Braves 2011

[Olympic Fan]

It's about that time ...

Braves gearing up for a new season. I love the starting rotation and the bullpen looks good, despite Wagner's retirement. I'm excited to see Year Two of the Jason Heyward era. Anxious to see Dan Uggla at second base. Love McCann behind the plate.

But I worry about:

(1) Chipper's health. It's going to be an ongoing issue. Can he play 120-130 games at third and bring anything close to his normal bat? Even the last two injury-riddled seasons, he was around 120 OPS plus. Just three years ago, he won the batting title and the year before that, he led the league in OPS.

(2) Centerfield. I'm not a McLouth fan. I don't trust Jordan Schaefer. Is there another option?

(3) First base. Okay, I know Freddie Freeman is a great prospct, but he looked shaky during his late callup last year. He needs to be productive.

(4) Left Field: Okay, this is fine when Prado is there, but what happens when he has to play third base -- either to rest Chipper or to replace him when he's ailing? Right now, Eric Hinskie/Jerry Mathers (the Beaver? I'd rather have Wally -- he was the athlete ... okay, I know it's Joe Mathers) look like a platoon option. How's that going to work.

A year ago, the Braves earned a wild card bid, despite a series of crippling injuries. The Phillies look loaded in the NL East, but I could see the Braves repeating as wild card contenders.

I"m op-TOE-mistic -- as always in spring!

[JasonEvans]

(2) Centerfield. I'm not a McLouth fan. I don't trust Jordan Schaefer. Is there another option?

McLouth really came on strong late in the season, so I am not convinced he is worthless.

As for Schafer, supposedly he finally figured out in the off-season that swinging up to down is better than swinging down to up. He is hitting line drives instead of striking out and the team is said to be very encouraged.

He should have come to one of my little league practices, we taught these kids to stop dropping their hands and uppercutting on the ball several years ago!

-Jason "I don't worry about Freeman-- he tore it up in the minors and I think he will translate" Evans

[Jarhead]

How can we start a discussion about the Braves without a mention of the new Manager, Fredi Gonzalez, and what he can or will do for the team. I know nothing about him, and I imagine most Braves fans are in the same predicament as I am. I'm going to miss Bobbie.

[Matches]

McOut went 2-2 and generally played very well in yesterday's game. I know it's only ST and doesn't mean much, but last spring it took him about 3 weeks before he managed 2 hits.

[wilson]

I'm pretty optimistic about the Braves this year. The Fillies' rotation is sick, for sure, but their lineup has been pretty clearly downgraded in my opinion, and they're also getting old. Rollins was already a step slow last year, and Chase Utley has more cortisone shots than hits in spring training so far. I also think they'll miss Jayson Werth. Top to bottom, factoring in offense and the bullpen, I really don't think the Braves are that far behind the Fillies, and even the rotation is closer to the Fillies' than most think.
Buster Olney has been complimentary too, suggesting that he may actually pick the Braves to win the division (http://blogs.ajc.com/jeff-schultz-blog/2011/03/01/espns-buster-olney-braves-may-beat-out-phillies-in-east/), and he's not alone in that opinion (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/ted_keith/03/01/braves.spring.training/index.html?xid=cnnbin&hpt=Sbin).
As for team specifics:
-We're very deep at SP, with at least one very solid hurler set to begin the year in Gwinnett.
-I'm very excited to see Dan Uggla in a Braves uniform, and I think he'll add a dimension to the team that has been desperately lacking in recent years.
-I think Freddie Freeman will be fine. He's had a good spring so far, and everyone associated with the team has gushed about his cerebral approach and remarkable maturity.
-Speaking of those attributes, I can't wait to see Jason Heyward again, either. I think he's gonna be a beast this year with a season under his belt. I am wary of those who have him figured for an automatic 30 home runs; I think we're looking at more like 20-25, but I do expect him to more or less match his very solid overall offensive numbers from last year.

Question marks:
-Chipper. I love the man; he is the Braves at this point. But I'll be ecstatic if he plays 120 games. As Olympic Fan pointed out, Prado in LF is totally fine with me (I don't even worry about the defensive adjustment...he's been playing there in winter ball for several years), but when he has to come in and spell Chipper at 3rd, it raises a(nother) question mark in the outfield, which brings me to my next question mark...
-Centerfield. McLouth or Jordan Schafer, one or the other, simply has to step up. McLouth has had a very solid spring so far, drawing some high praise from Chipper (http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20110305&content_id=16835932&vkey=news_atl&c_id=atl) among others, and supposedly Schafer is truly healthy for the first time in two years. However, this has yet to be proven on the regular-season field, as it will have to be before I'll feel comfortable with that position. CF is just too much a production position for it to be the black hole that it was last year.
-Last question mark: Defense. The general consensus is that it's been downgraded (and it wasn't very good last year). I think Uggla has gotten a bad rap to some extent, and as I said above, I'm not all that worried about Martin in left. However, lapses in the field definitely cost the Braves several games last year (well before the Brooks Conrad nightmare), and with such a formidable division foe in Philadelphia, we can't afford that again this season.

[JasonEvans]

Regarding the D, everyone has been raving about Freeman's defense. I know 1B is not one of the crucial defensive positions on the field, but he will be pretty good over there from what I hear.

-Jason "I think the hitting is going to be waaay better than last year" Evans

[kmspeaks]

Regarding the D, everyone has been raving about Freeman's defense. I know 1B is not one of the crucial defensive positions on the field, but he will be pretty good over there from what I hear.

-Jason "I think the hitting is going to be waaay better than last year" Evans

[Sarcasm] Wait defense at 1st base isn't that important?? Because I could have sworn every time I watched a game that Mark Teixeira played in I got to hear at least 50 times about how great a defensive player he is and how many errors he saved the Yankee infielders. [End Sarcasm]
(Side note: I don't have anything against Tex just get tired of announcers beating a dead horse)

I have to agree, the hitting is going to be much improved. While the starting rotation will not have the hype of Philadelphia's I believe it will be more than adequate. Could the season come down to 3 games against the Phillies in September like it almost did last year?

[wilson]

Former Major Leaguer and current Braves single-A manager Luis Salazar was airlifted from the Braves' spring training game (http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20110309&content_id=16875754&vkey=news_atl&c_id=atl)today after being struck square in the face by a Brian McCann line drive, screamed into the dugout.
Published reports indicated that Salazar was immediately knocked unconscious and remained so for anywhere from 15 to 30 minutes, with at least some of that time spent not breathing on his own.
The latest reports indicate that he has improved and is now conscious and breathing normally, but that he has multiple facial fractures, will definitely require surgery, and is not out of the woods yet (much of the worry centers upon potential eye damage).

McCann was said to be so shaken up by the incident that he finished his at-bat in listless fashion and then immediately left the game and traveled to the hospital.

Salazar needs prayers, good energy, whatever. Here's hoping he can bounce back and enjoy the season normally.

[wilson]

In his third surgery since being struck in the face by a Brian McCann line drive, Braves Single-A manager Luis Salazar had his left eye removed (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/spring2011/news/story?id=6223098) this morning. According to team officials, this has been described as a positive step forward by doctors, and Salazar still fully intends to return to work for the organization. He is not expected to need any more surgery, and the current plan is for him to return to camp within a week.
Good to hear that he's progressing, and that the prognosis seems to be upbeat, but jeez...losing an eye is pretty darned serious.
Continued prayers for him.

[kmspeaks]

Two days from now I will be in DC watching the opener for this year's edition of the Braves. I can't wait!!!! :D

I really hope McLouth figures it out and turns in a solid year because the Braves will need him, especially if Prado has to play a lot at 3rd. If not then meet the outfield's version of David Eckstein, Matt Young. http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=457568#sectionType=career&statType=1&season=&gameType='R'

Like every spring, I am eternally hopeful.

[Dev11]

Two days from now I will be in DC watching the opener for this year's edition of the Braves. I can't wait!!!! :D

I'll be there, too. GO NATS.

At least you're not the Mets, so I can't really hate.

[BlueDevilBaby]

I'll be there, too. GO NATS.

At least you're not the Mets, so I can't really hate.

Or Phillies fans. Too bad had to sit through the cold and rain to watch a shutout. We will get those Braves this weekend.

[Jarhead]

I'll be there, too. GO NATS.

At least you're not the Mets, so I can't really hate.


Or Phillies fans. Too bad had to sit through the cold and rain to watch a shutout. We will get those Braves this weekend.

Hope you guys had fun last night. http://crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/icon_tease.gif Not really baseball weather, was it? Chipper had a good night, though, and so did McCann and Heyward while the pitching staff managed to give us 9 shutout innings. Chief Nocka Homa was right there on Heyward's shoulder. Nice start.

[throatybeard]

Interesting sporcle here. Winningest pitcher for each franchise in the decade 2000-09. I got 20 of 30. I don't follow teams other than the Braves and Cardinals very closely. Fin fact, despite leaving the team after 2003, Maddux was still the Braves' win leaded in the 00s with 68 wins. Typical of some franchises that are usually sad sack lately, I don't even recognize the names of the leaders for the Orioles, Pirates, or Rockies. And Trachsel led the Mets? Really?

http://www.sporcle.com/games/caramba/WinLeaders

[JasonEvans]

Bravos win again today. Huddy with 7 strong innings, only one run allowed, and McCann had 4 RBIs, all with 2 outs. In fact, the braves had 7 2-out RBIs. That's real good!

--Jason "now, if they can just take 2-out-of-3 in every other series, they should have a decent season ;) " Evans

[COYS]

Bravos win again today. Huddy with 7 strong innings, only one run allowed, and McCann had 4 RBIs, all with 2 outs. In fact, the braves had 7 2-out RBIs. That's real good!

--Jason "now, if they can just take 2-out-of-3 in every other series, they should have a decent season ;) " Evans

Would love the Braves to start strong this year. It's been a while since we've really had a strong and consistent April/early May. Love that Chipper and McCann are off to fast starts. That really takes the pressure off the rest of the lineup and lets them relax and do their thing. What I'll be watching for the next few weeks:

1) 4th and 5th starters: Can Beachy and Minor make our 4th and 5th spots an asset? Both have shown a lot of promise. When Jurrjens returns, will he look like 2009 Jurrjens or the 2010 Jurrjens who battled injuries and inconsistency all year? If he's back to his usual self, the Braves have the potential to have the second best rotation 1-4 in the NL.

2) McClouth: This one's obvious. If McClouth can hit in the 2-hole, the lineup becomes much more formidable. Heyward can stay as a run producer as probably the best 6th hitter in baseball. McClouth and Prado can set the table for Chipper, hopefully leading to a lot of runs in the 1st inning which will put extra pressure on opposing starters. Also, as the only legitimate stolen base threat on the team, we may even be able to manufacture runs if we need them with straight steals or hit and runs with low strikeout guys like Chipper and McCann hitting behind him.

3) Infield defense: So far, so good except for an error by Hanson. With Lowe, Jurrjens, and Hudson relying on sinkers to produce groundball outs, we've gotta be tight on the defensive end.

4) Health. We made the playoffs last year despite eye issues with McCann, injury issues with Chipper, thumb issues with Heyward, and a thigh injury that ended Prado's breakout season. Our bench really was an asset, especially on the offensive end, as Hinski and Conrad helped power the offense when called upon. Hopefully this year our bench will have make a similarly strong contribution but we'll be able to rely on the four aforementioned players for more this year. I think it's naive to think Chipper will play too much more than 120-130 games even if he's more or less healthy, but the offense can survive an absence by Chipper much better if McCann, Prado, Heyward (and now Uggla) are all healthy and playing consistently.

[Duvall]

--Jason "now, if they can just take 2-out-of-3 in every other series, they should have a decent season ;) " Evans

That should be enough for the Wild Card. Not sure it would enough for the division, though.

[Olympic Fan]

That should be enough for the Wild Card. Not sure it would enough for the division, though.

You are kidding, right?

The Braves are currently playing .667 baseball. No National League team has matched that pace since the 1975 Cincinnati Reds "Big Red Machine". And no National League team has bettered it since the 1942 St. Louis Cardinals.

The Phillies have never won even 63 percent of their games -- NEVER.

Seriously, I doubt the Braves maintain that pace (any more than I think the Phillies will remain unbeaten), but winning 2-of-3 all season as Jason said would almost unquestionably be good enough.

I'd take .667 right now and not play the rest of the season.

[JasonEvans]

You are kidding, right?

The Braves are currently playing .667 baseball. No National League team has matched that pace since the 1975 Cincinnati Reds "Big Red Machine". And no National League team has bettered it since the 1942 St. Louis Cardinals.

The Phillies have never won even 63 percent of their games -- NEVER.

Seriously, I doubt the Braves maintain that pace (any more than I think the Phillies will remain unbeaten), but winning 2-of-3 all season as Jason said would almost unquestionably be good enough.

I'd take .667 right now and not play the rest of the season.

Yup, I was well aware of the parity in baseball (moreso than in any other sport) that makes a team that can even win 60% of its games a very potent team and a lock to make the postseason. I was kidding about winning 2-out-of-3. No way do I expect the Braves to maintain that pace over the course of the season. That would come out to a 108 win season.

--Jason "I'll take 100 wins and be quite happy with it ;) " Evans

[Olympic Fan]

Braves up to .750 (3 of 4) after winning Monday afternoon in Milwaukee.

A strong six innings by Beachy (four hits, one run), solo home runs by Prado and Uggla in the seventh, then solid relief for a 2-1 win.

The best part of the .750 start is that it's all on the road.

[COYS]

The best part of the .750 start is that it's all on the road.

Especially since they've been winning on the road in cold weather and despite the odd scheduling today that required the team to make an early AM flight to Milwaukee for an afternoon start.

[JasonEvans]

...then solid relief...

Craig Kimbrell is a machine. Mark my words, he is going to be one of the top few relievers in baseball this season.

So far this season, he has faced 6 batters. 5 of them went back to the dugout with a strikeout. The other one popped out.

In his regular season career, Kimbrell has faced 23 total batters in the 8th or 9th inning of a game where one team leads by one or the game is tied. In those situations, he has given up 3 walks and zero hits. He has recorded 20 outs, 15 of them by strikeout.

Think about that -- close and late, batters are 0-for-20 with 15 ks. That otherworldly.

Want more? His career ERA is 0.40. Major league batters are hitting a robust .115 against him. Right-handers are especially impotent, batting .073 (3-for-41) with 25 Ks.

Of course, those numbers are inflated by a couple tough outings when he first arrived in the bigs last summer. He got sent down to the minors for a bit before getting his permanent Majors callup in August. Since that callup he has thrown 18 innings of baseball and has 37 strikeouts, 2 per inning. Batters are hitting .083 against him in that time (5-for-60).

I know he is a youngster and I know I am putting high expectations on him, but I am telling you, Kimbrell is going to be dominant this season and for a long, long time.

--Jason "wish I could take credit for the above stats, but they come from this AJC blog (http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-braves-blog/2011/04/05/craig-kimbrel-the-human-strikeout-machine/) post" Evans

[devildeac]

Well, after last night's loss, the Braves are now at .600 and out of the playoff picture, trailing both the Mutts and the Phils:rolleyes:.

[Duvall]

When will the Braves score their next run? I've got a good feeling about Thursday.

[Matches]

This business of Heyward hitting 6th is for the birds. That's way too low in the order to hit arguably the best hitter on the team, and having a guy who walks a ton hitting before the 7-8 hitters is silly.

The only legitimate excuse I've seen for this is the notion that Uggla needs "protection". Ignoring the fact that Heyward has NO protection batting 6th, why not swap Uggla and McCann?

Prado LF
Heyward RF
Chipper 3B
Uggla 2B
McCann C
Gonzalez SS
McLouth CF
Freeman 1B

Bottom line is *someone* has to hit in front of A-Gon. Heyward is losing an AB in many games because he's so low in the order.

[Olympic Fan]

This business of Heyward hitting 6th is for the birds. That's way too low in the order to hit arguably the best hitter on the team, and having a guy who walks a ton hitting before the 7-8 hitters is silly.

The only legitimate excuse I've seen for this is the notion that Uggla needs "protection". Ignoring the fact that Heyward has NO protection batting 6th, why not swap Uggla and McCann?

Prado LF
Heyward RF
Chipper 3B
Uggla 2B
McCann C
Gonzalez SS
McLouth CF
Freeman 1B

Bottom line is *someone* has to hit in front of A-Gon. Heyward is losing an AB in many games because he's so low in the order.

I totally agree with you about moving Heywood. He's to valuable to bat sixth. At the current stage in his career -- he has just moderate power but is an on-base machine -- he's the perfet guy to bat second.

I don't like moving McCann down. He's perfect at No. 4. Uggla at No. 5 gives him protection ... and McCann is better than Uggla at the plate, so give him the protection.

That leaves Uggla uncovered, but as you say, someone has to bat in front of A-Gon. My solution is to platoon the Number Six hitters -- bat Freeman sixth against righhanders and A-Gon sixth against lefties (I know that Freeman has had a lot of success against lefties early, but I think that's a small sample size ... I believe he'll finish with normal platoon splits).

Definitely a discouraging stretch for the Braves. Are they repeating the pattern they had through most of last year where they actually play better on the road than at home?

[Duvall]

Definitely a discouraging stretch for the Braves. Are they repeating the pattern they had through most of last year where they actually play better on the road than at home?

Not really. They just aren't hitting - the Braves have the lowest OBP in the league thus far.

[throatybeard]

The SABR guys have proven that "protection" basically doesn't exist. All you're doing by batting a guy a slot lower is costing him a certain number of plate appearances a year. It's a multiple of 18, I forget whether it's 18 or 36, on average. I'd look this up, but I'm lazy.

[Olympic Fan]

The SABR guys have proven that "protection" basically doesn't exist. All you're doing by batting a guy a slot lower is costing him a certain number of plate appearances a year. It's a multiple of 18, I forget whether it's 18 or 36, on average. I'd look this up, but I'm lazy.

The Fox guys doing today's Braves-Mets game went into a big deal about the batting order debate and asserted (1) that batting order doesn't impact runs scored; (2) Gonzales bats Heyward 6th to give Uggla (batting 192) protection; (3) that if batting him higher in the order would give Heyward more at-bats, then why does St. Louis bat Pujols first to get him more at bats?

Actually, there was a professor back in the 1960s -- the first sabremetician -- who calculated that players should bat in descending order of productivity for precisely that reason -- that batting order doesn't matter and that batting your best player early gives him more at bats over the long run.

However, I'm pretty sure Bill James did some research on the subject and concluded that batting order DOES matter. I'll see if I can find his article ... I remember him talking about the way the Yankees messed up their batting order in the early 1960s and cost themselves a ton of runs. Everybody was hung up on the debate as to whether Mantle or Maris should bat 3rd/4th and ignored the fact that Richardson and Kubek -- two guys who rarely got on base -- shouldn't have been batting 1st and second.

PS Just found this article that claims that batting orders DO matter, but it also concludes that traditional models (high on base guys, the best hitters 3-4-5) seem to be the most productive:
http://www.retrosheet.org/Research/RuaneT/lineup_art.htm

[COYS]

Nothing like beating up on the Mets to get the team a bit of momentum. We finally score for Lowe plus Jurrjens comes back to torment the Mets yet again. Only bad news is that Heyward is still batting 6th. Oh well. Maybe Freeman's homer will start a hot streak for the rookie that basically forces Gonzales to drop McClouth in the order so that Heyward (or even Chipper, if we're getting really creative) moves up to the 2 spot leaving a lefty/righty platoon at 6/7 with Freeman and Gonzales (good call, Olympic Fan, as always!).

Anyway, Bravos have a good chance at a sweep as the Mets are having to call up a rookie from Double A to fill in for their injury depleted roster. I'm hoping the bats warm up with the weather and Hanson adds to the momentum he gained during his last outing.

[kmspeaks]

Any day they Braves beat the Mets is a good day and it happened twice yesterday!! :D

I tuned into the Fox broadcast a little late. Can somebody fill me in on why the Mets were so upset they had to play a double header Saturday and even went so far as to call the union to see if there were anyway it could be avoided. The announcers were saying something about a strain on the pitching staff and having to call guys up but why was it any more stressful on the NY staff then on Atlanta's? When did the Mets want to make up the game?

[COYS]

Any day they Braves beat the Mets is a good day and it happened twice yesterday!! :D

I tuned into the Fox broadcast a little late. Can somebody fill me in on why the Mets were so upset they had to play a double header Saturday and even went so far as to call the union to see if there were anyway it could be avoided. The announcers were saying something about a strain on the pitching staff and having to call guys up but why was it any more stressful on the NY staff then on Atlanta's? When did the Mets want to make up the game?

The Mets played a doubleheader on Thursday, as well, if I'm not mistaken. To be honest, though, I'm not really sure what the big deal was considering Friday was effectively an off day. I would have been more understanding if Friday's game had started and both teams had to burn their starters for a few innings before the game was canceled.

[rasputin]

The Fox guys doing today's Braves-Mets game went into a big deal about the batting order debate and asserted (1) that batting order doesn't impact runs scored; (2) Gonzales bats Heyward 6th to give Uggla (batting 192) protection; (3) that if batting him higher in the order would give Heyward more at-bats, then why does St. Louis bat Pujols first to get him more at bats?

Actually, there was a professor back in the 1960s -- the first sabremetician -- who calculated that players should bat in descending order of productivity for precisely that reason -- that batting order doesn't matter and that batting your best player early gives him more at bats over the long run.

However, I'm pretty sure Bill James did some research on the subject and concluded that batting order DOES matter. I'll see if I can find his article ... I remember him talking about the way the Yankees messed up their batting order in the early 1960s and cost themselves a ton of runs. Everybody was hung up on the debate as to whether Mantle or Maris should bat 3rd/4th and ignored the fact that Richardson and Kubek -- two guys who rarely got on base -- shouldn't have been batting 1st and second.

PS Just found this article that claims that batting orders DO matter, but it also concludes that traditional models (high on base guys, the best hitters 3-4-5) seem to be the most productive:
http://www.retrosheet.org/Research/RuaneT/lineup_art.htm

Of course, the Yankees in the early '60's didn't really have anybody who fits the classic leadoff hitter mold (high OBP, with some speed). Yes, Mantle had those attributes, but his tremendous power makes him a 3 or 4 man. Elston Howard had a few years with a high OBP (and others not so much), but he was molasses-in-January slow. And you can't lead off with Hector Lopez, or Clete Boyer, or Tom Tresh, or the Moose.

[Duvall]

Heyward now batting second for the second-straight game (http://twitter.com/ajcbraves/status/60088391357825024).

[Duvall]

Braves losing late in Los Angeles, but at least Vin Scully is on the call so it isn't a total loss.

[JohnGalt]

Braves losing late in Los Angeles, but at least Vin Scully is on the call so it isn't a total loss.

The Braves offensive struggles continue. Credit Lilly for 7+ scoreless with 6Ks, all the while barely cracking the mid 80s with his fastball.

Ughh...so much for the excitement. Heyward batting 2nd, Chipper back in, and Hudson on the mound had the makings for a big win.

No dice, I suppose.

[Matches]

Actually, there was a professor back in the 1960s -- the first sabremetician -- who calculated that players should bat in descending order of productivity for precisely that reason -- that batting order doesn't matter and that batting your best player early gives him more at bats over the long run.

However, I'm pretty sure Bill James did some research on the subject and concluded that batting order DOES matter. I'll see if I can find his article ... I remember him talking about the way the Yankees messed up their batting order in the early 1960s and cost themselves a ton of runs. Everybody was hung up on the debate as to whether Mantle or Maris should bat 3rd/4th and ignored the fact that Richardson and Kubek -- two guys who rarely got on base -- shouldn't have been batting 1st and second.


It makes sense to have the guys who get on base the most often hitting in front of the guys who are most adept at driving in runs. Heyward gets on base at a higher rate than most of the other Braves hitters, so ideally he's on base when Chipper, McCann and Uggla are hitting, since they're the guys most likely to be able to drive him in.

Pujols is similar to Chipper in that he gets on base a ton AND is the best guy in the lineup to drive in runs. Usually guys like that end up in the middle of the order. You could make an argument for hitting them 1st but doing so ensures that about 1/4th of their HRs will be hit leading off games (and thus with no one on base).

Protection is real - your 8th place hitter will get way fewer pitches to hit because the opposition knows the pitcher is next, for example. But you can't let protection dictate your whole lineup.

[COYS]

Braves back on track after a cathartic sweep in SanFran. Heyward has snapped out of his slump in a big way . . . and against a trifecta of serious pitching talent. His talent is so great that I think he's gonna get on a little hot streak here and look like an MVP caliber player for a few weeks (and hopefully the rest of the year). **knocks on wood to avoid jinx** Beachy has been great and is pitching like the best 5th starter in baseball right now as well. If April Uggla transforms into midseason Uggla in the coming days, the lineup will start scoring more runs and take some of the pressure off the pitchers.

I'm a little concerned about the middle relief. Kimbrel and Venters are quite the combo at the back end, but we've had a few middle relief breakdowns. Plus, we've got a few Venters injury concerns, too. But he looked good during the Giants series so hopefully he's in the clear.

Let's take care of business against the slumping Pads and then come back to ATL for a much needed homestand.

[Matches]

I'm a little concerned about the middle relief. Kimbrel and Venters are quite the combo at the back end, but we've had a few middle relief breakdowns. Plus, we've got a few Venters injury concerns, too. But he looked good during the Giants series so hopefully he's in the clear.



Venters is fine. I agree some of our current middle relievers are weak but if they don't perform as the season progresses, we've got options at AAA. Marek in particular is killing it down there and is ready for the bigs. Also that's a relatively easy need to address at the trade deadline.

Very nice to see McOut get the game-winning hit yesterday (off Brian Wilson no less).

[COYS]

Venters is fine. I agree some of our current middle relievers are weak but if they don't perform as the season progresses, we've got options at AAA. Marek in particular is killing it down there and is ready for the bigs. Also that's a relatively easy need to address at the trade deadline.

Very nice to see McOut get the game-winning hit yesterday (off Brian Wilson no less).

Yeah, McClouth has been a very solid 8-hole hitter. Also nice to see Ross hit with some serious power while giving McCann a day off. Still awaiting the Uggla show to arrive, but it's still April so we've probably got another four or five days ;).

Big outing from Jurrjens last night, getting the complete game. Considering how many hits he gave up, getting through nine innings with only 2 runs on 114 pitches was quite an accomplishment and gave our bullpen some much needed rest. We've definitely got the pitching matchup edge today with Hanson on the mound. Here's hoping we can take back-to-back series and come back home ready to vault above .500.

[DUKIECB]

Here's hoping we can take back-to-back series and come back home ready to vault above .500.

The Bravos took care of the first part of that wish last night. All in all, going 6-4 on a 10 game west coast trip is pretty good. They have won 5 out of 6 now and the bats seem to be a little more lively the past few days.

Here's hoping the second half of that wish comes true starting tomorrow.

[Matches]

I'm still floored - a day later - that Chipper hit a triple. Must've been like watching Sid Bream try to run the bases...

[JasonEvans]

I'm still floored - a day later - that Chipper hit a triple. Must've been like watching Sid Bream try to run the bases...


Ball hit to deep CF, slightly toward RF
The CFer dives and hits the wall, he's down and shaken up
The RFer must come a long way to get to the ball, which is just lying on the ground in CF
Chipper trots into 3B


Here is video of it - http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=14208891

-Jason "Chipper is tied for 2nd in the NL in RBIs... stunning" Evans

[DBFAN]

I'm still floored - a day later - that Chipper hit a triple. Must've been like watching Sid Bream try to run the bases...

Or Brian Mcann...LOL

[devildeac]

I'm still floored - a day later - that Chipper hit a triple. Must've been like watching Sid Bream try to run the bases...

Make fun of Slow Sid all you want but I will NEVER, EVER forget that slide into home...:cool:

[JasonEvans]

Make fun of Slow Sid all you want but I will NEVER, EVER forget that slide into home...:cool:

Cue it in to the 2:00 mark...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5I-MAUn4mA

--Jason "possibly my favorite sports moment outside of Laettner's shot" Evans

[devildeac]

Cue it in to the 2:00 mark...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5I-MAUn4mA

--Jason "possibly my favorite sports moment outside of Laettner's shot" Evans

And it never gets old either;).

I could also watch Heyward's miss a few hundred times, too:D.

[JasonEvans]

I could also watch Heyward's miss a few hundred times, too:D.

I hear ya, but I prefer my own team's successful plays to win versus the opponent coming up a shade short.

-Jason "still, I would not turn down an opportunity to watch any of the above many, many times" Evans

[Olympic Fan]

--Jason "possibly my favorite sports moment outside of Laettner's shot" Evans

And it came almost exactly six months after Christian's shot ... both moments in 1992.

And BTW, when I think of Barry Bonds, I don't think about the 'roids or his incredible batting numbers (the second best of all time) ... I think of that weak-#$@ throw from left field. Every time some Bonds defender tries to tell me what a great defender he was in left, I answer with two words: Sid Bream.

[Matches]

And it came almost exactly six months after Christian's shot ... both moments in 1992.

And BTW, when I think of Barry Bonds, I don't think about the 'roids or his incredible batting numbers (the second best of all time) ... I think of that weak-#$@ throw from left field. Every time some Bonds defender tries to tell me what a great defender he was in left, I answer with two words: Sid Bream.

ESPN did a show on that game recently and interviewed Andy Van Slyke. When Cabrera came to bat, Van Slyke motioned over to Bonds to move in and play more shallow. Bonds shot him the bird and stayed where he was. The rest is history.

[COYS]

Braves with some off-field trouble . . . which is rare for the organization. In addition to McDowell's apparent anti-gay tirade (http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-braves-blog/2011/04/28/braves-continue-to-investigate-mcdowell-allegations/) which, assuming everything is as it appears to be, will cost him at least a lengthy suspension and likely his job, Derek Lowe was apparently arrested on a DUI charge last night (http://www.ajc.com/sports/atlanta-braves/braves-pitcher-derek-lowe-929396.html).

[Matches]

Lowe allegedly was racing on a relatively busy street at 10 pm last night while under the influence of alcohol. Just a monumentally stupid thing to do, and it's fortunate that no one was hurt or killed.

[Channing]

Cue it in to the 2:00 mark...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5I-MAUn4mA

--Jason "possibly my favorite sports moment outside of Laettner's shot" Evans

I was there as a 10 yr old ... I remember every detail like it was yesterday.

[COYS]

Lowe allegedly was racing on a relatively busy street at 10 pm last night while under the influence of alcohol. Just a monumentally stupid thing to do, and it's fortunate that no one was hurt or killed.

For a 37 year old vet to do that is, quite honestly, pretty shocking. I don't see how he doesn't avoid a suspension (In my mind, he SHOULD be suspended). I hope the Braves handle it internally, of course, but I don't think there is anyway he doesn't miss a few starts.

[Olympic Fan]

Anybody else see the end of Friday night's Braves-Cardinal game?

Nothing to brag about for the Braves. Up 3-2, Kimbrel blew the save in the top of the 9th and the Cards took a 5-3 lead off Gearrin in the top of the 11th.

But here's where it gets interesting. Uggla leads off the the bottom of the 11th with a walk. Freeman, batting next, runs the count to 3-2. Motte throws a pitch that appears to be both low and away. Freeman throws his bat away and starts running to first. Uggla begins his trot to second.

Freeman has made at least two strides toward first when homeplate ump Tim McClelland makes a VERY delayed strike call. Now, I could (and will) argue the call -- the ball was low and outside. Still, a missed strike call, no matter how crucial, is nothing to get excited about. It happens all the time.

What did incense me was the delayed call. Because McClelland took so much time to make the call, the Cardinal catcher was able to whip the ball to first and almost get Uggla, who had naturally started to for second. He slid back safely, but it was close.

I know I'm just frustrated because the Braves blew the game, but I still have a problem with McClelland's mechanics. His slow call could have really impacted the game,

Anybody else see that?

[devildeac]

Anybody else see the end of Friday night's Braves-Cardinal game?

Nothing to brag about for the Braves. Up 3-2, Kimbrel blew the save in the top of the 9th and the Cards took a 5-3 lead off Gearrin in the top of the 11th.

But here's where it gets interesting. Uggla leads off the the bottom of the 11th with a walk. Freeman, batting next, runs the count to 3-2. Motte throws a pitch that appears to be both low and away. Freeman throws his bat away and starts running to first. Uggla begins his trot to second.

Freeman has made at least two strides toward first when homeplate ump Tim McClelland makes a VERY delayed strike call. Now, I could (and will) argue the call -- the ball was low and outside. Still, a missed strike call, no matter how crucial, is nothing to get excited about. It happens all the time.

What did incense me was the delayed call. Because McClelland took so much time to make the call, the Cardinal catcher was able to whip the ball to first and almost get Uggla, who had naturally started to for second. He slid back safely, but it was close.

I know I'm just frustrated because the Braves blew the game, but I still have a problem with McClelland's mechanics. His slow call could have really impacted the game,

Anybody else see that?

I didn't see it but I'd be pretty steamed about it from reading your account. :mad:

[Duvall]

Can't win with no hitting, a mediocre manager and an imploding bullpen. Once the injuries start this season will officially become a grave disappointment.

[COYS]

Can't win with no hitting, a mediocre manager and an imploding bullpen. Once the injuries start this season will officially become a grave disappointment.

I think this is a little premature. Kimbrel is still young. Some bumps along the way are natural. He can certainly be unhittable at times. The rest of the bullpen outside of middle relief is really strong. Plus, we've got depth in the minors here, as well. As for the lineup, if Uggla can get going, I think scoring runs won't be a problem. Mediocre manager . . . well, that may or may not prove to be true. There have definitely been some questionable decisions so far, but we'll see how the team responds to him during the grind in the summer months. Here's hoping that midseason Uggla wakes up tomorrow on May 1st.

[COYS]

Nice to get two wins on the same day. Huddy was spectacular and came pretty close to following up Loriano with a no-no for himself. Also, McOut is going to need a new nickname if he's able to keep this up. He's been very productive at the bottom of the order. I'm not convinced the Braves have completely turned a corner (when Heyward and Uggla heat up, I'll be much happier). However, the Braves are tied for tops in the NL in run differential (+37, same as the Phillies) and actually lead the NL East in runs scored. The Braves definitely have the statistical profile of a team that is better than its record. You have to think the Marlins will come back down to earth a little, even if it does seem they are a formidable team. On the other hand, the NL seems to be pretty mediocre outside of Philadelphia, who has some lineup deficiencies despite the stellar pitching staff. No reason the Braves can't put themselves in a good position within the division and wild card with a few weeks of consistent ball.

[Duvall]

Atlanta super-prospect Julio Teheran to make his major league debut tomorrow (http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-braves-blog/2011/05/06/teheran-to-debut-for-braves-vs-phillies-saturday/?cxntfid=blogs_atlanta_braves_blog&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter).

Against the Phillies in their absurd ballpark, so no pressure.

[Jarhead]

Atlanta super-prospect Julio Teheran to make his major league debut tomorrow (http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-braves-blog/2011/05/06/teheran-to-debut-for-braves-vs-phillies-saturday/?cxntfid=blogs_atlanta_braves_blog&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter).
Against the Phillies in their absurd ballpark, so no pressure.

The absurd ball park allowed the Braves to spread out 5 RBIs over 5 guys, and get 12 hits while the pitching was allowing only 2 hits shutting out the Phillies. A fine showing on the road while the manager is making moves to stabilize the pitching staff. The braves are 8 and 2 over the last 10 games. That makes me feel pretty good right now.

[COYS]

The absurd ball park allowed the Braves to spread out 5 RBIs over 5 guys, and get 12 hits while the pitching was allowing only 2 hits shutting out the Phillies. A fine showing on the road while the manager is making moves to stabilize the pitching staff. The braves are 8 and 2 over the last 10 games. That makes me feel pretty good right now.

Also of note, ATL's starters ERA thus far: 2.97. Phiadelphia's starter's ERA: 3.11. I'm not saying our pitchers are better than theirs, but I AM saying that we can hang with them toe to toe as long as we get some timely hitting. The Atlanta staff really hasn't gotten much national respect. I understand that Loriano's no-hitter was newsworthy, to be sure. But he walked 8 guys! Hardly anyone mentioned Tim Hudson's masterful 1 hitter, which was a better performance than Loriano's no-no, over all. Then after the games on Baseball Tonight last night, Moulder and Garciaparra are debating the best pitching performances of the night and Lowe + our relievers' 2-hitter doesn't even get a mention. I can actually understand the argument that Cliff Lee had a better game with the 16 K's. However, the performance of the Braves' staff was excellent and at least deserved a mention in the conversation. Plus, the Braves got the W!

[Jarhead]

Even with 16 Ks, how can anyone consider a game in which Lee allowed 12 hits and 5 runs a well played game? The Phillie field defense only participated in 11 of the put-outs. with only 2 hits and 11 put-outs those guys hardly broke a sweat except for chasing balls around the field. Good game for the Braves, a game in which the most of the hits and all of the runs were produced by the top half of the batting order. That's a formula for success.

[Jarhead]

Oooops! Well, we can't win them all.

[wilson]

The Braves are really rounding into shape, displaying the kind of overall balance they looked to have on paper before the season started. They've really been fun to watch the last couple of weeks. This weekend's wins in Philadelphia were, in my opinion, the two biggest of the season so far.

[devildeac]

Oooops! Well, we can't win them all.

Yea, but 2 outta 3 on the road against the Phils is pretty impressive. Hope they got a couple soft pretzels and cheese steaks to celebrate:D.

[Matches]

Yea, but 2 outta 3 on the road against the Phils is pretty impressive. Hope they got a couple soft pretzels and cheese steaks to celebrate:D.

Definitely. Very nice weekend - and we get the Phils again in Atlanta shortly. Get 2 of those 3, and it's a horserace again.

[wilson]

Definitely. Very nice weekend - and we get the Phils again in Atlanta shortly. Get 2 of those 3, and it's a horserace again.We'll certainly have a good shot at 2 of 3 against the Fillies at Turner Field next weekend.
The probable pitchers:
FRI: Lowe-Worley
SAT: Jurrjens-Hamels
SUN: Hudson-Blanton

[BlueDevilBaby]

And now only 2 of 3 against my Nats whom I thought were certainly going to blow that one last night. Nats' wins agains Hudson are few and fart between.

[JasonEvans]

Nats' wins agains Hudson are few and fart between.

Niiiice typo!

-Jason

[BlueDevilBaby]

Ooops! I should stop posting while at work.

[kmspeaks]

Typical Braves. Show up big and take 2 of 3 from the Phillies. Then turn around and drop 2 straight to the Nats. :(

(Pardon the negativity but I also happen to be a Redskins and a Capitals fan. Optimism is a hard concept lol.)

[Jarhead]

Typical Braves. Show up big and take 2 of 3 from the Phillies. Then turn around and drop 2 straight to the Nats. :(

(Pardon the negativity but I also happen to be a Redskins and a Capitals fan. Optimism is a hard concept lol.)
They sure are hard to figure out. After losing twice at home to the Nats, they close out that series with a win in extra innings. Somehow they have been playing .700 ball for a few weeks now, but they cannot gain on the Phillies. How frustating is that?

[Olympic Fan]

They sure are hard to figure out. After losing twice at home to the Nats, they close out that series with a win in extra innings. Somehow they have been playing .700 ball for a few weeks now, but they cannot gain on the Phillies. How frustating is that?

It's not that bad. After losing to St. Louis on April 30, the Braves were 6.0 games behind the Phillies (and 5th in the division). After last night's come-from-behind win, the Braves are 4.5 games back and third in the division.

That's 1.5 games in less than two weeks. With three games this weekend in Atlanta, the Braves have a chance to get a little closer (I'm realistically hoping for 2 of 3 to get to 3,5 games back ... a sweep would be sweet).

[wilson]

With three games this weekend in Atlanta, the Braves have a chance to get a little closer (I'm realistically hoping for 2 of 3 to get to 3,5 games back ... a sweep would be sweet).These are my thoughts exactly. I'll be there on Saturday and Sunday (and Monday and Tuesday).
True story: During last week's doubleheader vs. the Brewers, I was at Turner Field as part of a decidedly sparse crowd (no way it was more than 10,000 or so). I have gained something of a reputation among my friends and family for being able to make myself heard on TV and radio when the crowd is that small. I did just that during Game 1, and Tom Glavine mentioned my absurdly loud yelling on air while doing color commentary.
One of the greatest accomplishments of my life.

[Duvall]

Dan Uggla certainly looks like $62 million well spent.

[devildeac]

Dan Uggla certainly looks like $62 million well spent.

Yea, well at least before last night's non-slaught performance, he was above the Mendoza line:rolleyes:.

Sheesh. The Phils made 2 errors and their pitchers walked 4. The Braves made no errors and only walked 1. Now they gotta win today and Sunday to gain any ground.

[Olympic Fan]

Thanks to a great performance by Jurrijens Saturday afternoon, the Braves evened up the series (and returned to 4.5 games back) with a 5-3 win.

Sunday is the big one -- win and we're on their heels (having taken 4 of 6 in eight days head-to-head). Lose and the Phils are up 5.5 and will have split the matchup 3-3.

[wilson]

Another great Braves win today. This was my favorite game of the season so far. The atmosphere was good at Turner Field, and it was just a great ballgame. It was an old-school matchup where the two pitchers were playing at such a high level that you just knew every pitch mattered...the kind of game that's a lot of fun to watch even if you don't care who wins.
Beating Halladay is impressive under any circumstances. I've now seen him pitch at Turner Field three times, and the Braves have won two of those games. The first was when he was still with the Blue Jays, and he got a no-decision, while being matched pitch-for-pitch by Kenshin Kawakami (no, seriously). The second was a waxing at the hands of the Fillies during this season's opening home series, and the third was today.
It was also a very encouraging game for Dan Uggla today. He scored all three of the Braves' runs and had another couple of very fine defensive plays...they said he couldn't field, but I'm still sort of wondering what they were talking about. His range isn't world-beating, but he can pick it. I think today was his finest all-around game in a Braves uniform. Here's hoping he's about to bust out. If he can do that against Roy Halladay, he can do it against anyone.

[Channing]

as bad as the braves' offense has been at times this year, it is interesting to note they still have the largest +/- in the NL, and are tied with Cleveland for the largest +/- in baseball. That has to bode well for the long term prospects for this team.

[wilson]

Another win for the good guys, and another really fun night at Turner Field.
Only 2.5 games back now...it's a race!

[wilson]

WOW, what a finish. I enjoyed this one from lovely leftfield with the one and only, world-famous EarlJam.
Now if the Cards will take care of business against the Fillies tonight, the race will be getting really tight.

[JasonEvans]

WOW, what a finish. I enjoyed this one from lovely leftfield with the one and only, world-famous EarlJam.
Now if the Cards will take care of business against the Fillies tonight, the race will be getting really tight.

Great game to attend! Homerun in the 9th (2 outs, 2 strikes) to tie it and then a dinger by the same player in the 11th to win it. This might be the greatest day of Brian McCann's career.

-Jason "Lowe was light's out!" Evans

[wilson]

Great game to attend!

-Jason "Lowe was light's out!" EvansIndeed, it was. In fact, this was the fourth straight day I've been at Turner Field, so any thanks y'all might wish to issue for the current win streak may be directed to me.:p

[Jarhead]

Indeed, it was. In fact, this was the fourth straight day I've been at Turner Field, so any thanks y'all might wish to issue for the current win streak may be directed to me.:p
Maybe someone should get up a collection to get you some season tickets. How much better does it get than a double play in the top of the 11th, and McCann's walk off home run in the bottom. Must be your karma.http://crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/wizard.gif

[Matches]

Indeed, it was. In fact, this was the fourth straight day I've been at Turner Field, so any thanks y'all might wish to issue for the current win streak may be directed to me.:p

Congrats to you! Also congrats to Brian McCann for his lesser role in the victories! :)

[Duvall]

Well, at least tonight's loss was a game the Braves deserved to lose.

[Duvall]

The team is just broken right now in every sense of the word.

[Matches]

Anyone available to play the outfield?

Anyone?

[Duvall]

Hear me out: Hinske to LF, Schaefer to CF, Mather to RF, Prado to 2B, Uggla to Gwinnett.

[Jarhead]

Hear me out: Hinske to LF, Schaefer to CF, Mather to RF, Prado to 2B, Uggla to Gwinnett.

Ugh, the Gwinnettians won't like that.http://crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/14.gif
But, what's the beef? It's early in the year, and for the month of May, so far, they are playing at a .636 pace. That's a play off pace, and a he11 of a lot better than their .443 pace in April.
http://crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/02cents.gif

[wilson]

Uggla is obviously scuffling, but he ain't going to Gwinnett, ever. So we can just perish that thought.
Solid win today, in spite of late-inning defensive adventures.

[devildeac]

Uggla is obviously scuffling, but he ain't going to Gwinnett, ever. So we can just perish that thought.
Solid win today, in spite of late-inning defensive adventures.

With his line in today's game and stats for the year, "scuffling" is being kind. Very kind:mad:.
Hitters AB R H RBI BB SO #P AVG OBP SLG
D Uggla 2B 5 0 0 0 0 3 22 .180 .250 .335

(I know he's not going to Gwinnett. Just quoting some facts. Some depressing, sub-Mendoza type facts.)

[JasonEvans]

Ahh, nothing like the Pirates to make your team feel better about itself, eh?

Well, that may be a bit insulting to them, but still, the Braves needed an easy opponent, I think and they got one.

Still, the offense remains incredibly anemic. In the last 10 games, they have scored more than 4 runs one time... and it took a 12 inning game for them to do it. With the pitching staff this team has, if they can average even 4 runs per game, they will win 60% of their games.

-Jason "I can't see the Marlins continuing at this pace... but they have been darn good so far" Evans

[JasonEvans]

It is hard to put into words how bad Dan Uggla has been at the plate lately. I happened to look over his recent stats... terrifying.

He batted .202 in the month of April with an OPS of .653. Anemic numbers for a position player.

It has gotten much worse in May. His batting average in May is .173. His OPS is .560. Those numbers are barely acceptable for a pitcher. If you take out one shining, glorious day against Milwaukee on May 4th, when he went 3 for 4, he is 11 for 77 in May, a batting average of...

.142

He's 1 for his last 22 at bats (.045, I'm serious)... 2 for his last 33 (.060).

He has hit 7 homers on the season through 51 games played. Most seasons he plays in about 155 games. So, he is roughly 1/3rd of the way through his season. He projects for 21 homeruns and 45 RBI with 60 runs scored. This from a guy who has averaged 30+ homers, 90+ RBI, and 100 runs over his first 5 season in the bigs.

Uggla is 31 -- this should be one of his most productive years of his career.

Wow... just wow.

-Jason "Uggla is now saying (http://www.ajc.com/sports/atlanta-braves/uggla-acknowedges-pressure-of-957495.html) the big contract he signed in the off-season is weighing on him" Evans

[devildeac]

Pitching has been pretty good.

[devildeac]

Holy moley! Another 0-fer in the books for the multi-multi million $$ man who is now batting .178. Is there another sub-sub Mendoza standard to which he can be held? At least they squeaked out another late inning W. Nice job by the 'pen over the last 7 innings.

[Olympic Fan]

Holy moley! Another 0-fer in the books for the multi-multi million $$ man who is now batting .178. Is there another sub-sub Mendoza standard to which he can be held? At least they squeaked out another late inning W. Nice job by the 'pen over the last 7 innings.

And great to see Chipper deliver the walk-off hit in the 12th! Another notch in his HOF resume.

[Jarhead]

It's been a week and a half since anyone posted in this thread, and has anyone noticed that Heyward hasn't played for a while? Chipper spoke out about it today, saying basically that Heyward playing at 80% is better than some in the batting order playing at 100%. In the meantime the Braves have been hanging in there with some help from the their pitching staff and the Marlins, and are firmly at second place in their division, three games behind the Phillies. I remain hopeful.

[devildeac]

It's been a week and a half since anyone posted in this thread, and has anyone noticed that Heyward hasn't played for a while? Chipper spoke out about it today, saying basically that Heyward playing at 80% is better than some in the batting order playing at 100%. In the meantime the Braves have been hanging in there with some help from the their pitching staff and the Marlins, and are firmly at second place in their division, three games behind the Phillies. I remain hopeful.

And Lowe pitched very well last PM, Kimbrell "earned" another BS but managed to pick up the W in the 10th and Uggla has the lowest BA in the NL:mad:. You are correct though that they keep hanging in there at 3 GB after last night's victory and the Phils' L.

[Jarhead]

And Lowe pitched very well last PM, Kimbrell "earned" another BS but managed to pick up the W in the 10th and Uggla has the lowest BA in the NL:mad:. You are correct though that they keep hanging in there at 3 GB after last night's victory and the Phils' L.
How does Uggla even stay in the lineup. It must be his defense, but his bonehead plays somehow don't show in his error stats. A play I remember most with a man on first was him not even going to cover second on a hot grounder to short. The shortstop made the play, but where was Uggla? The announcer guessed he must have decided that the shortstop would not make the play on the ball. End result was no play.

[Duvall]

How does Uggla even stay in the lineup. It must be his defense, but his bonehead plays somehow don't show in his error stats.

Uggla's mediocre defense has been a pleasant surprise (he was worse with the Marlins), but the real reason he stays in the lineup is his $64 million contract.

[Olympic Fan]

Considering that Uggla has been a complete bust and that Jason has been hurt/ineffective all season, it's amazing that the Braves are as close as they are. If they could get those two bats going, Atlanta could maken a real run at the Phillies.

[devildeac]

Uggla's mediocre defense has been a pleasant surprise (he was worse with the Marlins), but the real reason he stays in the lineup is his $64 million contract.

I was wondering when Duvall would reply;). Beat me to it with the contract reference:mad:. Where else is he gonna go? He's not going to Gwinnett and Evans isn't taking him home with him so his sons can give him hitting tips, so he'll be in the IF the rest of the year.

[Jarhead]

Just how did that $64 million contract happen? C'mon, 'fess up somebody. Admit it. Talk about your bonehead plays. http://crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/icon_swear.gif

[devildeac]

Just how did that $64 million contract happen? C'mon, 'fess up somebody. Admit it. Talk about your bonehead plays. http://crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/icon_swear.gif

Braves pick up the W last PM on another good performance by Jurrens and Venters with the save out of the 'pen. Quite the battle going on for the Braves now at 2B with Conrad at .171 and Uggla at .170. :o

[COYS]

I love that the Braves keep winning, but I am pessimistic that we can keep it up unless the bats improve. The pitching really has been stellar, but it would be a monumental achievement for the staff to keep it up at this rate for the whole year. This isn't to say that I don't think pitching will continue to be our strength. However, there will be a time when we need the bats to wake up. As much as I appreciate Chipper's candor, I think he's dead wrong about Heyward. Let's get him fully healthy for the first time since his first month in the majors when he was an MVP candidate and a shoe-in for ROY. He tried battling through that thumb injury last year and it led to 2 months of bad hitting and then a stint on the DL. This year, he's tried to play through his shoulder injury and it's led to him being just a bit better than a replacement level player. Not all injuries are alike. Some you can battle through, some are just the right type of injury to totally mess up a swing. And that's exactly what's happened to Jason. When he does come back healthy, it will be like we traded for an awesome bat while simultaneously improving our bench as Hinske/Mather will then be available to pinch hit more consistently. I'm willing to wait and get Jason's career back on track the right way.

[Olympic Fan]

As much as I appreciate Chipper's candor, I think he's dead wrong about Heyward. Let's get him fully healthy for the first time since his first month in the majors when he was an MVP candidate and a shoe-in for ROY. He tried battling through that thumb injury last year and it led to 2 months of bad hitting and then a stint on the DL. This year, he's tried to play through his shoulder injury and it's led to him being just a bit better than a replacement level player. Not all injuries are alike. Some you can battle through, some are just the right type of injury to totally mess up a swing. And that's exactly what's happened to Jason. When he does come back healthy, it will be like we traded for an awesome bat while simultaneously improving our bench as Hinske/Mather will then be available to pinch hit more consistently. I'm willing to wait and get Jason's career back on track the right way.

Agree with everything in this post.

It's impossible to guage injuries and the impact they have on a player's game. We have a sports culture that values toughness and the ability to play with pain. That makes it hard to recognize when pushing through pain can be the wrong thing to do.

I grew up a Yankee fan and still remember what happened to Roger Maris in 1965. He hurt his wrist in spring, but was encouraged to play through it. When he complained about his injury, management labeled him a malingerer ... a cry-baby. He kept insisting there was too much pain to play and they told him to look at Mantle, who played in pain his entire career. When Maris kept complaining, they sent him to a succession of doctors, who examined the wrist and found nothing wrong. When Maris finally went to his own doctor, the x-rays clearly showed bone chips in the wrist. By playing through the injury, he damaged the nerves in the back of his hand. He was never the same player -- he went from the best power hitter in the game to a singles hitter.

The Yankees did the same to Tom Tresh, who hurt his knee in the spring of 1966, but was encouraged to play through it. He ruined his knee ... and the best young player in the American League was done at age 28.

Heyward is too valuable to risk. I hope he waits until he's healthy before he returns.

[Duvall]

So Prado is now on the disabled list with a staph infection (http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-braves-blog/2011/06/10/prado-on-dl-for-staph-infection-of-calf/).

Why didn't MLB contract the Marlins when they had the chance?

[COYS]

Hooray offense. The pitching staff had an "off" night allowing 4 runs (gasp!) yet the Bravos managed 4 more runs last night than they got during the entire series in south Florida for an easy win. Freeman really has turned it on. As Olympic Fan has pointed out a number of times, he has generally taken a little while to adjust when he's been bumped up a level, but he definitely seems to have made the necessary adjustments thus far. A rookie is prone to slumps as the rest of the league counters his adjustments, but he is the lone bright spot in the offense that will be without Prado's services for a while. Chipper also had a great night last night, capped off with a homer of his own. I think winning games 4-2, 3-2, 2-1, etc. will be the name of the game for a while, but maybe Minute Maid Park is just what the doctor ordered to give the pitching staff one series where they can relax just a bit knowing that the offense has their back.

[Olympic Fan]

Interesting that with all the praise showed on th Phillies' superstaff, that going ibnto today's games, the Braves actually have the best staff ERA in the National League (2.99). The Phillies (3.18) are actually third behind the Giants (3.16).

Now, I admit that a good part of the Braves' edge is the superiority of its pen. The matchup in starters is close. If you rank the top 5 starters of each team by ERA, it's:

1. Jurrjens, Braves 1.82
2. Halladay, Phils 2.39
3. Hansen, Braves 2.59
4. Hamels, Phils 2.88
5. Oswalt, Phils 3.05
6. Beachy, Braves 3.45
7. Lee, Phils 3.62
8. Lowe, Braves 3.73
9. Hudson, Braves 4.06
10. Blanton, Phils 5.50

[devildeac]

Interesting that with all the praise showed on th Phillies' superstaff, that going ibnto today's games, the Braves actually have the best staff ERA in the National League (2.99). The Phillies (3.18) are actually third behind the Giants (3.16).

Now, I admit that a good part of the Braves' edge is the superiority of its pen. The matchup in starters is close. If you rank the top 5 starters of each team by ERA, it's:

1. Jurrjens, Braves 1.82
2. Halladay, Phils 2.39
3. Hansen, Braves 2.59
4. Hamels, Phils 2.88
5. Oswalt, Phils 3.05
6. Beachy, Braves 3.45
7. Lee, Phils 3.62
8. Lowe, Braves 3.73
9. Hudson, Braves 4.06
10. Blanton, Phils 5.50

I had noticed that several weeks running while reviewing the stats every Sunday in the Raleigh N&O. The offense is really anemic with about a .246 BA, up from about .240 several weeks ago:eek:. I know there are other stats like OBP, R, RBI, SO, BB, RISP BA, etc, but they have some lame bats in the line-up (cough, cough, Uggla) that are fortunately waking up a bit.

[Jarhead]

I had noticed that several weeks running while reviewing the stats every Sunday in the Raleigh N&O. The offense is really anemic with about a .246 BA, up from about .240 several weeks ago:eek:. I know there are other stats like OBP, R, RBI, SO, BB, RISP BA, etc, but they have some lame bats in the line-up (cough, cough, Uggla) that are fortunately waking up a bit.

How about the ESPN stats included in the standings? They show runs scored and runs allowed and the difference between the two. As of this evening those stats are even for the Phillies and the Braves, +41. What we have here are the only data that indicates the the winner of a game. Nothing else counts. Most of the other stats show nothing more than potential. Sometimes, he11, most of the time, those are left in the dugout. I remember, back in the day, a famous manager's favorite instructions just before a game inspired his team with, "Go out and score me some runs."

[devildeac]

How about the ESPN stats included in the standings? They show runs scored and runs allowed and the difference between the two. As of this evening those stats are even for the Phillies and the Braves, +41. What we have here are the only data that indicates the the winner of a game. Nothing else counts. Most of the other stats show nothing more than potential. Sometimes, he11, most of the time, those are left in the dugout. I remember, back in the day, a famous manager's favorite instructions just before a game inspired his team with, "Go out and score me some runs."

You are correct oh well-aged and learned one;). That's another one of the stats I had looked at and the Braves, IIRC, have been 1st or 2nd in the NL for several weeks. Pretty impressive.

[JohnGalt]

Over .500! Woot Woot!

9983-9982.

http://www.ajc.com/sports/atlanta-braves/after-88-years-braves-974802.html

[camion]

Yep. I heard the announcers mention that. The last time the Braves franchise was above .500 was in 1923. It's been a long road.

[devildeac]

Nice win yesterday. Great pitching by Hanson and the 'pen. Has Venters taken over the closer role now after a couple of Kimbrell's misadventures? Pretty efficient hitting with 4 runs on 5 hits, all coming from the top of the line-up. Uggla on a tear raising his BA to a staggering .183 now.:rolleyes:

[COYS]

Nice win yesterday. Great pitching by Hanson and the 'pen. Has Venters taken over the closer role now after a couple of Kimbrell's misadventures? Pretty efficient hitting with 4 runs on 5 hits, all coming from the top of the line-up. Uggla on a tear raising his BA to a staggering .183 now.:rolleyes:

I think Venters will be used as a closer more frequently over the course of the rest of the year, but to be honest, I don't think it matters much. Saves are, for the most part, a useless stat. If Kimbrel pitches the 8th and "blows" the save then, then Venters never gets to pitch for the save in the 9th. While Kimbrel hasn't been perfect, he really has been very good. He's a rookie and is learning. Venters, on the other hand, has been the best pitcher in baseball . . . period. He should be a legitimate Cy Young candidate even though he won't because he's not getting the "saves" to his name. Here are some stats from the awesome Capital Avenue Club blog (http://capitolavenueclub.com/?p=4430). Back to the closer debate, if the starting pitcher goes 8 innings and it is a one run game and you want to win, you go with Venters if you can. Otherwise, I like Venters in the 8th (or whenever the game is on the line). He is just as valuable in the 8th as he is in the 9th.

[camion]

I agree about Venters. Whichever inning is crucial, that's the one I want to see Venters pitching. His stuff is just plain nasty and he knows how to use it. Very few of his pitches end up in a good place for the hitter.

[JasonEvans]

I agree about Venters. Whichever inning is crucial, that's the one I want to see Venters pitching. His stuff is just plain nasty and he knows how to use it. Very few of his pitches end up in a good place for the hitter.

I think managers fall into this trap of "the 9th inning is when I use the closer." Umm, if a team has batters 2-3-4 coming up in the 8th, I would use my best reliever in that inning in the hope that my second best could then handle the 9th inning against batters 5 or 6 thru 9. Right?

--Jason "Venters has been absurd so far" Evans

[JasonEvans]

I think there is little question now that Kimbrell is the set-up guy and Venters is the closer. In the 8th inning tonight, with Atlanta trailing by a run, Kimbrell was the guy who pitched.

I think Freddy G is calling them "co-closers" but I bet we see a lot more of Venters in the 9th than we do of Kimbrell.

--Jason "pity, as I think the setup guy gets more innings and I would rather see Venters get as many innings as possible" Evans

[Duvall]

I think there is little question now that Kimbrell is the set-up guy and Venters is the closer. In the 8th inning tonight, with Atlanta trailing by a run, Kimbrell was the guy who pitched.

I think Freddy G is calling them "co-closers" but I bet we see a lot more of Venters in the 9th than we do of Kimbrell.

--Jason "pity, as I think the setup guy gets more innings and I would rather see Venters get as many innings as possible" Evans

Unless you own a share of Dr. James Andrews' practice, I would think you would want to see Venters make fewer appearances this season, not more.

[Duvall]

I really wish the Mets would get around to trading Jose Reyes. Or at least send him to work for the Madoff trustee.

[Duvall]

It's one thing to lose a series to a major league baseball team, but the Mets?

[Jarhead]

The Braves did win tonight, 9-8 in extra innings with a walk off, ugh, BALK. Any stats on that happening, ever? My hero, Chipper, had 5 rbis.

[JasonEvans]

I think there is little question now that Kimbrell is the set-up guy and Venters is the closer. In the 8th inning tonight, with Atlanta trailing by a run, Kimbrell was the guy who pitched.

I think Freddy G is calling them "co-closers" but I bet we see a lot more of Venters in the 9th than we do of Kimbrell.

And we can chalk up another example of Jason being WRONG!

Tonight, in a 6-6 game, the Braves turned to Venters in the 7th. He gave up a run that inning and then pitched the 8th as well, giving up another run (this one was unearned).

Kimbrell pitched the 9th, though it was not a save opportunity.

--Jason "Venters run moved his ERA to a stratospheric 0.63... the horror!" Evans

[Bob Green]

...could the Braves please beat up the Rangers in inter-league play? Us Mariners fans would love to see the Rangers lose three in Atlanta so the DBR Atlanta mafia needs to get their mojo going and make it happen. :)

[Duvall]

...could the Braves please beat up the Rangers in inter-league play? Us Mariners fans would love to see the Rangers lose three in Atlanta so the DBR Atlanta mafia needs to get their mojo going and make it happen. :)

Outlook not so good.

[Duvall]

Tough break for the Mariners, having to play the Phillies while the Rangers got the weekend off.

[Olympic Fan]

Maybe too early to start thinking about this, but with Saturday's results, the Braves are now six back of the Phillies. Not an impossible margin and a big hill to climb -- especially since it seems to be getting bigger.

That made me check the wild card standings. As on Sunday morning (June 19), the Braves are in a three-way tie with St. Louis and Arizona for the wild car lead.

Heard an interesting bit of speculation from Doug Glanville on ESPN radio. He was talking about Jose Reyes, who is playing great for the Mets, but is in the last year of his contract and the Mets (with financial problems from the Madoff mess) have already said they can't re-sign him.

Glanville said that Reyes is definitely gone. What's most interesting is that he speculated that the two teams most likely to trade for him were Detroit or Atlamta. Not sure the Mets would want to deal him within the division, still he could have a huge impact on the Braves' offense. As of today, Reyes is probably the best leadoff man in baseball.

The qjuestion is, what would you give up to get him? To me, there are two answers, depending on whether (1) the Braves are just planning to rent him for the rest of the season and let him go (still worth doing since he could be the missing piece to make them a playoff team) or (2) sign him long-term (he's still a young player with a bright future).

I think that given the Braves' finances, they would opt for option one. They have some good young arms, which might tempt the Mets, but I doubt they make a mega-offer. Hopefully, they won't make the same kind of mistake they made when they over-paid to rest Mark Texiera for a year.

[Duvall]

Heard an interesting bit of speculation from Doug Glanville on ESPN radio. He was talking about Jose Reyes, who is playing great for the Mets, but is in the last year of his contract and the Mets (with financial problems from the Madoff mess) have already said they can't re-sign him.

Glanville said that Reyes is definitely gone. What's most interesting is that he speculated that the two teams most likely to trade for him were Detroit or Atlamta. Not sure the Mets would want to deal him within the division, still he could have a huge impact on the Braves' offense. As of today, Reyes is probably the best leadoff man in baseball.

The qjuestion is, what would you give up to get him? To me, there are two answers, depending on whether (1) the Braves are just planning to rent him for the rest of the season and let him go (still worth doing since he could be the missing piece to make them a playoff team) or (2) sign him long-term (he's still a young player with a bright future).

I think that given the Braves' finances, they would opt for option one. They have some good young arms, which might tempt the Mets, but I doubt they make a mega-offer. Hopefully, they won't make the same kind of mistake they made when they over-paid to rest Mark Texiera for a year.

Unless Reyes can play CF, I don't see why the Braves would get involved at all. Reyes' career numbers just aren't good enough to warrant giving up prospects to rent him for 90 games.

[SCMatt33]

Unless Reyes can play CF, I don't see why the Braves would get involved at all. Reyes' career numbers just aren't good enough to warrant giving up prospects to rent him for 90 games.

The Braves wouldn't be just renting him for 90 days. He will be at least a type B free agent and is quickly trending towards type A. They would get compensation round pick and possibly a first round pick for him as well. Only the other hand, that's also one of the big reasons why the Mets won't just give him away for nothing (the fact that they're 3.5 games out of the wild card at the start of the day doesn't help either).

[Duvall]

The Braves wouldn't be just renting him for 90 days. He will be at least a type B free agent and is quickly trending towards type A. They would get compensation round pick and possibly a first round pick for him as well. Only the other hand, that's also one of the big reasons why the Mets won't just give him away for nothing (the fact that they're 3.5 games out of the wild card at the start of the day doesn't help either).

Wouldn't the Braves have to offer arbitration to get draft picks? Not sure they have the payroll flexibility to take the chance that he might accept.

[Bob Green]

Thanks for the assistance! Now Seattle needs to take care of business against Philadelphia.

[Olympic Fan]

Unless Reyes can play CF, I don't see why the Braves would get involved at all. Reyes' career numbers just aren't good enough to warrant giving up prospects to rent him for 90 games.

I don't understand the skepticism. Short-term, Reyers is having an explosive year -- a 910 OPS and a 153 OPS-plus (a .343 average). Those are MVP range stats for a middle infielder. By contrast Alex Gonzales, the Braves SS has a .673 OPS (84 OPS plus).

Reyes would be a HUGE upgrade for the Braves offense. Especially since he's a terrific baserunner on pace to steal 60-plus bases.

Obviously, Reyes is having a career year (funny how often that happens in the last year of a contract. But he's a 28-year -old with a career .290 BA and a career 779 OPS (105 OPS plus) who has averaged 58 steals per 162 games for his career. Gonzales by contrast is a 34 year old with a career .248 average, a .694 OPS (81 OPS plus) and three steals per 162 games.

I don't see why you would dismiss the prospect of getting Reyes. Obviously (as I mentioned) you don't want to overpay, but he would be worth some prospects to rent and a few more if you could work out a deal. I think he's determined to test the free agent market, so trading for him, offering arbitration, then getting draft compensation would be useful.

As SCMatt pointed out, that might convince the Mets to keep him ... the trade would have to bring more than they would get in draft compensation.

[Duvall]

I don't understand the skepticism. Short-term, Reyers is having an explosive year -- a 910 OPS and a 153 OPS-plus (a .343 average). Those are MVP range stats for a middle infielder. By contrast Alex Gonzales, the Braves SS has a .673 OPS (84 OPS plus).

Reyes would be a HUGE upgrade for the Braves offense. Especially since he's a terrific baserunner on pace to steal 60-plus bases.

Obviously, Reyes is having a career year (funny how often that happens in the last year of a contract. But he's a 28-year -old with a career .290 BA and a career 779 OPS (105 OPS plus) who has averaged 58 steals per 162 games for his career. Gonzales by contrast is a 34 year old with a career .248 average, a .694 OPS (81 OPS plus) and three steals per 162 games.

The skepticism comes from the fact that Reyes isn't a great player having a breakout season; he's a good player who's had a couple of hot months. There's no reason to think that he will sustain that success for the remainder of the season. I don't see why the Braves should give up prospects to pay for a couple of flukishly strong months that have already ended. The Teixeria deal was a horrible decision, but at least he was a legitimate elite player. Plus, Reyes is still owed roughly $6 million for the rest of *this* season*, and the Braves can't afford to add that kind of salary. Should they give up even more prospects to get salary relief from the Mets, just to add 80 points of OPS for half a season? Pass.


I don't see why you would dismiss the prospect of getting Reyes. Obviously (as I mentioned) you don't want to overpay, but he would be worth some prospects to rent and a few more if you could work out a deal. I think he's determined to test the free agent market, so trading for him, offering arbitration, then getting draft compensation would be useful.


Working out a deal with Reyes is not an option for the Braves. They can't afford him at his free market rate; they can't afford him at a discounted rate. They already have one grotesquely overpaid middle infielder, they certainly can't take on a second.

[devildeac]

Good W last PM. Minor with 7 solid innings with 1 BB and 8 K, allowing only 5 H with a nice hold and save from the 'pen. Amazing that the Braves knocked out 11 H, with Uggla of course having another 0-fer dropping his already anemic average farther below his weight and the Mendoza line:mad:. Good to see Chipper back in the line-up, too.

[COYS]

Good W last PM. Minor with 7 solid innings with 1 BB and 8 K, allowing only 5 H with a nice hold and save from the 'pen. Amazing that the Braves knocked out 11 H, with Uggla of course having another 0-fer dropping his already anemic average farther below his weight and the Mendoza line:mad:. Good to see Chipper back in the line-up, too.

Really good to see Minor have a good game. If his number is called again, hopefully he'll be able to replicate this performance. He and Beachy are really showing more promise than originally advertised. Their K-rates are surprisingly good, Beachy's especially. It is a luxury to have those guys as the "fifth" starters. Since Jurrjens is a Boras client and likely won't be in a Braves Uni in a few years, the quality of starting pitching we have stockpiled in the minors helps me feel confident we can continue to have a dominant rotation 1-5 when/if Jurrjens leaves. I also expect Lowe to be gone after his contract is up, as well. As it stands right now, the Braves won't have to trade away anyone or sign anyone to fill the voids left by those two.

Also, mammoth praise for McCann. He's really stepped up. His power numbers have really gone up, recently. He is deserving of the starting spot on the All Star team that he is destined to finally receive this year. He's also the offensive MVP of the team by the widest of margins. He and Ross are by far the best catching combo in baseball. They also have both called great games for our pitching staff, this year.

[Olympic Fan]

Although the Braves are four games behind the Phillies, they have the second-best record in the National League, so at the moment they are in good shape in the wild card race (with a long, LONG way to go).

We've got a West Coast swing starting tonight in San Diego. That's usually tough, although the Padres are strugglong.

Let me add my relief that Chipper's injury was minor ... and my bigger relief that Jason is back in the lineup and seems to be hitting again.

[Duvall]

Although the Braves are four games behind the Phillies, they have the second-best record in the National League, so at the moment they are in good shape in the wild card race (with a long, LONG way to go).


Interesting (http://content.usatoday.com/sportsdata/baseball/mlb/salaries/team).

Phillies – .618 $172,976,739 (2nd)
Red Sox – .595 $161,762,475 (3rd)
Yankees – .589 $202,689,028 (1st)
Braves – .566 $87,002,692 (15th)

[JasonEvans]

Really good to see Minor have a good game. If his number is called again, hopefully he'll be able to replicate this performance. He and Beachy are really showing more promise than originally advertised. Their K-rates are surprisingly good, Beachy's especially. It is a luxury to have those guys as the "fifth" starters. Since Jurrjens is a Boras client and likely won't be in a Braves Uni in a few years, the quality of starting pitching we have stockpiled in the minors helps me feel confident we can continue to have a dominant rotation 1-5 when/if Jurrjens leaves. I also expect Lowe to be gone after his contract is up, as well. As it stands right now, the Braves won't have to trade away anyone or sign anyone to fill the voids left by those two.


Don't forget that the Bravos have one of the top pitching prospects in baseball in Julio Teheran tearing it up at AAA right now. He has a 7-1 record with an ridiculous ERA of 1.83 and an even more ridiculous WHIP of .979. He has 68 Ks and only 16 walks... kid is gonna be a very solid fixture in the rotation for years.

It is my belief that Teheran (20 years old), Hanson (24, won't be a free agent for 4 or 5 years, I think), and Hudson (signed thru end of 2012, with a very reasonable Braves option for 2013) will be the core of the Braves rotation for the next several years. Jurjens is arbitration eligible for 2012 and 13 and becomes a free agent in 2014. So, I see those 4 guys as the rotation for the next 2 years.

Beyond that, we'll see what happens. Things are very, very good with the pitching for at least 2 more years after this season.

-Jason "good to be the Braves right about now!" Evans

[BlueDevilBaby]

The Braves did win tonight, 9-8 in extra innings with a walk off, ugh, BALK. Any stats on that happening, ever? My hero, Chipper, had 5 rbis.

Believe it happened to the Nats last season.:(

[COYS]

Don't forget that the Bravos have one of the top pitching prospects in baseball in Julio Teheran tearing it up at AAA right now. He has a 7-1 record with an ridiculous ERA of 1.83 and an even more ridiculous WHIP of .979. He has 68 Ks and only 16 walks... kid is gonna be a very solid fixture in the rotation for years.

It is my belief that Teheran (20 years old), Hanson (24, won't be a free agent for 4 or 5 years, I think), and Hudson (signed thru end of 2012, with a very reasonable Braves option for 2013) will be the core of the Braves rotation for the next several years. Jurjens is arbitration eligible for 2012 and 13 and becomes a free agent in 2014. So, I see those 4 guys as the rotation for the next 2 years.

Beyond that, we'll see what happens. Things are very, very good with the pitching for at least 2 more years after this season.

-Jason "good to be the Braves right about now!" Evans

I didn't even mention Teheran but I certainly haven't forgotten him. He's expected to be really good, though, and I was mostly attempting to highlight the insane depth the Braves have. Even unheralded prospects like Beachy and a widely-criticized first round pick in Minor have shown they have bright futures. Between those two, Teheran, and the other talent the Braves have tucked away in the minors, the Braves will really be in a powerful position with regards to potential trades, especially if financial concerns come to the forefront as Jurrjens gets into his arbitration years. Don't get me wrong, I love JJ and hope he's around for more than two more years. However, the Braves have the luxury of dealing from position of strength when making decisions about the rotation and how to best balance cost and performance. It such an amazing change from a few years ago when the Braves were praying that Mike Hampton would get healthy and return to dominant form in order to round out the rotation or that an over 40 Glavine who hadn't been particularly good in a long time would be able to fight back for one more go around.

[devildeac]

I didn't even mention Teheran but I certainly haven't forgotten him. He's expected to be really good, though, and I was mostly attempting to highlight the insane depth the Braves have. Even unheralded prospects like Beachy and a widely-criticized first round pick in Minor have shown they have bright futures. Between those two, Teheran, and the other talent the Braves have tucked away in the minors, the Braves will really be in a powerful position with regards to potential trades, especially if financial concerns come to the forefront as Jurrjens gets into his arbitration years. Don't get me wrong, I love JJ and hope he's around for more than two more years. However, the Braves have the luxury of dealing from position of strength when making decisions about the rotation and how to best balance cost and performance. It such an amazing change from a few years ago when the Braves were praying that Mike Hampton would get healthy and return to dominant form in order to round out the rotation or that an over 40 Glavine who hadn't been particularly good in a long time would be able to fight back for one more go around.

Let's see, we have the ERA and K/BB ratio covered. Now, about that team BA...

:rolleyes:

[COYS]

Let's see, we have the ERA and K/BB ratio covered. Now, about that team BA...

:rolleyes:

It can only get better, right? I'm praying. McCann might be working on a career year and Freeman has done as much as you can expect for a rookie, but everyone else has been somewhere between awful and mediocre. I still wonder how healthy Heyward is. Uggla keeps showing promise and then follows it up with a terrible day at the plate. The good news is, at least he's shown a little promise on occasion the past two weeks. Before that, it looked hopeless for him. Heyward and Uggla have been so incredibly far below where we hoped they would be that if they were to move up to the mediocre side of the scale, it would be a huge improvement.

[devildeac]

It can only get better, right? I'm praying. McCann might be working on a career year and Freeman has done as much as you can expect for a rookie, but everyone else has been somewhere between awful and mediocre. I still wonder how healthy Heyward is. Uggla keeps showing promise and then follows it up with a terrible day at the plate. The good news is, at least he's shown a little promise on occasion the past two weeks. Before that, it looked hopeless for him. Heyward and Uggla have been so incredibly far below where we hoped they would be that if they were to move up to the mediocre side of the scale, it would be a huge improvement.

I know there are more metrics than BA but I was encouraged a few weeks ago when I looked at the Sunday stats and saw the BA had risen from .240 to .248 or so, IIRC. Yesterday's was significanly worse at .238, putting them 3rd worst in the NL. I hope you are correct with your "it can only get better.":(

[COYS]

I know there are more metrics than BA but I was encouraged a few weeks ago when I looked at the Sunday stats and saw the BA had risen from .240 to .248 or so, IIRC. Yesterday's was significanly worse at .238, putting them 3rd worst in the NL. I hope you are correct with your "it can only get better.":(

On the other hand, the pitching has only been strengthened by the return of Brandon Beachy. Wow. 3 hits, 1 walk, 9 K's in 6 innings pitched. That's a .666 WHIP, a 9:1 K/BB ratio and 1.5 K's per inning. That brings his season totals to 10.56 K per 9 innings pitched and a 1.03 WHIP. That's the stuff aces are made of, not 5th starters. He's still young, but his control combined with his strikeout ability and his poise have got to have the Braves brass doing backflips. If he can keep this up, he looks more like a 1, 2, or 3 starter than back of the rotation filler.

[Matches]

On the other hand, the pitching has only been strengthened by the return of Brandon Beachy. Wow. 3 hits, 1 walk, 9 K's in 6 innings pitched. That's a .666 WHIP, a 9:1 K/BB ratio and 1.5 K's per inning. That brings his season totals to 10.56 K per 9 innings pitched and a 1.03 WHIP. That's the stuff aces are made of, not 5th starters. He's still young, but his control combined with his strikeout ability and his poise have got to have the Braves brass doing backflips. If he can keep this up, he looks more like a 1, 2, or 3 starter than back of the rotation filler.

Hard to believe he was an undrafted FA.

What do ya'll think of Heyward hitting leadoff? I suspect it's only temporary until Prado gets back but definitely an interesting choice.

[devildeac]

Hard to believe he was an undrafted FA.

What do ya'll think of Heyward hitting leadoff? I suspect it's only temporary until Prado gets back but definitely an interesting choice.

I was rather surprised to see that also looking at the box score this AM. Heck, who else is going to lead off? Mc Clouth? Uggla? Schaeffer?

Great job by Beachy like COYS said. Good job by the 'pen again with Kimbrell having 3 Ks on 12 pitches and his 21st save. Put Venters in the doghouse after his 4R outing in San Diego for the L a couple days ago. (mostly kidding here-he has been almost superhuman as has been discussed here already)

[COYS]

I really hope that Venter's back to back poor outings aren't evidence of the fact that he's already exhausted for the season. He has pitched in probably 10 too many 4 run games and 6 of the last 8 games recently, including two back to back appearances in 4 run games against one of the worst offenses in the majors. This happened even though pretty much everyone in the bullpen is in good shape except maybe Proctor . . . but we had a 4 run lead to protect! Now Venters isn't available for the entire O's series and maybe beyond that. I will be angry if we have some true high leverage situations for the bullpen against the O's and we end up losing because we don't have a healthy, well-rested, lights-out Venters waiting to close the book. Kimbrel has been protected from overuse because he's "the closer" and usually only comes in in save situations. Venters has been massively overused and it's starting to show. Here's to Johnny coming back strong in a few days and here's to O'Flaherty and the rest of the bullpen proving beyond a shadow of a doubt that they are capable of handling an 8th inning here or there.

[devildeac]

I really hope that Venter's back to back poor outings aren't evidence of the fact that he's already exhausted for the season. He has pitched in probably 10 too many 4 run games and 6 of the last 8 games recently, including two back to back appearances in 4 run games against one of the worst offenses in the majors. This happened even though pretty much everyone in the bullpen is in good shape except maybe Proctor . . . but we had a 4 run lead to protect! Now Venters isn't available for the entire O's series and maybe beyond that. I will be angry if we have some true high leverage situations for the bullpen against the O's and we end up losing because we don't have a healthy, well-rested, lights-out Venters waiting to close the book. Kimbrel has been protected from overuse because he's "the closer" and usually only comes in in save situations. Venters has been massively overused and it's starting to show. Here's to Johnny coming back strong in a few days and here's to O'Flaherty and the rest of the bullpen proving beyond a shadow of a doubt that they are capable of handling an 8th inning here or there.
I hope that's not the case, too. Just looked up the stats on mlb.com (the Braves site did not have them) and noted that Venters has 51 IP in 46 G and Kimbrell 41 IP in 42G. Doesn't seem like that big a gap. Is/should that be enough to make much of a difference at this time of year? Your observations/worries are well-taken however. But with the offensive woes that Braves have had this year, they won't pound people regularly so it looks like a lot of close, low-scoring games (sigh).

[COYS]

I hope that's not the case, too. Just looked up the stats on mlb.com (the Braves site did not have them) and noted that Venters has 51 IP in 46 G and Kimbrell 41 IP in 42G. Doesn't seem like that big a gap. Is/should that be enough to make much of a difference at this time of year? Your observations/worries are well-taken however. But with the offensive woes that Braves have had this year, they won't pound people regularly so it looks like a lot of close, low-scoring games (sigh).

51 innings is a ton at the halfway mark. He's on pace for over 100 innings pitched in relief. To put this in perspective, Venters is 5 innings ahead of the second closest reliever, Jim Johnson of Baltimore. The thing is, Johnson has gotten lots of his innings in long relief with a few situational appearances. That means he has significant periods of time when he's not pitching. Venters has pitched in 11 more games than Johnson. That means he's warmed up 11 more times, not counting the times he has to warm up and is then never used, plus he's actually pitched in 5 additional innings. Scott Proctor (Yankees 2006) was the last pitcher to reach that mark. He's had arm troubles ever since. Even then, he was used for a lot of long relief and only actually pitched in 83 games. Scott Shields bested 100 IP in relief in 2004 but only appeared in 60 games, again, he at least had some time off between appearances even if he did pitch in an unusually large number of innings. It's hard enough for starters to stay healthy enough to consistently pitch 200 innings of quality ball year end and year out, and they get 4-5 days off between appearances most of the time to recover. Venters appears in over half of the games, warms up for even more, and throws at least an innings worth of pitches every time in with very few full days of rest in between. There's a good reason why relievers only rarely reach the 100 innings plateau, no matter how good they are. Those that do usually rack up a lot of their innings in long relief and get some days off in between. Given that the same Venters that went 30+ scoreless innings at one point suddenly gave up 6 runs to an offense even worse than the Braves, I'd hope the coaching staff and the Braves brass give him some rest and keep a very close eye on his workload and health the rest of the season.

[devildeac]

51 innings is a ton at the halfway mark. He's on pace for over 100 innings pitched in relief. To put this in perspective, Venters is 5 innings ahead of the second closest reliever, Jim Johnson of Baltimore. The thing is, Johnson has gotten lots of his innings in long relief with a few situational appearances. That means he has significant periods of time when he's not pitching. Venters has pitched in 11 more games than Johnson. That means he's warmed up 11 more times, not counting the times he has to warm up and is then never used, plus he's actually pitched in 5 additional innings. Scott Proctor (Yankees 2006) was the last pitcher to reach that mark. He's had arm troubles ever since. Even then, he was used for a lot of long relief and only actually pitched in 83 games. Scott Shields bested 100 IP in relief in 2004 but only appeared in 60 games, again, he at least had some time off between appearances even if he did pitch in an unusually large number of innings. It's hard enough for starters to stay healthy enough to consistently pitch 200 innings of quality ball year end and year out, and they get 4-5 days off between appearances most of the time to recover. Venters appears in over half of the games, warms up for even more, and throws at least an innings worth of pitches every time in with very few full days of rest in between. There's a good reason why relievers only rarely reach the 100 innings plateau, no matter how good they are. Those that do usually rack up a lot of their innings in long relief and get some days off in between. Given that the same Venters that went 30+ scoreless innings at one point suddenly gave up 6 runs to an offense even worse than the Braves, I'd hope the coaching staff and the Braves brass give him some rest and keep a very close eye on his workload and health the rest of the season.

That helps a whole lot and puts it more in perspective. Thanks!

[Bob Green]

All I can say is everyone in Seattle is happy the Braves have left town. :)

[Duvall]

Given that the same Venters that went 30+ scoreless innings at one point suddenly gave up 6 runs to an offense even worse than the Braves, I'd hope the coaching staff and the Braves brass give him some rest and keep a very close eye on his workload and health the rest of the season.

Not likely, given the Braves' punchless offense, strong starting pitching and shallow bullpen.

The only bright spot is that Birmingham is only a three-hour drive away.

[Olympic Fan]

Jair Jurrjens is 25 years old and having a Cy Young-type season (10-3, 2.07 ERA) so far.

However, there was an item on ESPN (sorry, it's in the pay-for-view portion) suggesting that the Braves were willing to trade Jurrjens for a bat. Later, there was an addition that clarified that the Braves were not "shopping" Jurrjens, but would listen to offers.

I'm not sure of his contract status. I think he's still a ways from free agency, which would make him valuable to deal ... but also valuable to keep. Buster Olney suggested that the Braves have the pitching depth to deal a stud like Jurrjens, but I'd think it would take a heck of an offer to even think about it.

If Atlanta is going to trade a starter for a bat, I'd rather make a smaller deal for Lowe or Hudson -- with Teheran on his way, it might make sense to deal one of the older guys for a hitter. You wouldn't get as much as with Jurrjens, but a veteran starter like Hudson or Lowe would still be pretty valuable to a contender, especially in the short term. And it would still leave the core of young arms to sustain the team over the next half-decade.

The problem is, who has excess lumber to deal these days?

[JasonEvans]

Jair Jurrjens is 25 years old and having a Cy Young-type season (10-3, 2.07 ERA) so far.

However, there was an item on ESPN (sorry, it's in the pay-for-view portion) suggesting that the Braves were willing to trade Jurrjens for a bat. Later, there was an addition that clarified that the Braves were not "shopping" Jurrjens, but would listen to offers.

I'm not sure of his contract status. I think he's still a ways from free agency, which would make him valuable to deal ... but also valuable to keep. Buster Olney suggested that the Braves have the pitching depth to deal a stud like Jurrjens, but I'd think it would take a heck of an offer to even think about it.

If Atlanta is going to trade a starter for a bat, I'd rather make a smaller deal for Lowe or Hudson -- with Teheran on his way, it might make sense to deal one of the older guys for a hitter. You wouldn't get as much as with Jurrjens, but a veteran starter like Hudson or Lowe would still be pretty valuable to a contender, especially in the short term. And it would still leave the core of young arms to sustain the team over the next half-decade.

The problem is, who has excess lumber to deal these days?

Would you do Jurjens for Jose Reyes?

-Jason "Jurjens will get arbitration after this year, which will be a biiiig raise" Evans

[Duvall]

Would you do Jurjens for Jose Reyes?

-Jason "Jurjens will get arbitration after this year, which will be a biiiig raise" Evans

God no. Jurrjens is under team control for 2.5 more seasons, Reyes is already under an expensive contract that runs out after another 75 games. The Braves find the money for Jurrjens' arbitration bump when the Kawikami contract ends after this season.

[Olympic Fan]

I think Duval has the right answer -- you can't trade Jurrjens away for a short-timer if he's under team control through 2013 ... even if he will win a big pay raise in arbitration.

Now, Lowe or even Hudson ... maybe ... although I can't imagine the Mets making that deal (because the only way they trade Reyes is if they know they're out of it ... and if they're out of it, why would they want a aging starter?).

If you trade Jurrjens to a powerful offensive team that's worried about its pitching -- maybe the Yankees, the Red Sox or the Rangers -- it would have to be for a hitter who can help you win this year -- or a boatload of prospects (or maybe some combination of the two). Those are the kind of teams that would covet a Hudson or a Lowe for the stretch run ... you might get some sweet prospects for a guy like that (kind of like Smoltz for Doyle Alexander or Jurrjens for Renterina).

[devildeac]

What a gem by Jurrjens last PM with a complete game, one hit shutout, walking 1 with 8 Ks. He also struck out less times than Uggla did:rolleyes:. Is Heyward recovering? Nice to have Kimbrel standing in the bullpen for a change, too, along with Venters getting a rest. The Braves now have the 3rd best record in MLB, behind the Phils and Yanks, with 9 W in their last 11 games.

http://crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/eusa/clap.gif

[Jarhead]

What a gem by Jurrjens last PM with a complete game, one hit shutout, walking 1 with 8 Ks. He also struck out less times than Uggla did:rolleyes:. Is Heyward recovering? Nice to have Kimbrel standing in the bullpen for a change, too, along with Venters getting a rest. The Braves now have the 3rd best record in MLB, behind the Phils and Yanks, with 9 W in their last 11 games.

http://crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/eusa/clap.gif

Well. DD, for a team that has no bats, they can still score. Tonight it was a grand slam by Ross in a 5 run inning that got rolling with a 2 out double by Chipper. Lo and behold, Uggla batted in Chipper, and scored later in the inning with Ross's homer. I'm getting to like Ross. Looking at the runs differential, they are +49 which is the fifth highest in MLB. No weaufing, but I'm thinking playoffs, at least.
http://crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/eusa/clap.gifhttp://crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/angry/screaming.gifYay!

[devildeac]

Well. DD, for a team that has no bats, they can still score. Tonight it was a grand slam by Ross in a 5 run inning that got rolling with a 2 out double by Chipper. Lo and behold, Uggla batted in Chipper, and scored later in the inning with Ross's homer. I'm getting to like Ross. Looking at the runs differential, they are +49 which is the fifth highest in MLB. No weaufing, but I'm thinking playoffs, at least.
http://crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/eusa/clap.gifhttp://crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/angry/screaming.gifYay!

Pretty efficient tonight with 5 R and 7 H and the pitchers and D keeping the Os from scoring more despite 13 H. Ross is doing a fine job as McCann's back-up. Guessing McCann catches tomorrow and Chipper rests. I'll be interested to peruse the batting and pitching stats tomorrow in the Sunday paper. I'll wager the ERA is really close to 3.00 and the BA still sub .240. Good stat about the +/- on the scoring difference.

[COYS]

Jair Jurrjens is 25 years old and having a Cy Young-type season (10-3, 2.07 ERA) so far.

However, there was an item on ESPN (sorry, it's in the pay-for-view portion) suggesting that the Braves were willing to trade Jurrjens for a bat. Later, there was an addition that clarified that the Braves were not "shopping" Jurrjens, but would listen to offers.

I'm not sure of his contract status. I think he's still a ways from free agency, which would make him valuable to deal ... but also valuable to keep. Buster Olney suggested that the Braves have the pitching depth to deal a stud like Jurrjens, but I'd think it would take a heck of an offer to even think about it.

If Atlanta is going to trade a starter for a bat, I'd rather make a smaller deal for Lowe or Hudson -- with Teheran on his way, it might make sense to deal one of the older guys for a hitter. You wouldn't get as much as with Jurrjens, but a veteran starter like Hudson or Lowe would still be pretty valuable to a contender, especially in the short term. And it would still leave the core of young arms to sustain the team over the next half-decade.

The problem is, who has excess lumber to deal these days?

I'll chime in on this too, as I've read the same ESPN article and have wondered what the Braves would be willing to give up for a bat. Part of me still believes that our hitting will get significantly better with the Heyward's return to health and good form. That already seems to be happening, at least a little bit. He hasn't hit a hot streak where he single-handedly carries the team for a few games or even weeks, which we all know he's capable of, but he has significantly upgraded our lineup. Prado's return to the leadoff spot will hopefully give us a higher OBP from the top of the order. Finally, you just gotta believe that Uggla is going to be at least a little better. He certainly can't be worse. In that scenario, I actually think the Braves have a better chance of winning the World Series THIS year with a playoff pitching staff of Hanson, Jurrjens, Hudson, and a possible 4th starter of either Lowe or Beachy than they would taking Jurrjens out of the mix and adding an impact bat. As good as our pitching has been and as impressive as Beachy has been, the relative experience of Jurrjens could prove invaluable to the Braves in the playoffs. At the end of the year, the Braves might be more willing to swing a deal. But unless the Braves get a truly elite bat in return (like, Prince Fielder, Jr. good), I'd just as soon stick to our guns than weaken what has been perhaps the most impressive rotation in baseball in the hopes of getting an extra HR or two.

[Jarhead]

For the life of me, I cannot see any good coming from trading away Jurjens. As long as the batting order is able to produce runs at MLB's fourth ranked differential over its opponents, let's keep on keeping on. Tonight, Colorado got one unearned run off Jurjens while the bats hit away for nine runs. Uggla, my favorite whipping boy, batted in two of those runs. Phillies lost tonight. It keeps on getting better.

[devildeac]

I'll chime in on this too, as I've read the same ESPN article and have wondered what the Braves would be willing to give up for a bat. Part of me still believes that our hitting will get significantly better with the Heyward's return to health and good form. That already seems to be happening, at least a little bit. He hasn't hit a hot streak where he single-handedly carries the team for a few games or even weeks, which we all know he's capable of, but he has significantly upgraded our lineup. Prado's return to the leadoff spot will hopefully give us a higher OBP from the top of the order. Finally, you just gotta believe that Uggla is going to be at least a little better. He certainly can't be worse. In that scenario, I actually think the Braves have a better chance of winning the World Series THIS year with a playoff pitching staff of Hanson, Jurrjens, Hudson, and a possible 4th starter of either Lowe or Beachy than they would taking Jurrjens out of the mix and adding an impact bat. As good as our pitching has been and as impressive as Beachy has been, the relative experience of Jurrjens could prove invaluable to the Braves in the playoffs. At the end of the year, the Braves might be more willing to swing a deal. But unless the Braves get a truly elite bat in return (like, Prince Fielder, Jr. good), I'd just as soon stick to our guns than weaken what has been perhaps the most impressive rotation in baseball in the hopes of getting an extra HR or two.


From your fingertips to the Braves' bats: 14 hits last PM, 2 of them by Uggla, with McOut the only starter not picking up a hit. Jurrjens with a disappointing outing giving up 5 hits (:rolleyes:;)) but he got "bailed out" by 3 guys not named Venters or Kimbrel from the 'pen with 3 shutout innings;).

[camion]

Why is Jurrjens even in the discussion? I consider him our most untouchable player in trade bargaining along with that McCann-Ross guy.

[Duvall]

Why is Jurrjens even in the discussion?

http://sportsbusinessdigest.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/scottboras.jpg

Braves have no chance of resigning Jurrjens when he qualifies as a free agent after the 2013 season. I don't think that's a reason to trade him now, but it might suggest listening to offers after next season.

[Olympic Fan]

Good win today (Thursday) to sweep the Rockies. Shaky start by Hudson, but after giving up two in the first, he was solid the rest of the way. I know the run the eighth was credited to him, but it was more a breakdown of the bullpen.

The best sign was the continued surge of Freddie Freeman (a three-run homer). Heywood also homered (and doubled and singled). If those two maintain their hot play, it will go a long way toward reviving the Braves' offense. Along with McCann and Prado, that's a pretty good long-term foundation of the Atlanta offense.

A three game series in Philadelphia starts Friday. The Braves the second-best record in the NL (by five games over third place), but are three back of the Phillies in the loss column. I don't like the matchups for the series, especially the opener -- Hallasay vs. Beachey.

Still, the Braves are going great.

[COYS]

Good win today (Thursday) to sweep the Rockies. Shaky start by Hudson, but after giving up two in the first, he was solid the rest of the way. I know the run the eighth was credited to him, but it was more a breakdown of the bullpen.

The best sign was the continued surge of Freddie Freeman (a three-run homer). Heywood also homered (and doubled and singled). If those two maintain their hot play, it will go a long way toward reviving the Braves' offense. Along with McCann and Prado, that's a pretty good long-term foundation of the Atlanta offense.

A three game series in Philadelphia starts Friday. The Braves the second-best record in the NL (by five games over third place), but are three back of the Phillies in the loss column. I don't like the matchups for the series, especially the opener -- Hallasay vs. Beachey.

Still, the Braves are going great.

Hopefully our lefties will take advantage of playing in Philly. I have a suspicion Heyward is going to be the second half MVP.

One last thing on Jurrjens trade scenarios. I love JJ. Don't get me wrong. And, as I said before, I think that the Braves have to stick with him this year simply because our pitching staff is so dominant that I don't want to weaken it just to add a bat that probably won't be a top 10 bat. That being said, Jurrjens doesn't strike out many batters (a shy over 5 per 9) and his BABIP (batting average for balls in play) is a miniscule .256 this season (http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=5556&position=P), which implies that he's gotten lucky that a lot of hits have been right at defenders. Also, 84% of runners that reach base have been stranded, which is way higher than his career average (and basically every other pitcher in history's career average) and indicates that part of his really, really low ERA has been luck. I think Jurrjens is definitely a number 2 starter, but he is not the best starter in the NL. Hanson may even be better than Jurrjens right now. He's a guy who has actually gotten a little unlucky and is probably even better than his ERA and W/L record indicates.

Don't get me wrong. I LOVE Jurrjens. I love how he's pitching. I hope he keeps it up. I hope he finishes his career as a Brave and wins 300 games. However, Jurrjens metrics indicate that he will most likely come back down to earth a little bit during the second half of the season. For this reason, I think the Braves brass sees Jurrjens as the most expendable of the young pitchers right now in that his stock is higher than it is ever likely to be again. Because of that and the sign-ability issues that will come up in a few years (and arbitration next year), I think he is the only one of the five who the brass would be willing to deal in return for a really great position player. The player would have to be a star, though, because dealing Jurrjens is such a huge risk, otherwise.

Anyway, I neither want nor expect Jurrjens to go anywhere this season. I hope he wins the Cy Young award and a World Series with the Braves!

[JasonEvans]

Just so we all know, if we ever do trade JJ, part of the issue will be the salary of the guy we get back. The Braves cannot afford to take on a $10+ million dollar salary in exchange for JJ (who makes $3.25 mil this season).

The only positions the Braves would want to fill with a better bat are SS and CF. The reasonably priced players at those positions ain't getting traded, I don't think.

Anyway, I know I was the guy who threw out Reyes for JJ earlier but the more I think about it, the more I think JJ is here for at least this season and probably next year as well.

--Jason "I won't be surprised if he is tapped to start the All-Star game" Evans

[Matches]

I do not want to trade JJ. I have not given up on the team signing him after he becomes a FA, Boras or no Boras, and anyway that's 2.5 years down the road, and he's likely to be a Type A FA who would net us two 1st-round draft picks if he signed elsewhere.

Plus by that time Lowe will be off the books (after 2012), and Chipper is likely to be retired - two big contracts that'll be over.

We've dealt successfully with Boras before, see Maddux, Greg.

[COYS]

All Star Break state of the union for the Braves.

The offense has to get better, right? Uggla's shown some signs of at least being able to produce power. If he hits .215 but is able to slug .500 or more the rest of the season, that would be a huge boost. Heyward's gonna come around, too. His average has been solid since his return from injury. The power will come back soon. With Prado making his way back, you just gotta think the offense will improve, even if Freddie regresses a little bit.

The bullpen has been outstanding all season, except when Proctor pitches in any meaningful situations. We lost the series to the Phillies in large part because Proctor actually pitched when the game was on the line. Why is Proctor even on the roster? We have multiple options in the minors or could probably swing a simple trade for a veteran reliever, preferably a righty, who could do better. The starting staff may not be as battle-tested as the Phillies staff, but when our starters align (1 vs. 1, 2 vs. 2, etc.) we can hang with them, no problem. Our bullpen is probably better top to bottom . . . except when Proctor takes the hill.

The Braves bench, for the second year in a row, has been awesome. Hinske and Conrad have had their fair share of big hits. Even Ramirez has made a few big plays for the Braves, recently. With Prado returning, the bench will be a bit deeper again, even with Chipper out. If Chipper can return in good health, we'll have either McClouth or Schafer as a late innings pinch running threat, which will be nice an added asset. If the Braves could swing a deal for a right handed 4th outfielder that would allow for an outfield platoon, that could be advantageous, although it would probably require down-grading the defense in centerfield by demoting Schafer to the minors, but we'll see.

Finally, the Braves need to bump Gonzales and Schafer back down in the lineup once Prado returns. To be honest, they both should already be lower in the lineup. I can understand the logic of hoping that Schafer improves through experience at the top of the order, but Gonzales makes no sense at #2. We're talking about a guy with a sub .300 OBP who almost never walks and strikes out a lot. Don't get me wrong, I love having him on the team. His defense is outstanding and he's got enough pop to get 15-20 HR's each year while also racking up a good number of doubles . . . but he should not be the #2 hitter. Personally, I'd like to see Heyward move back to #2 after Prado with McCann, Chipper, Uggla, and Freeman all following in some order. With the right handed Prado back in the leadoff spot, it will also allow Freddie Gonzalez to tinker with righty, lefty, switch, lefty, righty, lefty combinations, which was the logic he gave for moving Gonzales to #2 in the first place (he didn't want lefty Schafer followed by lefty Heyward followed by lefty McCann).

[JasonEvans]

He may be the least favorite Brave for many fans, but here is a great article (http://www.thepostgame.com/features/201107/braves-infielder-brooks-conrad-looks-back-night-his-life-almost-fell-apart)on Brooks Conrad and the worst day of his life --


The way Brooks Conrad remembers it, and honestly it was all moving a little fast at the time, the vaguely familiar earrings were in his wife’s hand, which was shaking from anger and fear and whatever else courses through a wife’s nervous system when she's discovered another woman's earrings in her husband's travel bag.

Jessie, his darling Jessie, who'd tried so hard not to cry that afternoon when he'd lost his bearings and the baseball kept bouncing away and 53,000 people were booing and calling him a hack, her lip was quivering again and her eyes had narrowed and geez what a day this was turning into.

--Jason "hard not to root for the guy after reading that article" Evans

[JasonEvans]

So, supposedly the Mets have given Carlos Beltran a list of teams to which he might be traded because he has to approve of any trade. Among the teams on the list are the Phillies, Boston Red Sox, San Francisco Giants and New York Yankees.

Why no Braves?!?!? I think Beltran would fit very nicely into what the Braves need as he would be a major offensive boost. I guess the question has to be if he can still play CF, though Prado and Chipper have been so injury prone this year and Heyward is struggling so much he might be able to play corner OF much of the time.

I am encouraged by the apparent recent improvement in Dan uggla at the plate. Did you know that Uggs has an 11-game hitting streak going right now? He has 5 homers, 8 RBIs, and 12 runs scored during the 11-game streak and has boosted his woeful average by 20 points. If he can keep it going, I like our chances A LOT!

[Olympic Fan]

So, supposedly the Mets have given Carlos Beltran a list of teams to which he might be traded because he has to approve of any trade. Among the teams on the list are the Phillies, Boston Red Sox, San Francisco Giants and New York Yankees.

Why no Braves?!?!? I think Beltran would fit very nicely into what the Braves need as he would be a major offensive boost. I guess the question has to be if he can still play CF, though Prado and Chipper have been so injury prone this year and Heyward is struggling so much he might be able to play corner OF much of the time.



New article up on ESPN Insider saying that the Mets and Braves ARE talking about Beltran. Supposedly, the Mets want either Teheran or Minor ... some talk that the Braves might part with Minor, but Teheran is untouchable.

I'm not sure about the dimension of the deal. Minor is a young guy with a small salary who will be under team control for several more years. Not sure of Beltran's status, except that he's getting a huge contract. Supposedly, the Mets might be willing to eat some of his money to make a deal ... but is he going to be a free agent after this season?

Minor for half a season of Beltran (no matter what the financial dealing) is a bad deal. Minor for long-term Beltran, that might be worth doing.

[Jarhead]

Tonight's win was nice. I got to watch most of it. The last three innings showed off the bull pen nicely giving the reds just one hit. Then in the ninth Uggla pinch hits for Venters with score tied 4-4, two outs, and Gonzalez on second. Home run to go up 6-4, and Kimbrel comes in to pitch int the bottom of the ninth. Two strike outs and a pop fly. Nice. I'm liking the new Uggla.

[devildeac]

Tonight's win was nice. I got to watch most of it. The last three innings showed off the bull pen nicely giving the reds just one hit. Then in the ninth Uggla pinch hits for Venters with score tied 4-4, two outs, and Gonzalez on second. Home run to go up 6-4, and Kimbrel comes in to pitch int the bottom of the ninth. Two strike outs and a pop fly. Nice. I'm liking the new Uggla.

A very nice recovery indeed. He might be hitting close to his weight now:rolleyes:.

[JasonEvans]

A very nice recovery indeed. He might be hitting close to his weight now:rolleyes:.

Not quite. His official weight is listed at 207. He is batting .195.

But, he now has a 13-game hitting streak. He is hitting .348 during the streak with 6 HRs and 11 RBI. If he is even close to this good the rest of the season... gonna be a gooood team.

As for Beltran, he is in a contract year and he always plays great in contract years. So, we would be renting him for the final 2 months of the season. One would imagine that Mike Minor would be a very effective 4th or 5th starter for a cheap price for the next several years at least. That's an extremely valuable commodity. I dunno if I would give that up to a division rival in exchange for 2 months of Beltran.

I just don't know what the Braves should do. If you can tell me that Uggla and Heyward are going to be anywhere close to the players they were last year then I am not sure this team needs to add anything. After all, they do have a very nice record. Their 6 game lead in the Wild Card standings is larger than any division leader's lead in the division races. I would hate to give up an important future piece for a rental.

--Jason "don't forget, the bullpen could get even better in a month when Moylan returns" Evans

[Duvall]

Minor for half a season of Beltran (no matter what the financial dealing) is a bad deal. Minor for long-term Beltran, that might be worth doing.

If it seemed like a bad idea before, it looks even worse now. This Atlanta team has too many holes to throw away years of cost-controlled starting pitching to get less than sixty games from one good bat.

[Duvall]

McCann to the DL with a strained oblique. No short-term trades please - this season isn't worth it.

[JasonEvans]

Sometimes, even the ump just wants to go home.

That is the only way to explain the miracle that just happened. The Braves win in 19 innings on as bad a call at home plate as I think I have ever seen.

Scott Proctor was the hero -- I would have thought that was impossible.

-Jason "a win is a win" Evans

[Duvall]

Sometimes, even the ump just wants to go home.

That is the only way to explain the miracle that just happened. The Braves win in 19 innings on as bad a call at home plate as I think I have ever seen.


I really hate that one terrible call is overshadowing 19 innings of horrible umpiring.

[DUKIECB]

Sometimes, even the ump just wants to go home.

That is the only way to explain the miracle that just happened. The Braves win in 19 innings on as bad a call at home plate as I think I have ever seen.

Scott Proctor was the hero -- I would have thought that was impossible.

-Jason "a win is a win" Evans
I agree that Lugo was probably out. However, if you look at the replay that showed it from the umps perspective, it does appear that he swept the tag through the air and did not apply the glove to Lugos body. In my opinion this is on the Pirates catcher. Your main goal is to keep that run from scoring which means when you have a runner dead at the plate you don't try a sweep tag. You block the plate with everything you've got and if he had done this play would have continued.

[JasonEvans]

Home plate ump Jerry Meals, who is being ripped left and right this morning, said this (http://markbowman.mlblogs.com/2011/07/27/meals-explanation-of-his-game-ending-safe-call/)about the call --


“I saw the tag, but he looked like he oléd him and I called him safe for that. I looked at the replays and it appeared he might have got him on the shin area. I’m guessing he might have got him, but when I was out there when it happened I didn’t see a tag."

ESPN is saying that this may be the impetus to get MLB to put a replay official at every game.

-Jason "Meals is the 3rd base ump tonight-- right in front of the Pitt dugout... could get ugly fast!" Evans

[Udaman]

I read the article and expected to see a terrible, terrible call....but when I finally saw the replay - it does look like the catcher sweeps over Lugo's leg and misses him. I understand from the other angle that he did actually touch him, but I could easily see how the ump might miss that. It was 2 a.m. - the catcher should block the plate and make sure he tags the guy.

Go Braves! (though I must admit, I'm pulling hard for the Pirates in the Central....still, my ultimate loyalty is with Atlanta in the NL

[Olympic Fan]

I was watching live late last night and I was flabergasted by the call. After watching the replay half a dozen times, I can see how the ref blew it -- the Pittsburgh catch did make a mistake with the swipe tag. He got him, but only barely -- he made the play close enough to give the ump a chance to blow it.

Despite the 19 inning win, it was a pretty diastrous day for the Braves. First, we learn Chipper is hurt again -- how long this time? Frustrating after he comes back from the DL and gets two hits and a HR in his one game back. Then in the 10th inning, McCann strains an oblique (sp?) muscle trying to throw out a basestealer and he has to go on the DL. This morning Gonzales says it's not a bad injury and he thinks McCann will "only" be out the 15 days --but that's a big blow for an offensively challenged team.

FWIW, Buster Olney responded with a column this morning (insider, so I can't link) saying that this should force the Braves to trade Minor for Beltran. That's his opinion -- he admits that as of this morning, the Rangers and Giants were closer to making a deal for him. He also suggested the Braves could get BJ Upton without giving up a top prospect, but dismissed that because Upton is too inconsistent.

I don't know ... I STILL would not trade Minor for a half-season of Beltran. I wouldn't trade two top prospects for Hunter Pence (Olney's reported asking price). But I think half a season of Upton would be worth someting -- but not a top prospect.

[Duvall]

FWIW, Buster Olney responded with a column this morning (insider, so I can't link) saying that this should force the Braves to trade Minor for Beltran. That's his opinion -- he admits that as of this morning, the Rangers and Giants were closer to making a deal for him. He also suggested the Braves could get BJ Upton without giving up a top prospect, but dismissed that because Upton is too inconsistent.

I don't know ... I STILL would not trade Minor for a half-season of Beltran. I wouldn't trade two top prospects for Hunter Pence (Olney's reported asking price). But I think half a season of Upton would be worth someting -- but not a top prospect.

If the Braves couldn't think of a way to top the deeply mediocre haul the Cardinals received for Colby Rasmus, I'm pretty sure I don't want them to do anything.

[rasputin]

If the Braves couldn't think of a way to top the deeply mediocre haul the Cardinals received for Colby Rasmus, I'm pretty sure I don't want them to do anything.

I haven't seen anything about a trade the Cardinals made involving Rasmus. Do you know something I don't know?

[Duvall]

I haven't seen anything about a trade the Cardinals made involving Rasmus. Do you know something I don't know?

I shouldn't have used the past tense, but I was referring to this (http://content.usatoday.com/communities/dailypitch/post/2011/07/white-sox-trade-edwin-jackson-mark-teahen-to-blue-jays-three-way-deal-on-way/1). My bad.

[Duvall]

I shouldn't have used the past tense, but I was referring to this (http://content.usatoday.com/communities/dailypitch/post/2011/07/white-sox-trade-edwin-jackson-mark-teahen-to-blue-jays-three-way-deal-on-way/1). My bad.

Update (http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/cardinal-beat/article_0f7b1b4c-b86e-11e0-86d2-0019bb30f31a.html).

Nauseating.

[JasonEvans]

Update (http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/cardinal-beat/article_0f7b1b4c-b86e-11e0-86d2-0019bb30f31a.html).

Nauseating.

I am going to go with, "The Braves did not want a malcontent who was uncoachable like Rasmus," as the only excuse for this. Because there is no other reasonable explanation for the Braves (with a phenomenally stocked minor leagues full of medium prospects that the Cards would have killed for) not getting this guy when the Cards were just giving him away.

-Jason

[Olympic Fan]

I am going to go with, "The Braves did not want a malcontent who was uncoachable like Rasmus," as the only excuse for this. Because there is no other reasonable explanation for the Braves (with a phenomenally stocked minor leagues full of medium prospects that the Cards would have killed for) not getting this guy when the Cards were just giving him away.

-Jason

Maybe it's just me, but the more I read about Rasmus, the more he sounds like Jeff Franceour -- a talented young player who has a great debut, then slides into mediocriy because he refuses to make adjustments or listen to his coaches. Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but I'm not sorry we didn't get him. And now Beltran is going to San Francisco, so nothing to worry about there. I knew Upton a bit when he was in Durham and he was an arrogant, self-centered jerk. I really hope the Braves don't deal for him.

Another walk-off win versus the Pirates in extra innings Wednesday night -- and this one was legit, thanks to a clean bases-loaded single from David Ross. Both McCann and Schaefer on the 15-day disabled list ... I haven't heard a guess on how long Chipper will be out this time.

[JasonEvans]

MENDOZA!!!!!

Don't look now but Dan Uggla went 3-for-4 today to raise his average to .205. He is above the Mendoza line for the first time since May 16th.

Uggs is on a career-best 18 game hitting streak and has seen his average soar by more than 30 points in the past 3 weeks. Now, it is worth noting that the 18 game hitting streak has featured 13 games where he only got 1 hit and this is the first time during the streak where he has gotten more than 2 hits... so it is not like he is suddenly on FIRE, but it is a very good sign for a Braves team that desperately needs someone to step up on offense with McCann out and Chipper just a sliver of his old self.

Now, if someone can get J-Hey out of his Soph Slump, maybe we can really challenge the Phillies.

--Jason "looks like Beltran to the Giants... I am glad the Braves did not give away the farm for him" Evans

[Duvall]

I am going to go with, "The Braves did not want a malcontent who was uncoachable like Rasmus," as the only excuse for this. Because there is no other reasonable explanation for the Braves (with a phenomenally stocked minor leagues full of medium prospects that the Cards would have killed for) not getting this guy when the Cards were just giving him away.

-Jason

Perhaps, but that's the kind of thinking that leaves you with a shortstop with a .597 OPS instead of one with a .832 OPS.

[devildeac]

Maybe it's just me, but the more I read about Rasmus, the more he sounds like Jeff Franceour -- a talented young player who has a great debut, then slides into mediocriy because he refuses to make adjustments or listen to his coaches. Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but I'm not sorry we didn't get him. And now Beltran is going to San Francisco, so nothing to worry about there. I knew Upton a bit when he was in Durham and he was an arrogant, self-centered jerk. I really hope the Braves don't deal for him.

Another walk-off win versus the Pirates in extra innings Wednesday night -- and this one was legit, thanks to a clean bases-loaded single from David Ross. Both McCann and Schaefer on the 15-day disabled list ... I haven't heard a guess on how long Chipper will be out this time.

I thought I saw Chipper had a PH appearance last PM. Or did I imagine that in my AM stupor today?

[JasonEvans]

As a result of injuries to both Jordan Shafer and Nate McOut, the Braves turned to someone new tonight.

Ladies and Gentlemen, now batting leadoff and starting in center field... Jorge Constanza!"
1950

Wait... sorry. my bad... it is Jose Constanza. Apparently, no relation to the former Yankees Assistant to the Traveling Secretary.

--Jason "Constanza went 1-4 for a run and a RBI. I'll take that from my leadoff hitter every day of the week!" Evans

[devildeac]

From the AP (no plagiarism from me!;)):

"The Atlanta Braves' biggest offseason addition is finally coming up with big hits.

Dan Uggla belted a tiebreaking three-run homer in the seventh inning, Brandon Beachy combined with two relievers on a three-hitter and Atlanta beat Florida 5-0 on Friday night to end the Marlins' five-game winning streak.
Uggla extended his hitting streak to 20 games and leads Atlanta with 19 homers. He entered July with a .176 batting average but is up to .206 after going 1 for 4 against Florida."

Day-umm, he's finally hitting above the Medoza line and above his weight:rolleyes:. Seriously, his hitting streak and performance this month has been impressive. Perhaps he can cap off the month with good days at the plate today and tomorrow, too.

[JasonEvans]

So, the Phillies traded for Hunter Pence. The Braves continue to stand pat and now have Julio Lugo playing 3B with George Constanza in CF (yup, that joke will never die!). The Phillies payroll is now perilously close to luxury tax levels, a feat heretofore never accomplished by a team not owned by ESPN (with the amount of coverage they get on that network, I figure the Yanks and BoSox must both be ESPN properties). The Braves are spending maybe 60 cents for every dollar being spent by the Phillies this year. Grrrrr.

With him arbitration eligible, I suppose the Braves never really considered getting Pence. He will cost $10+ million next year after arbitration, I would think (makes $6.9 mil this season). Would the 'Stros have given him up for Mike Minor and a couple lower-level prospects? Would the Braves have even wanted him?

With the emergence of Uggla, I guess the Braves are going to hold pat and go for it with the team they have. They are nicely set up to be a contender for many years without having to worry about breaking the bank to stay there, which puts them in a somewhat unique position in baseball. The Giants and Phillies do not have as long a window ahead of them unless they want to incur massive payroll increases.

Ahh well. Just bummed to see both of our primary competitors make moves to get bats in the outfield... while the Braves call up Jerry Seinfeld's best friend.

-Jason "my biggest worry, Freeman hits 'the wall' and slumps down the stretch like many rookies do -- he's been our most consistent bat this year not named McCann" Evans

[Duvall]

With him arbitration eligible, I suppose the Braves never really considered getting Pence. He will cost $10+ million next year after arbitration, I would think (makes $6.9 mil this season). Would the 'Stros have given him up for Mike Minor and a couple lower-level prospects?


Probably not (http://twitter.com/#!/Ken_Rosenthal/statuses/97138560003608576).

The Phillies paid a steep price for Pence. Don't think it would have made sense for the Braves to outbid it.

[JasonEvans]

Probably not (http://twitter.com/#!/Ken_Rosenthal/statuses/97138560003608576).

The Phillies paid a steep price for Pence. Don't think it would have made sense for the Braves to outbid it.

The 'Stros wanted 2 of our top 4 (studly) pitching prospects... uhhh, pass!

The Phillies gave up their top two prospects from an organization that had already been stripped fairly bare by other recent deals. Then again, the Phils can spend out the wazoo to get free agents and keep players so homegrown talent for the next few years may not matter as much to them.

Lets just get healthy and get to 93 or so wins. The playoffs are largely a "who got hot at the right time" game that bares only a small passing resemblance to the regular season anyway.

-Jason "Jorge Constanza was batting .300+ with lots of steals at AAA, maybe he will be the CF answer" Evans

[JasonEvans]

The Braves got Michael Bourn from the Astros for Jordan Shafer and what I think are 3 relatively unimpressive minor league pitching prospects.

Bourne is a legit leadoff hitter and a very good defensive centerfielder. He gets on base, steals bases, and scores runs.

He is making a cheap $4.4 mil this year and has one more year of arbitration eligibility before he becomes a free agent. I would imagine he would get somewhere around $6-7 mil next season, which would be good value for a player like him.

This is EXACTLY what the Braves needed and they did it without giving up anything of real value. Bourn is certainly a significant upgrade over Shafer... even before Shafer got injured.

Props to the Bravos management!!

-Jason "with Uggs hitting like hsi old self and Freeman going great the past month, this lcub is gonna be scary good... especially when McCann returns" Evans

[JasonEvans]

The three minor league pitchers are Brett Oberholtzer, Paul Clemens and Juan Abreu. I did a bit of research and it looks like Oberholtzer is the best of the lot, a decent starter this year at AA. But, in the Braves organization, with the depth of starting pitching the Bravos have, it is hard to see him being someone who was part of the team's long-range plans. He is considered one of the tops of the Braves second tier pitching prospects... but he's in the second tier. Abreu is having a good year at AAA as a reliever, but -- again -- the Braves are stocked with excellent relievers. Clemens is similarly not a guy who looked like he would ever make the Braves big-league roster. I don't see giving up these guys as being anything meaningful for the team.

In return, we get Michael Bourn, hitting .300+, the top base stealer in the NL, and a gold-glove in centerfield. Me like!!

There seems to be some thought out there that the team needs to deal for another bullpen arm -- I guess a middle-reliever type as we have the amazing Eric'O, Venters, and Kimbrell as perhaps the strongest back end of the bullpen in all of baseball. Not sure I see another reliever as all that important with Moylan coming back any way.

-Jason "here's a question-- who is the front-runner for Rookie of the Year in the NL, Freeman or Kimbrell?" Evans

[Olympic Fan]

Great pickup -- a first-rate defensive centerfielder and a quality leadoff man (.363 OBP and 39 steals in 47 attempts).

And, as Jason mentioned, the Braves get him without giving up any of their big-four pitching prospects.

It's amazing to me that the Astros would give up Bourn so cheaply, when they demanded so much for Hunter Pence (supposedly they demanded two of the Braves' Big Four young arms and two other secondary prospects).

How much difference is there between Bourn and Pence?

Well, let's see:

They are the same age (28).

Bourn has more defensive value as a CF (although Pence is an excellent RF).

Bourn is a better baserunner (two-time NL stolen base champ and leading the league this year).

Bourn has a better batting average.

Bourne has more hits ... they have the same number of doubles and Bourn has more triples.

Bourne has a better OBP.

Pence has more power -- 11 to 1 in home runs. That's why he has a better SLUG and a slightly better OPS.

Pence has a slightly better contract -- both are arbitratiion eligible in 2012, but Bourn becomes a FA in 2013, with Pence it's 2014.

I can see where you make the argument that Pence would have been a SLIGHTLY better pickup, but the difference between them is not nearly as significant as the huge difference in the asking price.

For the Braves -- who can use an upgrade at CF and at the leadoff spot, Bourn is actually a better fit that Pence.

Kudos to the Atlanta management on this one!

NOTE: One downside to the Bourn deal ... his agent is Scott Boras, so IO wouldn't count on seeing him in Atlanta after the 2012 season.

[JasonEvans]

The consensus on twitter seems to be that the Braves committed highway robbery with this deal. Among the tweets I have read in the past few minutes--


Jeff Passan - Something to consider: Tack on Michael Bourn's SB to his total bases and SLG% jumps from .403 to .494.

Jeff Passan - I'd say I'm stunned the Astros didn't get one potential impact piece in return for Michael Bourn, but then I remembered it's the Astros.

Houston Traded Michael Bourn To Atlanta (aka the greatest deal in Braves' history)

The #Braves have stolen 163 bases since the start of 2009. Michael Bourn alone has 152 in this timeframe.

NotSportsCenter - With the trade of Michael Bourn, the #Astros have been officially designated a AAA team.

I'm amazed how much lower the price tag was for Michael Bourn than Hunter Pence. All things being equal, I'd much rather have Bourn.

Church of Baseball - My favorite post about the Bourn trade: "Braves call up OF Michael Bourn from AAA Houston"

From a Houston Fan - I need a puppy. And some ice cream. Or better yet, some puppy flavored ice cream. I'm going to miss Michael Bourn.

-Jason "I agree with OF, this is a better fit than Pense and we gave up NADA" Evans

[Duvall]

-Jason "I agree with OF, this is a better fit than Pense and we gave up NADA" Evans

NADA is a bit strong; the Braves did give up three solid prospects. But it does seem like a good deal, with a significantly lower price than the Astros sought and received for Pence.

[COYS]

NADA is a bit strong; the Braves did give up three solid prospects. But it does seem like a good deal, with a significantly lower price than the Astros sought and received for Pence.

I really think this is a great deal. We didn't give up nothing, but we have incredibly deep pitching in the farm system and kept our top four prospects, which is pretty remarkable, if you ask me. We also kept our current rotation in tact (no movement for Jurrjens or Lowe). And we still got an impact player. Bourn will make our pitching better by providing a major upgrade in CF defense, something Pence couldn't do. Also, while Pence has more power, he's certainly not a big time slugger. Considering how perfectly Bourn fits in with the Braves (Leadoff hitter and plus-defensive CF), I am shocked the Braves didn't have to give up anything of significant value. Schafer was probably in need of new scenery considering how many times his career stopped and started in Atlanta and, as already mentioned, our farm system is stacked with pitching talent (and it still is). Plus, even if Bourn leaves after next season, we'll have him for the end of his prime years (he'll be 30 when he leaves, which is generally pretty old for guys who rely almost exclusively on speed for their entire offensive game), and we'll nab an extra draft pick, as well. In the short term, the Braves can now roll out a lineup that makes sense and manufacture runs in pitching duels, which is key for a team that is built on it's pitching. This was a great move by Wren.

[devildeac]

Well that looks like a lousy box score with 13 H and 1 R with 10 LOB. Sunday stats have the Braves 4th in the NL with an ERA of 3.27 behind SF, PHL and SD. That represents an increase of about .25 runs/game from a month or two ago. BA is up to .242 from .236 (or .238) earlier this month, still 4th from the bottom in the NL. The trade sounds like a great one.

[COYS]

More on the Bourn deal from Schoenfield over at ESPN:http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/14409/bourn-a-more-valuable-player-than-pence

[northernduke]

I can't believe we didn't give up a top 10 prospect in the organization for Bourn!!! I hope we plan to make a competitive offer in arbitration if he works out for us down the stretch. I like McLouth coming off the bench if we need a pinch runner, fielder or bat.

I'm still in shock of this deal...

[DUKIECB]

Well we made the trade everyone loves, Uggla is finally resembling his old self and now the pitching falls apart. Hopefully it's just a fluke. Don't look now but we are only up by 1.5 games in the wildcard race. Just a week ago it was 5 games!

[BlueDevilBaby]

Well we made the trade everyone loves, Uggla is finally resembling his old self and now the pitching falls apart. Hopefully it's just a fluke. Don't look now but we are only up by 1.5 games in the wildcard race. Just a week ago it was 5 games!

Thanks to my Nats! Look out, here we come. Shocked they beat Lowe like that last night.

[devildeac]

Thanks to my Nats! Look out, here we come. Shocked they beat Lowe like that last night.

Not so much to me. He has an ERA closer to 5 than 4 by now, IIRC.

Lotta ball to play yet but are folks in Atlanta getting their meat thermometers ready yet?:rolleyes:

[COYS]

Not so much to me. He has an ERA closer to 5 than 4 by now, IIRC.

Lotta ball to play yet but are folks in Atlanta getting their meat thermometers ready yet?:rolleyes:

It is bad timing to have McCann and Chipper out at the same moment the starting pitching hits a bit of a rough patch. On the other hand, while there have been more stinkers by the starters, recently, the failure to win games in which we get 13 hits and hold the opposition to 3 runs is much worse, in my opinion. I'm hoping the offense is able to become more consistent. We certainly made the right steps today. A stolen base from Bourn helped get a run in the 1st, which is a rare sight in ATL since the departure of Furcal. Uggla and Freeman are doing their part to carry the offense while we wait on Mac and Chipper to get healthy. And the core of the bullpen has been phenomenal. O'Flaherty, Venters, and Kimbrel are the envy of pretty much every team in the nation while Martinez has done a great job in long relief when called upon. I'm hoping Proctor is sent packing soon, as we've got too many good arms in the minors to waste too many innings with a guy who simply can't be used in high leverage situations, anymore. Word is, Androdys Viscaino has been moved to the pen in Gwinnett so he gets used to pitching in relief. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets called up soon.

Anyway, nothing to do now but put our heads down and put together a winning streak to right the ship and give us a little space in the suddenly tight Wild Card race.

[JasonEvans]

Back to our winning ways. Beat the Nats today 6-4. Uggla was DA MAN going 2-for-4 with a homer, 2 runs scored, and 3 RBIs. His hitting streak is at 25 games and his average is up to .215. That's a 40 point improvement in his average in less than a month. Dude is on FIRE! Uggla is 34-for-96 (.354) with 11 home runs and 23 RBI during the streak. Impressive bounce-back!

-Jason "Kimbrell got his first save in like 2 weeks today -- I want him to lead the league in saves as a rookie, but Brian Wilson is 2 ahead right now" Evans

[devildeac]

Back to our winning ways. Beat the Nats today 6-4. Uggla was DA MAN going 2-for-4 with a homer, 2 runs scored, and 3 RBIs. His hitting streak is at 25 games and his average is up to .215. That's a 40 point improvement in his average in less than a month. Dude is on FIRE! Uggla is 34-for-96 (.354) with 11 home runs and 23 RBI during the streak. Impressive bounce-back!

-Jason "Kimbrell got his first save in like 2 weeks today -- I want him to lead the league in saves as a rookie, but Brian Wilson is 2 ahead right now" Evans

Hopefully, he and Venters are rested now. He was actually leading the league for a while. Hopefully they'll have leads entering the late innings unlike some recent games.

[SoCalDukeFan]

The Phillies are undefeated ( 6 and 0) with Pence.

Have the best record in baseball.

Have the best pitching in baseball.

Have Ryan Howard with a hot bat, maybe because he now has Pence batting behind him.

Braves are playing for the wild card.

Pence fits very will with the Phillies. Right handed bat in right field and next year when Ibanez either leaves or takes a paycut allows Brown/Mayberry to play left.

Phillies gave up a pitcher who seems like he could be injury prone and a first baseman who will not supplant Howard.

The importance of the baseball draft can not be overstated. You need to have real prospects so you can trade to get these guys.

SoCal

[COYS]

The Phillies are undefeated ( 6 and 0) with Pence.

Have the best record in baseball.

Have the best pitching in baseball.

Have Ryan Howard with a hot bat, maybe because he now has Pence batting behind him.

Braves are playing for the wild card.

Pence fits very will with the Phillies. Right handed bat in right field and next year when Ibanez either leaves or takes a paycut allows Brown/Mayberry to play left.

Phillies gave up a pitcher who seems like he could be injury prone and a first baseman who will not supplant Howard.

The importance of the baseball draft can not be overstated. You need to have real prospects so you can trade to get these guys.

SoCal


Luckily, I don't think any Braves fan would be considers the Wild Card a bad thing. While we had dreams of catching the Phillies, we understand that it's extremely unlikely at this point. All the things you say about Pence you can say about Bourn for the Braves except that the prospects we gave up are even lower level. The Phillies have the best starters in baseball, but the Braves have the ability to match them on any given night and have a superior bullpen as long as Proctor stays on the bench. The Braves just have to hang tough through the injuries and make it to the playoffs where anything can happen. The Braves are not dominant by any means, but the W-L record of the Phillies overstates their dominance as well. The two teams are not on different planes.

[devildeac]

Luckily, I don't think any Braves fan would be considers the Wild Card a bad thing. While we had dreams of catching the Phillies, we understand that it's extremely unlikely at this point. All the things you say about Pence you can say about Bourn for the Braves except that the prospects we gave up are even lower level. The Phillies have the best starters in baseball, but the Braves have the ability to match them on any given night and have a superior bullpen as long as Proctor stays on the bench. The Braves just have to hang tough through the injuries and make it to the playoffs where anything can happen. The Braves are not dominant by any means, but the W-L record of the Phillies overstates their dominance as well. The two teams are not on different planes.

Good analysis. I wonder how much of the pitchers' recent woes have been due to having Ross "call" the games (knowing a lot [most?] of the pitches are called from the dugout) instead of McCann. I also wonder whether Chipper's on field presence has been missed significantly, too. It is a bit worrisome now though that their prior wild card "lead" of 5-6 games is now 1-2 games. The Phils recent hot streak (7-3 last 10 games?) and Braves cool spell of 4-6 over that time has really widened that gap to 7-8 GB now, which, IIRC, was as close as 1-2 games in early to mid July.

[COYS]

Good analysis. I wonder how much of the pitchers' recent woes have been due to having Ross "call" the games (knowing a lot [most?] of the pitches are called from the dugout) instead of McCann. I also wonder whether Chipper's on field presence has been missed significantly, too. It is a bit worrisome now though that their prior wild card "lead" of 5-6 games is now 1-2 games. The Phils recent hot streak (7-3 last 10 games?) and Braves cool spell of 4-6 over that time has really widened that gap to 7-8 GB now, which, IIRC, was as close as 1-2 games in early to mid July.

That's a good point about Ross and McCann, although Ross seems to be a pretty solid catcher. I think the pitching has regressed a bit because guys like Jurrjens are seeing their BABIP average regress toward the mean (he had been really lucky on balls in play the first half of the season) while Hanson has been similarly unlucky. Jurrjens will balance out while I think that Hanson will return to ace-like status soon. Also, this is Beachy's first full season in the bigs and perhaps he's running out of steam. I hope not, but that might be the case. Also, Lowe has not been particularly good for an entire year for a while, now. I think he's still got some good games in him, but at his age, I think we also have to live with a few stinkers. It's the trade off for his experience and durability, which, as the Braves of 06-09 will tell you, is valuable in and of itself. If they are still struggling a week from now, it may be time for serious concern, but i'll give them another week to get it together before I think of this as more than a blip.

[devildeac]

This is just crazy. The Braves are playing good baseball (outside of a couple or three recent stink bombs) and would lead any other division in MLB (except AL East) but phind themselves 8.5 GB of the Phils who have won 8 in a row and are just playing insane, thrashing the Giants last PM on the road. JHey continues to struggle. What do they do when Chipper returns? Play Prado at SS? "Rest" Heyward for a couple games?

[COYS]

O'Flaherty gave up a run yesterday ending a span of over 40 scoreless innings by the three headed relief monster of Venters, O'Flaherty, and Kimbrel. The Braves have some question marks, but the back end of the bullpen is certainly not one of them.

[JasonEvans]

This is just crazy. The Braves are playing good baseball (outside of a couple or three recent stink bombs) and would lead any other division in MLB (except AL East) but phind themselves 8.5 GB of the Phils who have won 8 in a row and are just playing insane, thrashing the Giants last PM on the road. JHey continues to struggle. What do they do when Chipper returns? Play Prado at SS? "Rest" Heyward for a couple games?

The difference in being the Wild Card and winning your division is pretty negligible if you ask me.

Even with Chipper hurt, they have been "resting" JHey a lot lately because they need the hot Jorge Constanza bat in the lineup... at least that seems to be what Freddy is thinking. Obviously, we all want to see JHey break out of his soph slump and I am sure the club will continue to give him chances, but if Constanza is going to stay hot, I see no reason not to keep playing him for the time being. It is still a long way to the playoffs.

Here is the lineup I am hoping to see starting in mid-September thru late October --

1. Bourne
2. Prado
3. Freeman
4. Uggla
5. McCann
6. Chipper
7. JHey
8. Gonzalez
9. Jurjens, Hanson, Hudson (and maybe Beachy)

--Jason "do you flip-flop Chipper and Freeman?" Evans

[devildeac]

The difference in being the Wild Card and winning your division is pretty negligible if you ask me.

Even with Chipper hurt, they have been "resting" JHey a lot lately because they need the hot Jorge Constanza bat in the lineup... at least that seems to be what Freddy is thinking. Obviously, we all want to see JHey break out of his soph slump and I am sure the club will continue to give him chances, but if Constanza is going to stay hot, I see no reason not to keep playing him for the time being. It is still a long way to the playoffs.

Here is the lineup I am hoping to see starting in mid-September thru late October --

1. Bourne
2. Prado
3. Freeman
4. Uggla
5. McCann
6. Chipper
7. JHey
8. Gonzalez
9. Jurjens, Hanson, Hudson (and maybe Beachy)

--Jason "do you flip-flop Chipper and Freeman?" Evans

Nah, I like Freeman with his ~.300 BA in the 3 spot and at #7, I'd add /Costanza, especially if he stays hot. Chipper will see a lot of good pitches then, I think. Assuming, of course he not injured again.

WTH? No Lowe in the rotation down the stretch and deep into the playoffs:rolleyes:? (That is one ugly, confusing smilie!)

[COYS]

Nah, I like Freeman with his ~.300 BA in the 3 spot and at #7, I'd add /Costanza, especially if he stays hot. Chipper will see a lot of good pitches then, I think. Assuming, of course he not injured again.

WTH? No Lowe in the rotation down the stretch and deep into the playoffs:rolleyes:? (That is one ugly, confusing smilie!)

I agree with both you and Jason on everything except Costanza for Heyward. I think that Costanza has had an awesome streak and I think he may have even earned himself a spot on the bench for the playoffs. That being said, I think the Braves lineup last year proves that at the end of the day, you need your stars to be stars to make a run in the playoffs. Costanza's performance is similar to Conrad's performance in '09 and then last year in that he has provided surprising pop and (in a way very different from Conrad) good defense as well. However, over a period of extended at bats, I think Costanza is almost guaranteed to come back down to earth, just as Conrad did. Also, despite Conrad's great play, every Braves fan would have taken a slumping Martin Prado at 2b rather than a hot Brooks Conrad if we had the opportunity to replay that 1st round series last year. Fast forward to the playoffs this year (knock on wood), and Costanza will be facing the best pitchers on the Giants and potentially Phillies staffs. We are going to need the future cornerstone of the franchise. Getting his struggles worked out now needs to be a priority for the coaching staff. A "rest" here or there might be fine, but I hope it doesn't become habit. I'd rather he go back down to the minors to work on his mechanics for a week and come back up ready to play everyday than start relying on a platoon. Consider that despite Heyward's steadily declining numbers and Uggla's fast rising numbers, Heyward STILL holds a slim lead over Uggla in OPS (.716 to .720). The Braves stuck by Freeman for two months when he struggled mightily . . . and this was before Freeman had ever shown any sign that he could be a great major league hitter. The Braves stuck by Uggla despite an unfathomably terrible slump that lasted three months. The Braves have reaped the rewards for this patience now. When healthy, Heyward is a force (he was a force at the beginning of the year before his shoulder worsened and he was unbelievable last year when healthy over the first six weeks of the season). If Heyward is not healthy, get him healthy (in my opinion, the Braves completely mishandled his shoulder injury earlier this year). If they want to try a week in the minors, send him down. However, at the end of the day Costanza will eventually show why he's been a career minor leaguer up to this point (just as Conrad did) and Heyward will show why he was ranked ahead of Strasburg as the top prospect in baseball just a year and a half ago. Please don't get me wrong. I love Costanza. I hope he is able to follow Prado's course of going from fringe prospect/bench player to full time major leaguer (althouth Prado was much younger when he was called up). But we need to get Heyward right. Maybe the home run he hit will spark him. However, I don't think a platoon or frequently "rest" will do much for his confidence or help him get out of his slump.

[JasonEvans]

Uggla has a hit tonight already (Braves currently leading 8-2 in the 6th) pushing his streak to 29 games (I think). Dude is batting .221, 50 points higher than he was a month ago. Is it possible for someone to bat less than .230 and have a 30 game hitting streak? We should find out tomorrow ;)

--Jason "good to get runs with Lowe on the mound-- cause he is bound to give up runs, that's for sure!" Evans

[COYS]

--Jason "good to get runs with Lowe on the mound-- cause he is bound to give up runs, that's for sure!" Evans

And if Lowe doesn't, Proctor will. Kimbrel had to come in and lay down the law to wrap it up. Two batters faced. Two K's. Save number 35. Impressive.

Constanza replaces Heyward a day after Heyward hits a homer (although he was switched out in a double switch in the 7th inning, I believe). Constanza continues his hot hitting, going 2-4 tonight. However, I still question the wisdom of continuing to sit Heyward when he may have gained a little momentum in breaking out of his slump with the homer yesterday. Constanza is making me look like a fool by playing well, but I'm still skeptical of the wisdom of sitting a player like Heyward (especially the day after he gets a big hit) for Constanza. At some point, Constanza will come back down to earth (his batting average for balls in play, BABIP, is an insane .433. The league average is around .300). While he's shown he can hit for a .300 average in the minor leagues, there is no way he'll be able to maintain his ridiculous numbers. Even his home run, while impressive, was also way out of character. He had hit a TOTAL of 6 HR in his entire minor league career (parts of 8 seasons) before two days ago. He was never a terribly high strikeout guy, but he also doesn't walk a terribly large amount, either. Right now, he's hitting them where they ain't, so to speak. But that will change. I feel badly writing this considering how well he's done for the Braves and how much I like his hustle and energy. However, he simply is not capable of doing what Heyward can do nor is he capable of sustaining this hot streak. His OPS in the minors this year was .706, behind Heyward's disappointing OPS of .716 this season. While that doesn't account for Constanza's stolen base totals, it does illustrate that a fully healthy Constanza playing against AAA competition has not necessarily had much better of a year overall than the horribly slumping Heyward. If Constanza plays at the expense of Heyward breaking out of his slump, the Braves will be disappointed come playoff time.

[JasonEvans]

Don't look now, but the Wild Card lead is back to 4.5 games ;)

To be clear, I was not advocating Constanza playing over Heyward long-term. I merely thought that it would be ok to ride the hot bat of the kid for a week or two. But, I want Heyward to get at bats, lots of them, during that time and I want him to go back to being the everyday RFer very soon. The club has shown and should continue to show confidence in him.

And I agree that we will need him out there in the playoffs... as well as for the next several years (at least).

-Jason "the nice part about the little mini-bullpen implosion last night is that it gave CK another save ;) " Evans

[Channing]

Given his solid hitting the last 3 or 4 games this may not make as much sense, but I was wondering whether Fredi has considered letting Prado play for Gonzales at SS. That would allow Heyward and Constanza to play in the OF with Bourne (can you imagine how much ground that OF would cover).

I like Constanza and i like his approach to hitting. He does the Ichiro on occasion where he starts running before making contact, making it difficult to throw him out on even a routine groundball.

Whatever happens, it is great to see a Braves lineup with such great speed.

[COYS]

Given his solid hitting the last 3 or 4 games this may not make as much sense, but I was wondering whether Fredi has considered letting Prado play for Gonzales at SS. That would allow Heyward and Constanza to play in the OF with Bourne (can you imagine how much ground that OF would cover).

I like Constanza and i like his approach to hitting. He does the Ichiro on occasion where he starts running before making contact, making it difficult to throw him out on even a routine groundball.

Whatever happens, it is great to see a Braves lineup with such great speed.

The only thing I'd say about this is that Gonzales plays outstanding defense at short, which is incredibly valuable in its own right. Constanza seems to have earned a spot on the team, but I think that having him be a pinch hitter/runner in late innings situations with the occasional start will probably prolong his hot streak rather than end it.

Jason, sorry if I misinterpreted your post about Constanza/Heyward usage. It's nice to see Constanza's hot bat in the lineup. Still, I can't help but wonder if it is a mistake to sit Heyward the day after a home run . . . that is unless he's still not completely healthy (which is something that I suspect might be the case). Most egregious, though, is that Proctor is still pitching for the Braves. Last night has got to be the final straw. I think it's time for Vizcaino to come up from AAA . . . or basically any other pitcher, for that matter. I was critical of Gonzalez' over usage of Venters in the first half of the season so I have to applaud the fact that the star relievers have been managed significantly better. However, the "innings eating" relief corps should no longer include Proctor, who is just not cutting it as a major league pitcher, anymore.

[JasonEvans]

And with a hard grounder deep into the hole and some hustle up the line, Dan Uggla gets an infield hit in the 5th to extend his streak to 30 games.

If those stat hounds at Baseball Prospectus or some such organization would do a bit of research, I guaran-freaking-tee you that no one in baseball history has put up a 30 game hitting streak with a batting average below .225.

(edit- turns out they have done some similar research. According to this article (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-ugglasstreak), Uggla's .173 average at the start of his 30-game streak is the lowest for any batter to start a streak of that length since at least 1918 - I am guessing they don't have records from before 1918)

Can you win comeback player of the year if your second half of the season was exponentially better than your first half? ;)

--Jason "best part about Scott Proctor-- he makes $750k this season, that's probably about what Freeman, Venters, and Kimbrell make COMBINED!!" Evans

[COYS]

And with a hard grounder deep into the hole and some hustle up the line, Dan Uggla gets an infield hit in the 5th to extend his streak to 30 games.

If those stat hounds at Baseball Prospectus or some such organization would do a bit of research, I guaran-freaking-tee you that no one in baseball history has put up a 30 game hitting streak with a batting average below .225.

(edit- turns out they have done some similar research. According to this article (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-ugglasstreak), Uggla's .173 average at the start of his 30-game streak is the lowest for any batter to start a streak of that length since at least 1918 - I am guessing they don't have records from before 1918)

Can you win comeback player of the year if your second half of the season was exponentially better than your first half? ;)

--Jason "best part about Scott Proctor-- he makes $750k this season, that's probably about what Freeman, Venters, and Kimbrell make COMBINED!!" Evans

And Craig Kimbrel gets yet another save (although he manages to not strike anyone out, which is quite a feat for the Marlins to pull off). Freeman has had an amazing year, but when it comes to the ROY race, I would think that Kimbrel has got to be at the top. Freeman is a good hitting first basemen who is having an excellent first year. Kimbrel is having a phenomenal year for a closer, whether rookie or 10 year vet. He is simply one of the best relievers in baseball. And he's done all this while pitching in the highest of pressure situations. The Braves faith in Kimbrel has been rewarded as after his 5th (and to this point, last) blown save a few months ago (that's right, he hasn't blown a save in a few months), they used Venters once or twice to close a game. I was even one who advocated going with Kimbrel when the 9th inning lineup was predominantly right-handed and going with Venters when the 9th inning lineup was predominantly left handed. Well, Kimbrel strikes out everyone and neither righties nor lefties can hit him. I'd list all his stats, but it's worth marveling at them yourself here (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/k/kimbrcr01.shtml). This has got to be in the running for best rookie season by a reliever ever, if he can keep it up (knock on wood). He has a good chance to pass Nefatali Feliz (the former Braves prospect who was traded to Texas in the Teixiera deal) rookie record of 42 saves, set just last year. The Teixeira deal is justifiably criticized by Braves fans. However, we are lucky enough to have Kimbrel step in and make us forget about Feliz.

[JasonEvans]

He has a good chance to pass Nefatali Feliz (the former Braves prospect who was traded to Texas in the Teixiera deal) rookie record of 42 saves, set just last year. The Teixeira deal is justifiably criticized by Braves fans. However, we are lucky enough to have Kimbrel step in and make us forget about Feliz.

I believe Feliz had 40 saves last year, not 42.

Also, here is an article (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/Blown-save-raises-questions-about-Rangers-8217-?urn=mlb-wp15257) from just a couple days ago questioning how long the slumping Feliz will remain as the Ranger's closer.

Of course, it is worth noting that the Texiera trade also included the Braves giving up Elvis Andrus (starting SS batting .278 this year with 30+ SBs), Matt Harrison (starting pitcher with 10 wins this year and a 3.08 ERA), and Jarrod Saltalamachia (platoon C with BoSox with 11 homers).

-Jason "the Texiera trade is probably the worst in Braves history" Evans

[dukeblue1206]

http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-braves-blog/2011/08/10/braves-release-proctor-call-up-flamethrower-vizcaino/

Finally they let Proctor go and call up one of the big 4.

[devildeac]

The only thing I'd say about this is that Gonzales plays outstanding defense at short, which is incredibly valuable in its own right. Constanza seems to have earned a spot on the team, but I think that having him be a pinch hitter/runner in late innings situations with the occasional start will probably prolong his hot streak rather than end it.

Jason, sorry if I misinterpreted your post about Constanza/Heyward usage. It's nice to see Constanza's hot bat in the lineup. Still, I can't help but wonder if it is a mistake to sit Heyward the day after a home run . . . that is unless he's still not completely healthy (which is something that I suspect might be the case). Most egregious, though, is that Proctor is still pitching for the Braves. Last night has got to be the final straw. I think it's time for Vizcaino to come up from AAA . . . or basically any other pitcher, for that matter. I was critical of Gonzalez' over usage of Venters in the first half of the season so I have to applaud the fact that the star relievers have been managed significantly better. However, the "innings eating" relief corps should no longer include Proctor, who is just not cutting it as a major league pitcher, anymore.


http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-braves-blog/2011/08/10/braves-release-proctor-call-up-flamethrower-vizcaino/

Finally they let Proctor go and call up one of the big 4.
From the fingertips of COYS to Braves management's ears. Well done. Does Jason Evans get partial credit on this one or does COYS get all the pitchforks?

[Olympic Fan]

I've got to admit I'm fascinated by Uggla's streak. Amazingly, the guy was hitting .171 when his streak started July 5th with a 2-for-2 day against Colorado. Now he's hit in 30 straight games(as of Monday night) and raised his average to .220.

Has there ever been a guy with a 30-game hitting streak batting .220?

Durinjg the streak, I count Uggla with three 3-hit games, five 2-hit games and an astonishing 22 1-hit games. I wish I had a place to check and see how many of his games were extended by infield hits (like the one last night).

Overall in the streak, he's got 41 hits in 119 at bats -- which comes out to .345 ... which is actaully amazingly low for a streak of this length.

[devildeac]

And with a hard grounder deep into the hole and some hustle up the line, Dan Uggla gets an infield hit in the 5th to extend his streak to 30 games.

If those stat hounds at Baseball Prospectus or some such organization would do a bit of research, I guaran-freaking-tee you that no one in baseball history has put up a 30 game hitting streak with a batting average below .225.

(edit- turns out they have done some similar research. According to this article (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-ugglasstreak), Uggla's .173 average at the start of his 30-game streak is the lowest for any batter to start a streak of that length since at least 1918 - I am guessing they don't have records from before 1918)

Can you win comeback player of the year if your second half of the season was exponentially better than your first half? ;)

--Jason "best part about Scott Proctor-- he makes $750k this season, that's probably about what Freeman, Venters, and Kimbrell make COMBINED!!" Evans


I've got to admit I'm fascinated by Uggla's streak. Amazingly, the guy was hitting .171 when his streak started July 5th with a 2-for-2 day against Colorado. Now he's hit in 30 straight games(as of Monday night) and raised his average to .220.

Has there ever been a guy with a 30-game hitting streak batting .220?

Durinjg the streak, I count Uggla with three 3-hit games, five 2-hit games and an astonishing 22 1-hit games. I wish I had a place to check and see how many of his games were extended by infield hits (like the one last night).

Overall in the streak, he's got 41 hits in 119 at bats -- which comes out to .345 ... which is actaully amazingly low for a streak of this length.

Jason did some research on this a day or two ago. Pretty amazing. I'm not that amazed by the .345 during the streak. After all, it's more than 2X his BA prior to that this season:rolleyes:. Actually, I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry at that factoid.

[COYS]

I believe Feliz had 40 saves last year, not 42.

Also, here is an article (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/Blown-save-raises-questions-about-Rangers-8217-?urn=mlb-wp15257) from just a couple days ago questioning how long the slumping Feliz will remain as the Ranger's closer.

Of course, it is worth noting that the Texiera trade also included the Braves giving up Elvis Andrus (starting SS batting .278 this year with 30+ SBs), Matt Harrison (starting pitcher with 10 wins this year and a 3.08 ERA), and Jarrod Saltalamachia (platoon C with BoSox with 11 homers).

-Jason "the Texiera trade is probably the worst in Braves history" Evans

Yeah, I agree with you on the Teixeira deal. Andrus hurts as we have no long term replacement for Gonzales. Saltalamachia would still be blocked by Chipper and Ross has been an incredible backup, although it would have been nice to trade Salty for a player who have made a lasting impact. The JD Drew trade also really hurt the Braves, as Adam Wainwright would have been a nice player to have had in the rotation during our lean pitching years from 2006-2009. We may have even made the playoffs in 2008 if Wainwright had been on the team.

As for Feliz's numbers, that was my mistake. I knew he held the rookie record, glanced at his career totals and subtracted his saves from this season, giving me 42. I should have been more thorough and realized that he would still qualify as a rookie last year even if he pitched a few innings the year before when he earned two more saves. Feliz's raw numbers were at least as impressive as Kimbrel's this year, except for strikeout totals. He's definitely come back down to earth this year. Hopefully Kimbrel will stay just as unhittable.

[devildeac]

31 straight now with a 2-2 start and 2 RBIs. :D

[JasonEvans]

I wish I had a place to check and see how many of his games were extended by infield hits (like the one last night).

Overall in the streak, he's got 41 hits in 119 at bats -- which comes out to .345 ... which is actaully amazingly low for a streak of this length.

When he extended the streak to 30 with the infield hit, I recall that Braves' announcers saying that it was his 9th infield hit in the streak. I don't know how many of his 9 infield hits came in games where he had only 1 hit, but I bet it is at least 4 or 5... at least.

There is little question that the streak -- now at 31 -- is very much reliant on luck. But, Uggs had like zero luck for the first 3 months of the season so he is due for some bounces to go his way. Heck, he could have another few weeks of crazy luck and still be net negative luck on the season I suspect ;)

--Jason "when do hitting streaks become major national news-- around 35?" Evans

[COYS]

http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-braves-blog/2011/08/10/braves-release-proctor-call-up-flamethrower-vizcaino/

Finally they let Proctor go and call up one of the big 4.

I'm sorry for Proctor the person as he seems like a really great guy. But this is good news for the Braves overall, even if Vizcaino couldn't quite seal the deal last night.

Heyward goes 0-5 after sitting for a bit. I'm in the play Heyward camp 100%. However, I'd rather see him either play everyday to work through his slump, be sent to the minors to play everyday to work through his slump, or possibly placed on the DL if he is simply not getting healthy. Constanza has been nice, but if Uggla's been lucky during his hitting streak, Constanza has been lucky on a whole other level. His BABIP now sits at .417. I'm glad he's been hot and I root for the guy, but it is a matter of time before his groundball singles become groundball outs. Come on back to us, Heyward!

[JasonEvans]

Constanza has been lucky on a whole other level. His BABIP now sits at .417. I'm glad he's been hot and I root for the guy, but it is a matter of time before his groundball singles become groundball outs.

I am a bit confused about BABIP and its value as a stat. Player A is really seeing the ball well and hitting a ton of hard balls. Player B is just off and hitting lots of weak grounders or easy fly balls. A is clearly going to have a better BABIP than B... and yet the statistics folks out there would tell us that A is just luckier than B.

I looked at Chipper Jones' career. In 2008 he led the NL in batting with a .364 average. His BABIP that year was .383. The next season, Chipper slumped to a .264 average and his BABIP was .287. There was about a 100 point difference in BABIP each season and a 100 point difference in batting averages. Is that supposed to reflect a really lucky season and then a really unlucky one? Won't the league leaders in hitting have high BABIP virtually every season?

One more thing-- lets say Player A is just murdering the ball. Murdering it so much that he is hitting homeruns left and right. In one week, he hits 8 homers and has 2 other hits. He also hits into 8 other outs. His BABIP for the week would be .200... a really unlucky week according to the experts. But the dude hit 8 homers (3 of which barely cleared the fence). He had a phenomenally lucky week in my book!

And what about Barry Bonds in 2001? His BABIP was a fairly poor .266 (the league average is generally around .300, I believe). But that is because so many of Barry's balls landed in the bleachers (or McCovey Cove). His overall batting average for the season was an excellent .328 thanks to the 71 dingers he hit. Was that a lucky or unlucky season for the big steroid freak?

Someone explain to me how BABIP measures something significantly different from batting average for hitters, cause I just don't see it.

--Jason "Billy Beane would have fired me a long time ago, eh?" Evans

[Channing]

I'm with Jason. BABIP might be an interesteding metric, but it also fails to take into account a player's speed and approach to hitting. Constanza looks to be more than willing to try and slap the ball around and leg out infield hits. Someone like Heyward, who is struggling, seems to be trying to pull everything, resulting in a lot of lazy pop ups. They both may get tehir bat on the ball a roughly equal amount, but Constanza is going to get many more hits for having a much more mature approach to hitting.

[JasonEvans]

Not much drama in Uggs quest for the hitting streak tonight. As the leadoff batter in the 2nd inning he hit a homerun of Carlos Zambrano.

That gives him 32 games in a row with a hit. Time for some perspective.



He now has the longest hitting streak in the 40+ year history of the Atlanta Braves.
This is the longest streak in the majors since Chase Utley's 35 game streak 5 years ago.
Uggla's streak is the 22nd longest in baseball history.


-Jason "this... is.... fun!!!" Evans

[COYS]

Constanza is fast making me eat my words. He is having a dream first two weeks in the majors. And I second Jason with the UGGGGLLLLAAA. The dude is just in the zone right now.

Real quick note about BABIP, however. BABIP ignores strikeouts and homeruns. The most elite hitters will actually have a higher batting average than BABIP if a significant source of their hits are home runs and if their homeruns out-weigh their strikeouts. Pujols falls into this category. As Channing mentioned, Constanza does make stuff happen with his legs by putting his bat on the ball and using his wheels. Fast players (especially guys like Ichiro), usually have better than average BABIP precisely because they beat out throws and make stuff happen, however, BABIP almost always averages out after a while. Constanza had a BABIP around .350 for the past three minor league seasons, which is good. However, his lack of homers (tonight notwithstanding) kept his overall batting average right around .300 and his OPS around .700. This is, of course, against minor league pitching. Right now, he has been able to make stuff happen by getting the bat on the ball, but his BABIP of over .400 shows that he is having enough luck to "hit 'em where they ain't," as they say. Eventually his BABIP will come back down at least to where it was against minor league competition and possibly lower since defenses are improved in the majors. Remember that his .706 minor league OPS this year is just about equal to Heyward's major league OPS this year despite how much Heyward has struggled. Constanza is having a killer few weeks, but it is unrealistic for him to continue at this rate as it would mean that not only is he remaining extremely lucky with his BABIP, but he's also continuing to hit with previously never-seen power. Also, Constanza could continue to hit this well (meaning he continues to make exactly the same contact he's been making), but his luck with balls in play will still decrease as he gets less lucky. It is pretty much guaranteed to move closer to .350.

I don't want to sound like I don't want Constanza to succeed, because that is not true. The Braves have been playing great ball and it's a lot of fun to watch. However, Constanza remaining this hot for the remainder of the season is less likely to happen than Heyward figuring things out and I worry that the more time Heyward spends neither in the minors working things out nor playing everyday, the farther he will fall. That said, if the Braves decide to go with Constanza the rest of the way, then I hope he defies the odds.

[COYS]

Just got the tweet from Dave O'Brien with the AJC: http://twitter.com/intent/user?screen_name=ajcbraves. I am very sorry to hear this. Despite the fact that I did not have the privilege of hearing some of the other legendary broadcasters of the game, I am certain that Ernie Johnson has got to have been one of the very best broadcasters ever to cover baseball. My best wishes to his family.

[Olympic Fan]

Not much drama in Uggs quest for the hitting streak tonight. As the leadoff batter in the 2nd inning he hit a homerun of Carlos Zambrano.

That gives him 32 games in a row with a hit. Time for some perspective.



He now has the longest hitting streak in the 40+ year history of the Atlanta Braves.
This is the longest streak in the majors since Chase Utley's 35 game streak 5 years ago.
Uggla's streak is the 22nd longest in baseball history.


-Jason "this... is.... fun!!!" Evans

Uggla finished with two home runs and a 3-for-3 night that raised his average all the way up to .229!

But that wasn't the real drama of the night. After giving up a three-run homer to Chipper and the two solo shots to Uggla (plus a homer by Freddie Freeman), Carlos Zambrano went off his nut. First, he was ejected in the fifth inning for throwing at Chipper ... he was laughing as he left the field. When the game was over, he had cleared out his locker and disappeared. He left a message with clubhouse personnel that he is considering retirement:

http://espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/story/_/id/6857967/chicago-cubs-carlos-zambrano-ejected-mulling-retirement

[JasonEvans]

Uggs already has 2 more hits tonight. The streak goes to 33. Oh, and he hit another homerun.

It is not even August 15th yet, but I am all ready to predict NL Player of the Month for August... Dan Uggla!

Uggla is now batting .377 (49 for 130) with 15 homers and 32 RBIs during the 33 game streak.

to put those 49 hits into perspective, Uggs had 55 hits in his first 86 games of 2011.

-Jason "he has 12 homers in his last 27 games... that's sick" Evans

[JasonEvans]

6 IP, 5 runs allowed, 10 hits allowed...

So, how high does Lowe's ERA have to go, how bad does his WHIP have to get for us to get him out of the rotation?

He is now 7-11 on the season for a team that is more than 20 games over .500. I am sorry, but that really takes some work.

When Jurjens comes back, lets move Lowe to long freaking relief and just put Minor into the 5th starter role full-time. I swear, if Freddy gives Lowe a start in the playoffs I will lose my mind! The worst part, of course, is that we have to pay this over-the-hill guy another $15 million next year!!

--Jason "what are the odds, if we put Lowe on waivers, that someone would claim him and his fat freaking contract?" Evans

[throatybeard]

As I understand it, BABIP is really more about evaluating pitchers than hitters. It explains that, voodoo beliefs of traditional baseball fans aside, other than perhaps a general ratio of ground balls to fly balls aided by throwing low, pitchers can't really do anything to make the ball do a certain thing once it's hit into play. So take Glavine and Maddux. Love those guys. But in the 1990s, the announcers would say things like "Glavine induced the hitter to hit into a double play" every time there was a 643, as though it were a simple fact. That doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

If every 643 or 463 Pujols hit into this year were due to the dastardly wiles of the opposing pitcher, they'd be in the HOF in 2022, not him.

What follows is a mangling of Moneyball from memory, which is a well-intentioned but very slight mangling of SABRmetrics. There was a cat named Voros McCracken. And he couldn't understand for the life of him how Maddux got roughed up in 2000 and not in 1999. Or maybe I've got the years backward. It doesn't matter. Two years, same basic Maddux, same late-peak part of his career. Lots more hits off him in one season than the other. So Voros explored two stats, BABIP, and DIPS, or Defense Independent Pitching Statistic. There are only three major stats to explain what the pitcher does that the defense has no part in. (Baseball is wonderful in that, rather than two major components, O and D, it has three, hitting, pitching, and D). DIPS include HRs allowed, Ks, and BBs. Excepting the dropped third strike, the defense is involved in none of those, more or less. And McCracken looked at DIPS as a combo of those three, and isolated what wasn't part of them. It turns out the year everyone tagged Maddux, his BABIP was much higher.

It turns out BABIP is basically random. Someone upthread, I didn't notice who, said JJ has an unusually low BABIP this year. BABIP tends to regress to the mean. What that means is, if JJ has a great BABIP in the first part of the season, you'd really ought not count on it staying that low. His ERA will probably go up in the second half, not because he's starting to suck, but just because balls are falling ten feet in front of the left fielder and not in the LF's glove. When you aggregate everything that's going on, it's really pretty random whether the hit ball in play is in the gap or in the LF's glove. Statistically. It does help to have a CF like Mays or early Andruw, but not as much as you'd think. Although defense is sort of the last frontier of SABR.

The use I see for BABIP with hitters is sort of the mirror situation. You know when a guy is smoking the ball but it always seems to be an L9 or an F8 for a week or so? Statistically speaking, that's just bad luck. It's not him sucking. Maybe a tiny part of it is good scouting on the part of the opposing defense/manager, but in the game of inches and the grand scheme of things, it's just bad luck. Maybe Uggla had some bad luck earlier in the year and "should have" had more hits. But that's where the naked eye actually helps some. A good memory is a real asset. OTOH, the difference between a .250 hitter and a .300 hitter, is what, a hit or two a week? Don't believe everything you see, and only believe some of what you think you remember.

Caveat: IANA SABRdude or a statistician. This is what I've gleaned from reading not just Michael Lewis, but Jonah Keri (Baseball Prospectus) and guys he edits.

[throatybeard]

6 IP, 5 runs allowed, 10 hits allowed...

So, how high does Lowe's ERA have to go, how bad does his WHIP have to get for us to get him out of the rotation?

He is now 7-11 on the season for a team that is more than 20 games over .500. I am sorry, but that really takes some work.

When Jurjens comes back, lets move Lowe to long freaking relief and just put Minor into the 5th starter role full-time. I swear, if Freddy gives Lowe a start in the playoffs I will lose my mind! The worst part, of course, is that we have to pay this over-the-hill guy another $15 million next year!!

--Jason "what are the odds, if we put Lowe on waivers, that someone would claim him and his fat freaking contract?" Evans


I don't know. He was the fifth starter on my F BSB team. He's been gone since May. He's the new Hampton.