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VaDukie
06-25-2007, 08:00 PM
I've found it suprising that for the most part, very little attention has been paid to Henderson's impact on next year's team. I remember watching the him in the McDonalds AA game in 2006 and thinking, this guy is the next Grant Hill. Needless to say he did not realize his potential freshmen year, but in my mind this was almost entirely a result of injuries. My friends and I took to calling him 'breakout' because we were waiting for the breakout game where he would assert himself. He certainly did that at the end of the year against UMD and UNC.

In my mind, he should be our best player next season. The promise he showed in the two final regular season games against Maryland and UNC was spectacular - and I beleive hearing that those were the first games he was fully conditioned to play in.

Thoughts?

jimsumner
06-25-2007, 08:14 PM
If you change "should be our best player" to "could be" I'm in total agreement. He's got a pretty high ceiling. The exercise-induced asthma is a big variable.

hurleyfor3
06-25-2007, 09:12 PM
Gerald's a badass.

Richard Berg
06-25-2007, 10:26 PM
I've seen tons of attention heaped on G, actually. There's no doubt that if he reaches his potential, all the talk will have been just an understatement. (except for maybe the GHill comment ;)) I'd love to see him erase the remaining question marks and become the player we've all seen flashes of!

Bob Green
06-25-2007, 10:42 PM
When I first read that Gerald had committed to Duke, I said to myself, "Gerald Henderson, Jr. will be the next Duke superstar." I still believe he can be. He just needs to ... insert favorite cliche....(stay healthy, reach his potential, learn his niche in the system, etc...). Gerald could have a monster Sophomore season.

Bob Green
Yokosuka, Japan

Cavlaw
06-25-2007, 10:46 PM
I agree. In the words of Dick Vitale, I think he's going to be a really special player.

It really is unfortunate that the incident with Hansbrough is going to hang over his collegiate career due to the Duke hate in the media and on the net, and I suspect the attention will get worse as he gets better. My understanding is that he's a great kid who deserves far better than that.

ACCBBallFan
06-25-2007, 11:46 PM
If you change "should be our best player" to "could be" I'm in total agreement. He's got a pretty high ceiling. The exercise-induced asthma is a big variable.I was thinking about exercised induced asthma today but did not want to start a thread on it.

Still puzzles me. Did Gerald have this problem in HS? If so, did the scouts blow it or know it? Perhaps they did, and still felt he could be the top player, or one of the top 2 the next couple of years.

Is exercised induced asthma something that has adult onset? and how long does it last? Is it like allergies that wives tales say has a 7 year life? Can it be treated?

Surely some Duke Med school student or grad can provide some insight.

TillyGalore
06-26-2007, 08:01 AM
I agree. In the words of Dick Vitale, I think he's going to be a really special player.

It really is unfortunate that the incident with Hansbrough is going to hang over his collegiate career due to the Duke hate in the media and on the net, and I suspect the attention will get worse as he gets better. My understanding is that he's a great kid who deserves far better than that.

Cavlaw, I completely agree with you. As I was reading the board I too was thinking about the Hansbrough incident and how it will haunt Gerald. Poor guy. He didn't do anything wrong and yet this will follow him.

As many have posted, last year's team didn't have a lot of leadership as it was very young team. With a year, or for some an additional year, under their belts I think we are going to see some amazing things from Gerald and everyone else. Am really looking forward to the season!!

Carlos
06-26-2007, 08:17 AM
I doubt very much that the Hansbrough incident will haunt Henderson. You'll see the highlights of it at the start of the Duke/Carolina games next season because both guys will likely be the leading scorers on their teams. Other than that, you'll hear some guys dredge it up on a BBS - but that's about it.

As for next year, we should be a team that really attacks the rim with Henderson and Nelson from the wings. I think both guys should have strong seasons.

Methodistman
06-26-2007, 08:34 AM
I was thinking about exercised induced asthma today but did not want to start a thread on it.

Still puzzles me. Did Gerald have this problem in HS? If so, did the scouts blow it or know it? Perhaps they did, and still felt he could be the top player, or one of the top 2 the next couple of years.

Is exercised induced asthma something that has adult onset? and how long does it last? Is it like allergies that wives tales say has a 7 year life? Can it be treated?

Surely some Duke Med school student or grad can provide some insight.

Not a Med school grad, but when I was a runner in high school and college, I developed exercise-induced asthma. The asthma did not ever really affect me in a race, but it would hit once I had completed the race and was trying to cool down. Thus the issue for G - if he could stay out of the court and keep running, he would probably be fine. It's the timeouts, the bench time, the free throws - all of those type of things for me would be setting it off. One of the triggers for it does happen to be allergies, and I've been told that due to all the allergens, some docs refer to the area as "Asthma Alley."

dukerev
06-26-2007, 09:50 AM
There is no doubt that we'll see tons of replays of the Gerald-Hansblah incident this year. And if Gerald becomes the "special" player we're hoping he becomes we'll see so many replays of it that there will be multiple threads on this board about how Duke is getting hosed by the media (again). However, what we see and what Gerald sees, or to be more specific, how the team and coaching staff deal with it are two different things. I suspect that K and Gerald talked about it extensively in their end-of-the-year meeting and will continue to talk about how Gerald will move forward (next play). I also suspect if the coverage of the incident gets out of hand you'll see K and the rest of the staff including the sports info department deal with it quickly and decisively; especially in light of the new campaign to have better media relations. We (as in us fans) will probably have a completely different way of dealing with the Gerald-Hansblah incident than Gerald and the rest of the team will.

Jumbo
06-26-2007, 11:04 AM
I've found it suprising that for the most part, very little attention has been paid to Henderson's impact on next year's team. I remember watching the him in the McDonalds AA game in 2006 and thinking, this guy is the next Grant Hill. Needless to say he did not realize his potential freshmen year, but in my mind this was almost entirely a result of injuries. My friends and I took to calling him 'breakout' because we were waiting for the breakout game where he would assert himself. He certainly did that at the end of the year against UMD and UNC.

In my mind, he should be our best player next season. The promise he showed in the two final regular season games against Maryland and UNC was spectacular - and I beleive hearing that those were the first games he was fully conditioned to play in.

Thoughts?

I apologize if this is a bit harsh, but you've touched on a pet peeve of mine. Anyone who thought Gerald Henderson was remotely similar to Grant Hill (and anyone who would make any kind of a sweeping judgment about any player based on one All-Star game) is nuts.

Grant Hill was a player the likes of which we may never see again at Duke. He could do everything you wanted from a basketball player, with the slight exception of knocking down three pointers. But the guy could guard every position, play point guard with ease, slash, pull up, see the floor beautifully, and he was 6'8." He was a top-five player in the NBA before he got hurt.

Gerald Henderson is 6'5" and while he is extremely strong, fast and leaps well, he entered college with none of Grant's polish. Even by the end of his freshman year, Gerald was a limited player. He showed some ability to create his own shot and get to the rim late in the year and guarded people decently. But he has a ton of things upon wich to improve, including his ball-handling, range on his jumper and help defense. Most importantly, though, he remains limited on offense because he doesn't see the floor very well and is a bit of a ball-stopper. He needs to improve his vision/passing in order to really develop as a player. Right now, he's more along the lines of a Dahntay Jones or a Corey Maggette than an all-around stud like Grant Hill. And if Henderson has a season equivalent to Jones or Maggette this year, I'll be thrilled. Because, most likely, Henderson won't, and shouldn't, start. Nelson is a senior. Scheyer is a superior all-around player. Paulus is the point guard, although if Gerald makes major strides, I wouldn't be opposed to a Scheyer-Nelson-Henderson perimeter trio, given Singler's playmaking skills.

But, like last year, the Gerald hype is completely out of control. People need to stop gawking at a player's vertical and realize efficient movement is more important than explosive movement, and that there are many subtle aspects of basketball that determine a player's value. I want Gerald to succeed, and fully expect him to improve. But I think those who suddenly expect him to become Duke's best player are deluding themselves.

KrimsonKing
06-26-2007, 11:53 AM
to echo Jumbo, the thought that Gerald is anywhere close to Grant Hill is preposterous.

Grant Hill was a 6'8" G/F with great hops,great handle, great passer and the
best talent ever in the K era winning 2 rings back to back.

Gerald is a 6'4"(being generous on his height) F with great hops, below average handle, average passer.

Some of you really have no clue

Indoor66
06-26-2007, 12:08 PM
to echo Jumbo, the thought that Gerald is anywhere close to Grant Hill is preposterous.

Grant Hill was a 6'8" G/F with great hops,great handle, great passer and the
best talent ever in the K era winning 2 rings back to back.

Gerald is a 6'4"(being generous on his height) F with great hops, below average handle, average passer.

Some of you really have no clue

The similarity I see is in his body position going for a flying layup or dunk. Both seem to hold their bodies, the ball and off arm in similar position. Other than that, Grant is (not to be cute) head and shoulders above Gerald. :)

mapei
06-26-2007, 01:12 PM
I had exercise-induced asthma that could be brought on by cycling or even indoor training, especially in cool/dry weather. Exercise wasn't the only trigger in my case, since exposure to certain allergens could bring it on as well, but I could pretty much count on having an attack in cold-weather exercise and would have to stop immediately. It's definitely not fun to lose your ability to breathe as much as your body needs.

I was treated with albuterol and inhaled steroids, and my situation improved dramatically over time. I now keep an albuterol inhaler handy and always use it right before exercise, but I seldom need it otherwise. When it was bad (15 years ago), it was very bad. But for a dozen years or so it's only been a very minor nuisance, and hasn't restricted my activities - which are extensive, in the case of cycling - at all.

Classof06
06-26-2007, 02:24 PM
I apologize if this is a bit harsh, but you've touched on a pet peeve of mine. Anyone who thought Gerald Henderson was remotely similar to Grant Hill (and anyone who would make any kind of a sweeping judgment about any player based on one All-Star game) is nuts.

Grant Hill was a player the likes of which we may never see again at Duke. He could do everything you wanted from a basketball player, with the slight exception of knocking down three pointers. But the guy could guard every position, play point guard with ease, slash, pull up, see the floor beautifully, and he was 6'8." He was a top-five player in the NBA before he got hurt.

Gerald Henderson is 6'5" and while he is extremely strong, fast and leaps well, he entered college with none of Grant's polish. Even by the end of his freshman year, Gerald was a limited player. He showed some ability to create his own shot and get to the rim late in the year and guarded people decently. But he has a ton of things upon wich to improve, including his ball-handling, range on his jumper and help defense. Most importantly, though, he remains limited on offense because he doesn't see the floor very well and is a bit of a ball-stopper. He needs to improve his vision/passing in order to really develop as a player. Right now, he's more along the lines of a Dahntay Jones or a Corey Maggette than an all-around stud like Grant Hill. And if Henderson has a season equivalent to Jones or Maggette this year, I'll be thrilled. Because, most likely, Henderson won't, and shouldn't, start. Nelson is a senior. Scheyer is a superior all-around player. Paulus is the point guard, although if Gerald makes major strides, I wouldn't be opposed to a Scheyer-Nelson-Henderson perimeter trio, given Singler's playmaking skills.

But, like last year, the Gerald hype is completely out of control. People need to stop gawking at a player's vertical and realize efficient movement is more important than explosive movement, and that there are many subtle aspects of basketball that determine a player's value. I want Gerald to succeed, and fully expect him to improve. But I think those who suddenly expect him to become Duke's best player are deluding themselves.

With all due respect Jumbo, I think your comments are way off-base. I agree with you that it is very stupid to compare Gerald to Grant Hill, because you're comparing one of Duke's best players ever to a kid who just finished his freshman year. That's just not a reasonable comparison and it should probably cease right now. Just a suggestion.

After that, you completely lost me. You talked about one of your pet peeves, so I'll address one of mine; to say Henderson won't start is 1 thing (your opinion/prediction/whatever), but to say he shouldn't start is quite another. If Henderson comes into camp and plays up to his special potential, then who are you to say that he shouldn't start? That's complete idiocy. I'll tell you this much, if Henderson plays up to his potential, he is without question one of the 5 best players on our team. Everyone knows about Paulus' preseason injuries last year and how those affected him, but what people forget is that Gerald had quite a few of his own. Coach K said it after the very first game: "Gerald Henderson is a unique athlete and he missed most of the preseason with numerous injuries. When he gets into really good shape, he’ll just keep getting better." Ummm, that's exactly what happened with Gerald, Jumbo; he just kept getting better. So my question is, why would a whole year of valuable experience and a whole offseason stop that progression? Did you not see the flashes of brilliance from this kid as the year went on? Did you not see him drop 15 points in 21 minutes in the 2nd Maryland game? Or go for 16 and 6 on 8-14 shooting in the 2nd UNC game? Those were our last two regular season games; by the end of the year, this kid was straight up killin teams, man. Where were you???

Jon Scheyer is definitely NOT a superior all-around player to Gerald Henderson. Besides the fact that Scheyer averaged 14 more minutes per game than Gerald, it was Henderson who was playing better basketball by the end of the year; that's why Gerald averaged 18 mpg the whole season, but around 25mpg over the last several games. I don't think it's a secret to anyone that as the ACC got more familiar with Scheyer, his production decreased. Scheyer still had a great year, but that statement makes you look like you didn't even watch the last quarter of the season.

I'll end by saying that we've only seen flashes of how good Gerald can be, and to say the his hype is "out of control" means the only one deluding themselves is you. I think most people have focused on the arrival of Singler and the recovery of Paulus more than talk about Henderson, so I don't know how this "hype" you speak of is out of control. Regardless, most everyone familiar with Duke, whether it be media, fans, etc. expects and/or believes Gerald can have a breakout year. Nobody is saying he's gonna be the second coming of Christ, but I fail to understand what you can't see in this kid...he's gonna be a good one. Take it to the bank.

Kilby
06-26-2007, 02:50 PM
There was no one on Duke's team last year that I would rather have the ball at clutch time than Henderson. As far as I'm concerned he was the most talented, best clutch as far as being able to create his own shot, and most athletic. Hands down. The only way that Henderson does't start that won't make me extremely angry and suspect is if his asthma is the cause.

elvis14
06-26-2007, 03:19 PM
There are always players with tons of hops and reputation coming out of high school who show up and never live up to the hype. Thanks goodness Gerald is not one of those guys. By the end of last season, he was playing great. I've said this on another thread....we have a good team coming in next year. If you look at our team there's one guy that will scare he hell out of other teams and that's Gerald. Why? Because he can create his own shot. He can hit the 3, he can hit the pull up jumper. It's not that he's going to be scary good. He IS scary good and with more playing time I think he'll continue to get better and better. Is he the next Grant Hill? Heck no, he doesn't play 'D' the way GH could he's smaller, different guy. He doesn't need to be the next GHill, just let him be himself and cut him loose on the other teams. Just think of all the open jumpers we could get for Paulus, Jon, King and layups for Lance, etc when teams have to play help defense after Gerald gets past his man or get into the interior of a zone! I'm really looking forward to next season, I like the team we have coming in and I'm excited to see Gerald play.

A couple other points in this thread I thought I'd mention. First, the exercise induced asthma. I have it and have had it for years (first noticed it high school when I was wrestling...last noticed it last night playing softball at Walnut Creek). It's annoying but it can be worked thru. As someone else mentioned, if it's bad you take something like Albuterol to help. I really hope it doesn't hold him back this season. Secondly is the shot to Hasnblahblah. If Gerald has a less than average career at Duke, it'll be what he is known for. I don't think that'll be the case. He should be good enough to get the media to focus on his game. Either way, the clip of him clipping Hansblahblah's beak will be shown for the next 20 years.

Clipsfan
06-26-2007, 06:17 PM
You talked about one of your pet peeves, so I'll address one of mine; to say Henderson won't start is 1 thing (your opinion/prediction/whatever), but to say he shouldn't start is quite another. If Henderson comes into camp and plays up to his special potential, then who are you to say that he shouldn't start? That's complete idiocy.

Class - I'm confused why Jumbo saying that Henderson won't start is alright, as it is opinion, while saying that he shouldn't start isn't alright. Isn't it just Jumbo's opinion that Henderson shouldn't start? He's not trashing Gerald, or saying anything all the negative. Rather, he's saying that in his own opinion, Gerald shouldn't start next year.

I don't know whether Gerald should start next year, as I loved what I saw at the end of the season, but I can't say he should definitely start based on 3-4 games. I do think that we'll only start Gerald if we play 4 guards, as I think that Paulus and Nelson will definitely start, and I think that Jon is ahead of Gerald as of the last time I saw them play. This could easily change by November, and I hope that all 4 players improve. Even so, this is all just opinion, so why are you so upset with Jumbo's opinion on who should/shouldn't start?

Schwarz
06-26-2007, 10:19 PM
Most importantly, though, he remains limited on offense because he doesn't see the floor very well and is a bit of a ball-stopper. He needs to improve his vision/passing in order to really develop as a player.

I think these two lines cut to the heart of the matter, and they highlight the difference between Gerald and Grant (or Scheyer to a lesser extent). I think Gerald has the most potential of the returning players, but he certainly has to improve in this area if he is going to be a starter next season. I believe Gerald will improve next season, but I wouldn't be counting on him to make all-ACC next year. Maybe by his junior year. :D

Jumbo
06-27-2007, 12:26 AM
If Henderson comes into camp and plays up to his special potential, then who are you to say that he shouldn't start?Z
Ah, but there's the rub. What is his potential? Is it special? I'm not so sure it is. Potential is a tricky, seductive thing, and there's a lot more to it than leaping ability.


That's complete idiocy.
It's always cute when someone who graduated last year decides to call my stance on a basketball matter "idiotic." Thanks for the laugh.


Ummm, that's exactly what happened with Gerald, Jumbo; he just kept getting better. So my question is, why would a whole year of valuable experience and a whole offseason stop that progression? Did you not see the flashes of brilliance from this kid as the year went on? Did you not see him drop 15 points in 21 minutes in the 2nd Maryland game? Or go for 16 and 6 on 8-14 shooting in the 2nd UNC game? Those were our last two regular season games; by the end of the year, this kid was straight up killin teams, man. Where were you???
I was watching those flashes of brilliance ... and everything in between. He played pretty well against Maryland and then went on a scoring binge against UNC. Those were parts of a grand total of two games. Duke also lost both those games, so it's hard to say that anyone on Duke was "straight up killin" anyone. And, in case you haven't noticed, there's more to basketball than scoring. And Gerald, even in those games, demonstrated that he still has to get better in a host of those other areas. That's where I was, man. Watching the whole game, not just the guy with the ball.



Jon Scheyer is definitely NOT a superior all-around player to Gerald Henderson.
Oh, well now you've convinced me. Coach K was clearly playing Scheyer more because he felt sorry for him. Or because he had it out for Gerald. Oh, wait, it was Gerald's asthma, even though that didn't seem to be a problem late in the year. How about a checklist? Jump shot? Scheyer. Ball-handling? Scheyer. Attacking the basket? Henderson. Passing? Scheyer. Defense (on and off the ball)? Scheyer. Rebounding? Henderson. Overall court sense? Scheyer. Sure seems like the better all-around player to me.


Besides the fact that Scheyer averaged 14 more minutes per game than Gerald, it was Henderson who was playing better basketball by the end of the year; that's why Gerald averaged 18 mpg the whole season, but around 25mpg over the last several games.

Now you're just making stuff up. Gerald played 25 minutes or more exactly three times in his last 16 games. And where was this startling improvement in those other contests? Like much of the season, he showed some signs, but also struggled in a variety of areas.


I don't think it's a secret to anyone that as the ACC got more familiar with Scheyer, his production decreased. Scheyer still had a great year, but that statement makes you look like you didn't even watch the last quarter of the season.
Oh, I saw the last quarter of the season. I don't think familiarity had anything to do with any of Scheyer's perceived struggles. His stats were pretty rock-solid across the board. He scored in double figures in each of his last nine ACC games, even though the ACC had "figured him out." Meanwhile, he was asked to carry a remarkable burden at both ends, especailly as a playmaker (because Paulus became more of a spot-up shooter) and on defense (because Paulus always guarded the other team's worst perimeter player). Scheyer's play -- from start to finish -- was one of the few bright spots last season.


I'll end by saying that we've only seen flashes of how good Gerald can be, and to say the his hype is "out of control" means the only one deluding themselves is you.
I see. So, after beginning your post by agreeing with me that comparing Henderson to Grant Hill is indeed out-of-control hype, I'm now the one deluding myself. Got it. That makes sense.


I think most people have focused on the arrival of Singler and the recovery of Paulus more than talk about Henderson, so I don't know how this "hype" you speak of is out of control.

Read more. There have been a host of posts pumping up Henderson with unrealistic expectations that are ultimately unfair to expect Gerald to meet.


Regardless, most everyone familiar with Duke, whether it be media, fans, etc. expects and/or believes Gerald can have a breakout year. Nobody is saying he's gonna be the second coming of Christ, but I fail to understand what you can't see in this kid...he's gonna be a good one. Take it to the bank.

I agree that he'll be a good one. The key will be how much he can address the weaknesses he entered college with that really didn't improve much last year (passing, vision, court sense, etc.). I'd love to see a breakout year from him. I just think it's amazing how fans are seduced by his athleticism and take his classmate -- Scheyer -- totally for granted after what was, by all accounts, an outstanding freshman year.

RepoMan
06-27-2007, 08:57 AM
What do I know, but I would not at all be surprised to see a 4 guard starting lineup + Singler. It all depends on Zoub's development, I think.

dw0827
06-27-2007, 09:26 AM
Thomas hasn't gotten much play in these threads lately, but let's not forget him. If he can stay on the floor, then we probably won't be seeing many 4 guard lineups. Singler, Lance/Zoubek, Paulus, Sheyer, Nelson with Henderson off the bench. I agree with Jumbo in that I love Sheyer's game. Such a high b'ball IQ and able to do so many things . . . so Henderson won't replace Sheyer.

Personally, if he replaces anybody in the starting (and ending) lineup, it might be Nelson. I am really torn about him. I love his defense and rebounding. I hate his offense. But with Henderson, just flip it. I love his (potential) offense but I'm not real fond of his defense. And I give the nod to Nelson right now on IQ simply because he's older and more experienced.

So I still gotta have Henderson off the bench. But he could be REALLY valuable in that role, coming off the bench providing energy and scoring.

But don't forget Thomas. If he makes strides this summer, then I feel really good about next year's chances.

rsvman
06-27-2007, 09:31 AM
People get excited by a guy like Henderson because he can sky. He's the guy most likely to make the highlight reel. When I'm watching the games with my son, after Henderson makes a great play we say "Gerrraalllld HENnnnndersonnnn!" like we're announcing over the PA at an NBA game. It's fun. Try it some time.

Is he the second coming of Grant Hill? No. Right now he looks like the second coming of Dahntay Jones to me. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Maybe he'll continue to be Dahntay Jones, or maybe he'll be BETTER than Jones. At this point I don't think anybody can say, one way or the other. I THINK he is capable or being better than Jones.

One thing is for sure: Henderson will provide us with many, many more highlight reel plays, and many, many more chances to say, "Gerrraallld HENnndersonnn!" in an overly deep, well-modulated voice. For now, that's enough for me. :D

gw67
06-27-2007, 09:41 AM
I agree that he'll be a good one. The key will be how much he can address the weaknesses he entered college with that really didn't improve much last year (passing, vision, court sense, etc.). I'd love to see a breakout year from him. I just think it's amazing how fans are seduced by his athleticism and take his classmate -- Scheyer -- totally for granted after what was, by all accounts, an outstanding freshman year.

The above are the conclusions and observation by Jumbo in a previous post. I agree with his conclusions and observation. I hope that Henderson has a breakout year just as I hope that all returning players improve going into this year.

Some thoughts on Henderson:

* During the last eleven games last year, he had three good games and averaged 8.7ppg.
* He needs to improve his ballhandling, passing, outside shooting, free throw shooting and defense this coming season.
* For someone who is reputed to be agressive going to the hoop, he shot fewer free throws on a per minute basis than Scheyer.

I see Henderson as one of the top five players on the team next year but he must improve significantly in several areas before he becomes the go-to player that many envision.

gw67

jimsumner
06-27-2007, 11:28 AM
Let me chime in a bit on the whole Grant-Henderson thing. Certainly, Duke fans aren't unique in this regard but portions of the Duke fan base seem to delight in making these kinds of unrealistic comparisons. How many "next Christian Laettners" have we seen? Parks, Newton, Burgess, Randolph, McRoberts. Five at least. Paulus is the next Hurley, Scheyer has to be the next J.J., and don't get me started on Zoubek and Gminski. When they don't turn out to be as good as hall-of-famers, the next step is to turn on them for failing to meet someone else's expectations.

Comparing Henderson to Grant does no one any favors and just sets everybody up for another round of criticism.

Clipsfan
06-27-2007, 01:35 PM
People get excited by a guy like Henderson because he can sky. He's the guy most likely to make the highlight reel. When I'm watching the games with my son, after Henderson makes a great play we say "Gerrraalllld HENnnnndersonnnn!" like we're announcing over the PA at an NBA game. It's fun. Try it some time.

Is he the second coming of Grant Hill? No. Right now he looks like the second coming of Dahntay Jones to me. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Maybe he'll continue to be Dahntay Jones, or maybe he'll be BETTER than Jones. At this point I don't think anybody can say, one way or the other. I THINK he is capable or being better than Jones.

One thing is for sure: Henderson will provide us with many, many more highlight reel plays, and many, many more chances to say, "Gerrraallld HENnndersonnn!" in an overly deep, well-modulated voice. For now, that's enough for me. :D

From what I remember, Dahntay played excellent defense in addition to slashing to the basket and using his athleticism. I'd love it if Gerald added "defensive stopper" to his resume, but I don't think that's on there yet. Dahntay was a great addition to the Duke team (K doesn't take many transfers, after all) and if Gerald contributed the same qualities that would be great.

jipops
06-27-2007, 02:05 PM
Put me in the camp that believes Scheyer is our best player next season. Can't quite understand why this guy gets absolutely no hype from our own fans even though he's easily the most polished player on the roster in just about every phase of the game. Is it simply b/c he doesn't throw down acrobatic jams?

Though the gap is ofcourse still enormous, i think a Grant Hill-Scheyer comparison is tighter than a Grant Hill-Henderson comparison... seeing as how we feel compelled (or wish) to say any new guard could be another Hill.

EarlJam
06-27-2007, 02:08 PM
All of this talk reminds me of how I felt about Ricky Price in the mid-90s. First of all, I DO believe the talent on this team is much, much better and there will be "break-outs" next year.

But I remember prior to each season in the mid-90s thinking, "This Ricky Price guy is going to be great. Any day he's going to have a breakout game."

He did show flashes, but never lived up to the hype. And if memory serves, he got suspended after getting caught cheating on exams. Is that right?

-EarlJam

whereinthehellami
06-27-2007, 02:15 PM
The biggest similarity between Hill and Henderson to me is the fact that they both struggled with being assertive. Hill was constantly goaded by Laetner to live up to his talent and I see the same thing with Henderson but without a star player riding him to get better. I remember when Hill was at South Lakes HS in Virginia and how effortless he made things seem. I don't think Henderson is at that level but I think hes ahead of Ricky Price at this point.

Kilby
06-27-2007, 02:24 PM
Who knows how Gerald will ultimately compare to the greats? I do know that I would take him before anybody on Duke's current team. I havn't seen Singler enough to judge but he may the only person to change my mind. People forget the situations that Duke faced when Henderson came into games. Duke's offense was often stagnant, no player movement, no ball movement. I was yelling for Henderson to take it becaause he was the only person that could. For all the ball handling that McRobert's had, he had the slowest first step and no post moves. Scheyer, who I think is pretty good, disappearred as an offensive threat at the end of the season. Paulus became more of an offensive threat but still never was not the point that Duke needs.

jimsumner
06-27-2007, 02:40 PM
Ah, Ricky Price. What a strange career arc. Before his career went south, he was pretty good. He had a fair number of break-out games his sophomore year-@ Georgia Tech, @UNC, @ Maryland, et. al. But he couldn't build on them.

FWIW, Price averaged 14 ppg and made third-team All-ACC as a sophomore. K frequently extolled him as Duke's best defender. GH may well do better than that in the coming season but a Price-like sophomore season would be a definite step up for Henderson.

Classof06
06-27-2007, 02:55 PM
Class - I'm confused why Jumbo saying that Henderson won't start is alright, as it is opinion, while saying that he shouldn't start isn't alright. Isn't it just Jumbo's opinion that Henderson shouldn't start? He's not trashing Gerald, or saying anything all the negative. Rather, he's saying that in his own opinion, Gerald shouldn't start next year.

I don't know whether Gerald should start next year, as I loved what I saw at the end of the season, but I can't say he should definitely start based on 3-4 games. I do think that we'll only start Gerald if we play 4 guards, as I think that Paulus and Nelson will definitely start, and I think that Jon is ahead of Gerald as of the last time I saw them play. This could easily change by November, and I hope that all 4 players improve. Even so, this is all just opinion, so why are you so upset with Jumbo's opinion on who should/shouldn't start?

Starting spots are earned. To say Gerald "shouldn't" start in June completely negates any kind of logic. This statement completely ignores the fact that we should be playing whoever proves they are capable of starting. How would we know that if we determine who "should" start in June?? You said it yourself about your observations: "This could easily change by November". There was no such statement from Jumbo.

The kid's development was stunted due to preseason injuries his freshman year, he struggled to catch up (though he eventually did), but all of a sudden he shouldn't start or even get the opportunity to? It's the same thing with people saying Paulus should start; not if he doesn't earn it, he shouldn't. Playing time, especially with Duke's youth, is not determined in June. And with the year we had last year, it shouldn't be determined solely on the previous year, either. To say he "shouldn't" start in June is the equivalent of saying that you really don't care how much he'll progress over the offseason or how he plays in the preaseason. It's just a very shortsighted statement on several counts...

I'm a proponent of starting the 5 kids that give you the best chance to win. I think it's an important principle, and one that is especially relevant to Duke this coming year. There's a very good possibility that Gerald can and will be one of those five players this year. As long as we don't count him out 5 months before the season even starts...

Jaymf7
06-27-2007, 04:02 PM
I see Henderson as one of the top five players on the team next year...

This talk of "5 best players" mixed with whether G should start is a bit misleading. G very well may be one of our 5 best players. Even so, that does not mean he will/should start.

For better or worse, this team is loaded on the wings. No one will contend that G can play the 1 or 5 position. If we go small, he may be able to play the 4 for short stretches. So the question is not whether he is one of our top 5 players, but rather he is one of the best 3 who can play the 2, 3 or 4.

Maybe not. I could easily see Scheyer, Markie and Singler playing ahead of him. Smith, McClure and Pocius might also steal minutes because they may bring things G does not. We are loaded at the wings.

That said, whether G starts will depend both on his development and match-ups. I am willing to bet there are games where he will. Moreover, if Zou does not make great leaps and Singler is as ready as advertised, perhaps we will let Singler play the 5 and make room for G. That might be unrealistic in ACC games, but I'm sure we could do that in early season games to get G more experience if he earns it.

Jaymf7
06-27-2007, 04:18 PM
Let me chime in a bit on the whole Grant-Henderson thing. Certainly, Duke fans aren't unique in this regard but portions of the Duke fan base seem to delight in making these kinds of unrealistic comparisons. How many "next Christian Laettners" have we seen? Parks, Newton, Burgess, Randolph, McRoberts. Five at least. Paulus is the next Hurley, Scheyer has to be the next J.J., and don't get me started on Zoubek and Gminski. When they don't turn out to be as good as hall-of-famers, the next step is to turn on them for failing to meet someone else's expectations.

Comparing Henderson to Grant does no one any favors and just sets everybody up for another round of criticism.

I agree that unrealistic expectations do no one any favors. Comparing players, however, is not necessarily a terrible thing. All sports fans make comparisons. Those with a sense of history for a program make them within that program. Comparisons are not necessarily predictions (if they are, then you may be right).

Comparing players has reminded me of how much fun it is to see young college players develop. When Boozer came in, I thought there was no way he'd ever measure up to Brand. When Shel came in years later, he looked light years away from Boozer. Somehow, the players grew up and became stars in their own right.

One of the trickiest things about comparing college players, for me at least, is accounting for class and experience. It is very hard for me to isolate Grant's freshman year -- my memory of him is so clouded by the three that followed (not to mention the NBA years). Same with JJ and his freshman year. While it seems impossible to expect Gerald or Jon to realistically be the "next" Grant or JJ, when apples are compared to apples it is less of a longshot.

Favorably comparing players does not doom them to failure (even if the comparison is a bit of a stretch). Rather, I take it as saying "I really loved watching JJ play and develop and leave his mark, and I can see Jon doing similar things and making me feel the same way I felt watching JJ." [that's bit longwinded, but you know what I mean].

Are there really examples of where we criticized a Duke player because he failed to live up to the "next ____" expectation? McRoberts has been criticized, but I don't think that was based on hype fuled by comparisons (and his criticism may be well founded for reasons that have nothing to do with hype).

For what it's worth, I remember talk on this board of Pocius being the "next Manu Ginobli" before he arrived on campus. That hasn't happened, but I still cheer wildly for him when he gets in (as long as he doesn't pass to a bench manager).

jimsumner
06-27-2007, 06:37 PM
"Are there really examples of where we criticized a Duke player because he failed to live up to the "next ____" expectation?"

I gather you were off-planet during the Shavlik Randolph years. :)

SilkyJ
06-27-2007, 07:32 PM
I know that last year before Gerald was coming in I was one of the people trying to temper expectations saying that basically he was a ridiculously good leaper and could get to the rack, but that he was basically Dahntay jones (read: no jumper). I was very pleasantly surprised by Gerald's mid-range jumper last year. It was much better than Dahntay's, and whereas dahntay would almost always try and take it all the way to the rack, then jump as high as he could and sometimes get fouled and sometimes put up a forced shot, Gerald seems to have a better feel for the game and pulls up from 10-15 instead of driving into the middle of a D.

I think Gerald has the potential to be a great player, but he needs to work on his quickness. I always sat on the "non-tv" side where the benches are, first standing row (there are 2 rows of ticketed seats in front of us) and one of those ticketed rows was where scouts would sit (tan blazer, gold tie). I would always take some time to chat with the scouts and especially to compare my evaluations with theirs. Anyway, we mostly talked about McBob and Demarcus, and didnt talk much about Gerald b/c I didn't really think their was much of a chance of him going pro. But I would also watch as they took notes and the one thing they wrote about Gerald under his "weaknesses" was always "Lateral Quickness." If he can improve that he will be a better penetrator, and especially, a better defender.

Jumbo
06-27-2007, 10:46 PM
Starting spots are earned. To say Gerald "shouldn't" start in June completely negates any kind of logic. This statement completely ignores the fact that we should be playing whoever proves they are capable of starting. How would we know that if we determine who "should" start in June?? You said it yourself about your observations: "This could easily change by November". There was no such statement from Jumbo.

The kid's development was stunted due to preseason injuries his freshman year, he struggled to catch up (though he eventually did), but all of a sudden he shouldn't start or even get the opportunity to? It's the same thing with people saying Paulus should start; not if he doesn't earn it, he shouldn't. Playing time, especially with Duke's youth, is not determined in June. And with the year we had last year, it shouldn't be determined solely on the previous year, either. To say he "shouldn't" start in June is the equivalent of saying that you really don't care how much he'll progress over the offseason or how he plays in the preaseason. It's just a very shortsighted statement on several counts...

I'm a proponent of starting the 5 kids that give you the best chance to win. I think it's an important principle, and one that is especially relevant to Duke this coming year. There's a very good possibility that Gerald can and will be one of those five players this year. As long as we don't count him out 5 months before the season even starts...

This entire post is the very definition of a Straw Man.

jaimedun34
06-28-2007, 07:24 AM
Silky J, I hate to get off topic but could you share some of what the scouts thought of McRoberts and Nelson?

I hope we aren't comparing a senior Dahntay to a freshman Henderson? Don't forget that Dahntay had the pleasure of practicing with the 2001 championship team and also played 2002 alongside Jason, Carlos and Dunleavy. Henderson hasn't had the chance to get that type of experience yet.

I think Jon Scheyer is the perfect 6th man because he can do just about everything, and he could sub in for Paulus, Henderson or DeMarcus, but Henderson would be a nice pure scorer off the bench.

Jaymf7
06-28-2007, 09:02 AM
"Are there really examples of where we criticized a Duke player because he failed to live up to the "next ____" expectation?"

I gather you were off-planet during the Shavlik Randolph years. :)

Was Shav widely expected to be the next Laettner or Ferry? I don't remember that, but it may be the case (perhaps after his junior year of HS). I know he was hyped, but his stock had been slipping due to injuries before he even arrived on campus -- injuries which hindered his development for 3 years here. Saying he failed to become the next [whoever] is a bit like saying Grant Hill failed to become the next Jordan in his NBA career (I know, this is a stretch, but both were affected by injuries about as much as one could be in their respective college/pro careers).

Shav's issue was always confidence at Duke. I think that is a common issue when you have so many great talents and such pressure to excel at Duke. Some naturals shine quickly, but most others take a year or two to find their way. One thing cannot be debated about Shav, though -- the man could really pump fake.

dw0827
06-28-2007, 11:23 AM
One thing cannot be debated about Shav, though -- the man could really pump fake.

What??? Pump fakes??? And all this time I thought he was actually trying to jump!

Classof06
06-28-2007, 01:05 PM
This entire post is the very definition of a Straw Man.

Haha, ok. Say what you want. All I can say is that I'm up for seeing this team develop before we start assigning our roles. Apparently, you seem to have all the answers already...

mapei
06-28-2007, 01:55 PM
I don't think the problem with Shav was failing to be the next Ferry or Laettner so much as failing to be the Shav we expected him to be. Guy was supposed to be a star, just like we're hoping Singler will be, and for a lot of reasons it didn't happen.

In addition to pump faking, he was pretty good at fouling. ;)

Jumbo
06-29-2007, 08:28 AM
Haha, ok. Say what you want. All I can say is that I'm up for seeing this team develop before we start assigning our roles. Apparently, you seem to have all the answers already...

Look up the definition of a "Straw Man," ok? You are repeatedly attributing arguments to me that I'm not making. When I said Henderson "shouldn't" start, that's based on what we've seen so far. Obviously, if he improves to the point where he's better than those ahead of him, he should start. The same goes for Marty Pocius, Jordan Davidson and the team managers. So, you have reshaped the argument into something so obvious no one could possibly disagree with you. My point -- which, again, was crystal clear -- is that based on what we've seen from Henderson, he's not as good as the guys ahead of him, doesn't warrant the comparisons made yet and has a number of areas in which he must improve. Period.

SilkyJ
06-29-2007, 08:37 AM
Silky J, I hate to get off topic but could you share some of what the scouts thought of McRoberts and Nelson?

Up and down on both. They think Demarcus can be a 2 guard in the NBA if he improves his range. They like his body and athleticism (obviously) and think he is an underrated defender (although I never though of him as underrated in this category...). Some worries about his handle as well...

They liked Josh a lot, and realllllly like the fact that he can handle the rock. If he can develop any kind of jumper they think he can be an all-star. They were always talking about the euro-types who are 6'10"-7'0" (or higher) and play like guards. Thats the mold they see him in, and then add his athleticism off the ball - watchout (of course what happened on draft night seemed to contradict this, but thats what they said. I think if he develops a solid 10-15 footer he will be a steal in this draft) They also think he is an underrated defender.



I hope we aren't comparing a senior Dahntay to a freshman Henderson? Don't forget that Dahntay had the pleasure of practicing with the 2001 championship team and also played 2002 alongside Jason, Carlos and Dunleavy. Henderson hasn't had the chance to get that type of experience yet.

I was comparing them, but I was saying that I think Henderson will surpass Dahntay b/c of his mid-range game.

thebur
06-29-2007, 10:03 AM
If we look at Dahntay's first year in Royal Blue, and Gerald's, I think the trajectory is not that different as of yet. I think Gerald has a higher ceiling, and I definitely am looking forward to him really shining this year, but as of yet he is still behind Scheyer in the sophomore class.

Dahntay's Jr. Year PPG-11.2 RPG-4.2 APG-1.1 3Pt%-.231 FG%-.505 FT%-.725 MPG-28.9

Gerald's Fr. Year PPG-6.8 RPG-2.9 APG-1.1 3Pt%-.320 FG%-.451 FT%-.627 MPG-19.8

Now Dahntay was much older, stronger, and had experience at Rutgers before joining his buddy J-Will down in Durham. However, even if Gerald had a similar or slightly better career than Dahntay and stretched it over 4 years, I would be really happy with him as a Blue Devil.