?

Oh, and btw this is with a mid-season re-tool after the loss of the best player in the nation....

Get a grip and enjoy what we have dude!

[DukieInBrasil]

I know this has been brought up before, but it was blazingly obvious vs VT and again vs Clemson. Duke does a pretty poor job boxing out for defensive rebounds. Part of this is due to Mason and Miles going for every block possible (and hey Mason had 5 last night so that's good) but they seem to have no sense of which shots really are blockable. This has a trade-off, perhaps you alter the shot enough to turn a made shot into a miss, from which you take your chances with the opponent grabbing the Oboard AND converting. If they don't get the Oboard or don't convert it then we come out ahead. Vs. VT we gave up a LOT of Oboards and conversions, some of those conversions came after the 2nd and 3rd Oboards of the same possession.
Another part of it is that sometimes we just don't do a good job of finding someone to box out, which reflects poor fundamentals or just getting caught up in watching the play and not covering responsibilities.
I was really hoping that this was an issue that our bigguns would improve at but I'm not sure that they have. This could be a really big problem vs UNC seeing as how TZ and JH are both solid rebounders and good at converting. If we can keep Marshall out of the lane, therefore preventing the need to rotate and leave open men down low, I think we'll be alright. However, as both the VT and Clemson games showed, it's not something we're doing such a great job at. We denied Clemson's guards access to the lane just enough last night for a solid win, but KM is a much better PG than any Clemson guard.
One thing about the bigguns though, I really like how Mason has calmed down over the course of the year and has learned how to let the game come to him more. I also like how Kelly plays, smart, under control and quite versatile.

[dukebluesincebirth]

I'm fairly discouraged by last night's performance also. I kind of choose to overlook it because I want to remember it as a nice senior night for two great guys. But since this thread is about our post game thoughts, I think there was too many turnovers and not enough offense execution (either due to lack of solid gameplan or failure to execute it). However, I must add that I do think Clemson played well over their heads for much of the game. Why can they never bring their A games to chapel hill? We need to get things together quickly so we can go get this ACC title Saturday! GO DEVILS!

[slower]

No, I would say spoiled would be a better description of how you describe yourself. We have a top 5 team, sitting at 13-2 and 27-3, playing for the regular season ACC title and a number one seed in the NCAAT, a very legitimate FF team and you are complaining that we are only winning by an average margin of 18 points a game.

How do you think that sounds to someone on the outside looking in?

Oh, and btw this is with a mid-season re-tool after the loss of the best player in the nation....

Get a grip and enjoy what we have dude!

I plead guilty as charged, your honor! :)

Sorry.

[sagegrouse]

Jim Sumner says:


Clemson’s record at Duke fell to 4-58. Their last win at Duke came in 1984, Doug McNeely’s senior day. Krzyzewski’s senior day record at Duke is 20-11.

Actually, Clemson beat Duke 75-70 January 4, 1995 -- the last game Krzyzewski coached that season before taking medical leave.

That was the first year I had season tickets (my daughter's senior year), and it was only the second Duke loss I had attended at home. As Sumner correctly points out, the Vic Bubas teams of 1961 through 1964 (my years) lost only one game at the Indoor Stadium, 61-60 to Case's Wolfpack.

Uhhhh... I got to see a few more losses in the 1995 season, almost all of them close games. Didn't we blow a 17-point lead against Virginia?

sagegrouse
'Class of Mullins -- really. He was Class President, succeeding Charlie Rose and the late Sean Flynn'

[Channing]

I'm sure I will get some flack for this, and I am very appreciative that they stayed four years, but I am tired of seeing Smith and Singler continue to operate as black holes. When Smith is on, he is amazing, and they both play there hearts out on D, but those two very rarely pass.

Last night Singler shot 5/12 (~42%) and Nolan was 7/20 (35%). Those are not good numbers, especially since most of Singler's shots were in close. A counted multiple times when Singler tried to do too much with the ball and ended up turning it over, and when Nolan decided he was going to shoot and drove to the lane and threw up a prayer. Almost every single time he penetrates the weak side big is available to Nolan, and I can probably count on my hands the number of times he has dumped it off. There is always a shooter in good position waiting to catch and shoot when Smith or Singler drive.

I don't know if anyone else gets frustrated watching it, but I am convinced that has a lot to do with our slow starts. Hopefully they bring their numbers up in March, because at this pace I believe we would get beat by several teams on a regular basis.

[Klemnop]

However, I must add that I do think Clemson played well over their heads for much of the game. Why can they never bring their A games to chapel hill?

Too funny. Last night's game and our game @UNC earlier this season were near mirror images. Clemson played very tough in both games, rallied multiple times from large deficits and was essentially EVEN heading into the final 5 minutes of both games.

Clemson lost by 10 @ UNC. Lost by 11 @ Duke.

But, sure, if it makes you feel better then Clemson played it's best game of the season by far because they only ever get up to play Duke and pretty much lie down and roll over for everyone else.

In the last five years I'd say Clemson has played MUCH tougher @ UNC than @ Duke. I don't recall any 2OT games for the Tigers @ CIS recently.

[Matches]

Uhhhh... I got to see a few more losses in the 1995 season, almost all of them close games. Didn't we blow a 17-point lead against Virginia?



What is this "1995 season" of which you speak? Everyone knows the 1995 season was cancelled as part of the baseball strike. :confused:

[oldnavy]

I plead guilty as charged, your honor! :)

Sorry.

I apologize, after I posted that and read it, it sounded mean spirited and it wasn't meant to be.

Hey, don't sweat it. It is very VERY easy to do... we all have to guard against it at time including myself. But sometimes it helps to step back and take in the big picture.

I agree, we could and should play better in the beginning of games... it drives me crazy at times, but we are winning and that is the bottom line. We may not win it all this year, but we still have a very special team....

Also, remember EVERYBODY brings their A game against us, and that is a factor we have to include... Clemson played a heck of a game last night. VERY aggressive and VERY physical. We responded well after a few set backs...

[UrinalCake]

And, as the announcers noted, it only took us THREE charges to figure out that we needed to pull up in the lane and take a jump shot instead of trying to plow through defenders for lay-ups.

If you don't know to pull up on the fast break, you haven't watched any film on Duke. We never challenge any shots on the break. Our guys are instructed to stand there and try to take the charge. It works about 50% of the time; the other 50% the guy gets an easy layup plus the foul. I hate it. It's probably the one criticism of Duke that I can't really argue against - not that we always get the charge call, but that we don't even try to defend the shot. If the offensive player stops and pulls up, he'll get an uncontested shot every time, probably with his defender falling backwards, allowing an offensive rebound if needed.

[oldnavy]

I'm sure I will get some flack for this, and I am very appreciative that they stayed four years, but I am tired of seeing Smith and Singler continue to operate as black holes. When Smith is on, he is amazing, and they both play there hearts out on D, but those two very rarely pass.

Last night Singler shot 5/12 (~42%) and Nolan was 7/20 (35%). Those are not good numbers, especially since most of Singler's shots were in close. A counted multiple times when Singler tried to do too much with the ball and ended up turning it over, and when Nolan decided he was going to shoot and drove to the lane and threw up a prayer. Almost every single time he penetrates the weak side big is available to Nolan, and I can probably count on my hands the number of times he has dumped it off. There is always a shooter in good position waiting to catch and shoot when Smith or Singler drive.

I don't know if anyone else gets frustrated watching it, but I am convinced that has a lot to do with our slow starts. Hopefully they bring their numbers up in March, because at this pace I believe we would get beat by several teams on a regular basis.

Nolan is second in the ACC in assists, how can you say he never passes?

[cspan37421]

I'm sure I will get some flack for this, and I am very appreciative that they stayed four years, but I am tired of seeing Smith and Singler continue to operate as black holes. When Smith is on, he is amazing, and they both play there hearts out on D, but those two very rarely pass.

Last night Singler shot 5/12 (~42%) and Nolan was 7/20 (35%). Those are not good numbers, especially since most of Singler's shots were in close. A counted multiple times when Singler tried to do too much with the ball and ended up turning it over, and when Nolan decided he was going to shoot and drove to the lane and threw up a prayer. Almost every single time he penetrates the weak side big is available to Nolan, and I can probably count on my hands the number of times he has dumped it off. There is always a shooter in good position waiting to catch and shoot when Smith or Singler drive.


I think you're right, though you do have to break down shooting into 2s and 3s at least, but in this case, you're still right, shooting has been down. But I think you also have to concede that in the several weeks following Kyrie's injury, those Nolan drives WERE going down. The guy was getting to the rack as if he WERE Kyrie. He's coming back down to earth a bit, and yes, it would be nice to see an adjustment and always finding the open man rather than try and make a highly contested, acrobatic, and/or low-chance-of-success shot. Like that bullet that Mason fed to Kyle when he was under the basket with a guy all over him like a bad suit on Herb Tarlek.

But it would be nice to not see so many missed layups, and it would be really nice if Kyle's jumper came back to the point that you just can't leave him open.

[Channing]

Nolan is second in the ACC in assists, how can you say he never passes?

Nolan has the ball in his hands every possession. I didn't say never pass, I said rarely. Maybe you see something different than I do, but whenever Nolan penetrates he shoots. He never drives and dishes or drives and kicks. If the ball is swinging around the perimeter he passes.

[dukebluesincebirth]

Too funny. Last night's game and our game @UNC earlier this season were near mirror images. Clemson played very tough in both games, rallied multiple times from large deficits and was essentially EVEN heading into the final 5 minutes of both games.

Clemson lost by 10 @ UNC. Lost by 11 @ Duke.

But, sure, if it makes you feel better then Clemson played it's best game of the season by far because they only ever get up to play Duke and pretty much lie down and roll over for everyone else.

In the last five years I'd say Clemson has played MUCH tougher @ UNC than @ Duke. I don't recall any 2OT games for the Tigers @ CIS recently.

I never said Clemson ALWAYS plays better at Duke, just a quick thought I had about clemson losing the last million games they've played in chapel hill (i figured the tar holes hadn't really played amazingly well in all of those, which means clemson usually plays like crap in chapel hill)

[superdave]

I'm frustrated that we had 20 TOs and gave up 21 offensive rebounds to Clemson last night. I'll take the win and move on. But this team really needs to be dialing in and eliminating these mistakes at this point in the season.

[Klemnop]

However, I must add that I do think Clemson played well over their heads for much of the game. Why can they never bring their A games to chapel hill?

I'll try again. Sure you don't want to fight?

KenPom predicted a final score of Duke 73-Clemson 60. Final was 70-59. Statisitically it doesn't appear that Clemson played over their head. It would appear, in fact, that they played almost exactly as anyone would have expected.

Here's a quote from Coach K after last night's game:
"That was an old-time ACC game out there today. That was a heckuva game. Both teams competed at a really high level. The intensity, the defense from both teams was outstanding. It’s tough to score. I’m really impressed with their team. (Clemson) reminded me so much of how well and how hard Purdue played in the Sweet Sixteen against us. They play really hard and well together. Brad’s a heckuva coach, a really, really good coach - they play the game the right way. It was physical, but clean.

We beat a really hungry and good team tonight..."

So here's what I don't get: Why does it have to be that Clemson played over their heads? Why does that make you feel better? Why can't it just be that two good teams played a good game and the better team won?

I've been around this board for a long time. I don't troll for fights. But I am wiling to call out uninformed posts and ask posters to defend statements that don't jibe with facts.

Your mention of Clemson not bringing their "A game" to Chapel Hill was just whiny and pointless in the context of this post-game discussion, so I focused on that first. But I'm more than happy to focus on the rest of your condescension toward Clemson.

Klem

[gofurman]

No not really. He's never made a habit out of it. You must be confusing him with El Deano (I'm not sure why), who always did it, even if it meant starting three scrubs.

actually - I always admired Dean for this and wish Duke did it. Dean basically gave the seniors until the first time out regardless of skill. I admire that

[Saratoga2]

Nolan's comments at the end of game included one where he said that the team did better when it slowed down and looked for good shots, to paraphrase him. I agree that when we tried to go fast or to make the spectacular pass we frequently got into trouble and turned the ball over (20 in all). I think we were the better half court team and when we worked in that way, we began pulling away. Clemson has a very active and aggressive defense and our guys ball handling is only good not great. Maybe we will see more half court against UNC>

[BlueDevilCorvette!]

Yes--although he didn't get in at all during the second half until the very end, if I'm not mistaken, despite those efforts. I felt bad for Andre seeing the replay of Coach K's shouting spree, as it appeared Andre hit his own chest as if to say "my fault, Coach"--which only seemed to make Coach K angrier, as he jumped up and down and yelled even more. I don't know anything about what goes on in practice, etc., and I'm obviously not in a position to second guess Coach K, but from an outside viewpoint it seems that Andre is given much less room for error right now than most of the other players on the team.

I agree. We're going to need Andre at some point and time (like right now) and with the low margin for error, will this make him second guess his every move on the court. I can see it even when he is setting up for a shot well within his range, he'll pull back. What in the world is going on...?

[DU82]

A couple of little things I noticed at the end.

First, Andre handing the ball to Casey, so Casey could have the ball when his last home game ended.

Second, when Kyle came out of the game after making his second free throw, the official under the basket wiped the ball clean for a few seconds before handing it to the Clemson player for the inbound play, even though I'm sure it was perfectly OK. Nice for him to give Kyle a few extra seconds. (See, the refs are human, too! Even though they appear to have a higher percentage of vision problems than us fans in the stands.)

[jimsumner]

Jim Sumner says:



Actually, Clemson beat Duke 75-70 January 4, 1995 -- the last game Krzyzewski coached that season before taking medical leave.

That was the first year I had season tickets (my daughter's senior year), and it was only the second Duke loss I had attended at home. As Sumner correctly points out, the Vic Bubas teams of 1961 through 1964 (my years) lost only one game at the Indoor Stadium, 61-60 to Case's Wolfpack.

Uhhhh... I got to see a few more losses in the 1995 season, almost all of them close games. Didn't we blow a 17-point lead against Virginia?

sagegrouse
'Class of Mullins -- really. He was Class President, succeeding Charlie Rose and the late Sean Flynn'

Yep, you're right. Mea culpa. That was the last game K coached that season. I think I've wiped most of that season from my memory banks.

Thanks for the correction.

[Bob Green]

Thanks for coming on the Duke board trying to instigate a fight, but no thanks.

Klemnop isn't trying to instigate a fight. He is a long time and respected participant at DBR. DBR welcomes participation from fans of our opponents as long as they make an intelligent contribution to the ongoing discussions. Klemnop always does.

[jv001]

Nolan has the ball in his hands every possession. I didn't say never pass, I said rarely. Maybe you see something different than I do, but whenever Nolan penetrates he shoots. He never drives and dishes or drives and kicks. If the ball is swinging around the perimeter he passes.

Nolan did pass for 7 assists, but according to GoDuke.com, he also had 8 turnovers. Kyle had 4. That's 12 of our 20 tos. Throw in Tyler and the number goes up to 15. These 3 players have the ball in their hands for almost every play. With Kyle and Nolan having the ball way more than Tyler. We have to face it, turnovers and giving up offensive rebounds have hurt the last two games. We cannot do that in chapel hell Saturday. Go Duke!

[slower]

I apologize, after I posted that and read it, it sounded mean spirited and it wasn't meant to be.

Hey, don't sweat it. It is very VERY easy to do... we all have to guard against it at time including myself. But sometimes it helps to step back and take in the big picture.

I agree, we could and should play better in the beginning of games... it drives me crazy at times, but we are winning and that is the bottom line. We may not win it all this year, but we still have a very special team....

Also, remember EVERYBODY brings their A game against us, and that is a factor we have to include... Clemson played a heck of a game last night. VERY aggressive and VERY physical. We responded well after a few set backs...

No worries! If I'm going to dish it out, I have to be able to take it. ;)

[BlueDevil2022]

I agree. We're going to need Andre at some point and time (like right now) and with the low margin for error, will this make him second guess his every move on the court. I can see it even when he is setting up for a shot well within his range, he'll pull back. What in the world is going on...?

I could not agree more. As the original poster stated, we are in no position to question Coach K, but it sure seems as though Andre gets screamed at for some things that others do and don't even get taken out of the game for. Is it any wonder why he is hesitant on the court these days? We need him and soon!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[wva_iron_duke]

Klemnop isn't trying to instigate a fight. He is a long time and respected participant at DBR. DBR welcomes participation from fans of our opponents as long as they make an intelligent contribution to the ongoing discussions. Klemnop always does.

Klemnop along with Crimson and Blue are the two best "foreign" contributors in this forun.

[Class of '94]

I could not agree more. As the original poster stated, we are in no position to question Coach K, but it sure seems as though Andre gets screamed at for some things that others do and don't even get taken out of the game for. Is it any wonder why he is hesitant on the court these days? We need him and soon!!!!!!!!!!!!!

IMO, I don't think Andre is getting yelled at for making mistakes; but rather for his poor attitude and body language [at times] on the court and when dealing with coaches giving him feedback. Saying that, I thought Andre's attitude and body language on the court over the last 3 games has been good, at least from watching the games on tv.

[BlueDevil2022]

IMO, I don't think Andre is getting yelled at for making mistakes; but rather for his poor attitude and body language [at times] on the court and when dealing with coaches giving him feedback. Saying that, I thought Andre's attitude and body language on the court over the last 3 games has been good, at least from watching the games on tv.

I understand what you are saying and agree that his body language has been better the last three games. However, could it be that he was/is getting yelled at for things that others don't and that was the cause for his poor body language. I too can only watch on tv, but it seems as though Andre can do nothing right. That will upset some people but that is the way it appears IMHO. Sorry! Also, this might be way off but at least Coach K is still yelling at him. I saw an interview where Coach K told a story about calling home and complaining that Coach Knight was yelling at him too much. His mom told him that at least he was still yelling and when he quit yelling was when he had to worry. I hope that is a sign that great things are expected out of Andre and that Coach is just attempting to get him there. Just would like to see a little more positive feedback for the KID!!!!!

[Kedsy]

Wow was Len Elmore brutal or what last night....typical carowina fan......Duke can't do anything without the refs help!

I don't want to defend Elmore, but he is not in any way a UNC fan. He's a terp, first and foremost, which probably does a lot more to explain his constant terping while announcing the games.


Duke does a pretty poor job boxing out for defensive rebounds.

According to Pomeroy, Mason Plumlee is the 27th best defensive rebounder in the country (which is better than Z's performance last season on the defensive boards). That's really good. So while I agree we gave Clemson too many 2nd chance opportunities last night, I think your statement is not entirely accurate.


I found this game discouraging, especially so since it looks like most of the fans were happy with it. Am I that much of a grouch?

Apparently, yes. Clemson is a good, well-coached team and they played hard. We had some turnover problems and gave up too many offensive rebounds, but other than that I thought we played pretty well. In my mind, a double-digit ACC late-season win is always something to be happy about.


There's NOTHING wrong with us. We have eyes, and we're tired of watching the endless string of pathetic first-half performances. There's a whole laundry list of things that should have, seemingly, been corrected at this late stage in the season. We're frustrated because, at times, this team appears to bear no resemblance to a Top 5 (much less #1) team. And we are legitimately concerned that there's another (too) early tournament exit in the cards this year.

And I'm personally tired of hearing some people claim that this is a "better team" without Kyrie. That's plainly ridiculous. And also, if this IS a historically weak ACC, why are we having problems putting away these lesser teams? Maybe we're just overrated?

My expectations are obviously too high. Every win can't be a 20-30 point blowout, as so many on here are fond of predicting before almost EVERY game. I guess parity truly does exist, for this year, at least.

And no, I'm no less a fan than anybody else. I'm just not an ostrich or a Pollyanna and I vent my frustrations publicly. Apologies.

First of all, I don't think many (if any) people are saying we have a better team without Kyrie than with him. I think some people believe we have a better team this year than last year at this time (me included), and some people have pointed out that our offensive and defensive efficiencies are not much different with and without Kyrie, which is a very different thing than saying the team is better without him (which would be a really difficult statement to defend).

My issue with the negativity I saw on the in-game thread (and after every loss) has been hard for me to articulate clearly. At the outset, I do not want to single you out necessarily, but you're the one who responded, so...

First, it seems to me the NNN (nattering nabobs of negativity) seem to take things for granted when we play well, but when we play below their expectations, even for just a few minutes, they explode with snark. This bothers me, but I guess I can accept it as sort of the message board equivalent of Tourette's Syndrome -- you just can't help yourselves.

What bothers me even more is the NNN making out every mistake by the team into a harbinger of future disaster. If we make a couple mistakes in a row, we have no chance to win a national championship; here comes "another (too) early tournament exit." But here's what the NNN don't get: Even with Kyrie we would still sometimes make a few mistakes in a row or play a less than outstanding half against a good ACC team or, heaven forbid, lose a game a two. Even with him we would not be a shoo in for the national championship. You need too much luck as well as skill to win it all.

I do agree with you that your expectations are too high. The sense of entitlement implicit in lamenting "another" potential early tournament exit when describing the team that is not only the defending national champion but has also had more post-season success than pretty much every other team in the country over the past 10/20/30/take your pick years is outrageous to me. I'm not attempting to denigrate your fanhood, but if you only enjoy the team's performance after they've won a national championship, that's a problem, although I suppose it's more of a problem for you than for me.

Finally, when you say we "bear no resemblance to a Top 5 team," who in the nation does bear such a resemblance, then? Ohio State's last 11 games included them edging Illinois by 5, Northwestern by 1, Minnesota by 13, Michigan by 9 at home, Michigan State by 10 at home, and losing at Wisconsin and by 13 at Purdue. My guess is they weren't stellar every play or even every half during that stretch, which incidentally is probably about the same aggregate performance as Duke's last 11 games. Kansas is probably a little better than that, but their last 11 games include a 4 point game over Colorado, a drubbing at the hands of Kansas State, and 12 or 13 point victories over mediocre Oklahoma and good but not great Texas A&M. I challenge you to show me five teams who are playing better than Duke over the past month.

All right, now that I've said all that, I apologize for getting all self-righteous up on my soapbox. We're all fans of the good guys so we shouldn't fight. I just don't understand all the negativism, that's all.


No, I would say spoiled would be a better description of how you describe yourself. We have a top 5 team, sitting at 13-2 and 27-3, playing for the regular season ACC title and a number one seed in the NCAAT, a very legitimate FF team and you are complaining that we are only winning by an average margin of 18 points a game.

How do you think that sounds to someone on the outside looking in?

Oh, and btw this is with a mid-season re-tool after the loss of the best player in the nation....

Get a grip and enjoy what we have dude!

Thank you for saying this. I completely agree.

[Wander]

According to Pomeroy, Mason Plumlee is the 27th best defensive rebounder in the country (which is better than Z's performance last season on the defensive boards). That's really good. So while I agree we gave Clemson too many 2nd chance opportunities last night, I think your statement is not entirely accurate.


It is worth noting that this number has been trending downwards a little bit, meaning his last few games have not been as strong on the defensive boards. But I don't think boxing out is the problem. I just think he goes for far too many blocks, leaving easy offensive rebounds.

With that said, I thought Mason had one of the best games of his career last night and I voted him MOTM for it. I guess it's not really reflected in the box score, but for the first time possibly ever, I was comfortable when he caught the ball on offense and happy with basically every decision he made on when to dribble, pass, or shoot.

[superdave]

It is worth noting that this number has been trending downwards a little bit, meaning his last few games have not been as strong on the defensive boards. But I don't think boxing out is the problem. I just think he goes for far too many blocks, leaving easy offensive rebounds.

With that said, I thought Mason had one of the best games of his career last night and I voted him MOTM for it. I guess it's not really reflected in the box score, but for the first time possibly ever, I was comfortable when he caught the ball on offense and happy with basically every decision he made on when to dribble, pass, or shoot.

Mason dribbled a lot last night! I like it when he and Kyle push the ball on a defensive rebound a little. I'm sure I'd be saying the opposite if it led to TOs, but I like the pressure it puts on opposing defenses.

[gus]

Didn't we blow a 17-point lead against Virginia?

Ugh. Damn you for bringing up that memory, and even worse, getting it wrong and forcing my pedantic nature to correct you.

23 points. in the 2nd half.

[oldnavy]

Nolan has the ball in his hands every possession. I didn't say never pass, I said rarely. Maybe you see something different than I do, but whenever Nolan penetrates he shoots. He never drives and dishes or drives and kicks. If the ball is swinging around the perimeter he passes.

No, wrong again. There have been multiple assists by Nolan where he penetrated and dumped the ball to Kyle and Mason or kicked the ball out to Seth. Nolan does finish a lot on his drives, but why do you think that is a bad thing?

You now have said that he NEVER drives and dishes, and that is not correct, or even close to being correct.

I have a problem with someone complaining about a guy who is one the verge of doing something that has NEVER been done in the history of the ACC, (lead the league in scoring and assists), shooting too much and not passing enough... what do you want from the kid??

Do you not see the flaw in your argument?

[watzone]

http://bluedevilnation.net/2011/03/senior-day-speeches-josh-and-intros-videos/ Senior speeches here, a bit of the crowd as well. Also Josh Hairston and the players intro's via videos. You can find Coach K's post game video, Nolan Smith and Seth Curry the same. In short, a lot of videos posted from last evening.

[bluesmo]

DR Tina

Mason was just awesome! He was playing his butt off tonight, showing a lot of fire and hustle out there. He had 8 points, 7 rebounds, and 5 blocks. Not to mention he did really well from the line....4-5!!! Some of those passes were really nice, and I hated that he got called for traveling (even if accurate) for that fluke shot. He simply needs to get the ball WAY MORE than he does.

more than anything going into post season Duke needs a big man to go Zoubekian ...looks like Mason is taking that job upon him self ...the timing is great!

[devildeac]

Jim Sumner says:



Actually, Clemson beat Duke 75-70 January 4, 1995 -- the last game Krzyzewski coached that season before taking medical leave.

That was the first year I had season tickets (my daughter's senior year), and it was only the second Duke loss I had attended at home. As Sumner correctly points out, the Vic Bubas teams of 1961 through 1964 (my years) lost only one game at the Indoor Stadium, 61-60 to Case's Wolfpack.

Uhhhh... I got to see a few more losses in the 1995 season, almost all of them close games. Didn't we blow a 17-point lead against Virginia?

sagegrouse
'Class of Mullins -- really. He was Class President, succeeding Charlie Rose and the late Sean Flynn'

My fading memory thinks we blew about a 25 point lead against UVA that year.

[MChambers]

My fading memory thinks we blew about a 25 point lead against UVA that year.

I thought we only blew 17 point leads. Now I've got to worry about 25 point leads?

[devildeac]

Ugh. Damn you for bringing up that memory, and even worse, getting it wrong and forcing my pedantic nature to correct you.

23 points. in the 2nd half.


My fading memory thinks we blew about a 25 point lead against UVA that year.


I thought we only blew 17 point leads. Now I've got to worry about 25 point leads?

I'll go with the 23 point lead instead of 25, not trusting my memory completely on that one. I, like several other posters, have tried to eradicate the last 16-18 games of that season. And, IIRC, K had departed from the sidelines by that time and Pete Gaudet was the HC.

[DukieinSoCal]

A few concerning things as we head into tournament play:

1. Why have we been getting out-rebounded the past couple of games against smaller teams? We're playing a big lineup most of time with Kyle, Ryan, and Mason. We should be dominating the boards.

2. Our 3-point shooting on the road has been horrendous. Does anyone have stats that compare our home/road percentages against national averages? I know every team shoots better at home but it seems like our dropoff is pretty severe. Not sure how this will translate to neutral sites.

3. Turnovers. Nolan has been pretty reliable for the most part but he still has his moments that show why NBA scouts aren't sure if he can handle PG duties at the next level. And Kyle seems to be getting stripped a bit too often as he tries to create off the dribble. We really miss having Scheyer take care of the ball and then Nolan as the secondary ball-handler. With Nolan as the primary guy and Kyle as the secondary, there's a real drop-off. Last year, we rarely turned it over. This year, I'm afraid a sloppy game like last night will do us in.

[gep]

I understand what you are saying and agree that his body language has been better the last three games. However, could it be that he was/is getting yelled at for things that others don't and that was the cause for his poor body language. I too can only watch on tv, but it seems as though Andre can do nothing right. That will upset some people but that is the way it appears IMHO. Sorry! Also, this might be way off but at least Coach K is still yelling at him. I saw an interview where Coach K told a story about calling home and complaining that Coach Knight was yelling at him too much. His mom told him that at least he was still yelling and when he quit yelling was when he had to worry. I hope that is a sign that great things are expected out of Andre and that Coach is just attempting to get him there. Just would like to see a little more positive feedback for the KID!!!!!

This reminds me of Dave McClure. His freshman year, at least, there were a few times I recall seeing Coach K tearing into Dave... one time, Dave did something near the end line, and Coach K walked briskly all the way to the end line and just tore into Dave. I remember feeling very sorry for Dave... I don't know what happened, and why it was such an issue. But that was only one of a few times I remember. I even had thoughts that Dave would transfer out. But as we've seen, Dave grew into a solid player for Duke. I have the same kind of feelings for Andre this year. As others have said, we do not know what goes on outside of game time. Hopefully, this all works out in the end.