Former Ga Tech coach attacks player

[JasonEvans]

Not sure how many of you have heard about this story (http://www.myfoxphilly.com/dpp/news/local_news/slideshow-holy-family-incident-on-tape-022211)involving former Ga Tech assistant coach John O'Connor. He is now head coach at tiny Holy Family University in Philly.

In a practice in January, he hit one of his players, drawing blood. Here is an image of it...

http://a323.yahoofs.com/ymg/ept_sports_ncaab_experts__25/ept_sports_ncaab_experts-390651151-1298311678.jpg?ym.3DmEDW2Sv.jXo

You can see a lot more watching the video that is shown in the link at the start of this post.

O'Connor has been suspended but it took weeks for the school to suspend him and it sure appears the administration was content to ignore this incident until the player's family hired an attorney and the images of the attack were shown on TV.

Pretty pathetic for a Division II program to treat athletics this way and not have the stones to stand up to the coach and properly discipline him. It is not like O'Connor is setting the world on fire. The team is 6-19 so far on the season. It is O'Connor's first season on the job after being at Tech the past 5 years.

--Jason "I sure know I would never send my son to play for a lunatic like this" Evans

[muzikfrk75]

Wow....and he kicked him while he was down!

[Duvall]

To be fair, how else are the players going to learn to play defense the Paul Hewitt way?

[4decadedukie]

I simply do not understand -- and the following clearly also applies to the UNC-CH/Davis/football ethical debacles -- how university leadership can be so obtuse. The most critical variable for any university is its aggregate reputation; favorably or adversely, stature impacts every key institutional elelemt: applicant and metriculant quality, faculty and senior administrative recruiting, donations from individuals and foundations, research grants, alumni and booster affinity, peer and media assessments, the list is as endless as it is critical.

Therefore, it would seem imperative for any college guard its reputation zealously, especially because "small" problems -- in the context of the entire university enterprise -- can have such unfavorable, immediate and pervasive implications for university constituencies and elements that are FAR removed from the area where the potentially egregious error has been made. Duke's own experiences with the lacrosse hoax demonstrate this much more effectively than I can articulate.

Holy Family has a good reputation and is located in conservative, extreme northeast Philadelphia. I can only imagine how corrosive this situation might be to this school.

[sagegrouse]

From the videotape it looks like the first contact was a punch to the mouth as the coach's right hand went past the ball. Then it was followed up by a crushing block that appeared to knock the player down, although the blow to the mouth may have been painful enough to cause Kravchuk (sp?) to recoil. The supposed kick seemed to be a prod to get up and get back to work.

Good grief! This is awful. The coach should look for another line of work. And BTW, why would the Holy Family job be better than an assistant's position at GT?

sagegrouse

[Jim3k]

IMO, this looks worse than it actually is. Not to excuse the roughness, but I've looked at this several times and agree that it was a little too much. Rebounding drills, though, are supposed to be rough. Even so, ... I don't see a deliberate punch. It seems to be more of an accidental swipe. The blow is not the reason the player falls. You can see that the coach in the swiping process shoves the player in an effort, I think, to imitate (untimely as the rebound had been corralled) an opponent contesting the rebound. It was the shove that knocked him down, not the swipe. Given that, I think the coach did not realize the swipe had drawn blood and for that reason did not accept the kid's claim that the coach had drawn the blood.

Also, IMO, the coach should have quickly accepted that he had drawn blood and apologized for the accident. If he had done so, we wouldn't be seeing parents, police and lawyers circling around.

Also, the fact that the player was promptly sent off does not mean that the coach was heartlessly ejecting him from practice. Even if angry, he no doubt sent the player to the training room to get the bleeding taken care of. If it had occurred in a game, the player would have been removed to get it stopped. Why would a practice incident be treated differently?

And I agree with Sage that the kick was not a real kick, but a prod to get up.

This is now being blown out of proportion, but the coach did not handle this very well. Moreover, it's likely that the athletic director didn't have the benefit of the video, so too readily accepted the coach's version that he was only trying to simulate game-level roughness.

[Greg_Newton]

Also, the fact that the player was promptly sent off does not mean that the coach was heartlessly ejecting him from practice. Even if angry, he no doubt sent the player to the training room to get the bleeding taken care of. If it had occurred in a game, the player would have been removed to get it stopped. Why would a practice incident be treated differently?

Okay, I agree with most everything else you say - it wasn't just a punch and a kick, it was an excessively and inappropriately physical demonstration followed by a prod to get up - but I'm sorry, this is ridiculous. There is no way you can watch that video and come away with the impression that the coach is simply sending the player to the trainer for medical attention. Coming from someone whose coach had a similar temper, that was a straight up example of an enraged coach getting in a player's face and kicking them out of practice because they think they're being a wuss. I guarantee there was no more to the thought process than that.

Situations like this suck because they're so divisive for the team. Basketball practices are intense, and while this coach clearly took it too far, it was the degree of what he did rather than the nature of it that was the problem; if he had just knocked the guy back a little, it would have been okay. However, hitting him so hard that he falls and breaks his wrist while clocking him in the face in the process? Not so much.

[strawbs]

IMO, this looks worse than it actually is. Not to excuse the roughness, but I've looked at this several times and agree that it was a little too much. Rebounding drills, though, are supposed to be rough. Even so, ... I don't see a deliberate punch. It seems to be more of an accidental swipe. The blow is not the reason the player falls. You can see that the coach in the swiping process shoves the player in an effort, I think, to imitate (untimely as the rebound had been corralled) an opponent contesting the rebound. It was the shove that knocked him down, not the swipe. Given that, I think the coach did not realize the swipe had drawn blood and for that reason did not accept the kid's claim that the coach had drawn the blood.

Also, IMO, the coach should have quickly accepted that he had drawn blood and apologized for the accident. If he had done so, we wouldn't be seeing parents, police and lawyers circling around.

Also, the fact that the player was promptly sent off does not mean that the coach was heartlessly ejecting him from practice. Even if angry, he no doubt sent the player to the training room to get the bleeding taken care of. If it had occurred in a game, the player would have been removed to get it stopped. Why would a practice incident be treated differently?

And I agree with Sage that the kick was not a real kick, but a prod to get up.

This is now being blown out of proportion, but the coach did not handle this very well. Moreover, it's likely that the athletic director didn't have the benefit of the video, so too readily accepted the coach's version that he was only trying to simulate game-level roughness.

ok when i was first watching through it i had just watched the first portion of the clip up until the point the newsman holds up the dvd, then the video froze on me and i wrote that I pretty much agree your stance. Even though he drew blood I didn't think it was a punch or the coaches intent to even knock him over. My initial thought was he was shoving him as a way to "pop" him in the chest and fire him up, a move i've personally seen coaches do numerous times. I didn't think he "kicked" him either i thought it was more of a prod to get up get to the back of the line and keep the drill going, and because the coach was very intense during the drill he didn't realize the severity of the incident.
After seeing the whole video and the coach pretty much taunting the kid saying "oh you got some blood on you" I really don't know what to think. I really can't tell the intent he had, and am now thinking he deserves whatever comes to him.

[JasonEvans]

I simply do not understand -- and the following clearly also applies to the UNC-CH/Davis/football ethical debacles -- how university leadership can be so obtuse. The most critical variable for any university is its aggregate reputation; favorably or adversely, stature impacts every key institutional elelemt: applicant and metriculant quality, faculty and senior administrative recruiting, donations from individuals and foundations, research grants, alumni and booster affinity, peer and media assessments, the list is as endless as it is critical.

Therefore, it would seem imperative for any college guard its reputation zealously, especially because "small" problems -- in the context of the entire university enterprise -- can have such unfavorable, immediate and pervasive implications for university constituencies and elements that are FAR removed from the area where the potentially egregious error has been made. Duke's own experiences with the lacrosse hoax demonstrate this much more effectively than I can articulate.

Holy Family has a good reputation and is located in conservative, extreme northeast Philadelphia. I can only imagine how corrosive this situation might be to this school.

Stellar comments. I gave you pitchfork points.

I too cannot understand why so many schools treat their reputation with such a cavalier attitude.

I was listening to Sportsradio the other day and they were talking about how "everybody cheats." A caller called in and said he was from Georgia and he was sure the UGA football program did not cheat. The hosts, here in Atlanta, laughed at him and started recalling various incidents of cheating in the past few years at UGA. Then, one of the hosts said something very telling...

"I think the only major program in the country that I can say with 100% certainty does not cheat is Duke basketball."

The co-host agreed with him.

They were not talking only about basketball. They were talking about football mostly. At one point they brought up the service academies and the Ivies, but then one of the hosts said, "we are only talking about schools that have a chance at a winning record." The co-host then said, "yeah, that is why Duke football doesn't count. They don't cheat but they don't win either." The first guy mentioned that Cutcliffe was doing a good job of improving the program and then they moved on in the discussion.

Anyway, it was a nice story for a Duke fan to hear. These two sportsradio guys in Atlanta, who pray at the altar of the SEC most of the time, said that the only "100% certainly clean" BCS program in the nation was Duke.

--Jason "I have no idea why more schools don't see that as their primary mission in athletics" Evans

[geraldsneighbor]

Being from Philadelphia I have heard a lot of Mr. O'Connor now second and third hand. I know he left Ga. Tech because he wanted a job that he didn't have to fear clearing his desk out every April. Also, there was friction on the staff at Ga. Tech because of the constant recruiting of one and dones and no real plan long term in building a roster. He is from Philly, has a lot of family in Philly and it seemed to be a logical move it sounded he was good with. Not sure what will happen now but I think it'd be a shame to lose his gig over 5 seconds of bad judgment. Most likely he will and that'll be a tough break and something other coaches will have to learn from in the future to not do.

[mr shadow 008]

I'm not trying to derail the thread or start an argument, but I'm not sure i completely agree with that statement about Duke being the only cleanly run football program in the country. I'm a big Va Tech football fan as that was what i grew up with. Granted I am only 20 years old, but when have you ever heard of Frank Beamer and Va Tech ever have any trouble with recruiting or anything like that really? Beamer usually goes after mostly players from Va and most of them are usually only three or four star recruits. So I'm not sure I agree with that statement about Duke being the only clean football team in the country.

[sagegrouse]

"I think the only major program in the country that I can say with 100% certainty does not cheat is Duke basketball."

The co-host agreed with him.

They were not talking only about basketball. They were talking about football mostly. At one point they brought up the service academies and the Ivies, but then one of the hosts said, "we are only talking about schools that have a chance at a winning record." The co-host then said, "yeah, that is why Duke football doesn't count. They don't cheat but they don't win either." The first guy mentioned that Cutcliffe was doing a good job of improving the program and then they moved on in the discussion.



Non-cheaters

1. Duke basketball
2. Duke football (with an asterisk)
3. Grant Hill

Can we retire the trophy?

sagegrouse

[JasonEvans]

I'm not trying to derail the thread or start an argument, but I'm not sure i completely agree with that statement about Duke being the only cleanly run football program in the country. I'm a big Va Tech football fan as that was what i grew up with. Granted I am only 20 years old, but when have you ever heard of Frank Beamer and Va Tech ever have any trouble with recruiting or anything like that really? Beamer usually goes after mostly players from Va and most of them are usually only three or four star recruits. So I'm not sure I agree with that statement about Duke being the only clean football team in the country.

To be clear I was not accusing anyone of anything. The Radio guys weren't either. They were talking about programs that were "100%, dead certain" clean. They said there are plenty of clean programs and honest coaches but are you really certain about each of them.

The standard they discussed was, would you be willing to bet 2 paychecks that the program would not have even a tiny NCAA violation in the next 2 years. I am not saying that is a good standard, but that is what they were talking about.

They concluded that Duke basketball and football were the only major programs for which they would make that bet.

One more point -- I agree that there is no indication at all that Frank Beemer is anything but a really upstanding guy. But, one point the radio guys made was that programs can be undone by boosters and other folks not under the coach's or administration's control. The reason they mentioned Duke as "100% clean" was because there is such a culture of honesty at Duke and Duke's reputation was so important, they felt no booster would even consider breaking rules to give the program a shortcut. They said it extended even into the realm of street agents trying to get close to players. At Duke, the athletic department controls that stuff so much, the street agents don't even try to contact the future pro basketball and football players.

By the way, someone called in and mentioned UNC basketball and the hosts said something about academic cheating and then laughed.

-Jason "I don't mean this to sound holier than thou -- just reporting what some Atlanta sports guys said" Evans

[4decadedukie]

I'm a big Va Tech football fan as that was what i grew up with. Granted I am only 20 years old, but when have you ever heard of Frank Beamer and Va Tech ever have any trouble with recruiting or anything like that really?

I am not trying to be disrespectful, but what about Marcus Vic? The kid had MANY serious legal problems and convictions before Beamer/VPI finally disqualified him (and, for that matter, additional criminal issues after his expulsion). It is abundantly clear that Virginia Tech’s leadership was willing to give him behavioral latitude that was unprecedented, only because of his potential football prowess (and his felonious brother’s college football career in Blacksburg). Vic and VPI made a mockery of the revered “student-athlete” concept and an even more significant farce of the idea that those privileged to receive intercollegiate athletic scholarships should be judged on character, citizenship, scholarship and comportment (as well as on on-field performance and potential).

[JasonEvans]

John O'Connor has resigned from Holy Family (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=6159715)and says he just hopes he will be able to coach again somewhere, someday.

He and the kid he attacked were on The Today Show together and O'Connor tried to apologize. The player refused to accept it and O'Connor resigned shortly thereafter.

I started to almost feel sorry for O'Connor, but then I read this story (http://www.wrcbtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=14144113)and was struck by this line --


O'Connor believed he'd still be on the sideline, calling plays, barking instructions, had it not been for the video leaked to local news.

"When they kind of hung and buried me without due process, it made it difficult for me and my team to really kind of go on as we had," O'Connor said.

So, he blames the media and the leaked video for his ouster. Dude, look in the mirror. You lost your job (I am sure he was forced out and allowed to resign gracefully) because of what you did, not because video cameras saw it.

What's more, nothing would have happened if he had helped the player up and not mocked the kid for bleeding after being struck. I am of the belief that O'Connor's real problem may have begun when he struck his player, but he multiplied it a thousand times by the way he acted after it happened. He was teaching how to be tough and physical in the post, no real problem with that, but his actions after the teahcing was over and the player was hurt and on the ground are the real problems here.

But, John O'Connor does not get that. And, frankly, until he does and takes personal responsibility for what happened, I doubt he gets another head coaching job.

-Jason "LLLLLooser!" Evans